Matt I want to thank you so much for recommending the Noosa Tri and the DS Trainer 26. Both have been fantastic shoes for me and I even recently set a half marathon PR in the Noosa. You're doing a fantastic job there!
I over pronate and I raced in Hoka Rocket X and while it's not the fastest I was surprised how stable they compared to e.g Nike vaporfly where I can see clearly my feet falling to the inside. On the daily trainer the Mach 4 had been amazing. The mix of outsole makes it a super shoe where I don't pronate on it.
you dont need to correct ur pronation with a shoes, it's just a gimmick, just work on ur glutes and hips, pronation is just a natural way for ur body, dont try to correct it with a stability shoes, i overpronate, i get injured with stability shoes as it tries to correct my feet rolling, i only use neutral shoes now and no problem
Just love (yet again!) how your channel takes a non-traditional (for YT) look at shoes and shoe categories. Shoes as tools, and how to categorize them and acknowledge their benefits and limitations. I really wanted to make the DS Trainer work for HIIT, but it is definitely narrow/tight in the midfoot. I just can't get enough room to justify them. I doubt they'll ever get a wide version or a last change but if they fit your foot the rest of that shoe is really unique and dialed in for its purpose.
I think the Hoka Rocket X are a great option. They are lightweight, breathable and very stable due to a bit wider platform. I love them as a training option and would definetly race in them up to the marathon.
Been using the wave rebellion for workouts and the noosa tri for tempo/long runs. Love them. I hope you guys review Altra’s vanish carbon shoe when it comes out. Supposed to be one of the more stable options.
initially I disliked the hoka x2's I blamed them for a glute issue etc, but as time went by and I took them over 200 miles, they are probably my favorite shoe I have owned.. they do not feel as fun as my vaporfly's or echo boom's but they were very Solid never, fit well and I got consistently good times over 13 miles. I will be purchasing the x3's when they come out in the UK
Thx! Great overview. Got the Asics Gel DS Trainer 26, but had to stop using it, cause of some achilis heel issues in General. Right now my lightest option is the Brooks GTS 21.
Thanks. Informative as ever. I'm using the 361 KAIROS mainly at the moment. Generally wear ASICS KAYANO but can honestly say this new 361 product is a tremendous combination of cushioning and support. Especially gives the heel lockdown that many other shoes fail to offer me. At £125 in the Uk it's good value.
@@Gerlfcbobby At 73 I'm afraid my marathon days are long gone! Did 26 under 3 hours (best 2;25.35) I would say anyone looking for sub 3 might look for a lighter supportive shoe (not easy!) but over 3 would be worth a shot. The popular plated shoes are in the main neutral and I know have injured many slower runners. But as I suggested finding a lightweight shoe with medial support is not easy. Fastwich? Endorphin Shift? DS Trainer.?
I roll inwards a bit too but have been able to use a few of the super shoes (Adios Pro 2 and Endorphin Pro). One that has worked well for me thats not plated but I enjoy is the Skechers GoRun Razor Excess. Did 17 miles yesterday with 10 miles at 10 mile to HM pace in them and they felt great throughout. Love how light they are. Might give the DS 26 a look, I had a pair of DS 24 and din't hate them but didn't love them. Might just stick with the fastwitch though.
Would you recommend the Mach 4 as Marathon racer? I suppose the tick all the boxes for a non-plated racer (and it was one of your favorite daily trainers for 2021!)
I was hoping you’d talk about the 361 flame. I work in a uk speciality retail store and it’s the first one I point people towards if they’re after something more stable
What is your opinion of ASICS Kayano for a race shoe. I have used them for a marathon shoe in the past but I’m considering a lighter “race shoe” that still provides some stability.
The speed freek is fairly stable upfront, but not in the heel. It compresses very easily in the rear. Most super shoes are relatively stable in that way though, so we don’t entirely recommend it.
@@ptlewis2000 No I haven’t I just got them at Christmas. Longest run was a 25k on a treadmill. No issues with the arch but I know exactly where you’re coming from, my first few runs in them that was my main concern but after a k or 2 I don’t notice it at all now. Overall a forgiving shoe for us older runners
@@chrismackenzie28 I bought them anyway... and that arch was too much for my flat feet, despite good form. And it made me bounce up more than forward. So it's back to VF2, Endo Pro, or Zoom Fly 4 for the Marathon. FYI- took my VF2 out and it's still the fastest shoe for shorter long races, but scared to do another Marathon in them for the last 6-8 miles.
@@ptlewis2000 Hi Paul, I didn't see any Nike options on the video and you seem to be experienced with Nike. My daily runners are the Nike Zoom Invincible ,which I love and don't hurt my feet, ankles or knees. My racing shoes (8 months of experience) are the Nike Zoom Tempo Next% and my arches, knees, and ankles take severe damage to the point I can't walk for a few days after a half marathon. Could you recommend a Nike shoe that has a wider midfoot but is still fast enough to race in?
Is it just me, or does Matt seem a bit defensive starting off this video? “Like alright you assholes messaging me and commenting that stability gets no love! Listen up and then shut up!!” Haha! I feel attacked. I decided to try my own experiments and I’m all in with Zoom Fly 4 (not 1-3) for Marathon (Endorphin Pro on deck and being used for SOS workouts currently). VaporFly for half. And going back to my Fastwitch and DS Trainers for summer 5k 10k training. I don’t do Brooks or Hoka because they are never on sale. No need to fall in love with a shoe I can’t get last years model on discount. Speaking of DS Trainer, I had to learn how to run again when I dusted it off. All this cushion makes us afraid to touch the ground these days. Once I relaxed and got reacquainted with feeling the road, the DS became fun and fast again. Now that I’m back to team ASICS will also try the Evoride…. On sale of course.
Paul!! I hope that isn’t the impression I gave!! It might be due to this being the 3-4th take it took for me not to mess up significantly enough to stop! This was a video inspired by my own search and wanting to put this information out there! Glad you’re enjoying the DS trainer. I had the EXACT same experience as you and have been slowly pulling out older racing/training shoes I used to use. Give your body time and it adapts! Thanks for the feedback! -Matt
@@DoctorsofRunning hey Matt. Sorry I was totally kidding. I really appreciate you doing this content! One thing I also noticed is I do a lot better no matter what almost stable shoe I race in to be diligent and disciplined to train in the right daily trainers. In my case we determined it’s the Kayano/2000 family and DS Trainers. For some reason the Zoom Fly family really works for me as well. Didn’t get injured until I experimented with other shoes, including stability.
STABILITY shoes still have a bad rep....i think nost see them as "orthapedic" shoes. "What's wrong with that guy?? He or she isn't running in Vaporfly's"..... "High stack height"--cmopany marketing. the igher you are off the ground the LeSS handling you have...just as it is the case for carstrucks/SUV's...."lower/wider--better handling. Focusing on "max cushion/stack height" has IMHO made most runners lazy. NOT working on what's "behind" the shoe....our joints/muscle strength/stamina/Proper Form11 Making the high stack height "race shoe" a crutch for their lack of conditioning/proper form.. I see so many runners o the street with bad form and were likely never "analyzed" by a running coach/team....have bad knees...etc....
Matt I want to thank you so much for recommending the Noosa Tri and the DS Trainer 26. Both have been fantastic shoes for me and I even recently set a half marathon PR in the Noosa. You're doing a fantastic job there!
I over pronate and I raced in Hoka Rocket X and while it's not the fastest I was surprised how stable they compared to e.g Nike vaporfly where I can see clearly my feet falling to the inside. On the daily trainer the Mach 4 had been amazing. The mix of outsole makes it a super shoe where I don't pronate on it.
I just blew out my posterior tibial tendon in the rocket X when a group road run turned onto off camber dirt!
you dont need to correct ur pronation with a shoes, it's just a gimmick, just work on ur glutes and hips, pronation is just a natural way for ur body, dont try to correct it with a stability shoes, i overpronate, i get injured with stability shoes as it tries to correct my feet rolling, i only use neutral shoes now and no problem
@@jaymueller2418 How's your injury now? What shoes do you race in now?
Just love (yet again!) how your channel takes a non-traditional (for YT) look at shoes and shoe categories. Shoes as tools, and how to categorize them and acknowledge their benefits and limitations. I really wanted to make the DS Trainer work for HIIT, but it is definitely narrow/tight in the midfoot. I just can't get enough room to justify them. I doubt they'll ever get a wide version or a last change but if they fit your foot the rest of that shoe is really unique and dialed in for its purpose.
Rocket X, Magic Speed, and Flight Vectiv works well for me, but only "semi-super". RC Elite 2 feels pretty stable though.
THIS IS THE VIDEO I HAVE BEEEEEEN LOOKING FOR!!!
I think the Hoka Rocket X are a great option. They are lightweight, breathable and very stable due to a bit wider platform. I love them as a training option and would definetly race in them up to the marathon.
Been using the wave rebellion for workouts and the noosa tri for tempo/long runs. Love them.
I hope you guys review Altra’s vanish carbon shoe when it comes out. Supposed to be one of the more stable options.
Hoka Rocket X, very stable (kind of) super shoe !!
What about puma deviate nitro elite? It got an A and A- in stability on the written review, I thought they would be in this video
initially I disliked the hoka x2's I blamed them for a glute issue etc, but as time went by and I took them over 200 miles, they are probably my favorite shoe I have owned.. they do not feel as fun as my vaporfly's or echo boom's but they were very Solid never, fit well and I got consistently good times over 13 miles. I will be purchasing the x3's when they come out in the UK
Thx! Great overview. Got the Asics Gel DS Trainer 26, but had to stop using it, cause of some achilis heel issues in General. Right now my lightest option is the Brooks GTS 21.
Thanks. Informative as ever. I'm using the 361 KAIROS mainly at the moment. Generally wear ASICS KAYANO but can honestly say this new 361 product is a tremendous combination of cushioning and support. Especially gives the heel lockdown that many other shoes fail to offer me. At £125 in the Uk it's good value.
would u run a marathon in it
@@Gerlfcbobby At 73 I'm afraid my marathon days are long gone! Did 26 under 3 hours (best 2;25.35) I would say anyone looking for sub 3 might look for a lighter supportive shoe (not easy!) but over 3 would be worth a shot. The popular plated shoes are in the main neutral and I know have injured many slower runners. But as I suggested finding a lightweight shoe with medial support is not easy. Fastwich? Endorphin Shift? DS Trainer.?
I roll inwards a bit too but have been able to use a few of the super shoes (Adios Pro 2 and Endorphin Pro). One that has worked well for me thats not plated but I enjoy is the Skechers GoRun Razor Excess. Did 17 miles yesterday with 10 miles at 10 mile to HM pace in them and they felt great throughout. Love how light they are. Might give the DS 26 a look, I had a pair of DS 24 and din't hate them but didn't love them. Might just stick with the fastwitch though.
Thoughts on Endorphin Pro 3, Asics Edge+ and Hoka Rocket X as stable racers? Thanks.
Would you recommend the Mach 4 as Marathon racer? I suppose the tick all the boxes for a non-plated racer (and it was one of your favorite daily trainers for 2021!)
The Mach 4 can definitely handle a marathon. It’s not as stable as the shoes mentioned here though if you want a super stable shoe on foot.
Matt - great suggestions, but can I seek your view for Brooks Glycerine GTS 20 and Asics Gel Kayano 29?
I was hoping you’d talk about the 361 flame. I work in a uk speciality retail store and it’s the first one I point people towards if they’re after something more stable
Great Videos, any Nike Options?
What is your opinion of ASICS Kayano for a race shoe. I have used them for a marathon shoe in the past but I’m considering a lighter “race shoe” that still provides some stability.
Thoughts on the Skechers Speed Freek as a stable super shoe?
The speed freek is fairly stable upfront, but not in the heel. It compresses very easily in the rear. Most super shoes are relatively stable in that way though, so we don’t entirely recommend it.
Hey Matt, Do you have flat feet yourself? If that's the case, how did that affect your running performance?
what jacket are you wearing?
Do like the sound of the Mizuno Rebellion but it's like £180 uk 🇬🇧 that's a bit expensive I find. Less than £150 then happy days
I need mild stability and found the Alphaflys very stable compared to the Vaporfly which I could probably pull off a 10k in max.
Have you raced the Marathon in the AF? any arch issues?
@@ptlewis2000 No I haven’t I just got them at Christmas. Longest run was a 25k on a treadmill. No issues with the arch but I know exactly where you’re coming from, my first few runs in them that was my main concern but after a k or 2 I don’t notice it at all now. Overall a forgiving shoe for us older runners
@@chrismackenzie28 I bought them anyway... and that arch was too much for my flat feet, despite good form. And it made me bounce up more than forward. So it's back to VF2, Endo Pro, or Zoom Fly 4 for the Marathon. FYI- took my VF2 out and it's still the fastest shoe for shorter long races, but scared to do another Marathon in them for the last 6-8 miles.
@@ptlewis2000 Hi Paul, I didn't see any Nike options on the video and you seem to be experienced with Nike. My daily runners are the Nike Zoom Invincible ,which I love and don't hurt my feet, ankles or knees. My racing shoes (8 months of experience) are the Nike Zoom Tempo Next% and my arches, knees, and ankles take severe damage to the point I can't walk for a few days after a half marathon. Could you recommend a Nike shoe that has a wider midfoot but is still fast enough to race in?
Is it just me, or does Matt seem a bit defensive starting off this video? “Like alright you assholes messaging me and commenting that stability gets no love! Listen up and then shut up!!” Haha! I feel attacked.
I decided to try my own experiments and I’m all in with Zoom Fly 4 (not 1-3) for Marathon (Endorphin Pro on deck and being used for SOS workouts currently). VaporFly for half. And going back to my Fastwitch and DS Trainers for summer 5k 10k training. I don’t do Brooks or Hoka because they are never on sale. No need to fall in love with a shoe I can’t get last years model on discount.
Speaking of DS Trainer, I had to learn how to run again when I dusted it off. All this cushion makes us afraid to touch the ground these days. Once I relaxed and got reacquainted with feeling the road, the DS became fun and fast again. Now that I’m back to team ASICS will also try the Evoride…. On sale of course.
Paul!! I hope that isn’t the impression I gave!! It might be due to this being the 3-4th take it took for me not to mess up significantly enough to stop! This was a video inspired by my own search and wanting to put this information out there!
Glad you’re enjoying the DS trainer. I had the EXACT same experience as you and have been slowly pulling out older racing/training shoes I used to use. Give your body time and it adapts!
Thanks for the feedback!
-Matt
@@DoctorsofRunning hey Matt. Sorry I was totally kidding. I really appreciate you doing this content!
One thing I also noticed is I do a lot better no matter what almost stable shoe I race in to be diligent and disciplined to train in the right daily trainers. In my case we determined it’s the Kayano/2000 family and DS Trainers. For some reason the Zoom Fly family really works for me as well. Didn’t get injured until I experimented with other shoes, including stability.
STABILITY shoes still have a bad rep....i think nost see them as "orthapedic" shoes. "What's wrong with that guy?? He or she isn't running in Vaporfly's".....
"High stack height"--cmopany marketing.
the igher you are off the ground the LeSS handling you have...just as it is the case for carstrucks/SUV's...."lower/wider--better handling.
Focusing on "max cushion/stack height" has IMHO made most runners lazy. NOT working on what's "behind" the shoe....our joints/muscle strength/stamina/Proper Form11 Making the high stack height "race shoe" a crutch for their lack of conditioning/proper form..
I see so many runners o the street with bad form and were likely never "analyzed" by a running coach/team....have bad knees...etc....