I really enjoyed this edition of Type 40 more than most as it served as a form of therapy for me. It was very cathartic, so thank you. You may remember from my many rants I was very much the optimist about this Season ( thank you all for being so welcoming in your responses). Until now I've very much been with Dan and his enduring and impressive optimism. Now I find myself siding with Simon, Sarah ( who I have had some lovely chats with) and omnipresent RetroDoc:Gary ( our paths have crossed on several forums, his articulate and witty comments are always welcome). Thank you all👍 As a piece of fluff this was fun....but COME ON ! The whole Season was building up to THIS? A SPOON saves the Universe? Intelligent Rope? You can now summon the TARDIS with a whistle like a dog! Once they killed off major characters with Magic Dust there was ZERO suspense. Clearly RTD was going to hit the RESET button AGAIN. I'm assuming this has also repaired the damage caused by The Flux? The revelation of Ruby's Mum was so anticlimactic. Just a random Mum dropping off a newborn at a church RTD just wrote a big budget Soap Opera. To top it all off Mrs Flood is Mary Poppins. To quote my Mum when I was a naughty child " I'm not angry, just very disappointed".
That's certainly true for us this weekend. It's strange and unfortunate to feel so disappointed, after a week of genuine renewed appetite for the season in my case. We have to assume and read in, so much when it comes to this silly, underfed story.
Always a great watch, Dan and thanks to everyone for giving up their time. Simon and Problem Being are absolutely spot on. At this point, disney Doccy Who is its own thing. I hope those who love it get their own 40/50/60 years of wonderful stories. I'm happy with the old stuff and Ecclestone.
Again: Disney do not commission Doctor Who. Disney do not own Doctor Who. The continuation of Doctor Who does not depend on Disney. Thanks for watching Baz. This finale pleased no one on our panel, to one extent or another. We try to represent as much variety as we can. But this weekend, I think we are all justified in our disappointment.
I think the mother reveal has proven to be the core of one of the biggest criticisms of the new era. It's focus on conveying positive messaging instead of writing good stories. I am expecting at some point Russell to come out and berate the audience for anticipating a big reveal of a past character. Because how dare we be unhappy with the reveal of an ordinary woman, think about all the people in the world who have similar reunions to Ruby in this episode. He baited us for 7 months, he was the one who created this mystical story arc, but he will ultimately see us as the problem at our reactions because that is the kind of man he has become. 😅Sorry I have strong feelings on this like those of you on the panel. It's been one thing after another since Davros.
I did enjoy the episode but afterwards I felt disappointed and underwhelmed that ruby’s mother was just an ordinary woman and Sutekh was defeated by a rope. I loved Mel in these episodes, I would too also like to see bonnie Langford back full time!
As I asked in the live chat, isn't Ncuti's TARDIS the copy thwacked out of the side of the real one with his Looney Tunes mallet? So was Sutekh also a copy and the real one is still humping Tennant's in his back garden? It's indicative of Russell's lazy writing that he creates a problem, just to have the spectacle of the moment, and completely fails to contemplate the likely consequences. Where is the 14th Doctor, why isn't he advising UNIT, and why isn't Sutekh attached to his TARDIS, the real TARDIS, instead? On the plus side, the bi-generation is one reason that I have failed to be convinced that Ncuti is the Doctor. The previous Doctor wasn't seen to die, reborn in a new body, that baton being passed from one to the next, in a direct line from William Hartnell's First Doctor. Instead, the Doctor gave birth to a junior version, a little like Oddbod in Carry On Screaming. And this Doctor Jnr has his own copy of the TARDIS, but has seemingly inherited none of the characteristics that made the Doctor the Doctor. And I think that is why I wasn't bothered by Ncuti's Doctor kissing Rogue, because I don't see Ncuti as the Doctor, I see him as Ncuti. He's not the same person we met in that junkyard in Totter's Lane; he's someone else, who likes to dance in nightclubs and has magic gloves among his extensive wardrobe. He's a fake Doctor in a fake TARDIS in a fake universe. His adventures are no more canonical than those of the Second Doctor in TV Comic with John and Gillian. - Go on, Russell, bring back the Trods! You know you want to.
I loved the TV Comic, Crimpleen - I remember once that the Second Doctor yelled "Die, Cyberman, die!" or words to that effect, in one of his comics. I agree with you that by now it's clear the bi-generation was a colossally misjudged concept, and all the questions at the start of your comment show that RTD seems to be filming first draft outlines of scripts, without any feedback or criticism from his sycophants.
Well said! It’s pointless trying to make sense of this finale. RTD didn’t so why should we😊 Awful on an Epic scale. Even a harsh critic like me was astonished on how bad it was. Too flabbergasted to even bother trying to analyse the trash I just witnessed😮
It was awful on an Epic Scale. I never thought RTD could stick the landing but even harsh critics like me are astounded on how bad it was. He subverted my expectations on how terrible he could write. Nothing matters anymore. Magic is magic and how do you explain magic. Read JK Rowling 😊 It takes a lot of World Building to make Harry Potter work. She’s a genius and RTD is now just phoning it in. The speed on how he wrote so many episodes so quickly can now be explained. He just doesn’t care anymore. Take the money and run.
He MAYBE would've pulled off a story this ambitious with three-parts. But I'm still not convinced that would've been enough. These stakes and the adversary was so massive. This has been a real missed opportunity.
With people loving this finale, do these people not need a consistent plot. I just don't understand how finale can have so many plot holes failing after previous cliff hanger to answer basic questions with a shoal of red herrings
Great Stream as always! Unfortunately I had to drop out early due to work. Today as of writing this comment is my birthday and I forgot to mention it in the chat. Again Fantastic Stream!!!
What the hell was that ending in last night's episode? I thought am I watching "Doctor Who" or "Home and Away" because that scene with Ruby's mum felt like i was watching a completely different show it dragged far too long and it was so cringey I am so fed up of kitchen sink dramas with companions and their family issues we've been having this same old crap since it's return in 2005 it's built all this hype since christmas of who her mother is everyone thinking she's someone special possibly an alien but no it turns out to just be the mother a regular person and an abandoned regular child I mean seriously how lazy can the writing get? It was a real cop out i just wish they stop focusing on companions and their private lives and just get on with space adventures in the TARDIS fighting monsters. Sutekh the most powerful being of all the gods last or it's race and he gets easily defeated by a rope oh give me a break I hate so say this and I apologise for coming on so strongly negative but I was really disappointed with last night's episode but I'm not surprised either RTD use ti be such a great writer in his first run but now he's become a real hack lately i never felt this way before but I'm just about ready for a brand new showrunner at this point this entire season apart from 3 episodes which I did enjoy this was garbage this did not feel like Dr. Who at all also did I hear right Sutekh's been with the TARDIS this whole time since the events of "Pyramids of Mars" that made no sense either. I'm also tired of seeing Ncuti's Doctor cry why can't he just be an alien? or am i just old? 😅.
Nothing to apologize for, Joshua; a lot of the panel echoed your comments about the laziness of the writing and the need for real change going forward.
I corrected predicted last week that this could never be worthy of Pyramids of Mars but after a reasonably decent first episode this was still a disappointment. I won't say a massive disappointment because it no longer feels like I'm watching Doctor Who. Where was Sutekh the destroyer? I saw some travesty, Sutekh the XL Bully, being dragged to his demise with a rope!!! I will probably watch the Christmas episode because Steven Moffat has said it is possibly the last DW he will ever write so I'll give that a go....but after that... I think after this series the Doctor Who I knew and loved is well and truly dead and episodes like Rogue were simply defecating on the grave.
Timeless child or female Doctor aside Dan atleast Chibnall didn't feel the need to tell us or explain what the plot is he let fans theorise for themselves he kept characters dead he was doing something different with the show and he got the villains done right he didn't make companions super special or important and he didn't tell fans to f--- off like Russell has, with RTD he's doing none of those and he is more patronising now than Chibnall was so I agree with Simon and Problembeing I would much rather rewatch the Jodie era than this current iteration atleast it was the last piece of proper full british BBC Dr. Who even those bad stories were slightly better than this Disney rubbish because of RTD's attitude towards old fans the man's turned into a complete narcissist and that is why the show is getting low ratings he's repeating the same thing he's done before and most people are fed up with it he's not progressing the show anyway that's just my opinion.
Joshua, why is it on every comment you make it's about Jodie and Chibnall? haha Chibnall NEVER got villains right. Not once. And whilst I respect Simon and Lee's opinions? I'd say the majority do believe as I do. Despite it's flaws, the season has pissed all over anything that twosome were ever involved with. Keep banging the drum, if you like. You're entitled to your view too. But no: in my opinion Chibnall was SHIT and Whittaker is a JOKE. I will never change my mind on this. Whereas RTD is simply not as his best and Gatwa is variable.
@@type40doctorwhorespectfully I have to disagree. It’s the intent. Chibnall was incompetent yes but he wasn’t malicious. RTD is. Jodie isn’t the Doctor. She played a poor hybrid of Tennant and Smith. But Ncuti isn’t the Doctor either. He’s just playing himself. I would rather watch Kerblam or The Power of the Doctor than ever been tempted to watch this crap. Whatever Chibnall’s flaws and there’s stuff I’ll never forgive him for, I believe he WAS trying to course correct with Flux but it was too little, too late. He wasn’t talented enough to do it. I do however think that his heart was in the right place with The Power of the Doctor and as we know that was intended to be the 60th anniversary special. It’s actually superior to any of the three specials that RTD came up with for the 60th and I don’t say that lightly. There’s nothing insidious in it, just a few scenes with a woman cosplaying as the Doctor and a plank! Empire of Death is up there with Orphan 55. It’s so completely beyond anything Doctor Who, all we can do is point and laugh at its stupidity and put it in the bin. In fact it’s arguably even worse. We knew what we were getting with a writer as talentless as Ed Hime. He should never have been allowed to return after It Takes You Away. RTD was the superior writer and has gaslighted the poor dwindling remaining fans all series but especially with The Legend of Ruby Sunday and then tricked them into thinking they were going to be watching something good. Then mock you for thinking that Ruby’s parentage was important. If that isn’t gaslighting then I don’t know what is. The dangling of the carrot of Susan WAS cruel. There’s no other word for it. Inexcusable.
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Simon, Charlotte, Jon, James, Jack, Lee and Gary. Was it Jane Tranter or Julie Gardner who, in RTD's Imagine programme last year, referred to 1980s Doctor Who as "a pastiche of entertainment"? I didn't know what that meant exactly until I saw the episodes comprising this year's series. Empire of Death was one of the worst, if not the worst because it held such potential, so confidently thrown away by Russell T Davies in favour of putting yet another of his first drafts onto the screen. Will I watch the Christmas special and Season Two? That all depends on the announcements that are made between now and December. If it is announced that there is to be a third series, once again helmed by Russell T Davies and starring Ncuti Gatwa, then I will stop watching until at least one of them is replaced. If it is announced that there isn't to be a third series, or that there is but without either of them involved, then I will watch the nine episodes that are already filmed, hoping for better on the other side. But come what may, I shall always watch Type40Live.
They rarely formally announce until they must. Or until a window where the IP goes quiet. It keeps the series in the news cycle to announce a recommission, or a new cast member joining etc. when there's not already a series on. As it gets lost in the shuffle. There's several reasons. We told our viewers Series 13 was going to be 6 episodes and would air in late Autumn 2021, over a year before it screened and 10 months before the BBC announced it. For example.
Great show as always everyone. Good points made by everyone. But can I ask, is it me or am I missing something? Episodes like Rogue, inspired by Bridgeton, name checked several times in the episode, but hasn’t Bridgeton got quite a few sex scenes in? Why is an adult show being mentioned loads of times in a family show? The character or Maestro, sucking her wand, isn’t that too far for a family show. I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m feeling quite uncomfortable over some of the episodes this series!!
I'm not 100% comfy with that either. It's one thing to talk about Harry Potter books, but a series aimed squarely at adults is indeed a strange reference point.
Great show everyone. This quote from Russell explains very well, why I think many older fans can't take to Ncuti's version of the Doctor.. '... In the past, he added, the Doctor “has been marvelously inexpressive and enigmatic and alien, and great actors have done that very well.” But in 2024, “I want a young audience watching, and they talk about their emotions, express their emotions in a healthy way.” Then, “along came Ncuti, who is one of those actors who pour with feeling,” Davies said. “When he is sad, tears pour from his eyes; when he is happy, that smile lights up the universe.” With this current team I really don't think we'll see The Doctor's 'alien side' again, no matter who's in the role. OK, with my conspiracy hat firmly on, do you think, considering the rumours that Millie was sacked, that Russell maybe rewrote who Ruby's mother was? Could her mother have originally been another mystery box to be taken into series 2? I found it to be a dreadful episode, the way Sutekh was handled and killed off, very much reminded me of Palpatine's pointless return and demise under Disney.
Had been an overly disappointing season for me, a a few poor episodes, a couple ok, and a couple good. The finale was very important, last weeks episode was the highlight of the season. Unfortunately for me the finale massively disappointed along with 90% of the audience. I have to say the mother reveal was absolutely disgraceful, and the thing is he's already highlighted the fact he has a young audience watching, it's that group of people who have been the most into theorising about the arcs, and he's not doing his best to retain the show's group of fans.
@@type40doctorwho I agree with everything Simon has said, and the general consensus that this feels like soap opera more than sci-fi and that the whole series lacked any depth of character or story development. For me and I suspect most hard-core Doctor Who fans, this isn’t Dr Who and I don’t want to see the Doctor crying at every instance, it makes him look pathetic. As you will guess, I prefer the Doctor as a stoical character, not indifferent but someone who leads his companions. The Doctor isn’t infallible, but someone whose been around the block and faced Daleks, Cybermen and abominable adversaries he wouldn’t have survived if he was the weak and fragile individual. As Lee say’s he’s a complete wimp, he comes across as a crybaby and everyone’s life depends on him, quiet contemplation isn’t the same thing. I was only 30 when my dad died, 49 when my mum died, but I didn’t cry. I loved my mum and dad, I didn’t need to cry to prove I loved them. This ‘‘Doctor’’ is weak, he’s not a character that can save humanity or any other civilization from the forces of chaos, totally agree with Lee. From the three specials in 2023 and the 2024 series, the latest RTD era has been a total flop.
It IS a joke. We’ve returned to the late 80s where it’s embarrassing to admit that you’re a Doctor Who fan. This show can’t be cancelled quickly enough. It won’t - Star Trek Discovery was dragged out to five seasons. This is just how it is now sadly.
Hi Dan, Simon, Charlotte and distinguished panel!! I'm just catching up with you all. Good to hear so many different views. One thing I enjoy as a Whonfan above all others is divergent opinion. There is one aspect of this episode and indeed this series that annoys me - the over-emotive 15th Doctor. Okay if Ncuti "wears his hearts on his sleeve" is a major character trait/flaw. Though he should be multi-faceted, one cannot build a rounded character on one trsit alone. Agree totally that to have the Doctor in tears every episode completely undermines the character and destroys the emotional/dramatic punch, that frankly RTD is FAR too keen to employ in his writing. I argued this point with a fellow facebook user on a DW page this week. He felt the crying was justified a "natural reaction" and couldn't understand doing it every episode undermined the effectiveness. Yes, it is healthy to let major tear-inducing moments overwhelm you but only a real wimp cries at literally everything!!! Comes to something when one of the series biggest-ever screamers, Mel Bush, turns her character around and gives the Doctor some much-needed "tough love", telling the Doctor: "Stop your grisling!" Thanks Bonnie, easily the most impressive character development the series. If only THIS Mel had appeared in 86/87! I read the other day, RTD was keen to change the stigmatise of the stoic "big boys dont cry..." aspect of daily life in the UK. (Perhaps he just isn't a fan of 10cc?) Don't forget, Donna often cried, again - nearly every episode of series four and yet in retrospect is seen, ironically, as a "ballsy" character. Go back and watch Fires of Pompeii, Planet of the Ood etc. Donna in tears really annoyed me at the time - RTD has form, folks! The classic show, whilst not without emotion, didn't plat with it so obviously and was all the better for it. RTD loves emotion as much as Moffat likes puzzling the viewer with who the Doctor really is, obsession which seriously overcooked both writers better work. Peter Davison's 5th Doctor famously says " I'm not the man I was.... thank goodness" in The Five Doctors, which works well in THAT context but a similar response from Ncuti seems odd and at best like far too much in just 8 eps (far too many written by RTD by the way!) seems totally unearned. Agree with Charlotte about "too many plates" undermining character development. Simon is correct re. RTD in 2024, with 30 years of being told he is a great writer. Talk about swallowing your own hype!! The man is incredibly self- agrandising and so self indulgent in his creative choices. Ironically, RTD is told how great he is almost as often as Rose Noble is told she is beautiful. And I thought Chibbs was bad with the equally unearned "Yaz is great but don't back it up with any visual evidence, just get other characters to tell her as much" as being the mark of a hack writer. RTD has become Chibs-lite on that score, which is truly remarkable and frankly very sad and rather alarming. Great video, guys.
Typing on a phone, I'd burn my fingers out if I type how bad this really was. Lowlights (in no particular order) : Cultural Appropriation, it's like RTD just has to throw random woke phrases in to make himself sound relevant. Everyone turning to dust, expensive CGI. Everyone coming back to life, no CGI, all just standing there, popping up from nowhere and no 'popping up' being shown. The editing throughout was awful, it never felt at any time like there was jeopardy, also whoever's decision it was to randomly throw us out of the story by fading to black, then starting somewhere else with no context at all, I give you the planet with the spoon. How did he find a planet with one person on it who not only was incredibly lucky to survive, but just happened to have just the spoon he needed. But, it was metal.... Metal he needed!? Sutekh destroyed life, he didn't remove metal. They even head back to earth and all the buildings are standing, the cars are still there.... what a rubbish, pointless waste of screen time. Back to the spoon, it reminded me of the scene in "Life of Brian" 😂 Ruby's mum being no-one. The whole reveal to Sutekh being based around this hidden face and secret as a huge part of the story, and it was pointless. I honestly thought Davina McCall was going to pop up to go full circle with the Christmas (not so) special. The Doctor cries again, and again and again!!!! Mrs Flood, are we supposed to care? Came in all mysterious and dies. Then when reborn, comes back as Mary Poppins, dressed like a Christmas Fairy. How are all the planets and universe affected when only about third of our Solar System exists after "The Flux? Music again being loud and overwhelming the voices. Ruby and her snow? Death to Death??? 117,000,000,000,000 have ever existed on Earth, I assume this can't be selective, so Earth is going to be pretty overcrowded now. Oh, and let's not forget, all life in what's left of the Universe (after The Flux) will be reborn. Imagine coming back to life with no planet to exist on!? Also, does this mean all the Timelords and enemies who died in "The Time War" are reborn, and Daleks, Cybermen, etc, etc, etc? What is the criteria for rebirth? Overall a terrible use of an amazing villain. Poorly written, poorly edited, and so much was contrived, convoluted nonsense. Sutekh has been on the TARDIS since Pyramids of Mars, yet when Ncuti hits the TARDIS with a hammer, to create a duplicate for Tennant, does he make a duplicate Sutekh? Also (if no duplicate) why did Sutekh stay on Ncuti's TARDIS, rather than Tennant's? The Doctor is dead and Mrs. Flood has already explained with her final comment, the Doctor will end terribly. Anyone watching this, will know he already has! 1 out of 10 and that was for the effects. There is so much to dislike about this desolation of Who, RTD what a bloody disgrace! RTD taking his inspiration from Robert Oppenheimer "I am become death, the destroyer of world's"
With people loving this finale, do these people not need a consistent plot. I just don't understand how finale can have so many plot holes failing after previous cliff hanger to answer basic questions with a shoal of red herrings
I really enjoyed this edition of Type 40 more than most as it served as a form of therapy for me. It was very cathartic, so thank you. You may remember from my many rants I was very much the optimist about this Season ( thank you all for being so welcoming in your responses). Until now I've very much been with Dan and his enduring and impressive optimism. Now I find myself siding with Simon, Sarah ( who I have had some lovely chats with) and omnipresent RetroDoc:Gary ( our paths have crossed on several forums, his articulate and witty comments are always welcome). Thank you all👍
As a piece of fluff this was fun....but COME ON ! The whole Season was building up to THIS?
A SPOON saves the Universe? Intelligent Rope? You can now summon the TARDIS with a whistle like a dog!
Once they killed off major characters with Magic Dust there was ZERO suspense. Clearly RTD was going to hit the RESET button AGAIN. I'm assuming this has also repaired the damage caused by The Flux?
The revelation of Ruby's Mum was so anticlimactic. Just a random Mum dropping off a newborn at a church RTD just wrote a big budget Soap Opera. To top it all off Mrs Flood is Mary Poppins.
To quote my Mum when I was a naughty child " I'm not angry, just very disappointed".
I'm honored by your comments, Doug, thank you!
After this, it's hard to believe that anyone will swallow RTD's empty hype anymore
@@gar535👍
That's certainly true for us this weekend. It's strange and unfortunate to feel so disappointed, after a week of genuine renewed appetite for the season in my case.
We have to assume and read in, so much when it comes to this silly, underfed story.
Always a great watch, Dan and thanks to everyone for giving up their time.
Simon and Problem Being are absolutely spot on.
At this point, disney Doccy Who is its own thing.
I hope those who love it get their own 40/50/60 years of wonderful stories.
I'm happy with the old stuff and Ecclestone.
Again: Disney do not commission Doctor Who. Disney do not own Doctor Who. The continuation of Doctor Who does not depend on Disney.
Thanks for watching Baz. This finale pleased no one on our panel, to one extent or another. We try to represent as much variety as we can. But this weekend, I think we are all justified in our disappointment.
@@type40doctorwho This may be the case but regardless, begun, the era of Disney Doccy Who has 😉😆
That’s how I view it too. It’s just another crappy spin off. Doctor Who ended in 2017 with the show going full circle. I’m quite content with that.
It would explain how Jodie's Doctor got kicked out the TARDIS it was Sutekh this whole time.
Who?
Who knew Sutekh was so based?
I think the mother reveal has proven to be the core of one of the biggest criticisms of the new era. It's focus on conveying positive messaging instead of writing good stories. I am expecting at some point Russell to come out and berate the audience for anticipating a big reveal of a past character. Because how dare we be unhappy with the reveal of an ordinary woman, think about all the people in the world who have similar reunions to Ruby in this episode. He baited us for 7 months, he was the one who created this mystical story arc, but he will ultimately see us as the problem at our reactions because that is the kind of man he has become. 😅Sorry I have strong feelings on this like those of you on the panel. It's been one thing after another since Davros.
I did enjoy the episode but afterwards I felt disappointed and underwhelmed that ruby’s mother was just an ordinary woman and Sutekh was defeated by a rope.
I loved Mel in these episodes, I would too also like to see bonnie Langford back full time!
Sutekh could've been any monster. Or something new. A shocking waste...
As I asked in the live chat, isn't Ncuti's TARDIS the copy thwacked out of the side of the real one with his Looney Tunes mallet? So was Sutekh also a copy and the real one is still humping Tennant's in his back garden?
It's indicative of Russell's lazy writing that he creates a problem, just to have the spectacle of the moment, and completely fails to contemplate the likely consequences. Where is the 14th Doctor, why isn't he advising UNIT, and why isn't Sutekh attached to his TARDIS, the real TARDIS, instead?
On the plus side, the bi-generation is one reason that I have failed to be convinced that Ncuti is the Doctor. The previous Doctor wasn't seen to die, reborn in a new body, that baton being passed from one to the next, in a direct line from William Hartnell's First Doctor. Instead, the Doctor gave birth to a junior version, a little like Oddbod in Carry On Screaming. And this Doctor Jnr has his own copy of the TARDIS, but has seemingly inherited none of the characteristics that made the Doctor the Doctor.
And I think that is why I wasn't bothered by Ncuti's Doctor kissing Rogue, because I don't see Ncuti as the Doctor, I see him as Ncuti. He's not the same person we met in that junkyard in Totter's Lane; he's someone else, who likes to dance in nightclubs and has magic gloves among his extensive wardrobe. He's a fake Doctor in a fake TARDIS in a fake universe. His adventures are no more canonical than those of the Second Doctor in TV Comic with John and Gillian. - Go on, Russell, bring back the Trods! You know you want to.
I loved the TV Comic, Crimpleen - I remember once that the Second Doctor yelled "Die, Cyberman, die!" or words to that effect, in one of his comics.
I agree with you that by now it's clear the bi-generation was a colossally misjudged concept, and all the questions at the start of your comment show that RTD seems to be filming first draft outlines of scripts, without any feedback or criticism from his sycophants.
Agree with everything
This is season 1 Disney Who not my classic who or new who
Well said! It’s pointless trying to make sense of this finale. RTD didn’t so why should we😊 Awful on an Epic scale. Even a harsh critic like me was astonished on how bad it was. Too flabbergasted to even bother trying to analyse the trash I just witnessed😮
RTD is making this all far far harder for himself than needs be.
RTD taking his inspiration from Robert Oppenheimer "I am become death, the destroyer of world's"
It's pointless being angry even. It was so bad it was ridiculous.
It was awful on an Epic Scale. I never thought RTD could stick the landing but even harsh critics like me are astounded on how bad it was. He subverted my expectations on how terrible he could write. Nothing matters anymore. Magic is magic and how do you explain magic. Read JK Rowling 😊 It takes a lot of World Building to make Harry Potter work. She’s a genius and RTD is now just phoning it in. The speed on how he wrote so many episodes so quickly can now be explained. He just doesn’t care anymore. Take the money and run.
He MAYBE would've pulled off a story this ambitious with three-parts. But I'm still not convinced that would've been enough. These stakes and the adversary was so massive. This has been a real missed opportunity.
Bonnie Langford was superb. Watch her in scenes where she is not speaking. A true actor.
Couldn't take my eyes off her. What a fantastic actress.
RTD I'm at the end now. I've given you every opportunity but I'm disappointed and tired now. I won't be back until you are gone. I'm sorry.
👍
1 middling season... and 4 great seasons? I don't know. The second run could be better?
Did the Silence get to kill Sutekh over and over again with an exploding TARDIS in The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang?
Well, he's certainly been killed by bad writing.
Who knows?
Who cares?!!!?!?! haha
With people loving this finale, do these people not need a consistent plot. I just don't understand how finale can have so many plot holes failing after previous cliff hanger to answer basic questions with a shoal of red herrings
have you come across anyone who did love this finale?
Great Stream as always! Unfortunately I had to drop out early due to work. Today as of writing this comment is my birthday and I forgot to mention it in the chat. Again Fantastic Stream!!!
Happy Birthday, Ezra!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, EZRA!!! :) xxxx
Happy birthday Ezra!
Wishing you a very happy birthday!
What the hell was that ending in last night's episode? I thought am I watching "Doctor Who" or "Home and Away" because that scene with Ruby's mum felt like i was watching a completely different show it dragged far too long and it was so cringey I am so fed up of kitchen sink dramas with companions and their family issues we've been having this same old crap since it's return in 2005 it's built all this hype since christmas of who her mother is everyone thinking she's someone special possibly an alien but no it turns out to just be the mother a regular person and an abandoned regular child I mean seriously how lazy can the writing get? It was a real cop out i just wish they stop focusing on companions and their private lives and just get on with space adventures in the TARDIS fighting monsters.
Sutekh the most powerful being of all the gods last or it's race and he gets easily defeated by a rope oh give me a break I hate so say this and I apologise for coming on so strongly negative but I was really disappointed with last night's episode but I'm not surprised either RTD use ti be such a great writer in his first run but now he's become a real hack lately i never felt this way before but I'm just about ready for a brand new showrunner at this point this entire season apart from 3 episodes which I did enjoy this was garbage this did not feel like Dr. Who at all also did I hear right Sutekh's been with the TARDIS this whole time since the events of "Pyramids of Mars" that made no sense either.
I'm also tired of seeing Ncuti's Doctor cry why can't he just be an alien? or am i just old? 😅.
Nothing to apologize for, Joshua; a lot of the panel echoed your comments about the laziness of the writing and the need for real change going forward.
The Happiness Patrol has Sutekh having his nails painted
Awwwww, bless him
🤣👏
I corrected predicted last week that this could never be worthy of Pyramids of Mars but after a reasonably decent first episode this was still a disappointment. I won't say a massive disappointment because it no longer feels like I'm watching Doctor Who. Where was Sutekh the destroyer? I saw some travesty, Sutekh the XL Bully, being dragged to his demise with a rope!!!
I will probably watch the Christmas episode because Steven Moffat has said it is possibly the last DW he will ever write so I'll give that a go....but after that...
I think after this series the Doctor Who I knew and loved is well and truly dead and episodes like Rogue were simply defecating on the grave.
Timeless child or female Doctor aside Dan atleast Chibnall didn't feel the need to tell us or explain what the plot is he let fans theorise for themselves he kept characters dead he was doing something different with the show and he got the villains done right he didn't make companions super special or important and he didn't tell fans to f--- off like Russell has, with RTD he's doing none of those and he is more patronising now than Chibnall was so I agree with Simon and Problembeing I would much rather rewatch the Jodie era than this current iteration atleast it was the last piece of proper full british BBC Dr. Who even those bad stories were slightly better than this Disney rubbish because of RTD's attitude towards old fans the man's turned into a complete narcissist and that is why the show is getting low ratings he's repeating the same thing he's done before and most people are fed up with it he's not progressing the show anyway that's just my opinion.
I agree. This is worse.
Joshua, why is it on every comment you make it's about Jodie and Chibnall? haha
Chibnall NEVER got villains right. Not once. And whilst I respect Simon and Lee's opinions? I'd say the majority do believe as I do. Despite it's flaws, the season has pissed all over anything that twosome were ever involved with. Keep banging the drum, if you like. You're entitled to your view too. But no: in my opinion Chibnall was SHIT and Whittaker is a JOKE. I will never change my mind on this.
Whereas RTD is simply not as his best and Gatwa is variable.
I have to agree Joshua. Chibnall was never cruel. He was incompetent yes and a hack writer. RTD knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s proud of it.
@@type40doctorwhorespectfully I have to disagree. It’s the intent. Chibnall was incompetent yes but he wasn’t malicious. RTD is.
Jodie isn’t the Doctor. She played a poor hybrid of Tennant and Smith. But Ncuti isn’t the Doctor either. He’s just playing himself. I would rather watch Kerblam or The Power of the Doctor than ever been tempted to watch this crap.
Whatever Chibnall’s flaws and there’s stuff I’ll never forgive him for, I believe he WAS trying to course correct with Flux but it was too little, too late. He wasn’t talented enough to do it. I do however think that his heart was in the right place with The Power of the Doctor and as we know that was intended to be the 60th anniversary special. It’s actually superior to any of the three specials that RTD came up with for the 60th and I don’t say that lightly. There’s nothing insidious in it, just a few scenes with a woman cosplaying as the Doctor and a plank!
Empire of Death is up there with Orphan 55. It’s so completely beyond anything Doctor Who, all we can do is point and laugh at its stupidity and put it in the bin. In fact it’s arguably even worse. We knew what we were getting with a writer as talentless as Ed Hime. He should never have been allowed to return after It Takes You Away. RTD was the superior writer and has gaslighted the poor dwindling remaining fans all series but especially with The Legend of Ruby Sunday and then tricked them into thinking they were going to be watching something good. Then mock you for thinking that Ruby’s parentage was important. If that isn’t gaslighting then I don’t know what is. The dangling of the carrot of Susan WAS cruel. There’s no other word for it. Inexcusable.
@@starryeyedwho Well said, Starry. I don’t have the energy or the time to write a critique of The Empire of Death 👍
2.25m overnights. So, slightly up on the last couple of eps, but still pretty low.
Well, we are where we are. That IS an increase. No doubt due to the strong previous episode.
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Simon, Charlotte, Jon, James, Jack, Lee and Gary.
Was it Jane Tranter or Julie Gardner who, in RTD's Imagine programme last year, referred to 1980s Doctor Who as "a pastiche of entertainment"? I didn't know what that meant exactly until I saw the episodes comprising this year's series. Empire of Death was one of the worst, if not the worst because it held such potential, so confidently thrown away by Russell T Davies in favour of putting yet another of his first drafts onto the screen.
Will I watch the Christmas special and Season Two? That all depends on the announcements that are made between now and December.
If it is announced that there is to be a third series, once again helmed by Russell T Davies and starring Ncuti Gatwa, then I will stop watching until at least one of them is replaced.
If it is announced that there isn't to be a third series, or that there is but without either of them involved, then I will watch the nine episodes that are already filmed, hoping for better on the other side.
But come what may, I shall always watch Type40Live.
Ahoy! Thank you 🙏
Yes we'll done all & giving of so much time effort
Why do you think there has, as yet, been no official confirmation from RTD or the BBC of a season three ?
They rarely formally announce until they must. Or until a window where the IP goes quiet. It keeps the series in the news cycle to announce a recommission, or a new cast member joining etc. when there's not already a series on. As it gets lost in the shuffle.
There's several reasons. We told our viewers Series 13 was going to be 6 episodes and would air in late Autumn 2021, over a year before it screened and 10 months before the BBC announced it. For example.
Great show as always everyone. Good points made by everyone.
But can I ask, is it me or am I missing something? Episodes like Rogue, inspired by Bridgeton, name checked several times in the episode, but hasn’t Bridgeton got quite a few sex scenes in? Why is an adult show being mentioned loads of times in a family show? The character or Maestro, sucking her wand, isn’t that too far for a family show. I don’t know if it’s just me but I’m feeling quite uncomfortable over some of the episodes this series!!
I'm not 100% comfy with that either. It's one thing to talk about Harry Potter books, but a series aimed squarely at adults is indeed a strange reference point.
It's like the Mindrobber's land of fiction suddenly contained 50 shades of grey 😅
Wordy twaddle of death plus death equals life. On what level can this make sense
heaven knows Chris!
Great show everyone.
This quote from Russell explains very well, why I think many older fans can't take to Ncuti's version of the Doctor..
'... In the past, he added, the Doctor “has been marvelously inexpressive and enigmatic and alien, and great actors have done that very well.” But in 2024, “I want a young audience watching, and they talk about their emotions, express their emotions in a healthy way.” Then, “along came Ncuti, who is one of those actors who pour with feeling,” Davies said. “When he is sad, tears pour from his eyes; when he is happy, that smile lights up the universe.”
With this current team I really don't think we'll see The Doctor's 'alien side' again, no matter who's in the role.
OK, with my conspiracy hat firmly on, do you think, considering the rumours that Millie was sacked, that Russell maybe rewrote who Ruby's mother was? Could her mother have originally been another mystery box to be taken into series 2?
I found it to be a dreadful episode, the way Sutekh was handled and killed off, very much reminded me of Palpatine's pointless return and demise under Disney.
Just watched the episode. Wow, what a let down. That's pretty much all I can be bothered to say. Other than RTD is a disgusting individual.
what's he done now? lol
Had been an overly disappointing season for me, a a few poor episodes, a couple ok, and a couple good. The finale was very important, last weeks episode was the highlight of the season. Unfortunately for me the finale massively disappointed along with 90% of the audience. I have to say the mother reveal was absolutely disgraceful, and the thing is he's already highlighted the fact he has a young audience watching, it's that group of people who have been the most into theorising about the arcs, and he's not doing his best to retain the show's group of fans.
He's simply not as clued up as he believes he is.
Watched last night’s Empire of Death so what can I say, hated it.
Don't mince your words! Tell us how you really feel? haha
@@type40doctorwho I agree with everything Simon has said, and the general consensus that this feels like soap opera more than sci-fi and that the whole series lacked any depth of character or story development. For me and I suspect most hard-core Doctor Who fans, this isn’t Dr Who and I don’t want to see the Doctor crying at every instance, it makes him look pathetic. As you will guess, I prefer the Doctor as a stoical character, not indifferent but someone who leads his companions. The Doctor isn’t infallible, but someone whose been around the block and faced Daleks, Cybermen and abominable adversaries he wouldn’t have survived if he was the weak and fragile individual. As Lee say’s he’s a complete wimp, he comes across as a crybaby and everyone’s life depends on him, quiet contemplation isn’t the same thing. I was only 30 when my dad died, 49 when my mum died, but I didn’t cry. I loved my mum and dad, I didn’t need to cry to prove I loved them. This ‘‘Doctor’’ is weak, he’s not a character that can save humanity or any other civilization from the forces of chaos, totally agree with Lee. From the three specials in 2023 and the 2024 series, the latest RTD era has been a total flop.
RTD failed dismally with the whole episode. didn't make sense. Made Dr Who looks like a joke.
I keep going back over the story in my head. Wondering if I'd missed something, somewhere. It was nonsense.
It IS a joke. We’ve returned to the late 80s where it’s embarrassing to admit that you’re a Doctor Who fan. This show can’t be cancelled quickly enough. It won’t - Star Trek Discovery was dragged out to five seasons. This is just how it is now sadly.
Hi Dan, Simon, Charlotte and distinguished panel!!
I'm just catching up with you all. Good to hear so many different views. One thing I enjoy as a Whonfan above all others is divergent opinion.
There is one aspect of this episode and indeed this series that annoys me - the over-emotive 15th Doctor.
Okay if Ncuti "wears his hearts on his sleeve" is a major character trait/flaw. Though he should be multi-faceted, one cannot build a rounded character on one trsit alone.
Agree totally that to have the Doctor in tears every episode completely undermines the character and destroys the emotional/dramatic punch, that frankly RTD is FAR too keen to employ in his writing.
I argued this point with a fellow facebook user on a DW page this week. He felt the crying was justified a "natural reaction" and couldn't understand doing it every episode undermined the effectiveness.
Yes, it is healthy to let major tear-inducing moments overwhelm you but only a real wimp cries at literally everything!!!
Comes to something when one of the series biggest-ever screamers, Mel Bush, turns her character around and gives the Doctor some much-needed "tough love", telling the Doctor: "Stop your grisling!" Thanks Bonnie, easily the most impressive character development the series. If only THIS Mel had appeared in 86/87!
I read the other day, RTD was keen to change the stigmatise of the stoic "big boys dont cry..." aspect of daily life in the UK. (Perhaps he just isn't a fan of 10cc?)
Don't forget, Donna often cried, again - nearly every episode of series four and yet in retrospect is seen, ironically, as a "ballsy" character. Go back and watch Fires of Pompeii, Planet of the Ood etc. Donna in tears really annoyed me at the time - RTD has form, folks! The classic show, whilst not without emotion, didn't plat with it so obviously and was all the better for it. RTD loves emotion as much as Moffat likes puzzling the viewer with who the Doctor really is, obsession which seriously overcooked both writers better work.
Peter Davison's 5th Doctor famously says " I'm not the man I was.... thank goodness" in The Five Doctors, which works well in THAT context but a similar response from Ncuti seems odd and at best like far too much in just 8 eps (far too many written by RTD by the way!) seems totally unearned. Agree with Charlotte about "too many plates" undermining character development.
Simon is correct re. RTD in 2024, with 30 years of being told he is a great writer. Talk about swallowing your own hype!! The man is incredibly self- agrandising and so self indulgent in his creative choices.
Ironically, RTD is told how great he is almost as often as Rose Noble is told she is beautiful.
And I thought Chibbs was bad with the equally unearned "Yaz is great but don't back it up with any visual evidence, just get other characters to tell her as much" as being the mark of a hack writer. RTD has become Chibs-lite on that score, which is truly remarkable and frankly very sad and rather alarming.
Great video, guys.
I'm tired
Same!
Well done team
Personally I think this is way worse than the Whittaker era.
You're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong haha
Typing on a phone, I'd burn my fingers out if I type how bad this really was.
Lowlights (in no particular order) :
Cultural Appropriation, it's like RTD just has to throw random woke phrases in to make himself sound relevant.
Everyone turning to dust, expensive CGI. Everyone coming back to life, no CGI, all just standing there, popping up from nowhere and no 'popping up' being shown.
The editing throughout was awful, it never felt at any time like there was jeopardy, also whoever's decision it was to randomly throw us out of the story by fading to black, then starting somewhere else with no context at all, I give you the planet with the spoon.
How did he find a planet with one person on it who not only was incredibly lucky to survive, but just happened to have just the spoon he needed. But, it was metal.... Metal he needed!? Sutekh destroyed life, he didn't remove metal. They even head back to earth and all the buildings are standing, the cars are still there.... what a rubbish, pointless waste of screen time.
Back to the spoon, it reminded me of the scene in "Life of Brian" 😂
Ruby's mum being no-one. The whole reveal to Sutekh being based around this hidden face and secret as a huge part of the story, and it was pointless. I honestly thought Davina McCall was going to pop up to go full circle with the Christmas (not so) special.
The Doctor cries again, and again and again!!!!
Mrs Flood, are we supposed to care? Came in all mysterious and dies. Then when reborn, comes back as Mary Poppins, dressed like a Christmas Fairy.
How are all the planets and universe affected when only about third of our Solar System exists after "The Flux?
Music again being loud and overwhelming the voices.
Ruby and her snow?
Death to Death??? 117,000,000,000,000 have ever existed on Earth, I assume this can't be selective, so Earth is going to be pretty overcrowded now. Oh, and let's not forget, all life in what's left of the Universe (after The Flux) will be reborn. Imagine coming back to life with no planet to exist on!? Also, does this mean all the Timelords and enemies who died in "The Time War" are reborn, and Daleks, Cybermen, etc, etc, etc?
What is the criteria for rebirth?
Overall a terrible use of an amazing villain.
Poorly written, poorly edited, and so much was contrived, convoluted nonsense.
Sutekh has been on the TARDIS since Pyramids of Mars, yet when Ncuti hits the TARDIS with a hammer, to create a duplicate for Tennant, does he make a duplicate Sutekh? Also (if no duplicate) why did Sutekh stay on Ncuti's TARDIS, rather than Tennant's?
The Doctor is dead and Mrs. Flood has already explained with her final comment, the Doctor will end terribly.
Anyone watching this, will know he already has!
1 out of 10 and that was for the effects.
There is so much to dislike about this desolation of Who, RTD what a bloody disgrace!
RTD taking his inspiration from Robert Oppenheimer "I am become death, the destroyer of world's"
SPOT ON anaylsis.
Season two was filmed back to back with season one. It will be more of the same crap. Every episode was bad this year.
You thought Boom was bad?
With people loving this finale, do these people not need a consistent plot. I just don't understand how finale can have so many plot holes failing after previous cliff hanger to answer basic questions with a shoal of red herrings