Crazy how I had this opinion YEARS ago and literally no one agreed. Now after years and years of an addon vs blizzard arms race, I have been vindicated.
The biggest damage done to WoW was how they made expansions. WoW needs a total restructuring to become way more horizontal. It need to become something closer to Guild Wars 2.
@@TheRexTera Expo's were great until Cata hit. As soon as they started re-shaping the world and overhauling the talent system to be a cookie-cutter based retarded shitshow. Then add all the extra buttons you have to press, all the extra bullshit on your screen and it's jsut overkill. Reverting back to a TBC/WOTLK era of the client would drastically improve the whole game.
@@andywest6062 My biggest issue is that they “removed” the World and replaced it with the expansions zones. I think that’s the main reason so many of us went back to Era because that’s where you’re actually paying the base game. Every expansion makes the previous expansions into glorified interactive museums.
Idk, I find retail wow to be an infinitely more compelling PvE experience at the higher end than anything in the past. Like peak warlock in BC was spamming shadow bolt
The thing that made me quit WoW was all of my friends left and I was by myself. I tried doing stuff with randos and everyone was a toxic douchebag. I got so stressed and anxious about messing up a mechanic in a random NORMAL dungeon because of how shitty people would act. Or the group would just speed run through everything to finish the dungeon. I don't find that fun.
So true. 80% of the groups just speedrun into dungeons. That's also due to the fact the the game is much faster now, which is a thing that I hate. I get that some people enjoy pressing 100 buttons in a second, well, make a class work like that, or a spec, not the whole game.
you quit cause you werent good enough ?, normal dungeon doesnt have mechanics and people rarely speak in dungeon finder or m+ unless you are really griefing
@@antoniobrynildsen8025 Good to see one of the people he was talking about pop up, you sir and your ilk are a main reason MMO's are trash now days compared to 10+ years ago.
Listening to Asmon explained Fear vs Horrify make me realize how much Blizzard devs actually try to cripple their game. It's like 2x3 vs 2+2+2, they both yield same result and essentially the same representation but Blizzard just make players go through both operation anyway.
For me as a casual PvE player that left in LK times..' i LOVED when i saw high end geared players with cool equipment. I made me think that i could go so far and do so much, and that there are so many things to see. That slowly died after LK for me. Eaxh xpac became predictable. It's one of the reasons I stayed with GW2 so long... It was the "awe factor" of the scope and the possibilities.
That's why i dont like transmog and mega-servers. I grew up playing WoW in TBC on a private server that had like ~800 people online during the day. It wasn't dying or anything, there were plenty of raids and dungeons going and the server felt active, but not crowded. You knew where the hardcore guys were, you knew most of the big guilds and players made a reputation and name for themselves. That's how an mmorpg should feel
To me classic sod feels like that tho right now. Altough more populated , the world feels alive and not fragmented. Bad news is they just recently made a change to layering we its back feeling like retail. I want to see people while im questing or traveling. I dont want an empty world where everything is instanced and sharded.@@Dangerous1939
Blizzard looks at gear like 'if you max out gear, you'll quit playing.' But back in Wrath when I would hit max gear on my Rogue (before the next raid lockout), I started gearing up a Warrior instead. I even ended up tanking Heroic ICC on my alt when my main never made it out of 25 Normal guild runs. Just let us be caught up. It's impossible to even decide on a class because you can't ever stop grinding to switch it up.
I am not a no lifer. In PvE without a guild, and only a few friends, we gear alts in about a week that are capable of doing +22s, which can get you 3k io. I'm pretty casual nowadays and I have 4 geared characters at 486-488 ilvl. Don't believe everything the bald one says. He's been playing a long time, but when is the last time you saw him play retail and not be dead last on the damage meter?
@thegrim_1 PvPers don't want to geae up with PvE. They want to gear up with PvP. As it stands, you can't reasonably gear up through pvp unless you start at the beginning of a season with already decent gear. Ques take too long and rewards are too few.
Great video. The sad truth is the grind to keep up with a PvP season is killer. As a casual who enjoyed Rated BG's, you have to play every day for hours to get your rating up passed 1600. You wait for a group to form for an hour, get in a match, win, and your rating goes up 3 or goes down. That's not really how some people want to spend their time.
Just out a little time into joining a guild 😂 you’ll have people to play with all the time. You guys keep pushing this solo experience thinking it’s the whole game lmao.
@@Gamecontrol. dude join a non HC guild 😂 if you’re on stormrage or area 52 you can absolutely join our guild. I promise a majority of guilds are not that serious but you do have to find one you fit into.
@@knallow_"join a Guild" bro, retail WOW's entire design ethos prevents that. The game is designed around making sure all content occurs at max level and that every single piece of content is accessible through a teleport or an automatic lobby. There is no interaction with anyone except bots selling gold. This and the fact that PvP/late game raids require such a high level of investment and knowledge of the game means you will be refused entry by any guild with active players. The game is broken in design; it pushed new players through content to the point they see basically nothing before reaching the level cap, and then forces them to try and get into the good graces of people with neither the time nor patience to basically build the noob up to a decent level. There's a reason new players don't even attempt to start, then leave after a day. There's a reason old players are leaving in droves. There's a reason the only people left playing WOW retail are those with infinite time in the world... and yet hate the game.
I find it very interesting when talking about the hyper-specificity of differences in the mechanics of Hex and Polymorph because it reminds me the extremely specific interactions in things from way back in WC3 DotA. The main difference being those were engine limitations that were later specifically implemented into Dota 2, and then mostly removed because they were pointless.
They're not pointless. It adds to the class/spec fantasy, it's an RPG not a hyper competitive PvP game. Having a lot of the spells and abilities being exactly the same between classes and specs is *bad* for an RPG. I can agree that there are too many random debuffs and shit but homogonizing core class/spec abilities like Hex and Polymorph would just water down the RPG aspect of the mmoRPG. I don't think that's good in any way whatsoever for WoW. But doing something like homogonizing DR among different types of hard CC like Asmon suggested _would_ make sense and doesn't sacrifice the RPG aspect of the game. DotA isn't an mmorpg, it's a hyper competitive PvP game, you really can't compare them 1 to 1.
Hex and polymorph are completely fine. Rotations and damage modifiers are too much for me. Too many abilities. I'm sure if you played retail all along it would be okay, but hopping in new it's a bit much.
@@handsomebear. hate to break it to you but every form of damage and heal is actually just the same thing. Health bar go down, health bar go up. You can just flavor them with names and animations. Why should CC be any different? If two debuffs do effectively the same thing they should show up the same. "Hex" and "Polymorph" can be spell names but if the effect is the same why is the effect different.
Blizz did an ability squish / cull ages ago, I forget what expansion it was. And what resulted was various classes feeling identical with zero class fantasy. Now it's back to the same debate of "there's too many abilities". Imo the bloat in retail wow is just the number of useless / redundant systems from previous expansions that haven't been depreciated. I.e. garrisons from WOD. No one wanted it then, and no one wants it now. They were originally brought in for 'player housing', and it ended up doing nothing. Or azerite gear from BFA.
I think talking about complexity, WotLK and Cata were probably the best. Classes were getting fleshed out and diversified, but it was also just basic rotations with a little bit of fluff here and there. Things were distinct and impactful, but not plentiful. In MoP the ability bloat really started to happen if memory serves, and after that we really never got back to basics because borrowed power ruined any chance to have a comprehensible class. At this point Asmon's point is getting a bit stale since he's been saying it on repeat for awhile now, but it really do be true. I really dislike a lot of classes in wow right now because it feels like you have a rotation that's like 6 to 7 buttons, then you also have 30, 45, and 60 second CD's you need to weave in as a sort of sub rotation during your regular rotation, and then you have burst CD's and trinkets you also need to line up which may or may not change your priority list/rotation again. I feel like as every class I just want to press more buttons than is feasible. You need like 4 or 5 GCD's of setup for your burst on almost every class now. And so many classes have a bunch of low CD meaningless buttons that just do damage an have barely any interaction with your class. Like wtf is Secret Techniques? Literally just slightly stronger Eviscerate. wtf is symbols of death? most people just macro it into shadow dance. why are Death chakram, steel trap, and barrage a thing? They're literally just "press on CD for dmg" abilities. At least explosive shot is satisfying to press. Why is it possible for a warrior to have Dragon's roar, Spear of Bastion, and Ravager all at the same time? They're literally the exact same button: do AoE damage and generate rage, with a different flavour of buff to go with it. Why do Unholy DK's have like 3 or 4 CD's that literally just offer basic functionality like multi dotting or enabling cleave? It should literally just be as simple as "apply festering, cast D&D, spam scourge strike", why is Vile Contagion a 1.5min CD that's also on the GCD? As if Unholy DK's didn't have enough fucking buttons to press already...
Completely agree - once you add in too many abilities and rotations, you ruin the pacing and timing of each class. Eventually each class blends to the point where it no longer feels distinct and you end up with a button smashing fest. The key to the game lay in when to use an ability, rather than the volume of abilities - less was more.
@@forrestmcgee7631 It's boring on a target dummy, but I think it becomes much better when there is more emphasis on the world and boss encounters. I've never seen wow Classic as boring for example, because there's almost more to think about when it comes to playing around your mana and trying to make the most of it when you have vastly less tools.
for me, the best version of hunter is in wotlk. Its perfect, easy to learn and start in the game but hard to master. In cata become too op. Ppl that dont play hunter in wotlk dont know how fun and epic was. Today hunters is super boring and beginner friendly class, i stop maining it. Specialy because blizzard remove abilities and talent tree for pets. Was soo cool and fun, it give your pet a much more prominence. Imagine that your class become so fun, and blizzard make it boring every expantion... wtf Its fine nerfing a class, but making less fun just kill the game
True, I'm a rogue main and I quit the class cause of button bloat, I'm playing ret paladin now, after the rework they removed a lot of buttons and the class feels really smoothier, a breath of fresh air honestly, I was about to quit wow, mages got a lot better after rework too, hope they do the same for every class, sadly the holy paladin still have 100 buttons to press and thats why I'm not playing as a healer.
That's exactly why I don't like to play wow anymore. Way to many buttons and stressful rotations. When I pick my talents I hope that there are many passive ability's so I don't have to much buttons to worry about. But the game punishes you for that because if u want the 'meta' talents you have to add 7-10 ability's to your rotation. And I play since Woltk, I can't even imagine how new players feel about that.
take cata for an example, u guys remember how many pvp players went into pve to get the best gear for pvp? the trinkets for casters, some off pieces that gave insane dmg boost. I feel its fine that pve players COULD do pvp to get better in pve. uno reverse card, and i feel thats ok
37:30 The Ma'nari Eredar were the scientists, mages etc on Argus. As a Demonology warlock, your artifact is upset, pissed off, at how Kil Jaeden, Archimond, and Sargeras played, pitched, and used him and the other ma'nari and at the end, hopeful that his family that keep his monicker might see the potential in joining the mortals on Azeroth as he has with your warlock and orderhall.
After quitting for a while and coming back because my friends were playing pvp, I used to be gladiator but now i have to look up every single class and what they do and how to counter them AND learn my entire class over again, Along with every new system and currency and crafting plus everything in between. All that just to be decent at low mmr arenas. This is why there is no new players and a very very small pvp community. I log into SOD and its thriving, i log into retail and the only thing i see is a million things i have to google and a million people selling some sort of boost
I am a relatively new player to WoW. I just started about two months ago and I have thoroughly enjoyed the dragon flight expansion. I will say that I have had 2 friends that have been playing WoW for 10+ years each helping me with my first time. I only have one major gripe with PvP and it’s that I shouldn’t need to know every single thing I need to dispel, stun, etc. before I play it and that’s what it feels like right now. I started with a Ret Paladin for my first character and was creating another one and went with mage. All I’ve heard from my friends now is how demanding it is to know every in and out of the kit plus bosses. I understand it’s an MMO and I’m not opposed to learning it but I do think for a more casual player, they would struggle due to the extremely steep learning curve. I’ll say again having my two friends guide me was an enormous help and I think I would have shied away had it not been for them.
I know I'm probably gonna catch some shit for this take, and I think WoW definitely needs a reset, but it needs to be split into two separate games. I noticed during this entire video that Venruki didn't once mention the PVE/Open World side of WoW, which is arguably what started its reign as top MMO back in vanilla. He wants people to come back to WoW so the PVP queues improve but the PVE/Open World which is most likely what will attract new players is a dumpster fire right now. Split the game into two and you'll get the crowds back. Reset the PVE side of WoW, and create a new PVP-only game set in the Warcraft universe. Focus on creating an amazing system for BGs and Arenas and other forms of player vs player combat. Most of the people who love PVP don't care about the PVE side of it. They see it as a hassle, a burden that only delays them getting to the part they love. While on the other side of the coin the PVE players want their world back, simpler times with that vanilla RPG feel. Hulking beasts with swords, shields and battle axes, and slinky assassins with chain mail bikinis. WoW needs a massive schism to save it.
I came back to the game about six months into Shadowlands, after leaving at the end of WotLK. It was a lot of fun for a minute: I went back to my old guild, leveled up some characters, went on a raid. But the overly complex (and frankly bizarre) systems of Shadowlands and my disinterest in Mythic+ or ranked PvP really wore me down. The final straw was spending weeks - WEEKS - reading up on add-ons, getting new add-ons, configuring them all, and setting up the GUI for each is what drove me away. I love raiding, and I always will (I was a big EQ fan before WoW came out), but the sheer density of work needed outside the game was too much.
@@enmasarutobi4980 yeah that's prolly 50 mins too much if fucking addons have to be in the game they could atleast go and integrate them into the client so you don't have to update all that shit etc... imagine if dbm for example would download and update with urgent client, maybe had in game 30 secs tutorial videos as an option for new players? Think about how much crappy nonsense new people have to go through
As far as the whole ability pruning thing goes, I think the biggest problem that we have is that there's just too many available abilities for every class and spec. I love having lots of different abilities available to my character's, but I wish that they would replace more of my current abilities. So let's say I'm going down a talent tree and I have an option to pick between ability A or bility B. well regardless of which one I pick it's going to replace an ability that I already have. So I don't have a new button to push, it's just a different button that does something different. allowing me to customize my character more
Rotation for warlocks is so obscene I ended up quitting the class and it's great fun. People play destro because destro is OP + it has like a 4 button rotation vs the 13 button general rotation of affliction which does virtually no damage. When they nerf things they either nerf it in such a way it doesn't matter or they make the spec unplayable for years.
People are quick to forget. W.o.D brought in the "great prune" and players lost their minds saying blizz was simplying the game too much. Now we've come full circle and people complain the game is too complex. Player base doesnt have a clue what they want as is the case with most games
Expanding on this, Blizzard removed the class individuality. You used to know "okay a rogue is going to do xyz, so I need to do ABC". Now that all classes can do everything its impossible to predict what other classes are going to do.
I love watching these videos it validates literally every thought in my head. I think the issue is that we’ll never get our beloved game back no matter how hard anyone tries. It’s run by the most toxic company on the planet I doubt the game designers even care about it that much at this point
They've burnt through nearly every beloved character and villain in the franchise and replaced them with Toddy fucking Whiskers. This company will never make WoW what it needs to be ever again.
at this point there just milking the existing player base for as long as they keep paying, low effort and easy money, as soon as that status quote changes, they will just sell it off or start a clone that does the same thing, with probably a lot less development.
I'd be surprised if many (or any) of the people that designed OG or TBC are even still at Actilizzard. Strikes me as a product where the visionaries responsible moved on and the product is handed off to a different team with a goal more in line with the suits and bean counters vision than the original designers vision.
8-12 spells is the sweet spot. Design really interesting spells (charge up spells, spells that interact with eachother, spells that change 3x for a combo ability like riven in lol.) and call it a day.
Solo queue is so long because there's no healers. What if they just made it so if there wasn't 2 healers there just isn't one, and to stop from people just exploding in 1 second, there's a damage reduction in those matches. So 3 DPS vs 3 DPS, with a full 30-40% damage reduction across the board.
@@edwardhatfield5360 The problem Without the damage reduction some one will get targeted and be dead in .5 seconds with no healer. maybe 30-40% is too much I'm not sure. But I came back to wow for PVP and left because the queues ruined it.
This makes classes that don't have a lot of sustain or effective damage negation unable to consistently win games. Spells like bubble or iceblock would be bis in these matches. In every lobby you would hardfocus the DPS with the least or weakest damage negation and basically win instantly. Solo shuffle teams are coordinated enough to focus one target, but generally not coordinated enough to effectively keep their weakest link from dying. I think Rogues, Mages and Paladins would be kind of broken in this mode. Warriors and Warlocks would probably stink.
I miss the "mid-fantasy" feel of the old game. I realized that when I returned to classic. The fact that the craziest mount in a horse with flames, no flying, no rainbow horses dazzling the sky and spewing shit, no chauferred motorcycles, none of the technicolor neon shit they put in the game over the past 10+ years to outdo the previous expansion in an "out-garish" arms race. Highest level cloth gear is some well tailored purple robes. Best weapon is a big thundering sword kinda feel.
Can 100% attest dragonflight is overwhelming to get in to. Walked into the capital city hub looking for a portal to Orgrimmar. Immediately had 10+ quests in sight, 3 people talking to me on my screen in a dialogue box talking about systems to stop the spreading corruption, weekly objectives, and the portals arent even there until I do a quest but I dont know which one is the right quest. So instead I go kill anub on classic and watch hc death comps
This. The new player experience is nuts. Some would like to learn the story from vanilla to current expansion - this is currently not happening well enough with Chromie Time, nor is it the default. Anyone not caring about the story at all could just leave Chromie Time and fast-track to latest expansion, but there needs to be something easing players into all the systems upon systems instead of bombarding them in capital city with quests in random order from multiple expansions. This is the first gate new players must pass through. Give them the key.
LOL i had the same experience the other day. I re-subbed for Hardcore last week, and out of curiosity i logged on the DF for the first time since January. I saw all the minimap bloat, Campaign quests popups and dialogues, and got lost in a second.. You can imagine, I immediately Alt-F4'd and got back into Classic HC xD
Playing classic HC, the guild is alive, people in the world working together, making friends and combining resources; even professions are mega impactful. I logged into retail first time in a week, and felt like I dropped a tab of LSD. Shit going on everywhere but nothing happening and no sense of achievement. Spend the latest tender to increase my xmog and then I realised how empty it was as I was running around aimlessly.
I was just talking about this with a friend in wow last night. About why we are playing classic and not retail. The game is just bloated with content and not enough people playing it. It's no longer about building friendships and sharing experiences with others, it's about how much in game shit you have.
Tried retail after leaving in Legion. I have to say the World looks nice and there is a lot of dubbed quests, but everything still feels blunt and the World is dead. I switched backed to classic/hardcore after hitting lvl 15 on retail and i dont think i will come back again
@darkmatterpancake9824 having content to do is great, it is awesome how much stuff you have to collect, but the fact the game does not foster relationships with other players with which you can share the stuff with is where the issue lies
I wholeheartedly agree with the "too many buttons" thing. Additionally, I hate how everyone is basically a 3 minute mage now. I don't want to hit 5 cooldowns to suddenly do 4x the damage or whatever. What I want to have is frostbolt if I want to slow enemies, fireball for max dmg, etc. I quit the game after cata, came back in late shadowlands. When I looked at the abilities of classes I just went "what the hell is this?" and legitimately everything felt worse compared to back then.
I started WoW in classic. I got rank 11 for the mount on my rogue. The shoulders + helmet were also bis / very good for a brief period in pve. TBC was my first time in arenas, pvp gear often had weapons as good as the bis pve weapons for that season/raid phase. I got 2K on my rdruid for a good heal mace and 2k on my warrior because the 2h mace was bis in pvp. I quit in wrath, the pvp wasn't fun and didn't feel rewarding. I tried retail a few times, including dragonflight. Never delved into pvp at all, didn't touch an arena. It seemed like too much work to get involved.
Wow feels like a second Job. Everyone that I talk to that plays retail only talk about endgame, dailies, farming for ilvl, and submitting resumes to different guilds to raid.
Probably one of the most interesting parts of playing BG3 is seeing the mechanics of D&D integrated into another videogame and being able to connect the dots on how blizz originally tried to make WoW based on D&D. It's also enlightening to see how the modern retail wow experience has deviated and become severely bloated compared to where it started. If the character mechanics were isolated into a single player game, the complexities of the talent trees would be fine. But in the larger ecosystem of the WoW MMO, it is a bit much. At this point in time, WoW has systemic issues of being over complicated and overdesigned for the sake of appearing to have more depth than it needs, and more complexity than the average player can reasonably manage throughout standard gameplay.
this is absolutely true. i played: vanilla, BC,wrath,cata long break, then tried pandaria at the end, and i was totally effing lost. same damn thing happened in dragonflight, there is so much effing shit in the game that you end up just ignoring 90%, 5% is super effing complicated, and the last 5% is just nostalgia keeping you there. by the time i figured out dragonflight and got 90% of what i wanted, i was burnt out and done with it. so imagine a person that has NEVER played wow giving it a try, there is no effing way that person would have a good time for at least 5-6 months.
Just a tiny little correction - Blizz didn't want to base wow on DnD. World of Warcraft originally was an Everquest clone (devs literally said they wanted to make a 'better' EQ). Everquest itself might've been based on DnD tho, not sure bout that
@@ziggs123 sort of, but instead of being gated behind your individual involvement in regular pvp gameplay, now you’re gated behind a group win rating in “special” pvp gamemodes.
Man when Asmon talked about why there are no healers being a main healer off and on since The Burning Crusade that was so true that could shook me to my core. Crappy players who don't help at all and you get nuked by the other dps then they flame you...
26:18 No… there are no healers because in solo, if you win 4/6 you only gain 5 rating. The only way to actually gain rating is to go 5/6 or 6/6, which it turns out, can actually be pretty hard
And they also just punish you so much for losing. If you go 2/6 you will lose like 20-30 rating. So it is so easy to lose all of your gains if you have a couple of bad matches. It’s just not the right way to incentivize people to play as a healer
warrior does not need 3 buttons to change stances. anyone whose played the class has the stance switching macro on one button. intervene should be one bottom/an auto talent. two charges or one charge that auto changes to intervene when target friends. all classes(except demon hunter) have at least 5 buttons that can be merged/trimmed.
Victory rush and Bloodthirst are the EXACT same thing, it's just one is a free cast. Why is it not one button? You aren't even allowed to make a macro for it either that works properly, arbitrary limitations.
Lowkey every time I've tried getting into WoW I just got overwhelmed by all of the addons I had to install. All of the health bars and stuff I was expected to pay attention to. I just wanted to have fun hitting a big guy with a big stick.
Give classic a shot, either on official or something like turtlewow. I think the only add-ons I ever used were the atlas loot and maybe a tracker for gathering nodes. Default ui and none of the other bullshit and you'll be alright. The game makes a lot more "sense" in the old versions, imo anyway.
I don't understand this. you don't have to install anything and you don't have to pay attention to "all the health bars" just play dps and blast the group wdym stop getting peer pressured into something that isn't a requirement at all
@@kalle-malle Except it often is, once a party finds out you are not optimal, they can and will kick you, and it does happen a lot. Current playerbase is extremely intollerant when it comes to this.
@@Oumegi I pug all the time, high keys even, nobody ever talks about addons nobody ever flamed me in months of pugging. One time a guy flamed a healer for constantly going afk and he was replaced. You have to be provoking it somehow. I don't know where this "the community is toxic" shit is coming from. maybe you are toxic, overly defensive or whatever, I'd have to see those interactions and see what you did in that run but in my experience for EU this isn't true.
allow 3 dps to go in dont let either team have a healer it's just super quick games. Then at least you are waiting in queue for 30 seconds. Just make it tripple dps give and take less rating away.
I agree with almost everything: - Fewer buttons is something I've thought was needed for a long time. Melee classes in particular are bad. Some of them have 6 or 7 buttons just in basic rotation, before we even start talking about CDs, CC and other rarely used buttons (rarely relative to the actual rotation abilities of course). Should be a max of 4-5 buttons: People should be able to play to the level of "pretty good" without having to spend 4 hours in the keybind menu, which limits the available binding options to basically 1-4.. maybe include 5 for a 15- or 30-second ability that you hit "often" but not "always". - M+ is too easy for the rewards you get, relative to raiding and pvp. M+ should probably cap out at heroic tier rewards and leave pushing to 20+ for those who just enjoy the challenge. Allow raiding to go back to being "the big important thing" (and glad for the pvp for the side of things). Right now it feels like raiding is the thing that's only there for the challenge and M+ is the "real" end game. Even more so with the catalyst system allowing players to get their tier bonuses without ever setting foot in a raid. The one thing I don't (fully) agree with: - Going back to only two tiers of raids. I'm OK with main raiding only having normal and heroic (or whatever labels) but I don't think ditching LFR is a good idea. LFR design could certainly be improved - the meme that LFR is harder than heroic is not a thing that should ever exist. I'd say an easy option would be to just remove the brez cap in LFR. Let the baddies just keep getting rezzed and make wipes effectively impossible unless every single one of your brez-capable players is complete garbage. The gear you get from LFR is already pretty useless other than the tier pieces and the occasional OP trinket so removing the wipe-ten-times "mechanic" isn't going to cause significant stat inflation. (Of course this also requires removing any one-mistake-wipes-the-raid mechanics in LFR, but they already mostly do that so again not a significant difference.) Regarding the main raid difficulty though: If they did remove mythic, I wouldn't want to see normal get easier and heroic get harder - I'd want to see both getting harder. Right now normal is pretty much a one- or two-reset speedbump before jumping straight into heroic for all but the most absolutely casual guilds. I'd like to see a new normal be somewhere between current normal and current heroic, and likewise a new heroic to be somewhere between current heroic and current mythic. Normal right now is too easy and mythic is too hard. Heroic is in a pretty good spot (at least in my experience) so just split the difference on both sides. Another idea if they want to also cater to the absolutely most super casual guilds is to allow LFR to be entered as a guild group, making it effectively replace both the current LFR and the current normal. A raid you can pretty much just walk through with near-zero effort while you're shooting the shit with your buddies.
Some additional things they could do: - Make the dragonriding vigor less annoying. When your best gameplay mechanic is "sit and wait for 3 minutes", the design is wrong. Either make them charge faster while grounded, or give us 2-3x the vigor bubbles so we don't have to deal with it as often, or just remove the vigor system all together (outside of the races, obviously) and let us fly as long as we want. Put a short (maybe 3-5sec) cd on surge forward and skyward ascent if they really "need" to prevent players flying as fast as possible. - Allow hovering again. Its just super annoying that you can no longer just afk wherever you happen to be if you need to. Maybe make it a new ability that chews up all of your vigor bubbles or something to allow you to just sit there for as long as you need, and allow the bubbles to refill while you wait (so it invokes the 3minute problem above, but because its specifically for afking that hopefully won't matter as much - assuming they don't just get rid of vigor entirely and then it doesn't matter). - Allow dragonriding in the old worlds. With the recent dragonriding cups I wonder if they're working toward this and its a technical limitation but its definitely something they should do. - Fix the draenei and blood elf starting zones. Its been almost 13 years since cata. I know there's little stuff happening in those zones and the "roi" is limited but you can't even buy BC separately anymore. Its just embarrassing at this point (ideally bring those zones fully into Azeroth and get rid of that silly zone portal in EPL). OK that was all about flying. It really annoys me in its current state. The downtime of dragonriding is one of the bigger reasons I've mostly stopped playing. I've always spent most of my time in game doing world activities and while the 800% max flight speed is fun it doesn't make up for all the waiting around imposed by the vigor system. Some other things they can do: - Stop making single-target and aoe builds almost completely mutually exclusive. Nobody enjoys having to remember to swap talents every boss (or even every trash pack). Its just an unnecessary annoyance. I could accept a _small_ differentiation (maybe 1-2%) but at the moment for a lot of classes its not just a huge damage differential if you forget to swap to the "right" build but sometimes entire critical abilities are missing (eg: hunter's multishot is not available if you're building for single-target). - Add more world activities. Legion was great for that with the introduction of world quests that had actually useful rewards. They've been backpedaling on that every expansion since then though. Right now you only get new WQs every three days and once you've done those you may as well just log off. There's a handful of world "events" like dragonbane keep that aren't too bad but most of them are fairly short (10-15min) with long respawn times (2hr for dbk), most of which overlap with the other world events, so its really difficult to get in them. And they only give the "good" reward once a week (at least they have secondary rewards so its not completely useless if you happen to pass by it again at the right time). - Simplify professions. I understand why they made them more interesting (that was desperately needed) but they want way too far the other direction. Professions went from a mindless grind straight to an incomprehensible mess. There must be a middle ground in there somewhere. - More BoA stuff. Every expansion they announce that they're going to "make alts useful again" yet every expansion it seems like alts get more and more useless. Sure it might be more streamlined to get an alt to max level and get them a basic set of epic gear, but they're not really "useful". That's always been somewhat the case but way back in the day it was still worthwhile to make alts for the sake of professions. Blizz has been doing everything they can to remove that usefulness in the name of forcing people to interact with the rest of the player base (eg: crafting orders in the current expansion) but they never replaced that usefulness with anything else. The only reason to have an alt now is to fill alternate roles or provide extra lockouts in group content (that's something but only applies to a very small percentage of players). I don't know what all they could make BoA that wouldn't cause the sweaty types feel like they "have" to grind out a dozen alts, but I'm sure they could come up with something. - Get rid of mythic raid lockouts. Asmon touched on this but these lockouts are just annoying. There's certainly a good reason to maintain drop-level lockouts (eg: how normal and heroic work) but completely preventing people from joining a raid is just frustrating for everybody - the raiders themselves as well as any guilds looking to fill holes in their group. Even worse since its the only content that still works like that and its non-obvious so the vast majority of people think lockouts are like heroic and queue up for raids they can't actually join. - Similarly, there's no reason to prevent cross-realm raiding at any tier. Especially now that guilds themselves are cross-realm. Its not "fun" when you have to abandon your guild and your friends just because you happened to start the game on a different server 10 years ago. Sure you can pay for a server transfer but that's just a terrible feeling when you're having to pay Blizz purely to work around a problem they're intentionally creating. There's a lot of things that can be improved. Most of them amount to either "this shit is too hard" or "this is pointlessly annoying and provides absolutely no game benefit". Blizzard used to be the innovator on both of those things - WoW was super easy compared to its competitors back when it first came out, and one of their big selling points was that they reduced a bunch of annoyance (eg: they went to great lengths to advertise the lack of loading screen between zones). They seem to have forgotten why people loved their company in the first place (not just in WoW but many of their franchises suffer similar issues). Whether you want to blame Activision or if you want to call it a variant of the old "it only takes 20 years to go from liberal to conservative without changing a single idea" cliche or whatever else, regardless of the excuse they're just not at the forefront of design anymore - they're lagging far behind. Sometimes even behind their own prior design ideas.
The great simplification would be a smart move. Simplify classes, remove button bloat, simplify mechanics, make ALL mechanics CLEAR to understand without addons, remove buff bloat and, most importantly, REMOVE ION.
Big rating deltas between players should prevent or limit how much you can fall in rating from losing. People get mad at rating mismatch because they lose rating because they play with someone without experience.. but you then get a feedback loop of that person having a hard time getting experience. If you give rating protection when you group with them, it gives the higher rating players to help the lower ones without the possibility of losing rating while retaining the chance to increase for helping a noob understand.
I agree with Asmon, they have overcomplicated tthe game too much, The reason so many were attracted to the game in the past was that it was accessable to those of lower skill.
does no one realize the main problem with basically EVERY MMO today? because i know the devs do, and it’s always gonna be the same dilemma. How do you make a good MMO with rewarding loot, that has a extremely long lifetime? (6+ years) well you add more content after about a year. then comes the question of power creep OR constantly gear swapping(meaning replacing your gear constantly because you get better stuff every year). how do you make old gear still worth it and new gear also worth it? I feel like Classic WoW is a perfect example of this, it’s fun, leveling is great, endgame is great… but then what? add more content right? (new zone, more story, more gear, more endgame content) but then… then we are power creeping, or constantly swapping gear every year…. then the level becomes too high… then they have to add more content because you are all bored again… and then people complain the leveling is too much. Then you have Retail WoW. this has shown in other games as well, Destiny 2 deleted half its game, because it was boring, no one played it, and there was too much new content to make playing old stuff worth it. ESO hasn’t had as long a life but it had the same dilemma at one point, luckily they have Champion Points to fix the leveling issue, but now they suffer with constant gear swapping, every new expansion your old gear gets banked or destroyed and your new gear gets put on. the simple fact is, a ever expanding, rewarding, MMO is just impossible to make. it will get boring, or it will become *too much*.
what if you just make the glad rewards like mounts and such account wide so they only need 1 character to do it then make it percentile based and make glad gear more pvp focused and have that be character specific
They do have gladiator mounts account wide, along with tabards, illusions, and armor if you have the same class. About the only thing that isnt is the title in itself.
The key to great MMORPG games nowadays is to Make games simple in terms of spells and rotation, implement killing storyline quests, Character progression needs to be rewarding at every milestone but not necessity, community feeling, and absolutely no pay-to-win mechanics. 1. Spell variance and rotation: 4-5 spells at max and if there are more then make the player choose 5 out of 15 spells and perform a unique combination of damage ( complimentary spell tree) 2. Story and Quest: Every single gamer enjoys the great storyline of the game and quests should be the medium of that storytelling. Quest reward should be exp + some currency which can be spent on item shop in that zone so that every player has the ability to choose rewards they like. 3. Character progression: Progression should never be linear. Providing different progression branches like Maxing out the Blacksmithing profession would reward players with quest-like experience, new spells, and items that are not tradable but have similar power levels as other players who would just like to do quests and buy items from reward points. 4. Community feeling: Make world events available from level 1-max levels. rewards of world events are tied to event participation via how much damage is done to the boss, healing done to the team, or utility provided by some profession-related skills during the fight. Damage, healing, and all other factors are scaled so that a level 10 player's 2k damage is equal to the level 40 player's 8k damage. This way every player is able to participate in world events and the whole player base of the game has the same level playing field when it comes to world events. 5. No pay-to-win mechanics: Sell appearance, sell mounts (only available when you have base mount), sell voice packs, sell environment packs, sell texture pack of game assets, and many more stuff that does not have an impact on the game in any way but those who enjoy the game and want to customize the game according to their taste. These are just rough ideas and I'm sure companies can invest in good game developer resources to fine-tune it so that the game is always welcoming and engaging for every player. Brand new or 10-year veteran.
I’m not a huge PvPer but I agree 100% with what asmon says about being able to flex on people. Back in vanilla etc when you saw someone in a main city with full rank 14 gear or similar you stopped and looked at them because you respected it. And you knew that you would probably not be able to beat them in a fight. There needs to be a gap between the people who commit and those who do it casually.
I havent played wow since Legion. Which expansion did the flexing motivation stop in your opinion? I wish it was like back in Tbc, you could tell a gladiator player from a mile and honestly it was great to see that and knew this was an amazing pvp player who totally deserved it cuz it shows on the gear and mount etc. Did they really change that?
I can doubtless say, heal isn’t fun. Neither dungeon nor raid. People step into colorful circles except of the ones from their healer… You can spam heals out so that everybody lives. If the try is over people say typically 2 things. You didn’t heal enough or you as the healer didn’t do enough dmg… Every m+ affix feels like another punishment for the healer because the rest of the pack didn’t feel to play mechanics… On top of all ist absolute antifun that a tank outheals you. Tanks should get more tanky with their abilities not heal themselves.
There needs to be a happy medium. Retail WoW is too complex but then you look at Diablo 4 for instance and its actually boring having only 5 buttons with 3-5 modifiers on each skill. I feel like Wrath or Legion were kind of where the game needs to be complexity wise.
Classic WoW is the best medium, before resilience it felt like your abilities really did some damage from the get go, and every class only had like 1 to 3 buttons to press to do some damage so it was easily accrsible to learn.
@@quetz6335 yeah pressing 3 buttons for 10 min on a raid boss or spending the majority time auto attacking in pvp is really fun and engaging game design
Classic is a boring mess artificially stretched out to milk you for subcription time. Without the countless kill 8 mobs and loot this item from them which is a low drop rate you would be finished in a few weeks. They turn easy quests into an hour long boringsession just because this mob does not want to drop the quest related items.@@quetz6335
The best part he said; "I want people to play". Personally, I was relatively active in PVP during WOTLK & BFA because it was a fun thing to do when I was done with PVE activities or when my m+ team was not available. Nowadays even though sometimes I feel like queuing for arena I quickly decide not to go for it because it is way too complicated, and there are zero rewards I can get from PVP that I can use for PVE, so why bother? Totally agree with Asmon on this 1... Blizz delete half the buttons. I dont fully agree with the addons but Blizz has to figure out a way to drastically reduce their need. Weakauras should be no means be a requirement to do any content at any skill level.
You’ll never have wow be as good as it once was. Streamers have made sure of that. Everyone play how they play they don’t figure things out on their own ever since meta was a things these types of games dropped drastically in enjoyment.
This is the closest to a fully accurate answer as anything people are posting in the comments and certainly more than in the video. thanks for this post. On top of this, people are playing games that are much different than the 2004 core of WoW. Even people who are playing competitive games they can go hardcore on are likely a dwindling population with the games fitting into this category competing for attention, which there will inevitably be a loser in that battle. People are willing to switch gears to other games, different games, and games with less demands on the players time per session and overall.
I disagree. I didn’t understand one bit of WOW when i started playing and I didn’t google anything. Its such a mess/spaghetti of systems and on top of it, nothing outside of the current expansion matters! Its bad
Thats stupid to say. Even back in the Day People already had Guides/Entire TV Shows in some Countrys and other sources of information. Even if everyone will use only Guides thats better then todays Game Design of new MMO's. Just look at Runescape. Less but longer Quests in the entire World. Challenging but simple. It still works there to this day and you always have a sense of progression, items you remember wich have Value etc. Streamers have nothing to do with it. Its how they design there Game and the Systems they put in.
@@your-username-here2308 I’m not gonna try to convince you that tv and guides didn’t come even close to the influence of todays streamers. Diablo 2 you would join games and would get to struggle and figure things out with other players. Now days it’s how do we get through this the fastest and if your not using mods and the current meta you get kicked…for me that’s why MMOs are trash. I understand if you think the quest are garbage and wouldn’t argue with you on that. I just refuse to play in a world where everyone just copies the fastest streamer.
I think the perfect ending to WOW's story was the death of The Lich King Arthas. We need a really free server with Wrath of the Lich king without subscription. Questing as a hero made sense as long as we did it as mortals and didn't kill dragons and gods in 1 hit. Cataclysm was a complete dead end. Mist Of Pandaria, on the other hand, was a very creative and varied surprise. It's true, the pandas stung my eyes a bit. But it was innovative in every other way. Everything that followed was just unimaginative and undemanding theft of money. RIP WoW, RIP Blizz.
Watching this playing Ashran, really never won (kill the other faction boss). Finally got a raid leader that took charge, we followed his lead and crushed the other side. I really wish there was more ways to commend someone for excellent plays. Really shame, seems so basic and would increase engagement/good behavior
PvP is just not that good in wow anymore, its really just that simple. some exsample reasons as to why it is now just bad are 1: the game has got faster over the years but CC has mostly remained the same, a 6 second stun now is not the same as a 6 second stun in legion or WoD or prior. 2: the new class additions with every other expansion - every time a new class enters the game it inevitably ends up stealing identity from other classes and devalues that classes identity. Monks are just an agro version of rogue for comps that wanna run a demonhunter or DK instead of a mage, the monk identity can be summed up as 'speedy rogue' 3: Dev's unwittingly ruining PvP with bad new passive or enhancements to class effects, great example is how DKs can now death grip back to back 2 times- imagine being a warlock and outplaying the death grip with a portal just to find out he can spam the ability again. 4: all of the above makes new players even LESS likely to get into pvp making new blood in the pvp roster hard to come by, if I as an experienced returning player can't always understand what is going on how can we expect new players to wanna get interested in it too All in all, I think for PvP to become popular, it has to become cleaner. Players want the spells they cast on there bar to matter, to feel rewarded for good use of CC and like how they play matters. right now it feels like tracking 500 procs and rotating though a few small sequence of combos is about 99% of pvp and that isn't enticing for anyone
I would also bring back the artifact mechanics of legion, where your weapon was set and was your artifact, I would only add the capacity to transmog your artifact.
If you look at overall complexity of wow, it basically means if you want to play at any competitive level, you basically need a ton of addons etc. As much as I have done all that, and it makes things obviously way more efficient, you've gotta ask yourself in the end, why is all this stuff really needed to just be competitive in any way? The game basically forces you to min max to a crazy degree. Back in vanilla you didnt need that many addons at all. The game just has too much bloat, it does need a big reset to just simplify the game.
28:19 if you have good, obtainable rewards from ranked bgs, people will play them. This would also allow games with 10x10 dps or 1-2 heal x 8-9 dps which would allow the excess supply of dps to get into meaningful games. I think at the end of the day, players want to play meaningful games where they are building towards a reward, like a duelist enchant or glad mount. If these are available in a game mode that allows for more players, people will play it.
I'm a 446 Destro Warlock with 2634 rating (been playing DF for about two months) and I find it almost impossible to get accepted into pugs. If I wasn't in a guild I'd probably be stuck at 2200 forever. In Legion I rerolled a few times but never really had a problem getting my weekly 20 done, I could join a pug whenever I wanted regardless of class. So my main issues with the game right now are class balance in 5-mans and the M+ rating system. I think that the only thing that should be shown in-game is your highest key completed, so that weekly chest groups prob won't bother to look up your rio, but push groups will. That'd be ideal. I have very few complaints about DF otherwise, I'm really enjoying the expansion.
All I want is crazy, non-stop WPVP with good gear, even if I'm a solo or casual player. Now that I can actually buy top WPVP gear and play solo, everyone is flying around out of reach or unflagged. Just imagine the game exactly as it is right now, but with no flying mounts and forced PVP on PVP servers! would be 1,000 times better. We need at least a PVP island with no fly mount, pvp on always, and many useful things on it for people to have a reason to go there.
@@iv9ry I don't know how the original Ashran worked, but now it's just a BG like Av. That island on the MP expansion is a better example i know, world boss, quests, wpvp, no flying, everyone flag, that fun, but with reachable gear for everyone instead of raiders going around 2-3 shooting everyone.
Try arenas with me, they said. I need a healer partner, they said. After a chain of getting cc’d and decimated in less than a second i realised there’s no way to learn this thing. No wonder there’s no healers. Also in retail not knowing your rotation perfectly and then also not performing it perfectly makes your damage garbage. In wotlk classic i only had to look up a rotation very rarely when i felt like i am missing something because most stuff was so intuitive i had a breeze, and even then doing some errors doesn’t punish your output as hard. I could respec and learn in a few minutes, but in retail i would level up the same class 3 times to understand wtf is going on, and then new patch comes up and boom your rotation changed completely, now you get 3 more buttons to press to perform at least decently. Good luck finding new keybinds!
The problem is the new player experience. I never played WoW and then picked it up in shadowlands and started playing. I would let people know I was new before starting and most people were like whatever but then I would get kicked for dying to some mechanic I didn’t understand. I finally got to max level then I was confused on how to gear from there. It was a mess. I had to watch a bunch of videos and essentially do homework to learn how to play a game. Now I’m KSH and a mythic raider but their were so many quit moments in between that it’s a miracle that I made it to a point where I enjoy the game. I found a good guild and some people that were willing to work with me to get better. WoW needs a reset to get rid of this elitist pompous population cause anyone that tries to do more then the boring ass leveling the game has to offer is most likely going to quit.
Isnt it like that in almost every game? I think that being new player in games like Path of exile, Escape from tarkov, League of legends and so on is equally painfull
@@Dhgvvgh In POE and Escape from Tarkov the highest level of content PvE wise can be done solo where as mythic + and raiding requires a group to complete. League of Legends is PvP which is always gonna be more toxic than PvE. The argument you are making has the feel of comparing apples to oranges
Ye but that makes it worthwile. I dont think gamedesings changed, the perspective to games has changed because everybody has the mindset of an unsatisfied consumer. Everyone wants to have an easy time to play the game but want to be able to dominate the game as someone who invested 3 years in learning every shit of it. and so on. just bitching people everywhere.
25:58 Haven't played for ages. But as someone that always played healer, it's sad to see if it's really true that it's worse for healers in pvp. And seeing comments they should skip healing for it altogether too... If there is no feeling of skill expression, that's not good at all. The feeling of making the right decision on the right skill at the right time and pulling it off is so great. I'd 'tank' a few rogues for that as a trade off haha. If that's not there, yea, why go there. I'm still holding back to give it another try. But who knows 😄
I recently had the idea about what if they did an updated azeroth and essentially take our characters and put them in a new timeline. You keep all your stuff and you can go back to "old WoW" but they remake the old world to start with and redo the storylines of vanilla-wrath making changes to some story elements that could be done better in retrospect and also the new tech available to them. after wrath they can go in any direction with it.
ive played wow since MoP and never really done arenas. I tried this season for dragonflight and it feels terrible trying to get in to. Hard to find people, people leave the group after one or two losses, etc. Tried to do solo shuffle but id have to wait 15-20 mins in queue for an equivalent amount of time in the match. at that point its not worth it when I have limited time I can play.
Came back after 13 years and tried retail, I am enjoying it so far personally, but that's because the days of hardcore playing are over, so I just got to level 60 and now casually farm old raids and do quests for fun.
I didn't bother with Dragon Flight. 1. The familiar UI is different and reset. Although better overall, it pissed me off. 2. The talents changed. Again, although better overall. There's A LOT and i don't care about going through it all. 3. There's too many buttons once I'm specced. I don't know what to press in the right order and i don't really care. 4. Once that is sorted I level to 70. 5. Then i have to figure out where to go for the current patch. I will most likely end up on a new zone/island and grinding rep or rare spawns until I "finish the game" because: *A I don't want to farm Mythic+, it's complex and busy. *B I don't want my time wasted in raids. I have 1 maybe 2 hours to play a night if i'm lucky. *C Fuck PVP. I just die and have no idea how/why. *D Farming mogs and old raids if fun for a bit, but overall is annoying. It's especially frustrating when you get to fights like Spine, Eonar or KJ for example. *E No matter what I do, it will all be reset in a patch or next expansion so who cares I legit log in to kill time between everyday life. And I'm a huge fucking idiot because every time I do it i hope I get a slight inkling of fun and lost in the game and it simply hasn't happened for several years. @AsmonTV
My favourite part of wow in its entirety. MoP pvp. It felt sooo good to be blood dk breaking 1mil health, grab an orb of power and take on 10 people at once. There was just something about the way classes were balanced that allowed them to shine. Boomkins, Monks, Shamans.etc all were able to have there OP moments and make the experience enjoyable
I played an mmo years ago where u couldnt just use your pve gear in pvp because of a specific stat that they introduced. It was called resistance and made u take less dmg from other players, only the pvp gear had this stat so it was absolutely essential for end game pvp. A cool side effect was that it was good gear for solo dungeon runs as well. (Idk if wow has a similar stat like this, I'm a complete noob still)
My honest opinion as a new player is if they want to keep new people around the game needs to be mechanically easier to jump in and play with more focus on casual fun gameplay and fun things to do out in the world in zones for exploring (delves seem to be a step in the right direction) Im personally really enjoying the game it has really interesting lore and places to see. But there is way to much unessisary bloat i agree that a reset/overhaul is needed for sure
Of course it is. Lower the bar, shove it right into the ground. No one should ever have to rise to the occasion. In fact, let's just get rid of dungeons altogether! Sign in, get loot! Hell, the game should play it's goddamn self huh? Fucking blue ribbon hugbox baby generation.
@@matthewlawton9241 I could give 2 shits less about the loot. I just want to have fun playing the game, hence why I said more focus on more fun content to do in the world. Right now the game basically power levels you to get you into endgame to grind raids and mythic dungeons yippee that's exciting.
I'd like to see a Solo Rated (Not Ranked) Battlegrounds - Something similar to the way Classic PvP used to be with Military Titles - The more you play the more rating you get, the higher title you get, but if you take time off and don't play; more so consequtive time off, the higher the rank you are, the more/faster that rating diminishes. With that in mind, I think it would be worth giving rating points per Battleground per player's individual contribution and more dependant on objectives: 1. You get rating points not just based on a win or loss (participation), but you also get rating based on KBs, HKs, Damage Done, Healing Done, Points Captured/Defended, Territories Gained/Held, Flags Grabbed/Carried/Captured/Returned/Damage or Healing done to FCs/EFCs, Resources gathered etc... 2. You get a moderate amount of rating points based on something your Class/Spec/Role excels at, but higher amount of rating based on something your Class/Spec/Role doesn't excel at. Example #1: A rogue that should be good at stealing flag caps in AB or getting KBs in team fights will get a moderate amount of rating points based on the success (or attempt) of these objectives but doing so often will gain consistent rating. Obviously capturing a point in AB will net a higher rating result as this considerably affects the outcome of a win/loss. Example #2: An Afflock or Boomkin that does wide spread damage to the enemy team will generate moderate/light rating consistently (based on overall damage done or HKs made) but doing so over the course of a match will put pressure on the enemy team and therefore gain strong rating by the end of the match. Example #3: Healers rating based on healing done, healing done to FCs, healing done to team mates attacking EFCs, etc... generate moderate rating, but if a healer managed to capture LM in AB because they took some downtime to attempt a cap instead of heal, and were successful, then this should net a very high amount of rating. You get the idea, moderate/light rating based on what you're meant for/good at (diminishing on some objectives/attempts), and high amount of rating based on what you're not meant for/bad at. 3. Maybe instead of just a flat rating points gain for a win and none for a loss, maybe give a small amount for a win and half of that for a loss as a base rating points reward, but based on a win or loss, a win multiplies your overall BG contribution rating points gained by 1.5x - 1.7x and a loss by 1.0x that way, even a person that managed to carry their losing team with high contributions will get enough rating points that would compete with the low/mid/high-tier players that won. 4. Grand Marshall titles (as an example) would require you playing consistently everyday or every second day in order to achieve that level, whereas you loss titles/rank/points faster over time the more inconsistently you don't play. This way people can grind out the top gear by time spent and contributions made for wins rather than being stupid good at the ridiculous complexity of the current game state. Leave the Gladiator Ranks as Ranks and for Arena.
I always did not understand the WoW system of making a new patch/addon and basically crossing off the parts of the game which came before that. That never made sense to me when TBC came out and whole of the Classic became obsolete world for painfully leveling your new char.
I think it’s be interesting if there were world events. Like you know that plague glitch that had people cooperating to stop the spread like imagine something like that except less aggressive, maybe even a boss that travels around the world, it stays in one area for a while and then moves on. Imagine swarms of people travelling from one place to another. Idk I may just be dumb here but that stuff sounds interesting.
Completely agree, and statistically you can see the examples of bloat and needed trims with classes and specs. Take a look at the active WoW population statistics, the majority (30%~) of players the last couple expansions were BM hunters and other simplified classes/spec (not including some meta cases) because not only are people not having fun playing certain specs, but they've become 9-14 button messy/clunky rotations with little player understanding to the point they're using rotation helpers instead of knowing what to do intuitively. A friend pointed out his holy priest has 15 buttons he can have up to in "useful" abilities, but that's unapproachable to most players and excessive/redundant in healing requirements (not to mention "meh" holy priests as they sit right now). The game does need debloating and honestly it does need new blood entering the game. We've got players in their 30's, 40's, heck 50's and higher playing the game but rarely does the demographic seem like teens and 20's are playing the game. The population decline is real, the mechanics of the game are a real problem, we cater to a top 10% of players to keep them from being bored but the others are left modding the game to try and keep up with what should be built into the game to understand.
Id rejojn on these changes: - Ranked random 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 and battlegrounds with separate MMR to organised. - Honour gear matches heroic, conquest matches mythic raiding. - Remove the need for 100 different addons and design them in to the UI. Id rejoin WoW on those two changes alone and grind out PvP as you dont require set schedules 2 to 3 nights a week and strict guild rules around it, would give so much freedom.
the game has become too complex in many aspects, It's hard to know what to do next to progress with the character, even aiming just at pvp or pve, and there are too much systems overlapping from the last expansions, just logging and deciding what to do next becomes tiring.
I stopped playing seriously in Cata due to big life changes and wasn't able to get back into the game until recently - but I just can't get back into DF because I log in and it just feels overwhelming. I log in, update my UI, do two quests, and I'm just not feeling it. I did the first zone, then flew around on my dragon for a while, then logged out and haven't been back since. For me, I just want to play my druid through new content. I don't want to re-learn how to play my class every expansion because there's been a complete talent overhaul (AGAIN). There have been a lot of good QoL changes but overall I feel like it's just World of Systemcraft. I guess it's hard to balance between people who want things to be simple and people who feel that complexity is content. If there's no complexity people complain things are too easy. If there's not a million things to do in the game, people complain that they're bored. I don't know what the answer is. It won't happen but I DESPERATELY want WoW2.0. Cherry pick the better QoL stuff but start over without the bloat, the currencies that you use to buy currencies that you use to buy currencies, the borrowed power that you lose next time there's a major patch, the weirdass broken timelines that break immersion. I want to get in on the ground level, where everything is new to everybody, and we all learn together. At this point, DF is free with my Classic subscription, not the other way around. For now, I'm kicking around as a classic Andy. I'm a dinosaur, I know. If I do get bored with classic eventually, that'll likely finally be the end of my subs entirely.
I've really wanted to get into WoW for nearly a decade, but my friends were maxed and the solo experience was beyond a joke. Just looking at the list of addons I HAD to use for the game to be playable nearly put me off itself. I REALLY tried to get into it, but it's as if the game is designed for players who already know everything, and the toxicity was unbelievable. That's when I tried FF14 and still loving it 2000 hours in.
8:54 They literally did that in BfA and the community complained until it was corruption and trinkets were fixed, in Legion they regulated gearing in PvP and people also didn't like that, PvPers in this community haven't got the slightest clue of what they want they just know what they don't want and I think that's part of the problem, how do you enact positive change in a community that gives you so little feedback when you've tried almost everything to please them? Also and btw I agree all gear should be usable in PvP and vice versa, that'd be the only reason why me as a PvEer in this game would even consider PvP otherwise you have to farm honor gear and that's not something I will ever be willing to do.
Unpopular opinion, but I think they should remove any and every form of rating from the game. Remove RIO, remove arena and rbg ratings etc. WoW isn't an e-sport and it shouldn't try to be. The reason people love Classic so much is because the rewards are basically obtainable by everyone. Rating and competitiveness make an mmo worse and breeds a toxic environment that is daunting for players to get into. Just make the game better and people will play it for fun. Crazy concept, I know.
I tried to come back to the game for dragonflight after skipping shadowlands. I tried my resto druid, frost mage, and enhance shaman. All of them are just soooooo complicated now, I don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing. So, Asmon, I agree with you. I've played for 12 years, and this was the first time I stopped because my class wasn't fun to play
Boosters actually HELP create more players in the game. You buy a boost for AOTC you get invited to raids now. Buy boosts through M+ you can actuallly get invited and play the now. Ive done it before on new characters when i quit for a while went on to join a guild and clear mythic raids, quickest and easiest way to get me actually able to play the game and be invited.
@@UltraRambo even 20 is way to much. It is more epic and fun yes but most of the people have the isue with Not enough raider or they fill Noobs in just for Hit the 20 member and cant Beat the the raid 😅. If i can play with my friends in 10 man Mythic raid is down 100%
13:36 you’re wrong here. Glads/pvpers don’t care about having good gear for pve. Also, you are wrong about players just wanting to roll other players. We can literally do that now in bgs even with similar gear, the benefit of gearing easily is much better and more important to pvp than being able to stomp people in pub bgs
we went through a prune and got talent calendars. we get talent trees back people cry the same way... i dont want to lose the talent trees they are great and the game complexity is great. players should be able to play at a competitive level by choosing other talents/ less abilities.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxism It really doesn't. No offense meant too. There is a big misconception that Classic has a higher player count which is objectively not true. Classic does have a more active content creator scene due to HC and what not, however, the numbers in game are no where close to retail at all. Lets also not forget about those who play both versions of the game too
@@VermilionWake Which game would attract more new players? A less complicated version of the game like Classic or a more complicated version of the game like Retail?
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxism Depends on the game, as well as the intended audience..but most importantly, the game that can offer both versions (complex/simple) is best. There are people that love depth in their video games and its the main drive of their enjoyment.., on the other hand, some others loath it, they may as very well be playing the game as a form of escapeism from RL pressures etc
@@VermilionWake based on the graphs done by many creators its gone down hill after Cata. The game got more complex thereafter. I think some complexity is okay but not core to the game play.
I enjoyed Dragonflight for a bit but it gets super exhausting having to keep up with all the little things you need to do to stay "current". So many currencies, reps, other tokens, blah blah. It just gets to be too much to hold in your head and it's easier to just quit than try and ensure you are up to date. You can't log out for more than a few days without starting to feel like you've really fallen behind.
I’d love a catalyst event that wipes WoW back to the classic era but the problem remains, what happens to everyone’s hard work over all those years? That alone cancels any wipe
I'd love for casual play to be able to mix in with more hardcore play. I shouldn't have to have 5 different ability bars and memorize combos like it's Street Fighter. What if it was like Fable and you can just level individual skills? Maybe I just wanna put all points into fireball and have an epic fireball!
Retail has its upsides. There is a lot to do in the endgame. Mythic grinding is fun and Doing solo que arena is good to. However it's too much and so saturated. The combat mechanics for retail is saturated. The fantasy element is saturated, and the lore personally is boring. Everything is too fast paced and the game feels more like an arcade version of classic wow. Classic has it's downsides as well but what I do enjoy about classic is the game mechanics is more slower and less "Button smashing" where your rotating between 15 moves like you do in retail. I enjoy fighting a mob and they sometimes dodge or miss or parry. The combat is more slow and the gearing is slower yet more rewarding. Doing a dungeon and getting a sick blue axe is a great feeling while in retail the feeling of getting a new piece of gear is meaningless.
You have good points but awful ones too. Yes, there is a lot to do endgame and not just end-game, Dragonflight REALLY feels like an expansion turned up to eleven; It's PACKED with content. WotlK is probably a 1/4 or 1/3 of Dragonflight's content, that's how huge and how well Blizzard did this time. There's a plethora of options when it comes to stuff to do, im not sure any other games offers as much. The combat isn't saturated; that's bullshit, if it was, it would have died as a whole a long time ago, and it's been alive for almost TWENTY years, so clearly, people like it, because it still doesn't feel old or clunky. It is true everything feels fast, which makes dopamine hits less relevant since the element and feel of triumph is behind, but the funny thing is, this is casuals fault 100%. They want easier and faster things because of queues and their real life, but then the game becomes too easy, hollow, with barely any memorable moments or challenging situations, well, that's what you get. People are also super entitled and want a reward for everything. The reward for pvp shouldn't be other rewards, the reward for doing pvp is doing pvp, and winning pvp. The lore isn't boring, that's just you edgy kids who need a villain with wings and horns to feel something. The dragon aspects is old as fuck lore and it's REALLY cool to see the island and their way of living. These beings were created by the TITANS, so they're not something weak and puny.
@@fistofram5526 I didn't say the combat was bad... you just assumed I did. I said it's bloated which it is and some people like that the bloated mechanics. My 2 irl mates that still play retail love it. However to a lot of people the combat is boring. And I already said that dragon flight has a lot more to do in the end game. However more people are opting for classic over retail. Even some Glad pvper's are preferring classic pvp over retail and that's because Personally The combat SUCKS for most people. Even though dragon flight has more content and systems that are fun people are still quitting on mass and that's because the game is way to bloated. Wrath of the lich king which is meh i can still get quick arena ques on a monday morning while my two irl mates bitch about 10 minute ques at 1700 lawl. It's crazy how people prefer a 18 year old game that is dated in so many ways over a new game that has 50 times more to do that classic. People would rather level through westfall for the 20th time than play endgame retail wow.
I agree, the combat in retail is very bloated and while I do enjoy it, I like the slower style of combat that earlier versions of the game had as well, both have their own ways of being good. And getting my sick ass whirlwind axe on my warrior felt way more rewarding than getting any item in current wow, except for maybe getting my Ash'kandur this tier, which even that pales in comparison to the feeling of winning an Ash'kandi in BWL.@@imnackeredsirnackered948
@imnackeredsirnackered948 I appreciate your comment. You do explain the reasons why you stand by your opinion and not just parrot-around things that make little sense (as it has been widely done by people who have not given retail a shot or may not have played in ages, yet demand from the game to adhere to them). I often try to not comment on things in such discorse because of how unfortunantely sour a discussion turns when its discussed, but since this case is different (and I promise you I hold no bias, I'v played the game since its inception, and do play both versions, so here goes): Your point in regards to how fullfulling gearing up in terms of loot feeling rewarding is true, it indeed does feel better in classic due to how impactful an upgrade can be, and it feels very rewarding, but that does not mean there is none of it in retail too :) (just not as iconic in some ways though, maybe). When it comes to how fast or overwhelming things might look for retail, i really suggest taking in the learning curve the same way you do in classic, as in, there is no need for you to hyper rush your button-presses nor perfect your class mechanics down to the tee right from the get go. I absolutely assure you that the slower route into understanding the class is well worth it and the pay off where you notice your self improving at it is absolutely satisfying. The Lore part is a a tough one, not many may find it interesting due to various reasons...but more specifically, how badly it got during the past two expansions before DF. I personally do think its not as bad as many make it because of both preference as well as being very kept-up with it. In a way, the more deeply you dive into the lore, the more you get out of it and other nerdy speculation/lorecrafting things ;p. If you need any help with your wow journey just let me know in these commentst, maybe I could be of help
@@VermilionWake I don't want changes to retail I am more inline of wow going in two directions. Retail and classic+ With classic+ the game can see changes and progress that keep in line with the classic vibe. Blizzard however cannot turn classic+ into retail. The thing's I like about classic wow is that in most ways its easy but in other ways its hard (But not complex) Like levelling is hard but it's not complex and anyone can do it it's just that your journey is tough. What I love about classic/tbc and wrath is the mechanics are not bloated although in some cases it starts to bloat in wrath. What I love about classic also is each gear upgrade has a lot of weight to it even while levelling. Dragonflight did well with professions but classic professions are still awesome, fun and very important. Classic is a more slower paced, chill and has a homely feel to it which does need upgrades and new things added to it. Retail however is bloated, stressful and there is just too much.
This is why mop has been fun for me for so far. I have constant progressive upgrades. Capped gear on one main. Started on another. I get almost no progression in current retail
For a lot of this, blizz needs to look to FFXIV. Their pvp has a different spell list, which plays very simply, has some fun utility and a lot of survivability, but really few spells and not much cc at all. Also a super cool ending button (limit break) that gives you a bunch of flavour.
Im sorry but ffxiv pvp is complete dogshit compared to wow, crystalline conflict was neat for a season or two, but the blatant win trading, not being able to find queues off season, not being able to play with friends etc. The last thing wow should do is emulate anything ffxiv pvp related
People literally never group up in modern wow even if doing the same quests anymore it's so sad it's become a singleplayer game for so many people since nobody wants to actually interact with players anymore when getting online friends is one of the best things ever
Thats why i like Runescape, everyone uses Guides in that game, but they are not the Problem, its that the Game just dosent require outside of Raids to interact with anyone. If i never get forced by the Game, why should i ? There is no resone to do so.
Arena and the AWC ruined PvP in WoW. Arena is a mini-game and PvP should of never been balanced around it. MMO PvP is supposed to be balanced on large scale objective battles. PvP in this game went down hill when Arena gear became BiS and balance around it happened. Want great PvP in WoW? The majority of PvP players don't do Arena so focus on BGs, Brawls, Epic BGs and have them have the best rewards. All balance is around them. While I think Esports is a bad idea for WoW I could see an objective 5v5 map however Arena doesn't work and never will.
If you need an outside programs or addons to do a boss or a raid, then it's a design problem.
100%
True and real
That's why I don't really get into WOW i don't wanna play a game where I need a bunch of addons to even play it optimally
R E A L
Crazy how I had this opinion YEARS ago and literally no one agreed. Now after years and years of an addon vs blizzard arms race, I have been vindicated.
The simple truth here is that the people who made WoW great in the beginning are long gone and the torch is being carried by people unfit to carry it.
The biggest damage done to WoW was how they made expansions. WoW needs a total restructuring to become way more horizontal. It need to become something closer to Guild Wars 2.
@@TheRexTera Expo's were great until Cata hit. As soon as they started re-shaping the world and overhauling the talent system to be a cookie-cutter based retarded shitshow.
Then add all the extra buttons you have to press, all the extra bullshit on your screen and it's jsut overkill.
Reverting back to a TBC/WOTLK era of the client would drastically improve the whole game.
@@andywest6062 My biggest issue is that they “removed” the World and replaced it with the expansions zones. I think that’s the main reason so many of us went back to Era because that’s where you’re actually paying the base game. Every expansion makes the previous expansions into glorified interactive museums.
100%
Idk, I find retail wow to be an infinitely more compelling PvE experience at the higher end than anything in the past. Like peak warlock in BC was spamming shadow bolt
The thing that made me quit WoW was all of my friends left and I was by myself. I tried doing stuff with randos and everyone was a toxic douchebag. I got so stressed and anxious about messing up a mechanic in a random NORMAL dungeon because of how shitty people would act. Or the group would just speed run through everything to finish the dungeon. I don't find that fun.
So true. 80% of the groups just speedrun into dungeons. That's also due to the fact the the game is much faster now, which is a thing that I hate.
I get that some people enjoy pressing 100 buttons in a second, well, make a class work like that, or a spec, not the whole game.
sadge
you quit cause you werent good enough ?, normal dungeon doesnt have mechanics and people rarely speak in dungeon finder or m+ unless you are really griefing
@@antoniobrynildsen8025 Good to see one of the people he was talking about pop up, you sir and your ilk are a main reason MMO's are trash now days compared to 10+ years ago.
@@antoniobrynildsen8025 MMO where nobody talks, very rewarding to play
Listening to Asmon explained Fear vs Horrify make me realize how much Blizzard devs actually try to cripple their game.
It's like 2x3 vs 2+2+2, they both yield same result and essentially the same representation but Blizzard just make players go through both operation anyway.
For me as a casual PvE player that left in LK times..' i LOVED when i saw high end geared players with cool equipment. I made me think that i could go so far and do so much, and that there are so many things to see. That slowly died after LK for me. Eaxh xpac became predictable. It's one of the reasons I stayed with GW2 so long... It was the "awe factor" of the scope and the possibilities.
That's why i dont like transmog and mega-servers.
I grew up playing WoW in TBC on a private server that had like ~800 people online during the day. It wasn't dying or anything, there were plenty of raids and dungeons going and the server felt active, but not crowded. You knew where the hardcore guys were, you knew most of the big guilds and players made a reputation and name for themselves. That's how an mmorpg should feel
To me classic sod feels like that tho right now. Altough more populated , the world feels alive and not fragmented. Bad news is they just recently made a change to layering we its back feeling like retail. I want to see people while im questing or traveling. I dont want an empty world where everything is instanced and sharded.@@Dangerous1939
Blizzard looks at gear like 'if you max out gear, you'll quit playing.' But back in Wrath when I would hit max gear on my Rogue (before the next raid lockout), I started gearing up a Warrior instead. I even ended up tanking Heroic ICC on my alt when my main never made it out of 25 Normal guild runs.
Just let us be caught up. It's impossible to even decide on a class because you can't ever stop grinding to switch it up.
If you are not a total no lifer its impossible to play an alt these days. This is true for a lot of years... sadly...
I am not a no lifer. In PvE without a guild, and only a few friends, we gear alts in about a week that are capable of doing +22s, which can get you 3k io. I'm pretty casual nowadays and I have 4 geared characters at 486-488 ilvl.
Don't believe everything the bald one says. He's been playing a long time, but when is the last time you saw him play retail and not be dead last on the damage meter?
No.
I can log in and make and play an alt. Its your problem that you think playing wow means having your alt finished all progression.
@thegrim_1 PvPers don't want to geae up with PvE.
They want to gear up with PvP.
As it stands, you can't reasonably gear up through pvp unless you start at the beginning of a season with already decent gear.
Ques take too long and rewards are too few.
Great video. The sad truth is the grind to keep up with a PvP season is killer. As a casual who enjoyed Rated BG's, you have to play every day for hours to get your rating up passed 1600. You wait for a group to form for an hour, get in a match, win, and your rating goes up 3 or goes down. That's not really how some people want to spend their time.
Just out a little time into joining a guild 😂 you’ll have people to play with all the time. You guys keep pushing this solo experience thinking it’s the whole game lmao.
@@knallow_ Not all guilds are very inclusive of adding others and most end up getting burnout and leaving the game lmao
@@Gamecontrol. dude join a non HC guild 😂 if you’re on stormrage or area 52 you can absolutely join our guild. I promise a majority of guilds are not that serious but you do have to find one you fit into.
@@knallow_"join a Guild" bro, retail WOW's entire design ethos prevents that. The game is designed around making sure all content occurs at max level and that every single piece of content is accessible through a teleport or an automatic lobby. There is no interaction with anyone except bots selling gold.
This and the fact that PvP/late game raids require such a high level of investment and knowledge of the game means you will be refused entry by any guild with active players.
The game is broken in design; it pushed new players through content to the point they see basically nothing before reaching the level cap, and then forces them to try and get into the good graces of people with neither the time nor patience to basically build the noob up to a decent level.
There's a reason new players don't even attempt to start, then leave after a day. There's a reason old players are leaving in droves. There's a reason the only people left playing WOW retail are those with infinite time in the world... and yet hate the game.
I find it very interesting when talking about the hyper-specificity of differences in the mechanics of Hex and Polymorph because it reminds me the extremely specific interactions in things from way back in WC3 DotA. The main difference being those were engine limitations that were later specifically implemented into Dota 2, and then mostly removed because they were pointless.
They're not pointless. It adds to the class/spec fantasy, it's an RPG not a hyper competitive PvP game. Having a lot of the spells and abilities being exactly the same between classes and specs is *bad* for an RPG.
I can agree that there are too many random debuffs and shit but homogonizing core class/spec abilities like Hex and Polymorph would just water down the RPG aspect of the mmoRPG. I don't think that's good in any way whatsoever for WoW.
But doing something like homogonizing DR among different types of hard CC like Asmon suggested _would_ make sense and doesn't sacrifice the RPG aspect of the game.
DotA isn't an mmorpg, it's a hyper competitive PvP game, you really can't compare them 1 to 1.
Hex and polymorph are completely fine. Rotations and damage modifiers are too much for me. Too many abilities. I'm sure if you played retail all along it would be okay, but hopping in new it's a bit much.
@@handsomebear. hate to break it to you but every form of damage and heal is actually just the same thing. Health bar go down, health bar go up. You can just flavor them with names and animations. Why should CC be any different? If two debuffs do effectively the same thing they should show up the same. "Hex" and "Polymorph" can be spell names but if the effect is the same why is the effect different.
@@Draconic74 this is so intellectually dishonest. hpriest heals differently from disc and mistweaver. so dumb.
Blizz did an ability squish / cull ages ago, I forget what expansion it was. And what resulted was various classes feeling identical with zero class fantasy. Now it's back to the same debate of "there's too many abilities".
Imo the bloat in retail wow is just the number of useless / redundant systems from previous expansions that haven't been depreciated.
I.e. garrisons from WOD. No one wanted it then, and no one wants it now. They were originally brought in for 'player housing', and it ended up doing nothing. Or azerite gear from BFA.
I think talking about complexity, WotLK and Cata were probably the best. Classes were getting fleshed out and diversified, but it was also just basic rotations with a little bit of fluff here and there. Things were distinct and impactful, but not plentiful. In MoP the ability bloat really started to happen if memory serves, and after that we really never got back to basics because borrowed power ruined any chance to have a comprehensible class.
At this point Asmon's point is getting a bit stale since he's been saying it on repeat for awhile now, but it really do be true. I really dislike a lot of classes in wow right now because it feels like you have a rotation that's like 6 to 7 buttons, then you also have 30, 45, and 60 second CD's you need to weave in as a sort of sub rotation during your regular rotation, and then you have burst CD's and trinkets you also need to line up which may or may not change your priority list/rotation again. I feel like as every class I just want to press more buttons than is feasible. You need like 4 or 5 GCD's of setup for your burst on almost every class now. And so many classes have a bunch of low CD meaningless buttons that just do damage an have barely any interaction with your class.
Like wtf is Secret Techniques? Literally just slightly stronger Eviscerate. wtf is symbols of death? most people just macro it into shadow dance. why are Death chakram, steel trap, and barrage a thing? They're literally just "press on CD for dmg" abilities. At least explosive shot is satisfying to press. Why is it possible for a warrior to have Dragon's roar, Spear of Bastion, and Ravager all at the same time? They're literally the exact same button: do AoE damage and generate rage, with a different flavour of buff to go with it. Why do Unholy DK's have like 3 or 4 CD's that literally just offer basic functionality like multi dotting or enabling cleave? It should literally just be as simple as "apply festering, cast D&D, spam scourge strike", why is Vile Contagion a 1.5min CD that's also on the GCD? As if Unholy DK's didn't have enough fucking buttons to press already...
Completely agree - once you add in too many abilities and rotations, you ruin the pacing and timing of each class. Eventually each class blends to the point where it no longer feels distinct and you end up with a button smashing fest. The key to the game lay in when to use an ability, rather than the volume of abilities - less was more.
@@forrestmcgee7631 It's boring on a target dummy, but I think it becomes much better when there is more emphasis on the world and boss encounters. I've never seen wow Classic as boring for example, because there's almost more to think about when it comes to playing around your mana and trying to make the most of it when you have vastly less tools.
for me, the best version of hunter is in wotlk. Its perfect, easy to learn and start in the game but hard to master. In cata become too op. Ppl that dont play hunter in wotlk dont know how fun and epic was. Today hunters is super boring and beginner friendly class, i stop maining it. Specialy because blizzard remove abilities and talent tree for pets. Was soo cool and fun, it give your pet a much more prominence.
Imagine that your class become so fun, and blizzard make it boring every expantion... wtf
Its fine nerfing a class, but making less fun just kill the game
True, I'm a rogue main and I quit the class cause of button bloat, I'm playing ret paladin now, after the rework they removed a lot of buttons and the class feels really smoothier, a breath of fresh air honestly, I was about to quit wow, mages got a lot better after rework too, hope they do the same for every class, sadly the holy paladin still have 100 buttons to press and thats why I'm not playing as a healer.
That's exactly why I don't like to play wow anymore. Way to many buttons and stressful rotations. When I pick my talents I hope that there are many passive ability's so I don't have to much buttons to worry about. But the game punishes you for that because if u want the 'meta' talents you have to add 7-10 ability's to your rotation. And I play since Woltk, I can't even imagine how new players feel about that.
take cata for an example, u guys remember how many pvp players went into pve to get the best gear for pvp? the trinkets for casters, some off pieces that gave insane dmg boost. I feel its fine that pve players COULD do pvp to get better in pve. uno reverse card, and i feel thats ok
37:30 The Ma'nari Eredar were the scientists, mages etc on Argus. As a Demonology warlock, your artifact is upset, pissed off, at how Kil Jaeden, Archimond, and Sargeras played, pitched, and used him and the other ma'nari and at the end, hopeful that his family that keep his monicker might see the potential in joining the mortals on Azeroth as he has with your warlock and orderhall.
Demo WL 4ever
The vast majority of eredar were still completely fine with going on a genocidal crusade a cross the star, slaughtering maybe billions along the way
After quitting for a while and coming back because my friends were playing pvp, I used to be gladiator but now i have to look up every single class and what they do and how to counter them AND learn my entire class over again, Along with every new system and currency and crafting plus everything in between. All that just to be decent at low mmr arenas. This is why there is no new players and a very very small pvp community. I log into SOD and its thriving, i log into retail and the only thing i see is a million things i have to google and a million people selling some sort of boost
I am a relatively new player to WoW. I just started about two months ago and I have thoroughly enjoyed the dragon flight expansion. I will say that I have had 2 friends that have been playing WoW for 10+ years each helping me with my first time. I only have one major gripe with PvP and it’s that I shouldn’t need to know every single thing I need to dispel, stun, etc. before I play it and that’s what it feels like right now. I started with a Ret Paladin for my first character and was creating another one and went with mage. All I’ve heard from my friends now is how demanding it is to know every in and out of the kit plus bosses. I understand it’s an MMO and I’m not opposed to learning it but I do think for a more casual player, they would struggle due to the extremely steep learning curve. I’ll say again having my two friends guide me was an enormous help and I think I would have shied away had it not been for them.
Mage is easy
I know I'm probably gonna catch some shit for this take, and I think WoW definitely needs a reset, but it needs to be split into two separate games. I noticed during this entire video that Venruki didn't once mention the PVE/Open World side of WoW, which is arguably what started its reign as top MMO back in vanilla. He wants people to come back to WoW so the PVP queues improve but the PVE/Open World which is most likely what will attract new players is a dumpster fire right now. Split the game into two and you'll get the crowds back. Reset the PVE side of WoW, and create a new PVP-only game set in the Warcraft universe. Focus on creating an amazing system for BGs and Arenas and other forms of player vs player combat. Most of the people who love PVP don't care about the PVE side of it. They see it as a hassle, a burden that only delays them getting to the part they love. While on the other side of the coin the PVE players want their world back, simpler times with that vanilla RPG feel. Hulking beasts with swords, shields and battle axes, and slinky assassins with chain mail bikinis. WoW needs a massive schism to save it.
you figured it out, my friend. that's exactly it.
I came back to the game about six months into Shadowlands, after leaving at the end of WotLK. It was a lot of fun for a minute: I went back to my old guild, leveled up some characters, went on a raid. But the overly complex (and frankly bizarre) systems of Shadowlands and my disinterest in Mythic+ or ranked PvP really wore me down. The final straw was spending weeks - WEEKS - reading up on add-ons, getting new add-ons, configuring them all, and setting up the GUI for each is what drove me away. I love raiding, and I always will (I was a big EQ fan before WoW came out), but the sheer density of work needed outside the game was too much.
Game is more of a lifestyle than a game -_-
Genuinely question here, why didnt you tried to play without addons ?
Takes about an hour to setup the base addons if youre not one of the ui bois wtf did you do
@@enmasarutobi4980 yeah that's prolly 50 mins too much if fucking addons have to be in the game they could atleast go and integrate them into the client so you don't have to update all that shit etc... imagine if dbm for example would download and update with urgent client, maybe had in game 30 secs tutorial videos as an option for new players? Think about how much crappy nonsense new people have to go through
As far as the whole ability pruning thing goes, I think the biggest problem that we have is that there's just too many available abilities for every class and spec. I love having lots of different abilities available to my character's, but I wish that they would replace more of my current abilities. So let's say I'm going down a talent tree and I have an option to pick between ability A or bility B. well regardless of which one I pick it's going to replace an ability that I already have. So I don't have a new button to push, it's just a different button that does something different. allowing me to customize my character more
Rotation for warlocks is so obscene I ended up quitting the class and it's great fun. People play destro because destro is OP + it has like a 4 button rotation vs the 13 button general rotation of affliction which does virtually no damage. When they nerf things they either nerf it in such a way it doesn't matter or they make the spec unplayable for years.
People are quick to forget. W.o.D brought in the "great prune" and players lost their minds saying blizz was simplying the game too much. Now we've come full circle and people complain the game is too complex. Player base doesnt have a clue what they want as is the case with most games
They need interesting enough passives on choice nodes with active abilities.
Expanding on this, Blizzard removed the class individuality. You used to know "okay a rogue is going to do xyz, so I need to do ABC".
Now that all classes can do everything its impossible to predict what other classes are going to do.
I love watching these videos it validates literally every thought in my head. I think the issue is that we’ll never get our beloved game back no matter how hard anyone tries. It’s run by the most toxic company on the planet I doubt the game designers even care about it that much at this point
yup, we need to let go
They've burnt through nearly every beloved character and villain in the franchise and replaced them with Toddy fucking Whiskers. This company will never make WoW what it needs to be ever again.
at this point there just milking the existing player base for as long as they keep paying, low effort and easy money, as soon as that status quote changes, they will just sell it off or start a clone that does the same thing, with probably a lot less development.
I'd be surprised if many (or any) of the people that designed OG or TBC are even still at Actilizzard. Strikes me as a product where the visionaries responsible moved on and the product is handed off to a different team with a goal more in line with the suits and bean counters vision than the original designers vision.
"Most toxic" is a bit of a reach, EA is way worse 😅
8-12 spells is the sweet spot. Design really interesting spells (charge up spells, spells that interact with eachother, spells that change 3x for a combo ability like riven in lol.) and call it a day.
Solo queue is so long because there's no healers. What if they just made it so if there wasn't 2 healers there just isn't one, and to stop from people just exploding in 1 second, there's a damage reduction in those matches. So 3 DPS vs 3 DPS, with a full 30-40% damage reduction across the board.
Without the damage reduction, this was already my recommendation.
Someone send this to Blizzard
@@edwardhatfield5360 The problem Without the damage reduction some one will get targeted and be dead in .5 seconds with no healer. maybe 30-40% is too much I'm not sure. But I came back to wow for PVP and left because the queues ruined it.
This makes classes that don't have a lot of sustain or effective damage negation unable to consistently win games. Spells like bubble or iceblock would be bis in these matches. In every lobby you would hardfocus the DPS with the least or weakest damage negation and basically win instantly. Solo shuffle teams are coordinated enough to focus one target, but generally not coordinated enough to effectively keep their weakest link from dying. I think Rogues, Mages and Paladins would be kind of broken in this mode. Warriors and Warlocks would probably stink.
best solution to this problem? No joke just give every class a healer spec, and by extension a tank spec as well
I miss the "mid-fantasy" feel of the old game. I realized that when I returned to classic. The fact that the craziest mount in a horse with flames, no flying, no rainbow horses dazzling the sky and spewing shit, no chauferred motorcycles, none of the technicolor neon shit they put in the game over the past 10+ years to outdo the previous expansion in an "out-garish" arms race.
Highest level cloth gear is some well tailored purple robes. Best weapon is a big thundering sword kinda feel.
Can 100% attest dragonflight is overwhelming to get in to. Walked into the capital city hub looking for a portal to Orgrimmar. Immediately had 10+ quests in sight, 3 people talking to me on my screen in a dialogue box talking about systems to stop the spreading corruption, weekly objectives, and the portals arent even there until I do a quest but I dont know which one is the right quest.
So instead I go kill anub on classic and watch hc death comps
This. The new player experience is nuts. Some would like to learn the story from vanilla to current expansion - this is currently not happening well enough with Chromie Time, nor is it the default. Anyone not caring about the story at all could just leave Chromie Time and fast-track to latest expansion, but there needs to be something easing players into all the systems upon systems instead of bombarding them in capital city with quests in random order from multiple expansions. This is the first gate new players must pass through. Give them the key.
LOL i had the same experience the other day. I re-subbed for Hardcore last week, and out of curiosity i logged on the DF for the first time since January. I saw all the minimap bloat, Campaign quests popups and dialogues, and got lost in a second.. You can imagine, I immediately Alt-F4'd and got back into Classic HC xD
THIS XD. I play WoW everyday for hours and I have no idea what those quests are about... I'm literally harassed by all those quests everywhere.
Playing classic HC, the guild is alive, people in the world working together, making friends and combining resources; even professions are mega impactful.
I logged into retail first time in a week, and felt like I dropped a tab of LSD. Shit going on everywhere but nothing happening and no sense of achievement.
Spend the latest tender to increase my xmog and then I realised how empty it was as I was running around aimlessly.
This. So much happening onscreen but nothing impactful
I was just talking about this with a friend in wow last night. About why we are playing classic and not retail. The game is just bloated with content and not enough people playing it. It's no longer about building friendships and sharing experiences with others, it's about how much in game shit you have.
Tried retail after leaving in Legion. I have to say the World looks nice and there is a lot of dubbed quests, but everything still feels blunt and the World is dead. I switched backed to classic/hardcore after hitting lvl 15 on retail and i dont think i will come back again
Oh no, you have too much stuff to do? What a horrible problem to have
@@darkmatterpancakewhat’s the point of this comment? Grow up
@darkmatterpancake9824 having content to do is great, it is awesome how much stuff you have to collect, but the fact the game does not foster relationships with other players with which you can share the stuff with is where the issue lies
I wholeheartedly agree with the "too many buttons" thing. Additionally, I hate how everyone is basically a 3 minute mage now. I don't want to hit 5 cooldowns to suddenly do 4x the damage or whatever. What I want to have is frostbolt if I want to slow enemies, fireball for max dmg, etc. I quit the game after cata, came back in late shadowlands. When I looked at the abilities of classes I just went "what the hell is this?" and legitimately everything felt worse compared to back then.
I started WoW in classic. I got rank 11 for the mount on my rogue. The shoulders + helmet were also bis / very good for a brief period in pve. TBC was my first time in arenas, pvp gear often had weapons as good as the bis pve weapons for that season/raid phase. I got 2K on my rdruid for a good heal mace and 2k on my warrior because the 2h mace was bis in pvp. I quit in wrath, the pvp wasn't fun and didn't feel rewarding. I tried retail a few times, including dragonflight. Never delved into pvp at all, didn't touch an arena. It seemed like too much work to get involved.
Wow feels like a second Job. Everyone that I talk to that plays retail only talk about endgame, dailies, farming for ilvl, and submitting resumes to different guilds to raid.
Probably one of the most interesting parts of playing BG3 is seeing the mechanics of D&D integrated into another videogame and being able to connect the dots on how blizz originally tried to make WoW based on D&D. It's also enlightening to see how the modern retail wow experience has deviated and become severely bloated compared to where it started.
If the character mechanics were isolated into a single player game, the complexities of the talent trees would be fine. But in the larger ecosystem of the WoW MMO, it is a bit much. At this point in time, WoW has systemic issues of being over complicated and overdesigned for the sake of appearing to have more depth than it needs, and more complexity than the average player can reasonably manage throughout standard gameplay.
this is absolutely true. i played:
vanilla, BC,wrath,cata
long break, then tried pandaria at the end, and i was totally effing lost. same damn thing happened in dragonflight, there is so much effing shit in the game that you end up just ignoring 90%, 5% is super effing complicated, and the last 5% is just nostalgia keeping you there. by the time i figured out dragonflight and got 90% of what i wanted, i was burnt out and done with it.
so imagine a person that has NEVER played wow giving it a try, there is no effing way that person would have a good time for at least 5-6 months.
Same thing with why D4 sucks vs D2. D2 was based around 5E DnD rules.
Bro i played and finished BG3 and wanted to play classic wow, you can see its inspired around dnd ruleset
Just a tiny little correction - Blizz didn't want to base wow on DnD. World of Warcraft originally was an Everquest clone (devs literally said they wanted to make a 'better' EQ). Everquest itself might've been based on DnD tho, not sure bout that
i liked how it was originally. you do your grind for the week and after reset you get the rewards. and it was all done through random bg’s.
Thats literally how it works now.
@@ziggs123 sort of, but instead of being gated behind your individual involvement in regular pvp gameplay, now you’re gated behind a group win rating in “special” pvp gamemodes.
Man when Asmon talked about why there are no healers being a main healer off and on since The Burning Crusade that was so true that could shook me to my core. Crappy players who don't help at all and you get nuked by the other dps then they flame you...
26:18 No… there are no healers because in solo, if you win 4/6 you only gain 5 rating. The only way to actually gain rating is to go 5/6 or 6/6, which it turns out, can actually be pretty hard
Healing is actually fun. It is just frustrating because it is so hard to gain rating as an average healer
And they also just punish you so much for losing. If you go 2/6 you will lose like 20-30 rating. So it is so easy to lose all of your gains if you have a couple of bad matches. It’s just not the right way to incentivize people to play as a healer
Yo Asmon, love your content. But do you think you could make more gameplay videos? Great video btw
warrior does not need 3 buttons to change stances. anyone whose played the class has the stance switching macro on one button. intervene should be one bottom/an auto talent. two charges or one charge that auto changes to intervene when target friends. all classes(except demon hunter) have at least 5 buttons that can be merged/trimmed.
*looks at the 567 button Enhancement Shaman rotation* ...just 5 huh....
Victory rush and Bloodthirst are the EXACT same thing, it's just one is a free cast. Why is it not one button? You aren't even allowed to make a macro for it either that works properly, arbitrary limitations.
@@truckywuckyuwu Victory Rush and Bloodthirst are not the same thing at all.
If you want laymen to be able to follow whats going on the game shouldnt remove 5 buttons they should aim to keep just 5 lol
@@H25Invicta wotlk it is.
Not talking about shitty retail. No one plays that garbage.
Lowkey every time I've tried getting into WoW I just got overwhelmed by all of the addons I had to install. All of the health bars and stuff I was expected to pay attention to. I just wanted to have fun hitting a big guy with a big stick.
Give classic a shot, either on official or something like turtlewow. I think the only add-ons I ever used were the atlas loot and maybe a tracker for gathering nodes. Default ui and none of the other bullshit and you'll be alright. The game makes a lot more "sense" in the old versions, imo anyway.
I don't understand this. you don't have to install anything and you don't have to pay attention to "all the health bars" just play dps and blast the group wdym stop getting peer pressured into something that isn't a requirement at all
@@kalle-malle Except it often is, once a party finds out you are not optimal, they can and will kick you, and it does happen a lot. Current playerbase is extremely intollerant when it comes to this.
@@Oumegi I pug all the time, high keys even, nobody ever talks about addons nobody ever flamed me in months of pugging. One time a guy flamed a healer for constantly going afk and he was replaced. You have to be provoking it somehow. I don't know where this "the community is toxic" shit is coming from. maybe you are toxic, overly defensive or whatever, I'd have to see those interactions and see what you did in that run but in my experience for EU this isn't true.
Like the other guy said, give Classic Era a shot. The community is there and the sense of adventure is there and you don't need any addons.
allow 3 dps to go in dont let either team have a healer it's just super quick games. Then at least you are waiting in queue for 30 seconds. Just make it tripple dps give and take less rating away.
Worst take ever
how would fix the que times? @@Arite-Deadlock
Not a bad idea tbh
Then you have to do 10 rounds instead of 6 to play all possible combinations
How to make even less people play healer:
I agree with almost everything:
- Fewer buttons is something I've thought was needed for a long time. Melee classes in particular are bad. Some of them have 6 or 7 buttons just in basic rotation, before we even start talking about CDs, CC and other rarely used buttons (rarely relative to the actual rotation abilities of course). Should be a max of 4-5 buttons: People should be able to play to the level of "pretty good" without having to spend 4 hours in the keybind menu, which limits the available binding options to basically 1-4.. maybe include 5 for a 15- or 30-second ability that you hit "often" but not "always".
- M+ is too easy for the rewards you get, relative to raiding and pvp. M+ should probably cap out at heroic tier rewards and leave pushing to 20+ for those who just enjoy the challenge. Allow raiding to go back to being "the big important thing" (and glad for the pvp for the side of things). Right now it feels like raiding is the thing that's only there for the challenge and M+ is the "real" end game. Even more so with the catalyst system allowing players to get their tier bonuses without ever setting foot in a raid.
The one thing I don't (fully) agree with:
- Going back to only two tiers of raids. I'm OK with main raiding only having normal and heroic (or whatever labels) but I don't think ditching LFR is a good idea. LFR design could certainly be improved - the meme that LFR is harder than heroic is not a thing that should ever exist.
I'd say an easy option would be to just remove the brez cap in LFR. Let the baddies just keep getting rezzed and make wipes effectively impossible unless every single one of your brez-capable players is complete garbage. The gear you get from LFR is already pretty useless other than the tier pieces and the occasional OP trinket so removing the wipe-ten-times "mechanic" isn't going to cause significant stat inflation. (Of course this also requires removing any one-mistake-wipes-the-raid mechanics in LFR, but they already mostly do that so again not a significant difference.)
Regarding the main raid difficulty though: If they did remove mythic, I wouldn't want to see normal get easier and heroic get harder - I'd want to see both getting harder. Right now normal is pretty much a one- or two-reset speedbump before jumping straight into heroic for all but the most absolutely casual guilds.
I'd like to see a new normal be somewhere between current normal and current heroic, and likewise a new heroic to be somewhere between current heroic and current mythic. Normal right now is too easy and mythic is too hard. Heroic is in a pretty good spot (at least in my experience) so just split the difference on both sides.
Another idea if they want to also cater to the absolutely most super casual guilds is to allow LFR to be entered as a guild group, making it effectively replace both the current LFR and the current normal. A raid you can pretty much just walk through with near-zero effort while you're shooting the shit with your buddies.
Some additional things they could do:
- Make the dragonriding vigor less annoying. When your best gameplay mechanic is "sit and wait for 3 minutes", the design is wrong. Either make them charge faster while grounded, or give us 2-3x the vigor bubbles so we don't have to deal with it as often, or just remove the vigor system all together (outside of the races, obviously) and let us fly as long as we want. Put a short (maybe 3-5sec) cd on surge forward and skyward ascent if they really "need" to prevent players flying as fast as possible.
- Allow hovering again. Its just super annoying that you can no longer just afk wherever you happen to be if you need to. Maybe make it a new ability that chews up all of your vigor bubbles or something to allow you to just sit there for as long as you need, and allow the bubbles to refill while you wait (so it invokes the 3minute problem above, but because its specifically for afking that hopefully won't matter as much - assuming they don't just get rid of vigor entirely and then it doesn't matter).
- Allow dragonriding in the old worlds. With the recent dragonriding cups I wonder if they're working toward this and its a technical limitation but its definitely something they should do.
- Fix the draenei and blood elf starting zones. Its been almost 13 years since cata. I know there's little stuff happening in those zones and the "roi" is limited but you can't even buy BC separately anymore. Its just embarrassing at this point (ideally bring those zones fully into Azeroth and get rid of that silly zone portal in EPL).
OK that was all about flying. It really annoys me in its current state. The downtime of dragonriding is one of the bigger reasons I've mostly stopped playing. I've always spent most of my time in game doing world activities and while the 800% max flight speed is fun it doesn't make up for all the waiting around imposed by the vigor system.
Some other things they can do:
- Stop making single-target and aoe builds almost completely mutually exclusive. Nobody enjoys having to remember to swap talents every boss (or even every trash pack). Its just an unnecessary annoyance. I could accept a _small_ differentiation (maybe 1-2%) but at the moment for a lot of classes its not just a huge damage differential if you forget to swap to the "right" build but sometimes entire critical abilities are missing (eg: hunter's multishot is not available if you're building for single-target).
- Add more world activities. Legion was great for that with the introduction of world quests that had actually useful rewards. They've been backpedaling on that every expansion since then though. Right now you only get new WQs every three days and once you've done those you may as well just log off. There's a handful of world "events" like dragonbane keep that aren't too bad but most of them are fairly short (10-15min) with long respawn times (2hr for dbk), most of which overlap with the other world events, so its really difficult to get in them. And they only give the "good" reward once a week (at least they have secondary rewards so its not completely useless if you happen to pass by it again at the right time).
- Simplify professions. I understand why they made them more interesting (that was desperately needed) but they want way too far the other direction. Professions went from a mindless grind straight to an incomprehensible mess. There must be a middle ground in there somewhere.
- More BoA stuff. Every expansion they announce that they're going to "make alts useful again" yet every expansion it seems like alts get more and more useless. Sure it might be more streamlined to get an alt to max level and get them a basic set of epic gear, but they're not really "useful". That's always been somewhat the case but way back in the day it was still worthwhile to make alts for the sake of professions. Blizz has been doing everything they can to remove that usefulness in the name of forcing people to interact with the rest of the player base (eg: crafting orders in the current expansion) but they never replaced that usefulness with anything else. The only reason to have an alt now is to fill alternate roles or provide extra lockouts in group content (that's something but only applies to a very small percentage of players). I don't know what all they could make BoA that wouldn't cause the sweaty types feel like they "have" to grind out a dozen alts, but I'm sure they could come up with something.
- Get rid of mythic raid lockouts. Asmon touched on this but these lockouts are just annoying. There's certainly a good reason to maintain drop-level lockouts (eg: how normal and heroic work) but completely preventing people from joining a raid is just frustrating for everybody - the raiders themselves as well as any guilds looking to fill holes in their group. Even worse since its the only content that still works like that and its non-obvious so the vast majority of people think lockouts are like heroic and queue up for raids they can't actually join.
- Similarly, there's no reason to prevent cross-realm raiding at any tier. Especially now that guilds themselves are cross-realm. Its not "fun" when you have to abandon your guild and your friends just because you happened to start the game on a different server 10 years ago. Sure you can pay for a server transfer but that's just a terrible feeling when you're having to pay Blizz purely to work around a problem they're intentionally creating.
There's a lot of things that can be improved. Most of them amount to either "this shit is too hard" or "this is pointlessly annoying and provides absolutely no game benefit". Blizzard used to be the innovator on both of those things - WoW was super easy compared to its competitors back when it first came out, and one of their big selling points was that they reduced a bunch of annoyance (eg: they went to great lengths to advertise the lack of loading screen between zones). They seem to have forgotten why people loved their company in the first place (not just in WoW but many of their franchises suffer similar issues). Whether you want to blame Activision or if you want to call it a variant of the old "it only takes 20 years to go from liberal to conservative without changing a single idea" cliche or whatever else, regardless of the excuse they're just not at the forefront of design anymore - they're lagging far behind. Sometimes even behind their own prior design ideas.
The great simplification would be a smart move. Simplify classes, remove button bloat, simplify mechanics, make ALL mechanics CLEAR to understand without addons, remove buff bloat and, most importantly, REMOVE ION.
Big rating deltas between players should prevent or limit how much you can fall in rating from losing. People get mad at rating mismatch because they lose rating because they play with someone without experience.. but you then get a feedback loop of that person having a hard time getting experience. If you give rating protection when you group with them, it gives the higher rating players to help the lower ones without the possibility of losing rating while retaining the chance to increase for helping a noob understand.
I agree with Asmon, they have overcomplicated tthe game too much, The reason so many were attracted to the game in the past was that it was accessable to those of lower skill.
say what? how did you come to that conclusion?
Its not really complex its just way to much of everything
does no one realize the main problem with basically EVERY MMO today? because i know the devs do, and it’s always gonna be the same dilemma. How do you make a good MMO with rewarding loot, that has a extremely long lifetime? (6+ years) well you add more content after about a year. then comes the question of power creep OR constantly gear swapping(meaning replacing your gear constantly because you get better stuff every year). how do you make old gear still worth it and new gear also worth it?
I feel like Classic WoW is a perfect example of this, it’s fun, leveling is great, endgame is great… but then what? add more content right? (new zone, more story, more gear, more endgame content) but then… then we are power creeping, or constantly swapping gear every year…. then the level becomes too high… then they have to add more content because you are all bored again… and then people complain the leveling is too much. Then you have Retail WoW. this has shown in other games as well, Destiny 2 deleted half its game, because it was boring, no one played it, and there was too much new content to make playing old stuff worth it. ESO hasn’t had as long a life but it had the same dilemma at one point, luckily they have Champion Points to fix the leveling issue, but now they suffer with constant gear swapping, every new expansion your old gear gets banked or destroyed and your new gear gets put on.
the simple fact is, a ever expanding, rewarding, MMO is just impossible to make. it will get boring, or it will become *too much*.
The perfect timing for a reset was after Legion Expansaion.
Agree. Legion should've marked the end of WoW and the announcement of WoW 2.
I beg to differ,WoW 2 is starting at Cata,changing the old world in favour new storyline
There's so much to track that will kill you or a teammate in arena that it becomes tedious to "manage" all the time and people don't want to play.
what if you just make the glad rewards like mounts and such account wide so they only need 1 character to do it then make it percentile based and make glad gear more pvp focused and have that be character specific
They do have gladiator mounts account wide, along with tabards, illusions, and armor if you have the same class. About the only thing that isnt is the title in itself.
The key to great MMORPG games nowadays is to Make games simple in terms of spells and rotation, implement killing storyline quests, Character progression needs to be rewarding at every milestone but not necessity, community feeling, and absolutely no pay-to-win mechanics.
1. Spell variance and rotation: 4-5 spells at max and if there are more then make the player choose 5 out of 15 spells and perform a unique combination of damage ( complimentary spell tree)
2. Story and Quest: Every single gamer enjoys the great storyline of the game and quests should be the medium of that storytelling. Quest reward should be exp + some currency which can be spent on item shop in that zone so that every player has the ability to choose rewards they like.
3. Character progression: Progression should never be linear. Providing different progression branches like Maxing out the Blacksmithing profession would reward players with quest-like experience, new spells, and items that are not tradable but have similar power levels as other players who would just like to do quests and buy items from reward points.
4. Community feeling: Make world events available from level 1-max levels. rewards of world events are tied to event participation via how much damage is done to the boss, healing done to the team, or utility provided by some profession-related skills during the fight. Damage, healing, and all other factors are scaled so that a level 10 player's 2k damage is equal to the level 40 player's 8k damage. This way every player is able to participate in world events and the whole player base of the game has the same level playing field when it comes to world events.
5. No pay-to-win mechanics: Sell appearance, sell mounts (only available when you have base mount), sell voice packs, sell environment packs, sell texture pack of game assets, and many more stuff that does not have an impact on the game in any way but those who enjoy the game and want to customize the game according to their taste.
These are just rough ideas and I'm sure companies can invest in good game developer resources to fine-tune it so that the game is always welcoming and engaging for every player. Brand new or 10-year veteran.
I’m not a huge PvPer but I agree 100% with what asmon says about being able to flex on people. Back in vanilla etc when you saw someone in a main city with full rank 14 gear or similar you stopped and looked at them because you respected it. And you knew that you would probably not be able to beat them in a fight.
There needs to be a gap between the people who commit and those who do it casually.
100%, it's all epeen, always has been
I havent played wow since Legion. Which expansion did the flexing motivation stop in your opinion?
I wish it was like back in Tbc, you could tell a gladiator player from a mile and honestly it was great to see that and knew this was an amazing pvp player who totally deserved it cuz it shows on the gear and mount etc. Did they really change that?
I can doubtless say, heal isn’t fun. Neither dungeon nor raid. People step into colorful circles except of the ones from their healer…
You can spam heals out so that everybody lives. If the try is over people say typically 2 things. You didn’t heal enough or you as the healer didn’t do enough dmg…
Every m+ affix feels like another punishment for the healer because the rest of the pack didn’t feel to play mechanics…
On top of all ist absolute antifun that a tank outheals you.
Tanks should get more tanky with their abilities not heal themselves.
There needs to be a happy medium. Retail WoW is too complex but then you look at Diablo 4 for instance and its actually boring having only 5 buttons with 3-5 modifiers on each skill. I feel like Wrath or Legion were kind of where the game needs to be complexity wise.
Classic WoW is the best medium, before resilience it felt like your abilities really did some damage from the get go, and every class only had like 1 to 3 buttons to press to do some damage so it was easily accrsible to learn.
@@quetz6335 yeah pressing 3 buttons for 10 min on a raid boss or spending the majority time auto attacking in pvp is really fun and engaging game design
yep! legion and after that they gave up
@@mad1559it is fun, even the auto attacks matter.
Classic is a boring mess artificially stretched out to milk you for subcription time. Without the countless kill 8 mobs and loot this item from them which is a low drop rate you would be finished in a few weeks. They turn easy quests into an hour long boringsession just because this mob does not want to drop the quest related items.@@quetz6335
The best part he said; "I want people to play".
Personally, I was relatively active in PVP during WOTLK & BFA because it was a fun thing to do when I was done with PVE activities or when my m+ team was not available. Nowadays even though sometimes I feel like queuing for arena I quickly decide not to go for it because it is way too complicated, and there are zero rewards I can get from PVP that I can use for PVE, so why bother?
Totally agree with Asmon on this 1... Blizz delete half the buttons. I dont fully agree with the addons but Blizz has to figure out a way to drastically reduce their need. Weakauras should be no means be a requirement to do any content at any skill level.
You’ll never have wow be as good as it once was. Streamers have made sure of that. Everyone play how they play they don’t figure things out on their own ever since meta was a things these types of games dropped drastically in enjoyment.
ya most don't want to admit it tho
This is the closest to a fully accurate answer as anything people are posting in the comments and certainly more than in the video. thanks for this post. On top of this, people are playing games that are much different than the 2004 core of WoW. Even people who are playing competitive games they can go hardcore on are likely a dwindling population with the games fitting into this category competing for attention, which there will inevitably be a loser in that battle. People are willing to switch gears to other games, different games, and games with less demands on the players time per session and overall.
I disagree. I didn’t understand one bit of WOW when i started playing and I didn’t google anything. Its such a mess/spaghetti of systems and on top of it, nothing outside of the current expansion matters! Its bad
Thats stupid to say. Even back in the Day People already had Guides/Entire TV Shows in some Countrys and other sources of information. Even if everyone will use only Guides thats better then todays Game Design of new MMO's. Just look at Runescape. Less but longer Quests in the entire World. Challenging but simple.
It still works there to this day and you always have a sense of progression, items you remember wich have Value etc. Streamers have nothing to do with it. Its how they design there Game and the Systems they put in.
@@your-username-here2308 I’m not gonna try to convince you that tv and guides didn’t come even close to the influence of todays streamers. Diablo 2 you would join games and would get to struggle and figure things out with other players. Now days it’s how do we get through this the fastest and if your not using mods and the current meta you get kicked…for me that’s why MMOs are trash. I understand if you think the quest are garbage and wouldn’t argue with you on that. I just refuse to play in a world where everyone just copies the fastest streamer.
I think the perfect ending to WOW's story was the death of The Lich King Arthas. We need a really free server with Wrath of the Lich king without subscription.
Questing as a hero made sense as long as we did it as mortals and didn't kill dragons and gods in 1 hit.
Cataclysm was a complete dead end. Mist Of Pandaria, on the other hand, was a very creative and varied surprise.
It's true, the pandas stung my eyes a bit. But it was innovative in every other way. Everything that followed was just unimaginative and undemanding theft of money.
RIP WoW, RIP Blizz.
yeah i like cata so i dont mind that classic is there right now but i 100% agree there should be BC and wrath classic servers
Everyone talking about the Asmons commentary and I’m just glad he said Papa Johns because I was thinking the exact same thing…..9:00
TBC, WoTLK and Cata were peak time of WoW. Im happy that I stopped after that. Havent had any regrets of returning back to retail.
Watching this playing Ashran, really never won (kill the other faction boss). Finally got a raid leader that took charge, we followed his lead and crushed the other side. I really wish there was more ways to commend someone for excellent plays. Really shame, seems so basic and would increase engagement/good behavior
was it zado by chance?
PvP is just not that good in wow anymore, its really just that simple. some exsample reasons as to why it is now just bad are
1: the game has got faster over the years but CC has mostly remained the same, a 6 second stun now is not the same as a 6 second stun in legion or WoD or prior.
2: the new class additions with every other expansion - every time a new class enters the game it inevitably ends up stealing identity from other classes and devalues that classes identity. Monks are just an agro version of rogue for comps that wanna run a demonhunter or DK instead of a mage, the monk identity can be summed up as 'speedy rogue'
3: Dev's unwittingly ruining PvP with bad new passive or enhancements to class effects, great example is how DKs can now death grip back to back 2 times- imagine being a warlock and outplaying the death grip with a portal just to find out he can spam the ability again.
4: all of the above makes new players even LESS likely to get into pvp making new blood in the pvp roster hard to come by, if I as an experienced returning player can't always understand what is going on how can we expect new players to wanna get interested in it too
All in all, I think for PvP to become popular, it has to become cleaner. Players want the spells they cast on there bar to matter, to feel rewarded for good use of CC and like how they play matters. right now it feels like tracking 500 procs and rotating though a few small sequence of combos is about 99% of pvp and that isn't enticing for anyone
I would also bring back the artifact mechanics of legion, where your weapon was set and was your artifact, I would only add the capacity to transmog your artifact.
If you look at overall complexity of wow, it basically means if you want to play at any competitive level, you basically need a ton of addons etc. As much as I have done all that, and it makes things obviously way more efficient, you've gotta ask yourself in the end, why is all this stuff really needed to just be competitive in any way? The game basically forces you to min max to a crazy degree. Back in vanilla you didnt need that many addons at all. The game just has too much bloat, it does need a big reset to just simplify the game.
28:19 if you have good, obtainable rewards from ranked bgs, people will play them. This would also allow games with 10x10 dps or 1-2 heal x 8-9 dps which would allow the excess supply of dps to get into meaningful games.
I think at the end of the day, players want to play meaningful games where they are building towards a reward, like a duelist enchant or glad mount. If these are available in a game mode that allows for more players, people will play it.
In a game mode that allows for more players and qs under 30 minutes*
This. I feel like I lose most BGs anyway. But if the wins I get can give me some rating and conquest? Count me in.
I'm a 446 Destro Warlock with 2634 rating (been playing DF for about two months) and I find it almost impossible to get accepted into pugs. If I wasn't in a guild I'd probably be stuck at 2200 forever.
In Legion I rerolled a few times but never really had a problem getting my weekly 20 done, I could join a pug whenever I wanted regardless of class.
So my main issues with the game right now are class balance in 5-mans and the M+ rating system. I think that the only thing that should be shown in-game is your highest key completed, so that weekly chest groups prob won't bother to look up your rio, but push groups will. That'd be ideal.
I have very few complaints about DF otherwise, I'm really enjoying the expansion.
All I want is crazy, non-stop WPVP with good gear, even if I'm a solo or casual player.
Now that I can actually buy top WPVP gear and play solo, everyone is flying around out of reach or unflagged.
Just imagine the game exactly as it is right now, but with no flying mounts and forced PVP on PVP servers! would be 1,000 times better.
We need at least a PVP island with no fly mount, pvp on always, and many useful things on it for people to have a reason to go there.
So Ashran
@@iv9ry I don't know how the original Ashran worked, but now it's just a BG like Av.
That island on the MP expansion is a better example i know, world boss, quests, wpvp, no flying, everyone flag, that fun, but with reachable gear for everyone instead of raiders going around 2-3 shooting everyone.
I want the feeling of wpvp and not a bg, and gear should be available for all; if you lock gear, what is the point for the rest?
Try arenas with me, they said. I need a healer partner, they said. After a chain of getting cc’d and decimated in less than a second i realised there’s no way to learn this thing. No wonder there’s no healers.
Also in retail not knowing your rotation perfectly and then also not performing it perfectly makes your damage garbage. In wotlk classic i only had to look up a rotation very rarely when i felt like i am missing something because most stuff was so intuitive i had a breeze, and even then doing some errors doesn’t punish your output as hard. I could respec and learn in a few minutes, but in retail i would level up the same class 3 times to understand wtf is going on, and then new patch comes up and boom your rotation changed completely, now you get 3 more buttons to press to perform at least decently. Good luck finding new keybinds!
The problem is the new player experience. I never played WoW and then picked it up in shadowlands and started playing. I would let people know I was new before starting and most people were like whatever but then I would get kicked for dying to some mechanic I didn’t understand. I finally got to max level then I was confused on how to gear from there. It was a mess. I had to watch a bunch of videos and essentially do homework to learn how to play a game. Now I’m KSH and a mythic raider but their were so many quit moments in between that it’s a miracle that I made it to a point where I enjoy the game. I found a good guild and some people that were willing to work with me to get better. WoW needs a reset to get rid of this elitist pompous population cause anyone that tries to do more then the boring ass leveling the game has to offer is most likely going to quit.
Isnt it like that in almost every game? I think that being new player in games like Path of exile, Escape from tarkov, League of legends and so on is equally painfull
@@Dhgvvgh In POE and Escape from Tarkov the highest level of content PvE wise can be done solo where as mythic + and raiding requires a group to complete. League of Legends is PvP which is always gonna be more toxic than PvE. The argument you are making has the feel of comparing apples to oranges
Ye but that makes it worthwile. I dont think gamedesings changed, the perspective to games has changed because everybody has the mindset of an unsatisfied consumer. Everyone wants to have an easy time to play the game but want to be able to dominate the game as someone who invested 3 years in learning every shit of it. and so on. just bitching people everywhere.
@@KeleGel Yup, thats totally true. Peoples want to be absolute beasts in every game they touch, but they dont want invest time to learn games
25:58 Haven't played for ages. But as someone that always played healer, it's sad to see if it's really true that it's worse for healers in pvp. And seeing comments they should skip healing for it altogether too... If there is no feeling of skill expression, that's not good at all. The feeling of making the right decision on the right skill at the right time and pulling it off is so great. I'd 'tank' a few rogues for that as a trade off haha. If that's not there, yea, why go there. I'm still holding back to give it another try. But who knows 😄
I recently had the idea about what if they did an updated azeroth and essentially take our characters and put them in a new timeline. You keep all your stuff and you can go back to "old WoW" but they remake the old world to start with and redo the storylines of vanilla-wrath making changes to some story elements that could be done better in retrospect and also the new tech available to them. after wrath they can go in any direction with it.
ive played wow since MoP and never really done arenas. I tried this season for dragonflight and it feels terrible trying to get in to. Hard to find people, people leave the group after one or two losses, etc. Tried to do solo shuffle but id have to wait 15-20 mins in queue for an equivalent amount of time in the match. at that point its not worth it when I have limited time I can play.
Surely the art style overcomes all flaws!
Came back after 13 years and tried retail, I am enjoying it so far personally, but that's because the days of hardcore playing are over, so I just got to level 60 and now casually farm old raids and do quests for fun.
They remove stuff -> REEEEE THE GAME IS TOO SIMPLE
They put back stuff -> REEEEE THE GAME IS TOO COMPLEX
Gamers can just never be satisfied...
I didn't bother with Dragon Flight.
1. The familiar UI is different and reset. Although better overall, it pissed me off.
2. The talents changed. Again, although better overall. There's A LOT and i don't care about going through it all.
3. There's too many buttons once I'm specced. I don't know what to press in the right order and i don't really care.
4. Once that is sorted I level to 70.
5. Then i have to figure out where to go for the current patch. I will most likely end up on a new zone/island and grinding rep or rare spawns until I "finish the game" because:
*A I don't want to farm Mythic+, it's complex and busy.
*B I don't want my time wasted in raids. I have 1 maybe 2 hours to play a night if i'm lucky.
*C Fuck PVP. I just die and have no idea how/why.
*D Farming mogs and old raids if fun for a bit, but overall is annoying. It's especially frustrating when you get to fights like Spine, Eonar or KJ for example.
*E No matter what I do, it will all be reset in a patch or next expansion so who cares
I legit log in to kill time between everyday life. And I'm a huge fucking idiot because every time I do it i hope I get a slight inkling of fun and lost in the game and it simply hasn't happened for several years. @AsmonTV
My favourite part of wow in its entirety. MoP pvp. It felt sooo good to be blood dk breaking 1mil health, grab an orb of power and take on 10 people at once. There was just something about the way classes were balanced that allowed them to shine. Boomkins, Monks, Shamans.etc all were able to have there OP moments and make the experience enjoyable
yeah, but imagine those 10 people facing you. Probably not all that fun for them to be beaten by just one person.
@@urazz7739 what's the point of playing king of the hill with a power orb if it didn't make you op?
I played an mmo years ago where u couldnt just use your pve gear in pvp because of a specific stat that they introduced. It was called resistance and made u take less dmg from other players, only the pvp gear had this stat so it was absolutely essential for end game pvp. A cool side effect was that it was good gear for solo dungeon runs as well.
(Idk if wow has a similar stat like this, I'm a complete noob still)
My honest opinion as a new player is if they want to keep new people around the game needs to be mechanically easier to jump in and play with more focus on casual fun gameplay and fun things to do out in the world in zones for exploring (delves seem to be a step in the right direction)
Im personally really enjoying the game it has really interesting lore and places to see. But there is way to much unessisary bloat i agree that a reset/overhaul is needed for sure
Of course it is. Lower the bar, shove it right into the ground. No one should ever have to rise to the occasion. In fact, let's just get rid of dungeons altogether! Sign in, get loot! Hell, the game should play it's goddamn self huh? Fucking blue ribbon hugbox baby generation.
@@matthewlawton9241 I could give 2 shits less about the loot. I just want to have fun playing the game, hence why I said more focus on more fun content to do in the world. Right now the game basically power levels you to get you into endgame to grind raids and mythic dungeons yippee that's exciting.
I'd like to see a Solo Rated (Not Ranked) Battlegrounds - Something similar to the way Classic PvP used to be with Military Titles - The more you play the more rating you get, the higher title you get, but if you take time off and don't play; more so consequtive time off, the higher the rank you are, the more/faster that rating diminishes.
With that in mind, I think it would be worth giving rating points per Battleground per player's individual contribution and more dependant on objectives:
1. You get rating points not just based on a win or loss (participation), but you also get rating based on KBs, HKs, Damage Done, Healing Done, Points Captured/Defended, Territories Gained/Held, Flags Grabbed/Carried/Captured/Returned/Damage or Healing done to FCs/EFCs, Resources gathered etc...
2. You get a moderate amount of rating points based on something your Class/Spec/Role excels at, but higher amount of rating based on something your Class/Spec/Role doesn't excel at.
Example #1: A rogue that should be good at stealing flag caps in AB or getting KBs in team fights will get a moderate amount of rating points based on the success (or attempt) of these objectives but doing so often will gain consistent rating. Obviously capturing a point in AB will net a higher rating result as this considerably affects the outcome of a win/loss.
Example #2: An Afflock or Boomkin that does wide spread damage to the enemy team will generate moderate/light rating consistently (based on overall damage done or HKs made) but doing so over the course of a match will put pressure on the enemy team and therefore gain strong rating by the end of the match.
Example #3: Healers rating based on healing done, healing done to FCs, healing done to team mates attacking EFCs, etc... generate moderate rating, but if a healer managed to capture LM in AB because they took some downtime to attempt a cap instead of heal, and were successful, then this should net a very high amount of rating.
You get the idea, moderate/light rating based on what you're meant for/good at (diminishing on some objectives/attempts), and high amount of rating based on what you're not meant for/bad at.
3. Maybe instead of just a flat rating points gain for a win and none for a loss, maybe give a small amount for a win and half of that for a loss as a base rating points reward, but based on a win or loss, a win multiplies your overall BG contribution rating points gained by 1.5x - 1.7x and a loss by 1.0x that way, even a person that managed to carry their losing team with high contributions will get enough rating points that would compete with the low/mid/high-tier players that won.
4. Grand Marshall titles (as an example) would require you playing consistently everyday or every second day in order to achieve that level, whereas you loss titles/rank/points faster over time the more inconsistently you don't play. This way people can grind out the top gear by time spent and contributions made for wins rather than being stupid good at the ridiculous complexity of the current game state.
Leave the Gladiator Ranks as Ranks and for Arena.
Boredom can be fixed if they implemented all pve trinkets to scale up and work in arena and actually be useable. There are 1000s of unique trinkets
I always did not understand the WoW system of making a new patch/addon and basically crossing off the parts of the game which came before that. That never made sense to me when TBC came out and whole of the Classic became obsolete world for painfully leveling your new char.
You are 100% right. Personally I cba to learn how retail works. Classic is just simple and that’s the beauty of it
I cba installing 500 pve addons that show me how to quest in order to play classic
Exactly the opposite for me, I fell asleep playing classic, legit nothing to do besides leveling
classic is fkn boring man
@@xatan17 true
@@xatan17 False
I think it’s be interesting if there were world events. Like you know that plague glitch that had people cooperating to stop the spread like imagine something like that except less aggressive, maybe even a boss that travels around the world, it stays in one area for a while and then moves on. Imagine swarms of people travelling from one place to another. Idk I may just be dumb here but that stuff sounds interesting.
is not about the reward it's about the gameplay and the meaning to be someone in this world (wow)
Completely agree, and statistically you can see the examples of bloat and needed trims with classes and specs. Take a look at the active WoW population statistics, the majority (30%~) of players the last couple expansions were BM hunters and other simplified classes/spec (not including some meta cases) because not only are people not having fun playing certain specs, but they've become 9-14 button messy/clunky rotations with little player understanding to the point they're using rotation helpers instead of knowing what to do intuitively. A friend pointed out his holy priest has 15 buttons he can have up to in "useful" abilities, but that's unapproachable to most players and excessive/redundant in healing requirements (not to mention "meh" holy priests as they sit right now). The game does need debloating and honestly it does need new blood entering the game. We've got players in their 30's, 40's, heck 50's and higher playing the game but rarely does the demographic seem like teens and 20's are playing the game. The population decline is real, the mechanics of the game are a real problem, we cater to a top 10% of players to keep them from being bored but the others are left modding the game to try and keep up with what should be built into the game to understand.
Reset it all, update all assets and textures, etc and make it the 20 year anniversary addition: "World of Warcraft 2.0"
Id rejojn on these changes:
- Ranked random 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 and battlegrounds with separate MMR to organised.
- Honour gear matches heroic, conquest matches mythic raiding.
- Remove the need for 100 different addons and design them in to the UI.
Id rejoin WoW on those two changes alone and grind out PvP as you dont require set schedules 2 to 3 nights a week and strict guild rules around it, would give so much freedom.
the game has become too complex in many aspects, It's hard to know what to do next to progress with the character, even aiming just at pvp or pve, and there are too much systems overlapping from the last expansions, just logging and deciding what to do next becomes tiring.
Imagine if PvE content had multiple difficulty settings suited for people who prefer simpler mechanics and gameplay.
even crafting is too complex now that casuals arent even bothering with it
I stopped playing seriously in Cata due to big life changes and wasn't able to get back into the game until recently - but I just can't get back into DF because I log in and it just feels overwhelming. I log in, update my UI, do two quests, and I'm just not feeling it. I did the first zone, then flew around on my dragon for a while, then logged out and haven't been back since.
For me, I just want to play my druid through new content. I don't want to re-learn how to play my class every expansion because there's been a complete talent overhaul (AGAIN). There have been a lot of good QoL changes but overall I feel like it's just World of Systemcraft. I guess it's hard to balance between people who want things to be simple and people who feel that complexity is content. If there's no complexity people complain things are too easy. If there's not a million things to do in the game, people complain that they're bored. I don't know what the answer is.
It won't happen but I DESPERATELY want WoW2.0. Cherry pick the better QoL stuff but start over without the bloat, the currencies that you use to buy currencies that you use to buy currencies, the borrowed power that you lose next time there's a major patch, the weirdass broken timelines that break immersion. I want to get in on the ground level, where everything is new to everybody, and we all learn together.
At this point, DF is free with my Classic subscription, not the other way around. For now, I'm kicking around as a classic Andy. I'm a dinosaur, I know. If I do get bored with classic eventually, that'll likely finally be the end of my subs entirely.
I've really wanted to get into WoW for nearly a decade, but my friends were maxed and the solo experience was beyond a joke. Just looking at the list of addons I HAD to use for the game to be playable nearly put me off itself. I REALLY tried to get into it, but it's as if the game is designed for players who already know everything, and the toxicity was unbelievable. That's when I tried FF14 and still loving it 2000 hours in.
8:54 They literally did that in BfA and the community complained until it was corruption and trinkets were fixed, in Legion they regulated gearing in PvP and people also didn't like that, PvPers in this community haven't got the slightest clue of what they want they just know what they don't want and I think that's part of the problem, how do you enact positive change in a community that gives you so little feedback when you've tried almost everything to please them? Also and btw I agree all gear should be usable in PvP and vice versa, that'd be the only reason why me as a PvEer in this game would even consider PvP otherwise you have to farm honor gear and that's not something I will ever be willing to do.
Unpopular opinion, but I think they should remove any and every form of rating from the game. Remove RIO, remove arena and rbg ratings etc. WoW isn't an e-sport and it shouldn't try to be. The reason people love Classic so much is because the rewards are basically obtainable by everyone. Rating and competitiveness make an mmo worse and breeds a toxic environment that is daunting for players to get into. Just make the game better and people will play it for fun. Crazy concept, I know.
I tried to come back to the game for dragonflight after skipping shadowlands. I tried my resto druid, frost mage, and enhance shaman. All of them are just soooooo complicated now, I don't understand what I'm supposed to be doing.
So, Asmon, I agree with you. I've played for 12 years, and this was the first time I stopped because my class wasn't fun to play
Same situation here, blood dk, mm hunter, ret pally, resto shammy. None are fun. Switched to classic lmao
@@jamiezannino7727 yeah, I'm having fun with wrath
I love watching asmongold talk like he’s a serious pvp player after getting carried by R1’s and playing like a 1600 rated player.
Okay Mr 1800 player
Boosters actually HELP create more players in the game. You buy a boost for AOTC you get invited to raids now. Buy boosts through M+ you can actuallly get invited and play the now. Ive done it before on new characters when i quit for a while went on to join a guild and clear mythic raids, quickest and easiest way to get me actually able to play the game and be invited.
we need 10 man mythic raids!
Yup.
No we need 40 ppl mythic raids ,ppl need to be punished
@@UltraRambo even 20 is way to much. It is more epic and fun yes but most of the people have the isue with Not enough raider or they fill Noobs in just for Hit the 20 member and cant Beat the the raid 😅. If i can play with my friends in 10 man Mythic raid is down 100%
13:36 you’re wrong here. Glads/pvpers don’t care about having good gear for pve. Also, you are wrong about players just wanting to roll other players. We can literally do that now in bgs even with similar gear, the benefit of gearing easily is much better and more important to pvp than being able to stomp people in pub bgs
we went through a prune and got talent calendars. we get talent trees back people cry the same way... i dont want to lose the talent trees they are great and the game complexity is great. players should be able to play at a competitive level by choosing other talents/ less abilities.
Less complex more players. WoW Classic proves that.
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxism It really doesn't. No offense meant too. There is a big misconception that Classic has a higher player count which is objectively not true. Classic does have a more active content creator scene due to HC and what not, however, the numbers in game are no where close to retail at all. Lets also not forget about those who play both versions of the game too
@@VermilionWake Which game would attract more new players? A less complicated version of the game like Classic or a more complicated version of the game like Retail?
@@ItsAllCulturalMarxism Depends on the game, as well as the intended audience..but most importantly, the game that can offer both versions (complex/simple) is best. There are people that love depth in their video games and its the main drive of their enjoyment.., on the other hand, some others loath it, they may as very well be playing the game as a form of escapeism from RL pressures etc
@@VermilionWake based on the graphs done by many creators its gone down hill after Cata. The game got more complex thereafter. I think some complexity is okay but not core to the game play.
I enjoyed Dragonflight for a bit but it gets super exhausting having to keep up with all the little things you need to do to stay "current". So many currencies, reps, other tokens, blah blah. It just gets to be too much to hold in your head and it's easier to just quit than try and ensure you are up to date. You can't log out for more than a few days without starting to feel like you've really fallen behind.
dude legit thinks the reason people aren't playing the game is that they aren't gaining enough arena rating
I’d love a catalyst event that wipes WoW back to the classic era but the problem remains, what happens to everyone’s hard work over all those years?
That alone cancels any wipe
I'd love for casual play to be able to mix in with more hardcore play. I shouldn't have to have 5 different ability bars and memorize combos like it's Street Fighter. What if it was like Fable and you can just level individual skills? Maybe I just wanna put all points into fireball and have an epic fireball!
Then find another game cuz its never been that way and it won't be that way.
Retail has its upsides. There is a lot to do in the endgame. Mythic grinding is fun and Doing solo que arena is good to. However it's too much and so saturated. The combat mechanics for retail is saturated. The fantasy element is saturated, and the lore personally is boring. Everything is too fast paced and the game feels more like an arcade version of classic wow.
Classic has it's downsides as well but what I do enjoy about classic is the game mechanics is more slower and less "Button smashing" where your rotating between 15 moves like you do in retail. I enjoy fighting a mob and they sometimes dodge or miss or parry. The combat is more slow and the gearing is slower yet more rewarding. Doing a dungeon and getting a sick blue axe is a great feeling while in retail the feeling of getting a new piece of gear is meaningless.
You have good points but awful ones too.
Yes, there is a lot to do endgame and not just end-game, Dragonflight REALLY feels like an expansion turned up to eleven; It's PACKED with content.
WotlK is probably a 1/4 or 1/3 of Dragonflight's content, that's how huge and how well Blizzard did this time.
There's a plethora of options when it comes to stuff to do, im not sure any other games offers as much.
The combat isn't saturated; that's bullshit, if it was, it would have died as a whole a long time ago, and it's been alive for almost TWENTY years, so clearly, people like it, because it still doesn't feel old or clunky.
It is true everything feels fast, which makes dopamine hits less relevant since the element and feel of triumph is behind, but the funny thing is, this is casuals fault 100%.
They want easier and faster things because of queues and their real life, but then the game becomes too easy, hollow, with barely any memorable moments or challenging situations, well, that's what you get.
People are also super entitled and want a reward for everything.
The reward for pvp shouldn't be other rewards, the reward for doing pvp is doing pvp, and winning pvp.
The lore isn't boring, that's just you edgy kids who need a villain with wings and horns to feel something.
The dragon aspects is old as fuck lore and it's REALLY cool to see the island and their way of living.
These beings were created by the TITANS, so they're not something weak and puny.
@@fistofram5526 I didn't say the combat was bad... you just assumed I did. I said it's bloated which it is and some people like that the bloated mechanics. My 2 irl mates that still play retail love it. However to a lot of people the combat is boring. And I already said that dragon flight has a lot more to do in the end game. However more people are opting for classic over retail. Even some Glad pvper's are preferring classic pvp over retail and that's because Personally The combat SUCKS for most people. Even though dragon flight has more content and systems that are fun people are still quitting on mass and that's because the game is way to bloated.
Wrath of the lich king which is meh i can still get quick arena ques on a monday morning while my two irl mates bitch about 10 minute ques at 1700 lawl.
It's crazy how people prefer a 18 year old game that is dated in so many ways over a new game that has 50 times more to do that classic. People would rather level through westfall for the 20th time than play endgame retail wow.
I agree, the combat in retail is very bloated and while I do enjoy it, I like the slower style of combat that earlier versions of the game had as well, both have their own ways of being good.
And getting my sick ass whirlwind axe on my warrior felt way more rewarding than getting any item in current wow, except for maybe getting my Ash'kandur this tier, which even that pales in comparison to the feeling of winning an Ash'kandi in BWL.@@imnackeredsirnackered948
@imnackeredsirnackered948 I appreciate your comment. You do explain the reasons why you stand by your opinion and not just parrot-around things that make little sense (as it has been widely done by people who have not given retail a shot or may not have played in ages, yet demand from the game to adhere to them).
I often try to not comment on things in such discorse because of how unfortunantely sour a discussion turns when its discussed, but since this case is different (and I promise you I hold no bias, I'v played the game since its inception, and do play both versions, so here goes):
Your point in regards to how fullfulling gearing up in terms of loot feeling rewarding is true, it indeed does feel better in classic due to how impactful an upgrade can be, and it feels very rewarding, but that does not mean there is none of it in retail too :) (just not as iconic in some ways though, maybe).
When it comes to how fast or overwhelming things might look for retail, i really suggest taking in the learning curve the same way you do in classic, as in, there is no need for you to hyper rush your button-presses nor perfect your class mechanics down to the tee right from the get go. I absolutely assure you that the slower route into understanding the class is well worth it and the pay off where you notice your self improving at it is absolutely satisfying.
The Lore part is a a tough one, not many may find it interesting due to various reasons...but more specifically, how badly it got during the past two expansions before DF. I personally do think its not as bad as many make it because of both preference as well as being very kept-up with it. In a way, the more deeply you dive into the lore, the more you get out of it and other nerdy speculation/lorecrafting things ;p.
If you need any help with your wow journey just let me know in these commentst, maybe I could be of help
@@VermilionWake I don't want changes to retail I am more inline of wow going in two directions. Retail and classic+
With classic+ the game can see changes and progress that keep in line with the classic vibe. Blizzard however cannot turn classic+ into retail.
The thing's I like about classic wow is that in most ways its easy but in other ways its hard (But not complex)
Like levelling is hard but it's not complex and anyone can do it it's just that your journey is tough.
What I love about classic/tbc and wrath is the mechanics are not bloated although in some cases it starts to bloat in wrath.
What I love about classic also is each gear upgrade has a lot of weight to it even while levelling.
Dragonflight did well with professions but classic professions are still awesome, fun and very important.
Classic is a more slower paced, chill and has a homely feel to it which does need upgrades and new things added to it.
Retail however is bloated, stressful and there is just too much.
This is why mop has been fun for me for so far. I have constant progressive upgrades. Capped gear on one main. Started on another. I get almost no progression in current retail
For a lot of this, blizz needs to look to FFXIV. Their pvp has a different spell list, which plays very simply, has some fun utility and a lot of survivability, but really few spells and not much cc at all. Also a super cool ending button (limit break) that gives you a bunch of flavour.
Im sorry but ffxiv pvp is complete dogshit compared to wow, crystalline conflict was neat for a season or two, but the blatant win trading, not being able to find queues off season, not being able to play with friends etc. The last thing wow should do is emulate anything ffxiv pvp related
People literally never group up in modern wow even if doing the same quests anymore it's so sad it's become a singleplayer game for so many people since nobody wants to actually interact with players anymore when getting online friends is one of the best things ever
Thats why i like Runescape, everyone uses Guides in that game, but they are not the Problem, its that the Game just dosent require outside of Raids to interact with anyone. If i never get forced by the Game, why should i ? There is no resone to do so.
The fact they are just re-releasing Wow vanilla speaks there is a problem a reset can address
Arena and the AWC ruined PvP in WoW. Arena is a mini-game and PvP should of never been balanced around it. MMO PvP is supposed to be balanced on large scale objective battles. PvP in this game went down hill when Arena gear became BiS and balance around it happened. Want great PvP in WoW? The majority of PvP players don't do Arena so focus on BGs, Brawls, Epic BGs and have them have the best rewards. All balance is around them. While I think Esports is a bad idea for WoW I could see an objective 5v5 map however Arena doesn't work and never will.
Man I’ve never even played WoW but this man has a way of making everything interesting