Such a great points about Rick’s therapist - and the choice to present the therapist as Rick’s equal shows that although Rick doesn’t “respect therapy,” the writers do
@@FairygobletProbably because their god Rick Sanchez was actually receiving valid criticism in a coherent way that exposes the insane lengths he will go to avoid doing something that he doesn’t want to do
Therapist (and former English Lit student) here! Constantly torn between my frustration about media portrayals of therapists and my understanding that their role is highly mediated by the needs of the narrative! Thanks so much for this thoughtful in-depth video that felt absolutely tailor-made to my interests
Former psych major and now creative writing MFA student here and I feel this so much. I just wish more writers would represent therapy accurately and let that drive the story forward! We need more stories that show good therapy and how it can affect characters’ growth in conjunction with other factors
A psychiatrist diagnoses mental illness and prescribes medication. A therapist assists in recovery through exercise following a physical injury or some other kind of physically disabling event - Google AI, probably @@mattymerr701
Dan Harmon, one of the showrunners of Rick and Morty, has mentioned that Rick turning himself into a pickle is a metaphor for alcoholism. Agter all, a euphemism for "drunk" is "pickled."
Not that I don't believe you; but, I have to wonder why the show went for a euphemism for alcoholism instead of just depicting it when the show does it all the time? It is (or perhaps was) one of Rick's defining character traits.
@@Takejiro24 i think because above all things it's still a comedy show and that was the funniest route for the start of the episode and lead to the episode doings things none other did up to that point (rick having to make do with absolutly nothing/mundane everyday stuff and fighting while being tiny)
@@Takejiro24 I suspect it might also be because Rick's alcoholism up to this point is examined primarily through its impact on him and others, whereas in this episode Harmon wanted to delve into the self-sustaining nature of it by showing metaphorically how it makes Rick _feel_ -- after all, if it just hurts everyone, why do it? But that's just a guess on my part.
I think with the therapist in Joker, it is that it feels like the film is writing in big letters 'this is not right' rather than showing bad therapy uncritically. Joker is if nothing elsena call to action to treat mental health seriously, not because we might end up with a villain, but because we watch someone suffer and struggle until they collapse.
'writing in big letters' is an understatement. I'd say that's literally the plot of the movie. The guy tried to find several exits through understanding before saying 'fuck it' and becoming the Joker.
Not just mental health but showing care to the vulnerable members of society and the importance of our social systems and safety nets. There's a reason Gotham was going through a garbage strike in the background.
For Lucifer. Not only is he the type that walk in and out as he please, he also tends to almost intentionally misunderstand her if she isn't being clear. So her way of doing makes more sense from a plot perspective and not just as a narrative time constriction.
I believe the Lucifer script deserves a bit more credit. Lucifer is speaking bluntly about supernatural events, which gets decoded by the therapist and turned into proper advice to improve his emotional state but can and eventually will be misinterpreted as advice for taking physical action by Lucifer. Yes, it is bit hamfisted - the advice "run through your fear of your mother" is realized by him running a spear through his mother, with him even explaining the joke. But in the end it is still a clever way of foreshadowing in a quippy fashion. Unrelated comment: I love how you naturally defaulted to a Morgan Freeman impression when mimicking a stereotypical off-screen narrator. 😂 Thanks for the video! ❤
Just to add, the show's running joke is that regardless of how on the nose Linda is, Lucifer WILL misunderstand it. The scene works perfectly well in the show's context.
@@crowe3627 Exactly and the guaranteed misinterpretation is why Linda is so on the nose, trying to be exceptionally clear about principles in the hope that this time he'll learn something.... XD!
You guys convinced me to schedule a followup with my therapist. Thank you for that, I was really procrastinating because I wasn't sure how to address the stuff she wanted to talk about during the follow-up
I think ironically for me, Sean grabbing Will's throat actually makes me trust him more. I think a lot of media versions of therapists show them as these zen-like people who you can't illicit a reaction from, and as such they don't feel fully human. They seem like perfected beings that don't have more growing of their own to do. Towards the end of the video Curtis mentioned that therapists need to set their own flaws to the side to focus on their clients and in the real world that's definitely the right move, but Sean grabbing Will shows that he also still has room to grow. As you mentioned, Sean's whole thing is trust, and after that moment we can trust that if we insult his wife, we're dead. He's still a human at his core. He values the love for his wife more than professional ethics. It kind of reminds me of the whole "its not a threat, its a promise" sort of thing. Since we understand Will has violent tendencies, we can now trust that Sean can understand Will on a deeper level because he'll understand Will both intellectually and emotionally. He's a future version of Will that reverted for a moment, but even though he's farther along than Will, he's stuck as well. He needs to heal from the pain of his dead wife, and while he helps Will, Will helps him. It leads to the end when he decides to get out and start dating again. They have both grown and pushed through their pain and have made actions to move forward.
Super interesting take. It definitely speaks to some of the challenges in therapy IRL: some therapists will swear by disclosing absolutely zero parts of themselves, which while it can help with objectivity and boundaries, it can also block rapport and trust because, just like you said, it's hard to open up to someone who doesn't feel like a real person. I know a lot of clients appreciate self-disclosure from their therapist, knowing they aren't perfect, just someone who's a little more experienced in this part of life or a little further ahead on their journey.
True enough, but I would still say that they are both portrayed as bigger than life personalities. Surely some physical aggression is helping him in exactly the way you describe in this film...but that is really difficult to teach in a real life class "if you assault the client in juuuuuuuust the right way, that´ll surely fix ´em right up" or as the film put it: "nail ´em while they´re vulnerable". Honestly, I think all other relationships than the one between those two are done better but it obviously is the feel good one with the most focus put on it...and Robin Williams in his heartful portrayal obviously invokes the feeling you get when he does that. But what if he had any doubts as a normal person would? In a different frame, if that was what the movie sets out to do, it could have been the exact same setup and completely veered into the exact opposite direction from there. That kinda breaks immersion for me in this scene. It´s the movie being over the top, shocking, unexpected, a struggle. Good to get the viewer invested. But looking at it from the lense of how I would want to be treated or what good therapy should look like...well it certainly takes those two characters to see it as "something has just gone terribly wrong, perfect turning point for a happy ending route?".
@@ivorytorea Oh i absolutely agree, to clarify I only hold this opinion in the context of film. I wouldn't ever want a therapist to assault me because I said something that crossed a line. I think it just speaks to Sean's character in a film perspective that he has flaws that feel very human
To be clear I know you're not saying it's a good thing to do or even a good northern star; but the broader point, even still, boy, you sure can accomplish that in other ways. Expressing passion can make me trust you more in that way; grabbing my throat will never make me trust you. No, I don't even trust in "the truth of your passion" or w/e; you've just shown me instability - I don't know what to trust. Why am I trusting it's passion...? Passion could have just lit the match. etc etc etc Naaaah, dawg. Don't loose yourself. You can have a self. But don't loose it. Then there's no self for me to trust. Impulses aren't trustworthy even if their motivations seem consistent. You wanna get mad about something, dope. You wanna express anger in "a human" *eye roll* way, take it somewhere else. A cashier giving me an honest answer when I ask how they're doing might well be endearing; punching me 'cuz I reminded your that your dog just d!ed is not - like I get it, sure, but that does not help this interaction. If I make you start crying maybe I'll reflect and consider how to more carefully, precisely and honestly interact; if you punch me I'm just gonna stop asking people questions brah xD If anything it's a filmmaker's attempt to express the "passion can beget trust" thing in a terse way without having to do the longer scene where Sean does just do a better version of this; but I just can't stand next to that take when the context is this overstated You wanna expression passion, you do you But don't touch me, bro I've had stuff happen, don't touch me, bro, I'll freak out. No I mean like, please. This isn't some edgelord threat, I'm saying please. Please don't invade my space without warning. You're mad about your dead wife...? I've had people grab me before and I'm sad about what happened next. Don't touch me, bro, I'll care a lot more about your wife when your hands aren't on me Impulse does not build trust. Impulse is impulse. Honesty builds trust. You know how you be honest..? With expression. You know how many ways there are to express honesty...? Golly, so many more than letting your anger flare into physical action
I haven't watched the video yet, so excuse my ignorance if they address it, but I'm pretty sure Sean isn't a practicing therapist. That's why he's teaching at a community college, because he himself is broken. And it's meeting and ultimately helping Will that gives him a new outlook on life. Though I do believe if Will also insulted Sean's wife at the end of the letter just for kicks, the sequel would've been Hunting Will Good which would've been the even bloodier and insane prequel to No Country for Old Men as we learn that Anton Chigurh was originally a psychiatrist from Southie. And if the timeline doesn't seem to make sense. Time travel. I said it's even more insane. Edit: Sorry to any and all community college professors. I didn't mean to imply you're all broken. And why does the other Mandela timeline get all the fun Oscar winners?
Something i wish to say about Ricks Therapist is that Rick comes back, and he comes back on his own. I think the family therapy is over, but Rick keeps going on his own, and it is shown that she is his equal, able to go toe to toe with him and challenging him in ways he is not that good at.
"Is it possible that a huge reason you're stuck is that you don't know what you want?" I think an even more common reason, in fact, the exact reason in Good Will Hunting, isn't that clients don't know what they want. It's that they DO know what they want and it's the exact opposite of what everyone around them and society says that they SHOULD want. Getting stuck is often knowing what you want but not having the courage or strength to actually do it and disappoint a bunch of people around you.
The joker scene probably feels like it's not a portrayal of what-a-therapis-is-like(^tm) because it highlights the therapists greater connection to the system. Like in part joker is about how the system fails people. Instead of being "the therapist scene" like the other shows where focus is on how therapy can be used to highlight things about the character. The scene therapist in joker is an extention of the theme of the system failing him. She exists within the context of the system whereas the in alot of other media the therapist just exist
The drool that came out of my mouth when I found out that my two biggest interests, Psychology and Film, have come together in this beautiful way can't be understated
Thank you for bringing up "bad fit" therapy sessions. I was annoyed by how Good Will Hunting portrayed these therapists as grumpy and rude when Will was being disrespectful. I know an example of when someone visited a therapist and they weren't compatible. Now, the therapist was friendly and kind, but their nature was too different.
Another example of how in a show that’s centralized around therapy it still doesn’t do a perfect job of portraying therapists 💁🏼♂️ that’s a good point to bring up how Will was really a bit of a jerk and these are people doing their best to help. Great insight 🙏🏻
Bad fit is sometimes an excuse for abusive behaviour from the therapist. You don't get to ruin someone's psyche and then say "oh, it was just a "bad fit". I have never had a therapist, no matter how grossly incompetent, no matter how ignorant, that admitted they were in over their heads.
It just feels like you don't understand Lucifer. The show is trying to show a therapist being caught off-guard and adapting to treating non-humans, because all the info they get from Lucifer sounds like insanity until she finds out he's actually the devil. She's blunt because the immortals ironically have no patience for complexity.
"Why are there so many more shows about police officers, firefighters, and doctors, then there are about therapists?" The work of those professions are much more viseually interesting then the work therapists do. An honest therepist show would have tons of extremely interesting conversation and conflicts, but unless you create some twist ("the therapist is a ghost and visiting clients in their dreams!"), there wouldn't be much for set designers and costumers to do. Movies and TV are a visual medium, you can't get around that.
It has to be said that this is precisely because the shows misrepresent what normal life for these professions is like. Police spend a lot of time on paperwork, and doctors tend to have little individual input in how their patients are treated, on top of having multiple patients to care for. This is why you have this genre of Grey's Anatomy-likes where they have to pretend everything is life-and-death, and a lot of shoehorned sex and romance.
There's a good podcast about a therapist for superheros called The Bright Sessions where the first season is basically just that. (Then there is a twist and more plot develops lol)
I had a therapist like Arthur's. She just didn't listen, and I could tell she was just going through checkboxes. Took me through CBT despite my autism and me telling her that. Filling out the CBT questionnaires was incredibly stressful, and I ended up leaving therapy feeling worse, not better. Worst part was that it took 3 years to even get therapy. The NHS mental health services f*cking suck. I'm on two different medications for my conditions, and in a much better place now, but still have issues with supply of one of my medications, and had to go without for 3 weeks. On a more positive note, I got given a relationship councillor early on by accident (Which... How does that even happen), but she was trained in therapy, and did end up actually helping me a bit. She listened and cared. She was also dumbfounded how I ended up being put to her. Wish there was more like her.
Yeah, NHS therapy is almost always CBT or nothing. I was fortunate enough to access a psychoanalytic therapist through my work. I wont say it was easy, because it very much was not, nor will I say it would work for you, because it might not. But for me, I needed someone to help me look at myself properly and they did that. If you are working for a reasonably large company check your benefits package to see if they offer some medical services, they might even be able to help you with the medication access issues. You can also potentially access mental health support through occupational health, which might be useful. It might involve disclosing more than you want to to your employeer but it is a route.
There definitely isn't a one size fits all therapy, but I have heard of autistic people benefiting from CBT for emotion regulation (e.g., helping with black and white thinking, addressing beliefs that contribute to burnout through perfectionism and masking), although it's also not for everyone and it's still important for the therapist to work with your goals and help you find a better fit if it's not working for you. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I'm fucking cackling. I've never seen Good Will Hunting but my mom wants me to because she says I'm like Will. I find that clip fascinating because people have threatened to choke me out too
Mr. Robot has a favourite therapist of mine. Not because of accuracy of her profession but the dangers. Her client constantly lies to her and whether or not it's good he ignores her advice, eventully he begins to spiral. He also gets overattached to her and starts stalking her boyfriend and eventually blackmails him. Even through all that, and despite knowing all that, Krista still tries to help Elliot. She becomes important to Elliot and the narrative, not as a tool that represents change and progress for the characters but as a person who is important to Elliot.
The fatal flaw in all movie therapists is that they don’t respect patient confidentiality. I mean who lets their therapy sessions be recorded and sold by Hollywood for us all to watch?
I also believe that, in the case of highly intelligent people, they also tend to believe that they already understand themselves. That fallacy that because they’re so smart, there’s nothing anyone else can teach them because they already know everything. Especially when it comes to themselves because who could possibly know them better than themselves.
Great point. The parallel example on the other end of the spectrum would be those of us who are highly engaged with our emotions believing that everything we feel is true. In both cases the error means we cut ourselves off from new important pieces of information.
one tiny thing. Robin Williams is actually a teacher who teaches therapy, not a _real_ therapist. plus, he does an unconventional and exceptional method because in the movie its highlighted that this is an exceptional case for an extraordinary person.
(I haven't finished the video yet, sorry if you already touched on this!!) Watching The West Wing made me realize a lot of tv/movie therapists aren't very good because they're specifically trying to play into this fantasy of therapy not involving any emotions. I don't know if you've seen The West Wing, but the therapist in that gets people to confront problems by basically yelling at them until they have realizations - there's no caring, nobody cries, nobody's comforted: it's macho man therapy where you get to brute-force your character arc, and the only emotion you have to feel during it is anger and aggression. It's kind of interesting.
These guys look like the younger, hotter replacements that corporate found after firing Cinema Therapy. You guys have a very similar kind cadence that's fun to watch.
Sorry, I just found these guys and thought it was a different version of Cinema Therapy. Is that one still on? I didn't watch it all the time but it was interesting when I did.
This really needs a second part! There are so many interesting examples still left on the table: Dr. Melfi from the Sopranos, Christa from Mr. Robot and Dr. Paul Western from HBO's therapy series In Treatment are the first that came to my mind.
Second on Mr. Robot. I think it's one of the more fascinating takes, and also the fact that she's a recurring character throughout the whole series who becomes a pivotal character in one of the shows biggest twists (without spoiling anything). I would honestly love to hear these guys' take on the entire show in general. As a film/tv nerd who also goes to therapy, I think it's one of the most interesting shows where mental health is one of the main themes of the show.
Yeah, my first thought of therapists in pop culture it was The Sopranos. I'd like to hear what you think of the Harrison Ford show on AppleTV, Shrinking. I'm not in love with the title...
As a therapist, I agree that the best depiction of a therapist (and one I modeled myself off of) was Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting (just with less choking). The thing that makes him such a fantastic example is he expressed unconditional positive regard perfectly, and he also isn't perfect himself. He is a flawed man (as therapists are, we are flawed), but he genuinely expresses the concepts of Rogers and Moustakas to the letter, and I even appreciate that they made him vulnerable enough to risk sacrificing his license when his own trauma and grief from his deceased wife comes in and he lashes out. Rarely have I met a therapist colleague who doesn't look at Good Will Hunting as their favorite representation.
Great way to put it. I think part of why I love the depiction is that rogerian relationship that they forge, and the demonstration of how true person-to-person contact is so valuable in facilitating healing ❤️
Im not a native speaker of english but I love how you guys talk; the way you use idioms, the gestures and even the rithm/tone do really help me understand better
It's a good point about RnM that doing that first session is awfully, uuh, frontloaded; but I think one of the reasons it works despite that is 'cuz she didn't actually "break him down" or whatever, like the point stands she tried to go deep fast and this isn't a reflection of irl, but relative to Rick's mental state all she really did was tell him "you made a dumb choice today and you know it", like none of this is really *foundational* to Rick it's just the core of _today's_ expressions, what would have been "too far" [for him] would be trying to talk about Diane already or in general trying to assert more about him broadly and axiomatically or w/e; he showed up as a pickle, she pointed out how that was an expression of his troubled values and how that has spread into his family life. She didn't go ham expressing in precise detail how he is at his core "this that and the other" and talk briskly about all his traumas and whatnot; she just said you're now metaphorically AND literally pickling under the weight of your choices. Like, she didn't "break him down" she "took him down a peg"; and she only did even that by simply showing up on his level [which nobody was supposed to do] and talking to him frankly. Yes what is said here would be crazy first session, but relative to Rick's peripheral and "in actively dissonant denial" awareness of himself and how topical the things in this episode are to his deeper problems, I think we as the audience are to assume 1. This is far from the depths of Rick's, well, with retrospect despair, and 2. Rick does have the self awareness to hear this talk as ringing true as opposed to any initial anger confusion etc. Like, he knows he's doing this. She didn't actually "attack him at his core", she just said "I see you dawg" and he had to begrudgingly take his mask off. He knew it was a mask, this isn't actually all that deep for Rick yet. She's not exposing him to himself for the first time; she's not even exposing him to his family for the first time, really; she just said I see you. Again, irl this is frontloaded af and would prolly require at least a little presumption at best; but in the show it's not actually "feeling like too much" for Rick; She didn't break HIM down, she broke down this dumb game he tried to play with his family, something Rick already knew was teetering given Beth's reaction at the start This is less analogous to "somebody walks in and day one you confront them with too much", and more "somebody walked in mad at you for being their therapist without even meeting you and day one you say _hey I think this would be good for you, actually_" or something along those lines. How frontloaded it was I think has a fair amount to do with how scifi high concept the story beat is. Calling out in that much detail a family dynamic in front of said family might well be a bad practice for first sessions; but if grandpa is literally pickling himself and donning pest carcasses to avoid working on his family life, I think it scans for somebody as actively [ie with awareness] in denial as Rick to be told "hey, uuh, this is a shallow bag of tricks, bro". Yes she suggested he has a problem with drab mundanities rather quickly; he licked a cockroach brain and almost d!ed from dehydration, and ostensibly regretted none of it, to avoid therapy, I think at that point you kind of HAVE to say SOMETHING impactful before you let them leave xD
I love how, in the beginning Rick thinks therapy is just dumb and just overall inadequate. But as the therapist starts to show that she is indeed actually very smart and knows what she’s doing, Rick starts to see her on a new level that he didn’t expect and, in his own Rick Sanchez style, actually starts to respect her.
I’m so glad the algorithm has brought me to your guy’s channel and I hope more people are able to see your videos cause having your two different perspective come together adds so much more nuance and brings new ideas that you don’t see in most film discussion channels
I think maybe the Joker scene feels better because it makes you connect the dots. In the Lucifer one, their words were just there to pass exposition between eachother. It's said outright. But in the Joker, you're thinking about things behind the words, like the state of Gotham and how him losing the therapy is gonna affect him because you know he's gonna become the joker. The Lucifer one is basically saying what we already know. The Joker one is setting things up and making you think about the state of the characters and the world. It gives you that "oh no" feeling.
@@100frogbucket there’s hours of scenes of therapy in that show, discussions between therapists, different types of therapists… it’s odd to leave it out.
About 5 minutes in. I've gone to therapy, used to often, and had different therapists. Some work, some don't, some were excellent and supported after retirement, some were so horrid it felt like I was in a movie. The representation comes from some where, yes its extreme, but therapists ARE people. They are flawed, and some can be so bad at their job, these representations can just be extreme retellings of personal anecdotes. My first ever experience in therapy was a woman asking me what's going on in my life. She listened intently, didn't write anything, and just asked me questions guiding me so I could figure out my problems on my own. She was also incessant about finding me outside of her workplace and making sure I couldn't skip out on a session after I skipped one due to work. It felt suffocating and I had to switch. if I made a movie about a therapist, I would highlight the "stalking" because that's what it felt like, even though it likely wasn't.
I think bad representation is when a story with a bad therapist is telling you that it's a good one. Meaningfully different from an intentional, good portrayal of a bad therapist.
53:23 You just proved my point about the failure to win mental health malpractice lawsuits resulting in most people not being aware of the malpractice that is happening.
I love this so much! I am a therapist and a film enthusiast and I love the fact that this podcast exists at the intersection of the stories we tell and the stories we tell ourselves. If y'all ever need a guest spot, I have no online presence of value, but I love a good banter! 😅 So many insights from this episode that resonated with me around the functionality of media portrayals of therapists/therapy, I loved pondering how the therapist serves the audience, the character(s) and the plot and all the other technical film making pieces that also serve those same functions in driving the story the film is telling. I think what really hit home was the piece about the essence of therapy/therapists highlighted in GWH and how true therapy is about building relationships, and helping clients extract their own authenticity out of the space that is held for them in sessions in order to redirect their lives in a direction that is aligned with their true selves. I love that film can also offer that to audience members through the emotional and archetypal representations of characters which allow audiences to project their own authentic experiences onto these stories and characters in ways that are meaningful and sometimes even change how we live our lives by watching the characters navigate the landscape of their experiences. This intersection of film and psychology is a crop ripe for harvest and I'm excited to see what is next!
As someone who was misdiagnosed by the VA for 30 years and was the victim of 948 INDIVIDUAL medical errors, here's what I want to see: A REALISTIC PORTRAYAL OF MENTAL HEALTH CARE THAT I EXPERIENCED: - Availability Bias - Framing Effect - Anchoring Bias - Ascertainment Bias - Base Rate Neglect - Commission Bias - Confirmation Bias - Diagnosis Momentum - Ego Bias - Familiarity Bias - Fundamental Attribution Error - Gambler's Fallacy - Group Thinking - Hindsight Bias - Omission Bias - Order Effect - Overconfidence Bias (which is one reason I DREAD getting an older clinician.) - Playing the Odds - Posterior Probability Error - Premature Closure - Psych-out Error - Representativeness Restraint - Search Satisfying - Self Serving Bias - Sutton's Slip - Semmelweis Reflex (which is another reason I DREAD getting an older clinician.) - Triage Cueing - Unpacking Principle - Vertical Line Failure - Zebra Retreat Here's some of my therapy favorites: - REFUSING to screen for bipolar because the false positive rate is "unacceptably high". (The "VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guidelines for Management of Bipolar Disorder" LITERALLY say this. Then it uses the legalese of "These guidelines are not the official policy of the VA or DoD" to weasel out of liability for failing to do screenings. IMO, in the absence of policy, the guidelines become de facto policy). This is just one of many examples where administrators are making decisions when they don't understand what is happening in the clinical setting. And of course, (especially at the VA) the priority for clinicians is MAINTAINING ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARDS. This gets rationalized as "I can't help anyone if I'm fired," or "who's going to hire me after I get fired at the VA, which has abysmally low standards", or "how am I going to pay my bills if I get fired," or "well, we do the best we can." On a side note, a better test for bipolar is one simple question: "Do stop lights sometimes appear blindingly bright, and at other times extremely dull?" Even if that question only catches a small percentage of bipolar patients, it would likely have near-zero false positive rate, and having a small chance to catch bipolar is FAR better than a 100% chance of NEVER catching it because you refuse to do screenings. - Relying on memory to write clinical notes leading to massive amounts of incorrect information being recorded , or worse, trying to multitask while taking a patient's history. Which gets even more absurd when a patient asks to record private 1-on-1 clinic and therapy sessions, only to be told they can't because the patient might alter the recordings and file a malpractice lawsuit. And this gets even MORE absurd when you realize that the VA actually ADVERTISES that the VA is a great place to work because they protect clinicians from malpractice lawsuits. This isn't unique to the VA. After decades of medical errors, I finally got the VA to pay for outside care. But every therapist I checked out refused to allow recordings. You would think that "oh, this patient is suffering from malpractice-related PTSD. Perhaps we should make accommodations so that we can treat him." is something that would be more important than "cover your ass." I even told them I'd get 2 voice recorders for each session, and they could keep one. But no. My advice is to learn shorthand if you need mental health medical care. - Getting in a hurry and/or speaking English as a second language leading to mistaken belief that the unnumbered question in the PC-PTSD-5 ("Have you EVER experienced a traumatic event") is only asking about the last 30 days. - Misdiagnosing PTSD as a Personality Disorder simply because it was more convenient for the military and the VA. Personality Disorders ARE NOT considered service-connected illnesses, and therefore receive no compensation or access to health care (at least in the 1990's) If you want to see why that happens, go to Google Scholar and do a search for "TO SAUDI AND BACK: A PRELIMINARY REPORT OF PSYCHIATRIC CASUALTIES EVACUATED FROM OPERATION DESERT SHIELD" (pages 9-16). Pay close attention to the statistics for "Adjustment Disorder" and "Personality Disorder" on page 13. Also of note are the numerous class action lawsuits that were WON against the VA for INTENTIONALLY using Personality and Adjustment disorder to avoid upgrading discharges for vets with compensable disorders. - Voluntarily checking into a psychiatric facility due to suicidal ideation while I'm trying to prepare my FTCA malpractice application against the VA. I tried showing the staff a printout of where they could find EACH AND EVERY medical error in my records. They refused to look at it, and took my "obviously delusional" claims as evidence of psychosis. When I decided to check out so that I could file my FTCA claim before the deadline, they violated Title 25 of the Wyoming statutes. During the court hearing where they tried to hold me an additional 10 days, they ADMITTED that they had no evidence I was a danger to myself or others. They also ADMITTED that they had no evidence that I was psychotic, but wanted an additional 10 days to find evidence of psychosis. I've had a shit experience with the entire field of mental health care. However, I wouldn't be alive without Lamotrigine and cognitive behavior therapy. Medicine works. Therapy works. The problem is the gargantuan pile of medical errors you have to climb over to get the right medicine and therapy.
Subscribed so fast. I've watched other "filmmaker/therapist" duos and despite loving the concept, so far have not liked the duos themselves. This is my first video of yours, but you guys seem great! Some amazing, real insights, some of which from pickle Rick of all things.
Would love it if you guys did a video on "scavengers reign." The visuals in that tv series were stunning and watching how the alien planet influenced the three main storylines was amazing. I feel like the show would be right down your ally to unpack.
Loved the episode and found it really eye opening. A little disappointed you guys didn't look at any therapy scenes from the Sopranos. Maybe a revisit is in order
Thanks so much! Haha yeah we're getting the sense that if we don't include Dr. Melfi in a future part 2 there's going to be a riot 😅😂 so she's pretty much a lock for that video
I'd just like to say, I didn't realise this was a new channel; nor that most of the videos don't have too many views, but I will tell you with 100% certainty that I think this channel will definitely get popular soon if you guys keep at it. I'm not going to say, "I really hope this channel gets more views/subs" because I honestly don't think I need to "hope".
Thanks @Sir-Reborn! That's incredibly kind of you to say! 🙏 Hopefully it won't take us too long to grow but we've been super happy with how much support and kindness people like yourself have given! It really means a lot. Can't wait to see you in the next episode! 😉
I think that in Will Hunting, the few first therapist are portrayed as highly successfull highly intelligent psychs and they are successfull because of that, but they are used to ''lower intelligence'' clients and when will comes in he's more intelligent then them and throws them off because he sees them as arrogant people even though he's arrogant himself. That's why that the ''less intelligent'' yet HIGHLY HUMAN Sean is the opposite to his strenght like Rick and tthe familly therapist.
Yes smart people see right through stuff and are not impressed or awed by plumage. It's why he loves his friends because they are good honest people that though deeply flawed are good people because they are themselves and care. Not the historian in the bar that will convince everyone how smart he is and probably write a book doing nothing of any real use in life unlike his friends despite it being demolition work or automotive work. Even Will acknowledged that doing math alone isn't in itself purposeful if it's just some crooked Corporate job damaging people.
first vid i saw from yall. the intellectual conversation that took place was amazing and im glad people still care for those types of conversations. Seems like its hard for people to take things seriously. thank you for the breath of fresh air.
17:30 I feel I should point out, that while a valid point, she specifically only did this with Rick because she recognized this is what he would respond to, brutal honest truth. With the rest of the family she was very gentle and affirming with their akward and stilted "i feel/want" statements but as soon as she got a feel for Rick's personality she adapted her approach
Bit late to the party, but I wanted to mention how much I appreciate your efforts with this channel! I have a passion for storytelling and recently completed my practicum for psychotherapy, so in a lot of ways, it feels like this channel was made for me. Much love and keep up the amazing work!
Wow! Thanks @Dill5005 🙏 That's super kind of you to say and we couldn't be more excited that you found us! Congrats on completing your practicum! That's huge! We can't wait to bring you more stuff soon! See you in the next one! 😉
The culmination of Melfi's arc is understanding Tony is so narcissistic that he's using therapy as training for how to abuse people in his life and once they break their personal and professional contact the show is ready to end.
She wasn't a perfect therapist but she also wasn't a perfect person so it made sense! I have a psych degree but and not a therapist (yet) but she felt realistic to me.
Therapy exists in media as a shortcut to exposition without a narrator, title cards, or "the Kid"/audience surrogate who needs everything explained to them. So, asking about childhood is actually a good way without having a flashback towards the past: childhood, school, training, trauma, family, job, relationships, etc.
Really enjoyed the nuance takes on the interpretations of therapy in film by you guys. I feel like you guys bring so much onto the table when dissecting concepts that is in film/television. I think a concept that I would like to see explored is tragedy. A lot of stories of old seems to revolve around tragedy. From a filmmaking and therapy perspective, why do you think the tragedy genre is so captivating to this day?
Thanks so much @firecracker1012! 🙏 That's really kind of you and we super appreciate it! Also yeah, GREAT suggestion for exploring tragedy in films, so much we could talk about in an episode about that 😄😭
I'd love to see your takes on Ted Lasso! Besides it being brilliant and hilarious, a therapist gets introduced in season 2 and I thought she was a great character and representation of a good therapist.
I thought you guys were gone. Turns out youtube was doing that thing where they randomly stop showing certain creators youtube videos in my feed (even though I'm subscribed). Now I have 3 videos to catch up on!
The episode "Analyze Piss" is one of the best episodes in all of Rick and Morty in general but features more very good interactions with the therapist and actually following advice
This video was my introduction to your channel, and it’s pretty great! The examination of therapy in film really shines a new light on both. Subscribed.
Congrats that the algorithm shined on you guys Very interesting talking points from a very different perspective than most essay channels Wish you good luck in the future
I think that, in part, therapists NEED to be portrayed wrongly in some media. Because if I’m in therapy, and I talk about - essentially - the main conflict of my story, we very well might therapy it away to a point where it’s not as conflicting or ‘juicy’ as it initially seemed. Like if I’m having a new presenting issue when I’m going to therapy, that’s all I’m talking about that session.
I admit to an attraction for these therapist/filmmaker dialogues. Cinema Therapy is another channel that does this. My first degree was in media production, which I still enjoy as a hobby but ended up disliking as an industry. My second field was counseling and therapy, which I've been making a living in for about 25 years. The title of the next video should be "The Fatal Flaw in All Movie Filmmakers", as least as an appeal to my own sense of symmetry.
I feel like she disasembled Rick's psyche in the first session because she could tell neither of the adults were coming back. This was her only chance to get them to think. The card was more for the kids than anything else
video was amazing actually makes me have some fun questions for my therapist of over a year and a half but im surprised the sopranos went unmentioned at all
I would have been super interested to see your takes on the therapy episode in Dexter, because that's a rare example where they're actually trying to portray a bad therapist, who's intentionally trying to harm his patients via therapy.
There are so many great insights in this video! I especially love the "Stereotypes are cognitively efficient" discussion. As a story writer myself, it really helps me think about stereotypes and tropes in a new way.
I definitely agree that the therapist engaging with Rick the way she did works FOR RICK. Not in general, but someone like Rick would actually respond well to something like that because Rick is someone who would not respond well to condescension or coddling (as he would see it). Rick has to respect someone to listen to them, and to do that they have to operate at his level in his style. Rick WILL NOT meaningfully engage with someone who does not challenge him in some way. In a sense, she read the adventure idea and showed (Not said, SHOWED) Rick that therapy would be a challenge or adventure for him.
As a soon-to-be therapist, I'd really be interested in knowing what kind of therapist Curtis is. CBT? Psychodynamic? Systemic? I know, this might not be of interest to most people, but it would really help me putting his opinions further into perspective.
Love the question! I primarily practice from an Emotion-Focused Therapy lens and using those techniques and case conceptualizations, although I pull from a number of other approaches as well when appropriate (CBT, EMDR, etc). I know when I was in school there was a lot of focus on selecting a theoretical orientation to practice from, but looking back now I think a big reason for that was more to reduce students attempts to try to learn everything (because there are SO many styles and techniques out there) and instead just focus on building a core practice based on one thing you can grasp, then spending the rest of your career, adding and adjusting as you need to based on what feels like a better fit. And honestly, maybe more important than anything, I've also learned that theory and technique tend to take a real backseat in the healing process to the simplicity of how you show up for your clients in the relationship with them every session; ideally with the compassion and non-judgment that facilitates their belief that they can change 😁❤️👍
@@FrameOfMindBros Hey, thanks for the answer! I am really happy to hear that you are this open minded. Truth be told, the university I studied at in germany was very CBT-centric - something that never really did sit well with me. There have been professors, who didn't even hide that they considered CBT superior to other forms of psychotherapy. And while I consider myself rather on the psychodynamic side of the equation (thanks to an incredibly good professor, who was kind of the last bastion for this. Her seminar revolved around a modernized view of Freuds early theories in the context of early child development), I actually do like aspects of systemic therapy, hypnotherapy and even CBT. And from what I have heard in actual practice, reality and university are two very different things. One of my teacher therapists (psychodynamic) once said: Once you learn how to work with transference and countertransference, you already have a big chunk of your job covered. Building a relationship is the core pillar of therapy. And that really stuck with me. Hence my interested, if you are a dry cognitive-behavioral therapist that I grew to dislike in university, or more open minded :) Again, thanks for your answer. Also, I really liked the insights an exchanges in this video. From my experience, way too few therapists and psychologists actually take a real interest in entertainment and storytelling.
Oh my god. The confusion between role and identity is SO common and it is especially prevalent in people with either a weakened sense of self, a heightened expectation of roles, or both.
Thanks for this amazing video. I love how thorough you both are from both writing and therapy point of view. I think a good show that needs the same kind of analysis is "Shrinking". You should really look into it.
I hope there is a follow-up to this someday, as I'd love to see your reaction to Carmela's therapist from The Sopranos. He has exactly one scene and it's easily one of the highlights of the entire show
I got curious about Dr Melfi, from Sopranos. I feel like she was detatched a bit from the narrative at times, but she was the first therapist that came to my mind from the beginning of the conversation.
I have to be 100% honest, I never watched the Sopranos 😅 but this is a great excuse to watch it now. Judging by the number of people who share your opinion I think she's obligated to appear in our Part 2 once I've watched enough of the series
I think this was a verrry great breakdown on therapists in media. I would love to see another part and some recommendations i would love to see is "The Sopranos" as well as the show "Hannibal". overall GREAT content.
I think the core of the issue is that, the typical role of the TV therapist is to identify a character flaw or problem and also fail to solve it, so the main character can go through their arc and solve their problem in their own way. There is always some tension that makes the main character reject the counsel of the therapist, since it would be a bit boring or anticlimactic seeing someone actually work out their problems while sitting down and talking for an hour.
I wish you'd do another video with more shows like Falcon & the Winter Soldier VA therapist or the therapist in The Patient or in DR House... anyway great video really interesting!
I think it's clear that people want a "Therapist Part 2" video...so you can probably expect one 😉 Your suggestions have been noted, filed, and are definitely influencing our next steps! We appreciate your input and can’t wait to share what’s coming next. Stay tuned! 😊
One takeaway I mostly have from making movies/shows or other media, is that it comes with *their* understanding of the world. Meaning that a some of niches aren’t shown great at all. Therapy is sometimes the most complex thing that exists, you kinda have to understand those gray areas. And some work is intellectually really hard, no wonder why we say ‘it’s not rocket science’, because rocket science seems like a difficult expertise. But sometimes directors don’t know the world at all, and I actually don’t *really* expect them to because it may be more difficult than some expertises at all. But if a movie is bad because of that or people find it bad; it is what is is
I’m very surprised to hear that people are afraid to having their psyche deconstructed when they go to therapy. I feel like that is the whole reason I would go, especially with how expensive it is. I tried therapy and was really disappointed that I didn’t really get anything from my therapist and it was just me talking about my problems to someone. I would really love a therapist like Ada Wong, to tear me down so I can be built back up into something better
Rick always wants challenges, so the therapist coming back at him is the only reason he has been able to grow and continue to talk with her, even on airforce wong
This was an interesting video. I'll add some more therapist depictions that have stuck with me over the years, in case there's a part two. The Netflix series Never Have I Ever was an interesting one. Felt like the therapist was her own person whose life didn't fully revolve around Devi as a client. Big Little Lies; because of how the advice Celeste received changed--in a very important way--once the therapist knew more about her conditions. The Matrix Resurrections; I've read multiple interpretations regarding casting Neil Patrick Harris, a gay actor, as the therapist, and how that can be seen as representative of other LGBT people invalidating trans experiences. Given the way his character made Neo doubt his own identity. Don't know how much that speaks for therapy overall, but it was interesting to me. Edited to fix typos
Robin’s character in GWH is a good therapist for Will because he himself was abused as a child and has much unresolved rage- as Will would not accept or humor traditional therapy, it is Robin’s very inappropriate and absolutely absurd physical attack on Will that allows him to see the flawed human beneath the therapist that he can accept help from. But it is the scene in the film that always bugged me, too.
Joker's story reminds me a lot of my own.. i was in therapy for two years, and then my therapist quit.. she put me on the wait list for a new one, but it took a long time to even get a response. During that time i got so bad off mentally that i had to call emergency services for help.. and because i did that, they had "proof" that therapy wasn't helping me, and so they never gave me a new therapist... all they tey here before giving up is CBT by the way.. so if that type of therapy isn't a fit for ya, you're sh*t outa luck
There are times where it can be super on the nose in a bad way but in my experience I love it when it’s done well. Like for me I had a therapist tell me something that I kinda already knew, but her sudden bluntness (after being frustratingly not so the rest of the time) was kind of refreshing. Straight up told me no to expect my mom to change her behavior after years of being abusive. And even tho k already knew that and was already planning on going minimum cal tact with my mom but her saying it the way she did told me she gets it.
Such a great points about Rick’s therapist - and the choice to present the therapist as Rick’s equal shows that although Rick doesn’t “respect therapy,” the writers do
Well said! 🙌🏻 Stoked you liked it 😁
I always assumed the speech that Susan Sarandon gives is something that Dan Harmon's therapist probably said to him
I remember when this episode came out a lot of people in the clip comment section were upset that the therapist was portrayed as competent basically
Eh
@@FairygobletProbably because their god Rick Sanchez was actually receiving valid criticism in a coherent way that exposes the insane lengths he will go to avoid doing something that he doesn’t want to do
Therapist (and former English Lit student) here! Constantly torn between my frustration about media portrayals of therapists and my understanding that their role is highly mediated by the needs of the narrative! Thanks so much for this thoughtful in-depth video that felt absolutely tailor-made to my interests
Thank you! Glad you found us! 😁
Former psych major and now creative writing MFA student here and I feel this so much. I just wish more writers would represent therapy accurately and let that drive the story forward! We need more stories that show good therapy and how it can affect characters’ growth in conjunction with other factors
Lol
human Being here.
God people who start youtube comments like that are so cringe. No one cares dude
@@John-nk3ejsore loser
@@John-nk3ej And yet, here you are.
Clearly, the ideal fictional therapist is Hannibal Lecter.
Joking, joking, of course. He's a psychiatrist, not a therapist.
That is a critical distinction 😂🐑
I'm stealing this joke
I was thinking about him the whole time… just finished reading the silence of the lambs
Does therapist mean psychologist? Or is it a councilor?
A psychiatrist diagnoses mental illness and prescribes medication. A therapist assists in recovery through exercise following a physical injury or some other kind of physically disabling event
- Google AI, probably
@@mattymerr701
Dan Harmon, one of the showrunners of Rick and Morty, has mentioned that Rick turning himself into a pickle is a metaphor for alcoholism. Agter all, a euphemism for "drunk" is "pickled."
Whoa! That makes so much sense 😂 what an amazing addition 🙌🏻
🥒
Not that I don't believe you; but, I have to wonder why the show went for a euphemism for alcoholism instead of just depicting it when the show does it all the time? It is (or perhaps was) one of Rick's defining character traits.
@@Takejiro24 i think because above all things it's still a comedy show and that was the funniest route for the start of the episode and lead to the episode doings things none other did up to that point (rick having to make do with absolutly nothing/mundane everyday stuff and fighting while being tiny)
@@Takejiro24 I suspect it might also be because Rick's alcoholism up to this point is examined primarily through its impact on him and others, whereas in this episode Harmon wanted to delve into the self-sustaining nature of it by showing metaphorically how it makes Rick _feel_ -- after all, if it just hurts everyone, why do it? But that's just a guess on my part.
I think with the therapist in Joker, it is that it feels like the film is writing in big letters 'this is not right' rather than showing bad therapy uncritically. Joker is if nothing elsena call to action to treat mental health seriously, not because we might end up with a villain, but because we watch someone suffer and struggle until they collapse.
Very well put 🫡
Also, from my point of view, the social worker in that clip was a victim of the same system, too!
'writing in big letters' is an understatement. I'd say that's literally the plot of the movie.
The guy tried to find several exits through understanding before saying 'fuck it' and becoming the Joker.
Not just mental health but showing care to the vulnerable members of society and the importance of our social systems and safety nets.
There's a reason Gotham was going through a garbage strike in the background.
For Lucifer. Not only is he the type that walk in and out as he please, he also tends to almost intentionally misunderstand her if she isn't being clear. So her way of doing makes more sense from a plot perspective and not just as a narrative time constriction.
Sounds like meeting your client where they're at 👍
Also, she is much more friend who gives advice than therapist for him.
@@FrameOfMindBros yeah but it has the added layer of her trying to work within his delusion for a long while
She also is terrified of him, he is after all, fucking lucifer
there's scenes that show even when she is crystal clear and spells it out for him, Lucifer will still misconstrue her advice to fit his needs
I believe the Lucifer script deserves a bit more credit. Lucifer is speaking bluntly about supernatural events, which gets decoded by the therapist and turned into proper advice to improve his emotional state but can and eventually will be misinterpreted as advice for taking physical action by Lucifer. Yes, it is bit hamfisted - the advice "run through your fear of your mother" is realized by him running a spear through his mother, with him even explaining the joke. But in the end it is still a clever way of foreshadowing in a quippy fashion.
Unrelated comment: I love how you naturally defaulted to a Morgan Freeman impression when mimicking a stereotypical off-screen narrator. 😂
Thanks for the video! ❤
Just to add, the show's running joke is that regardless of how on the nose Linda is, Lucifer WILL misunderstand it. The scene works perfectly well in the show's context.
@@crowe3627 Exactly and the guaranteed misinterpretation is why Linda is so on the nose, trying to be exceptionally clear about principles in the hope that this time he'll learn something.... XD!
You guys convinced me to schedule a followup with my therapist. Thank you for that, I was really procrastinating because I wasn't sure how to address the stuff she wanted to talk about during the follow-up
That's amazing, so glad to hear!! ❤️🫡
I think ironically for me, Sean grabbing Will's throat actually makes me trust him more. I think a lot of media versions of therapists show them as these zen-like people who you can't illicit a reaction from, and as such they don't feel fully human. They seem like perfected beings that don't have more growing of their own to do. Towards the end of the video Curtis mentioned that therapists need to set their own flaws to the side to focus on their clients and in the real world that's definitely the right move, but Sean grabbing Will shows that he also still has room to grow.
As you mentioned, Sean's whole thing is trust, and after that moment we can trust that if we insult his wife, we're dead. He's still a human at his core. He values the love for his wife more than professional ethics. It kind of reminds me of the whole "its not a threat, its a promise" sort of thing. Since we understand Will has violent tendencies, we can now trust that Sean can understand Will on a deeper level because he'll understand Will both intellectually and emotionally. He's a future version of Will that reverted for a moment, but even though he's farther along than Will, he's stuck as well.
He needs to heal from the pain of his dead wife, and while he helps Will, Will helps him. It leads to the end when he decides to get out and start dating again. They have both grown and pushed through their pain and have made actions to move forward.
Super interesting take. It definitely speaks to some of the challenges in therapy IRL: some therapists will swear by disclosing absolutely zero parts of themselves, which while it can help with objectivity and boundaries, it can also block rapport and trust because, just like you said, it's hard to open up to someone who doesn't feel like a real person. I know a lot of clients appreciate self-disclosure from their therapist, knowing they aren't perfect, just someone who's a little more experienced in this part of life or a little further ahead on their journey.
True enough, but I would still say that they are both portrayed as bigger than life personalities. Surely some physical aggression is helping him in exactly the way you describe in this film...but that is really difficult to teach in a real life class "if you assault the client in juuuuuuuust the right way, that´ll surely fix ´em right up" or as the film put it: "nail ´em while they´re vulnerable". Honestly, I think all other relationships than the one between those two are done better but it obviously is the feel good one with the most focus put on it...and Robin Williams in his heartful portrayal obviously invokes the feeling you get when he does that. But what if he had any doubts as a normal person would? In a different frame, if that was what the movie sets out to do, it could have been the exact same setup and completely veered into the exact opposite direction from there. That kinda breaks immersion for me in this scene. It´s the movie being over the top, shocking, unexpected, a struggle. Good to get the viewer invested. But looking at it from the lense of how I would want to be treated or what good therapy should look like...well it certainly takes those two characters to see it as "something has just gone terribly wrong, perfect turning point for a happy ending route?".
@@ivorytorea Oh i absolutely agree, to clarify I only hold this opinion in the context of film. I wouldn't ever want a therapist to assault me because I said something that crossed a line. I think it just speaks to Sean's character in a film perspective that he has flaws that feel very human
To be clear I know you're not saying it's a good thing to do or even a good northern star; but the broader point, even still, boy, you sure can accomplish that in other ways. Expressing passion can make me trust you more in that way; grabbing my throat will never make me trust you. No, I don't even trust in "the truth of your passion" or w/e; you've just shown me instability - I don't know what to trust. Why am I trusting it's passion...? Passion could have just lit the match. etc etc etc
Naaaah, dawg. Don't loose yourself. You can have a self. But don't loose it. Then there's no self for me to trust. Impulses aren't trustworthy even if their motivations seem consistent. You wanna get mad about something, dope. You wanna express anger in "a human" *eye roll* way, take it somewhere else. A cashier giving me an honest answer when I ask how they're doing might well be endearing; punching me 'cuz I reminded your that your dog just d!ed is not - like I get it, sure, but that does not help this interaction. If I make you start crying maybe I'll reflect and consider how to more carefully, precisely and honestly interact; if you punch me I'm just gonna stop asking people questions brah xD
If anything it's a filmmaker's attempt to express the "passion can beget trust" thing in a terse way without having to do the longer scene where Sean does just do a better version of this; but I just can't stand next to that take when the context is this overstated
You wanna expression passion, you do you
But don't touch me, bro
I've had stuff happen, don't touch me, bro, I'll freak out. No I mean like, please. This isn't some edgelord threat, I'm saying please. Please don't invade my space without warning. You're mad about your dead wife...? I've had people grab me before and I'm sad about what happened next. Don't touch me, bro, I'll care a lot more about your wife when your hands aren't on me
Impulse does not build trust. Impulse is impulse. Honesty builds trust. You know how you be honest..? With expression. You know how many ways there are to express honesty...? Golly, so many more than letting your anger flare into physical action
I haven't watched the video yet, so excuse my ignorance if they address it, but I'm pretty sure Sean isn't a practicing therapist. That's why he's teaching at a community college, because he himself is broken. And it's meeting and ultimately helping Will that gives him a new outlook on life.
Though I do believe if Will also insulted Sean's wife at the end of the letter just for kicks, the sequel would've been Hunting Will Good which would've been the even bloodier and insane prequel to No Country for Old Men as we learn that Anton Chigurh was originally a psychiatrist from Southie. And if the timeline doesn't seem to make sense. Time travel. I said it's even more insane.
Edit: Sorry to any and all community college professors. I didn't mean to imply you're all broken.
And why does the other Mandela timeline get all the fun Oscar winners?
Something i wish to say about Ricks Therapist is that Rick comes back, and he comes back on his own.
I think the family therapy is over, but Rick keeps going on his own, and it is shown that she is his equal, able to go toe to toe with him and challenging him in ways he is not that good at.
"Is it possible that a huge reason you're stuck is that you don't know what you want?" I think an even more common reason, in fact, the exact reason in Good Will Hunting, isn't that clients don't know what they want. It's that they DO know what they want and it's the exact opposite of what everyone around them and society says that they SHOULD want.
Getting stuck is often knowing what you want but not having the courage or strength to actually do it and disappoint a bunch of people around you.
A great point, and very true as well in my experience
The joker scene probably feels like it's not a portrayal of what-a-therapis-is-like(^tm) because it highlights the therapists greater connection to the system. Like in part joker is about how the system fails people. Instead of being "the therapist scene" like the other shows where focus is on how therapy can be used to highlight things about the character. The scene therapist in joker is an extention of the theme of the system failing him. She exists within the context of the system whereas the in alot of other media the therapist just exist
Great point!
Nice Ougi pfp
The drool that came out of my mouth when I found out that my two biggest interests, Psychology and Film, have come together in this beautiful way can't be understated
This might be one of my favorite comments ever! 🙏 I'm so glad you found us, and I'm really happy that you enjoyed the video! 😄 More coming soon! 😉
Have you seen Cinema Therapy?
@@D3SC0N3CT3D I have, but I don't love their stuff. Too much psych, not enough film study. Also doesn't seem as academic.
Thank you for bringing up "bad fit" therapy sessions. I was annoyed by how Good Will Hunting portrayed these therapists as grumpy and rude when Will was being disrespectful. I know an example of when someone visited a therapist and they weren't compatible. Now, the therapist was friendly and kind, but their nature was too different.
Another example of how in a show that’s centralized around therapy it still doesn’t do a perfect job of portraying therapists 💁🏼♂️ that’s a good point to bring up how Will was really a bit of a jerk and these are people doing their best to help. Great insight 🙏🏻
They were actually white supremacist ego personas detached from humanity. That is what the movie was portraying.
@@HalfJapMarine damn right
Good will hunting never claimed the guy was a good therapist
Bad fit is sometimes an excuse for abusive behaviour from the therapist. You don't get to ruin someone's psyche and then say "oh, it was just a "bad fit". I have never had a therapist, no matter how grossly incompetent, no matter how ignorant, that admitted they were in over their heads.
It just feels like you don't understand Lucifer. The show is trying to show a therapist being caught off-guard and adapting to treating non-humans, because all the info they get from Lucifer sounds like insanity until she finds out he's actually the devil. She's blunt because the immortals ironically have no patience for complexity.
"Why are there so many more shows about police officers, firefighters, and doctors, then there are about therapists?" The work of those professions are much more viseually interesting then the work therapists do. An honest therepist show would have tons of extremely interesting conversation and conflicts, but unless you create some twist ("the therapist is a ghost and visiting clients in their dreams!"), there wouldn't be much for set designers and costumers to do. Movies and TV are a visual medium, you can't get around that.
That’s a very good point 💁🏼♂️
It has to be said that this is precisely because the shows misrepresent what normal life for these professions is like. Police spend a lot of time on paperwork, and doctors tend to have little individual input in how their patients are treated, on top of having multiple patients to care for. This is why you have this genre of Grey's Anatomy-likes where they have to pretend everything is life-and-death, and a lot of shoehorned sex and romance.
i would honestly watch a show that has an inception therapist
Nah
Hollywood is obcessed with profteering from special effect
There's a good podcast about a therapist for superheros called The Bright Sessions where the first season is basically just that. (Then there is a twist and more plot develops lol)
I had a therapist like Arthur's. She just didn't listen, and I could tell she was just going through checkboxes. Took me through CBT despite my autism and me telling her that. Filling out the CBT questionnaires was incredibly stressful, and I ended up leaving therapy feeling worse, not better. Worst part was that it took 3 years to even get therapy. The NHS mental health services f*cking suck. I'm on two different medications for my conditions, and in a much better place now, but still have issues with supply of one of my medications, and had to go without for 3 weeks. On a more positive note, I got given a relationship councillor early on by accident (Which... How does that even happen), but she was trained in therapy, and did end up actually helping me a bit. She listened and cared. She was also dumbfounded how I ended up being put to her. Wish there was more like her.
CBT? Was she a Domme, not a therapist?
@@SchulzEricT Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, not C and BT lol
Yeah, NHS therapy is almost always CBT or nothing. I was fortunate enough to access a psychoanalytic therapist through my work. I wont say it was easy, because it very much was not, nor will I say it would work for you, because it might not. But for me, I needed someone to help me look at myself properly and they did that.
If you are working for a reasonably large company check your benefits package to see if they offer some medical services, they might even be able to help you with the medication access issues. You can also potentially access mental health support through occupational health, which might be useful. It might involve disclosing more than you want to to your employeer but it is a route.
There definitely isn't a one size fits all therapy, but I have heard of autistic people benefiting from CBT for emotion regulation (e.g., helping with black and white thinking, addressing beliefs that contribute to burnout through perfectionism and masking), although it's also not for everyone and it's still important for the therapist to work with your goals and help you find a better fit if it's not working for you. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
@tobyharris4777 they could be the same don't judge 😂
1 second in *therapist chokes client* “i wouldn’t do that”
I'm fucking cackling. I've never seen Good Will Hunting but my mom wants me to because she says I'm like Will. I find that clip fascinating because people have threatened to choke me out too
@@sushigooo8061 watch, its a good movie
I'd love for them revisit the therapist in Rick and Morty. The next conversation she shows up in is LEGENDARY.
Mr. Robot has a favourite therapist of mine. Not because of accuracy of her profession but the dangers. Her client constantly lies to her and whether or not it's good he ignores her advice, eventully he begins to spiral. He also gets overattached to her and starts stalking her boyfriend and eventually blackmails him. Even through all that, and despite knowing all that, Krista still tries to help Elliot. She becomes important to Elliot and the narrative, not as a tool that represents change and progress for the characters but as a person who is important to Elliot.
Oh yes! I would love to hear the brother's thoughts on Mr. Robot.
I came to comment Mr. Robot, but as you already mentioned, I can just comment it out for them to see 😂
The fatal flaw in all movie therapists is that they don’t respect patient confidentiality.
I mean who lets their therapy sessions be recorded and sold by Hollywood for us all to watch?
It is perhaps the biggest unchecked ethical violation in the field of health care today 😔😂
I also believe that, in the case of highly intelligent people, they also tend to believe that they already understand themselves. That fallacy that because they’re so smart, there’s nothing anyone else can teach them because they already know everything. Especially when it comes to themselves because who could possibly know them better than themselves.
Great point. The parallel example on the other end of the spectrum would be those of us who are highly engaged with our emotions believing that everything we feel is true. In both cases the error means we cut ourselves off from new important pieces of information.
@@FrameOfMindBros so absolutely true. I didn’t even think about it like that but yeah, that makes so much sense
an unwillingness to self-correct is as intelligent as a broken clock tho
@@nyankers Yeah and so is smoking, narcotics, and alcoholism and yet intelligent people tend to over-indulge in those vices.
one tiny thing. Robin Williams is actually a teacher who teaches therapy, not a _real_ therapist. plus, he does an unconventional and exceptional method because in the movie its highlighted that this is an exceptional case for an extraordinary person.
well actually robin williams isn't therapist, he's psychiatrist.
(I haven't finished the video yet, sorry if you already touched on this!!) Watching The West Wing made me realize a lot of tv/movie therapists aren't very good because they're specifically trying to play into this fantasy of therapy not involving any emotions. I don't know if you've seen The West Wing, but the therapist in that gets people to confront problems by basically yelling at them until they have realizations - there's no caring, nobody cries, nobody's comforted: it's macho man therapy where you get to brute-force your character arc, and the only emotion you have to feel during it is anger and aggression. It's kind of interesting.
Fascinating, haven't seen the West Wing but that sounds like one we need to watch if a part 2 of therapists in media happens 🤔
These guys look like the younger, hotter replacements that corporate found after firing Cinema Therapy.
You guys have a very similar kind cadence that's fun to watch.
Haha I love it! Thank you, a positive comparison is refreshing 😊🫡
I thought this too. It's like they thought, "we need to appeal to the younger coffee and chill crowd" and poof.
Sorry, I just found these guys and thought it was a different version of Cinema Therapy. Is that one still on? I didn't watch it all the time but it was interesting when I did.
This really needs a second part! There are so many interesting examples still left on the table: Dr. Melfi from the Sopranos, Christa from Mr. Robot and Dr. Paul Western from HBO's therapy series In Treatment are the first that came to my mind.
Absolutely! Sounds like a part two is in order 😉
Second on Mr. Robot. I think it's one of the more fascinating takes, and also the fact that she's a recurring character throughout the whole series who becomes a pivotal character in one of the shows biggest twists (without spoiling anything). I would honestly love to hear these guys' take on the entire show in general. As a film/tv nerd who also goes to therapy, I think it's one of the most interesting shows where mental health is one of the main themes of the show.
I agree with you, would definitly like to see their reaction on therapy seasons from the show How to get away with murder.
Yeah, my first thought of therapists in pop culture it was The Sopranos. I'd like to hear what you think of the Harrison Ford show on AppleTV, Shrinking. I'm not in love with the title...
Also Dr. Sharon from Ted Lasso would be an interesting one to look at
As a therapist, I agree that the best depiction of a therapist (and one I modeled myself off of) was Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting (just with less choking). The thing that makes him such a fantastic example is he expressed unconditional positive regard perfectly, and he also isn't perfect himself. He is a flawed man (as therapists are, we are flawed), but he genuinely expresses the concepts of Rogers and Moustakas to the letter, and I even appreciate that they made him vulnerable enough to risk sacrificing his license when his own trauma and grief from his deceased wife comes in and he lashes out. Rarely have I met a therapist colleague who doesn't look at Good Will Hunting as their favorite representation.
Great way to put it. I think part of why I love the depiction is that rogerian relationship that they forge, and the demonstration of how true person-to-person contact is so valuable in facilitating healing ❤️
Im not a native speaker of english but I love how you guys talk; the way you use idioms, the gestures and even the rithm/tone do really help me understand better
You and the Cinema Therapy guys should do a video together
I think it'd be really fun if we could ever make that happen at some point in the future! 😁👍
It's a good point about RnM that doing that first session is awfully, uuh, frontloaded; but I think one of the reasons it works despite that is 'cuz she didn't actually "break him down" or whatever, like the point stands she tried to go deep fast and this isn't a reflection of irl, but relative to Rick's mental state all she really did was tell him "you made a dumb choice today and you know it", like none of this is really *foundational* to Rick it's just the core of _today's_ expressions, what would have been "too far" [for him] would be trying to talk about Diane already or in general trying to assert more about him broadly and axiomatically or w/e; he showed up as a pickle, she pointed out how that was an expression of his troubled values and how that has spread into his family life. She didn't go ham expressing in precise detail how he is at his core "this that and the other" and talk briskly about all his traumas and whatnot; she just said you're now metaphorically AND literally pickling under the weight of your choices. Like, she didn't "break him down" she "took him down a peg"; and she only did even that by simply showing up on his level [which nobody was supposed to do] and talking to him frankly. Yes what is said here would be crazy first session, but relative to Rick's peripheral and "in actively dissonant denial" awareness of himself and how topical the things in this episode are to his deeper problems, I think we as the audience are to assume 1. This is far from the depths of Rick's, well, with retrospect despair, and 2. Rick does have the self awareness to hear this talk as ringing true as opposed to any initial anger confusion etc. Like, he knows he's doing this. She didn't actually "attack him at his core", she just said "I see you dawg" and he had to begrudgingly take his mask off. He knew it was a mask, this isn't actually all that deep for Rick yet. She's not exposing him to himself for the first time; she's not even exposing him to his family for the first time, really; she just said I see you. Again, irl this is frontloaded af and would prolly require at least a little presumption at best; but in the show it's not actually "feeling like too much" for Rick; She didn't break HIM down, she broke down this dumb game he tried to play with his family, something Rick already knew was teetering given Beth's reaction at the start
This is less analogous to "somebody walks in and day one you confront them with too much", and more "somebody walked in mad at you for being their therapist without even meeting you and day one you say _hey I think this would be good for you, actually_" or something along those lines. How frontloaded it was I think has a fair amount to do with how scifi high concept the story beat is. Calling out in that much detail a family dynamic in front of said family might well be a bad practice for first sessions; but if grandpa is literally pickling himself and donning pest carcasses to avoid working on his family life, I think it scans for somebody as actively [ie with awareness] in denial as Rick to be told "hey, uuh, this is a shallow bag of tricks, bro". Yes she suggested he has a problem with drab mundanities rather quickly; he licked a cockroach brain and almost d!ed from dehydration, and ostensibly regretted none of it, to avoid therapy, I think at that point you kind of HAVE to say SOMETHING impactful before you let them leave xD
I love how, in the beginning Rick thinks therapy is just dumb and just overall inadequate. But as the therapist starts to show that she is indeed actually very smart and knows what she’s doing, Rick starts to see her on a new level that he didn’t expect and, in his own Rick Sanchez style, actually starts to respect her.
I’m so glad the algorithm has brought me to your guy’s channel and I hope more people are able to see your videos cause having your two different perspective come together adds so much more nuance and brings new ideas that you don’t see in most film discussion channels
Thank you so much! 😊
Helga's therapist from Hey Arnold S4 EP18 was pretty great.
Ooh, another great suggestion!
I think maybe the Joker scene feels better because it makes you connect the dots. In the Lucifer one, their words were just there to pass exposition between eachother. It's said outright. But in the Joker, you're thinking about things behind the words, like the state of Gotham and how him losing the therapy is gonna affect him because you know he's gonna become the joker.
The Lucifer one is basically saying what we already know.
The Joker one is setting things up and making you think about the state of the characters and the world. It gives you that "oh no" feeling.
The Sopranos has to be the most notable situation of therapy on film
Exactly
I was shocked they didn’t even touch on it. More notable than good will hunting imo
@@100frogbucket there’s hours of scenes of therapy in that show, discussions between therapists, different types of therapists… it’s odd to leave it out.
@@josephfoulger9628Sounds more like there's plenty of content for it to get its own video
Doing an actual critical analysis of the Pickle Rick episode instead of just meming about it is so refreshing to see.
Glad you appreciate it 😄🙏
UA-cam, PROMOTE QUALITY CONTENT LIKE THIS AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!!
😄 We're so glad you feel this way! 🙏 So grateful the algorithm brought us together!
Check out Cinema Therapy. They have a similar vibe
@@gdbutcherable sounds cool, will do!
About 5 minutes in. I've gone to therapy, used to often, and had different therapists. Some work, some don't, some were excellent and supported after retirement, some were so horrid it felt like I was in a movie. The representation comes from some where, yes its extreme, but therapists ARE people. They are flawed, and some can be so bad at their job, these representations can just be extreme retellings of personal anecdotes. My first ever experience in therapy was a woman asking me what's going on in my life. She listened intently, didn't write anything, and just asked me questions guiding me so I could figure out my problems on my own. She was also incessant about finding me outside of her workplace and making sure I couldn't skip out on a session after I skipped one due to work. It felt suffocating and I had to switch. if I made a movie about a therapist, I would highlight the "stalking" because that's what it felt like, even though it likely wasn't.
I think bad representation is when a story with a bad therapist is telling you that it's a good one. Meaningfully different from an intentional, good portrayal of a bad therapist.
It was. If she stalked you she stalked you
Came for the title, stayed for the content.
10/10 mate, full marks :)
No body has ever succinctly put what I have felt and observed about this topic as well as you guys have in this video. Thank you.
Wow, thank you so much! 🙏
Im not sure how good the representation of the therapist in the sopranos was but i loved how they portrayed her and how she had a therapist of her own
53:23 You just proved my point about the failure to win mental health malpractice lawsuits resulting in most people not being aware of the malpractice that is happening.
I love this so much! I am a therapist and a film enthusiast and I love the fact that this podcast exists at the intersection of the stories we tell and the stories we tell ourselves. If y'all ever need a guest spot, I have no online presence of value, but I love a good banter! 😅 So many insights from this episode that resonated with me around the functionality of media portrayals of therapists/therapy, I loved pondering how the therapist serves the audience, the character(s) and the plot and all the other technical film making pieces that also serve those same functions in driving the story the film is telling. I think what really hit home was the piece about the essence of therapy/therapists highlighted in GWH and how true therapy is about building relationships, and helping clients extract their own authenticity out of the space that is held for them in sessions in order to redirect their lives in a direction that is aligned with their true selves. I love that film can also offer that to audience members through the emotional and archetypal representations of characters which allow audiences to project their own authentic experiences onto these stories and characters in ways that are meaningful and sometimes even change how we live our lives by watching the characters navigate the landscape of their experiences. This intersection of film and psychology is a crop ripe for harvest and I'm excited to see what is next!
As someone who was misdiagnosed by the VA for 30 years and was the victim of 948 INDIVIDUAL medical errors, here's what I want to see:
A REALISTIC PORTRAYAL OF MENTAL HEALTH CARE THAT I EXPERIENCED:
- Availability Bias
- Framing Effect
- Anchoring Bias
- Ascertainment Bias
- Base Rate Neglect
- Commission Bias
- Confirmation Bias
- Diagnosis Momentum
- Ego Bias
- Familiarity Bias
- Fundamental Attribution Error
- Gambler's Fallacy
- Group Thinking
- Hindsight Bias
- Omission Bias
- Order Effect
- Overconfidence Bias (which is one reason I DREAD getting an older clinician.)
- Playing the Odds
- Posterior Probability Error
- Premature Closure
- Psych-out Error
- Representativeness Restraint
- Search Satisfying
- Self Serving Bias
- Sutton's Slip
- Semmelweis Reflex (which is another reason I DREAD getting an older clinician.)
- Triage Cueing
- Unpacking Principle
- Vertical Line Failure
- Zebra Retreat
Here's some of my therapy favorites:
- REFUSING to screen for bipolar because the false positive rate is "unacceptably high". (The "VA/DoD Clinical Practice Guidelines for Management of Bipolar Disorder" LITERALLY say this. Then it uses the legalese of "These guidelines are not the official policy of the VA or DoD" to weasel out of liability for failing to do screenings. IMO, in the absence of policy, the guidelines become de facto policy).
This is just one of many examples where administrators are making decisions when they don't understand what is happening in the clinical setting. And of course, (especially at the VA) the priority for clinicians is MAINTAINING ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARDS. This gets rationalized as "I can't help anyone if I'm fired," or "who's going to hire me after I get fired at the VA, which has abysmally low standards", or "how am I going to pay my bills if I get fired," or "well, we do the best we can."
On a side note, a better test for bipolar is one simple question: "Do stop lights sometimes appear blindingly bright, and at other times extremely dull?" Even if that question only catches a small percentage of bipolar patients, it would likely have near-zero false positive rate, and having a small chance to catch bipolar is FAR better than a 100% chance of NEVER catching it because you refuse to do screenings.
- Relying on memory to write clinical notes leading to massive amounts of incorrect information being recorded , or worse, trying to multitask while taking a patient's history.
Which gets even more absurd when a patient asks to record private 1-on-1 clinic and therapy sessions, only to be told they can't because the patient might alter the recordings and file a malpractice lawsuit.
And this gets even MORE absurd when you realize that the VA actually ADVERTISES that the VA is a great place to work because they protect clinicians from malpractice lawsuits.
This isn't unique to the VA. After decades of medical errors, I finally got the VA to pay for outside care. But every therapist I checked out refused to allow recordings.
You would think that "oh, this patient is suffering from malpractice-related PTSD. Perhaps we should make accommodations so that we can treat him." is something that would be more important than "cover your ass." I even told them I'd get 2 voice recorders for each session, and they could keep one. But no.
My advice is to learn shorthand if you need mental health medical care.
- Getting in a hurry and/or speaking English as a second language leading to mistaken belief that the unnumbered question in the PC-PTSD-5 ("Have you EVER experienced a traumatic event") is only asking about the last 30 days.
- Misdiagnosing PTSD as a Personality Disorder simply because it was more convenient for the military and the VA. Personality Disorders ARE NOT considered service-connected illnesses, and therefore receive no compensation or access to health care (at least in the 1990's)
If you want to see why that happens, go to Google Scholar and do a search for "TO SAUDI AND BACK: A PRELIMINARY REPORT OF PSYCHIATRIC CASUALTIES EVACUATED FROM OPERATION DESERT SHIELD" (pages 9-16). Pay close attention to the statistics for "Adjustment Disorder" and "Personality Disorder" on page 13.
Also of note are the numerous class action lawsuits that were WON against the VA for INTENTIONALLY using Personality and Adjustment disorder to avoid upgrading discharges for vets with compensable disorders.
- Voluntarily checking into a psychiatric facility due to suicidal ideation while I'm trying to prepare my FTCA malpractice application against the VA. I tried showing the staff a printout of where they could find EACH AND EVERY medical error in my records. They refused to look at it, and took my "obviously delusional" claims as evidence of psychosis.
When I decided to check out so that I could file my FTCA claim before the deadline, they violated Title 25 of the Wyoming statutes. During the court hearing where they tried to hold me an additional 10 days, they ADMITTED that they had no evidence I was a danger to myself or others. They also ADMITTED that they had no evidence that I was psychotic, but wanted an additional 10 days to find evidence of psychosis.
I've had a shit experience with the entire field of mental health care.
However, I wouldn't be alive without Lamotrigine and cognitive behavior therapy.
Medicine works. Therapy works. The problem is the gargantuan pile of medical errors you have to climb over to get the right medicine and therapy.
Glad your traveling better now!
Anyone who denied you have mania is a dope.
You have autism as many people that enlist do
Subscribed so fast. I've watched other "filmmaker/therapist" duos and despite loving the concept, so far have not liked the duos themselves. This is my first video of yours, but you guys seem great! Some amazing, real insights, some of which from pickle Rick of all things.
Thank you so much! Welcome aboard 😁❤️
Would love it if you guys did a video on "scavengers reign." The visuals in that tv series were stunning and watching how the alien planet influenced the three main storylines was amazing. I feel like the show would be right down your ally to unpack.
Ooh! I have not heard of this show yet but it sounds like we need to check it out 😁 thanks for the recommendation 🙌🏻
Loved the episode and found it really eye opening. A little disappointed you guys didn't look at any therapy scenes from the Sopranos. Maybe a revisit is in order
Thanks so much! Haha yeah we're getting the sense that if we don't include Dr. Melfi in a future part 2 there's going to be a riot 😅😂 so she's pretty much a lock for that video
I'd just like to say, I didn't realise this was a new channel; nor that most of the videos don't have too many views, but I will tell you with 100% certainty that I think this channel will definitely get popular soon if you guys keep at it.
I'm not going to say, "I really hope this channel gets more views/subs" because I honestly don't think I need to "hope".
Thanks @Sir-Reborn! That's incredibly kind of you to say! 🙏 Hopefully it won't take us too long to grow but we've been super happy with how much support and kindness people like yourself have given! It really means a lot. Can't wait to see you in the next episode! 😉
I think that in Will Hunting, the few first therapist are portrayed as highly successfull highly intelligent psychs and they are successfull because of that, but they are used to ''lower intelligence'' clients and when will comes in he's more intelligent then them and throws them off because he sees them as arrogant people even though he's arrogant himself. That's why that the ''less intelligent'' yet HIGHLY HUMAN Sean is the opposite to his strenght like Rick and tthe familly therapist.
Yes smart people see right through stuff and are not impressed or awed by plumage. It's why he loves his friends because they are good honest people that though deeply flawed are good people because they are themselves and care. Not the historian in the bar that will convince everyone how smart he is and probably write a book doing nothing of any real use in life unlike his friends despite it being demolition work or automotive work. Even Will acknowledged that doing math alone isn't in itself purposeful if it's just some crooked Corporate job damaging people.
first vid i saw from yall. the intellectual conversation that took place was amazing and im glad people still care for those types of conversations. Seems like its hard for people to take things seriously. thank you for the breath of fresh air.
Thank you so much! These are definitely the kind of conversations we care about and want to bring to more people 😁 👍
17:30 I feel I should point out, that while a valid point, she specifically only did this with Rick because she recognized this is what he would respond to, brutal honest truth. With the rest of the family she was very gentle and affirming with their akward and stilted "i feel/want" statements but as soon as she got a feel for Rick's personality she adapted her approach
i know sopranos is a tv show, but i feel like it had an incredibly realistic and humanizing approach in depicting therapy and therapists.
Seems like there's a lot of people who agree with you 😁 Look out for our Part 2 😉
Bit late to the party, but I wanted to mention how much I appreciate your efforts with this channel! I have a passion for storytelling and recently completed my practicum for psychotherapy, so in a lot of ways, it feels like this channel was made for me. Much love and keep up the amazing work!
Wow! Thanks @Dill5005 🙏 That's super kind of you to say and we couldn't be more excited that you found us! Congrats on completing your practicum! That's huge! We can't wait to bring you more stuff soon! See you in the next one! 😉
@@FrameOfMindBros Thanks so much! Can't wait to see what you have in store for us, best of luck!
You guys totally missed out on Dr. Melfi from the Sopranos?! She is for sure one of the most iconic therapists in all of television history.
Yes. I loved her! Please include more on her
The culmination of Melfi's arc is understanding Tony is so narcissistic that he's using therapy as training for how to abuse people in his life and once they break their personal and professional contact the show is ready to end.
She wasn't a perfect therapist but she also wasn't a perfect person so it made sense! I have a psych degree but and not a therapist (yet) but she felt realistic to me.
Therapy exists in media as a shortcut to exposition without a narrator, title cards, or "the Kid"/audience surrogate who needs everything explained to them.
So, asking about childhood is actually a good way without having a flashback towards the past: childhood, school, training, trauma, family, job, relationships, etc.
Absolutely, what's the context that can make exposition a little less exposition-y? Therapy 👍
the best channel yt recommended me in a long time great video
Wow thank you so much!! 🙏❤️
This feels like a more conversational Cinema Therapy. I like it!
Really enjoyed the nuance takes on the interpretations of therapy in film by you guys. I feel like you guys bring so much onto the table when dissecting concepts that is in film/television. I think a concept that I would like to see explored is tragedy. A lot of stories of old seems to revolve around tragedy. From a filmmaking and therapy perspective, why do you think the tragedy genre is so captivating to this day?
Thanks so much @firecracker1012! 🙏 That's really kind of you and we super appreciate it! Also yeah, GREAT suggestion for exploring tragedy in films, so much we could talk about in an episode about that 😄😭
I’ve been hoping for a video like this forever. I hate the way therapists are portrayed as an inept shoulder to cry on.
Glad you found this one!
I'd love to see your takes on Ted Lasso! Besides it being brilliant and hilarious, a therapist gets introduced in season 2 and I thought she was a great character and representation of a good therapist.
Ah Ted Lasso would be a great series to look at!
I thought you guys were gone. Turns out youtube was doing that thing where they randomly stop showing certain creators youtube videos in my feed (even though I'm subscribed). Now I have 3 videos to catch up on!
Glad at least one video snuck through the algorithm to find you! 😁
This was fantastic, the first video I've caught from this channel. Definitely earned a subscription!
Wow! Thanks so much that really means a lot! 😄🙏 Welcome aboard!
The episode "Analyze Piss" is one of the best episodes in all of Rick and Morty in general but features more very good interactions with the therapist and actually following advice
This channel is insane,you two are excellent
Thank you so much! 🙏😁
This video was my introduction to your channel, and it’s pretty great! The examination of therapy in film really shines a new light on both. Subscribed.
Congrats that the algorithm shined on you guys
Very interesting talking points from a very different perspective than most essay channels
Wish you good luck in the future
Thank you! 🙏 that's exactly what we're trying to do 😁
A very funny example would be Fleabag
Ooh, we will have to check this out 😄
I think that, in part, therapists NEED to be portrayed wrongly in some media. Because if I’m in therapy, and I talk about - essentially - the main conflict of my story, we very well might therapy it away to a point where it’s not as conflicting or ‘juicy’ as it initially seemed. Like if I’m having a new presenting issue when I’m going to therapy, that’s all I’m talking about that session.
High quality video guys. Had me hooked the whole way.
Thank you so much! 🙏❤️
I admit to an attraction for these therapist/filmmaker dialogues. Cinema Therapy is another channel that does this. My first degree was in media production, which I still enjoy as a hobby but ended up disliking as an industry. My second field was counseling and therapy, which I've been making a living in for about 25 years. The title of the next video should be "The Fatal Flaw in All Movie Filmmakers", as least as an appeal to my own sense of symmetry.
I feel like she disasembled Rick's psyche in the first session because she could tell neither of the adults were coming back. This was her only chance to get them to think. The card was more for the kids than anything else
Also Rick would never respect her if she didn't go direct and hard.
video was amazing actually makes me have some fun questions for my therapist of over a year and a half but im surprised the sopranos went unmentioned at all
I would have been super interested to see your takes on the therapy episode in Dexter, because that's a rare example where they're actually trying to portray a bad therapist, who's intentionally trying to harm his patients via therapy.
There are so many great insights in this video! I especially love the "Stereotypes are cognitively efficient" discussion. As a story writer myself, it really helps me think about stereotypes and tropes in a new way.
Thank you so much! We're all about finding ways to see things from a new point of view 😁👍
I definitely agree that the therapist engaging with Rick the way she did works FOR RICK. Not in general, but someone like Rick would actually respond well to something like that because Rick is someone who would not respond well to condescension or coddling (as he would see it). Rick has to respect someone to listen to them, and to do that they have to operate at his level in his style. Rick WILL NOT meaningfully engage with someone who does not challenge him in some way.
In a sense, she read the adventure idea and showed (Not said, SHOWED) Rick that therapy would be a challenge or adventure for him.
The simple answer is that it's not cinematic to have people work through their problems in a healthy and constructive way.
Or at the very least it's incredibly challenging...
As a soon-to-be therapist, I'd really be interested in knowing what kind of therapist Curtis is. CBT? Psychodynamic? Systemic? I know, this might not be of interest to most people, but it would really help me putting his opinions further into perspective.
Love the question! I primarily practice from an Emotion-Focused Therapy lens and using those techniques and case conceptualizations, although I pull from a number of other approaches as well when appropriate (CBT, EMDR, etc).
I know when I was in school there was a lot of focus on selecting a theoretical orientation to practice from, but looking back now I think a big reason for that was more to reduce students attempts to try to learn everything (because there are SO many styles and techniques out there) and instead just focus on building a core practice based on one thing you can grasp, then spending the rest of your career, adding and adjusting as you need to based on what feels like a better fit.
And honestly, maybe more important than anything, I've also learned that theory and technique tend to take a real backseat in the healing process to the simplicity of how you show up for your clients in the relationship with them every session; ideally with the compassion and non-judgment that facilitates their belief that they can change 😁❤️👍
@@FrameOfMindBros Hey, thanks for the answer! I am really happy to hear that you are this open minded. Truth be told, the university I studied at in germany was very CBT-centric - something that never really did sit well with me. There have been professors, who didn't even hide that they considered CBT superior to other forms of psychotherapy.
And while I consider myself rather on the psychodynamic side of the equation (thanks to an incredibly good professor, who was kind of the last bastion for this. Her seminar revolved around a modernized view of Freuds early theories in the context of early child development), I actually do like aspects of systemic therapy, hypnotherapy and even CBT. And from what I have heard in actual practice, reality and university are two very different things. One of my teacher therapists (psychodynamic) once said: Once you learn how to work with transference and countertransference, you already have a big chunk of your job covered. Building a relationship is the core pillar of therapy.
And that really stuck with me. Hence my interested, if you are a dry cognitive-behavioral therapist that I grew to dislike in university, or more open minded :)
Again, thanks for your answer. Also, I really liked the insights an exchanges in this video. From my experience, way too few therapists and psychologists actually take a real interest in entertainment and storytelling.
Oh my god. The confusion between role and identity is SO common and it is especially prevalent in people with either a weakened sense of self, a heightened expectation of roles, or both.
Thanks for this amazing video. I love how thorough you both are from both writing and therapy point of view. I think a good show that needs the same kind of analysis is "Shrinking". You should really look into it.
Oooh interesting haven't heard of it before, we should check it out! 🤔
I hope there is a follow-up to this someday, as I'd love to see your reaction to Carmela's therapist from The Sopranos.
He has exactly one scene and it's easily one of the highlights of the entire show
I got curious about Dr Melfi, from Sopranos. I feel like she was detatched a bit from the narrative at times, but she was the first therapist that came to my mind from the beginning of the conversation.
I have to be 100% honest, I never watched the Sopranos 😅 but this is a great excuse to watch it now. Judging by the number of people who share your opinion I think she's obligated to appear in our Part 2 once I've watched enough of the series
Fellow therapist here...please do shrinked next! Very interested in hearing your thoughts around this representation.
We've seen a couple other people wanted that as well 😄 will definitely check it out 🫡
Similar format to the cinema therapy channel and I’m here for it
I think this was a verrry great breakdown on therapists in media. I would love to see another part and some recommendations i would love to see is "The Sopranos" as well as the show "Hannibal". overall GREAT content.
HOW DOES THIS CHANNEL HAVE LESS THAN 5K SUBS THIS IS SUCH GOOD QUALITY CONTENT
Stoked you think so 🙏🏻 honestly basically the best comment we could have gotten 😁 Thank you! 🙏🏻
I think the core of the issue is that, the typical role of the TV therapist is to identify a character flaw or problem and also fail to solve it, so the main character can go through their arc and solve their problem in their own way. There is always some tension that makes the main character reject the counsel of the therapist, since it would be a bit boring or anticlimactic seeing someone actually work out their problems while sitting down and talking for an hour.
I wish you'd do another video with more shows like Falcon & the Winter Soldier VA therapist or the therapist in The Patient or in DR House... anyway great video really interesting!
I think it's clear that people want a "Therapist Part 2" video...so you can probably expect one 😉 Your suggestions have been noted, filed, and are definitely influencing our next steps! We appreciate your input and can’t wait to share what’s coming next. Stay tuned! 😊
4:30 Cause filmmakers don't go to therapy, cause if they did they probably wouldn't be making films
Haha 😂 you know what, I think theres actually a lot of truth to your statement. Hadn’t considered that before
One takeaway I mostly have from making movies/shows or other media, is that it comes with *their* understanding of the world. Meaning that a some of niches aren’t shown great at all. Therapy is sometimes the most complex thing that exists, you kinda have to understand those gray areas. And some work is intellectually really hard, no wonder why we say ‘it’s not rocket science’, because rocket science seems like a difficult expertise.
But sometimes directors don’t know the world at all, and I actually don’t *really* expect them to because it may be more difficult than some expertises at all. But if a movie is bad because of that or people find it bad; it is what is is
I’m very surprised to hear that people are afraid to having their psyche deconstructed when they go to therapy. I feel like that is the whole reason I would go, especially with how expensive it is. I tried therapy and was really disappointed that I didn’t really get anything from my therapist and it was just me talking about my problems to someone. I would really love a therapist like Ada Wong, to tear me down so I can be built back up into something better
Rick always wants challenges, so the therapist coming back at him is the only reason he has been able to grow and continue to talk with her, even on airforce wong
This was an interesting video. I'll add some more therapist depictions that have stuck with me over the years, in case there's a part two.
The Netflix series Never Have I Ever was an interesting one. Felt like the therapist was her own person whose life didn't fully revolve around Devi as a client.
Big Little Lies; because of how the advice Celeste received changed--in a very important way--once the therapist knew more about her conditions.
The Matrix Resurrections; I've read multiple interpretations regarding casting Neil Patrick Harris, a gay actor, as the therapist, and how that can be seen as representative of other LGBT people invalidating trans experiences. Given the way his character made Neo doubt his own identity. Don't know how much that speaks for therapy overall, but it was interesting to me.
Edited to fix typos
Noted for future use 📝😁 Part 2 is in the works 😉
Robin’s character in GWH is a good therapist for Will because he himself was abused as a child and has much unresolved rage- as Will would not accept or humor traditional therapy, it is Robin’s very inappropriate and absolutely absurd physical attack on Will that allows him to see the flawed human beneath the therapist that he can accept help from. But it is the scene in the film that always bugged me, too.
I sincerely hope that evil is included in this list because man that show was amazing and kurt deserves some love.
Joker's story reminds me a lot of my own.. i was in therapy for two years, and then my therapist quit.. she put me on the wait list for a new one, but it took a long time to even get a response. During that time i got so bad off mentally that i had to call emergency services for help.. and because i did that, they had "proof" that therapy wasn't helping me, and so they never gave me a new therapist... all they tey here before giving up is CBT by the way.. so if that type of therapy isn't a fit for ya, you're sh*t outa luck
Went through all your stuff except the ones I don't want spoilers on and was wondering when you guys will upload more.
We’re starting to upload every 2 weeks 😁 2x per month is the goal
Very insightful. Thank you!
Thanks for watching! ❤️
There are times where it can be super on the nose in a bad way but in my experience I love it when it’s done well. Like for me I had a therapist tell me something that I kinda already knew, but her sudden bluntness (after being frustratingly not so the rest of the time) was kind of refreshing. Straight up told me no to expect my mom to change her behavior after years of being abusive. And even tho k already knew that and was already planning on going minimum cal tact with my mom but her saying it the way she did told me she gets it.
Great material, thank you guys, hope to see you again soon
Stoked you liked it 😁 you’ll see us again very soon 😉
You should dive into the soprano’s therapist too!
Looks like there's a lot of people who agree with you 😁 She'll definitely be in our Part 2 😉