GREAT, GREAT video. There are few take aways I have. ONE (1). Buy your bow from a quality, reliable, knowledgeable dealer. TWO (2) there is nothing wrong with buying an entry level i.e. inexpensive bow. However expect a bow that is safe and reliable. THREE (3) If you buy a bow sight unseen from the internet or fly by night source you may have just thrown away good $$$$$$. CONCLUSION: Cavet Emptor, Let the buyer beware. This great video by Jake should be a warning to those interested in buying an entry level bow. An inexpensive, entry level bow should NOT be poorly made crap!
Agree whole heartedly! You can find decent quality budget gear that works quite well from reputable brands! Here is a prime example of a sub $160 riser which is cheaper than this POS I bought in this warning video… Sebastien Flute NEO Riser Review | Unboxing, Setup, Tuning and Scoring ua-cam.com/video/ugWqGAfyJuQ/v-deo.html
Make sure you have the right limbs bolts before assuming there is an issue. Also operator error on stripping out if you are not carefully assembling. The tbow riser I have is a high grade good concept Machined 7075 aircraft aluminum peice. Pretty much same weight as most comparable risers. I have a prior tbow ilf model. It shoots as good as some of the other take downs and customs I have. I would recommend for Any archer especially one on a Budget. We all do not get sponsored with gear. Hoyt will probably lose money to entry and middle level archers as it is a pretty decent bow. TOO BAD WHERE IT IS MADE....
I always recommend buying reputable brands and if buy used if you can't buy new. 5-year-old risers from Hoyt or Win & Win tend to keep their value too so they can resale the riser if they want to get new gear or stop archery and it won't be that expensive in the end.
I bought a second hand c10 year old, Wiawis Nano Max riser through a good archery retailer. It's really excellent quality (still used by Choi Mi-Sun world ranked 3rd and many others). There's absolutely no need to take the risk Jake is highlighting regardless of how skint you are.
The bigger problem is how inaccessible high end archery equipment is. It drives people who can't afford the higher end gear to imitations and knock offs for fear of being ridiculed over not having the latest gear.
People at my university shoot: WNS, Kinetic, Wiawis, Fivics, Hoyt (some shoot first hand, second shoot second hand), no one judges at all. It’s the scores and the skills as well as what medals you can bring back. One of the novices shot at the British University College Sports with a “core jet” bow borrowed from the university and did spectacularly. I understand that archery kit can be expensive. I am very privileged to have mine funded by the Worshipful Company of Fletcher’s Trust which supports disabled people in the UK. However before I was funded, I started off with a decent intermediate kit with some good qualify second hand sights and stabilisers. Sell my Bow is a good place to go for British folks. I started shooting in October 2021. I got my first riser in December 2021. I started competing in January 2022. I am this year’s ArcheryGB’s national disability championship gold medalist for recurve (30 meter category). Before I switch to a higher end kit, I was already getting a decent amount of medals and trophies. It’s the skill that counts. I spend the money on getting on buses and trains to competitions around the UK and meeting my coach (who I am very very lucky to coach me for free). I can’t afford a car. I am sorry to hear that some folks are being judge for their kit rather than how well they can shoot. Higher end kit helps but I am not that good yet to be getting 580 on a WA18 triple spot but that is on me not my kit.
I have the Tbow H7 and H9 risers. I checked my tiller bolt threaded bores and found no problems. Machine work is top notch and the threads are smooth. I'm really impressed with both of these risers. Rather than knocking a product why not contact the company and give them an opportunity to make it right. Every product can and has problems at times. Even Hoyt has a warranty for a reason. I do enjoy and appreciate your videos. I glean a lot of information from you but I think you were off with this video.
Loose fittings are common issues with Tbows, it is a lack of QC as well as shoddy manufacturing processes (what can you expect from knockoffs) that produce this issue. It is dangerous for beginner archers to purchase and shoot these bows, the responsibility lies with the manufacturer not to let such basic defects through. But well, if they’re already violating international IP law ig they have no reason to follow any QC or safety regulations…
@@jobagoat I have only put my hands on the two that I own and I would definitely purchase them again and would not shy away from recommending them. I can only compare them to compound bows that I see in local shops as far as the machine work goes and it looks as good as any of the high end compound bows on the shelf. None of our local shops carry recurve risers. My Tbows are definitely a step up from my old Hoyt TD4 riser. Take care.
I would take it a step further. I build one this year. If I bought another bow. Recurve I wouldn't buy anything but another t bow. I don't have that version. With that said. I doubt he got that bow that way. Don't know the guy but I'd guess he did this on purpose. If he didn't. Why not use his brain and call and get a new one. That's what he would do with other brands. Lol. Iv got quarter the money into a bow that's quarter the price as the best ones and is better.
The worrying thing is, that even if the thread tapping is within tolerance, you don't know what kind of rubbish is under that paint, because you could bet your last quid that any kind of metallurgical testing is non existant with these manufacturers and they're going to be riddled with air pockets. That's probably why they're so light.
Just going to add this for context, one of the better Barebow archers at my club (who has won competitions), shoots a Core Metal Bolt down riser and Easton Jazz arrows. Wanna get better at archery? Look in the mirror and commit to putting the work in. Don't give money to people who don't put the effort into their designs by cribbing someone else's homework, because they won't probably understand the nuances that make that design what it is.
I think you've hit the mark on this review. These bows do need to be built to a specification not only for satisfactory performance but most importantly for safety of the archery and everyone around them. That is obviously a defective bow. It's built to a sub-standard level which obviously had no QC check implemented post manufacturing. If it was strung up it could seriously hurt someone especially if they are new to the sport and don't have a mechanical aptitude which might alert them that this is an issue. Please don't overlook this message as it may not just be you who is on the line shooting when one of these blows up. Buying from reputable brands doesn't mean it has to be expensive. But it does afford you some peace of mind that they actually check that their design and product are going to be safe for the consumer. @ Jake. I did wonder why you didn't at least try to contact the manufacturer of the bow to at least give them the opportunity to make this right. Not saying it would excuse the obvious defect or the fact that that would reach the end user, but it would be the right thing to do.
Did you know these risers have a 6 month warranty. Second all metal bows before the hoyt radian were either sand cast or pressure cast risers and some broke . I believe jake received a bad riser other videos have been made of this riser and it performed without breaking. Check out CHN archery in China ask them about this riser and what the warranty is and there opinion is on this riser. I shot hoyt risers before cnc risers I had some brake and saw some ready to brake.
To anyone suggests Jake contacts with manufacturer and give them another opportunity: this is not the first knock off product this company made, they also have a knock off version of Hoyt Xceed, W&W ATF-X and some knock off version of Mathews’ products. They also paid people to promote their products on internet. Maybe it’s just for me but I don’t think a company like this is really care about quality of their products.
Do people know that even reputable american retailers rebrand chinese bows as their own. For example the Lancaster Exe Scream Trad ILF bow is actually the F261 made by Junxing. Steven Hann in Australia also sell these, but as the Junxing bow, no rebrand and to me more honest. Btw Junxing are the manufacturers of the ubiquitous Black Hunter.
I actually have the xceed model from this brand. (You talked about this with Ryan Bon i think). Mine does not have this problem with the tiller bolts. So i wonder if this is a fault in this model or just in this single riser. In any case, this brand is not all bad.
Typical. With copies you never know. You might be lucky or you might not. It’s a gamble. What you do know is that you get a cheap riser that looks like an expensive one and that it is a scam product that tries to make money of someone else’s work. There are plenty of cheap Chinese risers that are better for half the price of the rip-offs. I see no reason what so ever to buy the copies.
If I wanted to learn how to drive, even my dad teach me in his Toyota (And he did). I don't need a Ferrari and go to Michael Schumaker to learn. I have been using one Chinese bow for 3 years now. Gets me amazing accuracy at 20m. It's still holding strong. I appreciate your video, Mr. Kaminski, but I ain't looking to go to the Olympics and shoot from 70 meters. For some, buying a bow for 50-60 dollars is enough with $5 arrows. Not everyone can afford or need to spend $150 on a bow and get $50 arrows. Now that I am here and into it, I have put a Samick sage in my wishlist, but for the majority of the beginners, the price tags discourage them from even trying archery.
Hi Jake. Great content. Do you think it is time to check out some lesser known brands on your channel such as Decut, Topoint, Avalon, Kinetic, Galaxy (and other entry-level brands) since these are what most beginner archers would look at based on the price point? I know you reviews Sanlida before which is a Chinese brand and one of the more affordable options nowadays. Might as well be a resource when it comes to affordable equipment?
Salida was made as a Chinese higher end company for its target archers. Some Chinese archers have won world championships with the bows, but few others use the models becuse they do not sponsor archers outside of China. However these models are clones. Topoint is hit and miss with the Brand as the higher end stuff is not bad but TopArchery is a mistake sound alike to grab new archers more with the bow and arrow side of TopArchery.
@@caseysmith544 i get that sanlida is a great brand for its price. However, there are no proper reviews for other brands like how Jake does his GMX review (it's in-depth and tested really well). Decut is also decent and Lancaster carries it while as you said, Topoint is a hit and miss.
Never understand what anyone would knowingly buy a fake of anything. If you like a brand or product but find the price out of reach, buy a secondhand model . Just because something looks the same doesn’t mean it is
Issue with buying off brand item are usually with the quality of the product, customer service support and ethics. Off brand items are usually cheaper then reputable brand for sure. People would usually head for for the cheaper alternative of a similar item, But reputable brand are expensive due to R&D, salaries of employees, quality assurance, customer support services of product after purchases and of course profits. Off brand usually dont much of this, they dont have to do R&D for a riser they just copy existing design and make some minor changes. Quality wise is just a matter of luck and if luck is not on your side are you able to get a replacement from them is another issue. Last of course is ethics. If you can live with it, so be it.
Hi Jake, unfortunately also the original ones can have problems of tolerance. I had an original Xceed with the adjustament blocks and the related grains which loosening in their place. Moreover, tightening one of the upper grain it happened that it jumped out of the seat, although the fillet was perfectly intact, as if there were an excessive tolerance between screw and fillet. This was recognise by the "Dutch supplier", who proceeded with a replacement, but I'd knew about other Hoyt owners with the same problems, equally riser Made in PRC or USA. Plus recently I examined a Tbow Xceed and I found the same embarassing tolerances. Maybe there is a lack in design or in quality control, something that should rarely happen for such an important brand (and high-priced).
Not just cheap stuff! I had a top end 27" riser crack round the shelf. I reckon the next shot might have seen physical injury; fortunately the shot felt strange enough for me to look things over and I saw the crack... the manfacturer tried to wriggle out of their five year warranty too. It's a real shame as I love the riser; they eventually sent me a replacement that was slightly damaged 🙄 so poor product, poor customer care, I wouldn't buy another.
Unfortunately ordered one of these two weeks before this review.yes the limb bolts are not all that tight ,but the main concern was the limbs simply falling out.plumbers tape on bolts seems very firm .shot afew arrows and bottom limb came off. Drilled out tiller bolt hole in bow now seems ok .but like Jake said don't buy.
I did the same with Nika and bought some of their N3 limbs. They were so good I ordered uukhas the same week. Those guys also make a border tempest copy, which is absolute garbage aswell. I doubt their Oneida rip off will last long either.
I bought a brand new set of Nika N3. They looked good but I ran my fingers on the side of the limbs and there was rough spots as the carbon is laminated on the belly and back of the limb. Also I drew the limbs back and there was a big twist in the upper limb. At rest the limbs were centered. I had a hard time getting my money back
When buying off of Amazon QC is a real issue. They depend a lot on the end user to do that. Make sure you inspect all your equipment upon arrival so you have the return window open. I delt with this from one cheap bow that I absolutely love and was the third of this type I purchased. I exchanged it And got a good product. But the limb bolt must have had messed up threads because they were stripped. At $200 though I would just look into a shop that sells used bows and get one of those. Most shops even when selling on consignment will go through the bow make sure it's safe and of good quality or they won't sell it.
I knew that riser! Well, some Chinese companies do really knock-off some tried and tested models (looks like a Hoyt or Wiawis/Win&Win riser for me). But that tiller bolt could really cause you to be hit with the limbs painfully once it loses its hold on the threads.
Yes, and the TAOW brand has a Hoyt Satori Clone that works fine for about 95%--98% of the people if you do not get limbs past 45 pounds as 50 pounds is the max with the model due to the materials used, leading people to think all the bows this brand makes will be at least on part with 98% of the cheaper yet still quality bows of the PSE/Samic Nighthawk, Samic Sage type bow, or even the lower end of the Southwest Archery (SA) bows.
I do own a Chinese bow made by Junxing (the company that carries TAOW) tho its not an ILF compatible bow as it is a bolt-on takedown recurve. While their bolt on bows work really well, I would still choose Sanlida if I would want to get really serious with archery and start owning an ILF compatible riser.
Very odd. I have seen very expensive purchases that were packaged extremely poorly. Many items nowadays are branded by multiple vendors, even though they are the same exact product. And NOBODY has a manual worth the paper it is printed on. Buying a bow is hard now, with archery shops only selling a certain brand, or pushing customers to buy a flagship instead of an entry level bow within their skill level and budget. Recurves are nearly impossible. Buying a bow is nearly as bad as buying a car, sadly. We are then forced to buy cheaper products online, with less info. If i have to buy a set of bolts that fit, then bummer but so be it. I enjoy this channel, but a sample of 1 is not enough. However, it is good to inform people what could happen when you buy one...but show em how to resolve it...i.e. contact the seller or vendor or buy another set. We could fuss about the customer support, but that is a lost tradition. No shops have these in the USA so other online suppliers are where we go, from the biggest online retailer...because it is easy right or wrong. Sorry, but I cannot experiment with $1500, so i will buy the lesser versions and have had good luck. Great channel but we disagree on this instance.
Have you seen this review? Sebastien Flute NEO Riser Review | Unboxing, Setup, Tuning and Scoring ua-cam.com/video/ugWqGAfyJuQ/v-deo.html That bow is less than the piece I showed in the video we are commenting on.... Re the tiller bolts not fitting, the Guy who is claiming my tiller bolts are the wrong ones is dead wrong. He has no idea what I have here and I have confirmed that they are the correct sized bolts.... If I went up a size at all, they would be too large and wouldn't fit into the riser... This is flat out a QC issue with the worst manufacturing quality I have ever seen on any riser ever, at any price level. An archer can put their money to great use buying used gear, or entry level stuff from reputable companies for far less than the junk that this company and that the one retailer tries to sell...
Wonder if because the thread is recessed by the frame that was designed to improve rigidity causes it hard to align the threading drill explains why Hoyt also abandoned the idea after they also had bad fits done by someone who needs a bit more skill than simply banging a hole into a vice held flat plate.
Kinetic is a respectable brand for what they produce. It is used around the UK and it’s considered intermediate bow. However, another amazing made in the UK bow brand is Mybo, properly made and decent finish.
Great Video and Public Service Announcement! These have been popping up a lot lately and I’m glad you “reviewed”. Even the box looks like a knock off of the “unsaid” brand!
Thanks, I was actually considering some of the knock off brands because I now live on fixed income. I will save up and wait to make my purchase. I only shoot for the pure joy of archery and strive to improve my archery form on my own. With your video’s 😊
Go shill elsewhere! Any company can copy any bow out there. I have no allegiance to Hoyt. What I will call out is a direct safety hazard and call out unethical companies/practices.
@@CatMeow-fn9ko I tried a h7 exceed clone and it was like Jakes, so many issues I had it returned. Even the geometry was off, limb bolts loose, unable to lock the limb bolts because it was just a smashed stud inside, limb pocket issues and so many more. Insane take when WNS make good products for the same price or less that aren't just a 3d scan of someone elses hard work.
There are good options from brands like Kinetic, Galaxy, and WNS that are relatively affordable and of decent quality. WNS (sub-brand of W&W) in particular.
Unsure what country you are in but in the UK, you can rent a bow from Stylist for 4 GBPs a week. You can even exchange limbs and have stabilisers. They are good to borrow and you can use it until you go up to your final poundage. May be it’s time that some shops in the states or individuals do that for archers with limited income.
I think I know where you got them😂. It's actually really popular for the past months. But I tended to feel insecured about it. Thanks for the confirmation!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I will have to save for some real riser because that was my option until you told about the tiller, But I'm not in a hurry, I'll keep my Formula RX for a Little bit.
Having seen a few reviews of that brand I suspect you just got a really bad example but that doesn't excuse it either. If that tiller bolt slipped through whatever QC they have god knows what else gets through. If that's a cast riser it's probably got bubbles all through it. It would be good to get a machinist to cut it up so you can view the cross sections of the metal or get a metallurgist to run some tests on it if you're not sending it back for a refund. One of Australia's biggest online archery retailers are selling this brand sadly. I get why he's selling them because a lot of his customers are very price sensitive but at the same time he could be shooting himself in the foot if the bigger brands don't want him as a wholesaler / distributor or authorised reseller if he's willing to stock blatant IP knock offs too. My experience with the cheap Chinese brands like Topoint has been very hit or miss. Bought some magnetic recurve arrow rests and they were absolute junk. These days I typically buy the higher end gear for myself but for my daughters recurve which she shoots less than her longbow, I get WNS or the lower tier Fivics stuff. WNS & Fivics make some great reasonably priced no nonse stuff that just works reliably. When it comes to stuff that is machined (risers & sights particularity) you almost always get what you pay for, there's a reason that the expensive stuff is expensive, low tolerance machining is expensive to do.
If the online retailer you mention is the one I am thinking about, he is very upfront and honest in his assessments. I know that I have seen reviews where he has taken this company's failings in manufacturing of its bows for different clients who re-badge them to task. Particularly when the same model of bow, can have a differing quality from one badged client to another. I had taken this as a warning of "buyer beware" and know the reputation of the people you are buying from. So perhaps if people wish to buy from Chinese manufacturers, then deal direct.
I have an older satori clone tbow and it's not too bad. It handles my 54# elk hunting limbs. Am I proud of it? No. But it works fine. The newer model tbows must be much worse.
Any product can have a diffect.toyota,daimler, VW, have a serial msnufacture diffects. Same with Tbow.i have their border and satori hoyt copies and sstisfied
It would have been useful if you checked the riser threads using a name brand bolt. Also checking the questionable bolt in a name brand riser. It would also have been useful to see what support you recieved from the manufacturer.
@@jobagoat yes. I just saw. It is interesting. I have seen many junxing bows and the quality has been pretty good. Jake certainly got a bad one though.
I really appreciate you doing this. So many inexperienced archers or “influencer” channels will get products like this and rave about them, which perpetuates things. Even if you ignore the harm this does to the sport and industry on a macro level, no one should ignore the safety and quality issues.
Interesting. I've seen quite a few other very positive reviews for the TBow (Taow) recently. To the point that I was strongly considering one just a little while back. In my experience, the biggest issue with a lot of inexpensive Chinese products is in consistency of QC. Some units are good, and some are just total crap. They just tend to have very loose acceptable ranges in QC compared to more reputable companies that keep things much more consistent. Judging from your review, compared to many others I've seen on these, I'd say that you got a lemon, and some get an example that is good to go. Sort of a crap shoot I guess. So, if you do want to roll the dice, make sure the vendor has a good return policy!
I think the most likely thing is that the other reviews you are seeing are either bots or people that are getting paid to review it And give it positive feedback
@@basebilljr07 Possibly. Although, on second look, the one in this video looks NOTHING like the Tbow I've seen in the past, or the one I was considering. Now I'm wondering if this one is a counterfeit of a clone. Lots of counterfeits coming out of China. They prey on Chinese companies too... The one I'm referring to is a clone on the 19" Hoyt Satori, which the one above doesn't even resemble.
@@michaelc3416 Like he said in the video I wouldn't waste my money on that Chinese junk I would buy something Older that is used. It would probably still be better than the counterfeit Chinese crap
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I'll take your word for it. In fact, if memory serves, these are actually made by Junxing, that does in fact make quite a bit of archery equipment. But, when I did my research on the Tbow I only really looked into the 19" riser ILF model that is a clone of the Satori. Quite a bit about them on Archery Talk and other places. No one claims that they are direct competition with the Hoyt, but this is honestly the first time I've ran across anything bad about them. Even some that own both say that for a new archer on a budget, and that just wants to test the waters to see if the sport is for them without spending over a grand (like me), that the Tbow is a good place to start. The only one I'm familiar with is a 62" ILF, 19" riser and Gordon limbs. It's available for $179- shipped. And while I've never held one in my hand, every photo I've seen (not just manufacturer stock photos) they have actually looked like decent quality pieces. I hadn't touched a bow since college many years ago, but began considering it just for backyard plinking (is plinking a word in archery?? Haha) I just wanted to test the waters, see if it stuck, pick an inexpensive, low pull weight bow (25-35lbs) decent bow, set it up, and start working on my form. I do appreciate good equipment in every endeavor I undertake seriously. So, if it did stick, then I'd have no issue upgrading once I reached that level of wanting/needing superior equipment. And yes, I do get buying quality used gear, Unfortunately, that's not really feasible for many, depending on location. And realistically, spending well over a grand to get a full setup with arrows and all other accessories, just keeps a LOT of people from ever even trying the sport. Not saying the bow in your video is the answer, but there really IS a market for an inexpensive beginner recurve that could possibly lure more people in and help the sport grow. Unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to only be concerned with higher tech, higher performance, and higher prices, as that's were the profit is... BUT, that's not good for the long term growth of archery, IMO.
Shoots straight out of the box they said. Yeah, right into the trashcan. Got burnt by a known brand but not one that is popular in competition. Looked neat. It's useless. It was also glowingly endorsed by several youtube channels, not yours.
...Deerseeker isn't any better than Tbow... the eBay rip-off risers may look good, but they are ALL inferior when you actually shoot them...Samick has always had a good budget line, and are a quality company for the new archer...
100%. Yes, there may be a machining g error BUT where is the quality control? Who or what at the factory is putting the limb bolt into the riser? Who or what at the factory thinks that the limb bolt fit is good? YIKES!!
Yup, your advice about buying from “real manufacturers” who produce safe equipment is excellent. I’ve been shooting an economy SF Win & Win riser for 4-5 tears and never had a safety issue.
Another youtuber called "Archery Supplies" did a sort of response video to this in return. seemed it could have just been a few minor things. Not saying it's right but ultimately this same issue could happen to most brands I'd assume.
I watched this video and the "rebuttal", for lack of a better word, by Archery Supplies and I really do not think it's a nock-off issue or representative of the entire brand. Any time you buy a product there is risk of getting one that is defective and/or poorly packaged which is what I think happened here. In the case of something like a bow riser it could pose a risk to the buyer, but that does not mean every bow from that company poses a similar risk and I think Archery Supply makes a compelling case in that regard. Yes it is unethical to copy someone else's design. However, there are copyright laws against that so if they are not being sued one would have to assume it's legit - not cool...but legit.
Copyright laws are not international. And are unenforceable in China. Businesses that sue and successfully win may close that business entity down to just be opened back up under another name and then rinse and repeat.
Hi Jake, If you're looking for ideas for your videos: Could you do a video for plunger tuning for fat indoor arrows? If you could cover what to do with this tuning when the range distance is limited to indoor distances, that would be extremely helpful.
I'll let Jake the expert handle that but I just switched over from Easton A/C/E arrows outdoors to the Easton RX-7 fat shafts (arrows). I followed Jake's video on bare shaft tuning and then dynamic center shot out to 30 meters. Frankly the tuning is a pain, i.e. it takes time, but I think you will be happy with the results.
You dont use a torque wrench? 😂 If its only Aluminum it can be overtorqued and destroyed by hand. Question: Can you use Anti vibration locktite? That Blue stuff for screws not to come off easy? Im a noob Im curious.😂
We had the same limb bolt issue before. One batch had the wrong limb bolts. I would say Manufacturers have all had issues before. Pandarus the other day got me to check all one type of arrows- I did not have any with a issue. I recall a entire batch of Win and win limbs been recalled. I recall Bowtech recalling a bow. I recall Hoyt having issues. I recall Martin having issues. I recall Predator having issues. If Jake informed the manufacturer or the dealer - the problem would have been fixed.
@archerysupplieslonsdale this is not an improper sized tiller bolt... Can you tell me the specs of the tiller bolt thread and pitch that is supposed to be in this riser? I know what size should be in the riser based on the specs I have measured.... unless they make a custom M12.5x1.25 bolt for this bow. What actually happened is that the riser is WAY out of spec for the proper bolt size that was intended to go into the threaded area of the riser. Add into that, the tiller bolt itself was low and far out of spec for it's intended sizing. The OD of the threaded area itself was short by .35mm which when combined with the ID of the riser results in this very issue I have here..... This is a tolerance and quality control issue from a junk manufacture. This is not a typical failure in the least, and in no way comparable to a recollection when reputable manufactures do recalls.
Actually... most Chinese pros also feel ashamed about this company. This company was famous in China for its low quality. Yeah, it was even worse several years ago. Also, some funny things. Your video was shared to Chinese social media and recently several water armys appears in comments. They say TaoW (or Junxing in CN) is threatening Hoyt's sales and you are funded to have those videos to defame TaoW. LMAO Just want to share how shameless this company is. Trust me, most Chinese also hate this company. We also have some great archery brands and we also hope we can have a top-end brand like Hoyt and Wiawis in the future, but not those who only make cheap knockoffs.
HOYT use Chinese suppliers. Period. Their bows are not made in the US. That’s marketing BS and the biggest lie in archery. Chinese companies have a basic version of the bow they sell to the mass public. Their actual customers i.e HOYT and co., customise the bow to make it a higher spec and therefore try to justify a higher retail price point. Stop the lies.
Tell you what Jake, show me one actual recurve riser manufacturing video by HOYT and I’ll concede… All I see at the ‘factory’ is a warehouse full of bulk stock risers, bulk packaging boxes, spare parts and components, but limbs being made and sprayed… where are the recurve risers machined? I’m a shill on behalf of people who don’t want to get ripped off.
I've been at the factory in the machine shop and not just on their tour. Have you? Did you even watch my follow-up video showing how this POS riser is cast and not machined?
I have seen the very detailed myth-busting video you did explaining HOYT’s process (casting), quality control and ethics etc., but I don’t see any video actually showing the risers cast at the factory. Have I missed it? I even looked at HOYT’s videos and their website. And again, just to confirm, I’m only talking about recurve risers. Compared to MYBO (for example), where they actually have the videos showing risers being made in the UK, so their ‘Made in the UK’ statement holds up. I couldn’t give a monkeys about where the manufacturing is, but when you make those statements, then you need to be held accountable, as you are basing your entire brand message and pricing on that. Agree or not?
I thought my junxing f 261 was good,, advertise as 7075 alluminium. I sold it for a win @win black elk 21 " riser. I better check the tolerance on it as win@win had China making these risers.
It’s not an issue with things being made in China. It’s an issue with companies who make knock-offs. W&W still has pretty strict quality control on their products made in China. There’s no reason for knock-offs to care about the perception of their brand.
Making something in China isn't a problem as long as the QC is done properly. A company like W&W/WIAWIS has really strict QC standards. It doesn't matter where it is made, there are good and bad products coming from each and every country on earth.
Well your catching flack for telling the archery community buyers beware on another UA-cam channel. Why? because it affects sales of cheap chinese knockoffs! Buying knockoffs is the same as flushing your money! Stephen’s upset because he sells anything that chyna puts out there.
Yes I had to check mine after this video too. No issues. Hence the video two videos Im about to post on it. I had 3 phone calls on this video Friday. So now I have to spend the weekend testing while I should be shooting.
Ive got a T Bow H7 exceed clone. Ive had no issues with it and have used it for about a year Ive got other bows as well and it feels great to shoot 🤷🏻♂️
My t bow is better then all the other bows i got. Im all for buying good anerican made shit. Most american made shit is trash now. So you would be stupid not to buy a t bow. I shot my tbow over 300 shots this weekend.
Wow. 100 times worse tolerance than my cheap core jet, (rebranded sanlida tangzong recurve). My limb bolt almost has to little clearance. They squeak slightly when I screw them on. I should probably apply some string wax on the bolts.
You have just lost a nice portion of your worldwide credibility with this video. On the other hand you have satisfied you preferred supplier. I hope they payed you well for your unqualified comments about this riser. The USA is producing in China like all the others. They are teaching the Chinese how to do it and their products are improving from day to day. It looks like the Chinese are much more clever than some USA based companies have anticipated. Is it some sort US-patriotism to purchase a so called US-product produced in China than buying direct a similar product in China? Have you watched the same product review from your colleague in Australia? If not you better do.
You have no idea what you are talking about. I’m putting out an explanation video later that clearly shows this bow was not produced in China to be sold in the USA as the USA branded bow. The other channel may allude to that, but it’s a lie and I prove it… watch my video that comes out next. As far as satisfying my preferred supplier, I have none and I have no allegiance to anyone other than the general archer who is unsuspecting and risks severe injury or a loss of hard earned money. Have a nice day!
@@JakeKaminskiArcheryI have had a nice day with my tbow equipment (barebow) on the archery range shooting best score in field archery (342) You second review is much more qualified, that is like J. Kaminski!
GREAT, GREAT video. There are few take aways I have. ONE (1). Buy your bow from a quality, reliable, knowledgeable dealer. TWO (2) there is nothing wrong with buying an entry level i.e. inexpensive bow. However expect a bow that is safe and reliable. THREE (3) If you buy a bow sight unseen from the internet or fly by night source you may have just thrown away good $$$$$$. CONCLUSION: Cavet Emptor, Let the buyer beware. This great video by Jake should be a warning to those interested in buying an entry level bow. An inexpensive, entry level bow should NOT be poorly made crap!
Agree whole heartedly! You can find decent quality budget gear that works quite well from reputable brands!
Here is a prime example of a sub $160 riser which is cheaper than this POS I bought in this warning video…
Sebastien Flute NEO Riser Review | Unboxing, Setup, Tuning and Scoring
ua-cam.com/video/ugWqGAfyJuQ/v-deo.html
Make sure it comes with the right tiller bolts too...
That's the job of the company, not the consumer who is buying their first bow.
Agreed, but sometimes mistakes are made, doesnt mean all the bows are a POS as you stated...@@JakeKaminskiArchery
Make sure you have the right limbs bolts before assuming there is an issue. Also operator error on stripping out if you are not carefully assembling. The tbow riser I have is a high grade good concept Machined 7075 aircraft aluminum peice. Pretty much same weight as most comparable risers.
I have a prior tbow ilf model.
It shoots as good as some of the other take downs and customs I have. I would recommend for Any archer especially one on a Budget.
We all do not get sponsored with gear. Hoyt will probably lose money to entry and middle level archers as it is a pretty decent bow.
TOO BAD WHERE IT IS MADE....
See Archery Supplies Australia’s response …. Very interesting !
I always recommend buying reputable brands and if buy used if you can't buy new. 5-year-old risers from Hoyt or Win & Win tend to keep their value too so they can resale the riser if they want to get new gear or stop archery and it won't be that expensive in the end.
I bought a second hand c10 year old, Wiawis Nano Max riser through a good archery retailer. It's really excellent quality (still used by Choi Mi-Sun world ranked 3rd and many others). There's absolutely no need to take the risk Jake is highlighting regardless of how skint you are.
That's what I do buy 2nd hand makes no difference to me the way I shoot
The bigger problem is how inaccessible high end archery equipment is. It drives people who can't afford the higher end gear to imitations and knock offs for fear of being ridiculed over not having the latest gear.
I think that's more a cultural issue than an inaccessibility issue... You don't need the latest and greatest to shoot the best scores.
I hear you but that logic isn't quite there... Someone want the latest/greatest and fanciest and will buy a knock-off instead?
People at my university shoot: WNS, Kinetic, Wiawis, Fivics, Hoyt (some shoot first hand, second shoot second hand), no one judges at all. It’s the scores and the skills as well as what medals you can bring back. One of the novices shot at the British University College Sports with a “core jet” bow borrowed from the university and did spectacularly.
I understand that archery kit can be expensive. I am very privileged to have mine funded by the Worshipful Company of Fletcher’s Trust which supports disabled people in the UK. However before I was funded, I started off with a decent intermediate kit with some good qualify second hand sights and stabilisers. Sell my Bow is a good place to go for British folks.
I started shooting in October 2021. I got my first riser in December 2021. I started competing in January 2022. I am this year’s ArcheryGB’s national disability championship gold medalist for recurve (30 meter category). Before I switch to a higher end kit, I was already getting a decent amount of medals and trophies.
It’s the skill that counts. I spend the money on getting on buses and trains to competitions around the UK and meeting my coach (who I am very very lucky to coach me for free). I can’t afford a car.
I am sorry to hear that some folks are being judge for their kit rather than how well they can shoot. Higher end kit helps but I am not that good yet to be getting 580 on a WA18 triple spot but that is on me not my kit.
just tossing this out there, the clones/knock off risers cost the same as solid entry/lower-mid level risers from reputable manufacturers
If you feared of being ridiculed for not having the latest gear, it means you have a serious inferiority complex issue within.
I have the Tbow H7 and H9 risers. I checked my tiller bolt threaded bores and found no problems. Machine work is top notch and the threads are smooth. I'm really impressed with both of these risers. Rather than knocking a product why not contact the company and give them an opportunity to make it right. Every product can and has problems at times. Even Hoyt has a warranty for a reason.
I do enjoy and appreciate your videos. I glean a lot of information from you but I think you were off with this video.
Loose fittings are common issues with Tbows, it is a lack of QC as well as shoddy manufacturing processes (what can you expect from knockoffs) that produce this issue. It is dangerous for beginner archers to purchase and shoot these bows, the responsibility lies with the manufacturer not to let such basic defects through. But well, if they’re already violating international IP law ig they have no reason to follow any QC or safety regulations…
@@jobagoat How many Tbows do you own or have put your hands on?
@@dannyhembree1312 Have seen and inspected 3 in person
@@jobagoat I have only put my hands on the two that I own and I would definitely purchase them again and would not shy away from recommending them. I can only compare them to compound bows that I see in local shops as far as the machine work goes and it looks as good as any of the high end compound bows on the shelf. None of our local shops carry recurve risers. My Tbows are definitely a step up from my old Hoyt TD4 riser. Take care.
I would take it a step further. I build one this year. If I bought another bow. Recurve I wouldn't buy anything but another t bow. I don't have that version. With that said. I doubt he got that bow that way. Don't know the guy but I'd guess he did this on purpose. If he didn't. Why not use his brain and call and get a new one. That's what he would do with other brands. Lol. Iv got quarter the money into a bow that's quarter the price as the best ones and is better.
That is bloody terrifying
The worrying thing is, that even if the thread tapping is within tolerance, you don't know what kind of rubbish is under that paint, because you could bet your last quid that any kind of metallurgical testing is non existant with these manufacturers and they're going to be riddled with air pockets. That's probably why they're so light.
The Powdercoat is extremely poor and full of porosity suggesting out gassing from pre-casting or poor prep.
Just going to add this for context, one of the better Barebow archers at my club (who has won competitions), shoots a Core Metal Bolt down riser and Easton Jazz arrows.
Wanna get better at archery? Look in the mirror and commit to putting the work in.
Don't give money to people who don't put the effort into their designs by cribbing someone else's homework, because they won't probably understand the nuances that make that design what it is.
I think you've hit the mark on this review. These bows do need to be built to a specification not only for satisfactory performance but most importantly for safety of the archery and everyone around them. That is obviously a defective bow. It's built to a sub-standard level which obviously had no QC check implemented post manufacturing. If it was strung up it could seriously hurt someone especially if they are new to the sport and don't have a mechanical aptitude which might alert them that this is an issue. Please don't overlook this message as it may not just be you who is on the line shooting when one of these blows up. Buying from reputable brands doesn't mean it has to be expensive. But it does afford you some peace of mind that they actually check that their design and product are going to be safe for the consumer. @ Jake. I did wonder why you didn't at least try to contact the manufacturer of the bow to at least give them the opportunity to make this right. Not saying it would excuse the obvious defect or the fact that that would reach the end user, but it would be the right thing to do.
Did you know these risers have a 6 month warranty. Second all metal bows before the hoyt radian were either sand cast or pressure cast risers and some broke . I believe jake received a bad riser other videos have been made of this riser and it performed without breaking. Check out CHN archery in China ask them about this riser and what the warranty is and there opinion is on this riser. I shot hoyt risers before cnc risers I had some brake and saw some ready to brake.
Great video Jake, thanks for sharing.
it'd be good to put together a budget set up for people as an example to show people that they don't have to make these mistakes
To anyone suggests Jake contacts with manufacturer and give them another opportunity: this is not the first knock off product this company made, they also have a knock off version of Hoyt Xceed, W&W ATF-X and some knock off version of Mathews’ products. They also paid people to promote their products on internet. Maybe it’s just for me but I don’t think a company like this is really care about quality of their products.
I am very happy with my Win and Vin riser. It works very well with my Hogt limbs.
Do people know that even reputable american retailers rebrand chinese bows as their own. For example the Lancaster Exe Scream Trad ILF bow is actually the F261 made by Junxing. Steven Hann in Australia also sell these, but as the Junxing bow, no rebrand and to me more honest. Btw Junxing are the manufacturers of the ubiquitous Black Hunter.
I love the bow throw at the end. The only reasonable thing to do with these knockoffs.
I actually have the xceed model from this brand. (You talked about this with Ryan Bon i think).
Mine does not have this problem with the tiller bolts. So i wonder if this is a fault in this model or just in this single riser. In any case, this brand is not all bad.
Typical. With copies you never know. You might be lucky or you might not. It’s a gamble. What you do know is that you get a cheap riser that looks like an expensive one and that it is a scam product that tries to make money of someone else’s work. There are plenty of cheap Chinese risers that are better for half the price of the rip-offs. I see no reason what so ever to buy the copies.
If I wanted to learn how to drive, even my dad teach me in his Toyota (And he did). I don't need a Ferrari and go to Michael Schumaker to learn.
I have been using one Chinese bow for 3 years now. Gets me amazing accuracy at 20m. It's still holding strong. I appreciate your video, Mr. Kaminski, but I ain't looking to go to the Olympics and shoot from 70 meters.
For some, buying a bow for 50-60 dollars is enough with $5 arrows. Not everyone can afford or need to spend $150 on a bow and get $50 arrows.
Now that I am here and into it, I have put a Samick sage in my wishlist, but for the majority of the beginners, the price tags discourage them from even trying archery.
This riser was a $200 knock off, not a $50 bow...
@@JakeKaminskiArchery. I shot my tbow over 300 shots this weekend. Iv seen 10 or more of them. Iv never seen one with tiller bolt issues.
I have that exact riser and I love it. It defiantly hasn’t got any of these issues.
the tiller bolts are wrong, the oval hole on the riser is not.
they selling these risers only in Australia $290.00
ua-cam.com/video/Q7xQ_MraVxU/v-deo.html
Hi Jake. Great content. Do you think it is time to check out some lesser known brands on your channel such as Decut, Topoint, Avalon, Kinetic, Galaxy (and other entry-level brands) since these are what most beginner archers would look at based on the price point? I know you reviews Sanlida before which is a Chinese brand and one of the more affordable options nowadays. Might as well be a resource when it comes to affordable equipment?
It is and has been time for sure. I’ll be purchasing these on my own to review as time goes on.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Thanks! For sure there'll be a lot of archers waiting for expert opinion on these brands.
I have used a Galaxy riser for 6 months and i loved it. My club has a couple of them as practice bows, and they serve new archers very well
Salida was made as a Chinese higher end company for its target archers. Some Chinese archers have won world championships with the bows, but few others use the models becuse they do not sponsor archers outside of China. However these models are clones. Topoint is hit and miss with the Brand as the higher end stuff is not bad but TopArchery is a mistake sound alike to grab new archers more with the bow and arrow side of TopArchery.
@@caseysmith544 i get that sanlida is a great brand for its price. However, there are no proper reviews for other brands like how Jake does his GMX review (it's in-depth and tested really well). Decut is also decent and Lancaster carries it while as you said, Topoint is a hit and miss.
Buy used high quality, most reputable and experienced archers take care of their stuff and you’ll save $$$
Never understand what anyone would knowingly buy a fake of anything. If you like a brand or product but find the price out of reach, buy a secondhand model . Just because something looks the same doesn’t mean it is
Issue with buying off brand item are usually with the quality of the product, customer service support and ethics.
Off brand items are usually cheaper then reputable brand for sure. People would usually head for for the cheaper alternative of a similar item, But reputable brand are expensive due to R&D, salaries of employees, quality assurance, customer support services of product after purchases and of course profits. Off brand usually dont much of this, they dont have to do R&D for a riser they just copy existing design and make some minor changes. Quality wise is just a matter of luck and if luck is not on your side are you able to get a replacement from them is another issue. Last of course is ethics. If you can live with it, so be it.
Bravo Jake. Thanks for your advice, I've shared on my FB account for Australian archers 👍
Great video! Thank You!
I did not expect that the quality is THAT low.. 😮 I am happy with my original Hoyt Satori.
Great job Jake!
Hi Jake, unfortunately also the original ones can have problems of tolerance. I had an original Xceed with the adjustament blocks and the related grains which loosening in their place. Moreover, tightening one of the upper grain it happened that it jumped out of the seat, although the fillet was perfectly intact, as if there were an excessive tolerance between screw and fillet. This was recognise by the "Dutch supplier", who proceeded with a replacement, but I'd knew about other Hoyt owners with the same problems, equally riser Made in PRC or USA.
Plus recently I examined a Tbow Xceed and I found the same embarassing tolerances.
Maybe there is a lack in design or in quality control, something that should rarely happen for such an important brand (and high-priced).
Hoyts are trash, all they offer is just brandname.
转发军兴官方回复：
看到这个视频反馈以后，我们第一时间组织人员检查了库存的所有同款弓把，没有发现视频上所展示的这种情况，后来我们找来了原装的霍伊特弓把大螺丝，经过测试，霍伊特原装的大螺丝可以拧到我们的弓把上面，并且也像视频里面的那样间隙晃动都很大，经检查，霍伊特的大螺丝螺纹规格是公制细牙的M12×1.25，而我们大螺丝是英制的1/2-20，它的直径相当于12.7mm，比公制的M12大0.7mm，螺距是1.27mm，和公制的1.25mm螺距接近，所以说出现了M12×1.25公制螺栓可以拧到英制1/2-20的内螺纹里面的情况。
但是我们公司的这款弓把从来没有采用过公制M12×1.25的大螺丝，售后方面也从没有接到过这方面的投诉，不知为何出现视频里面的这种情况，所以目前在检查了自己的库存螺丝没发现异常以后，还正在联系配件供应商检查是否有生产过公制M12×1.25大螺丝的情况。
对于弓把问题给用户带来不好的体验，在此我们表示深切的歉意，各位弓友如果有购买我们的同款弓把并出现和视频里面相同情况的，联系我们售后人员，我们一定会以最快的速度给予解决。
Not just cheap stuff! I had a top end 27" riser crack round the shelf. I reckon the next shot might have seen physical injury; fortunately the shot felt strange enough for me to look things over and I saw the crack... the manfacturer tried to wriggle out of their five year warranty too. It's a real shame as I love the riser; they eventually sent me a replacement that was slightly damaged 🙄 so poor product, poor customer care, I wouldn't buy another.
I would always try to buy an used bow instead of this, they shoot as good as you will ever shoot in most cases
What about the Samick ILF riser I thought that might be decent risers but now I don’t know
Unfortunately ordered one of these two weeks before this review.yes the limb bolts are not all that tight ,but the main concern was the limbs simply falling out.plumbers tape on bolts seems very firm .shot afew arrows and bottom limb came off. Drilled out tiller bolt hole in bow now seems ok .but like Jake said don't buy.
WOW, that was a GREAT demonstration @3:50 and @5:00 of how badly machined that riser is! Excellent demo and proof of why it's dangerous.
I did the same with Nika and bought some of their N3 limbs. They were so good I ordered uukhas the same week.
Those guys also make a border tempest copy, which is absolute garbage aswell. I doubt their Oneida rip off will last long either.
I bought a brand new set of Nika N3. They looked good but I ran my fingers on the side of the limbs and there was rough spots as the carbon is laminated on the belly and back of the limb. Also I drew the limbs back and there was a big twist in the upper limb. At rest the limbs were centered. I had a hard time getting my money back
Same ripoff of the Onida is sold by Muzzy who sell a no cam leverbow that sucks on so many levels.
$800 for WinWin ATF vs $160 knock off ATF….. it will be painful; but, I’ll pay the $800 for the ATF.
I was looking at those today. Thank you
Gosh... Thanks a lot Jake, that brand is somehow getting popular in my country. I hope more people get educated by this video.
When buying off of Amazon QC is a real issue. They depend a lot on the end user to do that. Make sure you inspect all your equipment upon arrival so you have the return window open. I delt with this from one cheap bow that I absolutely love and was the third of this type I purchased. I exchanged it And got a good product. But the limb bolt must have had messed up threads because they were stripped. At $200 though I would just look into a shop that sells used bows and get one of those. Most shops even when selling on consignment will go through the bow make sure it's safe and of good quality or they won't sell it.
I knew that riser! Well, some Chinese companies do really knock-off some tried and tested models (looks like a Hoyt or Wiawis/Win&Win riser for me). But that tiller bolt could really cause you to be hit with the limbs painfully once it loses its hold on the threads.
Yes, and the TAOW brand has a Hoyt Satori Clone that works fine for about 95%--98% of the people if you do not get limbs past 45 pounds as 50 pounds is the max with the model due to the materials used, leading people to think all the bows this brand makes will be at least on part with 98% of the cheaper yet still quality bows of the PSE/Samic Nighthawk, Samic Sage type bow, or even the lower end of the Southwest Archery (SA) bows.
I do own a Chinese bow made by Junxing (the company that carries TAOW) tho its not an ILF compatible bow as it is a bolt-on takedown recurve. While their bolt on bows work really well, I would still choose Sanlida if I would want to get really serious with archery and start owning an ILF compatible riser.
Very odd. I have seen very expensive purchases that were packaged extremely poorly. Many items nowadays are branded by multiple vendors, even though they are the same exact product.
And NOBODY has a manual worth the paper it is printed on.
Buying a bow is hard now, with archery shops only selling a certain brand, or pushing customers to buy a flagship instead of an entry level bow within their skill level and budget. Recurves are nearly impossible.
Buying a bow is nearly as bad as buying a car, sadly.
We are then forced to buy cheaper products online, with less info.
If i have to buy a set of bolts that fit, then bummer but so be it.
I enjoy this channel, but a sample of 1 is not enough.
However, it is good to inform people what could happen when you buy one...but show em how to resolve it...i.e. contact the seller or vendor or buy another set. We could fuss about the customer support, but that is a lost tradition.
No shops have these in the USA so other online suppliers are where we go, from the biggest online retailer...because it is easy right or wrong.
Sorry, but I cannot experiment with $1500, so i will buy the lesser versions and have had good luck.
Great channel but we disagree on this instance.
Have you seen this review?
Sebastien Flute NEO Riser Review | Unboxing, Setup, Tuning and Scoring
ua-cam.com/video/ugWqGAfyJuQ/v-deo.html
That bow is less than the piece I showed in the video we are commenting on....
Re the tiller bolts not fitting, the Guy who is claiming my tiller bolts are the wrong ones is dead wrong. He has no idea what I have here and I have confirmed that they are the correct sized bolts.... If I went up a size at all, they would be too large and wouldn't fit into the riser... This is flat out a QC issue with the worst manufacturing quality I have ever seen on any riser ever, at any price level.
An archer can put their money to great use buying used gear, or entry level stuff from reputable companies for far less than the junk that this company and that the one retailer tries to sell...
@@JakeKaminskiArchery no, but i will. Thank you.
Wonder if because the thread is recessed by the frame that was designed to improve rigidity causes it hard to align the threading drill explains why Hoyt also abandoned the idea after they also had bad fits done by someone who needs a bit more skill than simply banging a hole into a vice held flat plate.
Kinetic bows are sold in several Europe stores. I think they might be good
Kinetic is quite good!
Valenz is a perfectly serviceable riser
Kinetic is a respectable brand for what they produce. It is used around the UK and it’s considered intermediate bow. However, another amazing made in the UK bow brand is Mybo, properly made and decent finish.
Great Video and Public Service Announcement! These have been popping up a lot lately and I’m glad you “reviewed”. Even the box looks like a knock off of the “unsaid” brand!
thanks for that video! just what I was looking for
Thanks, I was actually considering some of the knock off brands because I now live on fixed income. I will save up and wait to make my purchase. I only shoot for the pure joy of archery and strive to improve my archery form on my own. With your video’s 😊
Don't bother. Jake is just being ignorant that Chinese made bows can copy a Hoyt.
Go shill elsewhere!
Any company can copy any bow out there. I have no allegiance to Hoyt. What I will call out is a direct safety hazard and call out unethical companies/practices.
@@CatMeow-fn9ko I tried a h7 exceed clone and it was like Jakes, so many issues I had it returned. Even the geometry was off, limb bolts loose, unable to lock the limb bolts because it was just a smashed stud inside, limb pocket issues and so many more. Insane take when WNS make good products for the same price or less that aren't just a 3d scan of someone elses hard work.
There are good options from brands like Kinetic, Galaxy, and WNS that are relatively affordable and of decent quality. WNS (sub-brand of W&W) in particular.
Unsure what country you are in but in the UK, you can rent a bow from Stylist for 4 GBPs a week. You can even exchange limbs and have stabilisers. They are good to borrow and you can use it until you go up to your final poundage. May be it’s time that some shops in the states or individuals do that for archers with limited income.
Seems like a great combo for the force curve setup you have. Blow that thing up for UA-cam views!
i once saw someone shooting a knock-off Hoyt Xceed and i was todally confused.
I think I know where you got them😂. It's actually really popular for the past months. But I tended to feel insecured about it. Thanks for the confirmation!
Not to be Penny-wise, pound-foolish this is a good lesson for me. 🤑🤑🤑🤑
is topoint ok.
There seems to be a lot of knock off arrows being marketed too. Might be useful to have an unbiased review of some of those
Thank God I asked in the Gmx video.
Thank god for your stupidity in trusting and believing everything this so called Olympic champion says?
Shill getting angry and frustrated I see.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I will have to save for some real riser because that was my option until you told about the tiller, But I'm not in a hurry, I'll keep my Formula RX for a Little bit.
Having seen a few reviews of that brand I suspect you just got a really bad example but that doesn't excuse it either. If that tiller bolt slipped through whatever QC they have god knows what else gets through. If that's a cast riser it's probably got bubbles all through it. It would be good to get a machinist to cut it up so you can view the cross sections of the metal or get a metallurgist to run some tests on it if you're not sending it back for a refund. One of Australia's biggest online archery retailers are selling this brand sadly. I get why he's selling them because a lot of his customers are very price sensitive but at the same time he could be shooting himself in the foot if the bigger brands don't want him as a wholesaler / distributor or authorised reseller if he's willing to stock blatant IP knock offs too. My experience with the cheap Chinese brands like Topoint has been very hit or miss. Bought some magnetic recurve arrow rests and they were absolute junk. These days I typically buy the higher end gear for myself but for my daughters recurve which she shoots less than her longbow, I get WNS or the lower tier Fivics stuff. WNS & Fivics make some great reasonably priced no nonse stuff that just works reliably. When it comes to stuff that is machined (risers & sights particularity) you almost always get what you pay for, there's a reason that the expensive stuff is expensive, low tolerance machining is expensive to do.
If the online retailer you mention is the one I am thinking about, he is very upfront and honest in his assessments. I know that I have seen reviews where he has taken this company's failings in manufacturing of its bows for different clients who re-badge them to task. Particularly when the same model of bow, can have a differing quality from one badged client to another.
I had taken this as a warning of "buyer beware" and know the reputation of the people you are buying from.
So perhaps if people wish to buy from Chinese manufacturers, then deal direct.
I have an older satori clone tbow and it's not too bad. It handles my 54# elk hunting limbs. Am I proud of it? No. But it works fine. The newer model tbows must be much worse.
You should try the topoint endeavor R10 because its pretty heavy and accurate considering its a beginner bow
Any product can have a diffect.toyota,daimler, VW, have a serial msnufacture diffects. Same with Tbow.i have their border and satori hoyt copies and sstisfied
It would have been useful if you checked the riser threads using a name brand bolt. Also checking the questionable bolt in a name brand riser.
It would also have been useful to see what support you recieved from the manufacturer.
He does this in the new video.
@@jobagoat yes. I just saw. It is interesting. I have seen many junxing bows and the quality has been pretty good. Jake certainly got a bad one though.
I really appreciate you doing this. So many inexperienced archers or “influencer” channels will get products like this and rave about them, which perpetuates things. Even if you ignore the harm this does to the sport and industry on a macro level, no one should ignore the safety and quality issues.
You should have returned it - or use some silicon tape to make the screw stop wobble.
Interesting. I've seen quite a few other very positive reviews for the TBow (Taow) recently. To the point that I was strongly considering one just a little while back. In my experience, the biggest issue with a lot of inexpensive Chinese products is in consistency of QC. Some units are good, and some are just total crap. They just tend to have very loose acceptable ranges in QC compared to more reputable companies that keep things much more consistent. Judging from your review, compared to many others I've seen on these, I'd say that you got a lemon, and some get an example that is good to go. Sort of a crap shoot I guess. So, if you do want to roll the dice, make sure the vendor has a good return policy!
I think the most likely thing is that the other reviews you are seeing are either bots or people that are getting paid to review it And give it positive feedback
@@basebilljr07 Possibly. Although, on second look, the one in this video looks NOTHING like the Tbow I've seen in the past, or the one I was considering. Now I'm wondering if this one is a counterfeit of a clone. Lots of counterfeits coming out of China. They prey on Chinese companies too...
The one I'm referring to is a clone on the 19" Hoyt Satori, which the one above doesn't even resemble.
@@michaelc3416 Like he said in the video I wouldn't waste my money on that Chinese junk I would buy something Older that is used. It would probably still be better than the counterfeit Chinese crap
@michaelc3416 this company has many different copy’s of different bows out there.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I'll take your word for it. In fact, if memory serves, these are actually made by Junxing, that does in fact make quite a bit of archery equipment. But, when I did my research on the Tbow I only really looked into the 19" riser ILF model that is a clone of the Satori. Quite a bit about them on Archery Talk and other places. No one claims that they are direct competition with the Hoyt, but this is honestly the first time I've ran across anything bad about them. Even some that own both say that for a new archer on a budget, and that just wants to test the waters to see if the sport is for them without spending over a grand (like me), that the Tbow is a good place to start. The only one I'm familiar with is a 62" ILF, 19" riser and Gordon limbs. It's available for $179- shipped. And while I've never held one in my hand, every photo I've seen (not just manufacturer stock photos) they have actually looked like decent quality pieces. I hadn't touched a bow since college many years ago, but began considering it just for backyard plinking (is plinking a word in archery?? Haha) I just wanted to test the waters, see if it stuck, pick an inexpensive, low pull weight bow (25-35lbs) decent bow, set it up, and start working on my form. I do appreciate good equipment in every endeavor I undertake seriously. So, if it did stick, then I'd have no issue upgrading once I reached that level of wanting/needing superior equipment. And yes, I do get buying quality used gear, Unfortunately, that's not really feasible for many, depending on location. And realistically, spending well over a grand to get a full setup with arrows and all other accessories, just keeps a LOT of people from ever even trying the sport. Not saying the bow in your video is the answer, but there really IS a market for an inexpensive beginner recurve that could possibly lure more people in and help the sport grow. Unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to only be concerned with higher tech, higher performance, and higher prices, as that's were the profit is... BUT, that's not good for the long term growth of archery, IMO.
Shoots straight out of the box they said. Yeah, right into the trashcan.
Got burnt by a known brand but not one that is popular in competition.
Looked neat. It's useless.
It was also glowingly endorsed by several youtube channels, not yours.
I'm curious: which brand?
...Deerseeker isn't any better than Tbow... the eBay rip-off risers may look good, but they are ALL inferior when you actually shoot them...Samick has always had a good budget line, and are a quality company for the new archer...
To me It depends on the Knockoff model of bow/riser and how it is used. Some are good most are bad.
Wow, the companies putting stuff like this out are shameless.
And those who distribute it are even worse!
100%. Yes, there may be a machining g error BUT where is the quality control? Who or what at the factory is putting the limb bolt into the riser? Who or what at the factory thinks that the limb bolt fit is good? YIKES!!
Just saved me about 400 bucks thank you 🙏
Yup, your advice about buying from “real manufacturers” who produce safe equipment is excellent. I’ve been shooting an economy SF Win & Win riser for 4-5 tears and never had a safety issue.
Wns, samick,kinetic, cartel, sanlida,epic fusion, akusta,stark, mybo, fivics krossen etc. Sturdy cast or cnc. Trusted brands
Me too, more than 3 years i shoot wns premium Carbon wood core, never had any issue. Well made limbs
Not everyone is rich. Not everyone can afford these “reputable” brands. If it wasn’t for these knockoffs, I couldn’t afford to get into archery.
Funny thing is this knockoff is more expensive than a reputable brand…. And those reputable brands beginner bow is higher quality
@ a Sanlida is exponentially more expensive than a top archery ILF.
Yeah, whatever that riser is that one is pretty scary
Love this. Seriously considered buying one as my first ilf bow for hunting because another channel I watch shoots one. Glad I got the Samick instead!
Thanks
Another youtuber called "Archery Supplies" did a sort of response video to this in return. seemed it could have just been a few minor things.
Not saying it's right but ultimately this same issue could happen to most brands I'd assume.
Did you see my response to his video? ua-cam.com/video/Q7xQ_MraVxU/v-deo.html
Thanks Jake. Great video and a great example of some of the stuff that is out there from low integrity suppliers.
Did you try to resolve the issue with customer support? I have friends with these bows and they say the customer support has been great.
I watched this video and the "rebuttal", for lack of a better word, by Archery Supplies and I really do not think it's a nock-off issue or representative of the entire brand. Any time you buy a product there is risk of getting one that is defective and/or poorly packaged which is what I think happened here. In the case of something like a bow riser it could pose a risk to the buyer, but that does not mean every bow from that company poses a similar risk and I think Archery Supply makes a compelling case in that regard. Yes it is unethical to copy someone else's design. However, there are copyright laws against that so if they are not being sued one would have to assume it's legit - not cool...but legit.
Copyright laws are not international. And are unenforceable in China. Businesses that sue and successfully win may close that business entity down to just be opened back up under another name and then rinse and repeat.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Fair enough
Hi Jake,
If you're looking for ideas for your videos:
Could you do a video for plunger tuning for fat indoor arrows? If you could cover what to do with this tuning when the range distance is limited to indoor distances, that would be extremely helpful.
I'll let Jake the expert handle that but I just switched over from Easton A/C/E arrows outdoors to the Easton RX-7 fat shafts (arrows). I followed Jake's video on bare shaft tuning and then dynamic center shot out to 30 meters. Frankly the tuning is a pain, i.e. it takes time, but I think you will be happy with the results.
@@maxschell8823 I've already done all of that but button tuning for indoors isn't something I've heard anything about. Thank you your reply though!
you know that tapbow is knocked off "again" in china by other factories as well.
You dont use a torque wrench? 😂 If its only Aluminum it can be overtorqued and destroyed by hand.
Question: Can you use Anti vibration locktite? That Blue stuff for screws not to come off easy? Im a noob Im curious.😂
Thanks a lot Jake again for your great job 👍👍👍
No T Bow sponsorship then?😉
Well, is this the tbow ilf bow? I'm confused if this is that or a fake tbow. Should I not buy the tbow?
TBOWs are fake bows… there are no fakes of a fake. A fake is a fake.
I got a knock off of a hoyt satori 50# that have the same logo as this one. been shooting fine for the last 5 years. It came from a big archery shop.
We had the same limb bolt issue before. One batch had the wrong limb bolts. I would say Manufacturers have all had issues before. Pandarus the other day got me to check all one type of arrows- I did not have any with a issue. I recall a entire batch of Win and win limbs been recalled. I recall Bowtech recalling a bow. I recall Hoyt having issues. I recall Martin having issues. I recall Predator having issues.
If Jake informed the manufacturer or the dealer - the problem would have been fixed.
@archerysupplieslonsdale this is not an improper sized tiller bolt... Can you tell me the specs of the tiller bolt thread and pitch that is supposed to be in this riser? I know what size should be in the riser based on the specs I have measured.... unless they make a custom M12.5x1.25 bolt for this bow.
What actually happened is that the riser is WAY out of spec for the proper bolt size that was intended to go into the threaded area of the riser. Add into that, the tiller bolt itself was low and far out of spec for it's intended sizing. The OD of the threaded area itself was short by .35mm which when combined with the ID of the riser results in this very issue I have here.....
This is a tolerance and quality control issue from a junk manufacture. This is not a typical failure in the least, and in no way comparable to a recollection when reputable manufactures do recalls.
I'm ethnic Chinese not residing in PRC, and I strongly believe you should name and shame, cuz this is just deplorable.
Actually... most Chinese pros also feel ashamed about this company. This company was famous in China for its low quality. Yeah, it was even worse several years ago.
Also, some funny things. Your video was shared to Chinese social media and recently several water armys appears in comments. They say TaoW (or Junxing in CN) is threatening Hoyt's sales and you are funded to have those videos to defame TaoW. LMAO
Just want to share how shameless this company is. Trust me, most Chinese also hate this company. We also have some great archery brands and we also hope we can have a top-end brand like Hoyt and Wiawis in the future, but not those who only make cheap knockoffs.
That's a T-Bow there's a knockoff T-Bow good lord what the world is coming to😳
T-Blow
Junk from China, about w hat i expected. Glad you put out this video.
Thanks Jake. I had these thoughts. So thanks for the confirmation.
HOYT use Chinese suppliers. Period. Their bows are not made in the US. That’s marketing BS and the biggest lie in archery. Chinese companies have a basic version of the bow they sell to the mass public. Their actual customers i.e HOYT and co., customise the bow to make it a higher spec and therefore try to justify a higher retail price point. Stop the lies.
You’re the shill man, Hoyt may use suppliers for accessories overseas but they have not used China for riser production. Nice try.
Tell you what Jake, show me one actual recurve riser manufacturing video by HOYT and I’ll concede… All I see at the ‘factory’ is a warehouse full of bulk stock risers, bulk packaging boxes, spare parts and components, but limbs being made and sprayed… where are the recurve risers machined? I’m a shill on behalf of people who don’t want to get ripped off.
I've been at the factory in the machine shop and not just on their tour. Have you? Did you even watch my follow-up video showing how this POS riser is cast and not machined?
I have seen the very detailed myth-busting video you did explaining HOYT’s process (casting), quality control and ethics etc., but I don’t see any video actually showing the risers cast at the factory. Have I missed it? I even looked at HOYT’s videos and their website. And again, just to confirm, I’m only talking about recurve risers. Compared to MYBO (for example), where they actually have the videos showing risers being made in the UK, so their ‘Made in the UK’ statement holds up. I couldn’t give a monkeys about where the manufacturing is, but when you make those statements, then you need to be held accountable, as you are basing your entire brand message and pricing on that. Agree or not?
Try again. Hoyt’s flagship risers are not cast and then machined… they are machined from extrusions.
Have a nice day.
I thought my junxing f 261 was good,, advertise as 7075 alluminium. I sold it for a win @win black elk 21 " riser. I better check the tolerance on it as win@win had China making these risers.
It’s not an issue with things being made in China. It’s an issue with companies who make knock-offs. W&W still has pretty strict quality control on their products made in China. There’s no reason for knock-offs to care about the perception of their brand.
Making something in China isn't a problem as long as the QC is done properly. A company like W&W/WIAWIS has really strict QC standards.
It doesn't matter where it is made, there are good and bad products coming from each and every country on earth.
Well your catching flack for telling the archery community buyers beware on another UA-cam channel.
Why? because it affects sales of cheap chinese knockoffs!
Buying knockoffs is the same as flushing your money!
Stephen’s upset because he sells anything that chyna puts out there.
You must have gotten a bad one, mine isn't like that at all...I love it.
Yes I had to check mine after this video too. No issues. Hence the video two videos Im about to post on it. I had 3 phone calls on this video Friday. So now I have to spend the weekend testing while I should be shooting.
So why are you testing, are you the manufacturer, did Jake get that riser ( that he never named on the video) from you?
Sadly now the chinese factory will fix the flaws thanks to this video
Ive got a T Bow H7 exceed clone. Ive had no issues with it and have used it for about a year
Ive got other bows as well and it feels great to shoot 🤷🏻♂️
My t bow is better then all the other bows i got. Im all for buying good anerican made shit. Most american made shit is trash now. So you would be stupid not to buy a t bow. I shot my tbow over 300 shots this weekend.
Wow. 100 times worse tolerance than my cheap core jet, (rebranded sanlida tangzong recurve). My limb bolt almost has to little clearance. They squeak slightly when I screw them on. I should probably apply some string wax on the bolts.
the finest chinesium alloy...
Right off the hop I knew it was dog excrement.
Onfortun
Unsubscribed
Just like the original, same bad quality
You have just lost a nice portion of your worldwide credibility with this video. On the other hand you have satisfied you preferred supplier. I hope they payed you well for your unqualified comments about this riser. The USA is producing in China like all the others. They are teaching the Chinese how to do it and their products are improving from day to day. It looks like the Chinese are much more clever than some USA based companies have anticipated. Is it some sort US-patriotism to purchase a so called US-product produced in China than buying direct a similar product in China? Have you watched the same product review from your colleague in Australia? If not you better do.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I’m putting out an explanation video later that clearly shows this bow was not produced in China to be sold in the USA as the USA branded bow.
The other channel may allude to that, but it’s a lie and I prove it… watch my video that comes out next.
As far as satisfying my preferred supplier, I have none and I have no allegiance to anyone other than the general archer who is unsuspecting and risks severe injury or a loss of hard earned money.
Have a nice day!
Hoyt bows are designed and manufactured in-house in the USA.
@@JakeKaminskiArcheryI have had a nice day with my tbow equipment (barebow) on the archery range shooting best score in field archery (342)
You second review is much more qualified, that is like J. Kaminski!