Once in a while we need some absolutely irredeemable villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis, because while I do like the more complex morally grey villains I think having villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis every now and then is a good change of pace
I prefer the older villains for this reason . I grew up with the Really Bad Teams . I'm a Generation 2 kid and I loved fighting the bad guys but now it feels like abit of a joke
But wasnt Giratina, who was being controlled by Volo, the one who opened the space time distortions? And the lightning that was causing the nobles to go into frenzies was coming from out of those rifts. Many of the events happened in legends arceus was because of Giratina and Volo. Giratina sought revenge against Arceus for banishing it to the Distortion World. But in the process, Giratina and Volo were doing opening these rifts in search of Arceus. Causing pokemon to become frenzied, causing space time distortions all across hisui, and even causing us, the player character, to enter into the land of hisui from our world. It was all Volo’s fault the entire time. But it’s easy to miss because the build up to it was lackluster. Same problem Rose had.
16:10 yeah i dont think thats right, i can see what your getting at but they are definitely still darker moments in Pokémon. literally you were told that the professor died in scarlet and violet, like i feel like that pretty dark to me, but hey that might just be me. Also i feel like its more of what the story is going through is the reason why those villains aren't very villainy.
The biggest issue is what MAKES a great pokemon villain? Gen 1 and 2 is just the mafia, gen 3 is eco terrorists, gen 4, 5, and 6 are ego terrorists, gen 7 is about a woman's corrupted desires, gen 8 was a business man with little common sense, and finally gen 9 was about a professor's ambitions taken too far. What would be considered deeply confrontational to the player character now? Since we've had world ending situations already, what could top that?
Not just better villians, better rivals too! 1 rival who picks what you're strong against ifc, but another who picks the last starter whos stronger than you. A rival who was smug, always 1 step ahead of you and even became champion first. As a kid, I read the gym statues and ofc in gen 1 gary was always ahead. Made me want to beat him. If that wasn't enough he told me "smell ya later" after I beat him. Didn't even let me win happy so when you finally beat them, it's so satisfying. Silver was similar but instead you see them change to be nicer and grow. No more pushover rivals, make me want to beat them! Scarlett and violet was closer but still not entirely there.
I throw out some ideas of things i was guessing would happen on a different video but what if at some point we get a game where the E4 and champion are the actual villains and you and your friend group is the ones who stop them giving more drive to that archetype of character cause while the last few gens the friends have done something it feels like they could be doing more
Soul, I mess with your content, but you’re wrong about legends Arceus not having a villain Volvo is the prime reason why we got kicked out the village in the first place and Volvo was able to get the plates!!! Vodo is the sole reason why the commander was moving walkie. He is the underlining problem of the main story !!!!! 🧐
I mean, thats fine and dandy, I just wish they were more upfront about that in the *main* story as opposed to keeping him as a boss in Post-Game, the credits already roll by the time we even have the option to progress that story and learn that stuff 😭😭
He’s also literally the reason for all the crazy shit happening around Hisui. The noble Pokemon became frenzied because volo woke up giratina. He created the space time rift problems when he began meddling with giratina and the other legends. The protagonist is handpicked by arceus to defeat volo.
@@SoulStoryMode but that wouldn’t make sense because the point of him was to make seem more like a companion and less of an opp…. but if you look closely on how he was talking to you, when you found certain shit, you already knew he was the villain. Sub Text is key my friend…
Kamado COULD be considered the villain in Legends Arceus, because after the ban from the village, the scene with the Shinx happen and there's a heavy emphasys on family and union to survive. But even that didn't lasted long because we get shelter inmediately. I didn't feel NOTHING for Volo... he revealed himself and I was like... "dude... that hair alone is enough for Arceus to reject you"... but with Kamado, i DID FEEL SOMETHING, I knew he had some reason even if he was reckless, and even after that Mesprit asks you how you felt. It was personal. Even when I demolished his team it was personal. Honest. Pokemon doesn't work very well with an open world so far, because in a linear narrative you can increase the stakes as the player goes through the path assigned. But in an open world you have to think "shit, what if the player doesn't go this way?" And you have to reduce the scope of urgency. I want a villain so much too, someone that I just see and I go "FUCK HE'S BACK". But at this point I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic 😅
Its because they're making the games to placate really young, immature kids and persons who freak out at the slightest amount of "violence" and thus have significantly watered down the quality of the franchise in terms of edge, stakes, and difficulty. Its also the reason rom hacks and nuzzlocks have taken off as they tend to give the real hard core pokemanic fans at least some of what they yearn for and deserve. [a] A villianess on an out of the way island with control over a rare type of metal. Her pokeballs make pokemon brainwashed, loyal, emotionless machines that will be forced to learn Steel moves if they are not Steel type already. Releases, giant pokebots to take over the region and seek vengeance on "someone". [b] Evil teams that the ability to make their own exclusive TM's [c] Bullies and their enabling, manipulative, psycho, principal who wants to push the region to "accept" their way of doing things and even has key NPC under their thumb. [d] Artificial pokemon from space takes over astronaut/scientist/unassuming business man and pushes to brainwash and assimilate. [c] Religous sect that wants to force everyone to accept their light; and all people and pokemon that do not match their aesthetic will be imprisoned or purged.
Im personally fine with the villains, i got a lot more invested in scarlet and violet and the evil team/final boss was that, i can understand why your not the biggest fan of them, but hey we just have opinions that we should respect each others opinions
Yeah, in Violet, I was at first trying to figure out what Team Star even wanted, then when it's revealed that they're just, hiding from their bullies, I was like, wait am I the villain? It's such a backwards story idea. And then team yell was just enthusiastic fans. Literally, Marnie tells them to stop messing with us and they just ... do. Like, it was so pointless. Plus with Rose, all of the story happened off screen. I remember a moment, we come out of a cave, and then you get news of Pokemon dynamaxing outside of a stadium. I was like, finally some action! And then they're just like, you shouldn't deal with this. You continue your gym challenge while we handle the story.
This drove me up the wall. I was so infuriated when we couldn't enjoy the actual danger of the game and was just told "eh we'll handle it. Go away" smh
15:05 you do have point but the way i take pokemon has it has its own sepret story and the villains/antagonist/evil group has their own level of villainy that can be taken on
I do like team star, one of the reasons is that i believe their scary in a different way, and that is a more realistic way, which reading and watching deeper down the lore of team star genuinely shocked me that game freak did this, not because its this big oh my god this evil team is going to take over everything, but because its the opposite, they are relatable, in an almost terrifying way and the reason why they became that was gut wrenching, but if you dont like them or dont see them the same way, i respect your opinion
I was a child all the way back when generation 2 came out and Team Rocket 🚀 did nothing to make me want to bully anyone if anything it told me to protect others i love and are fond of .
True, the villain teams add the only bit of story for Pokémon games since without it, it's just the same "Become the Champion" shtick over and over again.
I’m gonna tell you the truth here first is about chairman Rose He’s a realistic villain. He’s an evil politician who does what he wants no matter the consequence that’s what they were going for buddy. And volo was literally the reason legend, Arceus happened that portal he ripped open is what made the Pokémon go crazy and brought you there just in case you didn’t know that
Lockey i know this is about modern ones but hot take the only reason team plasma were able to go has far has they did was because of plot armor. It makes zero sense the elite four or chapions didn't arrest those guys sooner.
I think we should have an evil group. Not apart of the main game. Give them their own main side story. The more they seperate stuff the better. I jis like know we go through story and side quest. And theres a whole evil group somewhere doin them. Dont do like the first pokemon games where they were apart of completing the main game. They could even be post game stuff to make it feel like its more to do after the main stuff is done. SV couldve given us a 3rd dlc thats all about a evil team. It doesnt have to connect to anything in yhe region other than they founds some crystals that theyve been using to take control of stuff. Maybe make pokeballs using the crystal that can steal pokemon from trainers and have them takin strong pokemon for some greater plan or something its alot of straight evil stuff we can see in pokemon. They went soft
I miss the proper Villain outfit. Team Star was great but functionally they weren't a proper Villain team. Macro Cosmos comes out of nowhere and is unfinished. Team Yell is punk cheer squad, not evil not serious. Team Skull was fine, not my cup of tea but just Hooligans. Team aether had 2 crazy leaders that is it. Flare was the last true villain team, a more heroic Team Galactic
i agree rose is one of worst villain in pokemon history even anime aka journeys/olm just try to flat out ignore sword and shield plot this why only did about 4 episodes of story in the journeys anime just forget about it yeah that's why i don t blame thing olm behind the scenes was mess like most anime studios nowadays
they are too weak lol they should make em stronger like they did in legends Arceus but they dont have to bring back he battle gimmick of fast and strong mode and also gym leaders should not be interly based around one type and should have mutiple types on a team to be actually difficult or a challenge they should also use the generational gimmick to the limit or their best abilitie for example in scarlet and violet if the ace pokemon of a gym leader is a grass type weak to a fire type it should terastilize to a water type to resist the fire type to exponentially ramp the difficulty.
7:01 Tell that to Climate Alarmists..... This is the ONE angle for Chairman Rose that I actually give the writers, they could've made him a good allegory towards this real-life issue.
I personally can’t agree with all your points. I mean if your looking for a thanos or Sephorath type villain in Pokémon N and Lysander exist. I mean N was isolated his whole, thought what he was doing was right and even acknowledge that there are people that misuse pokemon which is a fact. The only thing is you the player are able to help him see the light to change. And Lysander said before he sets up the weapon Every Pokémon will die when this weapon goes off but it’s worth it to maintain the worlds beauty, Lysander problem was that him and his team weren’t written that well. Plus I feel you have to look at from a developer perspective sure for use the players we haven’t had a full evil team sense gen 6 or 7. But the developers have been making nothing but that for 6 or 7 generations. It’s not surprising that they would want to change it up, especially they know older players play the games. Like LA is not a Man vs Man story it’s a Man vs Nature story. You the player vs a Natural disaster that does not seem influenced by an evil force. And Volo not being obvious makes his betrayal more impactful as I feel he’s the first twist villain atleast in the modern games to feel like a twist it makes him memorable instead of just a Cynthia/Cyrus fusion. Then gen 9 is all about freedom and exploring if there was an obvious villain it would make them fight them feel more like an obligation disrupting your journey taking away that choose your own path style they wanted hence why team star are not world ending threats. And the AI is a threat out of force not their own choice which is actually quite sad for them. Sure they may not be traditional villains but I don’t think that’s a bad thing as pokemon doesn’t always need it to make a good story or give the heroes a satisfying ending. And while I respect your points and would love another Giovanni or Ghetsis. I can’t agree having them would automatically make it better, or the newer stories are worse for not having them. Except for Sw/Sh that stories pretty garbage.
Once in a while we need some absolutely irredeemable villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis, because while I do like the more complex morally grey villains I think having villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis every now and then is a good change of pace
I prefer the older villains for this reason .
I grew up with the Really Bad Teams .
I'm a Generation 2 kid and I loved fighting the bad guys but now it feels like abit of a joke
You are not so smart
But wasnt Giratina, who was being controlled by Volo, the one who opened the space time distortions? And the lightning that was causing the nobles to go into frenzies was coming from out of those rifts. Many of the events happened in legends arceus was because of Giratina and Volo. Giratina sought revenge against Arceus for banishing it to the Distortion World. But in the process, Giratina and Volo were doing opening these rifts in search of Arceus. Causing pokemon to become frenzied, causing space time distortions all across hisui, and even causing us, the player character, to enter into the land of hisui from our world. It was all Volo’s fault the entire time. But it’s easy to miss because the build up to it was lackluster. Same problem Rose had.
20:35 Isn't that just Masuda with the Dex cut back in Gen 8? 🤣
16:10 yeah i dont think thats right, i can see what your getting at but they are definitely still darker moments in Pokémon. literally you were told that the professor died in scarlet and violet, like i feel like that pretty dark to me, but hey that might just be me. Also i feel like its more of what the story is going through is the reason why those villains aren't very villainy.
The biggest issue is what MAKES a great pokemon villain? Gen 1 and 2 is just the mafia, gen 3 is eco terrorists, gen 4, 5, and 6 are ego terrorists, gen 7 is about a woman's corrupted desires, gen 8 was a business man with little common sense, and finally gen 9 was about a professor's ambitions taken too far.
What would be considered deeply confrontational to the player character now? Since we've had world ending situations already, what could top that?
Not just better villians, better rivals too!
1 rival who picks what you're strong against ifc, but another who picks the last starter whos stronger than you.
A rival who was smug, always 1 step ahead of you and even became champion first. As a kid, I read the gym statues and ofc in gen 1 gary was always ahead. Made me want to beat him.
If that wasn't enough he told me "smell ya later" after I beat him. Didn't even let me win happy so when you finally beat them, it's so satisfying. Silver was similar but instead you see them change to be nicer and grow.
No more pushover rivals, make me want to beat them! Scarlett and violet was closer but still not entirely there.
I throw out some ideas of things i was guessing would happen on a different video but what if at some point we get a game where the E4 and champion are the actual villains and you and your friend group is the ones who stop them giving more drive to that archetype of character cause while the last few gens the friends have done something it feels like they could be doing more
But villains aren’t nice guys!
Soul, I mess with your content, but you’re wrong about legends Arceus not having a villain Volvo is the prime reason why we got kicked out the village in the first place and Volvo was able to get the plates!!! Vodo is the sole reason why the commander was moving walkie.
He is the underlining problem of the main story !!!!! 🧐
I mean, thats fine and dandy, I just wish they were more upfront about that in the *main* story as opposed to keeping him as a boss in Post-Game, the credits already roll by the time we even have the option to progress that story and learn that stuff 😭😭
He’s also literally the reason for all the crazy shit happening around Hisui. The noble Pokemon became frenzied because volo woke up giratina. He created the space time rift problems when he began meddling with giratina and the other legends. The protagonist is handpicked by arceus to defeat volo.
@@SoulStoryMode but that wouldn’t make sense because the point of him was to make seem more like a companion and less of an opp…. but if you look closely on how he was talking to you, when you found certain shit, you already knew he was the villain.
Sub Text is key my friend…
@@CesarR1037 exactly!!!’
Kamado COULD be considered the villain in Legends Arceus, because after the ban from the village, the scene with the Shinx happen and there's a heavy emphasys on family and union to survive. But even that didn't lasted long because we get shelter inmediately.
I didn't feel NOTHING for Volo... he revealed himself and I was like... "dude... that hair alone is enough for Arceus to reject you"... but with Kamado, i DID FEEL SOMETHING, I knew he had some reason even if he was reckless, and even after that Mesprit asks you how you felt. It was personal. Even when I demolished his team it was personal.
Honest. Pokemon doesn't work very well with an open world so far, because in a linear narrative you can increase the stakes as the player goes through the path assigned. But in an open world you have to think "shit, what if the player doesn't go this way?" And you have to reduce the scope of urgency.
I want a villain so much too, someone that I just see and I go "FUCK HE'S BACK". But at this point I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic 😅
I glanced at the thumbnail, and I swear it said, “We need Aliens” 😅😂
Well, that’d definitely shake things up a tad 😭
Deoxys, Starmie, Staryu, Cleffa evo line, lunatone, solrock...
Its because they're making the games to placate really young, immature kids and persons who freak out at the slightest amount of "violence" and thus have significantly watered down the quality of the franchise in terms of edge, stakes, and difficulty. Its also the reason rom hacks and nuzzlocks have taken off as they tend to give the real hard core pokemanic fans at least some of what they yearn for and deserve.
[a] A villianess on an out of the way island with control over a rare type of metal. Her pokeballs make pokemon brainwashed, loyal, emotionless machines that will be forced to learn Steel moves if they are not Steel type already. Releases, giant pokebots to take over the region and seek vengeance on "someone".
[b] Evil teams that the ability to make their own exclusive TM's
[c] Bullies and their enabling, manipulative, psycho, principal who wants to push the region to "accept" their way of doing things and even has key NPC under their thumb.
[d] Artificial pokemon from space takes over astronaut/scientist/unassuming business man and pushes to brainwash and assimilate.
[c] Religous sect that wants to force everyone to accept their light; and all people and pokemon that do not match their aesthetic will be imprisoned or purged.
Im personally fine with the villains, i got a lot more invested in scarlet and violet and the evil team/final boss was that, i can understand why your not the biggest fan of them, but hey we just have opinions that we should respect each others opinions
The reason why i was mainly talking about scarlet and violet is because Pokémon scarlet is my favorite Pokémon game(hot take i know)
Yeah, in Violet, I was at first trying to figure out what Team Star even wanted, then when it's revealed that they're just, hiding from their bullies, I was like, wait am I the villain? It's such a backwards story idea. And then team yell was just enthusiastic fans. Literally, Marnie tells them to stop messing with us and they just ... do. Like, it was so pointless. Plus with Rose, all of the story happened off screen. I remember a moment, we come out of a cave, and then you get news of Pokemon dynamaxing outside of a stadium. I was like, finally some action! And then they're just like, you shouldn't deal with this. You continue your gym challenge while we handle the story.
This drove me up the wall. I was so infuriated when we couldn't enjoy the actual danger of the game and was just told "eh we'll handle it. Go away" smh
15:05 you do have point but the way i take pokemon has it has its own sepret story and the villains/antagonist/evil group has their own level of villainy that can be taken on
I do like team star, one of the reasons is that i believe their scary in a different way, and that is a more realistic way, which reading and watching deeper down the lore of team star genuinely shocked me that game freak did this, not because its this big oh my god this evil team is going to take over everything, but because its the opposite, they are relatable, in an almost terrifying way and the reason why they became that was gut wrenching, but if you dont like them or dont see them the same way, i respect your opinion
We've been getting tons of antagonists.... but not very many villains.
Team Star, and Chairman Rose were antagonists... but they weren't villains.
I was a child all the way back when generation 2 came out and Team Rocket 🚀 did nothing to make me want to bully anyone if anything it told me to protect others i love and are fond of .
True, the villain teams add the only bit of story for Pokémon games since without it, it's just the same "Become the Champion" shtick over and over again.
I’m gonna tell you the truth here first is about chairman Rose
He’s a realistic villain. He’s an evil politician who does what he wants no matter the consequence that’s what they were going for buddy.
And volo was literally the reason legend, Arceus happened that portal he ripped open is what made the Pokémon go crazy and brought you there just in case you didn’t know that
We'd need better games before villains like they can't even get the making a enjoyable experience right let alone a good story
Lockey i know this is about modern ones but hot take the only reason team plasma were able to go has far has they did was because of plot armor. It makes zero sense the elite four or chapions didn't arrest those guys sooner.
As far as threatening villain teams go, it all went downhill after Gen 7 (excluding Macro Cosmos TO AN EXTENT)
I think we should have an evil group. Not apart of the main game. Give them their own main side story. The more they seperate stuff the better. I jis like know we go through story and side quest. And theres a whole evil group somewhere doin them. Dont do like the first pokemon games where they were apart of completing the main game. They could even be post game stuff to make it feel like its more to do after the main stuff is done. SV couldve given us a 3rd dlc thats all about a evil team. It doesnt have to connect to anything in yhe region other than they founds some crystals that theyve been using to take control of stuff. Maybe make pokeballs using the crystal that can steal pokemon from trainers and have them takin strong pokemon for some greater plan or something its alot of straight evil stuff we can see in pokemon. They went soft
Pokemon has the same problem as most Disney movies nowadays, there are no clear villains or villainy. Just miscreants that annoy you.
I miss the proper Villain outfit.
Team Star was great but functionally they weren't a proper Villain team.
Macro Cosmos comes out of nowhere and is unfinished.
Team Yell is punk cheer squad, not evil not serious.
Team Skull was fine, not my cup of tea but just Hooligans.
Team aether had 2 crazy leaders that is it.
Flare was the last true villain team, a more heroic Team Galactic
I don't think every game needs a villain. I would rather take a well made villain every once in a while over forced badly written villains every game.
i agree rose is one of worst villain in pokemon history even anime aka journeys/olm just try to flat out ignore sword and shield plot this why only did about 4 episodes of story in the journeys anime just forget about it yeah that's why i don t blame thing olm behind the scenes was mess like most anime studios nowadays
Dang Good Video ! Even Super Mystery Dungeon had really good villain, better then Gen 8 and 9 lol.
they are too weak lol they should make em stronger like they did in legends Arceus but they dont have to bring back he battle gimmick of fast and strong mode and also gym leaders should not be interly based around one type and should have mutiple types on a team to be actually difficult or a challenge they should also use the generational gimmick to the limit or their best abilitie for example in scarlet and violet if the ace pokemon of a gym leader is a grass type weak to a fire type it should terastilize to a water type to resist the fire type to exponentially ramp the difficulty.
7:01 Tell that to Climate Alarmists..... This is the ONE angle for Chairman Rose that I actually give the writers, they could've made him a good allegory towards this real-life issue.
I personally can’t agree with all your points. I mean if your looking for a thanos or Sephorath type villain in Pokémon N and Lysander exist. I mean N was isolated his whole, thought what he was doing was right and even acknowledge that there are people that misuse pokemon which is a fact. The only thing is you the player are able to help him see the light to change. And Lysander said before he sets up the weapon Every Pokémon will die when this weapon goes off but it’s worth it to maintain the worlds beauty, Lysander problem was that him and his team weren’t written that well.
Plus I feel you have to look at from a developer perspective sure for use the players we haven’t had a full evil team sense gen 6 or 7. But the developers have been making nothing but that for 6 or 7 generations. It’s not surprising that they would want to change it up, especially they know older players play the games. Like LA is not a Man vs Man story it’s a Man vs Nature story. You the player vs a Natural disaster that does not seem influenced by an evil force. And Volo not being obvious makes his betrayal more impactful as I feel he’s the first twist villain atleast in the modern games to feel like a twist it makes him memorable instead of just a Cynthia/Cyrus fusion.
Then gen 9 is all about freedom and exploring if there was an obvious villain it would make them fight them feel more like an obligation disrupting your journey taking away that choose your own path style they wanted hence why team star are not world ending threats. And the AI is a threat out of force not their own choice which is actually quite sad for them. Sure they may not be traditional villains but I don’t think that’s a bad thing as pokemon doesn’t always need it to make a good story or give the heroes a satisfying ending.
And while I respect your points and would love another Giovanni or Ghetsis. I can’t agree having them would automatically make it better, or the newer stories are worse for not having them. Except for Sw/Sh that stories pretty garbage.
We haven't had world threatening villains since Generation 6. I wonder if we'll ever have something like that again.
Just make a podcast about pokemon
NO MORE DEX CUT IN ALL THE FUTURE POKEMON GAMES!
I want a really dark pokrmon game
People getting killed type of dark
@@karenroslund5507 well in gen 9 the professor got killed
@@richardhut1742 right I forgot
Too long
Get to the point😮
Tiktok brainrot be like:
@manueljaramillo2520 I've never touched tiktok... weak take lol
5 year old ahh attention span.
@Zakatakamime He's wasting our time lol Fact
@@MojaveKnight17you have the attention span of a house fly