Primer | Planescape Torment Analysis (Ep.0) | State of the Arc Podcast
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Planescape Torment. We have finally arrived. The moment you've been waiting for is... almost here. We'll actually do Dev history next week, but for now enjoy this introductory primer to Planescape Torment! Beware, there are spoilers after 27:29.
Time Codes:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. Analysis (5:28)
3. SPOILERS! (27:28)
4. The End. (1:16:52)
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I would like to say you contribute so much to the recognition of video games as an excellent storytelling medium. I've always played games for the story but never really put much thinking into how the stories are told. Your videos have shown me a new way of looking at and enjoying video game stories that truly enhances my experience.
Now this is updating my journal
This really memories my returning.
I just want to say, it was a pleasure watching your 2-part podcast about FF7 Remake from the Resonant Archive channel. You all expressed my frustration with the remake and validated my concerns for FF7 Rebirth. I also loved how you covered Hinobu Sakaguchi's style of story-telling and helping me realize why Final Fantasy hasn't felt like Final Fantasy to me for years.
I don't know why the videos were privated, but regardless thank you those videos. Easy subscription from me.
Planescape Torment is perhaps (one of) the only ARPG where the 'recommended' main character build is non-combat focused because of how much content you open up in dialogue by being a high int/ wis char. i've always loved that about it.
I will miss the 20+ episode formats for when I'm grinding for drops in FF XI/XIV or JRPGs but it will be nice to see you guys talk about more games this way!
Hey, guys! I wanted to comment on the observations you guys made on alignment (i.e. the horridness of true neutral Sigil etc.) around 57:00.
Alignment in D&D is often misunderstood as a description of personality type, but it has its roots in classic fantasy stories about cosmic conflicts between opposing moral factions. It isn't necessarily that "lawful good" describes "an okay guy that bends to local laws," but instead that that person is aligned with (objective) cosmic Law and (objective) cosmic Good, as defined in the "code" of the setting. In the D&D settings that incorporate alignment, and especially in Planescape and other pre-3rd Edition settings, "alignment-stuff" is as real as matter and energy, and is the constitutive material of spirits; each alignment-word, therefore, has a specific definition, which shapes both the environment of each aligned outer plane and the behavior/outlook/form of aligned Outsiders (i.e. angels, archons, devils, demons, etc.).
In reality, alignment at the extraplanar level (i.e., the one explored in Planescape) really is a mirror of political extremism. The Shin Megami Tensei games exemplify this pretty well by co-opting Abrahamic imagery and 20th century political language to illustrate alignment: the YHVH (OT) is the God of the Law, and Lucifer is the leader of Chaos; the former is portrayed as a sort of hyperfascist totalitarian dictator, and the latter is portrayed as a hyper-egoist-anarchist Social Darwinist agitator. Since they are Outsiders made of alignment-stuff, they are de facto personalized manifestations of the Cosmic forces that humans call each of the points in the Alignment chart.
In this context, it's understandable why Sigil is the way it is. It is a place constituted and ruled over by Neutral/Neutral alignment-stuff. In the AD&D 2e rulebook, Neutral/Neutral are defined as:
- (Law-Chaos axis): "Those espousing neutrality tend to take a more balanced view of things. They hold that for every force in the universe, there is an opposite force somewhere. Where there is lawfulness, there is also chaos; where there is neutrality, there is also partisanship. The same is true of good and evil, life and death. What is important is that all these forces remain in balance with each other. If one factor becomes ascendant over its opposite, the universe becomes unbalanced enough of these polarities go out of balance, the fabric of reality could pull itself apart. For example, if death became ascendant over life, the universe would become a barren wasteland." (PHB revised, 64-65)
- (Good-Evil axis): "Those with a neutral moral stance often refrain from passing judgment on anything. They do not classify people, things, or events as good or evil; what is, is. In some cases, this is because the creature lacks the capacity to make a moral judgment (animals fall into this category). Few normal creatures do anything for good or evil reasons. They kill because they are hungry or threatened. They sleep where they find shelter. They do not worry about the moral consequences of their actions-their actions are instinctive." (PHB revised, 65)
You can easily see how a such a stance of extreme, radical apathy can generate what most people would perceive as a hellscape (see 4chan for a real-life example lmao). If nothing matters and nobody cares, everyone can get away with anything! Until, that is, the tides of fate and judgment come to punish them.
I think that reading the 2e Player's Handbook (revised)'s section on alignment and the Planescape Campaign Setting book could be really beneficial to fleshing out these discussions! If not only to compare these ideas to how they are handled in-game.
Hope this comment's useful! I love this topic and how it's explored in different media. Glad to see you guys covering Planescape!
I actually thought they would have read the AD&D books (especially for the alignment section) and the Planescape ones. You can't fully understand the work otherwise imo
@@velvetimpulse Agreed, it is clear from their discussion that they never touched D&D or Planescape before. Not surprising considering the Satanic Panic and their religious upbringing. But it is hard to understand a lot of the nuances of the game without knowing the setting. Like them criticizing the fact that all the npcs are alien/demons or undead is easily explained by knowing that Sigil is a nexus between the living, material worlds and the heavens/hells and metaphysical planes.
@@rdrouynriv yep... It's like if they did the Xenogears analysis and never touched Perfect Works.
That's disappointing because as someone who plays DnD since the 1990s and has a high regard for Planescape and all that it has influenced since (especially the later works by Monte Cook, who contributed with Planescape supplements back in the day), I was really looking forward to their clinical analysis around it.
It's worth noting that the game largely takes place in the worst parts of Sigil and the planes. You start in the Hive, the slums of Sigil, the visit the Lower Ward, so-named for its many portals to the lower (evil) planes, then have a tour of several of the lower planes and adjacent towns, before visiting the Negative Plane, one of the most inhospitable locations in the multiverse. The Clerk's ward is the only remotely nice place you visit. Sigil in general is neutral in the same way no-mans-land is neutral though, even the nicer areas aren't places you'd want to be. Torment is also deconstructing the alignment system even more than Planescape usually does, most characters are twisted or mirrored version of their alignments, so it makes it even trickier without a grounding in D&D lore.
In Knowing the teachings of Resonant Arc I have become stronger
oh boy this is gonna be quite a ride... Updating my journal
I've barely even heard of this game. Excited to get a window into its world from you guys!
Amazing podcasts. I started watching you guys with one of my favorite games "Xenogears", for the last week I've been binge watching your content. Keep up the good work.
One of my favorite things about Planescape is just taking in the writing. Just fascinating stuff to read, seeing just how well written it is. I think getting Dak'Kon was the moment I was hooked.
And the acompanying music and background noises, the vibe they creates is one of a kind.
@@kalenics123 being in the bar and talking to that guy about philosophy was something that really stood out to me too. Masterclass in sound design.
I couldn't update my journal fast enough seeing this upload.
Resonant Chads strike again
I keep thinking the word chad when I see these dudes. I don't know it just fit also the excellent breakdowns are great!
Thank you for this primer episode of the Planescape: Torment podcast. I really see this episode as akin to the trailer for the second season of the State of the Arc podcast, and I'm curious to see how it pans out for everyone. I particularly love the idea, discussed in this episode, of using video games and art as a receptacle to further explore the contours of human experience and existence.
I chose “Suffering” in response to the question “What can change the nature of a man?”. In many ways, I do think that the Nameless One is on a very philosophical quest to “know himself” (Socrates) and to find an end to the torment that comes with “eternal life.”
It might also be worthwhile to think about and discuss the figures of Cain and the Wandering Jew while speaking about the Nameless One’s quest. The Wandering Jew is a mythical immortal man whose legend began to spread in Europe in the 13th century, a Jew who taunted Jesus on the way to the Crucifixion was then cursed to walk the Earth until the Second Coming. Cain too received a brand from God (similar to the brand of the Nameless One) after the fratricide. I think these archetypal figures will be very relevant to the discussion.
I chose regret I believe (it was a long time ago).
I've been waiting weeks for this and am pleased to see it finally begin. May the analysis proceed in detail for many episodes to come.
"When a mind does not know itself, it is flawed. When a mind is flawed, the man is flawed. When a man is flawed, that which he touches is flawed. It is said that what a flawed man sees, his hands make broken."
I was not jazzed about the new 4 episode format at first, but I am going to give it a chance before judging it. That said, I trust yall's judgment and suspect there will be a lot added to the experience by going through games in 4 episodes or less.
I just hope that means mgs 2 and 3 means 8 episodes since they are two games back to back
especially the xeno games
I agree. I can see 4 episodes being enough for most things, but then I look at their FFX analysis...and there is just no way to shrink that one down to just 4 episodes.
"He was so full of inner dialog that he was in a constant conversation even with silence." I am reading a book one of great polish writer from 100 years ago Parandowski Niebo w płomieniach. I like your videos. I would never thought that this channel will evolve into such a pleasant place to be. As many had said before in comments your thinking is on the background of our fast times deliciously refreshing. Story telling not lore - I try to write an "sf" book myself and I recognize your struggles with the substratum :) Keep the good work.
“So it begins…”
Heck yeah, the best visual novel ever made
Looking forward to the coverage of this game which I've heard such good things about although to avoid spoilers I'll be opting out of the episodes for a little bit until after I've played it (still got to finish FF7 Rebirth first which I project I'm not even halfway done with).
As for the new format, while I think only doing 3 episodes focusing on things (plus the developers episodes) will help you cover more games, it absolutely has the ability to give games a lot less focus than they deserve unless you are significantly increasing the run time of the episodes (I do recall some old stuff of yours like FF Tactics being in at times 3+ hour length episodes). Something like Xenogears or Nier Automata absolutely would have suffered from this greatly. As will Xenosaga 3 when you get to it (Xenosaga 2 on the other hand absolutely can fit in that amount of time). Having listened to probably 100+ episodes from you at this point I think there's very little actual filler or what you'd consider that (describing what is happening in the story or getting into lore) that you'll be finding time saving from. Going into things having both already played it helps for sure (I doubt FF16 would have gotten as many episodes as it did if you had done so), but for games like a Xeno game or Nier that are loaded with so much stuff in it, I think you'll probably find that you want to talk about more stuff and now don't have the time to do so because of the format.
This video game is easily in my top 5 all time favourites. A true flawed gem type of classic.
Thanks for doing this one, guys. Very enjoyable conversation.
Casen, for your comment. There is moderate amount of cyanide in your body and it comes from apples. Apple seeds have tiny amount of cyanide in them.
I died of laughter when Casen was interrupted by the logo. 🤣
Love, love, love the content Mike and Casen put out! I look forward to this podcast every week and I have been listening for years!!
Great job every week guys!! 😎👍🏻
I trust you’ll figure out the formatting and put on a good show. Wish you luck on the UA-cam grind.
I think playing the game before the podcast will at the very least help you structure your thoughts and discussions more efficiently.
The 4 episode structure seems like the most logical approach to reduce stress yet allow you to cover more titles.
Hope you guys will consider a bonus episode ,or shorter discussion with q&a , on a case by case basis.
I actually love the tangents and the book club concept, the charm and depth of the discussion led to me binging a lot of your content.
As a newer viewer you guys may not find my input that substantial, but the show has been enjoyable under many circumstances.
I experienced a lot of FFX by playing alongside the show and from there I watched the nier content (I had already played some of gestalt before my 360 bricked and most of automata).
Your discussions have even given me new appreciation of some media piqued my interest in others.
My apologies for the novel if you’ve read this all.
Best of luck!
Hey I remember when Matt and I played through plane scape torment for dark pixel. Hope you all are doing good.
I think it's super cool you guys came back to this game, there is soo much. Keep up the good work!
Having Avellone on the pod would be awesome. Hopefully you guys can get it done.
I keep meaning to play Planescape Torment and forget to do. I've heard so many amazing things about this game and it deserves all the praise. I know the developers of Disco Elysium were inspired by the game so it helps put my mind in the right space for this.
Also, as a fan of tabletop gaming, the Planescape part of the DND setting is dense from what I've heard, but I hope to experience it myself.
Looking forward to this series! Still hoping for a Tales of the Abyss video, but episodes on tabletop video games is appealing too. Like I would love to see you guys play Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous.
Do it, it was my first game of this kind, so old, but so good. Like reading a good book, a hearing good music, and watching good tv, and you controll it all at the same time
@@BlakyNTI keep meaning to and forget to purchase it haha
So as with many things, stuff changes over time. DnD and it's setting have changed a lot over the years and not always for the better. In the case of Planescape however it was a fairly large fleshed out setting back in 2e when this game was made, in the years since yeah Wizards of the Coast have revisited it but they've made major alterations including the major factions. So if you'd like to read about or play this setting I would personally suggest trying to look into the 2e campaign books for the setting information, even if you use a different edition to actually run the game.
no worries, it will be there waiting for you, GOG notifications for sales are a good way to remind you when you want to buy something . If you do I recommend the original severely fix by mods @@RyanVonAegir
I remember being a kid and watching my brother play this and explain to me what was going on at any given moment. I have some vague (probably wrong) ideas on how the story goes so I'm definitely looking forward for your analysis
This series is gonna be as legendary as this games' story, calling it.
We can finally begin!
But also, what happened to the Dragons Dogma 2 review? :( Why is it gone?
+1 - I would love to watch the rest of the video!
Love the back and forth as always! Keep being awesome gentlemen.
Time to update my journal.
Praise be to our buff gurus of the interactive narrative arts. 🙏
I’m late to the party. I ignored this when I first got the notification but I stumbled on a video called the most philosophical video game and it was Planescape.
Now I am preparing to play and I feel very excited. This all sounds so very awesome. This game feels like it will tell me a lot about myself, so I’m planning to go light on using a guide. Maybe only when I get stuck.
You guys effectively nailed why Planescape: Torment is affectionately referred to as "the best game you'll ever read."
did xenosaga or mgs win the poll?
Mike's expression on meeting the character on the left in the thumbnail is so calm. Way more calm than mine would be
I'm looking forward to the new format!
I do wonder if something special will be lost with the new format, I hope is just me being adverse to change.
Finally!
OMG yes! next is Disco Elysium!!!
Is that confirmed? Because that would be awesome.
I didn't listen to the entire episode (to avoid spoilers as I haven't played Planescape) so I may have missed this if they said it later in the episode, but Xenosaga 2 and 3 won the poll for the next games to be covered.
I don't expect to play along, and this is one game I am not nostalgic for, but I will probably follow these episodes. Curious to see how this one works out.
You mentioned a Discord server, but you don't have a link in your description! :(
Also, I believe the 20 episode structure was amazing for getting the best of the games covered! :)
You guys should check out the CRPG Book, it's a very informative book with lots of crpg reviews and the history of crpg. It was collaborative written by many, including developers like Chris Avellone, the lead writer and designer for Planescape: Torment
Great Podcast as usual liking the new format so far. However, a minor pedantic correction Aah Real Monsters was also Nickelodeon not Cartoon Network.
I've been waiting to finish the game since you guys ended the previous series. I'm so excited this is finally happening
Been waiting for this one! My favorite cRPG!
I don't think I'll play along with this one, but I hope I can still follow along. Those 90's PC games were never really a part of my life and I tried starting this one on Switch and it just felt so wrong for me. Excited for the concept but not into the execution, just due to personal experience and taste.
Also, I think you are a bit of a private person, Mike, but I couldn't help notice you mentioned your wife last episode. Congrats on the marriage, all the best to you two! Thanks for such great, consistent content, guys. Wednesdays are a big highlight of my week.
Does this open the door to Disco Elysium or Baldur's Gate 3? Would love to see you guys talk about those at some point (though BG3 would be a monster to take on)!
why did you take down your final fantasy retrospectives??
Various comments on things you mentioned in the video:
Part of the reason why you are encountering so many dead humans, undead and devils/demons/aliens is because this game takes place in Sigil, the gateway that connects various planes of existence and non-existence. In a way it is a sort of purgatory that connects heaven and hell, if you were to put it in biblical terms.
I didn't expect you guys to scoff at a game for graphical presentation, but I get it. It's funny because PS: Torment tried to take inspiration from JRPGS like FF7 and add elaborate summon animations and graphics. But JRPGS were still graphically superior at that point in time. The graphical presentation never bothered me that much, personally.
I don't think Sigil is THE representation of the Neutral plane, but the center of it. The outland and the various connecting towns as a whole represent Neutrality and they are constantly shifting depending on how strong a specific alignment influences the rest of the universe.
P.S. Lawful Good is the true meta choice. Allows you to equip all the Lawful Good gear.
My new work schedule has led me to missing episodes. So I completely forgot this was actually happening and I'm very excited. 😁
I haven't heard a thing this man said, but this topic has earned you my sub
I'm playing for the first time to follow along. I recently talked to Marta and that whole part made me SO squeamish I had to skim through it as fast as I could, I can relate to what Casen said.
In reference to Sigil being True Neutral, the outer planes in DnD have no subtlety. Each plane lies in an intersection between good/evil and law/chaos, and fully embody the essence of its label. The outer planes are the realm of the gods and are manifested by belief, lying outside the planes where mortals dwell and the planes made of primordial classical elements. Sigil is True Neutral because it is a plane that is devoid of any leanings towards any of the alignments of the outer plane because it is made of all those beliefs in perfect equilibrium. The Nameless One starts the game as True Neutral because he is both a blank slate with no memory, but his body is made of the scar tissue of the long and varied history of his existence.
For anyone playing the game for the first time, you want your AC to be LOW. 2nd edition uses descending armor class for defense, and THAC0 is like an accuracy bonus. If you really can't handle the gameplay, there's multiple novelizations. The official one is very bad, but there's two fan ones that use the game script with some small embellishments to string it together into something with a novel structure.
Edit: Updated my journal
where can I find the fan novelizations ?
I've played this game at least a dozen times. Philosophy overload in a good way. Lol
Great, I'm in the middle of playing the game currently. Hopefully you'll get to Disco Elysium at some point too! While the themes are quite different, in some ways it's the polished version of Planescape, in the sense that Disco does away with anything other than reading and somehow "gamifies" it by turning the stats into personality aspects of the protagonist that condition both your dialogue options and skill checks.
Thanks guys!
My notifications fucked me! I have been waiting weeks for this and now im 13 hours late!!!! So much hype around this i hope you guys enjoy this dissection i know most of your fans will!
Excited but apprehensive for this new format. I truly enjoy the journey through the games with yall and to hear it kinda get more streamlined kinda just feels like more work 😂 hope it can still have the “fun” feel of the old podcasts. I do worry about the RUSH on material. Ff6 was feeling rushed at the end as yall mentioned getting comments from people asking you to talk about beats in the game (maybe important to them but not the story i get it). If episodes are kept around an hr15 i am worried it might just feel rushed. Again excited but really apprehensive to hear about games that are much longer than a film- example jurassic park was almost 4 hours by itself and to hear an entire game get condensed down to that i just feel like the potential to miss stuff/gloss over story beats in the name of time is very high.
I really hope those 3 eps acts are all closer 3 or even 4 hours.
@@fanmovie357same i really miss the over 2 hr episodes. Ff8 and xeno was like spoiling us
Had the same impression about the Mass Effect run. Mike straight up confessed he didn't bother doing any of the sidequests. I mean, what the hell guys, we're here for the details! THE DETAILS! I'll never forget that one episode on Xenogears where you guys spent an hour talking about a misspelled boss name (uroboros), linking gnosis to jungian psychology. IT WAS FANTASTIC, that's what we're in here for!
I'm looking forward to listening to this series. I hope that the new 4-episode structure works well for you guys. I also enjoy the super-long series but I suspect that shorter series will be better for your channel.
Hope you guys do Disco Elysium one day as a sequel series!!
I'm looking forward to this series as I have a few d&d style games on console that im looking forward to getting into. Just the guys are right about it being a text-based heavy game. It's definitely slower paced than your everyday game that's more gameplay focused. If you look into this, get ready yo sit down and play.dont throw on a headset and get in voice chat and try to not get interrupted a lot. Because it is like reading a book with visual cue here and there thru gameplay. But damn are they fun!
The amazing thing about Ravel's question is that the answer to "what can change the nature of a man" is literally "make them immortal and have them lose their memories with each death, and then see what happens." It was, perhaps, the only thing the Nameless One could have asked to ensure he got what he wanted from a capricious hag. Perfect "back a genie into a corner to ensure you get the wish you wanted" scenario.
oh shit it begins
When I had gotten to the question, my answer was “Nothing.” I actually approached it incorrectly as “What can change the nature of capital m Man,” and in my eyes, human nature is unchangeable. But after looking into after the scene, I think I would have gone with a different answer had I recognized it as a more personal question
The day you guys add Umineko to the things you can vote on for the podcast I will immediately become a Patron.
After listening to this intro podcast, I look forward to hearing you guys talk about it. lol this is the type of game I’d rather watch someone else play then play myself.
What can change the nature of a man? This gem of a game
"What can change the nature of a man? The answer is you Ravell, for yuo have changed my nature forever." Still remember my own answer from years ago
YESSSS AVELLONE IS IN THE HOUSE!!! lets hope he agrees.
Oh baby this is gonna be gooood! What a fantastic game!
I remember getting that original AD&D Planescape boxed set. Really interesting and different setting for D&D and I loved just reading through the books even though I didn't really use them that much. Thinking about it, the world of Sigil and the planes rather put me in mind of Clive Barker's Imajica (which had come out a few years previously), as well as some of his other books.
Oh, it seems xenogears will remain unique in its lenght
I understand you about the gameplay and depressing atmosphere of Sigil, I had the same experience that made me abandon the game, but it's also true that at the time I hadn't even played the original Baldur's Gate, maybe now I could bear the gameplay a little more.
Regarding Fable 2, the issue was mostly that the game was setting up some kind of final battle bit instead you fight a giant crystal that wasn't fun. A lot of players felt that it wasn't the conversation with the big bad that was bad, it was that the closest thing to a final boss was not unique.
Just here for the updating my journal comments
While you could cover your average JRPG in 5-6 episodes, I must say I strongly doubt that amount of time will be adequate for western RPGs. Can't wait to see how you guys pull it off.
I'd say it's the opposite. Western RPGs are not as rooted in philosophy and symbolism as most old JRPGs, I find
@@velvetimpulse While I wouldn't disagree that western RPGs tend to not have the same level of depth, those are the RPGs that they're not going to cover on the show. Not only that, but the breadth of western RPGs, especially as it relates to multiple playthroughs which are integral to understanding the entire work far exceeds that of JRPGs.
I just bought this game a few days ago. Can’t wait to experience it!
"Hell is called Battahl or something like that!"
Lmao Mike played a lot of Dogma 2 huh :'D
It's a CRPG , that's the genre !!!!! Hope you play Baldur's gate 1 and 2 after this because there's tons of references
I always wanted to experience the story of Planescape Torment but could never get past how boring the gameplay actually is, so I'm happy for this podcast.
the comment on the volume of reading required for these games is important. The more recent throw back games Pillars Of Eternity and Torment Tides Of Numenera were deliberately emulating this style and if you look at the reviews for those games it was a polarizing thing for people who weren't expecting it. Describing Planescape Torment as a visual novel is pretty spot on. More than the other games of the time (fallout,baldurs gate etc) Planescape was way more about the story than the gameplay. There's no gameplay loop that will "get you addicted" to playing it. There's enough interaction to make you feel like you have agency in the story but it's more akin to a novel reading experience.
Yeah, Planescape is a Visual Novel masquerading as a more traditional RPG ala Baldur's Gate. Being very generous, you could say it's more like a point and click adventure with way more dialogue. There *is* combat and the accompanying systems in the game, but they were very clearly an afterthought, or at least not made to be enjoyable.
I always thought it was odd how much people seem to bounce off it when going back to it, because Disco Elysium is very similar in a lot of ways, and the general concensus on that game is very positive.
It might just be that Planescape is really clunky from a modern perspective. I can see how it'd be a deal breaker for people who aren't willing or used to putting up with jank.
@@SaberToothPortilla Also the presentation, the game is designed to look ugly, coupled with the fact its old, then filters even more people, including ones who like even Baldurs gate.
If you want a game with good presentation that also gives you tons of problem-solving options, then Baldur's Gate 3 is your game! I'm not sure if the story is well suited to this podcast, but it's definitely worth a look in general.
ahhh 🎉 my boys are touching into the isometric CRPGs. Enjoy my friends you’re in for a treat.
Signers/Sign of One and Ciphers/Transcendent Order are my favourite Planescape factions in terms of my personal beliefs from the tabletop, but neither are joinable in the CRPG. Godsmen and Sensates are a good solid tie for third place for me though, so I was glad to be able to join them in the game.
When I first played this game I was pretty young I skipped most of the dialogue and I played only for the mechanics and when I finished it I liked it. The last boss was a bit underwhelming, too easy. But I liked that the game was a traditional CRPG in the style of the classic BG and BG2 but had a lot of production value in the spells and stuff, these were very good-looking pre-rendered spells for the time. Also there was no level cap, or not one that I knew of, which meant I ended up grinding a lot, up until level 47, in those sewers with the big worms that give you a ton of exp. Even though I didn't read much of the game, I felt like it was a deep game and I got something from it's story. Many years later, when I was 24, I played the game again and went for an int build to get more out of the game, to hopefully "figure it out", I wanted the "good ending" (I had not seen any spoilers at that point), by that time I have already read Dostoevsky and Nietzsche, and I did enjoy philosophy, so I enjoyed the game more this time. I remember you could engage right away into some interesting existentialist conversations with "Dak'kon" when you met him at the bar, and that struck me was quite interesting. I don't remember much more details, it was over 10 years ago, but I remember really enjoying the game, I think it stuck with me as one my favorite games for years. Maybe I should go back and play it again another time.
Let's go!
I’ve always wanted to play this game… I’ve heard so much about it. Story and Xenogears is my favorite game of all time easily. I played it when it came out and while the art and cinematic direction, cool turn based gameplay was eye opening but it’s my favorite game simply for its depth and the themes that are explored.
I’ve heard similar praise for the story of Planescape Torment. I tried playing it years back, but it was so dated that it was hard for me to keep playing past an hour. Xenogears is still a beautiful game imo so maybe the graphics do matter haha.
I might try and pick up on PT again so I can play along!
Wow wow wow.
I know why you change your format to max 4 episodes, but it kinda had some charm, following you and react to specific things on your journey through the games. Looking at certain elements and your reaction to specific things.
I hope that specific thing of your analysis won't go away when you sumerize your feelings more and condense them.
I really hope you go for some more detailed looks for some games from time to time, simply because of that "bookclub" feel of following along.
I feel like it culminated in lightbulb moments where both come to an epiphany at certain points. I would say it culminated in their social media podcast episode. It was really cool to see how they have honed in their world views. I wonder too what exactly the focus will be in thew podcast. Either way they make first class lecture material in these podcasts to me.
first of all, love your channel!
second, this may not be the proper avenue for this, but pls do FF12 soon ^^
third, may i suggest Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice somewhere down the line?
Its a straight forward story but with a lot of thematic elements i would love to listen to you guys talk about.
also, i imagine a lot of fromsoftware discussion will go
Q: why is there a random enemy here?
A: because LORE REASONS
and i imagine you guys can go one step further and say "and that is why/ how this contributes to the themes of the story" etc
forth, love this channel, again!
FINALLY.
Oh this is gonna be like Xenogears all over again
Yeah, I found the same sale of the enhanced edition on Epic Games today (ends tomorrow march 28). Which is fun, because it's the first time I'll be able to follow along.
Edit: AHHHH Real monsters is Nikelodeon, unbelivable as it may be
I still never finished this game even though I loved baldurs gate at the time
These chads are of a noble race, we must not denigrate them!
Heh, Tactics Ogre walked so Planescape Torment could run, it seems.
The very specific way "the question" is phrased I think is genius. Even without knowing anything about the game's story (and I don't) I think the surest way to answer that question with any degree of accuracy is to ask Chris Avellone himself what exactly does he mean by 'nature' in this context. Because all of the in-game answers are things that are IN the nature of a man, if we assume that 'nature' is meant as 'things all humans are naturally inclined to do/are characteristic of humans'. Then the answer is probably "Nothing". And if by 'nature' he means a set of moral values and general disposition (e.g. "it's not in his nature to do ______") then the answer is probably "Literally anything, all the time".
As always, semantics are the real devil in the details.
And for the record I don't think it's one of those rhetorical questions at all. There is an answer, but you make it your own.
A bit of nitpicking about (outdated) D&D cosmology, and some thoughts on "nature" (in the reply):
First, a little context: Planescape Tormet is based on the 2nd Edition Planescape setting, which takes the remote/high-character-level regions of the D&D 2E cosmology and makes them accessible to lower-level characters. More recent editions of the game have tinkered with the metaphysics of the system, and so the cosmology has shifted as a result.
In the setting, you have the familiar Material Plane, a more-or-less Earth-like place (at least locally). The Material Plane lies between the Inner and Outer Planes. The Inner Planes, connected to the Material Plane and each other by the Ethereal Plane are the realm of primal energies and essences - the building blocks of matter - planes of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Positive and Negative Energy, along with various mixed planes or sub planes where elements combine. Then there are the Outer Planes, across the Astral Plane from the Material Plane(s), defined by concepts and ideals.
There are seventeen major Outer Planes, loosely arranged in a great wheel, with the True Neutral Outlands at the center, surrounded by two planes for each other alignment. The geography isn't entirely literal, but you can travel by various means between "neighbouring" planes rather more easily than between other pairs, and the connections from the Outlands are mostly around the edge of the great rolling plains of the Outlands, in a pattern corresponding to the great wheel.
The Outlands are mostly rolling plains, except for the geographical center, where a great Spire rises into the sky. The closer you get to the Spire, the less effective magic itself becomes. There is one exception to this: the city, and realm, of Sigil, located directly above the top of the Spire. Realms are the domains of gods and related entities, where the very nature of reality is responsive to the whims of the owning being. In Sigil's case, the Lady of Pain is that being.
Sigil's most significant feature is its portals. While no known magic or other force can allow travel to or from Sigil by any means, the city itself has many portals, leading to anywhere in the cosmos. As befits its location at the very heart of the Outlands, Sigil is a True Neutral realm, though, aside from the inability of any divine being to enter by any known means, magic operates normally there.
When it comes to "nature", the first thing I want to observe is that there's a degree of equivocation in play. On the one hand, a thing or person's "nature" is referring to their innate qualities that are not susceptible to outside influences. On the other hand, when talking about a person's nature, most often, we mean their apparent or observable nature - that which we can infer from their actions - and that can, and does, change radically with changing circumstances and outside influences. The former is immutable, but unknowable, while the latter, while only an approximation to the unknowable "true" nature, is a much more useful concept.
So talking about someone's nature changing or being changed, you're talking about their observed or inferred nature changing - or about your model of their nature changing - and that can arise from just about anything...
Huh, I thought I'd have more to say, but I guess recognising that equivocation pretty much removes all the difficult questions...