For wrestling fans who grew up hearing a heel / face commentator team who bicker since the 1980's, having a single person on commentary who is chill about the whole thing is like a breath of fresh air.
***** ROH was pretty good back in 2006-2007 when I was still watching it. When their matches became nothing but high spot showcases is when I stopped watching.
@@VolumedMusicMan Yeah but "pure sport" doesn’t draw, that's why ROH was never able to draw more than 3000 fans on its own for 15+ years (the only reason they are doing a little better now is due to the association with New Japan). A lot of casual fans thought it was ridiculous to treat wrestling as a sport, in a way it can almost be interpreted as an insult to the audience's intelligence since most people (even in the 50s and 60’s) went to wrestling matches to be entertained first. WWF was the smartest of all promotion since it targeted these casual fans and sold its product as being entertainment; only a very small minority of people can sit and enjoy a 60 minutes Broadway full of headlocks and rest holds, the business had to change or it would have stayed a low level niche on the same level as the circus or the Harlem globetrotters.
Jonathan Turbide I see were you are coming from. The entertainment/carny characters: for eg: The AWA had mad dog vachon, Baron Von Raschke, and the crusher kepping the fans entertained. While Bockwinkle, Gagne and Robinson played puresport. It went hand in hand. Until now with more “entertainment” and less sport with mega high spots.
saw Antonino Rocca, Haystacks Calhoun, Ricky Starr, The Sheik, wrestle many years ago. was in grammar school. late 50's. It was an "under the stars" match @ Newton NJ HS. The ring was set up outside.
Great Black and White photos from their matches in the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame at the Chicago International Amphitheater Mezzanine level SW Corner of the building!
Édouard Carpentier He was a super baby face who dazzled spectators with his agility, and implemented the turnbuckles, and flying head scissors. He is considered innovative in that respect.
Incredible wrestling from two of the best. Carpenter had an awesome physique! Nice to see the continuity between amateur wrestling and professional wrestling.
6:00 to 6:28 is one of my favorite parts, Carpartier's "junk" being put on display for the snickering men in the front row, while Verne enjoys the alpha-masculine feeling sensation of forcibly driving his manhood into the upper back of the humiliated Carpartier, suspending himself in mid air, "flexing" himself against Ed's aching back...Tell me Verne wasn't physically enjoying it...and I'll call ya a liar, lol
Gagne left Chicago promotion in 58'. Then he formed the AWA, awarded himself as the world champ when NWA champ Pat O'Connor "kayfabed" no showed the match.Verne came back to Chicago in 1966 and became business partners with Dick the Brusier and Wilbur Snyder. Bob Luce was frontman promoter.
This is actually a very important piece of wrestling footage. The NWA World Heavyweight Championship had a lot of controversy surrounding it around this time, different territories were recognizing different travelling Champions when promoted Eddie Quinn of Montreal (Carpentier's territory) left the NWA. Subsequently the NWA eventually stopped recognizing Carpentier as Champion, and started recognizing Thesz after he defeated Carpentier by Disqualification (very possibly another controversial finish). Alternative champions started to spring up when they defeated Carpentier, though none were officially recognized by the NWA. Basically, promoters wanted to be able to promote one of their guys to be Champion and therefore sell more tickets. This match here appears to me to be somewhat of a "screwjob" at the end, probably Carpentier had been told it was going to be a Double Count Out and Verne rolled in to win the match and title (though they hashed it somewhat). Obviously though, the title was never going to be accepted with credibility to the masses to have happened by a Count Out. May 2, 1958. Thank you for uploading.
Chicago, Illinois: Friday, May 2, 1958 (International Amphitheater) … World Heavyweight Champion Edouard Carpentier and Verne Gagne drew (2/3) (Carpentier won the first fall in 23:30, Gagne won the second in 6: 18, double countout in 12:18)
Omaha, Nebraska: Saturday, August 9, 1958 (Municipal Stadium) … Verne Gagne b. Edouard Carpentier to capture the World Heavyweight Title (2/3) (Carpentier won the first fall in 17:03, Gagne won the second with a sleeperhold in 11:25, Gagne won the third with a jackknife in 12:15) (special referee: Fred Kohler)
+ddenuci The NWA belt was awarded back to Thesz because Montreal promoter Eddie Quinn quit the NWA 1958, thus cancelling Edouard's claim to it. Yet, Edouard dropped the world title to Kowalski, Gagne and Blasie. Thus breaking the undisputed claim.
Real wrestling, like it should be. Even though the match turned out how I would have expected, is the type of wrestling we should see today. Both of these men deserve a victory sign, regardless of the referees decision.
Two absolute legends in the ring. Bronco Lubich had flown in from Dallas to officiate this important match but he got hold of some bad shellfish that day at lunch and was unable to answer the bell so to speak.
Edouard Carpentier will always be a God here in Québec, a larger than life athlete. This is a terrific match since it shows that he could mat wrestle with the best of them, and that he wasn't just an acrobat with fancy looking moves. Terrific. 😊👍
Je reviens à ce combat (et surtout à celui vs Lou Thesz) grâce au livre que tu m'as offert, Jo! Merci encore (sans oublier Hans Schmidt qui est aussi un incroyable lutteur, superbement représenté dans le livre).
...and I love how his hot little body is "used" by Verne from 6:00 to 6:28...Imagine making him suffer in that hold for a full 5, 6, 7 minutes...Verne just verbally humiliating the little, muscular, French wrestle-toy the whole time, Verne dismounting Ed, only after being inconspicuously, completely satisfied inside his trunks...give those cocky, randy-feelin men in the front row something to reallllly snicker about!
This is fascinating to watch. Wrestling was slowly evolving into what it became today. They were still doing quite a bit of real wrestling but you can tell that when Verne got thrown into the turnbuckle and the crowd popped that is was a fairly new development. They were searching for way to make it more exciting for the fans and thus make more money.
The ending is very confusing. At 40:30, it appears that the ring announcer is about to declare a double-disqualification, but then the tone changes and at 40:33, he declares Gagne the new champ.
Not a fan of the long drawn out selling of the armlocks, but the techniques on them look so vicious. Theres a chance we dont see it anymore because anything that isnt a known MMA submission seems phony now, but those armlocks around the shoulder could do damage with some effort.
Gagne's leg scissors is hilarious. He couldn't have held Carpentier with those flabby things for a second. Did Gagne always look like a senior citizen?
In 1979, a new pro wrestling publication hit newsstands and magazine racks across the nation. It was Pro Wrestling Illustrated. When the first issue went to press, Verne Gagne was ranked at #2 in the now defunct American Wrestling Association (AWA).
5:20 to 5:28...Verne, feelin alpha as hell riding Ed like a little pony-boy, using him in front of the men in the first row...I can just hear Verne excitedly spitting out words to the effect of "yee-haw...giddy-up boy, ya little French fairy...ride em!"...All while Verne is just tinglin and itchin in his trunks...6:00 to 6:25 is even better, look at the expression of pleasure on Verne's face from the physical "feels good" aspect of the hold, Carpartier suffering in humiliated agony, while Verne is arched, suspended, and mashed up on, "flexing" against Ed's upper back...That right there had to have Verne feelin goooood, look at the expressions on the faces of the men in the first row, snickering at Ed's "junk" being arched-up and put on display in such a humiliating/emasculating way
Absolutely beautiful muscle boy Edouard Carpentier had to loose to the old man Gagne in this match. One reason I never liked Verne. His control of pro wrestling back then led to stupid mismatches like this.
Cartpentier is announced as NWA champ that's why the bout might be around the late 57 to early 58. Gagne's hair is poor even when he is early '30s. Les Miserables.
nope, not at all. please, do some real research before posting comments like this. carpentier was every bit as good as gagne, & he was physically stronger.
Carpentier was much stronger physically, and even though Verne was a hell of a collegiate wrestler Edouard would have given him no chance to pin him down. No doubt in my mind that Carpentier would have had the upper hand, but no doubt it would have been a close one.
Lol. The OP is right. Verne was an Olympic wrestler although the US Greco team did not go to the Games his year and good with his fists besides. Carpentier was not any kind of real fighter.
Carpentier was in the French Resistance in WWII and was awarded Croix de Guerre and the Croix du combattant medals . Which means he likely had experience fighting for his life in a real fight.
This WRESTLING is AMAZING BUT WHAT MAKES THIS IS THE COMETARY THIS ANNOUNCER IS INCREDIBLE. LOVE THESE CHICAGO TAPES BECAUSE OF HIM.
For wrestling fans who grew up hearing a heel / face commentator team who bicker since the 1980's, having a single person on commentary who is chill about the whole thing is like a breath of fresh air.
Wrestling was pure sport then. Along came 80's wwf and 90's attitude, and this format is now put on the shelf.
Not really; it was more of a performance art. The industry treated itself like a sport and that made it easier to hide the work in plain sight.
Wrestling Scholar Bernkastel I'll pull ROH off the shelf for at at least attempting pure sport. Plus Harley Race's promotion.
***** ROH was pretty good back in 2006-2007 when I was still watching it. When their matches became nothing but high spot showcases is when I stopped watching.
@@VolumedMusicMan Yeah but "pure sport" doesn’t draw, that's why ROH was never able to draw more than 3000 fans on its own for 15+ years (the only reason they are doing a little better now is due to the association with New Japan). A lot of casual fans thought it was ridiculous to treat wrestling as a sport, in a way it can almost be interpreted as an insult to the audience's intelligence since most people (even in the 50s and 60’s) went to wrestling matches to be entertained first. WWF was the smartest of all promotion since it targeted these casual fans and sold its product as being entertainment; only a very small minority of people can sit and enjoy a 60 minutes Broadway full of headlocks and rest holds, the business had to change or it would have stayed a low level niche on the same level as the circus or the Harlem globetrotters.
Jonathan Turbide I see were you are coming from. The entertainment/carny characters: for eg: The AWA had mad dog vachon, Baron Von Raschke, and the crusher kepping the fans entertained. While Bockwinkle, Gagne and Robinson played puresport. It went hand in hand. Until now with more “entertainment” and less sport with mega high spots.
I wish wrestling was like this now
The fact that the commentator apologized for lighting a cigarette is fantastic 😂
carpentier was always in great shape in his career. loved the stuff he would do from the top rope.
Two classic wrestlers. This one's a keeper.
Edouard Carpentier and Antonino Rocca were the first wrestlers I knew of. Great performers. Tremendous wrestling acrobatics
saw Antonino Rocca, Haystacks Calhoun, Ricky Starr, The Sheik, wrestle many years ago. was in grammar school. late 50's. It was an "under the stars" match @ Newton NJ HS. The ring was set up outside.
Great Black and White photos from their matches in the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame at the Chicago International Amphitheater Mezzanine level SW Corner of the building!
Édouard Carpentier He was a super baby face who dazzled spectators with his agility, and implemented the turnbuckles, and flying head scissors. He is considered innovative in that respect.
He was a member of the French Resistance in WWII, and was decorated for it. He trained André the Giant.
Thanks for sharing.
Incredible wrestling from two of the best. Carpenter had an awesome physique!
Nice to see the continuity between amateur wrestling and professional wrestling.
6:00 to 6:28 is one of my favorite parts, Carpartier's "junk" being put on display for the snickering men in the front row, while Verne enjoys the alpha-masculine feeling sensation of forcibly driving his manhood into the upper back of the humiliated Carpartier, suspending himself in mid air, "flexing" himself against Ed's aching back...Tell me Verne wasn't physically enjoying it...and I'll call ya a liar, lol
Gagne left Chicago promotion in 58'. Then he formed the AWA, awarded himself as the world champ when NWA champ Pat O'Connor "kayfabed" no showed the match.Verne came back to Chicago in
1966 and became business partners with Dick the Brusier and Wilbur Snyder. Bob Luce was frontman promoter.
This is actually a very important piece of wrestling footage. The NWA World Heavyweight Championship had a lot of controversy surrounding it around this time, different territories were recognizing different travelling Champions when promoted Eddie Quinn of Montreal (Carpentier's territory) left the NWA. Subsequently the NWA eventually stopped recognizing Carpentier as Champion, and started recognizing Thesz after he defeated Carpentier by Disqualification (very possibly another controversial finish). Alternative champions started to spring up when they defeated Carpentier, though none were officially recognized by the NWA. Basically, promoters wanted to be able to promote one of their guys to be Champion and therefore sell more tickets. This match here appears to me to be somewhat of a "screwjob" at the end, probably Carpentier had been told it was going to be a Double Count Out and Verne rolled in to win the match and title (though they hashed it somewhat). Obviously though, the title was never going to be accepted with credibility to the masses to have happened by a Count Out. May 2, 1958. Thank you for uploading.
Thank you Richard.
Thank YOU for your insight
Very Nice
Great old school professional wrestling at it's best!
Chicago, Illinois: Friday, May 2, 1958
(International Amphitheater) … World Heavyweight Champion Edouard Carpentier and
Verne Gagne drew (2/3) (Carpentier won the first fall in 23:30, Gagne won the second in 6:
18, double countout in 12:18)
Omaha, Nebraska: Saturday, August 9, 1958
(Municipal Stadium) … Verne Gagne b. Edouard Carpentier to capture the World
Heavyweight Title (2/3) (Carpentier won the first fall in 17:03, Gagne won the second with a
sleeperhold in 11:25, Gagne won the third with a jackknife in 12:15) (special referee: Fred
Kohler)
ddenuci Gagne couldn't have pinned or beaten Carpentier if his life depended on it. Carpentier was stronger and the far superior wrestler.
+ddenuci The NWA belt was awarded back to Thesz because Montreal promoter Eddie Quinn quit the NWA 1958, thus cancelling Edouard's claim to it. Yet, Edouard dropped the world title to Kowalski, Gagne and Blasie. Thus breaking the undisputed claim.
Real wrestling, like it should be. Even though the match turned out how I would have expected, is the type of wrestling we should see today. Both of these men deserve a victory sign, regardless of the referees decision.
Two absolute legends in the ring. Bronco Lubich had flown in from Dallas to officiate this important match but he got hold of some bad shellfish that day at lunch and was unable to answer the bell so to speak.
You can’t blame Verne leaving the NWA. The politics weren’t there for him. Especially with Fred Kohler feuding with Sam Muchnik.
They created the US belt just for Verne so that he WOULN’T leave the NWA
Edouard Carpentier will always be a God here in Québec, a larger than life athlete. This is a terrific match since it shows that he could mat wrestle with the best of them, and that he wasn't just an acrobat with fancy looking moves. Terrific. 😊👍
Je reviens à ce combat (et surtout à celui vs Lou Thesz) grâce au livre que tu m'as offert, Jo! Merci encore (sans oublier Hans Schmidt qui est aussi un incroyable lutteur, superbement représenté dans le livre).
"Just step on your cohorts cuticle, and you've got him nailed." 💅
Now thats what I like.Real Wrestling.
Gawd I love these scientific matches...the two here are/ were the best in the buisness👍🏻👍🏻❤😁😁😁
Edouard Was very muscular and well built
...and I love how his hot little body is "used" by Verne from 6:00 to 6:28...Imagine making him suffer in that hold for a full 5, 6, 7 minutes...Verne just verbally humiliating the little, muscular, French wrestle-toy the whole time, Verne dismounting Ed, only after being inconspicuously, completely satisfied inside his trunks...give those cocky, randy-feelin men in the front row something to reallllly snicker about!
This is fascinating to watch. Wrestling was slowly evolving into what it became today. They were still doing quite a bit of real wrestling but you can tell that when Verne got thrown into the turnbuckle and the crowd popped that is was a fairly new development. They were searching for way to make it more exciting for the fans and thus make more money.
Carpentier, look at those muscles, what a physic!
Yeah dude 😎. You are so right. Man on man action 🔥 R U man enough?
Vern looked 60 yrs old in 5th grade,
🤣😂😆😉
For reference this is an offshoot NWA title held by Carpentier: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heavyweight_Championship_(Omaha)
Nice, Edouard held the first Omaha championship( held in Chicago)for little over a year 57-58. Then dropped it in Omaha to Verne.
pardon me while I light a cigarette
Carpentier fought with the French underground during WWII. Enough said.
What year ??
since when does a championship change hands on a count-out?
Apparently it did in Chicago, since Russ Davis was obviously aware that Verne's beating the 10 count was very significant.
I've heard about it taking place in Japan but not here
Gagne always look old even when he was young..
Gagne’s high testosterone thinned his hair ; but made him 100% male 💪! champion sired champions
The ending is very confusing. At 40:30, it appears that the ring announcer is about to declare a double-disqualification, but then the tone changes and at 40:33, he declares Gagne the new champ.
Referee's count is way too fast, no doubt to contribute to the 'outcome'
Can anyone see the difference between these wrestlers and the crap wrestling of today???
Some physique Carpentier had. Didn't see much back in the day. Gagne I guess never really had hair even in his prime lol
a jefufht
Neither did Killer Kowalski , that is until he started to wear a hair piece
look at some clips of him he actually had some here and one time
God i miss Catch as Catch can...
This is a good-guy match
Not a fan of the long drawn out selling of the armlocks, but the techniques on them look so vicious. Theres a chance we dont see it anymore because anything that isnt a known MMA submission seems phony now, but those armlocks around the shoulder could do damage with some effort.
WOW... Gagne Is a STALLION!
Yeah dude 😎. You are so right? What is up? Man on man action 🔥 R U man enough?
and sired champions
Where were the title belts because the annoucer said that Verne was the United States Champion and carpenter was the world heavyweight Champion
1957年だとすると、二人とも31歳。
リングアナがカーペンティアをNWAヘビーウェイトチャンピオンとコールしているから、怪我による試合続行不能でテーズに勝利して、各地でNWA王者として試合していた時期でしょう。後にフォールじゃなかったからと理不尽な理由で剥奪され王者移動は取り消されるけど、これがフォールやギブアップ以外では王者移動しないとする悪癖の端緒になった。
50年代は米国でもフェアにロープブレークすると拍手してるね。70年代には廃れたけど、日本では80年代でもこれが残っていた。
18:02 Carpentier sure worked over Gagne good with that ankle head scissors.
Two beautiful French surnames and the ring announcer butchers the pronunciation of both.
何年の試合ですかね？
初代タイガーが良く見せていたヘッドシザースホイップ。カーペンティアが元祖でしょうか？
その後に出したガニアのヒッププレスは強烈無比😁
Gagne's leg scissors is hilarious. He couldn't have held Carpentier with those flabby things for a second. Did Gagne always look like a senior citizen?
+TheTerryE i dont think verne was a weights kind of guy more cardio. and he was loseing his hair i think since college
TheTerryE give the guy a break lol he was 73 years old in this match
Gagne had pint of testosterone; so started losing his hair @ 20…
100 % MALE : sired champion !
Wait I thought the first US champion was crowded in 1975 , Harley Race vs Johnny Weaver 🤔
Both v good
In 1979, a new pro wrestling publication hit newsstands and magazine racks across the nation. It was Pro Wrestling Illustrated. When the first issue went to press, Verne Gagne was ranked at #2 in the now defunct American Wrestling Association (AWA).
mkl62 verne gaggny was 92 years old in 1979
He was born in 1923 and he’s clearly not in his 70’s here. Where are you guys getting your info
Yeah dude 😎 good match 👍 What is up? Man on man action 🔥 R U man enough?
This is the real deal 🤝
36:56…. gut buster bent that muscled ass over good ! 👊🏼
Gagne had better 💪…
Carpentier e meu Superman colocaram Kripitonita 💚 para ele ficar fraco e perder a luta 💪💪❤️❤️❤️😭😭😭😭
5:20 to 5:28...Verne, feelin alpha as hell riding Ed like a little pony-boy, using him in front of the men in the first row...I can just hear Verne excitedly spitting out words to the effect of "yee-haw...giddy-up boy, ya little French fairy...ride em!"...All while Verne is just tinglin and itchin in his trunks...6:00 to 6:25 is even better, look at the expression of pleasure on Verne's face from the physical "feels good" aspect of the hold, Carpartier suffering in humiliated agony, while Verne is arched, suspended, and mashed up on, "flexing" against Ed's upper back...That right there had to have Verne feelin goooood, look at the expressions on the faces of the men in the first row, snickering at Ed's "junk" being arched-up and put on display in such a humiliating/emasculating way
a countout should never decide the change of a belt. It is supposed to be a pin or submission.
ガニアは本来ブーイングが似合うレスラーだと思う。
Sweet, #SCM Squared Circle Maniacs
Verne was the United States champion? And also Edouard Carpentier is not currently recognized as to ever had held the NWA championship.
He had the Omaha NWA title:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heavyweight_Championship_(Omaha)
Mr.Carpentier & Mr.Gagne are sexy handsome gentlemen.
I love them.
Never could stand Vern Gagme .
Absolutely beautiful muscle boy Edouard Carpentier had to loose to the old man Gagne in this match. One reason I never liked Verne. His control of pro wrestling back then led to stupid mismatches like this.
Cartpentier is announced as NWA champ that's why the bout might be around the late 57 to early 58. Gagne's hair is poor even when he is early '30s. Les Miserables.
カーペンテイアとガニアか!!さいこうです
Verne gaggny was 68 years old in this match
Shaddup. He was 32.
Carpentier outclassed
I can appreciate the realism but these old matches are too slow for my liking. My favourite period was mid to late 80s NWA
Tremendous skill, sitting nicely atop an underpinning of fake scripts, iodine capsules to simulate blood, and dives on demand. No fun.
In a real shoot gagne would have carpentier crying in about 30 seconds
nope, not at all. please, do some real research before posting comments like this. carpentier was every bit as good as gagne, & he was physically stronger.
raddmann99 what a joke. Carpentier would have pinned Gagne in 4 seconds.
Carpentier was much stronger physically, and even though Verne was a hell of a collegiate wrestler Edouard would have given him no chance to pin him down. No doubt in my mind that Carpentier would have had the upper hand, but no doubt it would have been a close one.
Lol. The OP is right. Verne was an Olympic wrestler although the US Greco team did not go to the Games his year and good with his fists besides. Carpentier was not any kind of real fighter.
Carpentier was in the French Resistance in WWII and was awarded Croix de Guerre and the Croix du combattant medals . Which means he likely had experience fighting for his life in a real fight.
This commentator is awful.
Go Gagne! USA 1-Canada 0!!
RUSEV 1 aos COPYRIGHT 1107140 GATINEAU QUEBEC CANADA