@@HappyH4ppyHappy Hmm, I would say it had one of the best stories out of the Persona game's I've played, but the Dungeon design was really repetitive, so could see why it put some people off.
truthfully, i didn't mind Tartatus, but i do understand why people don't like it. P4 and P5 have much better dungeons and at the very least, they don't feel like they are a drag to get though.
@@benjamintic3653 The battle system and music were the only things I really liked about Persona 3. It was a chore to finish the game. I think 4 is a lot better in terms of characters and social links, and I haven't played 5.
@@ZERO9098767 How do the ones in 5 look the same? They all have a set and unique design that I found enjoyable and memorable. Fair on 3 and 4 though due to randomly-generated dungeons.
@@Animefan8050 Persona 5 still has the Tatarus-like dungeon, Mementos. If we're talking about all of the dungeons in the games, then, Persona 3 and 4 both have dungeons that are unique, as well.
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:36] - 10) Bevelle Cloister of Trials - Final Fantasy 10 [1:27] - 9) Uyuni Salt Lake - Shadow Hearts: From the New World [2:36] - 8) Wise Owl Forest - Dark Cloud [3:52] - 7) Ravine Caverns - Valkyrie Profile 2 [4:54] - 6) Firewall - Star Ocean 3 [6:05] - 5) The Waterways - Tales of Legendia [7:03] - 4) The White Temple - SMT: Nocturne [8:04] - 3) Gladius Towers - Rogue Galaxy [8:351] - 2) Darakin Sewers - Legaia 2: Duel Saga [9:53] - 1) The Great Crystal - Final Fantasy 12
The Great Crystal - this dungeon took hours of my life. I went there several times, but my most scaring memory was when I first went to get Ultima, spent hours trying to get to her, even with a sketched map, and after I finally made it to the fight... I could not beat Ultima. I kept dying, ran out of healing items and was just so mentally drained from figuring out how to get to her.... That I ended up giving up, going all the way back out of the crystal, went to buy items and sh*t and then came back to do it all again. To this day, Omega is there waiting, getting rusty as I just couldn't bring myself to do it all over again.... That and Yazmat (he's still at half health on my saved game, waiting for me to finish him).
Once I got Yazmat down to his last bar and didn't notice he cast reflect on the party then one of Ashe's Restore All gambits triggered... Well, there was certainly a short glitch, but yep- in an instant all 50 bars refilled. Momentarily overclocked the games engine probably- the sudden value change of +49,000,000 HP. Talk about demoralizing. His doubled level effect remained as well... Good times...
It's a good thing that most of the Great Crystal isn't accessible until we complete the story part that forces us to go through it...otherwise this nightmare of a dungeon would be straight up unbearable. It's even worse that the nearest warp crystal is pretty much at the start of Giruvegan, the previous dungeon...which requires us to go through the Feywood first 🤦♂️
The Great Crystal was made to be a nightmare, I remember it being stated somewhere in the Ultimania for the game that they threw it in as a challenge...they certainly succeeded.
I completely agree about FFXII's dungeon. That place nearly made me quit the game outright, back when it came out. I'm glad I stuck it through, but good lord, what a slog.
I like the cloisters, too. The only thing I have against Bevelle is that you can accidentally take a wrong turn at the end and miss the treasure. The Ice Cavern in FFIX has the same problem, too. Take one wrong turn and instead of a save point, you’re up against arguably the most difficult battle in the game.
All of the Cloisters are easy. The only thing that makes it annoying is the control. It's tedious because you have to stop on pointless platforms so you can lower your speed. If it wasn't for that, it would be just another easy one. Even easier since it's the easiest of the secret puzzles in the cloisters.
Draco Errarus last year I downloaded it on ps4 and started playing it again. This is exactly what happened to me. Got stuck in that battle for Idaho’s dam long lol
@@dracoerrarus4834 Actually, that part in FFIX is quite clever. There is a crossroad: on the right, there is a terrible storm; were as, on the left, there is a calm weather; if you go right it's your fault, because the game actually suggest you what the right turn is.
Andrea Cuozzo Alternatively, the right looks like the rest of the dungeon you’ve been going through, while the left has a warm light suggesting you’re stepping into a new area that is just as likely to have a boss. Sure, in retrospect I know what it is, but first time through was frustrating. A good design would have eliminated all doubt. The moogle could have been along the path. It could have been in a side room instead of after a fork in the road. They could have left some other hint that a moogle was in the left room, like a sign or moogle footprints. Cleverness just isn’t enough when a wrong choice sets you back at least 10-20 minutes to your last save.
Thankfully, the worst part is only available on the second visit onward, but without a map, tons of annoying enemies, teleporters and all...Hell, I did the story part of the map blind and took a good hour and a half to do It!
In Tales of Legendia, the Japanese version was actually fully voiced for the whole game; the English version just got messed up because of a misunderstanding on the part of the localization team (they thought 'Character Quests' were just short sidequests, not the second half of the game, and so they set aside less money than was needed to pay the voice actors before the dubbing process began). Really fun video as always. Looking forward to the 7th gen video.
The great crystal the first time round isn't that bad, come out of a waystone portal, check the number, find another waystone, is it lower? Teleport, if not, find another one. Match that with the time honoured "hug the wall" technique and you're golden.
You know a dungeon (read the Great Crystal) is bad when even someone, of all people, who brags about getting extremely good spatial orientation skills gets lost in there.
God, I got so lost in there the first time I played it that I had to use a guide. AND I NEVER USE GUIDES FOR MAIN QUESTS!! FF XII is a marvelous game but I completely removed that hellish dungeon from my mind, what a nightmare
God I'm replaying FF12 right now, trying to 100% it for a second time for Zodiac Age and the idea of having to go in there again... trying to follow confusing maps online... I picked up FF10 again instead, lol, at least I only need to go through the cloister of trials for Bevelle once... 😓😓😓 Sickening. Who designed these dungeons lol...
Atlantica in Kingdom Hearts. You think most mazes are bad? Try a fully 3D one where you can't use most of your moves due to being underwater, and ending with the most annoying boss in the series. Also, for Star Ocean 3 I would nominate Planet Styx over the Firewall. Once you start it, you can't leave or go anywhere else until you're done. No recovery points, no shops, no saving. All enemies are as tough as the BOSS of the previous dungeon or worse, and it's a narrow pathway so they can't be dodged.
Nah, Firewall is definitely worse. At least planet styx can be fairly simple to just blaze through once you know the route and unlike firewall, it doesn't have an extra piece of dungeon tacked onto it's end and no stop and go waiting puzzles. The enemies are manageable once you know how to fight them and there are ways to avoid the icons even without the item that let's you just skirt by them.
Chernabog is more annoying than Ursula imo, but if you think about it they are almost the exact same fight, lol. I didn't have that much of a problem with Ursula as I did with Chernabog though.
#8 - Huh... I can't remember a single dungeon that was bad in Dark Cloud 1. :p It was more like challenging stuff like limited floors, weapons breaking, water, and death/party switching and limited items that were kind of painful... I tried hard to take in stride though. XD
I didnt mind the random generation, i just hated the side characters. The weapon progression system was long enough when producing *one* top tier weapon, but if you want to level each side character and give them decent gear too??? Jeebus
These videos are so in depth the viewer is under the illusion that David has replayed all the rpgs right before the video goes live. No one on the internet has come close to this kind of immersion with rpgs, this kind of seamless fusion. The minute Im no longer a victim of COVID job loss I’ll join on patreon. If there was justice in the world he’d make a living doing just this. Not to keep brown nosing, but give me one example of another UA-cam recreated doing not just this but being very witty and honest and extremely funny. Many others that try, like Eric Landon, have great intentions but I find them unwatchable. Pro Jared does great reviews, but they’re once a year now. Plus all his drama…Jeremy Parrish should have him on retronauts. Regularly. David’s channel is the heart and soul of rpg passion delivered by a natural for this kind of communication. A true artist in his own right.
I love Legaia 2, even the sewers. The only complaint I’d have (if I remember correctly) is that there are keys you need that you can’t get until much later in the story. I’m not fond of being unsure whether I should be able to access a room or not.
The great crystal is easy to navigate... If the path is angled down, you're running lower into the dungeon. If the path is angled up, you're running higher into the dungeon (I.E. closer to Ultima). I don't know how folks can't navigate that thing... it's easy even without a map. There are only a handful of "rooms" on each floor too. Not hard...
If it weren't for the no optional rule I woulda been surprised at the lack of Via Infinito, which starts as an AP farming joke and then becomes a real nightmare to trudge through even on high levelled characters
I love the shadow hearts series but the worst part of Salt Lake is that it's right before dropping a bombshell on you. One I'd say from Shadow Hearts 1 is this cavern one where you fight undead guys who whack you with guns, every area looks exactly the same, and there's no landmarks or map to help you navigate your way through. Another dungeon I'd have to say is the Abyss from Wild Arms 3, oh my lord that one is a pain. A 100 floor dungeon where past the half way mark you have enemies that can steal half your gold and run in the same turn, and another that can EJECT YOU OUT OF THE DUNGEON, which you have to start all over. And mind, the encounter rate is the highest in the game, topped by fighting a superboss at its end, twice!
Man, this video makes me wanna power up the old PS2 again, and play some of those crazy RPG's I barely remember a thing from Rouge Galaxy, but got some weird PTSD when you mentioned that Dungeon
FFX and the cloister of trials caused myself and everyone i saw play the game to let out groans, especially the one you depicted here. When I played through the game a second time I had actually forgotten they were in the game and boy did that make me second guess my playthrough when I got to one. Dark Cloud caught my attention right after the PS2 came out with its Zelda like look and Soul Blazer like town building. After I got past the first city and realized its a copy and paste ordeal for the rest of the game I put that game to bed forever. Dark Cloud 2 is an amazing experience in comparison, fixing the first game's issues in almost every respect. I love the music from Shin Megami Tensei games and the soundtrack with Nocturne is awesome. That game was hard and I felt like it had some of the most difficult moments and places to get through on the PS2 (The matador for instance). Excellent list!
...I liked the White Temple. Maybe because my memory is good enough?... In fact I was more stressed with the Red Temple, since it had that slow animation those arms from the floor had, without mentioning the hazardous red smoke. Yeah, I had float balls (saving money becomes exponentially easy), but the fact I had to uncurse myself going to a specific spot. That was more annoying than just being thrown at the starting point.
As a kid, I spent 4 hours getting to Omega Mk. II in the Great Crystal...only to have it be asleep and unresponsive. Then, it took me 12 hours to get back out. I'm still scarred from that years later.
Fraggly of the Duma Faithful Yeah, you need to have defeated all Espers and the Yiazmat hunt needs to have been started. Some day when the remake is on sale, I’ll go back and finish it.
Oh my god, it just hit me whilst watching these. I have a GREAT idea for a Top 10 list. Top 10 JRPG Water/Sewer levels that DON'T SUCK! Grandia and Earthbound come to mind, their sewer levels were relatively painless.
Really the only thing hard about Wise Owl Forest is the volume of melee-unfriendly enemies there are plus how many of them can poison you. At that point in the game you’re still gimp, the only range character you have is Xiao and you aren’t wealthy enough to keep a healthy supply of bombs and antidote drinks. As for Goro being required to complete the dungeon and defeat the boss, that’s standard for the entire game, even though all you really need him for is the boss and switches that open doors (also standard for later dungeons and the ally you get there). Other than that the entire dungeon can be breezed through with Xiao assuming you’ve leveled her weapons up. The general rule is that the ally you obtain over the course of each dungeon is required to complete it and to defeat the boss. Now if we were talking about bosses, then I think I speak for all of us when I say **** the Ice Queen!
One thing I want to say about GC is that while it is absolutely confusing as all heck, the storyline part actually isn't that bad. The second time through is a nightmare
Final fantasy X is LEGENDARY and ICONIC and if you can’t understand the cloisters then it’s cuz you’re just not avid enough to pass it. Luckily, there’s UA-cam now for those...struggling. Xoxo
I can't understate just how awful the Gladius Towers are...that dungeon goes on and on for ****ing HOURS then...you get to the top...and are told you are only halfway done, the second tower awaits! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF........
Wild Arms 3, The Abyss. It should definitely have been on this list. 100 floors, no saving, and a crazy hard boss at the end of it all, RaguORagula. If you lose, slog thru all 100 floors again.
I understand your point on the great crystal, especially back in the vanilla version where there is no speed up. However, after playing many boring corridor disguised as dungeons, it's definitely one of my favorite dungeons of all time!
Yeah Star Ocean 3 is one of my favorite RPGs but man there are loads of frustrating dungeons in that game. Especially for me was that damn maze forest with the monster trees where you get Roger... ughhhh you need a guide for that shit!
Omega ruins from ffx is far worse than believe cloister of trials. So many game ending encounters in a massive dungeon topped off with a super boss. And the hidden dungeons after clearing Star Ocean 3 is just insane.
The worst thing about The Great Crystal to me is that you have pre-requisites to even get really into it. Like, I can get myself through just fine due to sheer amount of memory I have playing these kinds of missions/story bits, but the fact you need something else to even get the rest of the dungeons collectibles and that there is close to no hint as to what it wants makes this place an absolute CHORE. FFX Cloisters tho? I don’t think so. For someone who can start playing it for the first time, it’s presentable, but my god, when you go through it again, just to get the second cutscene or in case you missed something, it’s dumb. I especially agree to that idea because I’ve beaten the damn game 27 times in my life.
I was hoping Legaia 2's sewer would be on this list, and I am glad it was! That is the only bad part about that entire game, primarily due to Maya still not having her voice yet. After she gets it back though, she is a monster!
when FF14 announced they were doing FF12/Tactics themed Raids... i was dreading it, thinking we'd see Great Crystal. thank god we didnt, i dont think i could handle that hell hole coming back.
I never played Legaia 2, but when I heard the soundtrack played here, I immediately know Hitoshi Sakimoto worked on that. Makes me want to try that game.
Hello David! Just got into your videos, love them to death!! Felt i had to correct you since you are such an RPG expert: it's pronounced "Shin Megami ten-say". Keep up the good work!!
When it comes to Dark Cloud's Wise Owl Forest, while I agree with you that it's probably the worst and most tedious dungeon in the game in terms of gameplay, I found it to have one of the better theme songs and be probably the most atmospheric dungeon.
yes, you may hate them if you don't love puzzle and tacking your time. just because you hate it, it doesn't mean everyone does. this is a classic and they were built at the end of the 90s. At that time the game world was not that advanced and manoeuvring your character in a 360-degree angle, was new to the game world. this puzzle may have been boring to you, but it helped a lot of people think about an event in their life and how they can solve them. p.s even if you say this worldes are fictionalised it still had an aspect that will connect you to the real world or similar event that you will encounter that will force you to behave in the same manner.
I would get the Cloister of Trials complaints if the game had random encounters during these. Even as a kid I never had issues with them and seeing people need a guide is just weird? They are mostly extremely short, Bevelle takes longer for sure, but its still a rather small map and its pretty easy to assume what you are supposed to do. The much bigger sin the game is doing is making your post game and the optional stuff so much harder if you dont use the destruction spheres during the trials. Bevelle Trial is actually the only one you cannot fuck up.
Dark Cloud features several things you don't like, including procedurally-generated dungeons, puzzle elements you don't like, and characters you don't like, plus synthesis. The game was a rather experimental form and I personally think it did alot of things well. Sorry you didn't like, but I didn't really have the problems that you did and I don't know why. I mean, you're suppose to keep all of your characters strong, and for an extremely good reason: Teamwork. They're suppose to work together, as in the system in place to switch out. Toan is the well-rounded guy needed to put the towns and stuff back together, Xiao is the quick long-range fighter, and so on, and so on. You're not suppose to focus on just one. They complement each other by design, and you really need them for that in the bosses, ESPECIALLY the final one.
I recently completed the Great Crystal for the first time on the Zodiac Age version of FFXII. Despite coming prepared with a map provided by the internet, opening those timed gates was an utter pain in the ass. I probably spent a good 3-4 hours in there trying to get the spells (why the FUCK did they put Hastega in this god-forsaken dungeon?!) and Excaliber. My advice would be to do it before the Pharos because Reddas helps out a LOT. Also, get all the treasures and Ultima while you're there, that way the only thing you'll need to come back for is Omega Mark XII.
I agree with this list for the most part though I'd say that Urssa Lava Caves is worse than the fire wall for one big reason: Difficulty spike. The first disk has you fighting mostly HP damaging enemies and MP damaging enemies don't deal much damage. In the Urssa Lava Caves they all deal heavy MP damage to you and if you didn't realize that running out of MP kills you, you're dead. Plus because of how narrow the maze is, you can't avoid any enemies. In the Firewall I just ran past every single enemy and it made things a lot less of a hassle. I do agree though, both of them are awful and both deserve to be mentioned in the list.
I listened intently and I noticed that literally every word regarding The Great Crystal also applies to FFXV's post-game dungeons. The only difference being is that instead of returning to one dungeon repeatedly they put one after the end of every dungeon in the game. I'm still waiting for the biggest JRPG developer to demonstrate that they know the difference between 'long' and 'difficult'.
I like how I didn't have to watch to know that there would be at least one cloister mentioned. Bevelle and Macalania were so fucking annoying. The cloisters are magical in that you can replay the game and still forget how to do them. I've done like 6 seperate playthroughs of FFX and I still struggle like wot
As I have gotten myself into the pokemon and zelda series from nintendo, I can see that the final fantasy series has such crazy places especially when the game takes away the map and compass and any other thing that helps you when they thought that "Oh now that the internet and youtube is a thing, lets take away that stuff from the game to force the player to use other sources to find their way in the dungeon." Did guide books exist for those games?
I don't like boring dungeons like that sewer dungeon in Tales Of Legendia. Sewer dungeon in Legaia 2 had at least some challenge. Even Great Crystal in FF XII is more interesting to me because it actually tests your sanity.
If this was my list, 5 spots would go to Cloisters of Trials. At least the FF12 dungeon that made the list was fun to look at. Another great list. Ive literally watched your list content for hours on end across multiple days. I cant get enough!
The one in Okage Shadow King is the worst to me. The Abyss Maze, I believe. I still haven't got thru it. Need to do a proper let's play on it, because I am so stuck I'll just suffer from the beginning again. Might luck out on the right path this time. I know I finished FFXII as a kid, I don't remember hating any dungeon. Other than Nabradia. I think I remember playing the Shadow Hearts FTNW one, not the best to play. I'm stuck in the mines in Rouge Galaxy and I just have bad memories of Dark Cloud. Good list you put together.
6:00 - I still can't understand how people think THIS is the best game in the Star Ocean series. My best guess is that many people didn't play Star Ocean 2.
In Dark Cloud there were a few tricks to make the dungeons a lot easier. Namely you basically had to all but ignore everyone but Toan and Xiao. Goro was only really useful for hitting the switches and for making it easy to hit the Wise Owl Forest boss by hitting his feet. To do this you had to hit Utan's feet then simply switch to Toan and hit with his powered skill. As for FF XII and the Great Crystal I absolutely have to agree. The only way to get through it is to use a guide that tells you of exactly where to go using the teleporter numbers as a reference.
Ahh the Bevelle Cloister of Trials... It used to take me a long time years ago, but theres a trick to 100% completing that area. In my mind, it was more of an homage to the fact that Bevelle was all about machina, defying their own teachings.
I like the idea of 2 towers like in that Rogue Galaxy dungeon but maybe for a different game, like Zelda. I don't know if that was done already in Zelda, I'm drawing a blank. In Rogue Galaxy, it was such a pain to traverse through! And because I want to explore every nook and cranny, it took longer, especially with random encounters and the layout was confusing to me.
I was wondering if Ff12 Guravagan was going to make it. That dungeon was beautiful but oh so dreadful...I remember being lost for hours in there. Even worse is when you finished the story part of it- I realized I had to go back if I wanted Excalibur and Ultima...the second time was truly the worse especially if you are not high level.
Eh, I don't agree with Wise Owl Forest being on here. Mostly because as somebody who plays alot of rougelikes otherwise (where much of the content is randomly generated, Nethack being a good example, Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead, ect.), I'm not bothered with randomly generated dungeons. The point is to collect loot and level up. You only have to use Goro to press switches and knock the big boss down, you don't need him for the entirety of the dungeon. I'll grant you that having a random key item means there's another 2 key items taking up inventory space, which is annoying, but in Dark Cloud, you are supposed to be collecting spheres anyway to restore the world to it's former glory, so you need to clear the whole main section of the floor anyway, regardless of weather you have the needed key item or not.
When I saw Rouge Galaxy in the thumbnail I knew you were going to talk about those towers. Also the .hack dungeon in your honorable mentions sucks, but .hack//G.U.'s Forest of Pain is far worse, still I'd say it's not as bad as some of the ones you put on the list. Oh and if you want an idea for another list how about worst completion challenge. .hack's got an item completion challenge that unlocks "after" you beat the final boss of the whole series. It's absolutely no fun collecting 700+ items with a 40 item carrying limit, the majority of which is filled up by your equipment and usable items, and at best getting 3 to 5 of those items per dungeon run. Even with a guide this easily takes 2 to 3 times as long as a casual playthrough of the games to complete. It's totally not worth it either as you get an ugly wallpaper for the game's desktop and some pretty uneventful cameo cutscenes.
SacrificAbominat Thrn there's that final dungeon...you know, the one where you have to constantly data drain, and therefore your infection level gets so high that there's always a chance you'll "crash" the game and lose everything :/.
@@wingedmirage4226 Yep and there's two of them, more if you count hidden dungeons for the special trade items. My first playthrough of the dungeon before the final boss was brutal because I was at level 87 when they want you to be at level 90 or above. Even if I got to the boss at the end of that dungeon he was able to wipe my party out at that level. The Last dungeon is actually a little bit easier since I think they throw more normal enemies at you on the later floors, the boss is also much easier by comparison to the other dungeon, but that data corruption is still pretty brutal if you aren't level 99. I only say G.U.'s forest of Pain is worse because it is far longer and the later floors throw some really frustrating enemies and bosses at you.
SacrificAbominat Ah, guess I blended the dungeons in my head. It's been a long time since I've played it. Haven't played the GU series, though I probably should. I got burned out on .hack after the cutesy anime with the wolf girl.
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Davids three laughing Kafkas
Every dungeon in grandia xtreme
"Dishonorable mentions, Persona 3: Tartarus".. soo like 90% of the game then? XD
It's either that boring maze or just going through repetitive high school shit for 95% of the game. Take your pick.
@@HappyH4ppyHappy Hmm, I would say it had one of the best stories out of the Persona game's I've played, but the Dungeon design was really repetitive, so could see why it put some people off.
truthfully, i didn't mind Tartatus, but i do understand why people don't like it. P4 and P5 have much better dungeons and at the very least, they don't feel like they are a drag to get though.
@@benjamintic3653 The battle system and music were the only things I really liked about Persona 3. It was a chore to finish the game. I think 4 is a lot better in terms of characters and social links, and I haven't played 5.
I enjoyed Persona 3 but yes Tartarus sucked. I wasn't a fan of Momentoes in P5 so a game where isn't basically Momentoes the game
"Imagine a dungeon where every room looks exactly the same", Oh you mean persona 3.
Persona 3? More like 3, 4, and 5. I never played the first two, so, I don't know about those.
@@ZERO9098767 How do the ones in 5 look the same? They all have a set and unique design that I found enjoyable and memorable. Fair on 3 and 4 though due to randomly-generated dungeons.
@@Animefan8050 Persona 5 still has the Tatarus-like dungeon, Mementos.
If we're talking about all of the dungeons in the games, then, Persona 3 and 4 both have dungeons that are unique, as well.
Watched lets plays of those and remember them to be corridors too.
Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories was the same. Every world's dungeon had the same design and only varies in shap.
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[0:36] - 10) Bevelle Cloister of Trials - Final Fantasy 10
[1:27] - 9) Uyuni Salt Lake - Shadow Hearts: From the New World
[2:36] - 8) Wise Owl Forest - Dark Cloud
[3:52] - 7) Ravine Caverns - Valkyrie Profile 2
[4:54] - 6) Firewall - Star Ocean 3
[6:05] - 5) The Waterways - Tales of Legendia
[7:03] - 4) The White Temple - SMT: Nocturne
[8:04] - 3) Gladius Towers - Rogue Galaxy
[8:351] - 2) Darakin Sewers - Legaia 2: Duel Saga
[9:53] - 1) The Great Crystal - Final Fantasy 12
The Great Crystal - this dungeon took hours of my life. I went there several times, but my most scaring memory was when I first went to get Ultima, spent hours trying to get to her, even with a sketched map, and after I finally made it to the fight... I could not beat Ultima. I kept dying, ran out of healing items and was just so mentally drained from figuring out how to get to her.... That I ended up giving up, going all the way back out of the crystal, went to buy items and sh*t and then came back to do it all again. To this day, Omega is there waiting, getting rusty as I just couldn't bring myself to do it all over again.... That and Yazmat (he's still at half health on my saved game, waiting for me to finish him).
Once I got Yazmat down to his last bar and didn't notice he cast reflect on the party then one of Ashe's Restore All gambits triggered... Well, there was certainly a short glitch, but yep- in an instant all 50 bars refilled. Momentarily overclocked the games engine probably- the sudden value change of +49,000,000 HP. Talk about demoralizing. His doubled level effect remained as well... Good times...
It's a good thing that most of the Great Crystal isn't accessible until we complete the story part that forces us to go through it...otherwise this nightmare of a dungeon would be straight up unbearable. It's even worse that the nearest warp crystal is pretty much at the start of Giruvegan, the previous dungeon...which requires us to go through the Feywood first 🤦♂️
Dude, I'm never gonna play more than half of these games, but I could listen to you and your arms talk about them all damn day
LOL I watched just to confirm that The Great Crystal was number 1
I didn't fully read the title of this vid
So I saw "top 10 worst rpg" and saw the thumbnail and was almost triggered 😝
It got me too 😄
Rogue Galaxy was too good to be true at the time tbh
same here
Same AF lol
Saaaaaaame
The Great Crystal was made to be a nightmare, I remember it being stated somewhere in the Ultimania for the game that they threw it in as a challenge...they certainly succeeded.
Heh, Tales of Backtrackia.
To be fair I feel like I hated every dungeon in Star Ocean 3
I completely agree about FFXII's dungeon. That place nearly made me quit the game outright, back when it came out. I'm glad I stuck it through, but good lord, what a slog.
I actually like the FFX Cloisters, but even I have to agree that Bevelle is abysmal, which is why I suggested it
I like the cloisters, too. The only thing I have against Bevelle is that you can accidentally take a wrong turn at the end and miss the treasure.
The Ice Cavern in FFIX has the same problem, too. Take one wrong turn and instead of a save point, you’re up against arguably the most difficult battle in the game.
All of the Cloisters are easy. The only thing that makes it annoying is the control. It's tedious because you have to stop on pointless platforms so you can lower your speed. If it wasn't for that, it would be just another easy one. Even easier since it's the easiest of the secret puzzles in the cloisters.
Draco Errarus last year I downloaded it on ps4 and started playing it again. This is exactly what happened to me. Got stuck in that battle for Idaho’s dam long lol
@@dracoerrarus4834 Actually, that part in FFIX is quite clever. There is a crossroad: on the right, there is a terrible storm; were as, on the left, there is a calm weather; if you go right it's your fault, because the game actually suggest you what the right turn is.
Andrea Cuozzo Alternatively, the right looks like the rest of the dungeon you’ve been going through, while the left has a warm light suggesting you’re stepping into a new area that is just as likely to have a boss. Sure, in retrospect I know what it is, but first time through was frustrating.
A good design would have eliminated all doubt. The moogle could have been along the path. It could have been in a side room instead of after a fork in the road. They could have left some other hint that a moogle was in the left room, like a sign or moogle footprints. Cleverness just isn’t enough when a wrong choice sets you back at least 10-20 minutes to your last save.
I think Great Crystal from FFXII is by far the worst dungeon in all the PS2 rpg era
Ridley Grey I love that game but that is the worst dungeon ever.
Absolutely! especially if you are trying to get that secret esper.
It and the pharos when you try to face a certain hunt
Thankfully, the worst part is only available on the second visit onward, but without a map, tons of annoying enemies, teleporters and all...Hell, I did the story part of the map blind and took a good hour and a half to do It!
Exactly
Rogue Galaxy is a classic
the towers are a good concept that hadn't really been used in years. on the other hand, they made them FAR to long
Insectron mini game is what I really love😂
@@agungfirmansyahmuhariri2066 yup
The Towers just took forever to complete. I liked them being the opposite of each other though.
Currently playing through it again and honestly I feel like all the dungeons are slightly too long but other then that it's one of my favs
In Tales of Legendia, the Japanese version was actually fully voiced for the whole game; the English version just got messed up because of a misunderstanding on the part of the localization team (they thought 'Character Quests' were just short sidequests, not the second half of the game, and so they set aside less money than was needed to pay the voice actors before the dubbing process began).
Really fun video as always. Looking forward to the 7th gen video.
You think they’ll ever do a remaster of the older Tales games?
@@bluecoin3771 They're doing a remaster of Symphonia, so it's definitely entirely possible that the others will eventually follow.
Dark Cloud huh? The owl forest wasn't really that bad it was the fact that you had to level grind your new party member. Lots of repair powder needed
The great crystal the first time round isn't that bad, come out of a waystone portal, check the number, find another waystone, is it lower? Teleport, if not, find another one. Match that with the time honoured "hug the wall" technique and you're golden.
I have actually experienced most of these dungeons here, and can attest that yes, they were pretty awful.
You know a dungeon (read the Great Crystal) is bad when even someone, of all people, who brags about getting extremely good spatial orientation skills gets lost in there.
God, I got so lost in there the first time I played it that I had to use a guide. AND I NEVER USE GUIDES FOR MAIN QUESTS!! FF XII is a marvelous game but I completely removed that hellish dungeon from my mind, what a nightmare
That Shin Megami Tensei Song everyone is looking for is called Real Map Large Universe. You’re welcome.
God I'm replaying FF12 right now, trying to 100% it for a second time for Zodiac Age and the idea of having to go in there again... trying to follow confusing maps online... I picked up FF10 again instead, lol, at least I only need to go through the cloister of trials for Bevelle once... 😓😓😓 Sickening. Who designed these dungeons lol...
Oh lord, I had forgotten complete about that damn Star Ocean rolly hell... thanks for reopening my scars david
Technically the firewall is an extra area so you don't actually have to do it. With that said I really hated the Mosel Ruins.
Atlantica in Kingdom Hearts. You think most mazes are bad? Try a fully 3D one where you can't use most of your moves due to being underwater, and ending with the most annoying boss in the series.
Also, for Star Ocean 3 I would nominate Planet Styx over the Firewall. Once you start it, you can't leave or go anywhere else until you're done. No recovery points, no shops, no saving. All enemies are as tough as the BOSS of the previous dungeon or worse, and it's a narrow pathway so they can't be dodged.
What? Atlantica wasn't bad at all ...
Usually, I would agree, except Atlantica does not count as a dungeon, since it is a world. Kingdom Hearts technically doesn't do dungeons.
@@SoulboundAlchemist Dungeon is just a generic term used to describe a level or platform dude...
Nah, Firewall is definitely worse. At least planet styx can be fairly simple to just blaze through once you know the route and unlike firewall, it doesn't have an extra piece of dungeon tacked onto it's end and no stop and go waiting puzzles. The enemies are manageable once you know how to fight them and there are ways to avoid the icons even without the item that let's you just skirt by them.
Chernabog is more annoying than Ursula imo, but if you think about it they are almost the exact same fight, lol. I didn't have that much of a problem with Ursula as I did with Chernabog though.
#8 - Huh... I can't remember a single dungeon that was bad in Dark Cloud 1. :p It was more like challenging stuff like limited floors, weapons breaking, water, and death/party switching and limited items that were kind of painful... I tried hard to take in stride though. XD
I didnt mind the random generation, i just hated the side characters. The weapon progression system was long enough when producing *one* top tier weapon, but if you want to level each side character and give them decent gear too??? Jeebus
I love the addition of karma from tales of the abyss. Thank you for this
Everyone's favorite dungeon theme: Sewers
Everyone's favorite puzzle mechanic: anything that has to do with managing elevations.
These videos are so in depth the viewer is under the illusion that David has replayed all the rpgs right before the video goes live. No one on the internet has come close to this kind of immersion with rpgs, this kind of seamless fusion. The minute Im no longer a victim of COVID job loss I’ll join on patreon. If there was justice in the world he’d make a living doing just this.
Not to keep brown nosing, but give me one example of another UA-cam recreated doing not just this but being very witty and honest and extremely funny. Many others that try, like Eric Landon, have great intentions but I find them unwatchable. Pro Jared does great reviews, but they’re once a year now. Plus all his drama…Jeremy Parrish should have him on retronauts. Regularly. David’s channel is the heart and soul of rpg passion delivered by a natural for this kind of communication. A true artist in his own right.
I love Legaia 2, even the sewers. The only complaint I’d have (if I remember correctly) is that there are keys you need that you can’t get until much later in the story. I’m not fond of being unsure whether I should be able to access a room or not.
Yeah, I loved legaia, both 1 & 2.
The great crystal is easy to navigate...
If the path is angled down, you're running lower into the dungeon.
If the path is angled up, you're running higher into the dungeon (I.E. closer to Ultima).
I don't know how folks can't navigate that thing... it's easy even without a map.
There are only a handful of "rooms" on each floor too. Not hard...
If it weren't for the no optional rule I woulda been surprised at the lack of Via Infinito, which starts as an AP farming joke and then becomes a real nightmare to trudge through even on high levelled characters
I love the shadow hearts series but the worst part of Salt Lake is that it's right before dropping a bombshell on you. One I'd say from Shadow Hearts 1 is this cavern one where you fight undead guys who whack you with guns, every area looks exactly the same, and there's no landmarks or map to help you navigate your way through. Another dungeon I'd have to say is the Abyss from Wild Arms 3, oh my lord that one is a pain. A 100 floor dungeon where past the half way mark you have enemies that can steal half your gold and run in the same turn, and another that can EJECT YOU OUT OF THE DUNGEON, which you have to start all over. And mind, the encounter rate is the highest in the game, topped by fighting a superboss at its end, twice!
Rogue Galaxy has some nightmares like that.
Man, this video makes me wanna power up the old PS2 again, and play some of those crazy RPG's I barely remember a thing from Rouge Galaxy, but got some weird PTSD when you mentioned that Dungeon
oh yeah FireWall in Star Ocean was baaaaad.
I didn't think it was THAT bad. If anything, I think Styx was worse
Ah the Great Crystal, you need to draw your own map of the area to navigate this giant maze
FFX and the cloister of trials caused myself and everyone i saw play the game to let out groans, especially the one you depicted here. When I played through the game a second time I had actually forgotten they were in the game and boy did that make me second guess my playthrough when I got to one. Dark Cloud caught my attention right after the PS2 came out with its Zelda like look and Soul Blazer like town building. After I got past the first city and realized its a copy and paste ordeal for the rest of the game I put that game to bed forever. Dark Cloud 2 is an amazing experience in comparison, fixing the first game's issues in almost every respect.
I love the music from Shin Megami Tensei games and the soundtrack with Nocturne is awesome. That game was hard and I felt like it had some of the most difficult moments and places to get through on the PS2 (The matador for instance). Excellent list!
...I liked the White Temple. Maybe because my memory is good enough?... In fact I was more stressed with the Red Temple, since it had that slow animation those arms from the floor had, without mentioning the hazardous red smoke. Yeah, I had float balls (saving money becomes exponentially easy), but the fact I had to uncurse myself going to a specific spot. That was more annoying than just being thrown at the starting point.
Your videos are just the basic ones I like were now a days youtubers are over the top, you got yourself a subscriber.
I always thought that Dark Cloud was a legend of Zelda fan game because of the cover
As a kid, I spent 4 hours getting to Omega Mk. II in the Great Crystal...only to have it be asleep and unresponsive. Then, it took me 12 hours to get back out. I'm still scarred from that years later.
Did you ever figure out how to wake it up?
Fraggly of the Duma Faithful
Yeah, you need to have defeated all Espers and the Yiazmat hunt needs to have been started. Some day when the remake is on sale, I’ll go back and finish it.
Oh my god, it just hit me whilst watching these. I have a GREAT idea for a Top 10 list. Top 10 JRPG Water/Sewer levels that DON'T SUCK! Grandia and Earthbound come to mind, their sewer levels were relatively painless.
Any randomly generated dungeon when you are RNG cursed. I've had major RGD disasters.
Really the only thing hard about Wise Owl Forest is the volume of melee-unfriendly enemies there are plus how many of them can poison you. At that point in the game you’re still gimp, the only range character you have is Xiao and you aren’t wealthy enough to keep a healthy supply of bombs and antidote drinks. As for Goro being required to complete the dungeon and defeat the boss, that’s standard for the entire game, even though all you really need him for is the boss and switches that open doors (also standard for later dungeons and the ally you get there). Other than that the entire dungeon can be breezed through with Xiao assuming you’ve leveled her weapons up. The general rule is that the ally you obtain over the course of each dungeon is required to complete it and to defeat the boss. Now if we were talking about bosses, then I think I speak for all of us when I say **** the Ice Queen!
One thing I want to say about GC is that while it is absolutely confusing as all heck, the storyline part actually isn't that bad. The second time through is a nightmare
Final fantasy X is LEGENDARY and ICONIC and if you can’t understand the cloisters then it’s cuz you’re just not avid enough to pass it. Luckily, there’s UA-cam now for those...struggling. Xoxo
I can't understate just how awful the Gladius Towers are...that dungeon goes on and on for ****ing HOURS
then...you get to the top...and are told you are only halfway done, the second tower awaits!
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF........
Wild Arms 3, The Abyss. It should definitely have been on this list. 100 floors, no saving, and a crazy hard boss at the end of it all, RaguORagula. If you lose, slog thru all 100 floors again.
I understand your point on the great crystal, especially back in the vanilla version where there is no speed up. However, after playing many boring corridor disguised as dungeons, it's definitely one of my favorite dungeons of all time!
#10: This maze interrupts the DVD menu known as FFX
#9: "I hate puzzles"
...
That FF12 dungeon really was a nightmare...
I played and beat Legaia 2 and remember nothing about it.
Try playing it again, if you want to refresh your memory. But try to cook in it. That was always fun to me.
Yeah Star Ocean 3 is one of my favorite RPGs but man there are loads of frustrating dungeons in that game. Especially for me was that damn maze forest with the monster trees where you get Roger... ughhhh you need a guide for that shit!
The mine made me rage quit
Damn beast section
Omega ruins from ffx is far worse than believe cloister of trials. So many game ending encounters in a massive dungeon topped off with a super boss.
And the hidden dungeons after clearing Star Ocean 3 is just insane.
The worst thing about The Great Crystal to me is that you have pre-requisites to even get really into it. Like, I can get myself through just fine due to sheer amount of memory I have playing these kinds of missions/story bits, but the fact you need something else to even get the rest of the dungeons collectibles and that there is close to no hint as to what it wants makes this place an absolute CHORE.
FFX Cloisters tho? I don’t think so. For someone who can start playing it for the first time, it’s presentable, but my god, when you go through it again, just to get the second cutscene or in case you missed something, it’s dumb. I especially agree to that idea because I’ve beaten the damn game 27 times in my life.
I didn't mind the Great Crystal, maybe because I played the Zodiac Age with the speed up on. The rewards were at least very worthwhile.
I was hoping Legaia 2's sewer would be on this list, and I am glad it was! That is the only bad part about that entire game, primarily due to Maya still not having her voice yet. After she gets it back though, she is a monster!
when FF14 announced they were doing FF12/Tactics themed Raids... i was dreading it, thinking we'd see Great Crystal. thank god we didnt, i dont think i could handle that hell hole coming back.
Just because you suck at it, doesn't mean they are the worst.
Yeah, had to download a map of the great crystal so I could find the shit without getting lost.
god the fact that shadow hearts ftnw is even remembered these days makes me so happy. ;_; and full agreement on the great crystal...
I never played Legaia 2, but when I heard the soundtrack played here, I immediately know Hitoshi Sakimoto worked on that. Makes me want to try that game.
It's a good game def not as good as 1 characters wise but the combat is top notch
Nice series of videos!
I do wonder, though, if Best Dungeons videos are coming sometime.
Hello David!
Just got into your videos, love them to death!! Felt i had to correct you since you are such an RPG expert: it's pronounced "Shin Megami ten-say". Keep up the good work!!
You do get a feeling of accomplishment when you're done with the Great Crystal
And that's what made it my fav dungeon!
When it comes to Dark Cloud's Wise Owl Forest, while I agree with you that it's probably the worst and most tedious dungeon in the game in terms of gameplay, I found it to have one of the better theme songs and be probably the most atmospheric dungeon.
I mean post game dungeon is a 100 floors hell
@@pablo8286 The whole point of that dungeon was to be tedious though.
@@IncarnationOfNeutrality You've got a point there
yes, you may hate them if you don't love puzzle and tacking your time. just because you hate it, it doesn't mean everyone does. this is a classic and they were built at the end of the 90s. At that time the game world was not that advanced and manoeuvring your character in a 360-degree angle, was new to the game world. this puzzle may have been boring to you, but it helped a lot of people think about an event in their life and how they can solve them.
p.s even if you say this worldes are fictionalised it still had an aspect that will connect you to the real world or similar event that you will encounter that will force you to behave in the same manner.
The Gladius towers aren’t a difficulty spike, they are a difficulty wall lol.
I would get the Cloister of Trials complaints if the game had random encounters during these. Even as a kid I never had issues with them and seeing people need a guide is just weird? They are mostly extremely short, Bevelle takes longer for sure, but its still a rather small map and its pretty easy to assume what you are supposed to do. The much bigger sin the game is doing is making your post game and the optional stuff so much harder if you dont use the destruction spheres during the trials. Bevelle Trial is actually the only one you cannot fuck up.
Dark Cloud features several things you don't like, including procedurally-generated dungeons, puzzle elements you don't like, and characters you don't like, plus synthesis. The game was a rather experimental form and I personally think it did alot of things well. Sorry you didn't like, but I didn't really have the problems that you did and I don't know why. I mean, you're suppose to keep all of your characters strong, and for an extremely good reason: Teamwork. They're suppose to work together, as in the system in place to switch out. Toan is the well-rounded guy needed to put the towns and stuff back together, Xiao is the quick long-range fighter, and so on, and so on. You're not suppose to focus on just one. They complement each other by design, and you really need them for that in the bosses, ESPECIALLY the final one.
I recently completed the Great Crystal for the first time on the Zodiac Age version of FFXII. Despite coming prepared with a map provided by the internet, opening those timed gates was an utter pain in the ass. I probably spent a good 3-4 hours in there trying to get the spells (why the FUCK did they put Hastega in this god-forsaken dungeon?!) and Excaliber.
My advice would be to do it before the Pharos because Reddas helps out a LOT. Also, get all the treasures and Ultima while you're there, that way the only thing you'll need to come back for is Omega Mark XII.
I agree with this list for the most part though I'd say that Urssa Lava Caves is worse than the fire wall for one big reason: Difficulty spike.
The first disk has you fighting mostly HP damaging enemies and MP damaging enemies don't deal much damage. In the Urssa Lava Caves they all deal heavy MP damage to you and if you didn't realize that running out of MP kills you, you're dead. Plus because of how narrow the maze is, you can't avoid any enemies.
In the Firewall I just ran past every single enemy and it made things a lot less of a hassle. I do agree though, both of them are awful and both deserve to be mentioned in the list.
I listened intently and I noticed that literally every word regarding The Great Crystal also applies to FFXV's post-game dungeons. The only difference being is that instead of returning to one dungeon repeatedly they put one after the end of every dungeon in the game. I'm still waiting for the biggest JRPG developer to demonstrate that they know the difference between 'long' and 'difficult'.
The only things that make Great Crystal tolerable are the facts that Speed Mode exists and Excalibur.
"speed mode exists"
*Sad PS2 original version noise*
Literally had to draw a map by myself to make Great Crystal at least somehow bearable
I agree. Rogue Galaxy has shitty dungeons. It's a shame because the game is great
Having to walk back to the entrance of dungeons AFTER finishing them in Legendia was zzzZzZzzz...such a god awful decision.
I was starting to get nervous not seeing that FF12 crystal. It is the single worst dungeon I've played in any RPG hands down.
LoDarkDark Cloud's dungeons look the same but ask any player if they are every bored with them? No. Never.
I like how I didn't have to watch to know that there would be at least one cloister mentioned. Bevelle and Macalania were so fucking annoying. The cloisters are magical in that you can replay the game and still forget how to do them. I've done like 6 seperate playthroughs of FFX and I still struggle like wot
As I have gotten myself into the pokemon and zelda series from nintendo, I can see that the final fantasy series has such crazy places especially when the game takes away the map and compass and any other thing that helps you when they thought that "Oh now that the internet and youtube is a thing, lets take away that stuff from the game to force the player to use other sources to find their way in the dungeon." Did guide books exist for those games?
I don't like boring dungeons like that sewer dungeon in Tales Of Legendia. Sewer dungeon in Legaia 2 had at least some challenge. Even Great Crystal in FF XII is more interesting to me because it actually tests your sanity.
Sewere dungeon in the first legiaia was no joke either
If this was my list, 5 spots would go to Cloisters of Trials. At least the FF12 dungeon that made the list was fun to look at. Another great list. Ive literally watched your list content for hours on end across multiple days. I cant get enough!
yeah, you just don't like dungeons where you have to think or use your own memory or draw a map.
The one in Okage Shadow King is the worst to me. The Abyss Maze, I believe. I still haven't got thru it. Need to do a proper let's play on it, because I am so stuck I'll just suffer from the beginning again. Might luck out on the right path this time. I know I finished FFXII as a kid, I don't remember hating any dungeon. Other than Nabradia. I think I remember playing the Shadow Hearts FTNW one, not the best to play. I'm stuck in the mines in Rouge Galaxy and I just have bad memories of Dark Cloud. Good list you put together.
Cloister of trials beville is so tedious. 😅
I saw people speedrun it in 10 minutes so from now on I use that to navigate through that part.
6:00 - I still can't understand how people think THIS is the best game in the Star Ocean series. My best guess is that many people didn't play Star Ocean 2.
Or the last hope... Or any of them other then the new one (sorry new one was trash 2)
In Dark Cloud there were a few tricks to make the dungeons a lot easier. Namely you basically had to all but ignore everyone but Toan and Xiao. Goro was only really useful for hitting the switches and for making it easy to hit the Wise Owl Forest boss by hitting his feet. To do this you had to hit Utan's feet then simply switch to Toan and hit with his powered skill.
As for FF XII and the Great Crystal I absolutely have to agree. The only way to get through it is to use a guide that tells you of exactly where to go using the teleporter numbers as a reference.
Ahh the Bevelle Cloister of Trials... It used to take me a long time years ago, but theres a trick to 100% completing that area. In my mind, it was more of an homage to the fact that Bevelle was all about machina, defying their own teachings.
I like the idea of 2 towers like in that Rogue Galaxy dungeon but maybe for a different game, like Zelda. I don't know if that was done already in Zelda, I'm drawing a blank. In Rogue Galaxy, it was such a pain to traverse through! And because I want to explore every nook and cranny, it took longer, especially with random encounters and the layout was confusing to me.
I enjoyed Dark Cloud and Final Fantasy X, this seems to be less about this guys in ability to beat and complete these games then the actual gameplay.
At least the Great Crystal had cool BGM. I hope they fixed it in the remake. :3
I was wondering if Ff12 Guravagan was going to make it. That dungeon was beautiful but oh so dreadful...I remember being lost for hours in there. Even worse is when you finished the story part of it- I realized I had to go back if I wanted Excalibur and Ultima...the second time was truly the worse especially if you are not high level.
Going to the sewer in Legaia 2 the second time was even worse. I couldn't even clear those horrible torch puzzles without a strategy guide
Eh, I don't agree with Wise Owl Forest being on here. Mostly because as somebody who plays alot of rougelikes otherwise (where much of the content is randomly generated, Nethack being a good example, Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead, ect.), I'm not bothered with randomly generated dungeons. The point is to collect loot and level up. You only have to use Goro to press switches and knock the big boss down, you don't need him for the entirety of the dungeon. I'll grant you that having a random key item means there's another 2 key items taking up inventory space, which is annoying, but in Dark Cloud, you are supposed to be collecting spheres anyway to restore the world to it's former glory, so you need to clear the whole main section of the floor anyway, regardless of weather you have the needed key item or not.
The Great Crystal was a horrible challenge back in the day. Even today, that we have access to online maps of that zone is quite difficult to follow
When I saw Rouge Galaxy in the thumbnail I knew you were going to talk about those towers. Also the .hack dungeon in your honorable mentions sucks, but .hack//G.U.'s Forest of Pain is far worse, still I'd say it's not as bad as some of the ones you put on the list.
Oh and if you want an idea for another list how about worst completion challenge. .hack's got an item completion challenge that unlocks "after" you beat the final boss of the whole series. It's absolutely no fun collecting 700+ items with a 40 item carrying limit, the majority of which is filled up by your equipment and usable items, and at best getting 3 to 5 of those items per dungeon run. Even with a guide this easily takes 2 to 3 times as long as a casual playthrough of the games to complete. It's totally not worth it either as you get an ugly wallpaper for the game's desktop and some pretty uneventful cameo cutscenes.
SacrificAbominat Thrn there's that final dungeon...you know, the one where you have to constantly data drain, and therefore your infection level gets so high that there's always a chance you'll "crash" the game and lose everything :/.
@@wingedmirage4226 Yep and there's two of them, more if you count hidden dungeons for the special trade items. My first playthrough of the dungeon before the final boss was brutal because I was at level 87 when they want you to be at level 90 or above. Even if I got to the boss at the end of that dungeon he was able to wipe my party out at that level. The Last dungeon is actually a little bit easier since I think they throw more normal enemies at you on the later floors, the boss is also much easier by comparison to the other dungeon, but that data corruption is still pretty brutal if you aren't level 99.
I only say G.U.'s forest of Pain is worse because it is far longer and the later floors throw some really frustrating enemies and bosses at you.
SacrificAbominat Ah, guess I blended the dungeons in my head. It's been a long time since I've played it.
Haven't played the GU series, though I probably should. I got burned out on .hack after the cutesy anime with the wolf girl.
@@wingedmirage4226 G.U. got remastered recently, so you can play it on the PS4 or PC. Yeah Legend of the Twilight, the anime, wasn't that good.
Summoner 1, Sewers.
Couldn't have picked a more perfect #1...
so glad that fixed that in the zodiac age with the minimap button
@Crystal Phoenix well when u consider the fact that said overlay is your only means of easy navigation in rooms where the map is disabled.............
I actually love DARK Cloud 2. That game made randomly generated dungeons and it was amazing!