you left one of the weirdest cases about necromancy in 14, the arr alchemist quest. it seems that it was posible to bring back the soul from the aetherial sea to the body without side effects eveen if it was for a really brief period of time
Nicely made video. Though I would argue that the Ancestral Spirits belief isn’t necessarily incompatible with the metaphysics of the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream. Since the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream is full of souls and memories, I think it is reasonable to suspect that some (or at least parts of souls) would hang around longer than others, and essentially function as the location that Ancestral Spirits would hang around (and thus could potentially be communed with). Also I am pretty sure the “the Flow” the Voidesent describe is just their way of describing the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream. Furthermore, I don’t think direct reincarnation is the only process the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream operates under, as Montichaigne explained in his lecture during Endwalker, in addition to direct reincarnation, it seems like souls can also be broken down and “coalesce with that of others, and create souls anew.”, i.e. entirely new original souls can be made from the breakdown of older souls. As it definitely doesn’t seem like the game frames the total number of distinct souls (dead and/or alive) existing on Etheirys as a fixed amount (and thus a zero-sum operation). Also if I recall correctly, in the same live letter where the devs stated that Hydaelyn/Venat burned through her soul(s) (and basically became part of the ambient aether of the planet as The Watcher describes), Yoshida said that in his opinion, he doesn’t think Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus will be interested in reincarnating, so perhaps their souls will be broken down to make new ones instead. Also considering how many Buddhist themes and concepts were an integral part of Endwalker, I definitely don’t think Hydaelyn/Venat’s fate is meant to be interpreted as a bad thing or that she is getting screwed over. Also I suppose the original Saint Shiva’s soul would be considered another soul that skirted the rules, since Hraesvelgr seems to be speaking quite literally when he says that Shiva’s soul is bonded with his (and is part of why he states Ysayle’s Shiva cannot be hosting/embodying the original Saint Shiva). Also would Amon be considered one of the few people who succeeded where many other necromancers failed? Because IIRC the lore frames Amon’s resurrection of Xande as the real deal (as in he literally brought back to life the original Xande’s soul, and didn’t just merely create a clone with the memories of Xande. Which if I understand the lore correctly, Xande legitimately coming back from the dead is part of what leads to Xande having his existential breakdown).
That's a very good question about Xande (And good points overall!), and indeed you might be right, although it's hard to tell what actually happened there or how. We only get a limited second-hand account there, and I can imagine a few ways that Amon might've done that without actually pulling off a soul revival.
I assumed the Lopporits didn't have souls based on the star giving souls to the beings that follow the laws of nature, but I'm not surprised that Venat gave her army of familiars souls due to the fact that as Hydaelyn she was the will of the star and what determined what did and didn't get a soul.
It's hard to determine how long it takes for a soul to finish the wash/rinse cycle in the sea. Mostly because they are so fast and loose with time progression in game. Half the time Koji Fox makes it sound like Asahi died last Tuesday. I really like how they have set creation mythology that differs by culture and we get to find out through our travels that they're all quite wrong. Especially the story of the twelve that says that Hydaelyn created the dragons. I enjoyed the Oronir lore lessons regarding their origins. It seems to indicate that we aren't the first time that the source's shard of Azem was promoted by Hydaelyn and placed on the world. They indicated that Nhaama (the moon goddess) sent Azim, who they state was a Xaela Au Ra, to unite the tribes and start their way of life in motion.
So on creation magic as a skillset. The loporrits as Venat’s legacy know how it works and apparently can teach versions of it as non corruptive summoning if I remember the ragnarock launch scene right.
They know it, but are also very restricted in its usage and pretty big sticklers for rules and due process. They're unlikely to use it to such a degree that we have to crack out and relitigate the question of 'when does an arcane construct get a soul'.
Ok but what about the Hells guard. They are supposed to guard hell. Singular. I've walways imagined it as a void portal they misinterpreted, but ive yet to actually read anything on their specifics.
You're right, I did miss the Hellsguard! They're named like that because they believe the volcanic mountain (or possibly mountains, I'm unclear) that they live near is a gate to the underworld. However, it doesn't seem like they believe that very strongly, because it's never come up even among the people who are really culturally ABOUT being Hellsguard.
Perhaps it's significant that everyone in the Aitiascope has unfinished business with the WoL. Whether they love you and want to help, or are still holding a grudge. Or maybe it isn't significant, after all it wouldn't make sense for someone you didn't know to appear in the dungeon. But maybe that strong desire is what keeps their souls so coherent after death.
I feel like the exceptions there are Amon and Asahi. Amon didn't really have unfinished business and was ready to die. Asahi had unfinished business, granted, but... not with us.
@@EinDose I really like Asahi's character and hope they do more with him somehow, I feel like his conclusion in Stormblood was good but there was room for more. He had every reason to have unfinished business with us, but wasn't interested in that moment. I think we can get a good bit more out of his character.
How are the ancestor spirts incompatible? If a soul could chose not to pass on and remain on the world(backed by an amount of their peoples belief). They are very possible. There are even ingame examples of this happening.
I think he told them wrong as part of his plan to make them see summoning and other religions as bad. Since religion is band in Garlemald even if they're supposed to keep the Emperor in high reverence. Though knowing the Garleans they probably would find a way to get all "My religion is the true religion and different than you filthy heathen savages religion." Since it is kind of hard to use the Burn as false proof of what happens if you summon a primal as a reason to fight a war that's based on not only a need to get back at those who bullied them in the past, but to also teach everyone else that your way is the correct way.
Actually worth noting that Garlemald didn't have a state religion at all, they went all 'enlightened atheist'. They just... somehow also had cultural afterlife beliefs anyway. It's a bit unclear where Phantom Train factors in there.
Great vid, minus comparing Keepers of the Moon to aliens from that boring space show. But yeah all our bunny pals have souls, bless you Tweetingway. May you return one day to answer more questions. And as a joke Emet would teach the wrong stuff. He barely saw them alive so of course when they ask he'd brush them aside with the easy answer. Like when as a kid you ask your parents too many questions and they just want you to shut up so then can sleep. Funny how split down the middle people are about Hyldian's death. Those they see her as a heartless ends justify the means person view it as almost too good for her, and those that see her as a motherly figure mourn her never returning. I view it more as a oh good we don't need her mucking about anymore. I view her as a failure as a mother figure but still needed being. Also I could go on for ages about how I hate how people see her as using info from her to make us her chosen it mostly comes down to me wishing the dev team just out right side G'raha's bad future he's from got deleted but no had to do a lode stone story about them so they could eat their cake and have it too but that's a topic for another day.
Babe wake up, the new Cleretic lore video just dropped
you left one of the weirdest cases about necromancy in 14, the arr alchemist quest. it seems that it was posible to bring back the soul from the aetherial sea to the body without side effects eveen if it was for a really brief period of time
Which is, funnily enough, in-keeping with the rules from Tactics Ogre that Palace of the Dead seems to use!
Oh my Twelve, The Sharlayan Forum is the UAC.
Nicely made video. Though I would argue that the Ancestral Spirits belief isn’t necessarily incompatible with the metaphysics of the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream. Since the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream is full of souls and memories, I think it is reasonable to suspect that some (or at least parts of souls) would hang around longer than others, and essentially function as the location that Ancestral Spirits would hang around (and thus could potentially be communed with).
Also I am pretty sure the “the Flow” the Voidesent describe is just their way of describing the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream.
Furthermore, I don’t think direct reincarnation is the only process the Aetherial Sea/Lifestream operates under, as Montichaigne explained in his lecture during Endwalker, in addition to direct reincarnation, it seems like souls can also be broken down and “coalesce with that of others, and create souls anew.”, i.e. entirely new original souls can be made from the breakdown of older souls. As it definitely doesn’t seem like the game frames the total number of distinct souls (dead and/or alive) existing on Etheirys as a fixed amount (and thus a zero-sum operation).
Also if I recall correctly, in the same live letter where the devs stated that Hydaelyn/Venat burned through her soul(s) (and basically became part of the ambient aether of the planet as The Watcher describes), Yoshida said that in his opinion, he doesn’t think Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus will be interested in reincarnating, so perhaps their souls will be broken down to make new ones instead.
Also considering how many Buddhist themes and concepts were an integral part of Endwalker, I definitely don’t think Hydaelyn/Venat’s fate is meant to be interpreted as a bad thing or that she is getting screwed over.
Also I suppose the original Saint Shiva’s soul would be considered another soul that skirted the rules, since Hraesvelgr seems to be speaking quite literally when he says that Shiva’s soul is bonded with his (and is part of why he states Ysayle’s Shiva cannot be hosting/embodying the original Saint Shiva).
Also would Amon be considered one of the few people who succeeded where many other necromancers failed? Because IIRC the lore frames Amon’s resurrection of Xande as the real deal (as in he literally brought back to life the original Xande’s soul, and didn’t just merely create a clone with the memories of Xande. Which if I understand the lore correctly, Xande legitimately coming back from the dead is part of what leads to Xande having his existential breakdown).
That's a very good question about Xande (And good points overall!), and indeed you might be right, although it's hard to tell what actually happened there or how. We only get a limited second-hand account there, and I can imagine a few ways that Amon might've done that without actually pulling off a soul revival.
I assumed the Lopporits didn't have souls based on the star giving souls to the beings that follow the laws of nature, but I'm not surprised that Venat gave her army of familiars souls due to the fact that as Hydaelyn she was the will of the star and what determined what did and didn't get a soul.
It's hard to determine how long it takes for a soul to finish the wash/rinse cycle in the sea. Mostly because they are so fast and loose with time progression in game. Half the time Koji Fox makes it sound like Asahi died last Tuesday.
I really like how they have set creation mythology that differs by culture and we get to find out through our travels that they're all quite wrong. Especially the story of the twelve that says that Hydaelyn created the dragons.
I enjoyed the Oronir lore lessons regarding their origins. It seems to indicate that we aren't the first time that the source's shard of Azem was promoted by Hydaelyn and placed on the world. They indicated that Nhaama (the moon goddess) sent Azim, who they state was a Xaela Au Ra, to unite the tribes and start their way of life in motion.
As always… A fantastic video! Thank you.
So on creation magic as a skillset.
The loporrits as Venat’s legacy know how it works and apparently can teach versions of it as non corruptive summoning if I remember the ragnarock launch scene right.
They know it, but are also very restricted in its usage and pretty big sticklers for rules and due process. They're unlikely to use it to such a degree that we have to crack out and relitigate the question of 'when does an arcane construct get a soul'.
Ok but what about the Hells guard. They are supposed to guard hell. Singular. I've walways imagined it as a void portal they misinterpreted, but ive yet to actually read anything on their specifics.
You're right, I did miss the Hellsguard! They're named like that because they believe the volcanic mountain (or possibly mountains, I'm unclear) that they live near is a gate to the underworld. However, it doesn't seem like they believe that very strongly, because it's never come up even among the people who are really culturally ABOUT being Hellsguard.
@@EinDoseWho knows maybe we go to Farreach in 8.0 and get to figure out what their whole deal is.
Perhaps it's significant that everyone in the Aitiascope has unfinished business with the WoL. Whether they love you and want to help, or are still holding a grudge. Or maybe it isn't significant, after all it wouldn't make sense for someone you didn't know to appear in the dungeon. But maybe that strong desire is what keeps their souls so coherent after death.
I feel like the exceptions there are Amon and Asahi. Amon didn't really have unfinished business and was ready to die. Asahi had unfinished business, granted, but... not with us.
@@EinDose I really like Asahi's character and hope they do more with him somehow, I feel like his conclusion in Stormblood was good but there was room for more. He had every reason to have unfinished business with us, but wasn't interested in that moment. I think we can get a good bit more out of his character.
How are the ancestor spirts incompatible? If a soul could chose not to pass on and remain on the world(backed by an amount of their peoples belief). They are very possible. There are even ingame examples of this happening.
It's true that ghosts exist, but not really in... non-vengeful forms.
I think he told them wrong as part of his plan to make them see summoning and other religions as bad. Since religion is band in Garlemald even if they're supposed to keep the Emperor in high reverence. Though knowing the Garleans they probably would find a way to get all "My religion is the true religion and different than you filthy heathen savages religion."
Since it is kind of hard to use the Burn as false proof of what happens if you summon a primal as a reason to fight a war that's based on not only a need to get back at those who bullied them in the past, but to also teach everyone else that your way is the correct way.
Actually worth noting that Garlemald didn't have a state religion at all, they went all 'enlightened atheist'. They just... somehow also had cultural afterlife beliefs anyway. It's a bit unclear where Phantom Train factors in there.
Great vid, minus comparing Keepers of the Moon to aliens from that boring space show. But yeah all our bunny pals have souls, bless you Tweetingway. May you return one day to answer more questions. And as a joke Emet would teach the wrong stuff. He barely saw them alive so of course when they ask he'd brush them aside with the easy answer. Like when as a kid you ask your parents too many questions and they just want you to shut up so then can sleep. Funny how split down the middle people are about Hyldian's death. Those they see her as a heartless ends justify the means person view it as almost too good for her, and those that see her as a motherly figure mourn her never returning. I view it more as a oh good we don't need her mucking about anymore. I view her as a failure as a mother figure but still needed being. Also I could go on for ages about how I hate how people see her as using info from her to make us her chosen it mostly comes down to me wishing the dev team just out right side G'raha's bad future he's from got deleted but no had to do a lode stone story about them so they could eat their cake and have it too but that's a topic for another day.