At the end of the day, the biggest issue with Warframe's approach to allowing players to pay for power and progression is how it potentially misleads players into purchases: ua-cam.com/video/IG4-ht3VjUs/v-deo.html (among other things)
maybe i should have watched this vid before the other one mate xD. gave a better background on the matter and where you are coming from hehe. well. the more we learn, the algorithm is weird like that innit.
Can't tell if joking or actually dumb. It's a balanced video, exploring the pros and the cons to having platinum being used for nearly everything in the game... so yeah I guess if you just wanna hear what makes you feel better or correct, you're in the wrong place
Where's the clickbait? I think I laid out pretty effectively how the P2W stuff ruins my personal fun and I didn't actually backtrack anything? There's nuance and you can like a game for certain things and dislike it for others
@@whyitsfun "How Warframe’s P2W Mechanics Ruin the Fun (for you)". Personally the trading system is my means of "Winning" in the game. I'm not a very big fan of multi day grinding, so this seems to be a person to person thing. You are very correct on that point. But Yeah the title is pretty clickbaity. Everyone knows the worst implementation of P2W is in a PVP setting. Warframe's PVP scene is as stuff legend with how mythical it is. almost hard to believe it exists, so the win in P2W has to have a different point of reference. But you say it yourself (hence another side of backtracking). "Winning" in Warframe can look very different to many people. For me "winning" has evolved multiple times over my experience with the game simply because of its multifaceted nature. As for a player who simply doesnt share your sentiment in the idea that its ok if a grind to start building something takes more than a day, I find your video lacks any point other than that Warframe is a free to play game with probably the best monetization system known to the industry and you don't like the current place you stand with what you define as "Winning" because you want your grinds to be longer. That should be the video title. "How Warframe's Monetization Ruined the fun for Me" or "I Wish Items Were More Expensive in The Warframe Market". Or maybe "I Wish My Warframe Grinds Were Longer" Nothin's wrong with that though. Hek I have a solution. There's an extension called "Block Site - Stay Focused". It automatically closes your chosen domains immediately. Almost like a pop-up ad blocker but only the sites you tell it. Get the extension and add the Market place to it. Then never use platinum again. That should prove a fair obstacle when you find yourself about to circumvent a lengthy grind with a different and easier grind.(unless you open your wallet)
Ok post watching i still disagree bc here is the thing. I think most wf players would agree that the way to play warframe is never buy plat what you do is either actually grind it or grind the plat. I think there are many glaring issues but its always YOUR choice to spend aswell as not having a true pvp so its not really pay to win. In the end its your choice.
@theleoshowm3010 hear me out. If you even make $20 an hour it's more time/cost effective to work at your job and buy items on the game than earning them in game
@@JCurry1123If you want to spend money on the game, ofc it'll speed things up, otherwise what's the point in spending anything besides donation. You can earn plat in game by trading with others, so much so that it is not uncommon to accrue several thousand (some cases hundreds of thousands) plat from trading alone.
yeah pretty sure some of us pay just to skip some grinding... after grinding for the voidrig i wished i just have bought it from someone else, fucking shit took a long time... and seems that I did it after devs make it easier to get, I can't imagine those who originally grinded for it
Some people are delusional when it comes to monetization. You're probably one of them because you don't care about the nuance in systems like these and that's ok mate. Hope you have a good one :)
Your arguments about being able to do anything with plat EASIER are not wrong but that doesn't make it p2w (since plat IS farmable), just maybe annoying for some people
Quick question, no shade, just trying to better understand where some of you are coming from as I'm wrapping up the follow-up video. Do you think of platinum as real money or not and why/why not? And when it comes to P2W, do you look at that term as limited to situations where paying is the only option? What about situations where alternative methods of acquisition are made more difficult or hidden from the player to encourage spending?
@@whyitsfun I personally don't think of platinum as real money since we are able to get it ingame and I as a very casual player with barely 500 hours have made most of my plat without paying. I haven't earned or spent that much plat because not much is needed even to make your life easier, just by selling some stuff I have casually farmed I can make enough to be able not to worry. I believe situations where you can pay to make your life easier but it isn't the only option are not p2w and they are necessary for the game's financing. About alternate methods being deliberately more difficult to encourage spending I wouldn't like that but it still wouldn't make it p2w in my eyes, but maybe leaning towards that direction and a bit toxic. Still, I don't believe Warframe eployes this kind of tactics so last sentence is purely theoretical.
@@filipposgkanatsios1619 I really appreciate the response. Thank you that absolutely makes sense. Please know you're not one of the people I'm laughing at in the follow-up.
yes. i have almost 400h and just yesterday i bought plat for the first time because it was 75% discount and happened to have 5 bucks sitting on steam, and it felt illegal
135 is nothing i did 300+ hours to get my excal where i needed to and the game added umbra.... that's DE for you when you earn somtihng you oaky ith they either nerf it or a new better noe come out and the new stuff lcoked behind 100s of hours of grind.
slots being the only thing that you can't grind for would be a good point, except for nightwave giving you free slots and the ability to but potatos for both weapons and frames. besidees, you can literally spend like 1 hour a day to get 100 plat which in most cases is enough to cover your bases for any build( slot + potato + weapon potato) so no, paying with plat isn't a problem in the game, it only becomes a problem when there is no alternative which isn't true in warframe
Appreciate you Tenno. Somewhat considering a title change because even though it's honest about how I feel and how the mechanics have affected my experience that doesn't really matter if that's not coming across in some way.
The video has click bait title that calls the game P2W which is something that absolute majority of people that have played the game or did even a bit of research on the game would call lie. Why do you think people would waste time watching video that they consider fundamentally wrong from the ground up? It is obvious that people will simply point out that the entire premise of the video is just bullsh*t and be done with it.
Well you can get literally everything in game by spending real money on it which makes it p2w. Just because you don't want to pay to win doesn't mean that others won't do it. Not to forget where do you think that "free" in game currency that you're winning with comes from? Somebody paid for it so that you both could win. All in all i think it's a fairly good monetization system to make the premium currency tradeable since it enables two people to win from one purchase and f2p games need to be monetized one way or another.
Well, I don't have much time to play Warframe because I'm usually working, so I buy platinum (which is ridiculously cheap with the discount) to skip the grind and I've been enjoying the game for 1000h so far.
I disagree entirely. I think you actually lose fun by paying. Grinding for the item itself or just for the platinum to buy it is enjoyable and I think low droprates are needed to sustain decent prices for trading. This is what allows the entire system to work. Your arguments are all based on the idea that having to spend platinum at all is a bad thing when that is a resource available to all players. It's just pay to skip content.
You absolutely lose fun by paying and that's kinda my point. The fact that payment is involved at all and that past a certain point it makes way more sense to spend platinum than farm for items. Even if spending platinum entails you farming that platinum instead of spending real money.
@whyitsfun I think maybe you just don't find grinding fun ? It's the same concept either way you are gonna do the same thing either way one just circumvents SPECIFIC grinds
@@greynook9852 Nah I love grinding. it's much more about how to me grinds are so much more meaningful if you can't pay your way around them. If they aren't designed in a way where that's a factor. And Warframe is the kinda game where a decent amount of the grinds, the timegating, and the gameplay feels focused around the fact that you can pay your way around things.
@@whyitsfundoesn't it depend on the grind in question though? Like there are grinds in this game that I absolutely cannot tolerate, but the trading system allows me to do the grinds I actually enjoy instead(the riven grind for me rn), and use my profits to skip the grinds that give me brainrot(tome mods rn, kahl missions previously). To me, this division of labor in the playerbase is the game's saving grace.
I'm a 2k hours veteran that enjoys the game mostly for collecting weapons and warframes and I agree with you. What you mentioned in 3:15 happens a lot to me, inventory space is my most purchased item and I usually traded for plat just when I had 1 missing prime part that couldn't farm. I hate Baro's store because the times that I have been most bored in warframe has been when I farm prime parts to trade for him for those weapons/mods that he only sells. Is just now, after several years, that I have all the weapons and mods from Baro. Because Volt Prime was in Baro's store, I never use it for years because its relics never were available when I was playing. Me not actively participating on the trade with platinum make my experience worse, I think you mentioned that later on the video. Right now, I returned to warframe because the Jade shadows event allowed me to purchase all the arcanes that I never had the time or platinum to get them. I just decided to acquire my potatoes, rivens and more prime parts with plat to avoid burn out, but I still don't enjoy paying for forma or arcane adapters and for that I need to farm forma blueprints, steel essence, vitus essence. There are literally dozens of warframes, companions and weapons that I can't use because I don't have enough resources to make them viable even if I put a potato on them, and I still need to farm to complete a lot of "island" content like Railjack intrinsics, or max rank in one of my mechs.
Prime access and platinum packs are criminally expensive for what they offer, even in terms of the platinum you get from either, costing the same price as one or three full priced games. I seen someone once say that they feel its so expensive to almost discourage people from even paying for it in the first place, but still have the option there for people with deep pockets so the game keeps getting funded. But the prices for actual items in the game has always been pretty shitty as its always 3x as expensive as it should be and is arbitrarily priced. Why is one frame 325 platinum but another is 375 platinum? No reason at all. Most of the time the frame that is more expensive can be easier to farm too lol. It's one of the best monetization systems in the gaming industry imo but you REALLY have to take a class in trading 101 to learn the loopholes, missions, and trading etituque to make crumbs of plat in order to buy the slots and catalysts that are mandatory to play most of the content and like you said these are rarely given out to players. Ive been playing the game since open beta hit and ive always struggled with trading. I have 4k platinum now only because i started doing more fissures and getting sets of entire warframes then selling them for discounted prices as that is the only reasonable way imo to make sales, lowball. Now platinum isn't a concern for me but unlike some people in the community i remember what its like to have 12 platinum and not enough to buy a warframe slot.
Ayyy love to see another beta vet and that's a very fair point. The prices for stuff like Prime Access are so nonsense that as a vet I kinda ignore them to the point of almost forgetting they exist and platinum prices aren't great either. But because they exist in a game where if they were any cheaper Platinum farms would just be all anyone did I kinda don't mind tbh (even though I don't like it). Absolutely agree you have to kinda get good at trading as part of the gameplay loop which is a factor I wish wasn't there (also why I wish they would improve the chat system). That early stage where you have practically no platinum and you have no idea where to get more aside from spending really sucks and I wish DE could do more to alleviate that. I always keep my platinum around 100ish because I know that will take care of basically everything I need and I hate riven trading to the point where I just gave someone a Felarx riven for 50p. (which is another thing I didn't mention my PC unironically can't handle an hour-long video like this haha).
Slots were rough in the beginning, for sure. Thankfully, we now have Nightwave which pracitcaly throws them at us for doing things we were already going to be doing. "Bullet Jump a few times for 1k/10k points toward another warframe slot" We complete those without even knowing it. We just walk to our radio in the Orbiter and, suddenly, we've got two new weapon slots (AND credit toward free reactors/catalysts!) outta nowhere. Imagine if ten years ago somebody told you slots and potatoes were gonna be free and not even difficult to get. (Just don't freak out when they tell you about fusion cores) Suffice it to say, if you're paying for anything in Warframe in 2024, it has nothing to do with needing it to progress and everything to do with either supporting its development or not actually wanting to play it.
the only thing you really HAVE to buy with platinum are inventory slots. technically, you could master every weapon and frame with the slots you start with, but that doesnt sound like an enjoyable experience to me. that first purchase gets you familiar with spending platinum, they even give you 50 to start with, plenty if you know what to buy (weapon/frame slots) and none at all if you blow it on something dumb (like a profile glyph).
I know this kinda clickbait video is designed to circle back to argue Warframe’s merits, but I feel like this kinda thing is just completely useless. 90% of people who click already know about Warframe’s systems and are here to defend it (without watching it because honestly, is someone who makes stupid clickbait titles like this worth talking to?), while the other 10% are people who are unfamiliar. They see the title, go “I knew it!” and with their assumptions sated, they don’t click on the video. Gonna be real with you, who is this video for?
This video is for the people who will watch it. The ones who are interested inr a nuanced conversation about the topic. Warframe is a good game, but it's not for everyone and I'd say the systems I talked about are part of the reason why. I know a lot people who won't touch the game because of them. There isn't a lot of discussion around a lot of these things so my entire goal was to be one voice giving a balanced take on how these things affect my experience with the game. Totally fine if you disagree. Like I said in this video, Warframe is the kind of game designed to appeal to people who find the fun in a lot of different ways.
@@whyitsfun I agree that this kind of discussion is good and important to have, but the way you’ve presented it in such clickbaity way just means it won’t reach the people it should. People who won’t give Warframe a try because they assume it’s P2W will see the thumbnail and feel like all their assumptions are confirmed, and then just move on without watching because why bother when “Warframe is clearly a P2W game?” People who know the systems will be too busy feeling the need to defend Warframe because of your shitty clickbait title and not actually participate in the discussion. And thus there’s no discussion to be had. Kinda shot yourself in the foot here. All the while you’re here patting yourself on the back because “haha look at all these people who didn’t even watch the video commenting here” when really it’s because you’ve presented your video as something ignorant and not worth watching. What is the point?
@@Theguyoverthere603 My guy you sound wildly insecure over a video game that I assume doesn't pay your bills what are you on about lol. Warframe has one of the best reputations in the gaming industry no one who hadn't already made up their mind is going to look at my video of all things, let alone just the title and thumbnail and 180 into thinking the game is trash. There are a million videos talking about how good the game is. I saw at least 3 more go live this week. I think it's important, and it sounds like you agree, to have discussions like this alongside praise for the game. Do you think the video is clickbaity because the title and thumbnail are incendiary despite the fact that they're also both entirely accurate to what the video is about and the specifics of what I discuss? Clickbait implies I'm baiting viewers into a video with falsehoods so where's the lie? Sorry for not being that guy who's gonna just gas up games he loves. There's nuance here and every now and again I'm going to talk about aspects of games I love that do ruin the fun for me. And it sounds like you want me to dress up what I have to say. Put guard rails around my honest opinion for the sake of some weirdo out there who will form an opinion on a game based on the title/thumbnail alone. I hope you're not a Star Rail fan you're really not going to like that video lmao.
@@whyitsfunoh yeah there’s nuance and I can tell by the comments section of this video that you’ve done a great job attracting a crowd that really heard that nuance and are having a nuanced discussion about it. I don’t see why you’re hurling insults and calling me insecure. I enjoyed the video, I just think it’s a complete waste because nobody who’d be interested in the topic will ever see it because of how you’ve presented it. Anyway, I can see you’re not interested in the nuances of the conversation so I’m outta here. Best of luck to you, hopefully our little chat boosted you in the algorithm a bit but I have my doubts.
@@Theguyoverthere603ur just petty and childish bro was nice to you 😂 effectively handled you like a special Ed kid with anger issues and you think you somehow "won", "look good" or dare i say come across as "smart" 😂 he's not being combative with you and if he did decide to stop effectively allowing you to abuse him with ur chosen stupidity that's ur own fault and listening to him might help you no one's perfect running away from shit hurts everything in this case you the game and the yter as ur being a narcissist
As a completely free to play player. I agree partially. But, i also have collected and grinded everything and i recently did some math with my brother. We both individually have collected and spent over 20k plat. We got all the cosmetics we want all the frames we want, all the weapons we want and can reach level cap with a few of our builds. It takes time but its not too difficult to do it without spending. It is pay2win. But you can grind for the premium currency pretty easily if you need to.
Yea, I'd say that Warframe has Pay to Win(skip, if you wanna be technically about it). Though Warframe's microtransactions are the only ones I support and that is for a simple reason. Platinum is probably the best "time equals money" currency, because of player trading. The way I see platinum, is that it is a pity currency you can earn with time/trading at a reasonable rate. This rate is completely determined by the value of items traded and the players. Some have time to grind for items, while others have to work a lot, so the time they converted at their job into money can how be converted back into time(platinum) for Warframe. That's just how premium currency works, but money feels fairly equal to time, where in most F2P games, money is far more valuable. Platinum also allows people to skip playing/gringing game modes they don't like and focus on the gameplay aspects they enjoy, which is pretty important for Warframe because it has SO much content that varies so much in gameplay. Opening relics, Railjack, Open world bounties, Spy missions, etc. They all have different gameplay feelings and someone is not gonna like them, and thats ok! You can CHOOSE to use platinum to opt out and continue playing what you want. I chose to do Mars Mirror Defense until I had Citrine and all it's Arcanes maxed out. There are many F2P games that allow you get their premium currency over tine, but usually it is at such a trickle that it may take weeks or months to actually use that premium currency which feels like a blatant disrespect to the time you put into them, usually because your time isn't valuable to them, your money is. Also, I just love being a F2P trader/merchant to my fellow Tenno. -random F2P LR3 w/ 2k hours.
I 100% agree. It's why of all the F2P games I've played over the years Warframe is the one I've really stuck with. The P2W systems are there but Digital Extremes has really threaded the needle when it comes to balancing player friendliness and motivating spending. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more games attempt similar approaches in the future seeing how successful it's been for them. Definitely agree that I love how platinum does enable some degree of flexibility allowing players to opt out of the content they don't enjoy and focus on what they do. It's part of the reason you'll never catch me calling for it to be removed from the game. I don't love how premium currencies like platinum affect game design but more than most devs DE goes out of their way to respect our time and our experience with the game.
A lot of what you said has been brought up by the community many a times. I don't see how you exactly win in Warframe when really end game is either fashion frame or doing a survival for 16 hours and getting permanently banned.
That ban was such nonsense. I haven't been keeping track of how it's developed but I hope DE helped that tenno out. And that's absolutely a fair stance. Like I said in the video, a lot of people have different views on what "winning" means. For me winning is being able to play without arbitrary roadblocks.
18:03 "don't buy this" the amount of platinum I spent on forma bundles is probably near five digits. It is ridiculous that you can craft only a single forma per day with a blueprint that even gets used when you need at least 3 forma to have a decent build, 5 forma for all the progenitor stuff and for a optimal build on some weapons literally 8 forma. Yes you can rush a forma for 10 platinum but that's still just 5 platinum cheaper than buying the built ones while using up the blueprints you have.
You can get potatoes from nightwave and invasions, and I think people really overlook invasion rewards. Sadly, you can't buy lau lens or kuva, but i think its only pay to win if your trying to go through a lot in a day. Warfrane would probably feel better for some people if you play here or there gradually.
@@whyitsfun you approached it as level headed as one could despite having their reservations. It takes discipline to maintain a balanced mind with heavy hand. Don’t beat yourself up about it!
Personal thoughts and tips: One can often bet on hoping to get either 50% or 75% off platinum if playing on PC every so often when logging in. Higher chance seemingly if you haven't played in a hot minute. then just drop half to an hours worth of your day job's work on like $28 in a couple thousand plat (1k for a similar price at 50%) and be set for a very SOLID amount of time if you only spend on necessities like forma, catalysts, slots etc (no splurge purchases on skins or raw weapon/frame purchases) then farm what you can for the most part at a moderate pace. I consider this a courtesy payment, for the fun you'll hopefully had. Once you get to a nice middle point in your WF career then you can sell stuff off the market and make a couple hundred here and there to finance yourself from places that don't even require particularly strong gear at all to collect. if you know what items to jump on. This way, you make stonks. but you still get to play the video game. But now you've got some plat on the cheap in your back pocket to collect frames and weapons cause of slot requirements _(which you SHOULD collect many different things because you need to level up MR and have variety in your game to have FUN)_ , otherwise you'll get bored of the same frames and weapons day in and day out. of course, some things are RIGHT the frick out there _(like sitting around in mirror def in the labs like that one kengineer vid)_ and require some luck. But to most I recommend you don't do the "no life grind" on them, or you'll hate yourself and the game and instead make a list of all the things you specifically desire, and just rotate a few games between them whenever you can and just hope for luck. But if it's giving you grief and it's tradeable, do so to get it out of the way. If you're about to spend more than an hour at any given farm to get any specific thing, re-evaluate what you're doing with your time. :V --Nice clickbait btw--
Pay to win WHAT?! We aren't playing against other people, just alongside them. It's literally not possible for this game to be pay to win. The problem Warframe has is that it doesn't do a good job showing you that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't have to pay anything, and if you are having bad drop rates on certain missions there's always trading. Warframe is NOT pay to win.
What's even video about. Even you yourself don't seem to argue against donation being pointless for most players. Plat is farmable in game and paying to skip farm is like paying to skip game. And even if you pay to win, there's ZERO downsides to it, because game has no competition and no one is offended. It's like several thousand hour player just can't find anything to whine about, and whines for the sake of it, or that he can't Alt+Tab and use the damn WFMarket.
The point is I love Warframe and I really appreciate the various ways in which DE has tried to balance its monetization. However, the ways in which they've chosen to do so ruins the fun at times for me and players like me. It's a tradeoff for the game existing to an extent and I get that, but it's a tradeoff that could also be handled a bit better and one that is not always in favor of the player or the overall gameplay experience.
The crux of whether Warframe is p2w or not is if you consider paying to advance faster p2w or not. Warframe is riddled with pay for convenience content.
if only they didnt ban people from being too good at lasting long periods of time in survival, then Warframe would mostly be just the perfect game (minus the fact that I am in the weird inbetween stage of Rivens and arcane farming and not having enough slots or potatoes and like.. trying to get SP started and feeling a bit lost.
Yeah, that's super fair. Honestly, I had forgotten about Skana and Lato. But I do appreciate how DE errs on the side of making those items weaker than their in-game obtainable counterparts afaik. I could be wrong I don't really use Skana/Lato. I'm never going to love when founders packs include exclusive items like that. But I do somewhat understand and not mind too much as long as that founders pack is the only instance of this considering the context around it. For example, if Tennocon weapons were always exclusive to Tennocon or locked behind the Tennocon relay or something I would absolutely take issue with that.
@JQDeathFromAbove96 how so? Warframe was on its last legs and was about to be ended. Pushing out the founders pack was the ONLY way for it to keep getting support
@@garce4469yeah wasn't that pack like the devs seeing if the community was willing to support it and help it live and the reward really should only be accessible by those supporters
as someone who has drifted on and Off Warframe since joining during Plains of Eidolon, I dont mind the platinum requirements for a bunch of stuff because its both easy to get... and even when I do need to buy some DE usually launches a brick with a 50-75% off coupon taped to it through my window so the prices are never as bad as they seem. Plus its nice that everything in the game can be gotten at some point with enough paitence, investment of time, or luck. though Im going to be honest the time gates on waiting for Incarnon's is half the reason I took a break because 8 weeks is a long ass time...
This is a really good video that's real with the reality of Warframe. It is a very good game, AND possibly the most pay to win game out there (that I know of). Pay to win, which is a bad name for what it is, is any advantage that can be bought. Any subjective interpretation is just a form of that objective umbrella. It took me way to long to come to that simple conclusion. I could tell that you really play Warframe from how you word your explanations, sometimes giving nods to certain topics that's common in the community (like the content islands nod). Also, I'm am one of those few persons that saw the 3 B companies for what they were back in 2014. Currently, Steam is a company that's in a similar situation as those companies, but for various reasons, most people do not see the writing on the wall.
I'm glad the kind of balanced take I was going for connected with you. Really happy to hear you liked the video! "Any subjective interpretation is just a form of that objective umbrella" is a hell of a turn of phrase, wow, I hope you don't mind I may borrow that at some point. It's brilliantly succinct haha. Re Steam: I 1000% hear you but what I do really appreciate about Valve that I think the 3 Bs kinda neglected is Steam as a business realized what its biggest strength in the community was (its marketplace - its features & broad accessibility) and leaned into it. It feels borderline impossible for something like a potential Half-Life 3 to live up to expectations at this point, but in taking time to focus on the business instead of the art while not ignoring the latter, I think Valve/Steam have built themselves a firm enough foundation to take whatever time they need to build whatever games they want. That's invaluable in my eyes. What developer wouldn't want that kind of runway to experiment and truly focus on making a genuinely good game instead of one aimed at improving quarterly profits?
Yeah, one of my favorite activities in Warframe used to be grind new warframes and weapons, but they really ruined this with unbearable grind. I always spent some cash in WF, I really like it, but I used to spend it in aesthethic items, now I accept new frames are just sold to players like me, not grindable - and it wouldn't be so bad if this didn't double as removing my favorite carrot on a stick.
Mod farming is one of, if not one of the most annoying things to do for me ,especially earlier on ,and running out of potatoes or forma and having no garenteed way to farm them,and time gating is the worst,grinding all day for a prime frame or weapon just to finally craft it and now you have to wait 2-3 days ,and now its finished but you dont have any slots or any platinum or any nightwave credits,and for the longest i thought that potatoes ,warframe/weapon slots,and exulis should've cost credits .and i absolutely despise stamding daily cap.despite these problem it one my favorite games,but i feel like these problems will never confronted sadly😢
The grind is the game 100% and a lot of where I'm coming from is couched in the understanding that farming plat is so easy and plat can be used for almost everything
@@CptJistuce Without grind, you would just have access to every frame, weapon, mod, companion, vehicle, helminth ability, starchart node, resource and booster in the game. Your fun in Warframe lasts about an hour if you have everything. Past the grind, this game is hollow and empty, with only the experimentation of builds existing to keep you here. And even then, what are you going to test it on? You already know you can beat everything, cos you HAVE everything.
instead of making that video you could have farmed prime parts and sell them to get plats instead of being a cry baby about false "p2w" accusations bud
Where are the lies in this video lol. What's false? I'll make a follow-up apologizing if I'm incorrect about anything that's not subjective because I don't want to mislead anyone when it comes to a game I love.
I started playing late last year and just hit MR 14 Potatoes are free, I get like 5 of em weekly from Alerts, Duviri, Sortie and Nightwave weekly and I don't even need that many. You can't really whale your way to being good, all frames are good and most weapons are viable, foundry time hasn't been a problem for me since MR 3 so I don't see them as an issue. I'm sitting on 200p worth of unveiled rivens but will only sell if I need plat for warframe slots and weapon slots, I think weapon/frame slots are what most players spend their plat on before they enter the endgame
The only problem i have in warframe is the potatos for all the weapons you need cuz its just painful to get yeah you can do sorties but lets be honest trying to get the catalyst and reactor blueprints and like 6 other things that are added to the loot options is just stupid. in my opinion orokin catalysts and reactors should be more easy to get like how forma is gotten trough relics even if you dont want to not make it that easy at least make it so you can get the blueprints for both of them through a much easier but still challenging way cuz at least it would make it easy on choosing a weapon and experimenting with weapons you want without having to worry if you are gonna use this weapon for a long time or not. yeah besides that i dont really have much issues of warframe besides that cuz it just feels really tiring to be stuck using the same weapon for a long time and having like 8 weapons you wanna try to use but you cant really use them without having like 4 at best
Honestly you made some fair points, this is nowhere near as bad as people ake it out to be in the comments. I disagree with the notion the system is Pay 2 Win, but it certainly is one bad case of Pay 2 Skip (the grind).
Which was my point. Warframe blurs the lines by telling you where you can get SOME items like weapons but not telling you where you can also acquire other items like arcane adapters. Instead it often presents platinum as the main, if not the only, source of acquisition. Info on alternative sources being available on the wiki that DE doesn't own is not a substitute for it being consistently available in game when it comes to player-friendly user interface or user experience design.
@@whyitsfundude the game tells you about arcame adapters as soon as you unlock the vendor like cavalero and teshin is not like players can literally scrool a bit through the menu looking for what they now gained access to
The correct term is P2S/PtS - Play to Skip, not P2W. I do believe that the grind is becoming much more complicated and time-consuming, but it is often for a good price Endgame item.
Quick question, no shade, just trying to better understand where some of you are coming from as I'm wrapping up the follow-up video. Do you think of platinum as real money or not and why/why not? And when it comes to P2W, do you look at that term as limited to situations where paying is the only option? What about situations where alternative methods of acquisition are made more difficult or hidden from the player to encourage spending? Reply
@@whyitsfun Hi, I just saw the answer today. I hope you still see it. I don't consider platinum to be ''real money'' because Warframe gives you the freedom to choose whether you want to buy it or simply get it by trading with other players, and everything that involves platinum, I usually trade and get, and I only used it to open slots and some skins that I liked. I do believe that many will be upset with certain farms and want to use it to skip, but you also have several options like trading with other players and making the trades move. Few current games give you this freedom of choice with the premium currency, so I strongly defend this choice and the way it is currently in the game.
So I have a friend who owns everything in the game, and he earned it all by playing. Even the color pallets which I'll admits hurts being plat only, but just playing n A lil reading n anyone can make hundreds of plat a day no problem.
This is what usually happens if a new player doen't get a propper introduction into the game mechanics. That may not be you, but literally every moment of "I need to buy this or I'm stuck" can easily be avoided or even enjoyed if the game would tell you what items are valuable and where to propperly sell them. A friend of me farmed 8k plat and hasn't spend a single $ and got to MR25. Warframe is never p2w. It's "pay2not play the game and skip some of the grind which is usually and actually the fun part" kind of system. The gameplay is just so good. I bought a lot of stuff and ended up farming it anyways, because I like to play the game.
4:10 now this i completely agree If at least there was a consistent way to farm potatoes, sure, i'd do the grind, but not even their blueprint is outright farmable outside of plat trading. Also, slots are so so so frustrating
What P2W mechanics? This isn't CoD. This isn't Season 1 of Pokemon Unite. You can pay to get things faster sure but that doesn't mean it hands anything to you aside from that.
Lmao I never expected to make a video that would trigger Pokemon Unite references but imo the P2W mechanics I described are kinda problematic. Not game ruining, which is why I'm still playing, but not ideal either.
Bro, first of all. What a good editing and video, fr bro, the video is very well done, congratulations Now... I agree with your points and disagree with some, but the point I'm getting at is: Warframe itself has some P2W elements (like buying slots, like you said), but at the end of the day, the game is super system-friendly of plat, of the person only really spending money on platinum if it is for something urgent, in my opinion. The important thing for me is, the game is fun, if Warframe can keep me entertained, I can handle it
Hey so far at 15:35 I agree with everything you said. I am MR34 in warframe. Take care man, the hate are probably from people who saw the title. You got your self a subscriber :)
I absolutely loved your explanation in this video and I really appreciate your editing style. Definitely dropping a sub for more, keep up the good work!
I don't think that the game is pay to win, I think that it is pay to skip means that you could still get them but with platinum you can get it instantly
Bullshit. I just took my time, didn't spend plat on rushing the foundry and learned to trade. The newest prime is always pretty straight forward to farm and usually what ppl want to buy. I have never payed to progress and truly think it's completely missing the point to do so.
I came here to say that the game is not pay to win the paid currency platinum is grindable via prime part, arcanes, and more the only things you have to pay for is tennogen and regal aya but the resurgence Warframes themselves you can grind for via regular aya or just getting the relics wherever else you get relics the only thing that you absolutely have to pay for is certain fashion items
All true but what do you do after you grind those prime parts or arcanes? You trade them right? That platinum doesn't materialize out of thin air someone had to buy it. You can't trade platinum you get for free. Ninjas pay free and that's one of the best parts of Warframe but just because you're paying with someone else's money does not mean you're not still paying and the game is structured in such a way that I don't see how you build out an arsenal without the premium currency getting involved at some point. Even if all you're buying are the basics like slots and potatoes. If platinum was genuinely grindable in-game, like say there was a vendor we went to with our prime junk instead of hitting up trade chat, I think I would potentially change my stance. Warframe is far from the worst example of p2w but if it walks like a duck and I can pay to make myself stronger well. It is what it is.
@@whyitsfun The thing is, though, that the people with plat WANT to buy the plat. They don't have to, but they do, which keeps the market afloat. It's a system where the people who want to help the game can- In theory you have to pay, yes, but so many people just want to help the game out, myself included, so we don't mind spending like 5 bucks every once in a while when we get 75% discounts.
Having played games through the '00 era of ACTUAL pay to win mmo's Im still salty when people call it pay to win because i have a very strict definition on pay to win. I used to play a game that was 90% pve that has armor you could buy at lvl 15 that has the stats of lvl 45 great. (And didn't get me started on the lvl 60 armor from the gacha system that you needed just to do end game without getting 1 shot or taking an hour to clear a room. But ya. If i had to rename your video it isn't "pay 2 win" issue. Should be "Warframe rng and its push toward using the premium/player market
@@MsDreemurr exactly. Nexon and perfect world international were natorious for p2w mmo. Nothing like needing to pay real money just so you could buff your stats in order to even ATTEMPT the end game dungeons.
@@drewrobinson5562 reason I stopped playing maple story when I was in high school shit was awful especially after the MS2 released and they started pushing Micro transactions onto us even more cause of how much money they lost.
3:14 minutes in I understand your view on this but i think its just a matter of point of view You state that you either grind an activity for hours on end to drop what you want, or you spend a neglectable amount of platinum to buy it from the market I see this as a way to diversify your way towards loot you want/need If warframe was "either you play this mission for hours or you spend money to get this", i'd understand But it's more like "oh, you dont want to play the same mission over and over? How about you play this instead? You'll eventually get what you want anyways, might as well not be bored while doing it" Like, back in the day, spamming relic farm would get old pretty quickly, but nowadays we have void cascade, the circuit, railjack, bounties, eidolon hunt, pretty much any form of late game will award you plat, just play whatever mission you feel like it at this point
I think you meant negligible. Which I'd disagree with anyway since games have long since forgotten the micro part of micro transaction and warframe is no exception. Finding anything in the store with a converted cost of under a buck is basically impossible.
By definition, technically you can say that Warframe is Pay to Win. However over my many thousands of hours of playtime I have never felt the need to actually spend money to do anything, which is why I think their system is well designed. If I wanted to I could pay to skip grinding and for convenience, but I never feel like I have to. Sure there are some things that can be improved, and I think that is worthy of discussion, but I think the kodel as a whole feels fair. I think thats why so many people are hesitant to call it pay to win.
I mean, realistically, the title is accurate to my experience. The monetization ruins my fun in a lot of ways but I do understand why it's there and why it functions the way it does and I don't mind it too much at the end of the day.
Not much of a bait and switch imo. The P2W stuff does ruin my fun, I would infinitely prefer a game I could just buy where none of this stuff exists, but I think Warframe as a game balances things well enough that it's not an issue.
Change the title to something less clickbaity, because the game isn't P2W. It has some excessively expensive microtransactions, like the Prime packs for example, but it's not P2W.
How is it not pay to win when I can grind for the resources for an item, wait for it to craft, and then get hit by a pop up asking me to pay platinum to claim that item that I already put in the time working for?
I agree with the video and I believe that grind for certain things should be more fulfilling, so that I would feel that I should just buy it with plat less often. Still warframe handles microtransactions very good compared to other live service f2p games
No offense but the game is fully f2p, there are multiple methods to make 100s of plat an hour but require investment / progress, but if you enjoy the game youll get there fairly easily while having fun. Simply paying skips ingame hours grinding is the big difference.
It was a, partially, switchbait title. Then cycling back to the fact that some farms can take real world day or weeks and in genuinely often makes more sense to buy/trade items.
So which of the issues I brought up do you disagree with? Saying "what pay to win" just sounds like you're the one who needs a brain mate or you just haven't paid attention to the game lol
As a F2P player with over 1000hours, At the end of the day, DE has to pay their bills and employees. its not like they are Activision blizzard with 7 titles out that are all making money, as they continue to release a new $60 slop pile of a "game" what seems like every 2 weeks, Free to play games have to keep themselves a float somehow. And if you dont agree with it dont play the game🤷♂They have a strong community of fans that are willing to support them
As someone who's paid money for the game because I enjoy it, it's not pay to win in the slightest. I didn't need to pay a cent of what I did in order to get where I am- It's so, so easy to get plat in-game just by farming for an hour or so, and the only thing money itself is used for is skins and cosmetics. I've made literally hundreds of plat just from putting a scant few mods up on the market every once in a while, not even dedicating myself to it-
There is no pvp in warframe so what does win even mean? It's only pay to skip some of the tedious farm time and prices are quite low if you use warframe market. Easy. Don't have a problem with that...
What does winning even mean is kinda part of my point. I don't love that Warframe puts up rather arbitrary roadblocks to make me as a player consider spending my way around them.
@@whyitsfun Yeah it's true. Otherwise I consider pricing quite generous, I got a Wisp Prime, Rev Prime, Khora Prime, Hildryn Prime, Fulmin Prime for under 5$ which I consider pretty insane. Got the 75% discount for platin and just bought up the missing prime parts from warframe market. The real problem is the farm for certain warframes. It's so tedious and boring that players might quit before they even found a frame they like. My first frame I really wanted was Garuda and it was hell as an early player. One friend of mine just wants Citrine and it's a nightmare for him too. But on he other hand it feels like a real achievement afterwards... Once you have one frame you like things ease up a lot.
@@whyitsfun Being monetized in a way you don't like, and being p2w is 2 different things. They still need to monetize the game, and this is the most unobtrusive way that they have figured out that still lets them win money.
@@louie365official I absolutely agree and I think DE has found a good balance. As mentioned in the video I fully believe games like this need to motivate spending. If you look at Runeterra for example that game was too player friendly. Everyone was able to get all the cards they wanted for free so practically no one was spending and as a result Riot can no longer afford to support the game to an extent. Warframe is a game where I can directly pay to make myself stronger in various ways. It's also a game where rather crucial elements like potatoes and slots are more or less locked behind spending platinum or waiting for the rare handout from DE. I love the game. I also think it's p2w because it needs to be on some level to motivate people to spend and the parts of it that are p2w are the parts that ruin my fun. It's far from the worst approach, but my favorite games are those like Baldur's Gate 3 and Remnant 2 where you pay and then you can just play the game. There are arbitrary roadblocks in place all over Warframe to motivate spending and I fully understand why they're there, I don't think they make the game bad, and I have a lot of respect for all of the ways DE goes out of their way to mitigate things. But these elements of the game do negatively affect my experience and that is what it is.
@@whyitsfun Yo Remnant 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 are payed games, do you forget Warframe is free to download and play trough 100%? They have to monetize the game in some way if you want content like New War and all the new updates they are pushing. You don't like the roadblocks and I get it, but that is something you should expect in a free game and deal with. If you actually want to win money with a game, you have either paywalls, roadblocks which still alow you to get around in a free way, or lootboxes, I do not know any other system that works for a free game, and warframe has the best by far since most include the 3 of them and in the worst way possible, a lot even being payed like BDO and many MMO's. Anyway, I get your point, you don't like the system, but at the end of the day it is not p2w, and like it looks from the comments most people will agree with me. Tho I don't like that some are being rude with you. We chill, you have your opinion and I think its fine, but don't use click baity titles or you will get angry fanboys deffending the their game XD. Altho bad publicity is also publicity so who knows, maybe this pushes your content to more. Any way, keep it up!
@@smileythecursedog1329 Some of us are busy living life & responding to trolls just isn't a priority lol. It is fun though.Thanks for the entertainment
Not gonna lie, the title and the first few parts of the video make it really easy to jump to conclusions and throw tomatoes at the screen; I'm pretty sure that's a reason for the backlash. That being said, if you stick around long enough you realize where the video is headed. Good stuff, liked the video overall, just a shame that it is so easy to misinterpret.
The removal of comments says everything. I've played for years and spent 10 dollars. That being said a point you even brought up "why would I spend day's farming a mod farm an isolation vault for an item with a 4% drop rate when I can spend 30 minutes farming to make the platinum instead." That's exactly the point you can farm the platinum or grind it out. You can also outright buy it that's your choice. The fact of the matter is there is no advantage spending money that can't be done actually playing the game. It doesn't fit that narrative...play some of these other mmos where literally your gear can't be earned in game and then let's have that p2w conversation.
Lmao what removal of comments? I only have YT's most basic comment filter on (which everyone does I assume) that filters stuff with excessive cursing or worse links that could be used for phishing.
I fully expected people would kneejerk dislike in defense of the game but I never expected it to be like this haha. It's really funny to watch happen in real time though
@whyitsfun dude you clickbaited and your false advertising just pushes the negative stigma that many people still hold for warframe without knowing anything about the game.
@@gabrielbro8083 Where is the clickbait lol? Did I not explain how/why the p2w aspects of Warframe ruin my fun? Did I not also talk about how Warframe doesn't necessarily deserve any negative stigma because of how it balances things?
@whyitsfun its click bait because thumbnail is a generalization without the added context that u mention in the video, on top of this, calling it pay to WIN is an improper representation of the game, as you can earn literally everything for free, which means f2p is not actually held back at all, p2w is when a game allows you to gain an insurmountable advantage by paying money, but anything you can buy, you can aslo earn.
@@gabrielbro8083 How is the thumbnail an improper representation? Does "Ninjas Pay Free" not describe exactly what this game is like? Do we not need platinum for stuff like slots? Tell me where can I go earn more slots in-game without spending platinum outside of the occasional handout? Just because we can earn the premium currency does not mean the game isn't Pay to Win. It just means it's a more player friendly variant than people are used to.
There’s a discussion to be had here but clearly it’s hard to have it in good faith, and it’s because of that title. The way the title of this vid is phrased is deliberate rage bait. If you wanted people to interact with the video intentionally, you should’ve gone for a more neutrally connotative title like “Warframe and it’s monetization”.
Not rage bait just honesty and an assumption that the Warframe community was in a position to have more direct conversations about this kinda thing. Obv, in hindsight, a dumb assumption on my part but I'm a kinda direct guy so it is what it is and I don't mind having filtered a few people.
I dont see warframe as a pay to win, i see it as a pay for convenience. Games like world of tanks, destiny or any game with a loot box system (which is basically just gambling+p2w) are pay to win. You can absolutely play warframe from beginning to "end" without dropping a single dime and still "win"/do a lot of damage but you cant really do the same in destiny 2.
@@whyitsfun paying to gain a substantial advantage over other players and paying so that stuff just craft faster isn't the same. If you truly think that warframe is a pay to win then you just haven't experienced a true pay to win
@@blvkoz3538 I have, (like Lost Ark for example) but I'm not playing any of those games because again like Lost Ark the systems got in the way of the fun. Imo P2W is a gradient. Not every game is the same and Warframe is far for the worst but the systems are still there.
I love this video, o want to review it on my other channel. As a player that has been playing since closed beta, i have some things i agree and disagree with but overall, this is an amazing video. I wanted to be like sus to this video but, holy shit, you hit the nail on the head on a lot of things i have been saying for years. While i dont have as many hours as, i still understand what you say but i will dp that later man. You got a sub from me. Love this man. Ps. Fuck destiny. Lol jk i love that game too. But after final shape, im out.
Solid video, seems like a lot of the comments down here came before watching rather than after. Lot of wild claims that are directly dealt with in the video itself. That being said yeah I do agree with the video, there’s a lot of places where it’s weirdly more efficient to farm the plat than farm the items and it does give you a nagging in your head when you choose to grind the items over the plat to buy them.
Tuned in to hear your side, expecting a very new player perspective. Was kind of surprised that the criticisms came from a fellow veteran. While I will agree to some extent (as a veteran player, my main gripe is, has, and always will be with the time-gating more than anything), I will saying, the title is so exceptionally tonally distinct from the content, that it's really painted a lot of the fair complaints poorly, and has made the worst of your criticism feel even worse - hollow. Also, for one, and this goes out to @Darthmuffin too, I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff is priced highly not to bleed the whales, but to explicitly mitigate people from paying to win. That's what happened to me and the majority of the people I know; when we looked at the costs, we said to ourselves - maybe it's time we pace ourselves, have fun, find other avenues and not treat the game like it has to be "finished" within X hours/for "our content creator jobs" (we aren't). And now, 3K hours in, and almost a decade now, and we have no problems with the economy. Platinum IS easy farm. Sometimes I feel like a lot of people don't realize how much worse the rest of the industry is or could be, or that they've been so use to the abuses of the industry, they bring that "must have eveerything now must be the norm" mindset to WF too. All when WF is such a player-driven game because almost nothing is truly time-gated. But also also, mad props for also not liking Shield Gating and disliking the OHK/DPS Race meta.
Pay for convenience and p2w are the same thing imo if the game is designed around it. It's a gradient, different games handle it in different ways and Warframe is far from the worst offender
No basically pay to progress i came bakc 6 years alter and i wish i woudln't after that mayn years things that were unlocke dfor me back then now locked behing quests which locked behind grind on the free raom maps which i loathe all free roam maps to earn their respects every way to do give salmsot nothing per collcetiv eitem to be the tags/coins of the entrati family/ loyd etc the absoulte shit quests with no clear ponits waht to do on the palins of eidolon. Also eidolons can basically barely scrathec with the same shłt i used back then to put thme down.
Definitely not streaming anytime soon but I may absolutely make a video when Jade drops. Good time to talk about why I love the game instead of why I don't love the monetization haha
Alright. Earned a sub. This video actually reminded me why I fell in love with Warframe and what I did as a baby tenno to get where I am (started during in the middle of the sisters of parvos update and forst ever prime resurgence up). Title being cliclbait sure, but its a nice refresher of a good balance to talk about. Looking foreard to some of your videos. Also hehe, invite me sometime to play on earframe sometime, I like to grind for prime parts
Ayy thank you so much Tenno! Appreciate both the kind words and the sub. A balanced take was exactly what I was aiming for and glad to know that resonated with you. Genuinely didn't think it would cause so much controversy lol. I really just wanted to have the plat convo at least once to get it out of the way so I don't have to derail every Warframe video I make in the future with "yeah this is great and I love it but platinum tho". This way when Jade drops I can just make a fun video about Jade and the new content without feeling like a shill :) Hope to see you there
I don´t think It´s P2W. Imagine a whale paying a million dollars on warframe. He has everything on him. Boosts through the Story and bosses. Then what? Unlock steelpath? what for you don´t need anything from it. You bought the Arkanes. Maybe some kuva, maybe an umbra forma... But you can buy god roll rivens. So yeah, you payed a million dollars to not experience the game. They won´t realize any mechanics along the way, openworlds are irrelevant, they´ll never see Eudico´s face, none. You really trying to tell me that that is a W? Nah it´s pay to loose my guy. My fun in Warframe is grinding stuff with my friends, improving and working up builds, minmaxing. FASHIONFRAME. And i get my Fashion from Trades of off Steelpath arcanes, mods and primes. What you pay for in the game is time. That´s all it is. That is the main hurdle of the game. Working towards something is what gives us purpose, have you heard other Content-creators say "i don´t want new content, we have enough already"? Nah.
I actually watched the whole video... click baity as all heck... The game isnt p2w in any capacity. Its pay to skip the grind; and even then, not the whole grind. Love your energy but this vid is pretty try hard as a click bait vid. Glad to see another Tenno/Guardian tho. Gl on the next
Thanks for the good wishes Tenno. Next video is way less controversial haha I'm really, genuinely asking, this isn't an attempt at a clap back or anything, what about the title is clickbait? More so I can avoid people who watch the entire vid like you walking away with that impression than anything. To me, it's honest to how I feel and the video is as long as it is in an effort to explain why.
@@whyitsfun Pay to win implies a certain level of blockade for free players that does not exist in Warframe. You immediately started to backtrack and say the game wasnt the thing the title implied. For majority of people that play Warframe as free players, pay to win means there is content you either literally can not play without paying money, or content that is incredibly hard without paying money. Incarnons can not be bought with plat until right when someone would unlock them regardless. Weapons can only be bought with plat after you meet their MR requirement, meaning you probably wouldve had access to those weapons by that point regardless. Frames arent really that far apart in power scaling, meaning paying for a new frame doesnt really benefit you until you invest in levelling it. The only really beneficial thing you can buy with plat are mods, credits and endo, which even then, modding tends to be its own mental hurdle for a new player. Where in Warframe does the game become incredibly hard without spending money? Steel Path? You have Nataruk, the Grimoire and the Broken War. All of those ruin Steel Paths difficulty spike. The jump that happens around Jupiter to Saturn for new players? Knowledge of modding jumps that gap, not a credit card. MR grind is a decent point toward the game being pay to win, but even then, MR doesnt matter for long. You hit MR 15 and suddenly every weapon in the game is open. MR 16, every riven. The only reason to go for 30 is the blessings, which would be VERY marginal for someone already whaling on the game as they would already have boosters. You didnt prove the point people clicked on the video to watch you prove. You fought a completely different demon.
@@dogma32 Warframe absolutely has blockades in place for free-to-play players, it's just a bit better about providing ways around them than other games (while also being substantially worse at conveying that information). It's not as bad as many other titles that allow you to pay for power but the systems are still there and on some level Warframe depends on players spending platinum for its success which has influenced the design/direction of the game. You've taken a very narrow stance on the definition of p2w and apparently taken issue with how I see it. Which is fine, like I said in the video, "winning" means something different to a lot of people, but most of what you just said isn't really related to the conversation I was having in the video. And there's a lot more to buy aside from mods, endo, and credits which is actually much more of a serious problem than I discussed lol but that's for the next video. Partially because the game has no "end" state, winning for me entails simply being able to have fun playing the game while continue to unlock new frames and weapons. Winning for me means being able to see something I want, grinding to unlock it, and having fun using it across the game's content. However, if I want to build out any kind of arsenal at any reasonable pace I'll need platinum at some point for slots, no? And because this isn't a game about finding the best loadout so much as it is building out an array of options to use in different pieces of content I'll likely wind up needing platinum for potatoes as well since in order to accommodate any real build you need the extra space. Sources like Nightwave and Alerts give such severely limited amounts at such an inconsistent pace in comparison to the amount of frames/weapons/etc in-game that I just don't think it's realistic for anyone who is playing the game consistently with any degree of efficiency to rely on them entirely and that's absolutely by design. We could get even more granular and discuss how many systems exist in-game explicitly to push players towards trading or using platinum like the way it's functionally impossible for the average player to have access to all the syndicates and their rather important augments for frames at any given time because of the way reputation & negative standing works. In some f2p games, you can largely ignore the premium currency but that just hasn't been my experience with Warframe which is a big part of what ruins the fun for me. The fact that I can earn the currency by trading is great and all but that's just me working, selling goods to someone else to get money, and then using that money (traded plat is always real money cuz you can't trade free plat) to pay to get rid of whatever pop up was telling me I can't claim a weapon that I already put in the work to farm and waited 24 real life hours to craft. That kind of thing is immersion-shattering at best and quite frustrating at worst and the fact that it's such a core part of the gameplay loop hurts the overall experience for players like me. Especially in circumstances where it's genuinely much easier & more effecient to just put in a couple of hours of work to earn the platinum to buy something as opposed to just grinding for the item the traditional way. If people expected me to prove a different point than the one I did, it is what it is, but I talked about how the game allowing, encouraging, and to a certain extent demanding players use platinum to avoid arbitrary problems the devs created ruins the fun for me which is exactly in line with my title/thumb and claiming I back tracked anything is just inaccurate lol. That came across to some people but obv not everyone, so I think the next time I have something similar to discuss I won't try to balance constructive criticism with praise or my personal fun because it seems to confuse the issue to an extent.
this is straight up rage baiting 😂. p2win = the practice of paying to get weapons[✓], abilities[X], etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money[X]. warframe is 99% coop game . i dont wanna say 100% coz people still play conclave for some reason. advantage on coop game ... there's none 😂 . unless being able to be mr30 faster than other people as an advantage but its a debuff. mr30 is when people quit the game. in game auction house i am 50/50 for it.. they decided not to make it in order to produce less headache for de side of things. de not having control of prices of rivens is definitely something unheard of .. even wow is constantly controlling their market. its basically free market for us which is a win for everybody. de monetization is what makes this game work. People buy platinum in de which makes their company survive . people who have less time but lot of money buy mods and every tradeable stuff in the game coz of the lack of playtime makes the sellers have platinum even without spending real money.. sellers who have alot of time for grind and not alot of money is the working force to make rare mods/arcanes/stuff available for the rest of the community and they get paid with plat for it. this is a whole symbiotic environment that everyone wins. i dont see any losers do you?. i dont even understand where you getting at the point of this video as a whole framing platinum is bad monetization. it is not. waiting for stuff to craft is ok coz you dont even have weapon slot/warframe slot to begin with. you need plat for that.. now farm plat nw shouldve been a monthly thing should be your focus and everybody else focus. if we have warframe/weapon slot every month.. would have been really good thing.
Is it clickbaity because it got you to click even though it isn't really bait? The p2w systems I discuss are the part of the game actively ruining my fun more often than not. They're a big part of the reason I don't play Warframe more.
@@whyitsfun Sorry but it is bait, 5 minutes in you retract and say it isn´t pay to win, then start talking about other games for 5 more minutes. I clicked cause I was curious how were you going to explain that a game that can't be p2w is p2w. There is nothing to win in warframe, at most there is in PVP but nobody plays conclave anyway so it doesn't count. And as you explained only cosmetics are actually payed, everything else is just grind. Which sure isn't perfect, but some people like it, and they have to monetize the platform in some way so I would say its fair. Monetization in waframe is fairly unobtrusive, You can pay if you don't want to wait or grind, but you don't have to, and the game even tells you that you don't have to. Example: When you go to buy a warframe from the market, you have both the option to buy with platinum and with credits in the same place and clearly visible, if you hover over the credit version it tells you what you need and how to get it. So yeah, it is click bait, it is not p2w cause there is nothing to win, and monetization is really unobtrusive in comparison to other free games, example being Destiny which is not only intrusive but actually has paywalled content. Even if you just mean that players can get a severe advantage by paying, I would argue this is not true for the most part, you can get to endgame content in about 100 hours without spending a buck in the game, have done this with a couple of friends, I think that is really reasonable. So calling it severe advantage would be an overstatement. Anyway, great editing and interesting video, but should have another title, at least in my opinion. PD: I did not watch the full video, you speaking about other games for 5 minutes straight seemed like getting too out of context and I got tired, maybe it's just me idk.
@@whyitsfun Also man, you have a dozen comments already saying the same that I did, does it not enter your mind that maybe you are in the wrong here? Think for a bit, not trying to be rude here, just a reality check ya know.
@@louie365official Believe me I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I'm right and everyone is wrong. This is much more me genuinely trying to understand where the disconnect comes from so I can avoid that in the future. So far it's sounding like for a lot of people the problem might be that I tried to approach this conversation like a conversation I would have with a friend where I take my time providing context for exactly why I feel the way I do and make it clear that none of this is black and white for me. It does sound like you didn't make it to the part of the video where I layout more concisely that despite being able to earn the premium currency, despite all of the various elements of the game that mitigate things and make the Warframe worth playing, I still firmly believe the game is p2w. It's just a form of pay 2 win that's much more player-friendly than you'll see in a lot of other circumstances. And the p2w elements that exist in the game are precisely what get in the way of my fun. Right now my big takeaway from all of this is if I make a similar video like this in the future it needs to be less focused on being a piece of entertainment and more on immediately conveying information for viewers like you who may not make it to the part of the video where they have the full context to understand where I'm coming from. The video is intended for the kind of viewer who is down for a longer ride. Who wants to see how things crystalize towards the end but I understand how sitting through a 30min video to get there isn't for everyone and there's no reason I can't do a better job of making sure viewers like you don't leave the video with the wrong impression because I didn't hook you in effectively enough to provide the right one.
@@whyitsfun Sure and that is fine, look you will have my sub as you seem a grounded person and know how to edit. I said myself that I did not watch the full video and it is maybe just me that didn't like the contrast at the start. Still title is clickbaity, and I think a lot of people will agree that you can't speak of warframe as pay to win. Also, there HAS to be a monetization system. I understand that warframe's is maybe not to your liking, maybe even other people, but it is the best monetization system I have found so far in a free game. As long as there is no literal paywalls or a lock from endgame(like destiny) for free players then I will not consider it p2w(by your description for non pvp games). You can still reach endgame in about 100-150 hours of playtime with all main quests done for free, I have made this experiment myself with friends that didn't know the game beforehand. Ofc with some help from my side as some of warframe's systems can be confusing, but that is another topic
At the end of the day, the biggest issue with Warframe's approach to allowing players to pay for power and progression is how it potentially misleads players into purchases: ua-cam.com/video/IG4-ht3VjUs/v-deo.html
(among other things)
maybe i should have watched this vid before the other one mate xD. gave a better background on the matter and where you are coming from hehe. well. the more we learn, the algorithm is weird like that innit.
TOTAL CLICK BAIT GASLIGHTING not worth 5 minutes of viewing before he backtracks.
Bru. He backtracks? Lmao lemmi get outta here.
Can't tell if joking or actually dumb. It's a balanced video, exploring the pros and the cons to having platinum being used for nearly everything in the game... so yeah I guess if you just wanna hear what makes you feel better or correct, you're in the wrong place
Where's the clickbait? I think I laid out pretty effectively how the P2W stuff ruins my personal fun and I didn't actually backtrack anything? There's nuance and you can like a game for certain things and dislike it for others
@@whyitsfun ok ill watch and let u know what i think.
@@whyitsfun "How Warframe’s P2W Mechanics Ruin the Fun (for you)".
Personally the trading system is my means of "Winning" in the game. I'm not a very big fan of multi day grinding, so this seems to be a person to person thing. You are very correct on that point.
But Yeah the title is pretty clickbaity. Everyone knows the worst implementation of P2W is in a PVP setting. Warframe's PVP scene is as stuff legend with how mythical it is. almost hard to believe it exists, so the win in P2W has to have a different point of reference. But you say it yourself (hence another side of backtracking). "Winning" in Warframe can look very different to many people. For me "winning" has evolved multiple times over my experience with the game simply because of its multifaceted nature. As for a player who simply doesnt share your sentiment in the idea that its ok if a grind to start building something takes more than a day, I find your video lacks any point other than that Warframe is a free to play game with probably the best monetization system known to the industry and you don't like the current place you stand with what you define as "Winning" because you want your grinds to be longer.
That should be the video title. "How Warframe's Monetization Ruined the fun for Me" or "I Wish Items Were More Expensive in The Warframe Market". Or maybe "I Wish My Warframe Grinds Were Longer"
Nothin's wrong with that though. Hek I have a solution. There's an extension called "Block Site - Stay Focused". It automatically closes your chosen domains immediately. Almost like a pop-up ad blocker but only the sites you tell it. Get the extension and add the Market place to it. Then never use platinum again. That should prove a fair obstacle when you find yourself about to circumvent a lengthy grind with a different and easier grind.(unless you open your wallet)
Pre watching this video i strongly disagree lets see what happens.
I hope to change your mind haha if not that's ok too
Ok post watching i still disagree bc here is the thing. I think most wf players would agree that the way to play warframe is never buy plat what you do is either actually grind it or grind the plat. I think there are many glaring issues but its always YOUR choice to spend aswell as not having a true pvp so its not really pay to win. In the end its your choice.
Although i now agree more than i did before
@theleoshowm3010 hear me out. If you even make $20 an hour it's more time/cost effective to work at your job and buy items on the game than earning them in game
@@JCurry1123If you want to spend money on the game, ofc it'll speed things up, otherwise what's the point in spending anything besides donation. You can earn plat in game by trading with others, so much so that it is not uncommon to accrue several thousand (some cases hundreds of thousands) plat from trading alone.
It pay to skip the grind (sometimes u don't spend any of your money for said frame)
Yo thank you I was waiting for someone to say the line lmao
I played this game for far to long i typical just traded for the premium currency because I could
@@thejuggernaut1793 same here and I don't love the aspect of the game nearly as much as just grinding for stuff
yeah pretty sure some of us pay just to skip some grinding... after grinding for the voidrig i wished i just have bought it from someone else, fucking shit took a long time... and seems that I did it after devs make it easier to get, I can't imagine those who originally grinded for it
Some people are severely delusional when it comes to monetization. This guy is one of them. Farming the negative press.
Some people are delusional when it comes to monetization. You're probably one of them because you don't care about the nuance in systems like these and that's ok mate. Hope you have a good one :)
@@whyitsfun Yup thats why you have close to 4x as many dislikes as likes... because you're so right.
@@2BsWraith I know it's unironically kinda hilarious
Your arguments about being able to do anything with plat EASIER are not wrong but that doesn't make it p2w (since plat IS farmable), just maybe annoying for some people
Quick question, no shade, just trying to better understand where some of you are coming from as I'm wrapping up the follow-up video. Do you think of platinum as real money or not and why/why not?
And when it comes to P2W, do you look at that term as limited to situations where paying is the only option? What about situations where alternative methods of acquisition are made more difficult or hidden from the player to encourage spending?
@@whyitsfun I personally don't think of platinum as real money since we are able to get it ingame and I as a very casual player with barely 500 hours have made most of my plat without paying. I haven't earned or spent that much plat because not much is needed even to make your life easier, just by selling some stuff I have casually farmed I can make enough to be able not to worry.
I believe situations where you can pay to make your life easier but it isn't the only option are not p2w and they are necessary for the game's financing. About alternate methods being deliberately more difficult to encourage spending I wouldn't like that but it still wouldn't make it p2w in my eyes, but maybe leaning towards that direction and a bit toxic. Still, I don't believe Warframe eployes this kind of tactics so last sentence is purely theoretical.
@@filipposgkanatsios1619 I really appreciate the response. Thank you that absolutely makes sense. Please know you're not one of the people I'm laughing at in the follow-up.
Bro I played 135h in past two weeks without paying shit and had a blast. I am really not allowed to talk shit about this game
yes. i have almost 400h and just yesterday i bought plat for the first time because it was 75% discount and happened to have 5 bucks sitting on steam, and it felt illegal
135 is nothing i did 300+ hours to get my excal where i needed to and the game added umbra.... that's DE for you when you earn somtihng you oaky ith they either nerf it or a new better noe come out and the new stuff lcoked behind 100s of hours of grind.
@@maszkalman3676 bro 14 days have only 336 hours...
@@maszkalman3676lmao cope that's like getting mad after new prime stuff comes out
Umbra is probably the easiest thing to get in the game@@maszkalman3676
slots being the only thing that you can't grind for would be a good point, except for nightwave giving you free slots and the ability to but potatos for both weapons and frames.
besidees, you can literally spend like 1 hour a day to get 100 plat which in most cases is enough to cover your bases for any build( slot + potato + weapon potato)
so no, paying with plat isn't a problem in the game, it only becomes a problem when there is no alternative which isn't true in warframe
I like how half the people comenting didn't even watch the video. Though I don't agree with the title I definitely understand your point of view.
Appreciate you Tenno.
Somewhat considering a title change because even though it's honest about how I feel and how the mechanics have affected my experience that doesn't really matter if that's not coming across in some way.
The video has click bait title that calls the game P2W which is something that absolute majority of people that have played the game or did even a bit of research on the game would call lie. Why do you think people would waste time watching video that they consider fundamentally wrong from the ground up? It is obvious that people will simply point out that the entire premise of the video is just bullsh*t and be done with it.
U can literally get the in game currency for free by trading its not p2w
Well you can get literally everything in game by spending real money on it which makes it p2w. Just because you don't want to pay to win doesn't mean that others won't do it.
Not to forget where do you think that "free" in game currency that you're winning with comes from? Somebody paid for it so that you both could win.
All in all i think it's a fairly good monetization system to make the premium currency tradeable since it enables two people to win from one purchase and f2p games need to be monetized one way or another.
I love that I can so easily identify people who didn't actually watch the video lmao
You didnt actually watch the video did you?
Well the game gives free currency so no its not all paid for
@@xxjaylogonxx2321 which is something discussed in the video you're commenting on haha
Well, I don't have much time to play Warframe because I'm usually working, so I buy platinum (which is ridiculously cheap with the discount) to skip the grind and I've been enjoying the game for 1000h so far.
I disagree entirely. I think you actually lose fun by paying. Grinding for the item itself or just for the platinum to buy it is enjoyable and I think low droprates are needed to sustain decent prices for trading. This is what allows the entire system to work. Your arguments are all based on the idea that having to spend platinum at all is a bad thing when that is a resource available to all players. It's just pay to skip content.
You absolutely lose fun by paying and that's kinda my point. The fact that payment is involved at all and that past a certain point it makes way more sense to spend platinum than farm for items. Even if spending platinum entails you farming that platinum instead of spending real money.
@whyitsfun I think maybe you just don't find grinding fun ? It's the same concept either way you are gonna do the same thing either way one just circumvents SPECIFIC grinds
Unless you just outright swiped
@@greynook9852 Nah I love grinding. it's much more about how to me grinds are so much more meaningful if you can't pay your way around them. If they aren't designed in a way where that's a factor. And Warframe is the kinda game where a decent amount of the grinds, the timegating, and the gameplay feels focused around the fact that you can pay your way around things.
@@whyitsfundoesn't it depend on the grind in question though? Like there are grinds in this game that I absolutely cannot tolerate, but the trading system allows me to do the grinds I actually enjoy instead(the riven grind for me rn), and use my profits to skip the grinds that give me brainrot(tome mods rn, kahl missions previously). To me, this division of labor in the playerbase is the game's saving grace.
I'm a 2k hours veteran that enjoys the game mostly for collecting weapons and warframes and I agree with you. What you mentioned in 3:15 happens a lot to me, inventory space is my most purchased item and I usually traded for plat just when I had 1 missing prime part that couldn't farm.
I hate Baro's store because the times that I have been most bored in warframe has been when I farm prime parts to trade for him for those weapons/mods that he only sells. Is just now, after several years, that I have all the weapons and mods from Baro. Because Volt Prime was in Baro's store, I never use it for years because its relics never were available when I was playing.
Me not actively participating on the trade with platinum make my experience worse, I think you mentioned that later on the video.
Right now, I returned to warframe because the Jade shadows event allowed me to purchase all the arcanes that I never had the time or platinum to get them. I just decided to acquire my potatoes, rivens and more prime parts with plat to avoid burn out, but I still don't enjoy paying for forma or arcane adapters and for that I need to farm forma blueprints, steel essence, vitus essence.
There are literally dozens of warframes, companions and weapons that I can't use because I don't have enough resources to make them viable even if I put a potato on them, and I still need to farm to complete a lot of "island" content like Railjack intrinsics, or max rank in one of my mechs.
Prime access and platinum packs are criminally expensive for what they offer, even in terms of the platinum you get from either, costing the same price as one or three full priced games. I seen someone once say that they feel its so expensive to almost discourage people from even paying for it in the first place, but still have the option there for people with deep pockets so the game keeps getting funded.
But the prices for actual items in the game has always been pretty shitty as its always 3x as expensive as it should be and is arbitrarily priced. Why is one frame 325 platinum but another is 375 platinum? No reason at all. Most of the time the frame that is more expensive can be easier to farm too lol.
It's one of the best monetization systems in the gaming industry imo but you REALLY have to take a class in trading 101 to learn the loopholes, missions, and trading etituque to make crumbs of plat in order to buy the slots and catalysts that are mandatory to play most of the content and like you said these are rarely given out to players.
Ive been playing the game since open beta hit and ive always struggled with trading. I have 4k platinum now only because i started doing more fissures and getting sets of entire warframes then selling them for discounted prices as that is the only reasonable way imo to make sales, lowball. Now platinum isn't a concern for me but unlike some people in the community i remember what its like to have 12 platinum and not enough to buy a warframe slot.
Ayyy love to see another beta vet and that's a very fair point. The prices for stuff like Prime Access are so nonsense that as a vet I kinda ignore them to the point of almost forgetting they exist and platinum prices aren't great either. But because they exist in a game where if they were any cheaper Platinum farms would just be all anyone did I kinda don't mind tbh (even though I don't like it).
Absolutely agree you have to kinda get good at trading as part of the gameplay loop which is a factor I wish wasn't there (also why I wish they would improve the chat system). That early stage where you have practically no platinum and you have no idea where to get more aside from spending really sucks and I wish DE could do more to alleviate that. I always keep my platinum around 100ish because I know that will take care of basically everything I need and I hate riven trading to the point where I just gave someone a Felarx riven for 50p.
(which is another thing I didn't mention my PC unironically can't handle an hour-long video like this haha).
Slots were rough in the beginning, for sure. Thankfully, we now have Nightwave which pracitcaly throws them at us for doing things we were already going to be doing. "Bullet Jump a few times for 1k/10k points toward another warframe slot" We complete those without even knowing it. We just walk to our radio in the Orbiter and, suddenly, we've got two new weapon slots (AND credit toward free reactors/catalysts!) outta nowhere. Imagine if ten years ago somebody told you slots and potatoes were gonna be free and not even difficult to get. (Just don't freak out when they tell you about fusion cores)
Suffice it to say, if you're paying for anything in Warframe in 2024, it has nothing to do with needing it to progress and everything to do with either supporting its development or not actually wanting to play it.
the only thing you really HAVE to buy with platinum are inventory slots. technically, you could master every weapon and frame with the slots you start with, but that doesnt sound like an enjoyable experience to me. that first purchase gets you familiar with spending platinum, they even give you 50 to start with, plenty if you know what to buy (weapon/frame slots) and none at all if you blow it on something dumb (like a profile glyph).
Nightwave. Free slots.
I know this kinda clickbait video is designed to circle back to argue Warframe’s merits, but I feel like this kinda thing is just completely useless. 90% of people who click already know about Warframe’s systems and are here to defend it (without watching it because honestly, is someone who makes stupid clickbait titles like this worth talking to?), while the other 10% are people who are unfamiliar. They see the title, go “I knew it!” and with their assumptions sated, they don’t click on the video. Gonna be real with you, who is this video for?
This video is for the people who will watch it. The ones who are interested inr a nuanced conversation about the topic.
Warframe is a good game, but it's not for everyone and I'd say the systems I talked about are part of the reason why. I know a lot people who won't touch the game because of them. There isn't a lot of discussion around a lot of these things so my entire goal was to be one voice giving a balanced take on how these things affect my experience with the game. Totally fine if you disagree. Like I said in this video, Warframe is the kind of game designed to appeal to people who find the fun in a lot of different ways.
@@whyitsfun I agree that this kind of discussion is good and important to have, but the way you’ve presented it in such clickbaity way just means it won’t reach the people it should. People who won’t give Warframe a try because they assume it’s P2W will see the thumbnail and feel like all their assumptions are confirmed, and then just move on without watching because why bother when “Warframe is clearly a P2W game?” People who know the systems will be too busy feeling the need to defend Warframe because of your shitty clickbait title and not actually participate in the discussion. And thus there’s no discussion to be had. Kinda shot yourself in the foot here.
All the while you’re here patting yourself on the back because “haha look at all these people who didn’t even watch the video commenting here” when really it’s because you’ve presented your video as something ignorant and not worth watching. What is the point?
@@Theguyoverthere603 My guy you sound wildly insecure over a video game that I assume doesn't pay your bills what are you on about lol. Warframe has one of the best reputations in the gaming industry no one who hadn't already made up their mind is going to look at my video of all things, let alone just the title and thumbnail and 180 into thinking the game is trash.
There are a million videos talking about how good the game is. I saw at least 3 more go live this week. I think it's important, and it sounds like you agree, to have discussions like this alongside praise for the game.
Do you think the video is clickbaity because the title and thumbnail are incendiary despite the fact that they're also both entirely accurate to what the video is about and the specifics of what I discuss?
Clickbait implies I'm baiting viewers into a video with falsehoods so where's the lie?
Sorry for not being that guy who's gonna just gas up games he loves. There's nuance here and every now and again I'm going to talk about aspects of games I love that do ruin the fun for me. And it sounds like you want me to dress up what I have to say. Put guard rails around my honest opinion for the sake of some weirdo out there who will form an opinion on a game based on the title/thumbnail alone.
I hope you're not a Star Rail fan you're really not going to like that video lmao.
@@whyitsfunoh yeah there’s nuance and I can tell by the comments section of this video that you’ve done a great job attracting a crowd that really heard that nuance and are having a nuanced discussion about it. I don’t see why you’re hurling insults and calling me insecure. I enjoyed the video, I just think it’s a complete waste because nobody who’d be interested in the topic will ever see it because of how you’ve presented it.
Anyway, I can see you’re not interested in the nuances of the conversation so I’m outta here. Best of luck to you, hopefully our little chat boosted you in the algorithm a bit but I have my doubts.
@@Theguyoverthere603ur just petty and childish bro was nice to you 😂 effectively handled you like a special Ed kid with anger issues and you think you somehow "won", "look good" or dare i say come across as "smart" 😂 he's not being combative with you and if he did decide to stop effectively allowing you to abuse him with ur chosen stupidity that's ur own fault and listening to him might help you no one's perfect running away from shit hurts everything in this case you the game and the yter as ur being a narcissist
As a completely free to play player. I agree partially. But, i also have collected and grinded everything and i recently did some math with my brother. We both individually have collected and spent over 20k plat. We got all the cosmetics we want all the frames we want, all the weapons we want and can reach level cap with a few of our builds. It takes time but its not too difficult to do it without spending. It is pay2win. But you can grind for the premium currency pretty easily if you need to.
Yea, I'd say that Warframe has Pay to Win(skip, if you wanna be technically about it).
Though Warframe's microtransactions are the only ones I support and that is for a simple reason.
Platinum is probably the best "time equals money" currency, because of player trading.
The way I see platinum, is that it is a pity currency you can earn with time/trading at a reasonable rate. This rate is completely determined by the value of items traded and the players.
Some have time to grind for items, while others have to work a lot, so the time they converted at their job into money can how be converted back into time(platinum) for Warframe. That's just how premium currency works, but money feels fairly equal to time, where in most F2P games, money is far more valuable.
Platinum also allows people to skip playing/gringing game modes they don't like and focus on the gameplay aspects they enjoy, which is pretty important for Warframe because it has SO much content that varies so much in gameplay.
Opening relics, Railjack, Open world bounties, Spy missions, etc. They all have different gameplay feelings and someone is not gonna like them, and thats ok! You can CHOOSE to use platinum to opt out and continue playing what you want.
I chose to do Mars Mirror Defense until I had Citrine and all it's Arcanes maxed out.
There are many F2P games that allow you get their premium currency over tine, but usually it is at such a trickle that it may take weeks or months to actually use that premium currency which feels like a blatant disrespect to the time you put into them, usually because your time isn't valuable to them, your money is.
Also, I just love being a F2P trader/merchant to my fellow Tenno.
-random F2P LR3 w/ 2k hours.
I 100% agree. It's why of all the F2P games I've played over the years Warframe is the one I've really stuck with.
The P2W systems are there but Digital Extremes has really threaded the needle when it comes to balancing player friendliness and motivating spending. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more games attempt similar approaches in the future seeing how successful it's been for them.
Definitely agree that I love how platinum does enable some degree of flexibility allowing players to opt out of the content they don't enjoy and focus on what they do. It's part of the reason you'll never catch me calling for it to be removed from the game. I don't love how premium currencies like platinum affect game design but more than most devs DE goes out of their way to respect our time and our experience with the game.
Oh no. Not another content creator leading with their “back foot”.
A lot of what you said has been brought up by the community many a times.
I don't see how you exactly win in Warframe when really end game is either fashion frame or doing a survival for 16 hours and getting permanently banned.
That ban was such nonsense. I haven't been keeping track of how it's developed but I hope DE helped that tenno out.
And that's absolutely a fair stance. Like I said in the video, a lot of people have different views on what "winning" means. For me winning is being able to play without arbitrary roadblocks.
@@whyitsfun the bans stand as is
@@infernomoo That's absolutely ridicuous. DE really needs to change their approach on that front.
18:03 "don't buy this" the amount of platinum I spent on forma bundles is probably near five digits. It is ridiculous that you can craft only a single forma per day with a blueprint that even gets used when you need at least 3 forma to have a decent build, 5 forma for all the progenitor stuff and for a optimal build on some weapons literally 8 forma.
Yes you can rush a forma for 10 platinum but that's still just 5 platinum cheaper than buying the built ones while using up the blueprints you have.
You can get potatoes from nightwave and invasions, and I think people really overlook invasion rewards.
Sadly, you can't buy lau lens or kuva, but i think its only pay to win if your trying to go through a lot in a day. Warfrane would probably feel better for some people if you play here or there gradually.
Totally reasonable video and not clickbait. Media literacy is definitely lower these days :/
Hate to see it but it is what it is. I'll definitely try to do better in the future too. I misread the room to an extent
@@whyitsfun you approached it as level headed as one could despite having their reservations. It takes discipline to maintain a balanced mind with heavy hand. Don’t beat yourself up about it!
Personal thoughts and tips:
One can often bet on hoping to get either 50% or 75% off platinum if playing on PC every so often when logging in. Higher chance seemingly if you haven't played in a hot minute. then just drop half to an hours worth of your day job's work on like $28 in a couple thousand plat (1k for a similar price at 50%) and be set for a very SOLID amount of time if you only spend on necessities like forma, catalysts, slots etc (no splurge purchases on skins or raw weapon/frame purchases) then farm what you can for the most part at a moderate pace. I consider this a courtesy payment, for the fun you'll hopefully had.
Once you get to a nice middle point in your WF career then you can sell stuff off the market and make a couple hundred here and there to finance yourself from places that don't even require particularly strong gear at all to collect. if you know what items to jump on.
This way, you make stonks.
but you still get to play the video game.
But now you've got some plat on the cheap in your back pocket to collect frames and weapons cause of slot requirements _(which you SHOULD collect many different things because you need to level up MR and have variety in your game to have FUN)_ , otherwise you'll get bored of the same frames and weapons day in and day out.
of course, some things are RIGHT the frick out there _(like sitting around in mirror def in the labs like that one kengineer vid)_ and require some luck. But to most I recommend you don't do the "no life grind" on them, or you'll hate yourself and the game and instead make a list of all the things you specifically desire, and just rotate a few games between them whenever you can and just hope for luck. But if it's giving you grief and it's tradeable, do so to get it out of the way.
If you're about to spend more than an hour at any given farm to get any specific thing, re-evaluate what you're doing with your time. :V
--Nice clickbait btw--
Pay to win WHAT?! We aren't playing against other people, just alongside them. It's literally not possible for this game to be pay to win.
The problem Warframe has is that it doesn't do a good job showing you that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't have to pay anything, and if you are having bad drop rates on certain missions there's always trading.
Warframe is NOT pay to win.
What's even video about. Even you yourself don't seem to argue against donation being pointless for most players.
Plat is farmable in game and paying to skip farm is like paying to skip game. And even if you pay to win, there's ZERO downsides to it, because game has no competition and no one is offended.
It's like several thousand hour player just can't find anything to whine about, and whines for the sake of it, or that he can't Alt+Tab and use the damn WFMarket.
The point is I love Warframe and I really appreciate the various ways in which DE has tried to balance its monetization. However, the ways in which they've chosen to do so ruins the fun at times for me and players like me. It's a tradeoff for the game existing to an extent and I get that, but it's a tradeoff that could also be handled a bit better and one that is not always in favor of the player or the overall gameplay experience.
The crux of whether Warframe is p2w or not is if you consider paying to advance faster p2w or not. Warframe is riddled with pay for convenience content.
if only they didnt ban people from being too good at lasting long periods of time in survival, then Warframe would mostly be just the perfect game (minus the fact that I am in the weird inbetween stage of Rivens and arcane farming and not having enough slots or potatoes and like.. trying to get SP started and feeling a bit lost.
1:35 Excalibur Prime… Lato Prime… Skana Prime… totally zero non cosmetic items that can be obtained.
Yeah, that's super fair. Honestly, I had forgotten about Skana and Lato. But I do appreciate how DE errs on the side of making those items weaker than their in-game obtainable counterparts afaik. I could be wrong I don't really use Skana/Lato.
I'm never going to love when founders packs include exclusive items like that. But I do somewhat understand and not mind too much as long as that founders pack is the only instance of this considering the context around it. For example, if Tennocon weapons were always exclusive to Tennocon or locked behind the Tennocon relay or something I would absolutely take issue with that.
That's a different case, without the founders pack, warframe would've died
@@garce4469 bullshit
@JQDeathFromAbove96 how so? Warframe was on its last legs and was about to be ended. Pushing out the founders pack was the ONLY way for it to keep getting support
@@garce4469yeah wasn't that pack like the devs seeing if the community was willing to support it and help it live and the reward really should only be accessible by those supporters
as someone who has drifted on and Off Warframe since joining during Plains of Eidolon, I dont mind the platinum requirements for a bunch of stuff because its both easy to get... and even when I do need to buy some DE usually launches a brick with a 50-75% off coupon taped to it through my window so the prices are never as bad as they seem.
Plus its nice that everything in the game can be gotten at some point with enough paitence, investment of time, or luck.
though Im going to be honest the time gates on waiting for Incarnon's is half the reason I took a break because 8 weeks is a long ass time...
This is a really good video that's real with the reality of Warframe. It is a very good game, AND possibly the most pay to win game out there (that I know of). Pay to win, which is a bad name for what it is, is any advantage that can be bought. Any subjective interpretation is just a form of that objective umbrella. It took me way to long to come to that simple conclusion.
I could tell that you really play Warframe from how you word your explanations, sometimes giving nods to certain topics that's common in the community (like the content islands nod).
Also, I'm am one of those few persons that saw the 3 B companies for what they were back in 2014. Currently, Steam is a company that's in a similar situation as those companies, but for various reasons, most people do not see the writing on the wall.
I'm glad the kind of balanced take I was going for connected with you. Really happy to hear you liked the video!
"Any subjective interpretation is just a form of that objective umbrella" is a hell of a turn of phrase, wow, I hope you don't mind I may borrow that at some point. It's brilliantly succinct haha.
Re Steam: I 1000% hear you but what I do really appreciate about Valve that I think the 3 Bs kinda neglected is Steam as a business realized what its biggest strength in the community was (its marketplace - its features & broad accessibility) and leaned into it.
It feels borderline impossible for something like a potential Half-Life 3 to live up to expectations at this point, but in taking time to focus on the business instead of the art while not ignoring the latter, I think Valve/Steam have built themselves a firm enough foundation to take whatever time they need to build whatever games they want. That's invaluable in my eyes. What developer wouldn't want that kind of runway to experiment and truly focus on making a genuinely good game instead of one aimed at improving quarterly profits?
Yeah, one of my favorite activities in Warframe used to be grind new warframes and weapons, but they really ruined this with unbearable grind. I always spent some cash in WF, I really like it, but I used to spend it in aesthethic items, now I accept new frames are just sold to players like me, not grindable - and it wouldn't be so bad if this didn't double as removing my favorite carrot on a stick.
Its about to be a warzone in these comments
Mod farming is one of, if not one of the most annoying things to do for me ,especially earlier on ,and running out of potatoes or forma and having no garenteed way to farm them,and time gating is the worst,grinding all day for a prime frame or weapon just to finally craft it and now you have to wait 2-3 days ,and now its finished but you dont have any slots or any platinum or any nightwave credits,and for the longest i thought that potatoes ,warframe/weapon slots,and exulis should've cost credits .and i absolutely despise stamding daily cap.despite these problem it one my favorite games,but i feel like these problems will never confronted sadly😢
The grind is the game though, and you can get alot more plat from trading than you can from buying
The grind is the game 100% and a lot of where I'm coming from is couched in the understanding that farming plat is so easy and plat can be used for almost everything
The grind is not the game. It is the thing put in to keep me away from the game.
@@CptJistucethe grind IS the game, if you don’t like the grind that’s ok but it is fundamental to the game
@@CptJistuce Without grind, you would just have access to every frame, weapon, mod, companion, vehicle, helminth ability, starchart node, resource and booster in the game. Your fun in Warframe lasts about an hour if you have everything. Past the grind, this game is hollow and empty, with only the experimentation of builds existing to keep you here. And even then, what are you going to test it on? You already know you can beat everything, cos you HAVE everything.
@@dogma32So you're saying Warframe is shallow and empty? Gotcha.
instead of making that video you could have farmed prime parts and sell them to get plats instead of being a cry baby about false "p2w" accusations bud
Where are the lies in this video lol. What's false? I'll make a follow-up apologizing if I'm incorrect about anything that's not subjective because I don't want to mislead anyone when it comes to a game I love.
@@whyitsfun slots and potatoes not farmable besides some handouts That is a lie!
I started playing late last year and just hit MR 14
Potatoes are free, I get like 5 of em weekly from Alerts, Duviri, Sortie and Nightwave weekly and I don't even need that many. You can't really whale your way to being good, all frames are good and most weapons are viable, foundry time hasn't been a problem for me since MR 3 so I don't see them as an issue. I'm sitting on 200p worth of unveiled rivens but will only sell if I need plat for warframe slots and weapon slots, I think weapon/frame slots are what most players spend their plat on before they enter the endgame
A warframe video that isnt meat riding de and actually talking about the obvious problems Warframe has??? Don't believe it lol
The only problem i have in warframe is the potatos for all the weapons you need cuz its just painful to get yeah you can do sorties but lets be honest trying to get the catalyst and reactor blueprints and like 6 other things that are added to the loot options is just stupid. in my opinion orokin catalysts and reactors should be more easy to get like how forma is gotten trough relics even if you dont want to not make it that easy at least make it so you can get the blueprints for both of them through a much easier but still challenging way cuz at least it would make it easy on choosing a weapon and experimenting with weapons you want without having to worry if you are gonna use this weapon for a long time or not.
yeah besides that i dont really have much issues of warframe besides that cuz it just feels really tiring to be stuck using the same weapon for a long time and having like 8 weapons you wanna try to use but you cant really use them without having like 4 at best
Honestly you made some fair points, this is nowhere near as bad as people ake it out to be in the comments. I disagree with the notion the system is Pay 2 Win, but it certainly is one bad case of Pay 2 Skip (the grind).
imo only resource booster is pay to win, BUT you can grind plat and buy them
17:58 when you click in 1 of those items, it literally shows you the bp and how to get it+parts.
Which was my point. Warframe blurs the lines by telling you where you can get SOME items like weapons but not telling you where you can also acquire other items like arcane adapters. Instead it often presents platinum as the main, if not the only, source of acquisition. Info on alternative sources being available on the wiki that DE doesn't own is not a substitute for it being consistently available in game when it comes to player-friendly user interface or user experience design.
@@whyitsfundude the game tells you about arcame adapters as soon as you unlock the vendor like cavalero and teshin is not like players can literally scrool a bit through the menu looking for what they now gained access to
The correct term is P2S/PtS - Play to Skip, not P2W. I do believe that the grind is becoming much more complicated and time-consuming, but it is often for a good price Endgame item.
Quick question, no shade, just trying to better understand where some of you are coming from as I'm wrapping up the follow-up video. Do you think of platinum as real money or not and why/why not?
And when it comes to P2W, do you look at that term as limited to situations where paying is the only option? What about situations where alternative methods of acquisition are made more difficult or hidden from the player to encourage spending?
Reply
@@whyitsfun Hi, I just saw the answer today. I hope you still see it. I don't consider platinum to be ''real money'' because Warframe gives you the freedom to choose whether you want to buy it or simply get it by trading with other players, and everything that involves platinum, I usually trade and get, and I only used it to open slots and some skins that I liked. I do believe that many will be upset with certain farms and want to use it to skip, but you also have several options like trading with other players and making the trades move.
Few current games give you this freedom of choice with the premium currency, so I strongly defend this choice and the way it is currently in the game.
So I have a friend who owns everything in the game, and he earned it all by playing. Even the color pallets which I'll admits hurts being plat only, but just playing n A lil reading n anyone can make hundreds of plat a day no problem.
This is what usually happens if a new player doen't get a propper introduction into the game mechanics. That may not be you, but literally every moment of "I need to buy this or I'm stuck" can easily be avoided or even enjoyed if the game would tell you what items are valuable and where to propperly sell them. A friend of me farmed 8k plat and hasn't spend a single $ and got to MR25. Warframe is never p2w. It's "pay2not play the game and skip some of the grind which is usually and actually the fun part" kind of system. The gameplay is just so good. I bought a lot of stuff and ended up farming it anyways, because I like to play the game.
4:10 now this i completely agree
If at least there was a consistent way to farm potatoes, sure, i'd do the grind, but not even their blueprint is outright farmable outside of plat trading. Also, slots are so so so frustrating
What P2W mechanics? This isn't CoD. This isn't Season 1 of Pokemon Unite. You can pay to get things faster sure but that doesn't mean it hands anything to you aside from that.
Lmao I never expected to make a video that would trigger Pokemon Unite references but imo the P2W mechanics I described are kinda problematic. Not game ruining, which is why I'm still playing, but not ideal either.
Bro, first of all. What a good editing and video, fr bro, the video is very well done, congratulations
Now... I agree with your points and disagree with some, but the point I'm getting at is: Warframe itself has some P2W elements (like buying slots, like you said), but at the end of the day, the game is super system-friendly of plat, of the person only really spending money on platinum if it is for something urgent, in my opinion. The important thing for me is, the game is fun, if Warframe can keep me entertained, I can handle it
Hey so far at 15:35 I agree with everything you said. I am MR34 in warframe. Take care man, the hate are probably from people who saw the title. You got your self a subscriber :)
Ayyy welcome aboard! Glad you liked the video
I absolutely loved your explanation in this video and I really appreciate your editing style. Definitely dropping a sub for more, keep up the good work!
Only new players get screwed by the pay to win concept this game is 100% free
Warframe is not pay to win but instead pay to accelerate
I don't think that the game is pay to win, I think that it is pay to skip means that you could still get them but with platinum you can get it instantly
Personally, I clicked on the video to bite your head off. But, I found myself agreeing with your points and views on both Warframe and Destiny.
Thank you for being a real one
@yvngvudu Y'know, I've been called a lot of stuff when I voice these opinions but "bot" has got to be a first.
Bullshit. I just took my time, didn't spend plat on rushing the foundry and learned to trade. The newest prime is always pretty straight forward to farm and usually what ppl want to buy. I have never payed to progress and truly think it's completely missing the point to do so.
Not complete bullshit. But him saying you need to pay platinum for progression is ridiculous that is completely optional and simply for the impatient.
I came here to say that the game is not pay to win the paid currency platinum is grindable via prime part, arcanes, and more the only things you have to pay for is tennogen and regal aya but the resurgence Warframes themselves you can grind for via regular aya or just getting the relics wherever else you get relics the only thing that you absolutely have to pay for is certain fashion items
All true but what do you do after you grind those prime parts or arcanes? You trade them right? That platinum doesn't materialize out of thin air someone had to buy it. You can't trade platinum you get for free. Ninjas pay free and that's one of the best parts of Warframe but just because you're paying with someone else's money does not mean you're not still paying and the game is structured in such a way that I don't see how you build out an arsenal without the premium currency getting involved at some point. Even if all you're buying are the basics like slots and potatoes.
If platinum was genuinely grindable in-game, like say there was a vendor we went to with our prime junk instead of hitting up trade chat, I think I would potentially change my stance. Warframe is far from the worst example of p2w but if it walks like a duck and I can pay to make myself stronger well. It is what it is.
@@whyitsfun The thing is, though, that the people with plat WANT to buy the plat. They don't have to, but they do, which keeps the market afloat. It's a system where the people who want to help the game can- In theory you have to pay, yes, but so many people just want to help the game out, myself included, so we don't mind spending like 5 bucks every once in a while when we get 75% discounts.
Having played games through the '00 era of ACTUAL pay to win mmo's
Im still salty when people call it pay to win because i have a very strict definition on pay to win.
I used to play a game that was 90% pve that has armor you could buy at lvl 15 that has the stats of lvl 45 great. (And didn't get me started on the lvl 60 armor from the gacha system that you needed just to do end game without getting 1 shot or taking an hour to clear a room.
But ya. If i had to rename your video it isn't "pay 2 win" issue. Should be "Warframe rng and its push toward using the premium/player market
I played so many Pay to Win Korean MMO's that at this point Warframe isn't considered pay to win by me.
@@MsDreemurr exactly. Nexon and perfect world international were natorious for p2w mmo. Nothing like needing to pay real money just so you could buff your stats in order to even ATTEMPT the end game dungeons.
@@drewrobinson5562 reason I stopped playing maple story when I was in high school shit was awful especially after the MS2 released and they started pushing Micro transactions onto us even more cause of how much money they lost.
0:54 lmao.
3:14 minutes in
I understand your view on this but i think its just a matter of point of view
You state that you either grind an activity for hours on end to drop what you want, or you spend a neglectable amount of platinum to buy it from the market
I see this as a way to diversify your way towards loot you want/need
If warframe was "either you play this mission for hours or you spend money to get this", i'd understand
But it's more like "oh, you dont want to play the same mission over and over? How about you play this instead? You'll eventually get what you want anyways, might as well not be bored while doing it"
Like, back in the day, spamming relic farm would get old pretty quickly, but nowadays we have void cascade, the circuit, railjack, bounties, eidolon hunt, pretty much any form of late game will award you plat, just play whatever mission you feel like it at this point
I think you meant negligible. Which I'd disagree with anyway since games have long since forgotten the micro part of micro transaction and warframe is no exception. Finding anything in the store with a converted cost of under a buck is basically impossible.
@@hothstorm yeah, my bad
But negligible as in you can buy it in less than an hour of play, including the time you take to trade the plat
By definition, technically you can say that Warframe is Pay to Win.
However over my many thousands of hours of playtime I have never felt the need to actually spend money to do anything, which is why I think their system is well designed. If I wanted to I could pay to skip grinding and for convenience, but I never feel like I have to.
Sure there are some things that can be improved, and I think that is worthy of discussion, but I think the kodel as a whole feels fair. I think thats why so many people are hesitant to call it pay to win.
A good video, but the bait switch doesn't help it.
(Thinking back to not being able to farm Argon Scope, pre nerf, when it cost 900 on the market.)
It's not even that good😂
I mean, realistically, the title is accurate to my experience. The monetization ruins my fun in a lot of ways but I do understand why it's there and why it functions the way it does and I don't mind it too much at the end of the day.
Not much of a bait and switch imo. The P2W stuff does ruin my fun, I would infinitely prefer a game I could just buy where none of this stuff exists, but I think Warframe as a game balances things well enough that it's not an issue.
Change the title to something less clickbaity, because the game isn't P2W.
It has some excessively expensive microtransactions, like the Prime packs for example, but it's not P2W.
How is it not pay to win when I can grind for the resources for an item, wait for it to craft, and then get hit by a pop up asking me to pay platinum to claim that item that I already put in the time working for?
I agree with the video and I believe that grind for certain things should be more fulfilling, so that I would feel that I should just buy it with plat less often. Still warframe handles microtransactions very good compared to other live service f2p games
100% buying power. P2w. The people not showing a screenshot of their steam time and leaving negative comments says alot.
how they gonna leave a pic on yt comment section? lmao
No offense but the game is fully f2p, there are multiple methods to make 100s of plat an hour but require investment / progress, but if you enjoy the game youll get there fairly easily while having fun. Simply paying skips ingame hours grinding is the big difference.
I think we maybe agree? Why would I take offense?
clicked on the vid ready to explode ngl, read comments, watched the video youve earned yourself a sub.
What pay to win? You need to pay for a brain mate
It was a, partially, switchbait title.
Then cycling back to the fact that some farms can take real world day or weeks and in genuinely often makes more sense to buy/trade items.
So which of the issues I brought up do you disagree with? Saying "what pay to win" just sounds like you're the one who needs a brain mate or you just haven't paid attention to the game lol
As a F2P player with over 1000hours, At the end of the day, DE has to pay their bills and employees. its not like they are Activision blizzard with 7 titles out that are all making money, as they continue to release a new $60 slop pile of a "game" what seems like every 2 weeks, Free to play games have to keep themselves a float somehow. And if you dont agree with it dont play the game🤷♂They have a strong community of fans that are willing to support them
So we agree! Love to hear it hope you liked the video
As someone who's paid money for the game because I enjoy it, it's not pay to win in the slightest. I didn't need to pay a cent of what I did in order to get where I am- It's so, so easy to get plat in-game just by farming for an hour or so, and the only thing money itself is used for is skins and cosmetics. I've made literally hundreds of plat just from putting a scant few mods up on the market every once in a while, not even dedicating myself to it-
7:21 kirby soundtrack won you a sub!!
I've really enjoyed your play by play lmao. Glad to win you over happy to have you on board mate. Expect a lot of Kirby music in the future haha
@@whyitsfun such a good taste in both games and music!! I have yet to finish the video, but expect some more takes later on lol
There is no pvp in warframe so what does win even mean? It's only pay to skip some of the tedious farm time and prices are quite low if you use warframe market. Easy. Don't have a problem with that...
What does winning even mean is kinda part of my point. I don't love that Warframe puts up rather arbitrary roadblocks to make me as a player consider spending my way around them.
@@whyitsfun Yeah it's true. Otherwise I consider pricing quite generous, I got a Wisp Prime, Rev Prime, Khora Prime, Hildryn Prime, Fulmin Prime for under 5$ which I consider pretty insane. Got the 75% discount for platin and just bought up the missing prime parts from warframe market.
The real problem is the farm for certain warframes. It's so tedious and boring that players might quit before they even found a frame they like. My first frame I really wanted was Garuda and it was hell as an early player. One friend of mine just wants Citrine and it's a nightmare for him too. But on he other hand it feels like a real achievement afterwards...
Once you have one frame you like things ease up a lot.
@@whyitsfun Being monetized in a way you don't like, and being p2w is 2 different things. They still need to monetize the game, and this is the most unobtrusive way that they have figured out that still lets them win money.
@@louie365official I absolutely agree and I think DE has found a good balance. As mentioned in the video I fully believe games like this need to motivate spending. If you look at Runeterra for example that game was too player friendly. Everyone was able to get all the cards they wanted for free so practically no one was spending and as a result Riot can no longer afford to support the game to an extent.
Warframe is a game where I can directly pay to make myself stronger in various ways. It's also a game where rather crucial elements like potatoes and slots are more or less locked behind spending platinum or waiting for the rare handout from DE. I love the game. I also think it's p2w because it needs to be on some level to motivate people to spend and the parts of it that are p2w are the parts that ruin my fun.
It's far from the worst approach, but my favorite games are those like Baldur's Gate 3 and Remnant 2 where you pay and then you can just play the game. There are arbitrary roadblocks in place all over Warframe to motivate spending and I fully understand why they're there, I don't think they make the game bad, and I have a lot of respect for all of the ways DE goes out of their way to mitigate things. But these elements of the game do negatively affect my experience and that is what it is.
@@whyitsfun Yo Remnant 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 are payed games, do you forget Warframe is free to download and play trough 100%? They have to monetize the game in some way if you want content like New War and all the new updates they are pushing.
You don't like the roadblocks and I get it, but that is something you should expect in a free game and deal with.
If you actually want to win money with a game, you have either paywalls, roadblocks which still alow you to get around in a free way, or lootboxes, I do not know any other system that works for a free game, and warframe has the best by far since most include the 3 of them and in the worst way possible, a lot even being payed like BDO and many MMO's.
Anyway, I get your point, you don't like the system, but at the end of the day it is not p2w, and like it looks from the comments most people will agree with me. Tho I don't like that some are being rude with you.
We chill, you have your opinion and I think its fine, but don't use click baity titles or you will get angry fanboys deffending the their game XD.
Altho bad publicity is also publicity so who knows, maybe this pushes your content to more.
Any way, keep it up!
And here i thought my username is more a$$ but this video took the crown
I love that you went out of your way to edit this comment and it still is what it is lmao
@@whyitsfun damn bro took 3 ahh days to reply to a comment that I edited in a sec
Well deserved crown 👑
@@smileythecursedog1329 Some of us are busy living life & responding to trolls just isn't a priority lol. It is fun though.Thanks for the entertainment
Made a long comment but it was put in your spam, id appreciate you approve it thanks.
Honestly, I say just buy the Teno con pack and Prime accessories
Not gonna lie, the title and the first few parts of the video make it really easy to jump to conclusions and throw tomatoes at the screen; I'm pretty sure that's a reason for the backlash. That being said, if you stick around long enough you realize where the video is headed. Good stuff, liked the video overall, just a shame that it is so easy to misinterpret.
The removal of comments says everything. I've played for years and spent 10 dollars. That being said a point you even brought up "why would I spend day's farming a mod farm an isolation vault for an item with a 4% drop rate when I can spend 30 minutes farming to make the platinum instead." That's exactly the point you can farm the platinum or grind it out. You can also outright buy it that's your choice. The fact of the matter is there is no advantage spending money that can't be done actually playing the game. It doesn't fit that narrative...play some of these other mmos where literally your gear can't be earned in game and then let's have that p2w conversation.
Lmao what removal of comments?
I only have YT's most basic comment filter on (which everyone does I assume) that filters stuff with excessive cursing or worse links that could be used for phishing.
UA-cam's been eating a lot of comments lately for no discernable reason.
@@whyitsfun well I apologize on that part it's showed 4 comments but they were non existent.
Yeah I don't agree this is part to win... but you said the issues could be your own.
the like ratio is rough, blacklisting ur channel bro
I fully expected people would kneejerk dislike in defense of the game but I never expected it to be like this haha. It's really funny to watch happen in real time though
@whyitsfun dude you clickbaited and your false advertising just pushes the negative stigma that many people still hold for warframe without knowing anything about the game.
@@gabrielbro8083 Where is the clickbait lol? Did I not explain how/why the p2w aspects of Warframe ruin my fun? Did I not also talk about how Warframe doesn't necessarily deserve any negative stigma because of how it balances things?
@whyitsfun its click bait because thumbnail is a generalization without the added context that u mention in the video, on top of this, calling it pay to WIN is an improper representation of the game, as you can earn literally everything for free, which means f2p is not actually held back at all, p2w is when a game allows you to gain an insurmountable advantage by paying money, but anything you can buy, you can aslo earn.
@@gabrielbro8083 How is the thumbnail an improper representation? Does "Ninjas Pay Free" not describe exactly what this game is like?
Do we not need platinum for stuff like slots? Tell me where can I go earn more slots in-game without spending platinum outside of the occasional handout?
Just because we can earn the premium currency does not mean the game isn't Pay to Win. It just means it's a more player friendly variant than people are used to.
There’s a discussion to be had here but clearly it’s hard to have it in good faith, and it’s because of that title. The way the title of this vid is phrased is deliberate rage bait. If you wanted people to interact with the video intentionally, you should’ve gone for a more neutrally connotative title like “Warframe and it’s monetization”.
Not rage bait just honesty and an assumption that the Warframe community was in a position to have more direct conversations about this kinda thing. Obv, in hindsight, a dumb assumption on my part but I'm a kinda direct guy so it is what it is and I don't mind having filtered a few people.
nowdays ppl dont wonna farm in farming games
Genuinely curious how that was your takeaway from this video lmao
I dont see warframe as a pay to win, i see it as a pay for convenience. Games like world of tanks, destiny or any game with a loot box system (which is basically just gambling+p2w) are pay to win. You can absolutely play warframe from beginning to "end" without dropping a single dime and still "win"/do a lot of damage but you cant really do the same in destiny 2.
Pay for convenience and pay 2 win are the same thing imo when the reason stuff is inconvenient is often because paying is an option.
@@whyitsfun paying to gain a substantial advantage over other players and paying so that stuff just craft faster isn't the same. If you truly think that warframe is a pay to win then you just haven't experienced a true pay to win
@@blvkoz3538 I have, (like Lost Ark for example) but I'm not playing any of those games because again like Lost Ark the systems got in the way of the fun.
Imo P2W is a gradient. Not every game is the same and Warframe is far for the worst but the systems are still there.
Destiny 2 is pay to win
Warframe is not
They both are imo
I don't know I think the grinding is a part of the game and I'm part of that. I don't understand the hatred that you're getting
I love this video, o want to review it on my other channel. As a player that has been playing since closed beta, i have some things i agree and disagree with but overall, this is an amazing video. I wanted to be like sus to this video but, holy shit, you hit the nail on the head on a lot of things i have been saying for years. While i dont have as many hours as, i still understand what you say but i will dp that later man. You got a sub from me. Love this man.
Ps. Fuck destiny. Lol jk i love that game too. But after final shape, im out.
Solid video, seems like a lot of the comments down here came before watching rather than after. Lot of wild claims that are directly dealt with in the video itself.
That being said yeah I do agree with the video, there’s a lot of places where it’s weirdly more efficient to farm the plat than farm the items and it does give you a nagging in your head when you choose to grind the items over the plat to buy them.
Tuned in to hear your side, expecting a very new player perspective. Was kind of surprised that the criticisms came from a fellow veteran. While I will agree to some extent (as a veteran player, my main gripe is, has, and always will be with the time-gating more than anything), I will saying, the title is so exceptionally tonally distinct from the content, that it's really painted a lot of the fair complaints poorly, and has made the worst of your criticism feel even worse - hollow.
Also, for one, and this goes out to @Darthmuffin too, I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff is priced highly not to bleed the whales, but to explicitly mitigate people from paying to win. That's what happened to me and the majority of the people I know; when we looked at the costs, we said to ourselves - maybe it's time we pace ourselves, have fun, find other avenues and not treat the game like it has to be "finished" within X hours/for "our content creator jobs" (we aren't). And now, 3K hours in, and almost a decade now, and we have no problems with the economy. Platinum IS easy farm. Sometimes I feel like a lot of people don't realize how much worse the rest of the industry is or could be, or that they've been so use to the abuses of the industry, they bring that "must have eveerything now must be the norm" mindset to WF too. All when WF is such a player-driven game because almost nothing is truly time-gated.
But also also, mad props for also not liking Shield Gating and disliking the OHK/DPS Race meta.
bro could u please enlight us by knowing what came to your mind before making this video?
because if u neede money just say it atp
Good video actually but the title feels kind of clickbaity. Maybe saying pay for convenience instead of p2w would fit a bit better.
Pay for convenience and p2w are the same thing imo if the game is designed around it. It's a gradient, different games handle it in different ways and Warframe is far from the worst offender
The fashion in warframe is pay to win.
The rest is pay to win faster.
No basically pay to progress i came bakc 6 years alter and i wish i woudln't after that mayn years things that were unlocke dfor me back then now locked behing quests which locked behind grind on the free raom maps which i loathe all free roam maps to earn their respects every way to do give salmsot nothing per collcetiv eitem to be the tags/coins of the entrati family/ loyd etc the absoulte shit quests with no clear ponits waht to do on the palins of eidolon. Also eidolons can basically barely scrathec with the same shłt i used back then to put thme down.
u gonna upload a video of warframe jade light and one from warframe 1999? and u gonna stream the tennocon?
Definitely not streaming anytime soon but I may absolutely make a video when Jade drops. Good time to talk about why I love the game instead of why I don't love the monetization haha
Alright. Earned a sub. This video actually reminded me why I fell in love with Warframe and what I did as a baby tenno to get where I am (started during in the middle of the sisters of parvos update and forst ever prime resurgence up). Title being cliclbait sure, but its a nice refresher of a good balance to talk about. Looking foreard to some of your videos.
Also hehe, invite me sometime to play on earframe sometime, I like to grind for prime parts
Ayy thank you so much Tenno! Appreciate both the kind words and the sub. A balanced take was exactly what I was aiming for and glad to know that resonated with you. Genuinely didn't think it would cause so much controversy lol. I really just wanted to have the plat convo at least once to get it out of the way so I don't have to derail every Warframe video I make in the future with "yeah this is great and I love it but platinum tho".
This way when Jade drops I can just make a fun video about Jade and the new content without feeling like a shill :)
Hope to see you there
Bro probably prefers the monetisation of destiny 2
Lmao u missed the part where I talked about Destiny I assume? I think people who spend money on the Eververse store are idiots
Um... April 1st was like two weeks ago goober
Now you tell me rip
I don´t think It´s P2W.
Imagine a whale paying a million dollars on warframe. He has everything on him. Boosts through the Story and bosses.
Then what? Unlock steelpath? what for you don´t need anything from it. You bought the Arkanes.
Maybe some kuva, maybe an umbra forma... But you can buy god roll rivens.
So yeah, you payed a million dollars to not experience the game. They won´t realize any mechanics along the way, openworlds are irrelevant, they´ll never see Eudico´s face, none.
You really trying to tell me that that is a W? Nah it´s pay to loose my guy.
My fun in Warframe is grinding stuff with my friends, improving and working up builds, minmaxing. FASHIONFRAME.
And i get my Fashion from Trades of off Steelpath arcanes, mods and primes.
What you pay for in the game is time. That´s all it is. That is the main hurdle of the game.
Working towards something is what gives us purpose, have you heard other Content-creators say "i don´t want new content, we have enough already"?
Nah.
Bro tf is this clickbait? Kinda sus
What frame is the one with the color crystals on its back it looks cool
Citrine with a full set of archon shards. She's insanely fun if you don't have her absolutely hit up the Tyana Pass
@@whyitsfun I'm farm her she looks fun
citrine
I actually watched the whole video... click baity as all heck... The game isnt p2w in any capacity. Its pay to skip the grind; and even then, not the whole grind. Love your energy but this vid is pretty try hard as a click bait vid. Glad to see another Tenno/Guardian tho. Gl on the next
Thanks for the good wishes Tenno. Next video is way less controversial haha
I'm really, genuinely asking, this isn't an attempt at a clap back or anything, what about the title is clickbait? More so I can avoid people who watch the entire vid like you walking away with that impression than anything. To me, it's honest to how I feel and the video is as long as it is in an effort to explain why.
@@whyitsfun Pay to win implies a certain level of blockade for free players that does not exist in Warframe. You immediately started to backtrack and say the game wasnt the thing the title implied. For majority of people that play Warframe as free players, pay to win means there is content you either literally can not play without paying money, or content that is incredibly hard without paying money.
Incarnons can not be bought with plat until right when someone would unlock them regardless.
Weapons can only be bought with plat after you meet their MR requirement, meaning you probably wouldve had access to those weapons by that point regardless.
Frames arent really that far apart in power scaling, meaning paying for a new frame doesnt really benefit you until you invest in levelling it.
The only really beneficial thing you can buy with plat are mods, credits and endo, which even then, modding tends to be its own mental hurdle for a new player.
Where in Warframe does the game become incredibly hard without spending money? Steel Path? You have Nataruk, the Grimoire and the Broken War. All of those ruin Steel Paths difficulty spike. The jump that happens around Jupiter to Saturn for new players? Knowledge of modding jumps that gap, not a credit card.
MR grind is a decent point toward the game being pay to win, but even then, MR doesnt matter for long. You hit MR 15 and suddenly every weapon in the game is open. MR 16, every riven. The only reason to go for 30 is the blessings, which would be VERY marginal for someone already whaling on the game as they would already have boosters.
You didnt prove the point people clicked on the video to watch you prove. You fought a completely different demon.
@@dogma32 Warframe absolutely has blockades in place for free-to-play players, it's just a bit better about providing ways around them than other games (while also being substantially worse at conveying that information). It's not as bad as many other titles that allow you to pay for power but the systems are still there and on some level Warframe depends on players spending platinum for its success which has influenced the design/direction of the game.
You've taken a very narrow stance on the definition of p2w and apparently taken issue with how I see it. Which is fine, like I said in the video, "winning" means something different to a lot of people, but most of what you just said isn't really related to the conversation I was having in the video. And there's a lot more to buy aside from mods, endo, and credits which is actually much more of a serious problem than I discussed lol but that's for the next video.
Partially because the game has no "end" state, winning for me entails simply being able to have fun playing the game while continue to unlock new frames and weapons. Winning for me means being able to see something I want, grinding to unlock it, and having fun using it across the game's content.
However, if I want to build out any kind of arsenal at any reasonable pace I'll need platinum at some point for slots, no? And because this isn't a game about finding the best loadout so much as it is building out an array of options to use in different pieces of content I'll likely wind up needing platinum for potatoes as well since in order to accommodate any real build you need the extra space. Sources like Nightwave and Alerts give such severely limited amounts at such an inconsistent pace in comparison to the amount of frames/weapons/etc in-game that I just don't think it's realistic for anyone who is playing the game consistently with any degree of efficiency to rely on them entirely and that's absolutely by design. We could get even more granular and discuss how many systems exist in-game explicitly to push players towards trading or using platinum like the way it's functionally impossible for the average player to have access to all the syndicates and their rather important augments for frames at any given time because of the way reputation & negative standing works.
In some f2p games, you can largely ignore the premium currency but that just hasn't been my experience with Warframe which is a big part of what ruins the fun for me. The fact that I can earn the currency by trading is great and all but that's just me working, selling goods to someone else to get money, and then using that money (traded plat is always real money cuz you can't trade free plat) to pay to get rid of whatever pop up was telling me I can't claim a weapon that I already put in the work to farm and waited 24 real life hours to craft. That kind of thing is immersion-shattering at best and quite frustrating at worst and the fact that it's such a core part of the gameplay loop hurts the overall experience for players like me. Especially in circumstances where it's genuinely much easier & more effecient to just put in a couple of hours of work to earn the platinum to buy something as opposed to just grinding for the item the traditional way.
If people expected me to prove a different point than the one I did, it is what it is, but I talked about how the game allowing, encouraging, and to a certain extent demanding players use platinum to avoid arbitrary problems the devs created ruins the fun for me which is exactly in line with my title/thumb and claiming I back tracked anything is just inaccurate lol. That came across to some people but obv not everyone, so I think the next time I have something similar to discuss I won't try to balance constructive criticism with praise or my personal fun because it seems to confuse the issue to an extent.
my brain is rotting reading the comment section
this is straight up rage baiting 😂. p2win = the practice of paying to get weapons[✓], abilities[X], etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money[X]. warframe is 99% coop game . i dont wanna say 100% coz people still play conclave for some reason. advantage on coop game ... there's none 😂 . unless being able to be mr30 faster than other people as an advantage but its a debuff. mr30 is when people quit the game.
in game auction house i am 50/50 for it.. they decided not to make it in order to produce less headache for de side of things. de not having control of prices of rivens is definitely something unheard of .. even wow is constantly controlling their market. its basically free market for us which is a win for everybody.
de monetization is what makes this game work.
People buy platinum in de which makes their company survive . people who have less time but lot of money buy mods and every tradeable stuff in the game coz of the lack of playtime makes the sellers have platinum even without spending real money.. sellers who have alot of time for grind and not alot of money is the working force to make rare mods/arcanes/stuff available for the rest of the community and they get paid with plat for it. this is a whole symbiotic environment that everyone wins. i dont see any losers do you?. i dont even understand where you getting at the point of this video as a whole framing platinum is bad monetization. it is not. waiting for stuff to craft is ok coz you dont even have weapon slot/warframe slot to begin with. you need plat for that.. now farm plat
nw shouldve been a monthly thing should be your focus and everybody else focus. if we have warframe/weapon slot every month.. would have been really good thing.
Good video but. Title is too clickbaity.
Is it clickbaity because it got you to click even though it isn't really bait? The p2w systems I discuss are the part of the game actively ruining my fun more often than not.
They're a big part of the reason I don't play Warframe more.
@@whyitsfun Sorry but it is bait, 5 minutes in you retract and say it isn´t pay to win, then start talking about other games for 5 more minutes.
I clicked cause I was curious how were you going to explain that a game that can't be p2w is p2w. There is nothing to win in warframe, at most there is in PVP but nobody plays conclave anyway so it doesn't count. And as you explained only cosmetics are actually payed, everything else is just grind. Which sure isn't perfect, but some people like it, and they have to monetize the platform in some way so I would say its fair.
Monetization in waframe is fairly unobtrusive, You can pay if you don't want to wait or grind, but you don't have to, and the game even tells you that you don't have to. Example: When you go to buy a warframe from the market, you have both the option to buy with platinum and with credits in the same place and clearly visible, if you hover over the credit version it tells you what you need and how to get it.
So yeah, it is click bait, it is not p2w cause there is nothing to win, and monetization is really unobtrusive in comparison to other free games, example being Destiny which is not only intrusive but actually has paywalled content.
Even if you just mean that players can get a severe advantage by paying, I would argue this is not true for the most part, you can get to endgame content in about 100 hours without spending a buck in the game, have done this with a couple of friends, I think that is really reasonable. So calling it severe advantage would be an overstatement.
Anyway, great editing and interesting video, but should have another title, at least in my opinion.
PD: I did not watch the full video, you speaking about other games for 5 minutes straight seemed like getting too out of context and I got tired, maybe it's just me idk.
@@whyitsfun Also man, you have a dozen comments already saying the same that I did, does it not enter your mind that maybe you are in the wrong here? Think for a bit, not trying to be rude here, just a reality check ya know.
@@louie365official Believe me I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I'm right and everyone is wrong. This is much more me genuinely trying to understand where the disconnect comes from so I can avoid that in the future. So far it's sounding like for a lot of people the problem might be that I tried to approach this conversation like a conversation I would have with a friend where I take my time providing context for exactly why I feel the way I do and make it clear that none of this is black and white for me. It does sound like you didn't make it to the part of the video where I layout more concisely that despite being able to earn the premium currency, despite all of the various elements of the game that mitigate things and make the Warframe worth playing, I still firmly believe the game is p2w. It's just a form of pay 2 win that's much more player-friendly than you'll see in a lot of other circumstances. And the p2w elements that exist in the game are precisely what get in the way of my fun.
Right now my big takeaway from all of this is if I make a similar video like this in the future it needs to be less focused on being a piece of entertainment and more on immediately conveying information for viewers like you who may not make it to the part of the video where they have the full context to understand where I'm coming from. The video is intended for the kind of viewer who is down for a longer ride. Who wants to see how things crystalize towards the end but I understand how sitting through a 30min video to get there isn't for everyone and there's no reason I can't do a better job of making sure viewers like you don't leave the video with the wrong impression because I didn't hook you in effectively enough to provide the right one.
@@whyitsfun Sure and that is fine, look you will have my sub as you seem a grounded person and know how to edit. I said myself that I did not watch the full video and it is maybe just me that didn't like the contrast at the start.
Still title is clickbaity, and I think a lot of people will agree that you can't speak of warframe as pay to win.
Also, there HAS to be a monetization system. I understand that warframe's is maybe not to your liking, maybe even other people, but it is the best monetization system I have found so far in a free game.
As long as there is no literal paywalls or a lock from endgame(like destiny) for free players then I will not consider it p2w(by your description for non pvp games). You can still reach endgame in about 100-150 hours of playtime with all main quests done for free, I have made this experiment myself with friends that didn't know the game beforehand. Ofc with some help from my side as some of warframe's systems can be confusing, but that is another topic