Can I Mix Brake Fluid DOT Types Together? or With Water? Answers!
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2017
- Can I Mix Brake Fluid Types Together? or With Water? Answers! What kind of brake fluids are compatible? What should I do if I've put the wrong kind in? Let's talk about that and get a good discussion going on the topic in the comments below. Some great resources for answers are the Pinkbike website as well as epic bleed solutions, DOT.gov, MSDS reports, CASRN information, and ACS.org
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Disclaimer:
DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making a decision based on information you find on UA-cam here, or anywhere else when it comes to your car or your safety. Failure to follow this counsel could result in a Darwin Award. While this video is educational, it's up to you to fully understand the topics discussed here or seek advice from professionals familiar with your situation mm kay?
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Please use & apply this information solely at your own risk.
Due to factors beyond the control of briansmobile1 and the general lack of “common sense” in tort law and in this world generally, I cannot guarantee against improper use or unauthorized modifications of this information.
briansmobile1 assumes no liability for injury or property damage incurred as a result of the presentation of this information contained in this here video or any of the other briansmobile1 videos.
briansmobile1 recommends safe practices including the use of personal protective equipment such as eye protection, hearing protection, gloves, guards, shields, and respiratory protective devices when working on vehicles and or with tools seen or implied in this video.
Due to factors beyond the control of briansmobile1, no information contained in this video shall create any expressed or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result.
Any injury, damage, or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or from the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility and to be used at the discretion of the end user/viewer and not briansmobile1. - Авто та транспорт
I knew things like 3 and 4 were compatible and that 5 didn't mix, but the extra information here makes me feel sure about what I know...and more importantly it was a ton of fun! Knowing the background behind basic facts always makes me feel better about myself.
Thanks for the awesome video! I didn't even know there was a DOT5 brake fluid until now.
Can't wait for the oil additive video!
Briansmobile1 ,I used to ocasionally lose the passion to tinker ,learn and further explore the world of cars . But i must say , the rad advise and super grounded attitude people like yourself share with the world makes my home workshop into a constant hive of activity ! I have 6 subarus in total ,my fave bike and the ol work truck to keep me busy .....keep on doin what you do my freind , i always feel inspired watching your vids, i think mostly because you seem to truely enjoy being alive .....🌏☮🇦🇺
Awesome video, thanks Brian, I'm look forward to seeing your next one on oil additives.
i could watch Brian do the dishes all day long. Fun video, inspired me to do tire rotation with one jack, good times !
Well done buddy. Looking forward to wednesdays vid. Oil additives , very interesting subject and one I have talked to powertrain development staff about . Cheers
Wow, you are excellent on Chemistry also! Great information uploaded as always. It increased my knowledge on brake fluids and much more. Thanks for upload.
Honestly, I got a C in chemistry in college. Most all my other classes I got A's. I understand it well enough, but it's one of the classes I struggled to test well in. As a result my ears really perk up as if to compensate. It's something I feel I really have to prove myself in so I work harder at it.
thanks brian! really enjoyed this and the diesel video
You're welcome- my pleasure!
This is exactly the info I was looking for.
Looking forward to Wednesday. Thanks
Great video. Converted an old military vehicle from dot 5 to dot 3 while I was changing the rotten brake hoses by flushing it well with dot 3. Good to know the master/slave cylinder has a fighting chance at surviving.
Your cocktail is hilarious! :))
Wow, totally informative. I never knew it broke down and how water affected it. Now I'm writing dates on my stuff. Makes sense but i didnt know how it worked. I flushed my integra lines to the rear from the prop valve and it was all milky and gross. Till I cleaned them out and blew air through. Then I got them done up right with good pressure. But i was surprised at the crap that came out of both sides. Works great now till engine blew, but ill rebuild it quick enough. I use Lucas oil additive on stuff alot but not alot per car. I just use old fluid for bleeder kits. I'm hoping that's ok. God bless your family Brian, dam fine job sir!! HUA.
You can get electronic brake fluid testing device that tells you the moisture content of brake fluid and if it's still good, acceptable or bad. I had a container that was opened about 6 months ago, with some extra fluid and I think it tested 0% or 1% moisture (can't remember) but it was still good. The stuff in my cars brake system (from that same bottle) was like 2% or 3% basically almost at the 4% 'bad' level. So as long as the bottle isn't left open and has a good seal it might still be good.
You blinded me with science. It's poetry in motion.
All my tubes and wires and pencil notes and I can't find anything.
I have seen Bigfoot, he and she are living in Tennessee right down the street from me, great video Brian
Outstanding information and well presented.
Neat demo.
I’ve heard enough, I’m subscribing to this channel !
You are a great teacher man
Thanks Josh! I sure try. Feels good to hear that.
briansmobile1 thank you for taking your time to make these vids for us
Such a good idea to show how it reacts in 2 glasses... Very clear... Another questions here, maybe a too "duh" of a question, but hey. Can you mix different oils together or better not? Or does it depend on the type of car, or the type of oil or both??
11:00 getting ready for that romantic dinner tonight
My wife didn't volunteer her glasses, but she didn't fight it either. She's been giving amazing support to my UA-cam habit lately. Expect some great things to come!
I heard about antifreeze in wine but this.......may be on to something here.
(j/k) Great video :[]
briansmobile1 Perfect couples don't exi....
Yes, a video on mixing brands or viscosity of engine oil would be cool. Also, how about an easy way to change and flush brake systems?
Thanks for the idea Jonathan, the quick answer/fix I probably lost from here in editing, but DOT 5 doesn't homogenize, but it's the lightest. It's best to just pull it out the top if you can.
Brian, very informative. And here is your BCATE: Thomas Dolby "She Blinded Me With Science" Dr. Magnus Pyke - science
You're comparing me with Dr. Magnus Pyke???? WHAT! YESSSSS!!!! (double fists clenched and pulled to core) I love that guy! He was as pleasant and genuine as he was intelligent. The guy I'm learning about oil packs from is very, very similar and reminds me of him. That's fantastic if it's rubbing off on me.
Excellent video! About seals: I have a 2-cycle weed eater engine that I partly disassembled and cleaned with carburetor cleaner. I re-assembled it and liberally applied 2-cycle synthetic oil of the suggested type on all bearing surfaces and its crank case O-ring seal. The carburetor cleaner didn't seem to hurt the ring right away so I just oiled it and put it back in there. Was that the right thing to do? Or will that ring be unable to deal with all that oil and solvent?
No Old Wives Tale. As you know coming from a cold climate as well Bmob... Silicone will swell rubber...just like weather stripping. I have personally had to deal with this situation twice in my career. Once with a 2001 Cavalier, and once three years later with a Suzuki Vitara... both brought to me with a soft pedal. After a quick inspection, I found that all seals...including the seal even on the cap for the master cylinders were soft gooey and swollen and unable to hold their shape. Ironically on the Suzuki, the Girls Father owned a Harley Davidson and toped up the brake fluid with DOT5 after replacing one of her calipers. So yes, it is infact true. Just thought I would share my personal experience. Thank you for what you do!
And I was thinking a layer of dot 5 silicon would help keep the air out of a dot 3 and 4 brake system
Thanks for de mystifying brake fluid! Always wondered how they managed to complicate simple hydraulics to the point of cultishness.
Purple goes well with steak, straw goes good with seafood. haha Good info Brian
looking forward to the oil additive video, I use Delo Synthetic in my diesel truck and have done oil testing and been able to drive 20,000 miles and still have some oil life left.
That's awesome! I've heard good things about Delo 400 MGX in terms of TBN retention for longer drain intervals. What lab do you use Will?
briansmobile1 Blackstone laboratories, they are pretty good about providing the results by email as well as a general discussion and recommendation.
I bought a 1957 MGA from my girlfriend for $200. She had put regular brake fluid in it when it needed the mineral oil available back in 1975. I had to open the system including clutch slave cylinder. I replaced all the o-rings and natural rubber parts that the fluid comes in contact with, replace with new parts, and bleed the system.
Brian Glycol Ethers' claim to fame is that they are completely miscible with water. These chemicals are the key to all waterborne paint systems (like house paint) as they have the solvent power necessary to dissolve a resin but can be diluted with water. This unique property of glycol ethers (the ability to mix with water) are why antifreeze works the way it does. Any brake fluid that uses glycol either will absorb water.
Nailed it! You just earned a heart to that comment. Well said, and thanks for saying it.
I appreciate that you know what an MSDS is. lol
Finally, a video that doesn't hate on DOT 5 brake fluid...
Having a couple of military trucks and working with civilian trucks, I have experience with long term use of the different types of brake fluids from DOT 3 - DOT 5, but haven't used the DOT 5.1.
Military specs suggest to use DOT 5 specifically because it is hydrophobic (does not absorb water) for many reasons, one being that some vehicles are designed for water fording. Also, they want a standard for use in many vehicles, so that they do not have to carry a multitude of fluids that are not applicable to all.
When you "accidentally" mix DOT 3/4 with DOT 5, it does eventually sort of mix together, if you call silicone sludge slime mixing. It creates all sorts of problems when the fluids are mixed. My 46 year old truck has DOT 5 in it and it works like a charm.
The only real time you wouldn't want to use DOT 5 is with fast acting actuators like they use in ABS systems, it does tend to draw up the bubbles which is not good for ABS type of brakes.
People wonder how the "water" gets into the brake system. Mostly from the heating and cooling from the brakes, not just when you leave the cap off of the master cylinder, though that can contribute to it as well.
Good video, keep up the good work. Sub'ed.
5Ton Fluffy
I've been wondering though, some water mixes in with dot 3 or 4 but water sits on top or on bottom of dot 5 which, to me, would be worse because it would be direct water on internal components vs a mix.
I'm trying to figure out what I have, I have a humvee which should be dot 5 silicone but my color is a dot 3 or 4(not purple), some people say it can change color but that would be pretty dramatic if it shifted from purple to yellowish.
another interesting experiment would be if you had a closed system with a piston and get it up to boiling temp of water and see how much the piston expands with each mixture
Hey Brian, if I had a entirely new brake system in my car and filled the system with dot 5, do you think it would be good? Thanks!
Hi Brian, you mentioned the dot 5 in your mountain bike. Was that replacing a mineral oil brake or a dot fluid brake? Just asking because I'm curious if the dot 5 would effect seals that are designed for mineral oil?
Hi Brian, thanks for that video. But I do want to see your video about the oil additive/ metal treatment, I can't find it in your video list, please direct it to me, thanks from down under.
so can you use dot 3 in a dot 4 system
do not remove the tag from your mattress people
lol. My thoughts exactly. Forums are great for statistical accuracy through numbers and sample size (like guessing how many beans in the jar), but you'll get some soap box puritan-type witch-burning vigor to it as well. It's all good. People mean well. I dig that. Hugs all around anyway.
briansmobile1 Exact my point, thnx
ive kept a bottle of 5l dot 3 fluid and it kept for almost 2 years lol mind you i kept the cap on tight all times but i used it often and it felt just as good the last bit i used as when the bottle was new, and ive also had brakefluid sprayed in my eye from my bleeder hose coming off LOL watch out for that but im fine
Please make a video on showing the "live temperature change of brake oil during braking"....there is no video on the internet for this topic...
So I can put Dot 5 on my old Honda(actually with Dot 4.1) without change the Brake hoses? only with drain the System? or I need change all hoses, seals
hi sir, can i put mineral oil in a rcs brembo DOT4 pump? Can mineral oil destroy o-rings? or is it DOT4 that cannot be used in a mineral oil plant? thank you
so how does absorbed atmspheric water affect the brake hydraulics, tans for posting this
Great! But I can never bleed my brakes because the stupid bleed valve is stripped from me trying to get it off so many times and not succeeding even once.
When you say your against oil additives, are you talking about gasket sealers and those dodgy ones or the performance increasing additives?
What about oil flushs? Those additives that are meant to help you drain more of the old oil
If I were to completely flush my brake system, could I use DOT 5 over DOT 3?
briansmobile1 what are your thoughts on waterless coolant?
200k subs!
why does the fluid look dirty and used after time even though the system is sealed?
MusTang Nick I believe it has something to do with heat cycles over the life of the fluid. I think the heat breaks it down over time, that and corrosion from the steel lines
MusTang Nick The master cylinder caps will still allow some air and moisture in. especially in humid regions.
hi..can i use water as a brake fluid?..is it works?
wonder what you think of XP3 fuel additive. Just seen it last winter at a farm show.
I hope it's great, but I'm skeptical first. I'm not familiar with that one specifically. Most are garbage and are prescribed excessively to a fault. I'm Jaded.
hi,, does dot 4 with dot 5 turn to gel or bubble?
i remember ase test question.
That mental picture drives the "incompatibility" factor to memory doesn't it?
I vote for a taste test...
Hey Brian you got a SC license plate? Can send you my old one!
SO if I wanted to change over to DOT 5, all I have to do is pour it right on top of the DOT 3, and pump the brakes until I see solid dark purple from the bleeders?
Wak Job dot 5 will ruin your brake system, the rubber gaskets and lines will swell up and get spongy. It will happen pretty quickly also
If your car doesn't call for DOT 5 and didn't have dot 5 in it already it's a bad idea to try to switch to it, also from what I've read it may not need to be changed so often but it gives a bad pedal feel and doesn't work as well (won't work with ABS so well in colder climates due to the viscosity of it).
Question,
If we buy a small bottle to top off dot 3 normal type everyday use cars, the bottle that was opened should not be used anymore due to moisture in it?
Joe Soliz Technically, you shouldn't have to top off your brake fluid! As the brakes wear, it will displace fluid for the missing brake lining. If your brake fluid gets low, it means that your brake linings are worn out! Topping off the fluid is useless, as time has passed since last serviced, and you should change the linings AND FLUID! But to answer your question, NO DONT USE IT! One does not know how long it has been opened, nor how much moisture it has absorbed! Even if you opened it, and know it has had a cap on it, and for how long, it absorbs moisture over time. Now, as a side note, if you live in a dry climate, and you open a new can of brake fluid for a slight leak after a brake linings change, and you just use it temporarily until you can get the leak repaired, and you use an opened bottle for a few days, it will not harm anything.
Makes Sense, and I am understanding what it means to do a brake job & why they cost so much, if done properly. Thanks for the input.
A good rule of thumb is if the open bottle is more than 3-6 months old in a humid climate- it's deteriorated. It will still work, but not at the level it's designed to as set forth by the DOT.
I see, contamination can deteriorate the lines and thus give you a false sense of thinking that you have a bad brake master cylinder & braking system components. Thanks, learning as I grow to understand things. Thanks for the info.
Joe Soliz No, that's not the case with the moisture!! While a moisture contaminated brake fluid can certainly cause deterioration of the internal brake lines, it's not an immediate concern. Moisture dissolved in the fluid will change the boiling point of the fluid. It will not absorb as much heat, and may turn to a steam too early, and therefore not actuate the brakes when needed! Brakes change the form of movement into a heat! The friction from the linings against the rotor (or drum) produce massive amounts of heat. Some of the heat is transferred to the fluid. The fluid is a hydraulic fluid, transmitting pressure from the drivers foot, to the linings against the rotor! If there is water present, it could flash to steam, and steam makes a horrible hydraulic fluid! Or I should say, it does not make a hydraulic fluid much at all. Moisture would prevent the fluid from doing its job, causing a collision if the brakes failed, long before any corrosion would cause issues!! Beside, a vehicle from the rust belt already has corrosion issues from the outside! It's more serious than from the inside!!
So can I use Dot 5 instead of dot 4 on my bike? Or is that not advisable?
Most everyone in the know will advise you not to. Without major cleaning you'll have corrosion in the bottom due to strata and trapped moisture that will concentrate in old DOT 4 left in the system. If you want to do something challenging- learn a foreign language or help a friend to stop smoking.
long ago I read that DOT5 in better for collection cars, or don't used too often or long distances, because don't absorb water and don't manage heat too well. (sorry for bad English)
Can old brake fluid destroy seals after the car is sitting for more than 2 years?
is there a reason why people say it doesnt work for ABS cars or bikes?
Hello Brian, hope you are doing well. Can substitute DOT 5 for DOT 4 in my car? would it be advisable?
To help YOU make that decision I've shared with you the characteristics of the fluids. I don't know what your objectives or limitations are for your car so clearly I've come halfway to the center of the information gap in helping you make your best decision, but there's still an information gap of 50%. I don't know your car, your skill, tools, or circumstances. I have no idea and couldn't possibly say. Generally I would say use DOT 4 if your car calls for it. DOT 5.1 takes heat better and would enhance DOT4 and surpass slightly the characteristics of DOT 5 and is better compatible with DOT 4. Any DOT 4 left in the system will pool in the bottom along with any moisture and can cause phantom issues no matter how you bleed it unless you remove and clean your calipers, wheel cylinders etc. upside down or via a denatured alcohol flush of said parts. And there's always the likely chance it's totally fine and unnecessary to clean it all out. I've seen it go both ways. It's generally easier and safer to stick with a glycol/ether if that's what you've got. (DOT 3,4,5.1)
Madan Jain I'm a master Harley Davidson technician, I have lots of experience with both fluids. Harley used DOT 5 in most bikes up intill 2004 when it started having ABS on police bikes. DOT 5 cavitates, this is not good for a ABS event. DOT 5 can't be used for 12 to 24 hours after shipping or if you drop the bottle, it will trap air and not billed out properly.
DOT 3/4 are more forgiving and don't cavitate when cycled 5 plus more times a second like a modern ABS system.
In an older vehicle it would probably be ok, but it would require extensive flushing due to the different fluid densities.
briansmobile1 Well Sir, you did name the video "can I mix them"! Yet, you didn't explain that you shouldn't mix types together. You should say to use what your manufacturer recommends. Of flush out the old, before using a different one! Some parts don't bode well in a bath of a different type of fluid! It's walking a fine line to go swapping out the fluid without a thorough investigation!!
Tracey Allen good point, that's another important property. another example of that is in Mercedes Benz some of their vehicles had a system called SBC (sensotronic brake control). it was a fly by wire brake system that used a high pressure pump to generate pressure for each individual wheel based on wheel speed. it had a special brake fluid with anti foaming/cavitation properties and they stressed not use regular brake fluid.
Pretty sure they just wanted to sell their special more expensive brake fluid :D
So, If you mix Dot 5 and Dot 3 the Dot 3 would end up in the wheel cylinders where it would absorb moisture and the Dot 5 would be in the master cylinder. It would be kinda tricky to keep the percentage equal when bleeding the brakes. Possibly gravity bleeding would allow the Dot 3 to pass through the Dot 5.
ycmdill YOU DONT MIX THEM!!!
Sounds like you've got the concept pretty well.
You don't create DOT 4?!
3+5 = DOT8
Can i use DOT 4 LV On my Acura Tsx 2009
What is that first chart all about?
Help i can mix dot3 to dot4 brake fluid is this ok
i jave 2001explorer sport with a 4.0v6 sohc automatic tranns does the neutral safty switch on that control my reverse lights on my car
You don't have a neutral safety switch on that one nor a reverse indicator switch either. You have instead an all in one range selector switch. See how the terminology changed to indicate the situation? Use the proper term and avoid confusion. The hint all in one gives the answer yes but there is are computers involved to drive the reverse lamps. Prior experience with that system and I know that the connector for the range selector is hanging out in the breeze where things can tear loose critical wires used by the computers to tell it what gear the transmission is in. Mine was 2001 F150 Transmission 4R100 - dorman 511-101 range switch WPT806 connector, 3U2Z-14S411-FGAA wiring kit with new connector. eBay has the kit for $60, search wpt806 though.
Lee Barnes i was told by ford thats what is called i have an explorer not a 150 thanks
what is the correct one for a Honda motorcycle.
the cover of your master brake cylinder should say what type of fluid it takes, other wise go to the owners or service manual.
Why does the image keep warping? Is there a glitch in the Matrix? Sometimes you pause or zoom the video, but for much of this, it looked like you paused it, printed a picture, hung it, and then kept poking it with your finger.
Strike_Raptor explained it in the oil additive video. UA-cam auto stabilization!
what do you think about BG products?
I was required to use them when I worked at the Mazda dealership. Damage happened. I don't use it now.
is it atp 205 and stabil has the same cas # as airport fuel oxford ct
Most people would be shocked if they knew what's in most additives or name brand highly marketed products. This CAS# chemistry internet age is one heck of a rabbit hole. Freak'n awesome!
where can i buy atp205 not on line
Would to see you boil with a torch before and after adding water.
Another good video idea. The result is the boiling point goes down in a closed system based on testing done by the US DOT.
So.... that oil additive?
are we not allowed to show brand names on our youtube videos?
Is DOT 4 Ultra just as good as DOT 5.1 ?
Yes it can be. There are some DOT 4s with higher boiling temperatures than DOT 5 or 5.1. I think manufacturers are afraid to call them 5.1 just because people are confused / afraid of using the wrong 5.0 one in their cars. Make sure to look at the dry and wet boiling points. Low viscosity ones are supposed to be better if your car has ABS and you're in a cold climate.
Unless you're taking your car to the track though I don't think most people NEED a brake fluid with a really high boiling point.
how about oil and break fluid , I worked on someone’s car and found oil in the break fluid reservoir
I've heard stories of the wrong fluid in just about everything. That would be interesting.
I once put oil in the radiator in a Load Handling Truck in Afghanistan. Maintenance hated me for the rest of deployment, possibly having to do with emptying half-liter bottles to flush out such a huge system.
i've heard that can cause problems... DOH!
AvE for your car!
Is it 'bestline' Engine treatment?
Nope. You've likely never heard of it. It's parent brand has been vetted in the commercial trucking and oil drilling industries, but it's being offered to the public now too.
I had an almost religious experience back in 76 or so when the BG additive salesman drug out his ball bearing race friction machine and started sampling my Conoco oils on it - sold me 100% too. Their products worked and they were all out sold out so he had some sales even before the demo.
Cant wait now lol
Do they really put dot 3 and 4 in the same bottle - that's what I buy from auto store??
DOT 4 is legally required to perform better than DOT 3. The chemical list is similar to the same. The ratio of those ingredients is what's different. The bottle by brand is the same, but what's in the bottle is slightly different. DOT 4 has a higher boiling point by about 50°F.
Why can you buy a bottle with Dot 3 and 4 in the bottle - how does that figure - doesn't seem right - but that's the way it goes
Since they're compatible, I personally think it's just DOT 4, but it's at the same time, totally fine to go into the same brake system. Basically, they made dot 4, but want dot 3 people to buy it too.
This guy sounds like Bill Clinton with a head cold! Lmao
I guess that's not all bad.
R they your wine glasses
Well, they're my wife's. She's a saint. She'll forgive me.
The army asks for something that's hydrophobic. The hydrophobic break fluid lets water collect at the bottom and cause no end of problems.
Yep, that sounds like the military logic that I know and loathe.
since it repels water as opposed to absorbing it directly from the air there is no conduit for water to accumulate, anywhere..... it is perfect for a system that is sealed and people are not pouringwater into the brake fluid container.
@@kevinoconnell8242 perfect answer...
Why cover the brand name? I dont think UA-cam cares.