As both a motorcycle and an EV enthusiast I have to say the main reason that electric bikes haven’t gained traction is two fold. Firstly, the range isn’t there yet. Bikes need to be able to go about 200km on the highway to be useable. The second reason is when you then go to charge the bike, they generally charge much slower than the cars and there is often nowhere to sit in comfort while the bike is charging.
Problem is that motorised bicycles are horrendously unaerodynamic. The industry has to think of making better PTWs (powered two wheelers) instead of slapping engines into heavy bicycle frames they should consider aerodynamics, weather protection, comfort and luggage capacity and they could be making better electric vehicles for our congested cities.
They have one that does 100 miles per charge. The extra 24 miles should be doable. The charging is getting better overall. It should be 15 minutes to give 90% charge.
In the United States (where I am) in most places, motorcycles are mostly for fun. If it were for commuting in traffic, an electric motorcycle with no gears would be better. But if the bike is strictly for fun, gears could not only add fun, but could increase range and performance. I'm no luddite, trust me, I'm as interested in an electric future as anybody.
I Was an electrical engineer for the company that manufactured the wiring harnesses for harley davidson's high volume manufacturing. Twenty years ago, (I was a tesla fan then) and I remember telling the other engineers that it was going to be an electric future and they all laughed me out of the office.
@@steven4315 Hm.. maybe he meant a Tesla fan as in his avatar. Although, technically Tesla the company was founded 20 years ago but they didn't have a car yet or Elon Musk.
@@steven4315 He may have read the same article I did in "Wired" magazine about what actually led to the forming of the Tesla company. I challenge anyone to find the article now. It has been buried. 'No mention of Tesla or Elon Musk in the article, but it made me an instant fan of EVs.
I currently own five Harleys, one of which is an original 2020 HD electric Livewire, which I have had for about two years. I very much enjoy them all, but I have to say the HD Livewire is becoming my favorite "daily around town rider." I say, “daily around town,” because you certainly are not going cross country riding on this motorcycle (mainly due to infrastructure limitations), but I am averaging about 120+ miles per charge each day on this motorcycle, so not really a problem. The riding response is something out of a Star Wars movie and it is most convenient to simply plug it in at the end of the day and it's ready to go the next morning. You quickly become addicted to the "joy of instant torque." Yes, I still enjoy the sound of an ICE motorcycle, but after a short time the joy of the silent immediate response and “all you hear is the wind” becomes highly desirable too. I applaud Harley Davidson for their long-term view and keeping their eyes on the future. The ICE motorcycle will be around for decades, but the electric based motorcycle is coming. I often hear some "old riders" saying “I will never ride an electric.” Well, I remember the same comments about electric starters vs. kick, belt drive vs. chain, fuel injection vs. carburation, etc. We HD riders are sometimes slow to accept change, but change is coming. Let's enjoy the ride!
Motorcyclists in general of the older age group are a very conservative bunch, who don't really want fundamental change. I'm a motorcyclist, but I'm also an environmentalist, and appreciate that change is required. I no longer ride my 2000 ICE Honda 800VFR
About the noise...it seems that very recently some people are actually trying to see just how much noise they can make with their vehicles of ANY type, and the diesel pickups are THE loudest. It seems like a sort of protest against EVs but EVs are the future so whatever it takes to get more and better charging stations, so be it. More EV production of ALL types will give the incentive for that.
My son designed and built an electric motor bike almost 10 years ago for his final project at RMIT Industrial design . When we were filming and testing it in the beautiful Dandenong ranges we were stopped by Harley riders . He had used Harley forks and because it had ch a in drive did tend to have a bit of a noise. They all were impressed and talked about Harly electric motor bikes in a very positive way. Roll on ekectric bikes . They were discussing giving them a distinctive sound not unlike the sounds the ev's migjt be given at low speeds.
My old geezer neighbor and his geezer buddies are all Harley riders, and naturally they think all that noise makes them look really cool. I think they are a bunch of rude jackasses. This may break their hearts.
I ride a Zero S. If Harley can integrate a level 3 charger into their bikes where the charge time from 0 to 100 is under 20 mins, this might work. The prob right now is there is no good fast charging network like Tesla's supercharging stations which is no good for motorcyclists as we like to go touring and such. But yea, Harley's are dead in the water, nobody wants them going forward. They have to change their business model. EV motorcycle is the way to go.
Harleys - as they come from the factory - are not obnoxiously loud. It's the friggin' owners who make it their 1st priotity to put on after-mraket mufflers and then take out baffles who generate all the loud noise for the attention and a feeling of significance. As Harley transitions to e-bikes, there will be great Push-Back and abandonment by the Old Guard who want to retain their "Rolling Thunder".
THANK GOD. I hear absurdly loud motorcycles daily. I already have some hearing loss, I don't need more, and I'll guarantee at the point you lose much, you'll wish to heaven you are fully hearing.
As a former Harley owner I want to remind Sam that they start out well mufflered, not quiet like a Bmw, but reasonably quiet, then many, usually young owners modify the exhaust. I personally want an electric trail motorcycle, light, nimble and quiet!
Check out the new Surron Ultra Bee! I have been riding the small Surron light bee on trails and have had a ton of fun. The new ultra bee is basically everything I wish the light bee was. I’m a lifelong motocross rider and have owned 10 Harley’s. I currently still have 2 Harley’s. That being said, the electric bikes are SO much fun. Do some research on those. 🤙🏼
I'm not a motorcycle guy, but I had a friend who loved his custom "Soft Tail". He rode it to work (in Silicon Valley) every day, and was very active on Usenet (yes, I'm that old). He has since died, but I can say that he would have appreciated your right to make this video, and then he would have given you the middle finger. I accidentally attended the Sturgis Rally on a trip across the U.S. with my son, and the people were friendly and welcoming.
@@mrh3085 Yes and No. Smaller groups and the general riding community perhaps but I live in an area where the Hells Angeles run a toys for tots charity but at the same time run one of the most prolific meth trades in area with dozens of murders linked to them over the last 30 years in this area alone. Racketeering and all sorts of gang like activities, not to mention violent clashes with other biker clubs/gangs are also prevalent. That's just one group, there's actually 10 other groups/gangs that the FBI considers more dangerous than the Hells Angels.
I'm not a biker but I can appreciate the love for harleys.theyr loud,proud and look great,the japanese sad copies are just that,sad..EV car fans like me know what harleys are about and can't imagine a quite civilised BIKER'S bike going round silently,whats the point?? Imagine a BIKER'S meet without a single harley exhaust note...
I think an obstacle to big electric motorcycles up to date has been battery density. That’s why most electric bikes and scooters are commuters. BUT now with the new 500w/kg density batteries . . . . !!!!
One huge problem with electric bikes. Range in the middle of nowhere. Some of us riders ride to get far into nature for days or weeks at a time. We can take external tanks. Not possible with electric for a generation or so. Check Ewan McGregor on his Long Way Up ride through South America on an electric Harley. Major headache is an understatement.
@@simonscofield8825 I agree what's the hurry ? EVs are reducing pollution every day and selling in the millions,we can still have cool stuff like harleys and save the planet..
If you hate how loud Harley’s are, try living next to Sturgis during Rally week. Two weeks of non stop bikes 24hrs a day. 500k bikers in a normal population area of about 200k people. It’s insane. But that won’t change if Harley switches to all electric. Bikers will just switch to Indian or some other brand.
I live on an otherwise quiet mountain road. The a group of overweight, middle aged men who love to regularly roar up and down the road. If they want to ride their silent electric Harleys, that would be fine. The problem is that until a significant number of the obnoxious noise polluters end up in the tip, they will remain a problem.
Plaid pipes any sound you want inside and out better than the mechanical sounds. Close your eyes and you'll always pick the digital exhaust over ice/mufflers.
I love your Tesla comments, But, you don't get the motorcycle world or the alure. It's about the cruise and the American sounds. Respectfully, there is no war HD is going all electric any time soon. Thanks for your EV content.
I rode a Harley for years and I can say unequivocally that "loud pipes save lives" is very true. It lets others Motorist know you are there and maybe not to lane change without checkin their mirrors and smearing you across the highway. I can also say that some guys are just assholes and love the attention and irritating others. There's no accounting for taste or motivation.
That piece of motorcycle mythology has never been anything more than a threadbare justification for obnoxious people being obnoxious, without a shred of any study ever backing it up. I've ridden for about half a century, and worked at a shop that sold European bikes for about five years. The Beemer and Guzzi riders racked up ridiculous miles, quietly, with no real accidents - the only customer we lost during the time I worked there was a guy who had a Ducati Mike Hailwood replica - which had race pipes that would rattle the shop windows when we started it up. We had one smashed-up Bonneville parts bike from before I started working there - the owner had bought it from the widow when the insurance company tried to screw her - that was a case of too much alcohol, too much speed and one too many bridge abutments. The Triumph had stock mufflers - no doubt straight pipes would have saved him.
This is great news Sam! Harley’s are noisy industrial nightmares. Have always wondered how they pass registration, when no car would be allowed to make that much noise. Looking forward to quieter, cleaner, safer transport!
Viking I’m stoked too, this is industry leadership on show, Harley is one of the great survivors of the motorcycle world. Their existing power plant platforms will not be able to pass new emissions and efficiency standards without major redesign. So rather than spend a heap of coin and waste time turd polishing, they have realised its time to get with the program. Live wire is an awesome machine but I’m an Italian motorcycle fan, so I’m also excited to see Ducati deeply involved in electric motorcycles as well. Both companies are great survivors true Marques, who have reinvented themselves several times good luck to them both. Once range and charging speed sorted I’m in 🏍️
You're going to see people saying that those who ride electric bikes drink Bud Light. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just watch amurican politics for 10 minutes.
Im a huge motorcycle fan. Ive had so much enjoyment from them all my life. However I totally agree Sam. The noise is unnecessary and unwelcome. I own a Tesla and Id love to own an electric motorcycle
If you live in the countryside of any country you can forget about an electric bike, 100 mile tops if you ride like a saint, this could be Harley’s Bud Light moment.
100% agreed. Harleys are iconic for a reason and it’s not because of their tech. If they’re dumb enough to go full electric they deserve to go bankrupt.
Great news! I am a motorcyclist but have never owned a Harley, precisely because they are heavy, loud and obnoxious. (Like many of their owners?) Harley recognise the changing market, and will probably survive.
I don't understand what they benefit by saying that. H. D. Culture is famous for its loyal religion like following here in the US. Why would you alienate your customer base telling them they are soon a thing of the past? Okay I understand the livewire brand and hope it does very well. Most Harley guys don't even want to look at it.
They're basically a clothing brand at this point, but EV motorcycles don't sell the image they try to portrait, so this is gonna be something interesting to see when they crash and burn
Many Amer. have a curious mindset that they have the God & constitutional given right to blast eardrum shattering ruckus while next to you at a stoplight or wake you at 1AM to announce their presence. It is confused with freedom.
I met a guy that works for Harley Davidson at their Yucca Arizona test track. He told me that the electric Harleys are too heavy and they don't have enough range. He wasn't a fan, but the technology keeps evolving so I'm sure they can improve the experience.
Yup excellent news. Thanks for the video. Good work. I am a motorcycle "guy" and I can't stand Harley and Indian bikes. I have a dealer right down the street from me. They have a damned meeting every two weeks in summer. Use your imagination to contemplate how lame that is... I'll wait. Their sales were so terrible they had to shut the showroom down for months. Take the hint Motorcycle makers.
Greetings from Phuket Couldn't agree more about these bold headed or gray-haired old boys living in the past with their noisy Harleys. I got 4 MC's, but all with original low noise exhaust pipes. Electric I'm looking forward to, but not right now as the range is too low.
Totally with you here Viking! I had a Honda Goldwing because it was so quiet you often didn't hear them pass. Yeah yeah the Harley folks would say the noise announces their presence and that is safer. Actually the noise made me want to run them over. So not sure about that "safety" thing when you are engendering that kind of feeling in everyone. Good thing they were faster. Maybe they will put wooden slats in their wheel spokes to make annoying noise like kids did many years ago??? However I think this is going to be a fast transfer when the price of gas goes through the roof as gas/diesel refineries start shutting down due to lack of demand. Harley will have to go full electric really quick then.
You are comparing a want (Motorcycle) to a need (Automobile) There’s a greater chance owning a car will become less relevant before owning a motorcycle does.
@@mrh3085 Not sure who you were responding to? Did you mean to respond directly to Sam or to my comment? My original comment above doesn't talk of needs or cars?
@@nickmcconnell1291 pointing out the lack of logic in this entire thread. You wanting to “run them over” is not only childish it would be considered assault with a deadly weapon. Be careful what you wish for because most Harley riders and their friends will respond in kind.
@@mrh3085 Hmmmm not sure how what I said was "illogical" as it has to do with feelings which are not logical things to begin with? Anyway, I have no ill will against any motorcycle rider, being one myself, and would never act on that impulse. However I do abhor those bikes that are intentionally modified to sound as loud as possible. I consider having my ear drums ruined as an assault..... not to mention the wildlife around the area that probably died of fright. However all is a mute point here since eventually Harleys and Goldwings, etc. will all soon go electric and the older ones won't be able to find or afford gas as refinery after refinery closes. I'm sure everyone will say to themselves "Oh it will be decades before that happens"...... however I am convinced that it will happen within one decade because of soon to be gas scarcity and new laws going into place. Refining gas becomes uneconomical very quickly when demand drops only around 20%. Refinery margins are minuscule. We will be at that 20% around the end of 2025. Refineries will start closing one by one. Now I have to figure out how to convert my gas lawn tractor to electric! I am waiting to see if Husqvarna or 3rd party brings out a kit to do that. Hope so. We all will breath a little easier and enjoy the rides in nature a little more knowing we aren't disturbing it by being there. And won't it be great when you can hear the conversations of other riders around you while cruising?
EH from 🇨🇦. Unfortunately the Livewire is 2x the price, and half the range of a gas Harley. The Livewire also needs level 2 charging for home charging.
Love the sound of Harley's. New Harleys are never loud. Only when people put different exhaust on it. But that goes for cars to. Never heard it at night, . . .what we do hear . . . . . . DOGS, I hate the sound of dogs, endlessly barking in the evening and night. Also every morning waking up because several neighbours have dogs that need to go out and start barking again. Idiots. I also love the electric Harley and did a testride on the Livewire and several other electric bikes. Livewire was a fun ride, but with a max range of 150km and at €34.000 it was way to expansive. When cheaper, and more range, it could be a good bike.
I’m all for freedom of choice and don’t need the government to tell me how to live my life. I say let the market decide. Personally I’ll stick with my built V-Twin with aftermarket 2 into 1 exhaust.
@@mrh3085 As long as so many people are allowed to have barking dogs that keep me out of my sleep every single day, i will also keep my 2 in 1 exhaust on my 2002 FXDL.
Harley is doomed and there’s nothing they can do about it. Their core customer won’t be around that long or too old to ride anymore. The EV Livewire is a failure due to high price. Harley doesnt have the cost structure to produce low cost EV bikes in these bad economic times. Foreign companies will lead the way.
@@mikadavies660 There are two kinds of motorcycles. 1) Foot rests are under the rider, and you lean into the wind (sport bike.) 2) The foot rests are under the handlebars, and you lean back in your rolling easy chair (HOG). No one has made #2 yet with an electric bike. No one.
@@mikadavies660 I wouldn't worry about the name- it's about the riding experience. I want the traditional Harley easy-chair bike without the noise. No one is making those yet. I can't wait to see one as a chopper.
I feel your pain mate. I lived in Tokyo for about 2 years, and a bloke delivered newspapers every friggen morning on a scooter at 3AM. He rev'd the absolute crap out of that 125cc engine ha ha. Kinda wish Honda and Co. would make a little runaround with comparable speed and performance of a 125 ie: Honda Cub. They teased this years ago, but still no sign. Maybe one day
@@stuz32 -; they do have an E-Cub, but in terms of performance it's probably closer to the original 50cc Cub. Probably the closest right now is the Honda PCX electric - 4.2. Kw and a top speed of 37 mph. Honda is promising three classes of vehicles, EB, EM, and EV. The EB is the electric bike category, the PCX is almost certainly in the EM class and we should see at least three bikes coming out in the EV class this year that have a bit more power.
I go back to ARPANET and USENET (alt.goodmorning, anyone?) My first bike was a 1942 Indian, and I have over 400,000 miles on 2 wheels. My next vehicle will be an Aptera.
agree hate loud motorcycles as well. I currently have ev motorbike for comuting and it is great. But the range is limited, that has to be sad. But with the 500Wh/kg battery ev motorcycles going to be awesome. I can even see two speed gearboxes on them.
You may have overplayed the intro... and Harleys sound amazing (but not at 2am). That's part of the struggle: EV's are badass, but they don't sound like what we're accustomed to badass sounding like.
Can't say I would liken this choice to the Bud light debacle? But Harley fans will be disappointed. However this will make all of the gas powered bikes more desirable to that crowd and valuable In the future. Nostalgia is a powerful thing especially for Americans
My father in law is going to be PISSED off!!! He is a Massive Harley fan, has always given me so much crap for owning an EV, ahhhh the writing is on the wall now my friend
I can see HD coming up with an electric cruiser bike either in 2 wheeled form, about the size of their V-Rods, or a cruising trike the size of their current gas-powered trikes. The 2 wheeled version alone would have at least 25% more range (cruiser frames can mount a bigger battery pack), but H-D would probably equip it, due to demand from their die-hard customers, a recorded version of their distinctive "potato-potato" sound.
Bravo for H-D. I studied Harley-Davidson case studies in business graduate school back in 1994. Harley-Davidson is a very adaptive company. It gives them longevity. Thanks as always for your well-researched content that is not found on any other EV/E channels.
Harley may be adaptive, but Harley riders are not, otherwise the V-Rod would have been the power plant in all Harleys within a couple of years. Buell had some minor success making Harley's actually usable, but hardly bought Buell and Harley riders killed it.
Battery tech is WAAAAY OFF for motorcycles. Urban commuters maybe but for ADV and tourers NOPE not enough range vs weight etc, making advances though. Harley is more than Braaap BRAAAP also. History, nostalgia etc but yes there’s a certain amount of testosterone involved. Keep up all the great videos :)
I call them "Noisy Davidsons". They sound like a belching old tractor at idle but do sound more like a V8 at higher rpms but they are always too loud. I have owned four of them and three Victorys and ran stock mufflers. I don't ride to attract attention and have people look at me. I ride to enjoy the ride. Can't say I am ready for an EB to do the traveling I do but I enjoy my converted e- bicycle and when e- motorbikes become cheaper to buy I may try a small one. Until then my two up traveling on the Interstate highways requires my 125 hp gas BMW.
I don't think mass market EV street bikes make sense, at least in the US, just yet. As battery density and costs change, so too will my opinion. 1. Low weight and power density is especially important for a good moto experience. A tiny little 600cc powerplant makes 130hp and a 4 gallons of gas gets you 160+ miles of range. 2. Most bikes are crashed or otherwise taken out of service well before drivetrain reliability problems start to set in. I have seen Honda F4I engines from the early 2000s go 200,000 miles without needing any major work. At the same time, most F4Is will be sold with
Personally,obnoxious pick up trucks overshadow Harleys.The high revving Japanese bikes hurt my ears the most.Comes from working in a Stamping plant I suppose.:)
Your video reminded me of one of my favorite South Park Episodes. I couldn’t agree more with you! Every time one blows my ear drums out I think of what they call them in South Park.
Well, after watching the veteran bikers channel, this is very refreshing so much hatred so much visceral hatred towards the livewire from people who’ve never even rode it I own one, and it is a fantastic motorcycle one of the greatest forms of transportation I’ve ever owned I have on Porsches jaguars, Mercedes Benz many different types of luxury vehicles, fast cars nothing is exciting as a Riding the livewire
They want to return to the twenties when motorcycles had cut outs for riding in the countryside. In the cities you would get a ticket for excessive noise for riding with your muffler cut out in the city. Now days half of the Harley owners remove all sound dampening equipment. You can not do that with an electric. They will all die from lack of attention while riding quiet.
January 16, 2023 “At some point in time, Harley Davidson will be all-electric,” CEO Jochen Zeitz explained. “But that’s a long-term transition that needs to happen. It’s not something you do overnight.”
Whe I was in my twenties I looved the noice and smell, today, when I'm almost 70 I don't And the motorbikes had when I drove it - a really bad fuel economy, my BMW and Honda used as much fuel as a car use today - so the efficiency (not sure of the spelling 😅) Was a joke, almost nothing
Love from Milwaukee😢. I guess the Harley Davidson museum in downtown Milwaukee will take on a different meaning. Hear it. Potatoe, potatoe, potatoe. That's the aftermarket audio.
IMO, loud car and motorcycle owners LOVE to be heard, and actually get an adrenaline rush out of offending the ears of others - oppositional defiance at it roots, underlying the desire for feelings of rebellion. Again, my opinion only.
Harley dropped the livewire and got rid of it so I don't think it is serious. They have to watch out for a Bud light kind of problem if they switch. Old customers will not accept electric motorcycles. IMO
When I blow the motorized Harley of the road you’ll understand it’s not the loudness that matters, but it’s the dependability and raw torque that is achieved!
I agree, I totally can NOT stand how loud they are. However, that appeals to many of them and the style. I don’t see this as a good move. The styles they should definitely keep and maybe some audible thing that mimics the sound of a motorcycle 😊
Give the remaining petrol heads the option to add vibrations from the seats, gears to click trough, and the roaring sound beamed into their helmet. Gives them the illusion they’re still ICE while not annoying the rest of us. Sounds like a deal?
Price has never been the issue for Harley Riders - there are far better performing, much more reliable, less costly motorcycles that do not have oil incontinence in your garage. They want the Harley-Davidson mystique, and they will pay and pay to get it.
I’ve been riding motorcycles for half a decade now and on a Ducati v4 now, I changed the exhaust to make it quieter and I don’t love the heat I get on my balls!…. Tbh I don’t like the loud noice I make now so I unconsciously ride bicycle more often then ride motorcycle on weekends
As both a motorcycle and an EV enthusiast I have to say the main reason that electric bikes haven’t gained traction is two fold. Firstly, the range isn’t there yet. Bikes need to be able to go about 200km on the highway to be useable. The second reason is when you then go to charge the bike, they generally charge much slower than the cars and there is often nowhere to sit in comfort while the bike is charging.
Interesting. Do they have regenerative charging/braking?
thirdly id be afraid to kill myself on an electric bike that can accelerate me to 100kph in 1 second
Problem is that motorised bicycles are horrendously unaerodynamic. The industry has to think of making better PTWs (powered two wheelers) instead of slapping engines into heavy bicycle frames they should consider aerodynamics, weather protection, comfort and luggage capacity and they could be making better electric vehicles for our congested cities.
They have one that does 100 miles per charge. The extra 24 miles should be doable. The charging is getting better overall. It should be 15 minutes to give 90% charge.
In the United States (where I am) in most places, motorcycles are mostly for fun. If it were for commuting in traffic, an electric motorcycle with no gears would be better. But if the bike is strictly for fun, gears could not only add fun, but could increase range and performance. I'm no luddite, trust me, I'm as interested in an electric future as anybody.
I Was an electrical engineer for the company that manufactured the wiring harnesses for harley davidson's high volume manufacturing. Twenty years ago, (I was a tesla fan then) and I remember telling the other engineers that it was going to be an electric future and they all laughed me out of the office.
You were a Tesla fan five years before they sold their first car?
@@steven4315 Hm.. maybe he meant a Tesla fan as in his avatar. Although, technically Tesla the company was founded 20 years ago but they didn't have a car yet or Elon Musk.
Me notyou, the jokes on them 😁
@@steven4315 He may have read the same article I did in "Wired" magazine about what actually led to the forming of the Tesla company. I challenge anyone to find the article now. It has been buried. 'No mention of Tesla or Elon Musk in the article, but it made me an instant fan of EVs.
@@steven4315 yes
I currently own five Harleys, one of which is an original 2020 HD electric Livewire, which I have had for about two years. I very much enjoy them all, but I have to say the HD Livewire is becoming my favorite "daily around town rider." I say, “daily around town,” because you certainly are not going cross country riding on this motorcycle (mainly due to infrastructure limitations), but I am averaging about 120+ miles per charge each day on this motorcycle, so not really a problem.
The riding response is something out of a Star Wars movie and it is most convenient to simply plug it in at the end of the day and it's ready to go the next morning. You quickly become addicted to the "joy of instant torque." Yes, I still enjoy the sound of an ICE motorcycle, but after a short time the joy of the silent immediate response and “all you hear is the wind” becomes highly desirable too.
I applaud Harley Davidson for their long-term view and keeping their eyes on the future. The ICE motorcycle will be around for decades, but the electric based motorcycle is coming. I often hear some "old riders" saying “I will never ride an electric.” Well, I remember the same comments about electric starters vs. kick, belt drive vs. chain, fuel injection vs. carburation, etc. We HD riders are sometimes slow to accept change, but change is coming. Let's enjoy the ride!
Motorcyclists in general of the older age group are a very conservative bunch, who don't really want fundamental change. I'm a motorcyclist, but I'm also an environmentalist, and appreciate that change is required. I no longer ride my 2000 ICE Honda 800VFR
That's cool to hear from a non-biker and car lover.
@@ramblerandy2397 Harley will be sensible not to try to sell to an aging market - they need to attract new buyers!
Totally agree I hate the loud sometimes startling noise of Harley's exhaust and I have a bike licence
About the noise...it seems that very recently some people are actually trying to see just how much noise they can make with their vehicles of ANY type, and the diesel pickups are THE loudest. It seems like a sort of protest against EVs but EVs are the future so whatever it takes to get more and better charging stations, so be it. More EV production of ALL types will give the incentive for that.
My son designed and built an electric motor bike almost 10 years ago for his final project at RMIT Industrial design . When we were filming and testing it in the beautiful Dandenong ranges we were stopped by Harley riders . He had used Harley forks and because it had ch a in drive did tend to have a bit of a noise. They all were impressed and talked about Harly electric motor bikes in a very positive way. Roll on ekectric bikes . They were discussing giving them a distinctive sound not unlike the sounds the ev's migjt be given at low speeds.
Seems a bit premature. Have you seen the range on their electric bike? It sucks. I sure as hell wouldn't buy one.
Yup, the range is truly pathetic, on the highway it it drops like a stone.
My old geezer neighbor and his geezer buddies are all Harley riders, and naturally they think all that noise makes them look really cool. I think they are a bunch of rude jackasses. This may break their hearts.
As a HD Livewire owner, I can say it is an amazing driving and riding experience. In cities ans small roads, nothing is as much fun!
Horrible motorcycle
I ride a Zero S. If Harley can integrate a level 3 charger into their bikes where the charge time from 0 to 100 is under 20 mins, this might work. The prob right now is there is no good fast charging network like Tesla's supercharging stations which is no good for motorcyclists as we like to go touring and such. But yea, Harley's are dead in the water, nobody wants them going forward. They have to change their business model. EV motorcycle is the way to go.
Harleys - as they come from the factory - are not obnoxiously loud.
It's the friggin' owners who make it their 1st priotity to put on after-mraket mufflers and then take out baffles
who generate all the loud noise for the attention and a feeling of significance. As Harley transitions to e-bikes,
there will be great Push-Back and abandonment by the Old Guard who want to retain their "Rolling Thunder".
THANK GOD. I hear absurdly loud motorcycles daily. I already have some hearing loss, I don't need more, and I'll guarantee at the point you lose much, you'll wish to heaven you are fully hearing.
What!?
@@mrh3085 LOL
Hate loud bikes.
I love this. Hopefully it drives the rest of the industry 👏👏
I saw what you did there. LOL.
As a former Harley owner I want to remind Sam that they start out well mufflered, not quiet like a Bmw, but reasonably quiet, then many, usually young owners modify the exhaust. I personally want an electric trail motorcycle, light, nimble and quiet!
Check out the new Surron Ultra Bee! I have been riding the small Surron light bee on trails and have had a ton of fun. The new ultra bee is basically everything I wish the light bee was. I’m a lifelong motocross rider and have owned 10 Harley’s. I currently still have 2 Harley’s. That being said, the electric bikes are SO much fun. Do some research on those. 🤙🏼
I'm not a motorcycle guy, but I had a friend who loved his custom "Soft Tail". He rode it to work (in Silicon Valley) every day, and was very active on Usenet (yes, I'm that old). He has since died, but I can say that he would have appreciated your right to make this video, and then he would have given you the middle finger.
I accidentally attended the Sturgis Rally on a trip across the U.S. with my son, and the people were friendly and welcoming.
Don't say that. I still use Usenet, although probably not as originally intended.
I’d give Mr Sam th middle finger too
Most don’t realize the biker community is one of the most philanthropic groups of people you will ever meet. Sorry you lost your friend. 🙏🇺🇸♥️✌️
@@mrh3085 Yes and No. Smaller groups and the general riding community perhaps but I live in an area where the Hells Angeles run a toys for tots charity but at the same time run one of the most prolific meth trades in area with dozens of murders linked to them over the last 30 years in this area alone. Racketeering and all sorts of gang like activities, not to mention violent clashes with other biker clubs/gangs are also prevalent. That's just one group, there's actually 10 other groups/gangs that the FBI considers more dangerous than the Hells Angels.
I'm not a biker but I can appreciate the love for harleys.theyr loud,proud and look great,the japanese sad copies are just that,sad..EV car fans like me know what harleys are about and can't imagine a quite civilised BIKER'S bike going round silently,whats the point?? Imagine a BIKER'S meet without a single harley exhaust note...
I think an obstacle to big electric motorcycles up to date has been battery density. That’s why most electric bikes and scooters are commuters. BUT now with the new 500w/kg density batteries . . . . !!!!
Calling the average Harley rider "middle aged" is being polite. Most of these guys remember the Kennedy years.
One huge problem with electric bikes. Range in the middle of nowhere. Some of us riders ride to get far into nature for days or weeks at a time. We can take external tanks. Not possible with electric for a generation or so. Check Ewan McGregor on his Long Way Up ride through South America on an electric Harley. Major headache is an understatement.
This really must convince all petrol heads of where we are headed. If Harley are going EV so is everyone else.
Sadly yes, and im an EV owner! Even i dont agree with getting rid of the ICE so quickly, there is a def underworld agenda going on here my friends....
@@simonscofield8825 I agree what's the hurry ?
EVs are reducing pollution every day and selling in the millions,we can still have cool stuff like harleys and save the planet..
If you hate how loud Harley’s are, try living next to Sturgis during Rally week. Two weeks of non stop bikes 24hrs a day. 500k bikers in a normal population area of about 200k people. It’s insane. But that won’t change if Harley switches to all electric. Bikers will just switch to Indian or some other brand.
I live on an otherwise quiet mountain road. The a group of overweight, middle aged men who love to regularly roar up and down the road. If they want to ride their silent electric Harleys, that would be fine.
The problem is that until a significant number of the obnoxious noise polluters end up in the tip, they will remain a problem.
If one wants to announce their arrival they should point the exhaust pipes forward
Without Harley Davidson iconic sound, I don't believe it can sell
Utterly ridiculous….. Im exactly the kind of guy that will buy one.
Plaid pipes any sound you want inside and out better than the mechanical sounds. Close your eyes and you'll always pick the digital exhaust over ice/mufflers.
@@maxflight777 congratulations 👏 ,
@@larryc1616 as long petrol price in Malaysia below usd 0.50 cens per liter, is ok to me having ICE bikers 🏍️
I love your Tesla comments, But, you don't get the motorcycle world or the alure. It's about the cruise and the American sounds. Respectfully, there is no war HD is going all electric any time soon. Thanks for your EV content.
I rode a Harley for years and I can say unequivocally that "loud pipes save lives" is very true. It lets others Motorist know you are there and maybe not to lane change without checkin their mirrors and smearing you across the highway. I can also say that some guys are just assholes and love the attention and irritating others. There's no accounting for taste or motivation.
That piece of motorcycle mythology has never been anything more than a threadbare justification for obnoxious people being obnoxious, without a shred of any study ever backing it up.
I've ridden for about half a century, and worked at a shop that sold European bikes for about five years. The Beemer and Guzzi riders racked up ridiculous miles, quietly, with no real accidents - the only customer we lost during the time I worked there was a guy who had a Ducati Mike Hailwood replica - which had race pipes that would rattle the shop windows when we started it up. We had one smashed-up Bonneville parts bike from before I started working there - the owner had bought it from the widow when the insurance company tried to screw her - that was a case of too much alcohol, too much speed and one too many bridge abutments. The Triumph had stock mufflers - no doubt straight pipes would have saved him.
This is great news Sam! Harley’s are noisy industrial nightmares. Have always wondered how they pass registration, when no car would be allowed to make that much noise. Looking forward to quieter, cleaner, safer transport!
Viking I’m stoked too, this is industry leadership on show, Harley is one of the great survivors of the motorcycle world. Their existing power plant platforms will not be able to pass new emissions and efficiency standards without major redesign. So rather than spend a heap of coin and waste time turd polishing, they have realised its time to get with the program. Live wire is an awesome machine but I’m an Italian motorcycle fan, so I’m also excited to see Ducati deeply involved in electric motorcycles as well. Both companies are great survivors true Marques, who have reinvented themselves several times good luck to them both. Once range and charging speed sorted I’m in 🏍️
You're going to see people saying that those who ride electric bikes drink Bud Light.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, just watch amurican politics for 10 minutes.
This is nice. I hope they will make motorcycles with CCS and supercharger.
*Loud pipes save lives.* This is because pre-occupied, incompetent drivers don't pay attention to the road any longer.
Im a huge motorcycle fan. Ive had so much enjoyment from them all my life.
However I totally agree Sam. The noise is unnecessary and unwelcome.
I own a Tesla and Id love to own an electric motorcycle
tesla's are overpriced garbage and you obvs never ridden shit if u think a quiet bike in the middle of traffic is a good idea
I'm looking forward to seeing a bigger electric bike from HD !
If you live in the countryside of any country you can forget about an electric bike, 100 mile tops if you ride like a saint, this could be Harley’s Bud Light moment.
Rapid chargers can get you an 80% charge in 20 minutes. The future is BRIGHTER!
100% agreed. Harleys are iconic for a reason and it’s not because of their tech. If they’re dumb enough to go full electric they deserve to go bankrupt.
@@beautifulgirl219 LiveWire One on a Level 3 charger: 0-80% in 40 minutes and 0-100% in an hour.
Great news! I am a motorcyclist but have never owned a Harley, precisely because they are heavy, loud and obnoxious. (Like many of their owners?) Harley recognise the changing market, and will probably survive.
Typical beta male post. 😂
I don't understand what they benefit by saying that. H. D. Culture is famous for its loyal religion like following here in the US. Why would you alienate your customer base telling them they are soon a thing of the past? Okay I understand the livewire brand and hope it does very well. Most Harley guys don't even want to look at it.
They're basically a clothing brand at this point, but EV motorcycles don't sell the image they try to portrait, so this is gonna be something interesting to see when they crash and burn
Many Amer. have a curious mindset that they have the God & constitutional given right to blast eardrum shattering ruckus while next to you at a stoplight or wake you at 1AM to announce their presence. It is confused with freedom.
I met a guy that works for Harley Davidson at their Yucca Arizona test track. He told me that the electric Harleys are too heavy and they don't have enough range. He wasn't a fan, but the technology keeps evolving so I'm sure they can improve the experience.
Yup excellent news. Thanks for the video. Good work. I am a motorcycle "guy" and I can't stand Harley and Indian bikes. I have a dealer right down the street from me. They have a damned meeting every two weeks in summer. Use your imagination to contemplate how lame that is... I'll wait. Their sales were so terrible they had to shut the showroom down for months. Take the hint Motorcycle makers.
Greetings from Phuket
Couldn't agree more about these bold headed or gray-haired old boys living in the past with their noisy Harleys.
I got 4 MC's, but all with original low noise exhaust pipes.
Electric I'm looking forward to, but not right now as the range is too low.
Totally with you here Viking!
I had a Honda Goldwing because it was so quiet you often didn't hear them pass.
Yeah yeah the Harley folks would say the noise announces their presence and that is safer.
Actually the noise made me want to run them over.
So not sure about that "safety" thing when you are engendering that kind of feeling in everyone.
Good thing they were faster.
Maybe they will put wooden slats in their wheel spokes to make annoying noise like kids did many years ago???
However I think this is going to be a fast transfer when the price of gas goes through the roof as gas/diesel refineries start shutting down due to lack of demand. Harley will have to go full electric really quick then.
Yes, the price of gasoline/petrol will have a lot to do with adoption of EVs.
You are comparing a want (Motorcycle) to a need (Automobile) There’s a greater chance owning a car will become less relevant before owning a motorcycle does.
@@mrh3085 Not sure who you were responding to? Did you mean to respond directly to Sam or to my comment?
My original comment above doesn't talk of needs or cars?
@@nickmcconnell1291 pointing out the lack of logic in this entire thread. You wanting to “run them over” is not only childish it would be considered assault with a deadly weapon. Be careful what you wish for because most Harley riders and their friends will respond in kind.
@@mrh3085 Hmmmm not sure how what I said was "illogical" as it has to do with feelings which are not logical things to begin with?
Anyway, I have no ill will against any motorcycle rider, being one myself, and would never act on that impulse. However I do abhor those bikes that are intentionally modified to sound as loud as possible.
I consider having my ear drums ruined as an assault..... not to mention the wildlife around the area that probably died of fright.
However all is a mute point here since eventually Harleys and Goldwings, etc. will all soon go electric and the older ones won't be able to find or afford gas as refinery after refinery closes. I'm sure everyone will say to themselves "Oh it will be decades before that happens"...... however I am convinced that it will happen within one decade because of soon to be gas scarcity and new laws going into place. Refining gas becomes uneconomical very quickly when demand drops only around 20%. Refinery margins are minuscule.
We will be at that 20% around the end of 2025. Refineries will start closing one by one.
Now I have to figure out how to convert my gas lawn tractor to electric! I am waiting to see if Husqvarna or 3rd party brings out a kit to do that. Hope so.
We all will breath a little easier and enjoy the rides in nature a little more knowing we aren't disturbing it by being there. And won't it be great when you can hear the conversations of other riders around you while cruising?
Ha ha, maybe the Electraglide can actually have a reason for its name!
EH from 🇨🇦. Unfortunately the Livewire is 2x the price, and half the range of a gas Harley. The Livewire also needs level 2 charging for home charging.
Love the sound of Harley's. New Harleys are never loud. Only when people put different exhaust on it. But that goes for cars to.
Never heard it at night, . . .what we do hear . . . . . . DOGS, I hate the sound of dogs, endlessly barking in the evening and night.
Also every morning waking up because several neighbours have dogs that need to go out and start barking again. Idiots.
I also love the electric Harley and did a testride on the Livewire and several other electric bikes.
Livewire was a fun ride, but with a max range of 150km and at €34.000 it was way to expansive. When cheaper, and more range, it could be a good bike.
I’m all for freedom of choice and don’t need the government to tell me how to live my life. I say let the market decide. Personally I’ll stick with my built V-Twin with aftermarket 2 into 1 exhaust.
@@mrh3085 As long as so many people are allowed to have barking dogs that keep me out of my sleep every single day, i will also keep my 2 in 1 exhaust on my 2002 FXDL.
@@BMWHP2 Like music, one persons noise is another’s symphony. 🇺🇸😎
@@mrh3085 Yep, thou i cant believe that constant barking dogs are a symphony to anyones ears.🤮
So you're saying... We need electric dogs?
Harley is doomed and there’s nothing they can do about it. Their core customer won’t be around that long or too old to ride anymore. The EV Livewire is a failure due to high price. Harley doesnt have the cost structure to produce low cost EV bikes in these bad economic times. Foreign companies will lead the way.
I'm waiting for the first E-HOG. Nobody has done it yet - and HD is the natural home for E-HOGS.
@@mikadavies660 An e-hog?? more like e-hideous - this will never sell like a proper hog would - e or otherotherwise...
@@mikadavies660 There are two kinds of motorcycles. 1) Foot rests are under the rider, and you lean into the wind (sport bike.) 2) The foot rests are under the handlebars, and you lean back in your rolling easy chair (HOG). No one has made #2 yet with an electric bike. No one.
@@mikadavies660 I wouldn't worry about the name- it's about the riding experience. I want the traditional Harley easy-chair bike without the noise. No one is making those yet. I can't wait to see one as a chopper.
I hope they make a version with noise simulator-generator just to annoy Electric Viking ;-)
I want a Harley noise simulator-generator for the "born free" electric wheel chairs.riders.
I like the styling of Harley and the deep tone not the volume. I am looking forward to a cruiser version. I don’t like the high lay down version.
I feel your pain mate. I lived in Tokyo for about 2 years, and a bloke delivered newspapers every friggen morning on a scooter at 3AM. He rev'd the absolute crap out of that 125cc engine ha ha. Kinda wish Honda and Co. would make a little runaround with comparable speed and performance of a 125 ie: Honda Cub. They teased this years ago, but still no sign. Maybe one day
Honda Super Cub - it's been in production for a while...
@@47f0 yep, I own a petrol super cub :-). I want an electric version
@@stuz32 -; they do have an E-Cub, but in terms of performance it's probably closer to the original 50cc Cub. Probably the closest right now is the Honda PCX electric - 4.2. Kw and a top speed of 37 mph. Honda is promising three classes of vehicles, EB, EM, and EV. The EB is the electric bike category, the PCX is almost certainly in the EM class and we should see at least three bikes coming out in the EV class this year that have a bit more power.
@@47f0 If they make it, I'll buy it...not holding my breath though :-)
I go back to ARPANET and USENET (alt.goodmorning, anyone?) My first bike was a 1942 Indian, and I have over 400,000 miles on 2 wheels. My next vehicle will be an Aptera.
agree hate loud motorcycles as well. I currently have ev motorbike for comuting and it is great. But the range is limited, that has to be sad. But with the 500Wh/kg battery ev motorcycles going to be awesome. I can even see two speed gearboxes on them.
You may have overplayed the intro... and Harleys sound amazing (but not at 2am). That's part of the struggle: EV's are badass, but they don't sound like what we're accustomed to badass sounding like.
Can't say I would liken this choice to the Bud light debacle? But Harley fans will be disappointed. However this will make all of the gas powered bikes more desirable to that crowd and valuable In the future. Nostalgia is a powerful thing especially for Americans
Not just 3 am , it’s 24 hours annoying. It’s especially for some riders don’t control their throttle well
My father in law is going to be PISSED off!!! He is a Massive Harley fan, has always given me so much crap for owning an EV, ahhhh the writing is on the wall now my friend
I congratulate Harley for this!
I can see HD coming up with an electric cruiser bike either in 2 wheeled form, about the size of their V-Rods, or a cruising trike the size of their current gas-powered trikes. The 2 wheeled version alone would have at least 25% more range (cruiser frames can mount a bigger battery pack), but H-D would probably equip it, due to demand from their die-hard customers, a recorded version of their distinctive "potato-potato" sound.
Bravo for H-D. I studied Harley-Davidson case studies in business graduate school back in 1994. Harley-Davidson is a very adaptive company. It gives them longevity. Thanks as always for your well-researched content that is not found on any other EV/E channels.
Harley may be adaptive, but Harley riders are not, otherwise the V-Rod would have been the power plant in all Harleys within a couple of years. Buell had some minor success making Harley's actually usable, but hardly bought Buell and Harley riders killed it.
The noisy screaming eagle exhaust system on a Harley are not stock. People deliberately add these exhaust to make more noise.
Battery tech is WAAAAY OFF for motorcycles. Urban commuters maybe but for ADV and tourers NOPE not enough range vs weight etc, making advances though. Harley is more than Braaap BRAAAP also. History, nostalgia etc but yes there’s a certain amount of testosterone involved. Keep up all the great videos :)
I call them "Noisy Davidsons". They sound like a belching old tractor at idle but do sound more like a V8 at higher rpms but they are always too loud. I have owned four of them and three Victorys and ran stock mufflers. I don't ride to attract attention and have people look at me. I ride to enjoy the ride. Can't say I am ready for an EB to do the traveling I do but I enjoy my converted e- bicycle and when e- motorbikes become cheaper to buy I may try a small one. Until then my two up traveling on the Interstate highways requires my 125 hp gas BMW.
Harleys make good boat anchors.
That's been tried, regrettably it was overkill, and sank the boats.
I don't think mass market EV street bikes make sense, at least in the US, just yet. As battery density and costs change, so too will my opinion.
1. Low weight and power density is especially important for a good moto experience. A tiny little 600cc powerplant makes 130hp and a 4 gallons of gas gets you 160+ miles of range.
2. Most bikes are crashed or otherwise taken out of service well before drivetrain reliability problems start to set in. I have seen Honda F4I engines from the early 2000s go 200,000 miles without needing any major work. At the same time, most F4Is will be sold with
Personally,obnoxious pick up trucks overshadow Harleys.The high revving Japanese bikes hurt my ears the most.Comes from working in a Stamping plant I suppose.:)
Your video reminded me of one of my favorite South Park Episodes. I couldn’t agree more with you! Every time one blows my ear drums out I think of what they call them in South Park.
Probably then with sound computer and loudspeaker boxes. 🙃😉
Still waiting on a western EUC manufacturer. It would be cool if they saw the potential of alternative PEV's.
looking fwd to the self driving hogs
Fantastic news! Why should peace be disturbed just so some big babies can be comforted by a soothing rumble
Well I wont be buying one. Then again I had no intention of ever getting a Harley-Davidson...
Good one... asking Toyota to make a manual version :)
Well, after watching the veteran bikers channel, this is very refreshing so much hatred so much visceral hatred towards the livewire from people who’ve never even rode it I own one, and it is a fantastic motorcycle one of the greatest forms of transportation I’ve ever owned I have on Porsches jaguars, Mercedes Benz many different types of luxury vehicles, fast cars nothing is exciting as a Riding the livewire
They want to return to the twenties when motorcycles had cut outs for riding in the countryside. In the cities you would get a ticket for excessive noise for riding with your muffler cut out in the city. Now days half of the Harley owners remove all sound dampening equipment. You can not do that with an electric. They will all die from lack of attention while riding quiet.
Bikes and Beards did one of them 3 years ago
I agree
January 16, 2023 “At some point in time, Harley Davidson will be all-electric,” CEO Jochen Zeitz explained. “But that’s a long-term transition that needs to happen. It’s not something you do overnight.”
Whe I was in my twenties I looved the noice and smell, today, when I'm almost 70 I don't
And the motorbikes had when I drove it - a really bad fuel economy, my BMW and Honda used as much fuel as a car use
today - so the efficiency (not sure of the spelling 😅)
Was a joke, almost nothing
Love from Milwaukee😢. I guess the Harley Davidson museum in downtown Milwaukee will take on a different meaning. Hear it. Potatoe, potatoe, potatoe. That's the aftermarket audio.
IMO, loud car and motorcycle owners LOVE to be heard, and actually get an adrenaline rush out of offending the ears of others - oppositional defiance at it roots, underlying the desire for feelings of rebellion. Again, my opinion only.
Harley dropped the livewire and got rid of it so I don't think it is serious. They have to watch out for a Bud light kind of problem if they switch. Old customers will not accept electric motorcycles. IMO
Harley certainly did NOT drop the "livewire". It is now one of their sub-brands.
Zero bikes is ready for the competition. Let the games begin.
Oh yeah, this is going to cause so much drama. They’re going to start blowing up and shooting out Harley Davison’s now call Kim Cox video on fire.
This will ruin the company..
No changing oils anymore.
South Park did an amazing episode on Harley riders.
When I blow the motorized Harley of the road you’ll understand it’s not the loudness that matters, but it’s the dependability and raw torque that is achieved!
I agree, I totally can NOT stand how loud they are. However, that appeals to many of them and the style. I don’t see this as a good move.
The styles they should definitely keep and maybe some audible thing that mimics the sound of a motorcycle 😊
They don't have a choice, cannot pass emissions in California pretty soon. I love my LiveWire.
California is America's trashbin.
Give the remaining petrol heads the option to add vibrations from the seats, gears to click trough, and the roaring sound beamed into their helmet. Gives them the illusion they’re still ICE while not annoying the rest of us. Sounds like a deal?
Sorry guy. But that won't work for Harley riders unless you can figure out a way for it to create massive puddles of oil under the bike.
it hate the noise of motorcycles
The ZERO is a nice electric bike from U.S.A......There is one not far from me.
I didn't cry myself to sleep on this news....😁😁😁😁
If the bike is good then it's good. EV or not.
What I worry is the price however.
Price has never been the issue for Harley Riders - there are far better performing, much more reliable, less costly motorcycles that do not have oil incontinence in your garage. They want the Harley-Davidson mystique, and they will pay and pay to get it.
Great news
There was audible thud at 2:28 in this video. Did you fall down?
South Park had a great episode on Harley riders.
Jules Verne would love this.
I am truly surprised.
Love, best to your wife
Viking, Harley are huge in Thailand!
I’ve been riding motorcycles for half a decade now and on a Ducati v4 now, I changed the exhaust to make it quieter and I don’t love the heat I get on my balls!…. Tbh I don’t like the loud noice I make now so I unconsciously ride bicycle more often then ride motorcycle on weekends
Just so you know, stock Harley's are not loud.