"If you don't like the Love Square, then why are you here?" Because I thought the Kwamis were a cool concept and got attached to certain characters. That's about it.
Yeah, pretty much. I've invested the better half of a decade into this show so I'm not stopping now but, it's painful to for so many reasons. The concepts and dynamics are amazing, but most importantly is the potential, and that's what the biggest draw for me is. The way it's executed in the episodes is just horrendous and painful to watch. But I keep coming back, and I'm obsessed with this show because of the concepts that are just, so cool
Same I didn't care as much with the love square. Actually I didn't even know it was a "love square" until I saw a video essay about it. I just thought it was a fun idea of a couple that loved a separate version of themselves
i find it funny that apparently felix, who used his miraculous to summon the most dangerous sentimonster ladybug has seen throughout her entire position as a superhero, gets redeemed. meanwhile, chloe rejected an akuma TWICE, and somehow she’s the worse person Edit: some of these replies really don’t get the point of my comment no, chloe is not a great example of a how to write a failed redemption arc, you’re on serious copium if you believe this. if the intent is to make her evil but she’s no longer a very prominent villain for future seasons, thats not accomplished you just decided you just dont want to use the character anymore. chloe is never taken seriously in seasons 4 and 5. if you really want to make someone evil, make them good at it. don’t make them cartoonishly evil when you developed them to be a prominent character. felix & lila had everything chloe was supposed to be: a cunning villain that could be taken seriously if the writers wanted to but they didn’t. i’m not saying chloe should’ve been the new hawk moth, but she should’ve been much more important than just a pawn in someone else’s shoes. the dream is her getting redeemed though: because people LOVE this concept and how she was written in style queen and miracular. why not have her work to get the bee miraculous back? it’s proven she’s able to withstand against an akuma. and while she hates waiting to have the bee miraculous, she was still willing to listen to ladybug. the only reason she snaps is that when ladybug tells her she can’t be queen bee anymore. this character flaw of chloe wanting attention more than anything else: this envy that’s kept in her heart, can be fixed. its one of her goals to protect people though..but her desire for attention is whats holding her back. she’s frustrsted on both ends; the fact she can’t get the attention she deserves and protect the people she loves? maybe miracle queen would’ve actually been a good episode to start off that redemption arc if chloe just decided to give up the miracle box: but no just..scrap her i guess!! that moment just felt so out of character and stupid for her. the point is: the writers gave felix what they should’ve given to chloe: the realization of what they’re doing is wrong and the motivation to become better people based on what we know about them as characters. that is a huge blunder writing-wise. its not just about whether shes redeemed or not, its the writers forgetting she exists for those ideas.
Yeah, one of my friends pointed out that Felix was only this way because his father was abusive, but at the same time, they threw that shit in so randomly with no build up at all. And as someone whose father was abusive, you don't see me killing everyone on the planet
Felix also rejected an akuma Chloe became a superhero for the fame not because she's a good person, she decided to become evil because ladybug didn't give her a miraculous Felix was broken from the beginning and realised he was wrong when he talked with ladybug and found his freedom Chloe was a bully from the beginning for no reason ( her mom doesn't have any connection with Chloe being a bully ) In conclusion, Chloe became evil because she chose to be evil and felix realized he was wrong and became a good guy
“chloe being a bully has no connection to her mom” hello?? style queen?? did we watch the same episode?? chloe looks up to her mom as a role-model: imitating the way she acts because thats all she knows and mainly because her mom is barely around. this comment sounds like the stupid comment mylene made about her. while she did want to become a superhero for the fame, you have to account the times she genuinely has desire to help people. literally in all her times as queen bee in seasons 1-3 she’s been trying her best to perform the way she could and has been completely loyal to ladybug. the fact she rejected an akuma not once but TWICE proves that she is capable of keeping the bee miraculous in safe hands. she’s frustrated on not getting it not just because she wants it but because she *needs* it to protect people like her father and her best friend from getting goddamn akumatized. this is a sole character trait the writers completely removed from her in miracle queen. the point i’m making(and also op’s point) is that her story should not be downplayed compared to felix. she is a much more established character that should’ve gotten that sort of redemption felix had but the writers forgot she existed and just straight up made her evil for the stupidest reason to erase her character for future seasons.
@whizzermania what i meant is having a bad mother doesn't make her a bully You literally said what i said but offensively Chloe wants attention She copied her mom to get her attention Copied ladybug yo get her attention and approving and when she failed she copied hawk moth Saying that she was trying to help people as queen be while she was bullying him as Chloe is as dumb as your mylen comment She didn't want the miraculous to protect her loved ones , she barely loves them, she bullied her father countless times how is that loving Also slaving Sabrina She is not a monster but her main goal isn't the greater good but her own ass thus making her unqualified for the miraculous Rejecting the akuma isn't because she is good but because she have a strong will The akumas aren't evil, hawk moth use theme in evil ways Also go back and watch everything Chloe did in that episode it literally debunked your hole point
"a show deserves to be reviewed for what it is, not what it could've been" These words always circle my mind whenever I talk about it, and that last bit about greif truly resonate, I always saw miraculous as a show for everyone, and the uniqueness of what it brought to the table i didn't see anywhere else, but Alas. Chloé is unironically a perfect representation of the show at large, You love her potential, but it goes to maliciously waste to disappoint you, and you can't help but mourn what could've been
i love the part where ladybug says "what are we? some kind of miraculous ladybug?" and then chat noir says "maybe the miraculous ladybug was the friends we made along the way" and then they both miraculoused the ladybug all over the place. truly one of the moments of all time
Ngl, got emotional when you revealed that you were grieving the lost of loving the show as you once did. That somehow hurt ME - just IMAGINING how that feels is heart wrenching 😭
The derailment of Chloe's redemption arc is what killed the series for me. She was the best written character of the show with the most amount of tangible character development and consistency in her writing, but Astruc has a hate boner for her and just had to ruin everything surrounding her narrative! But what made me stop watching the show altogether (even hate watching like I was in season 4) was Marinette! She is such a hypocrite and condescending bastard towards Chat Noir (and Chloe), but the narrative never acknowledges that, so she gets away with everything! The only interesting thing the show ever did was make Gabe win at the end of season 4 and make him get all the Miraculous, but my interest in the series was long gone at that point. And from the reviews I saw of season 5, I'm glad I did not waste any time watching the show.
Tbh, I was intrigued with the idea of chloe becoming a villain, but the writers intentionally wrote her as an incompetent villain, which basically wasted her character potentially completely as both a hero and a villain.
She literally said at the end of season four that she was wrong about chat noir and that is why she lost the miraculous She has flaws because she is not perfect and got punished for that in the end of season 3 and 4 Chloe is , was , and will be a bad person who just wants attention and only want to change when she becomes desperate, once she have the upper hand she convertes to a monster, abuse Sabrina, danger the lifes of the people in the bus , and help hawk moth because ladybug didn't give her a miraculous she got by the fault in the first place Even master fu was worry about giving Chloe the miraculous but mari had some hope in her , It's very normal for someone to be on the way of changing and chose to return to square zero , it's not a bad writing, you people just like cheap redemption arcs and can't see the signs of it's failing even before it start
@@SkEi-y3b Chloe not being redeemed isn't the problem. The problem is the fact that nothing interesting came from it. The writers kept telling us how evil and irredeemable chloe is instead of making her an actually competent and fun villain. Also, you're one to talk about gobbling up cheap redemption arcs when you happily gobbled up felix's half-baked redemption arc. Speaking of which, felix doesn't deserve to be redeemed or keep the peacock miraculous. He literally did the same things that chloe did (and more worse stuff) and didn't even try to make up for the mistakes he made.
@usernotfound_____yet i didn't say i liked half baked redemption Felix I liked his redemption because it made sense after knowing the agrest story I said people like redemption arcs and that's why they don't accept it failing We are not talking about what happened after Chloe failed redemption arc we are talking about it being good or bad And since you said you have no problem with it that means my point has proven
Derision is more than laughing at trauma. Astruc took every criticism aimed at Marinette and established It as Chloe's fault. I can hear him behind the scenes of derision going like "See? You said Marinette was creepy? WELL IT'S ALL CHLOE'S FAULT *EVIL LAUGHTER". Astruc even went out his way to revisit the statue scene, the scene everyone agrees It was too much and made It the point Adrien started liking Marinette! This is just beyond baffling. There is seriously no possible way to even put how ridiculous this is into words. The man falls asleep thinking of ways of proving people on twitter wrong
But how dare we criticize his daugh... I mean main protagonist. Apparently we are in the wrong for calling out Marinette's actions that are very cause of concern and wanting to see Thomas's bull... I mean the evil blonde girl have a redemption. I will never get over that
@@thanatosdriver1938 The statue scene? Don't you think It is borderline sick and creepy how she just kisses a statue that resembles the boy she likes? I guess to each his own, but regardless, It is still sickening
@@thanatosdriver1938 Regardless of your personal opinion, the point is the intention behind Astruc's motivation. He is doing that to annoy his supposed "haters".
Because she didn't become a good person in the first place They made you think she has grown but she didn't change She only wants fame and power not being good She only acts good when her life is in danger or with ladybug so she trust her with the miraculous Even if you think she became better and suddenly changed They didn't throw her development in garbage, instead they made a villain who will keep making marinette remember her mistake with her and her failure to help Chloe become better Chloe failed redemption arc could have made her a great written villain
@@SkEi-y3b You're just parroting Astruc's gaslighting when he tried to justify butchering Chloe's character development. Chloe was improving little by little, one step at a time, becoming less selfish and even protecting people with her self-esteem against Howkmoth's Scarlet Akumas without expecting anything in return. She even did crowd control, using her (in)fame as Queen Bee during Star Train to get everyone out of the train car where the Akuma appeared. It doesn't matter how much Astruc or people like you try to gaslight the audience, Chloe was walking the path of redemption and had no business being a villain!
@TwilightWolf032 first i didn't read any of astruc statements I don't have Facebook or twitter Second, i never said Chloe wasn't walking on the good path I said she walked on it for ladybug and her acknowledgement Even when scarlet moth she was trash talking rena and telling ladybug she would disappoint her Chloe started to become good but once she saw ladybug stopped giving her the miraculous she turned to be evil because hawk moth gave her the attention she wanted the miraculous for in the first place Im not gaslighting anything and you should be more respectful while comments and respect different opinions What's the point of making a story in the same way as everything in any other cartoon You expected Chloe's redemption but got suprise by her becoming evil Her failed redemption had more evidence in season 2 and 3 than an actual redemption but you can't see it because something doesn't happen the way you wanted it to be Chloe had a great potential to be a great villain and that is something disturbing you even if it has so much evidence
@TwilightWolf032 aslo in star train she was showing off people that she was a superhero I mean who tf on Paris doesn't know what the akuma is If you can't see the difference between someone showing off and someone actually trying to help i really don't expect you to be less rude than what you are in your comment
I like Hawkmoth up to season 3, he was a bad father, but you could make enough of a case that he's just a desperate man blinded by the power that could potentially fix his broken life - you had room to write a redemption arc or a damnation arc if that's what you wanted to of; if you take the actualy time to develop it. And, you know, some of us were majorly coping that Chat Blac was just the result of a lot fo story needing to be gone over in a short time and that when Gabriel actually got the Chat Noir reveal for real, we'd see a lot more of him grappling with it. Problem is, the show never wants to delve into him and treats him as two seperate characters (The Evil Villain and the Grieving Father) fighting over the drivers seat for whatever is convient for the current scene rather than the scene just naturally bringing out different sides of him. I think even Astruc said that it was impossiable to get a flashback episode or any deeper exploration of Gabriel's relationships because that would break the formula of the show (even though many shows with a simmilar formula have managed to pull that off with multiple characters) and take the focus away from Marinette, so all we get is just him repeating that he needs to bring his wife back. We don't know anything about his relationship with Emilie, we don't know about what he was like before she died, we don't know if there's any backstory that might help fuel his obsessions. The show implies that he was alledgedly a better father before Emilie's passing (though still sheltered his kid?), but we never see any of that, so it's easy to assume that this is all his default state. The mechanic of the villain is that he has a blank page to basically bring out any power and narrative excuse you need, and you can't think of a way for that to mannifest as a vehicle for character development? Season five is where a lot of the time I didn't really get why he'd do some of the shit he did outside of the plot just needing him to be in Marinette's way. Like, I don't really see why he's so obsessed with Kagami and Adrien getting together and making them global icons. Even just writing it off as a snob/ego thing just feels like not enough, especially when the writing is intending to keep him somewhat symapthetic in the end. Maybe they should have focused on on the angle that Tomoe has basically all the leverage in their partnership now - she knows eveything, she's the supplier of all the resources and advantaced technology he needs, she's the one keeping Nathalie semi-alive and if she wanted she could threaten his entire family. Really hammer home that sense of 'I've realized too late how far I've fallen' if you want a chance at making the current ending work. Really, I think what Miraculous really needed was more villains. Hawkmoth/Gabriel stretches his character thin needing to fufill all these different boxes that would be better served by just introducing some third parties who have no affiliation with the Agreste storyline. We already have non-miraculous super heroes, mythical monsters and mentions by Bunnix of alien/interdimensional conquerours; you can find other sources of villainy to fight against. Plus, having other villains means we don't see Hawkmoth constantly losing and looking ineffective outside of season finals.
Hey yeah, more villains would actually have been pretty cool! Even just something petty, like a catwoman ripoff but they somehow got the dog miraculous or whatever. Have them mess with Chat Noir for comedic effect.
36:31, that's my problem. If anything, she's worse than season 1. They treat her like she's the incarnation of evil when she's just a high school mean girl, especially when there are villains legitimately 10x worse than her in actions
She helped hawk moth by her own will She wants attention, if ladybug didn't gave her that and hawk moth did , she will be with him Also she nearly killed the people on that train when she got the bee miraculous
@SkEi-y3b Felix- tried to non consensually kiss ladybug, snapped practically all of Paris out of existence, also betrayed ladybug Andre- mostly responsible for why Chloe is like this, has done corrupt things even without her influence Mr. Agreste- watch the show (I admit, I honestly forgot the train thing, even then her point was to try and save the train...didn't work, but still she wasn't crashing a train for evulz.
@madysonslays9662 she literally puts everyone there in danger just for the fame and got mad she failed She wasn't good when she became queen be , she wanted queen be to be famous Felix got created by envy Andre thought he was making his daughter life better by giving her everything ( something alot of parents fall for ) Even Gabriel had a better reason to be evil All of the people you described have one thing makes them different from chloe They saw an evidence that the are horrible and decided to be better people to do what right not because of fame or people accepting them like chloe Chloe tried to be good for Adrian and ladybug and tired to be evil for her mom and hawk moth thus making her motives personal Felix knew he was wrong after seeing mari trying to help Adrian and talking with ladybug and decided to help her Andre knew he did so many horrible things for Chloe and Audrey and decided to put someone better than him as a mayor Even gabe made a pure wish that doesn't destroy the universe sacrificing his life to save Natalie knowing she will be a better parent than him even though he could have brought Emily back My point is those people did the right thing for a good reason thus getting redeemed Chloe had personal motivation to do what is good and the moment that motivation had gone she became evil again I can't believe how simple this argument is yet people still don't understand it It's not about how horrible the actions are , it's about what is your motivation to do the right thing
The ending actually made me tear up a bit. The feeling of grieving a love lost for something you really enjoyed hurts bad. But I still really liked the movie, I'll hold on to that.
I will never forgive Marinette for continuing Adrien's abuse by lying that his father was a hero. I don't care if she's 14! I don't care if Gabriel 'manipulated' her! You would think that someone who is seen as the greatest Ladybug ever, she would think twice about lying that the ma$$ m*rdering terrorist who abused his own son and her boyfriend and locked him up in a white t*rture chamber was a hero this whole time! She has literally no reason to lie for him, since he tried to destroy her career as a designer to break her and Adrien up, and he paralyzed and stole from her! Frankly, I pray to God that Lila reveals everything so Marinette will have to deal with some consequences and so Adrien might finally get some character development. With this writing though, I don't know.
Right? I am so sick and tired of people defending the crap out of MariSuenette. Even Steven Universe at a much younger age knew better! Pinocchio may have been just born, but he suffered consequences still despite not knowing any better. Because that’s how he learned. Marinette deserves five seasons worth of consequences on a tsunami level.
@ I wouldn’t be as angry, if she'd get the salt treatment like the class and Adrien did over Chameleon, but she doesn’t and this situation is way worse than that! And frankly it just makes Marinette into a giant hypocrite for both Gabriel and Lila since she gets on Lila for lying for her own benefit and Gabriel for his mistreatment of Adrien, but she’s also willing to lie for her own benefit while keeping Adrien emotionally and psychologically dependent on his father which is a form of mistreatment.
And i dont have trust enough it gets him into a villain arc when he realized everyone lied to him especially about that and stick wit hrightfully, blaming marinette.
33:00 having Zoé come out by giving her a crush on Marinette is kinda lazy IMO - this is the Everyone Loves Marinette Show after all. I spent the whole episode thinking Zoé had a crush on Alya - because she actually had a unique interaction with her as backup Ladybug and Chat Noir! Also also, isn't it weird how Rose and Juleka are supposedly dating yet aren't allowed to explicitly say they're together, but the cheap Chloé knock-off whom the fan community overall dislikes is allowed to come out? It doesn't feel like Zoé came out because the writers genuinely wanted a queer female character in the show
Honestly, with the idea of Lila having these multiple identities... how do we even know that Lila isn't some thirty year old woman in secret crushing on a teenager?
Yeah, I can only hope it was because she was after money, not Adrien, but even then, there are BETTER WAYS of going about that plan that DON'T involve an adult woman grooming a teenager.
Even though it’s being argued more consistently that Chloe didn’t really change all that much in S2 and 3 (and I’m starting to somewhat agree with them) that doesn’t erase the fact that Chloe’s treatment (character wise) in S4 and 5 was abysmal. Not only was her past experiences of abuse downplayed but Marinette’s stalking tendencies was all blamed on her (and Kim but for some reason he still gets to be a hero while she doesn’t-) For some reason in S5 specifically, she’s written to be dumbed down. (This is the same girl that nearly defeated Mayura by herself-). If Chloe was going to become a villain, the least they could have done was make her own force of nature. And yes, her becoming a puppet for Lila is a parallel to how she treated Sabrina but you’re meaning to tell me that CHLOE didn’t have a single dispute or argument with Lila while they worked together?? She just complied with everything?? And to top it off, this random ass girl from New York comes in and replaces her in her OWN LIFE and everyone else who was arguably worse than her (not counting Lila) are treated with more nuance than Chloe (most of them even got redemption arcs which is pure bullshit.)
My entire bug bear with Zoe is that her entire character is blatantly the logical conclusion of what could have been the rest of chloe's character arc chopped off at the knee and mushed into anouther person. Entirely because thomas austruc is so petty about the idea of someone he willingly based on a childhood bully
I'll admit when I found about the Ending of Season 5 from the leaks, I just gave up. I wasn't apart of the ride from the beginning (that was somewhere between Seasons 2-3), but once I got on I was super into it as I do with past fascinations (reading fanfics, comics, having story ideas in my head that usually stay there, etc.) But then I started thinking about critically and the more I did the less I fell out of "love" with Miraculous. Every bad decision, Every stupid choice, Each blow I took because I wanted to see how it all ends. And of course that final blow (the Victory of the Main Unsympathetic Villain, the Idiocy of our Main Heroine, the Sidelining of our other Main Hero, and the absolute, sheer AUDACITY of the Story to tell me this was a Happy Ending), it was just too much for my heart and soul, my sanity, my time and energy to bare. And so, I said it (metaphorically of course). Those 8 Deadly Words. "I Don't Care What Happens To These People." And after my grief, I felt...freeing? Sure, maybe I'll take a peak to see what new terrors await others, but knowing that I that I can just end it here and go on to something more worthwhile, was good. It was ok. I will be ok. And so will everyone who decides to drop Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir. (Full Title, Babes!) I hope this didn't come across as pretentious. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TEDtalk! XD
@@afloatingshoppinglist7013 That's because the author's intentions aren't supposed to satisfy the reader's whims. The author has a specific narrative in mind that they wish to share. Complaining about how that narrative isn't the same as your own idealised version of the story doesn't mean that the narrative has problems. The ending of season 5 serves as a crucial turning point for the next seasons. It was the result of a specific set of events that were intended from the very beginning.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 But the narrative does have problems. Several actually (honestly too many to count.). If the story's bad regardless of the author's intentions, then I don't have to continue it. Why are you complaining that someone doesn't like it?
@@afloatingshoppinglist7013 I have no problem with you disliking the show, because I respect your opinion. I do have a problem with you calling the show bad, just because you didn't like what the author had in store for the audience.
Everyone we know in the show is dead and the villain, that MONSTER, is hailed as a hero, truly this is the darkest timeline. I stepped away from this show for about a year or so and came to this video to see what season 5 was about since I dropped of at the season 4 finale and I have to say that I agree with you about there being so many missed opportunities. It's so close to being good and it drops the ball HARD and that is what sticks out to us older, former fans of the show. I've read some Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir fanfiction and the ones that I've read are really good. The show works well as a concept and clearly the official show-runners care more about making bank than giving their audience, both young and old, what they want which is on screen character interactions, characters that aren't dumb, and proper payoff on the major plot points that THEY set up.
Additionally, thinking about it, the show I believe could have benefited from some sort of third party anti-hero character or villain organization to act as questions for our lead characters, like what are the heroes willing to sacrifice to win? (i.e. someone's life to stop the bad guy from doing bad things) or what do our heroes do when there's more than one person in charge of doing bad things? (i.e. Marvel's Hydra organization) or maybe (and this might be dark for a modern kids show, but Avatar the Last Airbender covered it somewhat) how do the heroes respond to needing to actively put the villain down permanently?, do they accept it as a necessary sacrifice?, do they try to find a way out? do some of our heroes die fighting for a non-lethal option and the others have to pick up the pieces, the mess, and carry on once the fighting is over or furiously keep fighting because the thing that killed their friend is still trying to kill them? All of this is assuming that their miraculous get-out-of-involuntary-man-slaughter-charges-and-consequences-free ladybug card is out of commission for whatever reason p.s. If these questions about death in the show have already been asked, I apologize for re-asking those questions.
@CrochetWhiteLion I have a million thoughts and questions that aren't really going to be well organized here, so heads up I feel that the show dips into these just a little bit in some episodes, but the cleansing spell Ladybug uses to reset everything cuts off any sort of exploration and closure. The infamous Chat Blanc episode for instance, dealt with the death of *everyone*, and it was either the New York special or Shanghai where there was actual lasting damage that needed to be rebuilt in Paris. Did people die there too? What if they pull a Marvel and have an alternate universe Gabriel come in to essentially take over the role of the Gabriel that died, therefore making his death null? I don't see why they would do that, but who knows. I am still baffled that all of this is happening because an old man chose to put the fate of the world into the hands of two teenagers that helped him up on the street
@@deathonwheels1355 And that's fine, all your points have merit. I'm just a former fan of the show who's tastes in content have changed significantly since the time I could honestly call myself a fan, preferring darker "learning to become better" stories, one example from the top of my head is God of War "Norse Saga" and Epic the Musical, and would like for the next generation of children to experience great stories in the media that caters to their age demographic. Wishful thinking? Maybe? I don't think I'm wrong to want the stories the next generation is first exposed to to have important life lessons like "don't trust compulsive liars or confirmed criminals." and spend a great deal of time on that lesson while making it fun because IT'S A BAD IDEA TO TRUST A COMPULSIVE LIAR AND A CONFIRMED CRIMINAL! MARINETTE! THAT SEASON FINALE STILL HAS ME SOOOO MIFFED BECAUSE TO ME, IT TELLS CHILDREN THAT IT'S FINE TO LET VILLAINS DO AS THEY PLEASE BECAUSE THEIR WARPED MIND CAN SOMEHOW FRANKENSTEIN TOGETHER A BETTER VERSION OF REALITY THAT WILL "IMPROVE" THE LIVES OF EVERYBODY WHEN THAT LESSON IS FAR FAR FAR FROM SAFE AND REALISTIC. IT'S NOT SAFE, LOGICAL OR PRUDENT TO LET A SERIAL KILLER DO AS THEY PLEASE BECAUSE THEY KILL TO IMPROVE SOCIETY. I'm sorry for dumping all that on you, if you want, feel free to ignore my cries of impotence. They start after "MARINETTE!".
I cannot agree more with you. And I also can’t agree more with your first statement. Gabriel was truly a monster regardless of his backstory and reasoning. Speaking on all the awful things he’s done to so many people not even just the citizens of Paris. He’s harmed other parts of the world as well. Truly massive evil monster who harmed so many lives. And literally destroyed all lives and the world we know. That’s enough to make it awful that he’s praised as a hero. But also, what upsets me so much is that he was abusive to Adrien. And as much as a fan of the show or character can defend it saying he wasn’t physically abusive just emotionally (which shouldn’t be the bar and it doesn’t make it better) this isn’t even fully true. As we see that when he finds out Adrien is Chat Noir (in Chat Blanc) he beat him across Paris. So he is indeed willing to physically harm him kid. And now that kid praises his abuser as a hero. It’s messed up and tone deaf on so many levels.
Hey hey whoa whoa whoa. The guy who assumed his cousin's identity to get touchy with said cousin's crush is apparently more redeemable than a high school mean girl?? *I'm sorry?¿?*
I am so happy you brought up the whole Lila issue cuz people have been going on about hwo cool she is and she's o much smarter and better than hawk moth especially in the new London special but like I can't take her character serious with the amount of plot armour and bending backwards the show does to make her seem like this huge villain who's smarter than everyone when she's really not.
RIGHT LIKE, you mean to tell me that a girl that has never used a miraculous before managed to not only get both ladybug and cat noir’s but all in her first try too
The production quality of this video?!?! 🤯 Well done! Great points were made, the background music played so nicely with what you were going for, and clever storytelling! And yes, I'm in the Chloe revolution as well 🇨🇵 I'm sorry that you and so many others were disappointed by the way this show turned out. I never allowed myself to become a fan or invest myself in the show's shenanigans to the point of getting so emotionally invested. I know the pitfalls and am disappointed from the plethora of missed opportunities, but I'll never be on the level of true fans such as yourself. I can, however, understand the loss of something you held so dear. And I'm glad you had the chance yo articulate those complicated feelings. Thank you for sharing ❤
16:52 I actually liked that akumas got reused unlike the typical monster of the week format. I just wished the writers went further with the idea. That each re-akumatization strengthened the akumatized person, that they retained more of their memory, that it in some way CHANGED / developed them as a character. M. Pigeon 72 would have been a perfect chance to explore that idea. 72 akumatizations in ONE year! How can you tell me he's NOT BENEFITING from that in some way. After 3 times I would think a person would get anger management training. After 10 times I would think the law enforcement would demand it. SEVENTY-TWO TIMES and he's just begging for any opportunity to get power himself.
Gabriel getting a redemption and a full blown statue really broke me. Season 4 and 5 Gabe had really started to seem more manipulative and abusive. I figured that if the show didn’t have the guts to punish him properly, he would at least get some form of confrontation with Adrien like he did in the movie that would allow him to realize how wrong he was. (Even if there were several timelines showing that Gabe would immediately abuse Adrien upon finding out he’s Cat Noir.) I really hate the finale for the unintentional message it sends to children who may or may not be in abusive home or situation. Adrien is 13 by the end of season 5 and I can’t get over how Marinette is only ever going to feed Adrien words about his father that he wants to hear. Gabriel literally locked him and Kagami in white rooms under the influence of nightmares with no means of escape unless the two decided to get married. Absolutely disgusting. I think I’m really only going to watch season 6 to see if Adrien’s ignorance to his father’s true a true will be addressed. Knowing this show though, I shouldn’t get my hopes up.
When you talked about your grief with the show, I really felt that. I stopped actively watching Miraculous after the conclusion of Season 3 just because it was so unnecessarily difficult to watch as it aired, but I was still involved in the fandom. I read hundreds of thousands of words of fanfiction, I browsed fan theories and made my own, and the realization that what I loved most about the show is gone (or hell, was not even there to begin with)? That HURT. It REALLY hurt.
Miraculous Ladybug, oh what a tale, With superheroes that often fail. A plot so tangled, it makes no sense, Repetitive themes, just pure pretense. A cat and a lady, both in disguise, But their love story, it's built on lies. They fight, they save, but can't ever win, For the villains come back again and again. The heroes are clueless, they never learn, With each battle, there's no real return. The magic's recycled, the drama's too sweet, It’s the same thing again, just on repeat. Characters with flaws, but no growth at all, They make the same mistakes, every time they fall. Their love's in the air, but never quite real, And the answers to problems are too hard to feel. So let’s face the truth, let’s set things right: Miraculous Ladybug, it’s not a delight. A show full of fluff, with no real heart, A never-ending cycle, where do we start?
So I don’t even watch the show like at all but I’ve been in the fandom or rather the corner of it that focuses on what couldve been and I think this is what I needed to hear. Precanon miraculous is extremely rich in potential and concepts, but if the writing team fumbled *this* hard on a show with even simpler characters, plot and ideas, then Precanon would have arguably been done even worse. This was a wake up call for me to accept that… but also continue to pour that love I have for it into my fan work. There may not have been a Precanon show, but that’s a saving grace. I don’t think I could handle it if Precanon was made into what’s basically pj masks but with terrible morals and iffy at best designs.
well, I know that from what I’ve seen, I don’t think I wouldn’t have liked it at all because the male lead was not who I wanted to be the male lead, and is instead a character that makes me actively frustrated. I don’t like Adrien, so I doubt I’d ever like actually watching five seasons with him.
@@lyrastarstriker7304 I'm sorry, but the author doesn’t cater to the readers' whims. Adrien's character arc as the male lead was intended from the very beginning. If you were to watch the show, you would find that Adrien is a sympathetic yet resilient character who's willing to sacrifice himself in order to impress Ladybug. That desire is meant to fill the chasm left after his mother's passing. Under the watchful but abusive eye of his father, he needs to prove his own self-worth by defying him (although his nature as a sentimonster impedes that) and saving the world in the process. What's not to like? If you were to actually watch the show, you'd realise that the dynamics and progression of the show's plot and characters are quite distinct from how many misrepresent them.
what’s not to like is quite a few things, in my case. my problem is that I wanted pv/Precanon Felix and his chat noir design, personality, character arc and general vibe. Canon is such a downgrade design wise because Felix has something that Adrien doesn’t for me: Visual storytelling. In the original pv, Felix has a put together formal appearance and very visible angst and a colder personality, but what makes him so intriguing to me is that when Felix transforms into Chat, his hair gets wilder and brighter, the collar on his design is significantly more popped than Adrien’s design. There’s other reasons why I don’t like Adrien, and his character simply makes me too angry and has been ruined for me to care anymore. I simply do not want to give this canon show a second chance. I was neutral on him before, but now I can’t even see art of him without kind of getting disappointed.
I’m pretty sure I’ve said this online before somewhere, maybe even multiple times, but watching and following Miraculous honestly felt like an abusive relationship. It started off normal and enjoyable, but somewhere in season 3 things shifted and by the finale of that season the series finally showed its true colors. However, despite that, I and many others stuck around, because we were already in too deep. We were invested in the story that was set up competently in seasons 1 and 2, we grew to care for the characters and wanted to see where they would go, and so we kept watching. And then seasons 4 and 5 kept doing this manipulative tactic where they showed genuine improvement and promise for a better future, getting our hopes up, only to tear them down later by regressing worse and worse each time. “Yeah, season 3’s finale was awful, but Marinette’s arc as guardian, Alya’s integration into the team and Chat’s jealousy towards the other heroes could all be very interesting.” Then; “Okay, maybe the show’s excessive vilifying of Chloé is getting way too intrusive and honestly not enjoyable either for Chloé fans or haters, but she’s probably just the exception, because Astruc is weird like that. We can just ignore her and focus on anything else.” And then; “Okay yeah, they kinda fumbled everything from season 4, but look at how season 5 is doing! Like, the writers are definitely locked in for the conclusion to the Agreste arc.” (They even gave us my personal all time favorite episode - Passion.) But we all know where that eventually led. The season 5 finale was my personal breaking point with this show, just like how it was for you. I’m not gonna be following season 6 and beyond, or anything else tied to this continuity that they decide to release. I even skipped the AU special, despite the positive feedback for it, because I just couldn’t care less. Miraculous is one of extremely few (particularly non-Cartoon-Network-related) things that grabbed my attention as strongly as it did. I wrote CN Akumas - a 260K-word fanfic on this show, for crying out loud, I was undoubtedly hooked. And, don’t get me wrong, I had fun with the show, both creating and engaging with fan content about it. But now there’s nothing keeping me around anymore. Very soon after I concluded my long-running fanfic, season 5’s finale dropped and my last bit of hope for its future was completely destroyed, so I finally lost all interest in the series. At most now I very occasionally engage with some fan content here and there, but even that doesn’t hit like it used to. I only wish for those who’re sticking around to not regret their decision and that they get to enjoy what the future seasons offer, even if I personally won’t be part of it anymore.
@@10Bendog Same. The season just broke me. It was like "That's how it ends?? That how you chose to conclude it? WITHOUT ADRIEN!?!" I also didn't see the special cause when I started it it made me angry so I skipped it and officially quit. I found out via a youtuber who summarized the special. It's so sad though cause I really wanted it to go soo much further. There's sooo much potential in it but I feel they'll never do anything exciting like that. It's just disappointing. Sadly this is not my first rodeo of sticking with a cartoon that keeps making really bad decisions. As I was once a Voltron Defender fan since 1st or 2nd season until the very end. Yet I detest more how miraculous ladybug has been handled as a series than Voltron and trust me Voltron had an outrageously awful ending
I can forgive the first Monarch outfit being ugly AF because it's literally an amalgamation of all the miraculous' so it made sense, the second one only had to butterfly miraculous as a costume factor.
Ikr! Why did they even give him a new design? They should've gone back to his OG hawkmoth design cuz it was the easiest on the eye compared to all his other costumes.
Chloe deserves so much better. I love the concept of making Chloe just well... Chloe and introduce Zoe later on (like the show did anyways). But make it where Zoe was already nice and well liked. Chloe feels the need to be more aggressive because her sister who was from her mom going out with another man in the US, is clearly more liked. And her mom, always in the US, clearly spends more time with Zoe than Chloe. You see even the mayor loves Zoe. So Chloe acts out to get attention (even if it's negative). After accidently getting the bee miraculous, she does what she normally does and causes trouble like in canon. Ladybug gets mad at her and she gets lectured. She's mad at first that her hero told her he was wrong, but this helps put in her mind that she really wants to change Also like... In the movie, Gabriel got more redemption in a few hours than Chloe did in multiple seasons
I really relate to your grieving process. This show helped me survive an ED, and Adrien helped me process my abuse trauma from my dad. Seeing the way that Adrien was treated by the show- especially in season 5- and watching Gabriel, and abusive asshole, get redeemed while Chloe didn’t…. I strongly dislike this show.
I can see why you would abandon the show after it hurt you, I hope you're okay. It sucks to lose love for the show you once enjoyed. I've experienced it before and it's heartbreaking. Have fun with other cartoons. The effort in the video is insane.
So I'm not someone who watches this show. I've honestly haven't seen a single episode and only see whatever clip you posted in a youtube video. But for some reason YEARS ago I watched your videos on the show to figure out what Tumblr and people on Twitter were talking about. And I got hooked off the first video and marathoned all of your Miraculous content. I remember the past year or two at least once every few months just queueing up all your Miracolous videos and watching them in one night Just because they were so good, so funny, and so informed and smart. I'm so glad the youtube overlords pushed this video to me as I'm about to go to bed. Cause I will be looping this video.
Lila has the potential to be a decent arc villain, but considering the way they handled the last arc villain, and the fact that Lila being the new Hawkmoth was rarely given the plot progression and stepping stones to convince the audience she's something more than Gabriel's sidekick. AND the fact that there is a whole CLASSROOM of heroes AND international heroes that could easily take down one girl, AND the fact that every single Lila episode has been controversial at best… oh my God, why didn't ZAG just stop while they were ahead?
That final portion of the video just made me realize what I’ve been feeling for the last couple months. I keep rewatching and talking about the show, trying to find a way to still love it. Though I still find it comforting and nostalgic, Miraculous is not the show I try to make it out to be, and it will never be. Thank you for helping me mourn the loss of my love for a show that has been with me through the most important parts of my life.
I completely gave up on the show when I started watching Derision. Chloe's treatment and Marinette's trauma really killed any hype I had for it. It was so bad that I literally stopped watching the episode(I refuse to go back to finish it) and when I read the bible leaks, my hope was pretty much gone. I, too, was in love with Miraculous for a very long time. But honestly, like you, I just can't feel the same way anymore. Amazing video though👍
1:00:27 ; This exact sentence reminded me of Kaguya-sama love is war. If you didn't watch it, please do. I think what you just described is happening all across the story, but is precisely what is happening in the movie/last 4 episodes with Miyuki. < 1:08:34 ; I don't think this is what's upsetting me. See, the "funny haha" thing turning into "oh my gosh so sad" plot isn't necessarily bad, and can actually work well. I could take another example of that in the anime/manga Assassination Classroom: Nagisa is a boy who looks very feminine: petite body, slender, long hair... he is often mistaken for a girl and is often teased throughout the story for that for comedic effect. But as we advance through the story, we get to know his mother is actually forcing him to look like a girl, because she sees him as her second chance in life and wanted a daughter instead. His femininity is no longer funny to the audience, and actually makes you feel sad and empathetic towards Nagisa. And I think it's done pretty well. ... That is until the students continue to make fun of it during the following episodes while _knowing_ this is traumatic for him, but I digress. I think this is similar to Marinette, and it wouldn't have bothered me too much, if it weren't for one thing. I agree that this is also to make the audience feel bad. But it was clearly not planned from the beginning, and I did not get the feeling this was made to make me feel bad for laughing at Marinette - since I never really laughed at her antics anyway, but that's just me and some other people I guess. What I hate in this, is that it's overall a justification for her stalking behavior on Adrien. To say: "hah, see Marinette haters ? You hated her for her creepy tendencies, but little did you know it was actually a response to trauma ! Do you feel bad now ? Isn't wittle Mawinette so loveable ? Don't you want to give her a hug and feel sorry for hating her now, since your hate is unjustified because poor baby was traumatized ?" "Hm ? What's that ? Chloe is also traumatized by her mother's neglect and is the reason why she acts badly ? Just like Marinette is traumatized by Chloe's bullying and is the reason why she acts ba- hmph, you foolish creatures. Chloe isn't traumatized, she's irredeemable. But poor baby Marinette is and is the one who needs your sympathy. This isn't the same thing at all, so feel bad for being wrong as we outsmarted you." This. This hypocrisy is the thing that upsets me the most in this episode, other than the fact it is not consistent with the plot as Chloe was at least 10 times worse here than she was in season 1, and with Kim himself being afraid of spiders and yet giving a box of those to a girl plus laughing at her while the spiders are getting sparsed across the platform merely one step away from him etc... 1:33:53 ; A little dishonest here - the screen doesn't fade to black, we immediately see Alya's shocked reaction, Marinette nodding, and the both hugging. But yes, there weren't any direct follow-up to this scene I guess.
If I remember right, in certain moments of the video, two volumes of Assassination Classroom were visible on Gale's bookshelf. She is in the know. ;) Great analysis, I agree completely!
Chloe's redemption arc was never intended. She remained true to her character even when she became Queen Bee. Once that superhero persona was discarded, she simply doubled down on her atrocious behaviour. Comparing her behaviour with Marinette's is both dubious and unfair.
The funniest thing about Lila is that all her issues could also be fixed if they didn't have all the fillers and they didn't just make pointless episodes hating one Chloe. There were SO MANY episodes showing Lila in the background and does... NOTHING. They could have built her up as a good antagonist to replace Gabriel. Chloe doing small petty shit. And Felix just chaos who isn't taking sides. Ruining everyone's plans if it benefits him.
I don't always agree with you, but damn... That final speech really did put it into words how it feels... I kinda needed to hear it-- Thank you for saying it...
What a beautiful video and end to this journey. If only the show could've given us the same catharsis. I personally jumped this ship after the first few episodes of season 4 as the atrocious character writing, Alya's shoddily executed inclusion and the introduction of Zoe made me lose faith in any kind of good ending for this show. I will now head to AO3 and fill my re-ignited craving for good Miraculous drama. Speaking of books, I absolutely admire your book collection and salute my fellow danmei enjoyer.
29:04 I say that the season 3 finale wasn’t what doomed her character although it played a big part, it’s everything after it that failed the character by removing her depth, flanderizing her, and just using her as an asset for akumatizations or character development. No one highlights this better than our professional waste of space character that is Zoe Lee.
I really liked "Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain" Hawk Moth but had no love for Gabe. Mothman is a really funny and fun villain and as a character of his own is fine. When it gets revealed he gave a man pigeon powers for the 80th time and made a bread viking in an attempt to save his wife, the dissonance between the fun mustache twirling supervillain and the John Serious Character became waaay too distracting. Him going from cackling as plots to make a kid in a frog suit to make people slightly more reckless to his dead wife storage room and opine about how he'll save her became super jarring. I wish he stayed as a more low stakes but cartoonishly evil supervillain for some selfish goal than "man desperate to save his wife" but not desperate enough to have a plan thats not to give pigeon man powers again and hope it works.
I started following you because of your miraculous videos and in a way, this seems like the right conclusion to the series, and I am glad I have stayed and will continue, the heart and professionalism you put into this video shows me that whatever you work on, will be worth the watch
Honestly, that last bit about grief for losing the love for a show you once had has me quite sad, not only because you explained it perfectly but also because I've felt it before, not only with Miraculous Ladybug (as I stopped watching around mid season 4), but with other shows that too seemed to lose focus the more they went on, or even with other things that aren't just tv shows, and realizing you no longer love something you recall used to bring you tons of joy... is such a horrible feeling.
20:07. For Adrien's part, the show has explained to us that for the most part, he doesn't have many wants as a civilian. He might be tired with a cluttered schedule but he doesn't/cannot refuse to do it. The only two times he has expressed a desire to do something, he did it. He does as Noir but we have never learned how much influence a Kwame has over their user. So it is entirely possible that could be more Plagg's doing. As for Marinette, she is the opposite. She accomplishes most of her goals with an almost ridiculous level of ease. And the few she doesn't, confessing to Adrien or defeating the butterfly, are so plot centric they cannot be achieved without ending g the show.
Okay I don’t have a lot to say about the contents itself because I feel like I would just echo the grievances you already brought up. But honestly I have to tell you how cinematic, inspired, and entertaining this video was. Though I have a lot of criticism for miraculous I often don’t watch any videos on it because it’s just them yelling and making unfunny jokes most of the time. But this? This kept me entertained the whole way through! And while I can feel your frustrations you communicated those frustrations in a very digestible manner. And omg the ending, the way I was genuinely shocked when it was revealed that you were going through the stages of grief the whole video. And your final statement at the end. It’s disheartening to lose love for a show that has been with you for so long, and I can tell you truly loved this show with how much time and effort you put into this video. Miraculous has been with me since I was in middle school; I’m graduating next year. Watching this has honestly helped me not be so salty about the show; I think I’m ready to move on and leave miraculous behind me as well. Excellent work 👏👏👏
While I haven’t had time to watch the entire video, I have to say that a lot of your points ring very true to me. I stopped watching miraculous halfway through season 3 after a friend of mine said she was deciding to wait until the show was over to watch the rest. I decided to follow suit. Sure I was missing out in the fandom, but binging it all would make it worth it. But the distance made me realize my frustrations more and more. I could ramble about each subject forever, but the show never felt like it had the attention span to fully flesh out any of the developments it introduced. -New miraculouses? Instantly go to all of Marinette’s friends. I rarely felt any of them had “earned” it, it just felt like Marinette chose them because she liked them. -New Romantic partners? Completely brushed over after the two got together with their respective partners and inevitably broke up. I didn’t even love these ships at first but they grew on me to the point where I wouldn’t mind if they were endgame. My best friend made a good point that Adrien and Marinette’s relationship was superficial romance towards the beginning, both unnecessarily idolizing the other. These new relationships could change their dynamics. I realized the show could have something meaningful to say about puppy love and how Marinette and Adrien weren’t actually meant for each other. That would be a mature take on the subject. But nope. -Friends figuring out the identities. Ehhh, it’s there, but it’s not really as explored as it could have been. I like how the show called out the double standard on secret identities, but that doesn’t go anywhere either. Something that was the breaking point to me though was the complete shafting of Cat Noir. Adrien was such an interesting character and I’d argue in season 1, the two of them were both the stars of the show. I cannot say that for later seasons. The narrative treats Ladybug as if she is so much more important than Cat Noir over time and that really got on my nerves. The show wants to have its cake and eat it too, pretending it is building to something bigger and maturing with its audience while never having the balls to follow through. As a result it’s only becoming tired and more juvenile with each season (so I’m told). I have friends and family that have encouraged me to try the show again. Maybe I will after the fact, I don’t know. But I am a lot less consistently frustrated now that I have removed it from my life. I still have a fondness for the show, it really helped me through high school, but I just outgrew it. I would like to watch the movie, but I can’t say I love the show like I did freshman and sophomore year. It’s a shame the show had so much potential but never decided to act on it because it wanted to be contradictory based on fan responses. Maybe something like miraculous that lives up to the potential will come out someday, but as of now, I appreciate the time I spent with it. Thanks miraculous, it was nice while it lasted.
“The show wants to have its cake and eat it too, pretending it is building to something bigger and maturing with its audience while never having the balls to follow through” This is why I can never accept that it’s “just a kid’s show” when it’s clearly trying to be more than that.
This video deconstructs my feelings towards the show in such a thorough way. I don't think I will ever love show more than I did Miraculous during Season 1. But that feeling has long been burnt out of me, and only borderline irrational resentment remained. Thank you for this video. It was very cathartic. Also Grief was awesome, I loved her ❤
42:26. This might beme giving the show too much credit but i interpret Lila's goal as "causing chaos and pain is the goal in and of itself. All the better is if can get power and influence from that chaos". She doesn't have a defined objective. Just a state of being for the world around her. The reason she seems inconsistent is becomes "some people just want to watch the world burn" to quote the dark night.
Oh gosh...Grief is the word I was looking for when I was trying to figure out what I was feeling from learning how the show went...It was grief... I'm thirty-five year old woman. I started watching the show when I was in my mid twenties. I forgot about the show but occasionally came back to learn how the story progressed. And I just didn't know how to handle what I was feeling from learning S5 finale. This children's show that once brought so much joy to me (even as a grown-up woman)...it turned into something like... like... I'm still in love with the potential. Only the potential though. I gave it a chance and watched the London Special but... the show was already dead inside me. It is damaged to the core. I feel so empty. Not a good empty feeling but... Thank you for this video. I've watched a lot of rant videos about Miraculous Ladybug show, and your video here is one of the best...
I cannot agree with you more about Felix. Felis was suppose to be the wildcard. The one who's goals don't alight with either the hero or villain and does what is advantageous to himself at all times. His mere presence should make everyone wary of him and his plans. Now he's just a sad puppy we should feel sorry for.
When it got to the part about grieving for the love you once had for the show, I really felt that. Not only because I once loved the show myself, but I also somewhat recently went through accepting the same feelings for something else I once loved. I’ve always been strongly of the opinion that being a children’s show is no excuse for poor writing; children deserve good stories too. Thank you for this video, Gale 💖
Oh I get it, the beginning is her grieving She needs to talk about it to "move on" Clever Damn this video was really clever. I dont give two shts for Miraculous, but this script was gold!
I hopped off the boat of Miraculous a long time ago. But during the run of the 5th season, I felt like i owned my childhood self to actually try and catch up and see what was going on. At the very least i wanted to see my otp get together. That was a mistake, a show i didnt hate or love all that much. Some how left me baffled. The shows mistreatment of adrian, the weird mask off moments with the creator. Who got really weird about people wanting more from Adrian character. Which by the end i do hope the people disappointed with the show does make their own and he becomes a weird footnote. The leaks left me standing at the door of a fire I had no idea how it had started. After all that i made it to the very end and i never felt more happy that i didn't go into the burning house. I watched from afar as they tried to redeem hawkmoth. I watched the bar sink into hell and I thought "at the very least adrian cant be snub out of his literal character plot' i was wrong. An even if they are doing a 6th season. Im good, i'll do what i've been doing. Viewing from afar because being invested is simply not worth it. Plus just because its a kid show doesnt mean kids need to eat slop. We gotta stop leaning on that. Sometimes a show is simply shit and made with the barest bones and connections to anything. Sometimes its just not good no matter how much we want it to be. But they thats what fanfic is for!
What I find interesting is how there are clearly people on the show staff who tried to push back against Thomas's bad ideas. He was the director for all of season 1, but season 2 introduced a revolving door or different directors who work alongside Thomas. I have to assume they had a clearer vision for the show's direction, hence Chloé's redemption arc, but Thomas ultimately won, and that's why things took a nosedive. I bring this up because I find it hard to believe that everyone on staff is a complete moron. I have to assume there are competent people working on the show who get bogged down by Thomas and executives who don't care.
Interesting to see other people's takes, some I agree with and some I don't. The only thing I take exception to is the claim at the end that the morals are fine, for one reason: Chloé- ni she doesn't need to ne a hero or a good person. She doesn't need to 'win' but what we had in this *childrens show* was a child shown on screen going through actual child abuse and *then* the moral that was preached is that the *abused child* was the one at fault. The *abused child* was the one who *abused* her parent, and the *abused child* deserved to be sent off with the person so abusive that André divorced her. Just... Let that sink in. This is what was laid in front of children. If you are abused and act out at all l, you deserve it. Gross. That is enough in and of itself to be why my daughter won't ever watch past S3. She does *not* need that in her life. (I'm a parent who originally got into the show when my wife was pre-watching it for our kid) I don't mind talking morals through with my kid, but some things are better left untangled.
30 mins in and I love this! Great points made, fun editing, engaging scenes/acting, and just really nice commentary. I appreciate all the effort gone into this!
I'd recommend the Miraculous office AU. It expands on things from the PV replacing Adrien with Felix and building on critiques in canon. It's 14 parts on youtube, has catharsis, lets the characters figure things out, has confrontations, a tight cast, barely any akumatizations, hawkmoth is barely shown and builds mystery. I understand leaving the show proper. All of your points with s5 itself as well as the ending, the hippocracy with Chloe and how Lila is handled. While the au is in itself also unfinished, it is due to being made entirely by one person aside from the voice cast and watching the au has helped me heal from my issues with the main show in ways I didn't think was possible. I'd recommend it since it has a lot of the things I know a lot of people want from the show proper, hell I did too I still do going into and waiting for s6. There's no swapping miraculous, no reveal yet but there is a confession that isn't Marinette staring at her earrings and the characters do talk about their feelings to both each other and the audience in the mockumentary style since it's following the U.S. office. It only takes about 3 hours to get through not very long and has an anime esque style. It's a similar feeling to the Miraculous Awakening movie except as a singer I wasn't a big fan of the music being sung by someone who wasn't Cristina Vee as well as the awkward pacing and I hated the nickname 'watermelon' and severely missed 'm'lady' strange nitpicks I know. But the office au has more time to breathe than the movie and lets the characters have meaningful talks instead of just montages. And while they do have chemistry in both the movie and watered down chemistry in the show proper I still prefer the office au and I think you'd enjoy it Gale. Even if you give up on the show itself I'm begging you to at least leave with the office au by emzurl. Yes it's technically fanfiction which you mentioned needing to fill the pit after the series itself kept letting you down. but yeah that's all I wanted to say. No felix isn't a villain in it like you stated you enjoyed but it developed the romance in a more satisfying way in my opinion. I'm sorry for your loss I get you though. I relate to struggling with a lot of the issues and I want to hang on for the identity reveal.
Idk why this was the first thing that I noticed but at 0:17 we have FALLENGALE and at 0:45 FallenGale... Now I will allow myself to quote Cell from Dragon Ball Z Abridged: "It's fine, it's fine. It doesn't bother me, it doesn't bother me, it bothers me, it bothers me a lot."
Thank you for your comment. You see the confusion is between FALLENGALE the UA-camr and FallenGale the writer/actor. I'm a bit of a diva and needed to remind her I'm in charge here. (Actually those titles were edited on separate days and I didn't even notice.) Thanks for watching!
So ... this disastrous Show is how i came to this UA-cam Channel, and now, this UA-cam Channel is parting ways, or rather ranting ways with this disastrous show for good. ... I just kinda love how this has just gone and with this Video just ended up full circle, so yeah. I can't watch this right now because it's 1:40 AM in Germany and i have to work in 6 hours, but i will watch this right after i'm done and will enjoy listening to a ranting that will finally conclude this mess at last. ❤ Oh Miraculous ... feels like this end was destined for you from the beginning ... Ouch.
The show isn't disastrous, just because you didn't like the narrative. I've never heard a single concrete critique for the show whatsoever. It's only ever personal complaints and whines about how the characters are treated or how the plot has progressed.
@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 bro, get over yourself and stop defending this show. it is not worth it. as someone who's rewatching it from the beginning as a now young adult, this show fell off extremely hard after season 2 ended. And you're quite literally watching a video essay of someone critiquing the show and you're still acting clueless.
@@baoziday5178 Perhaps you should get over yourself and stop attacking a show which you don't even like. This show didn't fall off after season 2; the plot progression only became better because the show transitioned from an episodic style to a serialised one. And this video essay doesn't change that. Once again, it's merely another barrage of personal complaints. Authorial intentions are more important than the reader's whims, and the writers have done a superb job. This show succeeded because of its appealing characters, lore, and overarching story. It has millions of adoring fans around the world awaiting the next season. Is this the definition of a disastrous show? Surely, there are much worse shows out there that are actually worth mocking.
I said it once and I'll keep saying it for years after the show ends; miraculous ladybug is to children's cartoons what yandere simulator is to videogames
Watching Miraculous season 5 and seeing Felix get a redemption arc pissed me off tbh. Even one of the things Felix has done in miraculous is far worst than anything Chloe had done in the season 3 finale. Felix should deserve a redemption arc, but not without repercussions. Sure, everything he did was to free him and Adrien for Gabriel, but he endangered Paris substantially in the process: -He impersonated Adrien and got his friends akumatized -He impersonated Adrien AGAIN to get a miraculous, used said miraculous to get the miracle box to give to Shadowmoth -He impersonated Adrien FOR THE THIRD TIME, god rid of him and broke into a party where he caused a blood moon and killed everyone of Paris (he didn’t have to kill anyone either than Gabriel but he did anyway) -He then kidnapped Kagami against her will. *None of this he truly, apologized for except for kidnapping Kagami* YET, EVERYONE FORGAVE HIM??? Chloe has done some terrible things, don’t get me wrong but atp the show hates her if her measly team ups with Hawkmoth earns her a place on the black list. The show preaches forgiveness and love, which they’ll graciously show to Felix who is basically an on the run felon, but Chloe had a lash out and teamed up with Hawkmoth cuz Ladybug lied to her about not giving out miraculouses to people Hawkmoth knows the identity of and she’s suddenly far removed from ever achieving goodness. Now that’s not to say a character can’t revert back to old ways after a change, cuz realistically everyone can, but in Chloe’s case it felt a bit far removed from everything she learned in season 2-3. Even in Miracle Queen (S3) when she got upset about not getting her miraculous she calmed down and said she understood. So, at least for the season 3 finale she could do what she does but somewhere in season 4 after Zoe comes maybe Zoe becomes her anchor for change?
This really is a rant about miraculous’s inconsistency in terms writing of what deems a character irredeemable. We haven’t reached season 6 yet, but as far as the end card for season 5 goes….seems like anything Felix has done was forgivable. They might redeem Chloe but she’s probably never getting a supporting role again as a hero😅
you don't even need to analyse this all that far. the simple fact that he molested ladybug and was redeemed regardless makes it all so wonky. as if they were trying to make him unlikeable in the beginning only to backtrack now, as gale said. even disregarding the bad writing, it's very hard to ignore this detail honestly. as if we could ever forgive assault.
I love the amount of work that went into the intro xD!! Did not especially expect that coming from a ML rant video, they really went hard and it got me hooked immediately haha~
This video is so well made. so refreshing to see. i wish you a great day, mine has gotten better after watching this. thank you. (not even a miraculous fan lol)
As someone who has never seen an episode of the show and therefore has no cards in the game regarding its "rise and fall", this has been a very interesting video. Kudos for the filmed scenes, the format was really captivating.
Another reason Derision exists is to make fans stop bitching about Marinette's behavior being creepy. People constantly talk about how creepy her stalker behavior has been, so Astruc wanted to protect his fictional daughter (he's called her that himself) by saying "WELL HAH SHE DOES IT BECAUSE TRAUMA! NOW YOU CAN'T PISS ON HER! YOU DON'T WANNA BE MAD AT SOMEONE FOR BEING TRAUMATIZED DO YOU? THAT'D MAKE YOU AN AWFUL PERSON! SO QUIT BEING MAD!". Marinette in episode states "I'm never gonna confess my feelings to a boy before I know EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM!" as well as creepy things she did in previous episodes (knowing his schedule and so on). It's so obvious this episode only exists to make fans stop complaining. It wasn't planned which you can tell because she wasn't creepy with Luca, it was extremely tell don't show since that line was shoehorned in, it came way too late into the show, and it justifies her behavior.
Who are Rey's parents? Also derision was made only to make Marinette look less like a stalker. It didn't work and now it makes me think that astruck is a gacha kid.
With the name's part they could have easily solved it by saying these are the names for marketing and toys and not anything in-universe. The only character I'm fine with is Gabriel, Hawkmoth, Shadowmoth and Monarch are like a new era for him personally I feel, especially when he was Monarch
I'm watcing this video like twenty times by now hahaha Thank you once again for the rant!! Not just yelling rant, this is so genuine deep-thought rant, which why I keep watching it!
I 100% never bothered with this series but man i feel bad for you fans. being invested in a series that not only was a train wreck but also a massacre of the passangers, its so sad. The ONLY way to salvage the series is to reboot and not have that uh guy (you know him) to be part it. This is basically French rwby in terms of wasted potential and series rot. Okay maybe that last part is overblown
I keep coming back to this video and keep having new thoughts about it, like what constitutes an appropriate amount of drama for a kids show, which in my opinion includes the "Avatar the Last Airbender" Nickelodeon t.v. show specifically as the possible peak that Miraculous could have reached as far as character interactions and possible battle match-ups. It could have been the spiritual successor to Last Airbender, that's what I, an older, former fan of Miraculous saw when I was a fan, and since I share 95% of your thoughts on the show as you explained in your video, I don't think that I need to explain why I left the Miraculous fandom by and large.
Miraculous Ladybug is the latest in a trend of series setting up to deliever interesting nuanced character/plots to only just forget about them. Kind of like MHA. Lost was the first example in the "internet age" of disappointing to deliver on all the setups intrigue. Fans speculated and debated of all the meanings but the show just never delivered. This isn't even the fans grasping at straws; assuming every slightly moved prop is some devious genius deliberate setup, like the fans of Sherlock thought. This is a series deliberately drawing attention to plot threads and ideas but just not doing anything substantial with them. We all sat with baited breath for Chloe to get a redemption, for Chat Noir to finally call out Ladybug for sidelining him so much and for all the other longterm plots to be executed and they just fizzled out of existence. "Catharsis" was the correct word to use. I'd almost rather Miraculous just be a one-dimensional kids show with no overarching plot threads than to just half do it and leave us with nothing but disappointment.
I always think about how this show must have failed so spectacularly because the writers were aiming and expecting for a children’s audience, got surprised when older children, teens, and adults got invested, and then didn’t know how to pivot correctly. There are shows aimed for child audiences that aren’t written in a formulaic vacuum. They’re capable of the nuance of writing a show that’s not difficult for children to understand but also still intriguing for older audiences. And that kind of writing can make a show timeless (ie Avatar the Last Airbender, The Owl House, Steven Universe, etc etc). Those shows are targeted at younger audiences but have deeper themes woven in that can keep older audiences engaged and the children who grew up watching the show constantly coming back to appreciate the show as they age. MLB feels like when they made the pivot they couldn’t merge the idea of nuance. So as a result we get overly convoluted episodes for the “older audience” and flatter and more cookie cutter writing for “the child audience”. It leads to episodes with mixed writing too that only serve to further confuse the narrative and plot points brought up. A perfect example is Chloe: “she’s mean to Marinette and that’s the box she’s in, she’s our token mean girl for all the kids to hate.”, “Older audiences love redemption arcs… let’s pull Chloe out of the box and play with her some and throw in some real plot!” “Uh oh, they’re starting to think Chloe will be redeemed. But we ALREADY let all the kiddies know she’s the token mean girl… let’s dial way back to square one. I’m sure it’ll be fine…”
I was tempted to rant on seasons 4 and 5 as a whole, but decided only to rant on the finale because WOLF. It ruined the show as a whole for me. But thank you, for making miraculous videos me and my sister enjoy! I can't tell if there's gonna be more after this, or cute pokemon videos, but time will tell!
i paid attention to the video essay like i usually do, but i cant help but also pay attention about the real time filming because i love it so much (the composition and all that other stuff) ❤
There something that's been really bugging me. In a show that tries to embody and markets itself as a girl power show, it feels a little bit sexist that almost none of the evil female characters get redemption arcs but all the evil male characters do. Gabriel and Felix are pretty awful people and they get rushed redemption arcs (even Chloe's dad gets one). Meanwhile, Chloe has build-up to a redemption arc but that goes absolutely nowhere and Lila is always shown to be the worst. It's not that every character needs to have a redemption arc, I firmly believe that they should be used sparingly, but it just bugs me that it's almost always the male characters that get one.
The movie is better than the show: You can tell Jeremy and co did the best they could,sure it isn't flawless but it isn't have as much issues the show did,it did the opposite of it ,like Gab and Adriaan having a actual arc. Also I agree that Chloe deserved better character wise.
The movie is just as bad: Jeremy Zag has no originality in his writing or in his characters besides making Adrien superficial like he has never been and the "best" of Jeremy is mid
20:00 lmao I loved that episode but it's true. They didn't have the time to fully flash out the dream and they never really touch on it again and it's sad. It was finally a moment in the series where it wasn't the common ships of the triangle but instead they touched on Ladybug x Chatnoir finally after 4 seasons and it just ends there in that episode 😭 Like I'm happy at least they got together as civilians but why give us that episode if it's not going to affect anything else in the future...
From what I've gathered, this show is basically JoJo Part 4: Diamond is Unbreakable if it was French and terrible Two of the main characters have a create/destroy dynamic, the show entirely takes place in one city, random citizens of that city are turned into the villain of the week by an overarching antagonist, there's a girl who takes her crush on a boy to ridiculous lengths and it's never thoroughly addressed, there's a self insert for the author, there's an annoying character who goes between good and bad guy (although they can't blow her up because it's a kids show), the main villain's whole schtick is that no one knows that he's the bad guy, and also the guy has a "son" (imposter in JoJo's case) who gets wrapped up in the drama. It's like they read the manga and decided to make a cheap imitation with none of the creativity that also smashed several characters together.
1:09:55 I'm sorry, but showing anything Zoe Oneesama made while talking about chloé's potential depth/redemption as a character seems like a practical joke.
I'm still mad about why they did with Chloe I saw a Ladybug's review video weeks ago that said that as seasons went by, the presence of the best writers was been vanished as the worst one were more frequent in episodes so sad and so true how they treated so many characters and how they want us to like marinette at absolutely all her moments that's not possible I'm sorry
"If you don't like the Love Square, then why are you here?" Because I thought the Kwamis were a cool concept and got attached to certain characters. That's about it.
Me too. I was more in the miraculouses/kwamis and the powers they granted. I'm also a sucker for animal themed heroes.
Yeah, pretty much.
I've invested the better half of a decade into this show so I'm not stopping now but, it's painful to for so many reasons.
The concepts and dynamics are amazing, but most importantly is the potential, and that's what the biggest draw for me is. The way it's executed in the episodes is just horrendous and painful to watch. But I keep coming back, and I'm obsessed with this show because of the concepts that are just, so cool
I thought it was gonna be an action adventure with them going all over the world for lore reasons
Same I didn't care as much with the love square. Actually I didn't even know it was a "love square" until I saw a video essay about it. I just thought it was a fun idea of a couple that loved a separate version of themselves
No literally I like the adventure of the monsters
i find it funny that apparently felix, who used his miraculous to summon the most dangerous sentimonster ladybug has seen throughout her entire position as a superhero, gets redeemed. meanwhile, chloe rejected an akuma TWICE, and somehow she’s the worse person
Edit: some of these replies really don’t get the point of my comment
no, chloe is not a great example of a how to write a failed redemption arc, you’re on serious copium if you believe this. if the intent is to make her evil but she’s no longer a very prominent villain for future seasons, thats not accomplished you just decided you just dont want to use the character anymore. chloe is never taken seriously in seasons 4 and 5. if you really want to make someone evil, make them good at it. don’t make them cartoonishly evil when you developed them to be a prominent character.
felix & lila had everything chloe was supposed to be: a cunning villain that could be taken seriously if the writers wanted to but they didn’t. i’m not saying chloe should’ve been the new hawk moth, but she should’ve been much more important than just a pawn in someone else’s shoes.
the dream is her getting redeemed though: because people LOVE this concept and how she was written in style queen and miracular. why not have her work to get the bee miraculous back? it’s proven she’s able to withstand against an akuma. and while she hates waiting to have the bee miraculous, she was still willing to listen to ladybug. the only reason she snaps is that when ladybug tells her she can’t be queen bee anymore. this character flaw of chloe wanting attention more than anything else: this envy that’s kept in her heart, can be fixed. its one of her goals to protect people though..but her desire for attention is whats holding her back. she’s frustrsted on both ends; the fact she can’t get the attention she deserves and protect the people she loves? maybe miracle queen would’ve actually been a good episode to start off that redemption arc if chloe just decided to give up the miracle box: but no just..scrap her i guess!! that moment just felt so out of character and stupid for her.
the point is: the writers gave felix what they should’ve given to chloe: the realization of what they’re doing is wrong and the motivation to become better people based on what we know about them as characters. that is a huge blunder writing-wise. its not just about whether shes redeemed or not, its the writers forgetting she exists for those ideas.
Yeah, one of my friends pointed out that Felix was only this way because his father was abusive, but at the same time, they threw that shit in so randomly with no build up at all.
And as someone whose father was abusive, you don't see me killing everyone on the planet
Felix also rejected an akuma
Chloe became a superhero for the fame not because she's a good person, she decided to become evil because ladybug didn't give her a miraculous
Felix was broken from the beginning and realised he was wrong when he talked with ladybug and found his freedom
Chloe was a bully from the beginning for no reason ( her mom doesn't have any connection with Chloe being a bully )
In conclusion, Chloe became evil because she chose to be evil and felix realized he was wrong and became a good guy
@@falconanddragons2214 are you a senti monster who got created by Envy?
“chloe being a bully has no connection to her mom” hello?? style queen?? did we watch the same episode??
chloe looks up to her mom as a role-model: imitating the way she acts because thats all she knows and mainly because her mom is barely around. this comment sounds like the stupid comment mylene made about her.
while she did want to become a superhero for the fame, you have to account the times she genuinely has desire to help people. literally in all her times as queen bee in seasons 1-3 she’s been trying her best to perform the way she could and has been completely loyal to ladybug. the fact she rejected an akuma not once but TWICE proves that she is capable of keeping the bee miraculous in safe hands. she’s frustrated on not getting it not just because she wants it but because she *needs* it to protect people like her father and her best friend from getting goddamn akumatized. this is a sole character trait the writers completely removed from her in miracle queen.
the point i’m making(and also op’s point) is that her story should not be downplayed compared to felix. she is a much more established character that should’ve gotten that sort of redemption felix had but the writers forgot she existed and just straight up made her evil for the stupidest reason to erase her character for future seasons.
@whizzermania what i meant is having a bad mother doesn't make her a bully
You literally said what i said but offensively
Chloe wants attention
She copied her mom to get her attention
Copied ladybug yo get her attention and approving and when she failed she copied hawk moth
Saying that she was trying to help people as queen be while she was bullying him as Chloe is as dumb as your mylen comment
She didn't want the miraculous to protect her loved ones , she barely loves them, she bullied her father countless times how is that loving
Also slaving Sabrina
She is not a monster but her main goal isn't the greater good but her own ass thus making her unqualified for the miraculous
Rejecting the akuma isn't because she is good but because she have a strong will
The akumas aren't evil, hawk moth use theme in evil ways
Also go back and watch everything Chloe did in that episode it literally debunked your hole point
"a show deserves to be reviewed for what it is, not what it could've been"
These words always circle my mind whenever I talk about it, and that last bit about greif truly resonate, I always saw miraculous as a show for everyone, and the uniqueness of what it brought to the table i didn't see anywhere else, but Alas.
Chloé is unironically a perfect representation of the show at large,
You love her potential, but it goes to maliciously waste to disappoint you, and you can't help but mourn what could've been
i love the part where ladybug says "what are we? some kind of miraculous ladybug?" and then chat noir says "maybe the miraculous ladybug was the friends we made along the way" and then they both miraculoused the ladybug all over the place. truly one of the moments of all time
“This is a miraculous video I don’t think we need to try that hard” with a 2 hour runtime perfectly encapsulates my thoughts on this series
Ngl, got emotional when you revealed that you were grieving the lost of loving the show as you once did. That somehow hurt ME - just IMAGINING how that feels is heart wrenching 😭
Especially when she specifically showed the 5 stages of grief. I was like what 😮😢
The derailment of Chloe's redemption arc is what killed the series for me. She was the best written character of the show with the most amount of tangible character development and consistency in her writing, but Astruc has a hate boner for her and just had to ruin everything surrounding her narrative!
But what made me stop watching the show altogether (even hate watching like I was in season 4) was Marinette! She is such a hypocrite and condescending bastard towards Chat Noir (and Chloe), but the narrative never acknowledges that, so she gets away with everything! The only interesting thing the show ever did was make Gabe win at the end of season 4 and make him get all the Miraculous, but my interest in the series was long gone at that point. And from the reviews I saw of season 5, I'm glad I did not waste any time watching the show.
Tbh, I was intrigued with the idea of chloe becoming a villain, but the writers intentionally wrote her as an incompetent villain, which basically wasted her character potentially completely as both a hero and a villain.
She literally said at the end of season four that she was wrong about chat noir and that is why she lost the miraculous
She has flaws because she is not perfect and got punished for that in the end of season 3 and 4
Chloe is , was , and will be a bad person who just wants attention and only want to change when she becomes desperate, once she have the upper hand she convertes to a monster, abuse Sabrina, danger the lifes of the people in the bus , and help hawk moth because ladybug didn't give her a miraculous she got by the fault in the first place
Even master fu was worry about giving Chloe the miraculous but mari had some hope in her ,
It's very normal for someone to be on the way of changing and chose to return to square zero , it's not a bad writing, you people just like cheap redemption arcs and can't see the signs of it's failing even before it start
@@SkEi-y3b Chloe not being redeemed isn't the problem. The problem is the fact that nothing interesting came from it. The writers kept telling us how evil and irredeemable chloe is instead of making her an actually competent and fun villain. Also, you're one to talk about gobbling up cheap redemption arcs when you happily gobbled up felix's half-baked redemption arc. Speaking of which, felix doesn't deserve to be redeemed or keep the peacock miraculous. He literally did the same things that chloe did (and more worse stuff) and didn't even try to make up for the mistakes he made.
@usernotfound_____yet i didn't say i liked half baked redemption Felix
I liked his redemption because it made sense after knowing the agrest story
I said people like redemption arcs and that's why they don't accept it failing
We are not talking about what happened after Chloe failed redemption arc we are talking about it being good or bad
And since you said you have no problem with it that means my point has proven
@usernotfound_____yet it could have had better continuation but the writers are lazy af
Derision is more than laughing at trauma. Astruc took every criticism aimed at Marinette and established It as Chloe's fault. I can hear him behind the scenes of derision going like "See? You said Marinette was creepy? WELL IT'S ALL CHLOE'S FAULT *EVIL LAUGHTER". Astruc even went out his way to revisit the statue scene, the scene everyone agrees It was too much and made It the point Adrien started liking Marinette! This is just beyond baffling. There is seriously no possible way to even put how ridiculous this is into words. The man falls asleep thinking of ways of proving people on twitter wrong
But how dare we criticize his daugh... I mean main protagonist. Apparently we are in the wrong for calling out Marinette's actions that are very cause of concern and wanting to see Thomas's bull... I mean the evil blonde girl have a redemption. I will never get over that
You'll have to try I quite like that scene and I quite like how it was revisited
@@thanatosdriver1938 The statue scene? Don't you think It is borderline sick and creepy how she just kisses a statue that resembles the boy she likes? I guess to each his own, but regardless, It is still sickening
@ is it sick and creepy? Sure. But I still find it very endearing. If that were me she was doing that do I’d feel very badly telling her that I’m gay.
@@thanatosdriver1938 Regardless of your personal opinion, the point is the intention behind Astruc's motivation. He is doing that to annoy his supposed "haters".
God I will never not be mad about Chloe. Why write her towards that route just to do a complete 180 like all that development lead to nothing.
Because Astruc hates the character he created and he equated Chloe's fans with abusive partners or something among those lines.
Because she didn't become a good person in the first place
They made you think she has grown but she didn't change
She only wants fame and power not being good
She only acts good when her life is in danger or with ladybug so she trust her with the miraculous
Even if you think she became better and suddenly changed
They didn't throw her development in garbage, instead they made a villain who will keep making marinette remember her mistake with her and her failure to help Chloe become better
Chloe failed redemption arc could have made her a great written villain
@@SkEi-y3b You're just parroting Astruc's gaslighting when he tried to justify butchering Chloe's character development.
Chloe was improving little by little, one step at a time, becoming less selfish and even protecting people with her self-esteem against Howkmoth's Scarlet Akumas without expecting anything in return.
She even did crowd control, using her (in)fame as Queen Bee during Star Train to get everyone out of the train car where the Akuma appeared.
It doesn't matter how much Astruc or people like you try to gaslight the audience, Chloe was walking the path of redemption and had no business being a villain!
@TwilightWolf032 first i didn't read any of astruc statements
I don't have Facebook or twitter
Second, i never said Chloe wasn't walking on the good path
I said she walked on it for ladybug and her acknowledgement
Even when scarlet moth she was trash talking rena and telling ladybug she would disappoint her
Chloe started to become good but once she saw ladybug stopped giving her the miraculous she turned to be evil because hawk moth gave her the attention she wanted the miraculous for in the first place
Im not gaslighting anything and you should be more respectful while comments and respect different opinions
What's the point of making a story in the same way as everything in any other cartoon
You expected Chloe's redemption but got suprise by her becoming evil
Her failed redemption had more evidence in season 2 and 3 than an actual redemption but you can't see it because something doesn't happen the way you wanted it to be
Chloe had a great potential to be a great villain and that is something disturbing you even if it has so much evidence
@TwilightWolf032 aslo in star train she was showing off people that she was a superhero
I mean who tf on Paris doesn't know what the akuma is
If you can't see the difference between someone showing off and someone actually trying to help i really don't expect you to be less rude than what you are in your comment
I like Hawkmoth up to season 3, he was a bad father, but you could make enough of a case that he's just a desperate man blinded by the power that could potentially fix his broken life - you had room to write a redemption arc or a damnation arc if that's what you wanted to of; if you take the actualy time to develop it. And, you know, some of us were majorly coping that Chat Blac was just the result of a lot fo story needing to be gone over in a short time and that when Gabriel actually got the Chat Noir reveal for real, we'd see a lot more of him grappling with it.
Problem is, the show never wants to delve into him and treats him as two seperate characters (The Evil Villain and the Grieving Father) fighting over the drivers seat for whatever is convient for the current scene rather than the scene just naturally bringing out different sides of him. I think even Astruc said that it was impossiable to get a flashback episode or any deeper exploration of Gabriel's relationships because that would break the formula of the show (even though many shows with a simmilar formula have managed to pull that off with multiple characters) and take the focus away from Marinette, so all we get is just him repeating that he needs to bring his wife back.
We don't know anything about his relationship with Emilie, we don't know about what he was like before she died, we don't know if there's any backstory that might help fuel his obsessions. The show implies that he was alledgedly a better father before Emilie's passing (though still sheltered his kid?), but we never see any of that, so it's easy to assume that this is all his default state. The mechanic of the villain is that he has a blank page to basically bring out any power and narrative excuse you need, and you can't think of a way for that to mannifest as a vehicle for character development?
Season five is where a lot of the time I didn't really get why he'd do some of the shit he did outside of the plot just needing him to be in Marinette's way. Like, I don't really see why he's so obsessed with Kagami and Adrien getting together and making them global icons. Even just writing it off as a snob/ego thing just feels like not enough, especially when the writing is intending to keep him somewhat symapthetic in the end. Maybe they should have focused on on the angle that Tomoe has basically all the leverage in their partnership now - she knows eveything, she's the supplier of all the resources and advantaced technology he needs, she's the one keeping Nathalie semi-alive and if she wanted she could threaten his entire family. Really hammer home that sense of 'I've realized too late how far I've fallen' if you want a chance at making the current ending work.
Really, I think what Miraculous really needed was more villains. Hawkmoth/Gabriel stretches his character thin needing to fufill all these different boxes that would be better served by just introducing some third parties who have no affiliation with the Agreste storyline. We already have non-miraculous super heroes, mythical monsters and mentions by Bunnix of alien/interdimensional conquerours; you can find other sources of villainy to fight against. Plus, having other villains means we don't see Hawkmoth constantly losing and looking ineffective outside of season finals.
Hey yeah, more villains would actually have been pretty cool! Even just something petty, like a catwoman ripoff but they somehow got the dog miraculous or whatever. Have them mess with Chat Noir for comedic effect.
36:31, that's my problem. If anything, she's worse than season 1. They treat her like she's the incarnation of evil when she's just a high school mean girl, especially when there are villains legitimately 10x worse than her in actions
Even our female main protagonist is worse than her 😒
She helped hawk moth by her own will
She wants attention, if ladybug didn't gave her that and hawk moth did , she will be with him
Also she nearly killed the people on that train when she got the bee miraculous
@SkEi-y3b
Felix- tried to non consensually kiss ladybug, snapped practically all of Paris out of existence, also betrayed ladybug
Andre- mostly responsible for why Chloe is like this, has done corrupt things even without her influence
Mr. Agreste- watch the show
(I admit, I honestly forgot the train thing, even then her point was to try and save the train...didn't work, but still she wasn't crashing a train for evulz.
@madysonslays9662 she literally puts everyone there in danger just for the fame and got mad she failed
She wasn't good when she became queen be , she wanted queen be to be famous
Felix got created by envy
Andre thought he was making his daughter life better by giving her everything ( something alot of parents fall for )
Even Gabriel had a better reason to be evil
All of the people you described have one thing makes them different from chloe
They saw an evidence that the are horrible and decided to be better people to do what right not because of fame or people accepting them like chloe
Chloe tried to be good for Adrian and ladybug and tired to be evil for her mom and hawk moth thus making her motives personal
Felix knew he was wrong after seeing mari trying to help Adrian and talking with ladybug and decided to help her
Andre knew he did so many horrible things for Chloe and Audrey and decided to put someone better than him as a mayor
Even gabe made a pure wish that doesn't destroy the universe sacrificing his life to save Natalie knowing she will be a better parent than him even though he could have brought Emily back
My point is those people did the right thing for a good reason thus getting redeemed
Chloe had personal motivation to do what is good and the moment that motivation had gone she became evil again
I can't believe how simple this argument is yet people still don't understand it
It's not about how horrible the actions are , it's about what is your motivation to do the right thing
Agreed. It truly just feels like Astruc and the writers are doing it just to spite us smh.
The ending actually made me tear up a bit. The feeling of grieving a love lost for something you really enjoyed hurts bad. But I still really liked the movie, I'll hold on to that.
I will never forgive Marinette for continuing Adrien's abuse by lying that his father was a hero. I don't care if she's 14! I don't care if Gabriel 'manipulated' her! You would think that someone who is seen as the greatest Ladybug ever, she would think twice about lying that the ma$$ m*rdering terrorist who abused his own son and her boyfriend and locked him up in a white t*rture chamber was a hero this whole time! She has literally no reason to lie for him, since he tried to destroy her career as a designer to break her and Adrien up, and he paralyzed and stole from her!
Frankly, I pray to God that Lila reveals everything so Marinette will have to deal with some consequences and so Adrien might finally get some character development. With this writing though, I don't know.
Agreed!
Right? I am so sick and tired of people defending the crap out of MariSuenette. Even Steven Universe at a much younger age knew better! Pinocchio may have been just born, but he suffered consequences still despite not knowing any better. Because that’s how he learned. Marinette deserves five seasons worth of consequences on a tsunami level.
@ I wouldn’t be as angry, if she'd get the salt treatment like the class and Adrien did over Chameleon, but she doesn’t and this situation is way worse than that! And frankly it just makes Marinette into a giant hypocrite for both Gabriel and Lila since she gets on Lila for lying for her own benefit and Gabriel for his mistreatment of Adrien, but she’s also willing to lie for her own benefit while keeping Adrien emotionally and psychologically dependent on his father which is a form of mistreatment.
And i dont have trust enough it gets him into a villain arc when he realized everyone lied to him especially about that and stick wit hrightfully, blaming marinette.
THIS OMFG, I HATE HER AND GABRIEL SO MUCH.
33:00 having Zoé come out by giving her a crush on Marinette is kinda lazy IMO - this is the Everyone Loves Marinette Show after all.
I spent the whole episode thinking Zoé had a crush on Alya - because she actually had a unique interaction with her as backup Ladybug and Chat Noir!
Also also, isn't it weird how Rose and Juleka are supposedly dating yet aren't allowed to explicitly say they're together, but the cheap Chloé knock-off whom the fan community overall dislikes is allowed to come out? It doesn't feel like Zoé came out because the writers genuinely wanted a queer female character in the show
Honestly, with the idea of Lila having these multiple identities... how do we even know that Lila isn't some thirty year old woman in secret crushing on a teenager?
I suspect it's actually the reverse and that she's actually really really young about Manon's age
@@thanatosdriver1938 Please don't etell me you believe in the "Manon is Lila" theory
@@falconanddragons2214 I think there's good grounding for it and I buy it
Yeah, I can only hope it was because she was after money, not Adrien, but even then, there are BETTER WAYS of going about that plan that DON'T involve an adult woman grooming a teenager.
oh god not again
Even though it’s being argued more consistently that Chloe didn’t really change all that much in S2 and 3 (and I’m starting to somewhat agree with them) that doesn’t erase the fact that Chloe’s treatment (character wise) in S4 and 5 was abysmal.
Not only was her past experiences of abuse downplayed but Marinette’s stalking tendencies was all blamed on her (and Kim but for some reason he still gets to be a hero while she doesn’t-)
For some reason in S5 specifically, she’s written to be dumbed down. (This is the same girl that nearly defeated Mayura by herself-). If Chloe was going to become a villain, the least they could have done was make her own force of nature. And yes, her becoming a puppet for Lila is a parallel to how she treated Sabrina but you’re meaning to tell me that CHLOE didn’t have a single dispute or argument with Lila while they worked together?? She just complied with everything??
And to top it off, this random ass girl from New York comes in and replaces her in her OWN LIFE and everyone else who was arguably worse than her (not counting Lila) are treated with more nuance than Chloe (most of them even got redemption arcs which is pure bullshit.)
And don't forget how they made her not being able to spell basic words anymore
I imagine that Lila was good at managing her and at this point, she could be so broken by her father that she's be much easier to 'manage'
My entire bug bear with Zoe is that her entire character is blatantly the logical conclusion of what could have been the rest of chloe's character arc chopped off at the knee and mushed into anouther person.
Entirely because thomas austruc is so petty about the idea of someone he willingly based on a childhood bully
and this is why you shouldn't let a petty loser come up with the concept of a failed cartoon
I'll admit when I found about the Ending of Season 5 from the leaks, I just gave up. I wasn't apart of the ride from the beginning (that was somewhere between Seasons 2-3), but once I got on I was super into it as I do with past fascinations (reading fanfics, comics, having story ideas in my head that usually stay there, etc.) But then I started thinking about critically and the more I did the less I fell out of "love" with Miraculous.
Every bad decision, Every stupid choice, Each blow I took because I wanted to see how it all ends. And of course that final blow (the Victory of the Main Unsympathetic Villain, the Idiocy of our Main Heroine, the Sidelining of our other Main Hero, and the absolute, sheer AUDACITY of the Story to tell me this was a Happy Ending), it was just too much for my heart and soul, my sanity, my time and energy to bare. And so, I said it (metaphorically of course). Those 8 Deadly Words. "I Don't Care What Happens To These People." And after my grief, I felt...freeing? Sure, maybe I'll take a peak to see what new terrors await others, but knowing that I that I can just end it here and go on to something more worthwhile, was good. It was ok. I will be ok. And so will everyone who decides to drop Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir. (Full Title, Babes!)
I hope this didn't come across as pretentious. Anyway, thank you for coming to my TEDtalk! XD
Boo hoo, a story doesn't go the way that the reader wants. That's not a critique; that's immature slander.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 You confuse me my friend. How is someone not liking how a story went not critique?
@@afloatingshoppinglist7013 That's because the author's intentions aren't supposed to satisfy the reader's whims. The author has a specific narrative in mind that they wish to share. Complaining about how that narrative isn't the same as your own idealised version of the story doesn't mean that the narrative has problems. The ending of season 5 serves as a crucial turning point for the next seasons. It was the result of a specific set of events that were intended from the very beginning.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 But the narrative does have problems. Several actually (honestly too many to count.). If the story's bad regardless of the author's intentions, then I don't have to continue it. Why are you complaining that someone doesn't like it?
@@afloatingshoppinglist7013 I have no problem with you disliking the show, because I respect your opinion. I do have a problem with you calling the show bad, just because you didn't like what the author had in store for the audience.
Everyone we know in the show is dead and the villain, that MONSTER, is hailed as a hero, truly this is the darkest timeline. I stepped away from this show for about a year or so and came to this video to see what season 5 was about since I dropped of at the season 4 finale and I have to say that I agree with you about there being so many missed opportunities. It's so close to being good and it drops the ball HARD and that is what sticks out to us older, former fans of the show. I've read some Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir fanfiction and the ones that I've read are really good. The show works well as a concept and clearly the official show-runners care more about making bank than giving their audience, both young and old, what they want which is on screen character interactions, characters that aren't dumb, and proper payoff on the major plot points that THEY set up.
Additionally, thinking about it, the show I believe could have benefited from some sort of third party anti-hero character or villain organization to act as questions for our lead characters, like what are the heroes willing to sacrifice to win? (i.e. someone's life to stop the bad guy from doing bad things) or what do our heroes do when there's more than one person in charge of doing bad things? (i.e. Marvel's Hydra organization) or maybe (and this might be dark for a modern kids show, but Avatar the Last Airbender covered it somewhat) how do the heroes respond to needing to actively put the villain down permanently?, do they accept it as a necessary sacrifice?, do they try to find a way out? do some of our heroes die fighting for a non-lethal option and the others have to pick up the pieces, the mess, and carry on once the fighting is over or furiously keep fighting because the thing that killed their friend is still trying to kill them?
All of this is assuming that their miraculous get-out-of-involuntary-man-slaughter-charges-and-consequences-free ladybug card is out of commission for whatever reason
p.s. If these questions about death in the show have already been asked, I apologize for re-asking those questions.
@CrochetWhiteLion
I have a million thoughts and questions that aren't really going to be well organized here, so heads up
I feel that the show dips into these just a little bit in some episodes, but the cleansing spell Ladybug uses to reset everything cuts off any sort of exploration and closure. The infamous Chat Blanc episode for instance, dealt with the death of *everyone*, and it was either the New York special or Shanghai where there was actual lasting damage that needed to be rebuilt in Paris. Did people die there too?
What if they pull a Marvel and have an alternate universe Gabriel come in to essentially take over the role of the Gabriel that died, therefore making his death null? I don't see why they would do that, but who knows.
I am still baffled that all of this is happening because an old man chose to put the fate of the world into the hands of two teenagers that helped him up on the street
@@deathonwheels1355 And that's fine, all your points have merit. I'm just a former fan of the show who's tastes in content have changed significantly since the time I could honestly call myself a fan, preferring darker "learning to become better" stories, one example from the top of my head is God of War "Norse Saga" and Epic the Musical, and would like for the next generation of children to experience great stories in the media that caters to their age demographic. Wishful thinking? Maybe? I don't think I'm wrong to want the stories the next generation is first exposed to to have important life lessons like "don't trust compulsive liars or confirmed criminals." and spend a great deal of time on that lesson while making it fun because IT'S A BAD IDEA TO TRUST A COMPULSIVE LIAR AND A CONFIRMED CRIMINAL! MARINETTE! THAT SEASON FINALE STILL HAS ME SOOOO MIFFED BECAUSE TO ME, IT TELLS CHILDREN THAT IT'S FINE TO LET VILLAINS DO AS THEY PLEASE BECAUSE THEIR WARPED MIND CAN SOMEHOW FRANKENSTEIN TOGETHER A BETTER VERSION OF REALITY THAT WILL "IMPROVE" THE LIVES OF EVERYBODY WHEN THAT LESSON IS FAR FAR FAR FROM SAFE AND REALISTIC. IT'S NOT SAFE, LOGICAL OR PRUDENT TO LET A SERIAL KILLER DO AS THEY PLEASE BECAUSE THEY KILL TO IMPROVE SOCIETY.
I'm sorry for dumping all that on you, if you want, feel free to ignore my cries of impotence. They start after "MARINETTE!".
I cannot agree more with you. And I also can’t agree more with your first statement. Gabriel was truly a monster regardless of his backstory and reasoning. Speaking on all the awful things he’s done to so many people not even just the citizens of Paris. He’s harmed other parts of the world as well. Truly massive evil monster who harmed so many lives. And literally destroyed all lives and the world we know. That’s enough to make it awful that he’s praised as a hero.
But also, what upsets me so much is that he was abusive to Adrien. And as much as a fan of the show or character can defend it saying he wasn’t physically abusive just emotionally (which shouldn’t be the bar and it doesn’t make it better) this isn’t even fully true.
As we see that when he finds out Adrien is Chat Noir (in Chat Blanc) he beat him across Paris. So he is indeed willing to physically harm him kid.
And now that kid praises his abuser as a hero. It’s messed up and tone deaf on so many levels.
Hey hey whoa whoa whoa. The guy who assumed his cousin's identity to get touchy with said cousin's crush is apparently more redeemable than a high school mean girl?? *I'm sorry?¿?*
I am so happy you brought up the whole Lila issue cuz people have been going on about hwo cool she is and she's o much smarter and better than hawk moth especially in the new London special but like I can't take her character serious with the amount of plot armour and bending backwards the show does to make her seem like this huge villain who's smarter than everyone when she's really not.
RIGHT LIKE, you mean to tell me that a girl that has never used a miraculous before managed to not only get both ladybug and cat noir’s but all in her first try too
The production quality of this video?!?! 🤯
Well done! Great points were made, the background music played so nicely with what you were going for, and clever storytelling!
And yes, I'm in the Chloe revolution as well 🇨🇵
I'm sorry that you and so many others were disappointed by the way this show turned out. I never allowed myself to become a fan or invest myself in the show's shenanigans to the point of getting so emotionally invested. I know the pitfalls and am disappointed from the plethora of missed opportunities, but I'll never be on the level of true fans such as yourself.
I can, however, understand the loss of something you held so dear. And I'm glad you had the chance yo articulate those complicated feelings.
Thank you for sharing ❤
16:52 I actually liked that akumas got reused unlike the typical monster of the week format. I just wished the writers went further with the idea. That each re-akumatization strengthened the akumatized person, that they retained more of their memory, that it in some way CHANGED / developed them as a character.
M. Pigeon 72 would have been a perfect chance to explore that idea. 72 akumatizations in ONE year! How can you tell me he's NOT BENEFITING from that in some way. After 3 times I would think a person would get anger management training. After 10 times I would think the law enforcement would demand it. SEVENTY-TWO TIMES and he's just begging for any opportunity to get power himself.
All of that just for the pigeons, what a dedicated man.
Gabriel getting a redemption and a full blown statue really broke me. Season 4 and 5 Gabe had really started to seem more manipulative and abusive. I figured that if the show didn’t have the guts to punish him properly, he would at least get some form of confrontation with Adrien like he did in the movie that would allow him to realize how wrong he was. (Even if there were several timelines showing that Gabe would immediately abuse Adrien upon finding out he’s Cat Noir.)
I really hate the finale for the unintentional message it sends to children who may or may not be in abusive home or situation. Adrien is 13 by the end of season 5 and I can’t get over how Marinette is only ever going to feed Adrien words about his father that he wants to hear. Gabriel literally locked him and Kagami in white rooms under the influence of nightmares with no means of escape unless the two decided to get married. Absolutely disgusting.
I think I’m really only going to watch season 6 to see if Adrien’s ignorance to his father’s true a true will be addressed. Knowing this show though, I shouldn’t get my hopes up.
When you talked about your grief with the show, I really felt that. I stopped actively watching Miraculous after the conclusion of Season 3 just because it was so unnecessarily difficult to watch as it aired, but I was still involved in the fandom. I read hundreds of thousands of words of fanfiction, I browsed fan theories and made my own, and the realization that what I loved most about the show is gone (or hell, was not even there to begin with)? That HURT. It REALLY hurt.
Miraculous Ladybug, oh what a tale,
With superheroes that often fail.
A plot so tangled, it makes no sense,
Repetitive themes, just pure pretense.
A cat and a lady, both in disguise,
But their love story, it's built on lies.
They fight, they save, but can't ever win,
For the villains come back again and again.
The heroes are clueless, they never learn,
With each battle, there's no real return.
The magic's recycled, the drama's too sweet,
It’s the same thing again, just on repeat.
Characters with flaws, but no growth at all,
They make the same mistakes, every time they fall.
Their love's in the air, but never quite real,
And the answers to problems are too hard to feel.
So let’s face the truth, let’s set things right:
Miraculous Ladybug, it’s not a delight.
A show full of fluff, with no real heart,
A never-ending cycle, where do we start?
Was this made by Cyrus the great?
@usernotfound_____yet No. I wrote this since I'm good at making poem.
This poem is entirely inaccurate. It's been quite some time since you've watched the show, isn't it?
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 Nope. I've recently seen the 5th season and the London Special.
So I don’t even watch the show like at all but I’ve been in the fandom or rather the corner of it that focuses on what couldve been and I think this is what I needed to hear. Precanon miraculous is extremely rich in potential and concepts, but if the writing team fumbled *this* hard on a show with even simpler characters, plot and ideas, then Precanon would have arguably been done even worse. This was a wake up call for me to accept that… but also continue to pour that love I have for it into my fan work. There may not have been a Precanon show, but that’s a saving grace. I don’t think I could handle it if Precanon was made into what’s basically pj masks but with terrible morals and iffy at best designs.
You're judging a show without any knowledge about it at all.
well, I know that from what I’ve seen, I don’t think I wouldn’t have liked it at all because the male lead was not who I wanted to be the male lead, and is instead a character that makes me actively frustrated. I don’t like Adrien, so I doubt I’d ever like actually watching five seasons with him.
@@lyrastarstriker7304 I'm sorry, but the author doesn’t cater to the readers' whims. Adrien's character arc as the male lead was intended from the very beginning. If you were to watch the show, you would find that Adrien is a sympathetic yet resilient character who's willing to sacrifice himself in order to impress Ladybug. That desire is meant to fill the chasm left after his mother's passing. Under the watchful but abusive eye of his father, he needs to prove his own self-worth by defying him (although his nature as a sentimonster impedes that) and saving the world in the process. What's not to like? If you were to actually watch the show, you'd realise that the dynamics and progression of the show's plot and characters are quite distinct from how many misrepresent them.
what’s not to like is quite a few things, in my case. my problem is that I wanted pv/Precanon Felix and his chat noir design, personality, character arc and general vibe. Canon is such a downgrade design wise because Felix has something that Adrien doesn’t for me: Visual storytelling. In the original pv, Felix has a put together formal appearance and very visible angst and a colder personality, but what makes him so intriguing to me is that when Felix transforms into Chat, his hair gets wilder and brighter, the collar on his design is significantly more popped than Adrien’s design. There’s other reasons why I don’t like Adrien, and his character simply makes me too angry and has been ruined for me to care anymore. I simply do not want to give this canon show a second chance. I was neutral on him before, but now I can’t even see art of him without kind of getting disappointed.
I’m pretty sure I’ve said this online before somewhere, maybe even multiple times, but watching and following Miraculous honestly felt like an abusive relationship.
It started off normal and enjoyable, but somewhere in season 3 things shifted and by the finale of that season the series finally showed its true colors.
However, despite that, I and many others stuck around, because we were already in too deep. We were invested in the story that was set up competently in seasons 1 and 2, we grew to care for the characters and wanted to see where they would go, and so we kept watching.
And then seasons 4 and 5 kept doing this manipulative tactic where they showed genuine improvement and promise for a better future, getting our hopes up, only to tear them down later by regressing worse and worse each time.
“Yeah, season 3’s finale was awful, but Marinette’s arc as guardian, Alya’s integration into the team and Chat’s jealousy towards the other heroes could all be very interesting.”
Then; “Okay, maybe the show’s excessive vilifying of Chloé is getting way too intrusive and honestly not enjoyable either for Chloé fans or haters, but she’s probably just the exception, because Astruc is weird like that. We can just ignore her and focus on anything else.”
And then; “Okay yeah, they kinda fumbled everything from season 4, but look at how season 5 is doing! Like, the writers are definitely locked in for the conclusion to the Agreste arc.” (They even gave us my personal all time favorite episode - Passion.) But we all know where that eventually led.
The season 5 finale was my personal breaking point with this show, just like how it was for you. I’m not gonna be following season 6 and beyond, or anything else tied to this continuity that they decide to release. I even skipped the AU special, despite the positive feedback for it, because I just couldn’t care less.
Miraculous is one of extremely few (particularly non-Cartoon-Network-related) things that grabbed my attention as strongly as it did. I wrote CN Akumas - a 260K-word fanfic on this show, for crying out loud, I was undoubtedly hooked.
And, don’t get me wrong, I had fun with the show, both creating and engaging with fan content about it.
But now there’s nothing keeping me around anymore. Very soon after I concluded my long-running fanfic, season 5’s finale dropped and my last bit of hope for its future was completely destroyed, so I finally lost all interest in the series.
At most now I very occasionally engage with some fan content here and there, but even that doesn’t hit like it used to.
I only wish for those who’re sticking around to not regret their decision and that they get to enjoy what the future seasons offer, even if I personally won’t be part of it anymore.
@@10Bendog Same. The season just broke me. It was like "That's how it ends?? That how you chose to conclude it? WITHOUT ADRIEN!?!" I also didn't see the special cause when I started it it made me angry so I skipped it and officially quit. I found out via a youtuber who summarized the special. It's so sad though cause I really wanted it to go soo much further. There's sooo much potential in it but I feel they'll never do anything exciting like that. It's just disappointing. Sadly this is not my first rodeo of sticking with a cartoon that keeps making really bad decisions. As I was once a Voltron Defender fan since 1st or 2nd season until the very end. Yet I detest more how miraculous ladybug has been handled as a series than Voltron and trust me Voltron had an outrageously awful ending
I'm going to read your fanfic on AO3 but it will take me some (a long) time
I can forgive the first Monarch outfit being ugly AF because it's literally an amalgamation of all the miraculous' so it made sense, the second one only had to butterfly miraculous as a costume factor.
Ikr! Why did they even give him a new design? They should've gone back to his OG hawkmoth design cuz it was the easiest on the eye compared to all his other costumes.
Kinda makes sense, he was really onlly wearing the butterfly, the others were trapped in their chambers and linked to the rings
Chloe deserves so much better. I love the concept of making Chloe just well... Chloe and introduce Zoe later on (like the show did anyways). But make it where Zoe was already nice and well liked. Chloe feels the need to be more aggressive because her sister who was from her mom going out with another man in the US, is clearly more liked. And her mom, always in the US, clearly spends more time with Zoe than Chloe. You see even the mayor loves Zoe. So Chloe acts out to get attention (even if it's negative). After accidently getting the bee miraculous, she does what she normally does and causes trouble like in canon. Ladybug gets mad at her and she gets lectured. She's mad at first that her hero told her he was wrong, but this helps put in her mind that she really wants to change
Also like... In the movie, Gabriel got more redemption in a few hours than Chloe did in multiple seasons
I really relate to your grieving process. This show helped me survive an ED, and Adrien helped me process my abuse trauma from my dad.
Seeing the way that Adrien was treated by the show- especially in season 5- and watching Gabriel, and abusive asshole, get redeemed while Chloe didn’t…. I strongly dislike this show.
I can see why you would abandon the show after it hurt you, I hope you're okay. It sucks to lose love for the show you once enjoyed. I've experienced it before and it's heartbreaking. Have fun with other cartoons. The effort in the video is insane.
So I'm not someone who watches this show.
I've honestly haven't seen a single episode and only see whatever clip you posted in a youtube video.
But for some reason YEARS ago I watched your videos on the show to figure out what Tumblr and people on Twitter were talking about. And I got hooked off the first video and marathoned all of your Miraculous content.
I remember the past year or two at least once every few months just queueing up all your Miracolous videos and watching them in one night Just because they were so good, so funny, and so informed and smart.
I'm so glad the youtube overlords pushed this video to me as I'm about to go to bed. Cause I will be looping this video.
Aw that's so nice
Kinda same for me - haven't watched a single episode but the video essays are phenomenal 😂
Lila has the potential to be a decent arc villain, but considering the way they handled the last arc villain, and the fact that Lila being the new Hawkmoth was rarely given the plot progression and stepping stones to convince the audience she's something more than Gabriel's sidekick.
AND the fact that there is a whole CLASSROOM of heroes AND international heroes that could easily take down one girl, AND the fact that every single Lila episode has been controversial at best… oh my God, why didn't ZAG just stop while they were ahead?
That final portion of the video just made me realize what I’ve been feeling for the last couple months. I keep rewatching and talking about the show, trying to find a way to still love it. Though I still find it comforting and nostalgic, Miraculous is not the show I try to make it out to be, and it will never be. Thank you for helping me mourn the loss of my love for a show that has been with me through the most important parts of my life.
I completely gave up on the show when I started watching Derision. Chloe's treatment and Marinette's trauma really killed any hype I had for it. It was so bad that I literally stopped watching the episode(I refuse to go back to finish it) and when I read the bible leaks, my hope was pretty much gone. I, too, was in love with Miraculous for a very long time. But honestly, like you, I just can't feel the same way anymore. Amazing video though👍
1:00:27 ; This exact sentence reminded me of Kaguya-sama love is war. If you didn't watch it, please do. I think what you just described is happening all across the story, but is precisely what is happening in the movie/last 4 episodes with Miyuki.
< 1:08:34 ; I don't think this is what's upsetting me.
See, the "funny haha" thing turning into "oh my gosh so sad" plot isn't necessarily bad, and can actually work well. I could take another example of that in the anime/manga Assassination Classroom:
Nagisa is a boy who looks very feminine: petite body, slender, long hair... he is often mistaken for a girl and is often teased throughout the story for that for comedic effect.
But as we advance through the story, we get to know his mother is actually forcing him to look like a girl, because she sees him as her second chance in life and wanted a daughter instead. His femininity is no longer funny to the audience, and actually makes you feel sad and empathetic towards Nagisa. And I think it's done pretty well.
... That is until the students continue to make fun of it during the following episodes while _knowing_ this is traumatic for him, but I digress.
I think this is similar to Marinette, and it wouldn't have bothered me too much, if it weren't for one thing.
I agree that this is also to make the audience feel bad. But it was clearly not planned from the beginning, and I did not get the feeling this was made to make me feel bad for laughing at Marinette - since I never really laughed at her antics anyway, but that's just me and some other people I guess.
What I hate in this, is that it's overall a justification for her stalking behavior on Adrien. To say: "hah, see Marinette haters ? You hated her for her creepy tendencies, but little did you know it was actually a response to trauma ! Do you feel bad now ? Isn't wittle Mawinette so loveable ? Don't you want to give her a hug and feel sorry for hating her now, since your hate is unjustified because poor baby was traumatized ?"
"Hm ? What's that ? Chloe is also traumatized by her mother's neglect and is the reason why she acts badly ? Just like Marinette is traumatized by Chloe's bullying and is the reason why she acts ba- hmph, you foolish creatures. Chloe isn't traumatized, she's irredeemable. But poor baby Marinette is and is the one who needs your sympathy. This isn't the same thing at all, so feel bad for being wrong as we outsmarted you."
This. This hypocrisy is the thing that upsets me the most in this episode, other than the fact it is not consistent with the plot as Chloe was at least 10 times worse here than she was in season 1, and with Kim himself being afraid of spiders and yet giving a box of those to a girl plus laughing at her while the spiders are getting sparsed across the platform merely one step away from him etc...
1:33:53 ; A little dishonest here - the screen doesn't fade to black, we immediately see Alya's shocked reaction, Marinette nodding, and the both hugging. But yes, there weren't any direct follow-up to this scene I guess.
If I remember right, in certain moments of the video, two volumes of Assassination Classroom were visible on Gale's bookshelf. She is in the know. ;)
Great analysis, I agree completely!
Chloe's redemption arc was never intended. She remained true to her character even when she became Queen Bee. Once that superhero persona was discarded, she simply doubled down on her atrocious behaviour. Comparing her behaviour with Marinette's is both dubious and unfair.
Maybe I just need to go to bed, but this actually had me tearing up. A clearly heartfelt goodbye, presented in a gripping way. Well done
The funniest thing about Lila is that all her issues could also be fixed if they didn't have all the fillers and they didn't just make pointless episodes hating one Chloe.
There were SO MANY episodes showing Lila in the background and does... NOTHING.
They could have built her up as a good antagonist to replace Gabriel. Chloe doing small petty shit. And Felix just chaos who isn't taking sides. Ruining everyone's plans if it benefits him.
I don't always agree with you, but damn... That final speech really did put it into words how it feels... I kinda needed to hear it--
Thank you for saying it...
What a beautiful video and end to this journey. If only the show could've given us the same catharsis. I personally jumped this ship after the first few episodes of season 4 as the atrocious character writing, Alya's shoddily executed inclusion and the introduction of Zoe made me lose faith in any kind of good ending for this show. I will now head to AO3 and fill my re-ignited craving for good Miraculous drama. Speaking of books, I absolutely admire your book collection and salute my fellow danmei enjoyer.
29:04 I say that the season 3 finale wasn’t what doomed her character although it played a big part, it’s everything after it that failed the character by removing her depth, flanderizing her, and just using her as an asset for akumatizations or character development.
No one highlights this better than our professional waste of space character that is Zoe Lee.
I really liked "Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain" Hawk Moth but had no love for Gabe. Mothman is a really funny and fun villain and as a character of his own is fine. When it gets revealed he gave a man pigeon powers for the 80th time and made a bread viking in an attempt to save his wife, the dissonance between the fun mustache twirling supervillain and the John Serious Character became waaay too distracting. Him going from cackling as plots to make a kid in a frog suit to make people slightly more reckless to his dead wife storage room and opine about how he'll save her became super jarring. I wish he stayed as a more low stakes but cartoonishly evil supervillain for some selfish goal than "man desperate to save his wife" but not desperate enough to have a plan thats not to give pigeon man powers again and hope it works.
I started following you because of your miraculous videos and in a way, this seems like the right conclusion to the series, and I am glad I have stayed and will continue, the heart and professionalism you put into this video shows me that whatever you work on, will be worth the watch
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR YEARS
I'VE BEEN DREADING MAKING IT FOR JUST AS LONG! (Thanks for the comment, hope you enjoy!)
Honestly, that last bit about grief for losing the love for a show you once had has me quite sad, not only because you explained it perfectly but also because I've felt it before, not only with Miraculous Ladybug (as I stopped watching around mid season 4), but with other shows that too seemed to lose focus the more they went on, or even with other things that aren't just tv shows, and realizing you no longer love something you recall used to bring you tons of joy... is such a horrible feeling.
20:07. For Adrien's part, the show has explained to us that for the most part, he doesn't have many wants as a civilian. He might be tired with a cluttered schedule but he doesn't/cannot refuse to do it. The only two times he has expressed a desire to do something, he did it.
He does as Noir but we have never learned how much influence a Kwame has over their user. So it is entirely possible that could be more Plagg's doing.
As for Marinette, she is the opposite. She accomplishes most of her goals with an almost ridiculous level of ease. And the few she doesn't, confessing to Adrien or defeating the butterfly, are so plot centric they cannot be achieved without ending g the show.
I gave up when S4 started dumping the beta love interests was a bad move...
As for Chloe it has all been said.
Okay I don’t have a lot to say about the contents itself because I feel like I would just echo the grievances you already brought up. But honestly I have to tell you how cinematic, inspired, and entertaining this video was. Though I have a lot of criticism for miraculous I often don’t watch any videos on it because it’s just them yelling and making unfunny jokes most of the time. But this? This kept me entertained the whole way through! And while I can feel your frustrations you communicated those frustrations in a very digestible manner. And omg the ending, the way I was genuinely shocked when it was revealed that you were going through the stages of grief the whole video. And your final statement at the end. It’s disheartening to lose love for a show that has been with you for so long, and I can tell you truly loved this show with how much time and effort you put into this video. Miraculous has been with me since I was in middle school; I’m graduating next year. Watching this has honestly helped me not be so salty about the show; I think I’m ready to move on and leave miraculous behind me as well. Excellent work 👏👏👏
While I haven’t had time to watch the entire video, I have to say that a lot of your points ring very true to me. I stopped watching miraculous halfway through season 3 after a friend of mine said she was deciding to wait until the show was over to watch the rest. I decided to follow suit. Sure I was missing out in the fandom, but binging it all would make it worth it. But the distance made me realize my frustrations more and more.
I could ramble about each subject forever, but the show never felt like it had the attention span to fully flesh out any of the developments it introduced.
-New miraculouses? Instantly go to all of Marinette’s friends. I rarely felt any of them had “earned” it, it just felt like Marinette chose them because she liked them.
-New Romantic partners? Completely brushed over after the two got together with their respective partners and inevitably broke up. I didn’t even love these ships at first but they grew on me to the point where I wouldn’t mind if they were endgame. My best friend made a good point that Adrien and Marinette’s relationship was superficial romance towards the beginning, both unnecessarily idolizing the other. These new relationships could change their dynamics. I realized the show could have something meaningful to say about puppy love and how Marinette and Adrien weren’t actually meant for each other. That would be a mature take on the subject. But nope.
-Friends figuring out the identities. Ehhh, it’s there, but it’s not really as explored as it could have been. I like how the show called out the double standard on secret identities, but that doesn’t go anywhere either.
Something that was the breaking point to me though was the complete shafting of Cat Noir. Adrien was such an interesting character and I’d argue in season 1, the two of them were both the stars of the show. I cannot say that for later seasons. The narrative treats Ladybug as if she is so much more important than Cat Noir over time and that really got on my nerves.
The show wants to have its cake and eat it too, pretending it is building to something bigger and maturing with its audience while never having the balls to follow through. As a result it’s only becoming tired and more juvenile with each season (so I’m told).
I have friends and family that have encouraged me to try the show again. Maybe I will after the fact, I don’t know. But I am a lot less consistently frustrated now that I have removed it from my life. I still have a fondness for the show, it really helped me through high school, but I just outgrew it. I would like to watch the movie, but I can’t say I love the show like I did freshman and sophomore year. It’s a shame the show had so much potential but never decided to act on it because it wanted to be contradictory based on fan responses. Maybe something like miraculous that lives up to the potential will come out someday, but as of now, I appreciate the time I spent with it. Thanks miraculous, it was nice while it lasted.
“The show wants to have its cake and eat it too, pretending it is building to something bigger and maturing with its audience while never having the balls to follow through” This is why I can never accept that it’s “just a kid’s show” when it’s clearly trying to be more than that.
This video deconstructs my feelings towards the show in such a thorough way. I don't think I will ever love show more than I did Miraculous during Season 1. But that feeling has long been burnt out of me, and only borderline irrational resentment remained.
Thank you for this video. It was very cathartic.
Also Grief was awesome, I loved her ❤
“Hell is forever whether you like it or not!”
True words have never described MLB nowadays until now.
This was one of the most creative movie reviews I have seen!
42:26. This might beme giving the show too much credit but i interpret Lila's goal as "causing chaos and pain is the goal in and of itself. All the better is if can get power and influence from that chaos".
She doesn't have a defined objective. Just a state of being for the world around her. The reason she seems inconsistent is becomes "some people just want to watch the world burn" to quote the dark night.
Oh gosh...Grief is the word I was looking for when I was trying to figure out what I was feeling from learning how the show went...It was grief...
I'm thirty-five year old woman. I started watching the show when I was in my mid twenties. I forgot about the show but occasionally came back to learn how the story progressed. And I just didn't know how to handle what I was feeling from learning S5 finale. This children's show that once brought so much joy to me (even as a grown-up woman)...it turned into something like... like... I'm still in love with the potential. Only the potential though.
I gave it a chance and watched the London Special but... the show was already dead inside me. It is damaged to the core. I feel so empty. Not a good empty feeling but...
Thank you for this video. I've watched a lot of rant videos about Miraculous Ladybug show, and your video here is one of the best...
I'm watching your video over and over and over👍
I am crunching through this slowly at work, and am happy for you that you managed to put out what will moat likely be, another banger
FallenGale has RETURNED!!!
Why is this rant video so well edited?! Why did you put so much effort into this???????
I cannot agree with you more about Felix.
Felis was suppose to be the wildcard. The one who's goals don't alight with either the hero or villain and does what is advantageous to himself at all times. His mere presence should make everyone wary of him and his plans.
Now he's just a sad puppy we should feel sorry for.
When it got to the part about grieving for the love you once had for the show, I really felt that. Not only because I once loved the show myself, but I also somewhat recently went through accepting the same feelings for something else I once loved. I’ve always been strongly of the opinion that being a children’s show is no excuse for poor writing; children deserve good stories too. Thank you for this video, Gale 💖
Oh I get it, the beginning is her grieving
She needs to talk about it to "move on"
Clever
Damn this video was really clever. I dont give two shts for Miraculous, but this script was gold!
I hopped off the boat of Miraculous a long time ago. But during the run of the 5th season, I felt like i owned my childhood self to actually try and catch up and see what was going on. At the very least i wanted to see my otp get together. That was a mistake, a show i didnt hate or love all that much. Some how left me baffled. The shows mistreatment of adrian, the weird mask off moments with the creator. Who got really weird about people wanting more from Adrian character. Which by the end i do hope the people disappointed with the show does make their own and he becomes a weird footnote.
The leaks left me standing at the door of a fire I had no idea how it had started. After all that i made it to the very end and i never felt more happy that i didn't go into the burning house. I watched from afar as they tried to redeem hawkmoth. I watched the bar sink into hell and I thought "at the very least adrian cant be snub out of his literal character plot' i was wrong. An even if they are doing a 6th season. Im good, i'll do what i've been doing. Viewing from afar because being invested is simply not worth it.
Plus just because its a kid show doesnt mean kids need to eat slop. We gotta stop leaning on that. Sometimes a show is simply shit and made with the barest bones and connections to anything. Sometimes its just not good no matter how much we want it to be. But they thats what fanfic is for!
What I find interesting is how there are clearly people on the show staff who tried to push back against Thomas's bad ideas. He was the director for all of season 1, but season 2 introduced a revolving door or different directors who work alongside Thomas. I have to assume they had a clearer vision for the show's direction, hence Chloé's redemption arc, but Thomas ultimately won, and that's why things took a nosedive.
I bring this up because I find it hard to believe that everyone on staff is a complete moron. I have to assume there are competent people working on the show who get bogged down by Thomas and executives who don't care.
I had just finished catching up on the show and then saw your video. I've missed your Miraculous rants
My number one reaction to miraculous content these days is just: “I wish I knew how to quit you…”
Interesting to see other people's takes, some I agree with and some I don't. The only thing I take exception to is the claim at the end that the morals are fine, for one reason:
Chloé- ni she doesn't need to ne a hero or a good person. She doesn't need to 'win' but what we had in this *childrens show* was a child shown on screen going through actual child abuse and *then* the moral that was preached is that the *abused child* was the one at fault. The *abused child* was the one who *abused* her parent, and the *abused child* deserved to be sent off with the person so abusive that André divorced her.
Just... Let that sink in.
This is what was laid in front of children. If you are abused and act out at all l, you deserve it.
Gross.
That is enough in and of itself to be why my daughter won't ever watch past S3. She does *not* need that in her life. (I'm a parent who originally got into the show when my wife was pre-watching it for our kid)
I don't mind talking morals through with my kid, but some things are better left untangled.
"The worst plotline at every possible turn" is the best possible description of this show I've ever heard
30 mins in and I love this! Great points made, fun editing, engaging scenes/acting, and just really nice commentary. I appreciate all the effort gone into this!
I'd recommend the Miraculous office AU. It expands on things from the PV replacing Adrien with Felix and building on critiques in canon. It's 14 parts on youtube, has catharsis, lets the characters figure things out, has confrontations, a tight cast, barely any akumatizations, hawkmoth is barely shown and builds mystery.
I understand leaving the show proper. All of your points with s5 itself as well as the ending, the hippocracy with Chloe and how Lila is handled. While the au is in itself also unfinished, it is due to being made entirely by one person aside from the voice cast and watching the au has helped me heal from my issues with the main show in ways I didn't think was possible. I'd recommend it since it has a lot of the things I know a lot of people want from the show proper, hell I did too I still do going into and waiting for s6. There's no swapping miraculous, no reveal yet but there is a confession that isn't Marinette staring at her earrings and the characters do talk about their feelings to both each other and the audience in the mockumentary style since it's following the U.S. office. It only takes about 3 hours to get through not very long and has an anime esque style.
It's a similar feeling to the Miraculous Awakening movie except as a singer I wasn't a big fan of the music being sung by someone who wasn't Cristina Vee as well as the awkward pacing and I hated the nickname 'watermelon' and severely missed 'm'lady' strange nitpicks I know. But the office au has more time to breathe than the movie and lets the characters have meaningful talks instead of just montages. And while they do have chemistry in both the movie and watered down chemistry in the show proper I still prefer the office au and I think you'd enjoy it Gale. Even if you give up on the show itself I'm begging you to at least leave with the office au by emzurl.
Yes it's technically fanfiction which you mentioned needing to fill the pit after the series itself kept letting you down. but yeah that's all I wanted to say. No felix isn't a villain in it like you stated you enjoyed but it developed the romance in a more satisfying way in my opinion. I'm sorry for your loss I get you though. I relate to struggling with a lot of the issues and I want to hang on for the identity reveal.
Idk why this was the first thing that I noticed but at 0:17 we have FALLENGALE and at 0:45 FallenGale... Now I will allow myself to quote Cell from Dragon Ball Z Abridged: "It's fine, it's fine. It doesn't bother me, it doesn't bother me, it bothers me, it bothers me a lot."
Thank you for your comment. You see the confusion is between FALLENGALE the UA-camr and FallenGale the writer/actor. I'm a bit of a diva and needed to remind her I'm in charge here. (Actually those titles were edited on separate days and I didn't even notice.) Thanks for watching!
So ... this disastrous Show is how i came to this UA-cam Channel, and now, this UA-cam Channel is parting ways, or rather ranting ways with this disastrous show for good.
... I just kinda love how this has just gone and with this Video just ended up full circle, so yeah.
I can't watch this right now because it's 1:40 AM in Germany and i have to work in 6 hours, but i will watch this right after i'm done and will enjoy listening to a ranting that will finally conclude this mess at last. ❤
Oh Miraculous ... feels like this end was destined for you from the beginning ...
Ouch.
The show isn't disastrous, just because you didn't like the narrative. I've never heard a single concrete critique for the show whatsoever. It's only ever personal complaints and whines about how the characters are treated or how the plot has progressed.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 yes it is
@@artisticpurplepen2213 And why is that?
@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 bro, get over yourself and stop defending this show. it is not worth it. as someone who's rewatching it from the beginning as a now young adult, this show fell off extremely hard after season 2 ended. And you're quite literally watching a video essay of someone critiquing the show and you're still acting clueless.
@@baoziday5178 Perhaps you should get over yourself and stop attacking a show which you don't even like. This show didn't fall off after season 2; the plot progression only became better because the show transitioned from an episodic style to a serialised one. And this video essay doesn't change that. Once again, it's merely another barrage of personal complaints. Authorial intentions are more important than the reader's whims, and the writers have done a superb job. This show succeeded because of its appealing characters, lore, and overarching story. It has millions of adoring fans around the world awaiting the next season. Is this the definition of a disastrous show? Surely, there are much worse shows out there that are actually worth mocking.
I said it once and I'll keep saying it for years after the show ends; miraculous ladybug is to children's cartoons what yandere simulator is to videogames
Why is that?
Watching Miraculous season 5 and seeing Felix get a redemption arc pissed me off tbh.
Even one of the things Felix has done in miraculous is far worst than anything Chloe had done in the season 3 finale. Felix should deserve a redemption arc, but not without repercussions. Sure, everything he did was to free him and Adrien for Gabriel, but he endangered Paris substantially in the process:
-He impersonated Adrien and got his friends akumatized
-He impersonated Adrien AGAIN to get a miraculous, used said miraculous to get the miracle box to give to Shadowmoth
-He impersonated Adrien FOR THE THIRD TIME, god rid of him and broke into a party where he caused a blood moon and killed everyone of Paris (he didn’t have to kill anyone either than Gabriel but he did anyway)
-He then kidnapped Kagami against her will.
*None of this he truly, apologized for except for kidnapping Kagami*
YET, EVERYONE FORGAVE HIM???
Chloe has done some terrible things, don’t get me wrong but atp the show hates her if her measly team ups with Hawkmoth earns her a place on the black list. The show preaches forgiveness and love, which they’ll graciously show to Felix who is basically an on the run felon, but Chloe had a lash out and teamed up with Hawkmoth cuz Ladybug lied to her about not giving out miraculouses to people Hawkmoth knows the identity of and she’s suddenly far removed from ever achieving goodness. Now that’s not to say a character can’t revert back to old ways after a change, cuz realistically everyone can, but in Chloe’s case it felt a bit far removed from everything she learned in season 2-3. Even in Miracle Queen (S3) when she got upset about not getting her miraculous she calmed down and said she understood. So, at least for the season 3 finale she could do what she does but somewhere in season 4 after Zoe comes maybe Zoe becomes her anchor for change?
This really is a rant about miraculous’s inconsistency in terms writing of what deems a character irredeemable. We haven’t reached season 6 yet, but as far as the end card for season 5 goes….seems like anything Felix has done was forgivable. They might redeem Chloe but she’s probably never getting a supporting role again as a hero😅
you don't even need to analyse this all that far. the simple fact that he molested ladybug and was redeemed regardless makes it all so wonky. as if they were trying to make him unlikeable in the beginning only to backtrack now, as gale said. even disregarding the bad writing, it's very hard to ignore this detail honestly. as if we could ever forgive assault.
I love the amount of work that went into the intro xD!! Did not especially expect that coming from a ML rant video, they really went hard and it got me hooked immediately haha~
“There is no kind of hate like spoiled love from a fan”
-idk man the voices
The writer's beef with Chloe needs to be studied
This video is so well made. so refreshing to see. i wish you a great day, mine has gotten better after watching this. thank you. (not even a miraculous fan lol)
As someone who has never seen an episode of the show and therefore has no cards in the game regarding its "rise and fall", this has been a very interesting video. Kudos for the filmed scenes, the format was really captivating.
Another reason Derision exists is to make fans stop bitching about Marinette's behavior being creepy. People constantly talk about how creepy her stalker behavior has been, so Astruc wanted to protect his fictional daughter (he's called her that himself) by saying "WELL HAH SHE DOES IT BECAUSE TRAUMA! NOW YOU CAN'T PISS ON HER! YOU DON'T WANNA BE MAD AT SOMEONE FOR BEING TRAUMATIZED DO YOU? THAT'D MAKE YOU AN AWFUL PERSON! SO QUIT BEING MAD!". Marinette in episode states "I'm never gonna confess my feelings to a boy before I know EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM!" as well as creepy things she did in previous episodes (knowing his schedule and so on). It's so obvious this episode only exists to make fans stop complaining. It wasn't planned which you can tell because she wasn't creepy with Luca, it was extremely tell don't show since that line was shoehorned in, it came way too late into the show, and it justifies her behavior.
Who are Rey's parents? Also derision was made only to make Marinette look less like a stalker. It didn't work and now it makes me think that astruck is a gacha kid.
With the name's part they could have easily solved it by saying these are the names for marketing and toys and not anything in-universe. The only character I'm fine with is Gabriel, Hawkmoth, Shadowmoth and Monarch are like a new era for him personally I feel, especially when he was Monarch
I'm watcing this video like twenty times by now hahaha
Thank you once again for the rant!! Not just yelling rant, this is so genuine deep-thought rant, which why I keep watching it!
I 100% never bothered with this series but man i feel bad for you fans. being invested in a series that not only was a train wreck but also a massacre of the passangers, its so sad. The ONLY way to salvage the series is to reboot and not have that uh guy (you know him) to be part it. This is basically French rwby in terms of wasted potential and series rot. Okay maybe that last part is overblown
But it wasn’t a train wreck whatsoever. People love to exaggerate and blow things out of proportion.
I keep coming back to this video and keep having new thoughts about it, like what constitutes an appropriate amount of drama for a kids show, which in my opinion includes the "Avatar the Last Airbender" Nickelodeon t.v. show specifically as the possible peak that Miraculous could have reached as far as character interactions and possible battle match-ups. It could have been the spiritual successor to Last Airbender, that's what I, an older, former fan of Miraculous saw when I was a fan, and since I share 95% of your thoughts on the show as you explained in your video, I don't think that I need to explain why I left the Miraculous fandom by and large.
Miraculous Ladybug is the latest in a trend of series setting up to deliever interesting nuanced character/plots to only just forget about them. Kind of like MHA. Lost was the first example in the "internet age" of disappointing to deliver on all the setups intrigue. Fans speculated and debated of all the meanings but the show just never delivered.
This isn't even the fans grasping at straws; assuming every slightly moved prop is some devious genius deliberate setup, like the fans of Sherlock thought. This is a series deliberately drawing attention to plot threads and ideas but just not doing anything substantial with them.
We all sat with baited breath for Chloe to get a redemption, for Chat Noir to finally call out Ladybug for sidelining him so much and for all the other longterm plots to be executed and they just fizzled out of existence. "Catharsis" was the correct word to use. I'd almost rather Miraculous just be a one-dimensional kids show with no overarching plot threads than to just half do it and leave us with nothing but disappointment.
What were you disappointed about? I think that the writers did a decent job of wrapping up lose ends.
This better hit over 500k views (make it a million)
I always think about how this show must have failed so spectacularly because the writers were aiming and expecting for a children’s audience, got surprised when older children, teens, and adults got invested, and then didn’t know how to pivot correctly.
There are shows aimed for child audiences that aren’t written in a formulaic vacuum. They’re capable of the nuance of writing a show that’s not difficult for children to understand but also still intriguing for older audiences. And that kind of writing can make a show timeless (ie Avatar the Last Airbender, The Owl House, Steven Universe, etc etc). Those shows are targeted at younger audiences but have deeper themes woven in that can keep older audiences engaged and the children who grew up watching the show constantly coming back to appreciate the show as they age.
MLB feels like when they made the pivot they couldn’t merge the idea of nuance. So as a result we get overly convoluted episodes for the “older audience” and flatter and more cookie cutter writing for “the child audience”. It leads to episodes with mixed writing too that only serve to further confuse the narrative and plot points brought up. A perfect example is Chloe: “she’s mean to Marinette and that’s the box she’s in, she’s our token mean girl for all the kids to hate.”, “Older audiences love redemption arcs… let’s pull Chloe out of the box and play with her some and throw in some real plot!” “Uh oh, they’re starting to think Chloe will be redeemed. But we ALREADY let all the kiddies know she’s the token mean girl… let’s dial way back to square one. I’m sure it’ll be fine…”
The Owl House is aimed at teenagers, not kids.
I was tempted to rant on seasons 4 and 5 as a whole, but decided only to rant on the finale because WOLF. It ruined the show as a whole for me. But thank you, for making miraculous videos me and my sister enjoy! I can't tell if there's gonna be more after this, or cute pokemon videos, but time will tell!
i paid attention to the video essay like i usually do, but i cant help but also pay attention about the real time filming because i love it so much (the composition and all that other stuff) ❤
oh god, I am crying rn at the end of the realization great movie/video 😭
There something that's been really bugging me. In a show that tries to embody and markets itself as a girl power show, it feels a little bit sexist that almost none of the evil female characters get redemption arcs but all the evil male characters do. Gabriel and Felix are pretty awful people and they get rushed redemption arcs (even Chloe's dad gets one). Meanwhile, Chloe has build-up to a redemption arc but that goes absolutely nowhere and Lila is always shown to be the worst. It's not that every character needs to have a redemption arc, I firmly believe that they should be used sparingly, but it just bugs me that it's almost always the male characters that get one.
The movie is better than the show:
You can tell Jeremy and co did the best they could,sure it isn't flawless but it isn't have as much issues the show did,it did the opposite of it ,like Gab and Adriaan having a actual arc. Also I agree that Chloe deserved better character wise.
The movie is just as bad:
Jeremy Zag has no originality in his writing or in his characters besides making Adrien superficial like he has never been and the "best" of Jeremy is mid
AI could never replicate that feeling of connecting so deeply to a creator's life experience
Cartoons being made for kids isn't an excuse to make your show stupid. Kids are learning and if they learn the wrong things it can backfire
20:00 lmao I loved that episode but it's true. They didn't have the time to fully flash out the dream and they never really touch on it again and it's sad. It was finally a moment in the series where it wasn't the common ships of the triangle but instead they touched on Ladybug x Chatnoir finally after 4 seasons and it just ends there in that episode 😭
Like I'm happy at least they got together as civilians but why give us that episode if it's not going to affect anything else in the future...
MatPat, FallenGale, SarcasticChorus.... you'll all be missed :(
What do you mean?!
@@mr.efilmans2ndchannel594 SarcasticChorus no longer makes Helluva Boss videos anymore...
From what I've gathered, this show is basically JoJo Part 4: Diamond is Unbreakable if it was French and terrible
Two of the main characters have a create/destroy dynamic, the show entirely takes place in one city, random citizens of that city are turned into the villain of the week by an overarching antagonist, there's a girl who takes her crush on a boy to ridiculous lengths and it's never thoroughly addressed, there's a self insert for the author, there's an annoying character who goes between good and bad guy (although they can't blow her up because it's a kids show), the main villain's whole schtick is that no one knows that he's the bad guy, and also the guy has a "son" (imposter in JoJo's case) who gets wrapped up in the drama.
It's like they read the manga and decided to make a cheap imitation with none of the creativity that also smashed several characters together.
1:09:55 I'm sorry, but showing anything Zoe Oneesama made while talking about chloé's potential depth/redemption as a character seems like a practical joke.
...
You know this makes me glad I stopped watching after season 2
For the best
I'm still mad about why they did with Chloe I saw a Ladybug's review video weeks ago that said that as seasons went by, the presence of the best writers was been vanished as the worst one were more frequent in episodes so sad and so true how they treated so many characters and how they want us to like marinette at absolutely all her moments that's not possible I'm sorry