How to Choose Your Suspension (FM Live)
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2022
- Choosing the right suspension can be a little frustrating. What's best for your street car? What about track cars? Is comfortable performance possible? Don't worry, Keith to the rescue! In this episode, Keith Tanner gives you a breakdown of our FM Suspension packages and what suspension we recommend for your Miata activities.
What are "Stage" kits? 0:58
Sway Bars 2:22
Koni STR.T 4:09
Adjustable Coilovers vs Shocks/Springs 5:01
Koni Sport with FM Springs 6:45
V-Maxx Adjustable Coilovers 7:49
Fox Racing Adjsutable Coilovers 8:32
Summary 25:45
Viewer Q&A -
Best for Rail-Road Tracks? (Importance of Suspension Travel) 10:32
Ride Height with Koni Sports (How FM measures ride height) 14:30
NA/NB Limited Suspension Travel/Spring Rates 15:44
Effects of Secondary Spring Rates 17:25
How and When to Use Adjustment Knobs 19:35
Advantages of FM Testing 22:38
Is an Alignment Needed? 24:05
FM Bumpstops 24:57
Original Live video recorded 3-31-22. Join us every Thursday on FB for new live content, and be sure to subscribe to our UA-cam channel to see all our Miata videos!
Flyin' Miata is the world leader in Miata performance. We offer a wide range of parts for all years of the Mazda MX-5 Miata.
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I could listen to Keith Tanner talk aboot anything, forever. Thank you for sharing your knowledge sir!
It sure seems like forever sometimes :D
Canadian eh? 🇨🇦
99 MIATA EVERYDAY DRIVER REPLACEMENT COILOVER RECOMENDATION ???@@FlyinMiataVideo
I love that comment about setting damping by starting fully soft and tightening until it comes into focus. Such a simple mental visualisation.
These videos really are an excellent sales tool. I've changed major purchase decisions after listening to Keith explain the difference between FM's options.
Thanks, we're glad they have been helpful!
I have the stage 2 Koni kit on my nb2. I Love it….massive improvement over stock an actually rides better than stock.
Thanks for the info, Keith.
Thanks for the info. My 91 is in dire need of new shocks all corners. Will be ordering the Koni with FM springs soon
great info. I personally run the konis with FM springs. rides excellent besides one odd bump on my daily commute which if going to quick my butt literally gets lifted off my seat. but other than that, they are great in all situations. At first I kind of wished they were lower, but after having the liberty of driving anywhere I want on any road type conditions and at any speed, the freedom of not worrying about scraping or bottoming out is something I appreciate dearly
Started with sway bars on my NC1, and that was a big improvement in roll. Later on put Eibach lowering springs on it (with the standard Bilsteins) and had a good alignment and tires. It's good enough for me: very slight understeer that's easily adjusted to neutral by adding a little power and still very comfortable. Wouldn't exchange the comfort left for handling.
I have the stage 2 koni package for my 2010 NC2 and it works great for spirited road driving. Some complain about the stance and on the nc2 and nc3 but it’s fine by me. I may upgrade to the Fox coilovers one day.
Thank y'all for your always informative and interesting videos. I've been cleaning up a neglected NA8 for track use (my first project too) and I really enjoy having a good understanding of how parts work and what they're intended to do to help make sure I'm shopping for quality replacements, even if I can't always afford y'alls stuff.
I've got both rear struts blown and your stage 2 suspension kit is next on my to do list after I get a couple more paychecks in. I originally wanted a track only car but I like the dang thing so much I want to be able to take it on road trips with my wife and drive it to work occasionally too. Yeah my GTI may be much faster but it's not got the same personality the Miata has.
If y'all are ever doing it I would (and I'm sure there's others too) love a video detailing how to replace most if not all of the bushings in the suspension with stock or any non poly bushings. There's tons of content on poly swaps but replacing stock and installing them at resting ride height seems to be a little tricky and not many people seem to want to make videos on the topic.
Good suggestion, thanks. The actual swapping of bushings is tedious, and you're right about torquing them up afterwards. This is especially important for NC and ND cars but even the earlier ones benefit from doing it properly.
Restoring my first car, 91 white miata. Sat for 10 years along with my mechanic career.. my new "Final Exam" 🤣🤟
I bought an nb2 with a rollcage and koni orange already installed. Its worth mentioning im riding on the racinghart mazdaspeed 17 inch rims which i kinda hate, but my car rides really nice considering i get a lot of feedback from the giant rims. Likely going to purchase the FM rims you make, just unsure if im going to have to adjust my suspension at all.
Looking forward to the night/day difference of either a stage 2 Koni or Fox setup for my NB1, plus bushings and end links! All the original equipment is worn, and the front sway bar isn’t even connected on one side.
Miatas respond very well to suspension refresh, and upgraded parts just make it even better! We think you'd be very happy with either of those choices, especially if you are replacing worn out parts!
Just picked up our stage 2 with fox coilovers. Thanks FM!
Nice! Let us know what you think. Hint, hint...product review.
is there a timeline for the fox coilovers to be available for the na? Y'alls website list them as out of stock with no eta
I've been throughly impressed by Xida coilovers, your thoughts?
hello flyin miata! I was wondering what suspension you would recommend for me, I daily drive my miata and on the weekends sometimes I go on a curvy road rides(nothing crazy tho). I currently have some tein coilovers that came with the car and it has adjustable ride height but the ride is really rough, so my dilemma is I want a suspension that is pretty comfortable with adjustable ride height and that can handle my weekend drives. budget is not an issue btw. Thank you in advance! (P.S im not very knowledgeable with cars, using my NA miata to help me learn!)
what about eibach pro kit (-25mm) springs on stock shocks? NB 2000 1.6
also which swaybars do you recommend?
Will the flying miata springs on koni yellows hit the wheel/tire. 15x7 kogeki wheel
nice vid! my 3 cents to this:
1. dual spring rates: the FM spring on the yellow KONI is what I understand under a dual spring rate. it consists basically of 2 linear wound springs with different spring rates, just made out of one piece of a wire. I do not think the part with the low windings fully compresses as soon as the car stands on its wheels. it actually can act as a spring for the small bumps. after a small amount of travel it really binds and acts just like a spacer and the spring work of the other part of the travel is done by the other part of the coil.
2. the secondary spring on the vmax coilover is hard to tell from the video, but seems to fall somewhere in between.
3. the secondary spring on the fox coilover is a true helper spring. it acts just like a support, when the car or wheel is unweighted. it binds (fully compresses), as soon as the car stands on its wheels.
the fox coilover do not seem like height adjustable. yes, you can adjust the preload and corner weight the car by turning the collar. but different heights can be achieved by shorter spring and limiting the travel of the piston on this particular sample. you would need to be able to adjust the lower mount against the damper body to achieve different ride height by maintaining full travel.
The close coils on the FM springs do indeed fully compress at rest. They are in bind almost all the time and do not meaningfully act as a spring.
The V-Maxx ones are the same.
The ride height of the Fox (and the V-Maxx) are height adjustable by adjusting the position of the perch. We have done a separate video on the fallacy of "adjustable preload" and what this means for travel. Suffice it to say that you maintain the full amount of available compression travel regardless of the perch position, as the shock is correctly dimensioned from the start to take full advantage of the range of motion available in the suspension.
@@FlyinMiataVideo ok thanks, will definitely look up the suggested video!
anyone know what size the top shock locknut is on the VMaxx kit?? mine was missing one, and I'd like to get this car together asap
Hi Keith and co. I have a 2020 ND RF - stock Miata shocks and springs - but did replace the sways, frame mounts, and added your billet clamps…. Yes 👍🏻 wow it did a world of difference to my handling. I’ll never race it’s just fun to play a little on some curvy roads - If I added Konis and fm springs what could I expect for increase in handling and ride. Seems sometimes at higher speeds on the expressway it feels a little floaty…. Would Koni’s / springs ground the car a little? What’s the best set up for a simpleton like me that just wants to his little red car to be smoothly glued to the ground :).
Floaty could very well be addressed with springs and shocks. The stock suspension is pretty darn good on the ND2s but of course it's built for the compromises chosen by Mazda. Not only would the shocks let you choose a damping level you like, the lower ride height will mean less aerodynamic lift at speed and thus more stability.
I'd also recommend a good alignment, factory specs have fairly wide tolerances and that can make a nice difference to the steering in particular. We have some recommended specs on our website.
I would totally be interested in either a Fox setup or the Vmaxx for my 98% street driven NB... If any were ever in stock...
We’re working as hard as we can to solve the stock situation. Best thing to do is sign up for the “back in stock” email so you know when the parts arrive, because they tend to go fast.
I'm considering buying your FOX suspension as I know you do your homework on what works best for MX-5s, though I'm concerned that in the UK there isn't any service support and shipping makes them roughly price equivalent to Ohlins. Have you compared these to your setup? What would work best for a backroad blaster NA with the rare trackday (maybe 1-2 times a year)?
There are Fox Racing service shops in the UK.If you contact us directly, we might be able to get you one that's close to you. Knowing the condition of UK B roads, I can see that setup working well. Second choice would be the Konis with FM springs, as they have good compliance for the road work. They won't be quite as sharp as the Fox on track but there's no question about their service and support. Note that we use a special high-zinc powdercoat in our FM springs specifically due to the climate in the UK.
We have concerns about the available travel in Ohlins. We have tested them in the past and while they have a very nice street ride on small movements at slower speeds, we were not satisfied with their behavior at higher speeds and on bigger suspension movements.
Continental extreme contact sports on 15X8 wheels dropped my ride height and inch. The konis sports dropped it another half an inch about. It ended up being such a perfect ride height. Koni's keeping it simple.
I've always wondered why FM doesn't deal with bilstiens.
Glad you like the Konis! We think it's a great setup for most people. We don't deal with Bilsteins because we think there are better tuned suspensions available.
@@FlyinMiataVideo awesome. I've also heard that bilstiens ride pretty hard/rough compared to the suspensions offered by FM.
What are the wheel specs / brands on that ND!!! Wow... Any rolling needed?
The White ND in the background? 17x9 wheels with 245/40 tires. VERY rolled and stretched fenders, with massaged plastics.
I am considering getting thestage 2.5 Koni kit for my 1990 Miata but eventually I want to swap a 1.8 L engine into it. Will it just be a waste if I get the sway bars for the NA6 now as I will have to change that to the 1.8? The problem mI face is that I want the handling now as I don’t know how long it will be till I put the 1.8 engine in it. Also what 1.8 engine would you recommend?
The sway bars are determined by the mounts on the chassis, so you would still use the 1.6 front sway.
For an ND1 or an ND2, what would give you the most comfortable ride for a daily driver or commuter car? May do some spirited driving every now and then, but mostly will use it as a daily driver. Thanks!
Thats what our Koni Stage 1 and Stage 2 suspensions are really good at.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thanks for the info! I appreciate it.
I'm in Vegas. Would you guys preform an instalation and alignment if I drove up to Colorado. Seems like a fun road trip and suspension upgrade all in one 😊
Interested in the Koni + FM spring setup for my 2003 NB.
Sorry, we're not set up to work on customer cars. You're welcome to come visit, of course! We can ship your suspension home for you for free.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Sounds good to me👍 Shame. Just don't know of a recommended shop here in town 😊
On the topic of sway bars:
I love the relative neutrality of the stock NB; Would an upgraded FM front and back set keep it, but with less roll, or will I gain some unwanted understeer from a beefier front sway? Although rear is beefed up as well so... 🤔
Thanks.
@@noamtasini3888 If you want a little stiffer without going full stiff, find a set of Mazdaspeed red sway bars as found on the 2004 Mazdaspeed Miatas. I found it was a great upgrade on my 2002 Miata over the stock bars without going extremely stiff from aftermarket bars.
@@tbm275 Thanks for the heads up 😊
I have the stage 2 Koni set up on my 02 NB. I love it…handles awesome and rides better than stock.
I have to replace the shocks on a NA with 112 miles on it. I wanna improve cornering and handling without lowering the car. Are Koni str.t or kayaba agx paired with the OEM spring and FM sway bar a good option? Or Is it better to install a FM sway bar paired with lowered and stiffer suspension? Thanks
Moving to an upgraded sway bar is by far the best bang for the buck you'll get on your suspensions system. If you don't want to lower the car, the Koni STR.T shocks are a direct replacement for the factory shocks. You might try the sway bar before going with new shocks and if it doesn't get you where you want to be, you might have to figure out what you prefer more, a flatter cornering car or stock ride height. If you want it to be flatter, I'd suggest the Koni Sports with FM springs.
Hi, i have koni yellow with stock springs on My nbfl but when i set iT on the softest setting with Michelin pilot sport 3 tire 16 inch wheel the car feels normal but when i do my nankang ns2r semi slick tire 15inch wheel the car feels like iT wont turn sharp/ directly its like when the tire pressure is very low. But when i turn iT 50% stiffer (1 full turn on the knob) then the car feels complete different. Its not the same feeling that you discribe There how iT should feel. I can’t explain the feeling. Some days it feels like the rebound is to low, Some days iT feels normal. What do you recommend about the rebound setup ?
This is why it's important to test for yourself. You're increasing grip levels fairly dramatically but with a soft stock spring, so you can drive the tire a little harder by increasing the rebound. Since you've had the chance to experiment, you know what works better for your setup. Match your shock settings to your tires in this case.
Can i put the koni yellow shocks and use them with my 2022 nd sport miata?
Yes.
what is your preferred spring rate as to were you are the test driver if im not mistaken ... side not im trying to be stable as possible n low as possible if it makes a difference?
The ideal spring rate depends on how you're using the car and your ride height. The default rates on our suspensions are chosen to give the best results for their intended use and recommended ride height - and for the chassis in question. They're not necessarily ideal for all situations, a dedicated track car running on hot sticky track tires needs more spring than a daily driver. A slammed car needs to run a very high spring rate as there's very little travel left, and you may find that there's just no way to make that ride comfortably.
After watching this i am considering the fox suspension set up for my na miata (1992). I would like to have a nice comfortable ride but still be able to stick to a corner or slide through a corner when no one is looking lol. I would also like to get some koni 15” wheels to complete the set up. And i think i will need the adjustable ride height from the fox suspension to help fit the wheels. Does this sound like a set up that will provide me my desired out come? (Comfy and sporty, best of both worlds kind of thing) what sway bar would match the rest of the suspension? I doubt i will ever take it to a track, but spirited driving is a weekly thing.
Wheel fitment isn't really affected by ride height - if the tire can rub, it will rub. However, it might rub less often with a tall ride height. There should be no reason to go with a certain suspension to make a certain set of wheels work - unless you're going with a wide wheel and a high offset, in which case you may need the smaller diameter Fox or V-Maxx springs to clear the inside edge of the wheel. A 15x9 with a +35 falls into that category.
The FM sway bars are matched well to our suspension setups and alignment recommendations, that's why we package them together.
(In my original comment i stated “koni” wheels however i meant “kogeki”)
So do you think the 15x8 kogeki wheels will have a clearance issue with the springs on the fox coilovers?
No problem with clearance on any spring with the 15x8, and the 15x9 will be fine with the Fox coilovers or any other coilover that uses a 2.5” spring.
Hello - For my ND2 sitting at 14.6-14.7 hub to fender all around, how much will the Stage 1 Koni lower it by (on your recommended perches)? With the variance in stock heights from car to car, I have to think it's not a blanket 13" mentioned on the FM website? Thank you!
We measure from the center of the hub to the fender, because it's much more consistent from car to car, and eliminates some of the variables that come from tire size, etc. Our measurements may not be exact, but they are the most accurate way we've found to communicate ride height.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thank you!
What about sway bars on the nd. You have so many to choose from. How would some one pick the right one? .
We only sell one set of sway bars for the ND because they are the settings we like and the ones we recommend. Feel free to reach out to our support team directly if you have specific questions. Thanks!
flyinmiata.com/products/nd-flyin-miata-sway-bars?_pos=4&_psq=sway&_ss=e&_v=1.0
I would suggest looking at carrying MeisterR zetaCRD. I run them on an NA. It's a quality coilover system with a relatively softer spring rate and extremely adjustable shocks. Perfect for people who want a stiffer ride for spirited driving and canyon carving but want the option for occasional track use.
We are aware of the MeisterR line. They have some fundamental design decisions that don’t align with our requirements. We feel it’s possible to do better so we would rather design our own.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thanks for the response. I'm not a coilover expert by any means but can you let us know what those design issues are?
My 2015 MX-5 seems to bottom out over bumps I don’t think it should. What could be the problem?
If you're on stock suspension, your shocks may be worn out.
When should you rebuild fox shocks? Any recomendated mileage? Say for street use, moderate northeast street conditions.
They’re built like OE shocks and not like race shocks with superior seals and the like. We’d base it on behavior instead of mileage, as it’s really hard to put a number on that.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thank you. These educational videos are great. Makes me want to buy goodies lol.
what about ND Porpoising on highway. Well the Koni's alleviate it?
The Koni's should help, but a properly adjusted alignment might make more of a difference. Please reach out to our customer support team directly if you have time, they'll be happy to offer some suggestions and help track down the source of the issue.
In which way do the characteristics of Eibach springs not match up with your design goals? Too hard, too soft, other specific reasons?
Not stiff enough for the ride height. Note that we do use Eibach springs on some of our coilover setups, but those are the standardized race springs.
I have now seen this video about 10 times over the last few months. I have a mostly stock ND2. That may explain why?
Same! I’m not too mechanically inclined and find these videos very helpful in trying to plan out suspension upgrades. I have a base 2016 with about 25k and would love to reduce the roll.
Curious Ohlins vs Fox coil over kits. Any thoughts? Thx
The single piece construction of the Fox allows for maximum travel, which we consider to be of critical performance on the Miata chassis. It allows for more composure over large movements, from big crests taken at speed to attacking kerbs on track.
@@FlyinMiataVideo thank you.
What are your thoughts on feals?
We generally don't comment on products offered by other vendors, as we know they tend to get things wrong when talking about ours.
im stuck between stage 2.5 and fox for my na... would the fox shocks spring rates turn my noodle of a 178k mile car into a pretzel?
Every suspension works better with a stiff platform, it's true. The car will work okay without any modifications but a set of frame rails at least would help with the Fox spring rates. It's not a go/no go sort of decision but if you're going to spend the money on the higher performance suspension you'll probably appreciate the extra rigidity.
@@FlyinMiataVideo so if it came down to butterfly brace 2.0 and stage 2.5 vs fox stage 2… similar money from what I’m seeing on the site right now
@@RoadconePhoto That's going to come down to how you're using the car and what future plans you have for it. I'd recommend you call us, it sounds like this would be best handled as a conversation.
@@FlyinMiataVideo likely never going to see the track but I’m a big fan of western nc mountains. Imagine decker canyon in Malibu but with more elevation, way junkier surface and none of the stupid 30mph wind from the side lol
what's issue with Eibach spring
We would prefer more spring rate or a higher ride height.
It's so sad how tempted is to buy your parts but when I shop it said unavailable we should look somewhere else.
Which kit are you interested in?
Why does the burgundy NB have a plastic window soft top
That's not cool >:(
Because it’s a 1995 M with the stock top :)
everyone: when are you gonna lower it more?
me: mf the tub in the rear already had enough smooching the driveway and the 5mph bumps