I love the concept of master modes and the fact that it makes multicrew and large ships more effective but I just can't get used to it. It just doesn't feel natural.
Finally someone with a good head on his shoulders saying the truth n putting blame on the actual issues rather than on MM. A1’s recent video on this that ppl r referring to seems more like a sore loser’s rant …. 2v2 and he couldn’t do anything cause all he does is run and shield up which is exactly what the devs found annoying and wanted to end with MM.
I couldn't care less about MM. I care that roc mining is unplayable. Box missions are a joke, drug trading got removed. All trades are forced to end on cities on plannets that are so bugged that they make me refuse doing hauling altogether. The game is horrible right now with the exception of salvaging and ship mining.
I pretty much haven't touched the game since MM went live. Felt awful when I tried it and had no interest in "testing it" further. That along with all the other BS CIG is coming up with has put this project in a prolonged "wait and see" status. Maybe in a few years it will coalesce into something that makes sense but my hopes aren't high. Right now the game is dogshit in pretty much every regard. EDIT: Also kinda weird you call it "bad player salt" when allegedly the whole point is that CIG wants to make it accessible to the bad players.
>Also kinda weird you call it "bad player salt" It highly depends on definition of a "bad player". I bet Buzz didn't meant "suckers" but more like "bad companions".
What do you mean "in a few years"? Assuming CIG is still in business .... you will go back to see SC at 1.0? I'm hoping that everything will be fixed by SC 1.0, but I doubt we will see 1.0 any time soon. I'll be happy if 4.0 isn't a broken mess like 3.0 was.
Light fighters should blow everything out of the water up to and including Hammerheads 100% of the time. Anyone who bought any other ship besides a light fighter should have just lit their money on fire and flushed it. The best version of Star Citizen would mean everyone used the same light fighter. The game and the meta should always stay the same. That's total sarcasm, but that's what some of you sound like.
The concurrent online player count dropped precipitously after CIG implemented MM according to publicly available data. The amount varies, but estimates place the present number at 20% what it was under the Newtonian flight system.
@@BuzzCutPsycho But you wrong, space is not a barbie place, that why lot of people did buy the game - because it was not a arcade space, what it is now!
@@paulstraszewski736 oh shutup. How about you read what you just wrote and try and comprehend just how stupid you look? MM aint going anywhere and at this point I'm taking great pleasure in watching morons like you suffer over this game not being what they want it to be. Grow up, go outside and get a life. You loser. I swear to God everyone in the comments who uses their real name as an online handle is a brain dead idiot. You are no exception.
Being a backer for over 10 years and following this project for 12 years, I've always been with the understanding that Star Citizen would be a 6DoF Space Combat simulation game (among other professions). Such that, the expectation is that the flight model more closely coincides with those mechanics and deeper complexities. The compartmentalization of all these 'Modes' goes somewhat counter, IMO, to that end. Sure, I get that they want to make a fun and little to no barrier to entry game. However, I do not feel they can do this while staying true to a Newtonian Physics Space Simulation combat game. Star Citizen does not need to be another on rails Star Wars space battle game. That was never the direction and concept of the game from the beginning. There are some fundamental things wrong with Master Modes that need to be addressed. Maneuverability profiles, ship mass, control surfaces(atmospheric flight) etc, all need to be reworked. i.e. A light-med fighter should predominantly be more maneuverable versus a Vanguard (and above). They should have more strafing capability (within the profile/speeds of the engagement) based on mass/thruster output etc. Larger ships simply are not built for such encounters. Vanguard should have much more armor, less maneuverability etc. Even more so, a Hammerhead shouldn't easily be able to be taken down by a few light fighters in an engagement. But then again, those larger ships (esp. with turrets) need to have a muilt-crew to reach their intended potential. All in all, gimping the maneuverability profiles of ships (up until let's say an F8C) gives less options for creative fun encounters in ship combat. Putting more and more artificial control (i.e. landing gear / SCM speed constraints) and a multitude of modes seems just not the right direction.
It still is a 6DOF flight model. You can disable the landing gear slow down, etc. This game will never be realistic. CIG has stated numerous times they want to dial "realism up than dial it back for fun" - As an original 10+ backer you should know that last part.
@@BuzzCutPsycho The landing gear as it currently is and how it works, does not make adequate sense. Sure, no one has to use it. Though what's the point of having it then... SCM and it's notable speed slowdown/constraints doesn't feel right. The maneuverability profile as it stands now is not one that I think is well modeled and missing other factors. (Perhaps those will be brought in/tuned later). The transition between NAV/SCM and the other modes within (FLT/QTM/SCN etc..) and how they operate does not feel right 'to me'. They want to force players into close quarter combat, and their justification is the fun-factor of that. Well, there are 'some' elements I can partially agree on for that. However, by doing that, they start to restrict other things regarding flight and the freedom to operate. Simply put, if one wants to have have a good shot at taking out an opposing enemy in a dogfight, one should monitor their speeds, distance to the target, convergence sweet spot and the types of weapons used. SCM feels more like I'm forced into following some rule-set that is not a true freedom of flight 6DoF scenario. I feel more restricted in what I can do and frankly the ship just doesn't respond well enough (at least right now) during combat, IMO. It feels like the above matters less in the scheme of things.
If you want realism, the combat meta would be about drones, long-range missiles and computer-controlled precision weapons that would end most engagements without crewed ships ever coming into visual contact. I don't think you want realism. You just want to draw the fun/realism line in a different place. And that's fine.
In my opinion, the criticism of master modes comes not only from the pvp community, but also from players who started playing SC because of the simulation values and, as such, realism and immersion. I'm not a pvp player, but I'll speak from my own perspective as someone focused on the more casual aspects of the game. While I understand that MM will probably remain and offer new, interesting possibilities, it seems to me that most people judge it through the prism of poor implementation and completely screwed up ship balance. With MM came this crazy balance and many ships that were once fun to use, now move sluggishly and flying them is simply boring. And most people don't think about whether their bad experiences are due to MM or the fact that CIG has changed the statistics of a given ship and the average multi-role freelancer now moves like a typical hauler or a much larger Andromeda. In addition, there is an artificial and immediate brake when switching modes, or inconsistent black outs, which spoil the immersion. The game went in the arcade direction, and this could have been avoided. However, I agree that talking about how MM are the source of all evil is cherry picking in an extremely weak form. Evaluating the impact of MM on a game where half of the missions don't work and you have to make an effort to find something interesting to do makes no sense at all. Unfortunately, both players and creators try to show the positive or negative impact of MM on player engagement, and in the current state of the game this is not the biggest problem.
Avenger one had a good take on this. MM is not fun. When I started back in 3.14 I had no clue what I was doing, so you know what I did? I went out and learned by watching people who knew how to pvp and then practiced to up my skill.
@@BuzzCutPsycho absolutely not. I wouldn’t even consider myself in the top 50%. I don’t get enough playtime with having a full time and a family. I just got good enough to handle myself in the pu to fight and get away. Flying just feels slower. I like the idea of MM just not the application. For instance, if you want to go top speed you shouldn’t be able to have full shields. I’d like to see MM more focused around the power triangle. One thought I had at the intro of MM was when entering the zones around space stations you should have disable shields/weapons or be considered hostile. I’m not an expert in game development and I’m definitely not an expert in SC. I’m just an average guy that wants to feel like I’m flying fast through space and currently I don’t.
MM is fun… A1 got his ass handed to him in FoF 2v2 cause he couldn’t use his shitty strats … I’m sorry buddy running away all the time (old flight model) isn’t “fun” it was plain annoying.
It jist your master A1 being bad. There are still very good pilots in MM who dont need to fly interceptor in chicken style to be good and stomp on other players. Unfortunatelly for you and A1 you are not one of them.
Since mm dropped I stopped doing bounties because it feels way harder now and I get blown up every time. Having a 30g break in the Mode where you are supposed to have less thruster energy is just weird and my fury lx is now useless because a racing ship with no wheapons is now locked to 240m/s.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Yes You can. But locking Racing to SCM Would be even worse. Maybe as a separate category but racing at those speeds is the whole appeal to even do racing in SC.
I wouldn’t mind MM in pvp but just flying around scraping or mining or hauling it just makes it annoying to fly and that’s why I don’t like it. It just makes it tedious to fly your ship around especially if you have to constantly be managing what mode your in if your mining or scraping in the mole or reclaimer and you forget to leave nav mode you can’t use the scrapers or lasers and if your not in nav mode you fly like 40 miles an hour
What you said @salt_detector3571 💯. While I practice combat, out of necessity because it's part of the game, I'm primarily focused around industry. From my perspective MM isn't enjoyable, either way, and it's why I haven't played SC since shortly after MM was implemented.
But... flying is boring now, I feel like there's no where to go with it. The game feels totally different and I don't enjoy it any more. MM came along with the best patch the game has ever had, it was never in a better place but MM soiled it for me
@@emmaquarzpeng gonna be even later cause 4.0 is going to be a bigger mess, don't listen to this game, best shape sc has ever been in was earlier this year and late last year
You say the numbers are low because the game sucks, sure yeah but it sucked for a long time before as well. I obviously can only speak for myself and the friends i used to play with, but mm is THE reason we quit. I'm genuinely not in favour of bringing back the old flight model entirely, i think it was cheesy and stupid, but mm is boring as dogshit man. I wasn't an expert in the previous model and I'm not an expert in mm, but at least i could have some fun before. Now it just feels like every 1v1 is a fucking single circle turn fight and whoever has more guns wins 🥱😴 I'm back to war thunder to satisfy my pvp cravings for now
The point of master modes is to make flying easier for players especially new player. And they only way to make it easier is to make it simpler. People forget it was the intricate complexity of the flight model that originally drew players to the game. Call it what you will it a bait and switch the advertisemented complexity and switch to arcade style flight while ignoring backer inputs. And tricording can be fixed without MM
@@carlosfernandez7706 it's at least a start to mature the model. What they had was garbage and I have zero idea how you would ever rectify that model with atmosphere/space. Trichording was a huge problem. It was not realistic from a physical perspective (g forces on the pilot, stress on the aircraft) and was a bad mechanic for gameplay. Imagine any other game where you learn ONE mechanics and become unbeatable
@@Anticl1matic servers are 40/100 most the time. Used to be always full. AC is basically dead always. My org used to be packed. No more than 4 are in discord and no more org events, used to have 5 min big events a week with over 10 members each. Most events had 20. You can lie to yourself. But not me
You have to be careful though with dumbing down systems and making them generic for the general population because this is a motto MANY games have followed and in a lot of cases, it results in stale and boring gameplay.
just simply look how planetside 2 smh is more fun than the over sophisticated battlefield from ea. I dont think i met outside of leauge of legends, people playing multiplayer shooter and not bothering about their low spec laptops.
What did they dumb down? Something that was objectively bad, shallow and already... yes... dumb?! This game has had a shit FM since day 1. MM is a step in the right direction. CIG just have no idea what they are doing in general. Which is why MM sucks. Also
If accessability is a good thing (and I fully agree), then how is MM a good change? CIG try to press a WW2 and a newtonian 6 DoF together into one, which cannot work, and MM is the weird child of that stupid idea.
It is a videogame, it is not a spaceship sim. It is full of arcade conventions even without MM. Speed limiters, "maximum speed" for instance - there is no such thing as "maximum speed' in space in "newtonian physics". Endlessly accelerating ship in space can reach any speed - 5km/s, 50km/s 5000km/s, it doesn't matter. Yet we had 1.5km/s speed limit before MM - where you worried about that? How about laser "projectiles" and their speed? How about missiles leaving ship and lagging behind it because "ship flies faster"? This is all rediculous already , why not press WW2.
@@BuzzCutPsychoyour whole point of view is actually pathetic. It’s a game that sold 750 mil to a niche community touting physics models. Non PvP people also hate it. It’s boring. It went from light fighter meta to snub.
Multi crew needs a huge buff. I play free fly in AC almost daily and never see multiple people crewing large ships. Master modes didn't go far enough. CIG should buff turrets so they have massive range and can actually touch light fighters.
Yes, they suck. Large ships have always had this artificial handicap. They are big, so they need more crew members. How? By crippling them and taking away pilot control. By making all turrets manually operated. By giving people arbitrary tasks that are not necessary. Things nobody really wants to do but puts up with because they are playing Star Citizen. Probably the best course of action (my thoughts, not fact) for Multi crew I think would be to replace all manual turrets with automatic ones and put a single crew member (or even multiple ones) in charge of giving them targets and fire orders (as in: Free Fire, ROE, Hold fire, Manual fire or Full, Burst, yada yada). Weapons officer so to speak. Same person might be in charge of the shields, countermeasures and radar, or it could be split up. This person might have to manage power to individual turrets, weapon groups, this and that. Target weak spots on large enemy ships and coordinate with the pilot. Combat in large ships should play as a strategy game rather than a fast paced adrenaline rush. Otherwise why not just fly a small fighter that's more powerful and harder to hit? At the same time I think they also need to give turrets their own weapons different from fighters to give bigger ships a better chance. More range, more shots/ammo. And better tracking, otherwise skilled fighters will just outfly them and we're back to square one. Realistically any large ship would have point defenses against smaller fighters, while their main firepower is large cannons in order to attack other large ships. There's a lot of fun balancing tasks that you could give people to do... Could. I doubht CIG will manage though.
@Pixelthekid ,you think people will just sit in their turrets all day? No ,that's ludicrous. The same as a modern naval vessel, Everyone has a normal job until the all hands to battle stations is called.
If you looked at the votes during the ship showdown you’d notice the player base is getting crappy. Over 5 million citizens but about 40k voting in the showdown. Say what you will about MM love it or hate it but it’s had an effect on players and that’s something you can’t deny. I can’t say either way at the moment. I can’t even retrieve my ship since 3.24 went live so I haven’t played.
2954 - c1 vs lightning was 28625 votes. (70706 total for lightning) 2953 - corsair vs vulture was 20000 votes (46797 votes for corsair) 2952 - carrack vs msr - 29,000 votes ( 63k votes total for carrack) 2951 - no data on mpuv vs msr but mpuv was at 58784 votes total. Your ship showdown argument showing the 'numbers aren't doing well" is pretty bogus. I'll figure 3.18 hurt SC more than anything else
@@BuzzCutPsycho duplicated post. 👇 Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
>but it’s had an effect on players and that’s something you can’t deny. No, it doesn't. Check SC daily online count in last 6 months. MM was introduced in May. Online was 70k in May, it is 70k now. There is simply no effect on most of active players.
The thing is I always viewed and will view MM as additive to the larger scope. I am still in the camp of "I feel the need for speed" and that the ample reduction of speed has hurt the feel of jet fighters in space into propeller aircraft in space. HOWEVER Without the addition of armor, component, shields and re-tiering of weaponry MM is only half the story we're looking at. The blueprint is on the board and all we see right now is the foundation without any of the structure for space combat. What I sort of expect that ships will have in the future. Damage 2.0 (comprising of shields, component, armor and weapons) will further differentiate combat gear. Meaning fighters will have its own specialized category of armor, shielding, component, and weapons. The whole Size X is going to go away for Fighter, Corvette, and Heavy class component system. This specialization will allow for more optimal game balance between lets say a Hornet vs a Conne vs Polaris. Giving multi-crew ships that much needed boost in effectiveness while allowing fighters to do what they were meant to do...that is screen heavier ships, escort specialized craft to deal with mutli-crew ships and be the tip of the spear when it comes to raiding. As it stands right now with the current systems fighters are just swiss army knives for everything, there's no point to heavier class of ship other than cargo space. MM and Damage 2.0 once they release it will offer a means to give each ship in the game their needed roles. Something this game needs right now for the health of it. There's really no reason to spend 600 on a Polaris when you can buy a F8C on sale for half the cost, or a Hornet II for 170. Damage 2.0 will also solve issues surrounding MM as well, namely flight speed. Imagine ability to change out your thrusters, primary engine for better parts. Im talking the core components, how about those fuel intakes or a ton of subsystems now on the board for the player to tune their fighter to their specifications. Want more flight speed, well you're going to have to drop a tonnage of armor to balance out thrust to weight...or replace the current engines for overclocked versions that have a 10% failure chance if you redline them. The previous systems wouldn't allow for such and if anything if they did the meta would be buy these X items, to add to your ship and boom 100% kill everything only for that to be boring as well. Also someone whose whole org is about Creating and selling gear to other Orgs and having their own Paramilitary army at their call. I support MM because the ability to push flight speed with crafting better propulsion systems, thrusters, armor and other gear is a gameplay loop ready to be born if CIG pulls the trigger. I mean 200m/s in combat speed but with my brand engines that I'll sell for a nice premium you can push it up to 300m/s and redline at 350m/s until they give out on you. So the salt mine of MM is just people who are too short sighted on what is over the horizon....god how will they act when they finally implement Damage 2.0 soon after Engineering is put into the game.
@@doubledigital_ See and that's what would make Star Citizen actually great. The ability to full on salvage ships, build them and even sell them 2nd hand. Sure the NPC ship market exists to be a money sink but the player economy is where most games shine and when you do not have that player economy or limit it, it just overall hurts the appeal.
I really hope damage 2,0 solves everything because I am tired of how frail ALL ships feel. I hate just BLOWING UP and not being disabled. I really do. Ideally, in my mind, barring some INSANE firepower, explosion should be rare and a ship is TORN TO PEICES instead.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Agreed, the current soft-death system just sucks because all it does is put the ship into a mess that the player can get stuck in at times.
Sadly, I am one of the people that dislike Master Modes. It's great that you are loving the direction that Master Modes has taken. Unfortunately, I am on the brink of moving on from this game as it has ruined the best part of Star Citizen for me, Flight and Combat. I guess our voices do not matter.
@@BuzzCutPsychoduplicated post. 👇 Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
I 100% disagree with basicly everything you said. My Background I am an original backer from the kickstarter days. I've played off and on since the start, but I played every major patch. Im 99% Pve focused and only pvped greifers or defending myself or friends. Im not a light fighter andy, I preferred the medium to heavy fighters. But I took the time and put the hours in to become very good at flying. I wasnt the best like the top pvpers, but I was very good and could take on the medium skilled pvpers pretty well. I put around 200 hours into the ptu testing MM and another 300-400 hours after it launched. And MM and flight mode changes have ruined the fun of flying for me. Flying around and doing bounty missions, cargo or even just goofing around isnt fun anymore. And If flying isnt fun why play SC.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Like I said I really dont pvp. only PVP group fights I did were griefers. But that has nothing to do with how flying feels right now. Its bad and not fun compared to what it used to be. Thats the only point Im saying. And if the core gameplay of SC isnt fun why play? Im not saying it isnt fun for you or other people but it seems to me out of the people who have an opinion that theres is more people that dont like it then do. While I think most players dont care either way.
@@BuzzCutPsycho your video may have been focused about combat, but MM is not solely that. It is the flight model all ships have to follow. There are a lot of poor choices that were made with MM.
@@Metallas its also bare bones as they have noted dozens of times that MM is not even complete and wont be complete until Damage and Engineering come into the game itself.
@@grygaming5519 true but that could also apply to the entire project. Or the flight model could be scrapped and reiterated yet again. Time will tell the main question is how much of the player base will run out of time before the project ever gets “finished”
@@BuzzCutPsycho Artificially low speed caps, boost only increases speed until you stop boosting, gimmicky ship mechanics that subvert more realistic physics or currently accepted FTL concepts. And then all of those hard limts even apply to a decoupled mode. Thing is most games RP all those hard limits such as a max speeds, boost fade, and other non-newtonian aeroplanes in space styled flight as fly-by-ware computer controlled overrides to keep your ship inside a handling envelope to keep you from making major mistakes that will end you. But you can always override those by going decoupled and now you are at the mercy of your own skills for maintaining your safety. With no real limits, and no protections from making screw ups, like reaching a high enough velocity it takes you until next Tuesday to stop.
Stop with the realistic/arcade argument. Honestly its just plain bad. Never was realistic and never will be. The old flight mode wasnt realistic also the new one either. This whole argument just makes your side look bad for the MM people. MM needs a lot of work but fundamentals are there. How would you changed the old flight model so it wouldn’t be speedy fighter meta for the elite sweats with +5 yojsticks and head trackers and such.
@@gabor5079 So then define what it would mean to be realistic to you. Are you simply saying we should rule out all theoretical tech? Because outside some fantasy FTL travel, the game was relatively realistic with a reasonable restriction on the top end. I would have liked it to go further into the realism with a splash of sci fi myself, but I'm one of the few that loved the Independence War series. MM needs so much work, it'll wind up resembling pre-MM again.
@@nuanil realistic space flight? Done by drones that has no main thruster. Just purely 6dof zig zag machine that can withstand powerfull G forces. Unlike the human body that can sustain maybe 7. But we want star wars or battlestar galactica type fighter combat. And for that we must make it not realistic. The question is that where were we draw then line.
Man mm sucks. Even pve sucks. If ur on a slow server u can kill ur bounty before they notice you, but if ur on a good server it's like walking head first into 3-6 flying turrets. And ur too slow to even get behind them.
Fly decoupled and don't go straight at them. If you are getting hit then you need to increase your distance from the target while increasing angular momentum. The mobs literally are incapable of shooting a target moving over a certain angular velocity relative to them.
>but if ur on a good server it's like walking head first into 3-6 flying turrets. And ur too slow to even get behind them. You are not supposed to take out solo multiple targets each having more HP and DPS than you. Btw, do permanent screwcork when attacking AI, keep distance like 1-1.3km, at this distance it is impossible to hit target shooting at PiP if target constantly changes flight direction. Because PiP "predicts" target position if target moves in straight direction. When you do screwcork this prediction doesn't work, PiP moves by circles showing position where you will never be. AI doesn't understand this, and miss permanently, you just need to find proper strafe/roll ratio. Server FPS in this case doesn't matter, because PiP will not work properly even at 100fps.
I'm still on the fence whether I like or dislike MM. There is however one change that needs to happen, and that is related to shields. Not having shields during nav mode is fine except when you are QT'ing. I have been on the receiving end and dishing out end of players getting yanked out of QT and getting absolutely destroyed because they can't get their shields on or up before being destroyed. That's a huge problem for any size ship considering you have just reduced the time to kill down to seconds. And now with precision mode any size ship that gets pulled from QT is going to loose 100% of the time unless their attackers are extremely outnumbered. It would be really cool as an improvement to MM that you have the ability to have your shields on, but it shares power with the QT drive. So you could keep things like they are now and zip around the system with fully powered QT, making travel extremely fast. Or you could half your power to QT and half it to the shields. Shields would be at 50% and your QT wouldn't be able to reach top speeds but you are sacrificing speed for protection. Something like that would be cool and make traveling more in depth but we will see.
Ovewrlooked are the huge number of platers who dont do thew whole light fighter thing at all. MM has messed up non combat ships quite badly. That's the elephant in the room. You're out there in a Vulture and some kid shows in an F7, you may as well just Alt F4, you can't run and you can't fight. But if you could keep up shields, running away and QT to safewty was an option. So MM is a problem looking for a solution.
Honestly I kinda dig that part of MM. You have a dedicated working vessel and he has a dedicated light fighter. Your the sheep, hes the Wolf. Thats Rock paper Siccors balancing. Yk, the one that made Battlefield big before they forgot about it
@little_lord_tam if ot had consequences then.just maybe. But it doesn't so that's poor choices again. By your logic, which holds some water, why is the aforementioned Vulture (or Prospector or Hull A etc) even armed and given shields? MM is basically bad. The arguments I've seen suggesting there's a connection with server performance do come over as persuasive. CR wants "Pacific War in space" yet evolved a situation where one Zero can sink a US cruiser, if not a carrier, and live to brag about it. That's wrong at "start over and get it right next time" level. MM was clearly not properly tested, or even thought through, outside the light fighter environment. Couple that with the execitive idea that it's all about said environment and you've a foul up in the making.
@@andrewfanner2245 1. I neither enjoy MM nor the exploit heavy system before that. CIG's Vision is flawed imo and their not even achieving that one. 2. Working vessels need self defense tools because it forces pirates to actualy bring combat vessels. Its an armsrace kind of thing
@little_lord_tam the tools, clearly designed without considering MM are sufficiently inadequate that canning MM is the better call. For working ships see also starters barring the Titan, now "curiously" a combat meta.
Imo the issue with Master Modes (and by extend, most of the previous FMs), is that CIG doesn't iterate on them. They've introduced some big changes, some for the better, others for the worse. The players that dislike certain new features/changes usually have a valid point. But instead of trying to combine the best features from the new and the old FM, CIG tells the players that they wont make any big changes before 4.0, so the disappointed players will leave. And they've done this with every FM since 3.0 dropped. They NEED to continue adjusting MM and try out different approaches. Actually, I was hoping they would do this with the experimental modes...
Hard pass. Flying in master modes simply feels like crap. Fighting in master modes is just a shift from a trichording meta to a DPS race + pop noise & nav out meta. There are still OP meta ships just like before. Good players can still stomp on groups of less skilled players just like before. Light fighters can still solo AI Redeemers and Hammerheads. It's all just a bit less fun now. Focusing on the current state of ship combat balance in the game is mostly pointless because we know that everything is changing again post 4.0 so why even bother. Would love to see their active player data. That would settle the question of whether ship combat changes are helping to make the game a better product or not.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Are you saying there was a funding increase because so many existing players loved MM that they pledged extra? Why didn't you lead with that info in this video then? Sounds like it would be quite compelling if you could make that connection.
@BuzzCutPsycho funding, percent growth is not even breaking typical cost of living 3%. Not to mention ILW biggest ship sale ever ie quality of ships. More sales this year total. Finally expect a huge IAE with new ships then previous ones. Cig is pulling out big holds, f8c, titans to barely break previous records.
MM is an endless good player salt mine. Sure we can exploit the current meta, like ramming in a Hammerhead, or flying backwards in a corsair, but is this really what you call skill based? Recent Fight or Flight tournament was amazing, but only because it banned medium and heavy fighters.
MM feels bad even for salvage and mining. It’s not intuitive feels unnatural. It’s immersion shattering. I think it’s not appropriate to tar every feedback giver with the same brush here. Since MM came out of ptu and especially since yogis comments feedback has been crazy negative. This is even before A1s video. From many different game loops the most common theme is it feels less fun. Jarring and generally janky as all hell. Yogi might have misspoke but until he clarifies it seems like they are going to let this flight system rewrite fester in the community till after 4.0 is out. Which is just insane to me from a software development perspective. No software development company worth a damn would drop something internally developed like this into a broad community and then have no resources to acknowledge, triage, iterate and implement fixes for right after release. It’s an abject failure of an open development model they claim to support
You're wrong. But it's ok to be wrong. MM makes the game that much better. It slows combat down, makes it way more visceral and cinematic. It makes flying much more fun. Salvaging stayed basically the same. Did you salvage over 200 scm? I don't think so. What is immersion breaking? That you have to switch mode when you want to change location? It's MORE immersive.
@@captainharlock3998 I disagree, mode switching is jarring, space has drag, I don’t need to think about how to stop by a resource node the space break stops me basically instantly. There’s no drag in space, the pilot shouldn’t survive the space break gforce, no shields when in nav. It’s all just a bit contrived. If you were having problems keeping your speed under control without master modes, that’s simply a skill issue, nothing more. It’s ok to have different opinions, but it’s a grade school fact space has no drag and coming to an abrupt stop would be dangerous. Even kids learn that pretty quickly
@@Anonymous-m9f9j space has no drag, your ship's computer make the deceleration. fly in decoupled always, and you'll have no drag. Besides, SC, since it's very inception, never tried to be a space sim in terms of mechanics. Space Sim was solely used to describe it as a space genre, like ED, and NMS. Not like hardcore sim mechanics like those who are wrong about SC seem to think it should be.
Honestly o think the discussion is the best part. I agree with some parts of A1s vid, i also agree with some parts here. I think that master modes is just a poor implementation of the concept they were trying to achieve. I mean did they try do what seems to work for 99% of other mmos to lower combat speeds without impacting travel ? Which would be to essentially automatically switch you to SCM if you become "in combat" or some tools to snare "reduce the speed" of someone you are engaging, like swapping out a weapon or 2 for a type that causes reduces scm speed effect to prevent rogues and rangers... I mean interceptors always running away.
Well this video was not really a response to the A1 video. It was recorded before his was out. My next one is more detailed and is a response to him and others like him.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I mean sure it's not a response, I merely mentioned I've seen both and they are from opposing viewpoints. Both of which have some valid points and some I feel a bit biased by experiences. Regardless, I think the SC community needs to start voting with their wallets.
Oh, hey, I'm going too fast. Let me hit this deceleration button. Oh, I'm still going too fast. Hey, I have another magic deceleration button called my landing gear. I believe in Yogi and his team and I agree that we needed to be slowed down. Something needed to change.. However, master modes is still Inelegant, unbelievable garbage. My brain simply refuses to believe That I'm playing an actual simulator in space. For instance, Star Citizen doesn't seem to have this particular physical law. Newton's First Law of Motion states that a body at rest will remain at rest unless an outside force acts on it, and a body in motion at a constant velocity will remain in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force. If a body experiences an acceleration ( or deceleration) or a change in direction of motion, it must have an outside force acting on it. Outside forces are sometimes called net forces or unbalanced forces. The property that a body has that resists motion if at rest, or resists speeding or slowing up, if in motion, is called inertia. Inertia is proportional to a body's mass, or the amount of matter that a body has. The more mass a body has, the more inertia it has. Go out into the middle of the solar system between the planets, go as fast as you can with your Nav on, and then shut your engines off. You will slow down. It'll take a little while, but you slow down. This suggests that CIG's space has a special type of fluid dynamics that doesn't exist in our universe. Also, I've always been garbage at PVP and I look forward to the next set of tweaks to the flight model.
@@BuzzCutPsycho You're absolutely right. Mostly I'm just Bitter about my ghost being stomped on by the new flight model. Can't be sneaky sneaky in nav mode. Makes me feel like I have to fly my F7A Mark II. However, I still have fun in my 325 and 315p.
I'm a bad pilot but I enjoy MM way more before people fucked off as soon as their shields were down and there was nothing you could do. Now they have to turn off their weapons shields and counter measures so at least I can force them to slow down again by firing a missile. I do think that fighters need a bit more agility tho but all of this is a question of tuning. I'm sure MM isn't perfect but at least you can end a fight now.
I can't remember a system that's been introduced to the game that has upset so many people. There has to be a point where, whether CIG change it or not, you accept that a large chunk of the player base despise MM for subjective yet valid reasons. Ultimately, it will be the money that makes the decision. CIG seem very short-termist about that right now.
Unless other people pay money for people to play your game [esports] those top 1% can get flushed every week and the majority of the games population will never notice. The top 1% of in any game, no matter how loud are the eaiester group to replace that generate the least amount of profit. Losing the 1% that is there "now" is easily replaced and opens up space for newer 99% players. The games that cater to that 1% fail nearly all the time. Only CSgo really caters to it and is "profitable" because it makes money of it being an esport. Valve could lose 1mil$ an hour on csgo and not notice. That top 1% are the most disposable player and often times where the worst "design" decisions comes from as it is a myopic focus on how to make the game fun for them so that it remains within their control.
Fine with MM but tricording is realistic. Thought that was what this project was about. Found the spectrum post from CIG was rather insulting even for me and I do pvp rarely.
Tricording is NOT realistic in terms of spaceship engeneering. If you have a reactor that transforms fuel into energy to provide thrust, this reactor has limited capacity, say a 100% capacity at a time. These 100% of total capacity all should be able to be applied to forward moving (march) thrusters to provide max acceleration to the direction your ship needs to go, and if you need a maneuvering thrusters correction, you take some part of these 100%, say 15% for feeding those maneuvering thrusters, thus leaving only 85% to feed march (forward moving) thrusters, that is it. You may say that each thruster could have its own reactor, but if so, why boost applies to all thrusters at the same time by pressibg one button? Do you think that maneuvering thrusters have their own afterburner chambers? I dont think so. The forward moving must privide max acceleration, period.
As a new player i have no issue with MM. As a non combat player, MM is great. If I don't want to fight i have an option to run. A skilled player or team may still manage to take me down but it was at least possible. They way the old system is explained i could never shake off a more skilled player. They could go faster than my industrial ship while shooting me to pieces. SCM and NAV mode give me a chance
They really should just scrap it all. They wont, but they should. Tune the speeds within one bubble, weapon range, projectile life, GET FREAKING ARMOR IN THE GAME, stop trying to make space combat like wwII dogfights. Star Wars is a movie. If we are playing a space sim bound to our understanding of Newtonian physics, then let it be that. There is plenty of atmo for that type of dogfighting, yeah? If I was the boss of everyone, I would scrap it along with the jank HUD ui elements. Start tuning by bringing the ratio of main thrusters power to maneuvering thrusters WAY up. Flatten that bubble a little bit. But Im not the boss of everyone.
Chris Roberts has a long history of making WWII dogfighting in space, while it sounded at first like it was going to be more Newtonian than previous endeavors it was never going to be full Newtonian. It is extremely difficult to make a full Newtonian flight model actually fun while still appealing to wider audiences.
I'd agree if tri-chording didn't take all of 5 minutes to explain, but that CIG never cared to inform players. MM is doomed, it will always feel bad for the reasons above.
@@dex6147in 2013, CR wrote a paper which is still on RSI website. Speaks about trichording and a fun and exciting 6dof flight model. This is what they sold for a decade then switched without asking anyone. They didn’t ask or tell community until announcing they did it 2 years into dev of this shit model. In the past, they asked us if we wanted to increase scope and people were excited about it. Small minority like master modes and it’s bad for the longevity of the game. You have to be smooth brained to think it’s a good model.
There‘s a reason why Elite Dangerous still hasn‘t died despite mountains of horrible developer decisions, the reason is the flying, specifically the combat flying in it is extremely fun. Absolute freedom for the player, the only limitations in place are to make sure that the game engine and the player can somewhat handle the flight model. And it‘s glorious. Star Citizen was like that, once. I‘d argue it was even better. Now it feels terrible, PvE fights have you constantly hugging the enemies, constantly worrying about getting rammed because everything moves so slow, i feel like i‘ve lost all control, can‘t decide when to close in or extend any more. Was never much of a PvPer but could hold my own in Arrow duels, and was pretty decent with the Vanguard as well. Now after coming back to the game with MM, i don‘t even want to try. Duels will just be obnoxious dps races and group fights will be the same crap as before except you now have to toggle funni speeeed mode to relocate after disengaging. And solo light fighter vs group? Forget it, i‘d just get bumrushed, not a chance any more. Really not seeing the appeal.
Since 3.3.3, I was playing mostly as a bounty hunter with lot of PvP bounties. But I drop doing that in 3.8 because of : - Excessive bug usage (I don't like to play against cheaters) - Excessive broken meta (I don't own the meta ship) - The added initial mission to unlock PvP what we need to redo after each character reset / repair and which is really annoying to accomplish. Currently, I still don't plan to do it again while the st*pid mission to unlock PvP bounties is still there, as well as the missile bug usage… But, for the few time I did some PvP combat with MM, it was quite interesting.
You know I totally forgot about the endless mission unlock stuff that kept happening over the micro wipes during 3.23. I remember moving all my stuff and the next day having to do it again. Then the following micro patch next week the same thing. That broke me.
I agree with you 100%! Especially the part about Hornet MK2. The happiest time to play with MM in AC was 3.23PTU, when there were no 90% Hornets in a match, and could see that all ships had their place.
I'm not a sweaty pvp nerd and I don't like MM. I'm more than happy to get shit on by a skilled pilot because that inspires me to get better. MM feels like garbage and I can HONESTLY say I have been playing less since. There's more to do than ever before so that's not why numbers are dropping.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I was under the impression that this game is supposed to have combat simulation but when they dumb down and artificially restrict speed and movement it just feels lame. I don't want to be coddled or dropped into a padded plan pen with the other kids. I want realism.
@@shumuss sadly for you that just isn't going to happy. Realism usually gets in the way of fun. Also it has been a cig policy to push realism and then dial back for fun. CR himself said that exact phrase.
Correlation doesn’t equal causation, brainiac. It’s mostly the abject failure this year has been when compared to the monumental hype that CIG created. The only people that play this game regularly are losers with no self respect.
@@BuzzCutPsychofunding is more a metric of the fervor of whales and how expensive the ships released that year were ($180 racing ship with lots of paints, 2 $500+ ships, polaris promises)
@BuzzCutPsycho and posters here, this is a duplicated post I originally posted in reply to the same question. 👇 Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
This is like reliving the demise of Quake Multiplayer. Quake has an opaque movement system similar to tricording. As soon as more accessible FPS games arrived people moved away. For those of us who stayed in Quake, we destroy any new player. For those who want this extremely high skill ceiling with low accessibility like Quake, your game will die. In the meantime I'm still enjoying Quake, but I'm not naive as to why we are such a tiny community. People have moved on to Team Fortress, Fortnite, Counter Strike and the like, because those are more forgiving, accessible, and does not have such an extreme disparity between veteran players and new players. Its hard fact to accept. For Quake to be more accessible it would also have to be dumbed down, remove strafe jumping and air control, decrease the speed, remove spawnable items etc. I'm glad they did not do it. But that's why id is making Doom after Doom and not a new Quake.
I think what SC needs is to cater its flight model and Tactics around fleet battles. We really haven't had those in real capacity, largely thanks to server restrictions, but it really should be the focus. I think a lot of the reasons for the salt is because everything has been so duel centric, and why I have never been satisfied with combat in any regard in any patch I have played. Granted, even when it comes to ship duels, I never had great deal of fun with those either due to lack of meaningful customization and tactics.
Great points, totally agree. For this to be a game that lasts for years you need to make it enjoyable for the many, not just the few. Games die when they do that.
And this is exactly what MM killed, or attempting to. Oh game is still cool, as long as you stay away from space battles. Yeah. A space "sim" where flight model sucks. A space sim which is great, as long as you don't fight. 😅😅
Like or hate MM, it has driven a large portion of the player base away from the game, during a time when it desperately needs them. 2024 has been an incredibly lackluster year, all that "we held the line" energy from CitizenCon is gone now. New player numbers have been falling in the past couple of years, but in 2024 it fell hard. So the project is going to rely on the same people that already spent thousands, to continue spending more thousands to keep the level of funding they need. And we are still years away from a 1.0 release. Probably 5+ on a generous estimate.
@@BuzzCutPsychoI am only one person, so of course "I" do not count, but "I" cannot willingly play MM, it is A$$. "I" cannot even bind enough keys/duel stick setup and layout to make this remotely playable/"enjoyable." "I" also cannot willingly fly a ship with all of my HUD and chat bubbles and entire ship shaking and rattling either. It was smooth as butter preMM. "I" was just enjoying some space ship flight, and dog fight some npc pirates, now you just loop around your target in a close circle. I only start trashing propads and self destructing anything I can get into AFTER I get tired of trying to figure out what is keeping me from playing this time loggin into the game... If flight was not MM right now, I would probably still bare through all the bugs and bs, but then I think of every time "I" go to actually play the game and the shuttle does not work, or the server crashes, possibly Hurston does not even spawn in or something else keeps coming up to make it so undesirable, that the main thing SC did for me preMM was flying a space ship. So if there "will be" other iterations of the new MM flight mechanic I am willing to give it another go, but how is this one more thing put last on the CIG list to polish and implement? WHEN and WHERE does all of the other stuff get added into the list as well to get polished (even just a TINY BIT!!!!!) and implemented? Know what pisses me off more then anything? When I store my C1 Spirit with all the interior lights set to red/aux, then retrieve my ship and all the lights are set back to standard lighting, but THEN "I" have to DOUBLE CLICK every light switch to get it back to the red/aux lighting, because every light switch has a BUG when you store & retrieve it, that the first click is like setting it back to standard (even though they are already set at standard, but the light switch does not know this...) then next clicks to get it back to the actual red/aux lighting. WHEN CIG???!!!.............. WHEN???!!!....................................................... NEVER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE! They don't make money fixing ships they already sold, just keep the money train rolling. Heck yea that Pulse is only $20, lots of small sales add up!! How many people you think paid the $20 for the Pulse? If that Pulse has a problem/quirk, just put it on the back burner until later, until later, until later... Lets design and drop another ship on the market in the mean time.
I really felt that "uggghhhh" kinda how i feel. Im invested *cough*5k*cough*, but thebgame isnt in a state i want to play. I log in after updates, check out the landscape and log out, at least untill its living and breathing.
background footage of just ramming ships with a hammer head while dunking on master modes haters is probably peak, state of the game right now. Very funny and well done. Once again thanks for putting basically my thoughts exactly into a video I can share to others with basically "game sucks right now, but this isn't why". Out of this entire year so far yeah very few things including master modes has been notibly actually an improvement.
This is all subjective perspective without any explanation why he feels MM is good. Funny guy but it doesn't make any sense. For example why this game can't be easy to get but hard to master?
The game must be easy to get and difficult to master. That is the entire basis of a good design. Hard to get into and even harder to master would be the dumbest design ever.
As someone who plays flight sims and is interested in SC but never actually played: the combat looks so boring, slow, and overall awful. Is this game ever going to be good? Other than that, it seems like there is such a mismatch between player expectation of close-in cannon shooting and realistic space flight physics - it just doesn't work.
It is meant to be a game and not a flight sim. Sim seems to have various different meanings to different people. Maybe DCS will release a space combat module.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I am not a sim elitist, I used to be a huge fan of Freespace 1/2 with fake aero physics. I'm just saying that combat seems to suck in SC, it just doesn't look fun or interesting to me. Maybe they should drop semi-realistic physics and just do fake plane physics that would match the desired guns-centric gameplay... But this should have been sorted out 10 years ago.
yeah, like idk how people can look at the project currently and say the (im)popularity is due to MM. It’s because of the sluggish pace of development, with .23 being split into two patches and 4.0 being delayed, as well as the numerous bugs and tedium associated with the cargo refactor. The cargo refactor, by the way, is similar to MM in that it is a crucial puzzle piece in making the game work as intended, and a step in the right direction, but without the full compliment of accessory features (different kinds of cargo, more loading vehicles, updated ships like the Carrack for cargo; armour, flak, aerodynamics for fighting/flying) it feels underwhelming.
The majority of those I see being salty about Master Modes started salivating when they heard your shields will drop when you enter nav mode. They aren't interested in playing the part of a pirate, they just want to blow people up. But, when they learned it won't work that way, they got super salty and won't shut up. I'm so glad CIG isn't listening to them.
Im surprised this is still even an argument. Also seeing Godrick the Grafted as a pilot made me chuckle a bit. Imagine him killing you and assimilating pieces of your ship into his own
it not we just stilll have people who are mad we even have planets and a green skybox LOL... people who cry about MM need to just find a better hobby than playing an alpha LOL clue is in the fucking name
ikr. its been almost a year and they are still crying. ig when you spend 8 years mastering shit you really fall in love with shit. wish they would just f**k off though. its not like that old fm is ever coming back.
I can't say I like Mindless Modes. I call it that because it is completely illogical. No sane person wants to lose shields while they are being attacked. It makes zero sense to tie shield loss to Nav' Mode activation. Weapons, sure. It also makes no sense to drastically decelerate, just because you put down your landing gear; or for doing so, to limit your speed to a snail's pace. The "idea" of Master Modes is not bad, in and of itself. But, implementation is really bad. Something needed to be done, and something has been. I just hope it wasn't all because Squadron 42 has Master Modes. If so, then that will be two games ruined by this insanity. I agree change is needed. But there has GOT to be a better way. Sorry Yogi. This isn't personal, I just want the game to be amazing.
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic. I do think that non-combat ships need better flight characteristics/defenses or both, just a reasonable chance to escape.
I'm starting to think that Valve is the one selling the Cheats, making accounts to sell, and selling prime. Like how Blizzard is selling Gold by the subscription tokens.
So much dishonesty and lies. The pvp community are some of the longest playing, most skilled, most knowledgeable and most passionate players in the game. Many OGs. You kind of don't want to lose that playerbase. Plus we all know it is not just pvp players that dislike master modes. Look at what they did to the racing community.
But you're the most easily replaced and easily forgotten. The top pvpers from cod to tarkov. [Which is on the precipice of closing down] are a deterrent to new players and where toxicity foments like overwatch. Shaving off the top1% from your game makes you money gets new players. Every game that still exists cycles out that 1% frequently. And no I ain't no carebear. Eve null sec, mo2, etc. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Yeah, but I don't know why master modes has to be linked to tri cord limiters You could have always added to try cording limiters in the old flight model easy enough
@@BuzzCutPsycho what about that couldn't work with the old system, we could have even lowered the speed in the old system, maybe not to the same extent because we still need traversal The issues I have with master modes is switching modes feels clunky and awful, and as a vulture or prospector you need to lower your shields to run away when your only option is to run away? Why do they even put shields on industrial ships then? The game that flirts with the idea of permadeath mechanics in the future with the death of the Spaceman do you really think being forced to turn off your Shields to almost be instantly wiped out by a fighter sounds fun? Like honestly why would any industrial manufacturer actually put shields on their spaceships, seems like a waste of weight and power. You'd almost just want to make a thicker hull seeing that it can't help during the transition to nav mode
I've gotten used to MMs and have adapted to it. Biggest dislike is all the added modes of nav but when we get quantum boosting that'll be 1 more mode to add to the list. Just a hassle getting my mappings the way I want them but finally got my VKBs in a comfortable setup. Wish switching to NAV didn't drop shields but it is what it is.
Master modes is garbage... everyone knows it. This video is a pure lie that we have the lowest AC population due to lack of content, that's not true. If master modes so good why I dont see new people playing or acing this game, no new players trying to master the modes 😅. All the low skill players are not going to be interested in pvp just because flight model changes. If you want this game to die go head continue defending master modes.
You can do same strat, just nav out. Also if you switch to nav then back to combat mode your shields reset and regarded faster compared to them being depleted from combat
On X MM its wining 60% against 40% period, and what i like about MM its the commitment when you engage others, its dificult to explain foro me, see you on the verse o7
@@emefx.u4064You can get better percentage by asking 10 of your friends that think MM is fine. So if you're an indefensible ship like Drake Vulture or MPUV tractor, you'll MM them to commit to a dogfight they can't win? Can you see the failure of your logic? So have you asked the rest of the player base in your P E R I O D???
Your right, someone made a video with the falsified statements that MM was responsible for the low player count. No, cargo is totally non functioning so miners, cargo runners and by extension pirates can profit off of their chosen gameplay loops. That is a large percentage of the player base who can't play.
This is a wild statement to me, I've been playing again over the past few days and had gracefully few bugs, the biggest being a single 2 SCU box that disappeared into the void when I was moving it to the cargo elevator. Just going my normal mining and salvaging gameplay loops, idk. Maybe just lucky.
I feel like the sentiment and feedback of MM opponents is constantly being ignored while I also think they are the people that probably spend the most time doing combat
definitely not a top tier "light fighter" pvper but we are playing a futuristic space game where the ships are going slower then ww2 prop planes, that doesn't feel good and to be honest my interest in the game has dropped alot since MM came out because i feel the new missile spam meta is even worse then the old light fighter meta
In this case, I watched both videos and I tend to say "you're both right". The arguments A1 presents are not wrong after all as far as I can see. The question is how much does he extrapolate into the future - and he says that the basic geometry will always shuffle around the current meta problems. Personally I felt PVE combat was more difficult with MM, but overall the sense of flight coming with it just feels so awkward and unnatural that it is hard for me to get used to it.
MM is driving player participation down. On tri-cording, everyone was doing it; even noobs with 10 hours of playtime were unconsciously button-bashing and recording! I'm a trader, and I was doing it. Saying that just PVP players were doing it it just nonsense!
Trr-chording was not an exploit, it was a simple mechanic than anyone could learn. The main issue was the most pilots couldn't control their speeds using the throttle and brake. So slowing the game down and adding speed walls is CIG's fix to the above.
@@bones3915 lack of imagination? It’s not up to me to make the gameplay, the game is supposed to provide and create opportunities for it to naturally occur. Not to mention this so called ‘MMO’ doesn’t even have any basic mechanics. Economy? No. Progression system? No. Risk and incentive? No. Connected game loops? No. Any meaningful gameplay? No.
All this guy does is fly around in a mole contributing to master modes and his combat pov? are you fighting rocks? u have no clue and this video should be removed
I love engaging noobs and having them have no chance to run because of MM. All I do is wait for them to panic and go into NAV mode and thats that. Easy.
@@BuzzCutPsycho i dont know what that is, but it's a fact, ganking is easier than ever, new players could at least run before, now they just get a couple of missiles up their ass that they can't defend against
MM being advertised as some sort of noob friendly update has brought me so many victims lmao Kinda hilarious MM is their response for trichording and shit AI
MM is amazing, I’ve always said I’ve liked it. Yes tuning needs to be done but it’s so good. Did you watch the E atmo tournament? It was fun to watch. Was boring when they did it in the last flight model. I think the time to kill is a little to quick right now though. Mistakes are heavily punishable
Still think master modes suck personally. i don't do much pvp, i was and am a terrible pilot. But i enjoyed the more realistic thought that guns being active wouldn't mess with speed, especially with ballistic. There is no way to explain that the energy consumption keeps the ship slow. End up like starfield making a game for everyone but nobody. I'm okay not having an incentive to do pvp because it's dangerous and people will and usually are better than me. I was okay with the fact i could get dominated at any moment. But now it feels the same, only the metaphorical grandma is stuck driving because even when people do come to kill me now, it's just in slow motion comparatively, and it feels boring. I want to fly a starship, not drive a toyota with a little nos in it.
Flying in a group to fight bounties pre-MM was awful. We'd always end up dozens of km away from each other in our own little battles, unable to coordinate at all. With MM, we can reliably work the same target, or if we are fighting different ones they aren't so far apart - so I can kill my target, then turn, boost and help my buddy almost straight away. I like the double-stage slowdown as well. I can fly full NAV up to the station, then "change down" into SCM to move closer to the hangar, then landing gear to smoothly cruise down. I appreciate the ability to do that without tweaking my joystick curves. There's still a bunch of systems yet to plug in before we can really see the full picture (armor, resource network, etc) so I don't support much radical tweaking as yet (and definitely don't support the idiotic notion of just throwing it all out).
1. There are still players engaged in a 7 V 1 fight and winning after MM was introduced. And most just change to travel mode to get away and shield up, then reengage again. 2. I have made multiple attempts to play Arena Commander and almost never see people on. 3. Since this latest MM update the PU has been pretty dead lately and I have seen a lack of holistic PVP encounters in the universe which is pretty much a bummer. 4. CIG burning the veteran lightfighter community is a bad move because they advertise the game and help build up the community with tips and tricks videos and live streams. They're needed just as much in this community as the rest of these influencers. Maybe tricording wasn't the best system, but it seems like this current system has burned most players so clearly something else needs to be explored to get this system in a much more manageable place.
Yogi basically admitted MM was purely designed around combat. Im ok with the changes for combat, though it probably went too far into simple/accesible. It seemed like he recognized the problems it generated in non-pvp gameplay, which is my biggest issue with it, but hopefully they actualy have a way to deal with them. Not sure its actually possible to with the core aspect of MM being the button press mode switch and timer. That fundamental aspect of MM kills flight flow outside of PVP and makes mining specifically more annoying than the bugs.
Good vid. What you described at 3min mark is the entirety of how high level fortnite is played. You nailed why I no longer play SC. It is a game that has ONE solar system that takes 100+gigs... HD real estate does not allow SC in at this point. Imagine being locked in Shinrata Dezra in Elite Dangerous... That is what is like playing SC. To me SC is trying to be planet side 3 but way slower and nothing really works right and everyone is disorganized but at least it looks kinda cool but that kinda cool sheen wears off fast when the game makes you feel like your living with a 1997 computer that can barely run UT99. I think you should branch out to other space games time to time bc your logic and reasoning is sound and we need more of that in the gaming industry as a whole. Thanks.
Thank you! I usually don't get nice comments like this so I appreciate them when they happen. Time is an issue for me when it comes to branching out. I work a lot and YT is a hobby of mine so I don't often get a chance to play many other games much less research and make videos for them. But who knows what will happen in a year or two? It may change. I always have a lot to say.
Dude, I've been TRYING to talk some sense into the people on Spectrum, they completely ignore ANYTHING unless its "MM needs to go immediately" I mentioned how Yogi and CIG are the only ones with combat data and they're happy with what they're seeing, and some guy responded to me with the Wikipedia page for "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics".
So, the Cartman's of SC are still mad they can't compete in the special olympics to feel like champions anymore? Say it isn't so...lulz. I want that atmospheric flight model with stall speeds to end fighters street sweeping under JT buildings and to make VTOL drop ships and land units crucial for planet raids/defense. Tunings aside ships can have characters and feel more substantial now vs a flicky bike. I think they still need to tweak a ton of parameters but that has to happen to add armor, ammo types, dynamic damage, etc. Change and time is the only constant in the SC universe.
I've begun pointing out on the forums that the people bitching about MM are upset that they "feel slow" because they are no longer literally faster than many of the projectiles in game. Of course you feel slow when you can't outrun bullets... It's harder to avoid getting shot now! In all of this discussion i discovered that the gripers complaining that they feel like they are on rails and not even playing a space game don't fly decoupled... seriously...
@@BuzzCutPsycho One of the craziest things I realized is because the playing field is scaled to 1/6 the 300ms ish speed limit translates roughly to 4,000 mph. I discovered that when people were complaining "how is my space ship slower than a f15!" Well... it's not! lol.
At least you can play somewhat normally, I've had nothing buy UI issues with terminals and interactables in the game world that keep me from playing. Literally stuck with underpants as I did manage to put the gown away and eventually bought some gear... but putting it on is a completely different story.
Master Modes vs Unified Flight Model. Honestly I am split, I think a good bit of the community is really. A1 made a video that you pointed out, and I think both you and him have valid points. For example, the fights are closer yes, I like that we can fly in groups now, use cover, and in a way its more like the original legacy flight model in may ways. MM as a foundation is pretty good, but it needs allot of tuning for it to be as fun as the unified flight model. That being said, I don't really understand this constant bashing of the PvP community, if people put in the effort to get good at the game, they should be good and be able to 1v7 etc. You constantly say; that there is about 200 of these pro players, so all in all, the chance you encounter them in the PU is very small, i.e their impact on the game is low. Now we can argue that they made people go away from AC, but AC has its own fair share of issues; we have no ranked mode to match people so that they its more even battles. Tri-Cording and the 45 were valid tactics, the fact that CIG provides us no tutorials whatsoever, no in-game tutorial, no ingame video tutorials, no in game written tutorials is not the player bases fault but CIG's. As A1 said, who is CIG to say how many players one can kill, who is anyone to make such calls, of setting an "threshold" of how many players one should defeat? Is this something we really want people to decide for us? A1 also makes a valid point that yes, we have more people playing now, but this is natural because everyone wants to know how this flight model is, test it out, give it a chance, so only with time, will we be truely be able to see if MM is actually successful or not. Now the Unified Flight model had its own fair share of issues, most predominantly back strafing & jousting. The jousting issue mostly happened due to inexperience, just poor throttle control from rookie players still learning pvp. The back strafing on the other hand really was just not fun, but this could have been fixed by nerfing the forward thrusters. Tri-Cording in itself was not so much an issue, as it was a good move, but the problem was that it messed with the PiP and this created an exploit by making shots miss. Again this is on CIG to fix this issue. We also have to raise the point of how weird MM feels, it really feels like facing Air Drag in Space with the automatic de acceleration. I think this issue could be solved by just not having the de acceleration in there at all. 250 standard speed, up to 500 when boosted and it remains that speed, but if you de accelerate yourself it goes back to 250 again until you boost another direction. Or just remove the boost speed cap and keep speeds top 500ish. Or 300ish but have the boost just there to accelerate faster and not go past the 300ish speed cap. Anyways good video and many valid points as well, I think MM can be improved greatly. And lol at the endless rams.
This is a really good comment. This video was actually not a response to A1, the next one is, but I recorded it earlier. I am pretty dead set in my ways and he is in his. But I just seek to offer the "other side" and not really convince anyone. Minds are always made up.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Fair enough, I certainly see where you are coming from. I am probably among the few that sees merits in both MM and the Unified Flight Model we had before. I joined SC when we had the Unified Flight Model, and I would be lying to you if I didn't tell you that I do miss it, even if it had some serious fundamental flaws. But I also watched how SC used to be when AC first came out, so MM is allot closer to how SC was back when Arena Commander first came out after the Hanger Module, so its closer to its starting roots, which is kinda cool in its own right. I would really like to have the best of both worlds, the fluidity of the Unified Flight Model and the close combat formations of Master Modes. Let the 45 & Tricord be a thing, but maybe reduce the impact of it. Tri-Cording and the 45 were very natural movements if we have more than just a rear thruster, but the PiP targeting system would have to be tweaked to calculate for those movements. Keep speeds low, but accelerations high and no strange space air drags. And most importantly of all, removal of gimbals, or auto aim in general, or have a serious negatives for using auto aim, such as fire rate penalties like when in precision mode. This would make single seat fighters very competitive and rewarding, as raise the skill ceiling, however muticrew ships, when fully crewed should generally have the edge over a single seat fighter. 2 Single Seat Fighters should not equal to one 2 Seater, A 2 manned ship, like the Hurricane or Cutlass should be worth for example 3 Gladius' So that they become viable choices. Limit auto-aim gimbles perhaps to turrets. Just a few ideas. Looking forward to your new video, would be cool if you guys had a talk together.
![NAGROBKI feat. Mikołaj Trzaska - Preparowanie Muminków [21.11.2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uMunGoYeG2k/mqdefault.jpg)
I recorded this before the recent A1 video, I am working on a response to him and Spectrum now.
hell yeah more fireworks XD
I love the concept of master modes and the fact that it makes multicrew and large ships more effective but I just can't get used to it. It just doesn't feel natural.
Soon I saw that I did not care what he thinks
Don't bother. He doesn't even know the theorem of Pythagoras.
Finally someone with a good head on his shoulders saying the truth n putting blame on the actual issues rather than on MM. A1’s recent video on this that ppl r referring to seems more like a sore loser’s rant …. 2v2 and he couldn’t do anything cause all he does is run and shield up which is exactly what the devs found annoying and wanted to end with MM.
I couldn't care less about MM.
I care that roc mining is unplayable.
Box missions are a joke, drug trading got removed.
All trades are forced to end on cities on plannets that are so bugged that they make me refuse doing hauling altogether.
The game is horrible right now with the exception of salvaging and ship mining.
This is a valid complaint.
ROC mining is unplayable? O_o
.......then......what do I do with the 6 SCU of gems I have gotten so far this morning.......
@ThunderChief666 the workaround that made it possible to sell the gems again was discovered after I posted this comment.
But good try, mate.
I pretty much haven't touched the game since MM went live. Felt awful when I tried it and had no interest in "testing it" further. That along with all the other BS CIG is coming up with has put this project in a prolonged "wait and see" status. Maybe in a few years it will coalesce into something that makes sense but my hopes aren't high. Right now the game is dogshit in pretty much every regard.
EDIT: Also kinda weird you call it "bad player salt" when allegedly the whole point is that CIG wants to make it accessible to the bad players.
>Also kinda weird you call it "bad player salt"
It highly depends on definition of a "bad player". I bet Buzz didn't meant "suckers" but more like "bad companions".
Well they're upset they're being killed by what they would normally consider bads.
agreed
What do you mean "in a few years"? Assuming CIG is still in business .... you will go back to see SC at 1.0?
I'm hoping that everything will be fixed by SC 1.0, but I doubt we will see 1.0 any time soon. I'll be happy if 4.0 isn't a broken mess like 3.0 was.
Light fighters should blow everything out of the water up to and including Hammerheads 100% of the time. Anyone who bought any other ship besides a light fighter should have just lit their money on fire and flushed it. The best version of Star Citizen would mean everyone used the same light fighter. The game and the meta should always stay the same.
That's total sarcasm, but that's what some of you sound like.
The concurrent online player count dropped precipitously after CIG implemented MM according to publicly available data. The amount varies, but estimates place the present number at 20% what it was under the Newtonian flight system.
The only public verifiable data is funding and now leaderboards.
Funding is up. And more players are in AC. Don't worry my next video covers that.
@@BuzzCutPsycho neither of these metrics directly indicate concurrent online players
SCM made me stop playing and I'm mostly an industrialist
@@BuzzCutPsycho But you wrong, space is not a barbie place, that why lot of people did buy the game - because it was not a arcade space, what it is now!
@@paulstraszewski736 oh shutup. How about you read what you just wrote and try and comprehend just how stupid you look?
MM aint going anywhere and at this point I'm taking great pleasure in watching morons like you suffer over this game not being what they want it to be. Grow up, go outside and get a life. You loser.
I swear to God everyone in the comments who uses their real name as an online handle is a brain dead idiot. You are no exception.
Being a backer for over 10 years and following this project for 12 years, I've always been with the understanding that Star Citizen would be a 6DoF Space Combat simulation game (among other professions). Such that, the expectation is that the flight model more closely coincides with those mechanics and deeper complexities. The compartmentalization of all these 'Modes' goes somewhat counter, IMO, to that end.
Sure, I get that they want to make a fun and little to no barrier to entry game. However, I do not feel they can do this while staying true to a Newtonian Physics Space Simulation combat game. Star Citizen does not need to be another on rails Star Wars space battle game. That was never the direction and concept of the game from the beginning. There are some fundamental things wrong with Master Modes that need to be addressed. Maneuverability profiles, ship mass, control surfaces(atmospheric flight) etc, all need to be reworked.
i.e. A light-med fighter should predominantly be more maneuverable versus a Vanguard (and above). They should have more strafing capability (within the profile/speeds of the engagement) based on mass/thruster output etc. Larger ships simply are not built for such encounters. Vanguard should have much more armor, less maneuverability etc. Even more so, a Hammerhead shouldn't easily be able to be taken down by a few light fighters in an engagement. But then again, those larger ships (esp. with turrets) need to have a muilt-crew to reach their intended potential.
All in all, gimping the maneuverability profiles of ships (up until let's say an F8C) gives less options for creative fun encounters in ship combat.
Putting more and more artificial control (i.e. landing gear / SCM speed constraints) and a multitude of modes seems just not the right direction.
It still is a 6DOF flight model. You can disable the landing gear slow down, etc.
This game will never be realistic. CIG has stated numerous times they want to dial "realism up than dial it back for fun" - As an original 10+ backer you should know that last part.
@@BuzzCutPsycho
The landing gear as it currently is and how it works, does not make adequate sense. Sure, no one has to use it. Though what's the point of having it then...
SCM and it's notable speed slowdown/constraints doesn't feel right.
The maneuverability profile as it stands now is not one that I think is well modeled and missing other factors. (Perhaps those will be brought in/tuned later).
The transition between NAV/SCM and the other modes within (FLT/QTM/SCN etc..) and how they operate does not feel right 'to me'.
They want to force players into close quarter combat, and their justification is the fun-factor of that. Well, there are 'some' elements I can partially agree on for that. However, by doing that, they start to restrict other things regarding flight and the freedom to operate.
Simply put, if one wants to have have a good shot at taking out an opposing enemy in a dogfight, one should monitor their speeds, distance to the target, convergence sweet spot and the types of weapons used.
SCM feels more like I'm forced into following some rule-set that is not a true freedom of flight 6DoF scenario.
I feel more restricted in what I can do and frankly the ship just doesn't respond well enough (at least right now) during combat, IMO.
It feels like the above matters less in the scheme of things.
If you want realism, the combat meta would be about drones, long-range missiles and computer-controlled precision weapons that would end most engagements without crewed ships ever coming into visual contact.
I don't think you want realism. You just want to draw the fun/realism line in a different place. And that's fine.
In my opinion, the criticism of master modes comes not only from the pvp community, but also from players who started playing SC because of the simulation values and, as such, realism and immersion. I'm not a pvp player, but I'll speak from my own perspective as someone focused on the more casual aspects of the game. While I understand that MM will probably remain and offer new, interesting possibilities, it seems to me that most people judge it through the prism of poor implementation and completely screwed up ship balance. With MM came this crazy balance and many ships that were once fun to use, now move sluggishly and flying them is simply boring. And most people don't think about whether their bad experiences are due to MM or the fact that CIG has changed the statistics of a given ship and the average multi-role freelancer now moves like a typical hauler or a much larger Andromeda. In addition, there is an artificial and immediate brake when switching modes, or inconsistent black outs, which spoil the immersion. The game went in the arcade direction, and this could have been avoided. However, I agree that talking about how MM are the source of all evil is cherry picking in an extremely weak form. Evaluating the impact of MM on a game where half of the missions don't work and you have to make an effort to find something interesting to do makes no sense at all. Unfortunately, both players and creators try to show the positive or negative impact of MM on player engagement, and in the current state of the game this is not the biggest problem.
MM is rough for industrial to a degree, I agree. But I speak purely from a pvp combat pov.
@@BuzzCutPsycho but u r a miner
Avenger one had a good take on this. MM is not fun. When I started back in 3.14 I had no clue what I was doing, so you know what I did? I went out and learned by watching people who knew how to pvp and then practiced to up my skill.
How dare you suggest someone should actually train and learn the nuances to become good :)
Do you top AC charts currently with MM? Genuine question.
@Foulmouth231 join the club
@@BuzzCutPsycho absolutely not. I wouldn’t even consider myself in the top 50%. I don’t get enough playtime with having a full time and a family. I just got good enough to handle myself in the pu to fight and get away. Flying just feels slower. I like the idea of MM just not the application. For instance, if you want to go top speed you shouldn’t be able to have full shields. I’d like to see MM more focused around the power triangle. One thought I had at the intro of MM was when entering the zones around space stations you should have disable shields/weapons or be considered hostile. I’m not an expert in game development and I’m definitely not an expert in SC. I’m just an average guy that wants to feel like I’m flying fast through space and currently I don’t.
MM is fun… A1 got his ass handed to him in FoF 2v2 cause he couldn’t use his shitty strats … I’m sorry buddy running away all the time (old flight model) isn’t “fun” it was plain annoying.
MM is so boring some pilots take out a hammerhead and just ram people in AC.
I do that it is based.
i mean...how can you not in a hammerhead...
There's a simple counter to that, its called an 890. That hammer head won't survive the ram.
@@BuzzCutPsycho 💀💀😂
It jist your master A1 being bad. There are still very good pilots in MM who dont need to fly interceptor in chicken style to be good and stomp on other players. Unfortunatelly for you and A1 you are not one of them.
Since mm dropped I stopped doing bounties because it feels way harder now and I get blown up every time. Having a 30g break in the Mode where you are supposed to have less thruster energy is just weird and my fury lx is now useless because a racing ship with no wheapons is now locked to 240m/s.
Can you race in nav?
@@BuzzCutPsycho Yes You can. But locking Racing to SCM Would be even worse. Maybe as a separate category but racing at those speeds is the whole appeal to even do racing in SC.
Lets hope CIG comes to their senses and start improving the game instead of making it worse.
lets hope
puff puff pass that hopium
I wouldn’t mind MM in pvp but just flying around scraping or mining or hauling it just makes it annoying to fly and that’s why I don’t like it. It just makes it tedious to fly your ship around especially if you have to constantly be managing what mode your in if your mining or scraping in the mole or reclaimer and you forget to leave nav mode you can’t use the scrapers or lasers and if your not in nav mode you fly like 40 miles an hour
That feels bad and will likely change
What you said @salt_detector3571 💯. While I practice combat, out of necessity because it's part of the game, I'm primarily focused around industry. From my perspective MM isn't enjoyable, either way, and it's why I haven't played SC since shortly after MM was implemented.
But... flying is boring now, I feel like there's no where to go with it. The game feels totally different and I don't enjoy it any more. MM came along with the best patch the game has ever had, it was never in a better place but MM soiled it for me
3.24 was an absolute disaster in every way. Not MM. How can you say 3.24 was a great patch when it had a lot of the same issues 3.18 had?
@@BuzzCutPsycho you sir suck.. well too
@@BuzzCutPsycho Was a big leap in stability for me and my friends
@@victimUKlol, absolutely not for me, it was a hell of an experience. So I decided to give it a rest until 4.0 or even later
@@emmaquarzpeng gonna be even later cause 4.0 is going to be a bigger mess, don't listen to this game, best shape sc has ever been in was earlier this year and late last year
You say the numbers are low because the game sucks, sure yeah but it sucked for a long time before as well. I obviously can only speak for myself and the friends i used to play with, but mm is THE reason we quit. I'm genuinely not in favour of bringing back the old flight model entirely, i think it was cheesy and stupid, but mm is boring as dogshit man. I wasn't an expert in the previous model and I'm not an expert in mm, but at least i could have some fun before. Now it just feels like every 1v1 is a fucking single circle turn fight and whoever has more guns wins 🥱😴 I'm back to war thunder to satisfy my pvp cravings for now
It has sucked for a long time and has remained constant in the suck. There is no real new suck but there are real new options in terms of games.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
@zachnattrass the door moved at 1 inch a year btw. Youll have to take it off its hinges to move it any faster
The point of master modes is to make flying easier for players especially new player. And they only way to make it easier is to make it simpler. People forget it was the intricate complexity of the flight model that originally drew players to the game.
Call it what you will it a bait and switch the advertisemented complexity and switch to arcade style flight while ignoring backer inputs.
And tricording can be fixed without MM
I think other things, not the FM brought people to SC. If the FM was so engaging and fun AC would not have been a ghost town.
@@BuzzCutPsychoI've played the game for 8 year and probly been in ac 5 times
@@younboyce7068 cool
Imagine calling the original flight model "intricate". They didn't even have aerodynamic forces.
It was trash. Cope.
@@carlosfernandez7706 it's at least a start to mature the model. What they had was garbage and I have zero idea how you would ever rectify that model with atmosphere/space.
Trichording was a huge problem. It was not realistic from a physical perspective (g forces on the pilot, stress on the aircraft) and was a bad mechanic for gameplay.
Imagine any other game where you learn ONE mechanics and become unbeatable
The magic space brakes when switching modes is complete trash.
/shrug
ok
I fucking love that part.
Trichording is literally part of the original paper of the model.
Trichording is NOT an exploit.
Is AC packed now? Is the game packed now?
No. The game is more dead than ever.
@@BGIANAKy The game wasn't packed in the old flight model either. Almost like the flight model isn't the issue, but the lack of actual content.
You will like my next video where AC stats are presented.
@@Anticl1matic servers are 40/100 most the time. Used to be always full. AC is basically dead always. My org used to be packed. No more than 4 are in discord and no more org events, used to have 5 min big events a week with over 10 members each. Most events had 20. You can lie to yourself. But not me
I can only see 80-100 servers sizes. Sorry if it disappoint some people.
You have to be careful though with dumbing down systems and making them generic for the general population because this is a motto MANY games have followed and in a lot of cases, it results in stale and boring gameplay.
It isn't that extreme at all.
just simply look how planetside 2 smh is more fun than the over sophisticated battlefield from ea. I dont think i met outside of leauge of legends, people playing multiplayer shooter and not bothering about their low spec laptops.
What did they dumb down? Something that was objectively bad, shallow and already... yes... dumb?!
This game has had a shit FM since day 1. MM is a step in the right direction. CIG just have no idea what they are doing in general.
Which is why MM sucks. Also
Exactly
@@0BLACKESTFUN0I think I'll jump to plant side 2 havnt played in a decade
I'm not a dog fighter, I'm a cargo runner and I think master modes sucks and needs to be reverted back.
Too bad. It ain't gonna revert.
@@BuzzCutPsycho it is though
@@kaindestuto2053 lol mm isn't being reverted
@@BuzzCutPsycho it is m8
If you’re a cargo hauler why do you care about mm, you’re playing space truck sim 2500s not digital png combat simulator
If accessability is a good thing (and I fully agree), then how is MM a good change? CIG try to press a WW2 and a newtonian 6 DoF together into one, which cannot work, and MM is the weird child of that stupid idea.
Love how you quoted A1. I agree MM made our beloved space sim unrealistic.
Yeah they need to make a choic between flying like planes or flying like spaceship. We can't have both, at least not in space
It is a videogame, it is not a spaceship sim. It is full of arcade conventions even without MM. Speed limiters, "maximum speed" for instance - there is no such thing as "maximum speed' in space in "newtonian physics". Endlessly accelerating ship in space can reach any speed - 5km/s, 50km/s 5000km/s, it doesn't matter. Yet we had 1.5km/s speed limit before MM - where you worried about that? How about laser "projectiles" and their speed? How about missiles leaving ship and lagging behind it because "ship flies faster"? This is all rediculous already , why not press WW2.
Alex answered your comment better than I can. Its a game.
@@BuzzCutPsychoyour whole point of view is actually pathetic. It’s a game that sold 750 mil to a niche community touting physics models. Non PvP people also hate it. It’s boring.
It went from light fighter meta to snub.
Multi crew needs a huge buff. I play free fly in AC almost daily and never see multiple people crewing large ships. Master modes didn't go far enough. CIG should buff turrets so they have massive range and can actually touch light fighters.
sadly MM was a huge letdown in that department, multicrew ships are in a serious need of a buff in that department
Multi-crew is owned but not because of MM. It was always bad but was carried by turrets before. They removed turret autoaim and now they suck.
Yes, they suck. Large ships have always had this artificial handicap. They are big, so they need more crew members. How? By crippling them and taking away pilot control. By making all turrets manually operated. By giving people arbitrary tasks that are not necessary. Things nobody really wants to do but puts up with because they are playing Star Citizen.
Probably the best course of action (my thoughts, not fact) for Multi crew I think would be to replace all manual turrets with automatic ones and put a single crew member (or even multiple ones) in charge of giving them targets and fire orders (as in: Free Fire, ROE, Hold fire, Manual fire or Full, Burst, yada yada). Weapons officer so to speak. Same person might be in charge of the shields, countermeasures and radar, or it could be split up.
This person might have to manage power to individual turrets, weapon groups, this and that. Target weak spots on large enemy ships and coordinate with the pilot. Combat in large ships should play as a strategy game rather than a fast paced adrenaline rush. Otherwise why not just fly a small fighter that's more powerful and harder to hit?
At the same time I think they also need to give turrets their own weapons different from fighters to give bigger ships a better chance. More range, more shots/ammo. And better tracking, otherwise skilled fighters will just outfly them and we're back to square one. Realistically any large ship would have point defenses against smaller fighters, while their main firepower is large cannons in order to attack other large ships. There's a lot of fun balancing tasks that you could give people to do... Could. I doubht CIG will manage though.
Nobody wants to sit in a fucking copilot seat or worse and do nothing for 45 minutes. Multicrew is a pipe dream. It’s literally a shitty experience.
@Pixelthekid ,you think people will just sit in their turrets all day? No ,that's ludicrous. The same as a modern naval vessel, Everyone has a normal job until the all hands to battle stations is called.
If you looked at the votes during the ship showdown you’d notice the player base is getting crappy. Over 5 million citizens but about 40k voting in the showdown. Say what you will about MM love it or hate it but it’s had an effect on players and that’s something you can’t deny.
I can’t say either way at the moment. I can’t even retrieve my ship since 3.24 went live so I haven’t played.
Check my community post on the funding.
2954 - c1 vs lightning was 28625 votes. (70706 total for lightning)
2953 - corsair vs vulture was 20000 votes (46797 votes for corsair)
2952 - carrack vs msr - 29,000 votes ( 63k votes total for carrack)
2951 - no data on mpuv vs msr but mpuv was at 58784 votes total.
Your ship showdown argument showing the 'numbers aren't doing well" is pretty bogus.
I'll figure 3.18 hurt SC more than anything else
@@BuzzCutPsycho duplicated post. 👇
Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
@@schlagzahne6741 😂 oh boy …. Out of 5+ million. Can we see past years vote counts still?
>but it’s had an effect on players and that’s something you can’t deny.
No, it doesn't. Check SC daily online count in last 6 months. MM was introduced in May. Online was 70k in May, it is 70k now. There is simply no effect on most of active players.
The thing is I always viewed and will view MM as additive to the larger scope. I am still in the camp of "I feel the need for speed" and that the ample reduction of speed has hurt the feel of jet fighters in space into propeller aircraft in space.
HOWEVER
Without the addition of armor, component, shields and re-tiering of weaponry MM is only half the story we're looking at. The blueprint is on the board and all we see right now is the foundation without any of the structure for space combat.
What I sort of expect that ships will have in the future.
Damage 2.0 (comprising of shields, component, armor and weapons) will further differentiate combat gear.
Meaning fighters will have its own specialized category of armor, shielding, component, and weapons. The whole Size X is going to go away for Fighter, Corvette, and Heavy class component system. This specialization will allow for more optimal game balance between lets say a Hornet vs a Conne vs Polaris. Giving multi-crew ships that much needed boost in effectiveness while allowing fighters to do what they were meant to do...that is screen heavier ships, escort specialized craft to deal with mutli-crew ships and be the tip of the spear when it comes to raiding.
As it stands right now with the current systems fighters are just swiss army knives for everything, there's no point to heavier class of ship other than cargo space. MM and Damage 2.0 once they release it will offer a means to give each ship in the game their needed roles. Something this game needs right now for the health of it. There's really no reason to spend 600 on a Polaris when you can buy a F8C on sale for half the cost, or a Hornet II for 170.
Damage 2.0 will also solve issues surrounding MM as well, namely flight speed. Imagine ability to change out your thrusters, primary engine for better parts. Im talking the core components, how about those fuel intakes or a ton of subsystems now on the board for the player to tune their fighter to their specifications. Want more flight speed, well you're going to have to drop a tonnage of armor to balance out thrust to weight...or replace the current engines for overclocked versions that have a 10% failure chance if you redline them. The previous systems wouldn't allow for such and if anything if they did the meta would be buy these X items, to add to your ship and boom 100% kill everything only for that to be boring as well.
Also someone whose whole org is about Creating and selling gear to other Orgs and having their own Paramilitary army at their call. I support MM because the ability to push flight speed with crafting better propulsion systems, thrusters, armor and other gear is a gameplay loop ready to be born if CIG pulls the trigger. I mean 200m/s in combat speed but with my brand engines that I'll sell for a nice premium you can push it up to 300m/s and redline at 350m/s until they give out on you.
So the salt mine of MM is just people who are too short sighted on what is over the horizon....god how will they act when they finally implement Damage 2.0 soon after Engineering is put into the game.
you want the blue print for ships and setups
EVE ONLINE
works perfect.. and CR knows it and anyone with a brain would copy it OR at leat mimic it..
@@doubledigital_ See and that's what would make Star Citizen actually great. The ability to full on salvage ships, build them and even sell them 2nd hand. Sure the NPC ship market exists to be a money sink but the player economy is where most games shine and when you do not have that player economy or limit it, it just overall hurts the appeal.
I really hope damage 2,0 solves everything because I am tired of how frail ALL ships feel. I hate just BLOWING UP and not being disabled. I really do. Ideally, in my mind, barring some INSANE firepower, explosion should be rare and a ship is TORN TO PEICES instead.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Agreed, the current soft-death system just sucks because all it does is put the ship into a mess that the player can get stuck in at times.
shills are gonna shill, CIG partner program on display right here
lol
CIG wouldn't touch him with a 10ft poll
Sadly, I am one of the people that dislike Master Modes. It's great that you are loving the direction that Master Modes has taken. Unfortunately, I am on the brink of moving on from this game as it has ruined the best part of Star Citizen for me, Flight and Combat. I guess our voices do not matter.
Have you seen the funding this year?
@@BuzzCutPsychoduplicated post. 👇
Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
@@BuzzCutPsycho what does it even has to do with master mode. Plus newer player will never experience what makes the old flight model good.
@@zachnattrasskeep up with that and star citizen will surely fail more than it is now. Clown
I 100% disagree with basicly everything you said. My Background I am an original backer from the kickstarter days. I've played off and on since the start, but I played every major patch. Im 99% Pve focused and only pvped greifers or defending myself or friends. Im not a light fighter andy, I preferred the medium to heavy fighters. But I took the time and put the hours in to become very good at flying. I wasnt the best like the top pvpers, but I was very good and could take on the medium skilled pvpers pretty well. I put around 200 hours into the ptu testing MM and another 300-400 hours after it launched. And MM and flight mode changes have ruined the fun of flying for me. Flying around and doing bounty missions, cargo or even just goofing around isnt fun anymore. And If flying isnt fun why play SC.
So how many group fights did you do? It's a trick question, they didn't happen unless both sides agreed not to run away and fight to the death.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Setting preconditions onto every accepted response is a surefire way to never have to be wrong.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
@@BuzzCutPsycho Like I said I really dont pvp. only PVP group fights I did were griefers. But that has nothing to do with how flying feels right now. Its bad and not fun compared to what it used to be. Thats the only point Im saying. And if the core gameplay of SC isnt fun why play?
Im not saying it isnt fun for you or other people but it seems to me out of the people who have an opinion that theres is more people that dont like it then do. While I think most players dont care either way.
bye then, enjoy another game
All the "bad players" are still killing 1vX. That doesn't change the fact it leaves players doing non combat stuff completely open to be ganked.
This was a video about combat. MM is primarily about combat.
@@BuzzCutPsycho your video may have been focused about combat, but MM is not solely that. It is the flight model all ships have to follow. There are a lot of poor choices that were made with MM.
@@Metallas its also bare bones as they have noted dozens of times that MM is not even complete and wont be complete until Damage and Engineering come into the game itself.
@BuzzCutPsycho No, it is not. MM presently effects spaceflight in every ship, and every shipborne activity, including hauling, salvage and mining.
@@grygaming5519 true but that could also apply to the entire project. Or the flight model could be scrapped and reiterated yet again. Time will tell the main question is how much of the player base will run out of time before the project ever gets “finished”
Making space combat sims space combat arcade games are why the genre died in the first place. Even mining and salvaging sucks now.
Define arcade.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Artificially low speed caps, boost only increases speed until you stop boosting, gimmicky ship mechanics that subvert more realistic physics or currently accepted FTL concepts. And then all of those hard limts even apply to a decoupled mode.
Thing is most games RP all those hard limits such as a max speeds, boost fade, and other non-newtonian aeroplanes in space styled flight as fly-by-ware computer controlled overrides to keep your ship inside a handling envelope to keep you from making major mistakes that will end you.
But you can always override those by going decoupled and now you are at the mercy of your own skills for maintaining your safety. With no real limits, and no protections from making screw ups, like reaching a high enough velocity it takes you until next Tuesday to stop.
Stop with the realistic/arcade argument. Honestly its just plain bad. Never was realistic and never will be.
The old flight mode wasnt realistic also the new one either.
This whole argument just makes your side look bad for the MM people.
MM needs a lot of work but fundamentals are there.
How would you changed the old flight model so it wouldn’t be speedy fighter meta for the elite sweats with +5 yojsticks and head trackers and such.
@@gabor5079 So then define what it would mean to be realistic to you. Are you simply saying we should rule out all theoretical tech? Because outside some fantasy FTL travel, the game was relatively realistic with a reasonable restriction on the top end. I would have liked it to go further into the realism with a splash of sci fi myself, but I'm one of the few that loved the Independence War series.
MM needs so much work, it'll wind up resembling pre-MM again.
@@nuanil realistic space flight? Done by drones that has no main thruster. Just purely 6dof zig zag machine that can withstand powerfull G forces. Unlike the human body that can sustain maybe 7. But we want star wars or battlestar galactica type fighter combat. And for that we must make it not realistic. The question is that where were we draw then line.
Man mm sucks. Even pve sucks. If ur on a slow server u can kill ur bounty before they notice you, but if ur on a good server it's like walking head first into 3-6 flying turrets. And ur too slow to even get behind them.
If you are losing to PvE mobs you have bigger issues than MM.
This was literally no different then the last flight model. Are you high?
Fly decoupled and don't go straight at them. If you are getting hit then you need to increase your distance from the target while increasing angular momentum. The mobs literally are incapable of shooting a target moving over a certain angular velocity relative to them.
>but if ur on a good server it's like walking head first into 3-6 flying turrets. And ur too slow to even get behind them.
You are not supposed to take out solo multiple targets each having more HP and DPS than you.
Btw, do permanent screwcork when attacking AI, keep distance like 1-1.3km, at this distance it is impossible to hit target shooting at PiP if target constantly changes flight direction. Because PiP "predicts" target position if target moves in straight direction. When you do screwcork this prediction doesn't work, PiP moves by circles showing position where you will never be. AI doesn't understand this, and miss permanently, you just need to find proper strafe/roll ratio. Server FPS in this case doesn't matter, because PiP will not work properly even at 100fps.
@@BuzzCutPsycho make him feel good about himself... buzz has been paid
I just have to shout out the beautiful gameplay on screen. Solo melee hammerhead is truly something i never thought I'd see.
lol I picked it for a reason and glad somebody finally called it out.
I'm still on the fence whether I like or dislike MM. There is however one change that needs to happen, and that is related to shields. Not having shields during nav mode is fine except when you are QT'ing. I have been on the receiving end and dishing out end of players getting yanked out of QT and getting absolutely destroyed because they can't get their shields on or up before being destroyed. That's a huge problem for any size ship considering you have just reduced the time to kill down to seconds. And now with precision mode any size ship that gets pulled from QT is going to loose 100% of the time unless their attackers are extremely outnumbered.
It would be really cool as an improvement to MM that you have the ability to have your shields on, but it shares power with the QT drive. So you could keep things like they are now and zip around the system with fully powered QT, making travel extremely fast. Or you could half your power to QT and half it to the shields. Shields would be at 50% and your QT wouldn't be able to reach top speeds but you are sacrificing speed for protection. Something like that would be cool and make traveling more in depth but we will see.
Agreed on the shields part tbh
Ovewrlooked are the huge number of platers who dont do thew whole light fighter thing at all. MM has messed up non combat ships quite badly. That's the elephant in the room. You're out there in a Vulture and some kid shows in an F7, you may as well just Alt F4, you can't run and you can't fight. But if you could keep up shields, running away and QT to safewty was an option. So MM is a problem looking for a solution.
Honestly I kinda dig that part of MM. You have a dedicated working vessel and he has a dedicated light fighter. Your the sheep, hes the Wolf. Thats Rock paper Siccors balancing. Yk, the one that made Battlefield big before they forgot about it
@little_lord_tam if ot had consequences then.just maybe.
But it doesn't so that's poor choices again.
By your logic, which holds some water, why is the aforementioned Vulture (or Prospector or Hull A etc) even armed and given shields?
MM is basically bad. The arguments I've seen suggesting there's a connection with server performance do come over as persuasive.
CR wants "Pacific War in space" yet evolved a situation where one Zero can sink a US cruiser, if not a carrier, and live to brag about it. That's wrong at "start over and get it right next time" level.
MM was clearly not properly tested, or even thought through, outside the light fighter environment. Couple that with the execitive idea that it's all about said environment and you've a foul up in the making.
@@andrewfanner2245 1. I neither enjoy MM nor the exploit heavy system before that. CIG's Vision is flawed imo and their not even achieving that one.
2. Working vessels need self defense tools because it forces pirates to actualy bring combat vessels. Its an armsrace kind of thing
I ain't denying that one bit but I was focused on the fighters in this video. Industry ain't got it good I admit.
@little_lord_tam the tools, clearly designed without considering MM are sufficiently inadequate that canning MM is the better call.
For working ships see also starters barring the Titan, now "curiously" a combat meta.
Imo the issue with Master Modes (and by extend, most of the previous FMs), is that CIG doesn't iterate on them.
They've introduced some big changes, some for the better, others for the worse. The players that dislike certain new features/changes usually have a valid point. But instead of trying to combine the best features from the new and the old FM, CIG tells the players that they wont make any big changes before 4.0, so the disappointed players will leave. And they've done this with every FM since 3.0 dropped.
They NEED to continue adjusting MM and try out different approaches. Actually, I was hoping they would do this with the experimental modes...
You are correct and it is my hope that MM will be iterated on. So they claim they will.
Hard pass. Flying in master modes simply feels like crap. Fighting in master modes is just a shift from a trichording meta to a DPS race + pop noise & nav out meta. There are still OP meta ships just like before. Good players can still stomp on groups of less skilled players just like before. Light fighters can still solo AI Redeemers and Hammerheads. It's all just a bit less fun now. Focusing on the current state of ship combat balance in the game is mostly pointless because we know that everything is changing again post 4.0 so why even bother. Would love to see their active player data. That would settle the question of whether ship combat changes are helping to make the game a better product or not.
What about funding data? We have more funding this year than last, post MM.
@@BuzzCutPsycho
Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
@@BuzzCutPsycho Are you saying there was a funding increase because so many existing players loved MM that they pledged extra? Why didn't you lead with that info in this video then? Sounds like it would be quite compelling if you could make that connection.
@@tfishr its in the next one
@BuzzCutPsycho funding, percent growth is not even breaking typical cost of living 3%. Not to mention ILW biggest ship sale ever ie quality of ships. More sales this year total. Finally expect a huge IAE with new ships then previous ones. Cig is pulling out big holds, f8c, titans to barely break previous records.
MM is an endless good player salt mine. Sure we can exploit the current meta, like ramming in a Hammerhead, or flying backwards in a corsair, but is this really what you call skill based? Recent Fight or Flight tournament was amazing, but only because it banned medium and heavy fighters.
Wild that the supposed op interceptor didn't win. Also, banning ships isn't a dig at MM rather balance. Balance and MM are separate.
MM feels bad even for salvage and mining. It’s not intuitive feels unnatural. It’s immersion shattering.
I think it’s not appropriate to tar every feedback giver with the same brush here.
Since MM came out of ptu and especially since yogis comments feedback has been crazy negative. This is even before A1s video. From many different game loops the most common theme is it feels less fun. Jarring and generally janky as all hell.
Yogi might have misspoke but until he clarifies it seems like they are going to let this flight system rewrite fester in the community till after 4.0 is out. Which is just insane to me from a software development perspective.
No software development company worth a damn would drop something internally developed like this into a broad community and then have no resources to acknowledge, triage, iterate and implement fixes for right after release. It’s an abject failure of an open development model they claim to support
I speak purely from a combat POV, the other stuff will change.
You're wrong. But it's ok to be wrong. MM makes the game that much better. It slows combat down, makes it way more visceral and cinematic. It makes flying much more fun. Salvaging stayed basically the same. Did you salvage over 200 scm? I don't think so. What is immersion breaking? That you have to switch mode when you want to change location? It's MORE immersive.
@@captainharlock3998 I disagree, mode switching is jarring, space has drag, I don’t need to think about how to stop by a resource node the space break stops me basically instantly.
There’s no drag in space, the pilot shouldn’t survive the space break gforce, no shields when in nav. It’s all just a bit contrived.
If you were having problems keeping your speed under control without master modes, that’s simply a skill issue, nothing more.
It’s ok to have different opinions, but it’s a grade school fact space has no drag and coming to an abrupt stop would be dangerous. Even kids learn that pretty quickly
@@Anonymous-m9f9j space has no drag, your ship's computer make the deceleration. fly in decoupled always, and you'll have no drag. Besides, SC, since it's very inception, never tried to be a space sim in terms of mechanics. Space Sim was solely used to describe it as a space genre, like ED, and NMS. Not like hardcore sim mechanics like those who are wrong about SC seem to think it should be.
@@BuzzCutPsycho but how do u speak from a combat pov when ur a roc miner?
Honestly o think the discussion is the best part. I agree with some parts of A1s vid, i also agree with some parts here. I think that master modes is just a poor implementation of the concept they were trying to achieve. I mean did they try do what seems to work for 99% of other mmos to lower combat speeds without impacting travel ? Which would be to essentially automatically switch you to SCM if you become "in combat" or some tools to snare "reduce the speed" of someone you are engaging, like swapping out a weapon or 2 for a type that causes reduces scm speed effect to prevent rogues and rangers... I mean interceptors always running away.
Hell, they could just make it that distortion damage builds up in engines first causing them to have a limited output.
Well this video was not really a response to the A1 video. It was recorded before his was out. My next one is more detailed and is a response to him and others like him.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I mean sure it's not a response, I merely mentioned I've seen both and they are from opposing viewpoints. Both of which have some valid points and some I feel a bit biased by experiences. Regardless, I think the SC community needs to start voting with their wallets.
Oh, hey, I'm going too fast. Let me hit this deceleration button. Oh, I'm still going too fast. Hey, I have another magic deceleration button called my landing gear.
I believe in Yogi and his team and I agree that we needed to be slowed down. Something needed to change.. However, master modes is still Inelegant, unbelievable garbage.
My brain simply refuses to believe That I'm playing an actual simulator in space. For instance, Star Citizen doesn't seem to have this particular physical law.
Newton's First Law of Motion states that a body at rest will remain at rest unless an outside force acts on it, and a body in motion at a constant velocity will remain in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force.
If a body experiences an acceleration ( or deceleration) or a change in direction of motion, it must have an outside force acting on it. Outside forces are sometimes called net forces or unbalanced forces.
The property that a body has that resists motion if at rest, or resists speeding or slowing up, if in motion, is called inertia. Inertia is proportional to a body's mass, or the amount of matter that a body has. The more mass a body has, the more inertia it has.
Go out into the middle of the solar system between the planets, go as fast as you can with your Nav on, and then shut your engines off. You will slow down. It'll take a little while, but you slow down. This suggests that CIG's space has a special type of fluid dynamics that doesn't exist in our universe.
Also, I've always been garbage at PVP and I look forward to the next set of tweaks to the flight model.
You can disable the landing gear slow down btw.
@@BuzzCutPsycho You're absolutely right. Mostly I'm just Bitter about my ghost being stomped on by the new flight model. Can't be sneaky sneaky in nav mode. Makes me feel like I have to fly my F7A Mark II. However, I still have fun in my 325 and 315p.
Another angy realism shitter. It's so tiresome. Just go away please, this is a videogame made to be fun.
How about a new take on this, The high speed combat looked more cinematic and mm feels like a space game from 2005
I'm a bad pilot but I enjoy MM way more before people fucked off as soon as their shields were down and there was nothing you could do. Now they have to turn off their weapons shields and counter measures so at least I can force them to slow down again by firing a missile.
I do think that fighters need a bit more agility tho but all of this is a question of tuning.
I'm sure MM isn't perfect but at least you can end a fight now.
People forget fights only happened pre MM if both parties wanted it to.
@@BuzzCutPsycho a choice stupid.. some like it.. the masses i would think except the small minded like you
I can't remember a system that's been introduced to the game that has upset so many people. There has to be a point where, whether CIG change it or not, you accept that a large chunk of the player base despise MM for subjective yet valid reasons. Ultimately, it will be the money that makes the decision. CIG seem very short-termist about that right now.
Spectrum isn't a large chunk of the player base. It's a containment zone for the mentally ill. Yourself included.
@@BuzzCutPsycho "It's just happening in Spectrum ... It's just happening in Spectrum" ... *Rocks backwards and forwards*
@BuzzCutPsycho I mean it's happening on your comment section, most everyone disagrees with you
@@LuckyAJC
Wrong. Look at the like to dislike ratios. You're either willingly stupid or trying to be stupid. Which is it?
@@BuzzCutPsycho can't see dislikes retard, it's youtube
The “one or two strategies” is such a straight arrow statement; I’m so glad it was highlighted by Yogi.
Me too. He was very brave to face the mob.
Unless other people pay money for people to play your game [esports] those top 1% can get flushed every week and the majority of the games population will never notice.
The top 1% of in any game, no matter how loud are the eaiester group to replace that generate the least amount of profit. Losing the 1% that is there "now" is easily replaced and opens up space for newer 99% players. The games that cater to that 1% fail nearly all the time. Only CSgo really caters to it and is "profitable" because it makes money of it being an esport. Valve could lose 1mil$ an hour on csgo and not notice. That top 1% are the most disposable player and often times where the worst "design" decisions comes from as it is a myopic focus on how to make the game fun for them so that it remains within their control.
NAILED IT. The 1% do NOT matter.
Fine with MM but tricording is realistic. Thought that was what this project was about. Found the spectrum post from CIG was rather insulting even for me and I do pvp rarely.
Fair, but I think realism is gone. I do not know enough about space flight to know whether it was realistic or not.
'muh realism' dont let the door hit you on the way out
Tricording is NOT realistic in terms of spaceship engeneering. If you have a reactor that transforms fuel into energy to provide thrust, this reactor has limited capacity, say a 100% capacity at a time. These 100% of total capacity all should be able to be applied to forward moving (march) thrusters to provide max acceleration to the direction your ship needs to go, and if you need a maneuvering thrusters correction, you take some part of these 100%, say 15% for feeding those maneuvering thrusters, thus leaving only 85% to feed march (forward moving) thrusters, that is it. You may say that each thruster could have its own reactor, but if so, why boost applies to all thrusters at the same time by pressibg one button? Do you think that maneuvering thrusters have their own afterburner chambers? I dont think so. The forward moving must privide max acceleration, period.
As a new player i have no issue with MM. As a non combat player, MM is great. If I don't want to fight i have an option to run. A skilled player or team may still manage to take me down but it was at least possible. They way the old system is explained i could never shake off a more skilled player. They could go faster than my industrial ship while shooting me to pieces. SCM and NAV mode give me a chance
You're gonna make those skilled players work for it and require a mantis too
They really should just scrap it all. They wont, but they should. Tune the speeds within one bubble, weapon range, projectile life, GET FREAKING ARMOR IN THE GAME, stop trying to make space combat like wwII dogfights. Star Wars is a movie. If we are playing a space sim bound to our understanding of Newtonian physics, then let it be that. There is plenty of atmo for that type of dogfighting, yeah? If I was the boss of everyone, I would scrap it along with the jank HUD ui elements. Start tuning by bringing the ratio of main thrusters power to maneuvering thrusters WAY up. Flatten that bubble a little bit. But Im not the boss of everyone.
Chris Roberts has a long history of making WWII dogfighting in space, while it sounded at first like it was going to be more Newtonian than previous endeavors it was never going to be full Newtonian. It is extremely difficult to make a full Newtonian flight model actually fun while still appealing to wider audiences.
Would love to see armor but don't want MM scrapped.
I'd agree if tri-chording didn't take all of 5 minutes to explain, but that CIG never cared to inform players. MM is doomed, it will always feel bad for the reasons above.
@@dex6147in 2013, CR wrote a paper which is still on RSI website. Speaks about trichording and a fun and exciting 6dof flight model.
This is what they sold for a decade then switched without asking anyone. They didn’t ask or tell community until announcing they did it 2 years into dev of this shit model. In the past, they asked us if we wanted to increase scope and people were excited about it.
Small minority like master modes and it’s bad for the longevity of the game. You have to be smooth brained to think it’s a good model.
There‘s a reason why Elite Dangerous still hasn‘t died despite mountains of horrible developer decisions, the reason is the flying, specifically the combat flying in it is extremely fun. Absolute freedom for the player, the only limitations in place are to make sure that the game engine and the player can somewhat handle the flight model. And it‘s glorious. Star Citizen was like that, once. I‘d argue it was even better. Now it feels terrible, PvE fights have you constantly hugging the enemies, constantly worrying about getting rammed because everything moves so slow, i feel like i‘ve lost all control, can‘t decide when to close in or extend any more. Was never much of a PvPer but could hold my own in Arrow duels, and was pretty decent with the Vanguard as well. Now after coming back to the game with MM, i don‘t even want to try. Duels will just be obnoxious dps races and group fights will be the same crap as before except you now have to toggle funni speeeed mode to relocate after disengaging. And solo light fighter vs group? Forget it, i‘d just get bumrushed, not a chance any more. Really not seeing the appeal.
I want the old Sustym back good or bad I liked it.
:(
Since 3.3.3, I was playing mostly as a bounty hunter with lot of PvP bounties.
But I drop doing that in 3.8 because of :
- Excessive bug usage (I don't like to play against cheaters)
- Excessive broken meta (I don't own the meta ship)
- The added initial mission to unlock PvP what we need to redo after each character reset / repair and which is really annoying to accomplish.
Currently, I still don't plan to do it again while the st*pid mission to unlock PvP bounties is still there, as well as the missile bug usage…
But, for the few time I did some PvP combat with MM, it was quite interesting.
You know I totally forgot about the endless mission unlock stuff that kept happening over the micro wipes during 3.23. I remember moving all my stuff and the next day having to do it again. Then the following micro patch next week the same thing. That broke me.
I agree with you 100%! Especially the part about Hornet MK2. The happiest time to play with MM in AC was 3.23PTU, when there were no 90% Hornets in a match, and could see that all ships had their place.
Hornet did the most damage and seemingly nobody is mentioning that. This nonsense talk about the Bucc is just that nonsense.
I'm not a sweaty pvp nerd and I don't like MM. I'm more than happy to get shit on by a skilled pilot because that inspires me to get better. MM feels like garbage and I can HONESTLY say I have been playing less since. There's more to do than ever before so that's not why numbers are dropping.
So what is it, just the speed?
@@BuzzCutPsycho I was under the impression that this game is supposed to have combat simulation but when they dumb down and artificially restrict speed and movement it just feels lame. I don't want to be coddled or dropped into a padded plan pen with the other kids. I want realism.
@@shumuss sadly for you that just isn't going to happy. Realism usually gets in the way of fun. Also it has been a cig policy to push realism and then dial back for fun. CR himself said that exact phrase.
@@BuzzCutPsycho They've doubled back before so I guess we'll see.
MM is fine its whiny bitches are the problem.. fuck this game was way worst than it is now LOL.. i mean fuck some people are just retarded lol
Dude review the numbers. There were more players playing before MM and now it is way down.
Correlation doesn’t equal causation, brainiac. It’s mostly the abject failure this year has been when compared to the monumental hype that CIG created. The only people that play this game regularly are losers with no self respect.
@@Crittek of all languages you chose to speak straight facts, *savage*
What about the funding? Do those numbers count? Because funding this year is up.
@@BuzzCutPsychofunding is more a metric of the fervor of whales and how expensive the ships released that year were ($180 racing ship with lots of paints, 2 $500+ ships, polaris promises)
@BuzzCutPsycho and posters here, this is a duplicated post I originally posted in reply to the same question. 👇
Which could be a result of advertising. We can't say this is true or false either way. This is really what it comes down to, we don't have the data nor do you know how CIG is interpreting the data they have. It's going to need more time to bake.
This is like reliving the demise of Quake Multiplayer. Quake has an opaque movement system similar to tricording. As soon as more accessible FPS games arrived people moved away. For those of us who stayed in Quake, we destroy any new player. For those who want this extremely high skill ceiling with low accessibility like Quake, your game will die.
In the meantime I'm still enjoying Quake, but I'm not naive as to why we are such a tiny community. People have moved on to Team Fortress, Fortnite, Counter Strike and the like, because those are more forgiving, accessible, and does not have such an extreme disparity between veteran players and new players.
Its hard fact to accept. For Quake to be more accessible it would also have to be dumbed down, remove strafe jumping and air control, decrease the speed, remove spawnable items etc. I'm glad they did not do it. But that's why id is making Doom after Doom and not a new Quake.
People forget CS was the Quake alternative and people took it. Good call brother.
I think what SC needs is to cater its flight model and Tactics around fleet battles. We really haven't had those in real capacity, largely thanks to server restrictions, but it really should be the focus. I think a lot of the reasons for the salt is because everything has been so duel centric, and why I have never been satisfied with combat in any regard in any patch I have played.
Granted, even when it comes to ship duels, I never had great deal of fun with those either due to lack of meaningful customization and tactics.
I think MM is a step towards possibly getting something like that as it currently benefits group fights more than 1v1s.
Great points, totally agree. For this to be a game that lasts for years you need to make it enjoyable for the many, not just the few. Games die when they do that.
Yes, the average joe is your biggest player base. You get it.
And this is exactly what MM killed, or attempting to. Oh game is still cool, as long as you stay away from space battles. Yeah. A space "sim" where flight model sucks. A space sim which is great, as long as you don't fight. 😅😅
Like or hate MM, it has driven a large portion of the player base away from the game, during a time when it desperately needs them. 2024 has been an incredibly lackluster year, all that "we held the line" energy from CitizenCon is gone now. New player numbers have been falling in the past couple of years, but in 2024 it fell hard. So the project is going to rely on the same people that already spent thousands, to continue spending more thousands to keep the level of funding they need. And we are still years away from a 1.0 release. Probably 5+ on a generous estimate.
People say that but there is no proof it has driven anyone away and funding doesn't support that. Nor do the AC leaderboard stats.
@@BuzzCutPsycho liar
@@BuzzCutPsychoI am only one person, so of course "I" do not count, but "I" cannot willingly play MM, it is A$$. "I" cannot even bind enough keys/duel stick setup and layout to make this remotely playable/"enjoyable."
"I" also cannot willingly fly a ship with all of my HUD and chat bubbles and entire ship shaking and rattling either. It was smooth as butter preMM.
"I" was just enjoying some space ship flight, and dog fight some npc pirates, now you just loop around your target in a close circle.
I only start trashing propads and self destructing anything I can get into AFTER I get tired of trying to figure out what is keeping me from playing this time loggin into the game...
If flight was not MM right now, I would probably still bare through all the bugs and bs, but then I think of every time "I" go to actually play the game and the shuttle does not work, or the server crashes, possibly Hurston does not even spawn in or something else keeps coming up to make it so undesirable, that the main thing SC did for me preMM was flying a space ship.
So if there "will be" other iterations of the new MM flight mechanic I am willing to give it another go, but how is this one more thing put last on the CIG list to polish and implement? WHEN and WHERE does all of the other stuff get added into the list as well to get polished (even just a TINY BIT!!!!!) and implemented?
Know what pisses me off more then anything? When I store my C1 Spirit with all the interior lights set to red/aux, then retrieve my ship and all the lights are set back to standard lighting, but THEN "I" have to DOUBLE CLICK every light switch to get it back to the red/aux lighting, because every light switch has a BUG when you store & retrieve it, that the first click is like setting it back to standard (even though they are already set at standard, but the light switch does not know this...) then next clicks to get it back to the actual red/aux lighting.
WHEN CIG???!!!..............
WHEN???!!!.......................................................
NEVER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE! They don't make money fixing ships they already sold, just keep the money train rolling. Heck yea that Pulse is only $20, lots of small sales add up!! How many people you think paid the $20 for the Pulse? If that Pulse has a problem/quirk, just put it on the back burner until later, until later, until later... Lets design and drop another ship on the market in the mean time.
I really felt that "uggghhhh" kinda how i feel.
Im invested *cough*5k*cough*, but thebgame isnt in a state i want to play. I log in after updates, check out the landscape and log out, at least untill its living and breathing.
5k aint bad. You should be shooting for 15k next right? Hah! But yeah, I am with you I just log in to check stuff out and log out nowadays.
background footage of just ramming ships with a hammer head while dunking on master modes haters is probably peak, state of the game right now. Very funny and well done.
Once again thanks for putting basically my thoughts exactly into a video I can share to others with basically "game sucks right now, but this isn't why". Out of this entire year so far yeah very few things including master modes has been notibly actually an improvement.
I am so glad you noticed that, btw. I picked that footage in hopes people would understand the meta humor of it.
This is all subjective perspective without any explanation why he feels MM is good. Funny guy but it doesn't make any sense. For example why this game can't be easy to get but hard to master?
The game must be easy to get and difficult to master. That is the entire basis of a good design. Hard to get into and even harder to master would be the dumbest design ever.
As someone who plays flight sims and is interested in SC but never actually played: the combat looks so boring, slow, and overall awful. Is this game ever going to be good?
Other than that, it seems like there is such a mismatch between player expectation of close-in cannon shooting and realistic space flight physics - it just doesn't work.
It is meant to be a game and not a flight sim. Sim seems to have various different meanings to different people. Maybe DCS will release a space combat module.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I am not a sim elitist, I used to be a huge fan of Freespace 1/2 with fake aero physics. I'm just saying that combat seems to suck in SC, it just doesn't look fun or interesting to me. Maybe they should drop semi-realistic physics and just do fake plane physics that would match the desired guns-centric gameplay... But this should have been sorted out 10 years ago.
yeah, like idk how people can look at the project currently and say the (im)popularity is due to MM. It’s because of the sluggish pace of development, with .23 being split into two patches and 4.0 being delayed, as well as the numerous bugs and tedium associated with the cargo refactor. The cargo refactor, by the way, is similar to MM in that it is a crucial puzzle piece in making the game work as intended, and a step in the right direction, but without the full compliment of accessory features (different kinds of cargo, more loading vehicles, updated ships like the Carrack for cargo; armour, flak, aerodynamics for fighting/flying) it feels underwhelming.
Hey remember the mule? Get your cargo walker and forget that thing !!
The majority of those I see being salty about Master Modes started salivating when they heard your shields will drop when you enter nav mode. They aren't interested in playing the part of a pirate, they just want to blow people up. But, when they learned it won't work that way, they got super salty and won't shut up. I'm so glad CIG isn't listening to them.
I couldn't care less if the shields stayed up tbh, it's such a small fish to me.
Im surprised this is still even an argument.
Also seeing Godrick the Grafted as a pilot made me chuckle a bit. Imagine him killing you and assimilating pieces of your ship into his own
it not we just stilll have people who are mad we even have planets and a green skybox LOL... people who cry about MM need to just find a better hobby than playing an alpha LOL
clue is in the fucking name
ikr. its been almost a year and they are still crying. ig when you spend 8 years mastering shit you really fall in love with shit. wish they would just f**k off though. its not like that old fm is ever coming back.
It is still an issue because children refuse to move on and cry about their favorite toy being changed
I can't say I like Mindless Modes. I call it that because it is completely illogical. No sane person wants to lose shields while they are being attacked. It makes zero sense to tie shield loss to Nav' Mode activation. Weapons, sure. It also makes no sense to drastically decelerate, just because you put down your landing gear; or for doing so, to limit your speed to a snail's pace. The "idea" of Master Modes is not bad, in and of itself. But, implementation is really bad. Something needed to be done, and something has been. I just hope it wasn't all because Squadron 42 has Master Modes. If so, then that will be two games ruined by this insanity. I agree change is needed. But there has GOT to be a better way. Sorry Yogi. This isn't personal, I just want the game to be amazing.
You can disable the speed being reduced when gear is down btw
@@BuzzCutPsycho Great, I will look for that. It is set far too slow.
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic. I do think that non-combat ships need better flight characteristics/defenses or both, just a reasonable chance to escape.
Non combat needs love i will not dispute that
I'm starting to think that Valve is the one selling the Cheats, making accounts to sell, and selling prime. Like how Blizzard is selling Gold by the subscription tokens.
I would hope not I used to love valve
So much dishonesty and lies. The pvp community are some of the longest playing, most skilled, most knowledgeable and most passionate players in the game. Many OGs. You kind of don't want to lose that playerbase. Plus we all know it is not just pvp players that dislike master modes. Look at what they did to the racing community.
They're a total minority in the player base and AC reflects that.
But you're the most easily replaced and easily forgotten. The top pvpers from cod to tarkov. [Which is on the precipice of closing down] are a deterrent to new players and where toxicity foments like overwatch. Shaving off the top1% from your game makes you money gets new players. Every game that still exists cycles out that 1% frequently.
And no I ain't no carebear. Eve null sec, mo2, etc. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
For me, racing died with 3.0
Yeah, but I don't know why master modes has to be linked to tri cord limiters
You could have always added to try cording limiters in the old flight model easy enough
engine, network, speed, etc.
@@BuzzCutPsycho what about that couldn't work with the old system, we could have even lowered the speed in the old system, maybe not to the same extent because we still need traversal
The issues I have with master modes is switching modes feels clunky and awful, and as a vulture or prospector you need to lower your shields to run away when your only option is to run away? Why do they even put shields on industrial ships then? The game that flirts with the idea of permadeath mechanics in the future with the death of the Spaceman do you really think being forced to turn off your Shields to almost be instantly wiped out by a fighter sounds fun?
Like honestly why would any industrial manufacturer actually put shields on their spaceships, seems like a waste of weight and power. You'd almost just want to make a thicker hull seeing that it can't help during the transition to nav mode
I've gotten used to MMs and have adapted to it. Biggest dislike is all the added modes of nav but when we get quantum boosting that'll be 1 more mode to add to the list. Just a hassle getting my mappings the way I want them but finally got my VKBs in a comfortable setup. Wish switching to NAV didn't drop shields but it is what it is.
I am 100% sure a lot of it will change, but people aint getting back the tricords.
But by switching to Nav mode now has a risk. You want more speed? Great now you don't have shields. Risk vs reward.
1:24 "They hated him because he spoke the truth."
That's a good one LOL
@@BuzzCutPsycho Galatians 4:16
You are right. Maybe just one thing. I dont know if the funding have growed is a good argument. To easy to attack. I would reconsider it.
Everything is easy to attack by the unreasonable.
Master modes is garbage... everyone knows it. This video is a pure lie that we have the lowest AC population due to lack of content, that's not true. If master modes so good why I dont see new people playing or acing this game, no new players trying to master the modes 😅. All the low skill players are not going to be interested in pvp just because flight model changes. If you want this game to die go head continue defending master modes.
You still my #1 fan?
You can do same strat, just nav out. Also if you switch to nav then back to combat mode your shields reset and regarded faster compared to them being depleted from combat
Sounds like a balance issue not a MM issue.
@BuzzCutPsycho oh I agree, just pointing out that the strat is still there.
CIG just won't accept that the game mechanic of MM is a stink they caused the community a polarized stand.
Well I can tell you which side will win.
On X MM its wining 60% against 40% period, and what i like about MM its the commitment when you engage others, its dificult to explain foro me, see you on the verse o7
@@emefx.u4064You can get better percentage by asking 10 of your friends that think MM is fine. So if you're an indefensible ship like Drake Vulture or MPUV tractor, you'll MM them to commit to a dogfight they can't win? Can you see the failure of your logic?
So have you asked the rest of the player base
in your
P E R I O D???
Your right, someone made a video with the falsified statements that MM was responsible for the low player count. No, cargo is totally non functioning so miners, cargo runners and by extension pirates can profit off of their chosen gameplay loops. That is a large percentage of the player base who can't play.
YES I forgot about this. 3.24 just hardly works! THE WHOLE GAME HARDLY WORKS.
This is a wild statement to me, I've been playing again over the past few days and had gracefully few bugs, the biggest being a single 2 SCU box that disappeared into the void when I was moving it to the cargo elevator. Just going my normal mining and salvaging gameplay loops, idk. Maybe just lucky.
I feel like the sentiment and feedback of MM opponents is constantly being ignored while I also think they are the people that probably spend the most time doing combat
Because the suggestion is revert it. Which is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and not happening.
definitely not a top tier "light fighter" pvper but we are playing a futuristic space game where the ships are going slower then ww2 prop planes, that doesn't feel good and to be honest my interest in the game has dropped alot since MM came out because i feel the new missile spam meta is even worse then the old light fighter meta
Blame CR for wanting WW2 in space, btw, we are going around Mach 1 i believe.
Can we just all stop and appreciate the HH ramming in this video haha
Hahahahah
In this case, I watched both videos and I tend to say "you're both right". The arguments A1 presents are not wrong after all as far as I can see. The question is how much does he extrapolate into the future - and he says that the basic geometry will always shuffle around the current meta problems. Personally I felt PVE combat was more difficult with MM, but overall the sense of flight coming with it just feels so awkward and unnatural that it is hard for me to get used to it.
Well my next one is in direct response to his. I recorded this early.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I keep checking your channel for it already ;)
MM is driving player participation down.
On tri-cording, everyone was doing it; even noobs with 10 hours of playtime were unconsciously button-bashing and recording!
I'm a trader, and I was doing it.
Saying that just PVP players were doing it it just nonsense!
Trichording was a bug, a flaw in the vector transform calculations. It wasn't ever meant to be a thing. That makes it an exploit
I think the game being bad is driving it down.
true
Trr-chording was not an exploit, it was a simple mechanic than anyone could learn. The main issue was the most pilots couldn't control their speeds using the throttle and brake. So slowing the game down and adding speed walls is CIG's fix to the above.
Well it's gone now!
Stability and bugs are the reason SC is never going to be 100% embraced.
And lack of reason to play.
@BuzzCutPsycho nope, it's what @RazSkull673 said.
The game is pretty shit regardless of all these bugs, the bugs are an issue but the extreme lack of content is also a big one
@@El1qt you have a lack of imagination. Lol
@@bones3915 lack of imagination? It’s not up to me to make the gameplay, the game is supposed to provide and create opportunities for it to naturally occur. Not to mention this so called ‘MMO’ doesn’t even have any basic mechanics. Economy? No. Progression system? No. Risk and incentive? No. Connected game loops? No. Any meaningful gameplay? No.
I hate MM.
Your mother hates you.
Same mm fkn blows
@@BuzzCutPsycho F%#k, I better call Her!
All this guy does is fly around in a mole contributing to master modes and his combat pov? are you fighting rocks? u have no clue and this video should be removed
I am in a Hammerhead not a mole.
You can't even distinguish between different ships, even calling hammerhead mole hahaha 🤣.
I love engaging noobs and having them have no chance to run because of MM. All I do is wait for them to panic and go into NAV mode and thats that.
Easy.
Is that based?
@@BuzzCutPsycho i dont know what that is, but it's a fact, ganking is easier than ever, new players could at least run before, now they just get a couple of missiles up their ass that they can't defend against
it's even easier now if you dampen them, they can't even get to nav speeds this way and die with no shields or speed
MM being advertised as some sort of noob friendly update has brought me so many victims lmao
Kinda hilarious MM is their response for trichording and shit AI
@@KazNDS agreed
Mastermodes feels terrible imo, but I dont want CIG to listen to me anyways, the space ship combat I want doesnt exist and would be way too hardcore
Now this is a genuine and honest take. I don't think SC could handle what you want. Nor could CIG make it.
MM is amazing, I’ve always said I’ve liked it. Yes tuning needs to be done but it’s so good.
Did you watch the E atmo tournament? It was fun to watch. Was boring when they did it in the last flight model.
I think the time to kill is a little to quick right now though. Mistakes are heavily punishable
I did watch it. Did you also notice how it didn't have any Buccs in the finals?
Still think master modes suck personally. i don't do much pvp, i was and am a terrible pilot. But i enjoyed the more realistic thought that guns being active wouldn't mess with speed, especially with ballistic. There is no way to explain that the energy consumption keeps the ship slow. End up like starfield making a game for everyone but nobody. I'm okay not having an incentive to do pvp because it's dangerous and people will and usually are better than me. I was okay with the fact i could get dominated at any moment. But now it feels the same, only the metaphorical grandma is stuck driving because even when people do come to kill me now, it's just in slow motion comparatively, and it feels boring. I want to fly a starship, not drive a toyota with a little nos in it.
engine limitations, etc.
Flying in a group to fight bounties pre-MM was awful. We'd always end up dozens of km away from each other in our own little battles, unable to coordinate at all. With MM, we can reliably work the same target, or if we are fighting different ones they aren't so far apart - so I can kill my target, then turn, boost and help my buddy almost straight away.
I like the double-stage slowdown as well. I can fly full NAV up to the station, then "change down" into SCM to move closer to the hangar, then landing gear to smoothly cruise down. I appreciate the ability to do that without tweaking my joystick curves.
There's still a bunch of systems yet to plug in before we can really see the full picture (armor, resource network, etc) so I don't support much radical tweaking as yet (and definitely don't support the idiotic notion of just throwing it all out).
Group play pre-MM for everything was awful and near impossible. People seem to forget that!
Is this the same BuzzCutPsycho (i.e., Horrigan) from The Enclave in World of Warcraft?
One and only
With player count so low why do people feel that telling them to not play is good for the game ?
Because the game just isn't worth playing atm.
1. There are still players engaged in a 7 V 1 fight and winning after MM was introduced. And most just change to travel mode to get away and shield up, then reengage again.
2. I have made multiple attempts to play Arena Commander and almost never see people on.
3. Since this latest MM update the PU has been pretty dead lately and I have seen a lack of holistic PVP encounters in the universe which is pretty much a bummer.
4. CIG burning the veteran lightfighter community is a bad move because they advertise the game and help build up the community with tips and tricks videos and live streams. They're needed just as much in this community as the rest of these influencers.
Maybe tricording wasn't the best system, but it seems like this current system has burned most players so clearly something else needs to be explored to get this system in a much more manageable place.
I will do a video about what I hate about MM after my next one
I am playing MWO until they make this fun again
You may be in MWO a long time
Id love to have a flight model like in "I-War" from the past. Full Newton model.
Don't think SC engine can handle that.
The new space game coming outta France is going to destroy star citizen and they have 6 axis and you don’t have to buy ships
Wtf I love France now
Yogi basically admitted MM was purely designed around combat. Im ok with the changes for combat, though it probably went too far into simple/accesible. It seemed like he recognized the problems it generated in non-pvp gameplay, which is my biggest issue with it, but hopefully they actualy have a way to deal with them. Not sure its actually possible to with the core aspect of MM being the button press mode switch and timer. That fundamental aspect of MM kills flight flow outside of PVP and makes mining specifically more annoying than the bugs.
Non combat players get the worst of it and I fully admit that
Good vid. What you described at 3min mark is the entirety of how high level fortnite is played. You nailed why I no longer play SC. It is a game that has ONE solar system that takes 100+gigs... HD real estate does not allow SC in at this point. Imagine being locked in Shinrata Dezra in Elite Dangerous... That is what is like playing SC. To me SC is trying to be planet side 3 but way slower and nothing really works right and everyone is disorganized but at least it looks kinda cool but that kinda cool sheen wears off fast when the game makes you feel like your living with a 1997 computer that can barely run UT99. I think you should branch out to other space games time to time bc your logic and reasoning is sound and we need more of that in the gaming industry as a whole. Thanks.
Thank you! I usually don't get nice comments like this so I appreciate them when they happen.
Time is an issue for me when it comes to branching out. I work a lot and YT is a hobby of mine so I don't often get a chance to play many other games much less research and make videos for them. But who knows what will happen in a year or two? It may change.
I always have a lot to say.
@@BuzzCutPsycho I am here for it. Keep it up.
Dude, I've been TRYING to talk some sense into the people on Spectrum, they completely ignore ANYTHING unless its "MM needs to go immediately"
I mentioned how Yogi and CIG are the only ones with combat data and they're happy with what they're seeing, and some guy responded to me with the Wikipedia page for "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics".
They think they're pseudo intellectuals but in reality they're just dummies.
So, the Cartman's of SC are still mad they can't compete in the special olympics to feel like champions anymore? Say it isn't so...lulz. I want that atmospheric flight model with stall speeds to end fighters street sweeping under JT buildings and to make VTOL drop ships and land units crucial for planet raids/defense. Tunings aside ships can have characters and feel more substantial now vs a flicky bike. I think they still need to tweak a ton of parameters but that has to happen to add armor, ammo types, dynamic damage, etc. Change and time is the only constant in the SC universe.
Hey don't insult the special Olympics by comparing the two!
Mastermodes is CIG dumbing down combat so noobs can and will buy SQ42. It means money to CIG. So they will NEVER get rid of it. You don't count.
I always count im super smart important and cool
I've begun pointing out on the forums that the people bitching about MM are upset that they "feel slow" because they are no longer literally faster than many of the projectiles in game. Of course you feel slow when you can't outrun bullets... It's harder to avoid getting shot now! In all of this discussion i discovered that the gripers complaining that they feel like they are on rails and not even playing a space game don't fly decoupled... seriously...
It's true I forgot about this. Old speeds were faster than the lasers!
@@BuzzCutPsycho One of the craziest things I realized is because the playing field is scaled to 1/6 the 300ms ish speed limit translates roughly to 4,000 mph. I discovered that when people were complaining "how is my space ship slower than a f15!" Well... it's not! lol.
At least you can play somewhat normally, I've had nothing buy UI issues with terminals and interactables in the game world that keep me from playing. Literally stuck with underpants as I did manage to put the gown away and eventually bought some gear... but putting it on is a completely different story.
Lol I wouldn't say I play normally. I ram people with a Hammerhead for a reason
Master Modes vs Unified Flight Model. Honestly I am split, I think a good bit of the community is really.
A1 made a video that you pointed out, and I think both you and him have valid points.
For example, the fights are closer yes, I like that we can fly in groups now, use cover, and in a way its more like the original legacy flight model in may ways.
MM as a foundation is pretty good, but it needs allot of tuning for it to be as fun as the unified flight model.
That being said, I don't really understand this constant bashing of the PvP community, if people put in the effort to get good at the game, they should be good and be able to 1v7 etc. You constantly say; that there is about 200 of these pro players, so all in all, the chance you encounter them in the PU is very small, i.e their impact on the game is low.
Now we can argue that they made people go away from AC, but AC has its own fair share of issues; we have no ranked mode to match people so that they its more even battles.
Tri-Cording and the 45 were valid tactics, the fact that CIG provides us no tutorials whatsoever, no in-game tutorial, no ingame video tutorials, no in game written tutorials is not the player bases fault but CIG's.
As A1 said, who is CIG to say how many players one can kill, who is anyone to make such calls, of setting an "threshold" of how many players one should defeat? Is this something we really want people to decide for us?
A1 also makes a valid point that yes, we have more people playing now, but this is natural because everyone wants to know how this flight model is, test it out, give it a chance, so only with time, will we be truely be able to see if MM is actually successful or not.
Now the Unified Flight model had its own fair share of issues, most predominantly back strafing & jousting.
The jousting issue mostly happened due to inexperience, just poor throttle control from rookie players still learning pvp.
The back strafing on the other hand really was just not fun, but this could have been fixed by nerfing the forward thrusters. Tri-Cording in itself was not so much an issue, as it was a good move, but the problem was that it messed with the PiP and this created an exploit by making shots miss. Again this is on CIG to fix this issue.
We also have to raise the point of how weird MM feels, it really feels like facing Air Drag in Space with the automatic de acceleration. I think this issue could be solved by just not having the de acceleration in there at all. 250 standard speed, up to 500 when boosted and it remains that speed, but if you de accelerate yourself it goes back to 250 again until you boost another direction. Or just remove the boost speed cap and keep speeds top 500ish. Or 300ish but have the boost just there to accelerate faster and not go past the 300ish speed cap.
Anyways good video and many valid points as well, I think MM can be improved greatly. And lol at the endless rams.
This is a really good comment. This video was actually not a response to A1, the next one is, but I recorded it earlier. I am pretty dead set in my ways and he is in his. But I just seek to offer the "other side" and not really convince anyone. Minds are always made up.
@@BuzzCutPsycho
Fair enough, I certainly see where you are coming from. I am probably among the few that sees merits in both MM and the Unified Flight Model we had before. I joined SC when we had the Unified Flight Model, and I would be lying to you if I didn't tell you that I do miss it, even if it had some serious fundamental flaws.
But I also watched how SC used to be when AC first came out, so MM is allot closer to how SC was back when Arena Commander first came out after the Hanger Module, so its closer to its starting roots, which is kinda cool in its own right.
I would really like to have the best of both worlds, the fluidity of the Unified Flight Model and the close combat formations of Master Modes. Let the 45 & Tricord be a thing, but maybe reduce the impact of it. Tri-Cording and the 45 were very natural movements if we have more than just a rear thruster, but the PiP targeting system would have to be tweaked to calculate for those movements. Keep speeds low, but accelerations high and no strange space air drags.
And most importantly of all, removal of gimbals, or auto aim in general, or have a serious negatives for using auto aim, such as fire rate penalties like when in precision mode.
This would make single seat fighters very competitive and rewarding, as raise the skill ceiling, however muticrew ships, when fully crewed should generally have the edge over a single seat fighter.
2 Single Seat Fighters should not equal to one 2 Seater,
A 2 manned ship, like the Hurricane or Cutlass should be worth for example 3 Gladius'
So that they become viable choices. Limit auto-aim gimbles perhaps to turrets. Just a few ideas.
Looking forward to your new video, would be cool if you guys had a talk together.