Please! I agree. It's strange how he says often "tangents for the nerds" etc. I assume we all are, that's why we're here and learning more detail about theory? I think it is the verbose minority who are coming from live and new to this stuff. Most I think are learning and refining their GTO based gameplay.
Yes, the EV is higher and GTO is about maximizing your EV. It might apply to BB play in non-HU games, we haven't compared the EV, but tighter opening ranges that have way fewer hands that fold vs the smaller 3bet are likely why it's not so common in 6max or MTT
Nice video guys! Member of Upswing and big supporter of Doug here. I'm getting deep into heads up and I have just 1 question I'm hoping someone can answer for me. I use GTO Wizard and the solver tells you to 3bet tighter as you get deeper, but it also tells you to 3bet bigger as you get deeper eg. 100bb 2.5x-10bb 26% range / Then at 500bb 2.5x-12bb 18% range. I get the logic and Im not questioning Doug, Im just curious how you guys came to the conclusion to 3bet smaller when deeper? Are you using a newer more advanced solver or? Thanks. Great video as always on this channel
Doug and his coaches simply found the smaller 3-bet OOP strategy when deep is higher EV by running their own preflop sims from scratch. A word of caution about GTOWizard: it's not a bad tool, but it covers many many spots for many game types and the overall quality of the outputs can be marginal (or even somewhat bad) at times. For example, their 100bb HUNL opening range has roughly 25% limp. When we ran that spot properly for our upcoming tool (Lucid GTO Trainer), we only had 4% limps and as we let the sim run for longer, that limp frequency reduced even more. We wanted to try to replicate the GTOWizard output to see how they got that result. We were able to do so by taking a shortcut when running the sim. We gave the solver only one postflop bet size, which resulted in a much smaller game tree and thus a much faster (but less accurate) sim. By doing that, we also got a roughly 25% limp, just like GTOWizard. GTOW and tools like it likely take these shortcuts so they can cover more spots quickly. The downside is that they can be lower EV strategies (sometimes minimally lower) that are also way more difficult to memorize and implement. When it comes to the 3-bet sizing, I'd bet they simply used the 3-bet size they thought was close to right without comparing the EV to other sizes/strategies. But Doug, Fabian and other top HU players have done the work to verify the smaller 3-bet when deep strategy is best.
I appreciate the speedy reply, Thank you! I figured it was something like that, I didn't think it was wrong, just curious how he came to that conclusion. Thanks again!@@UpswingPoker
@johnnyho82 we haven't compared the EVs of that in ring, so can't say for sure. It is possible it still applies when playing from the big blind, specifically. What I can say is that top high stakes ring players largely DO NOT 3-bet smaller when deep. And high stakes MTT players 3-bet huge when deep (granted, there's an ante in that game type). The EVs are *probably* pretty close because there seems to be upsides and downsides to both. But that's just speculation.
@@UpswingPoker Answers like this really showcase your dedication to your audience, and that is beautiful to see. Thank you for your content, looking forward to your next webinar.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Get a sneak peek inside Doug's new course The End Boss System here: upswingpoker.com/the-end-boss-system-sneak-peek/
Link broken says cannot provide secure connection
@@diaryofacrankykid7270 it works on our end. Can you try a new browser or a private window?
A special guest and a great video, with great PowerPoints!!
Glad you let Doug on the podcast, Mike 😂
Can we have some video where Doug goes into the "weeds" for hours. We are all poker nerds here.
Please! I agree. It's strange how he says often "tangents for the nerds" etc. I assume we all are, that's why we're here and learning more detail about theory? I think it is the verbose minority who are coming from live and new to this stuff. Most I think are learning and refining their GTO based gameplay.
I guess in his course you can have that... he said there's 35 hours of content
Buy the course
HUNL FTW - I gotta check out this course
Great segment - made me think it would be great to have a 'river bluffing' segment on a future LevelUp podcast. Keep up the great work!
I'd love to see some nodelocking, for example for HU play.
Such an awesome video
Does the course cover any short stack concepts? I know doug excels at 100bb’s but short is a real leak in my game that I’m looking to patch.
no, deep stack only
no, deep stack only
Thank you!!!
So the raising size in a 9 handed game preflop goes UP when you're out of position but DOWN when you're heads up?
no when the stacks get deeper! 9 handed 300bb sb gas to 4 bet smaller then 100 bb (i understand it like that)
But where can you actually play HU NL nowadays?
good question xD
AQo value bluff YES!!!!!!
Is the preflop strategy of betting bigger IP and smaller OOP GTO approved?
And why doesn't the same concept apply to non-HU games?
Yes, the EV is higher and GTO is about maximizing your EV.
It might apply to BB play in non-HU games, we haven't compared the EV, but tighter opening ranges that have way fewer hands that fold vs the smaller 3bet are likely why it's not so common in 6max or MTT
@@UpswingPoker thank you so much! Insanely valuable content btw. Congrats
I train my bluff muscle everyday 💪🏽
humans are like "WHAT !!! IM NOT DOING THAT " made me LOL
Thanks for explaining to run deep in the wsop you will need to run good ….😂
Nice video guys! Member of Upswing and big supporter of Doug here.
I'm getting deep into heads up and I have just 1 question I'm hoping someone can answer for me.
I use GTO Wizard and the solver tells you to 3bet tighter as you get deeper, but it also tells you to 3bet bigger as you get deeper
eg. 100bb 2.5x-10bb 26% range / Then at 500bb 2.5x-12bb 18% range.
I get the logic and Im not questioning Doug, Im just curious how you guys came to the conclusion to 3bet smaller when deeper?
Are you using a newer more advanced solver or?
Thanks.
Great video as always on this channel
Doug and his coaches simply found the smaller 3-bet OOP strategy when deep is higher EV by running their own preflop sims from scratch.
A word of caution about GTOWizard: it's not a bad tool, but it covers many many spots for many game types and the overall quality of the outputs can be marginal (or even somewhat bad) at times.
For example, their 100bb HUNL opening range has roughly 25% limp. When we ran that spot properly for our upcoming tool (Lucid GTO Trainer), we only had 4% limps and as we let the sim run for longer, that limp frequency reduced even more.
We wanted to try to replicate the GTOWizard output to see how they got that result. We were able to do so by taking a shortcut when running the sim. We gave the solver only one postflop bet size, which resulted in a much smaller game tree and thus a much faster (but less accurate) sim. By doing that, we also got a roughly 25% limp, just like GTOWizard. GTOW and tools like it likely take these shortcuts so they can cover more spots quickly. The downside is that they can be lower EV strategies (sometimes minimally lower) that are also way more difficult to memorize and implement.
When it comes to the 3-bet sizing, I'd bet they simply used the 3-bet size they thought was close to right without comparing the EV to other sizes/strategies. But Doug, Fabian and other top HU players have done the work to verify the smaller 3-bet when deep strategy is best.
I appreciate the speedy reply, Thank you!
I figured it was something like that, I didn't think it was wrong, just curious how he came to that conclusion.
Thanks again!@@UpswingPoker
Does the smaller 3B OOP strat only pertain to HU play? Or do those apply in ring games as well?@@UpswingPoker
@johnnyho82 we haven't compared the EVs of that in ring, so can't say for sure. It is possible it still applies when playing from the big blind, specifically. What I can say is that top high stakes ring players largely DO NOT 3-bet smaller when deep. And high stakes MTT players 3-bet huge when deep (granted, there's an ante in that game type).
The EVs are *probably* pretty close because there seems to be upsides and downsides to both. But that's just speculation.
@@UpswingPoker Answers like this really showcase your dedication to your audience, and that is beautiful to see. Thank you for your content, looking forward to your next webinar.
You just gotta be Ducking good at poker like Doug. It’s that easy ;)
Great advertisement Doug. Really.
17.11 24
3 11 24
cards
one suggestion to my favorite channel: have a chroma key and blow away the background please.
Why won't Doug accept the heads up challenge from GoingHardInThePaint?
I dont know who that is but any delays in Doug's 100K HU challenges are usually a matter of scheduling
because he cheated in a hunl challenge
@@kstyle1343 No he didn't, dummy.
#1 Mistake poker players make is they are AFRAID!
Theres something very evil inside Doug, anyone else see it or am I just schizophrenic
Unless you have some supernatural power that let's you see into someones soul, no he looks normal.
Tessa Dumbski.
@@NutsHugger :((((((
Honestly I’m only entertaining your idea because your profile picture is appealing to my preference for women, but what makes you say that?