For the same reason you mentioned I swapped in a Creamery ‘63 in the neck position in my 620 and haven’t ever looked back. I actually really like the hi gain in the bridge coupled with the toaster in the neck, they’re quite balanced and compliment each other nicely. Best of both worlds.
@henryhester1897 my 12 string 620 has a toaster in the neck and hi gain in the bridge (w a .0047 cap on push pull) I think it's optimal setup. Good array of tones
I know I’m a year late but I want to thank you for this demo. It has made a big difference in what I was contemplating with my own 330 which I have owned since 1995. Most music I play is not a traditional jangly Beatles Petty sound but still clean to OD and bit more aggressive. I have also struggled with the clarity on the top end of the neck PU and have never considered the toasters, but I am now!
Toasters for me ... that's all I've ever had; as you said "you can't beat their clean, jangly sound." BTW, very nicley done, especially the magnet difference. Thanks ...
I appreciate your informative videos and enthusiasm. Personally, I love the hi-gains on either the 330 or 360. They give me a very warm, distinctive, and full-sounding jangle, which, as a flat-picker, is exactly what I love.
I have pondered swapping my high gains for toasters on my 1990 350. I think I will leave things alone after hearing this video. Thank you for putting so much effort on making this! What I want to hear now is the difference in the bridge pickup between the high gain and the humbucker. (as in the 350HB)
I have a 360 Rick that I put a toaster up front after the original pickup failed due to corrosion. Although the output is lower it's definitely a more satisfying Rick tone. This is a good comparison. Well done.
The Creamery makes those Toaster pickups in a PAF size so you can get the jingle jangle in a non-Ric guitar. I put them in an Epiphone and they sound amaaAAAzing.
I finally settled on a Hi Gain in the bridge and a Toaster in the neck. Leads sound punchy and no mud in the middle and neck position. Well defined clear tone.
I thought the Hi Gains stood proud on the bridge setting, while being a bit muffled on the neck. I think they are as equally as valid a choice as the Toasters depending on what you want to do. I have a Hi Gain in the neck of my 90’s 360 that was rewound to Toaster specs(7.4k) and it is much more usable. The original pickup from the factory had been wound to 17 or 18k, it looked like somebody just filled the coil until it was full. I also changed the 5th knob to a version of the G&L passive treble and bass control for the the neck pickup and it is a lot more usable that the original mix control.
Creamery makes a much hotter '68 style Toaster, which is basically a Hi-Gain but with a toaster's rod magnets for that little bit of more immediate sting (like a hot Tele pickup vs a P90). I think I'd probably want the '68 Toaster in the bridge and the '63 in the neck.
I currently have a 2020 620 with The Creamery Mid-'63 Toasters and a 2021 330 with Hi-Gains. They're both excellent in their own way. I've found I can smooth the response of the Hi-Gains a little if I roll the volume back just a bit. The resistance on my Hi-Gains is about 12k each. Years ago I owned a '97 360, and its Hi-Gains were quite different: definitely brighter and more articulate. I never measured those, but I suspect they were more in the 8k-ish range. They were just about perfect. I had Gemini make some Toasters for me awhile ago to try and sit in-between a Hi-Gain and a Toaster. Haven't had a chance to install them yet. I've been fortunate to own a bunch of different Rics at various times over the past 20 years, and there is far more variety in the pickups than most people realize. I think they're winding them too hot these days in general.
Bloody brilliant video. I have a 2020 360 and thought it was the true RB sound until I watched your video. Playing Mr. Tambourine Man would have been a great test. Thanks Perky.
So on the strength of this video - I ordered a set of creameys for my Ric 360 12 string - mainly because of all of the same issues you present. The high gains certainly have their place and didn't bother me on my 360 6 string - but I found that once you are talking about the 330 / 360 12 strings, the darkness/midrange becomes even more pronounced, and you do lose a LOT of that definitive Roger McGuinn / Tom Petty sparkle that really define that particular instrument. The Rickenbacker 12 string is such a singularly unique instrument - it only does a couple of things - but it does those things spectacularly well, and no other instrument does it. One doesn't necessarily buy a Ric 12 string in service of doing something new - you get it to make That Sound - and in this context, the Creamery Toaster is the more direct path to it. In my case - I ordered a Low 57 for the neck and a Mid 63 for the bridge. I will report back with results Cheers. Jangle on!
cool video :). i finally, after 45 years, bought a used 660/12 w/ toasters....... it is a masterpiece of a guitar..... i hope u get the tone u r looking for.... me too, i am not 100% happty w/ my ricky sound ...it is awesome some days and a lil to much to tame other days :)
I'm building 2 Rickenbacker tributes about of cheap copy husks to improve my skills. Re radius, finishing, full hw and electronic swaps, refret to Rick spec matching Jescar nickle silver etc. One is a 325 copy with double CB binding. The other a 381 12 copy. Both will act more as solid bodies with minimal stock removal in the body like a 4 or 6 series. The fretboards are a bit wider. I'm putting a Janglebox JBOB in the 325 as it stands because it has 3 pickup inputs and uses the middle pickup with the 5th knob cleverly. I was putting it in the 381 12 copy because 12 string and Janglebox... Anyways the 12 is getting a custom harness, rickosound copy, authentic coponents, but the old way 250k and 500k pots instead of 330k all around. So I was putting potted singlecoils in the chinese toaster cases and using real higains in one. Then i saw Rick got toasters in, and they were the same price or less than custom made. I had a bonus and closed my eyes and bought 3. So now I'm putting a higain in both bridges and filling the rest with toasters. The lowest output measured of all in the 381. The rest in the 325 with readings rising towards bridge. Thos is all about the experience. I know its crazy to put this much in a copy. They both will have chicken motifs. Red CH over the R on the TRC. 2inch Foghorn Leghorn on the upper guard for 381. Maybe Chicken Little or the muppet chicken on the 325.
Have multiple bridges to match new radius and cut, just to know to do each and try each. Bowtie, real 6, aftermarket 12 saddle and 12 saddle tom. Main plan is adapting a guyker brass roller saddle JM bridge for the 325. It has a 9.5 so some math and shimming may be required. Have the Chinese bridge bases to drill and stud for the JM bridge posts. Could add body studs to use as designed. But I think I can make TOM male studs on a plate and run wheels under it for height like the Winfield Tom bridge base. If it doesn't work out it can go in my VI. I have a custom 1 piece brass saddle in an altered bridge base in that ATM. I'll have to change my mute in the VI if I use in their which I don't want to do. Especially after customizing that JM base and telecaster 1 piece brass saddle. The original saddle was called a caster bridge, the tele option, 9.5. a base m bridge base, carbide rotary wheel made string slots of the original screw holes. Then 2 screw holes were drilled for CB adjustment screws. Polish, cut grooves, usual adjustments. Still fiddling with it. Works great but my panorama divebombs further than the bride can rock so I keep making it stationary after trying new things. The roller would work perfect there but get in the way of the mute as the saddle height to base is far higher, it keeps it lower than the mute wants to be. Double foam is silly. Sorry for writing a book. Toilet time. Nobody cares about my tinkering but sometimes you just got to spill the Beans. This is all practice for building my dream. A mashup between a Firebird, a VI, and a Rick.
I did buy all Ric deluxe tuning machines for each Rick tribute. Now they are going in I'm thinking of getting my favorite type. Split post safety tuners. Like on a telly or VI. Except for the ones in the 12 string slot. I love being able to slip the strings on and off. So fast and stable without the top wrap. Just cut one tuner ahead, stick in center hole, bend at edge of slot when turning, tune up. When working on it, all you do is loosen and lift the little pyramid coil off the post. Slip back on later and crank. I capo the roll up on a paper towel core. Slip off harp tailpiece , Transfer capo to the spool you made. It makes life super easy when you don't want a new set every time you want to work on it.
You cant see it in my meme, but I have a 1971 360/6 Deluxe ( bought it new all those e years ago) and it came with "transitional" high gains, not the button top ones. Have gigged with it forever, but now you suggested it, it always has been more like a Tele sounding rather than the Rick "kerrang" I'd always come to expect from it. In a way it has worked out for the better it gives me more range sonically, is also lacking in other ways.. I have never measure the impedance of the pick ups, but pulled this from a Rick resource page " neck pup is 14.3K and bridge is 5.4. " I'm guessing that one was expected make liberal use of the blend knob..! To that end I have mused as to whether buying a set of vintage toasters and doing the capacitor trick will get me closer to that Johnny Marr/Paul Weller sound ... glad I stumbled on to your channel, interesting content! Cheers
So I bought a ‘63 Creamery for the neck only, keeping the high gain for the bridge (which I’ll be swapping out for the mastery). All this on a nice Cickenbacker 330 with oven knobs and a Bugby tremolo.
As someone who never cared for the Ric sound except when John Fogerty was using one, I can say the toasters definitely sound better. Even if you aren't going for the "brighter and thinner" tone, they sound better simply because of how clear they sound. The High Gain pickups sound muffled in comparison.
The dramtic differences in this vid are in part because the "blend" knob was not used.. IMO the high gain PUPs can sound as jangly as you like (volumes rolled back/blend knob adjusted) while providing some juice for higher gain tones. Alternatively vintage pickups can be be made warmer with a nice growl overdriven with mirror image adjustments. It's personal preference, but either way using the knobs, especially the "blend" knob is a key part of playing a Rick.
I did prefer the Creamery toasters through the JTM45, really nails Mike Campbell's sound. Still, hi-gains have their place (The Jam, Ride, etc.). I've got toasters on a 360/6, but now I've got to get them on a 12-string.
Personally, I think I'd go with the high gain in the neck and the toaster in the bridge. That seems reversed from a Gibson or Gretsch, but in this case I value the bridge for the bright, jangly sound and the high gain for a fatter, darker rhythm sound, especially if there's any kind of distortion.
I have a 360/12 from the eighties, which has Hi Gains. I was not really happy with the balance of the two PUs, and when I measured the DC resistance I was surprised to find that the bridge PU had 6.62 kOhms and the neck PU had 14.58 (!) kOhms. So my first thought was that maybe the two PUs were mixed up during production. However, I found several articles on the web where other people had similar experiences. Seeing that your Ricky has PUs with almost identical resistance (and in no way near to either of mine) makes me wonder about the quality control at Rickenbacker. Do they have a proper procedure how to wind the PUs, or do they just wind them until they think, now it's enough? I considered swapping them out against toasters, but the price appeared to be a little high for my taste. So I decided to unwind my neck PU. In the end I ended up with 8.48 kOhm, and I left it that way. I am now much happier with the balance and the overall sound, there is always still the mix knob to adjust the balance of the two PUs. Just one word about unwinding the PUs: this is not a simple thing to do. They are wound with AWG 44 wire, which is about the tenth of a human hair in diameter. So unwinding a PU is a very delicate thing.
Yeah, this is no joke: I tried to unwind one of my 12k Hi-Gains (in an effort to get it down to 8.5k-ish) and I broke the wire somewhere. Pickup is totally useless now.
Left handed Rickenbacker owners must be a fairly rare species...! I note you used a Vox AC30, a Marshal JTM, and an Orange. Weirdly, my favourite amp to use is one brand/sound you didn't mention, it's actually my 74 Fender Pro Reverb - 40w Valve amp, which is known for being a fairly bright and clean sound. We must stick together! 2002 Fireglo 330 Leftie owner signing in here!
I’m gonna stick my neck out here & risk getting flamed BUT despite creamery being great value for such high quality pick ups, I can’t help but think that with a bit of a EQing and setting up, a lot of pick ups would get VERY close to THAT sound (including the high gains?) They sound just like Fender single coils to me in a very UNfender axe IMHO
I think, as the brightness from the replacement pickups is somewhat nice, I miss there some of the nosy midrange character from the originals. So yeah - maybe just open up the amp a bit by eqing could turn out as a best of both worlds...?
@@ulyssestyler9685 I hope that’s the case!! EBay’s recent seller sale (80% of fees) has encouraged me to really give a good long hard look at my “HERD“ and I’m knuckling down to the uncomfortable fact that I bought guitars, In the past, for a certain sound alone and not for ‘feel’ only to find that, with a bit of work on the amp knobs and Guitar Controls, I could pretty much get the same sound from an existing Guitar I already had anyway🫣
@BeesWaxMinder Although I think you are right about being able to use eq to change the character of pickups the way you want them, I will argue that you are better off starting with brighter/clearer pickups and using your eq to roll treble off and boost mids or whatever you want. Starting with dark muddy pickups and adding treble eq to brighten them up will also raise the noise floor significantly. The added bonus of starting with bright pickups and rolling off treble to taste is that you will actually lower the noise floor as you do so.
The High Gains have more of an acoustic hollowbody sound, while the Creamery 63's toaster top have more edge. Not only does the Ric sound better with the Creamery pickups, but I'll bet a Jazzmaster would sound better with them! How much modding do you have to do to drop them in a Jazzmaster XXII?
After searching for a Rick 12 string with the toasters for a while, I gave up after listening to some demos of the 12 with the HGs and setled for a lovely 360/ 12. I considered swapping the pick-ups for the vintage but after listening to some demos with the toasters, I'm starting to wonder if you loose too much in the mid range. I do notice subtle gains in the high range with the vintage style but for me, maybe not enough to go through the trouble. We'll see...🙂
Thanks for the video, you did a great job and its very helpful. I’m having a classic 330 from 2009 and wondering if i just could put toaster in the bridge (i like hi gain for the neck position). Will toaster + hi gain combo work together in terms of different electrical characteristics?? (I’m sorry, little nooby about technical part)
Well...it would work in principal; though the hotter DC and darker sound of the HG might not balance well with the Toaster in the bridge; and you'd need to make sure the pickups are the same polarity else the middle position will be very quiet, thin and quacky....but yes, theoretically it could work.
Great comparison, never totally loved my Ric360 for a lot of the same reasons (the high gains just being too muddy or unclear on the top). I did really like when you engaged that HPF with the stock pickups though, that seemed to be a good balance between the two. Do you have somewhere that explains that in more detail?
I’m wondering if it is worth changing my pots to 250k/500k or just leave the 330k all round setup before installing my Creamery toasters? Joe seems to say 250/500 is even darker than 330k all round.
Out of interest, did you set up the amps so that the toasters sounded ‘right’ (I guess you did else why buy them?) and then use the high gains with the same settings? If you did, it would be equally interesting, and educational to hear the comparison with the amps set to bring out the best of the high gains
I've answered this in the Q&A video coming at midnight. But I actually shot the High Gain footage first & then did the swap to Toasters, so the amp was set for HGs. But that said, I probably did set it slightly darker than I typically would preempting the brightness of the Toasters. It's all a bit of a balancing act when making comparison videos like this!
I think there is a placebo effect at work when the example of the piece of equipment that you need to sound better is presented first. I'm not saying the toasters definitely do not sound better, but I'm also saying the order in which you put side by side comparisons together matter.
The first clip of the first playing example is the High Gains, not the Toasters. But despite that, something has to come first & I tend to do the clips at random - with 3 sections and 2 pickup sets, something has to come first once more than the other!
I get what you mean about toasters just sounding more Rickenbackerish. But do hang on to your Hi Gains in case you suddenly want to do a deep dive into some Steppenwolf! 🤣 (BTW....your guitar is super cool)
I prefer guitars that are like Sherman tanks. Just good enough. It's really about the guitar player. You can use some effects to get the tone you want. But ultimately, it's about the fingers.
@Joe Perkins Dude you should be writing songs. Your rhythm abilities mandate it. The world needs another Orzabal. The '63 toasters sounded clearer. The Hi-Gains are muddy. Specially when considering the '63's sitting on a track among other instruments would be a shoe-in, the Hi-Gains the engineer would have to unravel all of the extra woofiness if at all possible. That said I would've liked hearing the pickups in an original wiring guitar. IMO changing things in a circuit if one considers Dumble's "circuit constants" theory of changing things in a circuit away from the original schematic even unto things as wire length, gauge and where the wires were placed on a chassis, might alter the sound/response for when making comparisons. Changing pots and switches moves away from the original circuit. The basics have a departure point for an easier reference. This way the pickups being the only change get to be viewed as the ONLY change.
Which proves that 90% of the "Rickenbacker sound" was the pickups all along. The reason Rickenbacker switched to high gain single coils WAS to get more like a Tele sound, because the market was leaving Rickenbacker behind. This "unauthentic" Ricky tone, actually saved the brand. Out of 50-60 million guitar players, there may be 1-2 thousand who play historically correct Beatles and Birds music, but 30 million (if not more) who play the "tele tone", from country to rock and roll. I personally think Rickenbacker just pissed of their fan base to sell a few guitars that are now collecting dust next to the two humbucker Teles.
Thanks for the great vids. Sure the original RIC Toasters are 500 GBP (about 600 USD or 900 AUD). But they are ORIGINAL Rickenbacker pickups. Putting third party pickups into any guitar reduces the authenticity of the guitar regardless of the tone. Afaic, putting third party pickups into a Rickenbacker borders on blasphemy, especially when one can purchase the genuine pickups from the manufacturer. Rickenbacker guitars are expensive enough as they are. Why cheapen your beautiful work of art by replacing original bits with third party ones? Sometimes price should never be the main consideration. Cheers from the Land Down Under.
Given that they can't even make us a left handed "R" tailpiece for the price point of these instruments, I'm less concerned with using "genuine" Rickenbacker parts and more concerned with getting myself the most authentic 60's tone I can. Just because they're £500 and ship from Rickenbacker doesn't _necessarily_ mean they're in any way better than Toasters made by other people - let alone those offering unpotted/potted options, matched DC resistances, different (vintage correct) 'eras' of wind, etc. Just because something doesn't say 'Genuine Rickenbacker' on it doesn't mean it's not equally - or more - valid for some people...but that's why we're all individual and can make our own choices. 🙂
No, the main consideration should be being happy with the pickups. If you’re not happy with your tone, change the pickups and keep the originals for if/when you want to sell the guitar. FWIW Rick pickups vary just as much as any other manufacturers, I know from experience (have had well over 20 Ric basses and love them to bits). If you aren’t happy with the pickups why would you want to keep them just because they “belong” in the guitar, when you can get custom wounds (or indeed get the originals rewound) and be happier?
For the same reason you mentioned I swapped in a Creamery ‘63 in the neck position in my 620 and haven’t ever looked back. I actually really like the hi gain in the bridge coupled with the toaster in the neck, they’re quite balanced and compliment each other nicely. Best of both worlds.
What I learned from this is I need Two Ricks, one with high gains in it and one with those creamery pups in it.
they both sounded delicious.
Is it a sin to use one high gain and one toaster in the position of your choice? I didn’t think so. 😊
@henryhester1897 my 12 string 620 has a toaster in the neck and hi gain in the bridge (w a .0047 cap on push pull) I think it's optimal setup. Good array of tones
This is what I did - toasters on my 330 & high gains on my 360 - and couldn't be happier 😊
I know I’m a year late but I want to thank you for this demo. It has made a big difference in what I was contemplating with my own 330 which I have owned since 1995. Most music I play is not a traditional jangly Beatles Petty sound but still clean to OD and bit more aggressive. I have also struggled with the clarity on the top end of the neck PU and have never considered the toasters, but I am now!
Toasters all day
Damn straight :-)
The creamery pups are so much more sonically dynamic but I’ve had a bit of fungus tonight. But all that said I’m gonna order some for my 360.
Toasters for me ... that's all I've ever had; as you said "you can't beat their clean, jangly sound." BTW, very nicley done, especially the magnet difference. Thanks ...
Great comparison! I grew up listening to The Beatles - the Creamery set sound like the real deal to me 😀
I appreciate your informative videos and enthusiasm. Personally, I love the hi-gains on either the 330 or 360. They give me a very warm, distinctive, and full-sounding jangle, which, as a flat-picker, is exactly what I love.
Yeah, the High Gains definitely have their place - Toasters aren't 'better', they're just different. 👍
Completely agree Toasters more clarity I prefer them over Hi Gain
I have pondered swapping my high gains for toasters on my 1990 350. I think I will leave things alone after hearing this video. Thank you for putting so much effort on making this! What I want to hear now is the difference in the bridge pickup between the high gain and the humbucker. (as in the 350HB)
I have a 360 Rick that I put a toaster up front after the original pickup failed due to corrosion. Although the output is lower it's definitely a more satisfying Rick tone. This is a good comparison. Well done.
The Creamery makes those Toaster pickups in a PAF size so you can get the jingle jangle in a non-Ric guitar. I put them in an Epiphone and they sound amaaAAAzing.
Nice! Toasters are ace :-)
Thanks for the heads up! I want a toaster in the neck of a Tele.
@@thesjkexperience That'd be nice! 🙂
I just got a 610/12 from the 80s with high gains, but I think I need these toasters. I love that brighter, janglier thing.
I finally settled on a Hi Gain in the bridge and a Toaster in the neck. Leads sound punchy and no mud in the middle and neck position. Well defined clear tone.
I thought the Hi Gains stood proud on the bridge setting, while being a bit muffled on the neck. I think they are as equally as valid a choice as the Toasters depending on what you want to do.
I have a Hi Gain in the neck of my 90’s 360 that was rewound to Toaster specs(7.4k) and it is much more usable. The original pickup from the factory had been wound to 17 or 18k, it looked like somebody just filled the coil until it was full.
I also changed the 5th knob to a version of the G&L passive treble and bass control for the the neck pickup and it is a lot more usable that the original mix control.
Creamery makes a much hotter '68 style Toaster, which is basically a Hi-Gain but with a toaster's rod magnets for that little bit of more immediate sting (like a hot Tele pickup vs a P90). I think I'd probably want the '68 Toaster in the bridge and the '63 in the neck.
Toasters ... love your ric videos . Great playing
Thanks mate - Toasters are my favourites too :-)
You can't go wrong with Creamery pickups. I don't think the guy is able to produce anything less than stellar.
I currently have a 2020 620 with The Creamery Mid-'63 Toasters and a 2021 330 with Hi-Gains. They're both excellent in their own way. I've found I can smooth the response of the Hi-Gains a little if I roll the volume back just a bit. The resistance on my Hi-Gains is about 12k each. Years ago I owned a '97 360, and its Hi-Gains were quite different: definitely brighter and more articulate. I never measured those, but I suspect they were more in the 8k-ish range. They were just about perfect. I had Gemini make some Toasters for me awhile ago to try and sit in-between a Hi-Gain and a Toaster. Haven't had a chance to install them yet.
I've been fortunate to own a bunch of different Rics at various times over the past 20 years, and there is far more variety in the pickups than most people realize. I think they're winding them too hot these days in general.
I'm with you, I very much prefer the clean but punchy toaster PU sounds! For this, recently I bought myself a renewed 350 V64.
I like both . I need another Rickenbacker...
Bloody brilliant video. I have a 2020 360 and thought it was the true RB sound until I watched your video. Playing Mr. Tambourine Man would have been a great test. Thanks Perky.
I answered this Q in the end of October Q&A :-) Sadly, the UA-cam Copyright Police aren't as much of a fan of playing Beatles tunes as we are :P
@@JoePerkinsMusic that's alright since Mr. Tambourine Man is by the Byrds ;p
So on the strength of this video - I ordered a set of creameys for my Ric 360 12 string - mainly because of all of the same issues you present. The high gains certainly have their place and didn't bother me on my 360 6 string - but I found that once you are talking about the 330 / 360 12 strings, the darkness/midrange becomes even more pronounced, and you do lose a LOT of that definitive Roger McGuinn / Tom Petty sparkle that really define that particular instrument.
The Rickenbacker 12 string is such a singularly unique instrument - it only does a couple of things - but it does those things spectacularly well, and no other instrument does it. One doesn't necessarily buy a Ric 12 string in service of doing something new - you get it to make That Sound - and in this context, the Creamery Toaster is the more direct path to it.
In my case - I ordered a Low 57 for the neck and a Mid 63 for the bridge. I will report back with results
Cheers. Jangle on!
Great to hear mate - Toasters definitely give more of the scoopy bright jangle; the high gains are a bit thick and thumpy in comparison.
cool video :). i finally, after 45 years, bought a used 660/12 w/ toasters....... it is a masterpiece of a guitar..... i hope u get the tone u r looking for.... me too, i am not 100% happty w/ my ricky sound ...it is awesome some days and a lil to much to tame other days :)
Agree with the others. Toasters all day long.
On a separate note: i LOVE that Orange amp
The Retro 50 is one of my favourites :-)
I'm building 2 Rickenbacker tributes about of cheap copy husks to improve my skills. Re radius, finishing, full hw and electronic swaps, refret to Rick spec matching Jescar nickle silver etc. One is a 325 copy with double CB binding. The other a 381 12 copy. Both will act more as solid bodies with minimal stock removal in the body like a 4 or 6 series. The fretboards are a bit wider. I'm putting a Janglebox JBOB in the 325 as it stands because it has 3 pickup inputs and uses the middle pickup with the 5th knob cleverly. I was putting it in the 381 12 copy because 12 string and Janglebox... Anyways the 12 is getting a custom harness, rickosound copy, authentic coponents, but the old way 250k and 500k pots instead of 330k all around. So I was putting potted singlecoils in the chinese toaster cases and using real higains in one. Then i saw Rick got toasters in, and they were the same price or less than custom made. I had a bonus and closed my eyes and bought 3. So now I'm putting a higain in both bridges and filling the rest with toasters. The lowest output measured of all in the 381. The rest in the 325 with readings rising towards bridge. Thos is all about the experience. I know its crazy to put this much in a copy. They both will have chicken motifs. Red CH over the R on the TRC. 2inch Foghorn Leghorn on the upper guard for 381. Maybe Chicken Little or the muppet chicken on the 325.
Have multiple bridges to match new radius and cut, just to know to do each and try each. Bowtie, real 6, aftermarket 12 saddle and 12 saddle tom. Main plan is adapting a guyker brass roller saddle JM bridge for the 325. It has a 9.5 so some math and shimming may be required. Have the Chinese bridge bases to drill and stud for the JM bridge posts. Could add body studs to use as designed. But I think I can make TOM male studs on a plate and run wheels under it for height like the Winfield Tom bridge base. If it doesn't work out it can go in my VI. I have a custom 1 piece brass saddle in an altered bridge base in that ATM. I'll have to change my mute in the VI if I use in their which I don't want to do. Especially after customizing that JM base and telecaster 1 piece brass saddle. The original saddle was called a caster bridge, the tele option, 9.5. a base m bridge base, carbide rotary wheel made string slots of the original screw holes. Then 2 screw holes were drilled for CB adjustment screws. Polish, cut grooves, usual adjustments. Still fiddling with it. Works great but my panorama divebombs further than the bride can rock so I keep making it stationary after trying new things. The roller would work perfect there but get in the way of the mute as the saddle height to base is far higher, it keeps it lower than the mute wants to be. Double foam is silly. Sorry for writing a book. Toilet time. Nobody cares about my tinkering but sometimes you just got to spill the Beans. This is all practice for building my dream. A mashup between a Firebird, a VI, and a Rick.
I did buy all Ric deluxe tuning machines for each Rick tribute. Now they are going in I'm thinking of getting my favorite type. Split post safety tuners. Like on a telly or VI. Except for the ones in the 12 string slot. I love being able to slip the strings on and off. So fast and stable without the top wrap. Just cut one tuner ahead, stick in center hole, bend at edge of slot when turning, tune up. When working on it, all you do is loosen and lift the little pyramid coil off the post. Slip back on later and crank. I capo the roll up on a paper towel core. Slip off harp tailpiece , Transfer capo to the spool you made. It makes life super easy when you don't want a new set every time you want to work on it.
Excellent and congratulations on your final result.
Be sure to crank that up through a Hiwatt sometime-quite a glorious thing(:
Ooh I'd love to! :-)
Definitley the Toasters for me , they have way more clarity and dont sound as muffled as the High Gain
You cant see it in my meme, but I have a 1971 360/6 Deluxe ( bought it new all those e years ago) and it came with "transitional" high gains, not the button top ones. Have gigged with it forever, but now you suggested it, it always has been more like a Tele sounding rather than the Rick "kerrang" I'd always come to expect from it. In a way it has worked out for the better it gives me more range sonically, is also lacking in other ways.. I have never measure the impedance of the pick ups, but pulled this from a Rick resource page " neck pup is 14.3K and bridge is 5.4. " I'm guessing that one was expected make liberal use of the blend knob..! To that end I have mused as to whether buying a set of vintage toasters and doing the capacitor trick will get me closer to that Johnny Marr/Paul Weller sound ... glad I stumbled on to your channel, interesting content! Cheers
Hi Joe. Greetings from California. I'm almost certain that Guitar Fetish has Ricky pickups too.
And thanks for the great review!!!!!
I'll take High Gains in the bridge position on my 330 everyday. A Toaster in the neck is nice, but I rarely use both pickups or solo the neck pickup.
You inspired me to get those knobs... idk if they're going on my 620 or my les paul
They're super cool :P Love the old Capri look!
So I bought a ‘63 Creamery for the neck only, keeping the high gain for the bridge (which I’ll be swapping out for the mastery). All this on a nice Cickenbacker 330 with oven knobs and a Bugby tremolo.
I have found the need to release the pole pieces on my 4003 neck pickups and raise them substantially
As someone who never cared for the Ric sound except when John Fogerty was using one, I can say the toasters definitely sound better. Even if you aren't going for the "brighter and thinner" tone, they sound better simply because of how clear they sound. The High Gain pickups sound muffled in comparison.
The dramtic differences in this vid are in part because the "blend" knob was not used.. IMO the high gain PUPs can sound as jangly as you like (volumes rolled back/blend knob adjusted) while providing some juice for higher gain tones. Alternatively vintage pickups can be be made warmer with a nice growl overdriven with mirror image adjustments. It's personal preference, but either way using the knobs, especially the "blend" knob is a key part of playing a Rick.
I did prefer the Creamery toasters through the JTM45, really nails Mike Campbell's sound. Still, hi-gains have their place (The Jam, Ride, etc.). I've got toasters on a 360/6, but now I've got to get them on a 12-string.
Those creamery pups are a definite upgrade
En clean,las tostadoras y las altas ganancias me gustan por igual,pero con un poco de distorsión las tostadoras y el orange suena maravilloso.
I love the Masterly on my Jazzmaster. Too bad Masterly doesn't build a bridge for a 12-string Ric. (Mine has Toasters).
Personally, I think I'd go with the high gain in the neck and the toaster in the bridge. That seems reversed from a Gibson or Gretsch, but in this case I value the bridge for the bright, jangly sound and the high gain for a fatter, darker rhythm sound, especially if there's any kind of distortion.
I have a 360/12 from the eighties, which has Hi Gains. I was not really happy with the balance of the two PUs, and when I measured the DC resistance I was surprised to find that the bridge PU had 6.62 kOhms and the neck PU had 14.58 (!) kOhms. So my first thought was that maybe the two PUs were mixed up during production. However, I found several articles on the web where other people had similar experiences. Seeing that your Ricky has PUs with almost identical resistance (and in no way near to either of mine) makes me wonder about the quality control at Rickenbacker. Do they have a proper procedure how to wind the PUs, or do they just wind them until they think, now it's enough? I considered swapping them out against toasters, but the price appeared to be a little high for my taste. So I decided to unwind my neck PU. In the end I ended up with 8.48 kOhm, and I left it that way. I am now much happier with the balance and the overall sound, there is always still the mix knob to adjust the balance of the two PUs. Just one word about unwinding the PUs: this is not a simple thing to do. They are wound with AWG 44 wire, which is about the tenth of a human hair in diameter. So unwinding a PU is a very delicate thing.
Yeah, this is no joke: I tried to unwind one of my 12k Hi-Gains (in an effort to get it down to 8.5k-ish) and I broke the wire somewhere. Pickup is totally useless now.
Left handed Rickenbacker owners must be a fairly rare species...!
I note you used a Vox AC30, a Marshal JTM, and an Orange. Weirdly, my favourite amp to use is one brand/sound you didn't mention, it's actually my 74 Fender Pro Reverb - 40w Valve amp, which is known for being a fairly bright and clean sound.
We must stick together! 2002 Fireglo 330 Leftie owner signing in here!
The Toasters are killer, you can hear every note
I’m gonna stick my neck out here & risk getting flamed BUT despite creamery being great value for such high quality pick ups, I can’t help but think that with a bit of a EQing and setting up, a lot of pick ups would get VERY close to THAT sound (including the high gains?)
They sound just like Fender single coils to me in a very UNfender axe IMHO
I think that's true of many pickups. One doesn't always need new pickups or a new guitar.
I think, as the brightness from the replacement pickups is somewhat nice, I miss there some of the nosy midrange character from the originals.
So yeah - maybe just open up the amp a bit by eqing could turn out as a best of both worlds...?
@@ulyssestyler9685 I hope that’s the case!!
EBay’s recent seller sale (80% of fees) has encouraged me to really give a good long hard look at my “HERD“ and I’m knuckling down to the uncomfortable fact that I bought guitars, In the past, for a certain sound alone and not for ‘feel’ only to find that, with a bit of work on the amp knobs and Guitar Controls, I could pretty much get the same sound from an existing Guitar I already had anyway🫣
@@marcofioravanti4176 i’m only now beginning to realise this after so many years!
@BeesWaxMinder Although I think you are right about being able to use eq to change the character of pickups the way you want them, I will argue that you are better off starting with brighter/clearer pickups and using your eq to roll treble off and boost mids or whatever you want. Starting with dark muddy pickups and adding treble eq to brighten them up will also raise the noise floor significantly. The added bonus of starting with bright pickups and rolling off treble to taste is that you will actually lower the noise floor as you do so.
The High Gains have more of an acoustic hollowbody sound, while the Creamery 63's toaster top have more edge. Not only does the Ric sound better with the Creamery pickups, but I'll bet a Jazzmaster would sound better with them! How much modding do you have to do to drop them in a Jazzmaster XXII?
Probably quite a bit tbh!!
Probably quite a bit tbh!!
Probably quite a bit tbh!!
Creamery is far more jangly with a clean amp. I installed them in my 360.
After searching for a Rick 12 string with the toasters for a while, I gave up after listening to some demos of the 12 with the HGs and setled for a lovely 360/ 12. I considered swapping the pick-ups for the vintage but after listening to some demos with the toasters, I'm starting to wonder if you loose too much in the mid range. I do notice subtle gains in the high range with the vintage style but for me, maybe not enough to go through the trouble. We'll see...🙂
Always fun to experiment :-) I much prefer the Toasters, but the High Gains are cool too :-)
Thanks for the video, you did a great job and its very helpful.
I’m having a classic 330 from 2009 and wondering if i just could put toaster in the bridge (i like hi gain for the neck position).
Will toaster + hi gain combo work together in terms of different electrical characteristics?? (I’m sorry, little nooby about technical part)
Well...it would work in principal; though the hotter DC and darker sound of the HG might not balance well with the Toaster in the bridge; and you'd need to make sure the pickups are the same polarity else the middle position will be very quiet, thin and quacky....but yes, theoretically it could work.
Joe, thanks for your helpful answer, i guess i’m gonna try it why not🙂
@@maximnikitin8791 Yep - always fun to experiment 🙂
Great comparison, never totally loved my Ric360 for a lot of the same reasons (the high gains just being too muddy or unclear on the top). I did really like when you engaged that HPF with the stock pickups though, that seemed to be a good balance between the two. Do you have somewhere that explains that in more detail?
This vid might be useful :-) ua-cam.com/video/k_NnyvLusj0/v-deo.html
The Toasters!!!! No doubt
Wow, this is the first time I've noticed that your banner says Perky's not Perkins! 😂 Anyway, thx for the content, well done!
Aha - well spotted! 😂
They both sound good, I think Ricks high gain sound better than their own toasters but the Creamery have a slight edge.
I’m wondering if it is worth changing my pots to 250k/500k or just leave the 330k all round setup before installing my Creamery toasters? Joe seems to say 250/500 is even darker than 330k all round.
Unless you’re going for full vintage accuracy, I wouldn’t worry about changing them 👍
This makes me wanna get the 350V63 with 3 Toasters over the 330 with 2 High Gains, even though the 330 is amazing and is 1/3 cheaper.
Out of interest, did you set up the amps so that the toasters sounded ‘right’ (I guess you did else why buy them?) and then use the high gains with the same settings? If you did, it would be equally interesting, and educational to hear the comparison with the amps set to bring out the best of the high gains
I've answered this in the Q&A video coming at midnight. But I actually shot the High Gain footage first & then did the swap to Toasters, so the amp was set for HGs. But that said, I probably did set it slightly darker than I typically would preempting the brightness of the Toasters. It's all a bit of a balancing act when making comparison videos like this!
I think there is a placebo effect at work when the example of the piece of equipment that you need to sound better is presented first. I'm not saying the toasters definitely do not sound better, but I'm also saying the order in which you put side by side comparisons together matter.
The first clip of the first playing example is the High Gains, not the Toasters. But despite that, something has to come first & I tend to do the clips at random - with 3 sections and 2 pickup sets, something has to come first once more than the other!
I get what you mean about toasters just sounding more Rickenbackerish. But do hang on to your Hi Gains in case you suddenly want to do a deep dive into some Steppenwolf! 🤣 (BTW....your guitar is super cool)
I prefer guitars that are like Sherman tanks. Just good enough. It's really about the guitar player.
You can use some effects to get the tone you want. But ultimately, it's about the fingers.
Doesn't one swap out then in? Rather, doesn't one simply "swap"? Really good demo though.
Words aren't my strong point :P
@Joe Perkins
Dude you should be writing songs. Your rhythm abilities mandate it.
The world needs another Orzabal.
The '63 toasters sounded clearer. The Hi-Gains are muddy. Specially when considering the '63's sitting on a track among other instruments would be a shoe-in, the Hi-Gains the engineer would have to unravel all of the extra woofiness if at all possible.
That said I would've liked hearing the pickups in an original wiring guitar. IMO changing things in a circuit if one considers Dumble's "circuit constants" theory of changing things in a circuit away from the original schematic even unto things as wire length, gauge and where the wires were placed on a chassis, might alter the sound/response for when making comparisons.
Changing pots and switches moves away from the original circuit. The basics have a departure point for an easier reference. This way the pickups being the only change get to be viewed as the ONLY change.
I have a Ric 620, solid body with high gains and this video isn’t helping to dissuade me of my thinking that I also need a 360 with toasters 😂.
Toasters win out by a mile!
T O A S T!
Sound almost the same to me.
Toasters!
FWIW I almost prefer toasters to high gains.
If the neck pickup is too loud for the bridge in the middle position, turn it down! You have independent controls there.
bravissimo
Toasters
Hi gains sound muddier to me.
Which proves that 90% of the "Rickenbacker sound" was the pickups all along. The reason Rickenbacker switched to high gain single coils WAS to get more like a Tele sound, because the market was leaving Rickenbacker behind. This "unauthentic" Ricky tone, actually saved the brand. Out of 50-60 million guitar players, there may be 1-2 thousand who play historically correct Beatles and Birds music, but 30 million (if not more) who play the "tele tone", from country to rock and roll. I personally think Rickenbacker just pissed of their fan base to sell a few guitars that are now collecting dust next to the two humbucker Teles.
Even John Fogerty installed a real humbucker in the bridge position on his 325. Jangle isn't everything.
Thanks for the great vids. Sure the original RIC Toasters are 500 GBP (about 600 USD or 900 AUD). But they are ORIGINAL Rickenbacker pickups. Putting third party pickups into any guitar reduces the authenticity of the guitar regardless of the tone. Afaic, putting third party pickups into a Rickenbacker borders on blasphemy, especially when one can purchase the genuine pickups from the manufacturer. Rickenbacker guitars are expensive enough as they are. Why cheapen your beautiful work of art by replacing original bits with third party ones? Sometimes price should never be the main consideration. Cheers from the Land Down Under.
Given that they can't even make us a left handed "R" tailpiece for the price point of these instruments, I'm less concerned with using "genuine" Rickenbacker parts and more concerned with getting myself the most authentic 60's tone I can. Just because they're £500 and ship from Rickenbacker doesn't _necessarily_ mean they're in any way better than Toasters made by other people - let alone those offering unpotted/potted options, matched DC resistances, different (vintage correct) 'eras' of wind, etc. Just because something doesn't say 'Genuine Rickenbacker' on it doesn't mean it's not equally - or more - valid for some people...but that's why we're all individual and can make our own choices. 🙂
No, the main consideration should be being happy with the pickups. If you’re not happy with your tone, change the pickups and keep the originals for if/when you want to sell the guitar. FWIW Rick pickups vary just as much as any other manufacturers, I know from experience (have had well over 20 Ric basses and love them to bits). If you aren’t happy with the pickups why would you want to keep them just because they “belong” in the guitar, when you can get custom wounds (or indeed get the originals rewound) and be happier?
Toasters!