How and Why to install an Automatic Charging Relay in a Boat or RV
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2022
- This is a practical video describing how to install an automatic charging relay (ACR) in a boat, to allow charging of two battery banks. An automatic charging relay, also known as a battery combiner, allows seamless integration of solar and wind power charging, shore power charging, and alternator charging without the annoying inconvenience of trying to remember to turn battery switches manually. The video describes how automatic charging relays and battery combiners work, how to install them, and how to safely size wires and design a system.
Follow along for a practical installation in a boat with two battery banks. I go through a demonstration of the parasitic current draw for a Blue Sea Automatic Charging Relay (ACR) when the relay is either on and off.
This video is unsponsored and amateur, and it is offered for free but with no guarantees. Although I made every amateur effort to do this procedure correctly, I am not an electrician and I do not have ABYC certification. Not all safety precautions are shown, and a basic understanding of risk is assumed.
Before proceeding with a project, always seek out multiple sources for critical information. Only you can evaluate your competence and risk tolerance. If you decide to accept the risk and responsibility of working on your own boat, realize that any misadventure you encounter is solely on you.
For an intelligent second look at these systems, check out the CompassMarine website, here
marinehowto.com/automatic-cha... - Авто та транспорт
You consistently produce some of the very finest educational content available on UA-cam. Your knowledge and experience is extensive and your ability to teach is superb.
Thank you,
You have a very scientific mind and you explained everything very well. You spent a considerable time making all the important points edited on video to make sense. I'll just need to watch it a few times to catch everything you explained.
You motivated me to move my alternator over. I hadn't planned to move it since the ACR notionally was bridging the gap.
Thank you for a thoughtful & practical video that gives just enough theory & the reasoning underpinning it in an understandable manner.
Quite a feat for such a relatively short video!
I'll be watching a few times with a pen & paper in hand for bullet points & notes.
Wow. You have the gift of teaching. Seen many videos, and this one is excellent. Your teaching aides are great. Thank you for sharing. Look forward to watching some more.
What a kind remark, thank you.
Thank you for such a great video! Your design emphasized safety and operation! It is seaworthy!
This is a GREAT video. I am building a boat and am soon to wire things up. This helped me. Thanks for making this video.
I followed this path and was digging the results for a while.... But then decided later to go Lithium for the house bank. Then the ACR having a fixed voltage became troublesome. Used one of Victron's DC to DC regulators and replaced the ACR and kept the same DC switch which is just bloody brilliant and really great to not have to remember anymore! Really appreciate some of the videos you have done over the years.
Similar problem on my camper. Mixed battery environment of FLA with new Lithium house batteries killed my engine batteries due to a constant draw of power through the ACR because it would never disconnect. Installed Victron DC-DC isolated regulator, disconnected the ACR - problem solved.
Fantastic article. Speunkered nailed my immeidate need, but after looking at couple of comments... So, are you guys saying to just put in a DC to DC smart charger instead of an ACR? My boat is a two-battery 1988 Cal sailboat with the old 1-2-both-off switch. I just bought 100W solar panel with MPPT controller. Trying to figure out how/where to connect it. From watching youtube videos it seems the suggestion is to replace the old battery switch with something like mentioned. But I would like to soon change that house bank to lithium. So can I just do the DC-DC conventer instead of an CR? Thanks
@@sailingslapshotyep. Drop in a DC to DC charger that allows you to configure the output charging voltages and you're able to make your second bank whatever you would like. I have all my charging sources go to the lithium bank then when the lithium bank gets to a near full state I connect in my lead acid charging bank via the DC to DC. This keeps it topped up but also acts as a load dump protector for the alternator in the event of a BMS fault in the lithium banks controller. I'm using a Victron Orion TR smart if memory serves correct which can pass about 15 Amps which is a little light to keep the lead bank desulfated but so far it's been doing well enough and has lasted a well so far.
I feel I have spent my whole life trying to understand electrics without much significant success, but your video here has so much value content - I might just make that leap, after multiple watchings and thought. Thanks🙌🏻
What a kind remark, thank you! I found that learning electronics is like climbing a mountain. You don't seem to be getting anywhere but when you look back you realize you've reached the next plateau. One of the most important concepts is voltage drop, which can seem invisible until you get electrons flowing. You get a satisfying 'aha' moment when you realize it is much simpler than you imagined, never far from the basic principle of Ohm's law.
I have recently started redoing the wiring on an old boat and adding an ACR. I had considered installing the ACR in the way you recommended but couldn't find any scientific explanation for this anywhere else. Separating the charging circuit from the switched loads makes absolute sense, as does the position of the ACR. Most instructions have the battery switch also cutting off the charging circuits which made no sense to me as this means the switch has to be on for ANY charging to take place, even solar or wind, which is mostly on all the time.
Very nice system you put together .
Thanks, Shawn!
you really thought this thing through Dave!
That’s sad that I don’t have a friend like you to help me remove the mess in wiring on my boat. So hope I’ll do the good job by myself. At Lest I try to
Very well put together to explain this house vs starter battery arrangement. what size fuses do I need for the ACR?
That's a good question. Fuses in general are there to protect wires, and individual devices like the ACR are chosen to suit the maximum current those wires will carry. Many individual devices will have overload protection hidden inside, but often proprietary internal circuit drawings for those devices are not provided. In the video just after 9:11, we used location deratings, wire diameter, and wire rating to calculate the maximum permissible ampacity we need, from which you choose the fuses. Those fuse are chosen to be at or just below the wire rating ampacity from table VI. There are two ANL fuses on either side of the ACR, close to the battery, which protect the ACR and everything else. If you attach the alternator charging wire to the house bank, the current spike on startup will be far below all of those limits. For a practical example of how wires heat up, feel the wires of your toaster plug after you use it.
Do you have anything on an acr with an outboard that just has a positive and negative feeding the outboard. Thank you I enjoyed this video
That compass marine website link in the video description has loads of detail about how to set up various systems.
Very nice technical schematics and introduction to ACR technology. I have that same setup with a single house batter and starter battery setup. One question i have is around the Dual Circuit battery switch, does the alternator charge the house battery after the engine is running WHEN the switch selector is in the “off” position. Im having trouble figuring out when the alternator is charging the house battery and when it is not based on the switch position. It seems you know this answer, and likely explained it in the video yet i am still struggling to figure this question out as bluesea doesnt describe exactly what happens with the switch is in the “off” position. Thank you in advance!
The switch is on the outgoing side, and there is no switch for any incoming source of current, including the alternator, on my setup. So, whatever is producing charging voltage comes in a back door connection through the terminal strip. If charging voltage from any source is high enough, the ACR closes the switch to also allow the start battery to charge as well. Other systems may work differently, requiring that battery switch to be closed to allow alternator charging.
@@spelunkerd Ok, i ran a little experiment. My house battery voltage dropped below the 12.1 or so volt range therefore the ACR wouldn’t turn on the house battery. so what i did was (and i gambled doing so) was turn on the battery switch to combine and i drove about 45 min to an hour with it on combine. Then when i stopped and switched it off combine and back to on .. my house battery as back to full 14v. I dont know why this worked. Also of note, my application is a 2010 Honda Element with dual battery camping setup. I didn’t build it, the previous owner did and i recently bought the vehicle. So still trying to figure things out. But nonetheless, my house battery charged up again when I switched to ‘combine” and drove the car around for a while. Maybe this was dumb idea.. but it worked!
@@yorwebb Yes, all modern charging sources won't charge unless the recipient battery has a specific lower limit charge, in my case 11.5V. There is also a lockout built into the alternator for about a minute, to allow voltages to stabilize after it first starts working, to prevent voltage spikes from damaging downstream equipment. I briefly discuss that in the last minute or so of this video. Good for you to solve that issue.
Hi. Thank you for this informative video. Now when I get home and have switched the ACR to Off. The green light flashes every 15 seconds standby mode. Will this drain either battery if the boat is not run for a few weeks?? How can I overcome this parasitic draw??
Under a state of no charging, you'll have a parasitic drain about 15mA, which is about 1/3 that of modern cars. So, at that draw if your batteries are OK, you're good for a couple of months or even more. If you leave it for longer than that, you can disconnect the thin black ground wire with the 1A fuse that I show during the video. You could even pull that fuse and tape it to something in the boat to remind yourself of what you did. That will bring your draw from the ACR down to zero and your battery banks will be separated. It won't guarantee that other devices will not drain them, for example clocks and the bilge pump. So, I would monitor the system regularly to see how it behaves. Chronic undercharging is a common cause of battery death.
To be more clear, when I talk about that thin black ground wire for the ACR, I'm referring to the wire with the inline fuse shown in my right hand just after 12:53 of the video.
Awesome video. Excellent job. My question. If using a 5511e battery switch. When you have depleted the house bank battery by sitting on anchrage. When you plan to leave. Why couldn't you just set the 5511e switch to both or (emergency) placing the starting battery and house battery mechanically in parallel. Start you engine, and let the alternator charge both without letting the ACR cycle. Would that eliminate that high in rush current and cycling if your alternator charging wire is terminated on ypur starting battery? TIA
That's a good question. When you tie alternator output to the house bank you don't have to worry about that, so I think you're asking whether you can wire alternator output to the start battery and pair manually when there is a big imbalance between banks. The downside to manually pairing at anchorage is the way you don't want the depleted battery bank to suck down the start battery before the engine fires up. So, fire up the engine first before pairing, and wait for the alternator to kick in and generate the typical 14V. The ACR does a pause automatically by not closing the switch for about 45 seconds, but after that you'll get inrush that can damage the ACR. Mine is only designed to handle 120A, which is a pretty low bar when pairing wildly imbalanced banks. All it takes is one mistake, although I've heard from marine techs that they rarely have to swap in new ones, at least when professionally installed the way I did it. The recommended method shown here allows a hands free simple process with no need to remember to pair or close switches in any particular sequence, so I see no reason to change.
@@spelunkerd thanks for your reply. Let me make a few clarifications. I just completed this upgrade with all new #2 wire. 2 new identical batteries. Dual purpose type group 31. I did leave the original OEM wiring from the alternator to the start battery not knowing about this cycling issue.
My boat, is a fishing boat. We predominantly use it trolling. The kicker motor is wired to the house battery, and does provide charging from a rectifier. Now, on a very rare occasion, we plan on anchoring and fishing over night. This is when the house battery will be the primary power supply. I would never select the switch over to mechanically leave both banks to deplete. It is only when we plan to leave, that i would turn the switch before starting, and leave the switch in that position to charge both batteries which are now in mechanical parallel. By passing the ACR if you will. And avoiding that in rush current. I wonder if this could damage my alternator? BTW, very small alternator with an output of 55amps.
@@arnoldpadilla6471 I don't think you need to worry about the alternator. Most marine switches are "make before break" style, so as long as you don't swing through zero it should be fine. You might think about bringing one of those capacitive jump starters along as a backup (shown at the end).
@@spelunkerd thanks again, please understand. I'm not looking for you to give me an answer i will run with. I am an electrician for over 40 years now. But this caught me off guard. 😆. Just bouncing ideas off you as we like minded people do. Due to the fact that i will probably only find myself in that situation i described a few time a season (annually) i really don't want to alter my factory wiring harness. So another thought. What if i took a blue seas systems battery switch 11001 and used it in reverse if you will. Took my alternator charging output and terminated it at the common. (aka output) and then a wire from #1 to start battery, and a wire from #2 to the house battery. Then prior to start up knowing i have a depleted house battery, i set that switch to #2. Redirecting my charging to the depleted house back. This would only be used a few times a year. For all the other times i use my boat (couple 2 or 3 times a month) it would remain in the #1 position. The 11001 switch would act like a manual selector switch to direct the charging system.
Thanks again for engaging with me. Fun stuff.
So wondering why you did not choose FET based battery isolator instead of the battery combiner?
What an excellent question. For those who read this later, the difference is the way an ACR (combiner) actually pairs the two banks together during charging to allow flow either way, whereas the isolator keeps them separated from retrograde flow even when charging is ongoing. As I'm sure you know, both would work, and both are based on a FET board design. Previously I tried an old school approach by setting up Schottky diodes to charge and isolate the two banks. It worked, although as expected the voltage drop was not as favorable as a more modern isolator MOSFET design. What surprised me was that although isolation prevents a failing bank from directly draining down a strong bank, in practice a failing bank may rob the strong bank of charging current when the charging source is weak! That's because during charging the voltage drop to a parallel weaker bank is greater, so the lion's share of charging current goes to that branch, resulting in poor charging of the good bank. So the advantage of isolation during charging may not be as profound as we think. One thing I like about isolators is the way you could commit a weak charging source like solar power to charge only one bank, reducing the inefficiency of relay cycling. In the end, with three unique sources of charging power, and two banks that are fairly close to similar in size, I decided to go with a battery combiner. For those who stop by, Jeff Cote wrote a series of articles and videos on the topic that are worth looking at.
I have one concern, however, with the ACR on the starter battery circuit and not on the House circuit, it is no longer possible to use the SI connection to automatically disconnect the House bank during the starting phase, which is one of the motivations for using an ACR in the first place. Or am I missing something?
It's been a while since I thought about that but I believe my model does not have that feature anyway. When I start the engine I don't close breakers for other devices until the engine is running, so the chance of voltage spikes damaging sensitive electronics is pretty small. My alternator has a typical 45 second lockout that prevents it from sending extra current and voltage down the line until the engine is running and output is more stable. When the engine is warming up I then turn on other devices in preparation for departure.
Thanks for the feedback. I suppose the best thing for me under circumstances would be to measure the voltage drop or spike during the starting cycle, and then decide. My house batteries are kept in a good state of charge generally as they are permanently connected to solar and wind chargers, so it's more about adding the starter battery to the main charging circuit than about charging the house batteries from the alternater. It's on a yacht, so the motor is only used for very brief intervals, usually for docking.
Very interesting but a lot over my head.
Thanks for your feedback. It's always a challenge to speak to an audience with diverse backgrounds, I tend to err on the side of covering too much ground too fast. I'm happy to speak to questions.
I just bought myself a Kawasaki Vulcan 800 1999 and I have to replace the rear brakes and the front brakes have lots of life on em but there are really sticky my step dad had to go forward and backwards to make it Able to move backwards and the speedometer isn't working any ideas to troubleshoot before buying parts
I'd start by getting a dealers service manual. Kawasaki sell them on their website in pdf form for a reasonable price, and you can keep it for the life of the bike. My speedo was cable drive, and I did a video on swapping it out. The most common cause is a broken cable in this old design, but it is easy to verify before buying parts (shown in the video). I also did a video on swapping front brake pads, and another on inspecting rear drums. It would be easy to lift a wheel to decide where it is sticking, rear or front. The only thing tying those two symptoms together would be an issue with assembly of the rear axle, where the speedo cable dovetails with the axle. If it's a rear axle problem, it might improve by removing the cable there. Good luck!
By the way, on my bike it is normal to be a little 'stuck' when the bike has been sitting for days. Specifically, when I pull in the clutch to roll the bike without starting the engine, I have to rock it back and forth to break the stiction free, following which it rolls normally. That happens in neutral or in gear, clutch in or out. It's a normal idiosyncrasy of the Vulcan, I think in the clutch or transmission. The brake pads never stick, if you have sticking of the front caliper, it will need more investigation.
How does this work for a single engine outboard?
It's a general system which I suppose might work with an outboard, although the magneto in an outboard is unlikely to adequately charge a second battery.
@@spelunkerd will the ACR charge the second battery enough on a single engine outboard?
@@A5JDZK I don't think so. The ACR is a simple relay, it directs power but doesn't add anything beyond what the charging source is giving. A magneto is a weak charging source even for a single battery.
@@spelunkerd Got it. Thanks for the info and reply. Looks like I'll still need a NOCO Genius to charge the batteries when the boat sits.
@@A5JDZK I have a NOCO and although I like it, it does not have enough juice to fully charge a battery. You're better off with a trickle charger from shore power, or a solar charging system with a solar power management system. Up here in Canada I found that winter charging with solar doesn't work very well, especially when my mast throws shade onto the panel.
Very good but just to much information please make it simple for us ignorant people
Watch, then watch again. Isolate on each step as you need to. I extracted an action item list for my boat. Great detail here.