According to Merriam-Webster “Jackpot” in the western US can mean in a tight spot. Which of course fits here our ass is in a tight spot. You either eject the pitcher and piss his team and the fans off. Or you piss of dodgers fans keeping the pitcher in for a free shot at the batter. Which of course for the Mets does it really feel the same level of revenge if the batter 100% knows he’s gonna be hit? They ump seems to agree Chase should be hit because the league didn’t punish him. They know what they want but they know it’s not gonna fly on the back end because even without audio everyone would know the umps essentially are telling Chase to get fucked you’ll be taking a pitch.
Jackpot is not that rare but it is kind of old school. In No Country For Old Men when Llewellyn is approaching the hotel in the cab the drivers says " I don't want to get in some kind of jackpot here..."and Llewellyn saws "Look, You're already in a jackpot..."Thats just one off the top of my head but in older movies/novels its used quite a bit.
When the audio for this ejection first came out, I listened to it several times, because I wanted to hear what an ejection conversation sounded like. And I wasn't disappointed at all.
@@socialumpire Hallion says a couple of very interesting things. First to Syndergaard: "That's the wrong time to do it, that's all." So Hallion gets that Utley should be getting plunked, just not right then, because MLB knew things could get out of hand and ordered the crew to stop it before it starts. Then he says to Collins, "You know where I stand on the whole...situation." So obviously these guys have talked about it, and Hallion clearly sympathized with Collins. I don't know if that meant he agreed with the call to plunk Utley, but based on what he said to Syndergaard I don't think he would have shed any tears over it.
@@XXelpollodiabloXX well you got to know these people personally or have some sort of understanding of who they are and what they represent. I’m not saying I know them, but I do know some of these guys like him, Cuzzi, Ted, and others are very old school. Meaning they didn’t have any issues with the slide or the get back.
@@socialumpire I'm pretty old school. I hate the "bona fide slide" rule. I think going hard into a fielder to break up a double play is (or should be) part of that game. _But_ even that has limits. If Utley slides 5 - 6 feet before the bag and goes into him that hard, I've got no problem with it. That's the game. It's that he is even with the bag when he starts his slide, when it was totally unnecessary. I guess for me there is a difference between playing hard and playing dirty, and I thought it was dirty. I got the sense that Hallion thought the same thing. I just always found the "that just wasn't the right time for that" comment to be very telling.
You're wrong about West - like him or not. However the horrendous umpiring crews of 2023 would have ejected 37 players and made a mockery out of the situation.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that MLB wanted this scrubbed from online existence because of Hallion dancing around one of baseball’s unwritten rules. Instead, he should’ve been applauded for his near perfect diffusion of Collins’ meltdown, letting him get it off his chest, and possibly keeping the situation from getting out of hand. Baseball is full of unwritten rules, and it’s actually one of the things people love about the sport. Everyone enjoys a little controversy, and the drama that comes with it. Think about all the people fans who turned-in specifically to see what was going to happen when Utley stepped in the batter’s box. Considering how all parties involved “knew what the situation was,” the crew chief should’ve issued warnings before the game. That’s what MLB should’ve been focusing on, not what Hallion said to diffuse the situation.
Joe West is a good umpire I think. He handles Lou Pinella just fine lol. And that guys got a fuse that's shorter then a blade of grass.. Being a Mariners fan I love Lou Pinella. But the umpire who really would have handled this situation really really bad and possibly got someone really hurt is Angel Hernandez
What I find really interesting is how Terry Collins reacts to the ump saying "our ass is in the Jackpot now" like he knows exactly what he is talking about.
Yeah to me it seemed like an obvious way of saying "I have liability now if I don't make this call." He was saying everyone knew the situation- that orders came down (presumably from the MLB) that there should be no reprisals against Utley- and now that a blatant attempt had been made, it was all on him if he didn't make the call to toss him out.
@@chucksneed5405 Utley wouldn't have had that kind of protection from the officials if it wasn't a Met he kneecapped. Sad to know I was right about all of this.....
As a met fan , the tejada injury was devastating. It felt like he was done wrong, Not an unfortunate bi product of competition. We felt intent on the part of Utley. I respect Collins even more then I already did..his passion was real.
He had passion, I'll agree with that; and as a Dodger fan, I agree that the Utley slide was not good. In this case though, his passion was in the wrong place. Syndergaard's pitch was clearly intentional (and everyone in that park knew that from their reaction), and as such, he deserved to be thrown out of the game. What I love about this ejection is that the umpire was not only absolutely right in ejecting both people, what he said to Collins was right on the money.
Utley was trying to tie a game in a series they were already down 1-0 and the only way to do that was take tejada out. I can’t blame him for it, but they should’ve gotten a shot on utley before an ejection
@@waltercampbell9787 I still don't think he was trying to "take tejada out". I think he was trying to prevent the double play like we were all taught to do (Unless that's what you mean by taking him out). Was it over the line? Of course, but if you look at the play in slow motion, Tejada tries to do this twirl instead of coming across the bag (which is what normally happens). Utley tried to adjust his slide to put himself into a new position to break it up, but ends up going face first into Tejada's leg. Yeah, Utley used his face to break it up. If there was intent, I would think he would choose something other than his face.
whether you think Utley’s shitty slide was intentional or not, him not being punished for it whatsoever totally warranted the rage of the Mets and their fans.
As a Mets fan this gave me a whole new level of love and appreciation for Terry. For a manager to still care so much a year later shows the bonds he made with the team. Between that and his feelings on letting Santana finish the no no.
As a Dodger fan, I agree that Utley's slide was a bad one. In this case though, Collins passion was in the wrong place. Syndergaard's pitch was clearly intentional (and everyone in that park knew that from their reaction), and as such, he deserved to be thrown out of the game. What I love about this ejection is that the umpire was not only absolutely right in ejecting both people, what he said to Collins was right on the money.
@@Joe_Okey Utley ended a guy's career. An intentional throw behind the back did nothing but send a message. Even if Syndergaard hit him in the side, it wouldn't end his career. Your logic makes no sense. Also, fuck the Dodgers. And fuck Chase Utley. Seriously.
@@Joe_Okey Besides the fact that the "you know the situation" excuse has no merit. There should have been a pregame warning based on MLB rules and "unspoken rules", especially if the umpire is aware theres a situation. That's all more reason to issue warnings instead of waiting for something to come to ahead. Collins was more in the right in saying the MLB did nothing to Utley.
@@super8bitvideos The reason they did nothing to Utley, is that the slide was NOT illegal at that time, it was Utley's slide that resulted in the rule change AFTER the fact.
@@alvinpietzsch1534 Remember that A. The slide was NOT illegal at that time, it was Utley's slide that resulted in the rule change AFTER the fact. and B. There was NO denying that the pitch was intentional and why, which is why he was ejected from the ballgame. Also, there is no way that Utley was intending to injure Tejada, he was ONLY trying to break up the double play, the injury was an unfortunate happenstance.
The ump saying “Our ass is in the jackpot” in this case means that he feels he and the rest of the umpiring crew would be in serious trouble if they didn’t react to the Mets’ retaliation against Utley. Also, you can find another similar reference to being “in a jackpot” in the movie “No Country for Old Men”. :)
You got me laughing here! I know it wasn't intentional - but sometimes the phrases and colloquialisms we use, when thought through, are funny. First, I regret that Tejada was injured and his career derailed. Second, Baseball has a long history of allowing take-out slides; yet, I thought the Game had instituted stiffer punishments for obvious divergent slides. We've got stuff on camera and it doesn't take a day to analyze a play. So everyone in Baseball knew what was brewing and the umpires had to maintain order. I was thinking: a jackpot is supposed to be a boon for whoever hits it - a good thing, a prize. So, if your ass is in the jackpot, how can that be a good thing for you? And who hits that figurative jackpot and wins the prize? The public? Anyway, thanks for your comment and giving me occasion to respond.
God. Game 3 of that NLDS was ELECTRIC. Sold out for the first ever playoff game at Citi Field, and every fan, myself included, was so hyped, but absolutely ENRAGED at Utley for what he did. The thundering boos for him, the huge cheers for Tejada when he appeared on the field in crutches, and the subsequent blowout that followed made all of us feel great.
Hallion is a great umpire. He did very well being calm and decisive with Thor, then he takes Terry aside so he doesn’t get in more trouble by being overheard by other umpires. Give that man a medal.
Collins endeared himself to Mets fans forever after this clip came out. That said, Hallion did a great job of handling and diffusing the situation. You got reality out of both men, and he also handled the infielders calmly and rationally before taking on Collins. I know the crew chief's are trained to attempt to redirect the manager to them as opposed to another member of the team. Just smooth all around and yeah, quite entertaining. LFGM!
I figured that "ass in the jackpot" meant that the umpire crew was now responsible to handle the retaliation to Utley before it turns into a shit show of a game.
Yeah, that's exactly how I'm reading it. Similar to something like 'we are in the spotlight now' - everyone was watching, waiting for Utley to get pegged. Now, the real question is how far the umps let it go. One was inevitable, but and can't be controlled. But you CAN stop this from cascading into total madness.
36 year Umpire here: We umps love this video for the beautiful way that it shows how umps work together to defuse a situation. Hallion did everything a crew chief should do, he took the heat off the home plate ump and put it on himself. The key to this is to have let Collins work his anger out on him. If you noticed, Hallion really didn't argue with Collins as much as listen to him. Excellent all around umpiring here.
So I guess the umpiring attitudes changed in 2015 when this video was taken and when you started umpiring. Umpires want to be the center of attention at games now. The quick ejection was unwarranted considering what Utley did to Tejada. Utley was not even disciplined for his slide which was nowhere close to 2nd base. Utley's sole action was to take out Tejada so he couldn't complete the double play. What if this happened today. The lack of knowledge and compassion umpires have for this great game is gone and they would have made a mockery out of this!!
The umps actually escalated the situation by ejecting Noah without warning the benches. Umpires screw up ALL THE TIME. I remember a game KC vs Toronto. The KC pitcher beaned a Blue Jay. The ump warned BOTH benches (which is stupid because Toronto did nothing at that point). The KC pitchers then start throwing at Toronto players and nothing happens. Then they HIT a Blue Jay and the umps just give him first base...NO EJECTION. The Blue Jay manager comes out to ask why, guess what, HE gets ejected!!! Damn umps are crooked or just stupid. I don't know which is worse!! So they eject Noah for something that happened a year before? How stupid are umpires anyways? Don't even get me started on their horrible strike zones
Due to the iconic catch phrase i think people failed to see what the best part of all of this was. It was the showcasing of the companionship and brotherhood that is created when you are on a sports team that transcends the actual sport. It doesnt matter if youre in little league or the major leagues those players and coaches become your family. It was so awesome to see a coach have that much passion and trying to get revenge for his player's injury. Thats the type of coach you want to play for. Im a lifelong Mets fan and when i had seen this Collins had instantly became one of my fav all time coaches not because of his skill i think could name a bunch better imo but because of the love he showed Tejada.
Definitely! He handled this situation incredibly well by distancing Terry from the other umps and speaking to him as an equal. He seemed to be very understanding of Syndergaard, but knew he had to eject him due to the rules
The dialogue and delivery between Hallion and Collins is so good it almost feels scripted. I feel like Hallion saw that 2000 made-for-TV movie, liked it, and stored it in the memory bank for the right moment.
Wow this is a really good video. The only instance I can remember of someone using that term "jackpot" outside of a gambling context was in the movie No Country For Old Men when the cab driver says it to the main protagonist when he is concerned about being put in a precarious situation. Makes sense in both scenario to me now.
Essentially saying that “my ass is in the jackpot” essentially just means I am stuck with a bad hand, but my future is on the line, essentially another way to say they are stuck in a bad situation.
I'm neither a Mets or Dodger fan but I remember this vividly. I was disappointed on so many levels. First, that it actually happened and Utley only got a two game suspension. Secondly, that he was allowed to play while the suspension was being appealed and lastly, that Joe Torre overturned the entire thing. All the while, Tejada was actually injured and was never the same after that. Terry Collins, the Mets and Dodgers and the umpires all knew what was happening and unfortunately, these things happen all too often. MLB needs stricter rules and punishments to keep this kind of stuff from happening.
the whole incident shows the bias of the MLB; UTley should have been fined a half years salary and suspended a half years worth of games and Dodgers fined an amount equal to Tejada's yearly salary and Torre told to keep his mouth shut
It was an unfortunate accident. Utley does what needs to be done to make the play time and time again. Can’t fault him for that. At the time he broke no rules. I mean, we could just make it a game where everyone wins and we don’t keep score, but what fun would that be?
He didn't break any rules though. It's not his fault that tejada can't take a hit. Takeout slides and home plate contact should have stayed legal. If they get hurt, maybe they won't block the plate or get in the runners way.
@@aggravatedstrawberrythe reason he “couldn’t take the hit” is that his knee got hit by utley’s helmet. The helmet was the thing that did the damage I’m sure of it. Plus baseball isn’t a contact sport. There should NOT be that level of contact that was in the 70s and 80s as it’s a skill game, not a contact one.
I'm feeling old now. No one remembers the Earl Weaver video where he got tossed like 2 batters into a game for arguing a balk? Ends up being him and the ump just talking shit to each other. It's almost poetry.
lol you to? or the many many many many times Lou Piniella ripped into, and cursed out umpire along with messing up their shoes and heaving a base bag into the stands. One of the times he did that, IIRC they didn't have a spare bag so the ground crew came and marked where the base is instead. lol like ok guys just roll with it pls.
me too actually lol. lifelong dodger fan but i really felt for the mets, esp bc thor didnt get a warning. i think if he had actually beaned utley and then that had been the end of it, it woulda been vaguely more fair.
lol haven't been around long has you? back in the day pitchers would ding batters, batters would charge the mound and pound the daylights out of a pitcher. then a hockey game breaks out. Right along with about a bajillion fines and a half million ejections while umps go: "oh hell no...well where do we even start with notes? lets see: both teems fined, number 7,22,55,67,69,99,50,51,52...ejected.oh right head coaches ejected..."
That Homicide clip was from the TV movie when Bayliss and Pembleton were talking about the internet killer Luke Ryland (S7 Ep 13). 16 years later, Hallion used the jackpot phrase. In Tom’s context, if the crew did nothing, they were going to be fined or suspended for not enforcing the rule book. Adam Hamari (pronounced as HAM-er-e) was a AAA call up at that time, he could have been fired if he didn’t eject (or warn at the least). I think when this leaked, MLB had to change the way this was handled…which they did in 2020. Now the crew will discuss and warn or eject as they see fit.
This is a really great video. Good job and thank you for putting this together. I loved this original video MLB should put these out there on their own bc seeing this stuff is great for the fans.
A little brief windows into the reality of baseball is super fun. They knew what was happening, they understood why, they had to enforce the rules. Only thing that can be said if you're going to hit a guy, you should probably actually hit them.
That is part of what should be the point here. HE DIDN'T HIT UTLEY. That could been the end of it, if the umps just issued warnings then. But, no ... they decide to punish the Met for NOT HITTING the guy who went unpunished for breaking a Met leg. I can't believe that people don't see how f*cked up this is. The umps and MLB were completely wrong here.
LOl that was the best part! lol not that he almost hit the guy, but should at least pretend and do it on the second pitch, and make sure to hit his dick oh and... lol wtf.
Braves fan here, and as many will know from that statement alone I absolutely hate the Mets. I started watching last year and never knew this had happened and I never thought I would see the day where I am on the Mets side of the argument but here we are. That type of play doesn’t belong in baseball and utley should have been punished by mlb.
Something that I always thought was interesting about the video, and I hope this doesn't sound too conspiratorial lol, is that once Terry officially name drops MLB (re: "MLB did NOTHING to that guy!"), the audio officially gets muffled. Now I don't know if that's Terry yellin so loud he blew out the mic, or if it's MLB attempting (and failing) to scrub out this part of the audio. They did try to have it erased from the internet after all, I just wouldn't be surprised if the muffled audio *exactly* at that part was intentional.
I was a D-1 and Minor League umpire and this is not unusual. As a matter of fact the only reason Collins was so pissed is because his guy missed Utley and you better believe everyone including Utley knew they were gona come after him. Thats why he didn't look surprised when the ball went behind him. MLB wont admit it, but warnings are issued to kinda give one retaliation shot. If you listen closely Hallion actually tells Collins..."you had your shot". In this situation great job by the umpires. Warnings wasn't gona cut it. There was a really good chance that he would have thrown at him on the very next pitch. Hallion was spot on. There is a great video by Jonboy where he does a lip reading of Hallion torching a coach. BTW Great break down of the game within the game.
Gotta love it . I remember one of the umpires brother was on the other team we were playing one time . Their pitcher had a huge zone . Seemed like he just couldn’t throw a damn ball . And our pitcher had the zone the size of a marble . Which also caused us to just have to basically swing at everything no matter what . The guy we had on the mound could throw some gas……coach calls time and brings us to meet on the mound . He calls for a next pitch fast ball right at umps shoulder . For the catcher too.sell it . After he shook it off he knew what was up and called the game A little more fair .
That phrase or something very close is used in the movie "No Country for Old Men" that is the first thing that came to mind when I heard this. Josh Brolin says it to the taxi driver outside of his motel. "Your ass is already in the jackpot, I'm trying to get you out of it" something like that
Time was, if a player had done something like what Utley did to Tejada (or not even as bad as causing a serious injury), he knew he was going to be plunked in a subsequent at-bat. It's just how the game was played. It was almost a badge of honor for both the pitcher and the batter, and the scales were once again balanced, and the game went on without further incident. And you can get a sense of that from what Terry (an old-school baseball man) was saying. "You gotta give us a shot." The team's honor depended on getting retaliation, especially when MLB did nothing. Frankly, I'd like to see a return to that kind of thinking in baseball. No ego; not trying to really injure the guy. Just returning balance to the situation.
I blame Syndergaard. If he'd hit Utley and been ejected, it would have all gone a lot more calmly. The ejection is more credible, and we carry on. ---As the Mets manager following the ejection I would have had my next pitcher throw at Utley, and simply bean him every single time he came to the plate that day, fines be damned. The Mets have long had a reputation as soft, as weak, and Utley ruined a ballplayer's career. At the least, as far as you knew at the time, Utley wrecked Tejada's 2016 season with a dirty, dirty slide, that MLB couldn't be bothered to punish. Either that or start a melee with 40 guys going after Utley, and make sure he ends up 1 on 1 with your nastiest fighter. ---Too much? That slide still steams me.
@@johnstrawb3521 Maybe bring a backup position player in to pitch after Syndergaard's ejection. Preferably one with a good arm. Then the team won't be hurt too much when he gets suspended...
next at bat, not the next year. This was intent to injure Utley and had nothing to do with real baseball. Disgusting act by both the team and the manager.
Note to self: Be actively looking for ways to use the phase "ass in the jackpot" in future conversations, even though not exactly sure if that was the expression or what it means. And dang, the still shot of that guy catching air from the runner's slide!
Can you do a video about the 1989 game between the Pirates and The Phillies, the Pirates scored 10 runs in the first inning and the Pirates announcer said "If the Pirates lose this game, I'll walk all the way back to Pittsburgh" the Pirates lost 15-11 and at after that season he actually walked from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. It took him a few days but I can't remember how many days and I also don't remember the announcer's name. It would be so cool if BaseballHistorian were to do a video on it so he can give context about the game.
Well I’ve got some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that I probably won’t be doing a video on that game. The good news is that it’s because there’s already an amazing 35-min video on it from the folks over at Secret Base, so I highly recommend checking that out! I believe it’s called “How to score 10 runs in the first inning and lose.”
That was Pirates announcer Jim Rooker. I forget what cause he sponsored with his Philly to Pittsburgh walk, but he raised a lot of money for charity doing it. People were contributing in order to walk part of the route with him. For the longest time, he owned Rook's Cantina in Ambridge, Pa., and on most night, you could catch him serving customers and talking baseball. The place burned down about 7 or 8 years ago...I think he had sold it by then.
Seems that no lead is safe against the Phillies. The very next season, the Dodgers were beating the Phillies 11-1 in the 7th inning. Was 11-3 going to the top of the 9th, Phillies scored 9 runs to win the game. Tommy LaSorda was PISSED!! At that time, I lived in Southern California, but disliked the Dodgers, I had a lot of fun roasting my Dodger fan coworkers the next day! 😁
The worst thing about this event is how Syndergaard was so obvious about being way inside, that Utley didn't even have to move to get out of the way. What a waste.
How the hell did I miss this? Been watching baseball since 2010! Glad I saw a Facebook reel about this. Didn't expect to see Captain Raymond Holt, too (RIP).
I don't know. I think De Niro would be better as Collins and Pacino would be better as Hallion. De Niro would play an out of control hot head better while Pacino would be better as the calm mediator.
As per the rules, If a player is called out on the field they are assumed out so in this case Utley didn’t have to touch the bag cuz he thought he was out
That video was amazing! Truly I will never see baseball the same way again. I'm actually glad this edge of the game is private. If it wasn't guys would likely censor themselves anyway, as they do during interviews. However, I never expected that a coach would be so blunt about it. Always figured they were just yelling fudge you doodiehead.
This happens almost every game after an ejection when there is an argument between the ejecting umpire and an arguing player or coach. The ejecting umpire will explain what went on in terms of the ejection, but if things get heated, then the crew chief or the other umpire (if doing a 2-man system) comes in and intercepts the arguing coach/player and then directs them to him/her. This absolutely diffuses the situation because the coach/player is upset usually at the ejecting umpire, but now they are yelling at an umpire that didn't do the ejection, so the intercepting umpire then just diffuses the situation, usually just being a listener, and slowly leads the ejected player/coach off the field. Here we just got the audio into how this happens in a more prolonged situation, but this kind of thing happens at all levels of baseball. Really good umpiring by Tom Halyon here.
Hallion was masterful here: honest, sympathetic, and just decently, manfully, trying to defuse everyone's uncontrolled rage. Hallion represents the best of umpiring.
@@Veganerd_ Yeah no doubt and I never like the idea of intentionally injuring anyone but I doubt thor had the command to put a slider in the right spot, hell he missed with the FB LOL which isn't as surprising as it should be.
He left on pretty bad terms and continues to talk bad about a team and fanbase that loved him. I don't hate him now but it is bothersome to see any player do this to a team and place he was beloved
We've been beaten up on - physically - for the past who knows how many years. This past season I think we had the most hit batters over the regular season (112 HBP which is the most since 1900). Over the last 150(ish) years, the Mets are in the top 25 - 3 times. The managers, the players, the fans... everyone has had enough with the BS.
Great breakdown. Umps get a lot of deserved criticism, but they do a lot to control situations from getting out of hand. Manager negotiators, if you will.
Even if Chase never got hit like he deserved the fact that he tarnished the reputation of his entire career in one play will likely live with him forever
Pete Rose destroyed Fosse career with that play. Fosse was never the same. I never forgot how unnecessary that play was. Karmas a bitch as Pete Rose found out.
When Terry is yelling "you gotta give us a shot", I interpret that as the ump taking away the Met's best shot to win the game by ejecting their pitcher without a warning. Not a shot at hitting Utley.
Yup, that's why he said "I know but it was the wrong time to do it." But I say if you're gonna retaliate, you gotta plunk the guy. Maybe Syndergaard thought he'd just get a warning?
Ass in the jackpot is Baltimore/East Cost style police slang for getting caught by internal affairs or your superior doing something on the job that is a crime or serious violation of policy. It's getting in trouble like your were a kid. I still don't understand it perfectly exactly. A jackpot is usually such a big deal that you get demoted or fired. Really popularized again by David Simon. He used it in "Homicide" the book that inspired the Homicide TV show, and again when he wrote "The Wire" on HBO. I remember it was used a lot on NYPD Blue (also written/produced by a former police I think). On those shows, and maybe in real life still today, it's the two sides of being a police, the thin blue line and all that. There's the day to day life where rules and policy aren't perfectly followed and usually the cops protect each other. But if the bosses or internal affairs(cops who investigate other cops) get wind of the a serious crime or violation, then that was internal affairs department's "jackpot". Nobody ever wants to put themselves or their co-workers into a jackpot because it's like a betrayal of that thin blue line stuff. So, Hallion is saying to Collins that if the umpires don't eject Syndergaard for a pitch the umpires thought was intentionally thrown at a batter, then the umpire crew for that game would be "in the jackpot" or facing discipline from MLB. He's almost saying that he and Collins are the same and that they know what it's like down there on the field every day, but the bosses upstairs at MLB are the ones making the decisions. The rule book leaves no wiggle room for pitches that in the umpires judgement are thrown intentionally at a batter. If the Umps don't follow the rules, especially in a situation like this, then they might get demoted or taken off of playoff assignments in the future. Hallion is trying to de-escalate the situation by saying almost that he agrees with Collins and wants the Mets to 'get their shot' at retaliation, but that can't happen because if the Umps allowed it then the whole umpire crew could be 'in the jackpot.' Everybody on an MLB field, players and even the umpires, all look out for each other. It's like a big fraternity, nobody want's to put another guy in the jackpot. Sorry for such a long comment! Just found this...More examples of the jackpot in media and history here: deadspin.com/on-the-origins-use-and-meaning-of-ass-in-the-jackpot-1827286762
Yup. This entire thing can be summarized as "Guy does legal slide. Results in injury. Suspension gets rescinded because it was legal. Rule is changed to make injuries in this situation less likely. Pitcher acts like an idiot and tries to injure a guy with a pitch. Fails. Gets rightfully tossed. Manager gets angry because he thinks throwing fastballs at guys heads is acceptable and it shouldn't result in an ejection unless it succeeds. Gets rightfully tossed. Umps upset audio gets leaked."
I think these things need to stay private, if for no reason that people would eventually find something they didn't like and it would cause a huge controversy. I'm not old, not even 30, and when I played in high school, hell even men's league softball, conversations like this weren't out of the ordinary. My brother was bat boy for a minor league team when he was in middle school and heard stuff like this all the time. The problem is, this is normal in the sports world but not seen as normal outside of it, and while many would find it fascinating, me included, I wouldn't want the discussions on the field to become self-censored because this stuff became public.
When Terry Collins said "You gotta give us a shot ...", he didn't mean that the umpires needed to give the Mets a chance to get revenge for what Utley did. He just meant you gotta give us a chance to compete in that series, because essentially they were taking away the Mets' ace started before the game even began.
Until now, I always saw "you got to give us a shot" as meaning we have a "right" to hit Utley for what he did. Well, Thor took his shot and missed. The intent was obvious and the umpire didn't want to give him a second shot I suppose. However, knowing the situation, he should have given a warning before the game. The Mets might have gone ahead with hitting him anyway and the ejection would have been accepted, at least more graciously. But it doesn't make sense to me now in the context and I think you're right. Collins is saying that after the fact. He may have just been saying, if you had issued a warning, I would have talked to Syndergaard because he's more important to winning the game and not screw up my bullpen the next few days.
This game was the season after the Utley cross-body hit, no slide. The "give us a shot" line had nothing to do with competing in that series. Collins says right after the "give us a shot" line "the league did nothing to that guy." The "give was a shot" line was revenge and the two umpires agreed with Collins but were told by the league to not allow any attempt at revenge. That's what happens when the league decides to create "new school" rules to curb "old school" behavior in between seasons. Collins should have been more pissed at Syndergaard for MISSING Utley with the pitch!!!
Terry Collins was an amazing manager. He protected his players. He did amazing things with the crappy rosters the Wilpons kept giving him year in and year out.
I bet if he would have hit him, he wouldn't have gotten ejected. He missed with an intentional pitch, and you know the next pitch would have been another 99 to the ribs. I bet the umps were warned or cautioned about not letting things get out of hand. He had to toss him. But I really think if he hit him, no one would have gotten tossed and Utley wouldn't have even flinched.
I have used this line at work with my team. When upper management is buggin about production or whatever. Also, i umpire and can confirm exchanges like this happen all the time. Hopefully, you've earned yourself some respect and credibility from coaches, so these interactions end well.
I'm a Mets fan so I remember this vividly. It changed the entire series. Don't forget that Chase Muttley was a Philly for 11 years before going to the Diggers. It all stinks to high hell
I’ve been a baseball coach for over 30 years at many different levels… I’ve been thrown out at least 6 or 7 times. I obviously did not agree with the Umpires during my time but…. I do not fault them for tossing me. It’s their job to maintain control of the game ….
Interesting to hear that the ump most likely agreed with the Mets I think he agreed and not just trying to deescalate the situation. Thank you for explaining the before for all the non MLB fans including myself
A video on this game? Wow!!! I was at the game the previous day, when Curtis Granderson got his second career walk-off home run. All of Citi Field chanting "Utley Sucks!!!". I was watching the news on tv about what happened here.
There's a scene in No Country for Old Men where Josh Brolin is in a cab, trying to dodge some assassins, and he tells the driver to take him somewhere else and the driver replies "i dont want to be in some kind of jackpot here." It basically is a sarcastic phrase that means "Im already in this game, and i dont want to win the terrible prize."
Another use of the term "jackpot" comes in No Country For Old Men. When the main character takes a cab ride back to his motel, he notices the curtain of his room has moved so he asks the cab driver to take him to another motel. The cab driver says, "I don't to get in some kind of jackpot." To which the main character responds, "you're already in a jackpot and I'm trying to get you out."
The jackpot is like a bank of slot machines, with the big number up top that keeps going up, and up, and up, and up, and then, all at once, BOOM! Someone gets the whole thing, all at once. Like boiling point, or the needle that broke the camel's back, or something like that.
I remember hearing about this ejection and I remember hearing about the injury caused by utley. But I never considered that these two events were connected.
lol oh fuck, I've heard it was legendary. I didn't know it was that level. Now is that more legend the Lou Piniella...being Lou Piniella. Fucking up the field walking away with a base bag. or (trying to) chuck them into stands or...the one time he tried to dick punch a ump and...basically him being on brand.
Love how as soon as Hallion says "Our ass is in the jackpot," anyone he's talking to is instantly shut down like "Oh fuck, their ass is in the jackpot. Give up." 😂
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According to Merriam-Webster “Jackpot” in the western US can mean in a tight spot. Which of course fits here our ass is in a tight spot. You either eject the pitcher and piss his team and the fans off. Or you piss of dodgers fans keeping the pitcher in for a free shot at the batter. Which of course for the Mets does it really feel the same level of revenge if the batter 100% knows he’s gonna be hit? They ump seems to agree Chase should be hit because the league didn’t punish him. They know what they want but they know it’s not gonna fly on the back end because even without audio everyone would know the umps essentially are telling Chase to get fucked you’ll be taking a pitch.
Jackpot is not that rare but it is kind of old school. In No Country For Old Men when Llewellyn is approaching the hotel in the cab the drivers says " I don't want to get in some kind of jackpot here..."and Llewellyn saws "Look, You're already in a jackpot..."Thats just one off the top of my head but in older movies/novels its used quite a bit.
"...the Platonic Ideal of a manager ejection." As a philosophy scholar, I approve this usage. Splendid video.
Until you hear it with no music
When the audio for this ejection first came out, I listened to it several times, because I wanted to hear what an ejection conversation sounded like. And I wasn't disappointed at all.
Look up the Earl Weaver ejection. Absolute classic.
All of them are usually different this one was on the high end of the spectrum of juicy though
@@socialumpire Hallion says a couple of very interesting things. First to Syndergaard: "That's the wrong time to do it, that's all." So Hallion gets that Utley should be getting plunked, just not right then, because MLB knew things could get out of hand and ordered the crew to stop it before it starts. Then he says to Collins, "You know where I stand on the whole...situation." So obviously these guys have talked about it, and Hallion clearly sympathized with Collins. I don't know if that meant he agreed with the call to plunk Utley, but based on what he said to Syndergaard I don't think he would have shed any tears over it.
@@XXelpollodiabloXX well you got to know these people personally or have some sort of understanding of who they are and what they represent. I’m not saying I know them, but I do know some of these guys like him, Cuzzi, Ted, and others are very old school. Meaning they didn’t have any issues with the slide or the get back.
@@socialumpire I'm pretty old school. I hate the "bona fide slide" rule. I think going hard into a fielder to break up a double play is (or should be) part of that game. _But_ even that has limits. If Utley slides 5 - 6 feet before the bag and goes into him that hard, I've got no problem with it. That's the game. It's that he is even with the bag when he starts his slide, when it was totally unnecessary. I guess for me there is a difference between playing hard and playing dirty, and I thought it was dirty. I got the sense that Hallion thought the same thing. I just always found the "that just wasn't the right time for that" comment to be very telling.
Completely agree that Tom Hallion did a phenomenal job with this situation. Trying to imagine Joe West in his shoes. Would have actually gone nuclear.
You're wrong about West - like him or not. However the horrendous umpiring crews of 2023 would have ejected 37 players and made a mockery out of the situation.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate that MLB wanted this scrubbed from online existence because of Hallion dancing around one of baseball’s unwritten rules. Instead, he should’ve been applauded for his near perfect diffusion of Collins’ meltdown, letting him get it off his chest, and possibly keeping the situation from getting out of hand. Baseball is full of unwritten rules, and it’s actually one of the things people love about the sport. Everyone enjoys a little controversy, and the drama that comes with it. Think about all the people fans who turned-in specifically to see what was going to happen when Utley stepped in the batter’s box. Considering how all parties involved “knew what the situation was,” the crew chief should’ve issued warnings before the game. That’s what MLB should’ve been focusing on, not what Hallion said to diffuse the situation.
Joe West is a good umpire I think. He handles Lou Pinella just fine lol. And that guys got a fuse that's shorter then a blade of grass.. Being a Mariners fan I love Lou Pinella. But the umpire who really would have handled this situation really really bad and possibly got someone really hurt is Angel Hernandez
And the man who took away Utley's suspension was an ex-Dodger mgr. HELLOOO!?!?!?😂
Hallion was a damned good umpire, this is another example...
What I find really interesting is how Terry Collins reacts to the ump saying "our ass is in the Jackpot now" like he knows exactly what he is talking about.
Its pretty obvious... Just means MLB wouldn't be happy if they didn't eject syndergaard. Bad for business...
Yeah to me it seemed like an obvious way of saying "I have liability now if I don't make this call."
He was saying everyone knew the situation- that orders came down (presumably from the MLB) that there should be no reprisals against Utley- and now that a blatant attempt had been made, it was all on him if he didn't make the call to toss him out.
Any form of Organized Sports from Sandlot to the pros always has arse "In The Jackpot."
@@danielhayes7967 Yeah, it’s a pretty common term (and pretty easy to understand)
@@chucksneed5405 Utley wouldn't have had that kind of protection from the officials if it wasn't a Met he kneecapped. Sad to know I was right about all of this.....
As a met fan , the tejada injury was devastating. It felt like he was done wrong, Not an unfortunate bi product of competition. We felt intent on the part of Utley. I respect Collins even more then I already did..his passion was real.
He had passion, I'll agree with that; and as a Dodger fan, I agree that the Utley slide was not good. In this case though, his passion was in the wrong place. Syndergaard's pitch was clearly intentional (and everyone in that park knew that from their reaction), and as such, he deserved to be thrown out of the game. What I love about this ejection is that the umpire was not only absolutely right in ejecting both people, what he said to Collins was right on the money.
You really think Utley was intending to hurt Tejada? The slide was not good, I don't think anyone disputes that.
Utley was trying to tie a game in a series they were already down 1-0 and the only way to do that was take tejada out. I can’t blame him for it, but they should’ve gotten a shot on utley before an ejection
@@waltercampbell9787 I still don't think he was trying to "take tejada out". I think he was trying to prevent the double play like we were all taught to do (Unless that's what you mean by taking him out). Was it over the line? Of course, but if you look at the play in slow motion, Tejada tries to do this twirl instead of coming across the bag (which is what normally happens). Utley tried to adjust his slide to put himself into a new position to break it up, but ends up going face first into Tejada's leg. Yeah, Utley used his face to break it up. If there was intent, I would think he would choose something other than his face.
whether you think Utley’s shitty slide was intentional or not, him not being punished for it whatsoever totally warranted the rage of the Mets and their fans.
As a Mets fan this gave me a whole new level of love and appreciation for Terry. For a manager to still care so much a year later shows the bonds he made with the team. Between that and his feelings on letting Santana finish the no no.
As a Dodger fan, I agree that Utley's slide was a bad one. In this case though, Collins passion was in the wrong place. Syndergaard's pitch was clearly intentional (and everyone in that park knew that from their reaction), and as such, he deserved to be thrown out of the game. What I love about this ejection is that the umpire was not only absolutely right in ejecting both people, what he said to Collins was right on the money.
@@Joe_Okey Utley ended a guy's career. An intentional throw behind the back did nothing but send a message. Even if Syndergaard hit him in the side, it wouldn't end his career. Your logic makes no sense. Also, fuck the Dodgers. And fuck Chase Utley. Seriously.
@@Joe_Okey Besides the fact that the "you know the situation" excuse has no merit. There should have been a pregame warning based on MLB rules and "unspoken rules", especially if the umpire is aware theres a situation. That's all more reason to issue warnings instead of waiting for something to come to ahead. Collins was more in the right in saying the MLB did nothing to Utley.
@@super8bitvideos The reason they did nothing to Utley, is that the slide was NOT illegal at that time, it was Utley's slide that resulted in the rule change AFTER the fact.
@@alvinpietzsch1534 Remember that A. The slide was NOT illegal at that time, it was Utley's slide that resulted in the rule change AFTER the fact. and B. There was NO denying that the pitch was intentional and why, which is why he was ejected from the ballgame. Also, there is no way that Utley was intending to injure Tejada, he was ONLY trying to break up the double play, the injury was an unfortunate happenstance.
The ump saying “Our ass is in the jackpot” in this case means that he feels he and the rest of the umpiring crew would be in serious trouble if they didn’t react to the Mets’ retaliation against Utley.
Also, you can find another similar reference to being “in a jackpot” in the movie “No Country for Old Men”. :)
Came here to say this and to use that movie/book to explain
Great movie...
I was thinking the same thing...
Was gonna say, I've definitely heard "ass in the jackpot" multiple times before and it wasn't in reference to this ump
NYPD Blue used it referring to being in a big mess thats gonna land on you
You got me laughing here! I know it wasn't intentional - but sometimes the phrases and colloquialisms we use, when thought through, are funny.
First, I regret that Tejada was injured and his career derailed. Second, Baseball has a long history of allowing take-out slides; yet, I thought the Game had instituted stiffer punishments for obvious divergent slides. We've got stuff on camera and it doesn't take a day to analyze a play.
So everyone in Baseball knew what was brewing and the umpires had to maintain order.
I was thinking: a jackpot is supposed to be a boon for whoever hits it - a good thing, a prize. So, if your ass is in the jackpot, how can that be a good thing for you? And who hits that figurative jackpot and wins the prize? The public?
Anyway, thanks for your comment and giving me occasion to respond.
God. Game 3 of that NLDS was ELECTRIC. Sold out for the first ever playoff game at Citi Field, and every fan, myself included, was so hyped, but absolutely ENRAGED at Utley for what he did. The thundering boos for him, the huge cheers for Tejada when he appeared on the field in crutches, and the subsequent blowout that followed made all of us feel great.
Hallion is a great umpire. He did very well being calm and decisive with Thor, then he takes Terry aside so he doesn’t get in more trouble by being overheard by other umpires. Give that man a medal.
Hallion retired at the end of last season.
Collins endeared himself to Mets fans forever after this clip came out. That said, Hallion did a great job of handling and diffusing the situation. You got reality out of both men, and he also handled the infielders calmly and rationally before taking on Collins. I know the crew chief's are trained to attempt to redirect the manager to them as opposed to another member of the team. Just smooth all around and yeah, quite entertaining. LFGM!
I figured that "ass in the jackpot" meant that the umpire crew was now responsible to handle the retaliation to Utley before it turns into a shit show of a game.
and if they don't handle it properly then they are getting punished for it.
When I was a kid, an umpire told me to follow him to the bullpen so he could show me his “fancy new balls.”
Turns out he wasn’t actually an umpire.
Lmao Tung
Yeah, that's exactly how I'm reading it. Similar to something like 'we are in the spotlight now' - everyone was watching, waiting for Utley to get pegged. Now, the real question is how far the umps let it go. One was inevitable, but and can't be controlled. But you CAN stop this from cascading into total madness.
@@pwnmasteh Exactly. MLB told the umpires how to handle it and if they deviated, the umpires would face repercussions.
36 year Umpire here: We umps love this video for the beautiful way that it shows how umps work together to defuse a situation. Hallion did everything a crew chief should do, he took the heat off the home plate ump and put it on himself. The key to this is to have let Collins work his anger out on him. If you noticed, Hallion really didn't argue with Collins as much as listen to him. Excellent all around umpiring here.
Wrong! the whole situation from the slide to the ejections shows how corrupt and incompetent the MLB and umps are
@@jamesberry3230 Not even gonna dignify this with a response.
@@traderneal Good. Because you apparently don't understand the meaning of dignity.
So I guess the umpiring attitudes changed in 2015 when this video was taken and when you started umpiring. Umpires want to be the center of attention at games now. The quick ejection was unwarranted considering what Utley did to Tejada. Utley was not even disciplined for his slide which was nowhere close to 2nd base. Utley's sole action was to take out Tejada so he couldn't complete the double play. What if this happened today. The lack of knowledge and compassion umpires have for this great game is gone and they would have made a mockery out of this!!
The umps actually escalated the situation by ejecting Noah without warning the benches. Umpires screw up ALL THE TIME. I remember a game KC vs Toronto. The KC pitcher beaned a Blue Jay. The ump warned BOTH benches (which is stupid because Toronto did nothing at that point). The KC pitchers then start throwing at Toronto players and nothing happens. Then they HIT a Blue Jay and the umps just give him first base...NO EJECTION. The Blue Jay manager comes out to ask why, guess what, HE gets ejected!!! Damn umps are crooked or just stupid. I don't know which is worse!! So they eject Noah for something that happened a year before? How stupid are umpires anyways? Don't even get me started on their horrible strike zones
Due to the iconic catch phrase i think people failed to see what the best part of all of this was. It was the showcasing of the companionship and brotherhood that is created when you are on a sports team that transcends the actual sport. It doesnt matter if youre in little league or the major leagues those players and coaches become your family. It was so awesome to see a coach have that much passion and trying to get revenge for his player's injury. Thats the type of coach you want to play for.
Im a lifelong Mets fan and when i had seen this Collins had instantly became one of my fav all time coaches not because of his skill i think could name a bunch better imo but because of the love he showed Tejada.
Tom Hallion will always be the man for how he handled this
Definitely! He handled this situation incredibly well by distancing Terry from the other umps and speaking to him as an equal. He seemed to be very understanding of Syndergaard, but knew he had to eject him due to the rules
He didn’t have a choice. His ass was in the jackpot.
@@anjrued He certainly knew the situation.
Disagree. The whole ump crew blew this one. That includes Hallion, who justified it.
@@dashx1103 Hallion cant argue with the other umps and mlb bro
EVERYONE was/is on the Mets side here. I say this as a Dodger fan. I would have loved to see Utley get hammered.
I banned him for life from Association Baseball, if that helps.
The dialogue and delivery between Hallion and Collins is so good it almost feels scripted. I feel like Hallion saw that 2000 made-for-TV movie, liked it, and stored it in the memory bank for the right moment.
Wow this is a really good video. The only instance I can remember of someone using that term "jackpot" outside of a gambling context was in the movie No Country For Old Men when the cab driver says it to the main protagonist when he is concerned about being put in a precarious situation. Makes sense in both scenario to me now.
As a Mets fan, I loved this breakdown. The Earl Weaver video is another classic.
You are a LIAR Earl! You're a LIAR!
"I've won more than I've lost, pal!"
You are probably a Yankee hater but what about Billy Martin? (I'm not a Yankees fan, but the Pirates) I think Sparky Anderson may have a few too?
@@carasmussen27 not a Yankee hater. Those are legit too, though I haven’t heard audio on them.
Earl tried for about 10 minutes to get thrown out but the umpire wouldn't do it.
Essentially saying that “my ass is in the jackpot” essentially just means I am stuck with a bad hand, but my future is on the line, essentially another way to say they are stuck in a bad situation.
I'm neither a Mets or Dodger fan but I remember this vividly. I was disappointed on so many levels. First, that it actually happened and Utley only got a two game suspension. Secondly, that he was allowed to play while the suspension was being appealed and lastly, that Joe Torre overturned the entire thing. All the while, Tejada was actually injured and was never the same after that. Terry Collins, the Mets and Dodgers and the umpires all knew what was happening and unfortunately, these things happen all too often. MLB needs stricter rules and punishments to keep this kind of stuff from happening.
the whole incident shows the bias of the MLB; UTley should have been fined a half years salary and suspended a half years worth of games and Dodgers fined an amount equal to Tejada's yearly salary and Torre told to keep his mouth shut
Utley should have had his helmet knocked off with that pitch.
It was an unfortunate accident. Utley does what needs to be done to make the play time and time again. Can’t fault him for that. At the time he broke no rules. I mean, we could just make it a game where everyone wins and we don’t keep score, but what fun would that be?
He didn't break any rules though. It's not his fault that tejada can't take a hit. Takeout slides and home plate contact should have stayed legal. If they get hurt, maybe they won't block the plate or get in the runners way.
@@aggravatedstrawberrythe reason he “couldn’t take the hit” is that his knee got hit by utley’s helmet. The helmet was the thing that did the damage I’m sure of it. Plus baseball isn’t a contact sport. There should NOT be that level of contact that was in the 70s and 80s as it’s a skill game, not a contact one.
I'm feeling old now. No one remembers the Earl Weaver video where he got tossed like 2 batters into a game for arguing a balk? Ends up being him and the ump just talking shit to each other. It's almost poetry.
lol you to? or the many many many many times Lou Piniella ripped into, and cursed out umpire along with messing up their shoes and heaving a base bag into the stands. One of the times he did that, IIRC they didn't have a spare bag so the ground crew came and marked where the base is instead. lol like ok guys just roll with it pls.
Yeah thats on you tube...earl is saying hes a hall of fame manager, and the ump says, Not after you blew World Series (1969?)
I remember watching that game on tv. First time I watched a ejection on tv. Didn’t know I was witnessing history
me too actually lol. lifelong dodger fan but i really felt for the mets, esp bc thor didnt get a warning. i think if he had actually beaned utley and then that had been the end of it, it woulda been vaguely more fair.
lol haven't been around long has you? back in the day pitchers would ding batters, batters would charge the mound and pound the daylights out of a pitcher. then a hockey game breaks out. Right along with about a bajillion fines and a half million ejections while umps go: "oh hell no...well where do we even start with notes? lets see: both teems fined, number 7,22,55,67,69,99,50,51,52...ejected.oh right head coaches ejected..."
That Homicide clip was from the TV movie when Bayliss and Pembleton were talking about the internet killer Luke Ryland (S7 Ep 13). 16 years later, Hallion used the jackpot phrase.
In Tom’s context, if the crew did nothing, they were going to be fined or suspended for not enforcing the rule book. Adam Hamari (pronounced as HAM-er-e) was a AAA call up at that time, he could have been fired if he didn’t eject (or warn at the least). I think when this leaked, MLB had to change the way this was handled…which they did in 2020. Now the crew will discuss and warn or eject as they see fit.
This is a really great video. Good job and thank you for putting this together. I loved this original video MLB should put these out there on their own bc seeing this stuff is great for the fans.
A little brief windows into the reality of baseball is super fun. They knew what was happening, they understood why, they had to enforce the rules. Only thing that can be said if you're going to hit a guy, you should probably actually hit them.
That is part of what should be the point here. HE DIDN'T HIT UTLEY. That could been the end of it, if the umps just issued warnings then. But, no ... they decide to punish the Met for NOT HITTING the guy who went unpunished for breaking a Met leg. I can't believe that people don't see how f*cked up this is. The umps and MLB were completely wrong here.
LOl that was the best part! lol not that he almost hit the guy, but should at least pretend and do it on the second pitch, and make sure to hit his dick oh and... lol wtf.
Braves fan here, and as many will know from that statement alone I absolutely hate the Mets. I started watching last year and never knew this had happened and I never thought I would see the day where I am on the Mets side of the argument but here we are. That type of play doesn’t belong in baseball and utley should have been punished by mlb.
👏👏👏
Didn’t always love Terry but this has always been so hilarious and was awesome as a Mets fan
An old school baseball manager should have been ok with Utley’s slide. It’s a man’s game!
@@volodymyrzablotsky5372 there’s playing hard and playing dirty, that’s why people had a big issue with Utley
How can you not love Terry? Mets went to the World Series
as a die hard Mets fan of 40 years i LOVE this video!!!!! great job!
Something that I always thought was interesting about the video, and I hope this doesn't sound too conspiratorial lol, is that once Terry officially name drops MLB (re: "MLB did NOTHING to that guy!"), the audio officially gets muffled. Now I don't know if that's Terry yellin so loud he blew out the mic, or if it's MLB attempting (and failing) to scrub out this part of the audio. They did try to have it erased from the internet after all, I just wouldn't be surprised if the muffled audio *exactly* at that part was intentional.
I was a D-1 and Minor League umpire and this is not unusual. As a matter of fact the only reason Collins was so pissed is because his guy missed Utley and you better believe everyone including Utley knew they were gona come after him. Thats why he didn't look surprised when the ball went behind him. MLB wont admit it, but warnings are issued to kinda give one retaliation shot. If you listen closely Hallion actually tells Collins..."you had your shot". In this situation great job by the umpires. Warnings wasn't gona cut it. There was a really good chance that he would have thrown at him on the very next pitch. Hallion was spot on. There is a great video by Jonboy where he does a lip reading of Hallion torching a coach. BTW Great break down of the game within the game.
If no warning was issued and Syndergaard was ejected, .. when exactly did the Mets "get their shot?"
Gotta love it . I remember one of the umpires brother was on the other team we were playing one time . Their pitcher had a huge zone . Seemed like he just couldn’t throw a damn ball . And our pitcher had the zone the size of a marble . Which also caused us to just have to basically swing at everything no matter what . The guy we had on the mound could throw some gas……coach calls time and brings us to meet on the mound . He calls for a next pitch fast ball right at umps shoulder . For the catcher too.sell it . After he shook it off he knew what was up and called the game
A little more fair .
That phrase or something very close is used in the movie
"No Country for Old Men" that is the first thing that came to mind when I heard this. Josh Brolin says it to the taxi driver outside of his motel.
"Your ass is already in the jackpot, I'm trying to get you out of it" something like that
I love those 1986 style Mets unis I wish theyd wear them more often!
We don’t need empire mics when all we need is jomboy
The phrase "in a jackpot" in this context also appears in the book No Country for Old Men, and the subsequent film as well.
This was a great video.
Time was, if a player had done something like what Utley did to Tejada (or not even as bad as causing a serious injury), he knew he was going to be plunked in a subsequent at-bat. It's just how the game was played. It was almost a badge of honor for both the pitcher and the batter, and the scales were once again balanced, and the game went on without further incident. And you can get a sense of that from what Terry (an old-school baseball man) was saying. "You gotta give us a shot." The team's honor depended on getting retaliation, especially when MLB did nothing.
Frankly, I'd like to see a return to that kind of thinking in baseball. No ego; not trying to really injure the guy. Just returning balance to the situation.
Good post David….
I blame Syndergaard. If he'd hit Utley and been ejected, it would have all gone a lot more calmly. The ejection is more credible, and we carry on. ---As the Mets manager following the ejection I would have had my next pitcher throw at Utley, and simply bean him every single time he came to the plate that day, fines be damned. The Mets have long had a reputation as soft, as weak, and Utley ruined a ballplayer's career. At the least, as far as you knew at the time, Utley wrecked Tejada's 2016 season with a dirty, dirty slide, that MLB couldn't be bothered to punish. Either that or start a melee with 40 guys going after Utley, and make sure he ends up 1 on 1 with your nastiest fighter. ---Too much? That slide still steams me.
@@johnstrawb3521 Maybe bring a backup position player in to pitch after Syndergaard's ejection. Preferably one with a good arm. Then the team won't be hurt too much when he gets suspended...
next at bat, not the next year. This was intent to injure Utley and had nothing to do with real baseball. Disgusting act by both the team and the manager.
@@JPF941 said the beta-male who never played.
Note to self: Be actively looking for ways to use the phase "ass in the jackpot" in future conversations, even though not exactly sure if that was the expression or what it means. And dang, the still shot of that guy catching air from the runner's slide!
The best thing Tom Hallion should have said to Syndigard and Collins was "You had one job and you missed your shot." 😂😂😂
Exactly
Can you do a video about the 1989 game between the Pirates and The Phillies, the Pirates scored 10 runs in the first inning and the Pirates announcer said "If the Pirates lose this game, I'll walk all the way back to Pittsburgh" the Pirates lost 15-11 and at after that season he actually walked from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. It took him a few days but I can't remember how many days and I also don't remember the announcer's name. It would be so cool if BaseballHistorian were to do a video on it so he can give context about the game.
Well I’ve got some good news and some bad news.
The bad news is that I probably won’t be doing a video on that game. The good news is that it’s because there’s already an amazing 35-min video on it from the folks over at Secret Base, so I highly recommend checking that out! I believe it’s called “How to score 10 runs in the first inning and lose.”
That was Pirates announcer Jim Rooker. I forget what cause he sponsored with his Philly to Pittsburgh walk, but he raised a lot of money for charity doing it. People were contributing in order to walk part of the route with him.
For the longest time, he owned Rook's Cantina in Ambridge, Pa., and on most night, you could catch him serving customers and talking baseball. The place burned down about 7 or 8 years ago...I think he had sold it by then.
Seems that no lead is safe against the Phillies. The very next season, the Dodgers were beating the Phillies 11-1 in the 7th inning. Was 11-3 going to the top of the 9th, Phillies scored 9 runs to win the game. Tommy LaSorda was PISSED!! At that time, I lived in Southern California, but disliked the Dodgers, I had a lot of fun roasting my Dodger fan coworkers the next day! 😁
The worst thing about this event is how Syndergaard was so obvious about being way inside, that Utley didn't even have to move to get out of the way. What a waste.
How the hell did I miss this? Been watching baseball since 2010! Glad I saw a Facebook reel about this. Didn't expect to see Captain Raymond Holt, too (RIP).
“MLB did nothing to that guy!”
as a Mets fan, this gave me goosebumps and made my eyes well up. fuck Chase Utley.
this is what baseball needs more of. this is why we love baseball movies like major league
Imagine just this scene played out in a movie, with Al Pacino as Terry Collins and Robert De Niro as Tom Hallion. Lol 😂
I don't know. I think De Niro would be better as Collins and Pacino would be better as Hallion. De Niro would play an out of control hot head better while Pacino would be better as the calm mediator.
Awesome video!!
I do think you missed pointing out a great line from this, when Tom goes
"Terry listen to me and let me hear what I'm saying" XD
One of the worst calls in MLB history. Utley never touched second base
Neither did Tejada, replay showed
@@PhilliesNostalgia Hard to touch second base when someone is aiming for your leg
@@namelesswanderer3759 True
As per the rules, If a player is called out on the field they are assumed out so in this case Utley didn’t have to touch the bag cuz he thought he was out
@@alexdontmatter Only he was NOT ruled out on the play after replay review. So it was all bullshit
The clip of Collin’s yelling at the ump is cinema, by far my favorite mlb moment ever it’s insane. Like a movie
Meanwhile Jomboy sitting back laughing all the way to the bank. 😂who needs microphones on umps when you got the lip reading genius of Jomboy.
That video was amazing! Truly I will never see baseball the same way again. I'm actually glad this edge of the game is private. If it wasn't guys would likely censor themselves anyway, as they do during interviews. However, I never expected that a coach would be so blunt about it. Always figured they were just yelling fudge you doodiehead.
This is why I love baseball: the game behind the game.
This happens almost every game after an ejection when there is an argument between the ejecting umpire and an arguing player or coach. The ejecting umpire will explain what went on in terms of the ejection, but if things get heated, then the crew chief or the other umpire (if doing a 2-man system) comes in and intercepts the arguing coach/player and then directs them to him/her. This absolutely diffuses the situation because the coach/player is upset usually at the ejecting umpire, but now they are yelling at an umpire that didn't do the ejection, so the intercepting umpire then just diffuses the situation, usually just being a listener, and slowly leads the ejected player/coach off the field. Here we just got the audio into how this happens in a more prolonged situation, but this kind of thing happens at all levels of baseball. Really good umpiring by Tom Halyon here.
This was a great video, thanks for putting it together. I remember watching the video of the argument and I was very entertained.
This was an excellent summary of the relevant actions and conversations. I really learned a few things from watching this video!
I was always a big fan of Lou Pinella's meltdowns and ejections.
I gotta add "our ass in the jackpot." Nowon in my day to day vernacular. Its hilarious.
Hallion was masterful here: honest, sympathetic, and just decently, manfully, trying to defuse everyone's uncontrolled rage. Hallion represents the best of umpiring.
Great video. It features a cameo of a guy I know personally (Ty Kelly) and a nod to one of my all-time favorite TV series (Homicide).
Terry was a warrior. The Utley blood goes way back and I only wish he had to play a couple weeks with sore ribs after this.
I would think that 99mph would have him dealing with a couple broken ribs, not just a big bruise. lol
@@Veganerd_ Yeah no doubt and I never like the idea of intentionally injuring anyone but I doubt thor had the command to put a slider in the right spot, hell he missed with the FB LOL which isn't as surprising as it should be.
You've never seen anybody get thrown out with style like Billy Martin (A's).
I do miss Noah in a Mets uniform…🥺 oh the potential…😢
Noah will pitch game 4 of the world series tomorrow. Respect.
@@firstnamelastname6926 only miss his rookie year. Dudes been trash since. And nope he didn’t pitch game 4. Useless
@@markfrascinella8707 he's pitching game 5... rain delay changed the order up. He's going to pitch great in game 5. Cry harder
He left on pretty bad terms and continues to talk bad about a team and fanbase that loved him. I don't hate him now but it is bothersome to see any player do this to a team and place he was beloved
@@firstnamelastname6926 got me, I’m a Mets fan, just call me Jon crier
We've been beaten up on - physically - for the past who knows how many years. This past season I think we had the most hit batters over the regular season (112 HBP which is the most since 1900). Over the last 150(ish) years, the Mets are in the top 25 - 3 times. The managers, the players, the fans... everyone has had enough with the BS.
we went from Terry Collins doing a great job diffusing a situation to creepy hand massages, gotta love umpires
Collins diffused the situation?
You can thank the League office for that
The first time I saw that video I probably watched it 5 or 6 times in a row.. I've been watching baseball since 1988 and it just fascinated me..
Great breakdown. Umps get a lot of deserved criticism, but they do a lot to control situations from getting out of hand. Manager negotiators, if you will.
yeah i wanna hear like every ejection. imagine the year end list of top ejections at the end of the season? that'd be incredible
I named my wifi “Our Ass is in the Jackpot”
😂
I honestly think him saying give us a shot at winning the game.
Even if Chase never got hit like he deserved the fact that he tarnished the reputation of his entire career in one play will likely live with him forever
"Tarnished"? I don't think so. Was Pete Rose's legacy tarnished by the Ray Fosse incident?
@@tedfrommarketing3135 it was until he was banned for gambling
Pete Rose destroyed Fosse career with that play. Fosse was never the same. I never forgot how unnecessary that play was. Karmas a bitch as Pete Rose found out.
@@tedfrommarketing3135 Nothing tarnished Rose as much as his haircut did.
Are you kidding? It made Phillies and Dodgers fans love him even more.
This is an awesome video. And should be a case study for conflict deescalation.
When Terry is yelling "you gotta give us a shot", I interpret that as the ump taking away the Met's best shot to win the game by ejecting their pitcher without a warning. Not a shot at hitting Utley.
Tom Hallion, imo, is/ was one of the best crew chiefs and umpires in the game. This solidified that.
Tommy is one of the GOATs for sure
Syndergaard's "sin" was doing it on the first pitch. He made it obvious.
Yup, that's why he said "I know but it was the wrong time to do it." But I say if you're gonna retaliate, you gotta plunk the guy. Maybe Syndergaard thought he'd just get a warning?
Ass in the jackpot is Baltimore/East Cost style police slang for getting caught by internal affairs or your superior doing something on the job that is a crime or serious violation of policy. It's getting in trouble like your were a kid. I still don't understand it perfectly exactly. A jackpot is usually such a big deal that you get demoted or fired. Really popularized again by David Simon. He used it in "Homicide" the book that inspired the Homicide TV show, and again when he wrote "The Wire" on HBO. I remember it was used a lot on NYPD Blue (also written/produced by a former police I think). On those shows, and maybe in real life still today, it's the two sides of being a police, the thin blue line and all that. There's the day to day life where rules and policy aren't perfectly followed and usually the cops protect each other. But if the bosses or internal affairs(cops who investigate other cops) get wind of the a serious crime or violation, then that was internal affairs department's "jackpot". Nobody ever wants to put themselves or their co-workers into a jackpot because it's like a betrayal of that thin blue line stuff.
So, Hallion is saying to Collins that if the umpires don't eject Syndergaard for a pitch the umpires thought was intentionally thrown at a batter, then the umpire crew for that game would be "in the jackpot" or facing discipline from MLB. He's almost saying that he and Collins are the same and that they know what it's like down there on the field every day, but the bosses upstairs at MLB are the ones making the decisions. The rule book leaves no wiggle room for pitches that in the umpires judgement are thrown intentionally at a batter. If the Umps don't follow the rules, especially in a situation like this, then they might get demoted or taken off of playoff assignments in the future. Hallion is trying to de-escalate the situation by saying almost that he agrees with Collins and wants the Mets to 'get their shot' at retaliation, but that can't happen because if the Umps allowed it then the whole umpire crew could be 'in the jackpot.' Everybody on an MLB field, players and even the umpires, all look out for each other. It's like a big fraternity, nobody want's to put another guy in the jackpot. Sorry for such a long comment!
Just found this...More examples of the jackpot in media and history here:
deadspin.com/on-the-origins-use-and-meaning-of-ass-in-the-jackpot-1827286762
This is the definition of turning a 5 minute story into 15 minutes.
Yup. This entire thing can be summarized as "Guy does legal slide. Results in injury. Suspension gets rescinded because it was legal. Rule is changed to make injuries in this situation less likely. Pitcher acts like an idiot and tries to injure a guy with a pitch. Fails. Gets rightfully tossed. Manager gets angry because he thinks throwing fastballs at guys heads is acceptable and it shouldn't result in an ejection unless it succeeds. Gets rightfully tossed. Umps upset audio gets leaked."
As a Met fan Terry Collins has become one of my favorite Mets managers of all time
I think these things need to stay private, if for no reason that people would eventually find something they didn't like and it would cause a huge controversy. I'm not old, not even 30, and when I played in high school, hell even men's league softball, conversations like this weren't out of the ordinary. My brother was bat boy for a minor league team when he was in middle school and heard stuff like this all the time. The problem is, this is normal in the sports world but not seen as normal outside of it, and while many would find it fascinating, me included, I wouldn't want the discussions on the field to become self-censored because this stuff became public.
Wow, that umpire is seriously incredible. Clearly he has a relationship with these guys and it shows
When Terry Collins said "You gotta give us a shot ...", he didn't mean that the umpires needed to give the Mets a chance to get revenge for what Utley did. He just meant you gotta give us a chance to compete in that series, because essentially they were taking away the Mets' ace started before the game even began.
Until now, I always saw "you got to give us a shot" as meaning we have a "right" to hit Utley for what he did. Well, Thor took his shot and missed. The intent was obvious and the umpire didn't want to give him a second shot I suppose. However, knowing the situation, he should have given a warning before the game. The Mets might have gone ahead with hitting him anyway and the ejection would have been accepted, at least more graciously.
But it doesn't make sense to me now in the context and I think you're right. Collins is saying that after the fact. He may have just been saying, if you had issued a warning, I would have talked to Syndergaard because he's more important to winning the game and not screw up my bullpen the next few days.
This game was the season after the Utley cross-body hit, no slide. The "give us a shot" line had nothing to do with competing in that series. Collins says right after the "give us a shot" line "the league did nothing to that guy." The "give was a shot" line was revenge and the two umpires agreed with Collins but were told by the league to not allow any attempt at revenge. That's what happens when the league decides to create "new school" rules to curb "old school" behavior in between seasons. Collins should have been more pissed at Syndergaard for MISSING Utley with the pitch!!!
Terry Collins was an amazing manager. He protected his players. He did amazing things with the crappy rosters the Wilpons kept giving him year in and year out.
I love Collin's passion for the well-being of his players. He WANTED revenge.
This shit fire. I fuck with you baseball historian
They used being in “a jackpot” a lot on NYPD Blue. That was where I first heard it. It’s really a fun turn of phrase.
I bet if he would have hit him, he wouldn't have gotten ejected. He missed with an intentional pitch, and you know the next pitch would have been another 99 to the ribs. I bet the umps were warned or cautioned about not letting things get out of hand. He had to toss him. But I really think if he hit him, no one would have gotten tossed and Utley wouldn't have even flinched.
I have used this line at work with my team. When upper management is buggin about production or whatever.
Also, i umpire and can confirm exchanges like this happen all the time. Hopefully, you've earned yourself some respect and credibility from coaches, so these interactions end well.
I'm a Mets fan so I remember this vividly. It changed the entire series. Don't forget that Chase Muttley was a Philly for 11 years before going to the Diggers. It all stinks to high hell
I’ve been a baseball coach for over 30 years at many different levels…
I’ve been thrown out at least 6 or 7 times. I obviously did not agree with the Umpires during my time but….
I do not fault them for tossing me.
It’s their job to maintain control of the game ….
You completely missed Hallions saying and meaning of "You just had your 'shot' right there!"
A 'jackpot' is a situation where you find all eyes on you, as in, you've just won a slots jackpot at the casino and now everyones crowding you.
Interesting to hear that the ump most likely agreed with the Mets I think he agreed and not just trying to deescalate the situation. Thank you for explaining the before for all the non MLB fans including myself
A video on this game? Wow!!! I was at the game the previous day, when Curtis Granderson got his second career walk-off home run. All of Citi Field chanting "Utley Sucks!!!". I was watching the news on tv about what happened here.
There's a scene in No Country for Old Men where Josh Brolin is in a cab, trying to dodge some assassins, and he tells the driver to take him somewhere else and the driver replies "i dont want to be in some kind of jackpot here." It basically is a sarcastic phrase that means "Im already in this game, and i dont want to win the terrible prize."
Another use of the term "jackpot" comes in No Country For Old Men. When the main character takes a cab ride back to his motel, he notices the curtain of his room has moved so he asks the cab driver to take him to another motel. The cab driver says, "I don't to get in some kind of jackpot." To which the main character responds, "you're already in a jackpot and I'm trying to get you out."
Imagine if Bobby Cox was mic’d up for when he got mad. The people who have to bleep out that kinda stuff would have field day!
Simply reading the title and thumbnail put a really bright smile on my what's been a real tough day. Thanks, so in
The jackpot is like a bank of slot machines, with the big number up top that keeps going up, and up, and up, and up, and then, all at once, BOOM! Someone gets the whole thing, all at once.
Like boiling point, or the needle that broke the camel's back, or something like that.
I wish we could have got some of Lasorda mic’d up arguments with the umps.
I remember hearing about this ejection and I remember hearing about the injury caused by utley. But I never considered that these two events were connected.
Phil Wellman, has by far the greatest ejection in all sports history.
Rosin bag grenade to the umpire was amazing!
lol oh fuck, I've heard it was legendary. I didn't know it was that level. Now is that more legend the Lou Piniella...being Lou Piniella. Fucking up the field walking away with a base bag. or (trying to) chuck them into stands or...the one time he tried to dick punch a ump and...basically him being on brand.
I want the audio between terry and the other umpire. That's probably even more riveting.
Love how as soon as Hallion says "Our ass is in the jackpot," anyone he's talking to is instantly shut down like "Oh fuck, their ass is in the jackpot. Give up." 😂