Frank Defends His Explanation of Why God Allows Evil
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Does Frank hold to the philosophy of utilitarianism? Don't let this monstrosity of a word intimidate you. By the end of this video, you'll have a grasp on the general concept of utilitarianism, why it doesn't align with the Christian worldview, and why it's incapable of answering the problem of evil or suffering in the present world.
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Why does God allow Bad Things to Happen to Good People? DVD👉📱bit.ly/3yu2EFW, and mp4 Download👉📱bit.ly/3btlKTf by Frank Turek
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#ProblemOfEvil #Christianity #Apologetics #Utilitarian #Philosophy
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I've read in the Bible that most people are going to heaven. *_"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)"_* -- Romans 5:17. This verse is basically saying that "much more" people will be in heaven than in hell. And Romans 5:15 says something similar; *_"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."_*
More people have eternal life than don't.
I need everyone to pray for my mom. Her brain tumor has gotten really bad and I need you to pray for her. She can’t speak well she can barely walk and I need you to help her out. Please I need you to😢
Praying with you. 🙏🏻 Psalm 46:1
🙏🫶🏼
Prayers for healing, comfort, and hope for your mom. Does she know the Lord?
Sorry to hear but she'll have a better outcome knowing NO ONE is parying for her.
You guys don’t need to pray anymore she is in a better place now
Jesus explicitly says, "there are few that will enter the kingdom of heaven.." - So while God knew beforehand most would be doomed to hell he still created us. As a believer I still find that hard to understand.
In countries with high infant mortality, people still continue having babies.
If a couple is going to have 10 children, 6 will be criminals but 4 will be good people. Should they not have children? I think they should have children for the sake of the 4 good children.
If I knew in advance that 4 of my 10 children were going to be criminals, I wouldn't have any. I take the opposite view, that it is more important to prevent evil if in the hypothetical situation of knowing the future.
And some of the criminal children can come to faith and be born again, saved for eternity.
@@Mike-ne8eb What if 2 of your 10 children were going to be criminals? Would you feel the same way? What if 1? Where do you draw the line?
Makes sense - until you have to explain it to the families of the murder victims.
@@SavedbyGraceAlone1962 Even if I knew only 1 would be a criminal, I still would not have children.
God bless you Frank! I learn a lot of this kind of videos... 😊
Man, Frank is one heck of a modern apologetic. Kudos!
Gof has not created the heavens and earth in vain. Glory to god.
@@sethsuleiman4419
That God is the Roman Jupiter.
@@sethsuleiman4419 all hail GOF!
@@harveywabbit9541
The planet?!? How does a planet create anything??
@@Legendendear
They gave us the days of the week. But every day is a SUN day. The biblical seven lamp stands (Menorahs) places the SUN in the center of the planets. The earth centric idea was replaced by the sun centric idea in 1500 A.D.
The young man’s first question was accurate. We KNOW this because the Bible tells us in Matthew 7:13-14
Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction; and there are many that go by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life and there are FEW who find it.
This is disturbing for those of us who are not born again, because it also says we must be in order to enter the Kingdom of God..
Ok, so go get born again. Is there a ritual or something? Or do you just write a check?
Read BHAGAWAT gita😊in english
And who MADE the paths, in the first place, meantime?
Because, @lynnef9330 , I cannot see it being Eve, that made those. Or Adam.
Maybe not even delusional Satan, to be honest. Seemingly, only one being ever could.
Also, presumably the Kingdom is not heaven; as that was not a perfect real, either.
No, we don't know this. Unfortunately, that's a grave mis-interpretation of this scripture (no pun intended). And demonstrates the myopic thinking of many Christians unfortunately. I really don't like to say it but it's true. There is a correct interpretation of this scripture that is not so hard to figure out. You can do it in a few minutes, I'm sure.
Hopefully quicker, than an unaided Torquemada ever took, to figure other things out - that is...
Wow nice explanation Frank! Love this channel❤! I hope to one day be able to answer with such abilities!
Try drinking ripple.
I love me some Frank Turek💖. He does a phenomenal job breaking down his arguments so that it's easily understood.
Agreed!
Frank is the slow Christians apologist
Ha ha ha. you're kidding me. The tortured logic, how Evil really is Good but we just don't know it yet. Tons of "Well I think.... it seems to me .... isn't it possible that.... maybe He meant... Well why not" &c, &c.
I don't think he's a conman so much as conning himself most of all.
@@helpmaboabb
This is a common ailment of Southern Baptists.
Very nice and respectable debate ❤
Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life and there are FEW who find it.- Matthew 7:13-14
But you are not in the flesh but in Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.- Romans 8:9🙏🏼
Great video as always Frank. God bless!
Good questions followed by good answers, thanks!
One can choose the path, not the consequences.
That was really a nice conversation.😊
Ripple was a fortified wine produced by E & J Gallo Winery as a Low end fortified wine that was popular in the United States, particularly in the 1970s.
Nice civilized conversation
Excellent point Dr.frank, we are confine to the present and we move with time.
I like Frank's answer.
It is true that you are free to make your choices but not free from the consequences that come from those choices, whether good or bad. Therefore, it's on you what you choose. Think before you do something. Search for truth, and you shall find it, as did C.S. Lewis, Nabeel Kureshi, and others.
Just another example of man's proclivity to place responsibility for personal choices onto God.
Man allowed evil to have dominion in this life when Adam & Eve made the personal chooice to listen to satan over God.
Christ is the Redeemer
If Adam and Eve made the choice for me, then they should be held be accountable. Not me.
@@mattr.1887 Are you saying you've never chosen to do evil? You are being held accountable for your own choices, as are we all.
But that is the upshot of Christianity from the outside. Look at the story. God created the world and put Satan in charge. First...that means Adam's sin didn't introduce sin into the world...God did in the form of his hated nemesis. Satan was sin...the embodiment of sin and he sinned as he lied to Eve. So sin was there before Eve disobeyed. God exposed his newly formed and innocent creation to the wiliest of creatures. He didn't even give Adam and Eve the same option as Satan. Satan rebelled in heaven with NO one tempting him. But God apparently didn't believe/wasn't sure his creation COULD sin on their own, so he put Satan in charge and allowed him access to the humans for a little insurance they'd sin.
And then, their sins didn't just affect them...there was this 'ripple' effect across the natural world and throughout history. But nothing can ripple unless there is something TO ripple IN, some sort of medium created by God to 'carry' a ripple forward and furthermore something has to have been given the potential/capacity to cause a ripple. Waves don't just ripple independently..they are a feature of water. So waves require water. And water doesn't ripple unless acted on by something that can cause ripples, like wind or a stone falling...cause and effect. But wind can't cause water to ripple unless there is friction and unless wind has momentum.
And no causes can exist, no medium can exist but what God created it AND it's properties. IOW if sin caused a ripple, first sin had to be given that potential like wind has momentum and affects water through friction..otherwise would have no affect. So sin has to have momentum, so to speak, and there has to be friction, so to speak, for sin to affect some medium. Then whatever it was that rippled had to have been created by God with the properties that allowed it to ripple after it was affected by sin. So sure, Christians say humans are responsible for their sins...wink wink...but they really know, deep down, that the reason we are sinful is because we're all born sinful (that is what the story in Genesis is all about...why humans are prone to sin if they're made by a good God). And the reason the world is corrupt is because God put Satan in charge and that's why Paul invented the idea that Jesus died on the cross to appease God so we don't have to because rrreeeallllyyyy we just can't help ourselves.
Kiel, of course I've done things I shouldn't have. I'm all in favor of accountability. But the claim is that I was forced to sin because Adam and Eve messed up. If that's what happened, then Adam and Eve are fault.
If on the other hand they had nothing to do with me, that's a different story.
@@mattr.1887 except that’s not the actual claim. You aren’t forced to do anything you do. You choose to behave as you have.
And let’s be honest, we all know it. We all know we as humans make bad choices. I can blame my evil choices on others. If I was abused as a child, I can’t say that me abusing someone else is my parents fault. I still made The choice to do the things I have even if my environment had a factor.
If that’s the argument, then should I ever be held accountable by the law?
Abuse victims that kill people later in life get off scott free?
We have a sin nature in the way that some people have an angry nature. It’s easy for those people to be angry and they often are, but no one argues that they are helpless and FORCED to be angry. They can choose each moment to be angry or not. They should be held accountable to their anger and the things they say and do while angry.
In a nutshell, God is almighty and everlasting. God can do what God wants to do. Name one person who can judge God. No one can. So when I wake up in my right mind, I try my best to be humble and give thanks because it could have been worse. God could have cast me to the dogs many times but He didn't. So I try to give thanks for small mercies. Thank you Lord for salvation
In the Beginning, Jupiter (IU Piter) created Heaven (Woman) and Earth (Man).
Anyone can judge god.
Pick any ruleset you like and anyone can judge your god according to it.
Well my "judgment" tells me that *"Buy your slaves from the heathen nations that surround you"* Is not nor ever was a "moral" instruction and certainly not a moral reference standard that anyone should adhere or aspire to. Do you agree *YES or NO* ?? 🤔
I can judge your god, afterall it's just a book character from a very unreliable series of books
If I thought he existed, I would call him out as an immoral thug
"In order for God to be proved fair and just before the universe, there are times when He sees that it will be best to allow Satan to have his way in bringing trouble to us for a time.
And often Satan is correct in claiming that we were seeking God only for what we hoped to gain from Him, and that if things were to stop going smoothly, we would stop seeking God."
Quote from "Faith that Works" by Morris L. Venden
That was a really good question though! I really like the back-and-forth on this one
That's a good explanation and a good question too..
Its a terrible answer tbh.
Who doesn't want grace? Unless your blinded by what truth is. (John 14:6) "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but by me."
Awesome!😇
The only thing i believe from this guys mouth was..... how do we know that. Exactly! And that's my take on the good book & God. If you've heard one religious debate, you've heard them all.
It's ridiculous to see people project their subjective "RIGHT & WRONG" on God, then HATE God for having a different definition. Yet their "mind from matter" worldview leaves them with NO RIGHT to subjectively think they know what is right, unless God gave them a free will to freely choose what is truly right from wrong! Let's pray God saves them from their own illogical thinking. 💜✝️💜
When will these "woke" people actually wake up and see their own self-refuting logic.
@@JoinUsInVRhow do you know what is right and wrong?
Are you saying without the bible, you wouldn’t know what is right and wrong?
@@stevenbatke2475 "Are you saying without the bible, you wouldn’t know what is right and wrong?"
Actually what they're admitting is that they DO have an independent (of God) basis for evaluating good/evil and they USE that basis to conclude God and what he mandates is good. If they really believed they didn't know right from wrong other than due to what God tells them and instills in their hearts, then calling God good would be tantamount to calling a glimy glitches shuker because all glimy glitches are defined as being shuker. IOW all their discussions about God and goodness would be meaningless gibberish. They could certainly have no personal convictions of what is right/wrong because all of their convictions would not be theirs but would have been placed there by God.
@@stevenbatke2475 Fair question.... Did you freely CHOOSE to ask it? I'm ultimately saying either God exists or he doesn't...
If He does NOT exist; then none of us have the ability to CHOOSE and decide what is right or wrong. Because we don't have a mind that can think through things and choose our own outcome between two possible outcomes (choose what is right and wrong).
We just have a "brain" . And that brain was not created by an intelligent mind, but instead by random processes that give us the illusion of intelligence. And that brain is literally constrained to function within the laws of science which state everything must follow those laws perfectly and can NEVER "choose* their outcome.
Therefore, in that no-God world, us humans don't ACTUALLY have the freedom to freely choose anything. Our brains are just BIOLOGICAL CALCULATORS. They are made up of exactly predictable electrical and chemical reactions, that are 100% forced to follow the predefined laws of science.
Reactions CAN'T reason. They can't choose between two possible outcomes. They just blindly follow a predefined process that started all the way back at the Big bang's start of our universe, until now. If that's the case our lack of choice is pointless because life has no meaning at all. So there's no logical reason to choose to love it or live it. IN FACT WITHOUT CHOICE, WE CAN'T EVEN LOVE. It's just artificial chemical reactions in our brain that have no real meaning.
BUT....... IF GOD DOES EXIST, then His intelligent mind is what gave us a FREE WILL to choose. And therefore I can look at all the evidence that points to the reality of God, and freely weigh that evidence and rationalize and choose what I think it points to as the "most reasonable" conclusion. I did that and it clearly points to the fact that it is more reasonable to believe God exists, then to believe the alternative.
For example, mountain of secular and biblical and archaeological evidence that supports the reality of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, demonstrates it's more reasonable to believe He is God, because He controlled life and death exactly as He predicted he would in the historical accounts documented in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Since He is God, and truly brought everything into existence out of nothing (which breaks all scientific laws, but is what all the scientific evidence points to that as the reality of the start of our universe at the big bang) then His definition of right and wrong within His creation IS the only logical definition of right and wrong for all of creation.
In a world with no God, I have no grounds to say what I think is right, is any more right than Hitler's definition of right. We are both simply randomly created beings, with no real free will, and therefore no real ability to know what is right from wrong. We just know what our random process created biological calculators happen to calculate. And no random process created biological calculator is more "right" then another, when it comes to morality.
Are you following me?
Did I answer your question?
Come look me up and let's talk. It would be much easier than texting in a video comment. I can show you the evidence inside and outside the Bible, and you can evaluate it for yourself, and freely choose what you think is most reasonable to believe the evidence points towards. Assuming you have the ability to freely make a choice, that is 😜
@@stevenbatke2475 The Bible (the Word) is the truth, Jesus is the truth. Not to mention that God put the law in everyone’s heart. Without God no human being could have known what is right and wrong. Grace is what we need if we want to be with God meaning if we want real love, light, truth, faith, and hope in this life.
Thanks CE
I love this Frank. Thank you for all that you do!
Ayeee God bless you my brother! ❤❤❤ God loves you so much!
@@luhgarlicbread you too man
why God would create us knowing we would disobey him?
well... how many times has your own children disobeyed you during their entire lifetime?
if you could go back in time would you still have kids knowing this?
I'm willing to bet most people would say yes... because of love.
I have a feeling that God would still create humanity even if it meant only ONE person would be saved.
There's a completely different scale in question here. You might change your view if you found yourself in an eternal torture chamber because Christianity was wrong and the real truth was something else.
But first, we have to prove that any of this is even real.
@@sterlingfallsproductions3930 wow resorting to insults already? “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
chill dude its not my fault my comment went way over your head. lol
@@mattr.1887 I have done my investigation already and have a TON of reasons and evidence for why I think Christianity specifically is true and why I came to choose Christianity over all the other religions. Here are a few great sources to start if you are interested.
-"The Christian Difference" written by several authors with a background specialty in each religion.
-"Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels" by J Arner Wallace.
-John Lennox (Mathematician and bioethicist) who was a former Atheist, many books and videos available
-William Lang Craig, philosopher. many books and videos available so take your pick
-"Case for Christ, Case for a Creator, Case for a Savior" by former atheist Lee Strobel who came to Christianity by trying to prove it false.
-pretty much anything from Frank Turek (Cross Examined)
The list goes on but those sources are my favorite.
@@mattr.1887we don't have to prove anything. Either you accept God or you don't simple as that.
@@herrluverr....so just assert nonsense... and that's it?
Lol... okay then.
Your silly supernatural claims are dismissed
The Will of God is supreme and mysterious.
Frank, you're a mighty man🖐🏾.
Thank you Lord for never giving up on me 😢❤🙏🙏🙏
God allows evil because he respects the freedom of his creatures, and, mysteriously knows how to derive good from it.
I wonder if he knows how diamonds are made, extreme pressures and extreme Heat, and look at the beauty it creates. The process might be very unpleasant I know all too well, but we know all things work together for good for those who love Christ and are called according to HIS purpose
Moronic analogy....
Beauty is subjective
Sure - no pain no gain.
But what about an eternal hell? I can understand even millions of years of a hell - but one that NEVER ENDS? There's nothing good that would come out of that.
Unless the rules and conditions for hell are different than what Christianity tells us.
First, we have to prove that hell exists at all. Any takers?
But, what about an eternal choice that yields an eternal consequence?
We don't have to prove hell. Christians didn't come up with that information.
You either believe Christ or you don't.
@@TheGuy.."we don't have to prove hell"
Or god... or the resurrection... or heaven... or demons.. or angels...
Just pretend you know what you clearly do not
The Christian way.
@@mattslater2603 I don't pretend to know, I claim that I believe.
Don't confuse the Christian way with a confused pretender's way. Scripture doesn't require us to "know" but rather to believe (have faith) based on evidence (not proof).
Romans 8:28
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
Just pretend you know things...
The Christian way
@@mattslater2603*"Just pretend you know things, the Christian way."*
Only if you Learnt the "Christian way" from McDonald's.
@@cisuminocisumino3250Nope, wrong again.
Christians can't show that God exists... at all.
Yet pretend he does.
Christians can't show that heaven or hell exists... at all.
Yet just pretend they do, anyway
Seems like I'm exactly right.
Sorry.
@@mattslater2603you're exactly right
@@logicalatheist1065 I concur...
Knowledge is DEMONSTRATED... not just impotently asserted.
Christians cannot escape this... because then they have to acknowledge that there is no reason to accept their silly supernatural claims over any other religions'.
So they just shut down and run away... as Cisumino has demonstrated for us, here.
Excellent response Frank!👏👏👏
Low standards
@@mattslater2603
Says the COWARD who won't HONESTLY ADDRESS MY QUESTIONS... and runs away!🤣🤣🤣
This silly boy's standards are so low that he BELIEVES IN THE MYTHOLOGY that DNA CODE SELF-CREATED and SELF-ASSEMBLED into cells ACCIDENTALLY!🤣🤣🤣🤣
He can't prove his FAITH in the MYTHOLOGY of naturalism...but really REALLY REALLY BELIEVES...due to such low standards for his outlandish FAITH!😉
Love this man God bless him ❤
Did they hire a new editor? Nice graphics!!
Kind of looks that way. Usually when Frank mentions Hitler, they show a graphic of a Nazi. But not when he mentions Hitler at 4:00.
Frank is correct here. It is very likely that without suffering and evil, there would be far far fewer beleivers. This is evidenced, for example, by the countless testimonies that exist around the world where the instrumentalisation of suffering was integral to a person's conversion and/or sanctification. If God simply prevented suffering and evil, many of us (probably me included) would have continued living in ours sins.
This becomes much more complex when you think about the ripple effect. For example, the suffering and martyrdom of the disciples has led many people 2000 years later to become convinced that what they were preaching is true, thereby leading them to repentance, salvation and sanctification.
I commend the questioner in the video for being respectful and open to honest discussion.
You cannot seriously believe that if your god showed up tomorrow and abolished even a fraction of the suffering in the world less people would believe in that god.
It could start with something simple, instead of just granting the gift of virtual immunity from cancer to the naked mole rat, extend that gift to human babies.
@@downenout8705 I don't see any good reason to rule out the theodicy I presented, especially given the examples I gave. You suggested that there wouldn't be any less believers if God abolished a fraction of the world's suffering. Well, how do we know how much of an abolition of suffering is required to maintain the number of believers, eventual believers and/or greater goods? And how do we guage how much suffering God *does* actually prevent?
In fact, there have been numerous medically documented miraculous healings in Jesus' name. For example, I encourage you to look into the individual cases of Bruce Van Natta, Greg Spencer, Chris Gunderson, Barbara Snyder, Sister Bernadetta Moriau and Wes Huff. These are only a small number of examples out of many but they do provide powerful evidence
If I were God, there would be no children getting raped. So what does that say about God, and what does that say about me?
If this god came out of hiding, went around actually helping people and also eliminating the diseases it created, that god would win over countless people
@@lawrenceeason8007 Jesus did indeed do that and he won over many Jews. But I don't see how it can be demonstrated that overtly going around healing people would always lead to a maximisation of repentance and salvation. In fact, when Jesus performed miracles, many people became more hostile towards Him. Similarly, when God showed his power in Egypt, Pharaoh became more hostile towards God. Even today we see many atheists who say that they would not repent and become a Christian even if God showed up in their life. In contrast, we see countless testimonies of people coming to Christ because of the suffering they experienced in their life. It's very plausible that without the many sufferings in the world, people would reject God thinking there is no need for Him. Similarly, if God simply healed everyone, we would start taking God's salvation for granted, remaining in our sins and no longer seeking the Good (God)
thanks for the explanation ... these questions hv been bothering me for some time
Frank, your logic based on Grace vs Justice was right on the mark. Does cause one to ponder carefully what one thinks & believes. Let’s pray that God will illuminate the minds of these questioners & they come to know the saving Grace of God.
Definitely sadistic. Funny how an all loving god dispenses so much of that justice rather than so much of that mercy.
Funny how an all powerful god can’t figure out how to get more people into heaven. What a loser
His mercy endures forever proclaimed over 30xs in the scriptures
@@dallas1891He has given us all option into heaven. You must remember we have sinned against God. He have broken his laws so why would he allow us into his home without some form of redemption?that's where Christ comes into play, he paid for the price for our sins and can forgive us. Therefore giving us grace and giving us the chance to enter heaven
@@dallas1891 oh, but he's not a loser, and can indeed figure out that.
It's just he WON'T, because he's not loving. He's a lovecraftian horror and we are his playthings.
An omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent god should be able to create a being that can have free will without suffering. It's a logical paradox to us humans who live in the real world, but a god that can do anything could solve this problem. What is heaven? Is there free will in heaven?
Anything can happen in fiction
Heaven (biblical) is the period of crop production and harvest. For the northern hemisphere, this is symboled as beginning at the spring equinox and ending at the autumn equinox (this is the six "days" in Genesis one) and the signs are Aries thru Virgo.
Hell (Sheol) is symboled as beginning at the autumn equinox and ending at the spring equinox (this is the six "nights" in Genesis one) and the signs are Libra thru Pisces.
This is only the basic division of the year/world/generation and is constantly modified.
Libra (Saturn Day) was moved above to join Aries thru Libra and became the Arc/Ark of the Covenant with "God." This sacred seven is found in many tales.
This left Scorpio through Pisces symboling the evil season of winter aka sether (666). See Rev. 9.5, where the scorpion (Scorpio constellation) is the leader of the five months that can harm man (cold/hunger/darkness/sickness/etc....).
This scorpion in Rev 9.5, leads Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces.
One Roman calendar has Pisces as the last month of the year (sacred). This sign was depicted as having forty days (Lent) that leads us the the pass over from winter to spring. February was the month of purification.
Another calendar depicts the year divided into the trinity of winter (Sagittarius - Pisces), spring (Aries - Cancer), and summer (Leo - Scorpio). All three of these seasons begins with Jupiter/Fire (Sun). This trinity is aka Vishnu, Brahma, and Siva.
An excellent example is Isaiah 9.14-15, where Israel (summer) is depicted as having the head of the noble/royal lion (Leo) and tail of the liar (Scorpio). The "historical" Israel is made up of Leo, Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio.
If we're to have free will in Heaven, and being proven that with free will sin happens... then Heaven won't last long.
So for Heaven to be eternal, free will must be taken away from us.
Wait a moment... If that's the case, why doesn't God make it right away, and prefers to play sadistic games with us in the meantime?
Only free people can have a choice and we've all chosen evil to some extent. No one wants the ability to choose to be taken away. If it were, we'd charge God with being unjust for not giving us a choice. Evil is here and thrives because we're sinners and we want it.
But free will isn't the issue, is it? It's that humans have a fallen, corrupt nature. And also that God permits Satan to rule the world. Isn't that a bit more than just creating a good world and giving people free will? IOW, if you are basing any of your doctrine on Genesis, then sin was in the world before Eve succumbed to temptation. It was there because God allowed/put it there in the form of the evil serpent who most see as Satan, a fallen angel who rebelled in heaven and took some of the angels with him. IOW, God created Lucifer. Lucifer rebelled and left heaven. But when God created the natural world, he put Lucifer in charge. THAT is different than simply creating a world and giving people a choice.
@@rizdekd3912 As it's written, death entered the world by sin and sin by the fall of Adam and Eve. People not only inherited the sin nature but even the earth was cursed because of Adam. Nothing says otherwise pre Adam and Eve.
Man was given dominion over the earth and they sold it out to Satan when they fell.
I don't know if a person would accuse God of being unjust because if they knew the lack of free will helped them avoid hell, they'd be relieved.
What if I said I want God to choose for me?
@@Mike-ne8eb They can avoid it now through Jesus and most people still reject Him. That's humanity for you.
Brilliant arguments
Lol...low standards
@matt
You likely didnt even watch the full video.
@@drillyourarguments Nope, just higher standards.
Less tolerance for b.s
How this Frank man talking about free being.... Who has free will
In a naturalistic worldview evil doesn't exist. Pain and suffering are a tool of evolution to create a stronger human. The problem of evil is more of a problem for atheist they complain about something that doesn't exist from a godless worldview
The irony is the humanist that elevates humans as morally good have no other choice but to blame humans for all evil as they've eliminated God and the devil from the equation.
@@festushaggen2563 exactly....with no higher standard beyond human opinion then their criticism of a God they claim does not exist fails miserably.
Evil absolutely exists my friend.
Pain is good because it teaches you to not hurt yourself. Suffering in itself is not good or evil, it's just something that happens as a result of something else happening that doesn't have to be intentionally malicious. This is what I think as an atheist.
But for a theist, a problem exists if an all powerful being exists and is supposed to have such intentions that doesn't allow evil and have the means and will to enforce that intention, but evil still exists in this worldview anyway.
@@mattr.1887 Why is it evil that chemicals do what chemicals must do?
I'm pleased to hear someone other than myself reference ripple-effect. 👍
This is all speculation, speculation. "Well how do you know it isn't...?" etc.. and then the free will. We are required to make a choice with no opt out possible. How free is that?
People don't "reject" God, they can't bring themselves to believe in a Book that SAYS there's a god , chiefly because the evidence is "hidden", for some reason.
The ripple effect only works if there is something to ripple and if the thing that happens can be transmitted via those ripples. IOW, in a world created entirely by God...there is nothing that happens, 'by chance.' Nothing happens but what it is due to processes/methods/means created by God and God had to also build into the world vulnerabilities so that when the 'ripple' hits something...it reacts or is otherwise affected. And NO, we're not talking about free will. This has nothing to do with one's freedom to sin. This is about the long term effects, the down stream effects, the ancillary effects of that sin. There can be none...no downstream effects except God created the possibility. And since it was design...God intentionally created the world so IF sin happened, then THOSE downstream effects would happen. IOW it wasn't by accident that the world was created vulnerable to sin.
It seems folks want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to contend God not only designed (and design is key) and created the world. He also created every capability and vulnerability. What's more, God continuously holds the world together...so whatever happens...whatever 'ripples' due to God keeping it rippling. Waves 'ripple' on the water due to momentum. Momentum was created by God. Momentum is maintained by God at every moment. If God ceased to support that momentum, the ripples would stop. In like fashion and now we're not talking about water anymore, the ripple effect of sin is due to a medium that ripples...ie something that can carry the effects of sin forward, and the momentum of the ripple in that medium only can continue BECAUSE God holds it together continuously.
@@helpmaboabb No; they choose to reject him. No; you can opt out. No; look up the evidence for yourself; it's right there at your fingertips. 😏
@@sterlingfallsproductions3930 What do you mean 'good in ripples?' If you're talking about situations where someone does a good deed, is kind, etc. and someone experiences the good deed and then does another good deed for someone else...then yes, that is the kind of 'ripple' effect one can understand. But that's NOT what I understand the 'ripple' effect is that he's talking about...if he's basing it on Genesis.
Let's use that example to describe what happened. The serpent lied (sinned) and convinced Eve to sin and she convinced Adam to sin. Those are understandable ripple affects. One can be linked to the other.
But what caused the world to be cursed? What linked Adam and Eve to the natural world itself, to other life forms, and to their children and their children's children? THAT link is NOT automatically part of the ripple effect described above. There is no logical reason for those things to be affected...unless God created the mechanism for it to BE affected. Why would their disobedience cause genetic defects...there's no 'link' between what Adam thought and did with the sperm he hadn't even produced yet that would sire his sons and daughters...there is no automatic way that his thoughts and decisions should cause his cells and body chemistry to be different unless God created that means. Even if they were cast out of an idyllic Garden, there's no reason why things that hadn't come into existence yet would be corrupted by their sin...no direct connection...unless God created that connection. THAT is what the ripple effect means...God created a medium which COULD ripple and gave that medium the properties to carry that ripple forward and also gave sin the power/properties to cause a ripple. All of that had to have been intentionally designed and created by God.
@@johnharrison6745 see original post. You ve changed nothing.
Praise God🙌🏽 that was brilliant.
GOD allows evil to happen because of free will. Yes their choices ripple and affect others.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil
Free will isn't logically compatible with the Christian God.
@@Gek1177 thank you for your opinion
@@larzman651you are welcome though it's not an opinion it's a fact.
@@Gek1177
You're deluded, a liar and a coward.
@@Gek1177 thank you for your opinion
Another human thinking he knows better than God how things should be.
He was simply asking questions.
You mean Frank?
@@mattr.1887 no, like you people from the Twilight Zone.
@@chloemartel9927wouldn't the twilight zone have things like hordes of zombies... and talking animals?
Oh wait... that's the bible.
Lol.
@@mattr.1887Lol. Perfect.
I think the observers in the show Fringe are another great way to demonstrate the ripple effect. They were beings outside time that typically only observed, but could also make slight changes that then had bigger and bigger effects in the world. I believe God operates on a more grand scale than even that of the observers.
Thank you so much. I never knew that there were different levels of punishment for people. I has to read luke 12 multiple times to understand that. So this video caused me to do that. Thank you. :)
I'm confused, where does it talk about different levels of punishment for people in Luke 12? I tried reading myself but don't understand.
@BaJanglesMcHumpry
Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
In verse 47, it said that the guy who knew his lord's will, but didn't do it will be punished with many stripes. But the one who didn't know but still did evil will still get published, but with fewer stripes. Which means those who go to hell won't suffer the same as others.
@@dreadGodshand thank you for providing the verse. God bless
Frank is the Goat 🐐
Talking donkey?
Amen
If it's your choice, then hell isn't punishment is the outcome of your choice.
The Lord is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance.
I’m not sure if you these comments get to you Frank Turek but I think it would be super cool if you called into the atheist experience UA-cam channel. The callers they get on their do not seem to be ready for the questions they get asked but it would be super cool to see your response to them. I am a believer and I love your videos and podcast. I just was recommending you check out their channel and have a conversation with them.
There is no such as "evil".
There also is no such as a interfering god in this world.
How old are you?
It's difficult or even impossible to weigh up good and evil in every case. For example, a fireman who ignores a person in danger to protect their own children and a fireman who leaves his children unprotected to save another person are both doing good for diffrent reasons and to different outcomes
I wouldn't classify that example as evil
@@1594simonsays That's my point. Both may be considered good but which is a 'greater' good?
An omnipotent God should not need to choose between the two.
Free will, but threats still undermine
Justice is always perceived in the negative. Not always the case though. Some righteous people suffer INjustice out of love, even love for the Lord. When they keep doing that, eventually the scales of justice in the positive must happen for them and be so rewarding, they likely won't be able to comprehend it.
oh my the wisdom
Where?
@@mattslater2603 Everywhere
@@laquan3661 Well, do you mean in revolting 2 Samuel 24?
Or - in reprehensible, Leviticus 25:46?
Perhaps also, when Augustine was running his mouth off, with ideas about 'typoi' kinds of inherent Jewish guilt, too? As regards the crucifixion.
We were not designed to live apart from God. So, I don't see the consequences of someone's using their free will to choose to be separate from God as a "punishment", but rather a result of the choices they made.
You would first have to prove that a God exists ?
All I hear are claims zero evidence .
Ok. I always love me a good ole Frank Turek video. But can we PLEASE go back to no video edits.
Romans 8:28 KJV
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Simple answer
How would we know Good if we didn’t experience evil? 😊❤
Sometimes I wonder if not existing/experiencing anything in the first place is truly a bliss...
We also wouldn't be able to call anything evil if there weren't an absolute good to compare it to.
Matthew 7:13 says that “broad is the path that leads to destruction and many will enter thereof”. Does this not indicate that “more” people, than not, will end up in hell?
Sheol usually translated Hell or its equivalent in the Bible is the "under world or subterranean cave" (Gesenius Heb. Lex., p. 1022). Sheol, then, is the earth in winter, when the Sun appears among the southern constellations. This is the true meaning of Sheol, which corresponds to the Hades of the Greeks. "Hades is an intermediate state between death and resurrection” = between death and life; it is the earth's sleep. (See Smith's Bib. Dict., Art. Hell). Sheol includes Limbo, or the border of Hell farthest from the state of bliss = summer, where all of earth who have reaped the fruits.
The gate to Heaven aka spring equinox is guarded by a son of Jupiter aka Perseus. Gad, the tribe assigned to the Ram Constellation is copied from Fortuna, a daughter of Jupiter.
The gate to Hell is the autumn equinox and is left unguarded. There are several calendars used in the bible. One is where "Hell" consists of five signs and a good example is Revelation 9.5. The scorpion (Scorpio constellation) is the leader of Sagittarius (Fire/Jupiter), Capricorn (Earth/Vesta), Aquarius (Air/Juno), and Pisces (Water/Neptune). The three sons of Noah (Earth) are Shem (winter), Japheth (spring), and Ham (summer).
Leviticus 26:14-17 NIV
[14] “ ‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, [15] and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, [16] then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. [17] I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
Leviticus 26:21-22
[21] “ ‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. [22] I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.
Leviticus 26:27-29 NIV
[27] “ ‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, [28] then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. [29] You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
So much for free will. Sounds more like an ultimatum
As much as we can say "why is there evil?" , most of us wouldn't know happiness without adversity.
Of course things like murder, r@pe, robbing, etc. are totally awful in every way, most of us would hate a world where everything went perfect all the time.
No one wants to watch a movie where everything goes perfectly for the characters with no type of challenge.
The reason I don't like a lot of Christian movies, is because many can be quite dishonest about human emotion and experience. Many are great because they understand needing something to overcome.
Doesn't mean we should welcome evil, it just means we should find life in going against it
Eleven Reasons Why God Allows Pain and Suffering (From the book: Answering the Hard Questions, Learning Answers to Understand and Defend the Christian Faith 2nd edition)
1. Every evil act of man or men has been allowed by God as part of the gift of free will that God has given mankind. God will not tamper with our free will because if he did, then we would be robots and, therefore, not responsible for our actions. Furthermore, free will is a requirement in order for a being to be able to love in the agape sense of the word. Love is a choice, and choices can only be made by beings of free will. God made a promise to man to give him dominion over the earth, and God cannot go back on his promises. Mankind could have continued in paradise, but man’s sins have made our earth full of suffering and misery. While evil seems to run rampant in our world today; ultimately, no one gets away with anything. There will be a payday one day.
2. Pain and suffering will make us go to God, but good times, blessings, and prosperity usually keep us distracted from God. So if pain and suffering turns a person towards God it would seem logical that God allows the consequences of sin to run its normal course; into pain and suffering. Moral evil is the result of humans with free will acting on their selfish, sinful desires and lusts.
3. Just like a muscle needs resistance to be built up, likewise, adverse circumstances are needed to build up and test our faith in Christ and the Bible. Pain and suffering result from adverse circumstances.
4. God wants mankind to learn experientially that in spite of a man recognizing the truth about sin and his self-determination to be good, sin inside of man inhibits the ability to be good. No matter who a person is or where they are in the world if they were to examine themselves and all of mankind and be honest, they would realize everyone has inherent selfishness that cannot be overcome by education, training, medications, or any other way.
5. God has allowed sin to continue so that its consequences can be seen in the lives of people throughout history. The history of the human race is a testimony as to why sin is so bad that it cannot be allowed to continue into eternity; that’s why sin must be eternally separated from those who are holy. That’s why hell is real and eternal.
6. People will talk at length about the existence of God as an intellectual philosophical exercise but pain and suffering make people more serious about understanding and seeking God. Pain and suffering can draw a person to God OR a person’s pain and suffering can cause their anger to lash out and blame God. But it seems like no one wants to blame the devil for anything.
7. Satan's, Adam's, and Eve's choice to sin gives God an opportunity to display his attributes of mercy, forgiveness, and grace. God uses what is selfish and sinful and works it out for the ultimate good and for His glory. Everything that has happened and will happen is being used by God for an ultimate purpose.
8. One reason God allows evil to run its horrible course through human history is to give a glimpse of how bad the universe would get without God to intervene against sin. Do we believe in God’s Word that says the sufferings in the world are temporary? Our life on earth is but a vapor.
9. The physical world that we live in is a temporary stage of existence by which we have the opportunity to develop a faith relationship with God. The way we are now, the way we think and act towards God and others in our mortal bodies will be the way we think and act towards God and others in our immortal bodies. Do we believe God that all things are for our good even if everything appears to be bad and out of control?
10. For Christians, God sometimes uses pain and suffering to move us into action or to change.
11. The pain and suffering caused by evil is a tool to train and prepare believers for eternity where they will have an intimate personal relationship with God and rule and reign over a part of God’s kingdom. Ultimately, we are to take on the character and unselfish holy nature of God. We are to grow up and become like our heavenly father. 1 Peter 1:14-16 (NLT) tells us, “So you must live as God's obedient children. Don't slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn't know any better then. But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. For the Scriptures say, ‘You must be holy because I am holy.’”
No greater love has anyone but this - that a man (or woman) lays down their life for those they love. That’s why Jesus says to take up your cross and follow after me. Deny your self. If we love Jesus with our whole heart, then we will love the world by telling them the truth of the Gospel even if they reject, persecute, and kill us. These things we could never understand or learn to do except when there is pain and suffering from sin in the world.
Even though God uses evil for His righteous purposes, God did not create evil. So, where did evil come from? Free will creates the possibility of choosing selfishness. And once chosen, selfishness is the spark that grows into irreversible, progressively increasing evil behavior. Moral evil results from selfish behavior as it progresses to higher levels.
(See Chapter Four for a more detailed explanation. It’s on Amazon.)
There is an easy answer to this question and it’s in the Bible:
Matthew 7:13-14: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
The Bible always highlighted a remnant of believers, not every one coming to Christ.
You reap what you sow
Will said Mike
God originally intended man to live in paradise free from sin and evil... we ruined that but in the process gained true free will by then having the knowledge of sin and therfore the abilty to choose between good and evil.... basically we sacraficed paradise for free will.... Maybe that is why the old saying" ignorance is bliss" rings so true! 🤷♂️
If only he'd had the forsight to make different choices.
Tell me dear, how could Adam or indeed mankind make moral choices without being able to differentiate good from evil ?? Without knowledge of right and wrong every moral "choice becomes meaningless, choice *A* no more valid than the diametrically opposed choice *B*
And yet ...... dispite Gods foreknowledge of this he still decided to deny Adam and Eve this knowledge and to punish not only them for gaining this knowledge but also their descendants ?? 🤪 how utterly absurd and immoral!!
We have names for people who do not know how to differentiate right from wrong and we lock such people up in concrete boxes or execute them. Yet this is how your "God" wanted mankind to be (and we would still be if not for the Serpent) and you think him a perfect moral reference standard 😂😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
When your all knowing omniscient "God" created the "tree of knowledge", the Serpent, Eve, and placed them in the garden did he not know IN ADVANCE all that would follow ?? and yet he still did so changing nothing 🤔
Pray tell which of the factors involved in Adams "choice" was God *NOT* responsible for ?? His GENETICS, his nature, his knowledge and understanding, every single internal and external influence from his environment was aledgedly created by God with foreknowledge.
It was then imposed upon a man who had no knowledge of good and evil. Who was then expected to go against his programing and make a "choice" that would either lead to his decendants being punished for his "SIN" or remaining in ignorance of what morality even is 🤔🤔 lol some "choice"
You know to me that whole original sin biblical narative ( forbidden fruit ect ) seems analogous to me putting a loaded shotgun in a toddlers cot telling them not to touch it, and then being surprised when I hear a *BANG* 💥 and I'm not even omniscient 🤣😅🤣😅
@@trumpbellend6717You can know murder is wrong without being a murderer yourself.
And Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.
@@ingela_injeela
Lol i can "know" because unlike Adam I have knowledge of good and evil dear 🤭🤣
The ripple effect argument sounds comforting and logical, but it can be used both ways, so it really isnt worth much. A meaningsless horrible event cant just as well ripple effect into another horrible event.
Its unreal how prepared Frank is.
Hardly unreal. All he does is say god's will is unknowable whenever he's asked a question that points out a contradiction. He'd make a great used car salesman.
@@jonsoule7421 You are claiming that "whenever he is asked a question he just says it is God's will"? I just saw a video where someone said it was a contradiction between the accounts of Jesus's resurrection. He answered by saying that it was different perspective, and that if police are given two testimonies that are too similar they think that you are lying. So the different perspective further prove in the eye witness accounts. That right there is an answer he gave, where he didn't say "its God's will". So no, he doesn't always say that.
Saved people will not be held responsible for unsaved people. The individual must make the choice of exercising their faith in God. The individual must believe God. All believers can do is make sure they practice love. “ Pure and undefiled religion before God is this: to visit the orphans and widows ( poor people) in their trouble and keep oneself unspotted from the world.” James 1:27
We could debate semantics all we want about why evil exists, but our brains can’t understand God’s perfect morality. We can’t fathom it, nor attain it. All we can do is use the “problem of evil” as a proof for God’s existence, because if it weren’t for a perfect ideal we’d have nothing to compare or contrast ourselves to. And if that’s the case, which it would have to be, then that perfect ideal has to be God. Regardless of your faith, if you don’t believe especially- and you have a problem with evil, then I think you should take it upon yourself to alleviate the suffering of others wherever you may find it.
Can anyone tell me which part of Luke 12, that Frank is referring to in regard to varying degrees of eternal punishment? BTW, I am a fan of Frank, I am not trolling. Thanks
Verses 47-48
@@schlauchmeister234 thank you
You will get justice if you are just, the just shall live by faith, all not of faith is sin, we are saved by grace through faith. YOU CANNOT GET GRACE IF YOU ARE NOT JUST. Sin = no grace.
Why does religious indoctrination start at an early age when tell you about Santa and the tooth fairy etc
Reminds me of Romans
”And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all-how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.“ Romans 8:28-39
Why does it have to be a majority that are saved? Somehow he has to find a way for good to outweigh the bad
Jesus said it is a narrow gate that few will find. That means less people recive gracious mercy then those who receive judgment and wrath.
I have a question! Why did God feel a need to make a world to worship him? Isn't that kind of narcisistic? I feel awkward if someone sings me happy birthday, so the idea of creating people with their sole purprose to worship me feels insane. Why does he need us to worship and love him?
Then tell people not to sing happy birthday to you anymore.
@@rebeccablackburn9487 Rarely a thing in Sweden, the point being, the Christian deity is a raging narcisist if he feels like he needshis most important creation to worship everything about him
God tortures and kills even his worshippers, so it can't be a God of love. He's a lovecraftian horror.
I allow it...because TRUTHFULL RESPONSIBILITY COMES WITH ALL THOUGHTS, PRONOUNS AND DEEDS.
HOW ELSE TO BE FREE ?
YIS-YA... the one many call Jesus Christ and GOD.
💞
How do I contact Dr. Turek. My question is if God knows the beginning and the end, then He knows who is going to heaven and hell before they are born right?
He knows if you will be going to heaven or hell before you are born
I find it funny how much people limit God's power to justify him not being evil. As if God couldn't have made a world free of diseases, natural disasters, evil etc; a world just like the heaven he promissed us.
We don’t have to “justify” God not being evil. God is not evil because a human’s subjective and fallible moral standard cannot be used to judge the Creator of the universe.
Think of it this way: if you go to someone’s house for dinner, you don’t have the authority to tell them “you have to sit like this; you have to set the table like that.” Why? Because it’s not your house. The universe is God’s territory, not ours, so we don’t have the authority to make rules and impose them on God.
Furthermore, who said God couldn’t create a perfect world?
@bunbacheso You didn't answer my comment at all. You're talking about a totally different subject. God made everything as it is, so YES he is evil.
Seriously as a Christian I love the post of this type of content but that eerie back ground music that many people put on their videos is really irritating and I’m trying to be respectful about it 🙏🏻 Just throwing that out there
also, utilitarianism is a worldly idea based on finite resources. An infinite everlasting God capable of all of creation is not limited.
Like God is the Universe.
If all those generations of believers hadn’t been wrong in their belief, we wouldn’t have the opportunity to appreciate what Jesus did for us.
And, we wouldn’t have the need to feel we are the moral standard. Disrespect for life is a privilege, and we should thank God for that freedom.
For those who question the goodness of God for sending unbelievers to eternal hell:
Research annihilationism: the belief that spiritual death (which comes from sin) is simply that: your spirit/soul dies. That's what hell is. You no longer exist.
If annihilationism is true, then now the Bible makes more sense.
1. God said Adam would die on the DAY that he ate the fruit. But he lived for 930 years. That is not the same day.
Solution: Adam died SPIRITUALLY on the day that he ate the fruit. He became a sinner.
2. Death entered the world through sin. But why would that necessarily be a consequence? It doesn't follow logically, and it seems unfair to all the other animals who don't sin. Why not apply it only to humans?
Solution: *Spiritual death* entered the world through sin. Sinners (humans) deserve spiritual death because they have sinned against God. Animals haven't sinned and thus will not receive spiritual death.
3. God sends EVERYONE to hell except for those who believe in Jesus. This creates problems for those who have never heard. It's an uphill battle to say that those who have never heard the gospel can avoid eternal punishment in hell. And even if it's the case that they won't be punished in hell, doesn't that give us Christians an incentive to make sure NO ONE hears the gospel? After all, it is objectively and infinitely better for someone to go to heaven than to be eternally tortured, especially if they hadn't heard the gospel. Keeping the gospel a secret from future generations seems to be the ONLY moral choice here.
Solution: If hell is simply your soul's death, then there is no moral problem for those who haven't heard the gospel. They won't receive the gift of salvation, but they won't suffer eternally for something they can't control either.
How can annihilationism be true if the unsaved are in eternal torment?
#2. Death entering the world and coming to all "men" (not the animals Rom 5:12) and becoming a consequence of sin follows logically if God chooses to make it so. God wants man to choose to be reconciled back to God.
Animals were dying for hundreds of millions of years before man sinned. Animals cannot suffer spiritual death. They are the soulish (nephesh) creatures but not spiritual (ruach) as humans are.
#3. Those who never heard will be judged according to the light they are given (Psa 19:1-4 & Rom 1:20). Also, no one in the OT believed in Jesus because Jesus had not yet arrived. People, like Abraham, were saved by their faith. God would know who would embrace the gospel offer if they did hear it.
Also, no one is eternally "tortured" in hell. They are in eternal "torment".
You don't seem to be taking into account that soul and spirit are different. People in English speaking countries seem to mash the two words together to mean the same thing. That is not the case in the Hebrew or Greek.
The soul is our physical reactive nature which the animals also have. The spirit is our non-physical reflective nature. Biblically, a spiritual nature is not shown to be given to the animals.
The word "death" in the Biblical languages is symbolic of "separation", just as "asleep" is symbolic of physical death.
Solution: those going to hell are going by their own rebellion of God and God sees to their choice.
I’m currently leaning more towards annihilationism too! Cuz it really makes more sense to why are we here. If eternal conscious torment (ECT) is true, I rather God not create any being since he doesn’t require us at all. But ECT have some scriptures to support too, like undying worm, smoke of torment rise forever, no rest day and night etc…. How do u deal with it?
Heaven (biblical) is the period of crop production and harvest. For the northern hemisphere, this is symboled as beginning at the spring equinox and ending at the autumn equinox (this is the six "days" in Genesis one) and the signs are Aries thru Virgo.
Hell (Sheol) is symboled as beginning at the autumn equinox and ending at the spring equinox (this is the six "nights" in Genesis one) and the signs are Libra thru Pisces.
This is only the basic division of the year/world/generation and is constantly modified.
Libra (Saturn Day) was moved above to join Aries thru Libra and became the Arc/Ark of the Covenant with "God." This sacred seven is found in many tales.
This left Scorpio through Pisces symboling the evil season of winter aka sether (666). See Rev. 9.5, where the scorpion (Scorpio constellation) is the leader of the five months that can harm man (cold/hunger/darkness/sickness/etc....).
This scorpion in Rev 9.5, leads Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces.
One Roman calendar has Pisces as the last month of the year (sacred). This sign was depicted as having forty days (Lent) that leads us the the pass over from winter to spring. February was the month of purification.
Another calendar depicts the year divided into the trinity of winter (Sagittarius - Pisces), spring (Aries - Cancer), and summer (Leo - Scorpio). All three of these seasons begins with Jupiter/Fire (Sun). This trinity is aka Vishnu, Brahma, and Siva.
An excellent example is Isaiah 9.14-15, where Israel (summer) is depicted as having the head of the noble/royal lion (Leo) and tail of the liar (Scorpio). The "historical" Israel is made up of Leo, Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio.
@@kai_553 There are annihilationist articles you can read about those. It's hard for me to understand them (I just read them), but it could be just because I woke up not too long ago.
RethinkingHell says (paraphrasing and summarizing):
1. Undying worm refers to the maggots which consume the corpses of the wicked. The maggots do not die, but this does not mean that those who inhabit the corpses will not die. It's an allusion to the Old Testament.
2. The smoke of torment rising forever is an allusion to the book of Isaiah. In Isaiah 34:9-10, he wrote that the smoke of the Kingdom of Edom will go up forever. But clearly this couldn't have been "literally forever" because we would be able to still see the smoke of Edom TODAY. It more likely means that the destruction of Edom is forever-lasting, a one-and-done deal. And that works well with annihilationism.
@@unsightedmetal6857 thanks mate!
"How do we know that"
If he means how do we know that most people who have ever existed are bound for hell then Jesus stated it plainly.
"Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it."
What does God say about killing evil?
The edits, make sure to pay the editors
I like Franks teaching...IF the majority Reject grace His love Jesus...and the majority choose evil instead...thats justice. Now look at Gods actions..in the days of Noah the world was Full of immorality and sin..only Noah and his family were spared they in Gods eyes were righteous. Now if God wanted He could have destroyed or erased planet earth...But He didn’t He saw Noah's obedience. It Amazes me what God does when theres only One or two souls but their obedience their love for God...moves the Lord. He would save those little few in the mist of multitudes that choose evil.
Hey Frank? What did you fly in the Navy?
What version of "bible" is Frank talking about with Adolf is in the book of LUKE?
He never said Luke mentions Hitler. What Frank said is that Luke 12 contains the idea that some people will be punished more than others. Jesus mentions it specifically in verses 47-48.
An allmighty God wouldnt need the ripple effect to make the world running. What a terrible answer.
Sheol usually translated Hell or its equivalent in the Bible is the "under world or subterranean cave" (Gesenius Heb. Lex., p. 1022). Sheol, then, is the earth in winter, when the Sun appears among the southern constellations. This is the true meaning of Sheol, which corresponds to the Hades of the Greeks. "Hades is an intermediate state between death and resurrection” = between death and life; it is the earth's sleep. (See Smith's Bib. Dict., Art. Hell). Sheol includes Limbo, or the border of Hell farthest from the state of bliss = summer, where all of earth who have reaped the fruits.
The gate to Heaven aka spring equinox is guarded by a son of Jupiter aka Perseus. Gad, the tribe assigned to the Ram Constellation is copied from Fortuna, a daughter of Jupiter.
The gate to Hell is the autumn equinox and is left unguarded. There are several calendars used in the bible. One is where "Hell" consists of five signs and a good example is Revelation 9.5. The scorpion (Scorpio constellation) is the leader of Sagittarius (Fire/Jupiter), Capricorn (Earth/Vesta), Aquarius (Air/Juno), and Pisces (Water/Neptune). The three sons of Noah (Earth) are Shem (winter), Japheth (spring), and Ham (summer).
The three baptisms of Earth are Water (winter), Air (spring), and Fire (summer). The 12 signs make up the body of man (everyone) with the Ram as the head and the Fishes as the feet.