Second Friday Lecture: The Lincoln Marriage: Heaven or Hell?
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Mr. Steve Rogstad discusses the Lincoln marriage remains one of the most controversial areas of study among scholars. Viewed in both sympathetic and critical perspectives, the marriage has been described as both a hell on earth for Abraham Lincoln and a compassionate and loving union. A recent indictment of Mary Lincoln portrays her as a person who was dishonest as her husband was honest. It was a pairing of two complex and opposite natures, which both complemented and opposed each other.
www.TheCivilWarMuseum.org
As a student of Lincoln all my adult life , I must say that was an excellent lecture! Thank You!
Wonderful...Wonderful analysis. Her interactions helped to push him to be as great as he was for the country.
Regarding the off hand remark about the uncountable number of servants the Lincolns went through: I was watching a virtual tour of the Lincoln Springfield house and the tour guide mentioned that the Lincolns were able to keep a servant girl for about a year, which was pretty typical for the young, usually immigrant girls who took on these positions. No one was expecting to get much more than a year's worth of work out of any of them. Rogstag betrays himself by making this fact something negative about Mary Lincoln. Incidentally, Mary Lincoln's response to Herndon's writings was to call them 'a pack of lies.' And that the biggest mistake she ever made in her life was not to have made a friend of William Herndon.
what does it mean to be here (Lincoln domestic problems) in a film critic (Vertigo by Hitchcock)???????????
Half siblings not step siblings they shared the same father.
Very interesting and informative !
Excellent talk , very real and authentic both in terms of content and delivery. Very engaging, I just happened on the talk and I am very pleased I did. May I suggest that there is more to be extrapolated from some areas that were just barely touched upon that would be very interesting to hear more about. Great work, well done and thank you
SUCH AS?????????
That's what books are for. Check out Michael Burlingame and Jason Emerson.
Thank you so much for your authentic and humorous videos. I’m about to start my first medically supervised Anavar cycle 😀. I’m in menopause so I am relating to your videos about hormones etc. keep going I hope your channel explodes 🥰
Superb work Sir ... Interesting and very intriguing
Bravo! Eyes open wide and much appreciate your presentation.
Sada Thompson was excellent as Mary Lincoln and was quite "real" in her portrayal of her. Sandburgs Lincoln for the time period was an outstanding series.
One story I heard about their marriage which makes sense is this. Lincoln was having a hard time committing to marriage. He had already backed out at the last minute, so she seduced him. Afterwards she told him, now you need to marry me. I don’t know that I’m pregnant, but I could be. It’s your responsibility. After they married, their first child was born 3 days short of 9 months later.
Excellent !!!
Saw a video post of Jackie, and strangely, Jackie Kennedy was as distant from President Jack as Mary. Jackie battled to keep a relationship with someone who never treated her well. Jackie was a huge asset to Kennedy but Jack did not respect his marriage vows...all in public scrutiny. As a woman, the marriage was terribly painful, before death and after death.
The tragedy details of both Jackie and Mary are eerily similar.
I don't think the Jackie and Mary todd lincoln are similar cuz Jackie was not mentally ill but I've read they both spoke fluent French and formal educations but the women are nothing alike
With reference to Mary being a grass widow to Lincoln, many women at that time and some even today are forced to have such marriages. Mary Livingstone née Moffat only saw her husband very rarely. Thousands of migrant workers have to leave wife and children at home, seeing them for maybe 2 weeks in a year - it is what it is. Still to have a husband present but largely absent is not quite the same thing. A mature rational woman would have to carve out a life for herself to ensure a successful marriage. ML's mental health would certainly not allowed her to cope. Very interesting talk. Thank you.
Mary lost three children. Before that she lost her mother and indeed her step mother abused her. Her father largely ignored her. After all this not to mention the war her husband is killed beside her. If that's not enough to make you crazy what is. I take Elizabeth Keckleys book on Mary more true of her than herendon.
Mary Todd Lincoln and President Abraham Lincoln were both fascinating abd politically saavy, Abe Lincoln enjoyed his children, good books and intellectuals to discuss politics of that era.
To be fair, Lincoln was not the picture of mental health himself. Several people described him as suffering long periods of “melancholy,” which today would seem to fit criteria for Major Depressive Disorder.
To be fair, there's a difference between depression & being an insufferable lunatic who humiliates everyone & makes everyone miserable.
There's countless stories of Mary humiliating Lincoln in front of others. She threw a cup of tea on him once. Another time she threw coffee on him. She made fun of his looks in front of others & how he dressed.
She often would threw tantrums if she saw a woman speaking to Lincoln. Lincoln even had to ask her permission of who he was allowed to speak to at parties.
Never heard Lincoln treating Mary like this, despite his depression.
So STOP saying "to be fair". There's quite a BIG difference between Mary's behavior & Lincoln's.
@@kleeamd8274 And that means he wasn’t depressed? Do you not think it’s remotely possible that both partners in a marriage can have mental health issues? I don’t see your point.
@@kellydiver
Try learning reading comprehension.
I actually acknowledged Lincoln was depressed several times in my original post
OOPS🤣🤣🤣🤣
Furthermore, as I said before, there's a difference between dealing with someone who is depressed & dealing with someone being an insufferable shrew like Mary.
Funny how when a man abuses a woman, it's the worst thing in the world, but when a woman is the abuser, people like you find every way to excuse it, and say things like, "to be fair, Lincoln was depressed"
As if depression compares with the physical & mental cruelty of an abusive lunatic??
I'd rather deal with a depressed person like Lincoln any day, over an abusive, nagging, hateful, mean-spirited hag like Mary.
And despite his depression, Lincoln NEVER physically/mentally abused Mary the way Mary physically/mentally abused Lincoln.
Ever consider that Lincoln's depression was in a large part caused, or greatly exacerbated, by daily life with an insufferable, miserable witch??
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT TEA in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT COFFEE in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln slapping Mary in the face with a piece of wood, like how she did to him after he did not build a fire quick enough for her liking
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln calling his wife ugly & ridiculing her looks & manner of dress, the way Mary did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary out of the house with a broomstick, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary around the yard with a KNIFE, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln causing 2 bloody injuries to Mary's head, the way Mary twice did to him
So STOP comparing Lincoln's depression to Mary's ABUSE & saying "to be fair".
Since when is physical/mental abuse excused & considered "fair", just because the victim of it suffers from depression?!?
GMAFB!!!
Again, a good portion of his depression was very likely the result from dealing with her constant abuse, humiliation & control she heaped upon him.
So spare me your 🐃💩
@@kellydiver
Try learning reading comprehension.
I actually acknowledged Lincoln was depressed several times in my original post
OOPS🤣🤣🤣🤣
Furthermore, as I said before, there's a difference between dealing with someone who is depressed & dealing with someone being an insufferable shrew like Mary.
Funny how when a man abuses a woman, it's the worst thing in the world, but when a woman is the abuser, people like you find every way to excuse it, and say things like, "to be fair, Lincoln was depressed"
As if depression compares with the physical & mental cruelty of an abusive lunatic??
I'd rather deal with a depressed person like Lincoln any day, over an abusive, nagging, hateful, mean-spirited crone like Mary.
And despite his depression, Lincoln NEVER physically/mentally abused Mary the way Mary physically/mentally abused Lincoln.
Ever consider that Lincoln's depression was in a large part caused, or greatly exacerbated, by daily life with such an insufferable, miserable woman?
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT TEA in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT COFFEE in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln slapping Mary in the face with a piece of wood, like how she did to him after he did not build a fire quick enough for her liking
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln calling his wife ugly & ridiculing her looks & manner of dress, the way Mary did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary out of the house with a broomstick, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary around the yard with a KNIFE, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln causing 2 bloody injuries to Mary's head, the way Mary twice did to him
So STOP comparing Lincoln's depression to Mary's ABUSE & saying "to be fair".
Since when is physical/mental abuse excused & considered "fair", just because the victim of it suffers from depression?!?
GMAFB!!!
Again, a good portion of his depression was very likely the result from dealing with her constant abuse, humiliation & control she heaped upon him.
So spare me your BS
@@kellydiver
Try learning reading comprehension.
I actually acknowledged Lincoln was depressed several times in my original post
OOPS🤣
Furthermore, as I said before, there's a difference between dealing with someone who is depressed & dealing with someone being an insufferable shrew like Mary.
Funny how when a man abuses a woman, it's the worst thing in the world, but when a woman is the abuser, people like you find every way to excuse it, and say things like, "to be fair, Lincoln was depressed"
As if depression compares with the physical & mental cruelty of an abusive psycho??
I'd rather deal with a depressed person like Lincoln any day, over an abusive, nagging, hateful, mean-spirited crone like Mary.
And despite his depression, Lincoln NEVER physically/mentally abused Mary the way Mary physically/mentally abused Lincoln.
Ever consider that Lincoln's depression was in a large part caused, or greatly exacerbated, by daily life with such an insufferable, miserable woman?
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT TEA in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln throwing SCALDING HOT COFFEE in Mary's face, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln slapping Mary in the face with a piece of wood, like how she did to him after he did not build a fire quick enough for her liking
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln calling his wife ugly & ridiculing her looks & manner of dress, the way Mary did to him
I don't recall hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary out of the house with a broomstick, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln chasing Mary around the yard with a knife, the way she did to him
I don't recall ever hearing about Lincoln causing 2 bloody injuries to Mary's head, the way Mary twice did to him
So STOP comparing Lincoln's depression to Mary's ABUSE & saying "to be fair".
Since when is physical/mental abuse excused & considered "fair", just because the victim of it suffers from depression?!?
GMAFB!!!
Again, a good portion of his depression was very likely the result from dealing with her constant abuse, humiliation & control she heaped upon him.
So spare me your BS
Thank you for posting!
Well, they did love each other!
Lincoln and Mary Todd were both remarkable in their own right
Mary Todd Lincoln could of had any man in the world but she loved Abraham Lincoln full of heartbreak and sadness and grief and Abraham Lincoln loved her?
Mary Todd Lincoln was the reason Lincoln made it to the Presidency she was the driving force. Sandburgs Lincoln is a great series. The book Team of Rivals--doris kearns goodwin
Completely enjoyed your discussion on the Marriage of Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd Lincoln.
I have been a follower of Abraham and Mary Lincoln for many years.
I am originally from Illinois and spent family vacations in New Salem. Springfield and other spots. Also was fortunate to travel to Lexington and visit Mary Todd's home there.
New insights and suggestions for new books to read. I recall many years ago reading " Love is Eternal" by Irving Stone.
Thank you for your research and additional thoughts on the union of Abraham & Mary Todd Lincoln.
Mary todd lincoln was formally educated and spoke french as well as english well versed in politics she was quite intelligent and very saavy.
You said that everything we know about the early Lincoln is from his law partner, yet your first picture was from Ida Tarbell. Why does no one give Ida credit? That law partner didn't like her either. She got tons of information no one had before.
When Lincoln's and his wife child died, she seeked seances and pyscics the dead to comminicate with her child. Lincoln allowed his wife to have these practices in the white house. SO WHAT DO YOU ALL SAY ABOUT THAT?
@ beverlynielsen860
They were people who were typical
of their era. Queen Victoria also went
to at least one seance to attempt to
communicate with Albert.
There was a lot of pseudo-science
during that period of time. The
industrial revolution and emerging
information shook society to its
core.
Are you a history buff? Did this kind of physic and seances exists back further than President Lincoln's time?
@@beverlynielsen860
That sort of thing began to rear it's head
in France, prior to the American Revolution.
Ben Franklin wrote about it when he was the ambassador to France.
It has always existed but only practiced by
closed groups that (rightfully) feared arrest
and prosecution from the Christian church
in Europe.
(btw: Neither Judaism or Islam are pro-witch,
pro-necromancer any more than Christianity)
@@beverlynielsen860The Bible makes references to mediums and as Christian’s we are to stay away from them.
Nothing compared to having a crackhead there😂
This was riveting! But knowing all these things now are we convinced that his wife didn't have anything to do with his assassination
Yes.
President Abe Lincoln was loving and devoted to Mary Todd Lincoln. Mary was alone for 6 months of the year for petes sakes she had to take care of a large home and small children,it was hard but she did what she had to do with firece courage.
Has anyone ever heard about Lincoln's dream on 4/14/1865. Where he's walking through the white house and sees a casket, and hears mourners. He ask them, "who has died?" They tell him the president has died, he's been assassinated. He awakes and goes to the theater. It sounds like he had suffered enough and wanted to die.
This is not right I make a statement and it’s not put up someone says he’s gay and it is posted. That was a lie
Excellent, thank you.
He hasn't spoken there since 2009? He'll never be back.
This is why Thomas Jefferson burned all personal correspondence because his private life was just that his private life. If those letters had survived the "historians" and "scholars" and "writers" would be picking over the bones of his marriage and private life.
Mary is an enigma. If anyone loved and understood her, it was her husband. He had great strength of character which allowed him to stay with her come what May. My comment about her. She was a cheat! I think she was like that as a means of accumulating things that made her feel better about herself. This I can understand!
Read the book "Team of Rivals"
They had good cnversations about politics, I heard.
Interesting. Btw, Cache is pronounced like „Cash.“
If A. Lincoln was here today, I'd climb him like a tree. 🔥🔥🔥
Lincoln and Mary son and seances? Is that a rumor or myth
Wow my comment was censored because I disagreed with the speaker about taking down statues.
You can tell this guy's political leanings when he refers to Bill O'Reilly assuming his audience knows him as a prolific author rather than a right-wing, woman-harrassing ghoul.
I don’t believe much of this. It’s mostly his opinion, and anyone who uses Bill O’Reilley as a frame of reference loses credibility.
I think the word you want to use for Mary Lincoln is INSUFFERABLE.
Reminds me of a more recent first lady who still lives today
Mary todd lincoln was a devoted mother and loyal wife to abe lincoln
Hernon disliked Mary Todd but that is ok,she was far more educated than he was and came from a better family most likey, Herndon was insanely jealous of Mary Lincoln. Mary ran a tight ship and wanted her children to be happy and successful. She was not perfect. However, Mary Todd respectfully was the best person for that marriage to President Abe Lincoln.
Abe Lincoln did not get easily elevated, unfortunately. Sadly for Mary Lincoln, she did.
Loved everything about it
I don't
@bryonchalisbois--if its true--what is your point? That man gay or straight was one of the greatest presidents who ever held the highest office without any formal education as a matter of fact he was self educated up until he was practicing law and then on to his presidency
Dale Carnegie wrote a book entitled, "The Unknown Lincon." (1932) He recounted that Lincoln & Mary were to be married in January of 1841, but Lincoln got cold feet & left Mary waiting at the altar. They eventually reconciled and were married in November of 1842. Other accounts I've read don't mention this incident. It seems like Mary would've had a difficult time forgiving Lincoln for something like that, so I don't know if it's true.
It is mostly not true. Lincoln did not leave Mary at the alter. He felt that he was not good enough for her (and Mary's blue blooded family constantly told her so). They were apart for about 1.5 years. Michael Burlingame and Jason Emerson are excellent biographers that explain this well.
I dont know that mary was caustic as she was very people smart-- she knew who was honest and who wasnt
Poor Lincoln. He had two wars to deal with. No wonder he had mental health problems too. Children dying. Mother died. Father was not nice. He really had a tough life.
Abraham Lincoln had to be a loving father and mother to Mary Todd Lincoln and there children?
Its posdible Mary Todd may have suffered bi polar disorders
Herndon never liked mary todd lincoln from the start
I believe he was gay
Great presentation 👏
What mothers that love go through that love there families
Most likely BPD or Covert NPD
Probably.
If you say so
This Mary from Russian
Royal family Nothing to
do with Abraham Lincoln
I toured the Todd house-
This Mary from
Russian royal family
Nothing to do with Lincoln
With adr, being a racist does not change with either the environs or age. A racist is a racist is a racist. The absolute of “good” stays just that
It absolutely does change with the environs or the age. How you define a comment or action as racist would have been completely different in the 19th century than it is today.
Who cares, they’re dead, buried and gone. What you should be asking is, is your marriage heaven or hell, if you are married. And how many marriages have you been through.
Oh shut up. They were 2 historical figures. People have the right to discuss their lives, given their place in American history.
STOP policing what other people discuss. What business is it of YOURS??
Why are you even watching it if you're so uninterested??
Never fails that there's always some simpleton like you who tries to dictate what other people should or shouldn't be doing🙄🥱🤡
Obviously alot of people care. Glad you are able to tell people how to live. I agree it's good to lookat your life though.
No doubt
Serious question. Did she have some dwarfism in her?
As Abe was 6ft 4 inches, I think everyone would look short standing next to him...
Add some acromegaly (as part of Marfan Syndrome), et voilà, big ears, big nose, long hands. That makes Mary look even more petit in her features.
Any woman of that era would of been a dwarf standing next to or married to Abe Lincoln
The south had every right to secede. The issue went back to Jackson's presidency & involve northern imposed tariffs. And England was courting the confederacy.
To this day, England still regards us as their colony. A Rothschild agent started the KKK. Victor's history is suspect. European Infil-TRAITORS.
Oh and the guy talking
Gay as well
I don’t think so, but what kind of person makes comments about others’ sexuality when it has nothing to do with the topic. Many men are closet bisexuals, in fact, most of them.
Get real and buy a life
Lincoln like Obama gay so no wonder Mary went off
Nonsense on both counts.
That hoax about Obama is one of the most ridiculous longstanding rumors ever. The only thing more ridiculous is the one that Michelle is a man. Such efforts at smearing the Obamas make obvious the insanity of the right wing nuts.
Get a life
What is your point if he was or was not--make a point with facts not nonsense
why would you concentrate if he was gay shouldn't your concern be about if he was an effective leader because both Obama and Lincoln were great leaders--FACT!
Certainly, Mary must have had some good traits!?
She dearly loved her
children. Almost every
day she visited the
soldiers in the DC
hospitals to write
letters for them, etc.
She did not publicize
her dedication to those
men.
Excellent loving and devoted mother loyal wife to Abe lincoln
Sadly she lost her young children and spouse to their early demise with the exception of Todd Lincoln
What a waste of space. Utterly useless. One of the worst presentations ever on any of the Lincolns.