Hey folks, apologies but this video unfortunately contains a few bits of incorrect information! One of the key players in Honey's discovery helped me to correct those mistakes in my Team Hooligan BONUS Video right here: ua-cam.com/video/NZTd_H_j2OE/v-deo.html
hi johnny sorry to comment you if you are busy is it ok if you can explain who majin sonic aka the creep sonic from sonic CD the 12 sumthing 25 sonic cause i dont know much
@@SaturnRecoded The infamous Majin sound test screen was put into Sonic CD by the game's landscape artist Masato Nishimura who also goes by "Mazin/Majin". The Majin character is actually supposed to be a stylized version of his face and the creepy screen and message was originally meant to be an anti piracy screen. Masato Nishimura is known for hiding his face in games he works on. Also... Apparently there's a rumor that Majin Sonic was a beta design for Metal Sonic that got scrapped... I've yet to confirm that last bit though. Hope I was helpful in educating you, God bless ♥️
You forgot to correct one misinformation in the team hooligan bonus video: pepsiman appears ONLY in the Japanese Saturn version, not the arcade or American version
Blasphemer she deserves to be playable in a future Christian Whitehead Game. She's the only Female Classic Character other than Amy in the games & would be much easier to implement than Sally Acorn.
@@WaterKirby1994 pfftt you guys will never get over the Amy thing Plz she's not Even that good of a charecter she's like the princess peach Of the sonic series but just a unlikeable bich who simps for sonic
A bit of an update: If anyone has gotten the "Free Comic Book Day" IDW Sonic comic or has seen it in some way, Honey does make a return (granted only two panels, but still nice to see they brought her back)!
I think you can attribute that to Fighting Vipers being kinda obscure in the West. As noted in the video, in Japan she became a popular character enough to inspire lots of cosplay. I actually wouldn't mind Sega taking another crack at Fighting Vipers in the modern age... and actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to Sonic the Fighters, either, on that note.
Honey's design manages to work wonderfully in both human and cat form. It is really cool that fan-interest has got her far more recognition than most scrapped characters can even dream of. The extra Pepsiman trivia was also neat.
I'm sure that it's already been commented but Honey finally showed up in the IDW comics! She was in the free comic book day issue yesterday, she doesn't speak sadly but it's great that she's finally been acknowledged since 2016 🙂
Thanks for watching. Here's a correction: - Pepsiman is ONLY in the Japanese SEGA Saturn version of Fighting Vipers. Not the arcade version or any US version. Not sure how I messed that one up.
Can you do a video on the Knothole Freedom Fighters. I've seen videos on Sally Acorn but no videos about Bunnie, Antoine, Rotor and Nicole. So it would be nice to see videos on those characters.
There was Fighting Vipers 2 game as well released in Japan and Europe for the dreamcast, the game was never released in the US In that European version of the game, Candy renamed back to Honey.
A few things: Fighting Vipers was based on the Virtua Fighter 2 engine, not Virtua Fighter, which used Model1 hardware and not Model2. And... oh gosh you got to the part with Honey in StF... there's a bit of misinformation you're delivering here. Honey's eye transitions are fine actually, as evidenced when she is squished and hurt she closes her eyes, and when she is surprised by something like Amy's "Look Over Here! " attack or on the elevator to the final boss. Honey's body when squished does use Amy's assets, however Honey has assets of her own for squished body parts and Honey does have a VS screen portrait but goes unused in the Arcade version. Both of these were fixed in the 2012 re-release. In fact, in an interview with AM2 porting team when making the 2012 release, they found Honey's data on their own, most likely using debug mode. It was after this that they found fanart of Honey from the west when they searched for info about her. So I have no doubt Sega did acknowledge Honey on their own. Honey is not completely fixed in the 2012 version actually, her continue screen is missing her pigtails. As someone who was in that original thread from Sonic Cult, I would like to credit sonicblur, original discover of the character values, OmochaoAbuser who first used those values in an emulated environment, and myself who originally dug deeper and posted all the asset findings to Sonic Cult's site. Would have loved to have collabed on this one, but it is what it is.
Forgot to add my own speculation as to why Honey was removed from the arcade release, and that may have been a hardware limitation on rendering her pigtails. I have played with Honey on actual arcade hardware, and whenever there's a lot of movement by Honey (such as spamming barrier) her pigtails aren't rendered every frame. Footage of this can be found on my channel.
Thanks for the extensive feedback Rob, I appreciate it. It's disappointing to hear I fell victim of some false information online and included it here. Unlike my Ashura video, I didn't do any first-hand testing for this one and cobbled together a narrative from some online sources. It sounds like some of them weren't reliable. Thanks again for adding some useful corrections though. Hopefully I'll avoid stuff like this in the future.
@@JohnnyVector It's more that they weren't up to date than being reliable. I am admittedly the one who released most of that information and/or wasn't specific enough about that information to allow speculation and new information has been found since then that just hasn't spread far enough to replace the old information. The article on tcrf requires an extensive overhaul with the discovery of debug mode and it's been on my to-do list for quite some time. All in all, this is still a really great video, and I'm glad my old Sonic stomping grounds gets the credit here that has been overlooked for many years, ha!
I know others have said it here, but it seems like SEGA is keeping a close eye to some extent on Honey. she appears for two panels in the IDW Classic Sonic comics, and in a New Years art piece at the start of 2021. so it seems like Honey is indeed canon, but she's apart of the classic cast as opposed to the modern cast. hey, it works for me.
I feel like Honey could be a fun inclusion in future Sonic games if given the opportunity. Although it was made by fans. Honey was made playable in Sonic Robo Blast 2 and she was a fun character for me to play as.
Man you’re absolutely crushing it with these videos. I’ve always loved Honey’s design, one of my favorite female sonic characters. I was thinking maybe you could do Tiara from Sonic Xtreme since she has a cool and unique design as well but the research might be difficult because the game never was released. I’ve only ever seen her used in sprite animations
Yeah... If Honey the Cat is in the Canonically Unused Characters Limbo alongside the exclusive characters from the Archie and Fleetway comics, then Tiara the Manx is in the Canonically Non-existent Characters Limbo, alongside... idk, Madonna, Sonic's conceptual girlfriend?
With Forces starting what may become a trend of customization I feel that Honey has a good chance of appearing in a future Sonic game. All that's left is to hope.
@@jakescartoons6045 there was actually a Honey the cat platformer at this year's fan game sage expo. It was pretty fun! You should check it out! It was called Chaos Dynasty Honey.
I love the Sonic Cult disclaimer. It's true, the internet isn't there to baby-sit children, and there are places where they definitely shouldn't be hanging around. I wish people understood that and let adults be adults in peace instead of trying to censor them because "think of the children".
@@PhillipH-san So children should be welcomed _because_ they are degenerates? You are not making much sense. They are trying to gatekeep children from their site. By the way, what do you even mean by "degenerates" here?
@@TBONE_2004 Really? That's pretty bad. I'd heard other bad things about him as well so I'm not that surprised. Though it's still besides the point of my original comment.
I browsed it all the time and definitely don't remember that warning. Guess like most unsupervised kids who went there I just got used to ignoring it lol
when i was a kid around 2005-6-7 i discover deviantart and i loved to see oc of sonic, then this honey the cat appeared a lot in drawings, i never knew who she was, i believed was only a famous oc, it took me years to know she was an unused character from a very obscure sonic game nobody played, im still impressed how this character became so famous
7:25 i drew that! nostalgia! I did a lot of Honey art on Deviantart when I first found out about her back in the 00's. I even ran the club on DA and made contests for people to do fanart also ='D
Hey now that I have the opportunity I just want to let you know that I loved the other art you made of her. I remember coming across it when I first discovered Honey the Cat when I was a kid and I thought she was very cute. Did you happen to draw the one titled “.:ZERO GRAVITY:.” that is on DeviantArt? It only says it's by “honeythecat-club” so I'm wondering if you did it as well since it looks kind of similar to your art.
It took me a month to watch this video, but I finally got around to it! It's neat to see Honey getting some love in current year, I was always fascinated by the story of her existence (and probably had a crush back in the day) It was really cool to see her get referenced in the whole free comic sonic birthday thing too, as many have pointed out already. Good video as usual!! It's awesome to see one of the guys responsible for finding her in the first place in the comments, as well!!
Yeah, if Mighty; Ray; Fang; Bean; and Bark get to make appearances (albeit only cameos in the case of the latter three) in Sonic video games, Honey sure as hell deserves to reappear in at least that vein.
Overall a good look at Honey the Cat, but there are a few inconsistencies here and there you might have overlooked or simplified to shorten the video. 1: Fighting Vipers is actually built over Virtua Fighter 2 and employs all of the new innovations (for the time) that were introduced by VF2, like texture mapping, and it was built on the Sega Model 2 arcade hardware. 2. Armstone City isn't actually explicitly in America, but its heavily based around western themes and the stage Old Armstone Town (a theme park) is even dressed up to look like an old wild west town (Similarly, Bahn is clearly supposed to be Japanese, and is the only character that doesn't speak English, but his character bio states he's from "an island nation") 3. Honey's armor is usually said to be some sort of plastic or rubber material, not leather (Fun Fact: her blue player 2 costume is made of a thicker and heavier material and its skirt reacts to wind effects different from the red outfit!) 4. Her undergarments are visible across all versions of the game. The western release only removed the cheat that allows you to remove Honey's skirt when her armor is broken, making it much easier to see her thong. The black bra(?) is always visible when her armor is broken in all versions and underskirt peeks at her skimpy underwear are not uncommon, especially with her high kicks. 5. Pepsiman is NOT in the Japanese Arcade version OR the Western Saturn version. He is only in the Japanese Saturn version, along with a few special costumes for Honey that were cut for western audiences too! 6. She's much harder to spot, but along with the Lunar fox, Rocket Metal Sonic, and Player 2 Honey the Cat, the default color red and yellow Honey the Cat is in the same scene in the Fighting Vipers Saturn intro! She's at the very top left just before the scene cuts, so she's a bit harder to spot! 7. Though Honey's character data is built around Amy, her moveset is almost an exact copy of Knuckles (minus his spindash) and a couple of Amy's moves that resemble her FV counterpart, like the bootie bop. 8. Honey doesn't use Amy's fighting stance, and instead has one that mirrors her FV counterpart. 9. Sonic the Fighters isn't necessarily non-canon, however Honey is restricted currently to being in the Classic Sonic universe ONLY since STF was set in the Classic World. Sega is fairly strict these days about what characters are allowed to show up when and where, after the Archie comics series was cancelled, IDW (the new publisher) has been very strictly monitored about which characters are allowed to be featured and WHERE. Mighty, Ray, Bean, Bark, and Fang/Nack are all allowed to be in the Classic Comics, but not the main series. This extends even further to HOW a character is portrayed and characterized, and Honey is in a bit of a pickle since she doesn't exactly have a canon SONIC personality. So outside of some cameo appearances in Classic Sonic content I doubt we will see much of her anytime soon. - - It wasn't really the focus of the video but even more coverage of Honey's human counterpart would have been really cool! A quick story breakdown of Fighting Vipers 1 and 2, her inclusion in Fighters Megamix alongside Bean and Bark, alternate costumes, and other cameo appearances of Human Honey would have been really interesting to see if you wanted to get really in depth, but then it would be more of a Fighting Vipers Honey video instead of a Honey the Cat video. These details were mostly nitpicks, this was still a really good look at Honey the Cat's history and origin and its always nice for people to be exposed to more Honey and Fighting Vipers!
Thanks. You're right, a few points weren't expanded upon for the sake of brevity but a few inaccuracies definitely needed correcting. I am not sure how I messed up the Pepsiman bit so much.
Ah you went into this in much more detail than I could have Sherlock! Thank you for chiming in! I didn't have concrete proof for some of this so I'm glad you did. I wanted to add the red material in her outfit being plastic/rubber and the armor removal. The only thing here is with the current dump of the Fighting Vipers ROM (Rev D), when setting the region to USA it does remove all the Pepsi branding, but the skirt armor removal cheat of 100 wins in a row does indeed work. If a proper USA dump is found, I will investigate if the cheat still works or not, heh.
@@Biggestsonicfan ah you're right I don't remember for sure if it the Western arcade releases have the skirt thing or not, I think the Western Saturn version removed it though!
The problem with honey is she very never intended to existed. She not a fan character she a scrapped character that was modded back into the game and her official debut in the franchise is the 2012 remake. She popular but it's like we haven't seen much off her due to sega not knowing what do with such a gray area charcter.
If Honey ever becomes playable in a mainline Sonic platformer, I'd love for the developers to mix the platforming controls with some of the fighting mechanics from Fighting Vipers. If they did that, Honey would be my preferred character to play as in that game because of how much I love Fighting Vipers.
I know you probably heard this hundreds of times by now, but Honey actually ended up appearing as a background character in one of the anniversary comics.
She needs to become a permanent character. Considering how few female Sonic characters their are compared to the male cast, and the fact in the IDW they're creating new strong well rounded female characters, keeping her hidden just shouldn't be happening. (Also bring back Team Hooligan for the love of everything! They need to stop locking them to the "classic era".
Honestly we don't get enough cat Mobians in Sonic, the only other one I can think of is Blaze. Which sucks because Honey and Blaze (which sounds like a kind of sweet hotsauce when I say their names together) have some of the coolest designs. I know she's shown up in the 'free comic book day' IDW comics, and I really hope she shows up for real sometime in the future.
Oh yeah. I mean, there are so many. Not counting the ones from the comics or cartoons, there's Silver Sonic (called Robo Sonic in Lego Dimensions) from StH2; Silver Sonic (the one that's :]) from the Game Gear game that also appeared in Sonic Mania; there's Metal Sonic from Sonic CD, we all know this one; Mecha Sonic from S3&K, the first one to go Super; Metal Sonic Kai from Knuckles Chaotix, who used a huge Dark Ring to become a monstrosity (which inspired the looks of Giga Metal Sonic in Sonic Mania); there's the unused Mechagodzilla-looking Silver Sonic II in Sonic Adventure, stuck in a tube; there's Metal Sonic 3.0 from Sonic Rivals 2, made by Eggman NEGA; there's Rocket Metal Sonic, aka Mecha Sonic Model No.29 from Sonic the Fighters; there's Neo Metal Sonic, a powered up form of Metal Sonic, which later becomes Metal Overlord, from Sonic Heroes; and I bet there's one or two I have missed.
I loved this look at her history. I like Fighting Vipers a lot and I knew the basic jist of the story, but having it fleshed out with all the details and especially seeing Honey's original incarnation in action loaded into the arcade version was really cool. Great work.
Bark and Bean are technically canon, but only really appear in easter eggs, sort of. They both appear on a wanted poster in Generations and as illusions alongside Fang in the heavy magician fight in Mania, so if they're canon, it's likely Honey is too. As far as video suggestions go, how about Metal Knuckles or Tails Doll from Sonic R? Tails Doll isn't necessarily forgotten, so to speak, given his reputation online thanks to certain stories, but he does have a little bit of history outside of that!
Thanks! The Game Apologist did a cool video on Metal Knuckles but I have been considering Tails Doll. I think he'd be the perfect character to cover in October.
A lot if you want to also count background cats or cats that appeared in other media. Like the Adrien Agreste from Miraculous Ladybug cameo in one of the comics in which they made him a cat.
I wish Sonic Team would make a Sonic game where every character (except comics) makes an appearance and many are playable like SA1. All the obscure ones showing up would be nice
I’m not the biggest Sonic fan (compared to the original) but damn this channel is amazing. You give so much content for characters I’d never heard of and it’s really well-done
Great video, informative and well spoken! I love Honey! I have a Sonic project that's been in the works for some time now. If everything goes according to plan, it could be huge... And you better believe Honey's a part of it!! Keep your eyes open for it, it all starts... with a white cassette tape.
Johnny Vector: "It's high time Honey reappears in a new Sonic game" Me: "It's high time just about any character other than Sonic, Tails and Eggman reappear in a new Sonic game. The Sonic series has been neglecting other characters ever since Sonic Unleashed!"
I quite enjoyed her depiction in the Archie comics. Would love it if she had a similar role / depiction in the IDW series someday, but I hear SEGA wants character like Mighty, Ray, Fang and (probably) Honey to become "Classic Sonic" exclusives for some strange reason.
Well Sega as a business saw the marketing potential of Classic Sonic but they didn't really want to explain how the newer Classic Sonic games fit in the timeline so they split it off so they could continue marketing Classic Sonic without clashing with Modern Sonic (Forces did a horrible job at this) and since most of the cast didn't exist during the Classic era they decided to use old characters that they haven't used in a long time as Sonic backup cast they kept them classic exclusive so that way they don't have to explain why they haven't appear in a game for a long time
I love this series, it would be interesting to see a Chaos 0 video ( I was going to ask one for Void, Lumina Flowlight and Illumina, but they only appear in one game and I feel like you might have more to work with Chaos) Keep up the good work. ^-^
As was already commented, Honey did appear in the FCBD IDW comic. Since Mania, Sega has stated that they want to keep the two canons, "classic" (pre-Adventures) and "modern" (Adventures onwards), well differenciated adn moving from Archie to IDW was part of this idea. Honey is part of the classic canon and like Fang, Ray, Bark, Bean or the Sonic Band, will never* appear in the modern timeline in the IDW comics (*unless they change their minds, but that's the current plan), for keeping some exclusive characters for the classic stories. Charmy, Vector and Mighty might be supposed to appear in both, but I'm not sure about this.
I don't think we'll ever see Honey again mostly because I think Sonic has way too many characters as is in both games and comics. But I'll be pleasantly surprise if she did.
@@ikagura That's not true. There are so many other factors as to why the later games dropped in quality, and if anything Sonic's friends don't show up as often in those titles.
She actually is in the idw comic, sonics 30th anniversary comic Amy draws comic strips for all the mobians in town ; tails then hands them out around town and not of them is Honey and towards the end u can spot her worried with the crowd when sonic shows up.
@@JohnnyVector typically at the moment it is canonical in sonics past because the comic and question is of younger sonic tales and Amy so technically it would be canonical in the video game world
3:38 "In short, Honey was a little bit too sexualised for American audiences." Rouge: Allow me to introduce myself. (Yes I know she was designed in Japan but Sega America let it slide)
Regarding canonicity, while Fang/Nack did exist beforehand (Triple Trouble), Bean and Bark were introduced in the Fighters, and yet all three reappeared in Mirage Saloon Zone in Sonic Mania. Granted, they were illusions by the Heavy Magician, but they had wanted posters confirming their existence within the "Classic Sonic" timeline. Sonic Mania's very existence functions upon the idea of the classic adventures being a separate canon, while the main adventures exist within the Modern timeline, that being Sonic Adventure onwards. This, combined with the reintroduction of Mighty and Ray from Segasonic, means that Honey the Cat could absolutely be a canon character, just one who simply exists exclusively in that same "classic timeline," like Fang, Bean, Bark, Mighty, Ray, and heck, even Heavy, Bomb, Metal Knuckles and the Tails Doll- characters who appeared in maybe one or two games but were never heard from again beyond Sonic Adventure. When considering how the biggest design changes when comparing Classic to Modern are always the clothing choices (most notable comparing Classic and Modern Amy) it makes me wonder if Honey, if given a modern counterpart, would also have a different outfit- especially considering how that's the core of her entire character- but I suppose we'll never know. The only way I see her returning is in a Sonic Mania sequel, another the Fighters rerelease, or some other, more original excursion into the classic timeline handled by the Whitehead team- but the likelihood of that happening after Origins is slim to none. I'd be more than happy to be wrong about that, though.
I actually remember in one of my Sega Saturn Magazines back in the day, it had a picture of Honey from Fighting Vipers in a black revealing dress! My parents didn't approve, so they drew over it! I was livid! (I was 9 at the time)
I remember first discovering honey the cat. I was playing sonic fighters when I pressed a button on amy and changed her character. I did'nt know what I did then, but I eventually realized which button I pressed. (I was on my PS4 and don't remember now.)
Be cool u made a history of Mighty & Ray I really enjoy you're content man fun to watch & fun to learn about someone even a big Sonic fan myself didn't know of Also note I didn't know Sonic gems Collection was on ps2
There was a story floating around in some ofnow defunct sonic forums. That spoke of this character and how someone discovering it when they were modifying an arcade cabinet. Similar to how people used to hack pacman to get Mrs. Pacman. This predated the ease of digital cameras and most people just this person was full of it and dismissed their claim.
Hey folks, apologies but this video unfortunately contains a few bits of incorrect information! One of the key players in Honey's discovery helped me to correct those mistakes in my Team Hooligan BONUS Video right here: ua-cam.com/video/NZTd_H_j2OE/v-deo.html
hi johnny sorry to comment you if you are busy is it ok if you can explain who majin sonic aka the creep sonic from sonic CD the 12 sumthing 25 sonic cause i dont know much
@@SaturnRecoded The infamous Majin sound test screen was put into Sonic CD by the game's landscape artist Masato Nishimura who also goes by "Mazin/Majin". The Majin character is actually supposed to be a stylized version of his face and the creepy screen and message was originally meant to be an anti piracy screen.
Masato Nishimura is known for hiding his face in games he works on. Also... Apparently there's a rumor that Majin Sonic was a beta design for Metal Sonic that got scrapped... I've yet to confirm that last bit though. Hope I was helpful in educating you, God bless ♥️
@@ALivingFlame ngl that guy was pretty unnerving
You forgot to correct one misinformation in the team hooligan bonus video: pepsiman appears ONLY in the Japanese Saturn version, not the arcade or American version
Sonic Fighters IS Canon
I'm hoping she appears as like a background character in a future Christian Whitehead game
A background appearance would be a good start for sure
Blasphemer she deserves to be playable in a future Christian Whitehead Game. She's the only Female Classic Character other than Amy in the games & would be much easier to implement than Sally Acorn.
@@WaterKirby1994 pfftt you guys will never get over the Amy thing
Plz she's not Even that good of a charecter she's like the princess peach
Of the sonic series but just a unlikeable bich who simps for sonic
I can see honey making a cameo in a mania'ish game. Like have her be on a billboard promoting her shop in a city level.
Exactly! Honey is a remarkable Sonic character and needs to be in the Sonic family!
A bit of an update:
If anyone has gotten the "Free Comic Book Day" IDW Sonic comic or has seen it in some way, Honey does make a return (granted only two panels, but still nice to see they brought her back)!
I saw someone post that on Twitter. Very cool.
Awesome!
yep and just searching "idw free comic book day" does as easy of a job to find it!
Honey had more success in sonic than vipers
I'd agree with you on that
@Super Mario Michael Doesn't she appear in the comics?
I think you can attribute that to Fighting Vipers being kinda obscure in the West. As noted in the video, in Japan she became a popular character enough to inspire lots of cosplay. I actually wouldn't mind Sega taking another crack at Fighting Vipers in the modern age... and actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to Sonic the Fighters, either, on that note.
@@FancifulDancingStar Go for it!
Probably because Vipers is an extremely niche game that never got a continuation
I love that in the comics she’s the one who designed Amy’s dress. They really got on well together.
Honey's design manages to work wonderfully in both human and cat form. It is really cool that fan-interest has got her far more recognition than most scrapped characters can even dream of. The extra Pepsiman trivia was also neat.
I'm sure that it's already been commented but Honey finally showed up in the IDW comics! She was in the free comic book day issue yesterday, she doesn't speak sadly but it's great that she's finally been acknowledged since 2016 🙂
HAS SHE WHERE?
this is great news!! I loved her appearance in Archie when I was younger
Thanks. I saw it on Twitter, it was a cool little cameo.
Holy crap, that’s awesome!
Thanks for watching. Here's a correction:
- Pepsiman is ONLY in the Japanese SEGA Saturn version of Fighting Vipers. Not the arcade version or any US version. Not sure how I messed that one up.
Noooooooooo
He is god
Can you do a video on the Knothole Freedom Fighters. I've seen videos on Sally Acorn but no videos about Bunnie, Antoine, Rotor and Nicole. So it would be nice to see videos on those characters.
There was Fighting Vipers 2 game as well released in Japan and Europe for the dreamcast, the game was never released in the US
In that European version of the game, Candy renamed back to Honey.
A few things: Fighting Vipers was based on the Virtua Fighter 2 engine, not Virtua Fighter, which used Model1 hardware and not Model2. And... oh gosh you got to the part with Honey in StF... there's a bit of misinformation you're delivering here. Honey's eye transitions are fine actually, as evidenced when she is squished and hurt she closes her eyes, and when she is surprised by something like Amy's "Look Over Here! " attack or on the elevator to the final boss. Honey's body when squished does use Amy's assets, however Honey has assets of her own for squished body parts and Honey does have a VS screen portrait but goes unused in the Arcade version. Both of these were fixed in the 2012 re-release. In fact, in an interview with AM2 porting team when making the 2012 release, they found Honey's data on their own, most likely using debug mode. It was after this that they found fanart of Honey from the west when they searched for info about her. So I have no doubt Sega did acknowledge Honey on their own. Honey is not completely fixed in the 2012 version actually, her continue screen is missing her pigtails. As someone who was in that original thread from Sonic Cult, I would like to credit sonicblur, original discover of the character values, OmochaoAbuser who first used those values in an emulated environment, and myself who originally dug deeper and posted all the asset findings to Sonic Cult's site. Would have loved to have collabed on this one, but it is what it is.
Forgot to add my own speculation as to why Honey was removed from the arcade release, and that may have been a hardware limitation on rendering her pigtails. I have played with Honey on actual arcade hardware, and whenever there's a lot of movement by Honey (such as spamming barrier) her pigtails aren't rendered every frame. Footage of this can be found on my channel.
Thanks for the extensive feedback Rob, I appreciate it. It's disappointing to hear I fell victim of some false information online and included it here. Unlike my Ashura video, I didn't do any first-hand testing for this one and cobbled together a narrative from some online sources. It sounds like some of them weren't reliable. Thanks again for adding some useful corrections though. Hopefully I'll avoid stuff like this in the future.
@@JohnnyVector It's more that they weren't up to date than being reliable. I am admittedly the one who released most of that information and/or wasn't specific enough about that information to allow speculation and new information has been found since then that just hasn't spread far enough to replace the old information. The article on tcrf requires an extensive overhaul with the discovery of debug mode and it's been on my to-do list for quite some time. All in all, this is still a really great video, and I'm glad my old Sonic stomping grounds gets the credit here that has been overlooked for many years, ha!
@@JohnnyVector Last weird minor correction I also forgot until just now: Mirrored Honey by default has correct squished models. Go figure lol.
@@Biggestsonicfan you've just found a new viewer
I know others have said it here, but it seems like SEGA is keeping a close eye to some extent on Honey. she appears for two panels in the IDW Classic Sonic comics, and in a New Years art piece at the start of 2021. so it seems like Honey is indeed canon, but she's apart of the classic cast as opposed to the modern cast.
hey, it works for me.
I feel like Honey could be a fun inclusion in future Sonic games if given the opportunity. Although it was made by fans. Honey was made playable in Sonic Robo Blast 2 and she was a fun character for me to play as.
She is a great character just like Amy
Yeah, I've had a go with her on Sonic Robo Blast 2 as well. Good fun.
Man you’re absolutely crushing it with these videos. I’ve always loved Honey’s design, one of my favorite female sonic characters. I was thinking maybe you could do Tiara from Sonic Xtreme since she has a cool and unique design as well but the research might be difficult because the game never was released. I’ve only ever seen her used in sprite animations
Thanks a lot. I have considered Tiara, I think it'd make for a really cool video. Cheers for the suggestion
Yeah... If Honey the Cat is in the Canonically Unused Characters Limbo alongside the exclusive characters from the Archie and Fleetway comics, then Tiara the Manx is in the Canonically Non-existent Characters Limbo, alongside... idk, Madonna, Sonic's conceptual girlfriend?
I want playable character a the sequel of team sonic racing for 30 anniversary #sega
With Forces starting what may become a trend of customization I feel that Honey has a good chance of appearing in a future Sonic game. All that's left is to hope.
Honey would be a great addition to the classic roster, specially since they're basically trying split modern and classic nowadays.
I hope that one day Honey the cat will be playable in another Sonic game! Her design is really cute!
Her Ray and Mighty
Making Team Relic
Not just the design, but imagine the gameplay potential! A platformer with elements of a fighting game! Now that would be cool!
@@jakescartoons6045 there was actually a Honey the cat platformer at this year's fan game sage expo. It was pretty fun! You should check it out! It was called Chaos Dynasty Honey.
@@skeetermagee2487 Team Missingno
@@HistoryandReviews lol
I love the Sonic Cult disclaimer. It's true, the internet isn't there to baby-sit children, and there are places where they definitely shouldn't be hanging around. I wish people understood that and let adults be adults in peace instead of trying to censor them because "think of the children".
It's not about being adults. It's that they're being degenerates. They admit to as much with the last line.
@@PhillipH-san So children should be welcomed _because_ they are degenerates? You are not making much sense. They are trying to gatekeep children from their site.
By the way, what do you even mean by "degenerates" here?
@@inendlesspain4724 The owner of Sonic Cult is an RSO. (Can't say the actual words, because Susan could ban me for using them.)
@@TBONE_2004 Really? That's pretty bad. I'd heard other bad things about him as well so I'm not that surprised. Though it's still besides the point of my original comment.
I browsed it all the time and definitely don't remember that warning. Guess like most unsupervised kids who went there I just got used to ignoring it lol
when i was a kid around 2005-6-7 i discover deviantart and i loved to see oc of sonic, then this honey the cat appeared a lot in drawings, i never knew who she was, i believed was only a famous oc, it took me years to know she was an unused character from a very obscure sonic game nobody played, im still impressed how this character became so famous
And contrary to Tiary who was imagined by Sonic team but never present in a Sonic game, Honey did and was able to appear in Sonic IDW.
"No long forgotten character can entirely be written off" - except if you're an Penders-exclusive character haha
Sleuth Doggy Dogg was my favorite character
Or an improvement over said character as Scourge can attest, or a character that resembles them close enough as the Nocturne can attest.
7:25 i drew that! nostalgia! I did a lot of Honey art on Deviantart when I first found out about her back in the 00's.
I even ran the club on DA and made contests for people to do fanart also ='D
Hey now that I have the opportunity I just want to let you know that I loved the other art you made of her. I remember coming across it when I first discovered Honey the Cat when I was a kid and I thought she was very cute. Did you happen to draw the one titled “.:ZERO GRAVITY:.” that is on DeviantArt?
It only says it's by “honeythecat-club” so I'm wondering if you did it as well since it looks kind of similar to your art.
I have a idea in lapse. A spin-off game focused on the cats of the Sonic Universe, like Blaze, Big, and Honey of course. Well, I would give it a try.
I love her design so much. I wish she appeared in modern games.
She is so unique and I feel she'd fit in well
Wonderful video! Didn't know Honey appeared in the comics, always something to learn!
Thank you very much
@0:36
Yeah, she's a cat girl wearing a kind of Gothic Lolita dress, idk how you get more iconic than that.
She Just recently appeared in IDW as a cameo in the Free Comic Book Day 30th Anniversary Comic!
Thanks. I saw someone post that on Twitter. Very cool.
It took me a month to watch this video, but I finally got around to it!
It's neat to see Honey getting some love in current year, I was always fascinated by the story of her existence (and probably had a crush back in the day)
It was really cool to see her get referenced in the whole free comic sonic birthday thing too, as many have pointed out already.
Good video as usual!! It's awesome to see one of the guys responsible for finding her in the first place in the comments, as well!!
Yeah, if Mighty; Ray; Fang; Bean; and Bark get to make appearances (albeit only cameos in the case of the latter three) in Sonic video games, Honey sure as hell deserves to reappear in at least that vein.
I agree with that
Overall a good look at Honey the Cat, but there are a few inconsistencies here and there you might have overlooked or simplified to shorten the video.
1: Fighting Vipers is actually built over Virtua Fighter 2 and employs all of the new innovations (for the time) that were introduced by VF2, like texture mapping, and it was built on the Sega Model 2 arcade hardware.
2. Armstone City isn't actually explicitly in America, but its heavily based around western themes and the stage Old Armstone Town (a theme park) is even dressed up to look like an old wild west town (Similarly, Bahn is clearly supposed to be Japanese, and is the only character that doesn't speak English, but his character bio states he's from "an island nation")
3. Honey's armor is usually said to be some sort of plastic or rubber material, not leather (Fun Fact: her blue player 2 costume is made of a thicker and heavier material and its skirt reacts to wind effects different from the red outfit!)
4. Her undergarments are visible across all versions of the game. The western release only removed the cheat that allows you to remove Honey's skirt when her armor is broken, making it much easier to see her thong. The black bra(?) is always visible when her armor is broken in all versions and underskirt peeks at her skimpy underwear are not uncommon, especially with her high kicks.
5. Pepsiman is NOT in the Japanese Arcade version OR the Western Saturn version. He is only in the Japanese Saturn version, along with a few special costumes for Honey that were cut for western audiences too!
6. She's much harder to spot, but along with the Lunar fox, Rocket Metal Sonic, and Player 2 Honey the Cat, the default color red and yellow Honey the Cat is in the same scene in the Fighting Vipers Saturn intro! She's at the very top left just before the scene cuts, so she's a bit harder to spot!
7. Though Honey's character data is built around Amy, her moveset is almost an exact copy of Knuckles (minus his spindash) and a couple of Amy's moves that resemble her FV counterpart, like the bootie bop.
8. Honey doesn't use Amy's fighting stance, and instead has one that mirrors her FV counterpart.
9. Sonic the Fighters isn't necessarily non-canon, however Honey is restricted currently to being in the Classic Sonic universe ONLY since STF was set in the Classic World. Sega is fairly strict these days about what characters are allowed to show up when and where, after the Archie comics series was cancelled, IDW (the new publisher) has been very strictly monitored about which characters are allowed to be featured and WHERE. Mighty, Ray, Bean, Bark, and Fang/Nack are all allowed to be in the Classic Comics, but not the main series. This extends even further to HOW a character is portrayed and characterized, and Honey is in a bit of a pickle since she doesn't exactly have a canon SONIC personality. So outside of some cameo appearances in Classic Sonic content I doubt we will see much of her anytime soon.
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It wasn't really the focus of the video but even more coverage of Honey's human counterpart would have been really cool! A quick story breakdown of Fighting Vipers 1 and 2, her inclusion in Fighters Megamix alongside Bean and Bark, alternate costumes, and other cameo appearances of Human Honey would have been really interesting to see if you wanted to get really in depth, but then it would be more of a Fighting Vipers Honey video instead of a Honey the Cat video.
These details were mostly nitpicks, this was still a really good look at Honey the Cat's history and origin and its always nice for people to be exposed to more Honey and Fighting Vipers!
Thanks. You're right, a few points weren't expanded upon for the sake of brevity but a few inaccuracies definitely needed correcting. I am not sure how I messed up the Pepsiman bit so much.
Ah you went into this in much more detail than I could have Sherlock! Thank you for chiming in! I didn't have concrete proof for some of this so I'm glad you did. I wanted to add the red material in her outfit being plastic/rubber and the armor removal. The only thing here is with the current dump of the Fighting Vipers ROM (Rev D), when setting the region to USA it does remove all the Pepsi branding, but the skirt armor removal cheat of 100 wins in a row does indeed work. If a proper USA dump is found, I will investigate if the cheat still works or not, heh.
@@Biggestsonicfan ah you're right I don't remember for sure if it the Western arcade releases have the skirt thing or not, I think the Western Saturn version removed it though!
The problem with honey is she very never intended to existed. She not a fan character she a scrapped character that was modded back into the game and her official debut in the franchise is the 2012 remake. She popular but it's like we haven't seen much off her due to sega not knowing what do with such a gray area charcter.
@@chaotik900 That's a mighty bold claim with no evidence to back that up. Did you even watch the video?
If Honey ever becomes playable in a mainline Sonic platformer, I'd love for the developers to mix the platforming controls with some of the fighting mechanics from Fighting Vipers. If they did that, Honey would be my preferred character to play as in that game because of how much I love Fighting Vipers.
She would make a great Shopkeeper NPC if we ever got another Sonic Themed RPG
I know you probably heard this hundreds of times by now, but Honey actually ended up appearing as a background character in one of the anniversary comics.
If there's ever another Sonic fighting game I'm sure she'll be in it.
Now here is a character I’ve never ever heard of. Great video.
Would love to see at least a billboard for her clothing in a new game. Also you should Sonics knights of the round table or emerl
A billboard would be a nice, fitting nod
She needs to become a permanent character. Considering how few female Sonic characters their are compared to the male cast, and the fact in the IDW they're creating new strong well rounded female characters, keeping her hidden just shouldn't be happening. (Also bring back Team Hooligan for the love of everything! They need to stop locking them to the "classic era".
I remember when I first bought an Archie Sonic Comic where Honey appeared in a fighting tournament and I knew right away she was a Vipers Easter egg.
Honestly we don't get enough cat Mobians in Sonic, the only other one I can think of is Blaze. Which sucks because Honey and Blaze (which sounds like a kind of sweet hotsauce when I say their names together) have some of the coolest designs. I know she's shown up in the 'free comic book day' IDW comics, and I really hope she shows up for real sometime in the future.
Don't forget Big!
You should do some of the other sonic mechs other than metals sonic. I think it’s an alright idea.
Great idea, thanks. Mecha Sonic in Sonic & Knuckles was always my favourite metallic Sonic design.
Speaking of knuckles, metal knuckles could be interesting as well.
Oh yeah. I mean, there are so many. Not counting the ones from the comics or cartoons, there's Silver Sonic (called Robo Sonic in Lego Dimensions) from StH2; Silver Sonic (the one that's :]) from the Game Gear game that also appeared in Sonic Mania; there's Metal Sonic from Sonic CD, we all know this one; Mecha Sonic from S3&K, the first one to go Super; Metal Sonic Kai from Knuckles Chaotix, who used a huge Dark Ring to become a monstrosity (which inspired the looks of Giga Metal Sonic in Sonic Mania); there's the unused Mechagodzilla-looking Silver Sonic II in Sonic Adventure, stuck in a tube; there's Metal Sonic 3.0 from Sonic Rivals 2, made by Eggman NEGA; there's Rocket Metal Sonic, aka Mecha Sonic Model No.29 from Sonic the Fighters; there's Neo Metal Sonic, a powered up form of Metal Sonic, which later becomes Metal Overlord, from Sonic Heroes; and I bet there's one or two I have missed.
Honey the Cat - Sega: That glitch character? Yeah we'll save that and use it again np
Hyper Sonic - Sega: ......
I loved this look at her history. I like Fighting Vipers a lot and I knew the basic jist of the story, but having it fleshed out with all the details and especially seeing Honey's original incarnation in action loaded into the arcade version was really cool. Great work.
She looks like a great character on both games, maybe they could give her a struggling entrepreneur back story to make her more interesting,
I actually would play her if she ever returns without any hesitation or embarrassment.
Bark and Bean are technically canon, but only really appear in easter eggs, sort of. They both appear on a wanted poster in Generations and as illusions alongside Fang in the heavy magician fight in Mania, so if they're canon, it's likely Honey is too.
As far as video suggestions go, how about Metal Knuckles or Tails Doll from Sonic R? Tails Doll isn't necessarily forgotten, so to speak, given his reputation online thanks to certain stories, but he does have a little bit of history outside of that!
Thanks! The Game Apologist did a cool video on Metal Knuckles but I have been considering Tails Doll. I think he'd be the perfect character to cover in October.
Honey the cat
Blaze the cat
Big the cat??? HOW MANY CATS ARE THERE?????
A lot if you want to also count background cats or cats that appeared in other media.
Like the Adrien Agreste from Miraculous Ladybug cameo in one of the comics in which they made him a cat.
I wish Sonic Team would make a Sonic game where every character (except comics) makes an appearance and many are playable like SA1. All the obscure ones showing up would be nice
I think Honey the Cat just became my favorite Sonic character other than Knuckles. She sounds pretty cool.
Awesome!
Honey the Cat has been added to Roblox Sonic R-echarged. I thought she was a non-canon female variant of Charmy the Bee
I'd love to hear you talk about Dr. Fintevus from the Archie Comics!
Interesting choice. My next video will feature a short reference to Dr. Fintevus but I'll consider a full-blown video in the future.
@@JohnnyVector Is it wechnia. 🤨
@@JohnnyVector You've peaked my interest.
she's also back in IDW with the free comic that was realised
I’m not the biggest Sonic fan (compared to the original) but damn this channel is amazing. You give so much content for characters I’d never heard of and it’s really well-done
Great video, informative and well spoken!
I love Honey! I have a Sonic project that's been in the works for some time now. If everything goes according to plan, it could be huge...
And you better believe Honey's a part of it!!
Keep your eyes open for it, it all starts... with a white cassette tape.
Awesome. Best of luck with the project, sounds intriguing!
Nice to know that fighting vipers was released nearly 1000 years in the future
Honey had a small Easter egg in the idw comics and she has appeared in official art recently
I was recommended this video after coming across Honey in SomecallmeJohnny's Sonic spin-off video.
Johnny Vector: "It's high time Honey reappears in a new Sonic game"
Me: "It's high time just about any character other than Sonic, Tails and Eggman reappear in a new Sonic game. The Sonic series has been neglecting other characters ever since Sonic Unleashed!"
She did appear in a panel in a free comic book day issue for IDW, but that was about it.
I quite enjoyed her depiction in the Archie comics. Would love it if she had a similar role / depiction in the IDW series someday, but I hear SEGA wants character like Mighty, Ray, Fang and (probably) Honey to become "Classic Sonic" exclusives for some strange reason.
Well Sega as a business saw the marketing potential of Classic Sonic but they didn't really want to explain how the newer Classic Sonic games fit in the timeline so they split it off so they could continue marketing Classic Sonic without clashing with Modern Sonic (Forces did a horrible job at this) and since most of the cast didn't exist during the Classic era they decided to use old characters that they haven't used in a long time as Sonic backup cast they kept them classic exclusive so that way they don't have to explain why they haven't appear in a game for a long time
I love this series, it would be interesting to see a Chaos 0 video ( I was going to ask one for Void, Lumina Flowlight and Illumina, but they only appear in one game and I feel like you might have more to work with Chaos) Keep up the good work. ^-^
I feel like Honey could be like a waluigi sort of character in the way that he is a staple spinoff character
This is the one character I never knew anything about she just randomly appeared in the Sonic forces mobile game and I've never heard about her since
As was already commented, Honey did appear in the FCBD IDW comic. Since Mania, Sega has stated that they want to keep the two canons, "classic" (pre-Adventures) and "modern" (Adventures onwards), well differenciated adn moving from Archie to IDW was part of this idea. Honey is part of the classic canon and like Fang, Ray, Bark, Bean or the Sonic Band, will never* appear in the modern timeline in the IDW comics (*unless they change their minds, but that's the current plan), for keeping some exclusive characters for the classic stories. Charmy, Vector and Mighty might be supposed to appear in both, but I'm not sure about this.
Actually sonic the fighters characters are on wanted posters in sonic generations which means that sonic the fighters is canon
I don't think we'll ever see Honey again mostly because I think Sonic has way too many characters as is in both games and comics. But I'll be pleasantly surprise if she did.
Pengo is technically Canon. He was planned for Bark's stage and appeared in some other titles I think
That's cool, I didn't know that one. Thanks for sharing
can you do manic
a sonic mania DLC that adds both honey and amy where both have unique play style would be amazing
Agreed. I've seen some gorgeous sprite art of Honey in a Mania-style by some fans. It looks great.
I doubt they'll release DLC for that game at this point though.
@@inendlesspain4724 sadly... Sega are idiots
Maybe not getting too many secondary characters was a good idea because it's why the series's quality dropped
@@ikagura That's not true. There are so many other factors as to why the later games dropped in quality, and if anything Sonic's friends don't show up as often in those titles.
She's a Sonic character named after a character from Fighting Vipers and Fighters Mega Mix. I knew as soon as I saw the outfit.
I’ve been binging your videos for the past hour, I’m subscribing now!😌
She actually is in the idw comic, sonics 30th anniversary comic Amy draws comic strips for all the mobians in town ; tails then hands them out around town and not of them is Honey and towards the end u can spot her worried with the crowd when sonic shows up.
Awesome, thanks for sharing
@@JohnnyVector typically at the moment it is canonical in sonics past because the comic and question is of younger sonic tales and Amy so technically it would be canonical in the video game world
Manic the Hedgehog!
I think Sonic Underground isn´t canon but I absolitly love the Character and am sad that he was only in that series
Thanks for the suggestion. Manic & Sonia would be interesting. I haven't watched Sonic Underground in a looong time.
I remember playing as her a lot in the PS3 re-release, it was also the first sonic game I ever played.
3:38 "In short, Honey was a little bit too sexualised for American audiences." Rouge: Allow me to introduce myself. (Yes I know she was designed in Japan but Sega America let it slide)
Let's see if she will come back in sonic mania 2, since she is a character from the classic era.
The first I've seen honey was in the IDW comics, she also joined the fighting tournament to show off her fashion
Nice. Now do Mighty The Armadillo and Ray The Flying Squirrel next!
Petition for sega to bring back honey in future sonic games
Regarding canonicity, while Fang/Nack did exist beforehand (Triple Trouble), Bean and Bark were introduced in the Fighters, and yet all three reappeared in Mirage Saloon Zone in Sonic Mania. Granted, they were illusions by the Heavy Magician, but they had wanted posters confirming their existence within the "Classic Sonic" timeline. Sonic Mania's very existence functions upon the idea of the classic adventures being a separate canon, while the main adventures exist within the Modern timeline, that being Sonic Adventure onwards. This, combined with the reintroduction of Mighty and Ray from Segasonic, means that Honey the Cat could absolutely be a canon character, just one who simply exists exclusively in that same "classic timeline," like Fang, Bean, Bark, Mighty, Ray, and heck, even Heavy, Bomb, Metal Knuckles and the Tails Doll- characters who appeared in maybe one or two games but were never heard from again beyond Sonic Adventure.
When considering how the biggest design changes when comparing Classic to Modern are always the clothing choices (most notable comparing Classic and Modern Amy) it makes me wonder if Honey, if given a modern counterpart, would also have a different outfit- especially considering how that's the core of her entire character- but I suppose we'll never know. The only way I see her returning is in a Sonic Mania sequel, another the Fighters rerelease, or some other, more original excursion into the classic timeline handled by the Whitehead team- but the likelihood of that happening after Origins is slim to none. I'd be more than happy to be wrong about that, though.
I can confirm that since this video was released, Honey has made a cameo in the IDW Sonic Free Comic Book Day, so there’s that
LITERALLY MY CAT IS NAMED HONEY AND SHE LOOKS JUST LIKE HER
ORANGE CAT WITH GOLDEN EYES
IM LOSING MY MIND
I actually remember in one of my Sega Saturn Magazines back in the day, it had a picture of Honey from Fighting Vipers in a black revealing dress! My parents didn't approve, so they drew over it! I was livid! (I was 9 at the time)
i honestly hope she appears in more games
I fell like many characters are saved by fans
I remember first discovering honey the cat. I was playing sonic fighters when I pressed a button on amy and changed her character. I did'nt know what I did then, but I eventually realized which button I pressed. (I was on my PS4 and don't remember now.)
Imagine being a chao and some big ass cat pets you with their fist and forces you to eat.
And she did show up in the Mini Comic about Classic Amy!
She looks like an OC I sent in asking to be canonized when I was 7-12. However I don't think the timeline lines up and don't think she's my oc Luna.
Be cool u made a history of Mighty & Ray I really enjoy you're content man fun to watch & fun to learn about someone even a big Sonic fan myself didn't know of
Also note I didn't know Sonic gems Collection was on ps2
Woukld be awsome to see Honey make a triumphate return to the Sonic Franchise. their are loads of charecters they could bring in you know.
Funnily enough, in IDWs Free Comic Book Day 30th Anniversary comic, Honey cameos as one of Amy's friends in the Classic Universe.
Next Sonic game should see Honey running the in game store like the merchant from RE4
Good on the fans for working hard to bring Honey the Cat out of the obscurity and into the canon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Breezy is from AOSTH right? Interesting that she made an Archie appearance too!
Yeah right! I love the fact that Archie drew inspiration from a lot of different sources.
This legit just appeared in my suggested feed after someone on a message board mentioned her and I was morbidly curious and did a Google search.
Ngl she looks INCREDIBLE
Pretty obscure sorta guest character her look sticks out from the other cast members but I like her visual looks
sonic the hedgehog said o0n twitter "Everything is canon"
14:20 Honey actually made a recent cameo in the 2021 Free Comic Book Day IDW issue in 2 panels
If honey would get to appear again, she would probably appear as a "Classic Sonic Character Only" which is good imo but ehh...
There was a story floating around in some ofnow defunct sonic forums. That spoke of this character and how someone discovering it when they were modifying an arcade cabinet. Similar to how people used to hack pacman to get Mrs. Pacman. This predated the ease of digital cameras and most people just this person was full of it and dismissed their claim.
I''m sure someone has pointed this out, but I like how Bahn looks pretty much exactly like Jotaro Kujo
I forgot this character existed thanks for reminding me man 👍
What about doing a video on the different characters In the sonic shows (aosth, satam, etc).