Creation's ability can be used to create spell components with a gold cost. At lvl 14 you have unlimited Hero's Feast; you will never be without a Diamond for Raise Dead; you have the keys to planar travel as you don't have to find a Tuning Rod for Planeshift. This is what makes the class S Tier.
I've been playing descent into avernus so spell components are hard to come by. Being able to cast Greater Restoration without having to worry about where I'm getting diamonds has been so incredibly clutch. And yes, I cannot wait for level 14 and unlimited Heroes Feast!
@@colsenthissell1012 That's one of those things that is up to DM interpretation. Tuning Rods themselves aren't magical but whether the attuned rod is or not is kind of unclear.
Tuning forks would be a situation where the dm should not allow you to create them without proper knowledge of the frequency of that plane but I know that some dms are lax about some of those specific spell components
@@olorin6494 Simple. Just allow it. But you have to go through the process of tuning the rod to whatever plane you need. I mean you can create the item but you still need to have the knowledge to tune it.
The College of Creation suffers from the same thing as an Illusionist: It requires creativity and DM permission. Being locked down by "no" all the time will make this into a waste of time. If you CAN get the right combination of DM and player, this subclass is hard to beat. You become basically an X-Man, creating what you need to solve the problem and help the team. This ability to create isn't exclusive to spellcasting, because you can save you spells for what you cannot create. This is at least A tier - but it need an A tier player and DM too.
Super hero that comes to my mind has to be Green Lantern. Read some Lantern comics. Should really help you with some ideas on what to summon with your creation abilities.
@@matthewparker9276 the way they're phrasing it, it's not the campaign it's the player. which seems a bit odd to me. a creative player is S tier but they're assuming not everyone is creative enough to play it well so it's B tier as a result. I don't like the logic. It's kind of like the same mentality used when someone plays for the first time and asks what they should make as their character and a vet tells them to make a Champion fighter even knowing they wanted to play a wizard. You're selling the players short. If you don't have a healthy imagination, odds are you're not playing DnD anyway.
@@Fektthis well the difference in this case and why B tier work is because it's not just a creative player it require a permissive DM otherwise he could always just shut it down to that doesn't work. as mike said "Being locked down by a no"
That's one of the big things I'm looking forward to when my character reaches 6 (currently just shy of level 5). But it is for limited time unfortunately. But I'm looking forward to using my Performance of Creation to make a platform with crenelations, then making it fly so I can maneuver around the battlefield and fire spells and crossbow bolts then hide behind the battlements!
Exactly. This and the ability to basically use concentration free telekinesis and fly if you need to move objects up to large along with potentially creating spell components raises this class to at least an A in my book. Also, the animated item has reactions for opportunity attacks and can take other actions. So, you can have it use the help action for advantage, and do things like shove an enemy around (+4 to strength). Lastly, depending on your DM's interpretation, you can create food, water, and drink for exploration. Also, I've had instances in early levels where the barbarian's great axe was damaged by a black pudding, so I could make him a replacement until we got to a blacksmith.
had a buddy animate my halflings cart and casted invisibility on it, great for landing on an enemies rooftop, defiantly worth the price of admission for being a creation bard.
@@baristus Good examples. And yeah on the spell components: unfortunately being level 4 means 80gp max value, but next level I'll be able to make that diamond my buddy needed so he could cast Identify!
Here's my solution to "not always having the right thing to create" problem: grab a piece of paper and any time you come up with an idea for something you can create with performance of creation write it down. Any time you feel stuck just look at the list of notes and you'll probably have something on there that can be useful
It's not a magical creation, and is disappears after the duration. Suffering from the UA ruling (like minor conjuration) of not nourishing. You may also need to be able to prepare that feast as well FWIW, which is different than just wanting a lot of food. Many people also say that "if damaged" these things disappear, which sounds weird for armor and such ... but that's how people gimp these classes so they don't have to say "no", they just make them grossly unappealing. In UA clarrication they have people making gunpowder that will function though (if the character knows how to make it) and wheelbarrows, which is pretty huge ... complex chemicals and a machine. Just for the $300gp diamonds and misc nonsense I would take the subclass, its a goto for a lot of things ontop of bard itself. Once you get a list of items catalogs, super fun.
I could cast the fly spell for 10 minutes with concentration, or I could animate a large rug that multiple people could fly on for an hour without concentration. With the same spell slot!
Exactly!!! This is what I do! Also I have the flying rug grapple(18 str) up to huge size creatures with bardic inspiration(x2 rolls) With the creature also hexed(disadvantage on either str or dex checks)
1st thing: You can’t cast animate objects if you don’t have any objects to animate. 2nd: animate a boat and fly around in it. 3rd: team up with an artificer who invents all the crazy contraptions, and recreate them at (sorta)will. S tier bard :)
I did play this class, and had an amazing blast with it. Multi-classed as a Warlock so I could repeatedly burn out Warlock spell slots to create and animate objects more often and easier. Also went Warlock of the Genie and Vessal was a large Ring with hollowed gem. Short rest inside the ring while familiar bird flee around holding it and travelling. Being able to create a barricade wall to give your group large cover, amazing. Being able to settle a bar fight by making one of the tables as an immediate ally and fighting with you and a summon spell, fantastic. Creating a wall to block the only entrance to enemies chasing you, life saving.
@@blank805 I believe this was on my Character Rhamza the Rhyming. 15lvls bars of creation and 5lvls Warlock of the Genie, pact of Chain. This let's you have a chain familiar to speak to, with, through, that can hold your ring and fly, 3rd lvl Warlock slots for burning for your creation and animation bard abilities thay come back on short rest. And all the flavour and power of the bars you'd need while getting the best out of Warlock to mix in. But pact and evocation up to you, and used the pact of chain evocation so your familiar uses your DC for abilities and saving throws
@@blank805 The Genie is an optional Path for Warlock Patrons, inside the "Tasha's Cauldron if Everything" book. It gives es some great abilities like Vessel, to rest inside, extra dmg a turn in attacks, a fire Genie Warlock that can use Fireball, Bringing the whole party in your Genie vessel, or limited wish, and full on wish spell use.
That’s a really good idea, but I don’t know if I would personally allow a temporary item to serve as a material component as a DM, or if I did, maybe just not the ones that are consumable
… and as a DM… if I allow my party to use flour for detect invisibility, then all the intelligence bad guys know the trick and can use it too. This renders invisibility a completely useless spell. I don’t think my players want that. So, no, flour does not work. It’ instantly becomes worn’ and so is invisible too.
i’m on the side of the people in the comments here, but here’s a compromise: it makes for a good *detect* invisibility, not a good *see* invisibility. invisible creatures still leave footprints, meaning you could scatter flour on the floor and see their footprints in the flour like snow. you might also see their imprint on the wall if you throw flour at them, but if they move then you won’t know where they go to. not a bad deal, and if there’s no one there you’ll look paranoid for making a mess.
Creation bards being able to create spell components earns it an A in my book. You can give your party a permanent hero's feast buff,, always have revivify at the ready, components for your party's wizard/sorcerer, etc.
Being restricted to 260 gold pieces of creation before 14th level makes the creation bard's best ability basically powerless for the majority of levels people play the game unless your DM is just taking pity on you. I'd love to play one at 17th level though.
@@benjaminkowal7310 Weeeeeeeell... for some spells like revivify or even more expensive ones sure, but in some cases it says that they use "diamonds" worth X amount of gp, so you could buy a ton of little diamonds and combine them with creation bard's diamonds for cheaper revivify, also, some spells like Arcane lock, Find Familiar, Continual Flame, Identify (it's just one pearl, but it's better if you don't actually expend it) are good uses for that ability before hitting 14th lvl
@@benjaminkowal7310 this is not true, wizards spell components don't cost that much, you can do glyphs of warning at level 10 so if you have downtime just watch your DM die inside. Additionally, animating performance can be used on equipped objects held or worn by enemies. Watch your DM nerf it because they think the class is too overpowered, in exchange barter with them for the ability to be a little bit more creative with your song of creation ability
The creation stuff glows, disappears after a few hours, and you can hear faint music when you touch it. I feel most DMs will can and should just rule you cant create spell components or you can but they wont work for the spell.
Having played this, the Performance of Creation was most useful as a way to overcome environmental hazards. It has saved a life in combat more than once. It's also good to create cover (as long as your DM remembers that cover rules exist).
I love this class primarily for its creative role play facility. I'm not even talking about straight-up utility for solving problems and such, though that is excellent as well. But to give one example of something I did in my recent game: my party was exploring a haunted house for a Halloween-themed adventure, and in one room we were presented with a ghostly scene of a woman giving a little girl a new doll, and then another scene of the doll murdering the little girl, before our big fight against the evil little doll demon. After the fight, I went to the spot in the room where the little girl had died (in the ghostly scene that had played out before us) and used Performance of Creation to create a Lily, and placed it on the floor there in commemoration of her. Sure, I had used up that ability for the day and wouldn't have it for any problem solving later, but it was perfect for role playing my Bard's sentimentality and empathy.
Some hilarious things I've noticed playing as a Creation Bard: - The Dancing Item has the same stats no matter their size. So imagine a baddie just minding their own business and a tiny, animated doll/teapot/whatever just runs up with their 18 strength stat and decks them with that 1d10 + proficiency Force Empowered Slam. - Whatever item you make glimmers and plays soft music when someone touches it. So whatever you make is gonna look glam af. My DM is nice enough that my character gets to pick the music, which has made for some hilarious moments. - Formal wear can easily fit into the gold limit, and it lasts a few hours, so you could theoretically be someone's Fairy Godparent. Or your own. My point being you'll always be ready for a fancy occasion. And I agree, it's always good to ask questions for your DM ahead of time so they wouldn't be put in the spotlight with a question that needs a little more thought. One of the perks of living with my DM, lol. This class has been fun as hell to play, especially since my character's backstory was that he was a con artist before becoming an adventurer.
Taking tiny servant with this class at level 10 is very fun to play and thematically pleasing. Especially when use performance of creation to create items that require the use object option. Telling your animated hammer to place a hunting trap to catch an enemy is a good time
This subclass is perfect for creative players, when my best friend introduced me to DnD on December of 2020 she was playing a Creation Bard and i was playing a Tortle Kensei Monk, we were exploring a dark forest in the middle of the night and i was the only party-member without darkvision yet i had the highest AC of the group so when we were ambushed i had disadvantage and couldn't hit anything yet the enemies couldn't hit me either, she created a glowing mushroom and stuck it onto my Tortle's shell so he could see and kick-ass after a few rounds lol.
Dungeon Dudes: gives Illusionist Wizard an A because it allows for tons of creativity. Also Dungeon Dudes: gives Creation Bard a B because it relies on being creative. Ignores flying mount at lvl 6, and free priceless spell components at lvl 14.
There is a difference between them, mostly cause the core rules of the creation bard, kind of force you to be creative, and you get nothing else. Illusionist wizard, has the opportunity to be creative, but its not mandatory to play that subclass well, cause in the end it is illusions that become real, not literal make something real and you have free reign at level 14
Not to mention how they praised having a new use for bardic inspiration, yet they shit on swords bard, completely ignoring it's 14th level ability. They do this a lot, praising something for fitting into a different niche, like divine soul Sorc as a healing subclass, but just hate on swords bard for making a non-support bard
@@mtldragon3 Well the thing with these is its usually just Opinion, TTRPG's are so different compared to Video Games, cause with Video Games, its not as long running, and you can binge them, TTRPG's are so long running and each campaign being different, that there are too many factors to judge
@@highdie84 of course it's just opinion and its hard to judge them all. I also play ttrpgs so I don't need that explained to me lol. Just stating that their opinions are inconsistent. I don't have to agree with them to enjoy the content either.
I've been waiting so long for this, my Creation Bard only has 2 more sessions left in the campaign lol. I enjoyed it. The inspiration changes were good and my party liked them, especially the skill check and saving throw ones. Creating things came in handy many times, especially because we were Avernus and didn't always have things we needed or an easy way to get them. Most notable uses: free spell components, a spell focus for myself when we lost all our stuff, a silvered sword for the Rogue, a giant watermelon to stave off exhaustion from heat, a giant cake to impress a crazy eladrin, an iron rod to barricade a door, a ton of silver so the Paladin could make a ton of holy water. What I most anticipate is level 14 when I can make the spell component for Heroes' Feast so that we can have one every night. (Also you don't have to use a spell slot the first time you use it.) The Dancing Item is a good way to add more bodies to the battlefield and is a great use of my bonus action. Large items can block off areas. It's also a nice buff to the Rogue's speed. All in all, the class could probably be stronger but I've been happy with it.
Just wanna point this out- animating performance doesn’t say the item has to be not worn/carried, meaning if you fight anyone that uses a weapon, you can animate that weapon and use it against them.
Brillant! Animate an article of clothing or armor while you're at it! Imagine an enemy soldier's boot trying to dance the tango while he needs steady footing.
Yes! When I first read through the PHB four years ago that was the very first idea for a character I had and I realized it wouldn’t work like I wanted. The Carnivale knife thrower
College of Creation is the definition of "Huh, that's neat". At the end of the day, you're still a Bard - you'll never *suck* - but it's nothing that makes you go, "Wow, this is a total game-changer. How did I live without this?"
I was just waiting for this installment. p.s., I feel like this is an S tier subclass, but maybe that's because I'm a niche player. A creative player can do a lot with this. Mega robe of useful things plus a flying carpet/armchair/steel defender plus gravy on the inspiration. It's awesome.
Honestly, I see this class as being very similar to the Illusionist wizard or the trickery cleric. In the hands of a skilled player with a compatible DM, instant S-tier, no questions asked. If either of those levers are out of whack, much less good and potentially unplayably bad. When I think of/look at most of the other S-tier classes, the key thing that enters my head is "idiot-proof". The Totem Warrior, Twilight Cleric, Moon Druid, Battle Master, Vengeance Paladin... these are all classes that can be explained to a newish player in 10 minutes and they're going off and being the most dangerous member of the party. Some of them have an especially high ceiling, but all have a ridiculously high floor. The creation bard on the other hand is the other way around. It has a high ceiling, a low floor, and not much overlap in between.
@@brifox yeah true, idiot proof is a criterion for S tier. I don't play en masse or in adventurers' league with strangers, nor tolerate playmates shutting down fun in a game of imagination, so the real gems for me are found in the B tier stratum. Imagine this subclass in the hands of Joe in shadows of drakkenheim. Oars would be the least of it.
@@brifox I think that is an issue with the S-tier ranking. It does seem to be more about “idiot proofing” than potential. Jeremy Crawford has already clarified some rulings that a stickler DM would have tried to deny you like consumable spell components, or items not explicitly in the handbook. So only a bad DM would make this anything less than S-tier, a lazy or rigid DM will probably turn any s-tier class into whatever ranking they want.
Re: Performance of Creation given the PHB is mentioned to find examples, I wouldn't get too hung up on the modern interpretation of 'object'. Any set of tools is composed of several 'objects'. So creating a rowboat without oars seems like a DM being an obstructionist. Personally, unless my players were being cheeky, I'd err on the side or the generous and magical. A huge object can be 15' x 15' ... so potentially say... a hut. IMO, if a bard wanted to make a hut I'd include things like hearth, bed etc.
In my recent game we wanted to get up to the 2nd floor of a locked building, but no one had a grappling hook... so used Performance of Creation and made one! Useful!
I think you are right, this is the definition of a textbook B tier. In its best environments its absolutely unrivaled, but if its kept in strict confines its good but not overwhelming. Depends hard on player capacity, DM permissions, and campaign setting.
5:40 When you raise the point about the temporary hit points, and not being able to just have them when you want, I look at it rather differently. Just as with the other 2 bonuses added into Bardic Inspiration for this class, it's a way of ameliorating your potential for failure. It's about knowing that, "even if I fail this throw, it won't ALL be bad, I'll get a few temporary hit points to make it hurt less. Sort of a consolation prize 😁. And I really think this is well created on the part of Wizards, because it speaks to the essential nature of the Bard class. If there are 2 principles definitive of the Bard, those would be that they are a Jack of All Trades, and that they are all about controlling morale to keep their party on top and their foes second guessing themselves. And the Mote of Creation is an excellent way to breath even more life into your team by giving then just that little bit more leeway in overcoming the tides of fate! If the "long enough lever" can move the world, then this is like putting some chalk on your hands to help you grip that lever.
An important consideration is that animated objects, like the one College of Creation bards create with Animated Performance, can flank an enemy and thus grant both of you advantage.
At level 5+ you could create enough powdered diamond to cast Greater Restoration. If you have a Sorlock in your party that has a divine origin with access to the spell, you can let them chain short rests and you could supply them with the powdered diamond for it. That way, they keep all the spell slots they need for flexible casting.
DM running for a party of six 19th level PCs (starting at 2nd level) including a College of Creation bard and it's been amazing. They've conjured up everything from a car-jack to an army of toy soldiers and siege weapon (animated by the sorcerer). But the limit on the magical nature of the conjured items, and that it doesnt become super powerful until 14th level (when most of the items you want to conjure in a pinch are magical) keeps it nicely balanced.
You can create material components for spells with the lvl 3 feature. For instance: 50gp worth of chalk to cast teleportation circle once you can create any object: make a huge cube of Platinum. 15 cubic feet of Platinum weigh 2050 tonnes. drop that thing on any enemy, goodbye You can animate anything at lvl 6: for example the sword an enemy is holding. Creation Bard is the Cheese Bard.
About the DM shooting your creative ideas down: it really depends on the person. Whenever one of my players brings something up to me that I find cool or clever; I try my hardest to make it work, delaying my own plans if needed so that the player can have their moment. My friend, on the other hand, has in the past woven the narrative in a way that has invalidated my creative plans AFTER I had told him in advance... so, yea. YMMV!
The biggest thing that I think the price restriction being lifted for a bard goes to the utility of making the most useful thing for other classes: expensive material components. Depending on how a DM looks at them, you could create everything you need for those big spells. Heroes feast? Oh here is that gem encrusted bowl. Resurrection? OH HERES A DIAMOND
Counterpoint to spells such as fabricate or animate objects is that those are 4th and 5th level spells, while these are effectively 2nd and 3rd levels spells, which means you can save those higher level spell slots for better spells, or upcasting other spells.
I love the idea of a precarious area like a canyon of some sort and the College of Creation Bard just sing a bridge into existence, or your the longboat you mentioned and so on.
you can create a siege weapon and take 2 levels of artificer and take the repeating shot infusion to create a force ballista or a force cannon that only requires 1 person to use
With this bard I think it really brings Cami-Cat's bard video "Meet my friends" to life. With the dancing objects ability and animate objects I just love the idea of a corrupt, greedy lord being absolutely BTFO'd by his own possessions.
one cool team synergy you can use a large and huge object for is whipping up a large huge weapon and proper size one for a rune knight that has become large or huge. No no matter what the rules is written interpretation says they actually have a proper size weapon for their new status, that’s a possible 3D12 axe with 3-4 extra attacks.
Dungeon Dudes - You can make a cannon Me - Combo with a Druid or Cleric & make a huge cube of Potassium with them using a spell to create/unleash water. Laugh maniacally at the resulting explosion.
@@torinsmith9867 Something like that would certainly be considered in the realms of Alchemy. I mean, how many stories do you hear of wizards or witches or maybe even artificers adding something to water or some other liquid which ends up causing an explosion.
i mean its really good if you ignore the rules... but if you follow them theres like what 3 spells bards get that can benefit from the d6 added and none of them are healing so why even mention that in the ability?
Animating Performance allows the dancing item to take a non-dodge action by the bard spending their bonus action (or co-spending with Bardic Inspiration). This could be the Help action...Your bard could be bardically inspiring an ally (including the Note of Potential bonus) and giving that (or another ally) advantage via their dancing item. That's a LOT for a BA...for an hour without concentration or a spell slot (unless you want to use it for more than one hour per long rest).
As a bard of creation I used the song of creation at level 3 (and yes we did the math) and I used the song of creation in order to make a 5’x5’x5’ brick of granite directly above a hobgoblin. The dm ruled that since it was above the hobgoblin the space was considered unoccupied, the hobgoblin critically failed its dex save and the brick of granite fell and crushed it into jelly with 21,000 lbs of amazingness
I think creating costly spell components is a cool idea since a lot of good spells have costly components and that cost can be lessened or ignored as long as the casting time is shorter than the duration.
Creation bard is so much fun, animating my backpack to avoid climbing, str 18 it can carry my skinny ass bard, and still fight up top. Also what you animate is not limited to things not being carried so animating the enemies weapon thus disarming them and having a new ally is a lot of fun. Once I animated a cauldron of boiling soup and had it grapple enemies trying to dunk them in the soup Maybe not S tier for everyone but amazing for me
It should be said, that with Leomund's Tiny Hut, as long as your cannon and ammo start *inside* the hut, they can have an inpenetrable force bubble and can't be targetted by attacks or spells from your enemies. Add Animate Objects for 10 loading/firing actions and you can rapid fire the cannon, provided you bring your own ammunition.
You gave me an idea. 1. Create a nice weapon. 2. Make an enemy want it. 3.Give to the enemy/let them take it. 4. In battle, create something else so the enemy loses the weapon.
I am going play an eloquence bard with a dip in hexblade warlock. I am also considering a dip in sorcerer as an alternative or in addition to hexblade warlock. I have selected 1/2 elf for the +2 charisma bonus. For feats I will probably take inspiring leader at 4th level and actor at 8th level (or switched). Using point buy I can start out with a 17 charisma, then when I take the actor feat charisma will jump to 18. Actor feat combined with spells like disguise self will be useful at times. I will take a 14 dex if I will dip into hexblade warlock thereby max-min with AC for medium armor, but I will take a 16 dex if the DM does not allow multiclassing. None of my other stat will be less than a 10. The 1/2 elf eloquence bard with a dip in hexblade warlock will be very versatile. Almost never fail will persuasion and intimidation checks. AC=18 (14 dex + breast plate armor, shield) and still be able to move silently with breast plate, if I want to be noisy with half plate I can get an AC of 19. Unlimited eldritch blast, mage hand ,vicious mockery, minor illusion, (possibly later prestidigitation, message, and mend, although I seriously considering taking prestidigitation as a starting cantrip) hex, healing word, sleep, disguise self, detect magic, read languages, etc... Modest use of melee weapons using dex or charisma modifiers etc...
@@JL-gm8gy I'm glad that it is fun. One big advantage for an eloquence bard taking a 1 level dip in hexblade warlock is that he can pick up proficiency in medium armor and shield, therefore with only a point buy expenditure of 14 dex (13+1 racial modifier for half elf) he can get at AC of 18 (10+2+4+2) and still be able to move silently wearing breast plate and shield, or an AC of 19 (10+2+5+2) if wearing noisy half plate and shield. Then there all of the other abilities of the hexblade warlock. Getting eldritch blast (for all warlocks) as a cantrip gives unlimited force ranged magic attacks and means that my character does not need to take thunderwave spell as a bard. etc...
@@JL-gm8gy When I DM a group I have decided that all of the players will use point buy plus 3 extra ability points added anywhere at the end, with no rolling for stats. This will allow characters to start off more evenly, with each character being able to start out with a 20 in one stat (15 +2 racial +3 extra ability points). All characters can also start with 3 levels to allow for easy multiclassing etc... I will ban the artificer class and all typically evil races for characters.
CB: "I could make a whole BOOK with everything I know about that!" Party: "Really?" CB: *creates a large book with "EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THAT" beautifully inscribed on the cover. Passes to the party* Party: "it's blank..."
I love this subclass. My initial first thought about this was Fantasia Sorcerors Apprentice animating a broom, after watching this I almost think about MacGyver which would pair nicely with an Artificer.
You could use this subclass to make an incredibly zany, almost Looney Toons esc vibe, I have a character concept that is a silent film star, who uses his creation abilities for slapstick comedic effect, like making a comedically large mallet, or oversized boxing gloves. I also have a character who is a chef, using his creation abilities to not only summon rare ingredients for his food, but also to animate things like cheese and bread. In terms of flavor, this is up there with Glamour, easy S for flavor.
My favorite concept for the college of creation bard is using the animating performance to animate a bunch of statues to server as your backing band chuck e cheese style
I think this class is crazy good, i love it. I also think it SHOULD be B tier. If you look at their definition of b tier it says: "S-tier In the right Campaign" This class is insane with the right DM in the right campaign setting, but something like eloquence or Lore is god tier in literally any campaign.
A bard assassin who’s murder weapon is never found because he simply creates them every time and dispels them after the kill, fun role play I thought of
Something to take note of that makes the creation bard stronger. The animating performance feature doesn't say it doesn't work on items being worn or carried. Which means you could animate an enemy's armour or weapon and they can't do anything about it.
Even more impressive, the dancing item can fly and hover, and has a strength of 18. Plenty strong enough for you to animate that big scary enemy barbarian's armor and lift him five feet off the ground, essentially sidelining him for the battle. And if you think it's a waste of your animating performance to do what a single casting of Tasha's Hideous Laughter could accomplish with some unlucky rolls for the bad guy, remember that you can still attack him with his own armor, even in midair.
It's literally just, "Hey, I heard you liked Bard, so I put some Bard in your Bard and added extra Bard." Adds pretty much nothing new, but improves on every single aspect of a normal Bard. It's an S tier in my book.
I multiclassed my paladin with three levels of eloquence bard, and with expertise in insight and persuasion I'm breaking my campaign in half. Granted I have a very generous DM, and it's a social campaign, but my paladin class abilities simply can't keep up with spellcasting and problem-solving. And my character's a VENGEANCE Paladin! Six levels of paladin should not be less useful than a skill floor!
@@xcelentei Well of course eloquence bard is broken good in a social heavy campaign. That means tons of skill checks which bards are all good at but even better with silver tongue. With a 20 charisma and expertise in persuasion a level 8 Elo bard can never roll below a 21. Vengeance paladin is all about combat so if the campaign is low on combat and high on social interactivity then most of the paladin abilities will be lackluster.
i think the Mote of Potential should be thought of as Extra to the bardic inspiration, not another use. you get temporary hit points on the saving throw because you’re probably going to be taking damage, so it not only helps you make the save but it also takes the edge off when you take that damage.
Have your circle of shepherd Druid summon wargs or something of similar size and have your creation bard conjure a couple of chariots; now the party is fast and mobile and able to do raiding strikes repeatedly
Don’t forget if your a small race you can hide inside certain objects and take advantage of full cover only really getting attacked by an area of effect spells or features
I’d probably establish a d20 table, simple objects can be made without a d20 roll (lock pick), slightly more complicated objects might have a DC of 10 (simple weapons), more complicated concoctions might be a DC 18 (poisons, martial weapons ) and so on. And the role would be d20+ the characters charisma mod.
Updated tier list (regarding both The Dungeon Dudes and the users): S TIER - Path of the Totem Warrior (Barbarian) - College of Lore (Bard) - Peace Domain (Cleric) - Twilight Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Moon (Druid) - Battle Master (Fighter) - Echo Knight (Fighter) - Gloom Stalker Conclave (Ranger) - Aberrant Mind (Sorcerer) - Clockwork Soul (Sorcerer) - Divine Soul (Sorcerer) - The Hexblade (Warlock) - School of Divination (Wizard) A+ TIER - Armorer (Artificer) - Life Domain (Cleric) - Rune Knight (Fighter) - Oath of Vengeance (Paladin) - Arcane Trickster (Rogue) - Soulknife (Rogue) - Swashbuckler (Rogue) - The Fiend (Warlock) - The Genie (Warlock) - Bladesinging (Wizard) - Chronurgy Magic (Wizard) A TIER - Artillerist (Artificer) - Battle Smith (Artificer) - Path of the Ancestral Guardian (Barbarian) - Path of the Zealot (Barbarian) - College of Eloquence (Bard) - Forge Domain (Cleric) - Grave Domain (Cleric) - Light Domain (Cleric) - Tempest Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Shepherd (Druid) - Circle of the Stars (Druid) - Circle of the Wildfire (Druid) - Eldritch Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Open Hand (Monk) - Way of Shadow (Monk) - Way of Mercy (Monk) - Oath of the Ancients (Paladin) - Oath of Conquest (Paladin) - Oathbreaker (Paladin) - Beast Master Conclave (TCE) (Ranger) - Horizon Walker Conclave (Ranger) - Swarmkeeper Conclave (Ranger) - Scout (Rogue) - Shadow Magic (Sorcerer) - School of Abjuration (Wizard) - School of Enchantment (Wizard) - Order of Scribes (Wizard) B+ TIER - *College of Creation (Bard)* - Cavalier (Fighter) - Psi Warrior (Fighter) - Way of the Kensei (Monk) - Way of the Astral Self (Monk) - Oath of Devotion (Paladin) - Oath of Redemption (Paladin) - Oath of the Watchers (Paladin) - Fey Wanderer Conclave (Ranger) - Phantom (Rogue) - Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer) - Wild Magic (Sorcerer) - The Archfey (Warlock) - The Celestial (Warlock) - The Fathomless (Warlock) - School of Evocation (Wizard) - School of Illusion (Wizard) - School of Necromancy (Wizard) B TIER - Alchemist (Artificer) - Path of the Storm Herald (Barbarian) - College of Glamour (Bard) - *College of Swords (Bard)* - College of Valor (Bard) - Nature Domain (Cleric) - Order Domain (Cleric) - Trickery Domain (Cleric) - War Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Dreams (Druid) - Circle of the Land (Druid) - Champion (Fighter) - Samurai (Fighter) - Way of the Long Death (Monk) - Oath of Glory (Paladin) - Hunter Conclave (Ranger) - Assassin (Rogue) - Mastermind (Rogue) - Thief (Rogue) - The Great Old One (Warlock) - School of Conjuration (Wizard) C+ TIER - College of Whispers (Bard) - Arcana Domain (Cleric) - Death Domain (Cleric) - Knowledge Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Spores (Druid) - Arcane Archer (Fighter) - Way of the Drunken Master (Monk) - Oath of the Crown (Paladin) - Monster Slayer Conclave (Ranger) - Inquisitive (Rogue) - Storm Sorcery (Sorcerer) - Graviturgy Magic (Wizard) - School of Transmutation (Wizard) - War Magic (Wizard) C TIER - Path of the Battlerager (Barbarian) - Path of the Berserker (Barbarian) - Way of the Sun Soul (Monk) D+ TIER - The Undying (Warlock) D TIER - Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Four Elements (Monk) - Beast Master Conclave (PHB) (Ranger)
I love making characters with flavor over power and my satyr who is a bard with college of creation and a few levels of swashbuckler has a ton of potental
Something that I would be trying to do with a creation Bard is take advantage of clockwork, or other non-magical machinery. Be a magical Leonardo da Vinci, only the things that you draw on your sketch pad spring to life and suddenly you have a tank that you can pedal around, or one of those neat spirally helicopters that you can have the barbarian pedal to get you to the top of A cliff. Or just a huge block of solid Platinum
I'd make them "prove" they could come up with that. I'm not buying a min maxed +5 CHA/-1 INT bard understanding complex machinery. If it was simply "conjuring" an object, I'd allow it; but we're talking creating that object from thin air. If they do dump stats into INT, they can convince me they're the inventive type and go wild. I'd argue that's a fair middle ground between enjoyment and ruining the encounters :P
I like the idea of making costly spell components. The ivory statue of yourself might be hard to get for contingency, or the powdered gems for simulacrum. Both costing at least 1500.
if you take artificer levels you can use song of creation to create any tools you need and then have the proficiancy to use them with artificer feature. you can also do things like create a boat with song of creation but then animate it so you have a flying boat for the whole party. i think the amount of creative awesomeness you could do crossing it with literally any artificer subclass would be amazing. im partial to alchemist myself. if the dm allows you could use song of creation to create components for making potions or things like glass vials if you run out. im realllllly looking into this for my next character concept.
It's one of the bigger issues with the Bard subclasses. If you aren't Lore (magic) or Eloquence (RP/Interaction), the rest of the ones could be replaced with a couple dives into other classes. Easy example: I'm playing a Lore Bard with 2 dips into Hexblade. I now basically can frontline melee wise and AC (18/23 Shield), output massive damage at range, throw some insane spell power (at level 10 I'm rocking a DC 18), and can talk an Eskimo into buying a truck full of fridges. I'm already covering most of the other options around. Subclasses often work well for RP and on paper, but in game mechanics often differ in effectiveness, especially versus other options. There are major balance issues with 5E that need addressing.
The college of creation capstone feature feels like a better version of the illusionary reality from the illusion wizard subclass. Then the dancing items themselves are somewhat comparable to the primal companion from ranger. Personally think this subclass is sleeper op if used right and can easily see it being an S tier :3
I think a really good use of the performance of creation, and something not being said, is making material components for spells. Like for greater restoration, or at higher levels resurrection and true resurrection
Once every subclass has been ranked, are you planning on going back and ranking all subclasses of every class against each other? I imagine we'd see a lot more in D-tier when stacked up against some of the best subclasses in the game.
It has the same problem to me as the Conjuration wizard's Minor Conjuration: the rules for these semi-real magical objects are super confusing and almost all the cool things you'd want to do with the ability could potentially be shot down. Sure, I could have a conversation with my DM and establish they'll be quiter permissive. But we still end up bickering about how the ability works every time it's used, because every situation is different. And fundamentally I just don't like it when sessions devolve into bickering so as a player I just end up never using the ability. As a conjurer I occasionally conjured a chair to sit on and that's about it.
I don't understand why they think using a 2nd level spell to use the creation ability again is a big deal when their comparison is Fabricate, a 4th level spell that also requires material components for making said object. It's free once per long rest, restores for a spell slot you get 4 levels earlier, and later ignores cost, and gives you multiple items for a single 2nd level spell if you need to use the ability more than once a day. Side note, Whispers Bard seems perfect for B tier. In a social campaign with more subterfuge, it's an S, and otherwise it's still good, even if some of the abilities become less useful.
Yup, College of Creation is very much one of the sandbox subclasses. It's definitely S tier as long as you're creative enough to use it well. There's some awesome ideas in the comments, you get a flying mount at level 6, you can create pricy spell components (heroes feast every day? sure. diamonds worth at least 25k for true resurrection? done.), your Bardic Inspiration is in a way better than all but the Eloquence Bard, you literally are just better at what Bards do than other Bards and you also get the best features from the Conjuration Wizard. You guys said that being at sea or siege may not happen and that somehow makes the subclass less useful. Well, as long as your party is doing anything at all, this class is useful. You can create a cart to travel in (that looks in any way you like), you can create any set of tools, you can animate a carpet to be a flying carpet for an hour for the whole party. That's not to mention creating weapons and armor and spell components. Truly a subclass with endless usefulness, on top of being a full spellcaster with Magical Secrets. EDIT: Just got to the part when you say "why would I need this ability, when I can use Teleport or Force Cage instead?" Well the answer is because you as a Bard have a very limited number of spells known and using a free ability and then maybe 2nd level spell slot to do it again for 6hrs at a time is better than using a 6th level spell slot for a similar effect. If this ability for the cost of a 2nd level spell slot provides an alternative to so many spells between level 2 and 6 that you don't have the room for, it's a pretty damn good ability. Definitely S guys, unless you have a shitty DM.
I couldn't agree more. While there are many applications of these features where spells can be more effective at accomplishing the same thing, it is often for higher cost, like higher level spell slots, as you mentioned. And the sheer versatility of creating objects is staggering, it's a good one a day power, and even with the limitations when you first get it at 3rd level, it's among the best things you can do for a second level spell slot, and at later levels it's incredible for a second level slot. Hard to beat putting a 15 foot cube aoe of enemies into an adamantine box for hours with no concentration for the low low price of one second level slot. S in my opinion, unless nerfed beneath RAI.
Obviously, with Performance of Creation vs Fabricate there's a lot of differences. For example, the Bard gets PoC at 3rd level where Fabricate requires a Magical Secrets slot and (as a 4th level spell) won't be available till 7th level at the earliest. I like how 5e's maturing in terms of giving the ability to use spell slots for additional use of features (and suggest homebrewing this into older content). I don't see PoC as "costing" a second level spell slot...I see it having an option to do so if you need PoC again before the character's next long rest.
Since we are on the topic of college of creation bard I did want to bring up a ruling for clarification. When you get your Performance of Creation it states "once you create an ITEM with this feature, you can't do so again until you finish a long rest, unless you spend a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to use this feature again." Again at 14th level with Creative Crescendo "When you use your Performance of Creation feature, you can create more than one item at a once. The number of items equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of two items)." I made the word items in Performance of Creation in all caps because the rule says you can create only one free item per long rest, not use the ability once per long rest. Does this mean that when you create multiple items at level 14, if you wanted to create a siege weapon (catapult) and 4 pieces of ammunition (assuming CHA 20) then you would only get one item for free and must spend all 3 2nd level spell slots and a 3rd level spell slot to get both the catapult and all ammunition? If I continue a deep look within Performance of Creation it says a 2nd level or higher to use this feature, not create an additional item. So does it ultimately boil down to the first question or is it 1 free item per long rest plus whenever you spend a 2nd level spell slot or higher you can create multiple items equal to your CHA modifier? ultimately as I see it written you would get only 1 free item per long rest, the question is can one spell slot create 1 item or multiple at level 14?
For me this would definitely depend on the DM . with one of our DM's this would be an S tier subclass with another of our DM's this would be a D and possibly an F or a G ranking .
You shouldn't rate a class based on whether or not a DM is going to nerf it. By raw this glass can create spell components, wizard scribing components, and you can animate equipped items on another creature. It's insanely good
@@override367 I play D&D for fun , why would I choose a subclass that I know a particular DM will make a character boring and unenjoyable to play because of their play style .
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
“You have to be creative to use the creation bard.” -The Dungeon Dudes
It's a pretty hot take. 😄
How fitting!
You know there is one person who is creating a Green Lantern loving college of creation bard who is going to have a ball with this
[rips up character sheet]
The creators probably thought that you' have to be creative when creating the creation bard, which itself, is creative.
Creation's ability can be used to create spell components with a gold cost. At lvl 14 you have unlimited Hero's Feast; you will never be without a Diamond for Raise Dead; you have the keys to planar travel as you don't have to find a Tuning Rod for Planeshift. This is what makes the class S Tier.
I've been playing descent into avernus so spell components are hard to come by. Being able to cast Greater Restoration without having to worry about where I'm getting diamonds has been so incredibly clutch.
And yes, I cannot wait for level 14 and unlimited Heroes Feast!
Aren't the tuning rods for Plane Shift magical?
@@colsenthissell1012 That's one of those things that is up to DM interpretation. Tuning Rods themselves aren't magical but whether the attuned rod is or not is kind of unclear.
Tuning forks would be a situation where the dm should not allow you to create them without proper knowledge of the frequency of that plane but I know that some dms are lax about some of those specific spell components
@@olorin6494 Simple. Just allow it. But you have to go through the process of tuning the rod to whatever plane you need. I mean you can create the item but you still need to have the knowledge to tune it.
The College of Creation suffers from the same thing as an Illusionist: It requires creativity and DM permission. Being locked down by "no" all the time will make this into a waste of time. If you CAN get the right combination of DM and player, this subclass is hard to beat. You become basically an X-Man, creating what you need to solve the problem and help the team. This ability to create isn't exclusive to spellcasting, because you can save you spells for what you cannot create. This is at least A tier - but it need an A tier player and DM too.
Super hero that comes to my mind has to be Green Lantern.
Read some Lantern comics. Should really help you with some ideas on what to summon with your creation abilities.
not sure which x man you’re talking about, but @Fektthis is pretty good with the Green Lantern comparison
College of creation is S tier in the right campaign (i.e. right party and DM as well), which makes it a B tier by their criteria.
@@matthewparker9276 the way they're phrasing it, it's not the campaign it's the player. which seems a bit odd to me. a creative player is S tier but they're assuming not everyone is creative enough to play it well so it's B tier as a result. I don't like the logic. It's kind of like the same mentality used when someone plays for the first time and asks what they should make as their character and a vet tells them to make a Champion fighter even knowing they wanted to play a wizard. You're selling the players short.
If you don't have a healthy imagination, odds are you're not playing DnD anyway.
@@Fektthis well the difference in this case and why B tier work is because it's not just a creative player it require a permissive DM otherwise he could always just shut it down to that doesn't work. as mike said "Being locked down by a no"
The dancing item can be a large construct with flying, which means you can have a flying mount at level 6.
That's one of the big things I'm looking forward to when my character reaches 6 (currently just shy of level 5). But it is for limited time unfortunately. But I'm looking forward to using my Performance of Creation to make a platform with crenelations, then making it fly so I can maneuver around the battlefield and fire spells and crossbow bolts then hide behind the battlements!
Exactly. This and the ability to basically use concentration free telekinesis and fly if you need to move objects up to large along with potentially creating spell components raises this class to at least an A in my book. Also, the animated item has reactions for opportunity attacks and can take other actions. So, you can have it use the help action for advantage, and do things like shove an enemy around (+4 to strength). Lastly, depending on your DM's interpretation, you can create food, water, and drink for exploration. Also, I've had instances in early levels where the barbarian's great axe was damaged by a black pudding, so I could make him a replacement until we got to a blacksmith.
had a buddy animate my halflings cart and casted invisibility on it, great for landing on an enemies rooftop, defiantly worth the price of admission for being a creation bard.
I can fly at level 1, this isnt that good
@@baristus Good examples. And yeah on the spell components: unfortunately being level 4 means 80gp max value, but next level I'll be able to make that diamond my buddy needed so he could cast Identify!
Here's my solution to "not always having the right thing to create" problem: grab a piece of paper and any time you come up with an idea for something you can create with performance of creation write it down. Any time you feel stuck just look at the list of notes and you'll probably have something on there that can be useful
The Dudes: "We're only going to be talking about one subclass today."
Me: *looks at video length*
The Video length: *28:53*
Me: What the f***
Higher level Creation Bards can cast a no component cost Hero’s Feast every day. That’s pretty nuts.
Oh dang. Then take inspiring leader as well and then you have a bunch of extra health lol
@@cardboardcreationsart temp hp doesn't stack
@@eaglesridge7896 hero's feast gives additional MAX hp, inspiring leader is temp.
If you take Simulacrum as your Magical Secrets, then you can make an unlimited army.
It's not a magical creation, and is disappears after the duration. Suffering from the UA ruling (like minor conjuration) of not nourishing. You may also need to be able to prepare that feast as well FWIW, which is different than just wanting a lot of food.
Many people also say that "if damaged" these things disappear, which sounds weird for armor and such ... but that's how people gimp these classes so they don't have to say "no", they just make them grossly unappealing.
In UA clarrication they have people making gunpowder that will function though (if the character knows how to make it) and wheelbarrows, which is pretty huge ... complex chemicals and a machine.
Just for the $300gp diamonds and misc nonsense I would take the subclass, its a goto for a lot of things ontop of bard itself. Once you get a list of items catalogs, super fun.
I could cast the fly spell for 10 minutes with concentration, or I could animate a large rug that multiple people could fly on for an hour without concentration. With the same spell slot!
Also means another spell I don’t need to have known :)
Exactly!!!
This is what I do! Also I have the flying rug grapple(18 str) up to huge size creatures with bardic inspiration(x2 rolls)
With the creature also hexed(disadvantage on either str or dex checks)
Once creature is grappled rug flies straight up if creature get out of grapple it takes fall damage, works better outside of course
@@jamesbrannen204 where did you get ability scores from?
@@13thTemplar718 the strength score for the dancing Item? Its stat block is in Tasha's
1st thing: You can’t cast animate objects if you don’t have any objects to animate.
2nd: animate a boat and fly around in it.
3rd: team up with an artificer who invents all the crazy contraptions, and recreate them at (sorta)will.
S tier bard :)
I did play this class, and had an amazing blast with it. Multi-classed as a Warlock so I could repeatedly burn out Warlock spell slots to create and animate objects more often and easier. Also went Warlock of the Genie and Vessal was a large Ring with hollowed gem. Short rest inside the ring while familiar bird flee around holding it and travelling.
Being able to create a barricade wall to give your group large cover, amazing.
Being able to settle a bar fight by making one of the tables as an immediate ally and fighting with you and a summon spell, fantastic.
Creating a wall to block the only entrance to enemies chasing you, life saving.
This is old but could you please tell me the levels you put into this? I love the idea
@@blank805 I believe this was on my Character Rhamza the Rhyming. 15lvls bars of creation and 5lvls Warlock of the Genie, pact of Chain. This let's you have a chain familiar to speak to, with, through, that can hold your ring and fly, 3rd lvl Warlock slots for burning for your creation and animation bard abilities thay come back on short rest. And all the flavour and power of the bars you'd need while getting the best out of Warlock to mix in.
But pact and evocation up to you, and used the pact of chain evocation so your familiar uses your DC for abilities and saving throws
@@KennethHSH thank you so much lol also do you know at levels you chose genie
@@blank805 The Genie is an optional Path for Warlock Patrons, inside the "Tasha's Cauldron if Everything" book. It gives es some great abilities like Vessel, to rest inside, extra dmg a turn in attacks, a fire Genie Warlock that can use Fireball, Bringing the whole party in your Genie vessel, or limited wish, and full on wish spell use.
one of my favorite uses of the Creation Ability? Spell Components. At later levels you can make Diamonds for Revivify and Raise Dead
That’s a really good idea, but I don’t know if I would personally allow a temporary item to serve as a material component as a DM, or if I did, maybe just not the ones that are consumable
Spell components is a HUGE deal that they just ignore. Hello daily Heroes Feast!
@@evilsquirrel0573 sage advice has confirmed spell components are viable by RAI. But yes, always up to DM discretion
Very Surprised Hero’s Feast didn’t come up in discussions for this reason as it is now on the Bard spell list.
@@dyykaacovers really? Wow, well never mind then, that’s a massive power boost in my mind
Fun fact for creation bards out there, flour is very cheap detect invisibility
LOL. Ya know I’ve never even thought of that, and I’ve been playing for 40 years. That’s brilliant
Or an explosive if you use it correctly
Actually, I think the "anything you're wearing turns invisible" part interferes with that.
… and as a DM… if I allow my party to use flour for detect invisibility, then all the intelligence bad guys know the trick and can use it too. This renders invisibility a completely useless spell. I don’t think my players want that. So, no, flour does not work. It’ instantly becomes worn’ and so is invisible too.
i’m on the side of the people in the comments here, but here’s a compromise: it makes for a good *detect* invisibility, not a good *see* invisibility. invisible creatures still leave footprints, meaning you could scatter flour on the floor and see their footprints in the flour like snow. you might also see their imprint on the wall if you throw flour at them, but if they move then you won’t know where they go to.
not a bad deal, and if there’s no one there you’ll look paranoid for making a mess.
Creation bards being able to create spell components earns it an A in my book. You can give your party a permanent hero's feast buff,, always have revivify at the ready, components for your party's wizard/sorcerer, etc.
Being restricted to 260 gold pieces of creation before 14th level makes the creation bard's best ability basically powerless for the majority of levels people play the game unless your DM is just taking pity on you. I'd love to play one at 17th level though.
@@benjaminkowal7310 Weeeeeeeell... for some spells like revivify or even more expensive ones sure, but in some cases it says that they use "diamonds" worth X amount of gp, so you could buy a ton of little diamonds and combine them with creation bard's diamonds for cheaper revivify, also, some spells like Arcane lock, Find Familiar, Continual Flame, Identify (it's just one pearl, but it's better if you don't actually expend it) are good uses for that ability before hitting 14th lvl
@@benjaminkowal7310 this is not true, wizards spell components don't cost that much, you can do glyphs of warning at level 10 so if you have downtime just watch your DM die inside. Additionally, animating performance can be used on equipped objects held or worn by enemies. Watch your DM nerf it because they think the class is too overpowered, in exchange barter with them for the ability to be a little bit more creative with your song of creation ability
The creation stuff glows, disappears after a few hours, and you can hear faint music when you touch it. I feel most DMs will can and should just rule you cant create spell components or you can but they wont work for the spell.
Having played this, the Performance of Creation was most useful as a way to overcome environmental hazards. It has saved a life in combat more than once.
It's also good to create cover (as long as your DM remembers that cover rules exist).
I love this class primarily for its creative role play facility. I'm not even talking about straight-up utility for solving problems and such, though that is excellent as well. But to give one example of something I did in my recent game: my party was exploring a haunted house for a Halloween-themed adventure, and in one room we were presented with a ghostly scene of a woman giving a little girl a new doll, and then another scene of the doll murdering the little girl, before our big fight against the evil little doll demon. After the fight, I went to the spot in the room where the little girl had died (in the ghostly scene that had played out before us) and used Performance of Creation to create a Lily, and placed it on the floor there in commemoration of her. Sure, I had used up that ability for the day and wouldn't have it for any problem solving later, but it was perfect for role playing my Bard's sentimentality and empathy.
Some hilarious things I've noticed playing as a Creation Bard:
- The Dancing Item has the same stats no matter their size. So imagine a baddie just minding their own business and a tiny, animated doll/teapot/whatever just runs up with their 18 strength stat and decks them with that 1d10 + proficiency Force Empowered Slam.
- Whatever item you make glimmers and plays soft music when someone touches it. So whatever you make is gonna look glam af. My DM is nice enough that my character gets to pick the music, which has made for some hilarious moments.
- Formal wear can easily fit into the gold limit, and it lasts a few hours, so you could theoretically be someone's Fairy Godparent. Or your own. My point being you'll always be ready for a fancy occasion.
And I agree, it's always good to ask questions for your DM ahead of time so they wouldn't be put in the spotlight with a question that needs a little more thought. One of the perks of living with my DM, lol. This class has been fun as hell to play, especially since my character's backstory was that he was a con artist before becoming an adventurer.
Some meta shade being thrown at Wrath here. “Not every class can make oars”
I could hear wrath grumbling about it in the background lol
Poor Wrath... Looking forward to seeing the original 3 next time.
The Creation Bard can make oars.
Oar four
Taking tiny servant with this class at level 10 is very fun to play and thematically pleasing. Especially when use performance of creation to create items that require the use object option. Telling your animated hammer to place a hunting trap to catch an enemy is a good time
This subclass is perfect for creative players, when my best friend introduced me to DnD on December of 2020 she was playing a Creation Bard and i was playing a Tortle Kensei Monk, we were exploring a dark forest in the middle of the night and i was the only party-member without darkvision yet i had the highest AC of the group so when we were ambushed i had disadvantage and couldn't hit anything yet the enemies couldn't hit me either, she created a glowing mushroom and stuck it onto my Tortle's shell so he could see and kick-ass after a few rounds lol.
you can do that with the Light cantrip. i use it with the dragonborn in my party(the only one without darkvision)
Dungeon Dudes: gives Illusionist Wizard an A because it allows for tons of creativity.
Also Dungeon Dudes: gives Creation Bard a B because it relies on being creative.
Ignores flying mount at lvl 6, and free priceless spell components at lvl 14.
There is a difference between them, mostly cause the core rules of the creation bard, kind of force you to be creative, and you get nothing else. Illusionist wizard, has the opportunity to be creative, but its not mandatory to play that subclass well, cause in the end it is illusions that become real, not literal make something real and you have free reign at level 14
Not to mention how they praised having a new use for bardic inspiration, yet they shit on swords bard, completely ignoring it's 14th level ability. They do this a lot, praising something for fitting into a different niche, like divine soul Sorc as a healing subclass, but just hate on swords bard for making a non-support bard
I do like their content but there tier lists are all over the place.
@@mtldragon3 Well the thing with these is its usually just Opinion, TTRPG's are so different compared to Video Games, cause with Video Games, its not as long running, and you can binge them, TTRPG's are so long running and each campaign being different, that there are too many factors to judge
@@highdie84 of course it's just opinion and its hard to judge them all. I also play ttrpgs so I don't need that explained to me lol. Just stating that their opinions are inconsistent. I don't have to agree with them to enjoy the content either.
I've been waiting so long for this, my Creation Bard only has 2 more sessions left in the campaign lol.
I enjoyed it. The inspiration changes were good and my party liked them, especially the skill check and saving throw ones.
Creating things came in handy many times, especially because we were Avernus and didn't always have things we needed or an easy way to get them. Most notable uses: free spell components, a spell focus for myself when we lost all our stuff, a silvered sword for the Rogue, a giant watermelon to stave off exhaustion from heat, a giant cake to impress a crazy eladrin, an iron rod to barricade a door, a ton of silver so the Paladin could make a ton of holy water. What I most anticipate is level 14 when I can make the spell component for Heroes' Feast so that we can have one every night. (Also you don't have to use a spell slot the first time you use it.)
The Dancing Item is a good way to add more bodies to the battlefield and is a great use of my bonus action. Large items can block off areas. It's also a nice buff to the Rogue's speed.
All in all, the class could probably be stronger but I've been happy with it.
Just wanna point this out- animating performance doesn’t say the item has to be not worn/carried, meaning if you fight anyone that uses a weapon, you can animate that weapon and use it against them.
Brillant! Animate an article of clothing or armor while you're at it! Imagine an enemy soldier's boot trying to dance the tango while he needs steady footing.
@@OmniGman exactly
@@OmniGman I LOVE this
As a fan of the college of swords, the biggest crime of Tashas was not giving the new fighting style options to them. Thrown weapon style fits so well
Yes! When I first read through the PHB four years ago that was the very first idea for a character I had and I realized it wouldn’t work like I wanted. The Carnivale knife thrower
I keep ending up watching these right after they come out, after just finding previous one. Amazing timing finding this channel
College of Creation is the definition of "Huh, that's neat". At the end of the day, you're still a Bard - you'll never *suck* - but it's nothing that makes you go, "Wow, this is a total game-changer. How did I live without this?"
I do love how this subclass basically turns you into a 1930s cartoon character
I was just waiting for this installment.
p.s., I feel like this is an S tier subclass, but maybe that's because I'm a niche player.
A creative player can do a lot with this. Mega robe of useful things plus a flying carpet/armchair/steel defender plus gravy on the inspiration.
It's awesome.
Thank you for not yelling first
@@owenblack1411 no need to thank me, friend. I'm a grown up.
Honestly, I see this class as being very similar to the Illusionist wizard or the trickery cleric. In the hands of a skilled player with a compatible DM, instant S-tier, no questions asked. If either of those levers are out of whack, much less good and potentially unplayably bad.
When I think of/look at most of the other S-tier classes, the key thing that enters my head is "idiot-proof". The Totem Warrior, Twilight Cleric, Moon Druid, Battle Master, Vengeance Paladin... these are all classes that can be explained to a newish player in 10 minutes and they're going off and being the most dangerous member of the party. Some of them have an especially high ceiling, but all have a ridiculously high floor.
The creation bard on the other hand is the other way around. It has a high ceiling, a low floor, and not much overlap in between.
@@brifox yeah true, idiot proof is a criterion for S tier. I don't play en masse or in adventurers' league with strangers, nor tolerate playmates shutting down fun in a game of imagination, so the real gems for me are found in the B tier stratum. Imagine this subclass in the hands of Joe in shadows of drakkenheim. Oars would be the least of it.
@@brifox I think that is an issue with the S-tier ranking. It does seem to be more about “idiot proofing” than potential. Jeremy Crawford has already clarified some rulings that a stickler DM would have tried to deny you like consumable spell components, or items not explicitly in the handbook.
So only a bad DM would make this anything less than S-tier, a lazy or rigid DM will probably turn any s-tier class into whatever ranking they want.
Re: Performance of Creation given the PHB is mentioned to find examples, I wouldn't get too hung up on the modern interpretation of 'object'. Any set of tools is composed of several 'objects'. So creating a rowboat without oars seems like a DM being an obstructionist. Personally, unless my players were being cheeky, I'd err on the side or the generous and magical. A huge object can be 15' x 15' ... so potentially say... a hut. IMO, if a bard wanted to make a hut I'd include things like hearth, bed etc.
In my recent game we wanted to get up to the 2nd floor of a locked building, but no one had a grappling hook... so used Performance of Creation and made one! Useful!
I don't play DnD but am subbed because I love listening to you guys!
I think you are right, this is the definition of a textbook B tier. In its best environments its absolutely unrivaled, but if its kept in strict confines its good but not overwhelming. Depends hard on player capacity, DM permissions, and campaign setting.
5:40 When you raise the point about the temporary hit points, and not being able to just have them when you want, I look at it rather differently. Just as with the other 2 bonuses added into Bardic Inspiration for this class, it's a way of ameliorating your potential for failure. It's about knowing that, "even if I fail this throw, it won't ALL be bad, I'll get a few temporary hit points to make it hurt less. Sort of a consolation prize 😁.
And I really think this is well created on the part of Wizards, because it speaks to the essential nature of the Bard class. If there are 2 principles definitive of the Bard, those would be that they are a Jack of All Trades, and that they are all about controlling morale to keep their party on top and their foes second guessing themselves. And the Mote of Creation is an excellent way to breath even more life into your team by giving then just that little bit more leeway in overcoming the tides of fate!
If the "long enough lever" can move the world, then this is like putting some chalk on your hands to help you grip that lever.
An important consideration is that animated objects, like the one College of Creation bards create with Animated Performance, can flank an enemy and thus grant both of you advantage.
While this is true, Flanking rules are optional. Some DMs use it and others don't.
At level 5+ you could create enough powdered diamond to cast Greater Restoration. If you have a Sorlock in your party that has a divine origin with access to the spell, you can let them chain short rests and you could supply them with the powdered diamond for it. That way, they keep all the spell slots they need for flexible casting.
DM running for a party of six 19th level PCs (starting at 2nd level) including a College of Creation bard and it's been amazing. They've conjured up everything from a car-jack to an army of toy soldiers and siege weapon (animated by the sorcerer). But the limit on the magical nature of the conjured items, and that it doesnt become super powerful until 14th level (when most of the items you want to conjure in a pinch are magical) keeps it nicely balanced.
You can create material components for spells with the lvl 3 feature. For instance: 50gp worth of chalk to cast teleportation circle
once you can create any object: make a huge cube of Platinum. 15 cubic feet of Platinum weigh 2050 tonnes. drop that thing on any enemy, goodbye
You can animate anything at lvl 6: for example the sword an enemy is holding.
Creation Bard is the Cheese Bard.
About the DM shooting your creative ideas down: it really depends on the person. Whenever one of my players brings something up to me that I find cool or clever; I try my hardest to make it work, delaying my own plans if needed so that the player can have their moment. My friend, on the other hand, has in the past woven the narrative in a way that has invalidated my creative plans AFTER I had told him in advance... so, yea. YMMV!
The biggest thing that I think the price restriction being lifted for a bard goes to the utility of making the most useful thing for other classes: expensive material components. Depending on how a DM looks at them, you could create everything you need for those big spells. Heroes feast? Oh here is that gem encrusted bowl. Resurrection? OH HERES A DIAMOND
Counterpoint to spells such as fabricate or animate objects is that those are 4th and 5th level spells, while these are effectively 2nd and 3rd levels spells, which means you can save those higher level spell slots for better spells, or upcasting other spells.
I love the idea of a precarious area like a canyon of some sort and the College of Creation Bard just sing a bridge into existence, or your the longboat you mentioned and so on.
Dancing object + animate object + multiclass in to druid, Beauty and the Beast in D&D
you can create a siege weapon and take 2 levels of artificer and take the repeating shot infusion to create a force ballista or a force cannon that only requires 1 person to use
A creation bard and a forge cleric in out of the abyss campaign would be game changing for sure.
With this bard I think it really brings Cami-Cat's bard video "Meet my friends" to life. With the dancing objects ability and animate objects I just love the idea of a corrupt, greedy lord being absolutely BTFO'd by his own possessions.
one cool team synergy you can use a large and huge object for is whipping up a large huge weapon and proper size one for a rune knight that has become large or huge.
No no matter what the rules is written interpretation says they actually have a proper size weapon for their new status, that’s a possible 3D12 axe with 3-4 extra attacks.
Dungeon Dudes - You can make a cannon
Me - Combo with a Druid or Cleric & make a huge cube of Potassium with them using a spell to create/unleash water. Laugh maniacally at the resulting explosion.
How would they know about that chemical reaction? Now exactly forgotten realms level of technology.
@@torinsmith9867 Something like that would certainly be considered in the realms of Alchemy. I mean, how many stories do you hear of wizards or witches or maybe even artificers adding something to water or some other liquid which ends up causing an explosion.
Only if you have the knowledge of it via proficiency in Arcana or Alchemist's Tools.
@@haerdalis84 which are skills a Bard could easily have.
@@xselinisx sure enough
Are you guys going to rank the College of Spirits at all? It’s probably one of my favorite bard subclasses right now
College of Spirits is the best bard, by far! Hands down an S Tier! I think that it makes the Lore Bard look positively lame.
So strange they didn't do it in this video!
@@stephhanley3167 yeah, no.
I like it, it's very flavorful, but it's not even close to as good as the Lore or Eloquence Bard.
I bet they'll do both the Undead Warlock and the College of Spirits Bard in a single video, like "Van Richten' Subclass Rankings"
i mean its really good if you ignore the rules... but if you follow them theres like what 3 spells bards get that can benefit from the d6 added and none of them are healing so why even mention that in the ability?
Animating Performance allows the dancing item to take a non-dodge action by the bard spending their bonus action (or co-spending with Bardic Inspiration). This could be the Help action...Your bard could be bardically inspiring an ally (including the Note of Potential bonus) and giving that (or another ally) advantage via their dancing item. That's a LOT for a BA...for an hour without concentration or a spell slot (unless you want to use it for more than one hour per long rest).
As a bard of creation I used the song of creation at level 3 (and yes we did the math) and I used the song of creation in order to make a 5’x5’x5’ brick of granite directly above a hobgoblin. The dm ruled that since it was above the hobgoblin the space was considered unoccupied, the hobgoblin critically failed its dex save and the brick of granite fell and crushed it into jelly with 21,000 lbs of amazingness
I think creating costly spell components is a cool idea since a lot of good spells have costly components and that cost can be lessened or ignored as long as the casting time is shorter than the duration.
creation: heroes' feast AND the bowl that's the material component.
Creation bard is so much fun, animating my backpack to avoid climbing, str 18 it can carry my skinny ass bard, and still fight up top.
Also what you animate is not limited to things not being carried so animating the enemies weapon thus disarming them and having a new ally is a lot of fun.
Once I animated a cauldron of boiling soup and had it grapple enemies trying to dunk them in the soup
Maybe not S tier for everyone but amazing for me
It should be said, that with Leomund's Tiny Hut, as long as your cannon and ammo start *inside* the hut, they can have an inpenetrable force bubble and can't be targetted by attacks or spells from your enemies. Add Animate Objects for 10 loading/firing actions and you can rapid fire the cannon, provided you bring your own ammunition.
You gave me an idea.
1. Create a nice weapon.
2. Make an enemy want it.
3.Give to the enemy/let them take it.
4. In battle, create something else so the enemy loses the weapon.
I think it can be S tier in MOST campaigns. So many people that play DnD are inherently creative.
I am going play an eloquence bard with a dip in hexblade warlock. I am also considering a dip in sorcerer as an alternative or in addition to hexblade warlock. I have selected 1/2 elf for the +2 charisma bonus. For feats I will probably take inspiring leader at 4th level and actor at 8th level (or switched). Using point buy I can start out with a 17 charisma, then when I take the actor feat charisma will jump to 18. Actor feat combined with spells like disguise self will be useful at times. I will take a 14 dex if I will dip into hexblade warlock thereby max-min with AC for medium armor, but I will take a 16 dex if the DM does not allow multiclassing. None of my other stat will be less than a 10. The 1/2 elf eloquence bard with a dip in hexblade warlock will be very versatile. Almost never fail will persuasion and intimidation checks. AC=18 (14 dex + breast plate armor, shield) and still be able to move silently with breast plate, if I want to be noisy with half plate I can get an AC of 19. Unlimited eldritch blast, mage hand ,vicious mockery, minor illusion, (possibly later prestidigitation, message, and mend, although I seriously considering taking prestidigitation as a starting cantrip) hex, healing word, sleep, disguise self, detect magic, read languages, etc... Modest use of melee weapons using dex or charisma modifiers etc...
Currently playing a Eloquence /Arch fey lock its amazingly fun.
@@JL-gm8gy I'm glad that it is fun. One big advantage for an eloquence bard taking a 1 level dip in hexblade warlock is that he can pick up proficiency in medium armor and shield, therefore with only a point buy expenditure of 14 dex (13+1 racial modifier for half elf) he can get at AC of 18 (10+2+4+2) and still be able to move silently wearing breast plate and shield, or an AC of 19 (10+2+5+2) if wearing noisy half plate and shield. Then there all of the other abilities of the hexblade warlock. Getting eldritch blast (for all warlocks) as a cantrip gives unlimited force ranged magic attacks and means that my character does not need to take thunderwave spell as a bard. etc...
@@JL-gm8gy When I DM a group I have decided that all of the players will use point buy plus 3 extra ability points added anywhere at the end, with no rolling for stats. This will allow characters to start off more evenly, with each character being able to start out with a 20 in one stat (15 +2 racial +3 extra ability points). All characters can also start with 3 levels to allow for easy multiclassing etc... I will ban the artificer class and all typically evil races for characters.
CB: "I could make a whole BOOK with everything I know about that!"
Party: "Really?"
CB: *creates a large book with "EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THAT" beautifully inscribed on the cover. Passes to the party*
Party: "it's blank..."
I love this subclass. My initial first thought about this was Fantasia Sorcerors Apprentice animating a broom, after watching this I almost think about MacGyver which would pair nicely with an Artificer.
You could use this subclass to make an incredibly zany, almost Looney Toons esc vibe, I have a character concept that is a silent film star, who uses his creation abilities for slapstick comedic effect, like making a comedically large mallet, or oversized boxing gloves. I also have a character who is a chef, using his creation abilities to not only summon rare ingredients for his food, but also to animate things like cheese and bread. In terms of flavor, this is up there with Glamour, easy S for flavor.
My favorite concept for the college of creation bard is using the animating performance to animate a bunch of statues to server as your backing band chuck e cheese style
I think this class is crazy good, i love it.
I also think it SHOULD be B tier.
If you look at their definition of b tier it says: "S-tier In the right Campaign"
This class is insane with the right DM in the right campaign setting, but something like eloquence or Lore is god tier in literally any campaign.
A bard assassin who’s murder weapon is never found because he simply creates them every time and dispels them after the kill, fun role play I thought of
Something to take note of that makes the creation bard stronger. The animating performance feature doesn't say it doesn't work on items being worn or carried. Which means you could animate an enemy's armour or weapon and they can't do anything about it.
Even more impressive, the dancing item can fly and hover, and has a strength of 18. Plenty strong enough for you to animate that big scary enemy barbarian's armor and lift him five feet off the ground, essentially sidelining him for the battle. And if you think it's a waste of your animating performance to do what a single casting of Tasha's Hideous Laughter could accomplish with some unlucky rolls for the bad guy, remember that you can still attack him with his own armor, even in midair.
I still cannot fathom how Eloquence got a B ranking in the community....
It's literally just,
"Hey, I heard you liked Bard, so I put some Bard in your Bard and added extra Bard."
Adds pretty much nothing new, but improves on every single aspect of a normal Bard. It's an S tier in my book.
As someone who has both played one and DMed one, I have to agree. B is way too low
I multiclassed my paladin with three levels of eloquence bard, and with expertise in insight and persuasion I'm breaking my campaign in half. Granted I have a very generous DM, and it's a social campaign, but my paladin class abilities simply can't keep up with spellcasting and problem-solving.
And my character's a VENGEANCE Paladin! Six levels of paladin should not be less useful than a skill floor!
@@xcelentei Well of course eloquence bard is broken good in a social heavy campaign. That means tons of skill checks which bards are all good at but even better with silver tongue. With a 20 charisma and expertise in persuasion a level 8 Elo bard can never roll below a 21.
Vengeance paladin is all about combat so if the campaign is low on combat and high on social interactivity then most of the paladin abilities will be lackluster.
Eloquence is just crazy good.
As a Face there is nothing close.
Don’t forget to pick Tiny Servant as one of your magical secrets to operate your 5 cannons
Plus grab touch cantrips like Guidance and Resistance to continuously cast while inside genie vessel through your familiar to buff the ring wearer.
i think the Mote of Potential should be thought of as Extra to the bardic inspiration, not another use. you get temporary hit points on the saving throw because you’re probably going to be taking damage, so it not only helps you make the save but it also takes the edge off when you take that damage.
college of creation bard can create objects that are usable for consumable spell components, and once the gold cost goes away, they become insane
Looking back, what would have been nice is an improvement of Summoning spells
Have your circle of shepherd Druid summon wargs or something of similar size and have your creation bard conjure a couple of chariots; now the party is fast and mobile and able to do raiding strikes repeatedly
Don’t forget if your a small race you can hide inside certain objects and take advantage of full cover only really getting attacked by an area of effect spells or features
I’d probably establish a d20 table, simple objects can be made without a d20 roll (lock pick), slightly more complicated objects might have a DC of 10 (simple weapons), more complicated concoctions might be a DC 18 (poisons, martial weapons ) and so on. And the role would be d20+ the characters charisma mod.
Updated tier list (regarding both The Dungeon Dudes and the users):
S TIER
- Path of the Totem Warrior (Barbarian)
- College of Lore (Bard)
- Peace Domain (Cleric)
- Twilight Domain (Cleric)
- Circle of the Moon (Druid)
- Battle Master (Fighter)
- Echo Knight (Fighter)
- Gloom Stalker Conclave (Ranger)
- Aberrant Mind (Sorcerer)
- Clockwork Soul (Sorcerer)
- Divine Soul (Sorcerer)
- The Hexblade (Warlock)
- School of Divination (Wizard)
A+ TIER
- Armorer (Artificer)
- Life Domain (Cleric)
- Rune Knight (Fighter)
- Oath of Vengeance (Paladin)
- Arcane Trickster (Rogue)
- Soulknife (Rogue)
- Swashbuckler (Rogue)
- The Fiend (Warlock)
- The Genie (Warlock)
- Bladesinging (Wizard)
- Chronurgy Magic (Wizard)
A TIER
- Artillerist (Artificer)
- Battle Smith (Artificer)
- Path of the Ancestral Guardian (Barbarian)
- Path of the Zealot (Barbarian)
- College of Eloquence (Bard)
- Forge Domain (Cleric)
- Grave Domain (Cleric)
- Light Domain (Cleric)
- Tempest Domain (Cleric)
- Circle of the Shepherd (Druid)
- Circle of the Stars (Druid)
- Circle of the Wildfire (Druid)
- Eldritch Knight (Fighter)
- Way of the Open Hand (Monk)
- Way of Shadow (Monk)
- Way of Mercy (Monk)
- Oath of the Ancients (Paladin)
- Oath of Conquest (Paladin)
- Oathbreaker (Paladin)
- Beast Master Conclave (TCE) (Ranger)
- Horizon Walker Conclave (Ranger)
- Swarmkeeper Conclave (Ranger)
- Scout (Rogue)
- Shadow Magic (Sorcerer)
- School of Abjuration (Wizard)
- School of Enchantment (Wizard)
- Order of Scribes (Wizard)
B+ TIER
- *College of Creation (Bard)*
- Cavalier (Fighter)
- Psi Warrior (Fighter)
- Way of the Kensei (Monk)
- Way of the Astral Self (Monk)
- Oath of Devotion (Paladin)
- Oath of Redemption (Paladin)
- Oath of the Watchers (Paladin)
- Fey Wanderer Conclave (Ranger)
- Phantom (Rogue)
- Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer)
- Wild Magic (Sorcerer)
- The Archfey (Warlock)
- The Celestial (Warlock)
- The Fathomless (Warlock)
- School of Evocation (Wizard)
- School of Illusion (Wizard)
- School of Necromancy (Wizard)
B TIER
- Alchemist (Artificer)
- Path of the Storm Herald (Barbarian)
- College of Glamour (Bard)
- *College of Swords (Bard)*
- College of Valor (Bard)
- Nature Domain (Cleric)
- Order Domain (Cleric)
- Trickery Domain (Cleric)
- War Domain (Cleric)
- Circle of Dreams (Druid)
- Circle of the Land (Druid)
- Champion (Fighter)
- Samurai (Fighter)
- Way of the Long Death (Monk)
- Oath of Glory (Paladin)
- Hunter Conclave (Ranger)
- Assassin (Rogue)
- Mastermind (Rogue)
- Thief (Rogue)
- The Great Old One (Warlock)
- School of Conjuration (Wizard)
C+ TIER
- College of Whispers (Bard)
- Arcana Domain (Cleric)
- Death Domain (Cleric)
- Knowledge Domain (Cleric)
- Circle of Spores (Druid)
- Arcane Archer (Fighter)
- Way of the Drunken Master (Monk)
- Oath of the Crown (Paladin)
- Monster Slayer Conclave (Ranger)
- Inquisitive (Rogue)
- Storm Sorcery (Sorcerer)
- Graviturgy Magic (Wizard)
- School of Transmutation (Wizard)
- War Magic (Wizard)
C TIER
- Path of the Battlerager (Barbarian)
- Path of the Berserker (Barbarian)
- Way of the Sun Soul (Monk)
D+ TIER
- The Undying (Warlock)
D TIER
- Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight (Fighter)
- Way of the Four Elements (Monk)
- Beast Master Conclave (PHB) (Ranger)
one could also say “how much information would a 60 gp book on necromancers actually have?”
college textbooks are expensive!
I love making characters with flavor over power and my satyr who is a bard with college of creation and a few levels of swashbuckler has a ton of potental
Something that I would be trying to do with a creation Bard is take advantage of clockwork, or other non-magical machinery. Be a magical Leonardo da Vinci, only the things that you draw on your sketch pad spring to life and suddenly you have a tank that you can pedal around, or one of those neat spirally helicopters that you can have the barbarian pedal to get you to the top of A cliff. Or just a huge block of solid Platinum
I'd make them "prove" they could come up with that. I'm not buying a min maxed +5 CHA/-1 INT bard understanding complex machinery. If it was simply "conjuring" an object, I'd allow it; but we're talking creating that object from thin air.
If they do dump stats into INT, they can convince me they're the inventive type and go wild.
I'd argue that's a fair middle ground between enjoyment and ruining the encounters :P
I like the idea of making costly spell components. The ivory statue of yourself might be hard to get for contingency, or the powdered gems for simulacrum. Both costing at least 1500.
I heard the Dune shout out!! “Can you make an ornithopter?!” Haha love you dudes!
*Stares at the bard of creation making oars* WRATH! This guy can make oars!
I think Bard's create some of the best BBEGs
if you take artificer levels you can use song of creation to create any tools you need and then have the proficiancy to use them with artificer feature. you can also do things like create a boat with song of creation but then animate it so you have a flying boat for the whole party. i think the amount of creative awesomeness you could do crossing it with literally any artificer subclass would be amazing. im partial to alchemist myself. if the dm allows you could use song of creation to create components for making potions or things like glass vials if you run out. im realllllly looking into this for my next character concept.
It's one of the bigger issues with the Bard subclasses. If you aren't Lore (magic) or Eloquence (RP/Interaction), the rest of the ones could be replaced with a couple dives into other classes. Easy example: I'm playing a Lore Bard with 2 dips into Hexblade. I now basically can frontline melee wise and AC (18/23 Shield), output massive damage at range, throw some insane spell power (at level 10 I'm rocking a DC 18), and can talk an Eskimo into buying a truck full of fridges. I'm already covering most of the other options around. Subclasses often work well for RP and on paper, but in game mechanics often differ in effectiveness, especially versus other options. There are major balance issues with 5E that need addressing.
How about a multiclass ranking video. You guys are awesome. Thanks for the great videos
THIS WOULD BE AMAZING
I think they did a video of the top 5 Multiclasses.
The college of creation capstone feature feels like a better version of the illusionary reality from the illusion wizard subclass. Then the dancing items themselves are somewhat comparable to the primal companion from ranger. Personally think this subclass is sleeper op if used right and can easily see it being an S tier :3
Was surprised not to see a college of spirits ranking in this video.
I think a really good use of the performance of creation, and something not being said, is making material components for spells. Like for greater restoration, or at higher levels resurrection and true resurrection
Once every subclass has been ranked, are you planning on going back and ranking all subclasses of every class against each other? I imagine we'd see a lot more in D-tier when stacked up against some of the best subclasses in the game.
It has the same problem to me as the Conjuration wizard's Minor Conjuration: the rules for these semi-real magical objects are super confusing and almost all the cool things you'd want to do with the ability could potentially be shot down. Sure, I could have a conversation with my DM and establish they'll be quiter permissive. But we still end up bickering about how the ability works every time it's used, because every situation is different. And fundamentally I just don't like it when sessions devolve into bickering so as a player I just end up never using the ability. As a conjurer I occasionally conjured a chair to sit on and that's about it.
I don't understand why they think using a 2nd level spell to use the creation ability again is a big deal when their comparison is Fabricate, a 4th level spell that also requires material components for making said object.
It's free once per long rest, restores for a spell slot you get 4 levels earlier, and later ignores cost, and gives you multiple items for a single 2nd level spell if you need to use the ability more than once a day.
Side note, Whispers Bard seems perfect for B tier. In a social campaign with more subterfuge, it's an S, and otherwise it's still good, even if some of the abilities become less useful.
You could make material components for spells you or your allies need to cast. Or a ladder/ rope ladder/ grappling hook.
at the start of the episode I was going to make the oar joke... you guys don't disappoint 😂
Yup, College of Creation is very much one of the sandbox subclasses. It's definitely S tier as long as you're creative enough to use it well. There's some awesome ideas in the comments, you get a flying mount at level 6, you can create pricy spell components (heroes feast every day? sure. diamonds worth at least 25k for true resurrection? done.), your Bardic Inspiration is in a way better than all but the Eloquence Bard, you literally are just better at what Bards do than other Bards and you also get the best features from the Conjuration Wizard. You guys said that being at sea or siege may not happen and that somehow makes the subclass less useful. Well, as long as your party is doing anything at all, this class is useful. You can create a cart to travel in (that looks in any way you like), you can create any set of tools, you can animate a carpet to be a flying carpet for an hour for the whole party. That's not to mention creating weapons and armor and spell components. Truly a subclass with endless usefulness, on top of being a full spellcaster with Magical Secrets.
EDIT: Just got to the part when you say "why would I need this ability, when I can use Teleport or Force Cage instead?" Well the answer is because you as a Bard have a very limited number of spells known and using a free ability and then maybe 2nd level spell slot to do it again for 6hrs at a time is better than using a 6th level spell slot for a similar effect. If this ability for the cost of a 2nd level spell slot provides an alternative to so many spells between level 2 and 6 that you don't have the room for, it's a pretty damn good ability.
Definitely S guys, unless you have a shitty DM.
I couldn't agree more. While there are many applications of these features where spells can be more effective at accomplishing the same thing, it is often for higher cost, like higher level spell slots, as you mentioned. And the sheer versatility of creating objects is staggering, it's a good one a day power, and even with the limitations when you first get it at 3rd level, it's among the best things you can do for a second level spell slot, and at later levels it's incredible for a second level slot. Hard to beat putting a 15 foot cube aoe of enemies into an adamantine box for hours with no concentration for the low low price of one second level slot. S in my opinion, unless nerfed beneath RAI.
@@aikendrum3228 yeah haha. Soul cage? Behold my free 15x15x15 box of lead!
So you can make a rowboat without oars, but you can make a cart with wheels? Would a sailboat have sails?
Are you guys going to look at the Undead warlock? It looks really cool but I really want to hear you guy’s opinions on it.
They already discussed it in warlock videos
@@trynt_xasan No they haven't. They tackled the Undying but not the Undead. Don't believe they've tackled either of the subclasses in VR yet.
Obviously, with Performance of Creation vs Fabricate there's a lot of differences. For example, the Bard gets PoC at 3rd level where Fabricate requires a Magical Secrets slot and (as a 4th level spell) won't be available till 7th level at the earliest.
I like how 5e's maturing in terms of giving the ability to use spell slots for additional use of features (and suggest homebrewing this into older content). I don't see PoC as "costing" a second level spell slot...I see it having an option to do so if you need PoC again before the character's next long rest.
the bard makes a giant stone golem and then the wizard animates it LOL
Since we are on the topic of college of creation bard I did want to bring up a ruling for clarification. When you get your Performance of Creation it states "once you create an ITEM with this feature, you can't do so again until you finish a long rest, unless you spend a spell slot of 2nd level or higher to use this feature again." Again at 14th level with Creative Crescendo "When you use your Performance of Creation feature, you can create more than one item at a once. The number of items equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of two items)." I made the word items in Performance of Creation in all caps because the rule says you can create only one free item per long rest, not use the ability once per long rest. Does this mean that when you create multiple items at level 14, if you wanted to create a siege weapon (catapult) and 4 pieces of ammunition (assuming CHA 20) then you would only get one item for free and must spend all 3 2nd level spell slots and a 3rd level spell slot to get both the catapult and all ammunition? If I continue a deep look within Performance of Creation it says a 2nd level or higher to use this feature, not create an additional item. So does it ultimately boil down to the first question or is it 1 free item per long rest plus whenever you spend a 2nd level spell slot or higher you can create multiple items equal to your CHA modifier? ultimately as I see it written you would get only 1 free item per long rest, the question is can one spell slot create 1 item or multiple at level 14?
It would be interesting for a creation bard to reskin all of their spells into created objects.
Did you factor in how much longer performance of creation objects last relative to fabricated objects or the like?
For me this would definitely depend on the DM . with one of our DM's this would be an S tier subclass with another of our DM's this would be a D and possibly an F or a G ranking .
You shouldn't rate a class based on whether or not a DM is going to nerf it. By raw this glass can create spell components, wizard scribing components, and you can animate equipped items on another creature. It's insanely good
@@override367 I play D&D for fun , why would I choose a subclass that I know a particular DM will make a character boring and unenjoyable to play because of their play style .