DID BETHANY BEAL SPEAK OUT TOO SOON? | Girl Defined’s Bethany on navigating a mixed-faith marriage
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- JUSTICE FOR DANIEL ROBINSON PETITION: www.change.org/p/buckeye-ariz...
PLEASE HELP FIND DANIEL: pleasehelpfinddaniel.com/
LISTEN TO THE PODCAST VERSION👇🏻
open.spotify.com/show/1oPDUkj...
SEND ME AN EMAIL💛 (content suggestions)
hihoneyyt@gmail.com
Any links with a ** in the title are affiliate links and I can make a commission from qualifying purchases. Feel free to use them to make your purchase or you can also just use them to see the product and then go back later if you’d rather search for the item independently:
**HydroJug:
www.thehydrojug.com?aff=12703&AMB&
GET BEHIND THE SCENES OF YT:
**TubeBuddy: www.tubebuddy.com/bhaney
For Business Inquiries Only:
insidethehc@gmail.com
So...I may have a pretty unpopular opinion here. I think Dav is not just deconstructing, but realizing what he's done and is feeling resentment. He has an artistic talent with his music and grew up pretty repressed. Artists are generally free spirits and thinkers. He never got to explore that to it's potential and then married one of the most conservative women on UA-cam. No wonder she was all about being sexy is cool with your husband all of a sudden. Before this announcement any video he was in with her his eyes were dead. I don't see them making it unless she deconstructs too. He's ready to be free to be a regular guy. And boy, oh boy. If Bethany deconstructs, she's got a lot of explaining to do.
This is a poignant take! Thank you for sharing it. I hadn’t thought about the resentment but that totally makes sense
I hadn't thought about his deconstruction this way either. And your thoughts on Bethany's sex courses make a lot of sense too. Very interesting!
Idk if she’s gotta go full atheist but I can see it not working if she never deconstructs and puts in the reconciliation work for her more harmful beliefs. I’ve noticed the resentfulness a bit too. Idk if it’s towards her specifically or just to like… what living such a restrictive life has done to him.
i would say that only in this community would I think this is an 'unpopular' take, and I 10000000% agree with you. The hatred for Dav and Zelph in this community is wild and I think you are SO accurate here
@@mikusheadphones I’ve seen some version of this comment from you in multiple places. How are you defining hatred? Is any disagreement or criticism hatred? Is it possible to look at how this conversation has been conducted, see the blind spots or missteps and name them, without hating any of these people?
The prevailing sentiment seems to be that this conversation happened too soon, that Dav and Bethany are extremely raw, and that there’s a significant amount of christian fundamentalism that still needs to be unpacked by both of them (including Dav). Can that be true without immediately being labeled hatred?
My win for the week is that I got out of hospital after a slightly frightening episode of ill health and I'm feeling pretty good.
I can't lie, his whole monologue about choice and freedom sounds like some of the stuff I used to tell myself to convince myself that staying with ex was the right decision. On the surface it sounds good. Choosing someone every day is good. Keeping a promise is good. I told myself I made a commitment and honoring that commitment is good, so if I can just see this through and continue to choose him every day, something good witll come of it. One day all the pieces will come together and these feelings will make since and I'll be grateful I stuck it out. But there has to be more there. Chosing someone every day alone, can't fix what is broken and sometimes there is no way to fix what is broken.That entire monologue in my opinion, contained zero emotion, zero actual love for his wife, zero fulfillment, zero actual sign of desire to be with Bethany. No true hopes or dreams for any future for them. It very much came across as him doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. That's not sustainable, no matter how hard he keeps trying to choose her every day. Maybe it's because I've been there and I'm looking at with hindsight but what he said wouldn't not be comforting to me if I was Bethany. Mixed faith relationships are super hard and they often fail. Mine did, for a lot of reasons. If I could go back to when I was telling myself that same stuff I hear Dav telling himself, I'd tell myself it's also okay to let go and to finally choose myself for once. I'd tell myself breaking that commitment and promise will be very hard but it actually is the right thing to do and will be worth it. I wish I'd done it sooner. Nothing good came from us trying to force our relationship to work when it simply didn't anymore. I truly hope for everyone involved's sake, he's staying because he wants to be there and not becuse he feels like he has to.
He should feel like he has to. He made a commitment to her and his kids.
@@heyitsme881 He did make a commitment but if he doesn't want to be there, in my book that commitment is already broken. In a perfect world, we would all make a commitment and be able to to keep bu that's not the world we live in.
@@heyitsme881he can still be there for her and their kids while also being divorced. A lot of people successfully co-parent their children.
Sam's comment is really cringe IMO. If you aren't a business expert and you aren't making enough for living and taxes, you need another job. End of story. This is just a normal part of life and being an influencer doesn't make you exempt from having to be an adult. I think asking followers to cover your financial short comings is just out of touch in today's economy.
Agreed. I’m not an influencer, but I am a small handmade business owner and when it was time to upgrade the studio I took on a second job part time to cover the extra expenses so they wouldn’t have to fall into the business books as much as without. I didn’t raise my prices or ask for donations because I didn’t personally feel like it would be right to my customers. It was a shitton of work: 6am-noon working decorating a store, then noon to however long (sometimes 5pm, sometimes 10pm, just depends on workload) in the studio hand making products, doing online work, everything else that comes with running a business.
I don’t see why influencer work in a similar position would be any different. Especially since today there’s a lot more jobs that are work from home online.
I was pretty horrified when they were asking for donations towards their tax obligations. Time to adult, Sam. But, I guess if people are willing to donate, good for them. Weird to me, though.
Not separating personal money and money related to the project, and therefore defining what is personal and professional money is very messy.
I say this as someone who is financially useless. But common sense is common sense, even if I can't follow it.
@@lizcollinson2692 exactly!! I have a degree in accounting so this all gives me anxiety lol the irs does not like comingling of funds and nonprofits are way more likely to get in trouble for it than for profits.
@@5taceydaisywhen I opened my salon I also had to get a night job. I also had to make sure my taxes were paid. I agree 100% it’s weird
I never post a win for the week, but on this video it is too eerily appropriate not to. Just last night I came clean to my own husband about the fact that I have been deconstructing from Christianity for the past year. He was amazingly receptive to it. Obviously we have a lot of ground to cover as a couple, but watching Dav is what gave me the courage to take that step in my own relationship, and I’m so glad I did it.
You can hold grace for someone and still keep them accountable; leaning too far into empathy starts to border on enabling bad behavior. There was a way to challenge Bethany in the initial conversation with grace (especially considering their background, current beliefs, and audience) and I do feel like they missed the mark. I'm excited to watch your reaction to part 2 because you are a shining example of holding grace while keeping people accountable. You're a breath of fresh air, B, keep it up!
Thank you so much 💛 and I agree- it’s totally possible to challenge ideas while still showing grace and empathy.
Totally agree with this. I guess I get asking for donations as a very small channel, ppl don’t have to donate. Anything over idk 100k but just any larger, clearly self sustaining channel I personally find that off putting. SO many creators that put out amazing, consistent content do so while working full time indefinitely or until they feel confident in relying on that for income. It’s like a Girl Defined with the ‘ministry’ which I don’t even understand HOW that’s a non profit or what their ministry is. Idk THAT is extremely off putting to me.
We haven’t seen B in a room with a person she would like to critique and we don’t know what that would look like.
@@gracetaylor6309If she’s not up to doing that in-person then she shouldn’t. Just how if Zelph isn’t up to doing it in person then they shouldn’t either. Not inconsistent.
@@bebel0ck I think I commented this because the original commenter called her a “shining example of holding grace while keeping people accountable” which seemed like a pretty heavy handed compliment considering the ‘accountability’ is through one-sided commentary videos, not embodied relationships. I’m pointing out that the original commenter was comparing two things that are not alike at all.
It’s just so awkward that Dave is over here just out loud conducting a thought experiment about whether or not he’s truly free being committed to Bethany and/or truly free leaving her as if she’s not sitting RIGHT there. 😂 Like I’m all for philosophy and such but it just feels so cold for him to do that when she’s obviously emotional and just said very vulnerable things about how much she loves him and how much her world has changed as she walks through loving him through an experience she never imagined for either of them. Oof. Like if it was just an interview of him, I think that would be interesting to hear more of his thoughts on that. But together? In this setting? I’m very uncomfy
Definitely too early for them to touch on those thoughts and feelings without exploring them together privately.
I love Dav's curious mind, but he does need some work on his tact, timing, and awareness.
Read the room, basically.
This summarizes things really well! I was a little confused about all the criticism of what he’s saying, since I don’t think most of what he’s saying is wrong or bad. But you’re right, him processing all these things with her, publicly in an interview, is definitely too much.
Totally agree. He seems very selfish and immature
Dave is a reminder for me that even though someone may be pulling back or questioning their evangelical christian faith, they can still be oddly conservative and off-putting. There's something about him that rubs me the wrong way and I don't even know if I could describe or even identify it.
You seem to rub me the wrong way as well. Hmmm
I wish I could have a conversation with Dav. I never completely lost my faith but I went through a period where I was abandoning a lot of my more conservative evangelical views to become a more progressive Christian and it was a similar process. It centered around me struggling to accept a friend who came out to me. I later realized that I also was struggling to accept a part of myself because I am trans and I was in deep denial about it.
I appreciate that Bethany is being more thoughtful and willing to consider different views. In the previous video she mentioned that she wanted queer people to feel comfortable in her house and her accepting Tanner for who he is was a big step but.....
She's still saying anti-trans stuff unapologetically and there's a lot of anti-trans rhetoric these days to the point that my wife gets nervous when I leave the house alone and she's contributing to that and I honestly don't know how much grace I can give her until she stops and apologizes.
I didn't want or ask to be trans. I didn't come out for a long time because of my misconceptions of my faith. Then I didn't come out because I knew I would lose my relationship with my family. I did and it sucked but I am happier and more confident than I have ever been. Being trans sucks. It just sucks less for me than being a man did. I wish she would be open enough to try to understand trans people instead of contributing to the rhetoric that causes violence against us.
I felt really uniquly understanding of what Dave said about "freedom & choosing" as someone who grew up under pretty strict control of my parents and their religious beleifs. Freedom, being a fresh concept it feels like you are closing back up a box around yourself just saying "no" to the possibilities of life you have never explored. He may genuinely love and care for Bethany, but the truth of not knowing who he genuinely is (if he had the freedom all along) is haunting. You did make a choice, but your hand was forced by your upbringing. Do you stick with your commitment and accept you will never know yourself fully or try out life as a "teen" adult and maybe realize that you actually were being yourself in choosing Bethany? It's a really tough thing to wrestle with.
You hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. I was thinking similarly to you.
I’m watching your video right after watching 90% or Taylor the Antibot’s video (which was excellent)! She mentioned that there is a Girl Defined content mill and that practice isn’t something she’s totally comfortable with, using them for lolcows, and admitted that people could call what she does in reacting to their content as part of the content mill as well. I think what she’s doing is really useful because she and her husband grew up in a similar faith tradition context as Bethany and Dav and she and her husband had a very similar faith transition process as a married couple, but I do agree that the content mill is a real thing and we should be mindful of that.
On your last video, someone said that they felt like Zelph is exploiting Bethany in this very vulnerable and confused period and I can’t stop thinking about that. It really feels like Zelph has swooped in and are using Bethany to show how smart, empathetic, and amazing they are as experts on negotiating and leaving fundamentalist Christianity. I feel like if they actually saw themselves as friends with Bethany and there for her in this sensitive time, they would have constructed their friendship offline and maybe shared a little bit about it on social media, but I’m coming to the opinion that releasing these videos as content to be consumed amounts to them capitalizing on Bethany’s situation. This is very much blurring the lines of a personal/professional relationship in a way I don’t really find ethical, and no matter how much they talk about it not really being work because they were having fun, they’re going to earn money for their for-profit business on the back of this. They’re going to use this to continue creating this persona of being these wise, go-to people for faith transition, and that will foster enough more of the kind of parasocial connection with their followers to keep those tax-evaded “donations” to Sam’s personal Venmo flowing for them to cover their living expenses without having to deal with pesky tax deductions. I think creators should only crowdfund on a very rare basis in the case of a true emergency, such as you or a family member facing insurmountable medical bills, being on the verge of losing your housing, etc. Otherwise you’re guilting your fan base and engaging in tax evasion.
I also don’t think Sam and Tanner are doing these unethical things intentionally, but I think they need to be critical with themselves and not hide behind the fact that they were brainwashed in a cult so we can’t be critical of them. Most of the rest of us do have to get jobs to pay our bills and don’t just get to post our Venmo and have all of our bills covered. It’s only ethical to do that if you’re marginalized in some way that makes it impossible for you to engage in documented employment.
The right way to go about covering the tax gap would be to direct people to a subscription platform like Patreon or UA-cam memberships and ask people to join so that they could increase their revenue.
If they’re confused about their tax situation then they should consult with a CPA to figure out their tax burden and what to do.
I agree that Bethany and Dav agreed to an interview way too soon while they are dealing with this new relationship dynamic.
However, I cannot blame Sam and Tanner, as they have spent more time honestly criticizing girl defined (often deserved), more than they have spent cheering on the Beal marriage.
Zelph has a business interest in capitalizing on the invitation to go to San Antonio.
They're ultimate mission statement is to educate on religion, not counsel married couples.
I don't think they were unethical in doing the interview, but with more compassion, they would have had these conversations privately.
See the issue is that Dav directly watches and reached out TO Zelph, so how is that them "swooping in"?
@@mikusheadphones They didn’t have to do a collab of videos and post them online to make money off of, they could have just fostered an offline relationship of support
@@bebel0ck we don't know what their conversations were off camera tho. They have autonomy of making a video or not, clearly Dav and Bethy wanted to do this weekend/series because they did it. They are BOTH adults who can make their own choices.
Again, ascribing this ill intent to Zelph for having a sit down conversation and making a video that is very helpful to MOST people who are in faith crisis or mixed-faith relationships is weird. These are IMPORTANT things to understand with relationship dynamics which are not discussed often enough.
You are assuming that there is nothing else other than the videos
@@amandawilliams5352 But do you have personal knowledge that these convos didn't happen off camera too? because if you have watched both parts, there are clearly moments that either party asked to be cut and they were. There is no public statement from either side confirming or denying that there are private convos too, ascribing ill intent of like 'clout sharking' is SO WEIRD and makes me want to sprint away from this community and just never listen again
Win for the week: I finally started writing again.
I really wish I had the time and energy to write again.
What finally pushed you to make that happen?
@@amandawilliams5352 I was inspired and just sat down on my lunch break and started
Yes! I started writing again this week too! It’s been so wonderful to write again.
That’s amazing!! Keep going! I need to do the same myself!
As a business owner, I get how difficult taxes can be. But it’s an entrepreneur’s responsibility to ensure your business model can support you before you go all in.
I started a business at 22 and, even at that young age, I did my due diligence to see what % I could expect to set aside. I did have negative second-hand experiences that highlighted the importance of proper business planning and I know not everyone has that knowledge when they start out.
But, if you find yourself in a tough financial or tax situation (shit happens), I just feel like the responsible mindset is to figure out how to adjust your business model or find another income stream (like a job) rather than asking your audience for donations.
Not sure if I’m a bigggg fan of Sam’s response 😬 I don’t think anything you said was in bad faith. Seemed very defensive and just not great. Keep doing your thing B!
I was a fan of Zelph and I felt Bs critique was illuminating. I also believe that Sam's response was pretty defensive and that put me on my heels a bit. I am definitely proceeding with caution when viewing Zelph, now.
@@carlyo7538Same! I was a fan and now I'm not really sure what to think of them, Sam especially. That really didn't handle this well.
where did she reply to this (im assuming you mean the video) ? im a big fan of zelph on the shelf, but i never wached this vid until now. if they arent being cool anymore that sucks :(
I agree. Also, don't really understand why they're doing a trip? They aren't a travel channel and with being a barely profitable channel as is it doesn't make any sense to me. In B's thoughts in part 1 I did actually disagree with her on some points in defence of Zelph but Sam's reply did her no favours.
I was shocked to hear that Zelph have been at this for almost a decade because it seems like their money issues would reflect more of a growing pains kind of problem than anything else.
Never left a win for the week before, but mine was just getting to talk to my partner abt my work troubles bc they've been so busy lately and we haven't been able to vent to each other or even hang out much, but we got to this week and they rly listened to me, and were so loving and caring and amazing, I immediately felt better.
Thanks for sharing your win!! I’m so glad you got to have that time to vent and have that connection with your partner 💛
I had something similar with my partner this week too!! And I plan to make it a point tomorrow night for her to do the same! 💓
Congratulations that’s really good!
I'm glad they are growing and learning. I married an atheist man, I was a Baptist. He is a safe person for me. So deconstruction was hard but was doable with him
I haven’t finished watching yet, but I’m totally with you (16:16) that the start to this video seemed much more like a part 1. I was so confused by the previous video and wondered if they had mixed up the parts!
My win for the week is I’m currently 12 weeks pregnant, no longer nauseous all the time, and I’ve noticed my belly starting to grow this week!!!
Also, congrats on your pregnancy! I don’t think I’ve made a comment saying that since you’ve announced it 💛
I'm also 12 weeks! But still nauseous lol. Congratulations!
The issue I had with their interaction with dav and Bethany is that it felt very much like they’re being handled with kid gloves or being fawned over in order to keep them coming back on their channel. I’m not implying they should be mean or anything like that, but it’s also not beneficial for anyone to be so surface-y nice.
This 💯 it’s possible to give people grace and empathy while still challenging their ideas and actions. It just kind of felt like they were there to let them say whatever they wanted and not really have a challenging/deep conversation.
@@BHaneyAs someone who interacted with Bethany, I agree that most critics would want to be more "real" and ask tough questions. However, after I pointed out something I disagreed with as one of her former marketing interns, I can attest that she quickly blocks and dismisses anyone who challenges her opinions.
She really is fragile in her confidence of her beliefs.
She doesn't often welcome open discussions with anyone who has different views, even Christians with slightly different theological interpretations.
So I kinda understand Sam and Tanner expressing unconditional friendliness and avoiding deeper questions. You have to walk on eggshells. You have to establish trust and enjoyment in an easier conversation before digging deeper.
I think this could have led to more in depth explorations through follow up collaborations, but Bethany already got spooked and blocked them or just withdrew from the group chat? Whichever.
But it sounds like even this surface level conversation was too much for her and she needs more private time deciding how she feels about Dav's views.
I agree that any couple has a right to privacy during a huge relational shift. But it's more predictable that everything would be shut down based on Bethany's past trigger finger on the block button after seeing/hearing anything that makes her uncomfortable because it challenges her to think academically.
I do not think she is dumb, but she was raised in the same culture as me: if you want to research your religion and study the historical accuracy or context of the scriptures, then you are deemed as "thinking too much", "too opinionated", or "not trusting Jesus enough."
I sense there is fear in listening to different views of religion based on how it will make her look to her family and social group.
I truly love her heart, I see her cry and my soul aches for her to feel peace, but she needs to find the courage to embrace the studious side of religious knowledge.
I hope she finds the bravery to dig deeper and have those tough conversations.
I hope she and Dav can have those discussions privately without having to expose her insecurities so publicly.
I want nothing but for her to come to a place of peace, joy, and compassion for her husband, her UA-cam peers, and the minorities she used to condemn.
@@amandawilliams5352 "she needs more private time deciding how she feels about Dav's views" I said it on the part 1 video and I'll say it here, too--this collab was too soon. Bethany's past aside, this would be a massive thing to go through for anyone in their situation and for Bethany to be doing public interviews about things she clearly hasn't fully dealt with just feels wrong. I think these interviews should have just been with Dav. I understand why Bethany was included, she is the more recognizable face, but at the end of the day, it's not about her, it's about Dav. Bethany's not the one deconstructing, DAV is and including her in a conversation about something she's so clearly still grappling with feels almost cruel even if unintentionally. They're chucking her into the ocean when she's only barely started learning how to doggy paddle. Despite all the things she's done and said, I can't help but feel for her. None of this must be easy and the internet isn't making it any easier.
I don't think its worth responding more to what Sam said.
I know their channel is still pretty small, but after 8-9 years of doing YT they've had plenty of time to work on creating content so I dont know why they are saying start up when its been almost a decade. Just my thoughts.
My win. Once a month i volunteer at a local VA to do massage. Had an oncology massage class, new grad from school, join me. Hopefully ahe can volunteer at her local VA.
And used my oncology education to ask better questions to give more informed care to my clients
It’s so cool you volunteer doing that! 💛
Man…my heart hurts for Bethany. As a Christian myself, (though far from a “traditional” Christian) I believe that I would struggle immensely if I was in her place. She entered into a marriage with a particular vision and that vision has now “crumbled.” She’s said and has supported some pretty terrible things but my heart goes out to her on a basic human being level.
Since Paul and Morgan had talked about being sad that Dave is deconstructing I don’t think they wanted that shoutout😂
I didn’t even think about that lol. You’re probably right 😅
Your sheer confusion in the middle, where Dave was going on bizarre philosophical tangets, gave me life 😂 For a lot of his speech, I too was like, “Okay……”
Oh lawd that was like freshman in college that has just discovered philosophy and is also high on overdrive
They need an accountant if they don’t have one already. They are commingling personal and business funds and not withholding enough. Then they make it the problem of their viewers.
Wow I just got to the part where he’s talking about the Augustinian tradition and it reveals that even in deconstructing he still has a fundamentalist mindset. He wants to get to this original faith when that’s not how any faith tradition exists. He also seems dismissive of tradition, but in Eastern Orthodoxy there the concept of holy tradition as something passed down just like scripture is and they don’t hold to sola scriptura. That’s just one example but it shows that maybe going to university is useful because he would learn about this topic in a much more rigorous way than he’s able to learn from podcasts. He’s still approaching Christianity as if there is one true practice of it rather than the fact that it’s a faith that spans centuries, cultures, languages, and politics. So there’s a wide variety practices. He’s still very Eurocentric and American-centric in his deconstruction. I wish people understood that how American evangelicals view things does not represent all of Christianity.
He's researching essentially every single religion in general based on all the comments and convos I've seen from this collab, other bethy clips, etc. He's trying to find answers.
Critical thinking and being allowed to question and doubt probably feels revolutionary to Dav and Bethany. Bethany's parents are more public than Dav's, but assuming they have similar backgrounds, their minds are blown by concepts most of us were allowed to explore at younger ages.
Literally. And all of the comments so far being accusatory and assuming ill intent towards Dav and Zelph feels BAD FAITH
Thank you for watching and commenting on both parts of this series. I have very much enjoyed Zelph's videos in the past, but I couldn't get through either part of this two part series. The normal structure of Zelph's videos wasn't present and I couldn't even really make sense of the videos without putting in more work than I felt it was worth. The only reason I watched both of these videos is because I watched your reactions.
I don’t watch Zelph really, but when I’ve tried I’ve lost interest because I can never understand the structure of their videos. It makes me lose interest
my win for the week is that the painters just started painting the exterior of our house! we're first time homeowners and have owned the home since dec 2022 but finally starting to fix it up! it's so exciting, albeit stressful af sometimes!!
Thank you for this commentary, it feels a bit weird to watch this video because it feels like something very personal about their relationship that shouldnt be on the internet. It feels like they're not on the same page at all; Bethany seems to be clinging to the relationship because of her deep feelings of love and Dav seems to be clinging to it because of his commitment. Another thing that stood out to me was how Bethany was saying her love for Dav was not a choice, but somehow she isn't able to see that queer identity is not a choice. All around it seems like such a strange video. I really wish Dav and Bethany would take more time away from the internet and both examine their wants and needs in this relationship without airing it online.
Still in the middle so I may come back to edit, but I definitely think this collaboration could’ve waited. I think ZotS mean well and are trying to be helpful but Bethany and Dav (Bethany in particular) are clearly still in a very vulnerable place. I wonder if they would’ve been able to have a more productive conversation a year from now rather than a couple months after the fact. Especially since it’s pretty unclear whether any of Bethany’s (and by extension, Girl Defined’s) more bigoted views have changed. And Dav is making a lot of jokes (some at Bethany’s expense?!) that indicate to me that he’s more than a little nervous.
I think questioning the money thing is valid. Even from a purely financial perspective, having business funds going directly into a personal account is a recipe for potential disaster come tax season. Splitting those up and having official ZotS accounts is just good business sense.
EDIT: this is random but I think Dav would benefit from going back to school. The way he’s talking makes me think he would benefit from a college level religious studies course to ask these questions and get informed feedback. Glad they ceased communication honestly, there’s a lot of incomplete thoughts that should definitely be processed in private.
WftW: I moved back to my hometown this week and had a great job interview this past Friday!
Totally agree about Dav going to school! He needs to be writing papers about this stuff.
I struggle with what Bethany is saying here about her older faith mentor encouraged her to explore and lean into her partners deconstruction and stating ‘this has been encouraging and helpful’ because Bethany shares advice on GD that’s completely opposite and harmful. Kind of getting ‘rules for thee and not for me’ from Bethany. I hope that she reflects on this and takes down those videos telling girls not to date men of different faith.
Wow I am really struggling to following this conversation. Not sure if I keep just zoning out or what but I can't seem to make sense of any of the sentences. Like I am hearing words but struggling to hold onto them and having to put in a lot of cognitive effort to extract meaning from the words. Any time Bea speaks it's like I suddenly become aware again that I am still listening, but I've got no idea what I just heard being said.
I don't think Dave or Bethany have been able to solidify their thoughts or beliefs in this area enough yet to be having this conversation on camera. I think there is space for content where someone is thinking out loud and figuring it out as they go, but this particular style of interview content with these particular people (I don't think) is it.
It's not just you, I'm on my second watch of the video because I watched it late last night and figured that's why I couldn't pay attention. I still don't know what's going on the second time around, the only parts that hold my attention is when B Haney is talking.
It also just seems like an uncomfortable conversation that shouldn't have been turned into content and monetized. I do get the impression ZotS took advantage of their interfaith relationship at a time when it was fresh and vulnerable.
If the only reason my spouse stayed with me was because they felt committed by a promise - with all due respect - I would rather they not stay. I want someone committed to me, not to a concept or to a label or to a promise. I want to be with a person because I love them and choose them even with the option of leaving.
EXACTLY!!! THIS!!!
My WftW: my little cousin is getting married today, so I get to see a bunch of family I usually don't get to see. I'm so happy for my cousin, she's marrying a good man.
So fun! I hope you all have an amazing time 💛☺️
Idk why but the last line of your comment made me feel all warm inside. What a nice sentiment 🫶🏼 congrats
On one hand, it’s positive to sit down with people of differing views. On the other hand, this seems pretty one sided and I wonder what would’ve happened if Sam and Tanner were speaking their minds, too…or did I miss something? It gets pretty dull not having a reciprocal conversation AND not having challenging questions you’d expect from a journalist…so it ends up being a bit boring…
I think that Dave constantly talking about wanting freedom is leading me to believe he’s going to want Bethany to deconstruct or he’s out. You won’t have the “Freedom” from religion while your spouse is deeply involved in the church and preaching the gospel… I think they want different things and he just keeps harping on his idea of “I can leave any time” 😂 but idk if he knows why he’s talking about it so much yet. I think he wants something else that isn’t Bethany as she is now. He assumes she will follow his lead bc he’s still got those beliefs that men are the head of household.
And she assumes he will come back to Christ. I'm glad they're taking a social media break. They have some stuff to work out.
This is exactly the feeling I get.
@@prismo1428 Liking more for the profile pic than the comment really. Now I want to go watch Adventure Time. 🤪
@@christinafedderke3751 yep! They’re both trying to change each other
I think you're onto something here. It does feel like they're both kind of pulling in different directions.
Its very fair for them both to be questioning whether this relationship is going to work now that Dav is openly deconstructing, and it's fair for them to genuinely not know at this point. I do think they would benefit from some time to work through this stuff offline.
What I'm getting from what Dave said is that at one point he did feel trapped in the marriage and now he's worked through it.
But when he said "break a promise"... I really thought he was going to say "break a family".
It just seems weird to me to focus more on a "promise" then on the real impact of your actions. What if the situation was such that it would be healthier for your kids if you separated from your partner?
But I think it may have just been poorly worded/he was thinking more philosophical in that moment.
As he has also thought practically about the impact on Bethany.
Dave's whole thing about freedom and not leaving didn't sit right with me... Hes talking like he's doing her a favor by "not breaking a promise" and giving her stability or whatever he said. It should be about what he chooses for himself and for them and their family not that he's forced to maintain his integrity. That's an odd way to frame it but it may just be that they are speaking more philosophically rather than how Dave is interacting with the world
Conspiracy theory here. All the talk about Dav needing the ‘freedom to leave’ and needing the applause of choosing to stay. Is it possible that the faith deconstructing ( while authentic for him), he also thought she couldn’t stand for it and it would give him a reason to leave?
For her, it’s too fresh. She’s very fragile. She’s talking too much and too fast to fill the silence. He feels inauthentic. I honestly don’t care about his faith journey at this point, I’m looking at his language surrounding his marriage.
Inauthentic is the perfect word for how Dav is coming across right now. I know most people (well, most snarkers) are applauding him, but the more I hear him talk, the less I like him. And I'm neither a Christian nor Bethany's biggest fan. I hope they can work things out behind the scenes.
I hadn't thought about it, but I could absolutely see that actually. I've dated more than one person who wanted out but didn't want to be the one to do it so they just started acting more and more different until I was finally the one to start the conversation. I could absolutely see him still dealing with the programming of divorce being a massive taboo and hoping that if she's the one to do it then he can escape guilt free. I hope for Bethany's sake that's not the case, but I also wouldn't be surprised.
I was not expecting that ending (with the text). That’s so weird to me and I’d love more info. Thank you for continuing to comment on and keep us up to date on this collab. I find it hard to watch Zelph and Girl Defined, so this is my only viewing of either.
I think it might honestly be for the best that we aren't going to get more of these crossover episodes. D&B really do need offline time and space to process everything, I think. As far as the actual conversation in this video, I honestly thought it was mostly pretty bland until the end where it got kind of interesting, which I guess is better than coming out of the last conversation feeling annoyed and frustrated. But yeah, I'm okay with this being the end of the GD/Zelph crossovers at the end of the day.
If B is bad faith, I'm just the worst. 🙃
That’s funny 😂 we can operate in bad faith together lol
My win for the week is that I finished revising a first draft of a story I’ve been writing.
Win for the week: last video I posted about moving across the country and having secured a great rental. Well we’ve been here 6 days and so far so good! Thankful for this transition❤
Yay! I hope this change continues to be so good 💛
I think the weird speech on freedom was basically him saying that he is beholden to Beth and her wishes to some degree - all relationships require some sort of sacrifice and compromise. My guess is, if he actually is totally getting away from any form of Christianity, he’s working through aaaaall the restrictions that it put on him and the immediate response when seeing this and also experiencing the anxiety (or at least the discomfort we all feel) reagarding where their future is headed (how much he will have to compromise, what Beth will “demand” of him, how much freedom to be who he truly is he will lose) is to simply drop it all and go off on his own (basically fleeing the discomfort of his identity being in flux snd what this means for their relationship).
The interesting thing is, I see his preoccupation with keeping a promise (over his effect on Beth’s life and happiness) as a very Christian thing - he made a sacred vow that he has contemplated breaking for his own benefit XD
It is kinda jarring on the tail of Beth being so open and vulnerable about the anxiety SHE feels for their future because to me it feels like Dave being kinda closed off about it, talking more about his freedom than the uncertainty. 🤷♀
I think people don't understand that freedom in a philosophical perspective is not what general freedom is. EVERY thing we do has multiple outcomes. These thoughts are often just not talked about in the way Dav does, which he actually does well. I haven't gotten to what B's take is on it but I'm assuming based on the comments, that she doesn't get it.
I would add that it's not a 'weird speech on freedom', it's just explaining the very tip of the iceberg of the philosophy of the concept of what is freedom really. If someone doesn't understand the most basic philosophical words and immediately assumes the definition of all of the words used are what are the ONLY common definitions are how you end up at B's confusion.
@@mikusheadphones I called it a weird speech because B Haney seemed puzzled by it, that's all. I think it gets a bit convoluted and unclear (my comment is mainly speculation because we don't actually know what Dave meant), which is natural for an off-the-cuff answer trying to explain a deeper psychological and philosophical process, but I don't find it weird in the derogatory sense (if anyone else infers that from the way I described it).
Nothing Dave is saying is making and sense. It’s all word salad. He’s trying to be so smart, but he sounds dumb. I don’t mean to be mean but the conversation needed to be not so high in the sky.
Lol yeah when they were saying he was being philosophical it made me think what do you think philosophy is?
I think he is just thinking out loud - and this interview is not the place for it. It's the thoughts you have when taking a long walk and trying to really think through something for yourself and figure out all angles and follow all tangents. It's okay to jump all over the place when exploring big ideas for the first time, but it is simply messy and incoherent to speak these things as part of a public interview - because where these thoughts are at is still the place of being messy and incoherent! I honestly don't think that even he could follow his own thoughts and monologues here. They were just all over the place.
Homeschooling can be great, but Evangelical parents often homeschool by isolating their kids. I suspect Dav's lack of tact, lack of selfawareness, and general awkwardness are byproducts of extremist Christian homeschooling.
@@jaimesfolly not all of us were 'isolated'. I was part of many co-ops, excursions, very well connected to the local network full of secular and mixed-religious kids. But a LOT of us are also neurodivergent and victims of bullying from the school system - I am both. My closest friend from homeschooling, a Jehovah's Witness, is audhd. Another friend of mine was ADHD. Another was autistic. And another was just your standard chubby shy boy who got his ass kicked for it.
So did I struggle with tact, self awareness, and general awkwardness? Absolutely. I rocked up to the co-op in hippie clothes with a pink cowgirl hat, bedazzled everything I owned, and talked endlessly about horses/K-Pop. And the neurotypical co-op kids hated me, outcasted me, and only ever talked to me out of politeness. It was the ND kids who adopted me and I got along with like a house on fire.
TLDR: homeschooling doesn't mean 'socially isolated'. A lot of us are just neurodivergent and so we seem 'odd' to the neurotypical world.
@@Moon0525_ I am sorry my post came across as generalizing all homeschoolers. I was referring to an ultra religious, isolating, greenhouse homeschooling. The greenhouse parenting was proposed by a homeschooling book (maybe in the Gothard curriculum - I can't remember) that treats children like hothouse flowers being groomed thoroughly by parents in isolation so that they are fully indoctrinated before being allowed out into the world.
I think you might have misinterpreted Dav’s “can you be a good person outside Christianity” discussion.
To me, he sounds like he is already pretty done with religion, and his curiosity is about how Bethany squares the circle of him no longer being a Christian in the same sense as her and her still thinking he is a good person, and how she will continue to extend that to other people.
I share the same discomfort about the freedom discussion though.
If I’m trying to think very charitably, he came from a very repressed space, seems to try to process very internally, and is at the awkward cusp where you’ve internally processed enough to have a bunch of thoughts and want to share them, but also haven’t processed enough to actually lay the thoughts out coherently yet.
Very much a “I am pinging off these keywords and must spew forth all the connected thoughts which are very profound to me but I’m too into sharing them all at once now that they’re congealing to successfully filter and sort them.”
I’ve only seen a few of your videos since going into eating disorder treatment 3+ months ago (shoutout to the awesome souls in these comment sections who happened to see my WFTW on those few videos when I shared them, as they related to treatment and food exposure challenges!), but I am SO behind on EVERYTHING, it felt daunting to try to catch up. That said, I got home last weekend, and decided to start going through 12 weeks of missed content, and decided to just go to your channel first because I love your heart, compassion, conviction for many things (just to clarify, POSITIVE convictions/beliefs), ability to hold space for nuance and a lot of this stuff while also holding onto your own faith, and I’d rather watch yours than try to go through all videos of all creators I watch in this sphere. You’re awesome, dude. 👏🏼🫶🏻💕🖖🏼
Dave reminds me of every weed smoking physics bro I went to college with. Judgment aside, those guys were just exhaustingggggggg
I find it SO intriguing to see how just the choice of who each girl married has shifted the trajectory of their lives & who they are. Which, of course, the person you’re around most will do that but I mean with religion, views & willingness to take in new information. While the other by all accounts married someone even more conservative, strait laced & how that’s continued to mold his as a person by comparison. I find that SO interesting, ESPECIALLY with what we know about their mom & upbringing. It can feel impossible to step out from under the views of such a dominant parent, on top of religion. Bethy looks in awe of him though & that’s sweet. Maybe it’s cuz I’m going into mental health counseling but I’m sure someone will get this.
If they’re not a nonprofit then they can’t take donations. That’s just not how money works and sounds like the IRS wouldn’t like their approach either.
Yup this they’d have to pay taxes on the “donated” money anyways
for-profit people can take donations, they just cannot take "charitable donations". IE people donating cannot write off those donations on their taxes.
I wish people in different communities could let these things be and not tear each other down. It's fine to not personally like Zelph, or take issue with some of the things they do. But the smearing I'm seeing in these comments is ridiculous and projecting to a pretty rough level. Not a fan of it.
@@bulletsandbracelets4140 thanks for clarifying!
I was surprised by your objection towards Dave’s point about freedom to leave or stay. It made a lot of sense to me: he decided to marry within the church even when he was questioning. That was a bad decision, and unfair to Bethany. No doubt. Because he can’t give her what he promised. But he loves her and their kids, so he’s dedicated. Yet somewhere in his mind he must think that had he been able to be honest earlier, they never would have married. So he’s “stuck” between the people he loves and the reality that he ended up here because of foolish behavior. Leaving is always a choice, and in a way it would rectify a mistake. But in the same way that marrying like he did and then pulling the deconstruction switcheroo reflects badly on his maturity / character, undoing that mistake would also reflect badly. But he’s prone to wonder if he couldn’t be happier if he left. Could she? Generally, we don’t tell people to stay in bad marriages just for the kids. Not just to prevent hurting a spouse. He’s balancing those ideas. I relate to it a lot. And I’m impressed by his willingness to discuss it.
Whether he chooses to leave or stay, he's going to be compromising... damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I sort of relate because I'm deeply in love with my first and current partner of 3 years, but I never really got to explore my sexuality outside of us... sometimes I think what if? But I can't live without him.
THIS.
like Dav explained it SO well and I don't understand why this videos comment section is SUCH a hate fest towards Dav.
@@sewergargoyle not necessarily comprimising, but yeah, literally EVERY decision in life, even the most simple of "take a sip of water or not" is *technically* compromise.
My frustration with what he said is the centering of his own leaving rather than considering or naming that his wife could do the same. I’m not a Girl Defined fan by any stretch but I deeply empathize with her in this situation- she married a guy who she assumed was in alignment with her beliefs and that ended up not being the case. So when I hear him repeatedly referencing his own leaving, it does feel strange. Why is the phrasing not, “I would understand if SHE left.” Something that acknowledges that she is free to leave as well and would have valid reasons to do so. The phrasing sounds like he knows she’d never leave so it’s basically him deciding whether or not to leave her. It feels odd.
@@kweenz600 Thank you so much for explaining this perspective. That makes a lot of sense to me.
MWOTW: Enjoying the piece before my youngest niece and nephew wake up.
I still think it's great that Dev and Beth did this interview. However, I do see your point in that maybe they could have waited until Dev finished his journey before doing this.
Definitely enjoy that quiet while you can! Lol
Yeah I feel like just waiting a bit would have been good for them! But I also see the value in them sharing what they’re going through as they are going through it.
I have seen so many recaps of this and I still have no idea what he was trying to say with the we and I stuff. I think that he probably should have been a philosophy teacher or something, he's definitely being philosophic in a way that is beyond me
My win is my work visa got approved so i can start work in denmark! (I'm starting a month late since it took so long.)
That’s huge, congrats!!
Congratulations on finally getting that approval! 🎉
@@BHaney
@@dwightschrute2323 💚
Having a mixed faith marriage doesn't mean that the non believing spouse will inevitably completely disengage and disrespect their believing spouse's religion. Dav wants to support Bethy and his children's faith journies. He IS supporting them. There is absolutely no reason to suggest that one day he will abandon them like that.
Commenting this btw coming from a place of experience. I have multiple relationships that are currently or have been of mixed faith. My Catholic bf can rest assured that I will never one day wake up and decide that I think he's wrong for believing that way, simply because I deconstructed from my own religious beliefs. Ppl who have deconstructed or are non believers in general that are in mixed faith relationships should not be treated as if they are halfway out of those relationships.
THIS. I haven't gotten to what B Haney's position on this is but if it does go that way, I'll actually be really fucking disappointed. This comment section so far is showing me that the community just doesn't understand how real life works and it's legitimately upsetting.
Adding more since I'm to that section of the video, I'm actually RAGING about the misinterpretation of what Dav is saying. Like I'm legitimately fuming.
B's interpretation is SO INSANE. Dav is talking about PHILOSOPHY and also about how HIS OWN BRAIN and LOGIC works for him. It's actually INCREDIBLY kind, emotional, and open, but because he said the word 'prison', the assumption is now that he is 'half way out of the marriage' and also calling his a misoogyist? like literally how???????????????????
These auto bad faith reactions are fucking WHY NO ONE TALKS ON THE INTERNET about how difficult it is to communicate the infinite outcomes from every single decision or movement you have. People don't have an easy to break down how commitment works because it's INCREDIBLY nuanced. Dav CHOSING Bethy while also discussing what freedom is in a logical and philosophical sense doesn't mean he's "half-out" or that Bethy is "clinging to marriage" etc.
Like I even started ranting IRL to my partner who doesn't give a shit about this stuff and played parts for him and he's also having my opinion based on the comment section being so fucking anti Dav and Zelph, ascribing the most negative faith and intent to any words he says.
Like I'm legitimately upset about B's insane rant at the beginning about the money thing. B started absurd drama over NOTHING and perpetuates it even further and digs the hole she made deeper, but she claims the moral high ground. Then this whole video she is feeling attacked by Dav explaining his fucking thought processes in philosophical and logical terms that he has experienced in his relationship and life?
Like yeah, B. I think it's too hot and you are too pressed to be making this response. It comes off as petty and the bad faith is absolutely falling flat of your general life philosophy for this channel.
@@kp-da preacccccccccccch. I'm spiraling more as i get to the end. B seems to think that the word MARRIAGE changes relationships, ok, but like, marriage is a legal contract. You can personally add more to the context of what marriage is, but the way that B goes off about marriage and choosing every day and how that is 100% different from a relationship is infuriating. She is ascribing her weird religious POV of what marriage means and assuming that people who aren't married can't actively be CHOOSING their partner every day etc.
imo B is just mad that Dav reached out to Zelph to make this video/series because she has started weird petty nothing-burger drama based on her weird piling onto creators just plugging their trip (ALL CREATORS MAKE MONEY EVERYONE, IT'S NORMAL TO PROMO THINGS) and the first like 20 minutes of this video being a SUPER fucking weird rant about how they are being sus and lying essentially has jaded her way way way too much for her to ever try to claim that she is a neutral 3rd party who's critique is nuanced and valid. Like why are you so mad at Dav, B? The treatment and reaction from her, since she is Christian herself, is LITERALLY why most relationships fall apart if someone loses their faith because the still religious partner can't understand the concepts and ascribes the most bad faith intent and assumptions.
the treatment of Dav's POV is insane in this.
@@mikusheadphones it is disappointing 😭😭
Good grief. I've never interacted with ZotS before, and that comment they left pretty much guaranteed I never will. No one said they had to be "experts," but being in such a rush to rely on YT income full time doesn’t seem like it was the best idea for them.
Right?! Like why are they asking their followers to pay their tax bill?!
ZotS giving Porgan vibes
Win for the week half way through my research paper!
Also love your hair in this one!
My Win for the Week:
I've been really struggling with my weight gain since I broke my leg on May 3rd. I was about to get cleared by my doctor to walk and then I fell and rebroke my leg, leading to an extra 8 weeks off work and sitting on my ass.
That all to say that I've been super vigilant about weight and women's bodies since I've been so frustrated with my situation.
But this is my first video watching since B announced her pregnancy and I see such a healthy and happy person, regardless of whether she's gaining weight.
Just seeing her happy and healthy and focusing on her work reminded me how much I'm aware of the wrong things.
B looks amazing and remains professional and I feel inspired to recalibrate my attention and focus on returning to work.
I'm sorry that this seems like a focus on women's bodies, but that's been my headspace since I've been gaining weight.
But every woman I watch on UA-cam has encouraged me to focus on my passion and profession.
And my win is the feeling of peace I get seeing beautiful women doing their job and pursuing their passion and not focusing or addressing weight.
I know that sounds hypocritical since I am the one bringing it up.
But I've been struggling, and B's newest video added to the material that helped fight my negative self perception.
I hope this reads more positive than it looks written down.
I mean nothing but love for B and thankful for her input.
Whenever I start to feel critical of my body, I try to remind myself: "beauty is not the rent you must pay to occupy this female space" and "my body is the least interesting thing about me."
Shockingly both times I’ve watched this interview, once in full & once here I’ve found Bethy was far more vulnerable (and likable) & Dav seemed to go on ‘philosophical’ monologues about things that rly didn’t matter nor were they on topic about navigating the mixed faith marriage thus far. B’s face around 55min towards end of his 20min promise/marriage/choosing/being was perfection. 😒🙄
Yeah, i felt like that too. I might completely be off base about this but something about the way Dave talks makes me think he hasn’t addressed the sexism piece of growing up in fundamentalist Christianity. something about him comes off as so many men I knew growing in conservative Christianity. Like Bethany’s feelings or personhood isn’t entirely respected so that’s why it’s easy for him to talk like that. I don’t know but it felt off.
I agree- I feel like Dave thinks he’s smarter than Bethany and Bethany thinks he hung the moon. Because of that, Bethany is willing to really put all of her heart into the world with no reserve. I worry about that dynamic. I think Dave is really enjoying her being outnumbered.
@@minisnape I mean, he DOES talk a lot about that aspect in part one tho
@@mikusheadphones he might talk about but it’s not evident that he’s trying to change that in the way he relates to Bethany. A lot of people talk about addressing sexism and racism and then proceed to continue being racist or sexist. It’s depressingly common
@@saratexas5181 yeah this is spot on. And I generally find her views pretty harmful so if he’s making me feel bad for her I think it says a lot.
B I love your hair.💜
It was interesting hearing about your win for the week. My husband and I love miniature golf and whenever we are on vacation, we find a local mini golf course to go play.
Puttshack is super fun! There’s one in Nashville and we just went for the first time last weekend.
At 50:00 ish, when Dave got philosophical, I took that as him struggling with issues around being avoidant. Namely that he felt trapped by the fact that he had made a decision to commit himself and that it was freaking him out a bit even if he did want to be married to her. Basically, 'Am I just staying married because I feel like I have to? Or am I staying married because I choose to love this person and want to be with them?'
Its something that really resonated with me as an anxious person with an avoidant attachment style who has also been married for 12 years. I know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense but your brain can really freak you out about being pinned down sometimes. I also really appreciated what he ends up saying, which is that he is recognizing that those thoughts aren't really helpful or even meaningful because he doesn't want to leave, he's just being scared. So instead, he's been telling those intrusive thoughts that say 'You're just doing this because you have to', 'I'm choosing to be in this relationship with my partner because I love them.'
Also, I have donated to Zelph and even through Sam's personal venmo. No one made me. I wanted to do it because I really felt like I've gotten alot from their channel and I saw it like a tip. I get that everyone has their thoughts on this but as someone who has donated to them, I kinda don't see why its anyone's business.
Yes! I also don't see why it's anyone else's business, there's so many mean comments about it. However, some commmenters are pointing out that for tax purposes it should be a business venmo, which perhaps is true? Like if people that Sam and tan only know bc of their small business are giving them money, it should go into a small business account and be taxable income. That rings true to me and is making me suddenly nervous that using Sam's personal venmo, while not malicious, might be illegal?
preach on EVERY point btw, love this!
@@evaniathompson3342 I mean, I'm tipping someone for their work, whether it goes to their business or to the person itself, I'm not necessarily sure how that could be illegal unless they do something weird with their taxes. So I'm content with the fact that I am not their accountant and have nothing to do with how they file.
@@EffexxorTotally agree! Tipping is a really good comparison for this! I don’t find the donations to Sam’s personal Venmo any different than a business Venmo, since we don’t really have any need for insight into their finances. It going to Sam’s Venmo just means it’s going to Sam - just like handing cash to someone as a tip. I can sorta understand the opinion that it’s weird, but i think people find it strange only because it’s virtual rather than a physical form of tipping, or because it’s using the word “donation” rather than “tip”, which maybe is making people think of non-profits. Either way, I don’t personally find any issue with it! On a tax basis, im pretty sure personal Venmo transactions are taxed if you take in over a certain amount through Venmo. So the tax thing is similar to reporting cash tips - not something we their audience needs to worry about.
She owes god is gray and apology, especially now
Win for the day: this video to get me thru the short work week 🎉
My WFTW - got the kayaks out for the first time this year!
The part in the middle where Dav was talking about choosing to stay, maybe I'm confused about the point he was making too, but I wouldn't want to stay on those terms. "I choose you every day and I have the right to leave at any time." I mean, I guess you do, but I wouldnt want to live in the long term position of well, my spouse chose me today but what if he doesn't tomorrow. I feel like that puts the other spouse in the position of always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Is today the day he leaves? It sounds awful!
I think its fair for their relationship to experience some changes while they work out these things, and it probably would be better if they took a media break and worked it out mostly off camera.
I guess its a good thing to consider every so often if the life you're living is the life you want. But "I have the right to leave," feels very ... self-centered maybe?
I hope its temporary that he holds his family in limbo like that while he works through his stuff.
WFTW: Had a nice get-together with friends for a "game day", hadn't had the chance to do that for a while.
I took it less as “these other people without god are good how is that possible” and more so the reverse “do Christians (ie Bethany) need god to be good so can you be without it”
Win for the week was moving into my new home and painting my laundry room in fun colors
Congratulations! 🎉 enjoy your new home!!
I'm not done with the video yet, but I have to say that if my husband talked about our marriage the way Dav is publicly, on the internet... I would feel so hurt, embarrassed, and concerned that he was staying with me out of obligation.
WFTW - my husband ordered some medieval shields from a trader for our upcoming reenactment this weekend. The trader wrapped the shields in 3 yards of white linen, which would cost a fair bit if I had to buy it. I'm currently sewing the sleeves in as I watch your video 😁
I think what Dav is talking about here (and this is just me working through it so dont take this as a true interpretation pls) is that there is a difference for him between compulsary Christian commitment in a marriage vs. the freedom he now experiences in his ability to choose commitment. I feel like if youre looking at it like a man questioning his marriage it'll feel icky, but if you consider that he is a man questioning his faith and that his marriage was built on faith that makes a difference.
this. i dont understand why B doesn't get that.
Sam’s comments read as very defensive. Especially since their channel is all about having empathy for people, I would expect her to at least try to see your perspective and acknowledge that you see it differently than she does. That was off putting imo.
I believe, from what Zelph have said, that it's only these two parts!
I guess I get asking for donations as a very small channel, ppl don’t have to donate. Anything over idk 100k but just any larger, clearly self sustaining channel I personally find that off putting. SO many creators that put out amazing, consistent content do so while working full time indefinitely or until they feel confident in relying on that for income. It’s like Girl Defined with the ‘ministry’ which I don’t even understand HOW that’s a non profit or what their ministry is. Idk THAT is extremely off putting to me. Especially when they charge for EVERYTHING, even an e-guide. Their whole life is for profit.
Interviewing is a difficult skill. So I really don't want to be rude. But if you're not willing to politely challenge someone, don't do this kind of interview and definitely don't travel for it when you're asking people to cover your basic living expenses.
They didn't even really challenge for clarity, which contributed to Dav's strange lecture on freedom that I personally found super confusing.
Actually, John Dehlin on Mormon stories is good at that, challenging for clarity or politely pushing back without turning it into a debate or Tim from The New Evangelicals.
1:09:17 i think Dav is just exploring what morality looks like through other peoples experiences, its not necessarily that he struggles to understand that people can have morals without religion. He was also questioning how religion impacts people's world views and decision making, i feel like he was just flipping that curiosity onto nonreligious people.
Is it just me or did his long rant that boiled down to "I'm gonna keep my marriage vows" sound like he doesn't want to be with her anymore? Either that, or he wants to find something grounding now that he's lost his faith (my own promise can bind me even if morality doesn't exist), which gives him comfort? I hope it's the latter cuz the former would be sad.
I think a positive thing we can do as a community is to not judge their journey together! It sounds like they do a good job of communicating their feelings, especially after they both kept their true thoughts suppressed for so long. Whether or not we like exploring philosophy the way Dave does, it seems like Bethany appreciates the way he thinks.
Theorizing whether or not Dave will continue to go to church or whether they will have issues raising their kids or not is probably out of bounds for us to do, especially when Bethany says that she doesn’t get it when people in her life want to “grieve with her” when she doesn’t need it. It sounds like they are on a good path together.
As somebody in a mixed-faith relationship, while it does take time to adjust to that especially when coming from high control religion, it can be so fulfilling and wonderful to live in a mixed-faith space. I’m happy for them and hopeful that their beliefs will continue to evolve into healthier and healthier perspectives!
Sorryyyy off topic I just gotta say!! 30% humidity is cute try 93%🥵🥵south louisiana is no joke
Kate Atkinson’s Jackson Brodie series always have a similar structure, which is the series hallmark. You serially jump into lives of disparate characters who don’t have an apparent connection , then threads of commonality emerge and are drawn together as the plot takes shape. She works with that structure brilliantly but if you don’t like the approach she may not be for you.
Tana French is an American who lives in Dublin. She does an excellent slow burn mystery IMO. She seems to have switched from her Dublin Murder Squad to mystery/suspense books set in rural Ireland. Faithful Place is a good choice from the Murder Squad series, Broken Harbour is another one.
If you like traditional mysteries, Josephine Tey is somewhat similar to Agatha Christie, but a better prose stylist. “The Daughter of Time” is a twentieth century detective’s entertaining but not very scholarly look into whether Richard III really did in The Princes in the Tower, while most of her other books are more conventional Golden Age British mysteries.
Dave sounds like he’s struggling with the inherent compromise that exists in marriage-not even the daily compromises between spouses but the compromise between “freedom” and “commitment.” Commitment to one person for life inherently involves sacrifice and compromise . If nothing else, you’re sacrificing the “freedom to leave” as he’s pointing out. You have to choose between complete freedom to follow your desires over anyone else’s and having a deep intimate partnership where you both have to give up some things in the pursuit of each others happiness. He’s not wrong in what he’s pointing out, but it’s interesting and a bit concerning that he seems to just be realizing that at the same time that he’s deconstructing. It seems like something both of them should’ve understood before deciding to get married. Marriage isn’t the end of freedom but it does limit some of your choices, and if you’re not happy with that concept it’s probably better to stay single
I missed your commentary on the 1st video (and their airing of it), so he may have said this before.
But does Dave consider his former life a version of living in the closet? That’s what I thought of when he was relating how he felt before coming clean with Bethany - that he had to keep a part of himself secret. Part of what makes living in the closet so debilitating is you always have to be on guard with co-workers, family members, friends, that you’ll slip and mention some small detail that reveals the secret you’re trying to keep. Will Bethany make this connection either and come to see her positions on gay people differently, when she’s had such a clear example of the joyful liberation and bounty of love that living as one’s true self can bring?
I’m curious to see where this, and the other threads lead. Their philosophical discussions about church doctrinal history sound like a hoot.
I haven't seen B Haney's commentary on it, but essentially yes. They talk a lot more about the whole concept of reconstruction and stuff in the first part!
God I really hope Dave is more open-minded and continues to stay nuanced in this conversation, and doesn’t do a complete 180 to the other side and becomes so anti religious that it’s just as insufferable as fundamentalism.
Only halfway through but a lot of this sounds like they’re trying to convince themselves and everyone else that they’re not going to split up. I don’t think they should necessarily split up; it seems like they’re very in love and definitely making it work. But I don’t know if performing that for the camera is totally necessary. If you’re that secure in your relationship you shouldn’t have to tell everyone about it. I just think this is way premature and I think Zelph is taking advantage of Bethany without realizing or acknowledging it.
They aren't convincing themselves tho, they are literally explaining the thoughts and points that have come up over time while dealing with those HUGE hypotheticals coming up in their heads. Maybe you aren't used to seeing people communicate it in the same way, but this is what a lot of the decision making process looks like.
Why can't they talk about their relationship, the strength, etc? How is that inherently performative? There is a HORRIFIC amount of 'lolcow' esque people on Bethy and Dav's marriage and these things are constantly talked about online, including the most insane jumps to conclusions and ill intent. They wanted to share this and talk about things.
THEY reached out to collab with Zelph. Dav specifically stated that he watched a Zelph video (and many others) and ALSO watched it with Bethy. THEY wanted to do it. It doesn't have to be SUCH a prescriptive and overthought video concept. All parties have the ability to speak what they want or don't want.
This is the ONLY comment section that I have seen so far that has such a hateful stance against Zelph and keep ascribing malintent and it's actually frustrating
@@mikusheadphones I just think we should hold Zelph to ethical standards when making content out of people’s sensitive deconstruction. I’m not saying that they did anything that wasn’t consensual with the collab or posting the videos. I’m only saying that I don’t think it’s the best approach and I think it’s totally fine to critique that.
I think that text he sent proves you right, B. Obviously we don't know all the details of why he sent it, but it's very likely that it's related to all of this really being too fresh for them to have gone on social media to talk about it as much as they did. They realized they needed to be more private about it. Or at the very least, they decided they talked as much as they should have and are stopping now (but I think you were right, B, and it was already probably too much). Not trying to bash them at all! They made the decisions they made in the moment of their own free will, and that's fine. But I think offering your opinion on it being too fresh is a wise thing to do in case others are going through something similar and have the opportunity to either be really public with something so fresh or to keep it private.
I don't disagree with your thoughts! But it seems like some of my reactions are different from a lot of commenters;
For example I think Dave is super intelligent and insightful, and really enjoy his philosophical musings. I'd listen to a podcast if he was hosting!
Secondly, I don't think he was being rude by talking about freedom and deciding to stay with Bethany. I think they've had some really tough times as a couole over the years, and probably especially recently as their views have been shifting in different directions. My interpretation is that Dave is being authentic, and also saying he is choosing to stay with Bethany each day because he wants to.
Where I do seem to align with other commenters is that I was hurt by Bethany posting anti LGBT things so soon after the collaboration. It made her comments in the video seem disingenuous, and I totally understand Zelphs audience being disappointed by that, but I don't blame Sam and Tanner for focusing on kindness in their responses, as this is the way they think is most likely to open people's hearts.
Yes I agree. Her comment about the LGBTQ+ community was one thing but she ten resorted back to but I think you can only thrive in a marriage between one man and woman. Not if you are hetero. I hope she keeps going further and recognising those beliefs are harmful and reductive.
She has come a long way which is great and I am glad her marriage is good but there is more unpack.
Win for the week: I'm finally feeling happy after another depression relapse
I’m glad you’re feeling happy, that’s a great win! 💛
as far as sponsorships go, trova trips is one of the scummier and exploitative ones.
That’s what I’ve heard too 😬
@@BHaney CassEris made a whole video about it because they were annoying her.
Unfortunately not everyone understands or appreciates the fact that faith journeys are personal and can very often contradict our partner’s or family’s journeys. Especially due to the content Bethany creates, it’s no surprise there was a lot of fear to come out and face this contradiction in their lives.
The talk about him not leaving because he'd be breaking a promise is weird. It should be about a lot more than that. It sounds like an obligation.
So glad to get a break from all the Karen Read trial drama😅
Oh my gosh I’ve been trying to understand the case/trial and I feel like I just cannot get a grasp on the details!
It would be nice if there was some kind of timeline video of the whole situation that would make it easily understandable. It’s very complicated for sure.
@@BHaney it is all over the place!
Omg me too! Wild!!
The what?
I think Dave will divorce Bethany. The mental gymnastics both of them are doing is utterly exhausting to listen to, I can't imagine what it must be like for them personally live through it. I just want to parasocially hug them and tell them it's okay to get divorced. It wouldn't be the end of the world.
Thanks B! I hope you take the time to watch some other zelph videos at some point ❤
Bethany seems lovely, actually...
I think she can be very friendly and nice in certain situations and this was one of them.
I hold a lot of empathy for adults who grew up in isolation with extremist parents. That they are even halfway functional is an achievement.
@@BHaney yesss. my grandma is very fundamentalist and everyone who first meets her thinks she's so sweet and lovely. That is until she gets comfortable and shows her true judgemental and hateful personality. My grandma doesn't have any friends...
I do believe thar bethany loves and deeply cares about dave. and I feel bad thinking this, but her emotionality reminds me of when I have gotten deeply attached to my past partners because I was scared of losing them, even if there were very present issues I had with them and the relationship. She knows that Dave allows her more freedom than her family. She sounds to me like she is pleeding for their relationship to work out. Im sure she's beyond terrified of what might happen if their relationship ends.
Esther Perel! Good job Dave
This whole thing is just giving me the ick for Dav 😬