Ask others what they think you're most crazy about on the basis of very simple definitions of the self/tribe and organise/gather spectrum. That's what I've tried doing and I'm still 98% sure about my type after 2 years of doing that. XD There's not gonna be a 100% for this ever.
@@rohanrahinwal9706 I despise the thought of asking other people to define who I am. I suppose that fact by itself gives me an instant shortcut to confirm that I'm Di-dominant.
I've been going over this question a lot recently. This video helped me reach a better understanding. Scenario A: "You're famous, please cut in." "Thanks, don't mind if I do." = not selfish Scenario B: "I'm famous, you're not, so I'm cutting in." = selfish
The way I see it, if someone is Self above tribe, and they are in the position to help/satisfy their self values (fi) or principles (ti), they are more likely to be able to honor another person for exactly who they are. (the ultimate/unconditional giving) Where as lead fe and te would have a need to get feedback/ideas/something (almost like needy) to fulfil their demon fi or ti. (giving with conditions)
Relatable since he's almost the same type as me lol. I don't hesitate to take, either... like when people bring out food to share, I'm always the first one to get up and get some. Which might appear "selfish," or whatever, but just think if no one showed enthusiasm for the food someone brought? In reality the person who brought the food could be pleased that someone is actually interested :P
Weird, I'm the exact opposite. I always want to make sure everyone else got some first, but keep an eye on it to make sure I get my fair share. Are you Te dominant? Cuz i'm Ti so the difference could be in what our feelings are focusing on when they drive our thinking.
I'm so jealous of Di people, their confidence seems much more constant. It's no fun contending with the constant subconscious fear of being rejected or disliked by the tribe. Di people have this internal confidence that doesn't change as much in relation to what others think of them.
Hmmm... Constant fear of tribe hate sounds like Demon De? Especially feminine Di and lead Di. I think Jerry has such an easy time with confidence primarily cause his deciders are in the middle, if his De was any less it would be a much more intense fear but because he's balancing it with his Di it's not what he worries or cares about as much. Now wonder how he treats dealing with Oe, and we'll see his bigger demon...
@@GoatFulloBoats As a feminine lead Ti, your observation is spot on. I do not consciously sense the constant fear of tribe hate because I listen to emotions "later", so it doesn't feel intense, but I know I keep the possibility of tribe conflict firmly in mind, partly instigated by that f-Ti possibility of being wrong.
@@gretagrotto5858 My experience is that I have no problem with the tribe in other situations (INTP) but I fear having the tribe evaluate me as a person or my work. Massive source of anxiety if I'm seeing myself as lacking with reard to the thing they evalue me or my work for. (job interview with insufficient CV or showing my work at the job for instance)
@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 Im INTP and fear of the tribe is my phobia. However, I have found the times I agree with them, it takes it away. For example, if I write something, show someone and they start correcting the spelling say, I hate it (but I have also noticed a lot of types hate that!) But, if I tell myself I'm bound to have made some mistakes so fresh eyes looking at it would be helpful, then I'm now happy if they spot something. Likewise, if I break the rules (and get caught!) I put my hands up and take what's coming to me. I think I narrowed down my anxiety as someone else enforcing their will on me, or not playing the game the way I want to play it. But if I can find value in what they are doing then it flips the script. That said I still hate anything that comes with heavy judgement!
with m-Ti at the top, i will say i can stand on ideas and not care about people who disagree, especially when i know they're wrong. buuut huge caveat: when there's no Ti to stand on, when it's just feelings, i'm all over the place. i don't know how to handle it and i will bend over backwards to please people. unless i feel like they're playing/manipulating me, then i'll double down on doing whatever they're trying to get me to stop doing.
This hit home for me. A couple of years ago I had a conversation with my best friend about her never deciding where we eat. She said she wants to eat where the person she's with wants to eat because it will make them happy. I told her that it's not fair that the person she's with doesn't get to feel good about doing the thing she wants. She said that they do because she wants to do what they want to do. :P I'm Di (that's all I know for sure right now) and I chose a husband who wants me to choose everything, however, I don't want to steamroll people and he wants to make me happy so he's getting better about giving me his opinion if I ask and wait. :P
Everyone secretly wants to be confident like Jerry Seinfeld. I think he let his guard down for the guy because he told the truth in a way that made Jerry laugh. Truth and respect.
I thought I was an extrovert, particularly an ExxJ, then got typed by someone using OPS as a reference and ended up ISTP which was a surprise, but I eventually understood. But then I still feel like I resonate with ExFJ yet not entirely and honestly it’s just a fuckin paradox for me now.
Thanks so much for this video! It's really helpful to show a video example of "this is what it looks like" and then talk about it in detail after... without the "terms" Ni, Fe, etc.
I need 100 people to convince me I'm wrong once I've decided some philosophical thing, for example. But on the other hand, I'll ask people repeatedly what I should do with my life because I have no clue.
Some of it is a matter of Control, too. I have Consume first but Sleep last, so although I'm technically savior self, I'm very agreeable with everyone else's decisions. I will all day do things for myself, but trying to control situations in a "selfish" way feels horrible. The irony is that by not being selfish, we lose track of personal values, and create situations in which we're forced to be selfish. We all just have to do it, and we gotta own it.
@@wendyraye MF-Ne/Fi-CP/B(S). Means I felt responsible for writing a funny description of those parts in lay terms, but need to practice conserving energy for the sake of myself
Box of Chocolates Not sure if it’s right or not, but most of the online community is typing him as an ISTJ. Ironically, I have a similar perspective/humor to him as an ENFP. This makes since because both types are Fi and Te. I just have a less bold approach.
Lemon Sqeez Ahh. Interesting! I‘m also Te and Fi (allegedly) as a textbook ENTJ. Maybe that‘s why I can relate to the interviewer as well ... and project my own neediness into him :-)
Jerry's example is cool, on the side note squeakiness of his voice sometimes reminds me of boys during puberty and it makes my ears wanna die... Great video. (George Castanza next please.)
How to translate this personality stuff to plain english? I have this problem, where I constantly see opportunities to talk about it in everyday conversations, but nobody in everyday conversation will understand some elaborate system of personalities, and it's very confusing stuff to try to explain to someone who's not literally sitting down, waiting for your explanation. How can you go about taking some particular thing out of the knowledge that can make a good analogy for the topic at hand and say it in a way that someone who never heard of Jungian typology can understand (without tying them to a chair and trying to explain everything at once)?
Pettersony Strawman Like Personality Hacker, I prefer to use layman terms in place of the functional diction (Fe = Empathy; Fi = Authenticity, etc.). Also I find it helpful to objectively type all of your friends and family, then use them as examples to compare/contrast personality types/functions such as how Dave uses celebrities. For example, even though we are both get along well as gatherers, my ESTP brother is different from me (ENFP). I spend my time researching typology, philosophy, conspiracies (Ne) and he spends his time buying things, traveling, experiencing (Se). I am less likely to accommodate to others beliefs or needs (Fi-Te - Self over Tribe) while he is a people pleaser (Ti-Fe - Tribe over Self). When you are explaining personalities to others, it might be best to not use any letter abbreviations and simply explain the qualities that make people different. Start with the 30,000 foot view, then go into more detail if they are interested.
Pettersony Strawman I’ve learned most people don’t want to learn this stuff. And the only time they are open is when they are having an issue or crisis in their life. Then you can try to explain why you think it’s happening to them. It needs to be someone you know well so you can see the consistent patterns in their life. And I’ve learned you have to drill the information into them multiple times over 6 months to a year before they finally get it. I’m currently helping an ExxJ friend of mine with some very serious tribe issues he’s continually created for himself his whole life. I’ve known him for about 10 years so I know him very well. He’s starting to see the patterns but it’s crazy how he’ll defend himself and aggressively try to bring up reasons and counter points because he just simply doesn’t want to believe the things I tell him about himself. He doesn’t see the seemingly obvious reality of how he’s constantly helping and doing things for people, and always thinking and talking about other people and trying to make everyone happy and fix everyone’s problem. About once a month year he’ll burn out and become toxic to be around. And about once a year he’ll completely burn out and go on a destructive negative swing where he become depressed, narcissistic, and isolates himself from people. After a year of talking to him about the personality stuff he’s only now just starting to realizing it and he’s actually becoming better! It’s so rewarding to be able to help people with this information but you have to be very careful not to share the wrong information or try to change people. They have to see the patterns themselves and change very slowly over time by themselves. The scary thing is I’ve been seeing more and more negative ExxJ patterns in my own life that I can’t fix. Even though I’m aware of them it seems impossible to change. But I know I can change if I just make tiny changes over a few years of time. I’ve come a long way in the last year but I’m becoming aware of just how unaware I really am.
The only time I've been able to talk about it with others is with people I talk to regularly, and only by slowly introducing them some basic concepts...
Ti-dom selfishness: My reasons over tribe compassion (think Dominic Cummings) Fi-dom selfishness: My sense of right over tribe reasons (think John Bercow)
(so essentially the same thing, except the Ti-dom will have precise concrete reasons and ignore the pain of others calling on them, the Fi-dom will have an abstract feeling and ignore self-evident reasons contradicting it.)
Oh lol I made that comment and then a video of Seinfeld comes on, haha. I still say both Handler and Seinfeld are Ne-Fi-Te-Si. And still really enjoying vid!
that one infj guy that does skits typed himself perfectly. also, ive seen that deciders (ixxp's) tend to type themselves as deciders (if they are conscious that they are inherently selfish). I cant speak for ExxJ's since im not one.
As a lead De but type 2 enneagram, I'm always thinking of whether or not I'm being accepted or well-liked, but at the same time Its easy to accept people disliking and rejecting me. The more someone dislikes me, the more I don't care about them (they're not important and not workable). It's strange to me when people think I must be afraid of being disliked, therefore I am friendly. I'm friendly whenever I feel like it or when it's part of formalities or used to facilitate formal processes. I don't really try to be 'friendly'. I think people have a really wrong idea of Fe-De. I'm not nice to everyone and I'm not going to change my values or whatnot. My De is just accepting of people as they are and I'm fine with people expressing almost anything until they put me in a spot where I have to go against my Ti. I don't seek to change people to suit me, but for intimate friends, I will display my reasons and negotiate with them if they are conflicting with my Ti. If they were being horrible, I still won't try to change them or enlighten them. It's their choice. I see myself as an observer that watches everyone make their choices as they wish to, and those who make bad choices will suffer for it and I will still not try to change them unless they mattered to me on a personal level and sought after me for my advice.
The most self centered people I've met are the ones who will ask you a question about yourself, but then quickly cut you off to ask another question. They don't care about the answer. It's a way to keep the attention on themselves, without the guilt of being a dick.
do some types have a better ability at typing themselves? For example I type myself as an ISTP, and everyone agrees with it. I would think that thinking types, especially iT that are also Se would have the ability to both gather the facts, and logically and objectivly type themselves.
« No one feels good having a total stranger touch them » Weeeeelllllllllll Also- yeah, that’s why shaking hands and touching is (or was) built into meeting new people and getting to know others, so you wouldn’t feel as much like total strangers anymore
It might be off on a bit of a tangent, but isn't it unhealthy to not be self above tribe? Over identification with tribe mentalities is equivalent to sacrificing yourself for ideas and behaviors that aren't your own, which literally creates the divisions we see socially and politically, from xenophobia to racism to war. Developing the individual should be a fundamental requisite of education, particularly in a world dominated by extroverted sensing. Anyone else notice that psychology is conspicuously absent from today's education, especially considering what it tells us about the unconscious forces driving human behavior and societies? Is it any wonder the world is the pathologically insane shit show it is today? As an INFP, I consider the development of the individual to be the most profoundly important way to help the tribe, in turn allowing the individual, and by extension the tribe, to grow, both spiritually and existentially.
@@nehasehgal2537 I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying the healthiest way to come together is as independent, self aware, critically thinking individuals. We've transcended cultural connectedness and we're in a sort of no mans land of unfettered ego, and we have to transcend that as well in order to come together in a truly conscious way for the first time in known history. Historically, culture reflects a collective cohesion, and our consciousness has changed drastically, so today's culture fails to really serve that purpose anymore. Consumer culture and the Americanization of the world has probably got a lot to do with that, and looking at the world, it's power struggles and corruption, whatever we do we have to do in a consciously healthy way with our collective human interests in mind. An enlightened way so to speak, and fundamental to that is a highly developed individual. Another thing I've learned is that the more self aware and developed the individual, the less shit they feel they need to own, and tell me that level of narcissism and emotional immaturity isn't at the root of the greed and domination in the world?
So are self above tribe people using selfishness in a savior state? I consider myself a selfish person. I almost always know what I want, but I notice that I will almost manipulate the situation to make it what other people want, too. Hard to discern whether this makes me self above tribe or not :/ it’s like I have selfish motives, but pull it off to make it not seem so
Could be that, but I've also seen pragmatic ENTJs and Se/Te ESFPs ask the tribe first. And what about INFPs? Most INFPs I know seem to always know their self values perfectly and hardly ever change them, despite being all in for "doing the right thing" and being very people focused.
I think everyone that has a healthy way of thinking, will agree that in the second clip this *whatever his name is* guy shows signs of selfishness and possibly narcissism.
If my type is upside down I would be happy (if we agree on definition) but no just no. Low self awareness or a particular period of life or doesn’t know the differences between seeking and default mode. Btw Jerry Seinfeld is funny asf and I relate to that (lol) even if I’m not that extreme in terms of showing how selfish I am. Maybe he is Ni-Fe because of how extreme he is (seeking) but no because you see on his face how confortable and natural it is for him.
@Cliven Longsight Oh Jesus, not all NTs are scientific. Ti is analysis, but its sphere of interest can be literally anything. Seinfeld's interests lie in people and social norms of behavior, but he uses his Ti to analyse them. He doesn't attach his emotions to this judgments like Fi dom would. He's just TiNe curious.
@Cliven Longsight Yes, perhaps you're right. Although you seem to be a little Ti biased. I can see how INTP would probably be more careful with Fe, since it is weak but conscious, while INFP flat out ignores Fe sometimes like Seinfeld does.
@Cliven Longsight It's possible, we can only guess. He seems more on the introverted side to me, but it's hard to tell with celebrities. It's not a typical life style.
@Cliven Longsight What would NiTi make you then? I'm not so familiar with DSP system of typing. 7th sloth Fi means you'r either ENTP or ESTP. Yes, the phrase holds truth, but it's not like I have to remind myself to be true to my dreams and wants - they are always there. Making them a reality is a whole other shebang though. Yes, my Fi is not for others to criticize and examine, because it only resonates with me, and it's not important what others think of it. Yes, I can hold opposing views, but my actions are usually pragmatical and in the moment.
Mr. Spaghetti i also typed him as NiTi watching the comedians in cars getting coffee. He just has so much observational humor that fits Ni rather than Si
@Cliven Longsight They're typing from their own system with its own definitions. The system is subjective, the typing is objective (ie comes from outside the person, not a self-report)
@Cliven Longsight You're trying to use PH's system to clarify OPS. Let's focus on the latter. As a double-decider, Jerry has been doing feminine Fe most of his life, just less than his savior Ti. We don't see it as much as others, which is expressed through his animal stack (with both B and P) at three bottom.
Typing myself is hard, I see all the patterns depending on how I think about them at the time I'm looking.
Ask others what they think you're most crazy about on the basis of very simple definitions of the self/tribe and organise/gather spectrum. That's what I've tried doing and I'm still 98% sure about my type after 2 years of doing that. XD There's not gonna be a 100% for this ever.
You're an Fi dom if that's the case. Fi absorbs towards itself what it is able to consume.
That's definitely a personality trait.
@@rohanrahinwal9706 I despise the thought of asking other people to define who I am. I suppose that fact by itself gives me an instant shortcut to confirm that I'm Di-dominant.
@@SimpleAmadeus could be that you have Di demon
I've been going over this question a lot recently. This video helped me reach a better understanding.
Scenario A:
"You're famous, please cut in."
"Thanks, don't mind if I do."
= not selfish
Scenario B:
"I'm famous, you're not, so I'm cutting in."
= selfish
The way I see it, if someone is Self above tribe, and they are in the position to help/satisfy their self values (fi) or principles (ti), they are more likely to be able to honor another person for exactly who they are. (the ultimate/unconditional giving)
Where as lead fe and te would have a need to get feedback/ideas/something (almost like needy) to fulfil their demon fi or ti. (giving with conditions)
Relatable since he's almost the same type as me lol. I don't hesitate to take, either... like when people bring out food to share, I'm always the first one to get up and get some. Which might appear "selfish," or whatever, but just think if no one showed enthusiasm for the food someone brought? In reality the person who brought the food could be pleased that someone is actually interested :P
Which type is him?
@@dreamy4868 INTJ I think. But I think I also heard INFJ
Weird, I'm the exact opposite. I always want to make sure everyone else got some first, but keep an eye on it to make sure I get my fair share. Are you Te dominant? Cuz i'm Ti so the difference could be in what our feelings are focusing on when they drive our thinking.
@@marcialabrahantes3369 But INTJ is Tribe above self, no? If Te is above Fi? Or am I getting that wrong?
@@BeinIan Te is my third function... Savior Ni/Fi
I'm so jealous of Di people, their confidence seems much more constant. It's no fun contending with the constant subconscious fear of being rejected or disliked by the tribe. Di people have this internal confidence that doesn't change as much in relation to what others think of them.
Hmmm... Constant fear of tribe hate sounds like Demon De? Especially feminine Di and lead Di. I think Jerry has such an easy time with confidence primarily cause his deciders are in the middle, if his De was any less it would be a much more intense fear but because he's balancing it with his Di it's not what he worries or cares about as much. Now wonder how he treats dealing with Oe, and we'll see his bigger demon...
@@GoatFulloBoats As a feminine lead Ti, your observation is spot on. I do not consciously sense the constant fear of tribe hate because I listen to emotions "later", so it doesn't feel intense, but I know I keep the possibility of tribe conflict firmly in mind, partly instigated by that f-Ti possibility of being wrong.
@@gretagrotto5858 My experience is that I have no problem with the tribe in other situations (INTP) but I fear having the tribe evaluate me as a person or my work. Massive source of anxiety if I'm seeing myself as lacking with reard to the thing they evalue me or my work for. (job interview with insufficient CV or showing my work at the job for instance)
@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 Im INTP and fear of the tribe is my phobia. However, I have found the times I agree with them, it takes it away.
For example, if I write something, show someone and they start correcting the spelling say, I hate it (but I have also noticed a lot of types hate that!) But, if I tell myself I'm bound to have made some mistakes so fresh eyes looking at it would be helpful, then I'm now happy if they spot something.
Likewise, if I break the rules (and get caught!) I put my hands up and take what's coming to me.
I think I narrowed down my anxiety as someone else enforcing their will on me, or not playing the game the way I want to play it. But if I can find value in what they are doing then it flips the script. That said I still hate anything that comes with heavy judgement!
with m-Ti at the top, i will say i can stand on ideas and not care about people who disagree, especially when i know they're wrong. buuut huge caveat: when there's no Ti to stand on, when it's just feelings, i'm all over the place. i don't know how to handle it and i will bend over backwards to please people. unless i feel like they're playing/manipulating me, then i'll double down on doing whatever they're trying to get me to stop doing.
This hit home for me. A couple of years ago I had a conversation with my best friend about her never deciding where we eat. She said she wants to eat where the person she's with wants to eat because it will make them happy. I told her that it's not fair that the person she's with doesn't get to feel good about doing the thing she wants. She said that they do because she wants to do what they want to do. :P I'm Di (that's all I know for sure right now) and I chose a husband who wants me to choose everything, however, I don't want to steamroll people and he wants to make me happy so he's getting better about giving me his opinion if I ask and wait. :P
Everyone secretly wants to be confident like Jerry Seinfeld. I think he let his guard down for the guy because he told the truth in a way that made Jerry laugh. Truth and respect.
I thought I was an extrovert, particularly an ExxJ, then got typed by someone using OPS as a reference and ended up ISTP which was a surprise, but I eventually understood. But then I still feel like I resonate with ExFJ yet not entirely and honestly it’s just a fuckin paradox for me now.
Signing up to your classes and watching these has been such a great investment lol
You are definitely onto something...
Thanks so much for this video! It's really helpful to show a video example of "this is what it looks like" and then talk about it in detail after... without the "terms" Ni, Fe, etc.
I feel so sorry for Kesha. 😭
Jeffrey Sherman Lol “Nnno thanks.”
I feel bad for him because he had to say no more than once.
I need 100 people to convince me I'm wrong once I've decided some philosophical thing, for example. But on the other hand, I'll ask people repeatedly what I should do with my life because I have no clue.
Ne?
"That could be problematic *chuckle*" Nod nod wink wink Amy Schumer's handler just called
Some of it is a matter of Control, too. I have Consume first but Sleep last, so although I'm technically savior self, I'm very agreeable with everyone else's decisions. I will all day do things for myself, but trying to control situations in a "selfish" way feels horrible. The irony is that by not being selfish, we lose track of personal values, and create situations in which we're forced to be selfish. We all just have to do it, and we gotta own it.
&dylonias what is your type? I’m curious. Need information!:)
@@wendyraye MF-Ne/Fi-CP/B(S). Means I felt responsible for writing a funny description of those parts in lay terms, but need to practice conserving energy for the sake of myself
@@dylonias what the fuck is that thing
I am glad that I joined the class, having all the context helps now when I watch the vids here. I recommend everyone sign up ^_^
First!!! Love how Jerry makes the interviewer feel uncomfortable. Probably a needy E...J 😂
Box of Chocolates Not sure if it’s right or not, but most of the online community is typing him as an ISTJ. Ironically, I have a similar perspective/humor to him as an ENFP. This makes since because both types are Fi and Te. I just have a less bold approach.
Lemon Sqeez Ahh. Interesting! I‘m also Te and Fi (allegedly) as a textbook ENTJ. Maybe that‘s why I can relate to the interviewer as well ... and project my own neediness into him :-)
@@LemonMeIon He's ENFP. We use the same functions as you guys, but in opposite order. :)
My left ear loved that last clip 🤪
Jerry's example is cool, on the side note squeakiness of his voice sometimes reminds me of boys during puberty and it makes my ears wanna die... Great video.
(George Castanza next please.)
Funnily enough, I've found De people to be more selfish and Di people to care a lot about that small De...
How to translate this personality stuff to plain english?
I have this problem, where I constantly see opportunities to talk about it in everyday conversations, but nobody in everyday conversation will understand some elaborate system of personalities, and it's very confusing stuff to try to explain to someone who's not literally sitting down, waiting for your explanation. How can you go about taking some particular thing out of the knowledge that can make a good analogy for the topic at hand and say it in a way that someone who never heard of Jungian typology can understand (without tying them to a chair and trying to explain everything at once)?
Pettersony Strawman Like Personality Hacker, I prefer to use layman terms in place of the functional diction (Fe = Empathy; Fi = Authenticity, etc.). Also I find it helpful to objectively type all of your friends and family, then use them as examples to compare/contrast personality types/functions such as how Dave uses celebrities.
For example, even though we are both get along well as gatherers, my ESTP brother is different from me (ENFP). I spend my time researching typology, philosophy, conspiracies (Ne) and he spends his time buying things, traveling, experiencing (Se). I am less likely to accommodate to others beliefs or needs (Fi-Te - Self over Tribe) while he is a people pleaser (Ti-Fe - Tribe over Self).
When you are explaining personalities to others, it might be best to not use any letter abbreviations and simply explain the qualities that make people different. Start with the 30,000 foot view, then go into more detail if they are interested.
Lemon Sqeez what he said!!!
Pettersony Strawman I’ve learned most people don’t want to learn this stuff. And the only time they are open is when they are having an issue or crisis in their life. Then you can try to explain why you think it’s happening to them. It needs to be someone you know well so you can see the consistent patterns in their life. And I’ve learned you have to drill the information into them multiple times over 6 months to a year before they finally get it. I’m currently helping an ExxJ friend of mine with some very serious tribe issues he’s continually created for himself his whole life. I’ve known him for about 10 years so I know him very well. He’s starting to see the patterns but it’s crazy how he’ll defend himself and aggressively try to bring up reasons and counter points because he just simply doesn’t want to believe the things I tell him about himself. He doesn’t see the seemingly obvious reality of how he’s constantly helping and doing things for people, and always thinking and talking about other people and trying to make everyone happy and fix everyone’s problem. About once a month year he’ll burn out and become toxic to be around. And about once a year he’ll completely burn out and go on a destructive negative swing where he become depressed, narcissistic, and isolates himself from people. After a year of talking to him about the personality stuff he’s only now just starting to realizing it and he’s actually becoming better! It’s so rewarding to be able to help people with this information but you have to be very careful not to share the wrong information or try to change people. They have to see the patterns themselves and change very slowly over time by themselves. The scary thing is I’ve been seeing more and more negative ExxJ patterns in my own life that I can’t fix. Even though I’m aware of them it seems impossible to change. But I know I can change if I just make tiny changes over a few years of time. I’ve come a long way in the last year but I’m becoming aware of just how unaware I really am.
The only time I've been able to talk about it with others is with people I talk to regularly, and only by slowly introducing them some basic concepts...
Ti-dom selfishness: My reasons over tribe compassion (think Dominic Cummings)
Fi-dom selfishness: My sense of right over tribe reasons (think John Bercow)
(so essentially the same thing, except the Ti-dom will have precise concrete reasons and ignore the pain of others calling on them, the Fi-dom will have an abstract feeling and ignore self-evident reasons contradicting it.)
going to that castle in lockdown lol
Thank you for making this one!
Oh lol I made that comment and then a video of Seinfeld comes on, haha. I still say both Handler and Seinfeld are Ne-Fi-Te-Si. And still really enjoying vid!
You had me at, "You hate everybody."
Watch Jerry's speech at the SAG award ceremony (I believe it was) and you'll see he gets equal joy in taking people down a peg when it's needed.
Thanks for covering this stuff correctly guys
You gotta build self to be able to serve tribe-like oxygen masks on the plane
Exactly what I always point out to other Fe users( I understood this really early so it didn't become a habit... lucky me ig)
Loved that Jerry clip, this was great
Why do they keep thinking that somehow *everyone* types themself incorrectly? It's just such a false assumption..
that one infj guy that does skits typed himself perfectly. also, ive seen that deciders (ixxp's) tend to type themselves as deciders (if they are conscious that they are inherently selfish). I cant speak for ExxJ's since im not one.
As a lead De but type 2 enneagram, I'm always thinking of whether or not I'm being accepted or well-liked, but at the same time Its easy to accept people disliking and rejecting me. The more someone dislikes me, the more I don't care about them (they're not important and not workable). It's strange to me when people think I must be afraid of being disliked, therefore I am friendly. I'm friendly whenever I feel like it or when it's part of formalities or used to facilitate formal processes. I don't really try to be 'friendly'. I think people have a really wrong idea of Fe-De. I'm not nice to everyone and I'm not going to change my values or whatnot. My De is just accepting of people as they are and I'm fine with people expressing almost anything until they put me in a spot where I have to go against my Ti. I don't seek to change people to suit me, but for intimate friends, I will display my reasons and negotiate with them if they are conflicting with my Ti. If they were being horrible, I still won't try to change them or enlighten them. It's their choice. I see myself as an observer that watches everyone make their choices as they wish to, and those who make bad choices will suffer for it and I will still not try to change them unless they mattered to me on a personal level and sought after me for my advice.
The most self centered people I've met are the ones who will ask you a question about yourself, but then quickly cut you off to ask another question. They don't care about the answer. It's a way to keep the attention on themselves, without the guilt of being a dick.
As a savior F decider: That last clip made me cringe sooo hard
do some types have a better ability at typing themselves? For example I type myself as an ISTP, and everyone agrees with it. I would think that thinking types, especially iT that are also Se would have the ability to both gather the facts, and logically and objectivly type themselves.
the STP/NFJ quadra. Aka poeple who have Ni Se Ti Fe in whatever order, are considered to be the best at typing poeple.
@@ladybluebell1598 Fe Ti
I didn’t realize how much I related to Jerry. 😄
« No one feels good having a total stranger touch them »
Weeeeelllllllllll
Also- yeah, that’s why shaking hands and touching is (or was) built into meeting new people and getting to know others, so you wouldn’t feel as much like total strangers anymore
It might be off on a bit of a tangent, but isn't it unhealthy to not be self above tribe? Over identification with tribe mentalities is equivalent to sacrificing yourself for ideas and behaviors that aren't your own, which literally creates the divisions we see socially and politically, from xenophobia to racism to war. Developing the individual should be a fundamental requisite of education, particularly in a world dominated by extroverted sensing. Anyone else notice that psychology is conspicuously absent from today's education, especially considering what it tells us about the unconscious forces driving human behavior and societies? Is it any wonder the world is the pathologically insane shit show it is today? As an INFP, I consider the development of the individual to be the most profoundly important way to help the tribe, in turn allowing the individual, and by extension the tribe, to grow, both spiritually and existentially.
Robert Dabob That’s true. Wow I actually never thought of that.
Hmmm.. Actually I don't think that's that right...
Our species is about survival and when we are together we survive a little better
@@nehasehgal2537 I don't disagree with that, I'm just saying the healthiest way to come together is as independent, self aware, critically thinking individuals. We've transcended cultural connectedness and we're in a sort of no mans land of unfettered ego, and we have to transcend that as well in order to come together in a truly conscious way for the first time in known history. Historically, culture reflects a collective cohesion, and our consciousness has changed drastically, so today's culture fails to really serve that purpose anymore. Consumer culture and the Americanization of the world has probably got a lot to do with that, and looking at the world, it's power struggles and corruption, whatever we do we have to do in a consciously healthy way with our collective human interests in mind. An enlightened way so to speak, and fundamental to that is a highly developed individual.
Another thing I've learned is that the more self aware and developed the individual, the less shit they feel they need to own, and tell me that level of narcissism and emotional immaturity isn't at the root of the greed and domination in the world?
Whats Jerry's type?
Why do they call them Di and De instead of Fi and Fe?
De is any extroverted decider, so either Te or Fe. Same goes for Di, it's either Fi or Ti.
so what is his type?
So are self above tribe people using selfishness in a savior state?
I consider myself a selfish person. I almost always know what I want, but I notice that I will almost manipulate the situation to make it what other people want, too. Hard to discern whether this makes me self above tribe or not :/ it’s like I have selfish motives, but pull it off to make it not seem so
They just mean that selfishness is when your deciders are unbalanced, as there are Di and De ways to be selfish
I hate that I consider the tribe more than myself. It's off balance sometimes.
Pragmatic is self above tribe so sp and NTs the most are like that
Could be that, but I've also seen pragmatic ENTJs and Se/Te ESFPs ask the tribe first. And what about INFPs? Most INFPs I know seem to always know their self values perfectly and hardly ever change them, despite being all in for "doing the right thing" and being very people focused.
@@someonerandom713 INFPs are not pragmatic. They are cooperative and afiliative. But agreed, SPs and NTs are pragmatic.
@@spannycat2 This comment of mine is over two years old, I have come to completely disagree with CSJ.
I appreciate a lot of his perspectives but a few here and there are like, wow that’s awkward!
Is Gerry intp?
I think everyone that has a healthy way of thinking, will agree that in the second clip this *whatever his name is* guy shows signs of selfishness and possibly narcissism.
If my type is upside down I would be happy (if we agree on definition) but no just no. Low self awareness or a particular period of life or doesn’t know the differences between seeking and default mode. Btw Jerry Seinfeld is funny asf and I relate to that (lol) even if I’m not that extreme in terms of showing how selfish I am. Maybe he is Ni-Fe because of how extreme he is (seeking) but no because you see on his face how confortable and natural it is for him.
I am curious what Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte's type. He is an enigma. I hope you can type him.
I think he is a highly evolved ne te Enfp..
The wisdom, jokes, charisma, ideals, leadership, and sleep patterns and yolo living..
I think he is an Enfp, ne te
So what is he?
Self-ish
Involving self.
Selfish gets a bad rap and meaning. It's not necessarily.
Seinfeld INTP you think?
@Cliven Longsight Oh Jesus, not all NTs are scientific. Ti is analysis, but its sphere of interest can be literally anything. Seinfeld's interests lie in people and social norms of behavior, but he uses his Ti to analyse them. He doesn't attach his emotions to this judgments like Fi dom would. He's just TiNe curious.
@Cliven Longsight Yes, perhaps you're right. Although you seem to be a little Ti biased. I can see how INTP would probably be more careful with Fe, since it is weak but conscious, while INFP flat out ignores Fe sometimes like Seinfeld does.
@Cliven Longsight It's possible, we can only guess. He seems more on the introverted side to me, but it's hard to tell with celebrities. It's not a typical life style.
@Cliven Longsight Hey, what's your type? I'm ISFP.
@Cliven Longsight What would NiTi make you then? I'm not so familiar with DSP system of typing. 7th sloth Fi means you'r either ENTP or ESTP. Yes, the phrase holds truth, but it's not like I have to remind myself to be true to my dreams and wants - they are always there. Making them a reality is a whole other shebang though. Yes, my Fi is not for others to criticize and examine, because it only resonates with me, and it's not important what others think of it. Yes, I can hold opposing views, but my actions are usually pragmatical and in the moment.
What type is Jerry?
Mr. Spaghetti i also typed him as NiTi watching the comedians in cars getting coffee. He just has so much observational humor that fits Ni rather than Si
@Cliven Longsight That's his type. They did him in their class last week.
@Cliven Longsight He wouldn't be able to do all that he has if he never got both of his demons in check
@Cliven Longsight They're typing from their own system with its own definitions. The system is subjective, the typing is objective (ie comes from outside the person, not a self-report)
@Cliven Longsight You're trying to use PH's system to clarify OPS. Let's focus on the latter. As a double-decider, Jerry has been doing feminine Fe most of his life, just less than his savior Ti. We don't see it as much as others, which is expressed through his animal stack (with both B and P) at three bottom.
Lol I'm the same type as that guy
@Mr. Spaghetti ??? What are you trying to say here
And what’s your type?
Self above tribe is far more selfish!
By the way I dont
that last clip was not cool bro! a hug doesn't harm u!
Ironic since Kesha is an ESFP