I think the biggest issue with the 110 smithing and mining update is that it basically added a bunch of extra work and released dead on arrival content the two-handed sword really has no uses outside of a switch to use EOF with and the primal armour is just dead on arrival because it’s a tank set and you can’t augment it. They had a pretty cool chance to do some wild things with Tank gear to make Tank a little bit more viable for a class other than magic and they completely missed the mark with it.
Ugh, I just came back after a 15-year hiatus (for RS3 at least). I just unlocked invention last night and spent like 5 hours on the Wiki trying to find out what I *could* augment. And let me tell you; the restrictions are ****ing ridiculous. All the new armors and weapons made by smithing can't be augmented, the smithed mattocks and pickaxes can't be augmented, and youu can't augment random weapons like Swordy Mcswordface (but you can augment second-age for *some* unknown reason). It's like they're purposely releasing half of their content as subpar crap that very few people will use, and then actively trying to disenfranchise the people who *need* or could utilize that content. And the strangest part about all of it is that after buying absurdly expensive weapons and augmenting them their repair costs went *down* due to running on energy rather than the price going up (and yet they can still be siphones). It's like, what the hell? What's the point in not being able to augment and disassemble Elder Rune while actively encouraging players to just siphon much stronger weapons?
Bro it’s meant to fill the gaps for the general game, not please end game players. What you stated is not “the” issue; it’s “your” issue. It’s okay for it to not be useful for you but don’t act like everything is meant for you. If they release a new tier 1 gear, you’d understand that’s not meant for players like you… right? Same concept.
@@TheSCPStudio And you would have a point. Exceeeeept... The gear is useless. It can't even function properly as a stop-gap measure until a player can afford better gear. If you had read and understood what people said you'd have realized that.
There's a *really* easy ways to make Skilling profitable: Undo the changes to consumption that came around with EOC and Treasure hunter. People don't need resources to train most skills anymore, but worse than that consumption of items in combat as gone down drastically as well. Players aren't shooting one arrow/bolt every time they use a ranged skill, and they aren't using a set of rune for every ability used either. Runecrafting wasn't profitable simply because it made runes, it was profitable because people actually had to use thousands of runes (that someone had to take the time to make) an hour and the same thing goes for fletching, smithing, and mining. Skills like fishing could actually make money back when players actually had to eat food; no infinte soul splitting, excalibur, regenerate, thoroughly busted defensive abilities (looking at you resonance and barricade) or dodging 90% of the damage a boss deals by simply avoiding a mechanic. On top of that the game is still using a system that requires gold to repair gear. Back in the day repairing a Barrows set was mortifyingly expensive - as such people still used non-degradable gear unless it was a particularly difficult task and warranted the expense. Removing the ability to use gold for repair and instead tying repairs to the appropriate tier of bar/log/cloth/leather (you get the idea) would make a direct pathway for skilling to be somewhat profitable. At the end of the day no real consumption means no real reason for skillers to gather supplies let alone a way to make money doing it.
lolwut? Most skills already *are* quite profitable, it's just that combat outdoes it by magnitudes. Unless you're looking solely at the fastest exp skilling methods? Which, surprise, combat mirrors it with best gp/hr not always being bets exp/hr. Runecrafting has always been profitable? In fact, it was so profitable that just running essence back and forth was a viable money making method. Essence is still dirt cheap even with the release of Necro. "Skills like fishing could actually make money back " HUH??? When has fishing ever *NOT* been profitable or been a decent no-risk, fully-afk, competitive money making method?? The crux of the matter is that skilling is not as profitable as Combat, sure. Because the low input-low skill-ceiling activity of chopping willow trees doesn't have the risk of coming alive and snapping your neck (not anymore). Yes, we have afk bossing. But, real quickly, check how much the set-ups cost.
@@TheEddagosp @TheEddagosp @TheEddagosp If by "most skills" and "quite profitable" you mean how the Wiki outlines that the only two skills capable of making 10M+/hr are herblore (prayer pots) and Runecrafting then yes, "most" are "profitable". This is, of course, compared to mid-level bossing raking in 50m+ an hour and high level bosses making 80M+/hour. Heck, even non-boss monster killing can go for 30m+/hr. All of this is after inputs and GE taxes. So even for the "profitable" skills (all two of them) are *barely* competing with basic AFK monster killing. I think you need a history lesson on the 2000s economy when the game was thriving. I'll use Barrows, Dag Kings, and GWD1 (all one year after their respective releases when things settled down.) as an example. Barrows has about a 1.8m gp/hr at this point after inputs. Dag Kings was hovering at about 1.2m. And GWD1 varied wildly depending on the boss, ranging from 1.8m to 4m (4m being *extremely* brutal and risky bosses like solo Kree'Arra where you would experience death and item loss, so in reality it was much, much lower.) Now stop and think about the fact that a 4-dose prayer pot would run you 8k GP, a Sara Brew could easily run you 16-18K (really volatile economy on these at the time), restore pots would run you at least a few K gp (to use with the brews), a super set could run you another 20k, sharks were about 1.2k each, and monkfish were about 950 each. On top of that you lost all but three (four with prayer) of your items on death (you were *not* getting back to your body in time.) On top of the risk of death you were using on average a good 30-40kish per barrows run, about a solid 80k/trip at Dag Kings (about 3 an hour), and an absolutely mindblowing 250k-400k/run at GWD1. Let's talk skilling, shall we? A high-level fisher could rake in a full inventory of shark (raw and selling for 1.3k-1.4k) at a rate of about 13 minutes, with lower levels doing it in about 15-16. Which means fishing for cash rather than XP meant you could pull in up to about 170k an hour (That's a little over 10% as much money as a PvMer who actually tok significant financial risks compared to modern PvM was making). Monkfish at much lower levels? 90K-120kish an hour. How about woodcutting? Glad you asked - people with high woodcutting running a dragon hatchet could expect to rake in a good 120-130k an hour AFK. How about Yews? a good 65k-85k. Nature runes? Try 3M-4.5M+ with double crafting (basically the average, also really volatile at the time as more people started making doubles) - whoops, looks like they made *more* than bossing. Here's some more so that maybe you'll understand: the people making super sets? (especially super defense pots) 200k+/hr. A farmer doing the Rannar herb runs? (70k/hr on the VERY LOW end and a good 140k+ on the high end. Mining rune was about 1m/hr (you had to be good, had to fight Pkers constantly and not have your rocks stolen). Cannonballs for those of you who want to smith? a solid 200k+/hour. Thieving depended on the method, but it could range from a measly 75k to 1M+ an hour. Incase you're not picking up what i'm laying down here telling someone that "most methods" are "profitable" when only two skills can earn even 10% of what mid-level AFK bossing does is a sick joke. On top of that you have the absolute gall to say that PvMers are taking "risks" when their consumables are often dirt cheap or nonexistant and the penalty for death is a mere fraction of the GP it was more than a decade and a half ago. Think about how messed up that is; someone dies in full barrows, lose all their runes/ammo, lose an inventory worth 30k+ on average and they lose a solid 4m+ in gear, AND have to pay 500K in repairs because their shit completely broke... And that's on the *low* end of a death, God help you if you died in Arma or Bandos gear, expecially if you had a swap weapon/armor (as you should) you were looking at losing 10m+. Now people pay what? 1% of a 2 BILLION GP setup (at most) + a few million in repairs (shit doesn't even fully break, and you can lower this if stuff is augmented). That's a measly 20m. TWENTY MILLION. That's the kind of cash someone in an equivalent setup almost two decades ago would have lost on death. If you don't see a problem with skilling profitability being on average, at best, a mere 3% of what you make AFKING zero risk mid-;evel bosses compared to 10% upward (for all skills back in the day) of the hardest bosses that actually entailed risk then I really don't know what more I can say. The entire skilling economy has gone DOWN in GP/hour for mid-level player equivalents, and for higher levels it generally hasn't even reach the equivalent GP/hour levels for most skills that bosses back in the mid-2000s could achieve. There's nothing more to say, the skilling economy is decades being the PvM economy due to poor balancing. Maybe now you'll actually grasp that skillers used to actually make money, and that PvMers actually took substantial risks that justified their inflated pay.
combat not consuming????? Hunter - Penanace powders, burial powders, dragon mattock Farming - Herbs for supers/overloads Herblore - making supers for lazy combat's to skip so they can make their overloads - vulnerability bombs, restores Archaeology - requirement for soul bind contracts, linked to slayer, completions of sets for chronotes, required for any sort of relic swaps. Slayer - farm contracts (waterfiends, rippers, kal demons) Summoning - pouches and familiar scrolls Smithing - masterwork, new spikes etc. Necromancy - rituals for ectoplasm, ghostly inks Divination - DIVINE CHARGES this is just shit I can think off the top of my head without trying... there's so much consumed for high end combat its crazy... nitpicking things like runes and arrows to 'prove a point' is weird. You say people repairing for gold... most repairs for good gear require other components, like reaper tasks, or divine charges. "back in the day" brother... no... you would repair at a house repair for far less cost, Bob is shit, and always has been. The actual cost to repair is really the lowest of all things.
@@nondeth3175 Yeah, NON CONSUMING - the inputs are a mere fraction as expensive (accounting for inflation) as they were previously. Wanna guess why? Because you use LESS OF THEM. There's a reason people are AFKING bosses like Zuk wave 4 (edited as i messed this up, see my next comment), Rasial, Telos, and Ripper Demons. And it's not because they're *hard* bosses. It's because they don't do enough damage consitently enough to demand adequate expenses or inputs from players. If you mean to imply that someone being able to AFK recent content with vamp effects, overloads, and a bit of prayer (all of which don't cost nearly as much as pounding down food and Sara brews used to just by matter of sheer quantity) all while killing bosses *much* faster is somehow equal to the inputs of old content then you've got some marbles you need to find are restore to their rightful place. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that such miniscule expenses, minimal inputs by quantity, and such inflated profit equates to the same level of consumption as in years past. It doesn't matter that skills are involved in makingthe inputs, it matters that the inputs are required in large enough quantities that there is adequate demand for goods and services that skills have to offer. The prices and quantities you're blabbing about are patently ridiculous. You think losing an arrow that costs a few K gold, one set of runes that costs makyve a few K, or a few ectoplasm (2k each by the way) over the course of a few minutes even begins to compare to previous expenses? Times were that mages were losing 1.5k+ PER SPELL, AKA every single attack. Rangers limiting themselves to *just* rune arrows were losing upwards of 600GP a shot (less after attractors came out). Adjust that shit for inflation and you'd be talking about easily a few hundred K just for runes and arrows to take down a boss a few times today. So please, tell me; what in your list possibly disproves any of this? The math isn't that hard to figure out. Or do you think it's a conincidence that ammunition, runes, and food all tanked in price right after EOC was released? As for repairs you seem to be forgetting something *really* important here: many players didn't have very high smithing or construction levels. You're looking at, on average, maybe a 30ish% discount. The point I was making here is that divine energy and repairs have *not* kept up with the rate of inflation. You can't tell me that when players are earning 100X more gold from bossing that their repairs should have only inflated by about 10x their old price. And this is the problem plaguing skilling profitability as a whole, less upkeep and less inputs for PvMers means less money going to skillers. This is basic math we're talking about here. There's nothing "werid" about comparing (oh, sorry "nitpicking", AKA being accurate) hourly costs.
I remember a video from another creator lamenting the increase in supply prices before the Sanctum release which is amusing There are still some skilling items tied to PvM, such as herblore items including seeds and hides The former is only obtainable in large numbers through combat, thieving (another skill required) and vinesweeper take too long. Plant power is a band aid for the lazy and dont want to use growth potions from PoF Dont count on Jagex fixing the skilling issue anytime soon
im pausing at 10:25 . This is just a personal opinion. What i believe needs to happen with skilling porfitability, is craftable sets like you said, but they all need to have a "Unique SET BONUS" make us want to craft the armours. screw dps.(im tired of making the same armor and weapon perks) maybe start adding better luck, or increased resource effects. maybe, potion effects as "SET BONUS's" or even for new gizmos. we have the POF and RBT, and those pen bonuses work and make a difference. its seemingly miniscual stuff, a portion of players might not care for, but the other portion does. we do have some elite skilling outfits, but not all of them as well. craftable armour is an amazing solution, but they shouldnt have PVM bonuses.
craft able armour coming for ranged and magic wont have a unique set bonus, but the next level tier will for sure, else they have to give primal armour a set effect effect then the weapons and so on and so on, so i dont see it happening, but those armours will end up being cheap as chips for a long while as everybody will be making them for the best xp rates - 200m, they need to make new components and new BIS perk that needs components from all the new craft able gear
@@ianhopkins7457in my opinion, all weapons on this game should not be dropped complete, but in materials, just like with Vorkath armors. This way you would need regular skilling materials to finish it. I think they kinda did it with masterwork armor, by they went a little over the bloard with that, because it takes so long to complete it.
Only way for skilling to be profitable is by making item that are needed/consumed and are not dropped by bosses. Skilling has many good methods of making cash right now and all of them are dependent on the items not being available for boss drops and having a constant demand. Firemaking: incense + dino arrows fletching: dinarrows Fishing: Blubber jelly Runecrafting: necro runes WC: elder logs Smithing: items used for burial sets croesus Hunter: skillchompas/grenwals Herblore:brew flasks farming: herbs/fruit/dino materials Archeology: screening soil Divination: inc energy (i think this only drops from AOD?) Crafting: making urns What future skilling should lean more into is having skilled play lead to higher gp/h, like Croesus and the dino propellant methods.
If you can do pvm to fund your skills, shouldn't you be able to fund your pvm with skills? My biggest hope for the skilling rebalance, as a disabled person who can't really do effective pvm, is that is makes it possible to earn enough money on my non iron acc to buy things like weapons that you have to disassemble for components for perks that are useful, yet really expensive. As someone who can't do any mid-high level bossing (as far as I've tried, due to issues with coordination, keybinds, switches, even prayer flicking etc), would be reallt great. Sure I can do 5 mech arch glacor, but only normal mode and it takes me like 8-10 minutes at max levels and the best gear I could afford. :D so getting money as a skiller, really would be useful. Also, I prefer a whole rebalance as opposed to just adding some new methods. I like what I do. I am a true gatherer at heart. Even in minecraft I spend my time getting 1000 diamonds and all the materials for anyone else and never building anything lol. So having what I do, be a viable option for getting other things unavailable to me because of gp, would be great. P.s. I am a veteran of 23 years in the game (with breaks) exclusively ironman since it came out, until fsw and have been occasionaly playing on that one since at the same time with 2 windows open. If you need a dedicated gatherer on your team, let me know for group ironman :D I have no friends who play runescape, but I have it open most of the time I am home and am afk if not active. :D (only can't do much bossing, though never learned due to the coordination issues etc) :D
The only ways I can see skilling be reasonably profitable is to ensure use cases that are worth buying what is crafted on the regular, eliminate AFK-ability from the new items, higher alch-values, and ensure that scarcity is balanced against demand.
I wonder what people are talking about with the 110 update. It's a 110(3x a 99) as apposed to a 120(8x 99). Unless the new ores were spread from 1-110, I don't see another way to do it. If we got ores from 100-110 you wouldn't get any buffs when you level normally(rockertunies, 2x ores, Crits). There is also room now for future updates. Again, numerically it's half a 120.
@@InitYeah Exactly, there are many endgame OSRS content creators who focus combat achievements. For example, Nooblet in his OSRS Ironman Engame series.
Nuclear take here. But skillers shouldn't be able to make 100 mill an hour. Skilling is just flat out easier and way less intensive then High end pvm, it takes so much less effort to just fish then something like Hard Mode Arch Glascior. Plus besides skilling equipment is also dirt cheap compared to pvm equipment.
than* and skilling was always the moneymaker and the backbone of RS. PvM came much later but has become the main reason people play. The game shouldn't simply be about bossing and efficiency, it should be about fun again. Jagex needs to bring back a reason to skill.
The only new things from the mining and Smith rework are the new 2h and pickaxe. Everything else is reused assets (likely to save time), and just needing lvl 100 to mine all the ores felt lazy.
I think that’s they way the rest of the 110 skulls are headed. I bet once 120 release they’ll have new stuff come in. Hopefully it won’t just be reused stuff like now.
mining and smithing update: Our players have complained about stone spirits since their release, so we added a new stone spirit and made a better pickaxe that you have to use stone spirits to get, also fuck you no augmenting the tank armor and also the 110 sword you were all so excited for is gonna be useless, have fun. that's my general understanding of it, honestly solo scaling crosus would have been a better update, so would fixing dead clicks and rendering issues in places like ed2 that are notorious for issues, they could have done so many things that would have felt better
I think a cool way to make skilling more profitable would be to make a “Skill Exchange” sorta like a Grand Exchange but skillers can put out crafting contracts on the exchange for a certain amount of gp. So example; 1000 Overloads either set price for just making the stuff or making the Overloads with Supplies being supplied, that being said you would have to make the supplies on a deadline basis and would effect your profit made. Also would have to be made in a certain area that way you couldn’t steal the supplies. I just think this would be something cool and different, making it useful for skillers and pvmr’s to help each other out.
I might have just thought of the coolest idea for skilling rebalance/stronger money methods for skilling. I legit might try to find a way to get in touch with a J-Mod about it
Mining and smithing was very rushed and not really needed imo. They introduced 11 whole levels, which is room for 2 tiers of content. Re used assets, only one set of armour, one weapon, and 2 pickaxes, it all feels very lazy. I'm not trying to bash jagex for lack of work, when they have other projects, but it could have been more polished, or could have waited longer to make sure the right amount of content was introduced. Another note is that my honest opinion is that 110's and 120's don't need to be in game in general, not every skill needs to go above 99. In the end it feels like an easy way to expand the life of the game, and not exactly caring. A few new armours but nothing to use them for is really not terribly expansive. 120 combats anyone? Who knows, it could have been the company invested in jagex who made this call, rather than jagex themselves.
Mining and smithing rework : lazy, contentless, dissapointing xp rates and a 2h sword that nobody will use - was mostly chased for people trying to get their comp capes back. Skilling : should never ever be nearly as close to high lvl pvm, unless you have a high lvl skilling boss or a very active/click intensive method, but even though it shouldn't be as close to high level pvm.. don't compare doing 2449 telos vs chopping some logs. You already have rc which a lot of skillers refuse to do because it's not afk. A good solution (that is never going to happen) and would help a lot is to delete all proteans from the game.
Ive always said, the problem with the "make skilling as good as bossing" group is, well it doesnt make sense logivally outside of of our modern idea of inclusivity. Any method you force to make more money than anything else with only skilling requirements will be done by many and made to not make as much money. Croesus is the perfect middle of skilling content requiring attention and making an incredible amount of money. Bossing takes a long time of practicing, lots of gear investment(high skill and grar ceiling), and lots of luck whereas anything skiller related is low skill ceiling.
Skilling should never make as much money as high level pvm. It takes no skill to afk skill. It will rune the game and pvm and the market will collapse. If people don’t want to spend hours practicing and learning a boss solo then they should be penalized by not making the best money in the game. Making things easy for people to obtain doesn’t make the game better. NEVER lower yourself to the lowest common denominator. You’ll regret it.
So that's your opinion mine is someone that doesn't know rune doesn't mean ruin should never have an opinion that matters is mine :) btw clues are the best money in game but whatevs
And here I watch people spend the little hours of free time they have over several weeks learning and practicing a boss, and another few weeks camping it just to get less money from it than they would have gotten from skilling....
Exactly, runecrafting is still a viable moneymaking method because its actually click intensive and require some skill to efficiently do. Problem is, some players wants the more AFK skilling method were you only click once every 5 minutes to make the same gp per hour and its just not very realistic because the entire playerbase would be doing that method during their downtime. Skilling should be a more viable way of making money but like with runecrafting or Croesus, this methods should be something that requires you attention, you cant have your cake and eat it too.
Well, if you wanna make skilling profitable, best 2 ways to look into it is the impact of Treasure Hunter and 4 BXP per year. If you remove those, i'm pretty sure we can boost skilling profitability. but knowing jagex they're probably gonna ignore all that. Also, skilling need to "know its place". Imagine making more afk money skilling than doing proper dps rotations at bosses. It's all about the input vs output. Deathcost, supplies, APM,... Skilling is profitable already. Making pots, Runecrafting nearly every rune, Croesus, Archaeology, crafting urns, Divine charges,... I might be wrong, but imo y'all just wanna make 50m/h afking and not put in effort, then buy bis to afk slayer, do half the dmg you're supposed to be doing and not even know the weapon has a spec or what it does. You don't need BIS. Unpopular opinion, I know. I'm prepared to be proven wrong.
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I think the biggest issue with the 110 smithing and mining update is that it basically added a bunch of extra work and released dead on arrival content the two-handed sword really has no uses outside of a switch to use EOF with and the primal armour is just dead on arrival because it’s a tank set and you can’t augment it. They had a pretty cool chance to do some wild things with Tank gear to make Tank a little bit more viable for a class other than magic and they completely missed the mark with it.
Ugh, I just came back after a 15-year hiatus (for RS3 at least). I just unlocked invention last night and spent like 5 hours on the Wiki trying to find out what I *could* augment. And let me tell you; the restrictions are ****ing ridiculous. All the new armors and weapons made by smithing can't be augmented, the smithed mattocks and pickaxes can't be augmented, and youu can't augment random weapons like Swordy Mcswordface (but you can augment second-age for *some* unknown reason). It's like they're purposely releasing half of their content as subpar crap that very few people will use, and then actively trying to disenfranchise the people who *need* or could utilize that content. And the strangest part about all of it is that after buying absurdly expensive weapons and augmenting them their repair costs went *down* due to running on energy rather than the price going up (and yet they can still be siphones). It's like, what the hell? What's the point in not being able to augment and disassemble Elder Rune while actively encouraging players to just siphon much stronger weapons?
Bro it’s meant to fill the gaps for the general game, not please end game players. What you stated is not “the” issue; it’s “your” issue. It’s okay for it to not be useful for you but don’t act like everything is meant for you. If they release a new tier 1 gear, you’d understand that’s not meant for players like you… right? Same concept.
@@TheSCPStudio And you would have a point. Exceeeeept... The gear is useless. It can't even function properly as a stop-gap measure until a player can afford better gear.
If you had read and understood what people said you'd have realized that.
Only good thing to come out of it is the dang pickaxe of life and death lmao
@@maxderps2823 t100 pickaxe for those who dont/wont use the life and death pick
There's a *really* easy ways to make Skilling profitable: Undo the changes to consumption that came around with EOC and Treasure hunter. People don't need resources to train most skills anymore, but worse than that consumption of items in combat as gone down drastically as well. Players aren't shooting one arrow/bolt every time they use a ranged skill, and they aren't using a set of rune for every ability used either. Runecrafting wasn't profitable simply because it made runes, it was profitable because people actually had to use thousands of runes (that someone had to take the time to make) an hour and the same thing goes for fletching, smithing, and mining. Skills like fishing could actually make money back when players actually had to eat food; no infinte soul splitting, excalibur, regenerate, thoroughly busted defensive abilities (looking at you resonance and barricade) or dodging 90% of the damage a boss deals by simply avoiding a mechanic. On top of that the game is still using a system that requires gold to repair gear. Back in the day repairing a Barrows set was mortifyingly expensive - as such people still used non-degradable gear unless it was a particularly difficult task and warranted the expense. Removing the ability to use gold for repair and instead tying repairs to the appropriate tier of bar/log/cloth/leather (you get the idea) would make a direct pathway for skilling to be somewhat profitable.
At the end of the day no real consumption means no real reason for skillers to gather supplies let alone a way to make money doing it.
Ironman accounts will suffer greatly with your propose changes, unless jagex can make the consumption rate different for them.
lolwut?
Most skills already *are* quite profitable, it's just that combat outdoes it by magnitudes. Unless you're looking solely at the fastest exp skilling methods? Which, surprise, combat mirrors it with best gp/hr not always being bets exp/hr.
Runecrafting has always been profitable? In fact, it was so profitable that just running essence back and forth was a viable money making method. Essence is still dirt cheap even with the release of Necro.
"Skills like fishing could actually make money back "
HUH??? When has fishing ever *NOT* been profitable or been a decent no-risk, fully-afk, competitive money making method??
The crux of the matter is that skilling is not as profitable as Combat, sure. Because the low input-low skill-ceiling activity of chopping willow trees doesn't have the risk of coming alive and snapping your neck (not anymore).
Yes, we have afk bossing. But, real quickly, check how much the set-ups cost.
@@TheEddagosp @TheEddagosp @TheEddagosp If by "most skills" and "quite profitable" you mean how the Wiki outlines that the only two skills capable of making 10M+/hr are herblore (prayer pots) and Runecrafting then yes, "most" are "profitable". This is, of course, compared to mid-level bossing raking in 50m+ an hour and high level bosses making 80M+/hour. Heck, even non-boss monster killing can go for 30m+/hr. All of this is after inputs and GE taxes.
So even for the "profitable" skills (all two of them) are *barely* competing with basic AFK monster killing.
I think you need a history lesson on the 2000s economy when the game was thriving. I'll use Barrows, Dag Kings, and GWD1 (all one year after their respective releases when things settled down.) as an example. Barrows has about a 1.8m gp/hr at this point after inputs. Dag Kings was hovering at about 1.2m. And GWD1 varied wildly depending on the boss, ranging from 1.8m to 4m (4m being *extremely* brutal and risky bosses like solo Kree'Arra where you would experience death and item loss, so in reality it was much, much lower.)
Now stop and think about the fact that a 4-dose prayer pot would run you 8k GP, a Sara Brew could easily run you 16-18K (really volatile economy on these at the time), restore pots would run you at least a few K gp (to use with the brews), a super set could run you another 20k, sharks were about 1.2k each, and monkfish were about 950 each. On top of that you lost all but three (four with prayer) of your items on death (you were *not* getting back to your body in time.) On top of the risk of death you were using on average a good 30-40kish per barrows run, about a solid 80k/trip at Dag Kings (about 3 an hour), and an absolutely mindblowing 250k-400k/run at GWD1.
Let's talk skilling, shall we? A high-level fisher could rake in a full inventory of shark (raw and selling for 1.3k-1.4k) at a rate of about 13 minutes, with lower levels doing it in about 15-16. Which means fishing for cash rather than XP meant you could pull in up to about 170k an hour (That's a little over 10% as much money as a PvMer who actually tok significant financial risks compared to modern PvM was making). Monkfish at much lower levels? 90K-120kish an hour. How about woodcutting? Glad you asked - people with high woodcutting running a dragon hatchet could expect to rake in a good 120-130k an hour AFK. How about Yews? a good 65k-85k. Nature runes? Try 3M-4.5M+ with double crafting (basically the average, also really volatile at the time as more people started making doubles) - whoops, looks like they made *more* than bossing.
Here's some more so that maybe you'll understand: the people making super sets? (especially super defense pots) 200k+/hr. A farmer doing the Rannar herb runs? (70k/hr on the VERY LOW end and a good 140k+ on the high end. Mining rune was about 1m/hr (you had to be good, had to fight Pkers constantly and not have your rocks stolen). Cannonballs for those of you who want to smith? a solid 200k+/hour. Thieving depended on the method, but it could range from a measly 75k to 1M+ an hour.
Incase you're not picking up what i'm laying down here telling someone that "most methods" are "profitable" when only two skills can earn even 10% of what mid-level AFK bossing does is a sick joke. On top of that you have the absolute gall to say that PvMers are taking "risks" when their consumables are often dirt cheap or nonexistant and the penalty for death is a mere fraction of the GP it was more than a decade and a half ago. Think about how messed up that is; someone dies in full barrows, lose all their runes/ammo, lose an inventory worth 30k+ on average and they lose a solid 4m+ in gear, AND have to pay 500K in repairs because their shit completely broke... And that's on the *low* end of a death, God help you if you died in Arma or Bandos gear, expecially if you had a swap weapon/armor (as you should) you were looking at losing 10m+.
Now people pay what? 1% of a 2 BILLION GP setup (at most) + a few million in repairs (shit doesn't even fully break, and you can lower this if stuff is augmented). That's a measly 20m. TWENTY MILLION. That's the kind of cash someone in an equivalent setup almost two decades ago would have lost on death.
If you don't see a problem with skilling profitability being on average, at best, a mere 3% of what you make AFKING zero risk mid-;evel bosses compared to 10% upward (for all skills back in the day) of the hardest bosses that actually entailed risk then I really don't know what more I can say.
The entire skilling economy has gone DOWN in GP/hour for mid-level player equivalents, and for higher levels it generally hasn't even reach the equivalent GP/hour levels for most skills that bosses back in the mid-2000s could achieve.
There's nothing more to say, the skilling economy is decades being the PvM economy due to poor balancing. Maybe now you'll actually grasp that skillers used to actually make money, and that PvMers actually took substantial risks that justified their inflated pay.
combat not consuming?????
Hunter - Penanace powders, burial powders, dragon mattock
Farming - Herbs for supers/overloads
Herblore - making supers for lazy combat's to skip so they can make their overloads - vulnerability bombs, restores
Archaeology - requirement for soul bind contracts, linked to slayer, completions of sets for chronotes, required for any sort of relic swaps.
Slayer - farm contracts (waterfiends, rippers, kal demons)
Summoning - pouches and familiar scrolls
Smithing - masterwork, new spikes etc.
Necromancy - rituals for ectoplasm, ghostly inks
Divination - DIVINE CHARGES
this is just shit I can think off the top of my head without trying... there's so much consumed for high end combat its crazy... nitpicking things like runes and arrows to 'prove a point' is weird.
You say people repairing for gold... most repairs for good gear require other components, like reaper tasks, or divine charges.
"back in the day" brother... no... you would repair at a house repair for far less cost, Bob is shit, and always has been. The actual cost to repair is really the lowest of all things.
@@nondeth3175 Yeah, NON CONSUMING - the inputs are a mere fraction as expensive (accounting for inflation) as they were previously. Wanna guess why? Because you use LESS OF THEM. There's a reason people are AFKING bosses like Zuk wave 4 (edited as i messed this up, see my next comment), Rasial, Telos, and Ripper Demons. And it's not because they're *hard* bosses. It's because they don't do enough damage consitently enough to demand adequate expenses or inputs from players.
If you mean to imply that someone being able to AFK recent content with vamp effects, overloads, and a bit of prayer (all of which don't cost nearly as much as pounding down food and Sara brews used to just by matter of sheer quantity) all while killing bosses *much* faster is somehow equal to the inputs of old content then you've got some marbles you need to find are restore to their rightful place.
You seem to be laboring under the delusion that such miniscule expenses, minimal inputs by quantity, and such inflated profit equates to the same level of consumption as in years past. It doesn't matter that skills are involved in makingthe inputs, it matters that the inputs are required in large enough quantities that there is adequate demand for goods and services that skills have to offer.
The prices and quantities you're blabbing about are patently ridiculous. You think losing an arrow that costs a few K gold, one set of runes that costs makyve a few K, or a few ectoplasm (2k each by the way) over the course of a few minutes even begins to compare to previous expenses? Times were that mages were losing 1.5k+ PER SPELL, AKA every single attack. Rangers limiting themselves to *just* rune arrows were losing upwards of 600GP a shot (less after attractors came out). Adjust that shit for inflation and you'd be talking about easily a few hundred K just for runes and arrows to take down a boss a few times today. So please, tell me; what in your list possibly disproves any of this? The math isn't that hard to figure out. Or do you think it's a conincidence that ammunition, runes, and food all tanked in price right after EOC was released?
As for repairs you seem to be forgetting something *really* important here: many players didn't have very high smithing or construction levels. You're looking at, on average, maybe a 30ish% discount. The point I was making here is that divine energy and repairs have *not* kept up with the rate of inflation. You can't tell me that when players are earning 100X more gold from bossing that their repairs should have only inflated by about 10x their old price. And this is the problem plaguing skilling profitability as a whole, less upkeep and less inputs for PvMers means less money going to skillers. This is basic math we're talking about here. There's nothing "werid" about comparing (oh, sorry "nitpicking", AKA being accurate) hourly costs.
I like to look at things in a positive way and hope for a positive outcome. I also love RuneScape even after 19 years of playing it 😎. Go RuneScape 3.
I remember a video from another creator lamenting the increase in supply prices before the Sanctum release which is amusing
There are still some skilling items tied to PvM, such as herblore items including seeds and hides
The former is only obtainable in large numbers through combat, thieving (another skill required) and vinesweeper take too long. Plant power is a band aid for the lazy and dont want to use growth potions from PoF
Dont count on Jagex fixing the skilling issue anytime soon
im pausing at 10:25 . This is just a personal opinion. What i believe needs to happen with skilling porfitability, is craftable sets like you said, but they all need to have a "Unique SET BONUS" make us want to craft the armours. screw dps.(im tired of making the same armor and weapon perks) maybe start adding better luck, or increased resource effects. maybe, potion effects as "SET BONUS's" or even for new gizmos. we have the POF and RBT, and those pen bonuses work and make a difference. its seemingly miniscual stuff, a portion of players might not care for, but the other portion does. we do have some elite skilling outfits, but not all of them as well. craftable armour is an amazing solution, but they shouldnt have PVM bonuses.
craft able armour coming for ranged and magic wont have a unique set bonus, but the next level tier will for sure, else they have to give primal armour a set effect effect then the weapons and so on and so on, so i dont see it happening, but those armours will end up being cheap as chips for a long while as everybody will be making them for the best xp rates - 200m, they need to make new components and new BIS perk that needs components from all the new craft able gear
The pen bonus for barricade is huge.
@@ianhopkins7457in my opinion, all weapons on this game should not be dropped complete, but in materials, just like with Vorkath armors. This way you would need regular skilling materials to finish it.
I think they kinda did it with masterwork armor, by they went a little over the bloard with that, because it takes so long to complete it.
Only way for skilling to be profitable is by making item that are needed/consumed and are not dropped by bosses.
Skilling has many good methods of making cash right now and all of them are dependent on the items not being available for boss drops and having a constant demand.
Firemaking: incense + dino arrows
fletching: dinarrows
Fishing: Blubber jelly
Runecrafting: necro runes
WC: elder logs
Smithing: items used for burial sets
croesus
Hunter: skillchompas/grenwals
Herblore:brew flasks
farming: herbs/fruit/dino materials
Archeology: screening soil
Divination: inc energy (i think this only drops from AOD?)
Crafting: making urns
What future skilling should lean more into is having skilled play lead to higher gp/h, like Croesus and the dino propellant methods.
If you can do pvm to fund your skills, shouldn't you be able to fund your pvm with skills?
My biggest hope for the skilling rebalance, as a disabled person who can't really do effective pvm, is that is makes it possible to earn enough money on my non iron acc to buy things like weapons that you have to disassemble for components for perks that are useful, yet really expensive. As someone who can't do any mid-high level bossing (as far as I've tried, due to issues with coordination, keybinds, switches, even prayer flicking etc), would be reallt great. Sure I can do 5 mech arch glacor, but only normal mode and it takes me like 8-10 minutes at max levels and the best gear I could afford. :D so getting money as a skiller, really would be useful.
Also, I prefer a whole rebalance as opposed to just adding some new methods. I like what I do. I am a true gatherer at heart. Even in minecraft I spend my time getting 1000 diamonds and all the materials for anyone else and never building anything lol. So having what I do, be a viable option for getting other things unavailable to me because of gp, would be great.
P.s. I am a veteran of 23 years in the game (with breaks) exclusively ironman since it came out, until fsw and have been occasionaly playing on that one since at the same time with 2 windows open. If you need a dedicated gatherer on your team, let me know for group ironman :D I have no friends who play runescape, but I have it open most of the time I am home and am afk if not active. :D (only can't do much bossing, though never learned due to the coordination issues etc) :D
The only ways I can see skilling be reasonably profitable is to ensure use cases that are worth buying what is crafted on the regular, eliminate AFK-ability from the new items, higher alch-values, and ensure that scarcity is balanced against demand.
I'd love to see your GIM as a series of videos and progress of your account.
My girlfriend and I and my brother will be playing GIM together ❤️
Yay you're back. I'm been waiting to hear your opinion on it all
Yooo! : )
I wonder what people are talking about with the 110 update. It's a 110(3x a 99) as apposed to a 120(8x 99). Unless the new ores were spread from 1-110, I don't see another way to do it. If we got ores from 100-110 you wouldn't get any buffs when you level normally(rockertunies, 2x ores, Crits). There is also room now for future updates. Again, numerically it's half a 120.
It'd be cool to see you do a completionist type series once the combat achievements come out
Ohh maybe actually, like grinding all the achievements in order?
@@InitYeah Exactly, there are many endgame OSRS content creators who focus combat achievements. For example, Nooblet in his OSRS Ironman Engame series.
The new ore exp rates seem to be very lackluster, barely better than Animica
Oh really? damn
WELCOME BACK!
Thanks!
Nuclear take here. But skillers shouldn't be able to make 100 mill an hour. Skilling is just flat out easier and way less intensive then High end pvm, it takes so much less effort to just fish then something like Hard Mode Arch Glascior. Plus besides skilling equipment is also dirt cheap compared to pvm equipment.
than* and skilling was always the moneymaker and the backbone of RS. PvM came much later but has become the main reason people play. The game shouldn't simply be about bossing and efficiency, it should be about fun again. Jagex needs to bring back a reason to skill.
Jagex know brighter shore coming out so they don’t want to piss off their players with no roadmap
have you heard of the new mining and smithing update
wish they would make legacy mode more viable and screw the stupid abilites
The only new things from the mining and Smith rework are the new 2h and pickaxe. Everything else is reused assets (likely to save time), and just needing lvl 100 to mine all the ores felt lazy.
Thanks for the info :)
I think that’s they way the rest of the 110 skulls are headed. I bet once 120 release they’ll have new stuff come in. Hopefully it won’t just be reused stuff like now.
Lightmode aargh hurts the eyes.
Brooo I missed you man
No you D: - Back now :)
mining and smithing update: Our players have complained about stone spirits since their release, so we added a new stone spirit and made a better pickaxe that you have to use stone spirits to get, also fuck you no augmenting the tank armor and also the 110 sword you were all so excited for is gonna be useless, have fun. that's my general understanding of it, honestly solo scaling crosus would have been a better update, so would fixing dead clicks and rendering issues in places like ed2 that are notorious for issues, they could have done so many things that would have felt better
0:04 ''pulling seeweed out of the see'' Content :O
Noooo I actually caught fish this time! XD
WB init. 🙏👋🙋♂️ :)
Thanks! :D
you got a group for ironman init?
we looking for one ;)
I really have no idea so far haha
@@InitYeah it’s been a challenge trying to find dedicated people :P we’re at 3/5 for the long run
HGonz ign
I think a cool way to make skilling more profitable would be to make a “Skill Exchange” sorta like a Grand Exchange but skillers can put out crafting contracts on the exchange for a certain amount of gp. So example; 1000 Overloads either set price for just making the stuff or making the Overloads with Supplies being supplied, that being said you would have to make the supplies on a deadline basis and would effect your profit made. Also would have to be made in a certain area that way you couldn’t steal the supplies. I just think this would be something cool and different, making it useful for skillers and pvmr’s to help each other out.
Catch anything good innit?
Some pollock :) Was a good mornin!
@@InitYeah glad ya had fun on vacation dude but its good to see ya back 🙂
I might have just thought of the coolest idea for skilling rebalance/stronger money methods for skilling. I legit might try to find a way to get in touch with a J-Mod about it
I'm a simple man. You burn my eyes with light mode reddit, I leave.
Iniiit 😃
Waltaere!
@@InitYeah Yo yoos 😎 lols
My g
:o
Mining and smithing was very rushed and not really needed imo. They introduced 11 whole levels, which is room for 2 tiers of content. Re used assets, only one set of armour, one weapon, and 2 pickaxes, it all feels very lazy.
I'm not trying to bash jagex for lack of work, when they have other projects, but it could have been more polished, or could have waited longer to make sure the right amount of content was introduced.
Another note is that my honest opinion is that 110's and 120's don't need to be in game in general, not every skill needs to go above 99. In the end it feels like an easy way to expand the life of the game, and not exactly caring. A few new armours but nothing to use them for is really not terribly expansive. 120 combats anyone?
Who knows, it could have been the company invested in jagex who made this call, rather than jagex themselves.
Mining and smithing rework : lazy, contentless, dissapointing xp rates and a 2h sword that nobody will use - was mostly chased for people trying to get their comp capes back.
Skilling : should never ever be nearly as close to high lvl pvm, unless you have a high lvl skilling boss or a very active/click intensive method, but even though it shouldn't be as close to high level pvm.. don't compare doing 2449 telos vs chopping some logs. You already have rc which a lot of skillers refuse to do because it's not afk.
A good solution (that is never going to happen) and would help a lot is to delete all proteans from the game.
Osrs have this
Ive always said, the problem with the "make skilling as good as bossing" group is, well it doesnt make sense logivally outside of of our modern idea of inclusivity. Any method you force to make more money than anything else with only skilling requirements will be done by many and made to not make as much money. Croesus is the perfect middle of skilling content requiring attention and making an incredible amount of money. Bossing takes a long time of practicing, lots of gear investment(high skill and grar ceiling), and lots of luck whereas anything skiller related is low skill ceiling.
Skilling should never make as much money as high level pvm. It takes no skill to afk skill. It will rune the game and pvm and the market will collapse. If people don’t want to spend hours practicing and learning a boss solo then they should be penalized by not making the best money in the game. Making things easy for people to obtain doesn’t make the game better. NEVER lower yourself to the lowest common denominator. You’ll regret it.
Sounds like the opinion of an elitist pvm enjoyer
So that's your opinion mine is someone that doesn't know rune doesn't mean ruin should never have an opinion that matters is mine :) btw clues are the best money in game but whatevs
And here I watch people spend the little hours of free time they have over several weeks learning and practicing a boss, and another few weeks camping it just to get less money from it than they would have gotten from skilling....
Exactly, runecrafting is still a viable moneymaking method because its actually click intensive and require some skill to efficiently do. Problem is, some players wants the more AFK skilling method were you only click once every 5 minutes to make the same gp per hour and its just not very realistic because the entire playerbase would be doing that method during their downtime. Skilling should be a more viable way of making money but like with runecrafting or Croesus, this methods should be something that requires you attention, you cant have your cake and eat it too.
@@ronb7189 why not?
Well, if you wanna make skilling profitable, best 2 ways to look into it is the impact of Treasure Hunter and 4 BXP per year.
If you remove those, i'm pretty sure we can boost skilling profitability. but knowing jagex they're probably gonna ignore all that.
Also, skilling need to "know its place".
Imagine making more afk money skilling than doing proper dps rotations at bosses. It's all about the input vs output. Deathcost, supplies, APM,... Skilling is profitable already. Making pots, Runecrafting nearly every rune, Croesus, Archaeology, crafting urns, Divine charges,... I might be wrong, but imo y'all just wanna make 50m/h afking and not put in effort, then buy bis to afk slayer, do half the dmg you're supposed to be doing and not even know the weapon has a spec or what it does. You don't need BIS.
Unpopular opinion, I know. I'm prepared to be proven wrong.