IMHO, the trackpoint is useful for field workers who wear gloves but have to hold a laptop at the same time. Thinkpad users are not just people sitting in the office.
Yes, one can use a ThinkPad in the field because it won't break, especially the older models. I use my T480 (last good ThinkPad ever) in the cold frequently with gloves, because it's portable, upgraded with a 72Wh battery, and if you can't use a laptop like this in any environment for some reason - it's not a proper laptop, nor do you really do your job.
This is why the reviewers need to be considerate, they parrot each others' opinions and the only laptop with a trackpoint can potentially go out of the market because "everyone" complained about it.
The new trackpad works while wearing gloves. It uses new technology from vendor Sensel that measures the force applied instead of making an electrical connection with your hand (force sensor instead of capacitive sensor). I haven't tried one yet. It's supposed to be as nice as an Apple trackpad, but also work with gloves on.
Reviewers need to stop saying remove the trackpoint... it is a different use case than the trackpad. Trackpoints are superior for wrist ergonomics and restricted environments like a couch or airline.
Also trackpoint is good for those who always wearing hand gloves in their work (like healthcare workers or workers in specific construction site), as trackpad is useless when the hand is covered by gloves
Reviewers pulled the same shit with the MacBook Touch Bar. Just because they're not professionals and don't find it helpful doesn't mean it isn't. And no, video editing isn't a proper job in my eyes. @@sihamhamda47
I don't even like the trackpoint itself, but I use the trackpoint buttons along with the trackpad because I don't like pressing the trackpad to click, and prefer having separate buttons above the trackpad.
@@megamastah I am well aware that tap to click is a thing, and I do not like it. Too easy to accidentally click, somewhat unreliable when you do want a left click, more unreliable for center and right clicks, and click and drag is a huge pain. Plus it just doesn't feel like clicking.
you and 0.5% of people, just because you're loud in internet comment sections doesn't mean most people care or use it; yall seem to have an emotional attachment to it more than a functional need
@@r3d0c Maybe it's silly to like but it's kinda like a manual in a car. Som people just prefer it, no harm no foul. The thinkbook line is very similar and has no nipple if it bothers you that much. The 13x gen 4 is quite tempting with its 75Whr battery.
@@SenselInc, exactly! Also I completely disagree with @tomis181. As someone who does a lot or writing, the track point makes edits quicker and more accurate than a touch pad.
People have no idea what they're missing with the trackpoint. I control my entire ThinkPad from the home row without moving my wrists or palms, which is incredibly useful when using my laptop on a couch, in bed, or in any other position than at a desk. I'll never buy a laptop without it.
@@r3d0c And those of us who work for a living, unlike you. You wouldn't understand how useful it is. One engineer in the field working is worth more than a thousand people like you who use laptops as chromebooks.
Just wanted to say I really appreciate you putting a summary in the beginning. So many youtubers put every ounce of effort to getting you to watch every second for ad time. I understand it but it's nice to see someone who cares about the viewer's time too. Cheers Just Josh team.
Lenovo's wave of mega silent firings in early 2023 were absolutely despicable. They laid of thousands of really great people after posting record profits and bragging about moving up the Forbes list each quarter in their "All Hands" NA org sales meetings to those people that moved the needle for them. They ruined thousands of people's lives, especially those that relocated and even bought new homes during the peak of covid when Lenovo asked for their dedication to support and grow the business. Their warranty process is atrocious and considered terrible by anyone who has had to deal with service claims on top of this.
6:13 the TrackPoint is superior for tight situations such as a plane. I'm a small dude, and even I find it cumbersome to use the trackpad. I end up elbowing the person sitting next to me. With the TrackPoint and buttons, I need less space and my wrist doesn't fatigue as quickly.
IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad track is the identity of Thinkpad. If you take this feature out, it is like omitting Singapore Airlines' Singapore Girl or Disney axing Micky Mouse.
Great video but if they remove the trackpoint the THinkPad brand will lose it's identity. They did try to change the trackpoint buttons to make a larger trackpad and it was a huge failure. Maybe by making the buttons closer to the space bar it'd make more space but what's clear is it's no longer a Thinkpad without the nipple and the buttons. But great video overall I like it.
6:13 *All ThinkPad users disliked the video.* Unfortunately, I agree with them. Heck, some of them want the trackpoint on other laptops, and a few are working on a mod for the Framework Laptops! That shows dedication! 😂
@@JustJoshTechThere are massive fans who swear by it though. Personally, if it isn't broken and causing issues, then don't break it. I personally find it useful but not a dealbreaker if it wasn't there Great video otherwise though.
I don't have any real experience with the trackpoint but I do think Lenovo should ensure buyers aren't committed to it when it comes to the size or usefulness of their trackpad. Don't make customers get it! I personally wouldn't want one. Lenovo's a foolish company, anyway. If they cared, they'd ensure their laptops pleased as many people as possible and did something more than use a better processor and battery each year.
@@JustJoshTech it doesn't matter if you bought a T14 back in 1563, you're a tech youtuber, that edits videos for a living, you couldn't possibly understand what a trackpoint is useful for that a touchpad couldn't do. Try doing work in a polar station with your gloves on while using the touchpad. This laptop is for real hard work that your soft ass fingers couldn't possibly do.
The price will drop. This is just Lenovo's initial high pricing, in a couple of week high discounts will come in. Its always the same for their US store.
That keyboard backlighting looks straight up wrong, wtf. Like so wrong that it almost looks like they have the wrong key caps on. I’d be curious to see if this issue exists on other Gen 12s
Hard disagree about removing the trackpoint. A trackpoint offers benefits that a trackpad doesn't, primarily the ability to move the mouse without removing your hands from the keyboard. That allows you to work faster and smoother within spreadsheets and some programming situations, and greater ease of use in any situation with limited elbow room. And if you do use the trackpoint, the Thinkpad series is pretty much the only place you can still get it... which means that Lenovo is getting a lot of sales from the minority of laptop users who want it and can't get it from anyone else, sales they would immediately lose if they did what you suggested and made it very slightly more appealing to people who don't like the trackpoint (who could go literally anywhere else). Other than that, all solid points.
@@JustJoshTechthe light coming from the underside of the keys doesn’t look particularly dim, that’s why I wonder if this particular unit somehow has the wrong key caps on, as you can typically configure these thinkpads without a backlit keyboard and so maybe they have 2 different sets of key caps in stock. Definitely an issue, but I’d be interested to see if this issue persists on other units
Anyone who wishes the Trackpoint gone, is really not quallified to review a Thinkpad. It's only because you don't know how to use it. It has a learning curve, but it's well worrh it. Apart from that, great review.
I have been buying and using ThinkPads since my first T14 in 2003, which I used when I coded for IBM. I lived and died off the Red Trackpoint, and used it as my primary pointing mechanism. Even over a mouse. It is my opinion that trackpads are more accurate now than the trackpoint, and keeping it in this lapotp makes the trackpad experience worse for the majority of buyers. I am entitled to my personal opinion without being told i'm "not qualified". Just like you are entitled to your opinion.
@@JustJoshTech i respect your opinion but i don't think you understand that the trackpoint is irrepressible, it has been there for decades and it is the factor that differentiates a thinkpad from any dark laptop. you should've gone for a yoga or a Z series
I want this new gen Carbon, but I’m waiting on the new trackpad to come out. I use the Trackpoint, and on that topic please explain how exactly having it negatively impacts non-trackpoint users.
the trackpoint is very useful and very ergonomic - it is not a matter of trackpad precision - their function is different and the trackpoint allows for more efficient workflow - if one does not use it then the comments are subjective and concern only those who do not use it - do not frame your opinion as an objective statement - it is NOT outdated - ergonomics are still important not all people are using the laptop for facebook scrolling.
0:55 sounds like something a Soy Dev would say. 😂 I used a Thinkpad X1 nano for 2 years without issues. Most Enterprise level development runs heavy builds or large program compilation in the cloud anyways.
I am *SO GLAD* Lenovo are finally putting OLED displays on these things. I still use my X1 1st gen on a daily basis but the i7 is starting to struggle and compared to MacBook's and other machines with gorgeous displays I've used from even around the same 2012 era as that with the Retina MBP the screen is absolutely abysmal and has been for the past nearly 14 years now.
I would rather they used a nice IPS or IPS Mini LED panel, every big OLED screen I've ever encountered has instantly given me a migraine. PWM flicker sucks.
IPS or miniLED are much better for this workflow, office, web browsing, social media, etc. If you buy this to watch media, there are much cheaper OLEDs with a 16:9 aspect ratio that will be better. I dislike using it for real office work as it does my eyes in.
The OLED display for laptops is a deal breaker because they flicker at much lower frequency and might induce head/eye issues while working. OLED only good when watching movies but not for productivity.
@@r3d0c He mentioned that PWM dimming is used 0-100% on this laptop and for the 20-30% that suffer from this, maybe buy another laptop. I suffer from PWM dimming and use miniLED for work. Also, he mentioned on a white background there are issues (around 3 mins in).
I disagree. The TrackPoint is one of the best and iconic feature of the ThinkPad. Though I do think they should make the left and right buttons even smaller since we don't really need them to be that big.
I disagree with the removal of trackpoint. As a power user that barely uses the mouse, the trackpoint is just a very quick way of moving the cursor when I need to. I prefer not having to move my hand when I'm working.
Personally I think that pinpoints are super cool. Considering how much you bend your hands to go from the keyboard to the trackpad, I think I would spend the time to learn to use the pinpoint (coming from a Razer Blade diehard user)
Stay away from the nipple! Mouse > Nipple > Trackpads. Trackpads are by far the worst way to move the screen pointer, regardless of how "good" the trackpad is.
I really hope it's a bug or something... though it's hard to imagine it's something that can be fixed by an update. That's literally totally useless "backlit". It's backlit only in the most technical sense of the word.
@@Winnetou17 Sounds like a 'we subcontracted out the new keycap production to the lowest-bidder in CHina and they fucked up and couldn't do it so we had to bodge some new ones in time for release but they couldn't do double-shot so just live with these' kind of thing
Hey I have been watching your videos for a while now and tbh I love it Joshua! They are great infact your smartphone review was the best phone review I actually watched because it was so honest. Keep it up!
Hey Josh! We hope that you get a chance to test out the version with our upgraded haptic touchpad once Lenovo releases it, hopefully in March. It has a 26% larger touchpad area than the clickpad version you received. Also, we'd love to talk - will be sending you an email today. 🙌
I have been watching your content for a hot minute now. It always delights me when you keep upping your production value and presentation skills. Let's see what the future holds 🥂
I like your reviews very much, but DO NOT tell me, that trackpoint is outdated... for me it's one of the reasons to choose ThinkPads over, for example, MacBooks
I am leaving comments everywhere just to let people know, the fan noise from Gen12 is significant even if I am just watching youtube video. I was expecting a quiet laptop but this is definitely not one of them. I had Gen2 x1carbon it was much quieter. This Gen12 is even louder than my 2020 Dell latitude.
I am in balanced mode. If switch to best energy efficiency it becomes quieter but significantly slower. I wonder if I should contact lenovo ask for a replacement. I also bought a macbook pro 13.3 with 24gb ram and m2 chip, tried for three days eventually returned it because I can't get used to MAC system. But that thing is much quieter than Gen12. @@JustJoshTech
@@JustJoshTech So I just called Lenovo customer service. The only thing they told me to do was to update BIOS via lenovo vantage which came out on April 1st.... I looked at the details, one of them seems related to thermal control unit. I guess Lenovo noticed this issue. So I updated, nothing significantly changed, still got this noisy fan. They said maybe it is what it is, just the design of this generation. So I am considering returning it.
trackpoint is a must - we need it and it is the most important feature of thinkpads!!! I am tired explaining this. I thought this channel is a little bit more educated than others.
Actually not at all. I bought my first ThinkPad T14 back in 2003. Used it to code for years when I worked as a software developer at IBM. I personally used to use the Trackpoint exclusively as trackpads were awful. I have owned many ThinkPads and used it (the Trackpoint for decades). The TouchPad are now more accurate, and I feel it's time to switch. Sorry if that's controversial and you disagree... but I'm not out of touch. I know the machine and it's history
@@JustJoshTech why not just replace the trackpad with a haptic one and keep everything else the same? Then you have the best of both worlds. Like no one thinks the trackpad on a Thinkpad is great. They all suck. But if we could just update that trackpad and keep buttons and trackpoint, don't you think that is better than replacing the whole thing with a haptic touchpad. Like what would make that Thinkpad different from any other Ultrabook?
It's a shame that PWM is present in all brightness levels in such a premium and expensive laptop. This is what stops me from buying laptops with OLED screens. Had hope in this new gen but it's disappointing. Why is it so difficult to have flicker-free screens? Do the new OLED monitors also have this problem?
Have been a long time user of T14/T14s, X1 Carbon being always out of my budget, but for past 2-3 years, I switched to HP EliteBook, previous one being 835 G8 5850U/16GB/1TB (samsung 970 Evo Plus), and recently upgraded to, again, EliteBook G10 7840u/32GB/5G with 2TB Samsung 990 Pro, total ~USD1,650 only. The same same config by T14s was several hundreds more. I definitely miss the ThinkPad keyboard, which I rate as "A+", the EliteBook is next best as "A" by me, and the Trackpoint (Spectre better, you must be kidding!). For my wifey who does photo editing, I got ZenBook 155H/32GB/1TB and she is loving the OLED 120Hz. P.S. At last they managed to swap "CTRL" and "FN" ... thumbs UP!
thanks for the clear description in the beginning! As a developer, this makes me sad, since it looks near perfect.. I still watch the whole video because your videos are just great! I am hoping you could also include a 'lap' test (comfort, screen angle, weight distribution etc.) for laptops since, well, they are *lap* tops lol, and I personally use them a lot on my lap for getting quick work done in a pinch, or on the couch
@@JustJoshTech thanks for the double reply! Such legends! I hope you can mention the lap results for all laptops in future videos! Also, considering 2024 laptops, which one would you consider a best pick developer laptop that has a good screen, maybe even 16 inch, and lightweight + good keyboard and build quality? ( Leaving Macbooks out of the equation) Battery life would be a great plus too, mostly web development with mostly RAM being an issue, and need a decent performing CPU, Core Ultra 7 levels seem decent
@@Winnetou17 a lot of things still remain subjective, which is why we pick certain reviewers who we align with (for the most part). There are also objective parts to it that can be reviewed, the points I mentioned above could be both subjective and objective depending on what is tested. Things like PWM are also subjective things, but we pick the reviewer which we trust and align with. That's the beauty of this industry
I read that there will be a version of the Carbon with a haptic trackpad like the Z-series. Perhaps that will address your complaint since the trackpoint buttons are integrated.
Good review, but I hugely disagree on your trackpoint opinion, which is probably one of the main aspects of buying a thinkpad! it's simply a lot more ergonomical and efficient to use in a heavy usecase scenario than a trackpad. In your video I can see from miles away that you are not a regular thinkpad (trackpoint) user ;) What's the laptop stand you are using at 6:40?
Has it more flex than last Gen? Where did they put the print key? (I use it a lot for screenshots.) I'm surprised they didn't put a better cam into the new chassis. Battery runtimes sound quite good. I can't get more than 3 hours out of my 10 Gen X1. Pricing on release has always been ridiculous. Thanks for the great video, was a joy to watch and very informative!
I e been an avid X1 user since they came out. Unfortunately, they discontinued the 4K display, so I had to switch to a Dell. If Lenovo brings back the 4K, I’ll come back.
Not a very nice thing to say Josh about the trackpoint being removed! Some people find it useful and it's your decision to not use it. I personally don't mind the trackpoint and use it time to time and navigation is easier. You should have rephrased your tone to a normal one, not an angry one. So, if you don't like the trackpoint, don't use it, but it doesn't mean you should say that to hundreds of thousands of viewers watching you. Lenovo doesn't find the red trackpoint outdated and cannot change that. What matters in a laptop is that it brings the features you like and find useful and meets your daily needs. It's simple as that! I'm not hurting your feelings or ruining your channel's reputation and I fully understand that the videos you're making require a huge effort. Next time use your words carefully to prevent diagreeing comments about the removing trackpoint from being flooded.
X1 Carbon is the best thin laptop. Quiet, Cool, Good performance and very light. They also last. I had my Gen 3 for several years before finally getting Gen 11. Gave my Gen 3 to someone else, and they are shocked that it's a 12 year old laptop
I agree. ThinkPads are. This specific one is far from ideal. As I always say, it depends on what you are coding and what you are coding in though. That being said, for most coders i've met, this one is very underpowered on Balanced mode compared to other laptops. So i'm referring specifically to this model. If you are ok running it on High Performance mode that will change that, but as I showed you, it gets warm and loud. I would look at other ThinkPads if you want to code. That's why we are getting in the T14 and T14s.
Thank you for review, especially your work with testing this unit on Linux and giving us the results. It means a lot, saves out time and money. I hope you'll do such testing in a future reviews 🙏
This is about the third Core Ultra laptop that I have seen that did not support Linux out of the box. The community may take a while to adapt to this new architecture. So I would not buy it in the hope a quick update will fix it.
This laptop is very durable. It is a dog. This is a difference. it is not only about the first month or first year. It is about the second, third, fourth year. It doesnt get impacted by falls, by liquid falls, by bumps by punches. It is undead. In this regard it may be similar to the durability of Macbooks if they are (probably the are) also very durable. So I dont agree for just comparisons of performance when bought and the specifications.
So I've seen many of your reviews today. Generally I've been on Lenovos for years, before that on Dells Latitudes and XPS'. For some recent years I've been on T14(s) and lately on T16 gen1. I change laptops every 1-2 years. T14 and T16 seems like a more solid choice due battery life (I upgraded my current T16 to bigger battery) and lower price. So now I'm back doing research. I can afford a laptop with price over 2k but I need ultrabook (very portable), VERY long battery life, AWESOME (as close as possible to regular size and key distribution, not super low keys, I use logitech MX mechanical on desktop) keyboard, good trackpad (I always preferred buttons to no-button trackpad, for precision reasons), oled screen, around 14 inch (up to 15), great wifi, bluetooth, usb-c, usb-a (sd card reader is a plus). Of course I would buy top CPU but not at the expense of battery life. Manufacturers put crazy battery life numbers on the specs, but I would love to see some 4 hrs of battery life under no screen dimming, no limited CPU performance etc. So what do I do? Web browsing, office stuff, programming, youtube, netflix. Generally no games, occassionaly some photoshoping or very light and quick video editing. I'd avoid dedicated GPU because it will eat up my battery, run laptop hot, noisy and with full fan speed - all the things I hate tbh. So a portable work horse without any stupidities like I've seen on so many laptops when design etc. runs over user experience and usability (remember keyboard touch stripe on X1 some time ago? omg!). What are my options besides X1? Spectre x360 14 (no need for 2 in 1 really, also I don't care about touch screen)? It has to be windows laptop, no Mac. Many thanks.
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Could you please tell me if the 2.8K OLED display is gloss or matte because it's not very clear from the specs?
IMHO, the trackpoint is useful for field workers who wear gloves but have to hold a laptop at the same time. Thinkpad users are not just people sitting in the office.
Yes, one can use a ThinkPad in the field because it won't break, especially the older models. I use my T480 (last good ThinkPad ever) in the cold frequently with gloves, because it's portable, upgraded with a 72Wh battery, and if you can't use a laptop like this in any environment for some reason - it's not a proper laptop, nor do you really do your job.
This is why the reviewers need to be considerate, they parrot each others' opinions and the only laptop with a trackpoint can potentially go out of the market because "everyone" complained about it.
I love the track point and I sit in the office. It is a unique feature to think pad and needs to stay.
The new trackpad works while wearing gloves. It uses new technology from vendor Sensel that measures the force applied instead of making an electrical connection with your hand (force sensor instead of capacitive sensor). I haven't tried one yet. It's supposed to be as nice as an Apple trackpad, but also work with gloves on.
Reviewers need to stop saying remove the trackpoint... it is a different use case than the trackpad. Trackpoints are superior for wrist ergonomics and restricted environments like a couch or airline.
Also trackpoint is good for those who always wearing hand gloves in their work (like healthcare workers or workers in specific construction site), as trackpad is useless when the hand is covered by gloves
Reviewers pulled the same shit with the MacBook Touch Bar. Just because they're not professionals and don't find it helpful doesn't mean it isn't. And no, video editing isn't a proper job in my eyes. @@sihamhamda47
I don't even like the trackpoint itself, but I use the trackpoint buttons along with the trackpad because I don't like pressing the trackpad to click, and prefer having separate buttons above the trackpad.
@@someone-mn8or you don't have to press the trackpad to click, just touch. Unless you know this.
@@megamastah I am well aware that tap to click is a thing, and I do not like it. Too easy to accidentally click, somewhat unreliable when you do want a left click, more unreliable for center and right clicks, and click and drag is a huge pain. Plus it just doesn't feel like clicking.
Track point is part of what makes it a thinkpad not just any random laptop can’t get rid of it
Saying that trackpoint should be removed from thinkpad is simillar like saying that touchpad should be removed from macbooks
Track point is just fancy name for nipple
Yeah it was a bit of a stupid comment
"I have a red nip on my laptop"@@chy453
Do people actually use it though?
@@doruperoim only using the trackpoint
Removing track point is bullshit. It's still accurate if you know how to use it. And you don't need remove fingers from keyboard for touchpad.
Good review. But I must entirely disagree on removing the track point. Sensel has an upcoming hybrid trackpad option for those who want it gone
you and 0.5% of people, just because you're loud in internet comment sections doesn't mean most people care or use it; yall seem to have an emotional attachment to it more than a functional need
@@r3d0c Maybe it's silly to like but it's kinda like a manual in a car. Som people just prefer it, no harm no foul. The thinkbook line is very similar and has no nipple if it bothers you that much. The 13x gen 4 is quite tempting with its 75Whr battery.
Thanks @tomis181! Appreciate you calling that out. And you're spot on, a ThinkPad wouldn't be a ThinkPad without the TrackPoint.
@@SenselInc, exactly! Also I completely disagree with @tomis181. As someone who does a lot or writing, the track point makes edits quicker and more accurate than a touch pad.
People have no idea what they're missing with the trackpoint. I control my entire ThinkPad from the home row without moving my wrists or palms, which is incredibly useful when using my laptop on a couch, in bed, or in any other position than at a desk. I'll never buy a laptop without it.
I disabled the touchpad in the uefi.
Sorry but the trackpoint is the key selling point for not a few people.
based
for 0.5% of people, so almost no one
@@r3d0cYou don't have a ThinkPad, do you? Have you ever tried using your laptop in the cold? Or do you just only use it at home?
@@r3d0c And those of us who work for a living, unlike you. You wouldn't understand how useful it is. One engineer in the field working is worth more than a thousand people like you who use laptops as chromebooks.
You can disable the track pad in windows setting btw
Just wanted to say I really appreciate you putting a summary in the beginning. So many youtubers put every ounce of effort to getting you to watch every second for ad time. I understand it but it's nice to see someone who cares about the viewer's time too. Cheers Just Josh team.
Lenovo's wave of mega silent firings in early 2023 were absolutely despicable. They laid of thousands of really great people after posting record profits and bragging about moving up the Forbes list each quarter in their "All Hands" NA org sales meetings to those people that moved the needle for them. They ruined thousands of people's lives, especially those that relocated and even bought new homes during the peak of covid when Lenovo asked for their dedication to support and grow the business. Their warranty process is atrocious and considered terrible by anyone who has had to deal with service claims on top of this.
6:13 the TrackPoint is superior for tight situations such as a plane. I'm a small dude, and even I find it cumbersome to use the trackpad. I end up elbowing the person sitting next to me. With the TrackPoint and buttons, I need less space and my wrist doesn't fatigue as quickly.
To be honest, using trackpoint is much more comfort and enjoyable than using a touchpad. It causes much less strain on hand than swiping all the way.
IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad track is the identity of Thinkpad. If you take this feature out, it is like omitting Singapore Airlines' Singapore Girl or Disney axing Micky Mouse.
Great video but if they remove the trackpoint the THinkPad brand will lose it's identity. They did try to change the trackpoint buttons to make a larger trackpad and it was a huge failure. Maybe by making the buttons closer to the space bar it'd make more space but what's clear is it's no longer a Thinkpad without the nipple and the buttons. But great video overall I like it.
The trackpoint should not be removed. It is also useful when you are wearing gloves
It need to be removed it outdated is it the reason why most people will choose an hp over a Thinkpad.
@@mario-qq7bq then how do you use your laptop if you're on the field?
6:13 *All ThinkPad users disliked the video.*
Unfortunately, I agree with them. Heck, some of them want the trackpoint on other laptops, and a few are working on a mod for the Framework Laptops! That shows dedication! 😂
Lol. As someone who bought a ThinkPad T14 back around 2003, trust me, I get the red trackpoint.... but i think it's time :)
Cool re Framework mod
@@JustJoshTechThere are massive fans who swear by it though.
Personally, if it isn't broken and causing issues, then don't break it. I personally find it useful but not a dealbreaker if it wasn't there
Great video otherwise though.
I would absolutely buy a trackpoint module for my Framework.
I don't have any real experience with the trackpoint but I do think Lenovo should ensure buyers aren't committed to it when it comes to the size or usefulness of their trackpad. Don't make customers get it! I personally wouldn't want one.
Lenovo's a foolish company, anyway. If they cared, they'd ensure their laptops pleased as many people as possible and did something more than use a better processor and battery each year.
@@JustJoshTech it doesn't matter if you bought a T14 back in 1563, you're a tech youtuber, that edits videos for a living, you couldn't possibly understand what a trackpoint is useful for that a touchpad couldn't do. Try doing work in a polar station with your gloves on while using the touchpad. This laptop is for real hard work that your soft ass fingers couldn't possibly do.
The price will drop. This is just Lenovo's initial high pricing, in a couple of week high discounts will come in. Its always the same for their US store.
how much? bc they’re still the same price
Im a field engineer and i use gloves so trackpoint works great for me.
On the point directly at the beginning!
Great content as always!
You got it
That keyboard backlighting looks straight up wrong, wtf. Like so wrong that it almost looks like they have the wrong key caps on. I’d be curious to see if this issue exists on other Gen 12s
Hard disagree about removing the trackpoint. A trackpoint offers benefits that a trackpad doesn't, primarily the ability to move the mouse without removing your hands from the keyboard. That allows you to work faster and smoother within spreadsheets and some programming situations, and greater ease of use in any situation with limited elbow room.
And if you do use the trackpoint, the Thinkpad series is pretty much the only place you can still get it... which means that Lenovo is getting a lot of sales from the minority of laptop users who want it and can't get it from anyone else, sales they would immediately lose if they did what you suggested and made it very slightly more appealing to people who don't like the trackpoint (who could go literally anywhere else).
Other than that, all solid points.
1:51 Darnit, I was looking forward to eating this battery for dinner with a bit of thermal paste on the side. Oh well.
That keyboard backlight at this price...wtf Lenovo!
Yep but of a fail on that one lol. It's so dim!
@@JustJoshTechthe light coming from the underside of the keys doesn’t look particularly dim, that’s why I wonder if this particular unit somehow has the wrong key caps on, as you can typically configure these thinkpads without a backlit keyboard and so maybe they have 2 different sets of key caps in stock. Definitely an issue, but I’d be interested to see if this issue persists on other units
Anyone who wishes the Trackpoint gone, is really not quallified to review a Thinkpad. It's only because you don't know how to use it. It has a learning curve, but it's well worrh it.
Apart from that, great review.
I have been buying and using ThinkPads since my first T14 in 2003, which I used when I coded for IBM. I lived and died off the Red Trackpoint, and used it as my primary pointing mechanism. Even over a mouse. It is my opinion that trackpads are more accurate now than the trackpoint, and keeping it in this lapotp makes the trackpad experience worse for the majority of buyers.
I am entitled to my personal opinion without being told i'm "not qualified". Just like you are entitled to your opinion.
@@JustJoshTech i respect your opinion but i don't think you understand that the trackpoint is irrepressible, it has been there for decades and it is the factor that differentiates a thinkpad from any dark laptop. you should've gone for a yoga or a Z series
No, dont remove the trackpoint! Its the main reason to get a thinkpad for me and it Lenovo does away with it, theres no option left for me anymore.
That is assuming that anyone would actually want to buy a nu-ThinkPad with how overpriced they are. All ThinkPads starting from the T490 are a joke.
I want this new gen Carbon, but I’m waiting on the new trackpad to come out. I use the Trackpoint, and on that topic please explain how exactly having it negatively impacts non-trackpoint users.
the trackpoint is very useful and very ergonomic - it is not a matter of trackpad precision - their function is different and the trackpoint allows for more efficient workflow - if one does not use it then the comments are subjective and concern only those who do not use it - do not frame your opinion as an objective statement - it is NOT outdated - ergonomics are still important not all people are using the laptop for facebook scrolling.
Thank you for the Linux compatibility test
0:55 sounds like something a Soy Dev would say. 😂
I used a Thinkpad X1 nano for 2 years without issues. Most Enterprise level development runs heavy builds or large program compilation in the cloud anyways.
I always disable the trackpad because it will move the cursor when I am writing. That is why I very much prefer the TrackPoint.
I am *SO GLAD* Lenovo are finally putting OLED displays on these things. I still use my X1 1st gen on a daily basis but the i7 is starting to struggle and compared to MacBook's and other machines with gorgeous displays I've used from even around the same 2012 era as that with the Retina MBP the screen is absolutely abysmal and has been for the past nearly 14 years now.
I would rather they used a nice IPS or IPS Mini LED panel, every big OLED screen I've ever encountered has instantly given me a migraine. PWM flicker sucks.
IPS or miniLED are much better for this workflow, office, web browsing, social media, etc. If you buy this to watch media, there are much cheaper OLEDs with a 16:9 aspect ratio that will be better. I dislike using it for real office work as it does my eyes in.
I was interested until the remove the "trackpoint" part
The OLED display for laptops is a deal breaker because they flicker at much lower frequency and might induce head/eye issues while working. OLED only good when watching movies but not for productivity.
those are just bad/old OLED screens with PWM dimming
@@r3d0c He mentioned that PWM dimming is used 0-100% on this laptop and for the 20-30% that suffer from this, maybe buy another laptop. I suffer from PWM dimming and use miniLED for work. Also, he mentioned on a white background there are issues (around 3 mins in).
I disagree. The TrackPoint is one of the best and iconic feature of the ThinkPad. Though I do think they should make the left and right buttons even smaller since we don't really need them to be that big.
with the middle button pressed, you can scroll vertically and horizontally using the track point
it's better than scrolling using track pad
I disagree with the removal of trackpoint. As a power user that barely uses the mouse, the trackpoint is just a very quick way of moving the cursor when I need to. I prefer not having to move my hand when I'm working.
You should be excommunicated from the tech community for talking trash about the glorious trackpoint. Shame on you!
lol
Personally I think that pinpoints are super cool. Considering how much you bend your hands to go from the keyboard to the trackpad, I think I would spend the time to learn to use the pinpoint (coming from a Razer Blade diehard user)
LEARN IT. Trust me! 1 month and you'll never ever go back.
I'm a programmer and the x1 carbon is a great device.... 90% of coding doesnt need a ton of resources imo
Stay away from the nipple! Mouse > Nipple > Trackpads. Trackpads are by far the worst way to move the screen pointer, regardless of how "good" the trackpad is.
word!
It's not good for general navigation, but it's great for moving the cursor over slightly without having to move your hands from the keyboard.
The TrackPoint is pretty much the primarily reason why I still use a ThinkPad. Without it I might as well get something else.
Huh... who designs a backlit keyboard with completely opaque keycaps? Like.. that's braindead levels of design.
I really hope it's a bug or something... though it's hard to imagine it's something that can be fixed by an update. That's literally totally useless "backlit". It's backlit only in the most technical sense of the word.
@@Winnetou17 Sounds like a 'we subcontracted out the new keycap production to the lowest-bidder in CHina and they fucked up and couldn't do it so we had to bodge some new ones in time for release but they couldn't do double-shot so just live with these' kind of thing
Hey I have been watching your videos for a while now and tbh I love it Joshua! They are great infact your smartphone review was the best phone review I actually watched because it was so honest.
Keep it up!
Thank you very much for the nice comment
We need trackpoint! It's far superior than trackpad in many ways.
The trackpoint allows me to keep my hands on the homerow
Trackpoint is the most important reason for buy thinkpads
I'm a programmer, please show me how you select text on a trackpad, then we'll talk about Thinkpad alternatives.
I have no problems doing this at all
Hey Josh! We hope that you get a chance to test out the version with our upgraded haptic touchpad once Lenovo releases it, hopefully in March. It has a 26% larger touchpad area than the clickpad version you received. Also, we'd love to talk - will be sending you an email today. 🙌
I have been watching your content for a hot minute now. It always delights me when you keep upping your production value and presentation skills. Let's see what the future holds 🥂
I like your reviews very much, but DO NOT tell me, that trackpoint is outdated... for me it's one of the reasons to choose ThinkPads over, for example, MacBooks
You'll know how useful TrackPoint is when you're in a damn coveralls or gloves on the production floor and in the machine room.
I am leaving comments everywhere just to let people know, the fan noise from Gen12 is significant even if I am just watching youtube video. I was expecting a quiet laptop but this is definitely not one of them. I had Gen2 x1carbon it was much quieter. This Gen12 is even louder than my 2020 Dell latitude.
I am completely shocked. I have two. They aren't loud at all. Which performance mode are you in?
I am in balanced mode. If switch to best energy efficiency it becomes quieter but significantly slower. I wonder if I should contact lenovo ask for a replacement. I also bought a macbook pro 13.3 with 24gb ram and m2 chip, tried for three days eventually returned it because I can't get used to MAC system. But that thing is much quieter than Gen12. @@JustJoshTech
@@JustJoshTech So I just called Lenovo customer service. The only thing they told me to do was to update BIOS via lenovo vantage which came out on April 1st.... I looked at the details, one of them seems related to thermal control unit. I guess Lenovo noticed this issue. So I updated, nothing significantly changed, still got this noisy fan. They said maybe it is what it is, just the design of this generation. So I am considering returning it.
@@ZK-od3dbcould you fix the issue?
Incredible battery life considering battery capacity is very small but pricing is very very high😢😢
trackpoint is a must - we need it and it is the most important feature of thinkpads!!! I am tired explaining this. I thought this channel is a little bit more educated than others.
Why would you recommend removing the ThinkPad's most iconic feature? So out of touch with the users of this machine.
Actually not at all. I bought my first ThinkPad T14 back in 2003. Used it to code for years when I worked as a software developer at IBM. I personally used to use the Trackpoint exclusively as trackpads were awful. I have owned many ThinkPads and used it (the Trackpoint for decades). The TouchPad are now more accurate, and I feel it's time to switch. Sorry if that's controversial and you disagree... but I'm not out of touch. I know the machine and it's history
@@JustJoshTech why not just replace the trackpad with a haptic one and keep everything else the same? Then you have the best of both worlds. Like no one thinks the trackpad on a Thinkpad is great. They all suck. But if we could just update that trackpad and keep buttons and trackpoint, don't you think that is better than replacing the whole thing with a haptic touchpad. Like what would make that Thinkpad different from any other Ultrabook?
It's a shame that PWM is present in all brightness levels in such a premium and expensive laptop.
This is what stops me from buying laptops with OLED screens. Had hope in this new gen but it's disappointing.
Why is it so difficult to have flicker-free screens? Do the new OLED monitors also have this problem?
Cant wait to buy a refurbished Gen 12 after 3 yrs
trackpoint is the trademark for lenovo premium product.
I am sorry i cant tolerate the stupidity of people asking to remove the trackpoint.
Also, the anti-fingerprint design is something both IBM and Lenovo have lacked over the brands 35 year history. A big need and want finally met.
Thank you so much for the linux chapter 👍.
DO NOT remove the Track Point.
Have been a long time user of T14/T14s, X1 Carbon being always out of my budget, but for past 2-3 years, I switched to HP EliteBook, previous one being 835 G8 5850U/16GB/1TB (samsung 970 Evo Plus), and recently upgraded to, again, EliteBook G10 7840u/32GB/5G with 2TB Samsung 990 Pro, total ~USD1,650 only. The same same config by T14s was several hundreds more. I definitely miss the ThinkPad keyboard, which I rate as "A+", the EliteBook is next best as "A" by me, and the Trackpoint (Spectre better, you must be kidding!). For my wifey who does photo editing, I got ZenBook 155H/32GB/1TB and she is loving the OLED 120Hz.
P.S. At last they managed to swap "CTRL" and "FN" ... thumbs UP!
That trackpoint is literally the only reason i buy a thinkpad lol.
T14, T14s 😍 can't wait!
thanks for the clear description in the beginning! As a developer, this makes me sad, since it looks near perfect.. I still watch the whole video because your videos are just great! I am hoping you could also include a 'lap' test (comfort, screen angle, weight distribution etc.) for laptops since, well, they are *lap* tops lol, and I personally use them a lot on my lap for getting quick work done in a pinch, or on the couch
This one is super comfortable on the lap. I really liked using it like that
This one is super comfortable on the lap. I really liked using it like that
@@JustJoshTech thanks for the double reply! Such legends! I hope you can mention the lap results for all laptops in future videos! Also, considering 2024 laptops, which one would you consider a best pick developer laptop that has a good screen, maybe even 16 inch, and lightweight + good keyboard and build quality? ( Leaving Macbooks out of the equation) Battery life would be a great plus too, mostly web development with mostly RAM being an issue, and need a decent performing CPU, Core Ultra 7 levels seem decent
@@Burbanana To be fair, including a section for lap usage feels a bit too subjective, a lot of things can differ from person to person.
@@Winnetou17 a lot of things still remain subjective, which is why we pick certain reviewers who we align with (for the most part). There are also objective parts to it that can be reviewed, the points I mentioned above could be both subjective and objective depending on what is tested. Things like PWM are also subjective things, but we pick the reviewer which we trust and align with. That's the beauty of this industry
I read that there will be a version of the Carbon with a haptic trackpad like the Z-series. Perhaps that will address your complaint since the trackpoint buttons are integrated.
That's right! Lenovo will release a version with an upgraded Sensel (that's us!) haptic touchpad soon. Hopefully in March.
I disagree with removing the track point
Good review, but I hugely disagree on your trackpoint opinion, which is probably one of the main aspects of buying a thinkpad!
it's simply a lot more ergonomical and efficient to use in a heavy usecase scenario than a trackpad.
In your video I can see from miles away that you are not a regular thinkpad (trackpoint) user ;)
What's the laptop stand you are using at 6:40?
I turned video off when you said that lenovo should remove trackpoint :)
imagine spending $2500 laptop and cannot play a game of LoL
Shut up trackpoint is 300% better than stupid touchpads
Has it more flex than last Gen? Where did they put the print key? (I use it a lot for screenshots.) I'm surprised they didn't put a better cam into the new chassis. Battery runtimes sound quite good. I can't get more than 3 hours out of my 10 Gen X1. Pricing on release has always been ridiculous. Thanks for the great video, was a joy to watch and very informative!
Wow the Linux issues are kind of hard to ignore... Would appreciate any updated news regarding that. Hopefully it has improved.
I e been an avid X1 user since they came out. Unfortunately, they discontinued the 4K display, so I had to switch to a Dell. If Lenovo brings back the 4K, I’ll come back.
Not a very nice thing to say Josh about the trackpoint being removed! Some people find it useful and it's your decision to not use it. I personally don't mind the trackpoint and use it time to time and navigation is easier. You should have rephrased your tone to a normal one, not an angry one.
So, if you don't like the trackpoint, don't use it, but it doesn't mean you should say that to hundreds of thousands of viewers watching you.
Lenovo doesn't find the red trackpoint outdated and cannot change that.
What matters in a laptop is that it brings the features you like and find useful and meets your daily needs.
It's simple as that!
I'm not hurting your feelings or ruining your channel's reputation and I fully understand that the videos you're making require a huge effort.
Next time use your words carefully to prevent diagreeing comments about the removing trackpoint from being flooded.
This is a fair comment, i'm happy to reframe it next time
The speaker parts themselves are higher quality but the sound routing is still terrible without any upward sound. It's a step forward then backwards.
X1 Carbon is the best thin laptop. Quiet, Cool, Good performance and very light. They also last. I had my Gen 3 for several years before finally getting Gen 11. Gave my Gen 3 to someone else, and they are shocked that it's a 12 year old laptop
The segment at the beginning is why I have watched over 10 videos of yours in the past couple of days. Thank you for saving time.
I appreciate that
Not with you on this one. That think point is necessary
6:13 perfect example of how far youtube reviewers can be from reality.
Having the power button gives you the advantage of using it like a PC without having to open the screen to turn on the laptop.
Excellent review. Looking forward to the review of T14 and T14s!
There must be something wrong with this demo unit. The keyboard light of my Gen 12 unit is superb.
Hello, thank you for your explanation. I have x1 carbon gen 11. Is it a suitable computer for games on Steam and how does it perform in games there?
Would be great if you can review both Intel and AMD versions of new T14.
that larger screen bezel at the camera position is just ugly
Could you please tell me if the 2.8K OLED display is gloss or matte because it's not very clear from the specs?
As a programmer the thinkpad is 100% usable and supports my needs. I have no idea why you disagree at all. The issue is entirely for media workers.
I agree. ThinkPads are. This specific one is far from ideal. As I always say, it depends on what you are coding and what you are coding in though.
That being said, for most coders i've met, this one is very underpowered on Balanced mode compared to other laptops. So i'm referring specifically to this model. If you are ok running it on High Performance mode that will change that, but as I showed you, it gets warm and loud. I would look at other ThinkPads if you want to code. That's why we are getting in the T14 and T14s.
Once you go OLED you will never go back! I can't look at my other laptops now. It does use more power, but is 100% worth it.
Thank you for review, especially your work with testing this unit on Linux and giving us the results. It means a lot, saves out time and money. I hope you'll do such testing in a future reviews 🙏
They Wont remove the trakpoint because long Thinkpad buyers love that thing. And I think its the right move.
Linux will probably start working once the hardware isn't so new. Also, might be better on more bleeding edge distros?
This is about the third Core Ultra laptop that I have seen that did not support Linux out of the box. The community may take a while to adapt to this new architecture. So I would not buy it in the hope a quick update will fix it.
I know it's personal opinion, but i think the red trackpoint is the best feature and i can forgo the trackpad for the trackpoint.
Would love to see a list of laptops best for linux use and support
Dude you should say "wide gamut" instead of colour accurate. Colour accuracy is given by deltaE values. You just show the colour gamut in the video.
Very true.
Whoever can make a thick but light carbon gaming laptop, (thick for good thermal), I would buy it in a heartbeat
You put a slim business laptop into balance mode and then complain about gaming performance...
This laptop is very durable. It is a dog. This is a difference. it is not only about the first month or first year. It is about the second, third, fourth year. It doesnt get impacted by falls, by liquid falls, by bumps by punches. It is undead.
In this regard it may be similar to the durability of Macbooks if they are (probably the are) also very durable.
So I dont agree for just comparisons of performance when bought and the specifications.
So I've seen many of your reviews today. Generally I've been on Lenovos for years, before that on Dells Latitudes and XPS'. For some recent years I've been on T14(s) and lately on T16 gen1. I change laptops every 1-2 years. T14 and T16 seems like a more solid choice due battery life (I upgraded my current T16 to bigger battery) and lower price.
So now I'm back doing research. I can afford a laptop with price over 2k but I need ultrabook (very portable), VERY long battery life, AWESOME (as close as possible to regular size and key distribution, not super low keys, I use logitech MX mechanical on desktop) keyboard, good trackpad (I always preferred buttons to no-button trackpad, for precision reasons), oled screen, around 14 inch (up to 15), great wifi, bluetooth, usb-c, usb-a (sd card reader is a plus). Of course I would buy top CPU but not at the expense of battery life.
Manufacturers put crazy battery life numbers on the specs, but I would love to see some 4 hrs of battery life under no screen dimming, no limited CPU performance etc.
So what do I do? Web browsing, office stuff, programming, youtube, netflix. Generally no games, occassionaly some photoshoping or very light and quick video editing. I'd avoid dedicated GPU because it will eat up my battery, run laptop hot, noisy and with full fan speed - all the things I hate tbh. So a portable work horse without any stupidities like I've seen on so many laptops when design etc. runs over user experience and usability (remember keyboard touch stripe on X1 some time ago? omg!).
What are my options besides X1? Spectre x360 14 (no need for 2 in 1 really, also I don't care about touch screen)? It has to be windows laptop, no Mac.
Many thanks.
Hi! ThinkPads are special! But you could also consider reviewing the cheaper edition (series e and t) that some family could consider to buy
Lol. I said that at the end re T