Great video. Just what I needed. Fyi, 240v does not use a neutral. It uses two hots and a ground. That white wire is a hot, that should be taped black or red on both ends.
Outstanding presentations. Just what I was looking for. Planning to set up a "hunter's cabin" at our remote acreage and run a shallow well pump to irrigate our gardens on a timer for when we're not there.
If you usually only lose power for a few to several hours don't need batteries just get a 12 to 230V inverter with the correct wattage, hook it up to your car and when you lose power run the power off your car, only need to run the car when you need water. We also have another 12V to 110V inverter and our other car runs the appliances (especially fridge and freezer in garage), internet ... etc. So many people buy expensive generators when your car is already a powerful generator, all you need is to convert the 12V to 110V or 220V. Make sure to get the RIGHT inverter, calculate the wattage you need and what kind of power (pure or modified sine wave).
For my well pump, I'm worried about the amp draw on a 12v system. Plus, my car is a Nissan Leaf, which does not have an inverter, instead a DC2DC converter rated around 1,500 watts max.
@@summetj Plus sounds like you're kind of off the grid and lose power for longer periods so your solution makes more sense for your situation. For water we also usually just put some in the bathtub to use in the toilette tank when a stronger storm is approaching and predicting power outage - it's just easier and we usually only lose power for 2-4 hours. Running the fridge, freezer and just a few low consumption equipment are definitely our bigger priorities and fortunately have a 3.6 L V6 engine in our Chrysler 200 currently also hooked to a 1500W pure sine wave inverter. Thanks for the video though, it did give me a better idea of how to go about our pump for our situation.
@@tibork3845 Not really, just in Florida, so when we lose power due to a Hurricane...it can be 3-7 days before we get it back. (or very rarely even worse...)
Jay thanks for making (part 1 & 2) on well pump on batteries. I was thinking about building a system for my house as a back up for emergency use also. Thanks!
Very helpful. Now how to apply all this great input and information to 4 deep cell battery packs sold by Goal Zero and their 4 circut switch system which I already have. (I had a Goal Zero 1400W original solar/AC powered lithium battery already so ordered their complete 4 circut and storage battery system on sale early 2021. OOPS happens. Turned out the new well I thought was on 120 and the sump pump for our gas furnace is actually 240V so that stuck a wrench in the entire process. Or thought process & our rural area is low on electicians to help with that or reliable professional back up. So these batteries have sat new in their boxes for over 7 months and that's probably a no no. No doubt need to get these set up to be charged via the GZ1400 via AC SOON even if not set up to their circut box and that to our main circut box. Anyway our lennox LP furnace needs to be hooked up to a sump pump and it's installed in our 12 foot deep basement. And sump pump along with new Well (no holding tank system) circuts run through our basement breaker box along with the rest of the homes 110/120V. DANG life is never as simple as one thinks it should be. I had the idea then to just buy a second GZ four circut breaker box and 2-4 more storage batteries they sell and to switch out two breakers in new stand alone box and battery system to 240V circuts. WHY NOT? Well does not help that GZ yelled at me NOOOO DO NOT DO THAT !!!!! I question why not? Someone said it could be done. So I also suspect there is truth in both ways of thinking. I suspect the GZ 1400W original lithiums not the X as I know little about the newer X line is it doesn't work well with the outlay of a 240V set up even if the storage batteries which are deep cells can be used with a properly inverted/converted 240 lay out as demonstrated here and in Part 1 too. It would be helpful to find a reliable electrcian here in NW MT in rural area that's lacking quality journeymen. Those who are good are often over booked. But these videos are definitely helpful and let me know that it is possible to have a decent reliable and pretty SAFE battery back up for a 240 Well. Oh and I just learned that the sump pump is 120. But needs to be rewired on separate circut so the water softener does not run during power outages as that would require the WELL turning on at random times. Circles and circuts it has me running around & around for sure. Stay safe everyone.
I'm afraid the Yeti Goal Zero won't be able to run a 240 volt well pump. (You could buy a 120->240 transformer to use it to run small 240 volt appliances, but it doesn't have enough capacity for a 240 volt well pump.)
Jay, your videos have been helpful for me to figure out how I want to go about getting backup power to my well pump. I wanted to see if you thought this would work, based on your experience running your pump off an inverter: I have a v8 van that I would like to use to power a ~4000-6000W inverter for very intermittent backup power use. I really am only interested in being able to run my well pump and it would only need to run minimally. The pump runs less than 2 mins to charge up my pressure tank and in an emergency situation running the pump only once or twice per day would be acceptable (pressure tank has 26 gal usable volume between 60/40 psi). The pump is 240 V, 1/2 hp and uses capacitor start so I hope the start current inrush is not too high. I measured 5.6 A current while it is running = 1400 W. I would prefer to be able to use an existing 12V battery that I already need (like in my van) instead of creating a stand alone battery for backup. But, I don't know if a single 12V battery with only 50 Ah capacity would work ok. If I run my pump for 3 mins, capacity used from battery would be 10Ah = 2000W * (3/60)hr / (12 V * 0.8 efficiency). This makes me think that it would be fine, and I would run the van while running the pump to get some charging from the alternator. During the time the pump is running, amperage draw from the 12V battery would be 140 A = 1400W / (12 V * 0.8 effeciency). Can I just make up 4/0 battery leads and be ok or is this kind of amperage draw too much for a single 12V battery, sustained over 3 mins? If you had thoughts on whether this had a chance at working acceptably or not I would appreciate your input. Thanks!
Running the alternator will give you 40 amps into the battery, so it would only need to produce 100 amps for ~ 3 minutes. I'd mostly worry about the startup surge, as you will probably need 4x the watts & Amps for a second to initially start the pump. My LiIon batteries struggle with this....but, a starting battery IS optimized for "cold cranking amps" so you may well be able to draw 400 amps for a second out of a 12v starter battery. I went with a 24 volt system to give myself half the current draw, but it sounds like your pump is about half the size of my 1 hp one. It might work out just fine..but you are running close to the limits. You might consider investigating an upgraded heavy duty alternator to get 60 or 80 amps from the engine....anything you can do to limit voltage sag on that startup current draw will help. [I think finding a 12v inverter that can surge start a 1/2 hp pump will also be tricky....many inverters in that size range start at 24 or 48 volts....]
@@summetj Thanks, Jay. I am thinking I will try it. There are a few inverters that I have found in the 3600W - 5000W range that seem like they could work. A high output alternator should be available if I need it.
@@pattyliterati164 Just keep in mind that the startup surge is what you need to size the inverter for. I used a "low frequency" inverter (with a large transformer) that is better able to handle startup surges for my well pump, and it still struggled. If you use a "high frequency" inverter without a transformer, you will need to size it significantly larger than your continuous draw requirements.
@@summetj Jay, yes I am planning on a low frequency inverter. I may buy a Sensata. They are very expensive but they sound reliable- the Sensata N series are often used on service trucks and they claim to be able to start 2hp motors for the biggest 12V model. There is another idea in the back of my mind that I thought using a 12 VDC inverter would be beneficial for: using an EV as power source during power outages. I don't have an EV but am hoping to buy one in the next year or two. They all have a 12VDC output that is capable of supplying ~1500W it would seem (I have only checked leaf and bolt and found info saying ~1500W ok to draw from 12 VDC connection). You are doing this, except converting to to 24 VDC, right?
@@pattyliterati164 Yes, I have a 120v ac charger that will charge my 24v battery (it only draws around 500 watts). So with a 1,000 watt inverter I can re-charge the well pump battery from my Nissan Leaf (or any automobile with a 12v battery).
What a great series!! I have a 2 HP well pump (its deep). 240V, 20A breaker on each leg. That would seem to be 5000W max. Its rated at 10A continuous. 13.2 Amps S.F. rating. Its a capacitor start, not soft or super-capacitor. What size inverter do I need to handle the inrush? If yours is 1HP and 2400 watts, Mine at 2 HP and 5000 watts would seem to be right?
I want to run a 1 HP well pump permanently on battery bank, about a year ago I came across 8x Fullriver DC400-6 > 6 Volt 415 Amp Hour AGM Batteries for $500 (New) and bought them, since then they were float charging in 24 volts configuration, the voltage never dropped below 25 volts so I decided to buy Sigineer Power 6000W 24V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger,24Vdc and 240Vac Input to 120V 240V AC Split Phase Output,18000W Surge in order to run not just the well pump but also my hybrid water heater and a mini split AC, the well pump barely comes on because it's equipped with 4 large pressure tanks, the water heater comes ON only during the day time, however I want to keep running the mini split the whole day. Now Do you think the batteries can handle these loads? I know the inverter with its 18000 watts surge can but I hate to trash these expensive batteries.
6v * 415 A = 2,490 watt = 2.4 kW. Because these are lead acid batteries, you won't want to go below 50% charged, so that gives 1.2 kW of usable power from each battery ( when new, if they actually meet their specifications). Since you have 8 of them, that would be 9.6 kWh of power available in your batteries. With inverter losses, say 9kWh you can use. From an Amp/Load/current draw standpoint, I assume you have the 8 batteries in a 4S2P setup (giving 24 volts at 830 amp hours). Assuming you draw 200 amps, that is 4.8 kW continuous which I would not expect to be a problem for a 24v 830 amp hour capacity battery bank. (It would run for ~ 2 hours at this rate before reaching 50% state of charge).
600-800 ah lead acid batteries would take up a lot of space, weigh a lot, and cost a lot of money. I also wanted this battery to be light weight so I could use it in my boat when not using it for power backup.
Great videos. Did you consider skipping one of the series' of 12V batteries in your examples and instead applying that money to a small solar panel and charge controller? If your pump only uses about 200 watt hours in a day, and you can weight that toward daytime hours simply by not using much water at night, then you don't really need a very deep battery if you have a solar panel that can keep the batteries topped up during the day. And solar panels seem to have alot more life to them than batteries with less maintenance.
The main reason I didn't want to go with only two 12v AGM batteries to get a 24v system is that I am worried about drawing 125 amps out of a single 100AH (50AH usable) AGM battery. The 6v GC2 batteries are designed for high amp output, and are rated at 220 AH (110 usable), and I feel much more comfortable drawing 125 amps out of them.
But yes, topping the system up in the day via solar is very viable, and I may add something like that later. I'll be doing a video on building the battery, and selecting the inverter, and testing the system, and then I'll do a video about how I charge the battery where I'll explain how I have a 24 kWh electric vehicle battery bank sitting in my driveway, and how I plan on using that to top up the little system if the power outage goes for multiple days.
20 amps at 120 volts is 2,400 watt continuous draw, but unless it's s "soft start" pump, you'll probably need 3-5x that for the startup surge so I'd recommend an 8,000 watt inverter (possibly 10,000 watt if it's not a "low frequency" model with a large transformer). [A high quality 2,500 watt inverter may be rated to do a 8-10k watt start-up surge....but for cheap inverters treat their rating as the "surge rating".] The only way to know for sure however is to buy the inverter and try it.
@@summetj Thank you Jay. What size panels are you running ? I'm in Nevada with an 80ft deep well and thing of switching to solar , so yup I'm picking your brain. Thanks Jackman
@@jackman1305 I do not have solar panels (directly) tied into the well pump backup system. (I run it off of my 24 kWh battery pack in my S-10 pickup truck if there is a power outage). We do have solar panels (grid-tie) on our house, they are 290 watt panels 65x39 inches, but they do not help in a power outage as they are connected to a grid-tied inverter.
Great video. Just what I needed. Fyi, 240v does not use a neutral. It uses two hots and a ground. That white wire is a hot, that should be taped black or red on both ends.
Outstanding presentations. Just what I was looking for. Planning to set up a "hunter's cabin" at our remote acreage and run a shallow well pump to irrigate our gardens on a timer for when we're not there.
If you usually only lose power for a few to several hours don't need batteries just get a 12 to 230V inverter with the correct wattage, hook it up to your car and when you lose power run the power off your car, only need to run the car when you need water. We also have another 12V to 110V inverter and our other car runs the appliances (especially fridge and freezer in garage), internet ... etc. So many people buy expensive generators when your car is already a powerful generator, all you need is to convert the 12V to 110V or 220V. Make sure to get the RIGHT inverter, calculate the wattage you need and what kind of power (pure or modified sine wave).
For my well pump, I'm worried about the amp draw on a 12v system. Plus, my car is a Nissan Leaf, which does not have an inverter, instead a DC2DC converter rated around 1,500 watts max.
@@summetj Plus sounds like you're kind of off the grid and lose power for longer periods so your solution makes more sense for your situation. For water we also usually just put some in the bathtub to use in the toilette tank when a stronger storm is approaching and predicting power outage - it's just easier and we usually only lose power for 2-4 hours. Running the fridge, freezer and just a few low consumption equipment are definitely our bigger priorities and fortunately have a 3.6 L V6 engine in our Chrysler 200 currently also hooked to a 1500W pure sine wave inverter. Thanks for the video though, it did give me a better idea of how to go about our pump for our situation.
@@tibork3845 Not really, just in Florida, so when we lose power due to a Hurricane...it can be 3-7 days before we get it back. (or very rarely even worse...)
Jay thanks for making (part 1 & 2) on well pump on batteries. I was thinking about building a system for my house as a back up for emergency use also. Thanks!
Well pump batteries of course!
Very helpful. Now how to apply all this great input and information to 4 deep cell battery packs sold by Goal Zero and their 4 circut switch system which I already have. (I had a Goal Zero 1400W original solar/AC powered lithium battery already so ordered their complete 4 circut and storage battery system on sale early 2021. OOPS happens. Turned out the new well I thought was on 120 and the sump pump for our gas furnace is actually 240V so that stuck a wrench in the entire process. Or thought process & our rural area is low on electicians to help with that or reliable professional back up. So these batteries have sat new in their boxes for over 7 months and that's probably a no no. No doubt need to get these set up to be charged via the GZ1400 via AC SOON even if not set up to their circut box and that to our main circut box. Anyway our lennox LP furnace needs to be hooked up to a sump pump and it's installed in our 12 foot deep basement. And sump pump along with new Well (no holding tank system) circuts run through our basement breaker box along with the rest of the homes 110/120V. DANG life is never as simple as one thinks it should be. I had the idea then to just buy a second GZ four circut breaker box and 2-4 more storage batteries they sell and to switch out two breakers in new stand alone box and battery system to 240V circuts. WHY NOT? Well does not help that GZ yelled at me NOOOO DO NOT DO THAT !!!!! I question why not? Someone said it could be done. So I also suspect there is truth in both ways of thinking. I suspect the GZ 1400W original lithiums not the X as I know little about the newer X line is it doesn't work well with the outlay of a 240V set up even if the storage batteries which are deep cells can be used with a properly inverted/converted 240 lay out as demonstrated here and in Part 1 too. It would be helpful to find a reliable electrcian here in NW MT in rural area that's lacking quality journeymen. Those who are good are often over booked. But these videos are definitely helpful and let me know that it is possible to have a decent reliable and pretty SAFE battery back up for a 240 Well. Oh and I just learned that the sump pump is 120. But needs to be rewired on separate circut so the water softener does not run during power outages as that would require the WELL turning on at random times. Circles and circuts it has me running around & around for sure. Stay safe everyone.
I'm afraid the Yeti Goal Zero won't be able to run a 240 volt well pump. (You could buy a 120->240 transformer to use it to run small 240 volt appliances, but it doesn't have enough capacity for a 240 volt well pump.)
You sound like Edward Snowden. It’s a compliment.
Who to connate 6 Barry in to 48 vate
Jay, your videos have been helpful for me to figure out how I want to go about getting backup power to my well pump. I wanted to see if you thought this would work, based on your experience running your pump off an inverter:
I have a v8 van that I would like to use to power a ~4000-6000W inverter for very intermittent backup power use. I really am only interested in being able to run my well pump and it would only need to run minimally. The pump runs less than 2 mins to charge up my pressure tank and in an emergency situation running the pump only once or twice per day would be acceptable (pressure tank has 26 gal usable volume between 60/40 psi). The pump is 240 V, 1/2 hp and uses capacitor start so I hope the start current inrush is not too high. I measured 5.6 A current while it is running = 1400 W. I would prefer to be able to use an existing 12V battery that I already need (like in my van) instead of creating a stand alone battery for backup. But, I don't know if a single 12V battery with only 50 Ah capacity would work ok. If I run my pump for 3 mins, capacity used from battery would be 10Ah = 2000W * (3/60)hr / (12 V * 0.8 efficiency). This makes me think that it would be fine, and I would run the van while running the pump to get some charging from the alternator. During the time the pump is running, amperage draw from the 12V battery would be 140 A = 1400W / (12 V * 0.8 effeciency). Can I just make up 4/0 battery leads and be ok or is this kind of amperage draw too much for a single 12V battery, sustained over 3 mins?
If you had thoughts on whether this had a chance at working acceptably or not I would appreciate your input. Thanks!
Running the alternator will give you 40 amps into the battery, so it would only need to produce 100 amps for ~ 3 minutes. I'd mostly worry about the startup surge, as you will probably need 4x the watts & Amps for a second to initially start the pump. My LiIon batteries struggle with this....but, a starting battery IS optimized for "cold cranking amps" so you may well be able to draw 400 amps for a second out of a 12v starter battery. I went with a 24 volt system to give myself half the current draw, but it sounds like your pump is about half the size of my 1 hp one. It might work out just fine..but you are running close to the limits. You might consider investigating an upgraded heavy duty alternator to get 60 or 80 amps from the engine....anything you can do to limit voltage sag on that startup current draw will help. [I think finding a 12v inverter that can surge start a 1/2 hp pump will also be tricky....many inverters in that size range start at 24 or 48 volts....]
@@summetj Thanks, Jay. I am thinking I will try it. There are a few inverters that I have found in the 3600W - 5000W range that seem like they could work. A high output alternator should be available if I need it.
@@pattyliterati164 Just keep in mind that the startup surge is what you need to size the inverter for. I used a "low frequency" inverter (with a large transformer) that is better able to handle startup surges for my well pump, and it still struggled. If you use a "high frequency" inverter without a transformer, you will need to size it significantly larger than your continuous draw requirements.
@@summetj Jay, yes I am planning on a low frequency inverter. I may buy a Sensata. They are very expensive but they sound reliable- the Sensata N series are often used on service trucks and they claim to be able to start 2hp motors for the biggest 12V model. There is another idea in the back of my mind that I thought using a 12 VDC inverter would be beneficial for: using an EV as power source during power outages. I don't have an EV but am hoping to buy one in the next year or two. They all have a 12VDC output that is capable of supplying ~1500W it would seem (I have only checked leaf and bolt and found info saying ~1500W ok to draw from 12 VDC connection). You are doing this, except converting to to 24 VDC, right?
@@pattyliterati164 Yes, I have a 120v ac charger that will charge my 24v battery (it only draws around 500 watts). So with a 1,000 watt inverter I can re-charge the well pump battery from my Nissan Leaf (or any automobile with a 12v battery).
well I gat some information abt running the well pump u can use 2 battery but u need 6 super capacitor to connected to the battery and u will be ok
costco and sams has the GC2 for about 80
What a great series!! I have a 2 HP well pump (its deep). 240V, 20A breaker on each leg. That would seem to be 5000W max. Its rated at 10A continuous. 13.2 Amps S.F. rating. Its a capacitor start, not soft or super-capacitor. What size inverter do I need to handle the inrush? If yours is 1HP and 2400 watts, Mine at 2 HP and 5000 watts would seem to be right?
Yes, that sounds reasonable
Great work! excellent video, very informative.
I want to run a 1 HP well pump permanently on battery bank, about a year ago I came across 8x Fullriver DC400-6 > 6 Volt 415 Amp Hour AGM Batteries for $500 (New) and bought them, since then they were float charging in 24 volts configuration, the voltage never dropped below 25 volts so I decided to buy Sigineer Power 6000W 24V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger,24Vdc and 240Vac Input to 120V 240V AC Split Phase Output,18000W Surge in order to run not just the well pump but also my hybrid water heater and a mini split AC, the well pump barely comes on because it's equipped with 4 large pressure tanks, the water heater comes ON only during the day time, however I want to keep running the mini split the whole day. Now Do you think the batteries can handle these loads? I know the inverter with its 18000 watts surge can but I hate to trash these expensive batteries.
6v * 415 A = 2,490 watt = 2.4 kW. Because these are lead acid batteries, you won't want to go below 50% charged, so that gives 1.2 kW of usable power from each battery ( when new, if they actually meet their specifications). Since you have 8 of them, that would be 9.6 kWh of power available in your batteries. With inverter losses, say 9kWh you can use.
From an Amp/Load/current draw standpoint, I assume you have the 8 batteries in a 4S2P setup (giving 24 volts at 830 amp hours). Assuming you draw 200 amps, that is 4.8 kW continuous which I would not expect to be a problem for a 24v 830 amp hour capacity battery bank. (It would run for ~ 2 hours at this rate before reaching 50% state of charge).
Why not use two 12v 600-800 ah lead acid? Unless your limited due to your charge controller on hand, that would be the best approach.
600-800 ah lead acid batteries would take up a lot of space, weigh a lot, and cost a lot of money. I also wanted this battery to be light weight so I could use it in my boat when not using it for power backup.
Great videos. Did you consider skipping one of the series' of 12V batteries in your examples and instead applying that money to a small solar panel and charge controller? If your pump only uses about 200 watt hours in a day, and you can weight that toward daytime hours simply by not using much water at night, then you don't really need a very deep battery if you have a solar panel that can keep the batteries topped up during the day. And solar panels seem to have alot more life to them than batteries with less maintenance.
The main reason I didn't want to go with only two 12v AGM batteries to get a 24v system is that I am worried about drawing 125 amps out of a single 100AH (50AH usable) AGM battery. The 6v GC2 batteries are designed for high amp output, and are rated at 220 AH (110 usable), and I feel much more comfortable drawing 125 amps out of them.
But yes, topping the system up in the day via solar is very viable, and I may add something like that later. I'll be doing a video on building the battery, and selecting the inverter, and testing the system, and then I'll do a video about how I charge the battery where I'll explain how I have a 24 kWh electric vehicle battery bank sitting in my driveway, and how I plan on using that to top up the little system if the power outage goes for multiple days.
HELP ME OUT? I want to run my 1/2 hp 20 amp well pump from 2 x 12 volt marine batteries in parallel, what AC watt inverter do I need? (115 volts)
20 amps at 120 volts is 2,400 watt continuous draw, but unless it's s "soft start" pump, you'll probably need 3-5x that for the startup surge so I'd recommend an 8,000 watt inverter (possibly 10,000 watt if it's not a "low frequency" model with a large transformer). [A high quality 2,500 watt inverter may be rated to do a 8-10k watt start-up surge....but for cheap inverters treat their rating as the "surge rating".] The only way to know for sure however is to buy the inverter and try it.
Thank you , great information. if you don't mind me asking..how deep is your well ?
Not sure, it came with the house. My estimate is very shallow, as we live in Florida next to a Lake.
@@summetj Thank you Jay. What size panels are you running ? I'm in Nevada with an 80ft deep well and thing of switching to solar , so yup I'm picking your brain. Thanks
Jackman
@@jackman1305 I do not have solar panels (directly) tied into the well pump backup system. (I run it off of my 24 kWh battery pack in my S-10 pickup truck if there is a power outage). We do have solar panels (grid-tie) on our house, they are 290 watt panels 65x39 inches, but they do not help in a power outage as they are connected to a grid-tied inverter.
@@summetj Thank you Jay