Thanks for the video. I too, really hate when European forced labor is conflated with chattel slavery, usually advanced by far right trolls. However, the actual history is a little more complicated then you've suggested here, which I get, in a seven minute video it's hard to really tackle a complicated topic like this. For one thing, just making 17th century unfree labor into two categories, indentured servitude and slavery is oversimplifying the topic. I would suggest that there were really four categories: slavery, convict labor, indentured servitude, and prisoners of war. The Irish showed up in the Caribbean during and after the Cromwellian conquest, specifically in Barbadoes, and were mostly in the Prisoner of War and convict labor categories, and though this event was for a very narrow period of time, (from about 1650 to the 1660s) it is wrong to lump this group in with indentured servants. They were there for life, and it included women and children. R.F Foster concludes that there were around 15,000 transported, but the true amount is probably greater, (Foster is notoriously careful, some would say too careful about statistics) The realities of plantation life tended to blur the lines between African chattel slaves and white convicts, and since they tended to intermarry, the argument that the children of convicts were not unfree didn't really apply, since the children would be collapsed into the chattel slavery pool. Even children born to two white convicts were considered unfree at least until the age of 21, (the same applied to indentured servants), although these customs tended to vary between different colonies. Contemporary sources actually claimed that the Irish were treated worse than chattel slaves, being cheaper, (A great source for this "A Global History of Convicts and Penal Colonies" by Clare Anderson, Bloomsbury Academics, 2018":. As Richard Ligon, a visitor to Barbados, noted, ‘I have seen such cruelty there done to servants, as I did not think one Christian could have done to another.’[57] Tellingly he thought they were treated worse than slaves who are ‘kept and preserv’d with greater care’. Servants had, in his words, ‘the worser lives, for they are put to very hard labor, ill lodging and their dyet [is] very sleight’.[58].).
You are right it is very difficult to unpack complex historical subjects in 7mins and at the time this video was made I was really trying to keep things short and simple. That would probably be one of my own criticism of this video.
Every single white person I have ever know has brought up that "Irish were slaves too" when the subject of African slavery comes up. It's fucking tiring.
Thank you for making this man, I just had to deal with two other white people telling me that Irish people were "the first and worst treated slaves" for like hours straight with complete confidence and I felt absolutely insane
Very useful information. it's always good to have the facts straight. I think for most people in the US, it is about discovering a part of history that has up to recently been omitted from most if not all textbooks. there will always be people who will use information to further their ideas. I would like to learn more about Cromwell and whether or not he did send Irish to the Americas.
Next you should debunk the "black hebrew Israelites" myth about black pygmies in Ireland killed by St. Patrick 🤣 yes, this is an actual meme that gets circulated around every St. Patrick's Day.
Can we get a fallow up to this? cause a lot has come out since this video was made, and that 2008 article seems more legit then you thought. An where is that article, that may have actually been my grandfather, I remember around that time he was telling me about Irish slavery and discrimination of the Irish in early America, that kinda stuff. Showed me pics of stuff like no dogs no blacks and no Irish signs, there is a lot of Thomas Sowell videos going around about slavery more currently. I wonder if you have changed your views on any of this information your putting out.
It's crazy 7 years this been going on. I just been seeing it alot recently in response too the climate overall I guess. Wish I could share this on here. Get it back in the algorithm. Not enough people have seen it unfortunately probably purposely 😢
I like this video, very informative. Let's be real though, its still slavery. However it was certainly worse for black people. We should never forget history as uncomfortable as it is.
"Life for these people was not necessarily easy" WTF life was hard on free people back then. You can make the case that indentured servitude is different from chattel slavery because they are. Indentured servitude is slavery light or part time slavery. You couldn't get married OR ENGAGE IN COMMERCE? "Not necessarily easy". I know you feel a great urge to stick it to the supremist who are using this, and it might at first glance seem like justice. But downplaying indentured servitude more than it should be just feeds into the supremist claim that academics inject politics over facts. That is a problem because then you are making the supremist right about something, bad move. Indentured servitude and chattel slavery are separated by degrees of horror not degrees of "ease". You're a historian what legal recourse if any did an indentured servant have if they felt they were being abused? P.s how does it work for servants and their contracts in Saudi Arabia? "Many domestic servants in Saudi Arabia are treated adequately,[13] but there have been numerous cases of abuse. Foreign workers have been raped, exploited, under- or unpaid, physically abused,[26] overworked and locked in their places of employment. The international organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) describes these conditions as "near-slavery" and attributes them to "deeply rooted gender, religious, and racial discrimination".[13] In many cases the workers are unwilling to report their employers for fear of losing their jobs or further abuse.[13] Other forms of general discrimination," The Human Rights Watch thinks this is "near slavery" and it seems a lot like indentured servants. I guess they don't necessarily have it easy. You could have made the same point about the difference without downplaying indentured servants. The message is less effective, and it makes people wonder what else you aren't saying.
As a underemployed historian-thank you for this. This encapsulates the problem, the issues, the evidence, and how this grossly misleading idea is being used in the United States today. I will be using this with my students when this issue pops up in my courses. I just wish for two things: -That the time period it focuses on was more 19th century. This issue (and meme) seems to come up a lot when we deal with pre-Civil War Irish immigration in the national context of the lead up to the Civil War. -That there was a transcript or script. Accessibility is way important as we continue to pull down barriers to learning. Rock on.
This is a very useful and informative video. I like that you actually use facts for your history. Even sadder that the historical debates over who was or was not a slave is the fact that over 30,000,000 people are enduring some form of slavery - today. Having travelled to the worst known slave state today, Mauritania, as well as th Chad, where it is still rampant, but less so than in some other countries, I find it particularly sad that many of the owners of black slaves are other black Africans themselves. It is not a coincidence that slavery is most common in Islamic states, since prominent Muslim theologians continue to put forward a view of the Qu'ran that supports chattel slavery. There are many organizations who have sites online who are committed to fighting slavery of all types. I encourage people to give at least as much thought to people who are currently held in slavery as they do to those who were slaves over 150 years ago.
+motorcop505 Thank you for your comment! It is important to remember that these issues like slavery are unfortunately not a thing of thing of the past.
+motorcop505 "I find it particularly sad that many of the owners of black slaves are other black Africans themselves" um no, most of the slave owners were mixed with black (non-black) or non-black muslims. Yes, there were few black "slave" owners. However the slaving states of the time, which can be named, such as the Fulani groups (specifics) were more like prisoners of war. They could be integrated back into society, kept their names and so on. So let's keep it factual. Chattel slavery did not exists among black African communities widely. And those black Africans that took part, the few where muslims. Then again black muslims were also taken as chattel slaves,in the Atlantic and Trans-Saharan slave trades. Second, you are right slavery still exists today I find it heart breaking that black Africans are trafficked for sex by Europeans even in countries such as the Uk and Italy. Working with inhumane and corrupt individuals in the nation's these women (mainly) come from. The sex tourism that occurs where children and orphans are being rapped from Kenya to the Congo. It is said that the UN has covered up the secual exploitaion of European peace soldiers in both Haiti and Congo, who are also complicit in the human trafficking of the people. It is downright saddening. however, there are many documentaries on those evil Congolise and other African soldiers exploiting the people. Sad indeed. Of course human trafficking in eastern Europe too, and other places, Sad indeed.
Thank you for clearing this up because I was wondering why Irish people don't talk more about "being enslaved". Everyone knows about indentured servants.
Thank you for clarifying this issue as I wondered why I had never heard about my ancestors being enslaved until videos starting popping up on UA-cam. This is a classic example of needing to do your research as I remember feeling outraged by this topic and was especially angry that it had been hushed up. I knew about indentured servants although not too much. You are a smart and articulate young man and you will go far, good luck.
Yes, the only proven enslavement of the irish was by the vikings, and it was nowhere near the level abuse that the African American slaves suffered in the Americas.
+Carl Fink Hi! I can't say I noticed any myself after checking on a couple of different devices. Thanks for spotting the typo. I'll insert an annotation with the correct spelling
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Never heard of irish slaves, but I was lead to believe irish immigrants played a role in ending slavery in america.
The majority of indentured servants in colonial America were English.
Thanks for the video. I too, really hate when European forced labor is conflated with chattel slavery, usually advanced by far right trolls. However, the actual history is a little more complicated then you've suggested here, which I get, in a seven minute video it's hard to really tackle a complicated topic like this. For one thing, just making 17th century unfree labor into two categories, indentured servitude and slavery is oversimplifying the topic. I would suggest that there were really four categories: slavery, convict labor, indentured servitude, and prisoners of war. The Irish showed up in the Caribbean during and after the Cromwellian conquest, specifically in Barbadoes, and were mostly in the Prisoner of War and convict labor categories, and though this event was for a very narrow period of time, (from about 1650 to the 1660s) it is wrong to lump this group in with indentured servants. They were there for life, and it included women and children. R.F Foster concludes that there were around 15,000 transported, but the true amount is probably greater, (Foster is notoriously careful, some would say too careful about statistics) The realities of plantation life tended to blur the lines between African chattel slaves and white convicts, and since they tended to intermarry, the argument that the children of convicts were not unfree didn't really apply, since the children would be collapsed into the chattel slavery pool. Even children born to two white convicts were considered unfree at least until the age of 21, (the same applied to indentured servants), although these customs tended to vary between different colonies. Contemporary sources actually claimed that the Irish were treated worse than chattel slaves, being cheaper, (A great source for this "A Global History of Convicts and Penal Colonies" by Clare Anderson, Bloomsbury Academics, 2018":. As Richard Ligon, a visitor to Barbados, noted, ‘I have seen such cruelty there done to servants, as I did not think one Christian could have done to another.’[57] Tellingly he thought they were treated worse than slaves who are ‘kept and preserv’d with greater care’. Servants had, in his words, ‘the worser lives, for they are put to very hard labor, ill lodging and their dyet [is] very sleight’.[58].).
You are right it is very difficult to unpack complex historical subjects in 7mins and at the time this video was made I was really trying to keep things short and simple. That would probably be one of my own criticism of this video.
@@TheUnemployedHistorian Thanks for the reply. Keep up the good work!
Every single white person I have ever know has brought up that "Irish were slaves too" when the subject of African slavery comes up. It's fucking tiring.
Thank you for this information. The memes were so argumentative and it seemed to get worse during Black History month.
Thank you for making this man, I just had to deal with two other white people telling me that Irish people were "the first and worst treated slaves" for like hours straight with complete confidence and I felt absolutely insane
People be so wrong and so confident at the same time
Great rundown of factual history - even more relevant in that past year than ever before!
These needs to be in every suggested videos. Put a rest to this rumor.
Very useful information. it's always good to have the facts straight. I think for most people in the US, it is about discovering a part of history that has up to recently been omitted from most if not all textbooks. there will always be people who will use information to further their ideas. I would like to learn more about Cromwell and whether or not he did send Irish to the Americas.
Slavery was omitted from textbooks? which ones? which states?
Next you should debunk the "black hebrew Israelites" myth about black pygmies in Ireland killed by St. Patrick 🤣 yes, this is an actual meme that gets circulated around every St. Patrick's Day.
No way. These people should just write sci-fi novels.
Oh Jaysus I got into it with someone
No way they say that send a link bro
Can we get a fallow up to this? cause a lot has come out since this video was made, and that 2008 article seems more legit then you thought. An where is that article, that may have actually been my grandfather, I remember around that time he was telling me about Irish slavery and discrimination of the Irish in early America, that kinda stuff. Showed me pics of stuff like no dogs no blacks and no Irish signs, there is a lot of Thomas Sowell videos going around about slavery more currently. I wonder if you have changed your views on any of this information your putting out.
Update: The Irish Slave Myth is still pseudohistory.
It's crazy 7 years this been going on. I just been seeing it alot recently in response too the climate overall I guess. Wish I could share this on here. Get it back in the algorithm. Not enough people have seen it unfortunately probably purposely 😢
I like this video, very informative. Let's be real though, its still slavery. However it was certainly worse for black people. We should never forget history as uncomfortable as it is.
No it wasn't.
Were you there?
Nah. Slavery is wrong stop trying to compare them.
Great stuff, thanks for this.
This video was wonderfully informative!
It's a shame it got ratioed...
Truth usually does...
Class video, kinda concerned about the amount of dislikes. Would like to see how many people who disliked watched the full video.
My guess would be not a lot!
Thank you for keeping it real👌
Yeah, I totally can't tell your political leanings lol 1:09
yes, i am pro cats judging their owners for making them wear unicorn horns - was it so obvious?
Political leanings being influenced by historical knowledge seems like a crazy thing to criticize, but go off
Are you still unemployed.
good question
yes, total nonsense. thank you
"Life for these people was not necessarily easy" WTF life was hard on free people back then. You can make the case that indentured servitude is different from chattel slavery because they are. Indentured servitude is slavery light or part time slavery. You couldn't get married OR ENGAGE IN COMMERCE? "Not necessarily easy".
I know you feel a great urge to stick it to the supremist who are using this, and it might at first glance seem like justice. But downplaying indentured servitude more than it should be just feeds into the supremist claim that academics inject politics over facts. That is a problem because then you are making the supremist right about something, bad move. Indentured servitude and chattel slavery are separated by degrees of horror not degrees of "ease".
You're a historian what legal recourse if any did an indentured servant have if they felt they were being abused?
P.s how does it work for servants and their contracts in Saudi Arabia?
"Many domestic servants in Saudi Arabia are treated adequately,[13] but there have been numerous cases of abuse. Foreign workers have been raped, exploited, under- or unpaid, physically abused,[26] overworked and locked in their places of employment. The international organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) describes these conditions as "near-slavery" and attributes them to "deeply rooted gender, religious, and racial discrimination".[13] In many cases the workers are unwilling to report their employers for fear of losing their jobs or further abuse.[13] Other forms of general discrimination,"
The Human Rights Watch thinks this is "near slavery" and it seems a lot like indentured servants.
I guess they don't necessarily have it easy.
You could have made the same point about the difference without downplaying indentured servants. The message is less effective, and it makes people wonder what else you aren't saying.
A valid point that me from 7 years ago should have caught.
As a underemployed historian-thank you for this. This encapsulates the problem, the issues, the evidence, and how this grossly misleading idea is being used in the United States today. I will be using this with my students when this issue pops up in my courses.
I just wish for two things:
-That the time period it focuses on was more 19th century. This issue (and meme) seems to come up a lot when we deal with pre-Civil War Irish immigration in the national context of the lead up to the Civil War.
-That there was a transcript or script. Accessibility is way important as we continue to pull down barriers to learning.
Rock on.
This is a very useful and informative video. I like that you actually use facts for your history. Even sadder that the historical debates over who was or was not a slave is the fact that over 30,000,000 people are enduring some form of slavery - today. Having travelled to the worst known slave state today, Mauritania, as well as th Chad, where it is still rampant, but less so than in some other countries, I find it particularly sad that many of the owners of black slaves are other black Africans themselves. It is not a coincidence that slavery is most common in Islamic states, since prominent Muslim theologians continue to put forward a view of the Qu'ran that supports chattel slavery. There are many organizations who have sites online who are committed to fighting slavery of all types. I encourage people to give at least as much thought to people who are currently held in slavery as they do to those who were slaves over 150 years ago.
+motorcop505 Thank you for your comment! It is important to remember that these issues like slavery are unfortunately not a thing of thing of the past.
+motorcop505
"I find it particularly sad that many of the owners of black slaves are other black Africans themselves" um no, most of the slave owners were mixed with black (non-black) or non-black muslims. Yes, there were few black "slave" owners. However the slaving states of the time, which can be named, such as the Fulani groups (specifics) were more like prisoners of war. They could be integrated back into society, kept their names and so on. So let's keep it factual. Chattel slavery did not exists among black African communities widely. And those black Africans that took part, the few where muslims. Then again black muslims were also taken as chattel slaves,in the Atlantic and Trans-Saharan slave trades.
Second, you are right slavery still exists today I find it heart breaking that black Africans are trafficked for sex by Europeans even in countries such as the Uk and Italy. Working with inhumane and corrupt individuals in the nation's these women (mainly) come from. The sex tourism that occurs where children and orphans are being rapped from Kenya to the Congo. It is said that the UN has covered up the secual exploitaion of European peace soldiers in both Haiti and Congo, who are also complicit in the human trafficking of the people. It is downright saddening. however, there are many documentaries on those evil Congolise and other African soldiers exploiting the people. Sad indeed.
Of course human trafficking in eastern Europe too, and other places, Sad indeed.
I had no idea about this laughable meme. Thank you for another excellent video.
+aag24 Thank you, Amro!
Thank you for clearing this up because I was wondering why Irish people don't talk more about "being enslaved". Everyone knows about indentured servants.
Thank you for clarifying this issue as I wondered why I had never heard about my ancestors being enslaved until videos starting popping up on UA-cam. This is a classic example of needing to do your research as I remember feeling outraged by this topic and was especially angry that it had been hushed up. I knew about indentured servants although not too much.
You are a smart and articulate young man and you will go far, good luck.
Yes, the only proven enslavement of the irish was by the vikings, and it was nowhere near the level abuse that the African American slaves suffered in the Americas.
pregnancy extended their contracts
I assume a "Limerick-based historian" is someone who imparts all of their historical knowledge by way of dirty limericks.
+On the Stick I won't ruin it for you by telling you the truth.
+The Unemployed Historian Thank you. Keep my dreams alive.
2nd upvote in 5 yrs??? Comment was way better than that.
Liam Hogue is his name I believe
@@jerometruitt2731 Liam Hogan. There are links to his medium page in the description.
Life time investment > rented car which one do you think got it worse...
Fellow European >African Chattel,which one do you think had it worse
The African slaves.... duh.
Awesome video, thank you for adding your voice to the intellectually honest on this subject. Bravo!
good info thanks
Did anyone else see serious compression artifacts near the beginning? Also: chattel. Not chattle.
+Carl Fink Hi! I can't say I noticed any myself after checking on a couple of different devices. Thanks for spotting the typo. I'll insert an annotation with the correct spelling
Great video I learned a lot
thank you!
very very funny even though he is trying to be serious tho bless em
Go raibh maith agat!
+GaolNaofa Tá fáilte romhat!