Modeling rigs are requisite for many guitarists playing in church, wedding bands, and large-scale pop gigs. My gigging life is mostly playing jazz clubs in New York City and touring with Lizz Wright - an artist who loves to have energy and vibration on stage: live drums, Hammond organ, electric bass, electric guitar. We still use wedges, not in-ear monitors. It is difficult for me to get excited about playing music without an amplifier onstage. As good as the technology is these days, it comes down to FEEL for me. Like, if we collectively decided: “We are not using traditional guitars anymore. We are going to use MIDI controllers, with a library of fabulous tones.” That would be a marvel, embraced by many players - but I’d rather stay home. I want to feel the guitar resonating, I want to feel the amp moving air, and I want to feel the guitar and amp interacting. I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade here. This is just my perspective. Do what you love, and adapt to modern-day working reality and/or your own curiosity/passion. I recently saw Matteo Mancuso play with his trio. No amp onstage, and he sounded great! There are so many ways to embrace the guitar.
I am SO much in that camp. I would love to enjoying playing through a modeler sometimes, but playing through monitors just doesn’t excite me. What type of monitors do those people use that truly enjoy it? Or maybe they often don’t know the difference? I’m genuinely curious.
I'm in violent agreement with your assessment. I no longer play out but if I was, to put my sound strictly through the PA just doesn't cut it. "Something" is very much missing sound-wise. Now that's for electric guitars. Having said that, I could see me playing an acoustic guitar through a PA w/o using an acoustic guitar amp.... but we were talking about playing electrics, were we not? 😉
@@DV8-q6n He's talking about direct to FOH here, modeller in an FRFR or with a poweramp in a cab is different but it also kinda defeats the purpose unless you need a metric ton of different sounds. I play in a metal band, own and love an HX Stomp and use an HXFX on my live pedalboard, I'd rather not go silent stage either for so many reasons. And my HX Stomp in the loop of an amp or a poweramp sounds 95% as good but at that point I'd just rather take my 50w EVH which doesn't take a lot of space and weight in the van anyway.
I work with computers 40+ hours a week. I've been doing it for 45+ years. When I play guitar, that last thing I wish to interact with is another computer.
same for me. I also enjoy the simplicity of a tube amp. I don't want to fiddle with presets, software updates, and tons of options which I don't even need.
One of the coolest concerts I've ever been to was Kingfish, at the end of the show, he set his guitar down in front of his fender twin and let it scream for 15 min while he threw picks to the audience and exited stage. I was sitting in the 4th row and my head was spinning the whole way home... it was awesome
I appreciate the thoughts. Totally respect Rhett's POV, and many will agree. My theory is, if you can achieve the sound you're looking for, whatever the gear is, then that's the gear you should use. If you're missing that little *something*, then look at things like EQ. If that's not doing it for you, explore and explore, tubes or whatever. Having said that, no one needs to spend a fortune to get their own sound for recording or live. But it's WORK, and Rhett's definitely done some work, so respect
True story, after 10+ years of gigging with a modeler running stereo straight to the board, I recently had a bug up my ass to play a gig with my old tube amp and pedalboard. I played 1 gig that way and immediately went back to the modeler. Tones through the modeler are equally as good, on-stage set up is much easier, and of course loading/hauling the gear is much easier. I can’t see myself going back.
I turn on my Boss IR-200 and start playing (silent home playing through headphones). No tweaking, because I dont like wasting my time with it. I have it set just the way I like it and I leave it like that. It works for me 👍
I just recently got back into playing guitar, and the thing about endlessly mucking around with plugins and tone chasing is exactly why I ordered my first tube amp (Marshall DSL40CR). For the most part I simply want and need to plug into the amp, get a reliably decent tone out of it by turning a few knobs, and practice for thousands of hours before I get anywhere near *needing* some specially crafted tone out of my rig. And the best part is, I can still easily connect my computer stuff to the thing if I want to experiment with weird effects, record something, play with different IRs, etc. The only downside is that I'm already feeling a bit like one of the tube amp snobs with no playing skills to offset it, but that's gonna be everyone else's problem not mine!
As a full time top level session pro for 40 years on more than 3000 albums, over 100 gold and platinum with legends like Alice Cooper, Hollywood Vampires, Jeff Beck, Ricky Martin etc etc blah blah haha...I've gotten to work with the very best! I'm 56 years old and started to play 51 years ago...so obviously the large part of my career has been before profilers etc. My favorite guitarists are people like Eddie Van Halen, Mike Landau, Mark Knopfler....old school analog tube dudes :) I had the massive Bradshaw racks in the 80's...I used a Rockman on my very first album 40 years ago...I had the stack of 12-15 great tube amps when the Kemper was released and I got it the first month....so my point here is that I know all sides of the sounds. When I did my first album 12 years ago with my mentor Mutt Lange, It was right before the Kemper and my sounds were really good thanks to great amps...but during that album I bought the Kemper and after using it on a song I got an email saying "whatever you just did to your sound DON'T change it cause it's much better". When I co wrote, co produced and played on Alice Cooper's "Paranormal" album I used my Kemper during 11 months of work leading up to the actual recording with us all live in the big room at Oceanway in Nashville. The fantastic legend Bob Ezrin being head producer of course so he brought in a whole bunch of great tube amps and we spent a couple of hours setting them all up together with one of the best engineers in Nashville...most sounded really good but I wasn't feeling THAT sound...so I secretly connected my Kemper and told the engineer to get the sound going and after playing a few chords Bob yelled "THAT'S THE SOUND"...so we used Kemper then. I fully get the feel of a perfect amp through a superb cab in a glorious studio with the best microphones through a Neve etc...but even for pro players those moments are rare and unless you have a top class studio where you slowly can set up your magical analog gear and warm amps up for sessions and then take your time at home....well...it's hard to beat the 98% level of exact sound and feeling you get from today's digital or DI gear. I very often get asked about what gear I use on albums from other players and they are constantly stunned to hear that it was Kemper, Axe FX III, Tonex One, Ampere, UAFX Lion or Friedman IR-X etc.... We are already so close to not being able to hear or feel the difference that to end my little rant I just feel blessed to live in a time where it's so easy to get that magical level of sounds in my own studio at home :D Thanks for a great channel @rhettschull
I learned to play guitar on acoustic, my first “amp” was a line six pod with headphones. once me and my friends started jamming loud, and a buddy of mine started using small tube combos that he let me occasionally play, it was all over. nothing sounds or feels like a tube amp. we forget that our sensory arrays as humans are complex. All of the nuances, the sound pressure effect, the symbiotic relationshop between the amp and pickups just create a sonic environment that no digital recreation can match. for recording it’s a different story, but for enjoying the experience, or for playing live, idk why anyone would avoid using tube amps.
@@the_hippykiller22 makes sense, this is something I’m hoping to experiment with soon honestly. I’ve had my eye on the friedman preamps, and am curious how they might sound through the fx loop into the poweramp. I use a 4x12 so I’m expecting decent results. ultimately I want one for home recording.
i think simply put it's about feeling connected to your instrument. to me when the amp is part of the instrument. it's not some mumbojumbo. it's real. standing close to your amp while playing guitar is such a great feeling. feeling the punch. and i also love the directional part of it. not some vague thing filling a room much like how it feels playing through studio monitors at home. but this one box punching out the sound. it's a thing that does the thing located at a certain place in the room. like a real piano in a nice room will always feel special. it's a timeless visceral thing that anyone who played a real acoustic instrument at blast full in a nice room has experienced.
You are absolutely right. I have been playing live for over 20 years and now I do it like this. I play a tube amp (H&K) with a digital output for the sound engineer. I have my moving air and he has his perfect signal. I have tried fully digital several times, but it's not my thing. And I have also played as an opener for a big star who also stood in front of towers but the microphone behind him was a 60w combo - I know that. Great channel Rhett. Greetings from Germany.
Everything you pointed out Rhett to me is spot on. Just to mention, what i noticed lately is that i have been currently seeing a lot of the modelers being sold on the used market to go back to amps and pedals. People think that the grass is greener on the other side till they try it out and find out its not for them. I was one of them and im so glad i went back to simplicity.
I'll get flack for this, but nothing compares to the live feel of a tube amp behind you and the air they move, the nuances from picking, and no modeler I don't care what modeler you're using without an amp on stage will never ever caption that feel and thats a fact!!
He makes the point I agree with the most: how many sounds do you realistically need? If you’re a hobbyist, fine.. buy whatever you want. If you’re in a working cover band that needs a WIDE spectrum of tones , go for it. HOWEVER….for most people, what are they chasing? A fender clean, a vox clean and a Marshall plexi. Or, a metal band doing heavy rectifier or 5150 sounds. that doesn’t require even dozens of patches. I have a 3 channel tube amp and I create excuses to switch channels just to play w my sounds. I get it if you’re covering lots of different genre changes in one night. Or if you’re a Studio player or, more pertinent, a studio owner or engineer. But the VAST majority of players are just hobbyists , part timers, weekend warriors etc. for the record, my modeling setup is my Boss IR2 into the PA. and it sounds great. But 3k for a fractal board with thousands of patches? Idk….not my bag, baby…
Here's my take on the whole thing. I'm primarily a keyboard player. My sounds generally revolve around piano and organ sounds plus synth sounds. Now a piano and an organ weigh a ton each. Then you get one or a few decent synths in the rig and you're just killing your back. So I use a Korg Kronos which covers all the sounds magnificently. I play through what is basically a very small P.A. for my own monitors. Stereo of course. But since I also play guitar I use an old Zoom amp modeler. pug it into my mixer and I've got a guitar rig too. In my little basement studio I use the onboard amp simms in my DAW. Easy peazey! The less gear that has to be moved, the better. The audience can't tell at all. Nor do they care.
Been using modeling into FRFR’s and house for ten years straight now. Just recently went to a hybrid setup. Only using the amp head model in my HeadRush straight into the front of my tube amps set to the clean channel. When I want to go straight clean I just kick off the amp head model I’m using and the tube amp alone is doing all the sparkly stuff. For lead tones I just use a slightly higher gain amp head model. No more IR cabs. The feel has improved substantially for me. The cab models is where it felt like something was getting dampened in the signal that just took away a bit of the feel and dynamics. Still using all the effects in the HeadRush and really this is such a simple easy setup and I get all the benefit of a tube amp.
same, headrush into marshall dsl 40, 4 cable foot, loop style from the headrush, and the 6 button footswitch for the marshall. At a tap i can have just marshall and 4 preset levels from clean to ultra crunch, and i can add in any pedal i want. feels like the best of both worlds. oh and i can put real pedals in there too, but i havent felt the need too.
I live in an apartment and am just a home player but I still like an amp in the room. To me I found the perfect amp for my situation in the Roland blues cube hot. Gives me the feel of a tube amp even at lower volume and sounds good to me. I just picked up a katana go headphone amp and it’s night and day tone wise compared to my Roland amp. I knew a real tube amp would be overkill in my situation but I knew I still wanted an amp of some sort. So glad I found the blues cube and have been using it for over 3 years now. That amp and a few pedals is all I need. We have very similar musical tastes, I also have a soft spot for the Dave Matthews Band but never could get into bands like phish or the dead. My wife is a big dead head but I just don’t get it. Just not my thing I guess. Love your channel and appreciate all the hard work you put into it. Thanks
It's a good thing you came to your senses when you did. You have narrowly avoided becoming a victim of your own success, you know what you like/ need and now it's time to make music...your way.
I'm with Rhett. I bought a Boss GT-1000Core with the intention of using it just for effects, and for the first two years, didn't touch the modeling/simulation features, at all. Then one day, I sat down with it and spent some quality time with the Boss Tone Studio application, and developed a couple of different setups that sound fantastic, sound like "me", and I would be perfectly happy playing through those couple of programs for the rest of my life, because they do exactly what I need them to do. I was stunned at how easy it was to build what I wanted and make it sound how I wanted. And in fact, I've been car-free for over 3 years now, so transporting my Mesa/Boogie amps to a gig or rehearsal or session is no longer a possibility without hiring a car service. With the Core, I'm using only Boss' built-in AIRD amp and cab models. Each patch runs two independent amp models in parallel, through two independent cab simulations in parallel, that can be sent out in stereo or dual mono so they can be mixed to taste at the console. One set is using lower gain models with 2x12 cab models, the other set is using higher gain models and 4x12 cab models, and that's everything I need to make "my music", to get "my sound". I don't care about playing other people's sounds, at all. I'm so happy with it that I'm building a new live performance fly rig pedalboard around two GT-1000Cores, two Countryman Type 85S stereo direct boxes, a Digitech FreqOut, and four Boss FS-7 footpedals, with a Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner separate from the board. I'm looking at the Mono medium power supply for it. The whole board is about 15.25" x 11.5" x 3.5" deep and fits in an airline underseat "personal item"/flight tote, along with everything else I need. Instrument gig bag and flight tote will be all I will need for a long weekend fly gig or any local gig. Anything longer, and I can check a suitcase for extra clothing. FTR, two Cores at $600 USD each cost less than one Quad Cortex and together take up less space and use less power than one QC. And I get access to real Boss effects algorithms, which no other companies' units will give me. Still, I'm not selling my Mesa/Boogie amps, and will always have access to them, when I need them.
Also, because like Rhett, I use my modeling device the same way I would use my amps, it took me no longer to dial in my tone with the modeler than it does to dial in my tone with my tube amps, and if there is one thing that digital does better than analogue, it's consistency. The settings never change and never drift with temperature or age. About two days worth of tweaking, and I was 100% satisfied. I'd say it takes about that long to dial in a new pedalboard to my amps, so I call it about even.
Sounds like the issue everyone has that agrees with you is some sort of variant compulsive disorder or option paralysis. A modeler is no different than an amp. Pick the amp, turn the knobs, set and forget. I literally have 4 presets I’ve used for months now and beyond consign the transpose function I literally never tweak things
You're probably onto something with option paralysis, I know I do thanks to ADHD but I don't agree that a modeler is no different than and amp. They're fundamentally different in many ways.
Part of it is option paralysis but a big part if it is also that, for me anyway, I didn't buy an amp, I bought a profiler. If I just wanted to set it and forget it, I would have (or should have) just gotten an amp. It seems like a waste of the tool to never change it, which leads to changing stuff just to change stuff. Modelers just don't feel like they're supposed to be left alone, so people don't.
@@afurinperil A profiler / modeller gives you the option to use any amp you want in conjunction with any type of pedal I sorted the patches and changes I need for the band / set and go.
This idea of option paralysis with modelers makes no sense to me. People with amps tweak constantly, both their amps and their pedals. I use Bias FX 2 and the Neural DSP Plini. I have been using the same three or four presets for a few years now. Tweakers are gonna tweak. Tone chasing has always been a thing--modelers don't make it any worse. I've had the opportunity to play big, loud amps that push a lot of air, and frankly ... it doesn't do anything for me. Except it did blow out my hearing a bit. For me, the trade-offs with amps vs modelers makes zero sense. Amps are heavy, temperamental, and expensive. Modelers are inexpensive, sound great, and are extremely consistent. I never have good and bad days with modelers like I did with amps. I totally understand that some need that visceral, physical contact with the sound. It's just a matter of taste--I don't get why everyone wants to keep having this argument.
i love my sweet little 20 watt Marshall DSL20 head with my 2x12 cab. it is super transportable, sounds incredible and can definitely move enough air on stage to have that tickling feeling in my stomach when it's behind me. and yeah what can I say, I just switch it on with one knob and it does exactly what I want from it. no tweaking, no programming, and it just looks cool on stage. I'll never ever go without a tube amp.
I just bought a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and I'm in love with it! It doesn't sound like 40 different amps, it doesn't have 50000 effects, it uses all that memory to absolutely NAIL one classic amp, with reverb and tremolo just like the real thing. Huge head room, just beautiful lush Fender tone, AND I can lift it with one finger!
I live full time in an RV and have very little space, I bounce between a Boss GT1 and Neural DSP. Honestly, I have really been struggling with them through a kit Telecaster and Gretsch G2627T. In my recording over the years I've switched between modelers and some old Peaveys I used to own. I believe you're right about the complications with modelers, I just feel like I have too many options and it makes it very difficult in narrowing down what I like. I get caught up in drop down menus and digital dials and am unable to progress in my playing itself.
Sustain and dynamics are a hard balance in modeling. It can be done but a good tube amp gets there easier and is more satisfying. A great tube amp makes you play better. Do it long enough and you can model it better too.
Just because it sounds good doesnt mean its easy to fix or can even be fixed by you..IF it can even be fixed..the further tec goes digital,the more difficult it will be to find and fix issue..everything made today is made to not last and it not even cheaper
@@Jeremya74 Funny because I've gigged my Helix Floor unit at least once a week for several years and it's been far more easy to maintain than my old tube amps ever were. Personal preference is fine, but don't try to dress it up to be something it's not.
@@Jeremya74 a modeling or profiling amp will sound EXACTLY like its designed to forever and ever. a tube amp could sound different day to day and room to room.
Definitely in this camp. I bought a helix floor, then an Axe-FX III. Purchased IR packs. Then I discovered load boxes. Now I have a Waza Tae and an Ox Box. I also used to spend so much time tweaking tones and IRs to try to find what I was looking for. To the point where I wasn't actually playing the guitar half the time. Now I have 3 exceptional tube amps, and I can just plug in tweak a few knobs and get what I want. Setting levels is super easy, my pedalboard has never sounded better, and for whatever reason I no longer have a high noise floor when recording. I don't play live currently, but that will now be an easier option.
I put together a nice recording system with different amp modelling pedals, a few cab simulators, and plenty of effects. It's conveniently set up; I can flip one switch and start playing, through headphones or monitors. And it sounds awesome. I can play a cranked Marshall, a crispy Vox, or a crystal clean Fender, all through a huge variety of speakers and cabinets, with just a few changes. About 90% of the time, I flip on my 1 watt tube amp that's run through a little 1x8" cabinet with a fuzz pedal in front. I *love* playing it. It's just so much more satisfying. If I had to pick only one system to keep and play, I think it'd be the amp and speaker.
I've run a home recording studio for several years, I have a few tube amps, but I use neural amp modeler pretty much exclusively. I have my own amps modeled exactly the way I want, and it's a huge time and energy saver.
Lots of great points. I agree with all of them. I’ve said something to the same effect as you … if acoustic drums can be loud and live on stage - there can be a guitar amp on stage too. That should be so obvious to FOH audio engineers … but it’s crazy how overlooked that LOGIC is
I totally agree that when I use a modeler I pick a couple of amps and speakers and stick to them. I have a clean amp, a crunch amp and a drive amp model and they all run thru the same cab model. I sometimes change the cab for sounds with a lot of effects for voicing but not much. I find modelers a lot more interesting for dialing up effects/pedals and getting them to interact and being able to recreate the signal chain and settings to be where they shine, especially when recording and you want to punch in. As far as performing I am a firm believer in a band being "acoustic" and by that I mean that the volume that everybody is playing at works without mics, that the guitar, bass, drums, etc are all playing at the same level and thus create dynamics in their performance. If you are playing as loud as the drummer you are loud enough.
I primarily use digital amps when recording, but I use a tube amp live, which I feel like is the reverse of most people. Part of that is my tube amp is fairly basic, and I essentially only get a few sounds out of it between it and my pedalboard, whereas with software I often have easy access to a lot more amp sounds I don’t have access to irl due to money constraints. I frequently use a marshall JCM or JTM, and/or a Vox AC30 emulation on my music, neither of which would be sounds I could afford under normal circumstances. The freedom of creativity emulation offers, the variety of sounds that would otherwise be out of reach, makes them a great tool for the average musician on a constrained budget, recording at home.
I do a hybrid setup most of the time. Real amp through ir's. Live in my studio I've been really enjoying going through emulated cabs through monitors as well as my live 2X12 at low volume. The monitors fill in a lot of high end detail and I get low end push from the cab that monitors just can't do. The combination is incredible.
I am a lot like you. I prefer a tube amp when I play out. I own 18 tube amps, ranging from .75 watt up to 160 watts and everything in between. I also have a Headrush pedalboard and a Headrush looper board, with two FRFR 108's. I like doing stereo and wet/dry/wet rigs, for that wall of sound effect, made famous by Brian May and EVH... it just adds something special, that running to front of house, just can't duplicate. Depending on the set list, I generally use the Headrush strictly for the effects and the ease of setting up set lists, within the board itself. On occasion, I will use individual pedals on another board or sometimes, if I'm going "old school" music, I will break out the old rack units and the SRD rack units (Boston and Def Leppard). It's nice to have options. In the event that I have to go front of house, at least I have the Headrush and the two FRFR 108's to put on the stage (for a wet/dry rig), so that I still have something pushing air... and don't have to stand in front of the wedge.
A boomer revitalized guitar player, I began my resurrection with a modeling amp (Mustang GTX50) and after four years got a tube amp (George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe). The main difference, and I’ve compared them side by side in the same practice session, is the size of my grin. There is a difference. I call it “sparkle”.
I bought a POD XT Live years ago when I got married and moved into an apartment. It was a great tool and playing through phones was exactly what I needed at that time. But the overload of options was ABSOLUTELY paralyzing to me. If at any moment I wasn't fully satisfied with my tone (which was often), I'd switch to other models, other presets, tweak tweak tweak, and I'd spend so little time focusing on guitar. After several years I sold it and bought an AC-15, which I run through a Torpedo Captor and keep the cabinet modeler on the same setup for everything. And as a result I play a lot more guitar.
I couldn't agree more. I've had a Helix for years and I've recently come to realize that I spend 90% of my time tweaking my tone. There are so many options I just end up endlessly A / B testing rather than playing guitar. It creates an insidious feeling of dissatisfaction with the intrument and has honestly pushed me away from playing it. The experience with a good tube amp is the exact opposite. I plug in, it sounds good and I just play.
You know for all that the Helix offers I'm probably the most backward user of it. Instead of fiddling with a million presets or adjusting little settings I set up my system simple. Designed a preset for each style I may find myself playing in (I mostly hang out in the pop/singer songwriter/theater patch). And that is it. I treat it like I would a traditional amp and board set up. I don't care about the tiniest details in tone that only gear heads will notice. I want it to sound good. Be relabile and easy to use. And more important than any of that... Be consistent. I need it to do what it needs to do day in and day out and show to show so I can continue making a career in this. I'm not a gear player I'm a guitar player. And was hired to play guitar not to play dials and switches. If it sounds good to me then it sounds good to 95% of the audience. And that 5% that are not into it are probably musicians with their own preferences. I actually had a rule when I started this path. Ask my then girlfriend if she likes the sound of it or not. Because she's a non musician. If it was good enough for her it would more than likely be good for the majority and that is all I cared about. I've never understood the want to constantly tinker and change and just keep pushing buttons for some holy grayl that may or may not exist. Heck the only reason I even got a Helix was purely for transport sake since again it minimizes the parts in between me and the performance. Easier to transport cross state or cross country when on the road with singers and less upkeep
I agree with the premise that you can spend time on non-priority activities. Prepare a few sets of tones and stick with them is easiest. I also like things on stage moving air.
I’ll have to agree with you in reference to stage esthetics matter. For example, I most recently saw a three bill show at Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion which featured STP as the headline act. The opening act was Soul Asylum. SA came on stage raw bro! Good ole fashioned stacks of Marshall amps and a drum kit flat on the stage with no riser-old school. They freakin rocked! The two other bands on the bill came on with theatrical staging, a ton of video screens etc… a few amps and the whole focus was the video presentations. I much rather see a band moving air on stage with the good old pulsating bass pounding on your chest than a band playing through the house on modelers. Great video!!
Been (at least mostly) digital for almost a decade now. I got tired of having to wear friggin ear pro just to record. Had an HD500X with a DT50 2x12 (that actually sounded great but was DEAFENING...) and sold it all when I got a Two Notes Torpedo Live in January of 2017. Sold that when I went fully digital and got my Axe-FX II Sept 5th, 2017, which I STILL HAVE! Love it! To celebrate SEVEN YEARS with the thing, I ordered a brand new Axe-FX III Mark 2 Turbo that should be here in a few days. I am usually in my studio and it's the absolute best for that, but I have taken it out live a few times and even for that, being able to bring everything in in ONE TRIP? That's AMAZING!! Definitely gotta have something moving air on stage though...for sure. But for me? Not just digital, it's FAS for me. They were the first to really get modeling "right" and I still think they do it best. FAS FTW.
I arrived at a fully digital rig after getting my hearing tested, and finding out that I had significant hearing loss. The audiologist guessed that I was a guitarist before I told him. So now, I *always* use IEMs. I have a mixer on my board so can tap into a feed from a wedge, and even put up my own omni mic to hear the drummer if they are not miked. Once I had gone fully IEM, the idea of carrying a bulky amp and pushing air seemed pointless. I've got a couple of virtual rigs on a Helix that I never change, and use them like an amp. Once in a while I go "virtual shopping" and try out some new amps and effects on the Helix, just for fun mostly, but sometimes I find something that inspires me, and it hasn't cost me a penny more. I miss tube amps sometimes, but I'd miss my hearing a lot more if it got any worse
Well put Rhett and 100% agree particularly about aesthetics but I would also add even when recording if the visceral nature of a loud tube amp makes you play better capture that performance. But that can equally be said if you are into bands and the vibe of Axe Fx or Kemper. Whatever makes you play better and enjoy yourself.
The phrase "silent stage" is so depressing. Amp modeling, in-ear monitoring, performing to a click, performing with prerecorded tracks...all of these things are so dweeby they should be illegal. So much Rain Man energy goes into concerts these days you'd think it would be a golden era for live albums, but nope. Rock music currently has the spontaneity of a Swiss watch and the creative potency of a lawn chair or pair of sensible shoes.
When I first heard you say something like this I gotta be honest, I kind of bristled. Hearing you explain it here, it makes a lot more sense and I completely understand your perspective. One way I have approached the stage volume/monitoring thing is to take a split from between the amp and cab block and run that into the FX Loop Return of a small combo amp. FOH gets what it needs, I can monitor that sound through the wedge/IEMS as needed, but I can fallback to the amp on stage if I need to pull an ear out or the monitoring situation (like you described at CMA Fest) just kind of sucks.
I do completely agree that the visceral feeling of playing an amp in the room is still king. If I want to play guitar strictly for fun, I’ll do that. But more often than not, my guitar playing is a service I’m offering-to another artist, to a producer, or (when I play my own music) my audience, and I can offer them a more consistent, reliable, replicable sound with my Quad Cortex. I can tell you that, outside of a few fellow guitar nerds, nobody will notice or care if I don’t have a real amp on stage. I agree that in small-midsize clubs, or situations like you outlined where the monitoring is less than ideal, you do need something on stage making at least some noise.
I've tried both modellers and a full pedalboard with a tube combo and I've liked both. My problem is I love a lot of different effects and building a giant pedalboard was a bit more than I anticipated with the wiring and the layout running a power supply. I've tried getting just a straight , dry, good amp tone in a few different modellers and couldn't get out of it what I wanted. I got my combo out and straight away I had great, usable, edge-of -breakup tone without much fuss and even if I wanted a different crunch/lead tone it wouldn't take very long simply adjusting the EQ and gain. I've since decided to go with a hybrid approach and plug straight in to the amp and use a modeller for just the effects, maybe running a drive pedal before the amp and I'm loving the way everything sounds. Eventually I may start adding a couple unique, character delay or modulation pedals for a different color.
I love my Kemper Power Rack. You cannot overstate the impact of the cabinet, or speakers rather, on the sound we experience when playing guitar. Try experimenting with direct profiles into your various cabs and speakers. You can tell me you like your tube amp better all you like. You won’t pick it out in a blind test. Guaranteed.
see, the point here is, it's not about a blind test, not about "the same sound". It's about what you prefer. For you it's modelling, for others it's having a tube amp. that's the statement in this video.
@@terraincognitaband7273 if you don’t like it better in a blind test, then you’re listening with your eyes. That’s an objective statement. That was my point. Keep playing whatever you like of course. On that point I agree completely.
Totally agree! I ‘PLAY’ guitar whenever I’m using a tube amp, but I end up mostly ‘TWEAKING’ modellers. I’m working on an EVH Helix preset to give away free on UA-cam and then I’ve decided to sell my Line 6 Helix.
Rank amateur here: recently built a kit tele and starting on a strat - I can play, barely. I was advised that the NU-X MP3 was the best headphone amp/modeler for the buck. I love the thing - virtually limitless options and settings and it sounds GREAT. That being said, Dad played when I was young and I find that I miss the smell of his Bassman or Champ when it starts up, the warmth of sitting next to it on a cold day, turning an analog knob until it's in the exact right spot, it's the EXPERIENCE as much as the sound...
Bass player returning as a guitarist following a long layoff. Heard all about how incredible katanas are and thought it would be a great way to get into something different following my return to the hobby. Really enjoy the katana; its great. Still, the desire to get a proper Marshall was so tempting so i got a DSL40CR. Wow, same universe but worlds apart. The tubes make it organic and fill the room differently than the katana. They perform the same function but behave drastically different.
Rhett - I have a couple of decent little amps (1 tube, 1 SS), but like using Amplitube 5 + TONEX, and also the HX Stomp. My reasons are 1 - I don't gig, and I'm just a basement hobbyist, 2 - I could never afford the amount of gear that I would like, so the modelers give me access to all sorts of effects and amps that I otherwise could never experience.
Who ever thought, when practicing at home through headphones cos nobody wants to hear you, " I so want to get a band together so we can play gigs and I can still play through headphones!"?
What sold me on modelers is how cheap they make the process of aquiring (very many) great sounds. Got my HX Stomp for about 500$ second hand, and the guy i bought it from was kind enough to throw in some quality IRs. After a bit of tweaking and learning i am now, as a student, able to make my amateur, cover band playing ass sound damn near professional. It's also incredibly versatile, i can make my electric guitar sound like an acoustic without having to swap guitars or own acoustic guitars for that matter. Sure, a real Soldano, Matchless or whatever would sound better than the models of them, but i don't have to pay Soldano or Matchless money to sound good. My current rig, pedals and all accounted for, costs less than one of the amps that i model, and it is almost at a point where i can do most if not everything i might need to do, now and in the future which is a great feeling to have for someone that doesn't have that much money to spend on boutique gear.
I like the benefit of both. Modelers have come a long way but I liked the old line 6 beans. I like solid state amps like the old peavys, tubes are fantastic. Just enjoy the ride man🤘🏻
Fwiw, I don't disagree with anything Rhett said, yet, I find this topic very, very "tired". My FM9 + Quilter rig is significantly more practical for my needs and sounds awesome. Touring US & Europe? No voltage transformer needed. Want optimal tone from a tube amp at 90++ dB in a Parisian apartment ? ... yeah, not gonna happen. I guess I could spend $900 on a Freyette attenuator , but I'll pass.
There are all tube amps that are under 5w. My practice amp has an option for .1 watts. Full saturation at LOW volume. You could play that in an apartment no problem. I did for years. If you like digital stuff better that is cool. It’s all personal esthetics. That said, your argument against using tube doesn’t hold water.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural I would need another tube amp for gigging? Does your 5w tube amp have a voltage switch for Europe? How much clean head room does it have? Yeah, still not working for me.
@@musiccreation1198 you tour with a single amp? For what I paid for mine you could just buy one from the European market and give it away after. I’m not suggesting you actually do any of this. Like I said, if you like digital, go digital. If it’s the reasons you give here then there are nearly endless ways around them.
Why does a person playing an instrument that loud, get called too much noise, but a person playing their stereo is fine until whatever the cutoff time is? 70db of those terrible systems, which crank the sub woofer as loud as everything else, or louder, are much worse _noise._ I can play my 40watt tube amp, at a volume loud enough for me to practice, and I’m not hitting 90db. I might, here and there, but mostly, I’m no louder than the tv, on the other side of the wall, from me.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural I agree. I have a small solid state and I can use a 40watt DSL, at a volume that is no louder than the next apartment, or room over’s television. Many times, I’m at a lower volume, because they leave it cranked for commercials, that often sound like a 20db boost. 😄 I doubt it’s more than 5-10db, but it sure feels like when I forget to check that my boost pedal is set right, and just blew my bandmates’ heads off, clicking it on for the solo. 😆 I think my father listened to sporting events at 100db, in his last ten years of life. Sound is great, for the price of the tv’s, but when my dad had a four speaker setup, in the early 90’s, it was such a great sound. I have high school friends, who still ask about that system he had, because we would bring new albums to my house to listen to them properly, before everyone got cars, and their own systems. Even then, folks liked to come over just to listen to music or watch a movie. We’d walk around the neighborhood, getting stoned, then listen to the system. Sorry for the rambling. My dad died last year, and the topic made me think of him.
Totally agree, I have UAFX Dream, Ruby, and Helix and only ever use the Helix if the set absolutely requires fast changes with multiple effect changes happening simultaneously. The other issue is, I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think we play the same with no amp in the room. I know I definitely play very differently when I'm playing through an amp vs silent stage and using IEM's.
I have an HX Stomp XL that I've been using for a few years now - great for recording and for easily accessible tones for live work. Last week, I was recording a rock track and used the modeler but also made identical tracks (as best I could) with my Super Sonic head through my Captor X. I knew what I thought so I blind A/B'd the guitars in the mix for a friend who has good ears: we agreed that the tube amp sounded better, especially on the parts where I was playing softer and/or dialing back the volume knob. The modeler is still a useful tool, but I guess I'm keeping some gear!
Sometimes stages wouldn’t even give a choice. That is usually how the migration starts for many guitarists that do not have the funds or space to maintain many different type of gear.
I am going back to amps and pedals and loving it. I tried digital and while I love messing with computers, programs, and settings, I do think it gets in the way of playing.
After having multiple tube amps fail on Sunday mornings, I got an iridium as a back up. It’s a great option, but similar to what you say here I basically always keep it on the AC 30 setting where I like it and never use the other options. Also, I find with most modelers they just don’t feel quite the same and I always end up playing with more gain than I want to try to get it to sound right. When I come back to real amps, I’m always pleasantly surprised at how nice they feel and sound with less gain. I’m not sure someone in an audience could tell the difference, but the difference certainly makes me play differently.
To the point about looks/aesthetics on stage, I fully agree. I once watched a metal showcase and every band had modelers, (and most had tracks they had to sync to from a laptop). There was a stiffness to the whole thing, and while the musicians were fantastic, it just looked odd to me not to have amps behind them, even if it was just for looks.
I play mostly Jerry Garcia and dead related stuff. Jerry's tone is (to me) one of the hardest tones to achieve. Jerry inspired tone enthusiast spend 1000's of dollars and countless hours chasing it. His combo of modded twins with McIntosh power amps, combined with OBEL guitars it tough to nail. Today I am fully digital using the Tone Master Pro with IR loads and it's the closest I've ever been...
The reason why tube amp has retained its popularity among guitarists is because the effects produced by overdriven tubes are simply too complex for any analogue circuit to emulate. Many of them are dependent on input dynamics which simple clipping circuits like those used by distortion pedals and solid state amps can't hope to mimic. Digital modellers, however, is a different story. In theory, they can reproduce all the effects tubes may produce but the problem was to do it in real-time with a reasonable amount of computing power & level of complexity involved in software. For that reason, they had failed to completely replace tube amplifiers until recently. But things have changed recently with the advent of AI(i.e. neural network)-based modellers, like NAM. Their fidelity still many vary, depending on the quality of the sound samples used to train the model. But for the first time, it became feasible to emulate tube amps with good enough fidelity on a consumer-level gear. It means there's little reason left to stick with tube amps for most guitarists because a digital setup has other huge advantages over its tube counterparts. In order to reproduce the tone you hear in classic rock albums, for instance, your setup needs to satisfy several conditions which may not be practical in many cases. It's not sufficient to just to have a good tube amplifier, which could be a challenge in itself, if you don't know about, or can't afford boutique-level handwired replicas, since popular modern amp vendors typically sell cheaper, and more versatile products that don't sound as good as their flagship models in the 60s and 70s. And nobody uses tubes for high-end circuits like those used for medical or military devices nowadays, which means it's increasingly difficult to find good quality tubes. Yes, they still sell "Mullards" or "Telefunkens", but they're just cheaply manufactured tubes from the same company, rebranded to lure clueless customers. If you know what NOS tubes are, then good for you. But how long do you expect the stock would last? A decade? Or even shorter? And even if you somehow managed to get a high quality tube amplifier with a good set of tubes, you need to know how to maintain it. How many guitarists know how to bias their tube amps, for example? But the biggest problem with tube amps is not that they're difficult to find and maintain. Rather, it's the fact that they need to be played LOUD to get the most out of them. It's surprising how many guitarists who own tube amps don't understand this, and keep playing with a master volume (which has detrimental effect on tonal quality in itself) all the way down to 2-3. Fender Bassman, for example, has almost the exact same circuit with that of Marshall JTM, with only difference (other than the speakers) being the choice of output tubes. It means, output tubes play a significant role in determining the character of final tone and they only start to manifest when the tubes get overdriven. And there's absolutely no way to crank up a 100W (or even 50W) tube amp without having a garage/studio or having your neighbour call a cop on you. Actually, there's one way, which is using an attenuator. Not to mention how surprisingly few hobbyist guitarists understand they need one to get the best out of their beloved tube amps, it colours the tone the more you attenuate the original signal. Also, a part of the guitar tone is determined by the cabinet, the way it moves the air column. As such, a 4x12 cabinet doesn't sound the same when you play it with a cranked up amp and do it with a volume down to a bed room level. So, unless you own your own studio, an ideal setup would be running your attenuated (line level) signal through a digital cabinet simulator, preferably an IR-based one. But if you've come all the way down to here, why not go fully digital? There's no "magic" in you analogue pedals because they're just a bunch of simple clipping circuits that are trivial to perfectly emulate with a digital circuit. And with a neural network-based modellers like NAM, you can take a sample from a well maintained tube amp played with at an ideal volume, then emulate it with 99% fidelity. You can even experiment to create your own tone, like hooking a Bassman head into a JTM power section, which may not be feasible in real life. As such, there's a good reason to go digital nowadays, if you are not an expert in tube amps and have your studio. You may have tried digital modellers several years ago and got disappointed. But it could be because they didn't sound as good as those available now since techs, especially those related to AI have been moving at a blinding speed recently.
I've been strictly a Helix user for about 5 years. I have used the same 3 amp models in it for the entirety of those 5 years. Occasionally, I will start to mess around with new features or models or tweak the presets that I usually use just to see if I can get a better tone, but I almost always go back to my core sounds and I really do prefer them over other plugins or modelers that I borrow from friends. I almost always use a cabinet and a power amp when playing live still because I think stage sound is important, especially in small clubs. Maybe it's because I've gotten too comfortable with these tones, but it's what works for me. Tube amps feel more like a luxury for most gigging musicians at this point.
Totally appreciate and agree with your decisions - but sometimes, especially when playing smaller clubs - tube amps aren’t possible. I’ll ALWAYS use a tube amp (Mesa Lonestar 2x12) if possible - but sometimes a gig’s circumstances require a silent stage. And when that is necessary, I’m thankful for L6. Just sayin’. Great content as always. Cheers from Texas 🤘
I like hybrid , modeler to the house , amp for me . Mostly cause I like the amp on stage visually , but also I don’t like silent stage . Even if I can’t always hear the stage with ears in or feel the air. I do however most of the time end up having to play without one on big gigs, get stationed nowhere near it on stage, or have to move far away from it during the performance to solo or vibe/dance with the artist
I get hate from the lovers of the great modeling systems out there, but the issue of programming and configuration is and will always be a major issue. I deal with this in my own reduced playing schedule and I have learned two important things. First, the front-of-house engineers will tell you the truth. I always get compliments on my tones, and I'm only using a 100W BOSS Katana. I sold my Boogies and Marshalls out of necessity. (My back). Second, I can not rely on programming via the amp panel. It's always the case that you get the most out of setting tones and configuration via the computer interface. I'm old school, but I know when I need to embrace the modern future. I love moving air with a 100W Marshall with at least one 4x12 cab, but I'll do that if SIR provides the backline. Thanks Rhett. This is a great discussion. My views don't count much anymore, but I'm still working and using the tools that we use.
Personally I like both - there's definitely advantages and disadvantages to each like you pointed out. My rule of thumb is usually if the set is longer than 45 minutes, I'll bring a real amp, if it's less than that I'll bring a modeler. I can't be bothered to drag out a heavy ass AC30 (or Hartke 4x10 if I'm playing bass) for a 30 minute set these days, lol.
I've worked as a sound engineer for 40 years and I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between one guitarist and another. Some guitarists like low volume on stage just enough to feel the amp, then others just turn it up to 11 and totally destroys the sound engineer especially in smaller rooms. A 4x12 is highly directional and will easely destroy the engineers ears if turned up to loud. And in smaller rooms(if it's a big outdoor stage they can turn it up as loud as they want it to be) with a lower stage height turning up your volume too loud will also destroy the ears of the crowd and ontop of that totally destroy the bands sound. Unless your band only wants the guitar to be heard. Not all guitarists thinks about this unfortunatly. Some guitarists/bands really wants to sound good and balance their sound on stage which will make the band sound soo much better(Omar and the Howlers is an excellent example). In conclusion I'm all for guitarists using real amps but some needs to balance their sound/volume on stage.
I ended up with the MixWave Benson Suite and the MixWave Ashdown ABM EVO IV plug-ins, which are pretty much what I use when recording at home. For current bass gigs I have a Helix LT that usually goes direct into the board. We use wedges, so it's not all that quiet. If I need to provide an amp. I have a Darkglass that I run into a pair of PJB Compact cabs. The last time I had the compact cabs out, somebody complained about the noise, and we got shut down. Still got paid for the gig... I think it depends on the application and venue. I appreciate the thoughts and the insights. Good video. Thanks!
To the boogie thing, it was once explained to me that they put that amount of controls on the thing that maybe somebody might be able to find a good guitar sound in there somewhere, but really they didn't know what a good guitar sound was in the first place. Food for thought I guess.
I'm 95% digital (Kemper) and just got a few analog pedals left. I play in my appartment/studio only so I can barely crank a tube amp. I also love playing with headphones at night. I switch between a 1x12 cab with V30 and my Kali Audio monitors.
If you can afford to do both, by all means go for it. It all depends on the gig. For me, it's just easier to go digital. I have a 5150 iii 50 watt that never gets played but it's there if I need it. I have an HX Stomp that I use with my power stage if I'm playing somewhere and I have only a few minutes to set up. For most gigs I'm using either a Kemper or Axe Fx with a Marshall 4X10 cab. As far as the user interface goes, like you said you need to use the software ahead of time and dial in your sounds that you need depending on the genre.
Each to their own. I had had Boss Gt5 ; Gt 8 (I still have it for acoustic gigs) and a Boss got 1000 core which is on my board . I always use the 4 cable method going in to my amps. In my studio, for practice and fun, it’s easy just to turn on the PC , my board with the core , RC500 looper, going in to my Yamaha HS8 monitors. And for recording the core is awesome. But when I play in my two groups, I use my Fender Hot Rod and Marshall AFD 100 with an amazing (but expensive) switcher which lets me use them in stereo, or single., switching between the two from fender clean rhythm to Slash (ok haters) soaring leads on the Marshall. I have a fulltone OCD on 18volt going in to the fender. That is all. Nothing in the Bosss GT comes even close. The GT core is 4 cabled to the Marshall AFD for effects only (which are really, really good) My Marshall has no reverb. My amp doesn’t need an overdrive. So I use just two patches using my AFDs natural tone. Reverb, delay, chorus, fuzz , flanger, way, when necessary. Boss foot pedal controls volume , tuner and effects when selected (wha etc.) What I find really useful is the clean EQ volume boost for solo which is last in the chain. So my point is You don’t have to choose Digital or Valve. Combine or use them separately for the task in hand. I am very lucky to have been able to afford my amps. I wouldn’t be able to buy them now. I would hate to play live without them. But yes. Digital these days is definitely gigable. But to my ears there is nothing like a good tube amp.
Been all digital bascially all my life, I have owned some solid state amps, but have also owned Line 6 gear (Spider 2 lol, POD XT, POD HD) Now I use a laptop live and play Neural DSP Archetype Gojira, we play all in ears, I program all my patch changes, and I love it.
I have to agree with many of the points. I have used only Kemper for over ten years and I too have gone through a ton of profiles, but still only use one or two favourite ones. Every time I get to sit down with nice tube amp I can explore it and find sound that inspire me to play different stuff and that is so great. Kemper does not work like that, but it is just so damn convenient. Living in a flat with family and having time to record something late at night and so on... There is no chance I could use tube amp in 98% of the time.
I use a 50w Boss Katana Mk I as a clean platform and run all my pedals up front. I've been using it on bar gigs regularly for a few years now and I always get compliments on it.
I'm similar but not so extreme. I generally stick with same profile for a month or so, then find a new favorite. And really a small subset of favorites. And in the end any tweaking ends up with the same sound my ear likes, regardless of modeler.
I love my tube amps, Kemper rack mount, and my 200 watt Line 6 HD w/4x12 cab, and a few solid state amps. You can get any sound you want. However, I love my 64 Plexi Marshall most of all. It moves air and sounds fantastic, but very loud (most Plexi's need to be on 11) :-;!!!
Hey Rhett, I'm in violent agreement. As I commented below, I just cannot imagine playing my electrics through modeling SW into the PA. You're then relying on the monitors to be high enough fidelity to give your sound back to you. In ears? Maybe for really soft-sounding/low volume situations like in a one-man/woman band in a small restaurant. If the volume is low enough you likely won't need monitors at all for your instruments nor your vocals! For real rock/blues gigs, I gotta have me an amp! Peace, Love, and Bobby Sherman!! 😁😁
As a broke college student who can’t afford nice tube amps, I use a ToneX One on my board to emulate the sounds I’m going for, but I split my signal before it reached the ToneX so that if I can afford a good tube amp, I can go down that route as well
For recording, modelers and plugins 100%. For gigging in a rock-ish band, tube amps. Maybe a hybrid setup with a load box for live would make it nice for everybody
I agree for the most part, the thing I’ve found with the digital stuff (which I use for most live gigs) is that you’re at the mercy of the front of house guy and some potentially weird EQing.
I don’t have anything inherently against digital gear. I love the concept of a portable rig in a box and the convenience it promises, but it rarely delivers. One issue is that while digital modelers can sound close, they don’t align with my mental model of how real amps behave. It’s frustrating to adjust settings on a touchscreen when I’d rather just turn a few knobs. Modelers are great for exploring different sounds, but once you find what fits your style, it's better to stick with the real amps that deliver the best versions of those tones. At the end of the day, gear is just a tool, and limitations can actually foster creativity. Knowing your equipment and working with the limitations of a couple of amps can help define your sound. After trying out numerous modelers, I finally settled on a Friedman Small Box, and I couldn’t be happier.
I am just a 'weekend warrior' so my preferences are based on that. I am not a professional and am never going to make a living playing my guitar. From my perspective I play mostly classic rock. I really just need a basic clean, crunch and lead sound and I do the rest with the volume and tone controls on my guitar and a few basic pedals. I use a modeler for practice and have done the same thing. I setup a few presets that I use to get my Marshall tone and stick with it. I have spent hours playing around with my presets only to fall back on my 3 main presets. I have a tone in my head that I want to achieve and tend to stick with it. Playing in a venue I prefer to have my Marshall DSL40C and my pedal board and I can be setup and ready to play in minutes.
So I’ll give all the usual disclaimers like over the last 40+ years, I’ve owned a gazillion tube amps, played a bazillion gigs, record a lot etc. All true. In my experience, tube amps sometimes sound great. Lots sound like crap. They’re all heavy (ok not my ac4) and picky. I’ve had modeling amps since the second gen line 6. I can’t even remember how long ago they came out. I’ve loved them all for what they let me do as a performer. I like tube amps. I don’t take them out anymore. They’re heavier than I want to carry and finicky. I can do things with an hx stomp and catalyst that would be impractical if not impossible with an analog rig. I program it and then play it. I limit my choices so I don’t have option overload. I use the tech to do musical things. For me it’s about matching the right tool to the right job. Quieter stages are a thing for some players. Tubes are not necessarily better in any absolute sense. Modelers aren’t the holy grail either. There’s a place for both.
Most modeling pedals have multi outs. You should have emphasized that you can provide a DI out to front of sound, whilst also pushing sound into an amp, so you can suffice your own needs and front of house.
Modeling rigs are requisite for many guitarists playing in church, wedding bands, and large-scale pop gigs. My gigging life is mostly playing jazz clubs in New York City and touring with Lizz Wright - an artist who loves to have energy and vibration on stage: live drums, Hammond organ, electric bass, electric guitar. We still use wedges, not in-ear monitors.
It is difficult for me to get excited about playing music without an amplifier onstage. As good as the technology is these days, it comes down to FEEL for me. Like, if we collectively decided: “We are not using traditional guitars anymore. We are going to use MIDI controllers, with a library of fabulous tones.” That would be a marvel, embraced by many players - but I’d rather stay home. I want to feel the guitar resonating, I want to feel the amp moving air, and I want to feel the guitar and amp interacting.
I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade here. This is just my perspective. Do what you love, and adapt to modern-day working reality and/or your own curiosity/passion. I recently saw Matteo Mancuso play with his trio. No amp onstage, and he sounded great!
There are so many ways to embrace the guitar.
great take Adam!
I am SO much in that camp. I would love to enjoying playing through a modeler sometimes, but playing through monitors just doesn’t excite me. What type of monitors do those people use that truly enjoy it? Or maybe they often don’t know the difference? I’m genuinely curious.
I'm in violent agreement with your assessment. I no longer play out but if I was, to put my sound strictly through the PA just doesn't cut it. "Something" is very much missing sound-wise. Now that's for electric guitars. Having said that, I could see me playing an acoustic guitar through a PA w/o using an acoustic guitar amp.... but we were talking about playing electrics, were we not? 😉
BTW, I checked out Lizz Wright on YT. She's great! You're lucky to be able to play with such a talented lady!! I envy you, bro! Cheers!!
@@DV8-q6n He's talking about direct to FOH here, modeller in an FRFR or with a poweramp in a cab is different but it also kinda defeats the purpose unless you need a metric ton of different sounds. I play in a metal band, own and love an HX Stomp and use an HXFX on my live pedalboard, I'd rather not go silent stage either for so many reasons. And my HX Stomp in the loop of an amp or a poweramp sounds 95% as good but at that point I'd just rather take my 50w EVH which doesn't take a lot of space and weight in the van anyway.
I work with computers 40+ hours a week. I've been doing it for 45+ years. When I play guitar, that last thing I wish to interact with is another computer.
I don't want to use a computer I can't reprogram myself.
Same. I think people probably overestimate their ability to tell differences in gear, but I just want an analog experience sometimes.
on point. let me have this bit of analog gear that's left
same for me. I also enjoy the simplicity of a tube amp. I don't want to fiddle with presets, software updates, and tons of options which I don't even need.
One of the coolest concerts I've ever been to was Kingfish, at the end of the show, he set his guitar down in front of his fender twin and let it scream for 15 min while he threw picks to the audience and exited stage. I was sitting in the 4th row and my head was spinning the whole way home... it was awesome
I appreciate the thoughts. Totally respect Rhett's POV, and many will agree. My theory is, if you can achieve the sound you're looking for, whatever the gear is, then that's the gear you should use. If you're missing that little *something*, then look at things like EQ. If that's not doing it for you, explore and explore, tubes or whatever. Having said that, no one needs to spend a fortune to get their own sound for recording or live. But it's WORK, and Rhett's definitely done some work, so respect
True story, after 10+ years of gigging with a modeler running stereo straight to the board, I recently had a bug up my ass to play a gig with my old tube amp and pedalboard.
I played 1 gig that way and immediately went back to the modeler. Tones through the modeler are equally as good, on-stage set up is much easier, and of course loading/hauling the gear is much easier. I can’t see myself going back.
I turn on my Boss IR-200 and start playing (silent home playing through headphones). No tweaking, because I dont like wasting my time with it. I have it set just the way I like it and I leave it like that. It works for me 👍
I just recently got back into playing guitar, and the thing about endlessly mucking around with plugins and tone chasing is exactly why I ordered my first tube amp (Marshall DSL40CR). For the most part I simply want and need to plug into the amp, get a reliably decent tone out of it by turning a few knobs, and practice for thousands of hours before I get anywhere near *needing* some specially crafted tone out of my rig. And the best part is, I can still easily connect my computer stuff to the thing if I want to experiment with weird effects, record something, play with different IRs, etc. The only downside is that I'm already feeling a bit like one of the tube amp snobs with no playing skills to offset it, but that's gonna be everyone else's problem not mine!
As a full time top level session pro for 40 years on more than 3000 albums, over 100 gold and platinum with legends like Alice Cooper, Hollywood Vampires, Jeff Beck, Ricky Martin etc etc blah blah haha...I've gotten to work with the very best!
I'm 56 years old and started to play 51 years ago...so obviously the large part of my career has been before profilers etc.
My favorite guitarists are people like Eddie Van Halen, Mike Landau, Mark Knopfler....old school analog tube dudes :)
I had the massive Bradshaw racks in the 80's...I used a Rockman on my very first album 40 years ago...I had the stack of 12-15 great tube amps when the Kemper was released and I got it the first month....so my point here is that I know all sides of the sounds.
When I did my first album 12 years ago with my mentor Mutt Lange, It was right before the Kemper and my sounds were really good thanks to great amps...but during that album I bought the Kemper and after using it on a song I got an email saying "whatever you just did to your sound DON'T change it cause it's much better".
When I co wrote, co produced and played on Alice Cooper's "Paranormal" album I used my Kemper during 11 months of work leading up to the actual recording with us all live in the big room at Oceanway in Nashville.
The fantastic legend Bob Ezrin being head producer of course so he brought in a whole bunch of great tube amps and we spent a couple of hours setting them all up together with one of the best engineers in Nashville...most sounded really good but I wasn't feeling THAT sound...so I secretly connected my Kemper and told the engineer to get the sound going and after playing a few chords Bob yelled "THAT'S THE SOUND"...so we used Kemper then.
I fully get the feel of a perfect amp through a superb cab in a glorious studio with the best microphones through a Neve etc...but even for pro players those moments are rare and unless you have a top class studio where you slowly can set up your magical analog gear and warm amps up for sessions and then take your time at home....well...it's hard to beat the 98% level of exact sound and feeling you get from today's digital or DI gear.
I very often get asked about what gear I use on albums from other players and they are constantly stunned to hear that it was Kemper, Axe FX III, Tonex One, Ampere, UAFX Lion or Friedman IR-X etc....
We are already so close to not being able to hear or feel the difference that to end my little rant I just feel blessed to live in a time where it's so easy to get that magical level of sounds in my own studio at home :D
Thanks for a great channel @rhettschull
I love stories like this, from guys who really know what they are talking about. Thank you sir!
I learned to play guitar on acoustic, my first “amp” was a line six pod with headphones. once me and my friends started jamming loud, and a buddy of mine started using small tube combos that he let me occasionally play, it was all over. nothing sounds or feels like a tube amp. we forget that our sensory arrays as humans are complex. All of the nuances, the sound pressure effect, the symbiotic relationshop between the amp and pickups just create a sonic environment that no digital recreation can match. for recording it’s a different story, but for enjoying the experience, or for playing live, idk why anyone would avoid using tube amps.
Amen!
A modeller through a poweramp in a cab gets incredibly close but you lose most of the advantages
@@the_hippykiller22 makes sense, this is something I’m hoping to experiment with soon honestly. I’ve had my eye on the friedman preamps, and am curious how they might sound through the fx loop into the poweramp. I use a 4x12 so I’m expecting decent results. ultimately I want one for home recording.
i think simply put it's about feeling connected to your instrument. to me when the amp is part of the instrument. it's not some mumbojumbo. it's real. standing close to your amp while playing guitar is such a great feeling. feeling the punch. and i also love the directional part of it. not some vague thing filling a room much like how it feels playing through studio monitors at home. but this one box punching out the sound. it's a thing that does the thing located at a certain place in the room. like a real piano in a nice room will always feel special. it's a timeless visceral thing that anyone who played a real acoustic instrument at blast full in a nice room has experienced.
then aim an FRFR at you on stage.
You are absolutely right. I have been playing live for over 20 years and now I do it like this. I play a tube amp (H&K) with a digital output for the sound engineer. I have my moving air and he has his perfect signal. I have tried fully digital several times, but it's not my thing. And I have also played as an opener for a big star who also stood in front of towers but the microphone behind him was a 60w combo - I know that. Great channel Rhett. Greetings from Germany.
Everything you pointed out Rhett to me is spot on. Just to mention, what i noticed lately is that i have been currently seeing a lot of the modelers being sold on the used market to go back to amps and pedals. People think that the grass is greener on the other side till they try it out and find out its not for them. I was one of them and im so glad i went back to simplicity.
Agreed. A tube amp, a strat and a handful of stomp boxes is all I will ever need or want.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural exactly and those wll still be working 20 years down the road where as the computer based modelers won't be.
I'll get flack for this, but nothing compares to the live feel of a tube amp behind you and the air they move, the nuances from picking, and no modeler I don't care what modeler you're using without an amp on stage will never ever caption that feel and thats a fact!!
Totally. My ears know the difference.
Saw The Black Crowes in Melbourne and seeing the amp line up on Rich's side of the stage was awesome. Seeing the inside of the Lesley spinning.....
He makes the point I agree with the most: how many sounds do you realistically need? If you’re a hobbyist, fine.. buy whatever you want. If you’re in a working cover band that needs a WIDE spectrum of tones , go for it. HOWEVER….for most people, what are they chasing? A fender clean, a vox clean and a Marshall plexi. Or, a metal band doing heavy rectifier or 5150 sounds. that doesn’t require even dozens of patches. I have a 3 channel tube amp and I create excuses to switch channels just to play w my sounds. I get it if you’re covering lots of different genre changes in one night. Or if you’re a Studio player or, more pertinent, a studio owner or engineer. But the VAST majority of players are just hobbyists , part timers, weekend warriors etc. for the record, my modeling setup is my Boss IR2 into the PA. and it sounds great. But 3k for a fractal board with thousands of patches? Idk….not my bag, baby…
Here's my take on the whole thing. I'm primarily a keyboard player. My sounds generally revolve around piano and organ sounds plus synth sounds. Now a piano and an organ weigh a ton each. Then you get one or a few decent synths in the rig and you're just killing your back. So I use a Korg Kronos which covers all the sounds magnificently. I play through what is basically a very small P.A. for my own monitors. Stereo of course. But since I also play guitar I use an old Zoom amp modeler. pug it into my mixer and I've got a guitar rig too. In my little basement studio I use the onboard amp simms in my DAW. Easy peazey! The less gear that has to be moved, the better. The audience can't tell at all. Nor do they care.
Been using modeling into FRFR’s and house for ten years straight now.
Just recently went to a hybrid setup.
Only using the amp head model in my HeadRush straight into the front of my tube amps set to the clean channel.
When I want to go straight clean I just kick off the amp head model I’m using and the tube amp alone is doing all the sparkly stuff.
For lead tones I just use a slightly higher gain amp head model.
No more IR cabs.
The feel has improved substantially for me.
The cab models is where it felt like something was getting dampened in the signal that just took away a bit of the feel and dynamics.
Still using all the effects in the HeadRush and really this is such a simple easy setup and I get all the benefit of a tube amp.
same, headrush into marshall dsl 40, 4 cable foot, loop style from the headrush, and the 6 button footswitch for the marshall. At a tap i can have just marshall and 4 preset levels from clean to ultra crunch, and i can add in any pedal i want. feels like the best of both worlds. oh and i can put real pedals in there too, but i havent felt the need too.
I live in an apartment and am just a home player but I still like an amp in the room. To me I found the perfect amp for my situation in the Roland blues cube hot. Gives me the feel of a tube amp even at lower volume and sounds good to me. I just picked up a katana go headphone amp and it’s night and day tone wise compared to my Roland amp. I knew a real tube amp would be overkill in my situation but I knew I still wanted an amp of some sort. So glad I found the blues cube and have been using it for over 3 years now. That amp and a few pedals is all I need.
We have very similar musical tastes, I also have a soft spot for the Dave Matthews Band but never could get into bands like phish or the dead. My wife is a big dead head but I just don’t get it. Just not my thing I guess.
Love your channel and appreciate all the hard work you put into it.
Thanks
It's a good thing you came to your senses when you did. You have narrowly avoided becoming a victim of your own success, you know what you like/ need and now it's time to make music...your way.
This was a fantastic stream Rhett!
I'm with Rhett. I bought a Boss GT-1000Core with the intention of using it just for effects, and for the first two years, didn't touch the modeling/simulation features, at all. Then one day, I sat down with it and spent some quality time with the Boss Tone Studio application, and developed a couple of different setups that sound fantastic, sound like "me", and I would be perfectly happy playing through those couple of programs for the rest of my life, because they do exactly what I need them to do. I was stunned at how easy it was to build what I wanted and make it sound how I wanted. And in fact, I've been car-free for over 3 years now, so transporting my Mesa/Boogie amps to a gig or rehearsal or session is no longer a possibility without hiring a car service.
With the Core, I'm using only Boss' built-in AIRD amp and cab models. Each patch runs two independent amp models in parallel, through two independent cab simulations in parallel, that can be sent out in stereo or dual mono so they can be mixed to taste at the console. One set is using lower gain models with 2x12 cab models, the other set is using higher gain models and 4x12 cab models, and that's everything I need to make "my music", to get "my sound". I don't care about playing other people's sounds, at all.
I'm so happy with it that I'm building a new live performance fly rig pedalboard around two GT-1000Cores, two Countryman Type 85S stereo direct boxes, a Digitech FreqOut, and four Boss FS-7 footpedals, with a Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner separate from the board. I'm looking at the Mono medium power supply for it. The whole board is about 15.25" x 11.5" x 3.5" deep and fits in an airline underseat "personal item"/flight tote, along with everything else I need. Instrument gig bag and flight tote will be all I will need for a long weekend fly gig or any local gig. Anything longer, and I can check a suitcase for extra clothing.
FTR, two Cores at $600 USD each cost less than one Quad Cortex and together take up less space and use less power than one QC. And I get access to real Boss effects algorithms, which no other companies' units will give me. Still, I'm not selling my Mesa/Boogie amps, and will always have access to them, when I need them.
Also, because like Rhett, I use my modeling device the same way I would use my amps, it took me no longer to dial in my tone with the modeler than it does to dial in my tone with my tube amps, and if there is one thing that digital does better than analogue, it's consistency. The settings never change and never drift with temperature or age. About two days worth of tweaking, and I was 100% satisfied. I'd say it takes about that long to dial in a new pedalboard to my amps, so I call it about even.
Sounds like the issue everyone has that agrees with you is some sort of variant compulsive disorder or option paralysis. A modeler is no different than an amp. Pick the amp, turn the knobs, set and forget. I literally have 4 presets I’ve used for months now and beyond consign the transpose function I literally never tweak things
You're probably onto something with option paralysis, I know I do thanks to ADHD but I don't agree that a modeler is no different than and amp. They're fundamentally different in many ways.
Part of it is option paralysis but a big part if it is also that, for me anyway, I didn't buy an amp, I bought a profiler. If I just wanted to set it and forget it, I would have (or should have) just gotten an amp. It seems like a waste of the tool to never change it, which leads to changing stuff just to change stuff. Modelers just don't feel like they're supposed to be left alone, so people don't.
@@afurinperil A profiler / modeller gives you the option to use any amp you want in conjunction with any type of pedal I sorted the patches and changes I need for the band / set and go.
This idea of option paralysis with modelers makes no sense to me. People with amps tweak constantly, both their amps and their pedals. I use Bias FX 2 and the Neural DSP Plini. I have been using the same three or four presets for a few years now. Tweakers are gonna tweak. Tone chasing has always been a thing--modelers don't make it any worse.
I've had the opportunity to play big, loud amps that push a lot of air, and frankly ... it doesn't do anything for me. Except it did blow out my hearing a bit. For me, the trade-offs with amps vs modelers makes zero sense. Amps are heavy, temperamental, and expensive. Modelers are inexpensive, sound great, and are extremely consistent. I never have good and bad days with modelers like I did with amps. I totally understand that some need that visceral, physical contact with the sound. It's just a matter of taste--I don't get why everyone wants to keep having this argument.
i love my sweet little 20 watt Marshall DSL20 head with my 2x12 cab. it is super transportable, sounds incredible and can definitely move enough air on stage to have that tickling feeling in my stomach when it's behind me. and yeah what can I say, I just switch it on with one knob and it does exactly what I want from it. no tweaking, no programming, and it just looks cool on stage. I'll never ever go without a tube amp.
I just bought a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and I'm in love with it! It doesn't sound like 40 different amps, it doesn't have 50000 effects, it uses all that memory to absolutely NAIL one classic amp, with reverb and tremolo just like the real thing. Huge head room, just beautiful lush Fender tone, AND I can lift it with one finger!
I live full time in an RV and have very little space, I bounce between a Boss GT1 and Neural DSP. Honestly, I have really been struggling with them through a kit Telecaster and Gretsch G2627T. In my recording over the years I've switched between modelers and some old Peaveys I used to own. I believe you're right about the complications with modelers, I just feel like I have too many options and it makes it very difficult in narrowing down what I like. I get caught up in drop down menus and digital dials and am unable to progress in my playing itself.
Thanks so much saying all this Rhett. It's everything I've been feeling/experiencing for a long time...
Sustain and dynamics are a hard balance in modeling. It can be done but a good tube amp gets there easier and is more satisfying. A great tube amp makes you play better. Do it long enough and you can model it better too.
Only the Sith deal in absolutes! If it sounds good, it is good.
Just because it sounds good doesnt mean its easy to fix or can even be fixed by you..IF it can even be fixed..the further tec goes digital,the more difficult it will be to find and fix issue..everything made today is made to not last and it not even cheaper
Isn't that also an absolute?
@@Jeremya74 Funny because I've gigged my Helix Floor unit at least once a week for several years and it's been far more easy to maintain than my old tube amps ever were.
Personal preference is fine, but don't try to dress it up to be something it's not.
Why do I get the feeling the "Why I Went Fully Digital" vid is coming?
@@Jeremya74 a modeling or profiling amp will sound EXACTLY like its designed to forever and ever. a tube amp could sound different day to day and room to room.
Definitely in this camp. I bought a helix floor, then an Axe-FX III. Purchased IR packs. Then I discovered load boxes. Now I have a Waza Tae and an Ox Box. I also used to spend so much time tweaking tones and IRs to try to find what I was looking for. To the point where I wasn't actually playing the guitar half the time. Now I have 3 exceptional tube amps, and I can just plug in tweak a few knobs and get what I want. Setting levels is super easy, my pedalboard has never sounded better, and for whatever reason I no longer have a high noise floor when recording. I don't play live currently, but that will now be an easier option.
I put together a nice recording system with different amp modelling pedals, a few cab simulators, and plenty of effects. It's conveniently set up; I can flip one switch and start playing, through headphones or monitors. And it sounds awesome. I can play a cranked Marshall, a crispy Vox, or a crystal clean Fender, all through a huge variety of speakers and cabinets, with just a few changes.
About 90% of the time, I flip on my 1 watt tube amp that's run through a little 1x8" cabinet with a fuzz pedal in front. I *love* playing it. It's just so much more satisfying. If I had to pick only one system to keep and play, I think it'd be the amp and speaker.
I've run a home recording studio for several years, I have a few tube amps, but I use neural amp modeler pretty much exclusively. I have my own amps modeled exactly the way I want, and it's a huge time and energy saver.
Lots of great points. I agree with all of them.
I’ve said something to the same effect as you … if acoustic drums can be loud and live on stage - there can be a guitar amp on stage too.
That should be so obvious to FOH audio engineers … but it’s crazy how overlooked that LOGIC is
I totally agree that when I use a modeler I pick a couple of amps and speakers and stick to them. I have a clean amp, a crunch amp and a drive amp model and they all run thru the same cab model. I sometimes change the cab for sounds with a lot of effects for voicing but not much. I find modelers a lot more interesting for dialing up effects/pedals and getting them to interact and being able to recreate the signal chain and settings to be where they shine, especially when recording and you want to punch in. As far as performing I am a firm believer in a band being "acoustic" and by that I mean that the volume that everybody is playing at works without mics, that the guitar, bass, drums, etc are all playing at the same level and thus create dynamics in their performance. If you are playing as loud as the drummer you are loud enough.
My happy place is modeller, tube power amps, FRFR speakers. I've never had this good control and sound quality at any sound level before!!
I primarily use digital amps when recording, but I use a tube amp live, which I feel like is the reverse of most people. Part of that is my tube amp is fairly basic, and I essentially only get a few sounds out of it between it and my pedalboard, whereas with software I often have easy access to a lot more amp sounds I don’t have access to irl due to money constraints. I frequently use a marshall JCM or JTM, and/or a Vox AC30 emulation on my music, neither of which would be sounds I could afford under normal circumstances. The freedom of creativity emulation offers, the variety of sounds that would otherwise be out of reach, makes them a great tool for the average musician on a constrained budget, recording at home.
I do a hybrid setup most of the time. Real amp through ir's. Live in my studio I've been really enjoying going through emulated cabs through monitors as well as my live 2X12 at low volume. The monitors fill in a lot of high end detail and I get low end push from the cab that monitors just can't do. The combination is incredible.
I am a lot like you. I prefer a tube amp when I play out. I own 18 tube amps, ranging from .75 watt up to 160 watts and everything in between. I also have a Headrush pedalboard and a Headrush looper board, with two FRFR 108's. I like doing stereo and wet/dry/wet rigs, for that wall of sound effect, made famous by Brian May and EVH... it just adds something special, that running to front of house, just can't duplicate. Depending on the set list, I generally use the Headrush strictly for the effects and the ease of setting up set lists, within the board itself. On occasion, I will use individual pedals on another board or sometimes, if I'm going "old school" music, I will break out the old rack units and the SRD rack units (Boston and Def Leppard). It's nice to have options. In the event that I have to go front of house, at least I have the Headrush and the two FRFR 108's to put on the stage (for a wet/dry rig), so that I still have something pushing air... and don't have to stand in front of the wedge.
A boomer revitalized guitar player, I began my resurrection with a modeling amp (Mustang GTX50) and after four years got a tube amp (George Benson Hot Rod Deluxe). The main difference, and I’ve compared them side by side in the same practice session, is the size of my grin. There is a difference. I call it “sparkle”.
I bought a POD XT Live years ago when I got married and moved into an apartment. It was a great tool and playing through phones was exactly what I needed at that time. But the overload of options was ABSOLUTELY paralyzing to me. If at any moment I wasn't fully satisfied with my tone (which was often), I'd switch to other models, other presets, tweak tweak tweak, and I'd spend so little time focusing on guitar. After several years I sold it and bought an AC-15, which I run through a Torpedo Captor and keep the cabinet modeler on the same setup for everything. And as a result I play a lot more guitar.
I couldn't agree more. I've had a Helix for years and I've recently come to realize that I spend 90% of my time tweaking my tone. There are so many options I just end up endlessly A / B testing rather than playing guitar. It creates an insidious feeling of dissatisfaction with the intrument and has honestly pushed me away from playing it.
The experience with a good tube amp is the exact opposite. I plug in, it sounds good and I just play.
Same 😊 now mainly I use amps or friedman ir-x and ir-d!
You know for all that the Helix offers I'm probably the most backward user of it. Instead of fiddling with a million presets or adjusting little settings I set up my system simple. Designed a preset for each style I may find myself playing in (I mostly hang out in the pop/singer songwriter/theater patch). And that is it. I treat it like I would a traditional amp and board set up. I don't care about the tiniest details in tone that only gear heads will notice. I want it to sound good. Be relabile and easy to use. And more important than any of that... Be consistent. I need it to do what it needs to do day in and day out and show to show so I can continue making a career in this. I'm not a gear player I'm a guitar player. And was hired to play guitar not to play dials and switches. If it sounds good to me then it sounds good to 95% of the audience. And that 5% that are not into it are probably musicians with their own preferences. I actually had a rule when I started this path. Ask my then girlfriend if she likes the sound of it or not. Because she's a non musician. If it was good enough for her it would more than likely be good for the majority and that is all I cared about. I've never understood the want to constantly tinker and change and just keep pushing buttons for some holy grayl that may or may not exist. Heck the only reason I even got a Helix was purely for transport sake since again it minimizes the parts in between me and the performance. Easier to transport cross state or cross country when on the road with singers and less upkeep
Ding ding. Tweaking sucks. Just get stuff that sounds good. The paradox of choice is real.
What a crap ...
I agree with the premise that you can spend time on non-priority activities. Prepare a few sets of tones and stick with them is easiest. I also like things on stage moving air.
I’ll have to agree with you in reference to stage esthetics matter. For example, I most recently saw a three bill show at Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion which featured STP as the headline act. The opening act was Soul Asylum. SA came on stage raw bro! Good ole fashioned stacks of Marshall amps and a drum kit flat on the stage with no riser-old school. They freakin rocked! The two other bands on the bill came on with theatrical staging, a ton of video screens etc… a few amps and the whole focus was the video presentations. I much rather see a band moving air on stage with the good old pulsating bass pounding on your chest than a band playing through the house on modelers. Great video!!
Yes! The amp on stage looks cool as well I think, especially my hardwood Mesa Boogie Studio 🙂
Been (at least mostly) digital for almost a decade now. I got tired of having to wear friggin ear pro just to record. Had an HD500X with a DT50 2x12 (that actually sounded great but was DEAFENING...) and sold it all when I got a Two Notes Torpedo Live in January of 2017. Sold that when I went fully digital and got my Axe-FX II Sept 5th, 2017, which I STILL HAVE! Love it! To celebrate SEVEN YEARS with the thing, I ordered a brand new Axe-FX III Mark 2 Turbo that should be here in a few days. I am usually in my studio and it's the absolute best for that, but I have taken it out live a few times and even for that, being able to bring everything in in ONE TRIP? That's AMAZING!! Definitely gotta have something moving air on stage though...for sure. But for me? Not just digital, it's FAS for me. They were the first to really get modeling "right" and I still think they do it best. FAS FTW.
I am still 100% tube. I hate all the digital stuff.
I arrived at a fully digital rig after getting my hearing tested, and finding out that I had significant hearing loss. The audiologist guessed that I was a guitarist before I told him. So now, I *always* use IEMs. I have a mixer on my board so can tap into a feed from a wedge, and even put up my own omni mic to hear the drummer if they are not miked. Once I had gone fully IEM, the idea of carrying a bulky amp and pushing air seemed pointless. I've got a couple of virtual rigs on a Helix that I never change, and use them like an amp.
Once in a while I go "virtual shopping" and try out some new amps and effects on the Helix, just for fun mostly, but sometimes I find something that inspires me, and it hasn't cost me a penny more.
I miss tube amps sometimes, but I'd miss my hearing a lot more if it got any worse
Well put Rhett and 100% agree particularly about aesthetics but I would also add even when recording if the visceral nature of a loud tube amp makes you play better capture that performance. But that can equally be said if you are into bands and the vibe of Axe Fx or Kemper. Whatever makes you play better and enjoy yourself.
The phrase "silent stage" is so depressing. Amp modeling, in-ear monitoring, performing to a click, performing with prerecorded tracks...all of these things are so dweeby they should be illegal. So much Rain Man energy goes into concerts these days you'd think it would be a golden era for live albums, but nope. Rock music currently has the spontaneity of a Swiss watch and the creative potency of a lawn chair or pair of sensible shoes.
10000%
I work full time as a guitarist - and still run my Friedmans and 2x12s and run them appropriately. Get a captor X and be done with it
Absolutely could not have said it better myself.
So true.
When I first heard you say something like this I gotta be honest, I kind of bristled. Hearing you explain it here, it makes a lot more sense and I completely understand your perspective. One way I have approached the stage volume/monitoring thing is to take a split from between the amp and cab block and run that into the FX Loop Return of a small combo amp. FOH gets what it needs, I can monitor that sound through the wedge/IEMS as needed, but I can fallback to the amp on stage if I need to pull an ear out or the monitoring situation (like you described at CMA Fest) just kind of sucks.
I do completely agree that the visceral feeling of playing an amp in the room is still king. If I want to play guitar strictly for fun, I’ll do that. But more often than not, my guitar playing is a service I’m offering-to another artist, to a producer, or (when I play my own music) my audience, and I can offer them a more consistent, reliable, replicable sound with my Quad Cortex. I can tell you that, outside of a few fellow guitar nerds, nobody will notice or care if I don’t have a real amp on stage. I agree that in small-midsize clubs, or situations like you outlined where the monitoring is less than ideal, you do need something on stage making at least some noise.
I've tried both modellers and a full pedalboard with a tube combo and I've liked both. My problem is I love a lot of different effects and building a giant pedalboard was a bit more than I anticipated with the wiring and the layout running a power supply. I've tried getting just a straight , dry, good amp tone in a few different modellers and couldn't get out of it what I wanted. I got my combo out and straight away I had great, usable, edge-of -breakup tone without much fuss and even if I wanted a different crunch/lead tone it wouldn't take very long simply adjusting the EQ and gain. I've since decided to go with a hybrid approach and plug straight in to the amp and use a modeller for just the effects, maybe running a drive pedal before the amp and I'm loving the way everything sounds. Eventually I may start adding a couple unique, character delay or modulation pedals for a different color.
I love my Kemper Power Rack. You cannot overstate the impact of the cabinet, or speakers rather, on the sound we experience when playing guitar. Try experimenting with direct profiles into your various cabs and speakers. You can tell me you like your tube amp better all you like. You won’t pick it out in a blind test. Guaranteed.
see, the point here is, it's not about a blind test, not about "the same sound". It's about what you prefer. For you it's modelling, for others it's having a tube amp. that's the statement in this video.
@@terraincognitaband7273 if you don’t like it better in a blind test, then you’re listening with your eyes. That’s an objective statement. That was my point. Keep playing whatever you like of course. On that point I agree completely.
Totally agree! I ‘PLAY’ guitar whenever I’m using a tube amp, but I end up mostly ‘TWEAKING’ modellers. I’m working on an EVH Helix preset to give away free on UA-cam and then I’ve decided to sell my Line 6 Helix.
Rank amateur here: recently built a kit tele and starting on a strat - I can play, barely. I was advised that the NU-X MP3 was the best headphone amp/modeler for the buck. I love the thing - virtually limitless options and settings and it sounds GREAT. That being said, Dad played when I was young and I find that I miss the smell of his Bassman or Champ when it starts up, the warmth of sitting next to it on a cold day, turning an analog knob until it's in the exact right spot, it's the EXPERIENCE as much as the sound...
Bass player returning as a guitarist following a long layoff. Heard all about how incredible katanas are and thought it would be a great way to get into something different following my return to the hobby. Really enjoy the katana; its great. Still, the desire to get a proper Marshall was so tempting so i got a DSL40CR. Wow, same universe but worlds apart. The tubes make it organic and fill the room differently than the katana. They perform the same function but behave drastically different.
Rhett - I have a couple of decent little amps (1 tube, 1 SS), but like using Amplitube 5 + TONEX, and also the HX Stomp. My reasons are 1 - I don't gig, and I'm just a basement hobbyist, 2 - I could never afford the amount of gear that I would like, so the modelers give me access to all sorts of effects and amps that I otherwise could never experience.
I'm glad, we have all the old tube's , the kemper, and all the digis! You can talk about it a lifetime 😊
Love the comment about if there is live drums on stage you can have a guitar amp. I have said the same thing a few times myself.
Who ever thought, when practicing at home through headphones cos nobody wants to hear you, " I so want to get a band together so we can play gigs and I can still play through headphones!"?
What sold me on modelers is how cheap they make the process of aquiring (very many) great sounds. Got my HX Stomp for about 500$ second hand, and the guy i bought it from was kind enough to throw in some quality IRs. After a bit of tweaking and learning i am now, as a student, able to make my amateur, cover band playing ass sound damn near professional. It's also incredibly versatile, i can make my electric guitar sound like an acoustic without having to swap guitars or own acoustic guitars for that matter.
Sure, a real Soldano, Matchless or whatever would sound better than the models of them, but i don't have to pay Soldano or Matchless money to sound good. My current rig, pedals and all accounted for, costs less than one of the amps that i model, and it is almost at a point where i can do most if not everything i might need to do, now and in the future which is a great feeling to have for someone that doesn't have that much money to spend on boutique gear.
I like the benefit of both. Modelers have come a long way but I liked the old line 6 beans. I like solid state amps like the old peavys, tubes are fantastic. Just enjoy the ride man🤘🏻
Fwiw, I don't disagree with anything Rhett said, yet, I find this topic very, very "tired". My FM9 + Quilter rig is significantly more practical for my needs and sounds awesome. Touring US & Europe? No voltage transformer needed. Want optimal tone from a tube amp at 90++ dB in a Parisian apartment ? ... yeah, not gonna happen. I guess I could spend $900 on a Freyette attenuator , but I'll pass.
There are all tube amps that are under 5w. My practice amp has an option for .1 watts. Full saturation at LOW volume. You could play that in an apartment no problem. I did for years. If you like digital stuff better that is cool. It’s all personal esthetics. That said, your argument against using tube doesn’t hold water.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural I would need another tube amp for gigging? Does your 5w tube amp have a voltage switch for Europe? How much clean head room does it have? Yeah, still not working for me.
@@musiccreation1198 you tour with a single amp? For what I paid for mine you could just buy one from the European market and give it away after. I’m not suggesting you actually do any of this. Like I said, if you like digital, go digital. If it’s the reasons you give here then there are nearly endless ways around them.
Why does a person playing an instrument that loud, get called too much noise, but a person playing their stereo is fine until whatever the cutoff time is?
70db of those terrible systems, which crank the sub woofer as loud as everything else, or louder, are much worse _noise._
I can play my 40watt tube amp, at a volume loud enough for me to practice, and I’m not hitting 90db.
I might, here and there, but mostly, I’m no louder than the tv, on the other side of the wall, from me.
@@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural
I agree. I have a small solid state and I can use a 40watt DSL, at a volume that is no louder than the next apartment, or room over’s television.
Many times, I’m at a lower volume, because they leave it cranked for commercials, that often sound like a 20db boost. 😄 I doubt it’s more than 5-10db, but it sure feels like when I forget to check that my boost pedal is set right, and just blew my bandmates’ heads off, clicking it on for the solo. 😆
I think my father listened to sporting events at 100db, in his last ten years of life.
Sound is great, for the price of the tv’s, but when my dad had a four speaker setup, in the early 90’s, it was such a great sound.
I have high school friends, who still ask about that system he had, because we would bring new albums to my house to listen to them properly, before everyone got cars, and their own systems.
Even then, folks liked to come over just to listen to music or watch a movie. We’d walk around the neighborhood, getting stoned, then listen to the system.
Sorry for the rambling. My dad died last year, and the topic made me think of him.
Totally agree, I have UAFX Dream, Ruby, and Helix and only ever use the Helix if the set absolutely requires fast changes with multiple effect changes happening simultaneously. The other issue is, I think we're all kidding ourselves if we think we play the same with no amp in the room. I know I definitely play very differently when I'm playing through an amp vs silent stage and using IEM's.
I have an HX Stomp XL that I've been using for a few years now - great for recording and for easily accessible tones for live work. Last week, I was recording a rock track and used the modeler but also made identical tracks (as best I could) with my Super Sonic head through my Captor X. I knew what I thought so I blind A/B'd the guitars in the mix for a friend who has good ears: we agreed that the tube amp sounded better, especially on the parts where I was playing softer and/or dialing back the volume knob. The modeler is still a useful tool, but I guess I'm keeping some gear!
Sometimes stages wouldn’t even give a choice. That is usually how the migration starts for many guitarists that do not have the funds or space to maintain many different type of gear.
I am going back to amps and pedals and loving it. I tried digital and while I love messing with computers, programs, and settings, I do think it gets in the way of playing.
After having multiple tube amps fail on Sunday mornings, I got an iridium as a back up. It’s a great option, but similar to what you say here I basically always keep it on the AC 30 setting where I like it and never use the other options.
Also, I find with most modelers they just don’t feel quite the same and I always end up playing with more gain than I want to try to get it to sound right. When I come back to real amps, I’m always pleasantly surprised at how nice they feel and sound with less gain. I’m not sure someone in an audience could tell the difference, but the difference certainly makes me play differently.
To the point about looks/aesthetics on stage, I fully agree. I once watched a metal showcase and every band had modelers, (and most had tracks they had to sync to from a laptop). There was a stiffness to the whole thing, and while the musicians were fantastic, it just looked odd to me not to have amps behind them, even if it was just for looks.
I use an fr12 with a tonemaster pro and I love it. It was just easier for me to get an all in one box rather than put together a pedalboard
I play mostly Jerry Garcia and dead related stuff. Jerry's tone is (to me) one of the hardest tones to achieve. Jerry inspired tone enthusiast spend 1000's of dollars and countless hours chasing it. His combo of modded twins with McIntosh power amps, combined with OBEL guitars it tough to nail. Today I am fully digital using the Tone Master Pro with IR loads and it's the closest I've ever been...
Agreed, options overload is a real thing and detrimental to actual guitar playing.
My live rig is a simplifier running stereo with a Morningstar mc6/ml10 running the switches. Best of both worlds.
The reason why tube amp has retained its popularity among guitarists is because the effects produced by overdriven tubes are simply too complex for any analogue circuit to emulate. Many of them are dependent on input dynamics which simple clipping circuits like those used by distortion pedals and solid state amps can't hope to mimic.
Digital modellers, however, is a different story. In theory, they can reproduce all the effects tubes may produce but the problem was to do it in real-time with a reasonable amount of computing power & level of complexity involved in software. For that reason, they had failed to completely replace tube amplifiers until recently.
But things have changed recently with the advent of AI(i.e. neural network)-based modellers, like NAM. Their fidelity still many vary, depending on the quality of the sound samples used to train the model. But for the first time, it became feasible to emulate tube amps with good enough fidelity on a consumer-level gear.
It means there's little reason left to stick with tube amps for most guitarists because a digital setup has other huge advantages over its tube counterparts. In order to reproduce the tone you hear in classic rock albums, for instance, your setup needs to satisfy several conditions which may not be practical in many cases.
It's not sufficient to just to have a good tube amplifier, which could be a challenge in itself, if you don't know about, or can't afford boutique-level handwired replicas, since popular modern amp vendors typically sell cheaper, and more versatile products that don't sound as good as their flagship models in the 60s and 70s.
And nobody uses tubes for high-end circuits like those used for medical or military devices nowadays, which means it's increasingly difficult to find good quality tubes. Yes, they still sell "Mullards" or "Telefunkens", but they're just cheaply manufactured tubes from the same company, rebranded to lure clueless customers. If you know what NOS tubes are, then good for you. But how long do you expect the stock would last? A decade? Or even shorter?
And even if you somehow managed to get a high quality tube amplifier with a good set of tubes, you need to know how to maintain it. How many guitarists know how to bias their tube amps, for example?
But the biggest problem with tube amps is not that they're difficult to find and maintain. Rather, it's the fact that they need to be played LOUD to get the most out of them. It's surprising how many guitarists who own tube amps don't understand this, and keep playing with a master volume (which has detrimental effect on tonal quality in itself) all the way down to 2-3.
Fender Bassman, for example, has almost the exact same circuit with that of Marshall JTM, with only difference (other than the speakers) being the choice of output tubes. It means, output tubes play a significant role in determining the character of final tone and they only start to manifest when the tubes get overdriven. And there's absolutely no way to crank up a 100W (or even 50W) tube amp without having a garage/studio or having your neighbour call a cop on you.
Actually, there's one way, which is using an attenuator. Not to mention how surprisingly few hobbyist guitarists understand they need one to get the best out of their beloved tube amps, it colours the tone the more you attenuate the original signal. Also, a part of the guitar tone is determined by the cabinet, the way it moves the air column. As such, a 4x12 cabinet doesn't sound the same when you play it with a cranked up amp and do it with a volume down to a bed room level.
So, unless you own your own studio, an ideal setup would be running your attenuated (line level) signal through a digital cabinet simulator, preferably an IR-based one. But if you've come all the way down to here, why not go fully digital?
There's no "magic" in you analogue pedals because they're just a bunch of simple clipping circuits that are trivial to perfectly emulate with a digital circuit. And with a neural network-based modellers like NAM, you can take a sample from a well maintained tube amp played with at an ideal volume, then emulate it with 99% fidelity. You can even experiment to create your own tone, like hooking a Bassman head into a JTM power section, which may not be feasible in real life.
As such, there's a good reason to go digital nowadays, if you are not an expert in tube amps and have your studio. You may have tried digital modellers several years ago and got disappointed. But it could be because they didn't sound as good as those available now since techs, especially those related to AI have been moving at a blinding speed recently.
I've been strictly a Helix user for about 5 years. I have used the same 3 amp models in it for the entirety of those 5 years. Occasionally, I will start to mess around with new features or models or tweak the presets that I usually use just to see if I can get a better tone, but I almost always go back to my core sounds and I really do prefer them over other plugins or modelers that I borrow from friends. I almost always use a cabinet and a power amp when playing live still because I think stage sound is important, especially in small clubs. Maybe it's because I've gotten too comfortable with these tones, but it's what works for me. Tube amps feel more like a luxury for most gigging musicians at this point.
Totally appreciate and agree with your decisions - but sometimes, especially when playing smaller clubs - tube amps aren’t possible. I’ll ALWAYS use a tube amp (Mesa Lonestar 2x12) if possible - but sometimes a gig’s circumstances require a silent stage. And when that is necessary, I’m thankful for L6. Just sayin’. Great content as always. Cheers from Texas 🤘
I have fallen head over heels for my ToneMaster Deluxe. It has been the best piece of gear for me and really is the best of both worlds.
I like hybrid , modeler to the house , amp for me . Mostly cause I like the amp on stage visually , but also I don’t like silent stage . Even if I can’t always hear the stage with ears in or feel the air. I do however most of the time end up having to play without one on big gigs, get stationed nowhere near it on stage, or have to move far away from it during the performance to solo or vibe/dance with the artist
I get hate from the lovers of the great modeling systems out there, but the issue of programming and configuration is and will always be a major issue. I deal with this in my own reduced playing schedule and I have learned two important things. First, the front-of-house engineers will tell you the truth. I always get compliments on my tones, and I'm only using a 100W BOSS Katana. I sold my Boogies and Marshalls out of necessity. (My back). Second, I can not rely on programming via the amp panel. It's always the case that you get the most out of setting tones and configuration via the computer interface. I'm old school, but I know when I need to embrace the modern future. I love moving air with a 100W Marshall with at least one 4x12 cab, but I'll do that if SIR provides the backline. Thanks Rhett. This is a great discussion. My views don't count much anymore, but I'm still working and using the tools that we use.
Personally I like both - there's definitely advantages and disadvantages to each like you pointed out. My rule of thumb is usually if the set is longer than 45 minutes, I'll bring a real amp, if it's less than that I'll bring a modeler. I can't be bothered to drag out a heavy ass AC30 (or Hartke 4x10 if I'm playing bass) for a 30 minute set these days, lol.
I've worked as a sound engineer for 40 years and I understand what you are saying. But there is a difference between one guitarist and another. Some guitarists like low volume on stage just enough to feel the amp, then others just turn it up to 11 and totally destroys the sound engineer especially in smaller rooms. A 4x12 is highly directional and will easely destroy the engineers ears if turned up to loud. And in smaller rooms(if it's a big outdoor stage they can turn it up as loud as they want it to be) with a lower stage height turning up your volume too loud will also destroy the ears of the crowd and ontop of that totally destroy the bands sound. Unless your band only wants the guitar to be heard. Not all guitarists thinks about this unfortunatly. Some guitarists/bands really wants to sound good and balance their sound on stage which will make the band sound soo much better(Omar and the Howlers is an excellent example). In conclusion I'm all for guitarists using real amps but some needs to balance their sound/volume on stage.
I ended up with the MixWave Benson Suite and the MixWave Ashdown ABM EVO IV plug-ins, which are pretty much what I use when recording at home. For current bass gigs I have a Helix LT that usually goes direct into the board. We use wedges, so it's not all that quiet. If I need to provide an amp. I have a Darkglass that I run into a pair of PJB Compact cabs. The last time I had the compact cabs out, somebody complained about the noise, and we got shut down. Still got paid for the gig...
I think it depends on the application and venue.
I appreciate the thoughts and the insights. Good video. Thanks!
To the boogie thing, it was once explained to me that they put that amount of controls on the thing that maybe somebody might be able to find a good guitar sound in there somewhere, but really they didn't know what a good guitar sound was in the first place. Food for thought I guess.
I'm 95% digital (Kemper) and just got a few analog pedals left. I play in my appartment/studio only so I can barely crank a tube amp. I also love playing with headphones at night. I switch between a 1x12 cab with V30 and my Kali Audio monitors.
If you can afford to do both, by all means go for it. It all depends on the gig. For me, it's just easier to go digital. I have a 5150 iii 50 watt that never gets played but it's there if I need it. I have an HX Stomp that I use with my power stage if I'm playing somewhere and I have only a few minutes to set up. For most gigs I'm using either a Kemper or Axe Fx with a Marshall 4X10 cab. As far as the user interface goes, like you said you need to use the software ahead of time and dial in your sounds that you need depending on the genre.
Same here, 1hr tweaking, 20min playing.😅
Each to their own. I had had Boss Gt5 ; Gt 8 (I still have it for acoustic gigs) and a Boss got 1000 core which is on my board . I always use the 4 cable method going in to my amps.
In my studio, for practice and fun, it’s easy just to turn on the PC , my board with the core , RC500 looper, going in to my Yamaha HS8 monitors. And for recording the core is awesome.
But when I play in my two groups, I use my Fender Hot Rod and Marshall AFD 100 with an amazing (but expensive) switcher which lets me use them in stereo, or single., switching between the two from fender clean rhythm to Slash (ok haters) soaring leads on the Marshall. I have a fulltone OCD on 18volt going in to the fender. That is all. Nothing in the Bosss GT comes even close. The GT core is 4 cabled to the Marshall AFD for effects only (which are really, really good) My Marshall has no reverb. My amp doesn’t need an overdrive. So I use just two patches using my AFDs natural tone. Reverb, delay, chorus, fuzz , flanger, way, when necessary. Boss foot pedal controls volume , tuner and effects when selected (wha etc.) What I find really useful is the clean EQ volume boost for solo which is last in the chain.
So my point is You don’t have to choose Digital or Valve. Combine or use them separately for the task in hand. I am very lucky to have been able to afford my amps. I wouldn’t be able to buy them now. I would hate to play live without them. But yes. Digital these days is definitely gigable. But to my ears there is nothing like a good tube amp.
Been all digital bascially all my life, I have owned some solid state amps, but have also owned Line 6 gear (Spider 2 lol, POD XT, POD HD)
Now I use a laptop live and play Neural DSP Archetype Gojira, we play all in ears, I program all my patch changes, and I love it.
I have to agree with many of the points. I have used only Kemper for over ten years and I too have gone through a ton of profiles, but still only use one or two favourite ones. Every time I get to sit down with nice tube amp I can explore it and find sound that inspire me to play different stuff and that is so great.
Kemper does not work like that, but it is just so damn convenient. Living in a flat with family and having time to record something late at night and so on... There is no chance I could use tube amp in 98% of the time.
I use a 50w Boss Katana Mk I as a clean platform and run all my pedals up front. I've been using it on bar gigs regularly for a few years now and I always get compliments on it.
I recognise this. For recording I use a modeler, but live I've reverted to analog 🙂
I'm similar but not so extreme. I generally stick with same profile for a month or so, then find a new favorite. And really a small subset of favorites. And in the end any tweaking ends up with the same sound my ear likes, regardless of modeler.
I love my tube amps, Kemper rack mount, and my 200 watt Line 6 HD w/4x12 cab, and a few solid state amps. You can get any sound you want. However, I love my 64 Plexi Marshall most of all. It moves air and sounds fantastic, but very loud (most Plexi's need to be on 11) :-;!!!
Hey Rhett, I'm in violent agreement. As I commented below, I just cannot imagine playing my electrics through modeling SW into the PA. You're then relying on the monitors to be high enough fidelity to give your sound back to you. In ears? Maybe for really soft-sounding/low volume situations like in a one-man/woman band in a small restaurant. If the volume is low enough you likely won't need monitors at all for your instruments nor your vocals!
For real rock/blues gigs, I gotta have me an amp! Peace, Love, and Bobby Sherman!! 😁😁
As a broke college student who can’t afford nice tube amps, I use a ToneX One on my board to emulate the sounds I’m going for, but I split my signal before it reached the ToneX so that if I can afford a good tube amp, I can go down that route as well
For recording, modelers and plugins 100%. For gigging in a rock-ish band, tube amps. Maybe a hybrid setup with a load box for live would make it nice for everybody
I agree for the most part, the thing I’ve found with the digital stuff (which I use for most live gigs) is that you’re at the mercy of the front of house guy and some potentially weird EQing.
I started playing guitar in the 90's. It's shocking how much better gear is these days. Beginner's amps were horrendous back then.
I don’t have anything inherently against digital gear. I love the concept of a portable rig in a box and the convenience it promises, but it rarely delivers. One issue is that while digital modelers can sound close, they don’t align with my mental model of how real amps behave. It’s frustrating to adjust settings on a touchscreen when I’d rather just turn a few knobs. Modelers are great for exploring different sounds, but once you find what fits your style, it's better to stick with the real amps that deliver the best versions of those tones. At the end of the day, gear is just a tool, and limitations can actually foster creativity. Knowing your equipment and working with the limitations of a couple of amps can help define your sound. After trying out numerous modelers, I finally settled on a Friedman Small Box, and I couldn’t be happier.
I am just a 'weekend warrior' so my preferences are based on that. I am not a professional and am never going to make a living playing my guitar. From my perspective I play mostly classic rock. I really just need a basic clean, crunch and lead sound and I do the rest with the volume and tone controls on my guitar and a few basic pedals. I use a modeler for practice and have done the same thing. I setup a few presets that I use to get my Marshall tone and stick with it. I have spent hours playing around with my presets only to fall back on my 3 main presets. I have a tone in my head that I want to achieve and tend to stick with it. Playing in a venue I prefer to have my Marshall DSL40C and my pedal board and I can be setup and ready to play in minutes.
So I’ll give all the usual disclaimers like over the last 40+ years, I’ve owned a gazillion tube amps, played a bazillion gigs, record a lot etc. All true.
In my experience, tube amps sometimes sound great. Lots sound like crap. They’re all heavy (ok not my ac4) and picky.
I’ve had modeling amps since the second gen line 6. I can’t even remember how long ago they came out. I’ve loved them all for what they let me do as a performer.
I like tube amps. I don’t take them out anymore. They’re heavier than I want to carry and finicky.
I can do things with an hx stomp and catalyst that would be impractical if not impossible with an analog rig. I program it and then play it. I limit my choices so I don’t have option overload. I use the tech to do musical things.
For me it’s about matching the right tool to the right job. Quieter stages are a thing for some players.
Tubes are not necessarily better in any absolute sense. Modelers aren’t the holy grail either. There’s a place for both.
Most modeling pedals have multi outs. You should have emphasized that you can provide a DI out to front of sound, whilst also pushing sound into an amp, so you can suffice your own needs and front of house.