SpaceX's Launch Pad Problem
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 гру 2020
- SpaceX has a launch pad problem. Over the last 2 years, SpaceX have been rapidly developing their Starship rocket. They have overcome design challenges at an incredible rate, but one of the most challenging aspects of Starship isn’t the rocket itself ... it's the launch pad. This video looks at why SpaceX have had trouble with their launch pads and how their design will be different from traditional launch pads.
Thanks to the following channels for their awesome footage!
NASASpaceflight/BocaChicaGal / nasaspaceflight
LabPadre / labpadre
RGVAerialPhotography / rgvaerial
Tommy J. Saenz / @tommyjsaenz
HASSELL / hassellstudio
Austin Barnard / austinbarnard
Hazegrayart / @hazegrayart
Thanks for watching this Primal Space video. If you enjoyed it, let me know in the comments below and don't forget to subscribe so you can see more videos like this!
Support Primal Space by becoming a Patron!
/ primalspace
Twitter: / theprimalspace
Facebook: / theprimalspace
Music used in this video:
» Infinite Perspective - Kevin MacLeod
» Stuck In The Air - The Tower Of Light
» Sunset Trails - DJ Williams
» Marianas - Quincas Moreira
» Key To Your Heart - The Mini Vandals
» Court And Page - Silent Partner
Credits:
Written and edited by Ewan Cunningham ( / ewan_cee )
Narrated by: Beau Stucki
#SpaceX #Starship #ElonMusk - Наука та технологія
What are the chances that SN9 sticks the landing? - Shoutout to Blinkist for supporting this video - you can try it out for free and support the channel by signing up using the Primal Space link! www.blinkist.com/primalspace
bruh
Comment: “1 day ago”...
It’s because the video was unlisted
95 percent
Hmm
"There are no failed experiments. There is only new data."
SpaceX is raking in the data like no one ever before.
Providing that your new data is not burnt during a failed experiment.
Massimo O'Kissed you say that as if wireless communications don’t exist
@@quinnreierson , it has to be possible for your experiment to fail in a spectacular fireball right on top of your wireless data collection centre.
@@massimookissed1023 false clearly you have no clue
@@KeepItReal2024 , clearly you have no imagination.
I sense you didn't 'get' LEGO as a child.
Incredible. Of all the spacex starship discussions, this is my favorite. Very insightful. Keep it coming.
W
Thanks for this vid. This is one of the many parts of rocket science that aren't really talked about in the usual channels, one is always hearing about the new developments in rocket design (which don't get me wrong, it's amazing to see grain silos with wings fly) but it's also really cool to see the "behind the scenes" stuff in a way
you really have to applaud these engineers.
They do always see their failures ahead of time... For whatever thats worth if you never fix them ahead of time.
@John Doe and still someone is to blame for a very serious and too easily overlooked failure
right now their biggest problems are:
1: Landing Legs
2: Launch Pad
3: Header Tank Pressure :D
Lol. GO SN9!!!
And that all sounds like minor issues compared to what they've already accomplished. Fascinating and impressive.
@@Jens.Krabbe elon said that landing legs is very difficult. but idk.
No not at all. Header tank issue is fixed, requiring minimal or no hardware upgrade, launch pads not really either, they just keep doing static fires and launches and reinforce the areas that get damaged. They start with the lowest mass possible and add what is necessary. The biggest problems in order of importance are:
1) The heat shield, especially the attachment to a flexing hull (hot and cold cause it to expand and shrink) and the gaps between the wings and the hull
2) Mastering orbital refueling, the entire mission except deliveries to Earth orbit hangs on this. They do have good potential solutions but nothing demonstrated so far
3) The actual entry, descent and landing at Mars, this will take a few attempts. Try to land, see what happens, fix (mostly software) much like on Earth
4) Propellant production on Mars, set up mostly autonomously. Making enough propellant to fully fuel just one Starship to return to Earth will be a massive undertaking requiring something like a km² of solar arrays
5) Building the crew variant with all the systems associated including life support, entertainment, radiation shelters etc...
6) Make Starlink profitable, because that will pay for everything else. But good progress on that front too.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l i think you overlooked someting mate. i said "right now"
This has been a real eye-opener, one would assume its the rocket fault directly and never about the launchpad.
This IS a rocket fault for completely exposing its sophisticated engines to products of their own exhaust.
This is literally a test pad, the orbital launch pad is being built like 100m away. This won't be a problem for very long.
@@robertlatta2019 The orbital launch pad being built is for Super Heavy, which is expected to have 28 sea level Raptor engines. That's almost 10 times as many as Starship, so the lack of flame diverter is still a real risk. Also they plan to eventually launch Starship from Mars, on nothing but landing legs which definitely won't be as high as the test stand.
@@kurtblackwell7752 maybe they will have to send a payload to Mars to form a hard landing site. Some chemical to bond the surface somehow?
It's kinda sad that Falcon 9 is getting "old" but it's the way forward with a new vehicle!
Falcon 9 is that good, that it brings alot of money for spaceX, for starship engineering
Sry for my english
I think Falcon 9 is the next Soyuz in terms of longevity.
Sad because a chunk of metal is getting old?
It is always a pleasure to see your videos, well summarized and explained, thank you very much.
2:22 i was surprised and thought spacex released some video. artists impression looks great!
When the rocket progressed so fast that infrastructures can't keep up with the developments.
It's the rocket's design that needs to be changed to prevent this actually
@@coonjamalay not really. It’s just interactive development of the infastructure
@@colesmith6874 considering that it will be worse on mars...they have to change the design at the engines for the starship
@@coonjamalay well yes, but that isn’t a rocket design change, it’s a different version of the rocket for Mars. They know this of course, so they will have that already planned out
@@colesmith6874 "that isn't a rocket design change, it's a different design of the rocket for Mars." oxymoron there/
A lot of points I've never even thought about and nobody else seems to be talking about. Great video, thanks!
I was thinking about this a lot lately, great video!
Excellent video! Pointing out the overlooked need to harden the rocket to launch/landing debris.
@3:14 "there are no landing pads on the moon or Mars"... exactly.
Yet
@@zakk2936 The first crew will be a little nervous for sure.
That is an issue, but Mars has less than half of Earth's surface gravity, and the Moon has less than 1/6th of Earth's gravity. You don't need as much thrust to get off of the surface, so you can run your engines a little slower and generate less debris. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with it.
@@SerialSnowmanKiller With less gravity and little to no atmosphere debris will accelerate faster also I think.
@A D Easier to design a spaceship that can land without a pad. Why not put the engines midway up. Have a longer tube and some hardy landing legs. And have a redirection flap on the bottom for take offs that redirect the rocket boosts 45° instead of straight. And once airborn the flaps close for straight down boost.
Ive seen a youtube vid of usa jets vs russian jet design. The US jets need clean runways for takeoffs so people have to go out and clean the runway of debrie by hand. Where as the russian migs have a flap on the front intake for take off so they dont need clean runways for take off. A similar design might work.
Great video on an over looked subject. Thank you!
Very intelligently and thoughtfully produced video. One of the only videos to correctly describe current Starship development as part of a test program rather than referring to the vehicles as prototypes as many SpaceX related UA-cam channels do.
Sucha Greatttttt Video.. Love the Topic, never seen avideo bout this topic before.. Love the voice,love the meme in between..
Wow, a very informative video! That makes so much sense
Yay you're back
this was super well put together, thanks!
1:42 great shot. Some great perspective of the SIZE of this starship. Look at those people! Imagine how many you could fit on that thing!!
Please be regular on your uploads
Your videos are really got
very good video, you usually don't think about launch/landing problems on the ground
This video does a very great job introducing the very real issues that engineers must deal with when designing these rockets. That was something that done very well in the era of NASA's space shuttles. It takes a society to develop these ships, and it requires better communication of the high level problems and decisions that need to be made for better and faster advancement of these programs.
Thank you Primal Space for keeping it real and reporting on more aspects of the engineering process than just focusing on rocket body concepts that most other media does.
Great Video! There were so many things I didn’t know! Like, how they use the water to divert the sound of the engines and how the engine use so much force that it’s actually supersonic at ground level! Holy Crap!
Great video! Love how you explain it
Outstanding job
This is only an hour and a half away. I’m so much more excited now that I can actually see them
Excellent presentation with a great voice.
Excellent video. Well done, Primal.
Very informative, from a different angle.
That was very interesting. I never though about the landing pad and how challenging it could be.
Very informative. Thanks.
Man,your voice is amazing.....
Corpse is jealous
Love this chanel.
Very informative!
You should have mentioned that the final iteration of launchpads will be off the coast for fully stacked starships and booster combos. Only suborbital (if that) starship launches will be happening from land.
Awesome video. Very well done!
2:50 good use of the music
what a cultured man
Awesome video🔥🔥
Great content! 💪❤️
Man I love this channel!
Good article. Thanks.
This was a very enlightening presentation. Now I finally understand what is going on with the rapid Starship prototyping. Thanks. Oh...by the way, very good sales technique as well.
Great analysis of a problem I didn’t consider. My suggestion would be to encase all engine in a protective shield allowing only the opening of the engine bells to be exposed. It could be called the engine chamber. This engine chamber would be anchored to a pivot front/back and side to side to allow gimbaling. Or even simpler, just add a stainless steel barrier that would close the underside of engine bay and cut out holes for the engine bells. No engine gimbaling needed, all that is needed for rocket orientation is engines throttling.
Nicely done
Common sense and concise video - thank you.
great job! thx
The skirting will be hardened and there will be some form of protective covers for the engine. Where we are going, there are no -roads- landing pads
very insightful!
"2020 is almost over"
Me: thank fuck it is
allright big mike?
does baraketta still let you take him up the shitter?
asking for a friend..
Hey it's 2021 now, well at least for me
Bonjour. Super vidéo 👍 et surtout c'est la première fois que je vois un créateur de contenu sur UA-cam être aussi pertinent, intelligent et très réaliste dans sa démonstration et sa logique. Félicitations à toi 👏. Ça change de tous les idiots qui s'émerveillent devant les vidéos qui (c'est vrai) en mettent plein le vue, sans pour autant prendre le temps de réfléchir ...
That was AWSOME
Great video, I subscribed. Regarding trying new programs, if they’d not require a credit card for the free trial I’d try it. But you always end up having to contact them to stop or clear the coming charges. Just my opinion.
This looks exciting.
Both -40f AND c?! Neat! Jokes aside, you kept me interested. One other thing though about the martite, they first used none during early tests. They had to add martite sheets to protect the already damaged concrete.
You're not going to have a diverter on the moon or mars, so this has to be dealt with via onboard engineering.
Makes a lot of sense!
That's makes sense
Starship may need to be able to land and take off from unprepared surfaces but the superheavy booster does not, as it is restricted to take off and landing on Earth. And it will have a much bigger problem with heat thrust and noise as it is so much more powerful, so some form of sound suppression and flame diversion would seem to be required to launch the complete Starship stack.
Great info, yes
TfW the massive problem now is not the rocket but the landing and subsequently relaunching site...
Thanks for filling in a small detail many forgot to address
Great video, thumbs up.
An excellent grown up video, thanks. 🇬🇧🚀🎄
The differences in gravity and atmosphere on the other bodies will impart drastically different effects on landings and launches.
Solution: Gary steel in Richmond supplied the steel plates 14 inches thick for the Golden Gate bridge.
They have a sample letter "G" holding open the front door in the summer. They transported the plates by putting them on the deck of a ship to get them over to the bridge site. It would take a long time to heat up a steel plate that thick. I personally worked on a stainless steel plate 10 feet in diameter that was 1 inch thick a Utilicon in Forestville Ca. Just some food for thought.
this was a well done presentation of a serious problem- I suppose Starship initially might bring it's launchpad as a lander-module, attached after orbital refueling operation- which might at least provide a measure of predictability for a safe return
You have a really great point, this needs to land anywhere and takeoff from anywhere without damaging the rocket. maybe they need much bigger legs and more protective shells. or maybe it should land horizontally with bigger legs and have four engines on each side and take up horizontally and then it should go vertical using the bottom engines.
The problem is that the heat and pressure will destroy the legs
Mentioned previously: send or deploy a rolled up debris deflecting landing pad to Mars. To over-simplify: As rocket approaches Mars, a rolled up carpet landing pad; made of graphene and some metal hardware cloth, is deployed to settle on the surface of Mars. Then deploy a trampoline type structure on top of the pad. Then land on that. The trampoline offers some landing resistance but not enough to bounce the rocket. Or maybe; the first pad self inflates to be the debris deflector and the landing cushion. Draco thrusters would really help.
The location of Pad B next to the wet lands is going to be interesting during the Static Fire Testing and Launch of SN9 🚀
My falcon heavy gets all tingly when I watch stuff like this.
Wtf 😂
@Yt-drew no
Added detail on Super-heavy launch at sea would help. How large does the vessel need to be? Where are they building it now? Is there any more details?
I love your content
Nice video 👍👍
Very interesting!
Amazing
This Channel is so good 👌👍👍👍
Well if you can get enough power out of the engines at the top, to get the ship off the ground far enough away from debris to start the engines, that could be it.. But yeah not all planets will have low enough gravity for this... Maybe deployable landing legs that get the ship much farther off the ground? Adding more engines at lower thrust could be it or maybe point some engines at an outward angle just for take off and then once you are far enough from the ground light the main engines.
Cant wait for starship booster flame. I really like how saturn V flame diverted in 2 ways
At the moment the Raptor engines on the Starship have to be able to gimbal independent from one another (and I dont think that will change) so a structure like the Octaweb on the Falcon Heavy actually wont be possible. They might have to surround each engine with its own protection mechanism which will be a very complex task since there isnt much space in between each engine.
I want to be the part of space X in future
me too.
Same. What part of spacex y’all want to be part of?
@@thewizard-om2zu floor cleaner
@@rohil3023 *L O L*
@@rohil3023 janitor
Very excellent insight... I think each one of those topics will be resolved further down the pipeline of Thee SpaceX iteration Program. Elon, I'm sure will keep the manufacturing process here in the US to improve the over all processes in making a great space-liner. Keeping and growing STEM employment opportunities here in Texas and the states at every opportunity... There will be much to learn and improve in Manufacturing Starship Liners, Crew-ships, Moon Mars landers, Starship rotating Station keeping gateways, etc.... Prep Landing craft, possibly prep pads to protect against electrostatic charged regolith that sticks to everything on moon landings... Lunar Raised landing thrusters may not stop all the regolith serious issues on initial landings...
Debri is less of a risk in a vacuum, there's no shockwaves or turbulence to pick up and move rocks etc, rather just a stream of atoms that rebound off the surface. The exhaust plume also violently expands in all directions into the vacuum, the force at even a short distance is quite small. This enabled the Apollo landings, although the descent stage was single-use and was almost certainly slightly damaged.
interesting we shall have to see what they come up with ,maybe you could lift with reduced power and then throttle up when clear of the ground ?
You make good points about landing on Mars and the need to be robust enough to deal with launch and landing with no prepared pad. For Starship, this is necessary. Super Heavy is a different animal, however. It's ONLY going to launch and land here on Earth. And the need for a flame diverter/deluge system for all of those raptors will be REQUIRED if they are going to successfully handle it.
Just my two cents.
How will the crew determine that the ground is suitable for a landing, and the presumed take off ? Mr Armstrong had to manually intervene after using the mark 1 eyeball. Recent launches have shown that concrete was blasted from the pad. Armouring up the base of the ship, from an engineering point of view is straight forward. On the Moon, or Mars, at lift off , the surface around, and underneath the feet could be sufficiently eroded away or undermined by the exhaust gases , so as to make the vessel tilt. How much off, perfectly vertical can SpaceX launch from an alien surface. (We have already seen that it can fall over). Will the crew have to manually deploy some sort of ground shield after landing? Landing pads would have to be built eventually. Beefy bum and space concrete ? Personally I think what SpaceX is attempting is brilliant. And what they have already achieved is fantastic. Just very little info on the above.
The Starships legs will eventually have a self leveling feature. But that's and issue that is a long way down the road.
A cone shaped structure directly beneath the rocket engines with a high volume water nozzle at the tip + curtain of water encircling the perimeter of the launch mount. I think that would survive even superheavy.
Watch 3:00
Good video. Problems with the SpaceX launch system have been discussed by the SX community even before Musk announced that there would be no flame diverter. This video puts that all together and adds some additional information. As far as a trip (or trips) to Mars, I have always considered the first Starships sent to mars would be on a one way trip, without yet having a nuclear engine, that is at least a two year interval between flights. Make that a four year interval and you have time to build enough launch "pedestals" and landing pads to do the job. That also gives enough time to build the volume limited fuel making facility currently proposed by SX. NASA is already working on a nuclear engine that can act as a tug between destinations and that would require only enough fuel for the Starship(s) to takeoff from mars. Myself, I think the far more important mission for SX is the moon. We absolutely cannot afford SLS and their problems continue daily. The Super Heavy alone, with its greater capacity, could step in and be used to launch the Orion capsule and still put us on the moon by 2024. My preference would be to use the Starship for that purpose but probably not before 2026. Some skeptics might say we are at war and the first battleground is the moon. I think that is our most important destination.
This video was quality
Nice video.
Since The Beginning Of The Video I Wrote A Comment About The Fact That There Is No Launch Pad On Mars... I Was Planning To Post It At The End Of The Video...
You Got Me On The First Halftime I'm Not Gonna Lie...
The launch site issue needs to be dealt with in small scale before just ignoring it until later. A basic system similar to the basic tank/engine units from earlier tests that launches, lands, refuels and launches again from un-developed sites similar to what would be found on the moon and Mars. If they can't work it out in small scale then they are not likely to make it work in large scale.
Another issue is that putting the fueling ports in the engine bay drastically increases the chances of those ports being damaged rendering the craft either largely useless of perhaps even destroyed.
just came across this channel. (thank you UA-cam recommendations) its really nice to have video(s) focusing on potential SpaceX problems. But not coming across as is just a hater dumping on SpaceX just for the sake of it for self esteem.
sound energy lol, it disperses the rocket thrust yes.... and dampens the sound yes. The sound is not what heats the water, it is the huge flames shooting out of the rocket. :-D
The pressure wave peaks compress water vapor back to liquid and the low pressure between peaks allows that water to vaporise again, converting latent heat. Thus, the dangerous acoustic volume is reduced.
this is insane! rocked launching, and then landing it back on same spot! who would come on idea like that? rockets were always in a one way trip :)
Can the same steel produced to build the rocket cover the starting/landing pad on earth? Flat or maybe like a cone under and therefore reflect the heat outwards. Water could maybe be added from holes in the the cone. Image a big cone-sprinkler. A cone with holes, no parts just holes and high pressure water. - Just guessing. I usually don't now what I am talking about.
Can it be launched at 30 ~ 45 adjustable degree on a sustaining rail equipped with the booster, similar as the one on Aircraft Carrier. The rail sitting on a round plate could be turned 360 degree with a launch pad similar as the one used on aircraft carrier for taking off. It might solve the launch pad issue once for all. Turning the ship to the down wind direction for launch assistance by wind power, at least not against with it. After the ship is in the air then change it to vertical position slowly. The idea came from WWII German V2 rocket. In this scenario, it might reduce the required fuel and maybe engine as well. The saved payload could be applied to strengthen the starship structure and landing gears to achieve a normal landing as an airplane. Well, it might be crazy but maybe an optimized solution. Happy new years.
Designing Starship to give it enough lift for near horizontal take offs and landings would require such a thorough redesign that it would be less effort to make an entirely different spacecraft to start with.
Eventually, like with the Space Shuttle, examining for damage should be considered. After landing on Mars to see if you can get back to Earth or have other options.
You have no other option
The spaceship will return to earth regardless of the situation
put a heavy Kevlar shield around the engine bay in the Star ship, they have them on the Atlas V ///////////////////
Use heat resistance tiles on the lower launch pad, this is a very small cost effective method right?
To test for landing on terrain, they should launch from Boca Chica, go suborbital and land somewhere in Atacama Desert since its regarded to be mars like location.
Arizona's a lot closer.