I like to think that the stars aren't flat tears, but rather 3D tears, they just ripped through space right where they stood, leaving big, three dimensional holes.
If a 3D being made a hole in a 2D world, it would look like a circle. If a 4D being made a hold in a 3D world, it would look like a sphere. I like this idea.
They could be white holes; white holes are part of a hypothesis for how black holes in our world works, which is too complicated to explain, but the relevant thing is that this model supposes that everything black holes suck in gets spewed out in another universe (where the arrow of time is supposed to be reversed but that's not relevant here. This sounds very similar to the description we are given from lore and would explain why energy is coming out of them, another important part of this model is that travel across a white/black hole is impossible because if would take an infinite ammount of time. This also lines up with what we know, that travel to this parallel dimension is very difficult and the general idea of infinities.
@@domd The interesting thing about that idea is that it isn't entirely untrue about our world either. Our senses evolved for certain circumstances and that limits our perceptions. The best example would be black holes, you've probably seen renderings of them, and they are accurate, but what you see there is not very reflective of their actual structure. Black holes are in a sense infinitely large in that they can contain an infinite amount of mass energy, they appear spherical simply because of the event horizon, in reality they might not actually have a shape since they are infinitely dense. There's a lot more examples of this but basically “limited by mortal minds” sounds an awful lot like our reality where our perceptions are limited and shaped by the fact that we are animals that evolved in a certain environment. It also might be what you'd say if you were suddenly tasked with trying to explain the world to a medieval peasant.
@@CrescentCrusader99kinda, there is a literal physical barrier that the holes go through to enter oblivion and go through the next barrier into aetherius
@@SabiJD tbh TES:O dips into (and expands upon) Kirkbridean stuff all the time with mixed success. Clockwork City was an absolute marvel to behold and to put Tribunal(the DLC) to shame, whereas Summerset that came directly after it suddenly went the route of "guys we need to assemble zero-stones to achieve chims and amaranths to beat the bad Daedra!" which made me physically wince (especially because i was so hyped up by the previous, utmostly tastefully done, chapter of the trilogy). The quality of writing is a wild sine wave in ESO. then again, it isn't even done by BGS...At least ZOS get it right sometimes, as opposed to Todd who never does anymore.
Holy shit dude, where did you find that profile picture? If it came from where I thought it does, you might be one of the coolest fellas I've run across in Elder Scrolls comments
It can be interpreted that these are of course, normal stars and planets, and that without advanced sciences and technologies such as emission spectra they’re forced to rely on incomplete interpretations as we were in the past. Ather for example is a disproven universal medium we once believed conducted light and gravity.
The Lunar Lorkhan is likely incorrect. Fal Droon, the character who wrote that book is meant to be the apex of unreliable narrators in TES, to the point his name is an anagram for “Darn Fool.”
Yeah it's kind of annoying how even though it's well known that written lore in TES is unreliable and should always be approached skeptically because it may be unreliable, not literal, or an outright lie or fiction, certain people will still point to certain written sources (that happen to conveniently support their headcanon) and yell that it's real because it says so and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
@@ankoku37 well not ALL written lore, just certain sources like Fal Droon. It is still annoying that they're listed as reliable when they're anything but
Great video man, I know this was a good bit of research! Somewhat related, you know Douglas Goodall? The designer from Morrowind? He is participating in the modathon under the name AFFA, and he has released an Imperial Mananaut mod over on nexus. So, really good time to be checking out the space aspects!:D
@@ceedott What's up there in space in Elder Scrolls? A STELLARIS observation post, farming science points off the primitives' peculiar uses of psionics and interdimensional portals.
It would be fun if the game could read your storage to see if you have digital skyrim, and after you meet yourself it starts a new skyrim game. For some reason it reminds me of the time you could put the van helsing DVD in a xbox to play the demo.
@@BenisDD Imagine if the Elder Scrolls world was like old Might and Magic all along, and in reality, the Daedra are just extremely advanced aliens. Magic is simply some complex sci-fi concept that we don't understand and thus perceive as magic.
This is a great channel! Just pure lore, no headcanons and no theories talked as if they were true. Also a great deal of respect for stuff outside of the big three games (Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim). I love Kirkbride's contributions, but sometimes the TES community take all of his words as gospel and ignore the other writers for the series. Anyway, keep up the amazing work!
There are a bunch of complicated theories out there and there is of course the whole debate about whether or not Talos is actually a god (I believe he is personally), but when it comes to the fact that he doesn’t noticeably have a planet/moon, Talos is believed to have “mantled” Lorkhan as a Shezzarine (basically a mortal reincarnation of Lorkhan/Shezarr), and thus when he ascended, Nirn/Masser and Secunda would have become his planet/plane of existence. I did think about talking about this in the video, but it’s a bit of a complicated topic and it’s nothing with a definitive answer.
The planets are just the original gods. It's not a 1:1 rule of "god = planet" For example, the Tribunal of Morrowind -- Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil -- were living gods and they didn't have planets either. They were mortals who ascended to divinity. Talos is a similar situation.
You're looking at it wrong. There are not just 8 or 9 Aedra, and neither does every Aedra have a visible or tangible location in Mundus. There are most likely infinite Aedra, all part of Nirn, in the surrounding cosmic system, or even hidden from view like the Third Moon or other unknowns. Nords, Redguards, Cyrodiilic peoples, Bretons, and many other untold human races had their own pantheons before the first era invented the eight divines, and even the pre-iterations of the divines like Shor and Kyne for example were very much real and separate from the modern pantheon. Just like there are infinite Daedra but only 17(?) that take an active interest in Mundus, there are infinite Aedra in Mundus. Some are men and mer souls waiting to be born, others are larger entities. I don't wanna ramble, just, it's bigger than what you see.
@@AeyakS "There are most likely infinite Aedra" Literally never heard of that in the lore though… . Besides, and I don't know if that's what you are referring to, there is an important distinction between gods spirits and original spirits. One becoming a god implies that they are capable of interfering in that reality, just as the gods did when they created it. Also, the big similarities between the myths within each race kind of implies that they aren't as numerous, otherwise you would hear from their influence more often than not. I like the idea of infinite Aedra (Gods), but lore wise, that idea is not very substantiated. Specially considering that, if you look at it from a theological point of view, you can see how each god/prince was designed to be a confinement for concepts such as love, hate, nature, earth, sky, shadow, etc. They already have well described characterizations for each of the Aedra and Deadra, and, like so, you can conclude how having “infinite concepts” wouldn't really fit the lore accurately. The process of mantling reinforces that as well, for you to turn into a proper god (not just godlike, like Vivec for example) you have to act like one. Implying again that those essential aspects and concepts of humanity are what distinguish mere “spirits” or “demigods” from gods.
I recall one of the authors that left after TES2 said that the drawfs into the futrue and that they were very behind tech wise since i guess the time they were popped into was currently having a space war but there's zero chance that's cannon but it always made me wonder about the elder scrolls space
10:57 That type of thing getting addresed could be an interesting thing to add to an elder scrolls game where they're set in a time period with technology, science and medicine as close to ours, but that would be too risky for Bethesda to try. But I still love the idea of magic and tech being used together, things like enchanted pieces of tech sounds like something an industrial scaled company could do in a world of that nature, and magitech items being used for scientific discovery in such a world. This is an interesting concept, hopefully it will be executed flawlessly if it ever happens.
@@blueblaze5160 I've tried some of it while visiting my sister on my brother-in-law's PS4 but not enough to understand the lore or how that's like in the game world.
Love the vid bro personally i thought i knew absolutely everything about the elder scrolls universe but youve opened my mind alot! And that adds more soo much more wonder to game and even makes me wanna play rn soo mad props bro keep up the content💯
I've always wanted an Elder scrolls game where you would sail from planet to planet on atherial current going through space. Meeting each Aedra and Dedra according to each planet and seeing the different being each world would offer and maybe even different towns. Plus, you could go through a castle or dungeon each world to talk/fight the Dedra or Aedra depending on their quests. And before you say you'd never interact with the Aedra that way remember, in Oblivion, you literally become Sheogorath.
Great video, you have some pretty well founded knowledge. Appreciate the way you summed up some of the more nebulous events. Subscribed, hope you get more recognition.
I sometimes learn or am entertained to the point I rewatch videos and this is one of them. The ending 10 seconds was really well written and well delivered ! Nice work
This is a great video! It's a damn shame you only have 3k views. I'm not big on TES Lore(or TES in general), but I really like your to-the-point presentation. I'm subbed.
Thinking about it... The realm of Mundus follows the archaic idea of our own universe, that the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it.
It's all perception. Technically, you can argue wherever you are is the center of the universe. As a astrologist, I'll make some suggestions to you. The entire observable universe has earth at the center. Likely due to earth being the point of view. The observable universe, quantum foam and TV static all look the same in 2d representation. That's not just astrological it's quantum mechanics, radiology and physics. If something seen a light year away, is what that object looked like 1 year ago then the fact that there's objects seen 13 billion light years away would be evidence of the universe being older than 13 billion years. It's suggested in beleif systems that the only real space is earth and everything else was put there by God bc a black sky was super boring.
Great video, I love learning about the lore of many fantasy settings as it kind relates back to our own. The last part you mentioned about how phenomena in the Elder Scrolls universe might be misinterpreted by lack of technology could be a theory same as to our history.
Space in Skyrim is very interesting cuz the kind of shit that ancient humans believed to be the case irl ACTUALLY IS the case in the elder scrolls universe. Like the stars are not burning balls of gas, they're legit fuckin tears in reality that leak out magicka. Shit's wild
@@jimmyjams5038 I love those lore bits that are just outrageous and unrealistic. Unfortunately modern Bethesda doesn't and keeps trying to dumb down their franchises to be as boring and realistic as possible
@@bandawin18 yeah their writers don't really do much with the established lore unfortunately. The writing in general has gotten much worse as each Bethesda game is released.
Skyrim's lore is very cohesive and complete, detailed. That's one reason why it's so immersive. And the theories also follow the level of complexity we see in real life theories, from which Skyrim borrows a lot.
I view Nirn's place in the cosmos as being similar to Earth. Space is the same as ours, the stars are the same, the sun is the same, nirn revolves around a star (their sun). I see the Magna-Ge as having ripped 3D-"holes" in the fabric of space, leaving behind a 3D ball of hot gas, i.e. a star. When it says that Magnus and the Magne-Ge fled creation it doesn't just mean that they fled Nirn, it means that they fled *all* of creation, they fled time and space, the cosmos. They went back the Aetherius, a kind of heaven, or at least a realm outside of the created universe and space-time. The Et'Ada that stayed remain in the created space-time and exist as uninhabitable planets, for giant lifeless rocks floating in space is all that remains of their physical bodies. Therefore, I don't believe that traveling through planes of oblivion are quite the same as space travel. It is exactly what it is stated to be - traveling through alternate dimensions. The daedra did _not_ contribute to creation, so they could not be part of space-time, or the universe, they must be outside of it. Hence the depiction of Mundus (the universe) floating in a sea of oblivion that is outside of it. I think it is useful for the daedric realms to be depicted as planets like how the Aedra are, simply to emphasize that they are the same creatures (Et'Ada), but in actuality they are infinite planes of existence that are *not* like our universe. They can't be so easily placed one-next-to-the-other in a 3-dimensional space. There could even be other galaxies in the Elder Scrolls universe, just no reason to mention them since they aren't significant to the series. Wouldn't it be funny if in Starfield you could find the Elder Scroll's galaxy, land on Nirn (specifically in Skyrim) and the locals end up arresting you. Next thing you know, you wake up on a cart bound for Helgen and you hear "hey you, you're finally awake?" Todd Howard will have done it again, he sold Skyrim to us AGAIN. That would be hilarious!
On that last note: I doubt it’ll ever be revealed, as the mystery is part of the point, but I really don’t want the TES cosmos to end up being some mundane “well, the ancient peoples had misconceptions” IRL style bullcrap. I _like_ the magical mystical explanation and don’t want it to change.
Zarik has some AMAZING chronology of the birth of Arbis, Anu, and Anui - el. It's amazing that this lore is so deep. In my opinion, this is what is missing from games nowadays.
Theory: The moons orbiting Nirn cause it to rotate, hence why the stars seem to move. It could also explain other things such as Hircine’s blood moon in the sense of Nirn’s orientation only being correct every so often. It could also be responsible for night and day because of different parts of Nirn facing the sun, as well as the seasons possibly correlating with the orientation towards the Aedra realms or Oblivion realms.
I wonder if the whole “incomprehensible to mortal minds” thing is just because the gods couldn't be bothered to explain General Relativity, which is understandable, I wouldn't want to try to teach a medieval farmer even classical mechanics, much less the absolutely mind bending General Relativity.
Also TES lore generally has a tendency of producing similar results to our world but with different mechanisms so it probably isn't far fetched that a lot of the physics and therefore space is similar but in a different way. Though I don't think anyone has thought it through entirely and Bethesda is just gonna leave it up to interpretation.
Ok arrogant demon. People back then were just as intelligent. They lack the context and development of today. But you marx people dont comprehend reality
What if the space theories in this TES are unreliable narratives of the common men just like how Earthlings used to think about the skies? In reality it may work similarly to how our universe works
Now you've got me thinking of how cool it would have been if they'd set Starfield in the Elder Scrolls galaxy, at least tangentially. Like, they could have built familiar constellations and celestial bodies into the galaxy map, but with absolutely no other references to ES, and let the nerds nerd out about it. Let people speculate on where Nirn may or may not be located. That sort of thing.
I have to hand it to them for making the celestial side of TES so creative. In my fantasy story, admittedly, it's much simpler. The setting is on an Earth-like planet with environments we Humans would recognise and it's third from its single star.
Ok but just to be clear Lorkahn did not "trick" the Et Ada. They simply misunderstood him. Vivek proved the gift of limitation was infact the gift of ascention(for one can only ascend if their is a limit to ascend beyond. The infinity of the proto gods became their own insurmountable limitation). Lorkhan's gift was Amaranth(full individual god ascension, the ability to be a new universe entirely seprate from the current one and it's unending kalpas). However the only person to have ever known it's truth is the one who failed amaranth and instead achieved "Chim", Chim beinging essentially one step above the original Et Ada stagnant proto God state(though i could write an essay on Chim alone we shan't go there here). However it is unclear just how powerful it really is and wether or not the state was only actually reachable by vivek via cheating using the heart of Lorkhan. Regardless, any descendant of the original Elnofey should be able to achieve Chim and thus also reach *Amoranth* and become they're own new universe as a new "dreamer". Thus the original promise of Lorkahn was genuine, regardless of the original Et Ada's inability to truly comprehend it due to the sheer ignorance, Greed, and impatience that make up their sphere of understanding. Just as a stone remains a stone regardless of wether or not you understand it or precieve it, the stone remains all the same, so too does the gift of Amaranth, so too does lorkahns truth remain genuine. Praise *Lorkhan!* PRAISE THE FININITE!
I'm curious if there's a difference between a moon and a planet from the perspective of geocentrism. If everything if revolving around Nirn wouldn't that make the other planets moons? In the case of TES only Masser and Secunda are considered moons though.
It wouldn't surprise me if much of what we think about space in the Elder Scrolls is intentionally inaccurate on the dev's part for the purpose of immersion. While there are nuggets of truth, much of what we think we know about space in TES is second hand and if there's one thing we know about Daedra and Aedra alike it's that none of them are truly perfect or fully benevolent. Much of the creation story could be an exaggeration or even outright lies woven together to make the deities look more powerful than they truly are or ever were. In regards to the nuggets of truth, we do know that things such as Daedra and Aedra and their respective realms do truly exist within the lore, because we get to speak to them and visit many of their realms. Though, we don't know to what extent it is true that their realms are truly "their" realms that they created, as in the Shivering Isles DLC in Oblivion the player is able to perform what is referred to as "Mantling" to outright become Sheogorath and take his place within existence, and with it comes lordship over his realm. If this was possible once, it could have been performed multiple times and as such other divine beings could just as easily have come and gone through a similar process of mantling that has gone undocumented. Unless we ever get to experience the full truth of the matter firsthand, space is going to remain mysterious with the in-lore religion being the best we have to work with to understand it. I feel that this is very intentional, as without knowing for sure whether space is anything like how it is in reality, we are more able to relate to our own player characters and the other characters that they interact with, assisting us mentally with immersing into their world. If we knew for sure that space is just space for instance, it would give us knowledge that other characters don't have and would completely kill the vibe of dialogue and scenes referring to space in such a mystical manner. It would remove us from their time and place mentally.
I'm confused as to how the planets could be infinite. In hyperbolic geometry, an infinite Euclidean plane would resemble a sphere, but they wouldn't be able to properly orbit. There's no "behind" the infinite planes. The edge you see where it's like it's curving beyond the horizon is actually infinitely far away, and the entire plane is visible. And they wouldn't be able to move. The further you go from the center, the faster everything would have to move, and more importantly, the faster it would have to curve towards the center to counter out space itself curving away, which means an infinite plane would have parts with arbitrary high acceleration. The moons would simply tear themselves apart. And if we ignore that, and say there's some finitely sized moon orbiting our infinite planet, they can't actually go in a circle. They'd just fly off towards the (infinitely far away) horizon and never come back. I hate how authors treat alien geometries. They just make up stuff that contradicts itself, instead of getting help from a mathematician to make geometry that makes sense, but feels like it contradicts itself.
The way I see it, Mundus is the centre of the universe/Aurbis. Oblivion is the cosmos below Mundus while Aetherius is the heavens above Mundus. Below the Aurbis you have the Void, the realm of Sithis, which spews creation into Oblivion, and above Aetherius you have the realm of Anuiel, what I like to call the Gate (a reference to FMA), a kind of white void made of infinite light, which spews into Aetherius. Beyond the scope of all this lies Anu and Padomay, with the All-Maker lording above them all.
@@infebris yeah you can look at it that way too though I prefer Oblivion being below Mundus and Aetherius being above Mundus. From a Birds Eye perspective, it would still look like a wheel.
It actually sounds exactly as the word for 'a second' in many languages I mean, a second as a 1/60 of a minute, not a second as a one between a first and a third
Elder Scrolls pretty much works on an Ancient/Medieval style interpetation of space where everyone lived in different Spheres and Earth is at the center of the universe.
3:00 - really wish we could interact with the Divines in the same way we get to interact with the Daedric Princes. Still, I’m pretty sure we can still visit the Divine Plane of Dibella, or, as some people know it, the Laboratory of Love…
shouldn't there have been one in the oblivian circle for the Soul Cairn, or do you think we were viewing from the surface of manmarco's relatively "new" moon? also, that said, if you look dead north on a clear night when there ISN'T an aroura, you not only see an obvious spiral arm, the star cluster there looks MIGHTY familiar. I propose the Nirn system is fairly close to the Pleiades.
I’m not an expert in Latin but I think Mundus is taken directly from Latin, meaning “world”, similar to Spanish “mundo”. The English adjective mundane to mean commonplace, boring, comes from this word mundus as well.
Ok well this was way more complex and strange than I had thought lol. I'm interested in the cosmological aspects of other fantasy series but I didn't get very deep into how TES depicts it. It's not just empty 'space!'
I like that you got the cosmology correct, there is no actual space. The amount of ESO references disturb me however. Could also go over the fluidity of Elder Scrolls reality and how its dependent on the beliefs of mortals. Hence why different peoples are able to effect the reality of the Daedra and Aedra or how history has shifted drastically from things we know happened or was. Essentially if no one believes in Tiber Septim as divine then he ceases to be and similarly if people view the creation of Mundas differently then the past as we know it ceases to be. One could also view this as being an easy out like Dragonbreaks for the writers of each game to do what they want like completely rewrite Skyrim's history to be about dragons or rewrite shouts as derived from dragons or removing whole cities or completely changing existing cities.
@@ChadVulpes Because its ESO. Although it has little bits of good lore the whole thing really messes with the lore. But that is to be expected as its an MMO it can't really be helped. Better to treat only Bethesda Game Studios games as canon as to not taint the lore with ESO or the card game lore.
@@ChadVulpes Its deeper than that. The MMO nature necessarily effects the lore because it must fit within that experience. Hell the first thing that the game did was force alliances in a way where no race was left out and where each member of each alliance was connected geographically. That didn't take existing lore and put the MMO into it but instead made the MMO and applied its setting to the lore. We could also point to how every class in the game uses quite a lot of magic with such silliness as the Dragonknight class being the most melee centric character still having a whole lot of magic abilities. Not to mention for the whole Imperial City battle. If ESO were to be considered canon then we'd have to be reading a lorebook about the reign of Emperor Poopguy4452 lol. And lets not forget that this game takes place a whopping 1000 years before Skyrim and a bit less from its predecessors, yet things are remarkably similar. Could also talk about how the Skyrim dragon lore shouldn't exist until after the Warp In the West but I'll be fair and assume Bethesda treat Skyrim's game lore as rewriting pre-Skyrim lore and not being the result of Dragonbreaks changing everything.
@@darken2417 Alliances for races in MMO games is something that just happens. WoW did it, and so does most everyone else. I've seen sillier names that Emperor Poopguy4452 in some people's Skyrim games. How's that different? I feel like TES, like most fantasy worlds don't progress in technology. What makes ESO portrayal of that any different? The rest of your points don't really pertain to the lore itself, so I didn't address them.
My question is most mortals in history were WHISKED to other planes. How about in the distant future, when say, the Skyrim Space Station launches an escape pod to one of the moons. What happens when they try to land? If they're all 3D tears in space/time, or the equivalent of, instead of encountering a physical atmosphere and then a surface, my theory is depending on how you land on it, you fall into different interpretations of said Divine/Oblivion Realms, because unlike a 2D hole, where regardless of how you approach you pass through the same way, a 3D hole in surface area is far larger than it appears. If moving space objects are physical and stationary ones are not, it might be that Nirn is in fact the only stationary object, and everything orbits via space itself rotates, rather than the celestial bodies? What about the divines or oblivion realms? What separates them meteorogically speaking? Since the divines sacrificed their powers, maybe their 3D tears became physical bodies, or maybe they're still realms but are somehow uncontrolled conciously by its respective divine, or maybe landing directly on one would be a different experience from landing on an oblivion realm. And how would you land ON a 3D tear in space? Questions to more questions...
That's surprisingly not fantasy! Some infinites are bigger than others. For example, if you took all integer numbers from 1 to ♾️, you'd have the set of all natural numbers. But the amount of rational numbers in between 0 and 1 is also infinity, and you can imagine there being a lot more 'fractional' numbers than whole numbers.
Re: Your Last Point: The canonicity of the Elder Scrolls universe, canonically, changes as well. In our world, the further back you look into history, the more it becomes muddled with myth, legend, and blindspots to the historical record. In the Elder Scrolls universe, this perception of the past is instead what's literally true of the past, as a closer proximity to the creation of the universe means a greater abundance of magic and consequently a greater abundance of temporal uncertainty, creating multiple pasts that are all at once true and each one full of events that just wouldn't be possible today. The future, on the other hand, is more certain, more rigid, and less magical, so it's possible in future eras, things like a geocentric model might physically stop being the truth as they're supplanted with more logical models, not by physicists but by reality itself.
I feel like the """"real"""" explanations for some of the things in the elder scrolls are more in line with our own reality, but are possible because of the metaphysics of actual magic. As other people have said, perhaps the stars ARE tears to aetherius, but are simply 3D tears, like wormholes are 3d holes. Perhaps the universe is infinite in physical space, like our own, and you CAN physically travel to other "planets," but those plants, like Nirn, are the physical remnants of metaphysical beings like how Nirn is whats left of Lorkhan. One CAN physicall travel and explore all of the physical aspect of their dimensions, but their extra-dimensional nature is only possible with magic. Oblivion in this case would be a purely magical or "extra dimensional" place- perhaps like our own ideas of physical parallel universes. And like is mentioned in outside sources, ideas of far-future technological civilizations that have melded magic and technology to leave Nirn behind is a neat idea. I believe one source states that The Eye of Magnus is actually just an AI asteroid mining machine that somehow got sent back in time and crashed on Nirn. Its immense magic and metalic structure are, like dwemer automatons, linked; it has immense magical power because it is USING that power to do its job out in space. But, maybe I'm wrong. I love lore and speculation, especially with crazy worlds like elder scrolls
Wait, Nirn is destroyed in the fifth era? I mean, now I'm curious, what would happen if the Dovahkiin was never born, and Alduin was left free to do whatever he wanted?
Knowing that the sun just a magnus tear it made me wonder why it hurts vampires. The argument of it could be the magika leaking out that does it falls apart when they use magic themselves. Are tans just magika burns or is the sun still a sun just also a tear?
I like to think that the stars aren't flat tears, but rather 3D tears, they just ripped through space right where they stood, leaving big, three dimensional holes.
they could easily appear spherical like the planets and for the same reasons too
If a 3D being made a hole in a 2D world, it would look like a circle. If a 4D being made a hold in a 3D world, it would look like a sphere. I like this idea.
I've had this theory for years, and you're the first one that i've seen that also arrived to that conclusion
They could be white holes; white holes are part of a hypothesis for how black holes in our world works, which is too complicated to explain, but the relevant thing is that this model supposes that everything black holes suck in gets spewed out in another universe (where the arrow of time is supposed to be reversed but that's not relevant here. This sounds very similar to the description we are given from lore and would explain why energy is coming out of them, another important part of this model is that travel across a white/black hole is impossible because if would take an infinite ammount of time. This also lines up with what we know, that travel to this parallel dimension is very difficult and the general idea of infinities.
@@domd The interesting thing about that idea is that it isn't entirely untrue about our world either. Our senses evolved for certain circumstances and that limits our perceptions. The best example would be black holes, you've probably seen renderings of them, and they are accurate, but what you see there is not very reflective of their actual structure. Black holes are in a sense infinitely large in that they can contain an infinite amount of mass energy, they appear spherical simply because of the event horizon, in reality they might not actually have a shape since they are infinitely dense.
There's a lot more examples of this but basically “limited by mortal minds” sounds an awful lot like our reality where our perceptions are limited and shaped by the fact that we are animals that evolved in a certain environment. It also might be what you'd say if you were suddenly tasked with trying to explain the world to a medieval peasant.
Elder scrolls stars are basically chill white holes. They're 3d tears in space fabric that pour out magicka
They are 3d ...such thing is not stated...
Yeah pretty much white holes that function as wormholes to Aetherius.
@@samirsaif6886 statements are for basic storytelling. The understand lore would require delving into the realm of implication and deduction.
@@CrescentCrusader99kinda, there is a literal physical barrier that the holes go through to enter oblivion and go through the next barrier into aetherius
So, what is it?
I've never seen one before -- no one has -- but I'm guessing it's a white hole. 😀
My favourite fact about Space/Oblivion is that you can breathe in it, but the metaphysical nature of that space keeps trying to make you forget
So basically it just makes you manually breathe
@@Raventherose Damn it why've you done this to me
@@CharliReef suffer
Elder Scrolls lore has always been more unhinged and esoteric than anything else I’ve ever seen.
And consistently wasted in games by BGS, disappointingly.
@@SabiJD tbh TES:O dips into (and expands upon) Kirkbridean stuff all the time with mixed success. Clockwork City was an absolute marvel to behold and to put Tribunal(the DLC) to shame, whereas Summerset that came directly after it suddenly went the route of "guys we need to assemble zero-stones to achieve chims and amaranths to beat the bad Daedra!" which made me physically wince (especially because i was so hyped up by the previous, utmostly tastefully done, chapter of the trilogy). The quality of writing is a wild sine wave in ESO.
then again, it isn't even done by BGS...At least ZOS get it right sometimes, as opposed to Todd who never does anymore.
I actually was just wondering how space works in TES and then this video gets recommended. The algorithm is in my head.
Same, but I've always wanted to know since in one dragon break, they went to space.
You've willed this video into existence. I thought only the most skilled Red Guard swordsmen were capable of such a feat.
Holy shit dude, where did you find that profile picture? If it came from where I thought it does, you might be one of the coolest fellas I've run across in Elder Scrolls comments
You have been secretly installed with a neurolink.
You shape your reality
0:22 secundeez nuts
Missed the chance to make a joke about what happens when you get killed by a giant in Skyrim when asking if space travel is possible
I'm getting huge Dragonlance vibes about the moons. On Krynn there are three moons, and one of them can only be seen by evil beings.
Elder scrolls is the one universe I truly expect to go insane the more I understand “physics.”
It can be interpreted that these are of course, normal stars and planets, and that without advanced sciences and technologies such as emission spectra they’re forced to rely on incomplete interpretations as we were in the past. Ather for example is a disproven universal medium we once believed conducted light and gravity.
Listening to ES lore about the great beyond while skyrim music plays in the background just makes me appreciate this franchise so much more.
Crazy to think that mannimarco became the necromancer moon after daggefall
What do you mean? he -/did/did not/only partially/- become the moon due the Dragon break.
The Lunar Lorkhan is likely incorrect. Fal Droon, the character who wrote that book is meant to be the apex of unreliable narrators in TES, to the point his name is an anagram for “Darn Fool.”
Yeah it's kind of annoying how even though it's well known that written lore in TES is unreliable and should always be approached skeptically because it may be unreliable, not literal, or an outright lie or fiction, certain people will still point to certain written sources (that happen to conveniently support their headcanon) and yell that it's real because it says so and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
@@ankoku37 well not ALL written lore, just certain sources like Fal Droon. It is still annoying that they're listed as reliable when they're anything but
@@ankoku37it's like how the bible gets used in the real world
@@SnootchieBootchies27 tell me you've never read the Bible without telling me you've never read the Bible
@@stefanstirbu6070 I stand by my statement
I love TES lore. Especially since we aren't on earth, we're on Nirn. We have two moons. The planets are cool, solar system cool, snd its just so cool.
Great video man, I know this was a good bit of research! Somewhat related, you know Douglas Goodall? The designer from Morrowind? He is participating in the modathon under the name AFFA, and he has released an Imperial Mananaut mod over on nexus. So, really good time to be checking out the space aspects!:D
I was not aware of that! Will definitely check that out, thanks!
Thanks for informing me of this! Holy smokes that sounds really cool!
When you die in Starfield you wake up in the back of cart...
Wouldn’t be surprised at this point honestly lol
Hey, you. You're finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right?
@@ceedott
What's up there in space in Elder Scrolls? A STELLARIS observation post, farming science points off the primitives' peculiar uses of psionics and interdimensional portals.
@@ChadVulpeswould have been a clever way to keep players in skyrim, just reset their game with a black out screen
It would be fun if the game could read your storage to see if you have digital skyrim, and after you meet yourself it starts a new skyrim game. For some reason it reminds me of the time you could put the van helsing DVD in a xbox to play the demo.
I'm tempted to say that daedra are aliens with teleportation technology
Youre not INCORRECT… however….
They’re literally from another plane of existence. They’re aliens in every sense of the word
Always figured that Greyskins were martians.
THIS IS MIGHT & MAGIC ALL OVER AGAIN!
@@BenisDD
Imagine if the Elder Scrolls world was like old Might and Magic all along, and in reality, the Daedra are just extremely advanced aliens. Magic is simply some complex sci-fi concept that we don't understand and thus perceive as magic.
In Battlespire you must ride what's called a Star Gally. Which is literally a ⛵ to sail into outter space.
This is a great channel! Just pure lore, no headcanons and no theories talked as if they were true.
Also a great deal of respect for stuff outside of the big three games (Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim). I love Kirkbride's contributions, but sometimes the TES community take all of his words as gospel and ignore the other writers for the series.
Anyway, keep up the amazing work!
I love a materialist explanation of The Elder Scrolls
This makes me wonder if Talos is truly a god considering he doesn’t have a planet or a moon.
There are a bunch of complicated theories out there and there is of course the whole debate about whether or not Talos is actually a god (I believe he is personally), but when it comes to the fact that he doesn’t noticeably have a planet/moon, Talos is believed to have “mantled” Lorkhan as a Shezzarine (basically a mortal reincarnation of Lorkhan/Shezarr), and thus when he ascended, Nirn/Masser and Secunda would have become his planet/plane of existence.
I did think about talking about this in the video, but it’s a bit of a complicated topic and it’s nothing with a definitive answer.
The planets are just the original gods. It's not a 1:1 rule of "god = planet"
For example, the Tribunal of Morrowind -- Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil -- were living gods and they didn't have planets either. They were mortals who ascended to divinity.
Talos is a similar situation.
The Thalmor approve this comment.
You're looking at it wrong. There are not just 8 or 9 Aedra, and neither does every Aedra have a visible or tangible location in Mundus. There are most likely infinite Aedra, all part of Nirn, in the surrounding cosmic system, or even hidden from view like the Third Moon or other unknowns.
Nords, Redguards, Cyrodiilic peoples, Bretons, and many other untold human races had their own pantheons before the first era invented the eight divines, and even the pre-iterations of the divines like Shor and Kyne for example were very much real and separate from the modern pantheon.
Just like there are infinite Daedra but only 17(?) that take an active interest in Mundus, there are infinite Aedra in Mundus. Some are men and mer souls waiting to be born, others are larger entities. I don't wanna ramble, just, it's bigger than what you see.
@@AeyakS "There are most likely infinite Aedra" Literally never heard of that in the lore though… . Besides, and I don't know if that's what you are referring to, there is an important distinction between gods spirits and original spirits. One becoming a god implies that they are capable of interfering in that reality, just as the gods did when they created it.
Also, the big similarities between the myths within each race kind of implies that they aren't as numerous, otherwise you would hear from their influence more often than not. I like the idea of infinite Aedra (Gods), but lore wise, that idea is not very substantiated. Specially considering that, if you look at it from a theological point of view, you can see how each god/prince was designed to be a confinement for concepts such as love, hate, nature, earth, sky, shadow, etc. They already have well described characterizations for each of the Aedra and Deadra, and, like so, you can conclude how having “infinite concepts” wouldn't really fit the lore accurately.
The process of mantling reinforces that as well, for you to turn into a proper god (not just godlike, like Vivec for example) you have to act like one. Implying again that those essential aspects and concepts of humanity are what distinguish mere “spirits” or “demigods” from gods.
Reallly fascinating and good video! I’ve been looking all over for something covering this specific question.
Glad it could be of service!
I recall one of the authors that left after TES2 said that the drawfs into the futrue and that they were very behind tech wise since i guess the time they were popped into was currently having a space war but there's zero chance that's cannon but it always made me wonder about the elder scrolls space
Michael Kirkbride I think
10:57 That type of thing getting addresed could be an interesting thing to add to an elder scrolls game where they're set in a time period with technology, science and medicine as close to ours, but that would be too risky for Bethesda to try.
But I still love the idea of magic and tech being used together, things like enchanted pieces of tech sounds like something an industrial scaled company could do in a world of that nature, and magitech items being used for scientific discovery in such a world. This is an interesting concept, hopefully it will be executed flawlessly if it ever happens.
Was there ever a good video game where straight-up magic and technology were used together? I feel like there should be.
You could consider Bioshock a fusion of magic and technology.
@@ChadVulpes I haven't seen a game like that before but I could imagine that could've been in some obscure DOS title from the 80s and 90s.
@@blueblaze5160 I've tried some of it while visiting my sister on my brother-in-law's PS4 but not enough to understand the lore or how that's like in the game world.
@@Im-BAD-at-satire that’s so specific, but it sound probable, hahah
1:43 it isn't confirmed he tricked them, a lot of pantheons believe it was an acknowledged and willing sacrifice
it depends on who you ask
Love the vid bro personally i thought i knew absolutely everything about the elder scrolls universe but youve opened my mind alot! And that adds more soo much more wonder to game and even makes me wanna play rn soo mad props bro keep up the content💯
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about the Elder Scrolls, it’s that there’s always more lore to discover lol. Thank you for the kind words!
Love this sort of stuff. Good job on the video mate.
I like your channel because you talk about interesting Elder Scrolls topics. Keep it up
Thank you!
I've always wanted an Elder scrolls game where you would sail from planet to planet on atherial current going through space.
Meeting each Aedra and Dedra according to each planet and seeing the different being each world would offer and maybe even different towns.
Plus, you could go through a castle or dungeon each world to talk/fight the Dedra or Aedra depending on their quests.
And before you say you'd never interact with the Aedra that way remember, in Oblivion, you literally become Sheogorath.
Great video, you have some pretty well founded knowledge. Appreciate the way you summed up
some of the more nebulous events. Subscribed, hope you get more recognition.
Great video once more!
Thank you so much!
interesting, underrated, You now have my subscription
Yeah but if Space is real why can i shoot an arrow at the sun and it gets dark?
thats literally auriel's bow
Because you shoot really far and make space blink
@@KaijuGal-rb9ek Finally the sun looses the staring contest
I like how your using the song secunda while talking about space
I sometimes learn or am entertained to the point I rewatch videos and this is one of them.
The ending 10 seconds was really well written and well delivered ! Nice work
This was some solid work, good job.
Thank you very much!
This is a great video! It's a damn shame you only have 3k views. I'm not big on TES Lore(or TES in general), but I really like your to-the-point presentation. I'm subbed.
Thank you so much!
@@ceedott Thank you for creating something worthwhile! :)
Cool video. I always like listening to people talk about TES and all its lore.
Thinking about it... The realm of Mundus follows the archaic idea of our own universe, that the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it.
It's all perception. Technically, you can argue wherever you are is the center of the universe.
As a astrologist, I'll make some suggestions to you.
The entire observable universe has earth at the center. Likely due to earth being the point of view.
The observable universe, quantum foam and TV static all look the same in 2d representation. That's not just astrological it's quantum mechanics, radiology and physics.
If something seen a light year away, is what that object looked like 1 year ago then the fact that there's objects seen 13 billion light years away would be evidence of the universe being older than 13 billion years.
It's suggested in beleif systems that the only real space is earth and everything else was put there by God bc a black sky was super boring.
I love the night sky box on the series x, especially combined with the wind ambiance and soundtrack.
Amazing video! I really enjoyed learning it all.
Somewhat off topic, but this video is so cozy to me, I love TES music, it’s so calming and nostalgic to me, thank you
Great video, I love learning about the lore of many fantasy settings as it kind relates back to our own. The last part you mentioned about how phenomena in the Elder Scrolls universe might be misinterpreted by lack of technology could be a theory same as to our history.
Space in Skyrim is very interesting cuz the kind of shit that ancient humans believed to be the case irl ACTUALLY IS the case in the elder scrolls universe. Like the stars are not burning balls of gas, they're legit fuckin tears in reality that leak out magicka. Shit's wild
Tears into Atherius no less. A demention that is essentially a cocoon to mundus. Basically magic leaks from "heaven."
@@jimmyjams5038 I love those lore bits that are just outrageous and unrealistic. Unfortunately modern Bethesda doesn't and keeps trying to dumb down their franchises to be as boring and realistic as possible
@@bandawin18 yeah their writers don't really do much with the established lore unfortunately. The writing in general has gotten much worse as each Bethesda game is released.
9:00 What a beautiful image...
Skyrim's lore is very cohesive and complete, detailed. That's one reason why it's so immersive. And the theories also follow the level of complexity we see in real life theories, from which Skyrim borrows a lot.
I view Nirn's place in the cosmos as being similar to Earth. Space is the same as ours, the stars are the same, the sun is the same, nirn revolves around a star (their sun). I see the Magna-Ge as having ripped 3D-"holes" in the fabric of space, leaving behind a 3D ball of hot gas, i.e. a star. When it says that Magnus and the Magne-Ge fled creation it doesn't just mean that they fled Nirn, it means that they fled *all* of creation, they fled time and space, the cosmos. They went back the Aetherius, a kind of heaven, or at least a realm outside of the created universe and space-time. The Et'Ada that stayed remain in the created space-time and exist as uninhabitable planets, for giant lifeless rocks floating in space is all that remains of their physical bodies.
Therefore, I don't believe that traveling through planes of oblivion are quite the same as space travel. It is exactly what it is stated to be - traveling through alternate dimensions. The daedra did _not_ contribute to creation, so they could not be part of space-time, or the universe, they must be outside of it. Hence the depiction of Mundus (the universe) floating in a sea of oblivion that is outside of it. I think it is useful for the daedric realms to be depicted as planets like how the Aedra are, simply to emphasize that they are the same creatures (Et'Ada), but in actuality they are infinite planes of existence that are *not* like our universe. They can't be so easily placed one-next-to-the-other in a 3-dimensional space.
There could even be other galaxies in the Elder Scrolls universe, just no reason to mention them since they aren't significant to the series. Wouldn't it be funny if in Starfield you could find the Elder Scroll's galaxy, land on Nirn (specifically in Skyrim) and the locals end up arresting you. Next thing you know, you wake up on a cart bound for Helgen and you hear "hey you, you're finally awake?" Todd Howard will have done it again, he sold Skyrim to us AGAIN. That would be hilarious!
On that last note:
I doubt it’ll ever be revealed, as the mystery is part of the point, but I really don’t want the TES cosmos to end up being some mundane “well, the ancient peoples had misconceptions” IRL style bullcrap. I _like_ the magical mystical explanation and don’t want it to change.
Zarik has some AMAZING chronology of the birth of Arbis, Anu, and Anui - el. It's amazing that this lore is so deep.
In my opinion, this is what is missing from games nowadays.
Theory:
The moons orbiting Nirn cause it to rotate, hence why the stars seem to move. It could also explain other things such as Hircine’s blood moon in the sense of Nirn’s orientation only being correct every so often. It could also be responsible for night and day because of different parts of Nirn facing the sun, as well as the seasons possibly correlating with the orientation towards the Aedra realms or Oblivion realms.
Literally brainstorming how an elder scrolls game in space would be like. Treasure Planet, flying ships, etc
Great video!
I wonder if the whole “incomprehensible to mortal minds” thing is just because the gods couldn't be bothered to explain General Relativity, which is understandable, I wouldn't want to try to teach a medieval farmer even classical mechanics, much less the absolutely mind bending General Relativity.
Also TES lore generally has a tendency of producing similar results to our world but with different mechanisms so it probably isn't far fetched that a lot of the physics and therefore space is similar but in a different way. Though I don't think anyone has thought it through entirely and Bethesda is just gonna leave it up to interpretation.
Ok arrogant demon. People back then were just as intelligent. They lack the context and development of today. But you marx people dont comprehend reality
I have noticed that the sky moves as time goes by in Skyrim
What if the space theories in this TES are unreliable narratives of the common men just like how Earthlings used to think about the skies? In reality it may work similarly to how our universe works
Now you've got me thinking of how cool it would have been if they'd set Starfield in the Elder Scrolls galaxy, at least tangentially. Like, they could have built familiar constellations and celestial bodies into the galaxy map, but with absolutely no other references to ES, and let the nerds nerd out about it. Let people speculate on where Nirn may or may not be located. That sort of thing.
I have to hand it to them for making the celestial side of TES so creative. In my fantasy story, admittedly, it's much simpler. The setting is on an Earth-like planet with environments we Humans would recognise and it's third from its single star.
Don't wanna play too fast and loose I see haha
you probably have Michael kirkbride to thank for that. He's denied it but let's be honest the dude has definitely tripped a few times
Thank you I enjoyed that ❤️
Very cool video dude
Thanks!
man image if Dwemer discovered space travel that be insane
Ok but just to be clear Lorkahn did not "trick" the Et Ada. They simply misunderstood him.
Vivek proved the gift of limitation was infact the gift of ascention(for one can only ascend if their is a limit to ascend beyond. The infinity of the proto gods became their own insurmountable limitation).
Lorkhan's gift was Amaranth(full individual god ascension, the ability to be a new universe entirely seprate from the current one and it's unending kalpas). However the only person to have ever known it's truth is the one who failed amaranth and instead achieved "Chim", Chim beinging essentially one step above the original Et Ada stagnant proto God state(though i could write an essay on Chim alone we shan't go there here). However it is unclear just how powerful it really is and wether or not the state was only actually reachable by vivek via cheating using the heart of Lorkhan. Regardless, any descendant of the original Elnofey should be able to achieve Chim and thus also reach *Amoranth* and become they're own new universe as a new "dreamer". Thus the original promise of Lorkahn was genuine, regardless of the original Et Ada's inability to truly comprehend it due to the sheer ignorance, Greed, and impatience that make up their sphere of understanding. Just as a stone remains a stone regardless of wether or not you understand it or precieve it, the stone remains all the same, so too does the gift of Amaranth, so too does lorkahns truth remain genuine.
Praise *Lorkhan!*
PRAISE THE FININITE!
🤓🤓
I was hooked as soon as I got out the sewers in oblivion and looked up at the. Ight sky. It was literally game changing😢
I always wonder what space and aliens are like in fantasy universes.
I'm curious if there's a difference between a moon and a planet from the perspective of geocentrism. If everything if revolving around Nirn wouldn't that make the other planets moons? In the case of TES only Masser and Secunda are considered moons though.
Planets and Moons might be different concepts in the world of TES.
999th sub here. Good vid.
Subbed before i even watched 5 seconds
I use videos like this to meditate and sleep
It wouldn't surprise me if much of what we think about space in the Elder Scrolls is intentionally inaccurate on the dev's part for the purpose of immersion. While there are nuggets of truth, much of what we think we know about space in TES is second hand and if there's one thing we know about Daedra and Aedra alike it's that none of them are truly perfect or fully benevolent. Much of the creation story could be an exaggeration or even outright lies woven together to make the deities look more powerful than they truly are or ever were.
In regards to the nuggets of truth, we do know that things such as Daedra and Aedra and their respective realms do truly exist within the lore, because we get to speak to them and visit many of their realms. Though, we don't know to what extent it is true that their realms are truly "their" realms that they created, as in the Shivering Isles DLC in Oblivion the player is able to perform what is referred to as "Mantling" to outright become Sheogorath and take his place within existence, and with it comes lordship over his realm. If this was possible once, it could have been performed multiple times and as such other divine beings could just as easily have come and gone through a similar process of mantling that has gone undocumented.
Unless we ever get to experience the full truth of the matter firsthand, space is going to remain mysterious with the in-lore religion being the best we have to work with to understand it. I feel that this is very intentional, as without knowing for sure whether space is anything like how it is in reality, we are more able to relate to our own player characters and the other characters that they interact with, assisting us mentally with immersing into their world. If we knew for sure that space is just space for instance, it would give us knowledge that other characters don't have and would completely kill the vibe of dialogue and scenes referring to space in such a mystical manner. It would remove us from their time and place mentally.
Breh, all those likes and no subs? I gotchu , good stuf dude
This was nice.
Overall.
I liked this.
I'm confused as to how the planets could be infinite. In hyperbolic geometry, an infinite Euclidean plane would resemble a sphere, but they wouldn't be able to properly orbit. There's no "behind" the infinite planes. The edge you see where it's like it's curving beyond the horizon is actually infinitely far away, and the entire plane is visible. And they wouldn't be able to move. The further you go from the center, the faster everything would have to move, and more importantly, the faster it would have to curve towards the center to counter out space itself curving away, which means an infinite plane would have parts with arbitrary high acceleration. The moons would simply tear themselves apart. And if we ignore that, and say there's some finitely sized moon orbiting our infinite planet, they can't actually go in a circle. They'd just fly off towards the (infinitely far away) horizon and never come back.
I hate how authors treat alien geometries. They just make up stuff that contradicts itself, instead of getting help from a mathematician to make geometry that makes sense, but feels like it contradicts itself.
Its not alien geometry, its god geometry, and i guess gods can make infinite spheres
Thank you starfield, thank you for letting space exploration and general game design for space games down.
No man's sky is a very good alternative
This video came out on my birthday lol
Happy birthday!
I wonder what a space age techologically advanced elderlscrolls would be like
The way I see it, Mundus is the centre of the universe/Aurbis. Oblivion is the cosmos below Mundus while Aetherius is the heavens above Mundus. Below the Aurbis you have the Void, the realm of Sithis, which spews creation into Oblivion, and above Aetherius you have the realm of Anuiel, what I like to call the Gate (a reference to FMA), a kind of white void made of infinite light, which spews into Aetherius. Beyond the scope of all this lies Anu and Padomay, with the All-Maker lording above them all.
its basically like a planet, aetherius is the surface, oblivion is the mantle and mundus is the core.
@@infebris yeah you can look at it that way too though I prefer Oblivion being below Mundus and Aetherius being above Mundus. From a Birds Eye perspective, it would still look like a wheel.
Gravity is just a burden spell cast on everything by Akatosh.
Akatosh is the god of time not gravity
@@infebrissame thing
Secunda? Sounds like that planet in dune! Seluna secundus
It actually sounds exactly as the word for 'a second' in many languages
I mean, a second as a 1/60 of a minute, not a second as a one between a first and a third
@@whoeverest_the_whateverest ah ok
Elder Scrolls pretty much works on an Ancient/Medieval style interpetation of space where everyone lived in different Spheres and Earth is at the center of the universe.
3:00 - really wish we could interact with the Divines in the same way we get to interact with the Daedric Princes.
Still, I’m pretty sure we can still visit the Divine Plane of Dibella, or, as some people know it, the Laboratory of Love…
shouldn't there have been one in the oblivian circle for the Soul Cairn, or do you think we were viewing from the surface of manmarco's relatively "new" moon? also, that said, if you look dead north on a clear night when there ISN'T an aroura, you not only see an obvious spiral arm, the star cluster there looks MIGHTY familiar. I propose the Nirn system is fairly close to the Pleiades.
Cool vid 😎
I’m not an expert in Latin but I think Mundus is taken directly from Latin, meaning “world”, similar to Spanish “mundo”. The English adjective mundane to mean commonplace, boring, comes from this word mundus as well.
Ok well this was way more complex and strange than I had thought lol. I'm interested in the cosmological aspects of other fantasy series but I didn't get very deep into how TES depicts it. It's not just empty 'space!'
Where did that space core bit come from??! XD
9:08 I'd buy a modern console for the chance to play 'Elder Scrolls VII: Masser'.
Its full of caves.
I crave more videos they're good
I like that you got the cosmology correct, there is no actual space. The amount of ESO references disturb me however.
Could also go over the fluidity of Elder Scrolls reality and how its dependent on the beliefs of mortals.
Hence why different peoples are able to effect the reality of the Daedra and Aedra or how history has shifted drastically from things we know happened or was.
Essentially if no one believes in Tiber Septim as divine then he ceases to be and similarly if people view the creation of Mundas differently then the past as we know it ceases to be.
One could also view this as being an easy out like Dragonbreaks for the writers of each game to do what they want like completely rewrite Skyrim's history to be about dragons or rewrite shouts as derived from dragons or removing whole cities or completely changing existing cities.
Why is this amount of ESO references disturbing to you?
@@ChadVulpes
Because its ESO.
Although it has little bits of good lore the whole thing really messes with the lore.
But that is to be expected as its an MMO it can't really be helped.
Better to treat only Bethesda Game Studios games as canon as to not taint the lore with ESO or the card game lore.
@@darken2417 So ESO lore is bad because it's an MMO?
@@ChadVulpes
Its deeper than that. The MMO nature necessarily effects the lore because it must fit within that experience.
Hell the first thing that the game did was force alliances in a way where no race was left out and where each member of each alliance was connected geographically.
That didn't take existing lore and put the MMO into it but instead made the MMO and applied its setting to the lore.
We could also point to how every class in the game uses quite a lot of magic with such silliness as the Dragonknight class being the most melee centric character still having a whole lot of magic abilities.
Not to mention for the whole Imperial City battle. If ESO were to be considered canon then we'd have to be reading a lorebook about the reign of Emperor Poopguy4452 lol.
And lets not forget that this game takes place a whopping 1000 years before Skyrim and a bit less from its predecessors, yet things are remarkably similar.
Could also talk about how the Skyrim dragon lore shouldn't exist until after the Warp In the West but I'll be fair and assume Bethesda treat Skyrim's game lore as rewriting pre-Skyrim lore and not being the result of Dragonbreaks changing everything.
@@darken2417
Alliances for races in MMO games is something that just happens. WoW did it, and so does most everyone else.
I've seen sillier names that Emperor Poopguy4452 in some people's Skyrim games. How's that different?
I feel like TES, like most fantasy worlds don't progress in technology. What makes ESO portrayal of that any different?
The rest of your points don't really pertain to the lore itself, so I didn't address them.
Mannimarco was a warlock & necromancer - not a witch.
Coda is some crazy stuff.
My question is most mortals in history were WHISKED to other planes. How about in the distant future, when say, the Skyrim Space Station launches an escape pod to one of the moons. What happens when they try to land? If they're all 3D tears in space/time, or the equivalent of, instead of encountering a physical atmosphere and then a surface, my theory is depending on how you land on it, you fall into different interpretations of said Divine/Oblivion Realms, because unlike a 2D hole, where regardless of how you approach you pass through the same way, a 3D hole in surface area is far larger than it appears.
If moving space objects are physical and stationary ones are not, it might be that Nirn is in fact the only stationary object, and everything orbits via space itself rotates, rather than the celestial bodies? What about the divines or oblivion realms? What separates them meteorogically speaking? Since the divines sacrificed their powers, maybe their 3D tears became physical bodies, or maybe they're still realms but are somehow uncontrolled conciously by its respective divine, or maybe landing directly on one would be a different experience from landing on an oblivion realm. And how would you land ON a 3D tear in space? Questions to more questions...
"some infinities are smaller than others" is exactly the kind of nonsense fantasy logic that makes the genre so fun and incredible
I hope then that you realise that is in fact not fantasy nonsense, some infinities are indeed smaller than others
@@helo9316 let's agree to disagree
@@sighberspook2021 agree to disagree? Over something which is actually a fact? How so?
Math is fantasy
That's surprisingly not fantasy! Some infinites are bigger than others. For example, if you took all integer numbers from 1 to ♾️, you'd have the set of all natural numbers. But the amount of rational numbers in between 0 and 1 is also infinity, and you can imagine there being a lot more 'fractional' numbers than whole numbers.
Its meant to say
Space
The final frontier….
😂
Re: Your Last Point:
The canonicity of the Elder Scrolls universe, canonically, changes as well. In our world, the further back you look into history, the more it becomes muddled with myth, legend, and blindspots to the historical record. In the Elder Scrolls universe, this perception of the past is instead what's literally true of the past, as a closer proximity to the creation of the universe means a greater abundance of magic and consequently a greater abundance of temporal uncertainty, creating multiple pasts that are all at once true and each one full of events that just wouldn't be possible today. The future, on the other hand, is more certain, more rigid, and less magical, so it's possible in future eras, things like a geocentric model might physically stop being the truth as they're supplanted with more logical models, not by physicists but by reality itself.
It basically follows Aristotle's and Dante's models.
7:30 pierce the veil reference 😮
I feel like the """"real"""" explanations for some of the things in the elder scrolls are more in line with our own reality, but are possible because of the metaphysics of actual magic. As other people have said, perhaps the stars ARE tears to aetherius, but are simply 3D tears, like wormholes are 3d holes. Perhaps the universe is infinite in physical space, like our own, and you CAN physically travel to other "planets," but those plants, like Nirn, are the physical remnants of metaphysical beings like how Nirn is whats left of Lorkhan. One CAN physicall travel and explore all of the physical aspect of their dimensions, but their extra-dimensional nature is only possible with magic. Oblivion in this case would be a purely magical or "extra dimensional" place- perhaps like our own ideas of physical parallel universes.
And like is mentioned in outside sources, ideas of far-future technological civilizations that have melded magic and technology to leave Nirn behind is a neat idea. I believe one source states that The Eye of Magnus is actually just an AI asteroid mining machine that somehow got sent back in time and crashed on Nirn. Its immense magic and metalic structure are, like dwemer automatons, linked; it has immense magical power because it is USING that power to do its job out in space.
But, maybe I'm wrong. I love lore and speculation, especially with crazy worlds like elder scrolls
What’s that image/art that first pops up at 5:47? I looked in the description, but it doesn’t seem to be one of the ones listed.
Wait, Nirn is destroyed in the fifth era?
I mean, now I'm curious, what would happen if the Dovahkiin was never born, and Alduin was left free to do whatever he wanted?
Sounds like a 4D space.
Knowing that the sun just a magnus tear it made me wonder why it hurts vampires. The argument of it could be the magika leaking out that does it falls apart when they use magic themselves. Are tans just magika burns or is the sun still a sun just also a tear?
It's still very hot and bright, so sunburn is still a sunburn, even though it's not a sun.
Where does the Soul Cairn reside, I wonder?