Let's make BETTER versions of the official D&D movie statblocks, using Pathfinder 2e! (Rules Lawyer)

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  • Опубліковано 15 січ 2025

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  • @rayoman67
    @rayoman67 Рік тому +87

    You all were very clever with Xenk's walking away ability at the end of the movie.

  • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
    @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +40

    I see many really good suggestions about Edgin being a swashbuckler, or an investigator.
    I think it shows how nuanced you can be with your character builds in PF2E...
    aaaand it shows that they really didn't give Edgin any strong fantasy-game abilities lol. Maybe he is just a very skilled commoner NPC! =D
    SwingRipper (who did a lot of work on these statblocks) says:
    "I'm sad that my optimization of "dump casting stat" on the druid being glossed over lol. I worked HARD to make sure it had STR and CON to grapple and wrestle... She did not cast many spells in the movie after all!"
    Yes! It is key to the build!

  • @kryptonianguest1903
    @kryptonianguest1903 Рік тому +112

    So weird that WotC made monster stat blocks for the movie characters. You'd think people who want to try the game because they saw the movie might want to play as the MCs.

    • @StabYourBrain
      @StabYourBrain Рік тому +30

      Fits WotC's general attitude towards DnD. "Just leave it to the DM to figure out"

    • @theshadowcult
      @theshadowcult Рік тому +12

      They didnt. the hasbro marketing team for the movie made the stat blocks before the wotc team could get a chance to. As much as i shit on wotc, they actually didnt have much to do with the characters.

    • @crowhaveninc.2103
      @crowhaveninc.2103 Рік тому +5

      @@theshadowcult Exactly. There was even mention that the developers were discussing making PC sheets when they figured out Hasbro already made the stat blocks.

  • @nemonomen3340
    @nemonomen3340 Рік тому +55

    I might have given Holga the 'Weapon Improviser" dedication since she uses both a potato and a brick to fight with decent results.

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +33

      Very worthwhile! We could have gone either way, honestly. But yeah we hoped to show more of the possibilities of the Fighter feats and how combinable and fun they are with this one.

  • @nicolasvillasecaali7662
    @nicolasvillasecaali7662 Рік тому +23

    "The sorcerer and the Bard do more damage in melee than the barbarian"
    Im sad but not surprised, WotC always hated martials.

  • @lotrotk375
    @lotrotk375 Рік тому +28

    This is just a summary of the end result, I did honestly enjoy the earlier video where a bunch of nerds jump to the occasion of translating these characters into actual PLAYER sheets - I totally agree - you can't make any of them using the 5e character build options.
    Good job! Can you translate a rules lawyer into pf2e as well? As an Investigator perhaps?

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +9

      Haha that's a fun idea. Long queue tho of many ideas. Tho maybe would be more fun as a community project perhaps lol

  • @KalaamNozalys
    @KalaamNozalys Рік тому +13

    The one thing that feels weird is how Simon could counterspell a Time Stop.
    Though maybe the helmet was a much higher level item (since quest item etc) that lets you cast a high level Disjunction spell once per day or something ? Or maybe something like precasting Spell Immunity to TimeStop ?

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +4

      IIRC he didn't actually counterspell it but the intervention of another character made it not happen

    • @KalaamNozalys
      @KalaamNozalys Рік тому +6

      @@TheRulesLawyerRPG Was it ? if I recall he counterspelled it and everyone acted like the spell worked so they got an opening

    • @CyberBlastoise
      @CyberBlastoise Рік тому +8

      ​@@TheRulesLawyerRPGhe counterspelled it. He even says "I got better" to Sophia when he talks about how he counterspelled her.

    • @rookie2128
      @rookie2128 Рік тому +8

      i mean even the lowest level 3 counterspell can still counter a lv9 spell if the caster makes the check

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +7

      @@KalaamNozalys Ah my memory failed me... the invisible rogue had done something to foil her however. Forget what that was (thought it was to prevent Time Stop)
      In 5e a low level character CAN counter any 9th level spell, which ehhhh I don't like lol

  • @Vision667
    @Vision667 Рік тому +5

    Xenks ignore difficult terrain made me chuckle...😁

  • @MatthewCenance
    @MatthewCenance Рік тому +7

    That battle sequence at the end looked like something that would be done in Pathfinder Second Edition... not D&D. They looked like they were getting teamwork related bonuses to rolls left and right!

  • @VampByDay
    @VampByDay Рік тому +9

    Love your content, and thanks for all the work you put into it. I maybe would have gone a bit different on it . . . Like I would have made Edgin an investigator with Takedown Expert (this lets him strategic strike with his battle lute, which he does in the movie) but I see what you were going for. Also, I would have given Holga Weapon Improvisor archetype so that she doesn't suffer that -2 to hit with potatoes (or bricks, like in that first fight scene before she gets the axe.)

  • @DannarRiis
    @DannarRiis Рік тому +1

    I really enjoyed this! I honestly thought you might have gone with the Marshal Archetype for Edgin. In my mind this would explain some of his Bardic social abilities and call back to his military background. I also thought you might go with Weapon Improviser for Holga.

  • @user-eq8ww1gr6v
    @user-eq8ww1gr6v Рік тому +12

    You heard it here first, PF2E is more cinematic than 5E!

  • @GunManGunHand
    @GunManGunHand Рік тому +7

    keep up the great work

  • @theshadowcult
    @theshadowcult Рік тому +1

    This was really good. Great video.

  • @somecallmetimelderberries432
    @somecallmetimelderberries432 Рік тому +5

    Cool, much better than the D&D write-ups...frankly making them as monster stat blocks was a bit of a cop-out ;)

  • @deladriendilmegilindir9499
    @deladriendilmegilindir9499 Рік тому +4

    very cool. any chance this could be a recurring theme for fantasy movies? perhaps the original DND movie (and it's direct to video sequels?), Conan, the upcoming Red Sonja, etc. ?

  • @Gloomfall
    @Gloomfall Рік тому +1

    I think that you did a great job on this!

  • @sotech10
    @sotech10 Рік тому +14

    Awesome vid as always! Will you do Sofina, The Red Wizard as well? What about recreating the final fight in PF2e?

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +9

      Sounds like a fun idea, but alas I have been behind in my video schedule. I'd hoped to release this vid when the movie was still in theaters, actually! Seems like the window of interest has passed unfortunately, but I DO have some videos with battles planned ahead!

  • @ar3klis
    @ar3klis Рік тому +2

    Dunno, for me Edgin felt more like a pre-redemption tenet-breaker champion . So he has to make do with whatever at hand, high social skills, perform, high charisma and a very durable lute.
    Also, when I looked at their official stats, I just translated their hit dice into levels and made a bit more sense.

  • @flaminyawn
    @flaminyawn Рік тому +1

    What do you think of Edgin as an Investigator, possibly with the Interrogator sub-type given his charisma and ability to gather information to plan his heists? Considering how few times he actually tries to hit anything, waiting until moments when he has a clear shot to sucker-bonk his target, it could be that a lot of the time he's rolling low to Devise a Stratagem and opts to use his remaining actions to do other things.

  • @Melidus53
    @Melidus53 Рік тому +16

    They were no higher than level 4? Yet beat someone capable of casting time stop?? Yeah that’s a 5e movie lol

    • @mr.cauliflower3536
      @mr.cauliflower3536 Рік тому +6

      The party is CR 5 monsters, and it seems to translate to ~lv 11, but their features suggest lv 4. Jackie Chan what

    • @Badbentham
      @Badbentham Рік тому +6

      @@mr.cauliflower3536 The people at Paizo : " Control freaks ", who know all the nooks and crannies of their system; always looking to give rules even for somewhat more exotic scenarios. - WotC's : " How do the core features of our game actually work ?! Arrgh! Let's just invent some cool power-creeping new spells and sub-classes, to increase our sales." ^^

    • @Melidus53
      @Melidus53 Рік тому +1

      @@mr.cauliflower3536confusing for sure

    • @kaiper9982
      @kaiper9982 Рік тому +1

      The casting of bigby's hand is enough to confirm they're over level 4. They didn't know what they were talking about.

  • @mr.cauliflower3536
    @mr.cauliflower3536 Рік тому +4

    Should Edgin not be a swashbuckler?

  • @Ptollemios
    @Ptollemios Рік тому +3

    Wait what!? They said they were 4th level!? Counter spell is a 3rd level spell. They had to be at least 5th level to begin with! Lol.

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +2

      Yep! And they also said they didn't strictly adhere to the rules which I can understand for a movie.
      Thought they should've given legitimate PC character statblocks, though. Maybe they didn't because you can't really make them RAW in 5e?

  • @AdmiralThumbs
    @AdmiralThumbs Рік тому +3

    Mind linking to the video you mentioned at the beginning? I don't see it in your description, your channel page, or in that other playlist that you linked. Maybe I'm missing how to find it, but regardless I'd be interested to see it if it's up somewhere.

    • @CyberBlastoise
      @CyberBlastoise Рік тому

      Here's a link to the first one, specifically Edgin's sheet.
      ua-cam.com/video/MSilpcXcQRo/v-deo.html

    • @shadestemple
      @shadestemple Рік тому +1

      That is the Tabletop Worms; can’t link in comments and I am the ones that did the builds for the Tabletop Worms!

    • @AdmiralThumbs
      @AdmiralThumbs Рік тому

      Thanks for the replies, but I'm not referring to the Tabletop Worms character build videos, but rather what Ronald mentions from 0:00 to 0:06, saying something like "I already made a video proving why the D&D Movie is a Pathfinder movie and this video is further proving my case.".
      Anyone know where that is located?

    • @CyberBlastoise
      @CyberBlastoise Рік тому +1

      @@AdmiralThumbs oh. Here you go. This is the video he's referring to.
      ua-cam.com/video/ePvxw47QEiw/v-deo.html

    • @rpgamerous
      @rpgamerous Рік тому +1

      If you haven't found the original video yet, I think this is it:
      ua-cam.com/video/ePvxw47QEiw/v-deo.html

  • @Peyote-Poncho
    @Peyote-Poncho Рік тому +1

    Could be interesting for Doric to look for a late Order Explorer if Fiery Rebuke was something she used- Flame Order has access to Fiery Retort, which is very similar!
    Giving Holga Reckless Attack but not rage is both questionable and, honestly, very bad. Having played a Barbarian, Reckless Attack only really works because you can reduce most damage. Not that it helps all the time, seeing as only one Barbarian (Bear Totem) can actually take reduced damage from most everything.

  • @Enterprising_Aim
    @Enterprising_Aim Рік тому +1

    Timestop is a 9th level spell. To counterspell a 9th level spell you have to use a 9th level spell slot. There is no way they were 4th level.

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому

      The movie took liberties!
      This is more about making representative characters at your table.
      To counterspell Time Stop at your table, you need maybe a 15th level character in PF2e, but we lose fidelity to what these characters actually were in the movie.
      ... Are you can play in 5e.
      (As for whether 5e better represents the characters, they weren't really possible in 5e, either!)

  • @SwingRipper
    @SwingRipper Рік тому +1

    I'm sad that my optimization of "dump casting stat" on the druid being glossed over lol. I worked HARD to make sure it had STR and CON to grapple and wrestle... She did not cast many spells in the movie after all!

  • @aralornwolf3140
    @aralornwolf3140 Рік тому +1

    How does Xenk have 112 HP?

  • @linus4d1
    @linus4d1 Рік тому +3

    How is it that a PF2 content creator knows D&D better than the creators of the movie?
    Great video. A couple of notes.
    Druids cannot cast spells while in their animal form. So she would have to turn back into humanoid form between shifting into different animals.
    I also question the movie bard being an actual bard. Rogue or fighter for sure.

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +3

      I address it in another comment - they'd spend 1 action to Dismiss and 2 actions to enter a different form. NOT exactly like in the movie, but mechanics wise is pretty close

  • @naroe2001
    @naroe2001 Рік тому

    Where does Simons hand spell come into it as pf2e

  • @fey9915
    @fey9915 Рік тому +1

    Do Shadow and Bone characters in Pathfinder, they seem like real good fit, specially Crows :D

  • @TheKarishi
    @TheKarishi Рік тому +2

    I'll do YOU one better and point out that Doric is clearly a Shifter from Pathfinder FIRST edition. That class allowed for shifting once per level, meaning with the Extra Shapeshift feat she could shapeshift up to seven times in one scene at fourth level. Shifters are very much the class to take if you want to play like Doric, particularly the part where you don't cast any actual spells.

  • @mr.cauliflower3536
    @mr.cauliflower3536 Рік тому +2

    The PCs' challenge rating is 5 which seems to roughly equal level 11, but their features are that of level 4 characters. Jackie Chan what.jpg

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +2

      But is the official CR our official authority on what these characters are? Methinks not!

    • @mr.cauliflower3536
      @mr.cauliflower3536 Рік тому +1

      @@TheRulesLawyerRPG I'm saying this is a WTF moment, since their CR puts them at level 11 but their features are that of a level 4 PC. It's just so weird.

  • @morganpetros9635
    @morganpetros9635 Рік тому +2

    How to put this without being COMPLETELY insulting to WotC ... ?
    Naw, screw that. WotC deserves whatever it gets after the OGL bullsh!t and the "Let's Send Pinkertons to Intimidate a Customer after OUR Fu©kup" scandal.
    So ... turning characters people would have wanted to PLAY into monster stat blocks was just stupid beyond belief. And though I might not agree with ALL of your choices (for example, bards should have spells whether the movie showed them being cast or not, and the same goes for barbarians and Rage), I am incredibly (in fact, idiotically) happy to see that you turned these into characters that could actually be played. 😉

  • @kalleendo7577
    @kalleendo7577 Рік тому

    Bravo!

  • @stephenjennings6594
    @stephenjennings6594 Рік тому

    Wasn't Holga a dwarf in the movie?

    • @bluemonkey1886
      @bluemonkey1886 Рік тому

      I think she was supposed to be a Goliath or just big human

  • @jasonsunday2932
    @jasonsunday2932 Рік тому

    Are the tiers an official thing?

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +1

      No it's just us being silly and meming on the official statblocks

  • @tomm35
    @tomm35 Рік тому

    I think it would have been more fitting for Xenk to be a fetchling

  • @phasestar7787
    @phasestar7787 Рік тому +2

    Good examples. Try building the villains too?

  • @DeclanFeeney
    @DeclanFeeney Рік тому +9

    Edgin is clearly a wits swashbuckler…

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +12

      I don't know! I don't think he did much panache-empowered fighting himself, so that makes me hesitate

    • @StabYourBrain
      @StabYourBrain Рік тому +7

      He never fights anyone except for one random dude he smacks in the face with his lute near the beginning.

  • @szegediadam8793
    @szegediadam8793 Рік тому

    Noooo Edgin is not dandy, he's a weapon inproviser, he only hit's with his instrument, and he do it fairly proficiently

  • @WarlockCD
    @WarlockCD Рік тому +1

    I saw this idea that Edgin is casting spells, just sneakily. He's using friends and Suggestion, spells you supposed to slip in conversation's covertly. I still think rouge is a good pick but sneak attack never felt right to me for Edgin. Maybe something between the two but either way. Loved the rest. I had no idea Simon was a wild magic when i watched it. I made the rest of the connections but not him.

  • @terrymullins7338
    @terrymullins7338 Рік тому

    Interesting watch. You should do the bad guys next.

  • @gaidencastro9706
    @gaidencastro9706 Рік тому +5

    Was it worth it?

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +17

      We had fun making them if that's what you're asking! And the more people who see PF2's possibilities the better. So yes.

    • @lucasantenor2395
      @lucasantenor2395 Рік тому +3

      ?

  • @Laufbursche4u
    @Laufbursche4u Рік тому +2

    Pf2e Beginner here. Pf is better, but not perfect. In order to change from one animal to another, a druid has to return to human to speak the next transformation spell.
    (Or do I miss something? )

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому +9

      Yes, but the Dismiss action only takes 1 action, and the shapechange spells cost 2 actions. So noooooot exactly like in the movie! =D

    • @Laufbursche4u
      @Laufbursche4u Рік тому +5

      @@TheRulesLawyerRPG Thx for the answer. By the way, you haven't a good job, but a great one with this clip. (And with many others. You are really helping me to learn Pf2e. Thank you for that, too.)

    • @rylandrc
      @rylandrc Рік тому +2

      I was also thinking about this. Also in the movie when Doric is introduced, she has been undercover in a horse form for apparently a long time, which isn't very achievable in Pathfinder 2e until the very high levels. Not sure if this is achievable in 5e either.

    • @rylandrc
      @rylandrc Рік тому

      Only thing I can think of is something like a Kitsune or anadi which can stay permanently in their alternate form if they so desire.

    • @TheRulesLawyerRPG
      @TheRulesLawyerRPG  Рік тому

      @@rylandrc I think it is achievable in 5e since it can last longer. Hmm

  • @mr.cauliflower3536
    @mr.cauliflower3536 Рік тому +1

    PCs not getting hit too often can be explained with the "HP is not so much a measure of health, but of ability to avoid lethal (or at least combat ending) blows)"

  • @XoriniteWisp
    @XoriniteWisp Рік тому +2

    This doesn't really matter, but to be extra nitpicky - Doric isn't part tiefling, she is a tiefling, period. That's how tieflings looked prior to 4th edition D&D (and is also an option for newly born tieflings).

    • @kryptonianguest1903
      @kryptonianguest1903 Рік тому +3

      I'm curious. What do, for example, tieflings born to dwarven parents look like in the Realms? Do they still look so human?

    • @XoriniteWisp
      @XoriniteWisp Рік тому +3

      @@kryptonianguest1903 Unless things have changed recently, tieflings are exclusively planetouched humans in the Forgotten Realms. Elves have their own variant called fey'ri, but I haven't ever heard of a tiefling equivalent for dwarves.
      The reason they look so similar and distinct in 4th and 5th edition is that in lore, a bunch of warlocks completed a ritual that bound every human with even a hint of tiefling heritage to Asmodeus, even if they normally passed as human, and changed them physically into the tieflings of those editions (thus prompting more acceptance into society, since so many appeared all at once, especially in noble families). But any tiefling bloodlines that were established after that ritual took place can still look like the "traditional" tiefling, like Doric does in the movie.

    • @zanzaklaus2496
      @zanzaklaus2496 Рік тому +10

      I think "half tiefling" is a bit of a misspeak from Ronald. In Pathfinder tieflings are a versatile heritage: there are no tiefling that are 100% devil, they are infernal traits that manifested in some kind of other mortal lineage or family at some point, so you essentially add the infernal heritage onto another race. So you can have tieflings born to elven families, and their ancestry will be elf, but their heritage will be tiefling. Same with aasimar, genasi, beastkin, etc. In dnd 5e it's assumed tieflings come from humans iirc so there's no specification, but pf2e tieflings are still just straight up caled tieflings. You just get to choose the base ancestry they came from too.

    • @XoriniteWisp
      @XoriniteWisp Рік тому +1

      @@zanzaklaus2496 I agree. Amd his conclusion for the PF2 statblock for Doric is spot on, so like I said - it doesn't really matter. It was just a tiny nitpick!

    • @tomm35
      @tomm35 Рік тому +1

      @@kryptonianguest1903 In Forgotten Realms, tieflings are no longer a subspecies, but their own people and the child will always be a tiefling, if either parent is one. This happened when Asmodeus tried to become a deity. Not sure on the exact details, but he replaced the "random" fiendish blood in them with his own. Doing so turned him into their default racial-patron deity, much how dwarves and elves have their own "ancestral god". He did that since the more followers a god has, the stronger said god is.
      But to answer your question - tieflings are specifically human fiend-born. Fey'ri were the elven equivalent. Tanarukk (which still exist as a monster in 5e) are the orcish equivalent. Maeluth are dwarven. Basically, each fiend-born from a different race (or species, I should now say) had its own name. Halflings, gnomes, etc.

  • @drkmgic
    @drkmgic Рік тому

    i hate that chris prat did not do any arcane magic at all!!!

  • @bobhill-ol7wp
    @bobhill-ol7wp Рік тому

    Now truly ascend and make them in Savage Worlds.

  • @rynowatcher
    @rynowatcher Рік тому +1

    I do not think pathfinder does a good job modeling these characters; look at all the extra junk that was put in to meet arbitrary level rewards.
    I would also say the Druid in pf2e might still have other spells and there were points in the movie where she could not have prepared the animal forms she needed/used (ie, turning into a worm to get under the whole she dug in the floor the portal was at or the snake to escape the gelatinous cube).
    The bard is not casting spells, but he is also not back stabbing people. Changing him to a rougue does not fit the movie persona, but the movie persona also does not fit any class as it is a non-martial, non-spell casting social character which is not present in either game. They did not give him spells in the movie the same the Druid and paladin did not have them; non-gamers would be confused why they need a sorcerer if they can all use magic.
    Hp is not points of meat damage in d&d; never has been. Helga is taking hp damage when the soldiers are attacking her; the system defines hp as luck & stamina to make last minute dodges, so low ac with high hp seems right there. They gimped her damage output to balance the party a bit, which makes no sense in the movie but does if the intended you to actually use the stat block (they have stated Volo, Mortenkinen, and a few others in 5e as supporting npc's and they always make them really weak so they do not outshine the pc's).
    I like the mental process, but I think a 5e monster stat block is a better way to trap a character who breaks common class and game rules (ie, a Druid that cannot cast spells and only wild shape) as d&d has done this with unique npc's or monsters before quite a bit. A unique creature is best represented by breaking the rules not trying to make them fit in a rule set.

  • @vamphunterx
    @vamphunterx Рік тому

    It is a DUNGEONS & DRAGONS movie. D&D lives rent free in your head, doesn't it. Good thing Paizo can always count on one of their many cheerleaders.

  • @RaymartFriginal
    @RaymartFriginal Рік тому

    Amazing videos you have and very entertaining channel.
    Can I send you an email?