Additional Thoughts: - Ignore the tree in this video I was half asleep when I made it and it is super scuffed. I will bring a video out if I find a strategy I like - Qty definitely effects catalysts but not sure i does anything else - This strategy will need a very good character so not going to be for everyone. This would probably be one of the last things I wanted to do for an easy life but I like the mechanic - I do not think Gilded Scarabs are worth it as have not noticed a difference in the drops. If you want to do Ultimatum I would just do Rusted Scarab - There are actually 2 challenges for Inscribed Ultimatums: Run an 83 8 mod Ultimatum & Complete vendor recipe for Inscribed Ultimatums (which takes 5 of them, so people are paying 3.5 divines to get this challenge completed, which also makes it even easier to sell as people will often buy 5 of them) - I also constantly call Ultimatum Metamorph so apologies :)
Ultimatum is a jackpot mechanic similar to Ritual or TOTA. Do enough of them and eventually you'll hit something big. I've done 800 maps of Ultimatu this League, all with Gilded Scarabs and full tree and have gotten some really big ticket items from the last waves. Some examples include: Double corrupted Mageblood, Inscribed Ultimatum for a Mageblood, Mirror Shard on two occasions, Inscribed Ultimatum for a Headhunter, Double Corrupted Diallas that I sold for 80 divs, Double corrupted perfectly rolled Ancient skull with 90% mana modifier corrupt that I sold for 50 divines. Double corrupted +1 Curse Jinxed Juju that I sold for 70 divines, stack of x3 Doctor Cards. Unfortunately, none of these items duped. Some mid level stuff I've gotten include: Several Inscribed Ultimatums rewarding 4-8 div, 5 Enlightens(Duped two times), stacks of 3-5 divines (Never gotten more), bunch of random Divinations card in the 2-6 divine range, amongst other things. Lost count of how many bosses I've gotten, most notable thing I got from the boss is 9 Shields that I sold between 20 and 8 div during different times of the League. I've also gotten more than 300 Tainted Catalysts from him that sell for 1 div each in bulk. It's absolutely worth running high quant/packsize 8 mod maps for higher stacks of catalysts. 8 mod maps give around 7-9 catalysts at later rounds and this affects the boss. Unfortunately I have no statistics but it "feels" like you get the boss about every 30th map in my experience. Sometimes you get him twice in 10 maps, other times you can go 50 maps without seeing him. I don't feel like he's very rare though. No idea how many Inscribed Ultimatums and Fertile/Prismatic catalysts I've found since I always keep selling them at very overpriced levels to avoid getting spammed. If I had to guess ~350 Inscribed Ultimatums which I've been selling for 200 chaos each to avoid getting spammed. Ultimatum is probably the hardest mechanic in the game and overtuned in some regards. My character is extremely powerful. It finishes all Uber bosses and can afk wave 30 Simulacrums. But I tried to do a 13 wave Ultimatum project and failed 30% of my Ultimatums which felt really bad. Mostly due to unfortunate mod selections. The 90% less recovery is extremely rough. Especially when paired with some of the hard degens like Blood Altar, lvl4 Chaos Cloud and lvl4 Saw Blades. Even without the regen, those degen mods are extremely scary unless you have ridiculous levels of regen. If you get the limited area mod during stone circles or survival Ultimatums can quickly turn impossible. Especially if you run the keystone that gives you Ruin and 50% less dmg taken since you can't see what's going on inside the small circle and just randomly get 3 stacks of Ruin in a second from the blue spinning swirlies that you can't see. Early on in the League I prefered Stone Circles and survive Ultimatums when my dps was in the 5-15 million range. Those Ultimatums allow you to finish Ultimatums for free even with low dps and the Keystone that makes you take 50% less damage enables you to do wave 10 very easily by just staying alive. I really hated the kill waves early on because of one specific wave that summons a bunch of constructs and blue diamond shaped immobile towers. This Ultimatum wave seems bugged and spawns very few monsters so when I had low dps, if I got a kill ultimatum with those waves the later waves could take 1-2 minutes PER WAVE to clear for me. I always found stone circles very chill to do. Especially when you make them bigger and the area gets smaller every round which often allows you to channel 2-3 circles at a time. With better gear kill and defend waves are definitely better since they're way faster. With strong gear, the limited Area mod allows you to clear these Ultimatums way faster too and it turns to a benefit. Early on in the League when I was weak the Limited Arena mod was an instant brick.
@@guitarsolos89 I league started Ultimatum with Wandering Path. Felt pretty good when I did Alch and Go the first days and you get a very high chance to spawn Ultimatums naturally. You also avoid the two Ultimatum Notables that make the Ultimatums significantly harder. The rewards wasn't very good though. I quickly moved on to running no Wandering Path and Gilded Scarabs and saw massive improvements in profitability. For the map projects I've tracked I basically did 100 maps of Gilded Ultimatums with all wheels specced. I've tried to do 13 Wave Ultimatums 3 times at different points during the Leauge but all ended in disaster. It's just way too hard. The boss also is too profitable to pass on I think.
Thanks for the detailed response this will help a lot. I didn't think about stone circles and survive being probably better for more.tanky but low dps builds. I'll also try out some 8 mod maps to see if we can see a loot difference. 1 in 30 seems about right for the boss as I think with the nodes on the tree you get about 3% chance
@@FuzzyDuckzy Np. I've done alot of Ultimatums this leauge and found the loot very similar to TOTA last. I see alot of people complain about the loot this League but I'm confident that it's mainly because no one has been doing them. If fully specced Ultimatum was a free mechanic like TOTA was and everyone did the Ultimatum every map reddit would be filled with peoples getting Mirrors and Magebloods daily from Ultimatum, just like it was with TOTA. It's that type of a mechanic. Pull the lever enough times and people will find the rarest items eventually. In general I think the loot gained from finishing ~3 Ultimatums is somewhat similar to doing one full TOTA round or something like that. Only when I did my 8 mod corrupted maps did I notice a large difference in catayst stacksizes. I suggest you do a 10 map test with white maps and one test with 8 mod maps and you should notice the difference. On white maps, I think the base stacksize is 1-2 catalysts on the first Catalyst wave which happens naturally on wave 4. With Gilded Scarabs and the Noteable it pushes the first Catalyst wave to Wave 2 naturally instead. Same thing goes for the second guaranteed Catalyst Wave which normally happens at wave 8 but gets pushed to wave 6 with Scarab and tree. On white maps, I think the second wave gives 2-4 Catalysts naturally. I haven't done any white map testing so not sure. Both of these values are then modified by item quantity on the map, so by running a 150% quant map you're able to get 2-4 catalysts on the first wave and 5-9 catalysts on the second wave. The variance is still pretty low but you do feel it when you cash out 9 Prismatics or Fertiles on Wave6. And especially when the Trialmaster drops 9 Tainted Catalysts after defeating him. On the topic on Rusted vs Gilded scarab, I think you should think of it as running Rusted Divination vs Gilded Divination. When you're running Gilded Ultimatum you do it to increase the chance of getting jackpot loot. Making one wave every Ultimatum give the high tier rewards increases the chance of getting the godtier loot by 33%. On an unspecced Ultimatum tree with a basic Ultimatum only wave 9 and 10 will have a chance to give good loot with t1-t0 rarity I think. The notable in the tree + a Gilded Scarab pushes it so wave 7 and 8 also has this chance giving you 4 Waves with potential good loot like Divines, t2-t0 Uniques, Inscribed Ultimatums et.c. Just like with Divination Scarabs, you run Gilded ones when MFing to somewhere down the line drop an Apothecary or Doctor. With Gilded Ultimatum you run them to somewhere down the line drop something really juicy. That's why, if you do a 50-100 Ultimatum map test maybe you don't get anything at all and Gilded Scarabs don't seem worth it. Just like someone doing a 50 Crimson Temple map test with Gilded Divinations not finding an Apothecary might feel it's not worth it either. When the samplesize increases the true item spikes appear.
You could also fit in some alva missions into these maps, the corruption rooms sell for a decent sum, plus incursions fit the vaal theme of ultimatums.
Another great video! Thanks Fuzzy for the info and tips. My current build is kind of a glass cannon so I've avoided running tough content such as Ultimatum. Once I've purchased all the items for my much more tanky build, this info will be extremely helpful, as I'm going for another 40/40 league.
This is my new honey pot farm with my armor stacker, doesn’t matter which version I get (stones survive or slay) I just bang it out RQ, kill map boss for exarch invites, and reset. The inscribed are up to almost a divine each, and the catalyst prices are great!! It feels like the perfect farm for stackers!
While doing 300 ultimatums in Dunes and Glacier I found out, that Ultimatum always spawns in closed zone of the Glacier, at first i thought that was bad, but then i found that mobs spawn much faster in tight areas, especially these miserable robots, and most of the times they have no space to run from you, also stone circle are very smooth after you hit round 7-8 when 4 of them spawns, in closed tight areas they spawn on top of each other and you just can run circles like survival but much faster
As a guardian srs or just trying ultimatum in general (I did at least 50 maps & earned more than 100d past 3 days) stand in stone circles & survival often pops up even though u didnt allocate the chance. Rng is rng. So, it felt better to just allocate them all the way to not grief urself when u encounter stone circle/survival without the passives (w/passives, bigger circles to stand/shorter survival timer). My char is decked tho so ur mileage may vary
Top quality video as usual FD! I've been doing Ultimatum for the past week and it's awesome for currency, I've had 6 Divs dropped so many times it's ridiculous. As opposed to your experience since my build is a Transcendence PF Molten Strike I chose the stand in the circles and survive the event options over the ones you've got but it's bc my build can tank Uber Shaper slams without the hp globe noticing. One thing as a warning, I've fought the Trialmaster 3 times in like 150 maps and those freezing globes at lvl 4 are super rippy inside the arena and you run into them by accident so beware.
Nice. I have found him once so far but I have enough DPS to kill him in a few seconds. I also avoid stone circles as I am melee and I hate when the mobs just stand outside melee range and shoot spells and arrrows at you :)
One note on the stone circle thing - it can actually be very helpful to have the bigger radiuses (especially with the overall circle shrinking every round), as it can very often allow you to stand in multiple circles at the same time, which is a huge time save on those events. Also, I'm not positive on it, but I honestly feel like the stone circles tend to be faster than survival in most cases, but I could be wrong on that.
Thanks for the tips I will try it out. I have found taking increased kill and altar has meant most my ultimatums are those 2 which is working pretty well
+1 on stone circle being faster than survival. With their nodes both allocated, stone circle finishes way faster especially later rounds when they overlap
Hey, I did a bit of testing for like 3 days with ultimatum and essences, and besides it being surprisingly good money, specially if you find the boss,can be around 20 divs per boss fight, it can be really good content for a low dps high tankiness character, specially survive with the nodes is just mildly slower than the killing, I made like 15 divs hour or so on my "low" budget armor stacker with basically no investment besides sacarabs and chisels, plus it's really fun
The stone circles don't require you to stand still at all. Just to spend a total amount of time in the circle. This doesn't have to be consecutive. So you can run circles hitting each of the circles every round. Once you've banked up enough time in a circle that one will complete.
Yeah I get you do not have to stay in them they just take forever to do if you run them that way. I just personally skip them as don't feel the time is worth it, but that is just my personal preference. These encounters also make it harder to avoid the ruin attacks from the keystone unless you move permanently which definitely adds to the time they take
When I did the Ultimatum challenge I actually enjoyed it, u can kinda turn brain off and focus ur attention elsewhere. Had a few divine rewards while doing the challenge and got tons of catalysts that I harvest swapped into attri, fertile or resistance one, they sell for tons in bulk.
I've done ultimatum since the beginning of the league, people don't realise that inscribed and catalyst are so common and easy money especially with the node that double reward. People were spitting and shitting on ultimatum saying it's bad, they don't realise that they allow the catalyst and inscribed ultimatums to skyrocket in price since no one play ultimatum. I'm thankful more than ever for that, and money is made so easy with ultimatum now. I mean Two inscribed ultimatum alone is 1.2 divines lul
different experiences I guess. I think I ran ~60 Ultimatums and got a grand total of 7 inscribed ultimatums. I fought the boss twice in those maps. Then I specced out of it and just bought the rest of the inscribed ultimatums for the challenge.
The problem with ultimatum now is that it is super hard for what you can get and if you get ultimatum encounter that you can't do like the slay all enemy with those robot mobs, you have to skip it or it just take way too much time to complete and you can get catalyst from other mechanic like ritual, tujin coins, legion encubator, dilerium. All in all it just way way too hard for what you can get
Not worth doing most of the time, mostly for xp and challenge. However, you have a small chance to get inscribed ultimatum with double divine orb reward or even sacrifice a random unique for a mageblood, but of course very rare@@GCorndog
I agree on this side that Ultimatum is kind of hard for the current reward pool. I remember dying a lot at first, but knowing also your build is important to choose wisely the mods for the ultimatum. Now with endgame build, I succeed them all, and I can even sometimes do the 15 wave reward as fun personnal challenge. (10 regular waves + 2 free wins winged scarab + 3 bonus wave atlas node) . @@locmorningstar2740
Yeah the challenges are easy it is basically sell 5 inscribed ultimatums to a vendor and complete an 8 mod il 83 inscribed Ultimatum. I think there is also one to complete Ultimatum when delirious but think you can do it in any map tier. There may be more but not sure
Thank you for going into this. I know ultimatum is mostly seen as bad but as you've shown it can be pretty good. There are times when it's good it's REALLY good and I think it's probably the spikiest mechanic in terms of when big profit comes in but I also think the mechanic is fun.
Yeah I agree. Luckily as people need lots of inscribed ultimatums for challenges at the moment it helps smooth the curve a bit. It is a very fun mechanic and I prefer to do what I enjoy rather than what is the most currency. It feels too much like a job if you do that
Wow, wasnt aware of inscribed ultimatums being 160c. Was doing it at the start of the league, where they were around 30-40c. Considering it is the bigger (and kind of consistent) part of the loot, maybe a wandering path atlas for doubling the chance for them would pay off. All the noteables (except the +1 Reward level) are kind of a miss anyway.
When I was using rf chieftain I strongly preferred stand in circles and survive. There’s skitterbot teleport monsters that are annoying to single target to get new wave of monsters to spawn. Otherwise explode builds can handle it. Defend alter least enjoyable. Do not open Vaal breach in defend alter, they will attack alter and not reward progress for the kill.
I guess it depends on build. I am playing a melee build and stone circles sucks as half the time I just get attacked by range monsters with no way of attacking them without leaving the circle and slowing things down
1. Map tier does matter a bit in that you get more rewards, but should still be good in lower tier. 2. Whisps you definitely do not want to do as Ultimatum monsters do not drop loot so you will be making it harder for no reason. 3. 8 mod is definitely not needed. I alch the maps just to help map sustain. 4. Magic find will do nothing as the loot is fixed
@@FuzzyDuckzy wow so fast. Now i can combine it very good with heist and towerdefense or heist and essence and just skip the boss. My boss is ultimatum then.. All with exarch for sure just for 28 map kill boss for passive income. Not klicking altars
anyone test to see if rarity applies? i ran the no quant on maps keystone on the atlas tree and it felt like it made it so less catalysts spawned and more uniques and less catalysts appeared. no spread sheet done for it
Did you happen to notice what waves the inscribed ultimatums were dropping on? I haven't used the gilded/node for +2 to effective wave, and found only 1 inscribed ultimatum in 30+ completions... my other inscribed ultimatum drops were all from random monsters outside of ultimatums (I believe they can drop randomly as long as your current map spawned an ultimatum). I'm thinking that the inscribed rewards are locked to wave 10+, and so getting that effective wave 12 might be multiplying them by a lot.
I definitely had them drop in the middle waves and have had 2 drop in the same Ultimatum. I am pretty sure they are not tied to round 10+. WIth all the nodes on tree to make them more likely to be rewards I was getting about 1 every 5-6 Ultimatums
In my personal opinion survival was the best/fastest option. sometimes you get a kill all with those little robots who run everywhere and are extremely tanky that made the encounter take forever in the later rounds. Survival was guaranteed time invested for rewards received.
Hello. If you take the point for the boss, 4 pts mean 40%, does that mean you have a boss fight at the end 4 map on 10 ? I'm pretty sure not since you said you didn't encounter him.
@@FuzzyDuckzy that's an interesting view. I watch a lot and read on reddit as well, now mainly on ultimatum, as I'm doing this mechanics. Most people claim he's very rare and how not had one boss fight in tens of maps, going up to a hundred with not a single one. Maybe it's a matter of luck :)
tbh for nearly all players without an endgame build the mechanic isnt worth it at all if you run an (selfexclaimed) expensive build and you need 6-7min the avg. poe player will take significantly longer and way less consistent in his results of reaching R10 when you like the mechanic its maybe worth it to you personaly but i highly doubt that in the overall set of this league with all its possibilities from MF to just spam T1 maps for essence or bossrush and so on, its anything more then "meh" if they replace the rare items with decent (at least) bubblegum currency i could see a reason to run ultimatum when it pops up in the first week of a league but right now i rather rush essence for 30min - 1h and buy the catalyst because its better in terms of money vs time spent for me personaly but this video was very helpfull because i want to do the challenge and i dont like buying everything so i appreciate all the tips and tricks to do it
Yeah it is not an easy mechanic, but I was running it in red maps with my pretty budget league start rain of arrows build on day 2/3 and had no major issues if just the fact I was a little slow. I think when you understand what mods you can take and the fact you have to keep moving it is not too bad with the less damage keystone.
@@FuzzyDuckzy i guess the less damage taken Keystone was something not many have spoken about and it could realy be the gamechanger many need to get into running it
I have done your deli boss rush strat for so long now, farmed about 300 divines and I got a pretty good ish build but want to try something new, I like deli though so I was wondering if going deli strand with harvest and maybe reroll the orbs with the juice would be worth it, or just go 60-80% deli(?)
I used to do deli, harvest and legion on strand and it worked pretty well. I like combing deli and harvest as the timer is paused when you go into your harvest
I played some rounds of ultimatum in maps and I found it very boring and not that good. Loot was garbage vs time spent doing the 10 rounds. Glad I skipped that league. Wonder if GGG will swap out the ultimatum stash tab for another one.
@@FuzzyDuckzy so the difficulty comes from the modifiers you choose and not the map tier? Because i have like 300 T1-T5 maps ill probably never run (besides essence).
The amount scales with qty so if you have a lot of qty on the map it gives you more catalysts. I didn't know it could go that high though so possible it's a bug
Hi bro~ nice tips. But, c'mon. Such a weird Atlas~ Blight craft node? Damn. Essence craft should be the way to got in those points. Also, you're not getting neither the top points or the quantidy. They affect Ultimatum. Because quant does. Also, looks like a bossrush Atlas, with invitation and maps farm. But then blight and ultimatum is slow content. It takes ages. AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE FASTER BLIGHT NODES DOWN BELLOW. Neither the expensive maps in the top Also, you only profit from blocking anything there, in the essences. Blight is dirty cheap to get elsewhere, both the sextant and scarabs. The elevated is almost free and you can just forget it there. Also, buck buying scarabs exist. Lots of points just for one 10%+ chance of getting another essence. Probably the best aproaches are one of the this two: 1º An Atlas with slower content that does not cares about running all corners from the map. The reason is, so that you can invest a bit. 6~8 mods and such, since you're spending a lot of time there ang getting quant inside anyway, you may as well juice it up. Ritual, Alva, Blight, Harbinger are good options. Breach probably is a good one too, if not the best. The rewards from the mechanic scales with quant too. And are big money. Specially the rings (sell 60 and you get a expensive armour that can sell for tens if not undrends of divines with some luck). Probably letting ultimatum to last is good too, to get the quant bonus from all altars. Here one example: a/8yq (just paste it at end of poe planner). Standard +1breach and +chaluya sextant. +tormented betrayer farm is 2c too. +3 gilded. free money +additional rares sextant is nice too, if you do wisps. 2ª A really fast strat where you can "test the waters" of the ultimatum. But that still invests a bit in quant in the atlas. Essences can be done here. But either a deli strat, since the cheapest deli orb now is 20c, a mysterious harbinger boss rush (or any boss rush) or harvest would be gaining here. Specially in a t16 scenario. Juice price is quite high too. Expedition is weaker this league. Here an example: /a/8yi (same site). No need to buy anything but the ultimatum scarab or sextant. Well, that's my take on it. Hope you got some ideas.
ultimatum is shit complete shit the rewards are absolute shit, still i love ultimatum it really sucks that has so underwhelming rewards, i made my atlas around it just because i like it, but daam for a mechanic so punishing and hard they really let it down, i no longer care about the rewards i can get them or lose them and is the same, i just do it hoping the boss appears, theres no feeling of danger in doing it anymore because i know im just betting shit for getting more shit.
Additional Thoughts:
- Ignore the tree in this video I was half asleep when I made it and it is super scuffed. I will bring a video out if I find a strategy I like
- Qty definitely effects catalysts but not sure i does anything else
- This strategy will need a very good character so not going to be for everyone. This would probably be one of the last things I wanted to do for an easy life but I like the mechanic
- I do not think Gilded Scarabs are worth it as have not noticed a difference in the drops. If you want to do Ultimatum I would just do Rusted Scarab
- There are actually 2 challenges for Inscribed Ultimatums: Run an 83 8 mod Ultimatum & Complete vendor recipe for Inscribed Ultimatums (which takes 5 of them, so people are paying 3.5 divines to get this challenge completed, which also makes it even easier to sell as people will often buy 5 of them)
- I also constantly call Ultimatum Metamorph so apologies :)
Ultimatum is a jackpot mechanic similar to Ritual or TOTA.
Do enough of them and eventually you'll hit something big.
I've done 800 maps of Ultimatu this League, all with Gilded Scarabs and full tree and have gotten some really big ticket items from the last waves.
Some examples include: Double corrupted Mageblood, Inscribed Ultimatum for a Mageblood, Mirror Shard on two occasions, Inscribed Ultimatum for a Headhunter, Double Corrupted Diallas that I sold for 80 divs, Double corrupted perfectly rolled Ancient skull with 90% mana modifier corrupt that I sold for 50 divines. Double corrupted +1 Curse Jinxed Juju that I sold for 70 divines, stack of x3 Doctor Cards. Unfortunately, none of these items duped.
Some mid level stuff I've gotten include: Several Inscribed Ultimatums rewarding 4-8 div, 5 Enlightens(Duped two times), stacks of 3-5 divines (Never gotten more), bunch of random Divinations card in the 2-6 divine range, amongst other things.
Lost count of how many bosses I've gotten, most notable thing I got from the boss is 9 Shields that I sold between 20 and 8 div during different times of the League. I've also gotten more than 300 Tainted Catalysts from him that sell for 1 div each in bulk. It's absolutely worth running high quant/packsize 8 mod maps for higher stacks of catalysts. 8 mod maps give around 7-9 catalysts at later rounds and this affects the boss. Unfortunately I have no statistics but it "feels" like you get the boss about every 30th map in my experience. Sometimes you get him twice in 10 maps, other times you can go 50 maps without seeing him. I don't feel like he's very rare though.
No idea how many Inscribed Ultimatums and Fertile/Prismatic catalysts I've found since I always keep selling them at very overpriced levels to avoid getting spammed. If I had to guess ~350 Inscribed Ultimatums which I've been selling for 200 chaos each to avoid getting spammed.
Ultimatum is probably the hardest mechanic in the game and overtuned in some regards. My character is extremely powerful. It finishes all Uber bosses and can afk wave 30 Simulacrums.
But I tried to do a 13 wave Ultimatum project and failed 30% of my Ultimatums which felt really bad. Mostly due to unfortunate mod selections. The 90% less recovery is extremely rough. Especially when paired with some of the hard degens like Blood Altar, lvl4 Chaos Cloud and lvl4 Saw Blades. Even without the regen, those degen mods are extremely scary unless you have ridiculous levels of regen. If you get the limited area mod during stone circles or survival Ultimatums can quickly turn impossible. Especially if you run the keystone that gives you Ruin and 50% less dmg taken since you can't see what's going on inside the small circle and just randomly get 3 stacks of Ruin in a second from the blue spinning swirlies that you can't see.
Early on in the League I prefered Stone Circles and survive Ultimatums when my dps was in the 5-15 million range. Those Ultimatums allow you to finish Ultimatums for free even with low dps and the Keystone that makes you take 50% less damage enables you to do wave 10 very easily by just staying alive. I really hated the kill waves early on because of one specific wave that summons a bunch of constructs and blue diamond shaped immobile towers. This Ultimatum wave seems bugged and spawns very few monsters so when I had low dps, if I got a kill ultimatum with those waves the later waves could take 1-2 minutes PER WAVE to clear for me. I always found stone circles very chill to do. Especially when you make them bigger and the area gets smaller every round which often allows you to channel 2-3 circles at a time.
With better gear kill and defend waves are definitely better since they're way faster. With strong gear, the limited Area mod allows you to clear these Ultimatums way faster too and it turns to a benefit. Early on in the League when I was weak the Limited Arena mod was an instant brick.
Such a great report, thanks for sharing. EDIT: did u run a wandering path atlas setup?
@@guitarsolos89 I league started Ultimatum with Wandering Path. Felt pretty good when I did Alch and Go the first days and you get a very high chance to spawn Ultimatums naturally. You also avoid the two Ultimatum Notables that make the Ultimatums significantly harder. The rewards wasn't very good though.
I quickly moved on to running no Wandering Path and Gilded Scarabs and saw massive improvements in profitability. For the map projects I've tracked I basically did 100 maps of Gilded Ultimatums with all wheels specced. I've tried to do 13 Wave Ultimatums 3 times at different points during the Leauge but all ended in disaster. It's just way too hard. The boss also is too profitable to pass on I think.
Thanks for the detailed response this will help a lot. I didn't think about stone circles and survive being probably better for more.tanky but low dps builds. I'll also try out some 8 mod maps to see if we can see a loot difference. 1 in 30 seems about right for the boss as I think with the nodes on the tree you get about 3% chance
@@FuzzyDuckzy Np. I've done alot of Ultimatums this leauge and found the loot very similar to TOTA last. I see alot of people complain about the loot this League but I'm confident that it's mainly because no one has been doing them. If fully specced Ultimatum was a free mechanic like TOTA was and everyone did the Ultimatum every map reddit would be filled with peoples getting Mirrors and Magebloods daily from Ultimatum, just like it was with TOTA. It's that type of a mechanic. Pull the lever enough times and people will find the rarest items eventually. In general I think the loot gained from finishing ~3 Ultimatums is somewhat similar to doing one full TOTA round or something like that.
Only when I did my 8 mod corrupted maps did I notice a large difference in catayst stacksizes. I suggest you do a 10 map test with white maps and one test with 8 mod maps and you should notice the difference.
On white maps, I think the base stacksize is 1-2 catalysts on the first Catalyst wave which happens naturally on wave 4. With Gilded Scarabs and the Noteable it pushes the first Catalyst wave to Wave 2 naturally instead. Same thing goes for the second guaranteed Catalyst Wave which normally happens at wave 8 but gets pushed to wave 6 with Scarab and tree. On white maps, I think the second wave gives 2-4 Catalysts naturally. I haven't done any white map testing so not sure.
Both of these values are then modified by item quantity on the map, so by running a 150% quant map you're able to get 2-4 catalysts on the first wave and 5-9 catalysts on the second wave. The variance is still pretty low but you do feel it when you cash out 9 Prismatics or Fertiles on Wave6. And especially when the Trialmaster drops 9 Tainted Catalysts after defeating him.
On the topic on Rusted vs Gilded scarab, I think you should think of it as running Rusted Divination vs Gilded Divination. When you're running Gilded Ultimatum you do it to increase the chance of getting jackpot loot. Making one wave every Ultimatum give the high tier rewards increases the chance of getting the godtier loot by 33%. On an unspecced Ultimatum tree with a basic Ultimatum only wave 9 and 10 will have a chance to give good loot with t1-t0 rarity I think. The notable in the tree + a Gilded Scarab pushes it so wave 7 and 8 also has this chance giving you 4 Waves with potential good loot like Divines, t2-t0 Uniques, Inscribed Ultimatums et.c.
Just like with Divination Scarabs, you run Gilded ones when MFing to somewhere down the line drop an Apothecary or Doctor.
With Gilded Ultimatum you run them to somewhere down the line drop something really juicy. That's why, if you do a 50-100 Ultimatum map test maybe you don't get anything at all and Gilded Scarabs don't seem worth it. Just like someone doing a 50 Crimson Temple map test with Gilded Divinations not finding an Apothecary might feel it's not worth it either. When the samplesize increases the true item spikes appear.
Great report. Any suggestion for a budget builds for ultimatum?
You could also fit in some alva missions into these maps, the corruption rooms sell for a decent sum, plus incursions fit the vaal theme of ultimatums.
Another great video! Thanks Fuzzy for the info and tips.
My current build is kind of a glass cannon so I've avoided running tough content such as Ultimatum. Once I've purchased all the items for my much more tanky build, this info will be extremely helpful, as I'm going for another 40/40 league.
This is my new honey pot farm with my armor stacker, doesn’t matter which version I get (stones survive or slay) I just bang it out RQ, kill map boss for exarch invites, and reset. The inscribed are up to almost a divine each, and the catalyst prices are great!! It feels like the perfect farm for stackers!
While doing 300 ultimatums in Dunes and Glacier I found out, that Ultimatum always spawns in closed zone of the Glacier, at first i thought that was bad, but then i found that mobs spawn much faster in tight areas, especially these miserable robots, and most of the times they have no space to run from you, also stone circle are very smooth after you hit round 7-8 when 4 of them spawns, in closed tight areas they spawn on top of each other and you just can run circles like survival but much faster
As a guardian srs or just trying ultimatum in general (I did at least 50 maps & earned more than 100d past 3 days) stand in stone circles & survival often pops up even though u didnt allocate the chance. Rng is rng. So, it felt better to just allocate them all the way to not grief urself when u encounter stone circle/survival without the passives (w/passives, bigger circles to stand/shorter survival timer).
My char is decked tho so ur mileage may vary
Top quality video as usual FD! I've been doing Ultimatum for the past week and it's awesome for currency, I've had 6 Divs dropped so many times it's ridiculous.
As opposed to your experience since my build is a Transcendence PF Molten Strike I chose the stand in the circles and survive the event options over the ones you've got but it's bc my build can tank Uber Shaper slams without the hp globe noticing.
One thing as a warning, I've fought the Trialmaster 3 times in like 150 maps and those freezing globes at lvl 4 are super rippy inside the arena and you run into them by accident so beware.
Nice. I have found him once so far but I have enough DPS to kill him in a few seconds. I also avoid stone circles as I am melee and I hate when the mobs just stand outside melee range and shoot spells and arrrows at you :)
One note on the stone circle thing - it can actually be very helpful to have the bigger radiuses (especially with the overall circle shrinking every round), as it can very often allow you to stand in multiple circles at the same time, which is a huge time save on those events.
Also, I'm not positive on it, but I honestly feel like the stone circles tend to be faster than survival in most cases, but I could be wrong on that.
Thanks for the tips I will try it out. I have found taking increased kill and altar has meant most my ultimatums are those 2 which is working pretty well
+1 on stone circle being faster than survival. With their nodes both allocated, stone circle finishes way faster especially later rounds when they overlap
Hey, I did a bit of testing for like 3 days with ultimatum and essences, and besides it being surprisingly good money, specially if you find the boss,can be around 20 divs per boss fight, it can be really good content for a low dps high tankiness character, specially survive with the nodes is just mildly slower than the killing, I made like 15 divs hour or so on my "low" budget armor stacker with basically no investment besides sacarabs and chisels, plus it's really fun
I highly suggest using a HH or inspired learning when doing ulti, id you can fit it in, do it
About qty on ultimatum, it's really big if you run wandering path. Maps with 200iiq+ drop full stacks very often. But of course it's hard.
Great video's, very informative. Keep it going :)
*videos
The stone circles don't require you to stand still at all.
Just to spend a total amount of time in the circle.
This doesn't have to be consecutive.
So you can run circles hitting each of the circles every round.
Once you've banked up enough time in a circle that one will complete.
Yeah I get you do not have to stay in them they just take forever to do if you run them that way. I just personally skip them as don't feel the time is worth it, but that is just my personal preference. These encounters also make it harder to avoid the ruin attacks from the keystone unless you move permanently which definitely adds to the time they take
The 90% less regen destroys me and ruin sucks but i really like ultimatum just made at least 30 div this afternoon grinding it
When I did the Ultimatum challenge I actually enjoyed it, u can kinda turn brain off and focus ur attention elsewhere. Had a few divine rewards while doing the challenge and got tons of catalysts that I harvest swapped into attri, fertile or resistance one, they sell for tons in bulk.
I've done ultimatum since the beginning of the league, people don't realise that inscribed and catalyst are so common and easy money especially with the node that double reward. People were spitting and shitting on ultimatum saying it's bad, they don't realise that they allow the catalyst and inscribed ultimatums to skyrocket in price since no one play ultimatum. I'm thankful more than ever for that, and money is made so easy with ultimatum now. I mean Two inscribed ultimatum alone is 1.2 divines lul
different experiences I guess. I think I ran ~60 Ultimatums and got a grand total of 7 inscribed ultimatums. I fought the boss twice in those maps. Then I specced out of it and just bought the rest of the inscribed ultimatums for the challenge.
The problem with ultimatum now is that it is super hard for what you can get and if you get ultimatum encounter that you can't do like the slay all enemy with those robot mobs, you have to skip it or it just take way too much time to complete and you can get catalyst from other mechanic like ritual, tujin coins, legion encubator, dilerium. All in all it just way way too hard for what you can get
Are the inscribed ultimatums only worth anything because of challenges? Are they worth doing?
Not worth doing most of the time, mostly for xp and challenge. However, you have a small chance to get inscribed ultimatum with double divine orb reward or even sacrifice a random unique for a mageblood, but of course very rare@@GCorndog
I agree on this side that Ultimatum is kind of hard for the current reward pool. I remember dying a lot at first, but knowing also your build is important to choose wisely the mods for the ultimatum. Now with endgame build, I succeed them all, and I can even sometimes do the 15 wave reward as fun personnal challenge. (10 regular waves + 2 free wins winged scarab + 3 bonus wave atlas node) . @@locmorningstar2740
Oh good I needed this, there is some challenge that says ultimatum stuff but I have no clue how the mechanics work lol
Yeah the challenges are easy it is basically sell 5 inscribed ultimatums to a vendor and complete an 8 mod il 83 inscribed Ultimatum. I think there is also one to complete Ultimatum when delirious but think you can do it in any map tier. There may be more but not sure
@@FuzzyDuckzy perfect man thanks 🙏
Thank you for going into this. I know ultimatum is mostly seen as bad but as you've shown it can be pretty good. There are times when it's good it's REALLY good and I think it's probably the spikiest mechanic in terms of when big profit comes in but I also think the mechanic is fun.
Yeah I agree. Luckily as people need lots of inscribed ultimatums for challenges at the moment it helps smooth the curve a bit. It is a very fun mechanic and I prefer to do what I enjoy rather than what is the most currency. It feels too much like a job if you do that
Wow, wasnt aware of inscribed ultimatums being 160c. Was doing it at the start of the league, where they were around 30-40c. Considering it is the bigger (and kind of consistent) part of the loot, maybe a wandering path atlas for doubling the chance for them would pay off. All the noteables (except the +1 Reward level) are kind of a miss anyway.
Yeah that's not a bad shout on wandering path I think that could work pretty well although it would be a shame to lose the duplication nodes
When I was using rf chieftain I strongly preferred stand in circles and survive. There’s skitterbot teleport monsters that are annoying to single target to get new wave of monsters to spawn. Otherwise explode builds can handle it. Defend alter least enjoyable. Do not open Vaal breach in defend alter, they will attack alter and not reward progress for the kill.
I guess it depends on build. I am playing a melee build and stone circles sucks as half the time I just get attacked by range monsters with no way of attacking them without leaving the circle and slowing things down
Thanks for the guide! 🎉
Questions:
1. Maptier matters?
2. Wisp matter?
3. White map or 8mod corrupted matters?
4. Magicfind matters?
1. Map tier does matter a bit in that you get more rewards, but should still be good in lower tier.
2. Whisps you definitely do not want to do as Ultimatum monsters do not drop loot so you will be making it harder for no reason.
3. 8 mod is definitely not needed. I alch the maps just to help map sustain.
4. Magic find will do nothing as the loot is fixed
@@FuzzyDuckzy wow so fast. Now i can combine it very good with heist and towerdefense or heist and essence and just skip the boss. My boss is ultimatum then.. All with exarch for sure just for 28 map kill boss for passive income. Not klicking altars
@@nikolatorgross Sounds good I am currently running them with exarch influence, blight and essence and it is fun and pretty good currency
anyone test to see if rarity applies? i ran the no quant on maps keystone on the atlas tree and it felt like it made it so less catalysts spawned and more uniques and less catalysts appeared. no spread sheet done for it
I doubt rarity applies but not really a way to test it
Did you happen to notice what waves the inscribed ultimatums were dropping on? I haven't used the gilded/node for +2 to effective wave, and found only 1 inscribed ultimatum in 30+ completions... my other inscribed ultimatum drops were all from random monsters outside of ultimatums (I believe they can drop randomly as long as your current map spawned an ultimatum).
I'm thinking that the inscribed rewards are locked to wave 10+, and so getting that effective wave 12 might be multiplying them by a lot.
I definitely had them drop in the middle waves and have had 2 drop in the same Ultimatum. I am pretty sure they are not tied to round 10+. WIth all the nodes on tree to make them more likely to be rewards I was getting about 1 every 5-6 Ultimatums
In my personal opinion survival was the best/fastest option. sometimes you get a kill all with those little robots who run everywhere and are extremely tanky that made the encounter take forever in the later rounds. Survival was guaranteed time invested for rewards received.
I never experienced that but I was killing most stuff instantly. I guess what type is best is down to build and preference
Standing in stone circles is much faster for me as boneshatter, especially when ranged monsters spawn, with the atlas passives on t16
did 15 maps and got the trial master fight wanted to flex
Hello.
If you take the point for the boss, 4 pts mean 40%, does that mean you have a boss fight at the end 4 map on 10 ? I'm pretty sure not since you said you didn't encounter him.
It basically increases your chance from 2% to around 3%
It's been 4 weeks since you posted this video. Have you finally met with boss at this point? 😅
Yeah lots of times it's fairly common. Although I dropped.ultimstim a while ago to try other things
@@FuzzyDuckzy that's an interesting view. I watch a lot and read on reddit as well, now mainly on ultimatum, as I'm doing this mechanics. Most people claim he's very rare and how not had one boss fight in tens of maps, going up to a hundred with not a single one. Maybe it's a matter of luck :)
tbh for nearly all players without an endgame build the mechanic isnt worth it at all
if you run an (selfexclaimed) expensive build and you need 6-7min the avg. poe player will take significantly longer and way less consistent in his results of reaching R10
when you like the mechanic its maybe worth it to you personaly but i highly doubt that in the overall set of this league with all its possibilities from MF to just spam T1 maps for essence or bossrush and so on, its anything more then "meh"
if they replace the rare items with decent (at least) bubblegum currency i could see a reason to run ultimatum when it pops up in the first week of a league but right now i rather rush essence for 30min - 1h and buy the catalyst because its better in terms of money vs time spent for me personaly
but this video was very helpfull because i want to do the challenge and i dont like buying everything so i appreciate all the tips and tricks to do it
Yeah it is not an easy mechanic, but I was running it in red maps with my pretty budget league start rain of arrows build on day 2/3 and had no major issues if just the fact I was a little slow. I think when you understand what mods you can take and the fact you have to keep moving it is not too bad with the less damage keystone.
@@FuzzyDuckzy i guess the less damage taken Keystone was something not many have spoken about and it could realy be the gamechanger many need to get into running it
I have done your deli boss rush strat for so long now, farmed about 300 divines and I got a pretty good ish build but want to try something new, I like deli though so I was wondering if going deli strand with harvest and maybe reroll the orbs with the juice would be worth it, or just go 60-80% deli(?)
I used to do deli, harvest and legion on strand and it worked pretty well. I like combing deli and harvest as the timer is paused when you go into your harvest
I played some rounds of ultimatum in maps and I found it very boring and not that good. Loot was garbage vs time spent doing the 10 rounds. Glad I skipped that league. Wonder if GGG will swap out the ultimatum stash tab for another one.
Maps dont matter but they still have to be high tier, or item lvl 83 tho right?
I think the higher the map tier the more catalysts you get but I would think Ulti would still be ok in lower tier maps
@@FuzzyDuckzy so the difficulty comes from the modifiers you choose and not the map tier?
Because i have like 300 T1-T5 maps ill probably never run (besides essence).
Difficulty is a combination of both. Higher map tiers = more monster life and more monster damage @@LC-pp4bb
if u die in ultimatem do we lose our xp?
Yes
I guess we should do ultimatum now, cause next league there won't be these challenges and see profit halved...
I doubt this is the norm, but I just did my first trialmaster fight and he dropped 16 tainted catalysts and the unique ring.
I think that's the reward duplicating if you took the atlas nodes. I have had 9 catalysts before which I assume could have been 18 if it doubled.
@@FuzzyDuckzy I haven't taken a single ultimatum node.
The amount scales with qty so if you have a lot of qty on the map it gives you more catalysts. I didn't know it could go that high though so possible it's a bug
@@FuzzyDuckzy That sounds about right. 130% quant map, two players. Maybe not a bug just lucky maximum drop.
never seen anything good with ultimatum
It was good last league as any inscribed ultimatum sold for a divine as it was two of the challenges
Hi bro~ nice tips. But, c'mon. Such a weird Atlas~
Blight craft node? Damn. Essence craft should be the way to got in those points.
Also, you're not getting neither the top points or the quantidy. They affect Ultimatum. Because quant does.
Also, looks like a bossrush Atlas, with invitation and maps farm. But then blight and ultimatum is slow content. It takes ages. AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE FASTER BLIGHT NODES DOWN BELLOW. Neither the expensive maps in the top
Also, you only profit from blocking anything there, in the essences. Blight is dirty cheap to get elsewhere, both the sextant and scarabs. The elevated is almost free and you can just forget it there. Also, buck buying scarabs exist. Lots of points just for one 10%+ chance of getting another essence.
Probably the best aproaches are one of the this two:
1º An Atlas with slower content that does not cares about running all corners from the map. The reason is, so that you can invest a bit. 6~8 mods and such, since you're spending a lot of time there ang getting quant inside anyway, you may as well juice it up. Ritual, Alva, Blight, Harbinger are good options. Breach probably is a good one too, if not the best. The rewards from the mechanic scales with quant too. And are big money. Specially the rings (sell 60 and you get a expensive armour that can sell for tens if not undrends of divines with some luck). Probably letting ultimatum to last is good too, to get the quant bonus from all altars. Here one example: a/8yq (just paste it at end of poe planner). Standard +1breach and +chaluya sextant. +tormented betrayer farm is 2c too. +3 gilded. free money +additional rares sextant is nice too, if you do wisps.
2ª A really fast strat where you can "test the waters" of the ultimatum. But that still invests a bit in quant in the atlas.
Essences can be done here. But either a deli strat, since the cheapest deli orb now is 20c, a mysterious harbinger boss rush (or any boss rush) or harvest would be gaining here. Specially in a t16 scenario. Juice price is quite high too. Expedition is weaker this league.
Here an example: /a/8yi (same site). No need to buy anything but the ultimatum scarab or sextant.
Well, that's my take on it. Hope you got some ideas.
Yeah the tree was not really finished at the time I made a lot of.changes after the video was posted. Thanks for the tips
ultimatum is shit complete shit the rewards are absolute shit, still i love ultimatum
it really sucks that has so underwhelming rewards, i made my atlas around it just because i like it, but daam for a mechanic so punishing and hard they really let it down, i no longer care about the rewards i can get them or lose them and is the same, i just do it hoping the boss appears, theres no feeling of danger in doing it anymore because i know im just betting shit for getting more shit.