Based on e-mails I've received, I want to clear up an area of possible confusion. The points covered in this video are intended to address and help those players who have invested in a Gibson Les Paul but now have a difficult time keeping it in tune. It then goes on to say what can be done about those problems. Some are under the mistaken impression that I'm suggesting they buy the guitar, then make upgrades to the hardware. I myself might do that but at least I'm going into it with the full knowledge of what to expect with a Gibson Les Paul. Some have asked the question, why buy one in the first place if it is known to have issues? The answer for me is that in spite of the need (IMHO) to upgrade the bridge, pickups and tuners, it is an otherwise outstanding guitar. The neck either feels right in your hand or it doesn't. The body either feels right when you hold it or it doesn't. Those factors plus the bound neck and the fact that I want to support a USA company do it for me. I realize what these guitars cost vs imports and USA Fenders but I'm willing to pay it to have what I consider to be the quality in the areas I mentioned. By the way, I have owned many USA Fenders including a customized Tele I now have. If you would like to make civil, rational comments, feel free. Those who post vitriolic, argumentative comments, especially those using foul language will be deleted. Peace. BH
Once I went to locking tuners on my Les Paul and my SG and it helped a ton! I'm a blues rock player and a big bender and now they stay in tune as well as my Strat and Tele. Great video!
Bobby, agreed, totally. My Epiphone Les Paul stays in tune but just doesn't have that playability & feel like my Gibson Les Paul. My LP has issues with strings 1-3. I always graphite the nut but this time just doesn't seem to alleviate the problem. I've ordered some Big Bends Nut Sauce. If problem persists, I'll replace the nut or have it refiled. The Grover tuners seem ok...
John564 Holloway - Some ppl seem to have good luck with those String Butlers. Looks like something i'd like to try in the future, but on my acoustic that has a headstock similar to the Les Paul.
Not meaning to argue, I just disagree. I should be allowed to post the reasons I have. We do not have to agree to be able to make valid points that could be informative or educational to your viewers. A good discussion has various viewpoints that conflict at times and should stay posted instead of deleting comments you do not agree with.
Richard Díaz I agree, especially after all this time. I don’t have this problem too often though. Obviously 2 guitars will be different, but I feel like sometimes people over exaggerate. Or just need to stretch their strings lol. A good set of locking tuners is a nice upgrade though.
Over my 55+ years of playing, performing, and teaching, I've found that 99.9% of tuning "instabilities" and problems can be alleviated by properly wrapping the strings at the pegs, and by properly tuning. First, if you don't have locking tuners, run your new string thru the tuner hole, then bring it 1/2 way around the peg and put it under the string where it enters the peg hole, in the same direction as the string is to be wound. Next, pull it up so that it becomes locked under the string when it is tuned up. Leave no more than about two winds when the string is tuned to pitch (I usually leave around one wind). Extra winds leave extra room for string settling and slippage. NEXT: When you tune, first tune all strings to approximate pitch, and give each string a good pull, then re-tune to approximate pitch again. Now, tune each string individually, first tuning to pitch, then pulling on it and re-tuning it until it stays in tune after pulling on it. Do this EVERY SINGLE TIME you tune, NOT just when you put new strings on your guitar!! There ARE some things that will cause tuning headaches, such as temperature fluxuations and sun/shadow while playing an outdoor show, and humidity variations, but this will keep you in tune as well as possible. I've found that tuning problems are VERY SELDOM actually hardware problems, although once in a while, (as seen with the loose tuners in Bobby's video) there can be a mechanical problem, but problems like that are due to poor maintenance rather than actual hardware malfunctions. BTW, I have locking tuners on most of my guitars and love them, and I play 6-8 shows a month average, so MUST have them in tune!!
Kevin, I agree with much of what you said although I differ with you on a couple of points but here is the thing: I appreciate you being civil and explaining your position from what you see as your logical point of view. That's the way it should be. Some people are just downright nasty and furthermore, I can show them the faults in their logic but I don't keep their vitriol on my pages, I just delete them. If a person has an experience or opinion different from mine, that's OK, as long as they keep it civil. Blessings upon you and yours. BH
Kevin thank you for leaving this method and technique as a comment I've come across House video before in the past but just didn't have the patience to watch it. I'm a Les Paul affection Auto have had tuning problems particularly with one Les Paul that I have and thought about in the past even when I was a kid about the idea of wrapping the strings properly because if you don't do it the correct way you leave slippage. You're a guitar teacher you obviously have mountains of experience compared to me and to hear this from a professional is wait to see. I do have another question and I'd like to ask your opinion but it doesn't necessarily pertain to Les Paul's and I don't want to bunk up is video with unrelated stuff would you mind e-mailing me back when you get the opportunity please my email is ssabp8@gmail.com. this too is a tuning issue but it's related to another guitar that I just picked up and I would like to have your opinion please I would greatly appreciate it when you get the opportunity
I’ve found the modern tuning posts very taxing to get right - I did research and found this way I like - thread the end then - keeping as much tension on the string as you can manage - do one normal turn around ABOVE the threaded string - the second turn should go UNDER so you sandwich the threaded string - and all remaining turns follow under that one. I don’t think it matters if the string isn’t sandwiched touching both winds around the post as sometime happens - because after three turns around the post - it’s super tight on the post anyway - like the horses were tied up in westerns hehe. This style you have the string making full contact with the post on each wind - no special loops or locks - and you can wind all of your selected string length all the way down the post which gives a nice steep break angle. Keeping tension while winding is key to this. The only problem I still haven’t solved with this is the threaded short end of the string- can be sharp and is exposed - which is why vintage klusons style is a much better design imo.
I appreciate your videos, thanks. i bought a cheap gold les paul and getting ready to replace all mechanisms. I''ll look for yiur videos and learn from them. I'm new at this. I love guitars. @@BobbyHoweGuitar
It's expensive but it will.....put it on the bridge saddles too. I use graphite and hoppes #9 oil......get a fine metal file and a pencil.... make grapite powder....add a couple drops of Hoppes #9 with it. (can get it in the gun section of walmart or a gun store). It will be like a thin mud. Works as good but will make a white nut a little black from the lead.
Lub on non whammy guitar is a snake oil rip off. If ya nut is properly filed there is no need for that goop. If ya nut isnt filed correctly lub isnt going to help the situation and if you file your nut correctly lub is a waste of money.
Man, I love UA-cam. So much great information on here. Thank you for making a video about this! I thought I was the only one with this tuning problem ( new player here). Keep it going , brother!
Thank you for your information. I've had a different experience. I have a 1969 SG Standard with engraved Vibrola tailpiece, of which I am the original owner. To this day, it is my mainstay instrument of the guitars I own. Early on, I became aware of tuning issues with it, particularly mostly with the G string (it's an otherwise superb instrument). I tolerated its tuning issues for decades, but, as I grew more experienced and wise, I decided to do something about it. I consulted various UA-cam videos on the topic, and spoken with several luthiers, to analyze the issue with this guitar. Gibson has created very few guitar models that have tuners only on one side of the headstock. Most are 3L & 3R. Because of this, there is a lateral break angle behind the nut to the left, for the A & D strings, and a lateral break angle behind the nut to the right, for the G & B strings (both E strings are straight pull behind the nut). Complicating this is the drop angle of the headstock relative to the plane of the neck. I have solved the tuning issues virtually completely by doing 2 things: replacing the tuning machines with Sperzel locking tuners (which are similar to the Grovers you eschew), and installing a String Butler on the headstock, mounted just above the truss rod cover, which changes those 4 strings' break angle to straight pull, up to their roller bearing pivot points (then, on to their respective tuning posts: no sharp angles). Those two mods have eliminated tuning issues and have made tuning extraordinarily stable. I do not need to wind several coils of string onto the tuning posts; 3/4s of 1 wind (or less) around the posts are sufficient, which also eliminates the potential of the strings going out of tune due to several winds gradually settling in under string tension against the tuning posts, resulting in the tuning going flat. It is also of paramount importance that after changing strings and bringing them up to pitch, that the strings be manually stretched and returned to pitch several times, until it becomes apparent that the tuning remains stable. This is not to say that the guitar never goes out of tune; just that the degree of tuning variance is slight (by cents of pitch) when/if it does.
Great video, Bobby! Your Les Paul sounds amazingly full and balanced tonally. It's easy to hear that the changes you've made are the reason. Thank you!
With my Les Paul, I replaced my tuners with Grover Roto-Grips (I think the ones you originally replaced) and they eliminated my tuning issues. I tend to play heavier riffs so you can imagine the nightmare i was having. I like seeing how other players correct their problems. Thanks for sharing.
I hear this often about Gibson Les Paul’s. I’ve been playing for over 40 years and had a few Les Pauls through the years. I’ve never had any major issues with them staying in tune.
This video and another I just watched helped my tuning issues greatly. The most useful for me from this video, was realizing how loose the tuner screws and nuts were on my almost new Les Paul. Even with the standard (non locking) Grover tuners, just reasonably tightening the screws on the back of the headstock (some were simply not in all the way), and tightening the nuts on the front of the headstock reasonably snug. I used some nut and saddle lube also. I bend lot and I went from having tuning issues to really no issue at all with about 30 minutes work. Thanks for your part in this solution. The answer was really just a little maintenance.
Hi Bob, thanks for your note. The situation of yours becoming totally resolved was the exact thing I was trying to convey. You worked it out very much in accordance with what I learned from my experience. I am so glad that you fixed your tuning issues and that I could play a small part in it. All the best, BH
It’s usually the g and the d strings that go out of tune reason being the angle that those strings lead out to the tunners. My sullution is to lube the nut and replace the tunners with some locking tunners.
We have here the Bob Ross of solving tuning problems on Les Paul models. Bobby took Gibson’s happy accident and made a happy cloud, all while relaxing you with the friendly tone of his soft voice. Thanks Bobby “Ross”!
Me too: I also wrap as many windings on the tuning posts as possible. It has few advantages, and no disadvantage: the strings are leaving the post on the very round part near the mounting nut- so less breakage there. Also the sound will be tighter, because of different vibration of the post. I can not relate to the „rule“ of two wounds per tuner- post, because of slippage. It makes no sense to me. Why not half wound? Because it slips?Well, it seams that 1.5 wounds more are not slipping anymore. So, if I wind 10 times, the first 8.5 windings won‘t move eighter...☺️ I doubt very much that there could happen a stretch of the strings..., if the friction is high enough to counteract slippage, there can not happen any stretching. I also found that tightening (not overdoing) the little screws on the end of the tuning knobs help stabilizing the worm gear inside the tuner, due friction.
I wrap atleast three windings on the posts, I stretch them, and leave the tuning one note high until ready to play, then I retune, with backing off 1/2 note, and bringing back into tune, so I don't normally have problems!
@@S3nna_12 well actually in the case of the les Paul, it is primarily the headstock design that desperately needs an update. The angle and the string spread is the real issue. Ideally strings should go straight through the nut
Kjarthan Mørkeberg Reece Thank you. Finally someone not talking this “a 2k guitar should stay in tune” pointless drivel. Gibson designed a headstock that looks great before the science of what you are talking about was understood. If they changed the headstock some people might be happy that it stays in tune better, but the company weighs that versus the concern that people will revolt against it and freak out like with New Coke.
You are correct sir...all the vibration loosens EVERYTHING on the guitar...after snugging everything up, i had to have a bone nut put on cuz i had severe binding at the nut...once the nut got right and everything was snug, i can bend forever...it stays in tune fantastic....great vid brother!!!
I replaced the factory nut on one of my Gibson Les Paul Studio guitars with a custom fitted brass nut and I noticed a big difference with the guitar staying in tune. I also replaced the factory Gibson deluxe tuning machineheads of that same guitar and replaced them with Grover tuning machineheads... Those two modification did wonders for that guitar. I may have a go with a different bridge in the future... But right now that guitar sounds great and it finally stays in tune! Right now I own five Gibson Les Paul guitars. One 1960 classic, three Studio guitars and one Custom. My Classic plays the best and I've had zero issues with it since I swapped the factory machineheads with the Grover machineheads. My Custom is the "problem child"... It won't stay in tune and I have had it set up with a professional guitar tech and that helped a lot... I just don't want to modify my Custom at the moment. I enjoyed watching this! Thanks for sharing! Tom Lloyd
Thanks Tom for your nice words and for watching my videos! Sounds like you've come up with some solutions that are working for you! Keep up the good work! All the best, BH
String butlers fixes it for $50.00. It changes the severe bend of the strings at the head and straightens the string pitch and then reduces the amount of tuning your constantly doing. You can get black clear or gold tone. Works everytime.
I bought the Schaller Tuneomatic Roller Bridge, without changing the original Groover locking tunners, it works really really good. The playability is much better, the sound is clearer to my ears and it stays in tune. Great. Thanks Bobby.
Thankyou for taking the time sir very informative I've been playing a long time and had many guitars over the years including Les Pauls in the end Ive built my own from scratch it suits me better than anything I've ever had and paid fortunes for. But y'know what I built it as a Les Paul and used your tips to make sure I have the best guitar for me and one that stays in tune! God bless you Bobby
Thanks Steve! Glad you liked the video. Here are a couple of links that should have the info you want. Notice that now Schaller offers the bridge in either configuration, no need for a person to have to change it around. Thanks for watching my videos and all the best. schaller.info/en/bridges/328/stm www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/All_Hardware_and_Parts_by_Instrument/Electric_Guitar_Parts/Electric_Guitar_Bridges_and_Tailpieces/Tune-o-matic_Bridges/Schaller_Roller_Bridge.html TK 7840-001 Schaller Keys 3X3 Nickel www.allparts.com/products/tk-7840-schaller-grover-style-3x3-keys
@Dre180 Hi Dre 180, I'm not sure what to say about that. I provided an All Parts link just as a convenience. The numbers of the exact parts I used were shown in the video. I suppose the price could have changed between then and now but $180 seems to me to be excessive. I only laid out about $70 for the ones I got. Check the numbers on the box I showed in the video and see if you can find what you need that way. I hope this has been helpful. All the best, BH
Very helpful video. I think the tuning problems mainly stem from the headstock design, where the D and G strings have a sharp bend to get to the tuning peg. These are the 2 strings that go out of tune and also break the most frequently. If you don't mind spoiling the historical esthetic, having a luthier redrill and mount the tuning pegs in a PRS or Ernie Ball design should solve the problem as well. IMHO.
I have a Les Paul Custom shop that's completely stock. It stays in tune like you wouldn't believe. A luthier buddy of mine says the 6/6 nylon nut they use is a big part of that. The material is super slick and dense. Notoriously hard to cut and shape but will practically last forever.
my les pauls stay in tune perfectly. I set mine up somewhat simular to yours. I keep the tension tight across the neck and it does help keep the tuning better. so does the tuning keys being grover.
Ty!! Question Sir: How high are those new tuning posts? Did they alter the string break angle behind the nut? For example, the string tighter in nut slot ? Some ppl claim that if the post are shorter resulting in tighter break angle, the strings may feel different, stiffer. I'm very interested in upgrading my old standard Grovers. Thank you for your time and videos. Blessings, Jim.
You're welcome! The posts are about twice as high as the locking Grovers. One can get a higher angle on these type of tuners by winding more of the string on the post and having more of the string wound on the post facilitates less string breakage. Best wishes!
Ty for your reply! At your convenience sir could you do me a huge favor before I order? Could you measure how high those tuning posts are that you are referring to? And the exact model of tuners? Yours may not be available currently. At least ill know the specs. As you stated, Tuners definitely make a huge difference. I put my old sperzels on and those posts are very short. As a result, the strings had a much stiffer feel. I'm assuming due to the increased break angle from nut. My 30+ year old standard Govers were much higher yielding better feel but they are worn out. Thank you for your time!! Blessings, Jim
Thanks a lot! You are my hero! I tried to solve the tuning issue of my Gibson. It took me weeks and all the other Videos and forums couldn't help me. They all talked about the bullshit of "its the bridge" and "its the saddle" and IT WAS NOT! I also have an expensive Gibson and couldnt imagine that these parts were of a bad quality. All 6 tuners were loose. The more the string got out of tune, the more loose was the tuner. Its a simple correlation. BTW: the tuners of my Strat were a little bit loose, too. Like some others already said: it takes half an hour time and afterwards you will be happy!
Hello RPJH91, Thanks for you nice note! You are smarter than most because you simply took the advice put forth in the video and applied it with what we both know was the expected results. Most players that write me are reasonable, wonderful people but I have had a few that have said some nasty things about me and what I say. Once again, you are smarter than most. Thanks for being a reasonable person! All the best, happy playing! BH
I have a 1978 Les Paul Standard that I’ve always used 8 gage string on it. Recently I’ve gone to 9s and goes out of tune quickly. So I widened the slots on the nut and applied some lubricant to the nut slots, problem solved. The main issue with tuning stability is the angle of the d and g strings to the tuning pegs, it’s a inherent problem with all guitars with 3x3 head stocks. Thanks for the video I will be getting a roller bridge.
Thanks Bobby. You explained it with simple mechanical logic and added examples to your explanations. Schallers are seen commonly on many acoustics. I always wondered why they weren't more common on electrics. A lot of guys I see complaining about tuning on LPs seem to coincidentally use Grovers yet they all brag on their Grovers..
I do this 1 string at a time usually from the bottom E 1st, after removing that string. Using a sharp graphite pencil, graphite tail piece holes, Bridge slots, nut slots, and holes of tuning pegs. 2. Thread string through calculating 3 winds on tuning peg. Bend string on tuning peg so it holds, then hold string taught as it winds down. 4. tune string, then lightly pull string to set the string, and recheck it's tuning. Repeat step 4 until the string holds it's tune after a pull test. 5. Repeat this process for the rest of your strings until all are done. 6. Re check the tune and retune if needed. If you use cliche's and other bends or whammy bar, the guitar should hold a good tune even when stretched. This method sets the strings coil around the tuning pegs. While "dry" lubricating the areas the string passes through. Your local guitar shop may carry liquid graphite. I do this to all my guitars. The 3 winds on the tuning peg isn't a must have 1 less or 1 more won't hurt anything. They also make a string stretcher tool but, "I've never used it from fear of breaking a string" Hope this makes better sense.
Thanks for the informative video. Nice chord melody BTW. I’m sure the Schallers are great tuners, but I still have a question. How did the original Grover tuners do after tightening them up correctly? Did you notice an improvement from that?
Brian, thanks for your question. One thing I thought I made clear in the video, based on comments I've received, perhaps I didn't ... The Grover locking tuners, once tightened, hold tuning just fine ... I said in the video that I didn't like the locking tuners because of the whole idea behind them. They are purposely designed with shorter tuning posts. They are designed to allow the locking pin in the center of the post to contact the string and lock it into place, supposedly. The locking knurled nut on the rear of the tuner controls this. I disagree with this way of doing things. The idea, supposedly, is to allow people to change strings faster if they break them while playing, i.e., during a performance. I said in the video that winding more of the string around the tuning post (longer tuning posts with the non-locking tuners) helps to lessen string breakage and maintain tuning. I believe that the center pin in the locking tuners weakens the string by partially compressing it and thereby contributes to string breakage. As far as I can remember, I've never broken a string unless it was defective from manufacture. I simply don't break guitar strings. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Thanks for the feedback! I only asked because I am attempting to diagnose a tuning stability problem with a recent purchase of my own. I’m not even sure the tuners are the problem or not because it has some other issues that could be causing tuning instability too. It’s a really cheap pawn shop orphan (not an nice expensive guitar like yours!) so I’m trying to make it playable while spending as little as possible in the process!
I'd also recommend a String Butler. I put one on my old LP and it's done wonders to hold that dreaded G string in tune. Rarely do I have to make adjustments now and they're minor ones at that when I do. It's also a more affordable option to new tuners or a bridge.
I’ve done the very same thing although I’ve swapped out an out the Ratio Tuners, the roller bridge, an the pickups i put on are the Seymour Duncan Phat P-90’s. Although I had PAF pickups I’ve always preferred P-90’s and these will stand up to any humbucker
My Benton has some Chinese tuning machines and they hold tune preety well, I play really aggressive, heavy handed. Only thing that I did is that I removed plastic nut and put Brass one in. Just lube it once in a one or two week and it will work. Also I lock strings down with special wrapping.
Thanks! Amp is one that is old, not made anymore ... Peavey XR600F powered mixer ... speakers are homebrew ... I hope this helps ... thanks for watching and liking my videos and for subscribing to my channel ... Bobby H.
@@BobbyHoweGuitar Yes, thx. I used a Peavey dual 10 band PA amp from that period with 15's and this reminded me of that. I'm thinking of going back to that setup.
The only guitars I have which stay in tune forever are my ibanez with floating zero edge, variax standard and my vester super strat. All my other guitars will go out of tune occasionally.
On my LP I did - roller bridge, compensated nut, with graphite pencil rubbed in the slots, and locking tuners (with minimal wrap). Almost did the trick, but is much better. I would love to be able to move the D and G tuners in and up slightly to account for the break angle that the strings are at.
Roller bridge and top tuners are very good, but what you could also do is to fit a String Butler. Your problem will be solved. The G string on my Gibson SG would go sharp. After I installed Hipshot locking tuners and a String Butler, the G string now stays in tune. I left the nut as is. BTW, I like the green LP, reminds me of Francis Rossi's green Tele. Love to hear your style of chord playing with Seymour Duncan 59 pickups in that LP.
Ty for your videos! Very helpful. I have a question for you sir. Did the 14 inch radius of the Schallers roller bridges affect much of the feel and tuning due to the 12 inch radius on the Les Paul's? Thank you for your time. Jim
Jim, thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! As far as the radii of the neck vs. the bridge, I simply relied on the reputation of precise German engineering when they stated in their literature that this bridge was a drop-in replacement for a Gibson Les Paul bridge. I didn't question it. As far as having an effect that was less than satisfactory, this has not been my experience. I was able to get the bridge set up to my liking and it works just fine as far as I'm concerned. Since you mention it, I did do a simple visual inspection of the stock bridge compared to the Schaller I replaced it with and was satisfied that at least to the naked eye, the new one approximated the old one. I hope this helps. Best regards, BH
@@BobbyHoweGuitar Ty for your timely reply!. Very helpful. If anything, the 14 inch would make the action very slightly lower , more so on the G and D strings being that the bridge is slightly flatter. I'm very well considering purchasing one. Btw, I love your playing. Such beautiful chords. Ty sir for your time. If you want, if and when I get one, would you like me to update you on how it goes? Blessings, Jim
@@JHenzly Jim, I'd be happy to receive your reply as to your experience with installing the new bridge. I look forward to hearing about it. Regards, BH
I like your playing. Very clean and nice. I mostly play 80s heavy metal stuff myself so I couldn't play chord melody to save my life, but it's vey nice to listen to. Informative video too! I might look into your tips to make my Goldtop Tribute behave a little better :)
I had tuning issues on a cheap $500 Epiphone 1956 GT reissue w a bigsby. Graphite saddles worked, but went to a roller to “open up” the slightly muffled tone of the graphite saddles. Bone nut also. Good quality set up (done by me) including a cleaning, truss rod adj, intonation, action etc, & it doesn’t budge, even with some heavy bending and some crazy bar work. & 4 of the tuning machines were replaced over the years as they have broken, two are originals. One criticism about multiple string wraps. What difference does the number of wraps make, if 99.9% of the time, the string shears off at the bridge saddle? I’ve had breakage issues before the roller and graphite saddles. The crappy stock saddles would develop a burr on the “flat” side. The string would slide freely through in one direction, and would break on its way back through. Thanks to Brian Setzers guitar tech, Rich Modica (if memory serves me) for the “dressing of the saddles with a nail file trick. Overall an enjoyable video!
I had a Gibson Les Paul with similar tuning problems. The guitar repair shop told me it was common with LP's and showed me how the tuning goes out of tune by putting it on a CRO (an electronic measuring device). They also told me that Gibson were well aware of the problem but dont do anything about it. They then changed the position of the nut by around 2 -3 mm and the problem was solved and the LP stayed in tune ever since. Cheers.
I'm glad your LP stays in tune now. I find their explanation about their solution lacking though. I don't doubt they put their CRO (whatever that is) on the guitar to measure the way the guitar tunes. There is a difference between the guitar never tuning properly in the first place as opposed to the guitar being able to be tuned but not staying in tune. If the guitar was able to be tuned before but would not hold it's tuning, then moving the nut could not have solved the problem. If the guitar was not able to be tuned at all, then I understand about moving the nut. If the guitar could be tuned but would not hold it's tuning then most likely, during their "moving the nut" routine, it was simply glued back into place better than it was before. That's what I see. Cheers right back at ya!
Loose tuners good call! You cant tell when the strings are tight only when you go to change them. Three things solved my tuning issues tighten tuner nuts, stretch new strings and make sure your nut slots are not pinching the strings. If a nut is cut for 10's and you use 9's the 9's will set lower in the nut slots and sometimes pinch. PS: for Tele owners....check that your four neck bolts where it attaches to the body are tight!
Agreed - exactly what my guitar tech told me, tighten everything to spec (including tuners), stretch strings several times tuning upwards, gently file the nut slots especially the centre two on the headstock side where the string angles outwards. I am using 10s - that is what he has set up for. These details are important as is an initial check and setup by someone who knows what they are doing. Then you can maintain it yourself with a little investment of time and care.
I realize you would have mentioned it, if it were the case, but I just want to double check. The schallers line with factory made holes and you did not have to drill, correct?
Hello Ry J, right. I did not drill any new holes. The Schaller tuners simply drop right in and mount exactly the same as the Grovers that I took out. I just want to say also something else to clear up some possible confusion. The Grover's that came with the guitar don't have to be replaced in order for them to work properly. They simply need to be tightened up ... the nut on the front of the headstock and the screw on the back. I stated clearly in the video that I simply do not like the locking-style tuners that come with the guitar (Grovers) or made by any manufacturer, including Schaller. I prefer the non-locking style tuners. If you like the locking style tuners, you can certainly still use them, all that needs to happen is they need to be tightened up and you can make them work. Two points: 1. My position is that I don't like the locking style tuners because of the basic premise upon which they were designed: they make changing strings easier in the event that a player breaks strings. That's the whole reason to have locking style tuners: quick string changes. I don't break strings, I haven't since I was a teenager first learning to put strings on a guitar and broke some because I was learning how to do it. It's been decades since I was a teenager! 2. As stated in the video, the more string that is wound onto the tuning post, the less likely strings will break and the more likely strings will stay in tune. That's my 2-cents and I hope this makes some sense (pun intended, grin). All the best, BH
I just hand tightened the 10 mm screw on my LP with those Kluson replicas, at the G string, which is the problem string. I checked the intonation, and now it's perfect. This string always detunes with bending, and now it's working better. I'll be changing strings soon and will try stabilizing all of the tuners. Thanks, a lot. BTW I love those EMG's in a LP. I want some on a Strat, though, which will be ultimate in a Strat.
Alfred, I'm glad you've found some solutions to your tuning issues. Thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best! BH
I use Hipshot locking tuners with the UMB plates and Graphtech nuts, Ernie Ball strings - tuning problems resolved. Sometimes on the Gibson's, the bridge don't fit tight and it can wobble the strings out of tune. That little bit of play renders the fine adjustment of the saddles nearly useless. Not all Gibson's do this thing but some just do, That's why many people like the ABR style posts that screw into the body without the studs, no wiggle room and tight fitting bridge. A locking bridge is a fix for a wobbly bridge mount.
So, about how long did you play with the original strings anyway? I'm thinking you would have noticed the loose tuner nut & screw issue upon 1st string change ?
I understand why one might think that way but my experiences up to that point had all been with Fenders. I still own and am a fan of Fenders. I didn't expect a premium-name, higher end guitar to have these issues that's why it took longer to find, at least for me. So on the negative side, these guitars had/have these issues. On the positive side, they are easily correctable. Admittedly, there is extra cost involved but when I finally got these issues resolved, it was worth it, at least to me. I have stuck with the Les Pauls because I like the way the body feels comfortable to me when I hold it and the way my LH and RH feel when I play. Part of the motivation for making a video like this one is to help others with my experience who have invested in a Les Paul or other, similar guitars and have problems they would like to resolve. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Thank you for this informative video. In my opinion grovers are better than kluson style when it comes to tuning. Klusons always have some dead spots when tuning and i hate when it happens. Subscribed!
Thanks! No, no work on the nut. There was a time when I thought the strings were "grabbing" at the nut but I came to the realization that they weren't. All the best, BH
I wish I'd seen this prior to buying a String Butler (yet to be fitted) for my GLP. Great informative video, thank you. While I'm here, any experience/comments on the String Butler? Thanks.
Hello morrion00, Thanks for watching my videos! Can you return the String Butler? Is it still in the original package? That's what I'd do. They may even let you return it if it's been opened. I have no experience with the String Butler, I don't see the need. I presume you fixed your problems after watching my video? I hope so. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Thank you for a speedy response. It's unopened, so will try to return. If I can't, there's always eBay. 😊 I haven't tried your fix yet (not even the tightening of originals) as I will definitely change the tuning pegs to the ones you showed. Schaller tuning keys tk 7840-001, if I can find them. Thanks again. Regards, Peter.
@@morrion00 You can still use the locking style tuners, just tighten them. I have one guitar that still has them but I don't particularly like them. Even though they are not my favorites, they can still be made to work if tightened. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Sorry, me again. Just noticed that the Schaller has only one screw for attaching to the back of the head, whereas my GLP has two retaining screws (as per usual I believe). Is the second screw redundant? Yes, I did note to use the original GLP screws when installing. Thanks.
Thanks for the video. I have studio Gibson ( cheaper workhorse) but a great guitar. I use a special wrap on my tuners that lock the string on the tuning post, and my guitar is almost always in tune. Humidity and temperature change might affect it a small amount.
I got mine from Allparts. www.allparts.com/ I don't know if they would work for a 335 or not. Allparts is very helpful over the phone, at least they were when I called them. They can tell you if they have what will work for your guitar or not. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Good helpfull Video! On a Sidenote: These Elixirs are Top Notch. I use exact these too. Nano 9-42. I play them mostly for 3 Months until i change and even then they´re in very good Shape and excellent Tone. Totally recommend these. At the end of the Day they are the cheapest Strings for me, in Relation to how long they feel and sound fresh!
Thanks Lev. I can't really speak to that a lot since I don't really bend strings very much, in fact, little. But as I've said in one of my videos, I took my cue from pedal-steelers who, of course, pull strings all the time, that's the nature of the beast, the pedal steel, that is. Steelers overcome the tendency of strings to break, or at least minimize it by winding as much of the string on the tuning machine post as possible. That's one of the things I've learned from them. I hope this helps and all the best, BH
Hi Tom, thanks for the nice words about the playing and the video. I don't know but off the top of my head I would say no, that is, they're not drop-in direct replacements. Of course, any tuner could be replaced by a different kind but there is the consideration of whether the tuning post fits through into the hole provided (maybe needs to be enlarged), whether or not the small screw holes from the old Klusons will show or not (they might), things like that. You can go to Schaller's website and find blueprint diagrams of the dimensions of their different tuners and you should be able to tell from that. Or, consult a competent luthier. I hope this helps. Good luck with it and best regards. BH
Hmm I always check the saddles for proper intonation if a guitar seems like the tuning key will not hold the string at the right tension, this is when doing the open string compared to the fifth fret tuning. Then put the saddles forward and intonate by moving them backward so the tension increases, limiting slippage.
I think the problem is not the locking pins in general but the grover locking pins concrete. ? schaller has better tuning pegs and therefore does not fail. ?I understand which schaller locking pins would be the holy grail?
it seems that it would save trouble to order a left handed guitar bridge from Shaler and install it reverse, is there any reason you see that wouldn't work? does it change the placement of the roller to close or to far away from properly getting it to tune???
Gerald, yes I do. The locking style tuners will work when tightened properly. As I said in the video, I'm simply not a fan of them. I like the longer tuning posts on the Schaller tuners. I'm not a fan of locking style tuners by any manufacturer. That's just me. All the best, BH
I had problems with the G and D strings but went a different route to solving it, I fitted a String Butler to lessen the angle of the strings as they sit in the nut and return to the tuners I also bought some Nut Sauce although a little pencil graphite also worked for me prior to getting the Nut Sauce
Thanks for your video, Bobby. It is an excellent treatise on tuning issues. I have a question similar to but different from another one asked: if I take a well built Epiphone Les Paul Standard and make the same modifications (pickups, bridge, tuners) would I have a guitar comparable to a higher priced Gibson? Of course this is a hypothetical question but if the answer is “not quite”, then why not? And if the answer is “not at all”, then how close might it be: 80%, 90%, 95%, etc.? I’m looking for your educated opinion based on your experience, if would consider giving it. Thank you!
Hi anpjyt, Interesting question, I'll try to give the best answer I can. By the way, thanks for watching my video and for your nice comments. As far as the Epiphone vs Gibson quality issue, as I understand it, Epi's these days are all made in China. High quality to be sure but I would rather spend my guitar budget money supporting an American guitar company than send it to China. That's just me, I don't hold it against anyone else for making a decision that suits them. I must admit, some of the Epi's I've seen are totally beautiful and I'm sure the playing quality is there and I wouldn't mind owning one but for the reasons I've already given, I'll choose not to spend my money that way. As far as would you have an Epi that was just as high quality as a Gibson if you made the same modifications I recommend in my videos? I'm sure the quality would be every bit as good. I have an Epiphone Les Paul Elitist, body, neck, headstock made at the Fuji plant in Japan, hardware, pickups, bridge, tailpiece, tuners, etc. assembled at the Gibson plant in Nashville: A guitar of the highest quality (heavy, though). The bridge on this guitar mounts differently than the Gibson's I own or any Gibson's I've ever seen. The bridge mounting posts on the Epi screw directly into the body as opposed to the Gibson's which have threaded inserts mounted into the body. You could use a Schaller bridge on the Epi but would have to drill new holes for the threaded inserts, a job I wouldn't do myself, I would take it to a qualified luthier. I hope these answers help. Best of luck in all you do. BH
Hi Jay, I used Schaller's like these ... www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Schaller-M6-Vintage-Tuners-3x3-Tuning-Keys-16-1-Ratio-3L-3R-CHROME-/122311609587?hash=item1c7a570cf3 Thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
Lately I've been having the LEAST amount of windings around the tuning posts (so there is less string to expand/contract). My tuning has never been more stable and I'm always doing 3 semi-tone bends.
Hi Vincent, thanks for your nice words. I simply went to the Schaller website and poked around until I found the set that had the correct dimensions for my guitar: screw hole placement and size, shaft size of the tuner, etc. Their blueprint diagrams are quite accurate. You should be able to find what you need there. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
bobby, great video. i've heard alot of people say that the angle of the D and G string out of the nut to the tuners is the big tuning problem with gibsons. i'm a big string bender and im constantly tuning my 87 les paul standard. it has the gibson deluxe stock tuners. theres a device called the string butler that hooks up to the headstock to correct the angle. any thoughts on that? btw, beautiful tone and playing.
Hi Mark, Thanks for watching my video(s). I really am not a string bender so although I'm aware of the situation you speak of, the D and G strings passing through the nut at an angle, I don't really have tuning issues of the type you suggest. I can understand the situation but once again, I don't bend. You might try some Finger Ease or some stuff called Fast Fret. Loosen each strings and apply on the underside of the strings where they will contact the nut. String Butler might be a good option, I've not tried it but others seem to like it. I hope this helps and all the best, BH
10:00 we were watching as a band and we all started salivating. So good. That sound. What amp? That tone is nice. We have an SG and a J45. Should we do things to them?
Good idea to check the tightness of you tuners. I do this on very string change, even guitars with locking nuts. Another area that helps is to use like Nut sauce, graphite etc on the nut. A badly cut nut or changing string gauges on a guitar can cause tuning stability issues with the nut not being cut for that specific gauge.
@@ozotel Hi, I just called EMG and spoke with one of their techs. I told him I wanted pickups that would give me the cleanest sound possible. He recommended the 60X and 60AX set. My philosophy is that I want to get the guitar to get the cleanest output sound, then if I need effects, I can get them externally with an effects pedal which is exactly how I go about it. I tend to go towards a clean sound overall. I hope this helps. BH
I now have my GraphTech Ratio tuners on my Studio LTD for about six months now, the only thing I've replace on the guitar, and it holds it's tuning forever. Important thing with a Les Paul (with any guitar, but especially with a LP) you have to stretch and stretch your strings many times when you restring or else you will spend your time retuning as you play. And don't be afraid to be aggressive when you do that. The best way is to tune a little above standard, grab each string at about mid length and stretch, retune and stretch till they stop going out of tune.
Absolutely correct, Bsharporbflat. What you described about the Les Pauls is also true for SGs. Aggressive stretching after restringing is essential. If not done, you'll just be spinning your wheels for quite some time. It is also necessary to do even though you may have locking tuners installed because the ball end of the string needs to be firmly seated. BTW, I've never broken a string doing the aggressive stretching.
hey Bobby I have a 2017 les paul Standard and I love the grover locking tuners, I don't have tuning problems but after playing over 50 years i'm probably deaf, I still gig one to three times a week and love how fast I can change my strings,
Hello Robert and thanks for watching my videos. If you can make them work then I think it's fine. I moved from 9's, to 10's, to 11's and I like the 11's best. I tried 12's but it's too much for me. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
I tried doing the B.B.King thing and it didn't work,the break angle on gibson headstocks and the 17 degree pitch of the headstock are the main reason gibsons go out of tune so regularly,PRS and Ibanez have got it right,gibson don't like change so you will always have tuning problems with those guitars.
I have an old Epi Les Paul copy. It - like most 3 +3 guitars, in my opinion - had bad tuning issues, but not the kind of tuners the gentleman in this video had. Anyway, a Tusq nut, and Tusq saddles ended the tuning issues - period. Unless your tuners are bad, 99% of the time strings binding in the nut, on any guitar, is the reason your guitar is going out of tune too much. Oh, and I used to break a lot of strings on my electric guitars, and I use 12's. After I put Tusq saddles on my old SG, and the LP copy I mentioned, I have not broken a single string. They were all breaking at the saddles.
Your experiences and opinions are yours and my experiences and opinions are mine. The videos I made and the opinions expressed were based on my experiences, not yours - period.
Thanks David, I'm glad you like the tone. I'd say it's mostly the pickups. The strings (Elixir's), amp and effects pedal (Digitech Element) all play a part in the tone too, of course. I'd say the Schaller bridge has a similar intonation range, perhaps slightly more, than the original bridge on the guitar. I hope this helps and all the best. BH
Based on e-mails I've received, I want to clear up an area of possible confusion. The points covered in this video are intended to address and help those players who have invested in a Gibson Les Paul but now have a difficult time keeping it in tune. It then goes on to say what can be done about those problems. Some are under the mistaken impression that I'm suggesting they buy the guitar, then make upgrades to the hardware. I myself might do that but at least I'm going into it with the full knowledge of what to expect with a Gibson Les Paul. Some have asked the question, why buy one in the first place if it is known to have issues? The answer for me is that in spite of the need (IMHO) to upgrade the bridge, pickups and tuners, it is an otherwise outstanding guitar. The neck either feels right in your hand or it doesn't. The body either feels right when you hold it or it doesn't. Those factors plus the bound neck and the fact that I want to support a USA company do it for me. I realize what these guitars cost vs imports and USA Fenders but I'm willing to pay it to have what I consider to be the quality in the areas I mentioned. By the way, I have owned many USA Fenders including a customized Tele I now have. If you would like to make civil, rational comments, feel free. Those who post vitriolic, argumentative comments, especially those using foul language will be deleted. Peace. BH
Once I went to locking tuners on my Les Paul and my SG and it helped a ton! I'm a blues rock player and a big bender and now they stay in tune as well as my Strat and Tele. Great video!
Thanks Josey for watching my videos! I'm glad you've found a solution that works for you! All the best, BH
Bobby, agreed, totally. My Epiphone Les Paul stays in tune but just doesn't have that playability & feel like my Gibson Les Paul. My LP has issues with strings 1-3. I always graphite the nut but this time just doesn't seem to alleviate the problem. I've ordered some Big Bends Nut Sauce. If problem persists, I'll replace the nut or have it refiled. The Grover tuners seem ok...
John564 Holloway - Some ppl seem to have good luck with those String Butlers. Looks like something i'd like to try in the future, but on my acoustic that has a headstock similar to the Les Paul.
Not meaning to argue, I just disagree. I should be allowed to post the reasons I have. We do not have to agree to be able to make valid points that could be informative or educational to your viewers. A good discussion has various viewpoints that conflict at times and should stay posted instead of deleting comments you do not agree with.
Lovely sound to those pickups, kind of reminds me of the chime Les Paul originally had in mind
A 6000 dollar guitar shouldn't have tuning issues.
I get the point but that is not six thousand dollars.. that standard is about two-ish
Wtf makes you think this guitar is 6 grand lol
I’ve bought Gibson Les Pauls for under a $1000 and even as low as $600
@@Iheartdgd that's not the point.
The point is that it should stay in tune
Richard Díaz I agree, especially after all this time. I don’t have this problem too often though. Obviously 2 guitars will be different, but I feel like sometimes people over exaggerate. Or just need to stretch their strings lol.
A good set of locking tuners is a nice upgrade though.
That 1st chord melody, wow. The tone! Nice touch too.
Thanks Stan! There's more where that comes from. If you want further details, I look forward to hearing from you. All my best to you and yours. BH
Over my 55+ years of playing, performing, and teaching, I've found that 99.9% of tuning "instabilities" and problems can be alleviated by properly wrapping the strings at the pegs, and by properly tuning. First, if you don't have locking tuners, run your new string thru the tuner hole, then bring it 1/2 way around the peg and put it under the string where it enters the peg hole, in the same direction as the string is to be wound. Next, pull it up so that it becomes locked under the string when it is tuned up. Leave no more than about two winds when the string is tuned to pitch (I usually leave around one wind). Extra winds leave extra room for string settling and slippage. NEXT: When you tune, first tune all strings to approximate pitch, and give each string a good pull, then re-tune to approximate pitch again. Now, tune each string individually, first tuning to pitch, then pulling on it and re-tuning it until it stays in tune after pulling on it. Do this EVERY SINGLE TIME you tune, NOT just when you put new strings on your guitar!! There ARE some things that will cause tuning headaches, such as temperature fluxuations and sun/shadow while playing an outdoor show, and humidity variations, but this will keep you in tune as well as possible. I've found that tuning problems are VERY SELDOM actually hardware problems, although once in a while, (as seen with the loose tuners in Bobby's video) there can be a mechanical problem, but problems like that are due to poor maintenance rather than actual hardware malfunctions. BTW, I have locking tuners on most of my guitars and love them, and I play 6-8 shows a month average, so MUST have them in tune!!
Kevin, I agree with much of what you said although I differ with you on a couple of points but here is the thing: I appreciate you being civil and explaining your position from what you see as your logical point of view. That's the way it should be. Some people are just downright nasty and furthermore, I can show them the faults in their logic but I don't keep their vitriol on my pages, I just delete them. If a person has an experience or opinion different from mine, that's OK, as long as they keep it civil. Blessings upon you and yours. BH
Kevin thank you for leaving this method and technique as a comment I've come across House video before in the past but just didn't have the patience to watch it. I'm a Les Paul affection Auto have had tuning problems particularly with one Les Paul that I have and thought about in the past even when I was a kid about the idea of wrapping the strings properly because if you don't do it the correct way you leave slippage. You're a guitar teacher you obviously have mountains of experience compared to me and to hear this from a professional is wait to see. I do have another question and I'd like to ask your opinion but it doesn't necessarily pertain to Les Paul's and I don't want to bunk up is video with unrelated stuff would you mind e-mailing me back when you get the opportunity please my email is ssabp8@gmail.com. this too is a tuning issue but it's related to another guitar that I just picked up and I would like to have your opinion please I would greatly appreciate it when you get the opportunity
I’ve found the modern tuning posts very taxing to get right - I did research and found this way I like - thread the end then - keeping as much tension on the string as you can manage - do one normal turn around ABOVE the threaded string - the second turn should go UNDER so you sandwich the threaded string - and all remaining turns follow under that one. I don’t think it matters if the string isn’t sandwiched touching both winds around the post as sometime happens - because after three turns around the post - it’s super tight on the post anyway - like the horses were tied up in westerns hehe. This style you have the string making full contact with the post on each wind - no special loops or locks - and you can wind all of your selected string length all the way down the post which gives a nice steep break angle. Keeping tension while winding is key to this.
The only problem I still haven’t solved with this is the threaded short end of the string- can be sharp and is exposed - which is why vintage klusons style is a much better design imo.
kevin, i would like someone to traslate what you explain in spanish since my gibson les paul is rubbish
I appreciate your videos, thanks. i bought a cheap gold les paul and getting ready to replace all mechanisms. I''ll look for yiur videos and learn from them. I'm new at this. I love guitars.
@@BobbyHoweGuitar
I use "Big bends nut sauce" in the nut slots and on the contact points at the saddle. It helped my tuning issues tremendously!
Just ordered some...see if it helps my quirky SG...that sucker will not stay in tune!
Ew Yall are disgustin!
It's expensive but it will.....put it on the bridge saddles too.
I use graphite and hoppes #9 oil......get a fine metal file and a pencil.... make grapite powder....add a couple drops of Hoppes #9 with it. (can get it in the gun section of walmart or a gun store). It will be like a thin mud. Works as good but will make a white nut a little black from the lead.
Tera Pan Oh shut up.
Lub on non whammy guitar is a snake oil rip off. If ya nut is properly filed there is no need for that goop. If ya nut isnt filed correctly lub isnt going to help the situation and if you file your nut correctly lub is a waste of money.
Man, I love UA-cam. So much great information on here. Thank you for making a video about this! I thought I was the only one with this tuning problem ( new player here). Keep it going , brother!
Thanks Angel for your nice words, for watching my videos and please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
Always tune-up to pitch after you set the strings in the top nut. Joe Walsh is a genius with setting up guitars.
i saw that 2 ;he's a true boss bad ass
I watched that video too. My set up came out perfect!
Thank you for your information. I've had a different experience. I have a 1969 SG Standard with engraved Vibrola tailpiece, of which I am the original owner. To this day, it is my mainstay instrument of the guitars I own. Early on, I became aware of tuning issues with it, particularly mostly with the G string (it's an otherwise superb instrument). I tolerated its tuning issues for decades, but, as I grew more experienced and wise, I decided to do something about it. I consulted various UA-cam videos on the topic, and spoken with several luthiers, to analyze the issue with this guitar.
Gibson has created very few guitar models that have tuners only on one side of the headstock. Most are 3L & 3R. Because of this, there is a lateral break angle behind the nut to the left, for the A & D strings, and a lateral break angle behind the nut to the right, for the G & B strings (both E strings are straight pull behind the nut). Complicating this is the drop angle of the headstock relative to the plane of the neck. I have solved the tuning issues virtually completely by doing 2 things: replacing the tuning machines with Sperzel locking tuners (which are similar to the Grovers you eschew), and installing a String Butler on the headstock, mounted just above the truss rod cover, which changes those 4 strings' break angle to straight pull, up to their roller bearing pivot points (then, on to their respective tuning posts: no sharp angles). Those two mods have eliminated tuning issues and have made tuning extraordinarily stable. I do not need to wind several coils of string onto the tuning posts; 3/4s of 1 wind (or less) around the posts are sufficient, which also eliminates the potential of the strings going out of tune due to several winds gradually settling in under string tension against the tuning posts, resulting in the tuning going flat. It is also of paramount importance that after changing strings and bringing them up to pitch, that the strings be manually stretched and returned to pitch several times, until it becomes apparent that the tuning remains stable. This is not to say that the guitar never goes out of tune; just that the degree of tuning variance is slight (by cents of pitch) when/if it does.
Stan the Blues Man, I'm glad you've found some solutions that work for you. Best regards, BH
I had an SG in roughly the same hue/shade of green. I also loved it.
Great! Glad to hear it!
Great video, Bobby! Your Les Paul sounds amazingly full and balanced tonally. It's easy to hear that the changes you've made are the
reason. Thank you!
Thanks videonut! I appreciate your nice words and glad that you liked the video. All the best to you and yours! BH
With my Les Paul, I replaced my tuners with Grover Roto-Grips (I think the ones you originally replaced) and they eliminated my tuning issues. I tend to play heavier riffs so you can imagine the nightmare i was having. I like seeing how other players correct their problems. Thanks for sharing.
Hello lathumpipe, thanks for your note. Glad you've found a solution that works for you. All the best, BH
I hear this often about Gibson Les Paul’s. I’ve been playing for over 40 years and had a few Les Pauls through the years. I’ve never had any major issues with them staying in tune.
This video and another I just watched helped my tuning issues greatly. The most useful for me from this video, was realizing how loose the tuner screws and nuts were on my almost new Les Paul. Even with the standard (non locking) Grover tuners, just reasonably tightening the screws on the back of the headstock (some were simply not in all the way), and tightening the nuts on the front of the headstock reasonably snug. I used some nut and saddle lube also. I bend lot and I went from having tuning issues to really no issue at all with about 30 minutes work. Thanks for your part in this solution. The answer was really just a little maintenance.
Hi Bob, thanks for your note. The situation of yours becoming totally resolved was the exact thing I was trying to convey. You worked it out very much in accordance with what I learned from my experience. I am so glad that you fixed your tuning issues and that I could play a small part in it. All the best, BH
It’s usually the g and the d strings that go out of tune reason being the angle that those strings lead out to the tunners. My sullution is to lube the nut and replace the tunners with some locking tunners.
I like the way he checks his tuning, looks way cooler than when I do it!
We have here the Bob Ross of solving tuning problems on Les Paul models. Bobby took Gibson’s happy accident and made a happy cloud, all while relaxing you with the friendly tone of his soft voice. Thanks Bobby “Ross”!
Thanks Joshua! All the best, BH
Excellent! Really solid thoughtful and practical advice from a great player. The little details are priceless.
Thanks Richard! All the best! BH
Simple, informative, effective. Very useful and generous time and explanations Bobby.. Definitely beneficial.
Thats so beautiful when you were like "I dont do much bends....i do this..." = and it was awesome
Me too: I also wrap as many windings on the tuning posts as possible. It has few advantages, and no disadvantage: the strings are leaving the post on the very round part near the mounting nut- so less breakage there. Also the sound will be tighter, because of different vibration of the post.
I can not relate to the „rule“ of two wounds per tuner- post, because of slippage. It makes no sense to me. Why not half wound? Because it slips?Well, it seams that 1.5 wounds more are not slipping anymore. So, if I wind 10 times, the first 8.5 windings won‘t move eighter...☺️ I doubt very much that there could happen a stretch of the strings..., if the friction is high enough to counteract slippage, there can not happen any stretching.
I also found that tightening (not overdoing) the little screws on the end of the tuning knobs help stabilizing the worm gear inside the tuner, due friction.
I wrap atleast three windings on the posts, I stretch them, and leave the tuning one note high until ready to play, then I retune, with backing off 1/2 note, and bringing back into tune, so I don't normally have problems!
Your playing is BEAUTIFUL. Just beautiful.
Thanks Jimi and thanks for watching my videos! All the best, BH
Very good, informative video. Thou I feel $ 2000 + guitar should stay in tune well.
Tuning stability has to do with the set-up.
@@S3nna_12 And with the nut. Shitty nut = guitar that don't stay in tune
@@S3nna_12 well actually in the case of the les Paul, it is primarily the headstock design that desperately needs an update.
The angle and the string spread is the real issue. Ideally strings should go straight through the nut
Kjarthan Mørkeberg Reece Thank you. Finally someone not talking this “a 2k guitar should stay in tune” pointless drivel. Gibson designed a headstock that looks great before the science of what you are talking about was understood. If they changed the headstock some people might be happy that it stays in tune better, but the company weighs that versus the concern that people will revolt against it and freak out like with New Coke.
@@TheTMschannel headstock is fine as it is, does not need ‘updating’ a proper set up and the tuning is as stable as it needs to be.
You are correct sir...all the vibration loosens EVERYTHING on the guitar...after snugging everything up, i had to have a bone nut put on cuz i had severe binding at the nut...once the nut got right and everything was snug, i can bend forever...it stays in tune fantastic....great vid brother!!!
Thanks Larry! Your comments mean a lot to me, especially at this time! All blessings upon you and yours! BH
I replaced the factory nut on one of my Gibson Les Paul Studio guitars with a custom fitted brass nut and I noticed a big difference with the guitar staying in tune. I also replaced the factory Gibson deluxe tuning machineheads of that same guitar and replaced them with Grover tuning machineheads... Those two modification did wonders for that guitar. I may have a go with a different bridge in the future... But right now that guitar sounds great and it finally stays in tune! Right now I own five Gibson Les Paul guitars. One 1960 classic, three Studio guitars and one Custom. My Classic plays the best and I've had zero issues with it since I swapped the factory machineheads with the Grover machineheads. My Custom is the "problem child"... It won't stay in tune and I have had it set up with a professional guitar tech and that helped a lot... I just don't want to modify my Custom at the moment. I enjoyed watching this! Thanks for sharing! Tom Lloyd
Thanks Tom for your nice words and for watching my videos! Sounds like you've come up with some solutions that are working for you! Keep up the good work! All the best, BH
thank you for taking the time... loved your discussion
Thanks Michael. Thanks for watching my videos. Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
String butlers fixes it for $50.00. It changes the severe bend of the strings at the head and straightens the string pitch and then reduces the amount of tuning your constantly doing. You can get black clear or gold tone. Works everytime.
Ugly though.
I bought the Schaller Tuneomatic Roller Bridge, without changing the original Groover locking tunners, it works really really good. The playability is much better, the sound is clearer to my ears and it stays in tune. Great. Thanks Bobby.
Great! I'm glad it worked out well for you! BH
Thankyou for taking the time sir very informative I've been playing a long time and had many guitars over the years including Les Pauls in the end Ive built my own from scratch it suits me better than anything I've ever had and paid fortunes for. But y'know what I built it as a Les Paul and used your tips to make sure I have the best guitar for me and one that stays in tune! God bless you Bobby
Thanks Spannerman! I'm glad you like it! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
Hi....great video! What is the Schaller part numbers for the Tuning Machines and Roller Bridge you used? Thanks
Thanks Steve! Glad you liked the video. Here are a couple of links that should have the info you want. Notice that now Schaller offers the bridge in either configuration, no need for a person to have to change it around. Thanks for watching my videos and all the best.
schaller.info/en/bridges/328/stm
www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/All_Hardware_and_Parts_by_Instrument/Electric_Guitar_Parts/Electric_Guitar_Bridges_and_Tailpieces/Tune-o-matic_Bridges/Schaller_Roller_Bridge.html
TK 7840-001 Schaller Keys 3X3 Nickel
www.allparts.com/products/tk-7840-schaller-grover-style-3x3-keys
@Dre180 Hi Dre 180, I'm not sure what to say about that. I provided an All Parts link just as a convenience. The numbers of the exact parts I used were shown in the video. I suppose the price could have changed between then and now but $180 seems to me to be excessive. I only laid out about $70 for the ones I got. Check the numbers on the box I showed in the video and see if you can find what you need that way. I hope this has been helpful. All the best, BH
Very helpful video. I think the tuning problems mainly stem from the headstock design, where the D and G strings have a sharp bend to get to the tuning peg. These are the 2 strings that go out of tune and also break the most frequently. If you don't mind spoiling the historical esthetic, having a luthier redrill and mount the tuning pegs in a PRS or Ernie Ball design should solve the problem as well. IMHO.
Thanks, I'm glad you like the video. All the best, BH
@red_array I've fixed my problems without a string butler.
I have a Les Paul Custom shop that's completely stock. It stays in tune like you wouldn't believe. A luthier buddy of mine says the 6/6 nylon nut they use is a big part of that. The material is super slick and dense. Notoriously hard to cut and shape but will practically last forever.
Sorry this is so late but thanks for your comments. Thanks also for watching and liking my videos and for subscribing to my channel. All the best, BH
Have you checked out the String Butler? It helps straighten the strings in the nut slot
It'll cost a lot less than changing the bridge and tuners too.
SB didn't solve my tuning problem....getting rid of the Grover's did....
do you have your guitar 🎸 best at 5/64 low E and high E to 4/64 action ?
my les pauls stay in tune perfectly. I set mine up somewhat simular to yours. I keep the tension tight across the neck and it does help keep the tuning better. so does the tuning keys being grover.
Ty!! Question Sir: How high are those new tuning posts? Did they alter the string break angle behind the nut? For example, the string tighter in nut slot ? Some ppl claim that if the post are shorter resulting in tighter break angle, the strings may feel different, stiffer. I'm very interested in upgrading my old standard Grovers. Thank you for your time and videos. Blessings, Jim.
You're welcome! The posts are about twice as high as the locking Grovers. One can get a higher angle on these type of tuners by winding more of the string on the post and having more of the string wound on the post facilitates less string breakage. Best wishes!
Ty for your reply! At your convenience sir could you do me a huge favor before I order? Could you measure how high those tuning posts are that you are referring to? And the exact model of tuners? Yours may not be available currently. At least ill know the specs. As you stated, Tuners definitely make a huge difference. I put my old sperzels on and those posts are very short. As a result, the strings had a much stiffer feel. I'm assuming due to the increased break angle from nut. My 30+ year old standard Govers were much higher yielding better feel but they are worn out. Thank you for your time!! Blessings, Jim
Thanks a lot! You are my hero!
I tried to solve the tuning issue of my Gibson. It took me weeks and all the other Videos and forums couldn't help me. They all talked about the bullshit of "its the bridge" and "its the saddle" and IT WAS NOT! I also have an expensive Gibson and couldnt imagine that these parts were of a bad quality.
All 6 tuners were loose. The more the string got out of tune, the more loose was the tuner. Its a simple correlation.
BTW: the tuners of my Strat were a little bit loose, too.
Like some others already said: it takes half an hour time and afterwards you will be happy!
Hello RPJH91, Thanks for you nice note! You are smarter than most because you simply took the advice put forth in the video and applied it with what we both know was the expected results. Most players that write me are reasonable, wonderful people but I have had a few that have said some nasty things about me and what I say. Once again, you are smarter than most. Thanks for being a reasonable person! All the best, happy playing! BH
@@BobbyHoweGuitar You're welcome! Great Guy, great channel. Keep goin!
I have a 1978 Les Paul Standard that I’ve always used 8 gage string on it. Recently I’ve gone to 9s and goes out of tune quickly. So I widened the slots on the nut and applied some lubricant to the nut slots, problem solved. The main issue with tuning stability is the angle of the d and g strings to the tuning pegs, it’s a inherent problem with all guitars with 3x3 head stocks. Thanks for the video I will be getting a roller bridge.
Thanks Bobby. You explained it with simple mechanical logic and added examples to your explanations. Schallers are seen commonly on many acoustics. I always wondered why they weren't more common on electrics.
A lot of guys I see complaining about tuning on LPs seem to coincidentally use Grovers yet they all brag on their Grovers..
Yes, I know. The Schallers have worked out well for me. All the best to you and yours, BH
LOVE that Green Machine. A beauty!
Thanks Jeffrey!
I do this 1 string at a time usually from the bottom E 1st, after removing that string. Using a sharp graphite pencil, graphite tail piece holes, Bridge slots, nut slots, and holes of tuning pegs. 2. Thread string through calculating 3 winds on tuning peg. Bend string on tuning peg so it holds, then hold string taught as it winds down. 4. tune string, then lightly pull string to set the string, and recheck it's tuning. Repeat step 4 until the string holds it's tune after a pull test. 5. Repeat this process for the rest of your strings until all are done. 6. Re check the tune and retune if needed. If you use cliche's and other bends or whammy bar, the guitar should hold a good tune even when stretched. This method sets the strings coil around the tuning pegs. While "dry" lubricating the areas the string passes through. Your local guitar shop may carry liquid graphite. I do this to all my guitars. The 3 winds on the tuning peg isn't a must have 1 less or 1 more won't hurt anything. They also make a string stretcher tool but, "I've never used it from fear of breaking a string" Hope this makes better sense.
Yeah, I guess if you want to go to all that trouble. My guitar stays in tune with far less work than that.
Thanks for the informative video. Nice chord melody BTW.
I’m sure the Schallers are great tuners, but I still have a question. How did the original Grover tuners do after tightening them up correctly?
Did you notice an improvement from that?
Brian, thanks for your question. One thing I thought I made clear in the video, based on comments I've received, perhaps I didn't ... The Grover locking tuners, once tightened, hold tuning just fine ... I said in the video that I didn't like the locking tuners because of the whole idea behind them. They are purposely designed with shorter tuning posts. They are designed to allow the locking pin in the center of the post to contact the string and lock it into place, supposedly. The locking knurled nut on the rear of the tuner controls this. I disagree with this way of doing things. The idea, supposedly, is to allow people to change strings faster if they break them while playing, i.e., during a performance. I said in the video that winding more of the string around the tuning post (longer tuning posts with the non-locking tuners) helps to lessen string breakage and maintain tuning. I believe that the center pin in the locking tuners weakens the string by partially compressing it and thereby contributes to string breakage. As far as I can remember, I've never broken a string unless it was defective from manufacture. I simply don't break guitar strings. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Thanks for the feedback! I only asked because I am attempting to diagnose a tuning stability problem with a recent purchase of my own. I’m not even sure the tuners are the problem or not because it has some other issues that could be causing tuning instability too.
It’s a really cheap pawn shop orphan (not an nice expensive guitar like yours!) so I’m trying to make it playable while spending as little as possible in the process!
@@BrianGay57 Good luck, let me know how it goes! All the best, BH
I'd also recommend a String Butler. I put one on my old LP and it's done wonders to hold that dreaded G string in tune. Rarely do I have to make adjustments now and they're minor ones at that when I do. It's also a more affordable option to new tuners or a bridge.
I’ve done the very same thing although I’ve swapped out an out the Ratio Tuners, the roller bridge, an the pickups i put on are the Seymour Duncan Phat P-90’s. Although I had PAF pickups I’ve always preferred P-90’s and these will stand up to any humbucker
My Benton has some Chinese tuning machines and they hold tune preety well, I play really aggressive, heavy handed. Only thing that I did is that I removed plastic nut and put Brass one in.
Just lube it once in a one or two week and it will work.
Also I lock strings down with special wrapping.
Its bone in a Harley Benton
@@feracastracamping9061 Nut is made of plastic on my SC-500. I think that is same situation on SC-450/400 series. SC 550 have bone I think
or PRETTY...to use the traditional spelling...
Very informative! Nice sound as well!
Thanks Jim! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
Excellent video! Chock full of info. Thank you for going through all the trouble and then posting it here.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching! Please subscribe! All the best, BH.
I agree: super good tone! Would you tell us amp/speaker used? Thx!
Thanks! Amp is one that is old, not made anymore ... Peavey XR600F powered mixer ... speakers are homebrew ... I hope this helps ... thanks for watching and liking my videos and for subscribing to my channel ... Bobby H.
@@BobbyHoweGuitar Yes, thx. I used a Peavey dual 10 band PA amp from that period with 15's and this reminded me of that. I'm thinking of going back to that setup.
@@HappyGeneRC Great! I hope it works out for you! All the best, BH
hi can you please post links to the upgraded parts?
The only guitars I have which stay in tune forever are my ibanez with floating zero edge, variax standard and my vester super strat. All my other guitars will go out of tune occasionally.
shaller were always the best..I had them on my guitars, and I can play whatevver, let the guitar sit 2 weeks and it will be in tune..
Works for me! Thanks Hal!
On my LP I did - roller bridge, compensated nut, with graphite pencil rubbed in the slots, and locking tuners (with minimal wrap). Almost did the trick, but is much better. I would love to be able to move the D and G tuners in and up slightly to account for the break angle that the strings are at.
Roller bridge and top tuners are very good, but what you could also do is to fit a String Butler. Your problem will be solved. The G string on my Gibson SG would go sharp. After I installed Hipshot locking tuners and a String Butler, the G string now stays in tune. I left the nut as is. BTW, I like the green LP, reminds me of Francis Rossi's green Tele. Love to hear your style of chord playing with Seymour Duncan 59 pickups in that LP.
I had the string Butler, and it didn’t do a bit of difference on my last ball traditional. Ended up selling it. Going to invest and get new tuners.
Excellent. And that guitar sounds fabulous. A pleasure to watch your hands. Very... what’s the word... elegant. Fluid.
Thanks Richard. More videos coming. Thanks, in advance, for watching them. All the best, BH
Ty for your videos! Very helpful. I have a question for you sir. Did the 14 inch radius of the Schallers roller bridges affect much of the feel and tuning due to the 12 inch radius on the Les Paul's? Thank you for your time. Jim
Jim, thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! As far as the radii of the neck vs. the bridge, I simply relied on the reputation of precise German engineering when they stated in their literature that this bridge was a drop-in replacement for a Gibson Les Paul bridge. I didn't question it. As far as having an effect that was less than satisfactory, this has not been my experience. I was able to get the bridge set up to my liking and it works just fine as far as I'm concerned. Since you mention it, I did do a simple visual inspection of the stock bridge compared to the Schaller I replaced it with and was satisfied that at least to the naked eye, the new one approximated the old one. I hope this helps. Best regards, BH
@@BobbyHoweGuitar Ty for your timely reply!. Very helpful. If anything, the 14 inch would make the action very slightly lower , more so on the G and D strings being that the bridge is slightly flatter. I'm very well considering purchasing one. Btw, I love your playing. Such beautiful chords. Ty sir for your time. If you want, if and when I get one, would you like me to update you on how it goes? Blessings, Jim
@@JHenzly Jim, I'd be happy to receive your reply as to your experience with installing the new bridge. I look forward to hearing about it. Regards, BH
I like your playing. Very clean and nice. I mostly play 80s heavy metal stuff myself so I couldn't play chord melody to save my life, but it's vey nice to listen to. Informative video too! I might look into your tips to make my Goldtop Tribute behave a little better :)
Thanks Mats. All the best from my house to yours. BH
Thank You! i watched every Movie on NetFlix, Amazon, Hulu, etc, But i could watch your Video all day long.. as a Guitar Buddy
Thanks! It is appreciated more than you know! Peace! BH
I had tuning issues on a cheap $500 Epiphone 1956 GT reissue w a bigsby. Graphite saddles worked, but went to a roller to “open up” the slightly muffled tone of the graphite saddles. Bone nut also. Good quality set up (done by me) including a cleaning, truss rod adj, intonation, action etc, & it doesn’t budge, even with some heavy bending and some crazy bar work. & 4 of the tuning machines were replaced over the years as they have broken, two are originals. One criticism about multiple string wraps. What difference does the number of wraps make, if 99.9% of the time, the string shears off at the bridge saddle? I’ve had breakage issues before the roller and graphite saddles. The crappy stock saddles would develop a burr on the “flat” side. The string would slide freely through in one direction, and would break on its way back through. Thanks to Brian Setzers guitar tech, Rich Modica (if memory serves me) for the “dressing of the saddles with a nail file trick. Overall an enjoyable video!
I had a Gibson Les Paul with similar tuning problems. The guitar repair shop told me it was common with LP's and showed me how the tuning goes out of tune by putting it on a CRO (an electronic measuring device). They also told me that Gibson were well aware of the problem but dont do anything about it. They then changed the position of the nut by around 2 -3 mm and the problem was solved and the LP stayed in tune ever since. Cheers.
I'm glad your LP stays in tune now. I find their explanation about their solution lacking though. I don't doubt they put their CRO (whatever that is) on the guitar to measure the way the guitar tunes. There is a difference between the guitar never tuning properly in the first place as opposed to the guitar being able to be tuned but not staying in tune. If the guitar was able to be tuned before but would not hold it's tuning, then moving the nut could not have solved the problem. If the guitar was not able to be tuned at all, then I understand about moving the nut. If the guitar could be tuned but would not hold it's tuning then most likely, during their "moving the nut" routine, it was simply glued back into place better than it was before. That's what I see. Cheers right back at ya!
Beautiful guitars ! And you have a beautiful technique - tone sustain and chord change ,- 🥰
Interesting info, and really NICE playing! Great tone, too!
Thanks John!
Loose tuners good call! You cant tell when the strings are tight only when you go to change them. Three things solved my tuning issues tighten tuner nuts, stretch new strings and make sure your nut slots are not pinching the strings. If a nut is cut for 10's and you use 9's the 9's will set lower in the nut slots and sometimes pinch.
PS: for Tele owners....check that your four neck bolts where it attaches to the body are tight!
Agreed - exactly what my guitar tech told me, tighten everything to spec (including tuners), stretch strings several times tuning upwards, gently file the nut slots especially the centre two on the headstock side where the string angles outwards. I am using 10s - that is what he has set up for. These details are important as is an initial check and setup by someone who knows what they are doing. Then you can maintain it yourself with a little investment of time and care.
I realize you would have mentioned it, if it were the case, but I just want to double check. The schallers line with factory made holes and you did not have to drill, correct?
Hello Ry J, right. I did not drill any new holes. The Schaller tuners simply drop right in and mount exactly the same as the Grovers that I took out. I just want to say also something else to clear up some possible confusion. The Grover's that came with the guitar don't have to be replaced in order for them to work properly. They simply need to be tightened up ... the nut on the front of the headstock and the screw on the back. I stated clearly in the video that I simply do not like the locking-style tuners that come with the guitar (Grovers) or made by any manufacturer, including Schaller. I prefer the non-locking style tuners. If you like the locking style tuners, you can certainly still use them, all that needs to happen is they need to be tightened up and you can make them work. Two points: 1. My position is that I don't like the locking style tuners because of the basic premise upon which they were designed: they make changing strings easier in the event that a player breaks strings. That's the whole reason to have locking style tuners: quick string changes. I don't break strings, I haven't since I was a teenager first learning to put strings on a guitar and broke some because I was learning how to do it. It's been decades since I was a teenager! 2. As stated in the video, the more string that is wound onto the tuning post, the less likely strings will break and the more likely strings will stay in tune. That's my 2-cents and I hope this makes some sense (pun intended, grin). All the best, BH
I just hand tightened the 10 mm screw on my LP with those Kluson replicas, at the G string, which is the problem string. I checked the intonation, and now it's perfect. This string always detunes with bending, and now it's working better. I'll be changing strings soon and will try stabilizing all of the tuners. Thanks, a lot. BTW I love those EMG's in a LP. I want some on a Strat, though, which will be ultimate in a Strat.
Alfred, I'm glad you've found some solutions to your tuning issues. Thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best! BH
love the sound of those pickups. Can you please tell me what model they are and what you have for wiring/pots?
Thanks! Those are the EMG 60X and 60AX pickup set. You can see the video about them here ... ua-cam.com/video/JyhShenU4q8/v-deo.html
Gorgeous tone!
I use Hipshot locking tuners with the UMB plates and Graphtech nuts, Ernie Ball strings - tuning problems resolved. Sometimes on the Gibson's, the bridge don't fit tight and it can wobble the strings out of tune. That little bit of play renders the fine adjustment of the saddles nearly useless. Not all Gibson's do this thing but some just do, That's why many people like the ABR style posts that screw into the body without the studs, no wiggle room and tight fitting bridge. A locking bridge is a fix for a wobbly bridge mount.
So, about how long did you play with the original strings anyway? I'm thinking you would have noticed the loose tuner nut & screw issue upon 1st string change ?
I understand why one might think that way but my experiences up to that point had all been with Fenders. I still own and am a fan of Fenders. I didn't expect a premium-name, higher end guitar to have these issues that's why it took longer to find, at least for me. So on the negative side, these guitars had/have these issues. On the positive side, they are easily correctable. Admittedly, there is extra cost involved but when I finally got these issues resolved, it was worth it, at least to me. I have stuck with the Les Pauls because I like the way the body feels comfortable to me when I hold it and the way my LH and RH feel when I play. Part of the motivation for making a video like this one is to help others with my experience who have invested in a Les Paul or other, similar guitars and have problems they would like to resolve. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Thank you for this informative video. In my opinion grovers are better than kluson style when it comes to tuning. Klusons always have some dead spots when tuning and i hate when it happens.
Subscribed!
Thanks Katay! I agree with you. Never was a fan of Kluson tuners. All the best, BH
Great video. Great playing, too. Have you had to do any work on the nut?
Thanks! No, no work on the nut. There was a time when I thought the strings were "grabbing" at the nut but I came to the realization that they weren't. All the best, BH
Replaced the bone nut in my Les Paul Custom with a GraphTech TUSQ XL nut and haven't had any tuning issues (D&G) since.
Sounds good! Best regards, BH
I wish I'd seen this prior to buying a String Butler (yet to be fitted) for my GLP. Great informative video, thank you.
While I'm here, any experience/comments on the String Butler? Thanks.
Hello morrion00, Thanks for watching my videos! Can you return the String Butler? Is it still in the original package? That's what I'd do. They may even let you return it if it's been opened. I have no experience with the String Butler, I don't see the need. I presume you fixed your problems after watching my video? I hope so. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Thank you for a speedy response. It's unopened, so will try to return. If I can't, there's always eBay. 😊
I haven't tried your fix yet (not even the tightening of originals) as I will definitely change the tuning pegs to the ones you showed. Schaller tuning keys tk 7840-001, if I can find them. Thanks again. Regards, Peter.
@@morrion00 You can still use the locking style tuners, just tighten them. I have one guitar that still has them but I don't particularly like them. Even though they are not my favorites, they can still be made to work if tightened. All the best, BH
Bobby Howe Many thanks again. Now to recharge my phone. Spent most of the morning watching your videos. 😁
Bobby Howe Sorry, me again. Just noticed that the Schaller has only one screw for attaching to the back of the head, whereas my GLP has two retaining screws (as per usual I believe). Is the second screw redundant? Yes, I did note to use the original GLP screws when installing. Thanks.
Thanks for the video. I have studio Gibson ( cheaper workhorse) but a great guitar. I use a special wrap on my tuners that lock the string on the tuning post, and my guitar is almost always in tune. Humidity and temperature change might affect it a small amount.
Beautiful playing! Smooth and melodically fluid
Thanks Doug for watching my videos! Blessings upon you and yours! BH
Bobby do you have a link for your specific Schaller tuners you are referring to and would they also work on a 335 style headstalk? Thank you.
I got mine from Allparts. www.allparts.com/
I don't know if they would work for a 335 or not. Allparts is very helpful over the phone, at least they were when I called them. They can tell you if they have what will work for your guitar or not. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
Good helpfull Video! On a Sidenote: These Elixirs are Top Notch. I use exact these too. Nano 9-42. I play them mostly for 3 Months until i change and even then they´re in very good Shape and excellent Tone. Totally recommend these. At the end of the Day they are the cheapest Strings for me, in Relation to how long they feel and sound fresh!
Thanks! I agree totally about the Elixir's. They've been the best value for me as well.
Thanks sir. Using non-locking didn't create issues for guys pulling string a lot? sorry, I'm new to guitars
Thanks Lev. I can't really speak to that a lot since I don't really bend strings very much, in fact, little. But as I've said in one of my videos, I took my cue from pedal-steelers who, of course, pull strings all the time, that's the nature of the beast, the pedal steel, that is. Steelers overcome the tendency of strings to break, or at least minimize it by winding as much of the string on the tuning machine post as possible. That's one of the things I've learned from them. I hope this helps and all the best, BH
Hi. Nice video!
But wich kind of Schaller tuners is it? M6 or what`s the model name?
Do you think those tuners would fit a les paul classic reissue 2005 with kluson tuners ? Great video and nice playing too
Hi Tom, thanks for the nice words about the playing and the video. I don't know but off the top of my head I would say no, that is, they're not drop-in direct replacements. Of course, any tuner could be replaced by a different kind but there is the consideration of whether the tuning post fits through into the hole provided (maybe needs to be enlarged), whether or not the small screw holes from the old Klusons will show or not (they might), things like that. You can go to Schaller's website and find blueprint diagrams of the dimensions of their different tuners and you should be able to tell from that. Or, consult a competent luthier. I hope this helps. Good luck with it and best regards. BH
@@BobbyHoweGuitar Thanks for your help. I enjoyed your video and the great playing didn't hurt the experience either. Cheers
Thanks Tom!
Hmm I always check the saddles for proper intonation if a guitar seems like the tuning key will not hold the string at the right tension, this is when doing the open string compared to the fifth fret tuning. Then put the saddles forward and intonate by moving them backward so the tension increases, limiting slippage.
He could be the voice actor for Chris in family guy
I think the problem is not the locking pins in general but the grover locking pins concrete. ? schaller has better tuning pegs and therefore does not fail. ?I understand which schaller locking pins would be the holy grail?
it seems that it would save trouble to order a left handed guitar bridge from Shaler and install it reverse, is there any reason you see that wouldn't work? does it change the placement of the roller to close or to far away from properly getting it to tune???
Do you think the original tuners , once the loose nuts were fixed , would have cured the tuning ?
Gerald, yes I do. The locking style tuners will work when tightened properly. As I said in the video, I'm simply not a fan of them. I like the longer tuning posts on the Schaller tuners. I'm not a fan of locking style tuners by any manufacturer. That's just me. All the best, BH
@@BobbyHoweGuitar thanks bud !
I had problems with the G and D strings but went a different route to solving it, I fitted a String Butler to lessen the angle of the strings as they sit in the nut and return to the tuners I also bought some Nut Sauce although a little pencil graphite also worked for me prior to getting the Nut Sauce
If you've found solutions that work for you, great! All the best, BH
Thanks for your video, Bobby. It is an excellent treatise on tuning issues.
I have a question similar to but different from another one asked: if I take a well built Epiphone Les Paul Standard and make the same modifications (pickups, bridge, tuners) would I have a guitar comparable to a higher priced Gibson? Of course this is a hypothetical question but if the answer is “not quite”, then why not? And if the answer is “not at all”, then how close might it be: 80%, 90%, 95%, etc.? I’m looking for your educated opinion based on your experience, if would consider giving it.
Thank you!
Hi anpjyt, Interesting question, I'll try to give the best answer I can. By the way, thanks for watching my video and for your nice comments. As far as the Epiphone vs Gibson quality issue, as I understand it, Epi's these days are all made in China. High quality to be sure but I would rather spend my guitar budget money supporting an American guitar company than send it to China. That's just me, I don't hold it against anyone else for making a decision that suits them. I must admit, some of the Epi's I've seen are totally beautiful and I'm sure the playing quality is there and I wouldn't mind owning one but for the reasons I've already given, I'll choose not to spend my money that way. As far as would you have an Epi that was just as high quality as a Gibson if you made the same modifications I recommend in my videos? I'm sure the quality would be every bit as good. I have an Epiphone Les Paul Elitist, body, neck, headstock made at the Fuji plant in Japan, hardware, pickups, bridge, tailpiece, tuners, etc. assembled at the Gibson plant in Nashville: A guitar of the highest quality (heavy, though). The bridge on this guitar mounts differently than the Gibson's I own or any Gibson's I've ever seen. The bridge mounting posts on the Epi screw directly into the body as opposed to the Gibson's which have threaded inserts mounted into the body. You could use a Schaller bridge on the Epi but would have to drill new holes for the threaded inserts, a job I wouldn't do myself, I would take it to a qualified luthier. I hope these answers help. Best of luck in all you do. BH
Bobby Howe Thank you for the detailed response!
I want to replace the Grover locking tuners on my Gibson SG. What Schallers did you use?
Hi Jay, I used Schaller's like these ...
www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Schaller-M6-Vintage-Tuners-3x3-Tuning-Keys-16-1-Ratio-3L-3R-CHROME-/122311609587?hash=item1c7a570cf3
Thanks for watching my videos! Please subscribe to my UA-cam channel! All the best, BH
Lately I've been having the LEAST amount of windings around the tuning posts (so there is less string to expand/contract). My tuning has never been more stable and I'm always doing 3 semi-tone bends.
I'm glad it works for you. My experiences are different from yours. Peace.
Hello, thanks for this video, very nice. How do I know which schaller machines fit my guitar? thanks
Hi Vincent, thanks for your nice words. I simply went to the Schaller website and poked around until I found the set that had the correct dimensions for my guitar: screw hole placement and size, shaft size of the tuner, etc. Their blueprint diagrams are quite accurate. You should be able to find what you need there. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
bobby, great video. i've heard alot of people say that the angle of the D and G string out of the nut to the tuners is the big tuning problem with gibsons. i'm a big string bender and im constantly tuning my 87 les paul standard. it has the gibson deluxe stock tuners. theres a device called the string butler that hooks up to the headstock to correct the angle. any thoughts on that? btw, beautiful tone and playing.
Hi Mark, Thanks for watching my video(s). I really am not a string bender so although I'm aware of the situation you speak of, the D and G strings passing through the nut at an angle, I don't really have tuning issues of the type you suggest. I can understand the situation but once again, I don't bend. You might try some Finger Ease or some stuff called Fast Fret. Loosen each strings and apply on the underside of the strings where they will contact the nut. String Butler might be a good option, I've not tried it but others seem to like it. I hope this helps and all the best, BH
10:00 we were watching as a band and we all started salivating. So good. That sound. What amp? That tone is nice. We have an SG and a J45. Should we do things to them?
The Erdoys - Sounds like a Fender Reverb amp. Blues Deluxe? Hot Rod?
@@coffeecomics3583 It is definitely chunky. Like peanut butter with some sea salt, nutella, and maybe drizzled caramel.
@@formerlyerdoys9176 Drippy gooey mustard bits!
@@skevinsquagos9343 This sky ^
I enjoyed this, mucho. (viewers, place the video speed at 1.75...you won't be late for dinner!)
Good idea to check the tightness of you tuners. I do this on very string change, even guitars with locking nuts. Another area that helps is to use like Nut sauce, graphite etc on the nut. A badly cut nut or changing string gauges on a guitar can cause tuning stability issues with the nut not being cut for that specific gauge.
Thanks 2550marshall! All the best, BH
What model of EMGs is installed in your guitar?
60X and 60AX active pickups.
why did you choose this particular model? How does it compare in sound and overall characteristics with the 57/66 set?
@@ozotel Hi, I just called EMG and spoke with one of their techs. I told him I wanted pickups that would give me the cleanest sound possible. He recommended the 60X and 60AX set. My philosophy is that I want to get the guitar to get the cleanest output sound, then if I need effects, I can get them externally with an effects pedal which is exactly how I go about it. I tend to go towards a clean sound overall. I hope this helps. BH
I now have my GraphTech Ratio tuners on my Studio LTD for about six months now, the only thing I've replace on the guitar, and it holds it's tuning forever. Important thing with a Les Paul (with any guitar, but especially with a LP) you have to stretch and stretch your strings many times when you restring or else you will spend your time retuning as you play. And don't be afraid to be aggressive when you do that. The best way is to tune a little above standard, grab each string at about mid length and stretch, retune and stretch till they stop going out of tune.
Absolutely correct, Bsharporbflat. What you described about the Les Pauls is also true for SGs. Aggressive stretching after restringing is essential. If not done, you'll just be spinning your wheels for quite some time. It is also necessary to do even though you may have locking tuners installed because the ball end of the string needs to be firmly seated. BTW, I've never broken a string doing the aggressive stretching.
hey Bobby I have a 2017 les paul Standard and I love the grover locking tuners, I don't have tuning problems but after playing over 50 years i'm probably deaf, I still gig one to three times a week and love how fast I can change my strings,
Nice to hear from you Dave. Thanks for watching my videos!
My Les Paul Studio was horrible today. G AND High B string was not liking D tuning. Time for modification. Does it matter if I play . 010s?
Hello Robert and thanks for watching my videos. If you can make them work then I think it's fine. I moved from 9's, to 10's, to 11's and I like the 11's best. I tried 12's but it's too much for me. I hope this helps. All the best, BH
I tried doing the B.B.King thing and it didn't work,the break angle on gibson headstocks and the 17 degree pitch of the headstock are the main reason gibsons go out of tune so regularly,PRS and Ibanez have got it right,gibson don't like change so you will always have tuning problems with those guitars.
I have no tuning problems with any of my my 4 LP's.
I have an old Epi Les Paul copy. It - like most 3 +3 guitars, in my opinion - had bad tuning issues, but not the kind of tuners the gentleman in this video had. Anyway, a Tusq nut, and Tusq saddles ended the tuning issues - period. Unless your tuners are bad, 99% of the time strings binding in the nut, on any guitar, is the reason your guitar is going out of tune too much. Oh, and I used to break a lot of strings on my electric guitars, and I use 12's. After I put Tusq saddles on my old SG, and the LP copy I mentioned, I have not broken a single string. They were all breaking at the saddles.
Your experiences and opinions are yours and my experiences and opinions are mine. The videos I made and the opinions expressed were based on my experiences, not yours - period.
Does the schaller bridge have more intonation adjustment for a les paul?
Great tone on that LP. Is it the pickup's or the amp or both.
Thanks David, I'm glad you like the tone. I'd say it's mostly the pickups. The strings (Elixir's), amp and effects pedal (Digitech Element) all play a part in the tone too, of course. I'd say the Schaller bridge has a similar intonation range, perhaps slightly more, than the original bridge on the guitar. I hope this helps and all the best. BH