Datto Talks Weapon Retirement for 26 Unrelenting Minutes
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- This is my weapon retirement manifesto. This is basically everything that I would ever want to say on the topic. It is extensive. It starts from the core of the issue. It covers arguments made by others. It is agonizing, relentless, non-stop talking for 26 and a half minutes. It is a video that makes me nervous to release. Here we go.
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Timestamps:
Why Don't People Want To Use New Guns: 4:40
What Do Other Games Do: 6:35
How Does Bungie Get People Interested: 8:28
How Does Bungie Get People Interested Pt 2: 10:09
The Main Counter-Arguments to Weapon Retirement: 11:39
Legendary Weapons Are Not Exotics/Unique: 12:41
Perks Are The Problem: 14:03
You Don't Want "Creative" Perks, You Want Good Perks: 16:16
Forced To Use Other Items: 20:40
Building Relationships With Guns: 22:17
No Vendor Refreshes: 22:53
The Loot Experience in Destiny is Not Special At All: 25:03
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"I don't care that a linear fusion rifle gets firing line"
Oh Datto, how little you knew
Gf: hey babe whatcha listing to?
Me: datto talking about weapon retirement for 26 minutes
I’m single now
Brain Eater probably left you because of your spelling XD
I took them same trade. No regrets.
are you sure you havent been single in the first place
it sounds like you've reached pinnacle power. change the ornament on your profile picture to Zavala with glowing red eyes to show that you've gone flawless in the Trials of Feelsbadman.
Lame as hell
Here's a disadvantage no one really talks about: it decreases the value of the DLCs. Imagine a player who joins the game in november 2020 and buys Forsaken or Shadowkeep only to find out that ALL the dlc specific gear (except exotics) is worthless. I bought Shadowkeep two days ago and I just realised this. The "lectern of enchantment" is a thing that gives mini quests and pursuits for gear that's going to be trash by the next season.
Yeah but you could say that about people who bought the base game now, the reason that’s not brought up is because without those dlc’s you can’t do certain activities, get certain exotics, and play certain raids
that is called do research b4 buying i didn't buy shadowkeep cus it offers nothing i want just got new season so your argument is just you not taking any effort to research into the game you buying and in fact it is actually a positive reason for sunsetting means new players 1 don't have to spend money on old content and new players don't have to feel like they will never be as strong as old player cus they can no longer acquire op weapons from tht old content.
p.s. no body talks about that disadvantage cus 1 it not a disadvantage and 2 you might be the only one who didn't do a 30s google search to see the pros or cons of buying an expansion especially if the idea of sunsetting was the one thing to influence your decision
@@gringgles2633 okay so this in your opinion caters to new players. AGAIN. Catering to casual and new players really helped destiny during year 1
@@aaronforsyth3486 its called balance you have to keep a game fresh ie they have the hard content and things like pinnacle gear that just playing casual becomes really difficult to acquire and if there is nothing new to obtain old players ( like non streamers people who don't make a living playing destiny 2) will eventually get bored if there is no reason to complete the content and they will go play another game and might not return. (ffs datto himself is looking into new games to play atm because of the expansion delay) and if your game only loses players and isn't appealing to newer players then your game dies . take monster hnter world for example when the iceborn expansion released they realised any new players that didn't ply b4 would want to do the iceborn content asap and join maybe the friend that played b4 so what they did is released a gear set and weapons with weighted stats that upgrade with generic monster materials so it would be really ez to upgrade as you whent thru base worlds story missions and you would be a comprable power to start iceborn without needing to do the hours of grinding top high level content to achive saem level og gear also al that old ger because of the new rank of difficult for old players became useless and had to be replace but nobody complaied cus that gave them a reason to hunt the new monsters for the new loot. imagine if mhw was like bungie and the first set you got was relaly good and throught the entire game you could just upgrade it to max power why would you bother fighting all the hard monsters? or if all the best gear was from world and not iceborn monsters why would make new players not want to play cus they would have to go farm gear just to farm old content that not a lot of old players would be farming. like i agree that catering ONLY to casuals is bad and that is why i think they should have better loot in the raids. if you play casually or are so socially inept to get in a group of 6 and beat a raid then you don't deserve the best gear. but there has to be a balance. and sun-setting brings that balance. idk it must just be because i play destiny cus it an rpg not cus it an fps that i have played rpgs forever and i find using the same 3-5 weapons over and over for ever reeeeeealy boring.
@@gringgles2633 im sorry you might have made some good points but I'm not reading that
>Be me coming back to this video in beyond light.
>OOF
I just came back after there most recent TWAB. Sunsetting is looking worse than we ever imagined.
@@kingodin5461 lol it's fine now. Don't be do dramatic
@@kingodin5461 It certainly has not aged well.
"Your honestly out of control and I love it. Hit me."
Datto who said you could record us during that?
seriously though, damn daddo
*you’re
@@betmynamespookedyou4665 Auto correct failed me, it usually does...
Saucy
@@betmynamespookedyou4665 *You are
Prestige Leviathan could literally have just put elements on the kinetics and people would have swarmed. To be fair, they could have given all Leviathan weapons "does more damage to cabal" too
I think maybe in year 1 this wouldve worked, but now? No way.
maybe but its still a damage perk and i feel bungie wants to move away from this
@@mrpotatoslayer2198 Curious, but how is an element a damage perk? That only functions when singes are active..and is very niche compared to current damage perks.
If you want kinetics with elements, get one with Osmosis. Problem solved.
Ngl I never thought abt that, and ur honestly right tho, bungie doesn't think sometimes and they need to listen to more ppl like unwith gud ideas lol
Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Powercreep on Destiny2. So let's get to taking out our guns out of vault, one by one. Rec-luse. From what I can gather it commands the Energy slots from Legendary Perks outside of Kinetic Mountain Top. It's well protected, but with the right dev team, we can punch through those vault spaces, take this beast out, and break their grip on Meta.
-the j3z 2020
Did anyone else read this in Zavala’s voice? Valus Ta’aurc anyone?
*lands on Mars*
Man this is fucking great
Ah, recluse is fine imo. I'm more worried about hard light and revoker on trials rn on console. Recluse is all I have to combat the no-recoil hard light on console.
I'm just waiting for complete armor sets to become universal ornaments so I can empty my vault
Lol, i was thinking this yesterday, whit armor 2.0 theres no reason to keep armor.
Get the raid armor, and thats it; mix and match.
Theyr adding that its called transmog
Your wish has been granted lmaoo
I just want the wrath of the machine style perks back on raid weapons.
They looked good,had good or decent combo perks and did extra damage against its correct fashion plus a 5% movement speed increase
I want them to do that to Curated rolls. But I don't want Raids to have fixed rolls like they did in D1.
Hell, I would even like if the Curated Rolls were exclusive to heroic mode, for example. Give people a reason to go do Heroic Mode, other than just because of the armor ornaments.
@@highfivemistertorque4537 Looked good? So you like the base weapons with a piece of SIVA smashed into the side of it?
Same
Kyragem um... Yeah, I did
datto's conclusion on weapon retirement: some people like it, some people don't
Some people like it because they are not seeing the future ramifications of this idea. Bungie does little to nothing as is. Like I've said in my post under this vid if weapon retirement happens they will not produce enough new weapons to matter. They make like what 24 a year tops rest are reskins. You will be just regrinding everything you already had and using inferior rolls. You will be stuck in gambit stuck in foundry trying to get vanguard weapons all over again for well nothing.
Bungie can not and will not deliver adequate content. Luke Smith thinks this is a short cut this actually makes even more work in the long run work they will not do.
@@joshjda well.. At this point bungie should be more concerned about the survival of the company and destiny franchise, than weapon retirement.
On thr path they're now, I'm not sure if y4 gona even be a thing.. And if it is, if they fk up again like they're doing now with SK and this empty y3 model, almost no one will come back.
To make the things worse, they don't have the f2p trumph card to play..
The game is in realy bad state now, after the last DC I'm not sure if the things gona change tbh! Even that Smith said they'll try to meet the middle ground..
At this point maybe the company should start thinking about switch head leaders, someone with fresh blood and new ideas because scarab lord atm is slowly destroying destiny.
As far as weapon retirement goes, if I Wana use a "turd" all the time I should use it. Manipulating the "turds" I use to create an artificial handicap or an artifical meta of 'turds" doesn't make any sense.. Make content, work and have passion for your freaking game! Be creative and try new things, stop thinking about making easy money, instead of making ppl enjoy your and loving your game!
If those fk heads do that, they gona get a lot of money..
My last thought about this video and this smurf! This guy is so full of bs that is almost disgusting tbh.. No to mention that this video looks more like a justification, than an analysis! Especialy after most ppl mix this guy bs with bungie doing bs.. Which I would be surprised tbh.
But hey.. While ppl keep listening to him, he's gona have power to be vocal and bungie will keep fucking up.
And don't get me wrong, some things he's right, but most things and critical things, he's not..
Just my 2 cents anyway..
Remember when Datto said "Theirs alot to do in Destiny and none of it matters"? He can apply that logic to this video
@@neoshell4941 Yep dude is totally full of shit. He's just mad that other streamers are making money off "his game". He wants to shut them out essentially. He is a sad selfish little nerd tbh.
joshjda what? Do you even read what you post? 😂😂😂
Is there a reason we aren’t getting factions and quartermasters back?
agreed. even with the “lack of participation” that bungie observes, still think it would be a great addition to players to grind more for which is always good
@@chaluparazz Some of the major points of this video revolve around bungie having a smaller team and not enough resources to do a lot of these things. There has to be some give and take. Doing it "just because" doesn't cut it when resources could go elsewhere in a more impactful manner.
21:48 I think the UA-camrs have some kind of influence in what people want, that's why, I think, is reason grinding for best role possible and spending hours upon hours to find that role which that UA-camr uses.
Yup. It seems every time a UA-camr uploads a video titled "NEW META!", "GET THIS GUN NOW!", "THIS GUN MAY BE THE NEW META?!" or any time of iteration, the gun is literally fucking everywhere within a couple days for me
But in the end of the day it's the player that chooses what to go for. If players want to fall in line like sheep then that's their responsibility.
yeah its pretty obvious that's what's happening
*roll
Or ppl could just have a mind of their own for a change instead of going for what some asshole in bumfuck Egypt says is the best gun
“Datto talking for 26 minutes? More like operation Easy Listening”
Get off this line, Dookoo
Lmao excuse me? No
“My name is Datto and you’re listening to NPR”
@@lamecatgames7214 underrated reply
@@callmeshaggy5166 I was too late😔
Everyone worried about weapon retirement and I’m just sitting here wanting to be able to put shaders on exotics & ornaments that change the appearance of a gun to look like another.
Qwazplop you want your exotics to look like legendaries to fit in with your armour set? Bro, i feel your pain
Right? That's a part of the issue for me. I like the look of some guns that don't perform well. I'd have a good time if I could take that hakke auto rifle look and put it on something new...
Qwerty Bastard I realised that after giving it some thought, exotics should be powerful but also aesthetically unique. But I don’t need to see a titan to know that he’s running one eyed mask
well they talk about weapon retirements then literally make season mods that require that seasons weapons in order to use them
This would be pretty smart.
Also I dont mind a hard grind for weapons. However, if my hard grind for a weapon ends in it being retired, then that actually encourages me to no longer chance the best weapons, because I now know..they will only be good for a little while, and therefore not worth the grind.
Everyone's fishing for god roll weapons with reload and damage perks, and I'm over here hunting down curated rolls just because I want 'em.
Totally with you! Keep fighting the true fight soldier.
Really hope they change the collections system to let us get curated guns back. I would nut instantly.
Still grinding forges for the curated rolls and the Rasmussen Tribute shader. Lol. Kill me.
Honestly, damage and reload perks are losing meaning nowadays. The more you realize how fun it is to have fun perks like Ambitious Assassin and Clown Cartridge, the more you start to move away from them. I have the new sidearm with Snapshot Sights and Full Auto. While yes, I could have it with Demolitionist + Surrounded, this is in my opinion more useful for a sidearm. Take it out quickly when your main weapon isn't loaded and blast a couple adds to give you a space to reload.
@@jetstreamlynn3156 Im so happy that clown cartrage is back. I got a full court CC nade launcher and its really good.
People crying about no reload combo perks on the seraph weapons while im enjoying it w threat detector
To the interesting perk point: Demolitionist and Overflow. These are the types of perks I want to see more of.
Are they still reload perks? Yes. But they're different and provoke more nuance in how one wants to play.
As for the fact that you want to regrind the "same gun" again after retirement... Well, guess we'll just have to disagree.
I'd rather see Bungie push the niche archetypes more, flesh them out with more types and rebalance the sandbox (for heavies in particular) to make weapons all feel competitive. Will there still be metas? Yes. But at least if I choose to use shotgun, lightweight pulse, and a rocket launcher I won't feel completely useless.
Quinn Calvert me with nightshade ikelos shotgun and bellowing giant
@@TakeTheFalll Back in year one of destiny that would have been a god tier load out.
On top of weapon retirement, they should straight retire some perks and perk combinations. They definitely have introduced interesting builds and perks, like the warmind cells.
That's the type of perks bungie would put on a ritual weapon
Overflow i think is underrated. People want reload perks on weapons but somehow they don't want overflow. Take a look at Curated Spare Ratios for example, Overflow and explosive payload. I think literally what's wrong with that? But people are calling that the worst curated hand cannon. Is not like rapid hit and kill clip will make you the best player ever. And unless you are a sweating try hard god tier player or below average then I promise you won't notice much different between the two rolls in both PVE and PVP when you playing the game right.
Honestly, a major point I feel that you completely overlooked is the cosmetic aspect of our legendary weapons. For instance, I may have a really nice Outlaw/Kill Clip Pulse from a recent season, yet still find myself gravitating toward a pulse rifle with the very same roll, from 3 or 4 seasons ago, simply because I love the *look* --the design style of that earlier weapon. In a game where cosmetic attunement is something we focus a massive amount of our time on, I can unequivocally say that the way a weapon looks as it rests in your character's hands (in an FPS, no less) certainly affects your experience as you play. If a weapon has a great roll, but it's ugly as sin, you may tire of using it pretty quickly, and that "fun" factor is negatively affected, albeit maybe to a lesser degree. But still, it plays a part in overall enjoyment. The season of Dawn weapons, in my opinion, are some of the best weapon designs that Bungie's given us in a long time. And I'm of the mind that, since I love those designs, I'd like to keep using my uniquely-rolled gear from that season, without the looming knowledge that they'll eventually be useless in harder activities. Those weapons my have been "easier" to grind than most seasons, but to get the rolls I wanted to experiment with still took *scores* of hours, since Bungie isn't known for creating friendly RNG. I don't want to continue repeating that process, always knowing that gear has an expiration date. That doesn't scream "fun." It groans "waste of time." Regardless, I feel like you and I will simply have to take the "agree to disagree" route, because arbitrarily forcing players to move on from gear they love, does indeed go against the "play the way you want" motto that Bungie always stood by. By definition, that's just objectively true. They should either stand by the saying, or make it clear that the ideology comes with some major, contradictory "but's".
This is pretty much exactly it. Have I built up an arsenal of weapons I absolutely love over the many months since Forsaken? Absolutely! Will I use some of those until the end of this game? Probably! Does it stop me from grinding for good rolls on new weapons introduced every new season? Absolutely not! Take the Seraph weapons, they look and feel quite awesome, so I ground for them, and they're quite awesome! I find it somewhat ridiculous that it somehow matters if we don't keep using new weapons as long as we have our fun with them for a while.
Ultimately I'm still playing the game to get them if there are ways to grind which aren't annoying, and isn't that what matters in the end? I genuinely feel like people overlook the fact that a lot of people will grind just for the sake of it, just to try out the new weapons.
Agree with this actually. Cool insight
Yeah, because he ignored all the actual points in this video to make kids think weapon retirement isn’t actually an awful idea
100%! You literally took the words right out'a my mouth! The cosmetic aspect is a huge part of the game for me. In fact aside from Destiny being something to do with my friends, it's the MAIN thing. It's why I main a Hunter. It's why Ace of Spades is my favorite gun. It's why I grind for certain things and ignore others. For me, it's all about what draws my eye, and what sparks emotion in me. There are weapons I don't use for the very reason you brought up... they fugly. lol So for me, and others, throwing more powerful shit at us and making our old fav guns irrelevant, uh... yeah, why wouldn't we be pissed off??? I'll grind for cosmetics till the end of time, I'll grind for something I want if I get to KEEP it, but grinding for something that one day, even if it's a whole year away, will not be useful??? Uh, no thanks. This whole thing is an issue any MMO-esque or ongoing content type game suffers from... Bungie just is floundering imo where other games have figured it out (Fortnite for example, and I'm talking about both modes, or FFXIV, etc). I understand they are in a pickle, and they're just doing their best trying to please a wide variety of types of players, which makes their job more difficult. However, that doesn't make me less upset about sunsetting.
So if you want to retire weapons to force new weapons to be “worthwhile” in high end activities, why not bring back raid perks. It makes new loot worthwhile in new high end activities, even if old loot remains top tier in low level activities. I like chasing new loot that’s powerful in new activities, but I also like keeping my old loot.
All that said, I’m of the crowd that much preferred age of triumph era D1 to be the best time in the destiny universe. And we had so many load out options for all the different raids, because of the raid perks.
Side note: I’d rather they bring d1 to pc than make d3 this fall lol
A D1 PC port would honestly be great, at least there's no shortage of content there
They aren't making d3? They said this many times lmao
Susjsj Yuwuwuuwu d3, comet expansion, etc. any of the above. clearly, that went over your head.
The issue with that is that if a raid perk took up a regular perk slot, then they would be just worse in every other activity, which seems counter-intuitive. You would be doing the raid to get weapons that would help you in the raid, and the weapons are the main reason that people do the raid.
Benjamin Marson did you play d1? They didn’t replace main perks, they were tertiary. Fatebringer had outlaw, firefly and Oracle disruptor, genesis chain had focused firefly, focused fire, and whirlwinds curse (fallen damage), etc. There were many good ones, from all raids. best of all, none of these perks effect their precious pvp, so they wouldn’t need to be nerfed like everything else in existence.
The problem i have with weapon retirement is that I have seen no evidence that Bungie have enough resources/are willing to use them to make enough weapons every season to make for those that will be lost in retirement. If I could somehow now that once my Austringer is retired that I can get another 140 with outlaw/rampage, then it won't be the end of the world. But if I can't, then I'm unable to use the weapon I want to use in the current endgame content. And if I CAN find a replacement, all I'm really doing is regrinding a weapon I essentially already had. Therefore taking my time away from doing the content I WANT to do, by forcing me to grind for something I already HAD.
I think Bungie would be much better off spending their time developing new exciting perks like Vorpal Weapon, Firing Line, 1-2 Punch, etc. These allow for new combinations to exist and for new metas to form without removing the choices that players have. The meta in this game has changed in every major expansion, and now more than ever with artifact mods we are forced into certain loadouts in endgame content like Master Nightfalls to be as efficient as possible. Everything that allows players to have more options is good imo, even if I won't always use them all.
Another thing I see a lot is a comparison to MMOs, but I don't think that's entirely fair either. In MMOs, weapons are essentially stat-sticks and do not change you play-style or the feel of the game anywhere near as much as they do in Destiny. Let alone the fact that all those MMOs have transmog and some allow you to just name weapons as well.
I do not trust Bungie to do weapon retirement in a way that will satisfy me and others in the community, and that's why I'm against it. If you want to retire legendaries no matter what fine, but quest weapons and exotics should be exempt then IMO.
It doesn't have to happen every season dude. Just more than once every 3 years is all anyone s hoping for
It's clear to almost everyone that Bungie will basically release the same weapons over and over again, but now you'll be forced to grind them out every refresh. That isn't fun or creative it's just fake new weapons.
You mad bro
But weapon retirement shouldn't mean we have to re grind for the same rolls. They should just continue to introduce more perks. Good perks.
@@LSB44446 lol k but why use any new perks when the best perks already exist, honestly the whole reload perk and damage perk combo is boring and should be left behind by weapon retirement
After watching the video I am honestly curious what would come out of a debate between you and Cammycakes on this topic. Since you both give solid arguments and are on the opposing sides of the spectrum.
Also, about weapons being thrown at us so much, I suspect it is because of the retirement, Bungie wants us to get the weapons we desire early in their lifecycle. If they make things rare or not easy to farm people won't be able to get them in the 9 months they are relevant, thus just creating frustration and many upset people.
#TeamCammyCakes
Datto is a PvE content creator, Cammy is a PvP content creator. Weapon balance has usually worked completely differently in these different modes, so it is not a surprise that they approach the situation in a different way.
Another specific detail about Cammy is also that he purposefully tries using weird and "off-meta" loadouts constantly, since that is what he enjoys. Constantly utilizing those would become a lot harder with item retirement/resets.
@@Lexustio Well yea, and that's why I think it'd be interesting to see the opinions clash since they see it from such different angles.
And the weird and off meta loudouts are because he can think past revoker and hardlight, which sadly most of the community can't. Even more so in PvE, the way I see people asking for weapon retirement from a PvE side is just wanting to be forced to grind for new weapons. And that's the thing, it won't be all it's made out to be. No grinding for those cool new weapons revitalizing the game. It'll be grind out a good enough weapon with a reload and damage perk and then sit with it 9 to 12 months and complain how loot is boring again after a while.
Lexustio It really wouldn’t at all though??? He plays PvP and the only place where power matters is in Trials and in Iron Banner. He can goof off with off meta load-outs literally everywhere else in PvP with or without weapon retirement.
@@smoltoaster But Trials matters massively. It's the pinnacle of pvp. That's where you'd want your weapons to matter.
take for example he Forsaken Antiope-D. You can get that from the gunsmith. it took him 8 month to get the roll he wanted. Now with weapon retirement that'd be mean he spent 8 months of time trying to get it and then he may only use it for 1 month in trials and then he'd just have to abandon it.
I would love the system they had in D1 where you had to use the weapon in order to get the perks unlocked, be implemented back
Catalysts! At least for exotics
If only we had a permanent kill tracker on all weapons. Instead of them needing to be masterworked at lvl 6.
Bungie literally gave themselves great solution to weapon retirement - systems like Seraph Weapons. Had the weapons themselves be decent this would be a game changer for ppl, giving builds more depth.
I honestly feel that weapons from season X should do extra dmg in activities from season X, that would be a great incentive without making old weapon non viable also not having power creep. With light level retirement Weapons from season X1 would be alright in X2 but trash in X3, but with weapons having extra dmg in seasons they are from would make weapon from X1 viable both in X2 and X3 and more forward but not being optimal.
Whilst I do agree with that, that Seraph weapons are a pretty good way to work around the "Reload + Damage perk" thing, is it really possible to keep making variations and new ideas that aren't just "reload + damage" perks? Sure, Seraphs are cool, but can they come up with, say, 6 more gimmicks to fill out the rest of the Seasons for D2? And if they can, will those gimmicks just invalidate the previous stuff by being better?
A lot of the times when I hear the "Make better/good creative perks" idea I think "Ok, but, like, how? Could you give me an example? Could you give me 6? Could you make all 6 of them unique and unlike each other? Could you make them all unique and powerful? etc."
Obviously "Hah you can't come up with a cool idea on the spot" isn't a great argument, but like, still. If I gave you a week, do you think you could come up with an idea? What if that idea doesn't work within the scope of the game because it's just not feasible to program? You get the idea.
@@lumina3257 My main point stays as give weapons buff for the content they are from to not power creep everything. Your first paragraph is literally nothing different than retiring weapons, new things are stronger than previous ones, but instead stronger by light cap they have stronger perks.
Systems like Seraph weapons would be very welcome as weapons themselves should be the same (or slightly worse) as other weapons, but you'd be able to sacrifice armor mods to deepen the build. This is WAY different than giving weapons new perks as giving weapons new perks is not giving builds more depth. With weapon perks you just swap weapons, with Seraph-like systems you change your armor with it.
I've never been a fan of giving weapons new perks since best perks are dmg and reload and this will not change so new perks are meaningless unless they are stronger but that would bring more power creep. But even tho i'm not a fan of giving weapons new perks i'm also not a fan of retiring weapons. I play way more than i should be and every season i go for new weapons, i try all of them and farm for my god rolls on the weapons i like (like perfect paradox, line in the sand, martyr's retribution and last hope from last season, Autos, fusions and pulses are not my thing so i ignored them. Sniper and Rocket launcher werent worth to grind as i've already spent way too much time there) and even tho i play so much i dont suffer from "nothing to chase" but i see the problem that is growing slowly to be a real one in the near future.
Agreed. Also, releasing new weapons with intrinsic champion mods. Release a new raid 150rpm hand cannon with, say, built in unstoppable rounds.
Create new perks that do have more RPG effects. Burn, stasis, poison, some other status effects. More support perks like healing, increased damage under certain circumstances (double damage against burning targets), reduced cooldowns, etc.
Create a 2nd mod slot that add specific effects. Void damage suppresses. Solar burns. Arc creates an AOE.
If I could get a new 150 hand cannon with unstoppable rounds baked in and could heal and do increased damage against burning enemies, and could use a new mod that burns enemies or generate Warmind cells or instantly charge me with light...then shit, that could "retire" me using Spare Rations.
@@jerryballstein That's ultimate power creep you're talking about. What would be the gun after the one you described? Mini nuke? then what after that? death ray? They need to get creative, deepen the builds. Nobody sane asks for all in one ultimate tool, but make guns different than each other. The only real difference between all the legendary hand cannons is rpm and aim assist and that's the problem, they are way too similar so ppl will naturally pick the best one.
When I eventually got it, the vex mythoclast was my year 1 memory. God did I melt in pvp and violate in PvE, the glory days.
As it should be. But a huge problem in many games is the developers want you to be weak because they are incapable of creating challenge unless you have one arm tied behind your back. I miss year 1 d1. It was fun.
You mean for a few weeks before it was killed right lol
shadowsintox9 Yes, there must definitely be one weapon that absolutely stomps out all other weapons. That’s definitely how it should be.
@@thelouster5815 not really what I meant when I said that. Poor wording on my part. I meant how he clearly had a lot of fun with that weapon cause it was good. There were a lot of good weapons in d1. They felt powerful. I want that back.
Like it used to be you burn through everything but hard mode raids and nightfall. But even in those 2 you still felt strong, you just had to be careful cause you could get one shot or quickly killed if you played stupidly.
In d2 you can still get murdered but you dont feel powerful. I dont care much about the balancing for pvp. It used to be fun as hell back in year 1 before trails when people would actually run around. Soon as trails started the majority of people became camping bitches which ruined pvp.
Even now it's still slow and boring kinda. People ride each others dicks. It's pretty lame.
But theres alot that d2 needs. Such as being able to fully customize your Class perks, not be forced to one perk set.
Its developers just forcing ppl to play how they want because if the player has freedom they are incapable of making a challenge.
For weapon retirement, I would like to have a "shelf", maybe in the tribute hall. When the weapon can no longer be infused, but it is masterworked (with big number) and has good rolls, I can put it on a "display shelf" and when/if that weapon is reintroduced into the game in a future season I can go get mine off my shelf. This also adds to the "you had to be there" as day 1 of the season I can run around with it with an end of season number, or just simply day 1 you have your god roll perks. The caveat would be that since it is back in the loot pool that I can infuse it again. This would relieve vault problems as it would not be taking up a vault spot from current farming. Basically just give us a separate vault (or a quest to open it) where it will not let you put "current" items in it, you are only allowed to put non-infusable items in it. Would not fix current vault space, but over time it would help. Naming wise that would be more of a vault and in the tower would be more of a storage locker, but calling it a "display shelf" since it is like where you would put trophies, which these weapons would be. Or put it somewhere in the tower (maybe with Ada) and so people can look at other peoples shelves with masterwork numbers listed above items. Doing it in the tower as a public space would make the "collecting" part of D2 more valuable than just checking off the box, just like the glow from nightfall high score/flawless trials (to an extent at least).
I really like the MTG analogy. I love playing legacy, but sometimes I want to play standard and not have to worry about force of will when I try to dark ritual or lions eye diamond (or play other formats too). Activities (or modes) where you are allowed to use stuff from only current season, 2 seasons, 5 seasons, ANYTHING (vintage), would be great. You can't have every combination of season lengths or you might sit in queue and never find a match if you happen to be going for the wrong length. I think the following would be good additions of modes for activities with the MTG parallel in parentheses:
*ALL (eternal formats) - old and new gear combined to make allowed "game breaking combo" could fit here
*Forsaken and forward ("modern")
*current year ("standard"...rolling out by season instead of year would be more consistent, so current season and last 3?)
These 2 could be added, but not sure how well people would like first or how hard second would be on the technical side:
*current season
*Draft/random ("cube"-ish) - you load into the activity and instead of using your gear you have been given a random set (weapons or weapons and armor). YOU DO NOT GET TO KEEP IT, nor can you dismantle/infuse. Could be everyone gets different set, the same set or same types like all get pulse, shotgun, and bow. Many ways this could be great or horrible depending on how they implement it (and choose the pool of options). Maybe even your class and super are random, could be a fun spin. Done right, I think it could be a fun "chaos mode".
The big power level question with the modes would be if a) the activity power cap, in the same way as contest mode worked during day 1 raid, is set at the highest that the lowest/oldest gear could be, or b) the activity does not scale based on the mode which makes gear choice a more important consideration as power would be part of the factor along with stats and perks.
13:20 The Legendary Shotgun Immobius in D1 had a unique perk that gave it infinite ammo whilst on a Ward of Dawn. It is an weird concept of a unique weapon, barely useful for anybody, but it was a weird kind of unique that I liked. It was my favourite perk of D1, now I wish they would bring back....
Yeah I forgot about that one. I also liked having the class specific weapons.
Oh man, I'm rewatching this in light of current events and some of the forum arguments against weapon retirement are things Datto mentioned, word for word, here.
With Datto’s new merch line, he’ll be the next one to retire soon, aside from Destiny’s weapons. 😏
Badum tss
this is kinda like how in old call of duty games, everyone would pick either the perk that gave them more health or more damage. Those perks ended up removed or changed in subsequent titles because they were bad for the game as a whole.
I'm having OMA flashbacks.
Datto, you doubted that the sunsetting problem could curbed by Bungie making unique loot rather than powerful loot but that is pretty much exactly what Bungie is doing right now. Rather than making new loot explicitly more powerful than old loot they make new loot with different perks that makes certain roll combinations work better with specific builds.
To be fair, builds didn't REALLY exist back then. Now buildcrafting is an actual thing this way of reducing power creep works
Looking back at Datto's "How to get Exotics" it would day, or weeks, to grind out a specific weapon - quests/missions/kills.
It was more like a treasure or scavenger hunt. You were invested more in the journey than the destination.
Now, you get an exotic cypher from Xur, and grind that out to finally purchase the same exotics.
It feels more empty. Like just buying something from Eververse with silver.
Then, 90% of those exotics you throw in the vault (Which should just be called The attic, because once it's in there it just collects dust...) You play with your trusty familiar weapons, and try out a couple of seasonal weapons.
I'd love to see raid weapons out of this retirement thing. That would finally make them special compared to other legendaries.
except steamers don't care about pve
Jiaming Li Dunno what you’ve been watching but the biggest d2 streamers are PvE mains - Gladd Datto Sweat
@@joshsamper8364 Jiaming Li is right, steamers don't care about pve but streamers do.
This is a very good way to make raid loot more appealing than standard legendaries without making them op. Good idea
Datto truly has played to much destiny, applying FOMO to his merch sales strategy.
10/10 would consider buying again.
Could we have very specific perk that only activate when multiple conditions are met.Like for the whisper of the worm heroic mission- when under 1/3 of health and only 1 bullet with 1 boss left the critical hit damage is tripled,but it’d only work on specific missions/planets.Seems like having to have a weapon to complete the heroic version to get a pinicle weapon that’s used in another mission seems fun as it would force people into new playstyles/conditions
this is why my favorite memories of destiny are still from the vault of glass era. getting gjallarhorn for the first time and the vex mythoclast, both from atheon on different occasions was just such an amazing feeling. seeing those two guns pop up on the side of the screen and bragging to my friends was just TOO good. destiny doesnt feel like that anymore.
I'm starting to click on your videos just to see how you're going stretch for a segue to guide us your shop. Well played.
Yes, but will you use them?
hes like the UA-camr LegalEagle, Finds the best segue's into his Sponsor/Merch.
Weapon retirement seems like it's a full time vs part time player thing. Full time players feel tired of seeing the same loot or using the same guns over and over again but more casual players either have no opinion on this or just want to use their favorite guns. I personally have thousands of kills on my service revolver and ikelos sniper and I'd hate being unable to use them in iron banner or trials.
Mecha Zard RNG is such a huge factor, that’s why it’s irritating.
@@Publano rng has gone out the window more and more with each passing season though, it's gotten so easy. That was true in the past but it think it wouldn't be nearly as hard to get a good weapon in the future
yeah, working 8h a day + 4h commute i really dont feel like grinding like a madman every season
I understand the hardcore´s view, but i like the game being daddy friendly hahah
Man, I took a break after Garden of Salvation and everything I hear since then does not make me want to come back.
Not gonna grind quest weapons or rituals if it's gonna be pointless in a few months. I'm sure my time can be better spent
didn't he address that in the video?
@@aleisnotreal to create memories?
CreationsVibration
A year not a few months.
@@nicholasn.2883months year, regardless I'll just use whatever drops, everything kills things.
If you don’t want to keep them just dismantle them and get free masterwork cores (not like those are already being fed to us like we’re little kids via guardian games)
more like Datto finds the effects plugins in his daw
Endgame content should reward best loot in my opinion. I miss when raid loot was sought out because it was top tier. Same concept as endgame activities being the way to get max power (for the 10 point difference).
D1 bro you're talking about D1
I miss when raid loot was actually beneficial to the raid. There as never been a gun quite like Chaos Dogma~ from the Wrath of the Machine raid. That thing could fire for days if you got crits, and the end boss had HUGE crits. Now they’re all random rolls. This is why we need weapon retirement.
You make no sense
I miss trying to get 3 versions of a weapon that you love, one of each element.
I feel that if you can't raid, tough.
Remember when new weapons used to be cool because we were also chasing armor that looked cool as well as cool cosmetics? *cough cough, Destiny 1*
why chase cosmetic when they can sell it to us?
It also had sunsetting
@@dekdenfor9770 because it’s fun dumb fuck
Heres where I stand.
- Make all stats visible (AA, Accuracy, recoil direction, ect)
- Make Transmogging a full blown thing (cosmetic wise. Let me take the model of one thing and put it on a similar thing. Hammerhead = MG, Scholar = Scout, ect)
- Adjust how stats work similar to how they have slowly been since launch. I want to gain actual sprint speed and slide distance from mobility but maybe this come at a cost to resilience or recovery.
- remove the general and specific mod slots in favor of just 3-4 mod slots with the same pool. If I just want to buff my stats than let me, if I want to focus on a grenade/melee combo--- *Then let me*
Retire weapons, but let players show off they're past loot. I shouldn't need to re-earn my armor or weapons when I could just throw their model on a newer gun that has better power//stats//perks. People wouldn't ask for their old legendaries back if they can just put the models on their new guns. This would also fix old content to some extent without bungie needing to go back to pull another age of triumph (though to be honest all raids should be considered end game with the newest raid just rewarding slightly better gear stat//power wise)
@@speedyvena it's not like any of it would matter. I mean D1 retired and reissued guns from Y1. It cleared the loot pool for new stuff and gave some old classics back. With this they can at least take their Ringing nail and put its model on the new autorifle from season 12. Armor is already confirmed to be getting Transmogging so that too can help alleviate problems. People are just overreacting
The only issue that I would see with universal transmog would be exotics and pinnacles (You know, recluse, revoker, and mountaintop tier weapons) because of the unique ways that they can impact the battlefield. Well, that and what it would mean for literally all shotguns, smgs, and sidearms (the weapons that have the biggest desire for range).
Obviously they weren't going to add exotics to any form of universal transmog, because you do genuinely need to see that this dude is wearing saint-14's helmet inside of his bubble, you're going to be blinded when you step in. Or this dude is carrying around wardcliff coil and not just some random legendary launcher. But this should also be extended to any new pinnacle-tier weapons they add, as you shouldn't have to memorize which one of their 3 titans is using Revoker if you manage to get a good look at the sniper they're hardscoping with.
Then there's the issue that cosmetics have with weapon range. Did you know that if you equip The Panama Ravine ornament on The Chaperone, you get about an extra meter of range over the default appearance? This is because, for some bloody reason, barrel length translates to falloff distance. Chances are, this is because of the round being spawned at the end of the barrel or Bungie actually made range stat more impactful on weapons with longer barrels. What's annoying is that they made *modified* appearance affect the falloff. So that would have to be fixed before universal weapon transmog.
@@GeassX notice how universal ornaments don't work on gambit prime armor and exotics. that be the same here. We're already getting armor Transmogging soon from Bungies own words so being able to do the same with weapons wouldn't be too bad.
Also Panama ravine adds so little. Did you really do what Fallout said not to? Did you skim over the information and over exaggerate?
Also to give a great example here is the service revolver, better devils, and living memory, all Identical models, all different archetypes.
Also barrel length was shown to have non noticeable effects on other guns like HC's as the longest HC (Midnight coup) had no difference in range compared to a spare rations and that was pre nerf that nerfed all HC damage ranges and fall off.
The effects of barrel length are no minimal that they dont have any serious effects on most weapon types (especially swords; no shit am I right)
The only gun class that has this issue is shotguns and again, they're inconsistent and though barrel length has some effect, it's so minor, it damn near negligible.
The majority of people using this would be using smaller gun models that take less screen real estate as things like dire promise get more use than things like jack queen king because of its model size (a major reason Omolon HCs have been neglected since D1 even when meta)
I think that when it comes to raids, they should make them have an intrinsic perk that will only benefit them in the raid, and give them better versions of the damage perks. Such having rampage do up to 66% damage, but weapons you get from easier content just have the normal rampage capped at 33%. The concept of intrinsic perks could also apply to every activity in the game.
That requires effort and they won't do that. You think that studio of how many hundreds of devs haven't suggested raid only perks please. Datto said weapon retirement and Luke smith jumped on the idea like he would a bitch in heat. They get to recycle everything now. He was whining about auto dismantling fucking blues because the weapons team puts so much hard work into them. Pfffft bullshit.
They did this in D1 with the raid armors. Wearing it would give you buffs for the specific mechanics in that raid and it was really cool because it gave you a reason to get that set.
@@Vigil_ Yep and it isn't in d2 why? Laziness. The vast majority of all the "new" perks are just renamed Destiny 1 perks.
@Planet DarkInch You're only describing more power creep. After you get said weapons, the only way to get players to use new ones is make weapons with even MORE power. Power. Creep. Is. Not. Good.
@@joshjda They have mods that give you stuff like more heavy drops when you're in the Leviathan. It isn't specific to the Leviathan armor, so not entirely like what you guys are talking about, but it's the same thing.
Looking back on D1 and the weapons I had back then, I love how nostalgic it is. I got an Epitaph sniper, my first ever legendary. I always kept it in my vault, and to open my vault and see it sitting there, it was like a trophy hanging in my room. I think that’s the feel we should get.
I still have my og legendarys. Up for anything and my og ldr
bushgirllives.link/xrF6afNLh8oh
Yeah, guns retired instead of being nerfed into nothingness. Imagine if Whisper of the Worm was allowed to stay powerful, and just phased out due to level. There would be a lot more fondness for the Whisper of the Worm, and it's mission, if the story didn't end with "then bungie nerfed it". Nerfing something makes is a shadow of it's former self, retirement freezes it in time.
Well i think legendaries stoped being special after taking king so its not a d2 only thing
Yordano Levy I think that may just be because the Taken King raid weapons sucked pretty bad. There were definitely some dope legendaries post Taken King, being the Wrath of the Machine weapons and a bunch of Iron Banner and Vendor refreshed weapons.
Before I start I want to say I absolutely love the world they’ve created and have spent enormous amounts of time enjoying this game. In my opinion The problem is upgrades are pigeonholed into linear “more level or damage is better”. It’s a symptom of classes having little to no variability as much as weapon perks being more or less the same. If we instead took a page out of other RPGs(like diablo) and had an ability where enemies took more damage from a specific element or enemies a certain distance range take more damage as a passive. Ex. Enemies further than 30 meters Ex.2 grenade gives damage buff to arc for 5 seconds. You could then change items to have perks that are more based on play style or build strategy. Ex. Scout rifle with a perk of standing still gives damage buff while moving gives equal nerf, Or opposite for an smg.Things that feel good when played a certain way but, aren’t one size fits all. There are so many examples from other rpgs that they don’t have to reinvent the wheel to get an engaging experience in a unique way. While if we look at the shooter aspect, games like CoD allow you to change scopes, magazine size and grips all with tradeoffs. It feels like they ended up with a rpg with no meaningful class choices and a shooter that lacks weapon customization. This is probably from the constant complaining from us the community and the constant changes happening within their company. I can’t imagine the direction struggle that comes from having Activision over the shoulder and then running their own show all while the community is this vocal. Whatever happens, this game will go down as one of my favorites of all time and I wish it and bungie nothing but longevity and success.
I loved how the skeleton key worked in Destiny 1 year 3 because it gave the strikes more life, in a way. Me and my friend would always try to get a good Imago Loop and I would like to see something like the skeleton key system return for strikes because it makes the strikes seem more fun. If not for strikes, it would entice people into playing higher difficulty Nightfall Ordeals.
So, with me Datto, when I First saw the weapon retirement, I saw the benefit of it as well as the downside, but I actually did something unexpected, I went into Destiny 1 to look at all of my old Favourite Guns from that Game, Surprisingly very few of them had Damage Perk, Reload Perk Stacked together, I then asked myself why is that, well I figured it out more, when Bungie introduced Mods 2.0 they made most of the Best Perks from D1 into Mods that can then be stacked on top of Damage Reload Stack, which I realized was the actual problem with Perks in D2 all of the Old Chase Perks from D1 became Mods, Counterbalance Stock is just Counterbalance from D1 a perk that was very strong and very good on a bunch of guns is now a Mod that I can just put onto a Rampage, Outlaw Stack now. I think that may be the Crack in the Dam that Started this whole Issue where loot became boring.
Damn I never thought about it until now, but for real now that I’m looking back most of the perks which I was going after was for accuracy. Damage was important, but if I couldn’t hit things it didn’t matter. Like icarus grip being a mod has now made it so there’s one less perk to want to go after in snipers. Damn, maybe we won’t be able to see actually interesting loot until mods go through another rework because until then damage really is the only thing we need to account for because everything else is just in mods.
Maybe Bungie should just scrap mods and put them all back into perks. I can imagine that would drastically change the way we chase rolls and probably add more variety into what we want in guns.
@@ThiccInk Part of the reason people go for the damage mods is because they feel so damn necessary in the grind or endgame to make things less painful. When your fighting enemies 10 power levels higher than you its not fun to have to empty two clips into a red-bar mob to kill it. The damage perks become necessary because otherwise at times some guns just do piss poor damage. This is especially prevalent with primaries where the damage mods become an extremely coveted perk: a lot of people just don't use legendary primaries unless they have some kind of a damage buff ability.
I would be ok with them getting rid weapon mods and turning things like icarus, freehand, and counterbalance into perks. It might be too big of a change for a yearly update though, especially the way they have instituted perks like anti-barrier and overload into the artifact.
@Greg Frost I think this is an interesting point, but the fact that there is a definitive "God Roll" is part of what the problem is. There needs to be less of a gap in what is good and what isn't and more of a variety. Otherwise it doesn't matter how many cool features you put on a weapon if everyone is still going to aim for the same thing.
"God Roll" very quickly translates to "The only real roll" when it comes to weapons. Especially when there is a large resource investment when it comes to upgrading them. Nobody is going to want to plug 15+ enchancement cores into a weapon thats "sort of" good.
Weapons need to be more unique but not built around a single perk. Whether or not its a god roll or has a god-tier skill shouldn't be the determining factor on if its usable or not.
Wow, i've never thought about it like that before. The Hidden hand perk is now targeting adjuster. Field scout, clown cartridge, and other magazine perks were turned into the backup mag mod.
I agree on ther necessity of weapon retirement, but the game they're retiring from doesn't currently feel like it's ready for that. Despite that the current list of Legendary and soon Grand Master difficulty content is arguably the hardest repeatable material they've ever made. And nothing about the current crop of new weapons makes me think I could rely on them to get me through that content.
So with Bungie boasting harder content while releasing objectively worse weapons in the CURRENT sandbox which was *just radically updated* it reduces confidence in the ability of Bungie to produce a whole new sandbox of desirable weapons without screwing up the parts people already enjoy.
I also feel concern about the abundance of cash shop cosmetics for the weapons we can all reasonably expect to be retired. There have been 3 Recluse skins released for dust or silver since Shadowkeep launched. This feels a lot like the armor glow scenario all over again.
Yeah they have to make that solstice armor into ornaments. I grinded out all 3 and bought 2 of the 3 glows from eververse just for the armor to become completely irrelevant a month later. Plus its some of the coolest armor in the game
Same damn man like I'd be fine with weapon retirement if the last couple of seasons had more then like 7 weapons that aren't just the same fusion I've always had just reskined.
I have no confidence in the future weapons
Like this season they said the could either bring back old trials weapons or give us ritual weapons then they just made a twab recently saying they are making 1 ritual weapon for the next season like damn of you can't make new weapons in the first place why makes you think you can put a expiration date on the old ones
We're getting a limited pool of new weapons every season
Like of you make only a handful of weapons in a season they better be good
Because it's either quantity or quality
And we aren't getting either.
3 years of severe powercreep later, can we admit that maybe sunsetting weapons wasn't the worst idea? Sure, we did end up farming for very similar or sometimes exactly the same weapons that we used to have, but how many of those old guns would still even be good in the current meta? Without a way to cycle weapons out, Bungie has had to consistently up the power of guns for the last 3 years until we've hit a point where new guns are having to drop with meta defining perks just to get anybody to even look at them. Everytime a new season drops, I scroll through light gg, take a mental note of ~3 guns that might be good, and immediately write off the rest of the new weapons because they'll just be worse than what I already have.
I'm not saying sunsetting is the perfect solution, I understand why it sucks. But if its the only way to make loot actually exciting in this game again, then its worth it.
There are plenty of more ways to make loot exciting, take subclass synergy perks like voltshot and incandescent, they make most guns that came before look silly. We're a week away from into the light right now and--granted, when you made this comment we didn't know this yet--but we're getting some of the most powerful weapons of all time, most of them being weapons that are currently sunset. In a looter shooter, it's the developer's job to make loot interesting, not to force us to change. Forcing the players to make a decision rather than making them excited to make that decision is bad game design.
Edit: and about power creep, of course we don't want power creep to get out of hand like OG mountaintop and recluse, but there are 2 things to keep in mind: they could have just balanced them, like they are now. We've seen almost every pinnacle perk return on random rolled weapons, but in a worse state then they released. That's a good thing, that's what they're supposed to do. Secondly, power creep to some degree is inevitable, it's a looter shooter, if the loot isn't upping the ante at least a little bit then I don't want it. I understand where you're coming from but sunsetting is just not the best way to go about it since it makes the game less fun and artificially creates incentive.
I'm down for weapon retirement, what I'm not down for is armor retirement.
I can sorta understand both viewpoints but honestly I don't get invested in my gear even if they're god rolls. Sunsetting is probably the way to go for a healthy sandbox even if people totally obsessed with their gear will resist at the begining.
tl;dw: Bungie has designed themselves into a corner
Bungie needs to make the game reward the hardcore, casuals play anything.
This comment is pretty missleading, they did it because people asked for more power for less work ex; nf requiers a long quest that ends with you in legend comp. recluse only requires you to reach fabled and the latter is the best gun in the game
Tume I here’s the thing there are more casuals then hardcore players so it becomes a situation where it’s like the needs of the many versus the needs of the few. People would just stop playing if all the good stuff is behind raids or whatever and those people can’t raid.
@@floppypilot4516 yeah but isn't that how looters supposed to work?
Makis rwssos Yeah and bungie is gonna have to make big changes to the loot if they want to see improvements like actually putting good loot behind hard activities and not caring what the less skilled people complain about
"What the hell Bungie, took me 87 years to get Recluse and now you're nerfing it, this game sucks, big fan though, love the game, still gonna play it."
- r/DestinyTheGame
Sanji nope, it’s 100% r/destinythegame
Sanji r/destinycirclejerk is just the more memed version of r/DestinyTheGame
Ahh yes, the salt lords themselves
the absolute worst place on the internet, absolute scumbags
This essentially makes it incredibly hard to read this damn community
The idea that Bungie would 'remove' weapons just to replace it with essentially the exact same thing to grind hours for is just going to create an unhealthy loop. It seems like Bungie's philosophy today is just to keep people engaged in the most mundane grind possible, and this would validate their current design philosophy.
What have you done
welcome to MMOs.
Thx again for doing all the work for those of us who play the hell out of the game Datto, there's a lot of us who have very little pull in terms of changes that are coming to the game so its nice to c that all our wants, concerns, and gripes will b heard by Bungie through your videos. I for one cant wait for the weapon retirement! I'm tired of not having anything to do in the game, for the last couple expansions I hop on, get up to max power in a week and then play crucible until i'm bored witch doesn't take long btw ( because everyone's using the same shit for the 500th expansion in a row ) I'm ready to feel the excitement I did from getting Gjallarhorn or Fatebringer in D1. I'm ready for Destiny to feel like Destiny again!
My opinion is this: As long as weapon Retirement doesn't Apply to Exotics, I'm fine with it. But that's me.
They said they would be the exception
i don't see a reason to retire exotics at this time.
@@DattoDoesDestiny I had an idea a while back to mix up the meta. Not game-breaking imo but also very different and new. What if, to promote weapon loadout diversity in endgame content, old exotics were granted intrinsic Anti-Champion perks? Like how Leviathan's Breath works against Unstoppable, or Eriana's against Barrier. What if Sunshot had intrinsic Anti-Unstoppable Rounds? Or Huckleberry had intrinsic Anti-Overload? I think it would be a game changer. I suppose there could be an activity or something to unlock that perk (similar to catalysts but much more endgame and difficult). Thoughts?
I would agree with this if Exotics could actually use Champion mods. As it is, I find very little reason to use exotics in high end PVE.
@@96ayasaki ....that's kinda what I'm saying, but they wouldn't be mods. It would be automatic. Exotics can't use mods period, but something like Divinity has Anti-Overload built in. What if older exotics were updated to also included intrinsic perks like that, not mods
speaking of nerfing weapons people just got, I was doing SoTP (at the start of the season bc anarchy) and our group was talking about the izanagi's nerf. One person then said, "Iza's got nerfed? I got it yesterday!"
...ouch
Its useless now rip
@@frofighter49 Definitely not useless. It's still good for burst damage when coupled with Wendigo but it is not useful anymore for DPS.
I still think it doesn't make sense for Bungie to nerf snipers because they are (in most cases) the only special weapon viable for boss dps. Their excuse was "We want players to take their time killing raid bosses". Bullshit.
@@jetstreamlynn3156 basically the whole point of weapon other than master nightfalls/nightmare hunts which it lacks as well. I ha e over 2k kills with mine at its prime it use to crank out easily 8-9mil on argos with spike nade. Now you just shoot one shoot and switch to line in the sand for an abysmal 2.2
@@frofighter49 doesn't that sound a bit overpowered for a weapon that's supposed to be burst damage?
Something that could have helped is customisable classes like D1. Might sound odd, but if we can create a class build to our own liking, then we're more likely to go for guns and perks that fit said build over straight dps perks. Those will still be the most universal ones, sure, but off-meta perks would be way more enticing than they are now at the least, especially with perks that do/could interact more with abilities.
Honestly, weapon retirement just wants me to play the game even less than I already do. Most of my guns are mediocre to decent rolls, and I tend to keep at least one or two of the new guns from a season, often replacing an old season's weapon. So to be told that I will no longer be able to use the few I do keep consistently in higher level content is slapping someone for playing the game as it's intended to be played.
As for "it's only high level content," there's the obvious issue you addressed which is not being max power that turns people away from using them at all anyway, but there's another one.
Seasonal pve content increases in light level as well. So before long you wouldn't even be able to use that one hand cannon you love so much in story missions, adventures, or whatever the new pve thing is. What a fun game, where you can't even use ol' reliable to kill basic enemies in the most basic content.
the problem is, it wouldnt fix the situation in the game, all it would do is make people take certain weapons and only use them since they are the best for their builds.
the real solution is a better weapon system. as is, weapons in destiny are static. you dont have a reason to go after anything else unless its a better one.
its kinda ironic but, because d2 has such a defined co-opcompetitive gameplay, they cant add anything too over the top, or they risk breaking the game.
instead, they should have defined sets of weapons for each side of the game, so they can focus on making things that work for one, without having to take into account the other.
@@marcosdheleno I suppose you're right that it wouldn't encourage people to change their weapons regularly, but at the least it would encourage more weapon variety in general. If people can better create personal builds that at least work about 2/3rds as well as whatever is meta at the time, then more people will do it. Right now it feels like most builds you can make don't even get to working half as well.
Totally agree with the rest of your reply.
@@thaddeushamlet i made a post soon after this one, about an idea i had that could make use of this retirement, and still not feel shitty for forcing players to do so. its a long post but basically my idea was to make a d3 cube, where players could donate weapons, it could work like a museum or trophy room. every weapon donated would give a special currency, and from time to time weapons would be "unweakened" so they could be use for a week.
That’s what mods are.
@@benjiboy9907 hardly any mods do anything for what I was talking about.
15:48 Demolitionist is a reload perk (as in you throw the grenade and it reloads your gun) but also has the interesting side benefit of giving the gun the direct ability to recharge your grenade which is pretty neat. Makes for a good gameplay loop.
“Old man yells at clouds”
But really, watch the damn video. He has some really great points.
he literally doesn't have a single point that's how he talk about it for 20mins
@@maxqazwsxedc1050 You either didn't watch the video or you're incapable of hearing differing opinions.
Weapon retirement just sounds like fomo with extra steps
How? The weapons will still be there and they'll still be usable for the majority of the game. There's nothing to miss out on when it still exists and is still usable.
@@gaiance That's assuming that Bungie doesn't increase the required light level for current content to prevent people from using old weapons.
Oros III literally thats the entire point of weapon retirement
If anything I’d consider it the opposite of fomo. fear of missing out is like oh, if I don’t get this now, I’ll never be able to. The argument against weapon retirement is what’s the point of getting this gun if I don’t get to keep it
@@gaiance Big fuckin WOOP! "Look! We can use these weapons that took us months of grinding on the dated activities no one cares about!" < you in a nutshell. Sorry, I worked hard for my guns, so I should be able to use them on the activities I want to use them on, no?
I’m glad it’s coming. It’s just something we all dealt with back in D1. My Two To The Morgue with Rangefinder is still sitting in my vault, never being used after Dark Below.
I miss my faction weapons, at least from D1 because I was not the most active during the early faction rallies of D2.
I wouldn't mind vendor weapons...
The "but the weapon will still exist after retirement" argument always feels stale to me. Why would I use a weapon in PvP and get good with it, if I can't bring it into Trials or IB? Aside from dicking around, why would I use it in Heroic Strikes or Patrols or PE? Hell, why am I doing those things to begin with? Aside from getting a nostalgia kick when farming bounties, the only activities where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is are ones that it would be made obsolete in: Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls, Trials, IB, and even Gambit.
Yes, and this is the point, making players have a new favorite gun every 6-9 months could bring diversity and balance back to the game. Weapon retirement is meant to force you to use something different in those activities. Plus it would not be made obsolete in gambit, gambit is not power based, so your weapon choice wouldn't matter
P.S. I'm seeing this argument with pvp players saying that because a weapon won't be able to be used in trials and Iron Banner it'll be useless. Do you people only play trials? Iron Banner is a limited time event and Trials is the ENDGAME, It's supposed to be the 'raid' of pvp, not the main gamemode. And if trials is the "only (PvP) activity where I can genuinely revel in how great my favorite gun is" Then how come I see so many Spare rations mindbenders tryhards in quickplay,
@@benjaminmarson4622 did your play year 1 in D1? If you did, you’d know how bad it felt to be forced to leave those great weapons behind. When bungie listened to the community, it was decided to start infusing weapons to allow us to keep the great guns and not be forced to play one specific way. The whole “play your way” line inspired this infusion change, and it made destiny better overall with the ability to keep using the weapons/armor we wanted to use.
Now, Luke smith has to apply his dumb “magic the gathering” and “WoW” logic to destiny (a game that solely was designed to be a FPS looter shooter) and it’s ruining things again. When him and his ego took over at bungie, it was responsible for some of the worst decisions since year 1 of D1, and we’re about to experience big changes that ruin things, yet again. The problem is ppl like datto (who use destiny as their literal job) want a challenge and don’t think of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful. Just because datto and his YT buddies can smash new content wish ease and claim power creep, the majority of players can’t. The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl (YTers and streamers who have bungies ear) when most ppl want the big power fantasy we were promised. It’s not our fault that full time streamers are too good at the game, but anyone who’s been playing since sept 2014 knows dropping weapons is a backwards move that’ll hurt more than help.
If bungie put out good guns across the board, ppl would be okay with leaving stuff behind, but they aren’t good at it, the perks are intentionally crap most of the time, and no, it’s not worth using a weak weapon AT ALL in any mode... end of story. Again, if you played year 1 of D1, you’d know that tryin to use your fatebringer in any nightfall, strike, crucible, patrol, raid... anything... felt underpowered. No one is trying to use weak weapons when enemies scale and activities demand you have the strongest guns. I don’t want a challenge by making my guns weak, so I just won’t use them. And I know most ppl won’t either, cause data from D1 2014/2015 told bungie this. They knew we weren’t becoming “legend” by dropping our hard earned weapons, so again, they brought in infusion. Now, because they’re lazy and always changing the meta, this is the next step. It’s wrong.
I’m sorry, but anyone who streams destiny for a living shouldn’t have the ultimate say. I was here since the beginning and I along with my friends know leaving weapons behind (especially after they introduced infusion) is backwards thinking. If you agree with leaving stuff behind, you either didn’t play D1 when it was a thing OR you’re blinded by the “bungie does no wrong” idea. People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours. This is a bad move and only sheep and streamers agree with the “leave weapons behind” idea.
@@NeckPUNCHattack
Okay, lets address this quote by quote
First, I did not play Y1 D1, but I'm sure Datto did
"not be forced to play one specific way" Well, now we kind of are forced to play one specific way, with almost every destiny youtuber constantly making videos on what's the best, if you don't use the best thing, what are you doing? If there's going to be a 'meta' no matter what at least have the meta change every so often
"The problem is ppl like datto want a challenge of the many casual/solo/regular players who enjoy feeling powerful" I see this faulty thinking a lot in destiny criticism. Just because people like Datto aren't the majority, doesn't mean people like you are. You can't just claim what the majority wants because you have no idea what they want. (This comes up many other times so I choose not to Point it out every time)
"The game shouldn’t be decided by a small minority of ppl" It's not, while I'm sure bungie does listen to youtubers and streamers, I'm also sure they don't only listen to them.
"If bungie put out good guns across the board" To consistently do that, they would have to just make something better then what is currently in the game, which leads to power creep.
"activities demand you have the strongest guns" Do they really? do strikes "Demand" you have recluse izanagis to beat them. I'm sure what you mean is the activities that matter (High difficulty nightfalls, raids, etc.) 'demand' you to have the best weapons. Even those don't really though, you can easily beat a raid with a non-meta loadout as long as you know what you are doing and the same goes for high difficulty nightfalls.
"People like datto tell bungie whatever to get on their good side and for their benefit, not ours" This is kind of ridiculous, if datto was making this video just to get on Bungies good side, then why are there so many videos of him criticizing Destiny and saying what is wrong with the game. The only way you could think this is if you haven't seen his other videos or you think that the only real criticism is screaming THIS GAME SUCKS over and over.
Finally, I've played destiny for a little over a year and a half, and I know first-hand that change is good. When Shadowkeep first dropped and everybody used recluse, towards the end I got bored, then when season of dawn dropped and I used randy's, I was having fun again, but that fun dwindled and towards the end I was bored again. This is just the cycle and if the activity is really easy then I will sometimes use a different loadout because it is FUN. As human beings, change is good. Imagine if you were forced to watch your favorite movie non-stop for a day, eventually you would get sick of it. The same applies to guns in destiny, people use the same thing in all pve activities because they know it to be 'the best' when in most pve activities your choice of guns don't matter, so change will make you enjoy the game more.
@@benjaminmarson4622 okay... I’m sorry, but I had trouble reading all of that, so I’m just gonna tell you that since you didn’t live it the first time around, you don’t know.
And Yes, bungie do listen to the YT minority. If you know datto, you know he frequently blows smoke up bungies behind to get in their exclusive events, hosting events, etc... it’s a very well known fact that bungie listens to YTers over the majority of gamers. When D2 released, it was the only time they listened to community feedback by making it a more “accessible” game for casuals. It backfired, YTers were the ones invited to the “destiny summit” to get feedback on how to change the game (and only YTers, not random ppl), and since then, bungie has shown time and time again that they listen to YTers now so they don’t screw up again.
I’m sorry, but you either don’t know all the backstory (and I do since I’ve been here since the alpha/beta of D1) or you’re just blindly following bungie, with a disregard for what’s actually going on. I used to think they could do no wrong, but I’m an open minded person, so I noticed all the things and patterns that happened to get us to where we are now. You don’t wanna accept it, that’s on you, but anyone in the know understands bungie listens to YTers first, then their community managers (like cozmo or dmg04) will occasionally listen to feedback.
Anyway, just because you deem this change good doesn’t mean it is. I was there when this idea happened the first time and it sucked. People tend to forget that even datto hated the light system and was upset about leaving good weapons behind, but now that it’s their daily job, they need a challenge. They can’t self impose challenges, so they have to make it suck for the rest of us with these backwards ideas, but I remember when even the upcoming datto and other destiny YTers hated leaving weapons behind back then. They’re being hypocrites now only because they’re telling bungie what they wanna hear. It’s that simple. If you don’t understand that, then you won’t understand leaving stuff behind as a bad thing.
Again, if you were there first time around, you’d be on the same page as me. The only problem is the YTers who said it sucked then don’t say it now cause it’s their freakin job! They don’t wanna bite the hand that feeds them, and they won’t. If you can’t come to terms with that, then idk what to say, but it’s a fact it sucked when it happened, and it’ll suck the next time because bungie make a portion of weapon bad on purpose. If all weapons were good to some degree, I wouldn’t be against this, but this is treated like magic the gathering, so they say they’re always gonna have a portion a bad weapons... they don’t make enough good ones to have fun with, so this is bad.
Again, if you saw it first hand, you’d know, but you didn’t, so you can’t imagine it and you’re just going off of what YTers are saying and they’re saying it to appease bungie. If you don’t know that, maybe you’re not thinking for yourself then.
@@benjaminmarson4622 also, you just started a year ago? I’ve experienced every meta change, I’ve seen great weapons get nerfed just to make ppl use other bad weapons, I’ve experienced the exact thing you’re fighting for.... “change is good”.... no' it ain’t. I have year 1 elemental kinetic (adept) weapons sitting in my D1 vault that were left behind, and no, there isn’t any situation that warrants using them again. Bungie even made sure that once weapons got left behind, they double nerfed them so ppl couldn’t and wouldn’t use them in ANY activity.
In the eyes of the community, you’d still be considered a noob because you haven’t been here long enough to know how we’ve seen metas change, just for them to come around again. The hard light meta? Yea, that was a thing in D1. It was nerfed to kill the use of it til bungie was ready to bring it around again. This is what they do, and I’m sorry but ppl like you who think “a year” is grounds for speaking on this subject, well, it isn’t. If you knew first hand how bad this stuff is, then you’d be able to say it’s good or bad, but you’re still new to destiny, and you’re listening to a guy (datto) who shills for bungie daily. No, this isn’t toxic talk, it’s truth. Ask anyone who saw him start out or were here as long or longer than him, they’ll tell you, he says this stuff to appease bungie. You can hate me for going against what you like, but I’m telling you.... play destiny for a couple years... you’ll start to see what I’m saying is true, and one day, years from now, you’ll think back and realize you were just blinded by destiny. It happened to all of us.... but the ones who’ve been here the longest have seen thru bungies tactics and know that this “change” isn’t good.
I know I’m not gonna convince you, but put my 6+ yrs of destiny playtime towards your 1.5 yrs and I know I’ve been here to see metas come around multiple times and this very thing that’s happening with weapon change.... it went away because these same youtubers collectively said it sucked (along with the community), so bungie developed the infusion system. It was literally born out of how much leaving weapons behind was hated and was a bad thing. The problem is that no Yter wants to disagree with bungie when it’s their main source of income and they’ve invested so much time into getting in with them. They actually spoke their minds when it was negative in the beginning, now, not so much.
Anyway, if you had enough time with destiny like us vets, you’d see my point of view. There is a thing that makes ppl blind to this stuff and think bungie do no wrong, but one day, you’ll see it. Til then, I can’t agree with anything you’ve written.
Datto’s rants are one of my favourite things now tbh
Miyane I refuse to play destiny anymore but still watch datto videos because I love datto.
@@Neko-gn1yc Oh you refuse do you
@@Neko-gn1yc I'm similar with Brozime and Warframe. Don't love the guy, but still check his vids to see if Warframe can do anything to make me consider reinstalling it.
I’m not asking bungie to make exotic legendary weapons. I’m asking them to make it so I can change the sight on my gun without finding an entirely same new gun
Jake Vangundy I just want a suppressor to put on my weapons and the ability to change my sights colour with a shader.
Exactly this, I love getting a weapon with perfect perks and just have the absolute trashiest sights/round/masterwork on it.
This is such an amazing idea. I don't understand why some guns let you customize the sight and some don't. Customizing the sight is way more meaningful than changing out barrel perks in that it's easier to see / feel the difference from the sight changing.
Pretty good video. I think the biggest complaint i have with weapon retirement is that i just dont want to lose the weapons i am really confortable with. The comfort comes from the combination of perks, stats, looks, gameplay feel etc. Even more i dont want to lose them if i dont even know i can get something similar from the new weapons. I dont own any of the pinnacle legendaries like recluse etc. I also cant Raid cause noone in my friend group except me actually plays Destiny. So i also think making the good weapons harder to get would suck because it splits the community even more between more casual players like me and the hardcore players. My main legendary is for example the vex offensive SMG with swashbuckler and outlaw. I just really like how the weapon feels. And i want to get to max power with the wepaons i feel most comfortable with. So when the reset comes, i have no guarantee that there will be weapons i can reach max power with that i feel comfortable with. Thats my biggest complaint.
I don't think we need to jump to weapon retirement. They need to try a couple things before Im convinced it's the move.
1. We need a vendor refresh. More weapons and armor injected into the pool will increase diversity, if only for a time.
2. Make better weapons more prominent in harder content. You shouldn't get your god roll best weapon for 7 years from throwing coins at a vendor.
3. Make trash perks more viable. Rework them. I don't know a single person excited about pulse monitor.
I agree with reworking trash perks, like with pulse monitor make it give significant bonus damage when critically injured, having it be a last stand. Or for headseeker, instead of giving bonus precision damage when bodyshotting, make it give bonus precision damage when headshotting, rewarding players that are accurate.
@@benjaminmarson4622 thats what magnificent howl did and look what happened
@@alexliourtas5203 Well the bonus damage would ramp up slowly, not like Mag Howl where it's over double bonus damage for 2 headshots. Maybe it stacks up to 5 and every stack gives +10% bonus damage, and the perk would only last 3-4 seconds and get removed as soon as you hit a bodyshot. Plus it would only be on things like 180rpm hand cannons, scouts, pulses and autos.
*_"Throwing coins at a vendor"_*
*THE CURSE OF DESTINY 2, YEAR 1 LIVES OOOOONNNN!!!*
@@benjaminmarson4622 another idea. make headseeker raise a weapons precision damage flatout from 1.5 to 2 while lowering the non precision damage to 0.5 of its current multiplier.
And to cover how stupid aim assist can be, it also lowers the final value of the aim assist/reticle magnetism of a weapon by half.
Legendaries aren’t a big deal to me, but if they even consider this with exotics...we say this a lot, but retiring exotics will kill the game
@@peachmarrow2452 But they SAID they are considering it.
@@peachmarrow2452 Oh, who said they're not gonna replace them? They're just gonna release the gun AGAIN for us to grind AGAIN. It happened in The Taken King, who said it's not happening now?
They’ve already thought of doing that with things like wormgod caress, raijus’ harness, plus a couple others
What we need now, once retirement starts setting in:
Harder to get; Better the gun
Vendor Weapon: Average roll at best, ie: your not getting reload and damage perks at the same time
Trials weapons? Very good perk selection and perk combos (Also Adept weapons need to come back with like an extra perk or whatev again, I've heard giving Adept weapons Celerity would suffice, and I think that'd be cool as well)
Raid weapons? Just give us back fixed rolls with special perks again for goodness sakes, WotM, Crota and VoG weapons were awesome because they had special perks or perk combinations that literally nothing else in the game had, maybe they weren't the absolute best thing possible, yes, but atleast they felt unique, and hey, sometimes there would be another 'Fatebringer' or 'Black Hammer' weapon, and over time, yet again if it was truly too good, retirement might be/is a thing
Hey, maybe even have special strike exclusive weapons back, that drop from Legend+ Difficulty Nightfalls that can roll with very good perk combos, and maybe the higher the difficulty, the better the perk selection
And hey, if retirement fully sets in, then ritual weapons will actually be good. I mean, think about it, getting a weapon from a relatively tough quest with a godly fixed roll, while maybe no unique perks, would actually be really good then
I don'know just some thoughts
They are bringing in retirement, so I am hoping that this is a sign that they will make difficulty = Reward
I'm tired of seeing bungie babysitthese kids who say "it's too hard for me to do a raid or trials or a nightfall, I just want good loot by doing nothing!" Bungie should just come out and say Well guess what? That's to damn bad! You want good shit? You better get off your ass and work for it then!
Dude, great overview and honestly, I kinda share your opinion. Now I am not a guy who has all the gun, even all the pinnacles (still working towards lunas/NF, mountaintop, hush) but I if bungie came come up new weapons when the old ones retire, I’m down to get on the grind 👍
Gettin G-horn in D1 was a memory I will always remember, with revoker, & python, edgewise, buzzard linked with getting the savior title (my first) was probably my memory so far in D2 👍
Keep up these great videos @datto! Great content!
If Bungie want to take my Uriel's Gift, they'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands...
Even then good luck! Because I will have glued it to my cold dead hands!
BasicBod Tf2 reference
They won't take it. You can still use it in pvp and stuff where power level doesn't matter that much. Datto literally went over this like twice I think.
They would never (and have never) taken weapons, armour and other gear from people. Back in D1 when they "retired" weapons, they remained in people's vaults to use in PvP and for the memes, but made the power levels obsolete. That is definitely not the same as deleting them from the game
It's a joke guys
The glue from year 1 must have sucked when they took it away the first time.
Can you hit me up with the necromancer you used though? Have some stuff I need to get back.
okay so hear me out: instead of players farming for perks on their weapons, have them farm for unique archetypes of weapons. have a system that generates different archetypes similar to borderlands. from here, there could be a separate farm for gathering new weapon mods. this would allow us to choose our weapons based on preference and gunplay, rather than outright superior perks. maybe have some archetypes gain extra bonuses when theyre paired with a mod. like a scout rifle archetype that would have an increased dragonfly explosion, if paired with a dragonfly mod.i feel like this might keep the meta from being stale, at least for a while.
Or actually unique weapons like the red text ones in borderlands. They're not massively powerful but they're fun to use because of gimmicks.
@@EraVulgaris- "They're not massively powerful" Oh Lord you gotta try the sandhawk. Literally one of the best guns in BL2
@Qwerty Bastard dear god if I go into a crucible match and I see someone fan-firing and spare rations at 225 rpm I'm going to have 27 seizures
@Qwerty Bastard I think they just run into PVP balancing problems. Trying to juggle 75 different weapon archetypes and endless combinations of perks and mods and abilities just means things need to all be kinda the same or they need to limit what you can bring into competitive PVP. I think a mayhem mode where everything goes and all gear is allowed would be fun, then have branched off modes that trim back what you can bring in so things are stupidly broken.
This happens in EVERY game
Most people will seek easy, simple, straightforward, plain, raw damage
Some people will seek utility in their items, but most will just go for whatever gives them more damage in the simplest and most direct way possible
And sadly Bungie listened to it. The Challenges were way harder back when Bungie didn't go the softy way
Yup, see the Stopping power/Juggernaut balance issues in COD4. There was little reason to take any other perk in the slot because they were that powerful. It really hurt the diversity of game play
@@Menhadien exactly
And it even goes beyond what is in fact more powerful at a given time
There have been examples in other games of strategies that revolved arround utility, survivability, healing, and other niches that dont necesarily interact with thoose games by simply providing more damage... And even though they had a rise in popularity, the bast mayority of players still fell into the trend of going for the straightforward damage option
We've seen it in almost every game and every time it becomes more clear that it isnt only the developers' fault, but we as players also help take the game in that direction through our prefference
Altough in destiny's case, I can see the argument of damage perks being more viable as reasonable
If the seasonnal stuff have a light bonus of 10 during the given season, it'll help you in early season or for high level activities and give us a reason to look for it. As the season goes and your level increase, you'll be able to use whatever you want.
That wizard staff I'm attached too, I can keep with me as transmog. You can't do that with destiny.
Ace and that is the MAIN DIFFERENCE between destiny and an mmo yet people fail to see understand what you just typed
He literally covered that a few minutes later lmao
Yes, this is all I've wanted since destiny launched.
Also the whole talk about seasonal memories. If that were the case why are people still going crazy about copy and pasted weapons from d1? They clearly have not "moved on" from them as he says.
@@kiwa8830 We have moved on though. Of course if something you liked comes back people are going to be excited. I'm not desperate for any D1 weapons to come back to D2, but if they bring back Vex Mythoclast you bet I'm gonna be hyped.
A big problem I have with retirement is that we’ll still have huge weapon problems. They can spend three seasons forcing us to use Scouts, but they’ll still struggle. Sidearms won’t compete. Shotguns are still super risky against anything with a stomp/aoe. They can keep making us get new gear, but it’s going to be the same stuff every time. As close to a reload-damage perk combo, on whatever gun is as close to old meta as possible. I’m fine with a load out cleanse if they make something actually interesting. I’ll retire recluse without complaint when new guns aren’t boring as shit. Give us a super high rof sidearm, a sniper with a 1 rof, maybe a ballistic curved linear fusion. Not another reload-damage SMG.
Other ideas- a masher/shotgun hand cannon. A high capacity rof/lower damage rocket launcher. A linear fusion that takes a minute to fire but has damage to match. A gun that shoots bullets in stasis, and you toggle it to release them, maybe a rocket (6 players unload all the shots, then release them. Imagine the explosions). A double recursive-cluster explosion rocket launcher. A grenade launcher that shoots in an upside down curve, so it fires slightly under and curves into the sky. How about a sword that only does damage from behind, but does bonus damage. Or a crossbow, or a bow with slow projectile speed but controllable flight. Or a blunderbuss. So much potential for what could be entire weapon classes, but we will only ever get something even remotely close to anything new with exotics. Could any of these be unbalanced? Yeah. They could. But not nearly as bad as we’ve had and fought to keep. On a selfish note, icebreaker. Bring back my favorite exotic :(
Edit: yes I watched the video. Yes I understand his points. Yes the icebreaker was a joke, i spent the whole time talking about guns with virtually no real unique aspect then mentioned one of the most generic weapon (love it, but it was all about just having ammo) yes, sidearms are good rn. You got me, but with the same perks you get on every other weapon made for ad clear. Yes, D1 scouts were good. But this isn’t D1, scouts aren’t the same, much as I fucking loved them (Treads upon stars with explosive payload was a blast). And to the point that “watch the vid” and “that’s the point of weapon retirement” we saw this before, weapon archetypes stayed the same. Weapon retirement won’t do much if Bungie doesn’t fill the gap with something that isn’t the same as before. “Unique” doesn’t mean a lot. A hand cannon that shoots twice per shot was pretty unique, and they dropped it pretty hard. Unique doesn’t mean a gun with a nifty roll. They can clear the whole board, but nothing will change if they just replace the sandbox with the same stuff.
TLDR- They can retire weapons, but if they don’t start making some *truly unique* weapons, it’s going to be the exact some chase for the (current year) version of an old gun/perk combo. Use the chance to get crazy, make something special. Don’t just make a small gimmick and call it unique Bungie.
Did you even listen to what he said on the video? : DD
@@eemilpolus2767My thoughts exactly lmao
Huh? Scouts were very popular in D1 for PvE, sidearms are literally the best add clear weapons in the game right now...better than recluse. Shotguns are also very good but you need to use them in the right scenario. To claim that no matter what they do the meta will always be the same is ridiculous. Sounds like YOU’RE the problem for not switching to sidearms and still using nothing but recluse because you’re to lazy to try anything new. Also you make all these complaint and then ask for Ice Breaker back? Is that a joke? That gun literally broke so many aspects of the game making PvE very easy and you’re asking for it back? Lmao you’re opinions suck
AFX paladin literally every point you made in your comment was addressed in the video, watch before commenting
Yeah, the whole point of weapon retirement is that Bungo spends all their time managing risk instead of making anything interesting. Weapon retirement lets them go "Hey, let's try something crazy, and if it's broken it'll be gone in three months." Obviously they still need to do some work on encounter design, but they need to fix the main problem first, and that problem is "there's no reason to play a looter shooter if the loot isn't interesting."
remember when you could just walk up to the vanguard quartermaster and pick up a god roll sniper
I personally agree. As much as it stings, it’s for the best. Once you get a couple good guns, you’re done with D2’s shooter sandbox. Once you get armor with 10s across the board, you’re done with D2’s armor sandbox. It gets sorta dull once you hit that ‘ceiling.’
i just want story, character moments, story moments that leave me breathless. i dont care about these mini story archs cause they just suck. theres no new enemy to fight and no new areas to fight them in. thats my reason for not really caring for this game lately
My name is byf just released a good video on that topic that was really well done.
D grave that’s fair that’s personally why I try to dive deep into the lore to make it more interesting and for something’s that others may think are small it can really make stuff more interesting because you know what this could mean, it’s almost like an inside joke. It’s a lot better when you know what it is
@@twistedstorm8821 yeah but its just lore. Ive said once and ill keep saying it till this game dies or i, the game would be infinitely better if all the lore was put into the game as interactable or missions done by you're character. I dont want to read it, i want to experience it.
I’m surprised that there has only been 1 new enemy type, and it’s severely underused, with the other enemy types being very over saturated (with the exception of the taken, though I still don’t understand why they still exist).
@@SmoothTurtle840 technically there are many 'new' enemy types since D1. Red legion are fundamentally different to regular cabal. Taken were new in D1 and have been expanded a ton in D2. The fallen have many new members and were expanded upon too. It's not like they aren't improving.
wait... how is demolitionist not a reload perk. lmao. it literally reloads your weapon by throwing a grenade...
a) apparently doesn't count as an actual reload (kill clip/multi kill clip doesn't proc)
b) requires you to throw a grenade (may not always be there when you need to reload unlike say field-prep/outlaw)
c) main use of demolitionist for most people is to recharge your grenade, not reload your weapon
also speaking of which, imo demo and grave robber and similar perks should proc kill clip/mkc. if hunter dodge can proc it, demo and grave robber should too.
e8z'sy yah I get it’s main function isn’t reload focused but it still can. I got demo kill clip old fashioned and was sad when I learned this interaction didn’t work. :(
Becuase there's no animation, it happens on the background
It's more of an autoload instead of reload. Just like how autoload holster doesn't work with kill clip, demolitionist is the same as autoload except you're throwing a nade instead of putting the gun away.
@@MaestroEspada same as Hunter dodge. It makes the autoloader reload sound even. Why should that proc it then but others without reload animations don't?
18:26 Spoke to me directly. I'm a new light player and I got Izanagi's... 2 weeks before it was nerfed. Thankfully I grabbed Whipser of The Worm the week before.
This is the shit WE NEED TO HEAR, this entire thing is in all honesty what I feel is going on, I feel certain things shouldn’t be this simple to get when all that we see in some activities are weapons and tactics from years ago still being perpetuated
Ok, hear me out. Make guns as good feeling as the Saint 14 guns (reload + damage perks all day), but let those weapons be the only weapons to freely level up to the seasonal pinnacle cap. Then set up a system where you must perform a "relatively hard" task that lets you earn a consumable that will allow you to let 1 weapon of your choice outside of a season be upgraded so it can go up to the seasonal pinnacle. You get 1 a week for X amount of weeks and then that's it. You can't bring everything, but you can pick the few things you love, and have to grind for more weapons to fill the ones you couldn't bring. This way if I really really like my (insert god roll weapon that took 2 months of raid grinding to get), I can continue using it until Bungie makes a similar gun in a new season and it work well with a new seasonal mod (something that the old raid weapon wouldn't do). If I'm gonna be forced to let weapons go, I want something that will help me fill it's spot. These revamped faction weapons have a few perks I like (I'm loving overflow as a perk, it's awesome) but the other perks aren't as alluring. I'm playing games to have fun, not mitigate a meta.
This here is what should be done
Matt Gibbia I like this
When I went from the end of year 1 to year 2 to d2 it made me feel like I was starting a new chapter in “my” destiny story kinda like a “new game/story+” feeling. It actually got me excited to find new stuff and explore a new play style. I might not have explained this right but it just feels good to create a new build after playing with the same stuff for a while.
you get it.
@the Legend IDK, I think that they should create weapons that require you to use them a certain way in order to get extra damage. Also maybe some perks that increase resilience or mobility for a sort period of time after a kill and maybe something like demolitionist but for melee energy. Just spitting some thoughts.
Ya Mem's Ramen so, something like the warmind cell system with the Season of the worthy weapons, using them with the new mods creates nuclear bombs whose effects you can change? Because that’s what they did
Yeah exactly. A NEW build. It just seems that what results would be the same build again and again
@@kingpyrrhusofepirus6686 something I always wished was more "build" options. Like I was making a healing build with lumina and it was really fun, just wish there'd be some guns I could use to spec more into the build
See, me personally, I would love a hard reset at this point... it’s why I’m clinging onto the idea of D3 because I feel as though there’s nothing to grind for anymore due to the fact that increasing our power doesn’t have any effect of anything. We’re chasing power for no reason!
Cooper Van Bruchem Yeah I agree, also there are some perks in D2 that I feel completely ruin the chances for others that need to be completely deleted. I don’t think people will be happy if Bungie deletes kill clip, rampage, and other damage boosting perks in D2 because everyone has become too used to everything having it, so a hard reset where these perks are deleted would be great. In D1 we didn’t really have any perks on legendaries that just ramped the damage up, rather we had some that made explosions or generated more ammo into the magazine or just helped base stats of our weapon. I’m using DIM to look through all my D1 items and almost all the perks on them were utility perks boosting range or stability further, or explosive rounds/firefly/triple tap etc. Nothing straight up just gave me more damage like rampage or kill clip.
@@smoltoaster Crowd Control existed, but it was basically a proto-Rampage with only one stack. IIRC it was also a lot rarer to find, but my memory may be rusty.
SundownMarkTwo Yeah, there were very few damage based perks put on legendaries and they were not nearly as potent as rampage or kill clip. Firefly was like, the best perk for a while on legendaries which is odd to see as firefly is completely ignored in D2.
@@SundownMarkTwo I believe the other one was reactive reload which is basically kill clip I can't think of any other ones
Genny Manun Yup. The perks were very rarely distributed though. I hardly ever saw reactive reload. A few shotguns I know had crowd control. I cant think of very much though. Weapon diversity was pretty decent in D1 because there wasn’t a single best perk set for most weapons. There were a few that stood out but it was fine because they were Raid weapons or just very good weapons that got retired eventually.
I think a fun way to fix some of the farm for gear and encourage players to do raids and events is do set rewards, like if you have 3 of the 8 slots of gear give you a perk where is you get 5 out of 8 gives you a better buff. I like MMO and one of the most fun for me is Neverwinter where you get rewarded for having gear from the same event so it gives people a reason to farm the raid along with random perk drops. And maybe even include a set specific ghost and give them more of a reason to have
The seasonal mod system has made me switch up my loadouts. Last season I was mainly using abilities to break champions while running triple shotgun for fun, while now I'm using Exit Strategy, Divinity/Devil's Ruin, and any legendary heavy of my choice.
The last time Bungie dropped an amazing vendor gun was Hung Jury. There have been great, good and decent vendor guns, but never on the level of HJ.
Hung jury was a godtier weapon indeed, but there were some more. Palindrome, havoc pigeon, last ditch and the sniper Eirene FR4 (?) from banshees orders.
Exactly! That's the last time I gave a shit about vendor weapons.
Palindrome
@@Batuatron Meh. The Eyasluna was better.
_Masko_ we’re talking about vendor weapons
Demolitionist is actually kind of a reload perk, considering the mag refill when using nade. It’s just slower than other reload perks, like Outlaw and Feeding Frenzy.
Give the new seasonal weapons from the activities (sundial, vex offensive weapons in their respective seasons) have a seasonal perk slot for a good perk, and when the season finishes you get a random perk
"We don't use osmosis"
Speak for yourself, I spent all of last season loving Osmosis, it's one of my favorite new perks and has proven itself near essential in match game
I use my Patron with Osmosis for anything with Match Game now
He's not speaking for himself he's speaking about the community, as a whole, going for the easy perk combo and "intresting" to most of the community being more powerful weapons.
Heinz yeah, you and the 87 other people love it
He means it in the way that most people dont use it even though it might be powerfull. But its just not good enough to grind for it. I mean almost every activity is easily doable without osmosis and osmosis makes it not really easier
Same I love osmosis.
Evey time I see "datto talks" I say oh boy lets do this
I’m wondering if they should do things like borderlands and Division 2. Specific classes can get bonuses for certain weapons. Pulses, autos, and shotguns? Titans get bonuses fire rate by a small amount. Scouts, fusions rifles, and linear fusions? Bonus damage by tiny amount for warlocks. Hand cannons, snipers, swords? Literally anything small and interesting
This, in my opinion would add a new system of balance. If you’re going against at titan using a hand cannon while you also have one, if you’re both of equal skill, then hunter should probably win it. Things like this makes an interest to me.
I got an *ok* Accrued Redemption from my first time in Garden of Salvation. Rangefinder Rampage. I know that’s not anything close to a godroll, but it feels so good to use that I have like 2k kills on it, in like 2 weeks.
My only issue with Weapon Retirement is that Bungie only adds like 10-15 new weapons per season, meaning at any given time, there’s only like 1-3 options in a given archetype that can be used in high level content. If they want to leave stuff behind they either need to add more weapons per season, or hope we accept the fact that we will have basically no options if we want to participate in high end content. This problem makes it difficult to really appreciate the comparison to other MMO games. WoW and Diablo add hundreds (sometimes thousands) of gear pieces in an expansion when leaving behind the old gear. Destiny adds maybe 15 weapons we can actually use, and we all know 12 of them will be worthless shard fodder.
Also they’d need to exempt Drang and MIDA Mini or make sure to release new versions every 9 months so as to not invalidate the exotics.
I really just want them to bring back Raid/Trials gear with extra perks. Bonus damage to X combatant or on X locations. Decreased damage taken when interacting with X mechanic.
Also 99% of us are not in the “I refuse to upgrade unless it’s a 100% increase in effectiveness in all situations” crowd. I will literally take a worse gun than the one I use now as long as it plays similar and looks cooler. The vast majority of the community does not participate in this MinMaxing culture.
I also regularly hear you say that we don’t get powerful raid loot because people who don’t raid complain. I have seriously never seen this group of people and I have never met one. I am unconvinced this is actually a thing and I am convinced that you, as a prominent figure, probably see 100 people like this in your comments and think that it must be a large group when it really isn’t.
On the raid gear thing, I'm on both sides. I'm a super introverted player, so I basically never get the chance to do raids or high end nightfalls and whatnot, and I bugs the hell out of me whenever some other player is smacking the shit out of me in the crucible with a weapon I can't get. Mindbender's, back when nightfalls were both never matchmade and difficult, was a constant frustration. Having the best gear in the crucible gated behind a different high end activity is a bit of a pain for a relatively casual, solo, primarily pvp player like me. I don't complain on the internet, but I sure do sometimes rant a bit at a muted mic.
On the other hand, a while ago I was looking at the raid collections weapons, and trying to spot a good one and... well, there wasn't really any raid weapon besides the exotics that I could think of ever being relevant. There were a few that had their moments, the GoS pulse and sniper, the SoTP shotgun, the old Leviathan hand cannon, but for the most part they were... bad. And that just seemed wrong, that every single last wish legendary was ultimately irrelevant, especially when I finally did a raid and got a shitty bow as my reward.
There's a simple solution of course. Make the PvE rewards good PvE weapons and the PvP rewards good PvP weapons. Problem solved. (It's obviously not that easy, but what was Bungie thinking with Mountaintop?)
Sebastian Turner with mountain top they probably thought “ok were gonna give it a shitty grenade option (spike grenades) and a meh option (sticky grenades) and make it a pocket rocket launcher” but what they didn’t know was people are crack heads and abuse the shit out of stuff
@@howardyost7290 Yeah, that's actually probably right.
can u pls make a podcast? ur voice is relaxing and it‘s rlly interesting to hear ur opinion on different topics
Check out GG/EZ episode 6.
Ya Mem's Ramen I love fruit but for some reason I can’t stand his podcast
I didn’t get the VoG scout rifle until after HoW had dropped, the first retirement of D1, but I still loved that gun and was super hyped to get it. I can’t think of a gun I was hyped to get in D2 at all.
This didn't age well.