Porsche 997 Gen 1 & Gen 2 - What's The Difference? - FGP Prep Book EP31
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- Опубліковано 19 гру 2021
- While preparing a generation 1 and generation 2 Porsche 997 ready for sale, we take a look in to what does and doesn't differentiate the two from one another.
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- @fifthgen911 (Instagram) - Авто та транспорт
Original owner of my 997.1 C2 (11/2004 build with a 6-speed and PASM), now with 160k miles on it. Daily driver and occasional autocrosser. Not a garage queen. It transports the kids, the interior has hockey stick damage, sport bag scars, not to mention child seats and the children that go in them. Best. Mini-van. Ever.
The children grew up in the 997.1, so they're used to noise, a firm ride, and quick corners - no complaints from them either.
I have the oil analyzed every change, just in case the IMS shows signs of potential failure or bore scoring. If the engine ever shows signs of failure, I'd rebuild the 3.6 as a 4.0 with Nikasils and the IMS Solution. I may rebuild the engine at 200k miles because, well, it's probably time after 20+ years.
And then put another 200k miles on it so long as I can still by gas. The 997.1 is a lot tougher than you think.
Excellent review!
Gen 1 sounds without doubt much better,regarding bore bore-scouring as long you wait to rew the engine until its warm and do your oilchange properly i dont think this is any problem,i have the 997 gen 1 from 2008 with 3000 swedish miles on the taco and it is a fantastic car,you can really feel the heritage from the 356 and i love it
Best regards from sweden
i am getting old, these youngsters amaze me with their knowledge and Lukes got a great business, credit to you him.
Gen 1 all around is my choice. Both beautiful cars.
Both sound fantastic however I prefer the Gen 2
Have a Gen1 4S auto which is my retirement folly and love it almost as much as my children. Use it for weekend drives on A and B roads around the Yorkshire Dale's and Moors, Peak District, Lake District and Wales. Loving driving again. Thanks for your informative videos. Keep em coming.
The more I watch your videos the more I am convinced that I need a 911 in my life and as for which one, I think I would play it safe with a gen 2. When the time comes I will be sure to check-out your website.
Gen 2 any day need more video
let's get out & see this film - support JD & the cast
Love your website. Especially love the fixed price menu - great for making sure my local does not over charge me. Also great for knowing what type of stuff to do. Wish you and the team all the best Luke!
Enjoyed watching that, thanks. Having had a Gen 1 S manual with PSE and now owner of a Gen 2 3.6 PDK, I can say I much prefer the sound of the Gen 1 especially with PSE. Although, for me Gen 2 wins at everything else and with the PCM3.0 CarPlay install, right up to date.
Always enjoy your videos, and admire your story. There are a few other differences between the interior of the .1 and .2, including the mechanical switches below the PCM (the switches on the .2 no longer get sticky and don't require refurbishment or replacement) and the steering wheels are different. Also, I don't think it is possible to overstate how much faster and better driving the PDK unit in the .2 is over the Tiptronic from the .1. Happy New Year and keep up the great work. You have a bright future ahead!
Brilliant content as always, I think they both look fantastic 👍
That peace of mind with a gen 2 can't be understated.
Great video Luke! I purchased a 2007 C2S with 18K in mint condition. The options that were a must for me were the X51 with PSE included, the updated 997.1 engine, manual transmission and sport seats. A car that took a lot of searching to finally find. I love the car and the sound. I do not have sports chrono so I can keep my PSE in loader mode almost all of the time. I have recently upgraded the PASM suspension module for a DSC Sport module with the added Gforce module that came standard on 997.2 models but not on gen1 cars. The other mod I made which has made a big difference is a Numeric short shifter with the Numeric shifter cables. These mods improve the sportiness quite a bit without hurting daily driving. Keep up the great work! Happy Holidays from Canada to you your team and families.
Hi I have a guards red gen 2 s so iam biased,I have had 996 and gen 1 997s,fantastic video keep up the good work.
I had a Gen 2 with PSE and its main downside was the lack of sound. The Gen 1 has it popped well and truly. Other than that, I preferred the Gen 2 as it was my daily car.
The new website is superb and a great insight into your background Luke. I'm with you and much prefer look of the Gen1 plus I am a sucker for pristine lobster claw alloys. Hope you and the team have a great Christmas, so look forward to more content 🎄👍
Hi David, thank you for the feed back on the new website. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year from FGP!
Love these reviews! Gen 2 997 or gen 1 991 for me when I come round to buying one of these.
You both know your stuff! Would feel very safe in the knowledge of my car came to you.
Both Gen 1 & 2 are amazing if properly maintained and reasonable mileage. In early 2020, I purchased an amazing 2006 B on B 997.1 C4S, full leather & full factory carbon interior, aero kit, chrono, PSE, (fully optioned) etc, etc with only 18k miles, mint (no winters), no accidents. The C4S has the same running gear as the turbo without the mezker turbo engine (which is why people buy the turbo). For spirited every day driving and occasional track use, the C4S has more than enough power to find trouble (if you are not careful). I looked at 40 to 50 997's before pulling the trigger on the gen 1 C4S. It took me ~6 months to negotiate the deal as the seller was not in a hurry to sell. I had a PPI completed at a Porsche dealership which found: 1) weak struts in the frunk, 2) one horn was faulty and 3) front bump stops may need replacing in the near future. Great cars! Currently tucked away on a hoist in my garage for the winter (time to do some winter servicing). Note: I sold a mint FFR 427 65 cobra (roadster) to a gentleman in Germany and I bought the 997.1. It's like swamping a gourmet steak knife for a surgeon's scalpel. The 911 is purposeful and excellence refined, and there is nothing quite like it on the market - if that is what you are looking for.
Keep up the great work!
Congratulations on the purchase. Your Porsche sounds like a lovely car, which required some of the jobs that are oh-so common on these cars, that we attend to routinely in these videos.
Both nice but I went w an ‘08 Gen 1, only had 25k miles and was in impeccable shape
Good video, may have been worth mentioning (unless I missed it) a gen 1 auto generally has the much maligned Tiptronic box. Is that your new showroom being built next door?
Interesting video. Agree with you - prefer the more mechanical sound and classic looks of the Gen 1. I find Gen 1s undervalued compared to Gen 2s, considering similar maintenance and given that the typical cost of the fearful IMS replacement on a Gen 1 is often less than the price difference against an equivalent Gen 2.
Personally think the bore scoring issue which is the more common failure on the 997 gen1 3.8 engines, than the IMS bearing. As other than the earliest cars, they have the largest non-servable IMS bearing which were supposed to be the most reliable of the lot.
@@soyabean911 sadly cases of bore scoring on Gen 2s as well
Get 1 all day everyday, as long as it’s been looked after! I also prefer the lights on the gen 1! Great video, hope to see more videos like these 👏🏼
Great review as always, congrats on new website looks great. Don't forget to do a merchandize section as I've been sporting the FGP stickers (you kindly sent me) on my two 2004 996's (Targa & GT3) out here in California nd had several requests on where to find them... Anyway keep it coming great channel and content Thanks
Hi Ciex7, I'm glad the stickers got to you! Thanks for the feedback on the website. We will indeed get a merchandise store on there at some point, so stay tuned!
Hi Luke! Haven't seen you in a while. I will check out your website in a bit.
Looks like you've hired another mechanic. Business must be good.
I noticed a bit of blue smoke coming out of the Gen 1 on startup.
Just what did Porsche do about the IMS bearing and the bore scoring on the Gen 2?
I actually liked the sound of the Gen 2. Seemed a bit throatier and not as tinny.
I also of course liked the updated PCM.
Merry Christmas to you and Ollie and a happy and prosperous new year!
P.S. do you not have any heating in there? I've never seen Ollie wearing a cap. I know he likes to show off his hair. Lol
Another great video 👍
Really interesting and informative videos on your channel. Thanks! I'm really interested in a late 997.2 as my daily driver. Too bad I'm not living in the UK.
Gen 1 for me and yes it sounds better. I think at some point I need to get you to hunt me down a nice 997.1 Great vids and top work, learnt a lot from watching these. Keep it up!
Interesting video, I’ve got a Gen 2 C2 with 105k on it, I’ve had all the issues you’ve done on both cars done to mine, bar the clutch! Great cars and mine is a keeper, I do agree that the Gen 1 exhaust sound is better.
Agree, Gen 1 sounds much better. Interesting video. Merry Christmas, have a great 2022
Merry Christmas!
Another great video lads but I’m in the gen2 camp with the improved engine and PDK box but I still like the silver 19” sport design alloys
I’d love a gts but £20k more than an s ? Is out my reach
Stay tuned for a video on the GTS model soon!
Excellent video as usual, both cars are great looking in the best colour probably. I’d take the GEN2 for the engine benefits. By the way the website looks great, well laid out 👍
Hi David, thanks for your feedback, particularly with the new website!
I am surprised by how much work the Gen 2 requires, but it is testimony to FGP that you are so meticulous in inspecting and preparing these cars for sale. Another great video, thanks gents.
The parts on the cars go through what we like to call a "life cycle", whereby they reach a certain mileage and they require renewing. These two cars were of roughly the same mileage, so it's quite usual for them to need similar work.
Thanks for your viewing and for the kind words
Luke
@@friendsgreenporsche5234 Thanks for the explanation Luke, it makes sense of course, you have added to my understanding. Now just have to save up for a visit to FGP. :)
Great review of both cars,i am favouring the gen 1 exhaust note . Love forward to more reviews in the new yea
Sorry for incomplete reply but have a new puppy who’s constantly demanding my attention
Another great video with so much info, thank you.
Most people (me included) would think the Gen 2 would be an improvement but as you say that’s not always the case. 👍
Love the vids/website. How do we get FGP merch, e.g., the vest? Surely there is a market!
Quick question, On the Gen 1 why didn't you go ahead and address the IMS bearing?
Thanks
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your comment. You raise a good question, which I should have addressed in the video. As a standard course of practice, we upgrade all IMS bearings in the cars that require it. However, this example, (which, as a 2004 example, would usually require it), didn't require it, as it had been carried out previously.
That makes sense. Thank you for responding
Cheers
I’d be happy with either one. If I had to choose it would be Gen 2, improved engine…. Gen 1 exhaust sounds better though…
Very interesting and genuine opinion of these lovely cars
prefer the GEN2 as it still looks a modern cae to me especially interior wise. love these videos you put up.
Great video guys! Could you cover any maintenance protocols and issues with 997.2 PDK transmission in your next video. Cheers.
Hi Das10,
The early gen 2s are all starting to become due of their 12 year PDK box service. Maybe it would be interesting for us to do a video involving the procedure...
Thanks for watching
Nice review of both Generations. Though the exterior differences are minor, I do prefer the Gen 1, over the Gen 2. I also prefer the exhaust note on the Gen 1.
Did you realise that the Gen 1 is an S so 3.8 and the Gen 2 the Carrera so 3.6? so off course the sound is different!!
@@AP-ij2wz yes I did. I actually own a Gen 1 C4S.
@@jerrybradnan4119 me too😀
@@AP-ij2wz Hi AP. The sound difference between a Carrera and a Carrera S of the same generation is negligible
Thanks Jerry & agreed!
Exc mech / technical info .... the nitty-gritty detail we need and crave, thankyou!
I’ve got a Gen 2 with the PSE and a Sharkwerks crossover bypass back box. The sound is wonderful. It does drink a fair bit of oil though which is starting to worry me. It’s on 92k miles. Brilliant car though
I like the sports exhaust with the black tips, think they are only on a gen 2 tho
Great episode. Personally prefer the gen 2 cars, the led lights, the added piece of mind that the common engine failure risks have been resolved, and you can get it in a PDK. Definitely agree that the gen 1 exhaust sounds better. I do wonder if the gen 2 cars suffer from carbon build up on the inlet side, which is quite a common problem with direct injection engines, also curious if the Gundo exhaust hack can be applied on the gen 2 cars?
They don't suffer from carbon buildup. You can do a gundo mod. The gen1 cars sound different mainly because the exhaust is less restrictive and is an easy fix on the gen2 cars.
Excellent video. Please share the prices you sold each of these cars for. Thank you
Very informative vid thanks
Where do you source the buttons for the Gen 1 climate control?
Gen 1 defo great video guys
Great and informative video! Maybe you mentioned it but is the manual gearbox identical between 997.1 and 997.2? The gen 2 smokes abit at startup, more then gen 1… anything to worry about? Keep up the good work! All the best from Sweden!
I was wondering the same thing about the manual box. I have the Aisin 6 speed in my gen1 and it is superb. Can't imagine that Porsche would have gone to something different, but you never know.
Hi Lars,
Yes, the manual gen 1 and gen 2 cars share the G97 transmission made by Japanese manufacturer, Aisin. That's condensation from the tail pipes as it was a cold English December afternoon!
Many thanks for your comment and support
Luke
@ 11:20 - ‘New Carrera badge on the deck’ - was it definitely necessary? Perhaps the first owner opted for model designation delete. Which was fairly common on C2. I worked for the supplying franchise of this specific car, but my memory isn’t good enough to give you a definitive answer. Worth running a specification check though if you can
Hi Alessandro, thanks for your comment. Yes this example came from factory with model designated badging to the rear deck lid, so we reinstated it. In my opinion, the rear deck lids look too bare without badging.
Having fell foul of bore scoring on my Boxster 2008. - 3.4s Gen1, full history and only 38,000 miles, is the problem still occurring on the Gen 2 Boxster, as I am considering trying again and buying another Boxster for my retirement.
From what I have learned about 997.1 and 997.2, I would go for the '.2'. Clearly a more up to date car in terms of 'in car' tech which is useful but more importantly a '.1' engine will need a rebuild at some point in its life due to bore scoring - not something I would want to do if I can help it. IMS bearing replacement can be done when a new clutch is required, so although a costly addition it is manageable.
Actually on .1 it’s more than a clutch drop to replace IMS. You’ll need to open up the whole engine. The larger bearing won’t come through the port in the engine case as it did in the two 996 bearings and the base 997.1 for the first couple years.
@@chrisi3030 Using a self lubricating ball bearing instead of a lubricated solid bearing isn't really a good idea in a location where the bearing cannot be easily replaced. I can only assume it was done for cost reasons. The replacement kits use a solid bearing with an additional lubrication feed!
i recently bought a gen 1 997 Carrera S (3.8L), would you recommend to get the IMS upgraded and I am also thinking of upgrading the shocks, from the stock to something else, not bothered with track days but just something better, can you recommend shocks. Great video as well.
Gen1 looks amazing. The sound from the Gen1 is also better.
Gen 1 is the S so 3.8, Gen 2 is the 3.6, so it is normal that the sound is different!
@@AP-ij2wz Hi AP. The sound difference between a Carrera and a Carrera S of the same generation is negligible
Only in stock form, the 2nd gens more aggressive cams and higher compression create a more aggressive/motorsport sound once you change the restrictive factory exhaust. In stock form they are much quieter than the gen1.
I prefer the sound of Gen2, but look wise Gen .
What would be the cost for this types or repairs?
Thank you
Wasn't the bore scoring issue resolved on the late .1 cars (from MY2007)? And the IMS resolved from MY2006? And don't the direct injection .2 cars coke up?
Gen 2 is simply a better car. A much better engine, better interior and better lights. Looks are subjective, it's almost the same. You can get a great sound with both engine with a new exhaust system. Resale value wise, it's not even a question. The Gen2 was produced in much lower numbers and since it's a better car, it will hold its value a lot better.
Please illustrate the improvements of 997.2 between the 2009 and 2012
Hands down Gen 1 all the way. I have a Gen 1 997 and absolutely love it, best car ever.
I have to admit, I like the gen one sound better on this video. I have a 2012 997 gen 2 4GTS cabriolet, so can really appreciate the sound. That has sport exhaust which puts it in a different category for sound, Not sure if that was available on either one of these models as an option..
Phil
Minnesota
Hi Phil,
To answer your questions, yes, the PSE option was available on both of these models.
Greetings from the UK!
Brakes on the C2 were uprated with the gen 2 model so they are the same size as C2S...
is that possible to open up the trans bottom lip without drop down the whole engine
I love the gen 1. Both are really nice cars. Ok, maybe I'm a little bias because I have a gen 1. However, I think the 997 (.1 &
Was the second gen 997 making a little smoke when revved hard?
Both great. I’m inclined to a top example of 997 Gen 2 or a 991.
No, it wasn’t.
Problems with both 997s are a certain age that they need money spent on them with age related items. PSE on gen 2 is the biggest problem that fails, plus top sump is starting to leak. Clutch switch, main starter cable fail (slow turn over during start)
Thank you :)
I have a bit of a bias as I have a Gen 1 997. I too don't really like the LED lights or the wheel style of the Gen 2 cars. That said, I would prefer the Gen 2 engine given a choice, for the reason you mentioned...bore score possibility. The IMS is not an issue except on the very early gen 1 cars. I would like to know if there are any downsides to the gen 2 DFI engine. I heard something once that they can possibly have issues with carbon build up on the valves or something???
Bore scoring occurs on DFI engines as well, mainly cyl 1 and rod bearings wear out quicker due to higher combustion pressures on direct fuel injected engines. Correct oil and short shifting intervals are crucial. ( same as M9X engines)
@@klinke911 Thanks Klinker, very interesting! If you read the interweb, everybody seems to think the Mezger engine is the best thing ever since sliced bread. That may be true, but I sure do love my M96.05. Well, at least until such time as I ever have trouble with it I suppose!😉😉
The maintenance done on one of these cars with a clutch, brakes, hoses and suspension must easily be $6,000 USD in maintenance and repairs.
A great insight into the Porsche 997, personally I’d like the gen 1 but with a automatic box 👍🏾
The engine sounds a weeny bit more raspy on the Gen 1, but this is nit-picking 😄 As a matter of fact, all the 997s (except GT3, GT3 RS and GT2) have a much too subdued engine sound. Things improved quite a bit with the 991 generation.
Gen 1 sounds better
I think the perfect combination would be gen 1 looks and sound with gen 2 mechanicals and pcm. I think I would go for a gen 2 as a safer bet even if a bit higher in price.
Gen2 exhaust is an easy fix, the gen1 sounds different because it has 2 mufflers. Gen2 has more restrictive cats and a third muffler.
Gen II all the way! It also has a slightly more aggressive front bumper, but for the new dfi engine, no ims/ bore score worries, vastly superior auto on the pdk vs tiptronic and a much improved pcm unit, got to be the gen II. Reflected in the second hand prices too, gen II cars are a lot higher at the moment.
Porsche will release a classic PCM for the 997.1 before the 997.2 possibly.
If that's the case, the 997.1 will have a significantly better PCM for quite some years.
The second hand Gen II's are newer cars almost always with less miles. People are also very scared of the bore scoring issues.
I actually think the 997.1 looks quite a bit nicer than the 997.2 especially the rear. The rear headlights of the 997.2 look like a 2005 rear Ford KA's lights lol.
@@radeon08 Who knows whether the PCCM+ will be brought out for just the 997.1, or whether it will be compatible with both models. It would be nice if it were the latter.
The Gen 2 exterior mirrors are slightly different and larger than the Gen 1
Change in EU regs forced this. You’ll notice it on a variety of cars facelifted in 2007-2009. BMW E90 springs to mind. An increase in height was mandated.
Like the sound of G1 better but want a G2 for the direct injection
Direct inj. was a neccesary evil to meet emissions, already having failures, nothing good will come from DI.
I agree, Gen 1 looks and sounds better than the Gen 2. The same is true of the 987 models and I am guessing that the mechanical issues are similar for those models as well..
Just bought a Gen 1
Gen1 but my wife won't drive manual and I don't fancy a tiptronic so I'm having to dig deeper in my pocket to find a gen2 pdk
Genuine question. Why are there so many issues given the low mileage? They're a prestige car with a serious price tag so why all the faults?
They’re 14 and 18 years old
Gen 1 👌
Many comment on the sound difference between the 2 generations but do not understand why they sound different. The gen2 cars have equal length headers with more restrictive catalytic converters and a third muffler. You can make the gen2 sound better than a gen1 with exhaust work. The .2 engines have better flowing heads, more aggressive cams, higher compression and higher redline. With proper exhaust they'll sound better than any gen1
Can’t complain about my stock GTS. Astonishing that Porsche got this flap sport exhaust road legal.
@@hmk911 The GTS has PSE exhaust standard. The PSE is an improvement but it's still relatively quiet, an X-pipe or crossover pipes really wake up the PSE.
Gen 2 but I’m biased as i own one. 😀
Forgot the front end spoilers are different
Gen 1 has a terrible engine piston scoring and ims at any miles £13000 to rebuild the en, it looks fantastic and drives great the gen 2 997 has no problems that’s why it’s big money
Wow bit sound pretty poor! And I am in the market for a 997, whilst my ‘71 is getting her 3.8 ready. Even my Macan TT w sports exhaust sounds better. Time for a Tubi?
I'm with you, Gen 1 all the way! Looks better, sounds better and handles just the same as the Gen 2. Those reasons being as to why I own a Seal Grey Metallic 997.1 Carrera 2S lol. Picked it up with 27k miles and one owner with unbelievably immaculate service and maintenance history. Literally just turned 12 years old.. Built to order car so has the 19" Carrera Sport multi-spokes, hardback buckets with embossed headrests, PCM 2.0, Bose Hi-Fi system, extended leather pack, white dials, PSE, PASM. This is the EXACT spec I always wanted, I didn't want the Sport-Chrono as found it pointless and it ruined the classic lines of the dash.
Gen1 sound🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Very nicevideo. Personally I like gen1. Look genuine.... whats about IMS and bire scoring? I own a 997 4s gen 1 with about 25.000 miles.... is really a topic to focus deeply.? Thanks and have a nice christmas time
Depends on MY. 2008 Gen I onwards less concern required on IMS following a revision. Could apply to ‘57’ reg onwards cars, but need to closely check chassis nos. And then didn’t particularly apply to Gen II. Bore scoring prevailed across both generations, but reportedly less so with the 3.6 cars vs the 3.8 cars
D dave - it was a genuine issue on the earlier gen 1 S models, engines were going bang if not sorted out. It only affected about 5% of them and if your engine hasn’t gone bang yet then you’re probably ok as well, but worth checking if yours has had the preventative work done
one day it will be mine....
Do you guys know where I can buy a magnetic oil plug for the manual transmission for my 997.2 ? Thanks for your help! 🙏🏼
Direct injection is going to turn out to be the weakness in the gen 2.
Gen 2 every day
Gen2 sounds like a Dyson hoover, needs an exhaust. Great work as always lads. Id go with Gen2 to eliminate the bore scoring risk, 10k if that happens. Gen1 had Lokasil bore linings and Gen2 went back to Nikosil, which is what they used before, much harder wearing.
Don't Gen 2 cars cost circa 10k more to buy in the first place?
You forgot to mention the gen 2 has a lower front bumper and looks a bit more aggressive than the gen 1. The gen 2 has a 3rd muffler so it does sound more muted than the gen 1 however with a Fister exhaust and the 3rd muffler delete replace with an X pipe it sounds amazing! The gen 2 with the DFI engine produce more power and is known to be bullet proof. There's no question the gen 2 is a better car and will go down in history as one of the most sought after N/A 911.
The Gen.2 back lights are ugly to my eye. I know it’s a better car - but I Iook at my car more than I look at the specs.
Also the performance for a regular person like me is marginal .
My daily driver is a 2007 c4s Manual transmission
just hit 70,000 miles last week and no EMS issues. 🤞🏽
I’m old-school, I like lightbulbs. In my opinion, lightbulbs age nicely with character and charm.
I know this is subjective, but as an artist (20 years in the game)
I stand by that ugly headlights on gem.2
But this is all semantic they’re amazing cars and if you have one, you’re lucky.
Ahh in the first few minutes the car on left had 997.1 turn signals and right 997.2 led turn signals and clearly pointed out left is gen 2 and right gen 1 which is not correct and 3 min in both having led lights🤷🏻♂️🤣
In the first few minutes of the video, the car on the left was the 997.2 (hence the "58" registration), and the car on the right was the 997.1 (hence the "54" registration). As demonstrated and explained in the video, the 997.1 had previously been fitted with aftermarket led front running lights, which we were replacing in the video with its originals.
I hope this helps. Thanks for your viewing.
@@friendsgreenporsche5234 great channel btw. I also prefer the looks of gen 1 but prefer gen 2 engine which is why I have a 997.2 with lobster wheels to carry over a piece of gen 1 to my gen 2 beauty! Thx for review!
I'm owning a 997.1 in the future. Help me with my dream God lol
U got this black sheep, make a Plan,