The History of How Jungle Became The Most Important Role in League of Legends
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2023
- Once a near inconsequential role that was dubbed the "second support", the Jungle has now become, according to the opinions of many, the single most influential role in the entire game. Today we're gonna go back in time to break down its evolution and development over time.
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Small correction on Lillia. She actually had no built-in healing on release, but could kite camps all day while the jungle item healed her to full. She only got the healing on her passive when camps were given a bunch more MS and smaller leash ranges to prevent kiting them as easily.
That's actually wrong too she was given a mini reworked a few months after launch because she was to strong in proplay and to weak in regular league so they gave her healing to sustain in jg better yes but also to be a better skirmisher in fights
And pre release she could solo baron at level 1
??? you okay dude ? he's right@@templarstealth4712 they didn't give her healing to be better at skirmishes it was LITERALLY cause new jungle fucked kyting junglers because of leash range ???? the mini rework was to make her less obnoxious early because too much MS and they made E long CD cause in pro play all lillia did was fish for E ULT engages on cd. in solo Q people can't wait or group or anything so she can't do that
No, she was given healing when Ravenous Hunter was deleted from the game. She was originally intended to have healing on her Q, but it was removed pre-launch because she healed too much when stacked with Ravenous. She had healing well before these jungle changes came out.
8:09 The +87% winrate might be a bit of survivorship bias here, teams that manage to acquire a dragon soul likely already have a lead and would have won the majority of their games regardless of the dragon soul buff. It's still a strong and permanent buff that increases your chances of winning, but I think calling it an instant win button is exaggerated.
I wonder what dragon soul winrate is in games that are close to even in gold.
Let’s just look at league of graphs data for plat plus, which is where the numbers in the video came from I think.
Kill 2 drakes and having them be of the same type is very high in the winrates for your teams first two drakes, which I interpret as teams getting the 3rd and 4th drake, as the first 2 are always different, have higher chances of winning than teams getting the 1st and 2nd drake. So the first 2 drakes don’t matter as much as the 3rd and 4th, but how many games are you going to have go to soul point after one team already secured 2 drakes and have the game go to the other team.
Games also last for 28-25 minutes on average for platinum up to challenger, so if each team gets one drake in theory the average team won’t be able to get soul point before the average game ends unless each drake is taken of spawn but I view that as unlikely in games where each team gets at least one drake. I interpret this that since on average games don’t last long enough for one team to get a drake and the other team to get soul that teams that get soul basically won every single team fight.
yep, people bringing up winrates and dragons souls are so funny. that's like saying "look guys whatever team kills the nexus turrets first has a 95% winrate". yeah maybe the winning team just gets dragons and turrets and not the other way around.
Yeah its a huge snowball of which team’s bot and mid are more on point a lot of the times. If bot is heavily losing or mid is gapped hard, dragons become very difficult to get. This means that the team that is usually ahead is getting the dragons.
i mean, considering that cloud soul and chemtech soul have a whole 5% of difference in winrate when they are all just super buffs, i definately would say they still take a big part on that team winning. Especially considering that baron is a buff specifically design to end the game, and yet the team who gets the first baron has an 80% winrate, considerably lower than even the weakest dragon soul.
Did you know 99.9999 percent of core killers won? Core is op.
I'm sad to see that wriggle's lantern got no love in this video. I remember stacking it up on yi, noc and shyvanana and just deleting people.
You mean that time when your jungler could be considered away for around 20 minutes until he was stacked fully on the lantern, yeah it was fun only for that jungler and not always
AD bruiser Evelynn.
That item was so busted that I'm surprised he didn't cover it but then again you'd only know the horror if you were there to see it.
Shyvana/Yi/Trundle were so terrifying back then
rip feral flare udyr who would afk for an hour then 1v9+base
Playing jungle is watching your bot lane go 0-2 during your first clear and then hard losing the rest of the laning phase before they type “gg no ganks”
But you could’ve skipped camps to gank bot.
@@firenado1674and losing your topside camps?
stop fullclearing then u low elo, fullclearing is bad 99% of games
@@naiku.enlight us gold jg
@@firenado1674but no gank was setup... enemy bot lane was full hp with sums.
the most consistent part of jungling is being flamed 😭
The most consistent part of the jungle is getting reworked two times a year
I just mute all. It got to the point where even their pings started annoying me
@@mikoajciemiega8018 The most consistent part is that the jungle always gets different meta champs by a few small item changes
4:48 Adobe Premiere Jumpscare
Damn I miss Original Sejuani. Ranged Amumu ult was nuts.
Yeah I miss that aoe w… the flail
played her once after the change and will never pick her again
@@chimneyimp1486yea shes not a bad champ at all, but her old kit was just so much more fun to me, felt the same way about aatrox and maokai rework
The more they tried to make the role more appealing to casual players, the more they ended up achieving the opposite because who wants to be burdened with so much responsibility and thus the blame for wether a team loses or not.
I'm a casual jungle main, so yea I want. It's great having the freedom on the map, I frankly get bored when I play ADC or top lane.
Most people INTENTIONALLY play carry champs for this exact purpose. While it can be stressful if you get gapped, it also provides you more ways to learn how to win.
It can feel awful and just wonder “what could I even do?” When your jng gets demolished, whereas playing as the jng who gets demolished allows you to see where you can improve macro wise throughout the entire game (I.e. before it is doomed). However, I still think the importance of the role is too high for solo-q
You can tell how important a roll is by how hard you get flammed by the team
when the game is lost the jungler is always the fault if you lose the game when the 0/50 katarina can't one shot one of her counters
As a jungle main, man am I glad I've decided to never come back to the game. Too much responsibility for my shoulders.
/mute all, solves every problem
It's pretty fun, but you need a lot of game knowledge, you have to look at a play and decide if it's worth your time or not
Can you get a spell or a kill? If not probably not worth it, unless you want to give your laner more control of the lane
Once you know the mechanics you have the whole game at your fingertips, you're almost a mastermind that decides where your team goes
I'm not nearly at that point mind you, I'm still a silver player, but even at low elo sometimes the right cards (teammates) fall into your hands and it facilitates your job immensely
Switch roles??
Why not like idk... Play other role?
@@kauanjos3199if you have to change the role to enjoy the game then the game is not enjoyable.
It became too important to a point that if your team jungler dont do anything for 20 mins, game is over but dear lord if your jungler is active one it is gg
There is no betweens
you know your game is won if your jungler has good cs (and consistently makes good cs per minute) and makes good ganks
At that point you don't have a jungle, you have a hobo
I complained so much about jungle last season. Little did I know I didn't know how good I had it. They are so toxic, too. The power Riot has given them so that queue times aren't too long has really gotten to their heads. Kingmaker role that can also 1v1 my top laner just from the gold from their camps alone, a role where the catchup experience allows for a jungler getting doubled in CS and be the same level? Yeah, okay. Looking forward to next season's jungle buffs and looking at the r/Jungle_Mains subreddit and seeing them complain about buffs that are "actually nerfs" for the 5th season in a row.
@@AplicFlare Junglers aren't toxic, the team is toxic, because we get blamed for every single thing, also if you didn't know, league of legends is a game made by riot, of course it's toxic, what do you expect? If you play a game with a mindset that there wouldn't be anyone that's toxic then you shouldn't play that specific game
@@AplicFlare Also, jungle camps are the same as 3 minion waves, the difference is that you have to walk to each camp and nobody clears all of them immediately, even full clear can be stupid early game, you can't full clear every game and you can't clear camps every time, especially not if camps are ready or if lanes are gankable, I don't really understand your problem with junglers, a jungler is supposed to be important, a jungle would be useless if he could easily get far behind, or even just a bit because a small gold diff in this game can be heavy
Video series idea:
Season X meta overview
Basically a overview of each seasons and what characters and items were broken during that time. As a person who started playing the game a year ago, it would be cool to learn more about the different metas from the past.
One thing that heavily contributed to the jungle as a 1v9 role is not the actual game, but people watching the game. Tournaments, streamers, youtubers... Everyone knows the best role to follow in order to watch a match is the jungler. They control the team's strategy and where they go something is going to happen. So Riot focused a lot in making the jungler more entertaining to watch, which lead to it becoming overstuffed with responsibilities and gaining control over the entire game.
In addition, making secondary objectives such as dragon and herald more important, to push for early game skirmishes, also emphasizes the jungler role, because it's the jungler's role to call for those objectives and direct the team.
There were actually 3 of the “Spirit” items:
Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Spirit of the Lizard Elder, and Spirit of the Ancient Golem.
Ancient Golem used to build from Spirit Stone and Kindlegem, but was later changed to build from Quillcoat and Kindlegem. It was kinda like a Thornmail for junglers back in the day. I cut my teeth jingling with Maokai, running Ancient Golem and Sunfire
i miss when jungle was not the single most important role in the game. i also miss when there was a much small pool of junglers. really jungle is really blooted. bring back season 5 jungle that was the best time to jungle. i loved the buff you got off the different camps it was so fun.
I wish bot lane was the most important role so I could flame all the adc and support mains who typed jgl diff in chat when they were literally the reason why we lost
I could rant for hours about how broken jungle is. But since I am lazy, here is in my oppinion the most obvious, yet overlooked advantage junglers have: Eversince the Mythic Changes, there are no more specific jungle items they have to build. This was done so junglers don't have a disadvantage when everyone else can build the new flashy Mythic items. However with the current itteration of jungle pets, Junglers will eventually get primal smite, giving them Either insane movespeed bonus, a shield that also gives tenacity and slow resistence, or bonus %-max health true damage and a slow. So no matter what champ you play, if you build the same Items, the champ will ALWAYS be stronger in the jungle than in any lane. But thats not even everything. Thanks to these jungle items, just existing in the Jungle or River gives incredible mana regeneration. Also, Junglers get additional Mana regeneration when killing camps, so there are basically no situations anymore where a jungler has to think about how much mana he can spend to clear a camp if he wants to gank afterwards, because he is always full mana anyways. But at least he has to kite camps to not take to much damage, right? Wrong! They also get healed from the damage the pets do, which by the way scales with ad, ap, armor, mr and health, and they get a heal after they killed the large monster. So not only are they full mana all the time, but also full hp.
But thats not even all. It is also the most protected role in the game by design. Not only can they freely kill minions without getting diminished returns as long as the gold they gained from minions is lower than 40% of the gold they gained from monsters, so they can punish laners by breaking freezes, pushing out lanes, disrupting slow pushes and catching farm under turrets. All while laners can hardly punish junglers. As a toplaner you see the enemy jungler ganking bot while his crugs are up? Do the crugs. Not only will it take you forever because you don't have the little pokemon and you will lose half your HP because you don't get the healing junglers do to sustain all camps doing % damage now, but you will also get less for it than a jungler gets. Because just from having a jungle item, they also get 15 bonus xp for each large monster they kill, and they get 20 bonus gold for each snack they consume, which they get each minute by the way.
Ok enough for now. This was more of a rant than I wanted, so please don't get me started on how it feels to try and solo herald as a top laner, just to have Lee dash in last second, smite away the herald and place it on your lane to bail out the enemy toplaner with 3 free platings.
This was really in depth thanks haha. I wish i knew how to play JG brother
I got into League because of the Jungle role being a thing and Master Yi being a good starting Jungle. Glad I finally gave League a shot and I love to play Jungle. This was a very insightful video about it since I only started playing the beginning of this year. Would have thought you’d mention the pets now since they are the new and only way to upgrade Smite
Jungle is by far the only role where I seriously have fun, I can get gold and exp without having to watch my enemies movement and try to avoid their attacks, but it gets frustating if your team loses more than 2 lanes and the enemies start warding every single corner of your jungle and take every single camp, that's like the only point where it's unplayable, but top is really fun too, I just recently started playing cameel and she's fun to play and what I like most about top lane, I barely get ganked, unless I play a champ that I'm not so good with or I'm yone/yasuo
Wriggle's lantern really threw a lot of caster junglers and tanks under the bus and prolly single handedly made every auto attacking champion viable in the jungle
Still convinced that jungle is broken nowadays due to the fact that the guy who writes the patch notes is a jungle gold hard stuck and he convinced that his teammates are holding him back.
awesome video! could be cool if you could make this a series talking about each roles history?
Man seeing the old stonewall clips brings back some good memories
The way jungle changed over the years
Is such a great example of how numbers can never fix bad design
They have shrunk the effective map size by half
The fact you forgot about Elder golem despite the fact it was the one most commonly built of the three by the junglers themselves is somewhat amusing. It gave a large block of health and tenacity which would often transition smoothly into typically Iceborn Guantlet. Unfortunately for all of the bruisers that would utilize the build, Ezreal kept getting the lizard and gauntlet nerfed because the first iteration of blue ez was wrecking pro play too damn much.
I am a jungle main and honestly I do think that jungle has to much power, but not in the form of being 1v9, but in there being too little risk, the jungle is simply too safe as of right now, and all the camps give you a lot of gold/xp, jungle should be about ganking and getting your hands dirty, and not power farming. Jungle has control over all 3 lanes at all times it will always be 1v9 it should just be riskier to do so
Making one of the most important roles in the game as easy as it has been took out all the excitement and proper mind games out of the jungle for me. I mained Elise which is an early game champ. It was practically impossible to punish champs in the jungle or to go for gank oriented strategies when there's so much protection and so much comfort and safety. While there's more incentive for a newb to play and more of a champion pool, the scale has tipped towards the power farmers, the tanky, the no risk investment champs almost deleting other types of viable strategies in the game. It was one of the reasons why I left.
Jungle definitely doesn't have too much power, just imagine if your team is too greedy and can't wait for you to get into position and just go in without hesitation feed the enemy and the enemies always come to your jungle or try to pick you, that's unplayable, even having a good cs or being fed doesn't bring you out of that unless you can hyper carry or the enemies are inting, if your team is bad early game, then they'll be worse in late game, I'm gold in soloq and my teammates had a big difference than in flex where I'm currently still bronze, it's just horrible if your team sucks, I carried 2 out of 3 games, but yet it was too close to lose because my team was a bunch of garbage that didn't even understand the game, none of them didn't even look onto the map which already makes you a bad player in my opinion + the enemy team was garbage too, but guess just better than my team, in a game I was able to carry without any towers left, even with no nexus towers and that as an evelynn against a viego and a few other annoying champs that I don't remember, but their viego was seriously so ass, I think they were even premades of 5, they tried to pick me but failed at that and I also got a point where I had a 3 lvl difference on viego
I think you are right. Jungle is always ahead of the curve in terms of gold even if they do not gank a single lane. I think that really does not make sense for a role that is always on the map. It is just a role with so many options and you basically in control of what plays your team can make.
@@AplicFlare Jungle is only far ahead if no single lane is gankable, if a jungler has to gank every single lane and if your whole team are pigs, then it's over for you and your team, because if they can't just sit 2min under tower or atleast not die, you won't be able to clear camps fast enough + the enemy jungle can easily punish you, if you're top and you haven't finished your bottom camps
as a jungle main (bel’veth), it has become way to important to the point that having anyone else in my lane makes me feel i will lose no matter what, and if the enemy jungler gets even one kill they will be a monster to the point that the game may aswell be ff ed at 15
jg is without a doubt in solo ranked pvp the most impactfull role, it meaks or breaks most games, and it is usually the most deciding factor early game without a doubt. It has the ability to influnce the game the most . I do not think there is any doubt for that. Anyone that played solo q knows that having a good jg means win, almost all the time because it gets lanes feed.
Me playing shyvana and just farming the whole game and never ganking:🍷
shyvana dance on mid lane while smiting the canon
I'm 6 minutes in, and can't help but notice there was no talk of the one and only wriggles lantern? Bis item back in the day? Surprised it wasn't brought up
Would have been nice if you had mentioned our new jungle pet friendos, but for the most part the conceptual idea was already covered by you in the video anyways. I think it would have also been better if you had gave a little focus from the shift from support or tank junglers to carry junglers instead of just showing us we got to a point where anything could jungle. This could have either been a shift in meta or charcters, or thought process.
I swear, jungle in pro play is literally now Sejuani/Maokai pick/ban. Its been that way since worlds
Now we have rell as well
that's because they got hardcore cc lmao, cc is the key to win, if your team picks 2 game carries you just pick someone who has a lot of cc and in pro play easily every player can carry the game, so yeah cc is definitely one of the most important things in pro play, I don't think in low elo it matters that much because everyone is a pig
@motafu1 not just cc, but engage. Cc that you can use to start a fight. Very important, otherwise a decent player will never get caught out. I mean who would get caught out if the enemies engage is braum q?
Dragon soul is indeed a huge buff, but the correlation to win rate isn't completely causation.
Due to the power perception, the team that is already ahead is more likely to win the fights for it.
being a jungler means you do 100 good deeds like ganking or objectives and no one cares, yet you make 1 mistake, suddenly your teammates blame you like their parents just saw their report card
So true, my theory is League is a roller coaster game and some players get really emotionally invested in the phases of how the match goes.
You dont even need to make a mistake. If they make a mistake its your fault
especially if your team has 1 duo, they'll insult you so hard and don't even care if they get reported, they'll literally just start flaming you out of nowhere for the rest of the game, no matter what you do, especially after you make 1 mistake, it's incredible
@@seokmin3292 they are descendants of TF Blade or rather his clones
@@alex2005z if they feed the enemy bot it's your fault, if they have 4 deaths in 5 minutes without the enemy jgl ganking them, then it's also your fault, honestly bot lane might be the most pathetic role with the most pathetic players in lol, top and mid are totally chill, today I had a top shyvana who typed "I love you so much" after I made her lane completely free and broke the enemy's top mental, but we lost because our lvl 59 bronze katarina can't play the game (I hate flex) + she also typed jgl diff when I almost carried the game (had her muted tho since she pinged me in early game for no reason and after the top me and the bot lane called her out, she muted herself)
very cool to see all the stonewall008 gameplay, watching his videos on youtube is how i learned to jungle and got into the role in the first place. really missing the spirit stone items, tank item gave %hp, and you could get %hp runes with the old rune pages too, i'd build full health on old voli and never died
4:49 Rip infrastructure. Looks like Premiere Pro lost a track of a file.
I remember the red smite release. I went Fizz and his W+Red+Ignite+RedSmite burn were great
Ah, what a nice walk down the Corridors of Time.
one part of Jungle history that I feel like needs to be pointed out - there was a time fairly early on where Riot seemed very willing to try to discourage jungling as a primary role, before eventually coming to embrace the concept as pro play started to grow and evolve.
I think saying that because a team has soul they win more might be a bit of missing the forest for the trees, as i think it would be a fair assumption to say that the team who either gets soul uncontested or wins the fight for soul is already ahead at that point in the game before entering that deciding point
I do think it’s impacts is great for pro play, but becomes toxic for solo-que. Especially once you consider how impossible it is to have the losing jng
Seeing Sejuani and Ziggs in such an old summoners rift threw me off. I remember their releases and didn't realize league looked like that at the time.
Season 6 had a keystone mastery called Strength of Ages that was almost must take on junglers. It gave 20 perm max health on siege minion kill and 10 on large monster kill up to 300 max. When at max stacks and you kill a large monster, you restore 6% of max health.
Remember 54% WR Jungle Graves? They had to buff him in S13 just so he could climb out of 49%...
He was never nerfed inbetween those two events - everyone else eclipsed him.
Cloth armour and 5 pots opened up so many memories haha
with armor and attack speed runes you had to farm first 😂
Can we stop the "dragon souls" are instawin buttons bias? If you get dragon soul it means that you have the map control to take 4 drakes so you are winning or at least slightly above(maybe both teams are at soul point with no clear winner) and the buff of dragon soul is the step to go from winning to stomping or from being slightly ahead or even to being thw winning team. I wonder the winrate of dragon souls with comparable team gold+dragons taken i think it os not 90% but in the range of 60.
You're mistaken. AS jungle item was counterpart of Rageblade. It was giving the same effect when fully stacked on monsters. There was even an AFK farming YI meta at some point.
Warrior items wasn't Ghostblade counterpart. It didn't have flat armor pen and movement.
I remember Ekko was first intended a mid laner and not a jungler, the shield is just a concidence. And then Riot start to shift him toward the jungle tho.
Its either you do good early game and miss out late game or you are a powerhouse fighting against your own team with your keyboard
I used to jungle Karthas in s1-s3 it was a wild time back then and most ppl didnt think Karth could jung.
As a Jungler, and watching your video, I think over the course of the game's lifespan they wanted to equalize Junglers and Laners not necessarily make the Jungler a "1v9 Role" in design.
It seems the game was meant to be played in lane, and there was no champion meant to be balanced specifically for jungle in its early time. Hence as the video showed, the Jungler was always "behind" as they had to accommodate getting exp and gold in a different way than the laners who had the safety of minions. So time, resources, gold was wasted on items just to survive the jungle, you start sort of one step behind. So items were made to compensate a Champion in the jungle. Even in other game modes, even in recent times, like Ultimate Spellbook, the Jungler was forced to lose a summoner spell as every Laner could choose to have Summ + Ultimate spell, but the Jungler was forced to have Smite + Ultimate spell and therefore you lose out on precious flash while every other Laner didn't lose out as much.
But now that the Jungle is more or less compensate like a Laner (an arguable point depending on balance and meta) the prevalence of this "1v9 role" or "most Important Role ever" comes from the innate freedom of the Jungler as opposed to Laners. The Jungler doesn't have minions contested from him in a traditional sense, has resources and sustain in the jungle, and can go anywhere they chose to make some sort of outcome for their team while a traditional Laner has to go to their Lane. This is both a boon and a curse, a double edged sword perhaps. A Laner has guaranteed resources, but if they fail they can't go back to their lane. If a Jungler fails somewhere, they can opt to simply go elsewhere on the map, but also they don't have guaranteed resources. If you lose ground on your jungle the resourceful go with it. So on, and so forth. Really good players, smurfs, etc, know how to use this freedom to take over the map, and it looks like then its the most important role, but its difficult in its decision making.
Its kind of like...Laners have a salary, but Junglers have a commission. I do not envy Riot trying to balance Jungle and Laners, but also I wish they'd figure out something and stick with it. Every season I have to relearn everything, from pathing, farming, objectives, champion strength with new starting items, etc.
I enjoyed the background music
You kind of answered the question in the first sentences. It is the most important/impactful role, because it is the most difficult and has the highest skill ceiling. In order to be good you need to: Know your teams and enemies team win cons and make a plan b4 game starts. You need to know ALL lane matchups so you know where you're gonna have prio / kill pressure / have to cover dives etc. Additionally while the game you must micro your clear and use F keys to observe if the original plan is working or you need to adapt your strategy because your autofilled toplaner is losing a usually winnning lane matchup. You also need to know common clear speeds and routes from junglers, and must track enemy jungle and provide vision for your locked camera, full mute, not listening to pings laners. Likely I didnt even mention everything, but as you see, since there is so much skill ceiling it is easier to gap your opponent. I also think that its a bit overused to just say jgl gap gg. What laners dont want to understand, if you die to a gank at 3:30 where all junglers finished their clears and look for ganks and you didnt put a ward and die, its not jgl gap, you are just bad at the game. Oftentimes Laners just give junglers too much stuff to work with by dying and feeding very unnecessary deaths.
tl;dr: If you good jgler you deserve win more than other roles. Laners are dumb monkeys that feed and blame jgl.
What is the song in the background, ITS KILLING ME. I cannot remember it for the life of me.
Does anyone know the music playing throughout the video? It's been stuck on my mind for some reason and I can't figure out what it's from
I kind of miss those little buddies red and blue buff had during the SR visual update
You didn’t mention the removal of tettering camps. Where ranged champs could deagro and reagro camps to avoid taking damage but increasing clear speed before they removed it for agro system they have now
The early part made me miss my old Tankwick... first 15 minutes: Press R for assist.
Madreds Bloodrazor: Look at me, I'm the carry now.
7:07 Not sure what you mean by "presence in every game" when jungle was a permanent role since season 1 in ranked queues. I never encountered games where WW/Fiddle/Shaco/etc were not jungling in season 1.
I remember back in the day being told to give kills to the laners if possible since I was just the jungler.
Do a documentary for each role
If you wanna use winrate to prove dragon soul significance, you first need to understand the gamestate required to get soul in the first place. In order to get all drakes, you need consistent bot prio (can get into a whole thing about adc meta here), a jungler who is out-tempoing the enemy, better teamate rotations. All of these are markers of the better team, a team that's more likely to win by all accounts. By the time the better team has soul, then the gamestate has already compounded by many other factors, the soul itself mostly being an indicator of gamelength. So, it's not the soul buff, but rather an indicator of the better team in the first place.
And this is not even to mention the likelyhood of ending a game off an objective fight lategame.
In order to get soul you need a gold lead. Thats it. You need to be winning. Bot prio is optional as by the time you are actually fighting for the final drakes laning phase is over.
@@alex2005z Yeah what I meant by that is getting the prior drakes to soul point.
remember when you could stack dark harvest from jungle camps? man i miss that
I remember doing the old herald alone as Jax almost every game as soon as i had botrk😅
As someone who played since the beginning and loved experimenting with potential jungle champs as the game progressed, it's very frustrating now to feel railroaded into "if you're not playing this list of definitive jungle champs you're throwing" because it's almost impossible to account for the absurdly superior clear speeds. It used to be possible to play a champ in the more "supportive" style of gank jungling and build enough of a lead to carry that way without necessarily having to clear every camp on every rotation, and powerfarming the jungle with minor counter jungling *could* work a decent part of the time, but there was a pretty good chance you were generally a weaker champion than someone that had been successfully ganking lanes consistently. This made powerfarming much more risk-reward. This in combination with the fact that this was back when the average game length was much, much longer-- having a powerfarming jungler would come out of the jungle with almost no ganks for the first time to destroy everyone happened more around 35-40 minutes, not as early as 20.
You said at the end t1 challenger journey in the jungle was the fastest, I wasn’t there to confirm if it was the fastest, but I looked it up and it said that it took the most games for him to hit challenger in jungle
Old Season 3-5 jungle was way healthier overall in my opinion, with the exclusion of some of the broken stuff that popped up here and there like it always does in league. In my opinion jungle shouldn’t even be a role, it’s almost always been the root cause of pro-play being slow and boring 75% of the time. Good players just play safe and only fight when they have the jungler coming to gank and have a massive advantage of 2v1. Since junglers roam around mostly un-checked the only smart way to play is to play as if they are waiting to gank at all times, until you get vision of them. It just makes for slow boring early game play styles. I think jungle should be something that happens after the first 7-10 minutes of the game, and the camps should be hard to clear and require a specific type of champion, kind of like it used to be. Those jungle champs would trade maybe cc or overall power in fights with the ability to increase gold and exp gains for their team. Then you might have strategies that either use or don’t use the jungle, and it wouldn’t be a cookie cutter setup each game.
As a JG main, I was immediately excited to see this vid pop on my feed.
Also IIRC didn't tyler1 had the most difficulty with top and jg? With Mid and Support being the easiest.
Mid and Support are the most irrelevant roles in league and it's 100% correct, tell me a game where the support was any important in late game, enchanters maybe, but everyone else is just useless, the only thing supports are good for is warding but that's almost everything in late game, a champ like taric is totally different tho, or a 1mil points yuumi who actually plays like she has 1mil points on yuumi
@@motafu1 Sup is literally as important as jungle in high elo lmao. Supports juat decide the fate of every objective and of bot/mid/jgl
Majority of League players dont know how hard jungle used to be back in the *cloth armor 5 health pots* days
Wasn't madred razors the first jungle item? I remember building it on season 2 fairly early. I don't remember if I started component into first recall razors or if it was available from the beginning. But aa champions like Shyvana didn't start cloth in season 2 and razors did extra damage to monsters and minions back then
Game went from junglers being considered "secondary supports" to solo laners and supports being "actual supports" for junglers.
Vertical jungling meta gotta respect enemy jungler / play for jungler, cheese level 2 gank and double scuttle meta with ( lee sin / j4 / ezreal / twitch / shaco ) gotta respect or play for jungler, karthus and powerfarming meta gotta respect enemy shyvana kinderd or yi and play for karthus to scale, tank meta respect enemy udyr nunu diana or play for your tank jungler as always.
Prowler's claw / Duskblade meta with kha'zix / rengar / talon / zed / rek'sai, you probably guessed it at this point.
Heck even with the double boosting strategy, junglers were the ones getting spoonfed all the resources.
Such a babymode role, it's actually disgusting.
What's the bgm on this video? It's so familiar but i can't place it.
Gonna be honest, jungle specific items felt so much better as a non-jungler who got off-roled. That feels like it really has a bit more to do with the mythic system and how annoying mythics are, but when I was first learning the game and having fun with AP junglers, having the mini-Luden’s felt like an amazing item completion. Plus, the items looked cool in a plastic weapon kind of way.
since season 3 ive been playing jungle since my playmates dont want me a noob to ruin their game i only change role in season 11 (no kidding) since they stop playing so no one can shout into my headphones now i've change role and the first thing i notice is that laners have it easier since they have a tower to relay and they have 2 summoners spell that can change the flow of fights
To perfectly describe my response to my friends wonder of why I jungle. It's the weight of responsibilities that piqued my interest, back in season2 all I wanted to do was farm and gank. Get dragons, be a team player. Nowadays, it's absolutely mental and similar to laners, I've gotten hard jungle diffed on both opposing sides because now there are so many factors to keep track of. It's actually mental to keep going.
A note on the "wight" camp (now Gromp camp):
It's true that this camp didn't always exist. Crazy, right? Have you ever noticed that every single other camp in the game has a little "nook" built into the physical walls of the map, except Gromp? That's because he was added after the map had been finalized. The main reason he was added is that the blue side was of the jungle was just massively worse. Think about it: without Gromp, the blue side would only have a single camp plus the buff. At best it was 3 camps to 2, but more realistically since buffs have a longer respawn timer than minor camps, it was more like 2 camps to 1. It was **literally** not worth your time to walk over and kill just wolves, leading to an awkward proto-form of vertical jungling where you just ignore your blue side entirely unless the buff is up. This also lead to unhealthy jungle pathing and spam ganking the same lanes.
*minor camps also respawned much faster in those days, so it was more economical to ignore one camp. The others would come up soon enough... first, it's time for your fifth mid gank.
I really like this video, but I think I was expecting a bit more of the thing that had made the jungle as unbalanced as it is.
You cover a lot about how the jungle systems have been adjusted to allow the role to exist and slowly being impactful, however I think you could have gone more in depth with how these changes morphed the meta around them. Also I was expecting to hear about how a lot of junglers have been chain buffed for the last 3 seasons, and some champions have randomly become junglers because riot one day decided to buff their dmg to monsters.
I understand covering any of these would have made the video longer, I guess I was expecting more for the tittle of the thumbnail.
every time one of my team mates uses the term 1v9 they lose 1/10 or leave laning phase while 3cs ahead at best
4:49 rip editor I know how you feel atm
As a jungle main, I'm glad that my team almost has to always rely on me and I'm glad that some of them help me get fed
Jungle and ADC are the most terrifying roles for me. Adc because what sane person logs onto league and thinks I'd like to be vulnerable and rely on my league team mates to help me come online.
But jg because it's the reverse...not only do I need to be the guy that saves the day but I'm STILL relying on my team mates to set something up.
As an OG top main I know the difference it can make to get even 1 gank, especially vs a squishy or immobile enemy. And yet I can ping omw, actually type out 30s, just literally sit in a bush. Somehow any interaction from me tells them to push wave as hard as possible and then let the enemy freeze under tower....
I try to go bot and they just back.
Mid laners you are my only friends thank you for seeing pings and responding.
Me, watching all my laners get either solo killed or duo killed before I can full clear: ah yes, jgl diff
the bot lane incident
I don't love the point about soul winrate making it an "instant win button." That winrate is almost certainly a way larger reflection of the culture we have around dragons--that each one starting with the second, third, or fourth (depending on game) is an event that most players should be coming to. This means that the team that wins the dragon is often also often winning a teamfight, creating gold and pressure leads. More to the point, the team that was already ahead is a lot more likely to win these fights or otherwise be able to secure the dragon. It's entirely possible, if not likely, that it is often optimal to play strategies emphasizing heralds and towers over dragon (especially if the enemy is rotating too many players to them), but this simply isn't how we play, and trying to play this way will get you flamed. Soul doesn't matter if you're down 3 inhibitors or a nexus for it.
Otherwise, great video! I learned a lot of history as a Jungle main who only started playing in season 12.
I think the emergence of the jungle role really kicked off the pro scene as now each player could have a position, like other sports. It wasn't just 5 random people thrown onto a game map, it was 5 positions head to head on the field. While increasing the complexity kept the game from getting too stale from match to match (like adding the different dragon types), I think it did hurt the sports-like nature Riot had developed up until about that point.
man u didn’t talk about wriggles, feral flare, or spirit of the ancient golem 😞😞
seeing stonewall always takes me back
He was such an underrated youtuber back in the day
Al-l-l-righty then it's time for a Jungle -insert champion here- game (Voice check 1) (Voice check 2)
Wait, so back before Jungle was common place. It was 2 top? Or what did the 5th person do?
6:36 wasn’t bloodrazor or devour a counterpart to guinsos rageblade ?
Jungle wasn't just window dressing. It's an artifact of warcraft 3. Defense of the Ancients was created in the warcraft 3 game mode and was basically just a vs map with the three lanes cut through. The jungle was always intended as extra resources to farm when the lanes were pushed
yap
Dota 2.
@@EruCoolGuy older, is a feature of w3 maps, jg camps also droped items
@@EruCoolGuy ROFLMAO where do you think the 2 came from?
as someone who did come back last year since quitting early s4 I can confirm game is now alien and I decided to just play aram and tft.
Vars if you see this you should dig into Dota 2 and compare the uses/impacts of the jungle. It would make for a fascinating comparison with League. Having played both I can personally attest to how different they feel despite being the same concept.
Maybe that's an unpopular opinion and i don't care, but league was much MUCH more fun to play when jungle was "a secondary support" and the early game actually felt like you vs your direct opponent, the fact that i always have to worry more about where the jungler is rather than whatever is happening in front of me bothered me so much when i came back to League.
A role that when played good is allowed to impact this much of the map with next to no downsides due to how forgiving the current jungle is, shouldn't be a thing IMO, that's why they kept nerfing mid over and over.
Played jungle once as Fiddlesticks. My top laner thanked me for the gank.
I was ganking botlane.
man i miss prime league. so much nostalgia, so little time to have enjoyed it 😢
7:25 what about support items? They have the same function and they didn't get deleted
God its so funny seeing champs like zed and vi on the old map
Vars can you make a video on maokai and his state in the game
wasn't jungle the second hardest role to hit chall for T1?
If i remeber correctly he had to play offstream and spammed Ivern to achieve this.
I think support was the easiest and he called it a baby role
Yes, took him 2000 games to reach chall in jungle, 400 for Midlane, 500 for support and around 800 for top lane, idk what this guy went on with that
Thats probably just him being a worse jungler than laner
@@alex2005z jungle gets severely out-resourced by almost every lane, except botlane, you're almost 2 levels behind if you only take your own camps, off cooldown, and you're a good chunk of gold behind as well, so I don't know if I believe jungle to be the strongest role, it used to be because you got so many resources so quickly, but you don't anymore
@@Atlasm2p it still is preety good to carry, as your carry potential isnt just related to your resources. Its much more impactfull than top
@@alex2005z depends on the ELO, feeding other lanes is good when people aren't absolutely incompetent, but if they are, like in low elo, then feeding your botlane doesn't matter if they're gonna go 7/190/0
What's the ost playing at the end of the video?
Meanwhile in pro play only Sejuani, Maokai and Rell are picked. Literally a worse support after all these nerfs.
How much do I have to pay you to include the background music titles in the description 🥺
I like no change from when i started playing in season 11 new smite dog