NC is not for everyone, but it is VERY hard to get well in a toxic environment. You must be resilient and maintain incredibly strong boundaries in order to live LC with toxic people. I personally cant do it, but admire those who can. As far as your sister is concerned. Stop expecting yoga (peace). START expecting drama. If you expect the the drama, you wont be continually disappointed. Look at the good times as the exception, not the rule. Find joy in those small blessings. Thanks for sharing your journey! Best wishes for you 😘
*Brilliant* advice, sassy fox! Expect reality, is how I'd phrase that, not looking for peace and rather expecting what is actually there. I really like your message to look for the good things as the exception, but with gratitude. 💖 I also love how you said stop expecting yoga, aka, peace. That hit home. I'd wondered why my subconscious brought up yoga, but yoga symbolizing peace makes so much sense!! I've been looking at patterns lately - what's the cycle of events and feelings that continue to take place? Learning this and learning to expect the pattern has been a huge help for me. Thank you so much for sharing. I admire your strength and boldness of opinion, balanced by a softness of compassion and perspective. I appreciate you, and wish you all the best on your journey, too. 💕
Mad Men has a great quote like this. The character Pete tells his wife he should call his mother. She replies “oh Peter, don’t go to the well, there’s no water there.” It stuck with me immediately. Funny how these analogies can spark something we didn’t realize. I am NC for as long as it takes for me to stop checking for water. It hurts too much when I come up short.
Amazing. I love your application of the analogy to your life, not going there til you stop expecting water cause it hurts coming up short. Keep doing what you're doing, doing what's best for you. I hope you find water elsewhere in your life. 💙
Best thing I've ever done was move out, too, but not only because I "walked away", also because I was taking care of myself now, not dependant on them, but independent and free, closer with friends, closer to hard work and fun. I choose to focus on positives, strengths, and accomplishments of my own, independent from how that's all related to my family, rather than seeing life events and my well-being as totally relative to my family's. I think comments like these are invalidating to those whose experience differs from yours, and there are many people of that nature out there, who are some of the most compassionate and resilient people I've met and worked with. I'm happy that the choice you made works well for you, but please be respectful that your experience isn't necessarily what's best for everyone.
My wife's dad is a narcissist. She limits her time with him. If the conversation starts to turn dark...she leaves. It seems to work. He is getting the point. If he doesn't behave then their time together is limited.
It's hard to just walk away from family. As an ACOA you want to make everything perfect. Save yourself and walk away if you must. I walked away from my younger brother because he just wanted to use me. He only contacted me when money was tight. We were so close growing up....Sad but true.
From what I've learned about neurobiology and trauma, this could be very accurate in some cases. In other cases, maybe rather than or as well as dopamine hits and crashes in our brains, our nervous systems could activate or deactivate habitually on these relationships. Drug use that leads to rehab is often, if not always, a coping mechanism turned maladaptive (meaning it used to help us feel better, but it's turned into something destructive in itself). So instead of addressing the symptom, the coping mechanism, we can look at, why is a coping mechanism needed in the first place? What is the pain it's being used to replace? In our relationships, our pain is from deep injustice, feeling unseen, unheard, uncared for, and like we don't matter. We want to contribute to others lives, but our efforts are dismissed. We want to feel significant. We want to feel like we can grow and evolve, we want to feel safe. Why do our relationships with narcissists affect us so deeply? If we remove this person from our lives, we might remove some thorough, toxic injustice from our lives, true, but many simultaneously or alternatively need to address the feelings and needs that have been internalized and buried individually beyond the relationship. Also connecting with you analogy, drugs and drug use and drug users vary. For some, take the toxic substance away and that solves 90% of their issues. For others, drug use is just the tip of the ice berg. Ya know? Thanks for listening. I hope you're doing whatever is best for you today 💚
I agree, there's no one answer which fits everyone. I believe I'm making the right choice with having no contact, though that may not be the best choice for others.
Went no contact with my whole family(im the scapegoat) a year ago after breaking up with my narcissist ex girl friend. I moved from Philly to Las Vegas out of my home town… crazy life
Thanks for your videos, I have helped my mom so much, including paying all her bills and nothing makes her happy. However, having a distance from her limited contact, and awareness of her condition helps. Everyone wants validation, your videos are great, you think anyone would be interested in something like a taking circle?
So, I went into Home Depot the other day. An employee came up to me and asked if I needed help finding anything. I said, "Actually I can't find the milk." The guy busted out laughing and responded, "This ain't Costco!!!" I just thought it was hilarious doing that.
Hanging around people who treat you like a rollercoaster is like eating sugar. You can go on a massive high but the trip down is always painful. So avoid at all costs or limit.
No contact is the only way to go unfortunately... unless you always want to be on defensive and deal with the psychological games on a consistent basis .... cause you will never get anything from them . Self respect imo is worth much more 👌. Blessings ❤
Honestly, to say that *any* way, like no contact for example, is *the* *only* way forward, applied to *millions* of peoples' somewhat similar but still very unique relationship dynamic, seems blatantly ignorant and narrow minded to me.
LOL, I'm glad you explained what Home Depot is. Otherwise I might have tried to find milk there. LOL, you take good care of your European audience. Seriously though, you are on fire with the analogies Allisun. Awesome stuff. ❤❤❤
This made me laugh 😂 but, my parents didn't properly explain things to me growing up, they just said things (like hard ware store) and expected me to know what that means and all that a hardware store sells. I felt confused a lot, but like there was any expectation that I should understand. So for anyone who may have been unclear, I wanted to explain. 💖
We all have the yearning for family. I think family are the ones that love us unconditionally and don't take advantage when we let our guard down. But if their only there for the good times and when we are at the strongest in our lives, then what are they? I certainly don't class them as family, and perhaps fair-weather friends at best. It takes a lot of strength of character to commit to seperating yourself from these people. Some people move continents as an excuse to part ways without any difficult conversations (eg. my Sister). I think what she meant by not finding milk at Home Depot means don't look for and expect to find something that's not on offer. You could look for years for the underlying causes, but I think at the end of the day these people are just using projection as a means to deflect from themselves, and they do that best when your guard and emotions are down so they can cross boundaries. Predatorial behaviour.
Well said, James. I agree with you, it takes a lot of strength to separate oneself from their toxic family system, the act clashes against our instincts, social conditioning, and family grooming. It's also hard to personally experience a sibling distancing themselves not just from their toxic family members, but us too, so my heart goes out to about the distance of your sister. I hope that you have some peace about that. It sounds like you understand her decision and I appreciate your compassion for her. I also agree with you about the definition of a family. I've personally created my own family outside of my 'family' of origin, full of friends who are unconditional, at the best of times and the worst. That's a great point to bring up in this conversation. I wonder about other people in the comments here and just watching this video, how does having a true, unconditional family system outside of their family of origin, play a role in their current relationship status with their family of origins. Your last point is also spot on. One big factor in my relationship status with my family is considering that they are living with the aftereffects of intergenerational trauma, too. There's different trauma responses, avoidance, withdrawal, attack self, and what these people in our lives seem to be, attack other. Project, deflect, and plow over boundaries are their go to attack strategies... Enforcing boundaries and healthily withdrawing when they're playing their predatory games is important in these relationships. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope you are doing alright James. 💕
Some People don't get it I guess....not everyone can just cut off their families....and honestly is it really the solution? It's an escape but you'll always be connected to them somehow. So if you still stay in contact with them while holding up your boundaries, I see no problem with that. It actually makes you more understanding of other people.
I agree, momo... The association that certified me as a coach teaches 6 stages of recovery, one of which being 'Chaos or Rigidity'. For those who experience chaos, we have few to no boundaries at that time, for those who experience rigidity, we have distinct black and white boundaries around our subjective beliefs. Finding a middle ground is the goal of that stage. I think some folks get stuck in this phase, and it potentially invalidates others when beliefs are stated as blanket facts... Thanks for sharing momo. I believe in you! I hope you're doing well. 💖
I do, too. Truly! It's a place full of wonder, to me. I don't know what a lot of the whatsits and doodads are for, it makes me feel curious and like there's infinite potential for building and fixing things.
You can get $3 soda and pork rinds at Home Depot. 😉 We must mourn for what we never had, for what we wish we wanted. I learn this watching my daughter's relationship with her dad/my husband. I never looked at my parents that way.
@@ProactiveResilience Your childhood family is, literally and figuratively, your 'grocery store.' From a helpless newborn until the day you die the family unit is your mechanism as a 'grocery store' for food, shelter, and support. However, in a narcissistic family unit, the items on the shelves are rigged with mouse traps, ambushes and pungi sticks. You have every right to expect milk at the grocery store, but it's a trap. And that is the basis for the narcissist abuse. You can't help that, it's not your fault. Your therapist tried to tell you there is no basis for your expectations, that it was your faulty ideas....family IS a grocery store, not a Home Depot. Your therapist told you it was all your fault... and that's morally reprehensible advice that goads you back into the abuse cycle.
I think you can still lead a healthy and fulfilling life even if you still maintain contact in a limited way with a family member that has mistreated you. It just requires some guard rails to make sure you keep on track and don't fall off. Certainly if they are abusing you then that would require a reassessment. The NC or nothing crew has it wrong. I feel to my bones that I would be worse off if I were to go NC rather than limited contact with my close family member (no longer living under the same roof thankfully). If NC works for you then great do it, some people just need that limited contact.
Yes, I agree! We can still lead healthy and fulfilling lives with limited contact. I love your guardrails analogy and disclaimer about abuse and reassessment. 🙌 The NC or nothing crew! I find that phrase hilarious, honestly. Yeah, I just wish that after growing up with family members who didn't allow me voice and choice, I'd be allowed that in my healing process, and I wish that for everyone. I accept that NC is what's best for some, and it's difficult at times for me to process that others feel concerned for or dismissive of me and others who choose limited contact. But speaking to the point of this video, asking some of the NC or nothing crew to understand that may be like trying to buy milk at home Depot. :P Thanks for hearing me and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate you, and hope you're doing well, whatever it is you're doing. 💕
I live with my family. My parents had me late and the generation gap doesnt help. My mum is so toxic i feel scared sometimes but when she talks to me i tell her everything about my life. i try to ask for love but she doesnt give it. i am the youngest of 3 siblings who are married and my mum shows so much love to my brother who is 38. i am only 27 but my mums like your old enough and your a girl you should be doing things. I feel depressed but my family dont understand me. i cant seem to stick to jobs. any advice?
Hi Kez 💕 I'm sorry things are so difficult right now. Hmm. Well, I'd recommend reading the book "Emotionally Immature Parent Recovery" by Lindsey Gibson. There's some great education in there, and great advice for how to navigate within the relationship and outside of it in our own lives (like when we're trying to get work). Awareness comes first, then acceptance, then action, much of the time. Build your awareness and make steps forward as you're able to. Trust that you'll be somewhere different and better in a few years time, there's hope. 🙏💕
you r sweet and I appreciate your works. but the problem with videos in UA-cam is that people like yourself share their experiences at any point of time and they offer advice (directly or indirectly) and then they change sometimes much later, and others just take their advice only coming to fail similarly later. I remember watching one of your videos to go back to your n parent lets say after sometime you feel stronger. It was a mistake. then I came across more. reflective videos (not from people like us sharing experience but from experienced therapists and coaches). and I realised the poison is poison. also you try to argue that you weren't well because of life not her. well you had a video, no one cares ..I personally think being in relationship with someone core to our past who didnt care, and as you said doesnt have the capacity to do, generate dynamics for new people who dont care too. I have issues and sad things too but at least I know removing a core source of neglect is a step toward caring for myself
I am a coach now and have evolved a lot since going no contact, and supporting others in their family system recovery. I think the problem with UA-cam videos is that people watch and assume they know the details of my family and life, when they really don't. I have my reasons for doing what I do and believing what I believe, as does everyone else. I also think the problem with UA-cam is that while I allow everyone to do what they believe is best for them, I definitely do not always receive the same support from viewers. Your verbage, of using the word 'but' to undermine my choices and infer that yours as superior, is what I'd like children of narcissists to remove from their lives. The worldview of comparing us to others, and people to people in general. It's not normal, not nice, and not necessary. There's a whole lot of people who live and let live, who see the good in others and the beauty in the world, and just want everyone to do their best and root for them along the way. I wish UA-cam was more like that.
As a coach, if my client were to come to me and say they aren't no contact, am I supposed to support them by saying ahhh oh well you're great but you really need to cut them out. That's so shaming. The most supportive thing is to be with people where they are, trust their sovereignty, their abilities to choose what is best for them and to ultimately live a happy and healthy life, understand them as much as possible rather than assuming anything about them based on our own experience, and invite them to see new perspectives - which they can then choose to take or leave, as they see fit, which as a coach, I'd trust they will do the best for them.
@@ProactiveResilience I think my comment wasn't received clearly. let me give this example. I know people who chose to be vegetarian or vegan or fruitarian. Seeing the great benefits, they made videos and shared their great experiences with everyone. After a few years, they saw the consequences and changed their practices. Why? well, they are not scientists. They are new, evolving, and importantly dont have the right knowledge as diet and food is not their expertise. Most of them didnt have the courage to say sorry we mislead many people during those years. I see videos sharing (and indirectly encouraging) others to shift from no contact, to contact, then to limited contact, etc. the same. dont take this personally. I m talking about the platform limitation that doesnt show the timeline of people changing and .. overall the social media platform problem that we go about sharing our great experiences at any point of time while it encourages people to do the same.
@@minooluna23 Nope. I've been educated and trained in trauma recovery coaching. This concept you guys are supporting sounds retraumatizing, by treating a client similar to how their mother treats them, saying that something they're doing is a deal breaker, and accepting them conditionally rather than offering unconditional acceptance. And just entertaining this thought a little further, once they go no contact, are they worthy now? Or will there be something else that makes them imperfect, impossible to heal, and unworthy? How about their feelings about going no contact, for example. If they're feeling super guilty, to the point of the emotion being nearly dehabilitating, shall I retraumatize further by telling them that their emotions are wrong, now, too? Just stop feeling guilty, get up, do what they need to do? And.... I've witnessed how unconditional acceptance has allowed organic growth which has later led to more distance or sometimes no contact for my clients, where as they weren't ready to go no contact in the beginning. I've also witness growth lead to clients breaking no contact. It's ultimately so different so everyone. I hear you, in many cases the abuse is just terrible. I don't think contact is ideal in those cases!! But I think subtly shaming others by saying that something they're doing is outright wrong, is never okay. Thanks for listening. 💖
@@ProactiveResilience :) ) please read my entire comment. dear I suggest you watch dr Ramani videos. The whole idea is to be clear that narcissistic parents depending on the level of narcissism are poison and have to be avoided. I too spent times cutting healing going back and the same loop. No it didn’t work and Then I watched dr Ramani videos and since then I am off her and it is whati should have done long time ago. Ps. You say in your video that you could talk to her. Mine I couldn’t finish a conversation where she doesn’t express her opinion and complain and other shaming stuff without knowing anything about the subject. I m sorry about this outcome but when I remember how she has made Significant bad impacts on me and this continues I must protect myself. Also I m sure in your interactions with your clients you are understanding. The original comment was that UA-cam is an issue. Like in my case and it Seems in their case too it was NOT a gray area it was more black than white . But let’s say in UA-cam we see these videos and we think okay let’s give them a chance and it Fails because mothers and narcissistic people have a spectrum and their children also have a spectrum of their life situations and needs. Hope this is clear x
so sad in this culture kids are obsessed with moving out, think about your mother id happily give away 90 percent of my freedom in order to take care of my mom and be with her, our generation needs to learn to be more adjusting and accepting
Generalizing an entire generation into one stereotype doesn't quite make for an adequate evaluation, in my opinion. You do what's best for you, and allow others to do what's best for them. I think a generalization that can be fairly made is people in all generations need to stop thinking they know what's best for other people, and learn to live and let live.
My mother, is always asking me for money. I have had to unfix my savings just to help her out. She expects me to solve all her financial problems and still have the nerve to tell me, I am bad at saving money when she is literally asking me for money every two seconds. Every month, i am required to give half of my salary to my parents because "they raised me"😢😢😭😭i am so sick of this life. I watch my freinds buying cars and going on vacations while i work hard I cannot afford any luxuries for myself because I am busy building them their dream house which they themselves could not build when they were at my age. I try to always help her out and on days when I cannot, I am seen as a failure.
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NC is not for everyone, but it is VERY hard to get well in a toxic environment. You must be resilient and maintain incredibly strong boundaries in order to live LC with toxic people. I personally cant do it, but admire those who can.
As far as your sister is concerned. Stop expecting yoga (peace). START expecting drama. If you expect the the drama, you wont be continually disappointed. Look at the good times as the exception, not the rule. Find joy in those small blessings.
Thanks for sharing your journey! Best wishes for you 😘
*Brilliant* advice, sassy fox! Expect reality, is how I'd phrase that, not looking for peace and rather expecting what is actually there. I really like your message to look for the good things as the exception, but with gratitude. 💖
I also love how you said stop expecting yoga, aka, peace. That hit home. I'd wondered why my subconscious brought up yoga, but yoga symbolizing peace makes so much sense!!
I've been looking at patterns lately - what's the cycle of events and feelings that continue to take place? Learning this and learning to expect the pattern has been a huge help for me.
Thank you so much for sharing. I admire your strength and boldness of opinion, balanced by a softness of compassion and perspective. I appreciate you, and wish you all the best on your journey, too. 💕
Mad Men has a great quote like this. The character Pete tells his wife he should call his mother. She replies “oh Peter, don’t go to the well, there’s no water there.” It stuck with me immediately. Funny how these analogies can spark something we didn’t realize. I am NC for as long as it takes for me to stop checking for water. It hurts too much when I come up short.
Amazing. I love your application of the analogy to your life, not going there til you stop expecting water cause it hurts coming up short. Keep doing what you're doing, doing what's best for you. I hope you find water elsewhere in your life. 💙
I never caught that line until now! I was stunned when I realized Trudy ("Pete's wife") is played by Alison Brie!! (GLOW, Community)
Never go back, they dont change and they also think they do/did nothing wrong. Best thing ive ever done, its never too late to walk away.
Walking away is like entering Heaven , after crawling through Hell ❤
Yeap, i walked away at 30, and now i understand what happiness is. Even when i dont have much. Everything is better.
@@pkilam 💯 percent .... Very happy for you indeed 😊 ☺️ 😉🙏🏼
Best thing I've ever done was move out, too, but not only because I "walked away", also because I was taking care of myself now, not dependant on them, but independent and free, closer with friends, closer to hard work and fun. I choose to focus on positives, strengths, and accomplishments of my own, independent from how that's all related to my family, rather than seeing life events and my well-being as totally relative to my family's.
I think comments like these are invalidating to those whose experience differs from yours, and there are many people of that nature out there, who are some of the most compassionate and resilient people I've met and worked with. I'm happy that the choice you made works well for you, but please be respectful that your experience isn't necessarily what's best for everyone.
"Life is why I struggle at times"
Exactly!!! 💕
My wife's dad is a narcissist. She limits her time with him. If the conversation starts to turn dark...she leaves. It seems to work. He is getting the point. If he doesn't behave then their time together is limited.
It's hard to just walk away from family. As an ACOA you want to make everything perfect. Save yourself and walk away if you must. I walked away from my younger brother because he just wanted to use me. He only contacted me when money was tight. We were so close growing up....Sad but true.
I feel like going back is like trying to take a little of a drug that you went to rehab for but I could be wrong.
From what I've learned about neurobiology and trauma, this could be very accurate in some cases. In other cases, maybe rather than or as well as dopamine hits and crashes in our brains, our nervous systems could activate or deactivate habitually on these relationships.
Drug use that leads to rehab is often, if not always, a coping mechanism turned maladaptive (meaning it used to help us feel better, but it's turned into something destructive in itself). So instead of addressing the symptom, the coping mechanism, we can look at, why is a coping mechanism needed in the first place? What is the pain it's being used to replace?
In our relationships, our pain is from deep injustice, feeling unseen, unheard, uncared for, and like we don't matter. We want to contribute to others lives, but our efforts are dismissed. We want to feel significant. We want to feel like we can grow and evolve, we want to feel safe.
Why do our relationships with narcissists affect us so deeply? If we remove this person from our lives, we might remove some thorough, toxic injustice from our lives, true, but many simultaneously or alternatively need to address the feelings and needs that have been internalized and buried individually beyond the relationship.
Also connecting with you analogy, drugs and drug use and drug users vary. For some, take the toxic substance away and that solves 90% of their issues. For others, drug use is just the tip of the ice berg. Ya know?
Thanks for listening. I hope you're doing whatever is best for you today 💚
I agree, there's no one answer which fits everyone. I believe I'm making the right choice with having no contact, though that may not be the best choice for others.
me too
Went no contact with my whole family(im the scapegoat) a year ago after breaking up with my narcissist ex girl friend. I moved from Philly to Las Vegas out of my home town… crazy life
You are doing great! You are following your instinct. And that is what matters. ❤️
Thanks for your videos, I have helped my mom so much, including paying all her bills and nothing makes her happy. However, having a distance from her limited contact, and awareness of her condition helps. Everyone wants validation, your videos are great, you think anyone would be interested in something like a taking circle?
You're actually a very strong person Allisun
You too, friend! ⚡
So, I went into Home Depot the other day. An employee came up to me and asked if I needed help finding anything. I said, "Actually I can't find the milk." The guy busted out laughing and responded, "This ain't Costco!!!" I just thought it was hilarious doing that.
Hanging around people who treat you like a rollercoaster is like eating sugar. You can go on a massive high but the trip down is always painful. So avoid at all costs or limit.
No contact is the only way to go unfortunately... unless you always want to be on defensive and deal with the psychological games on a consistent basis .... cause you will never get anything from them . Self respect imo is worth much more 👌. Blessings ❤
Honestly, to say that *any* way, like no contact for example, is *the* *only* way forward, applied to *millions* of peoples' somewhat similar but still very unique relationship dynamic, seems blatantly ignorant and narrow minded to me.
LOL, I'm glad you explained what Home Depot is. Otherwise I might have tried to find milk there. LOL, you take good care of your European audience.
Seriously though, you are on fire with the analogies Allisun. Awesome stuff. ❤❤❤
Lol right
This made me laugh 😂 but, my parents didn't properly explain things to me growing up, they just said things (like hard ware store) and expected me to know what that means and all that a hardware store sells. I felt confused a lot, but like there was any expectation that I should understand. So for anyone who may have been unclear, I wanted to explain. 💖
do ever feel jealous of other people who have normal families
It is TRUE what the comment said.Stay in intensive therapy with a specialised therapist who KNOWS narcisism!!!!!!!!
We all have the yearning for family. I think family are the ones that love us unconditionally and don't take advantage when we let our guard down. But if their only there for the good times and when we are at the strongest in our lives, then what are they? I certainly don't class them as family, and perhaps fair-weather friends at best.
It takes a lot of strength of character to commit to seperating yourself from these people. Some people move continents as an excuse to part ways without any difficult conversations (eg. my Sister).
I think what she meant by not finding milk at Home Depot means don't look for and expect to find something that's not on offer.
You could look for years for the underlying causes, but I think at the end of the day these people are just using projection as a means to deflect from themselves, and they do that best when your guard and emotions are down so they can cross boundaries. Predatorial behaviour.
Well said, James. I agree with you, it takes a lot of strength to separate oneself from their toxic family system, the act clashes against our instincts, social conditioning, and family grooming.
It's also hard to personally experience a sibling distancing themselves not just from their toxic family members, but us too, so my heart goes out to about the distance of your sister. I hope that you have some peace about that. It sounds like you understand her decision and I appreciate your compassion for her.
I also agree with you about the definition of a family. I've personally created my own family outside of my 'family' of origin, full of friends who are unconditional, at the best of times and the worst. That's a great point to bring up in this conversation. I wonder about other people in the comments here and just watching this video, how does having a true, unconditional family system outside of their family of origin, play a role in their current relationship status with their family of origins.
Your last point is also spot on. One big factor in my relationship status with my family is considering that they are living with the aftereffects of intergenerational trauma, too. There's different trauma responses, avoidance, withdrawal, attack self, and what these people in our lives seem to be, attack other. Project, deflect, and plow over boundaries are their go to attack strategies... Enforcing boundaries and healthily withdrawing when they're playing their predatory games is important in these relationships.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope you are doing alright James. 💕
Unconditional love? What does it even mean in this context.... wow that hit so close to home, what you wrote. Ty.
IT IS THE REASON!!!!!!
Some People don't get it I guess....not everyone can just cut off their families....and honestly is it really the solution? It's an escape but you'll always be connected to them somehow. So if you still stay in contact with them while holding up your boundaries, I see no problem with that. It actually makes you more understanding of other people.
I agree, momo... The association that certified me as a coach teaches 6 stages of recovery, one of which being 'Chaos or Rigidity'. For those who experience chaos, we have few to no boundaries at that time, for those who experience rigidity, we have distinct black and white boundaries around our subjective beliefs. Finding a middle ground is the goal of that stage. I think some folks get stuck in this phase, and it potentially invalidates others when beliefs are stated as blanket facts... Thanks for sharing momo. I believe in you! I hope you're doing well. 💖
I actually like going to Home Depot for some reason.
I do, too. Truly! It's a place full of wonder, to me. I don't know what a lot of the whatsits and doodads are for, it makes me feel curious and like there's infinite potential for building and fixing things.
@@ProactiveResilience It's also cool that they allow dogs in there.
You can get $3 soda and pork rinds at Home Depot. 😉 We must mourn for what we never had, for what we wish we wanted. I learn this watching my daughter's relationship with her dad/my husband. I never looked at my parents that way.
I don't know Allisun, I confess some concern for your well-being....please be your own best friend.
Would you be open to sharing you reasons for why you're concerned? I'm curious 💛
@@ProactiveResilience Your childhood family is, literally and figuratively, your 'grocery store.' From a helpless newborn until the day you die the family unit is your mechanism as a 'grocery store' for food, shelter, and support. However, in a narcissistic family unit, the items on the shelves are rigged with mouse traps, ambushes and pungi sticks. You have every right to expect milk at the grocery store, but it's a trap. And that is the basis for the narcissist abuse. You can't help that, it's not your fault. Your therapist tried to tell you there is no basis for your expectations, that it was your faulty ideas....family IS a grocery store, not a Home Depot. Your therapist told you it was all your fault... and that's morally reprehensible advice that goads you back into the abuse cycle.
I think you can still lead a healthy and fulfilling life even if you still maintain contact in a limited way with a family member that has mistreated you. It just requires some guard rails to make sure you keep on track and don't fall off. Certainly if they are abusing you then that would require a reassessment.
The NC or nothing crew has it wrong. I feel to my bones that I would be worse off if I were to go NC rather than limited contact with my close family member (no longer living under the same roof thankfully). If NC works for you then great do it, some people just need that limited contact.
Yes, I agree! We can still lead healthy and fulfilling lives with limited contact. I love your guardrails analogy and disclaimer about abuse and reassessment. 🙌
The NC or nothing crew! I find that phrase hilarious, honestly. Yeah, I just wish that after growing up with family members who didn't allow me voice and choice, I'd be allowed that in my healing process, and I wish that for everyone. I accept that NC is what's best for some, and it's difficult at times for me to process that others feel concerned for or dismissive of me and others who choose limited contact. But speaking to the point of this video, asking some of the NC or nothing crew to understand that may be like trying to buy milk at home Depot. :P
Thanks for hearing me and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate you, and hope you're doing well, whatever it is you're doing. 💕
I live with my family. My parents had me late and the generation gap doesnt help. My mum is so toxic i feel scared sometimes but when she talks to me i tell her everything about my life. i try to ask for love but she doesnt give it. i am the youngest of 3 siblings who are married and my mum shows so much love to my brother who is 38. i am only 27 but my mums like your old enough and your a girl you should be doing things. I feel depressed but my family dont understand me. i cant seem to stick to jobs. any advice?
Hi Kez 💕 I'm sorry things are so difficult right now. Hmm. Well, I'd recommend reading the book "Emotionally Immature Parent Recovery" by Lindsey Gibson. There's some great education in there, and great advice for how to navigate within the relationship and outside of it in our own lives (like when we're trying to get work). Awareness comes first, then acceptance, then action, much of the time. Build your awareness and make steps forward as you're able to. Trust that you'll be somewhere different and better in a few years time, there's hope. 🙏💕
@@ProactiveResilience would you suggest moving out?
@@kez6375 yes, if financially do-able. You need to find a job you can stick with and make enough money for at least a shared apt/house.
you r sweet and I appreciate your works. but the problem with videos in UA-cam is that people like yourself share their experiences at any point of time and they offer advice (directly or indirectly) and then they change sometimes much later, and others just take their advice only coming to fail similarly later. I remember watching one of your videos to go back to your n parent lets say after sometime you feel stronger. It was a mistake. then I came across more. reflective videos (not from people like us sharing experience but from experienced therapists and coaches). and I realised the poison is poison. also you try to argue that you weren't well because of life not her. well you had a video, no one cares ..I personally think being in relationship with someone core to our past who didnt care, and as you said doesnt have the capacity to do, generate dynamics for new people who dont care too. I have issues and sad things too but at least I know removing a core source of neglect is a step toward caring for myself
I am a coach now and have evolved a lot since going no contact, and supporting others in their family system recovery. I think the problem with UA-cam videos is that people watch and assume they know the details of my family and life, when they really don't. I have my reasons for doing what I do and believing what I believe, as does everyone else. I also think the problem with UA-cam is that while I allow everyone to do what they believe is best for them, I definitely do not always receive the same support from viewers. Your verbage, of using the word 'but' to undermine my choices and infer that yours as superior, is what I'd like children of narcissists to remove from their lives. The worldview of comparing us to others, and people to people in general. It's not normal, not nice, and not necessary. There's a whole lot of people who live and let live, who see the good in others and the beauty in the world, and just want everyone to do their best and root for them along the way. I wish UA-cam was more like that.
As a coach, if my client were to come to me and say they aren't no contact, am I supposed to support them by saying ahhh oh well you're great but you really need to cut them out. That's so shaming. The most supportive thing is to be with people where they are, trust their sovereignty, their abilities to choose what is best for them and to ultimately live a happy and healthy life, understand them as much as possible rather than assuming anything about them based on our own experience, and invite them to see new perspectives - which they can then choose to take or leave, as they see fit, which as a coach, I'd trust they will do the best for them.
@@ProactiveResilience I think my comment wasn't received clearly. let me give this example. I know people who chose to be vegetarian or vegan or fruitarian. Seeing the great benefits, they made videos and shared their great experiences with everyone. After a few years, they saw the consequences and changed their practices. Why? well, they are not scientists. They are new, evolving, and importantly dont have the right knowledge as diet and food is not their expertise. Most of them didnt have the courage to say sorry we mislead many people during those years.
I see videos sharing (and indirectly encouraging) others to shift from no contact, to contact, then to limited contact, etc. the same.
dont take this personally. I m talking about the platform limitation that doesnt show the timeline of people changing and .. overall the social media platform problem that we go about sharing our great experiences at any point of time while it encourages people to do the same.
@@minooluna23 Nope. I've been educated and trained in trauma recovery coaching.
This concept you guys are supporting sounds retraumatizing, by treating a client similar to how their mother treats them, saying that something they're doing is a deal breaker, and accepting them conditionally rather than offering unconditional acceptance.
And just entertaining this thought a little further, once they go no contact, are they worthy now? Or will there be something else that makes them imperfect, impossible to heal, and unworthy? How about their feelings about going no contact, for example. If they're feeling super guilty, to the point of the emotion being nearly dehabilitating, shall I retraumatize further by telling them that their emotions are wrong, now, too? Just stop feeling guilty, get up, do what they need to do?
And.... I've witnessed how unconditional acceptance has allowed organic growth which has later led to more distance or sometimes no contact for my clients, where as they weren't ready to go no contact in the beginning. I've also witness growth lead to clients breaking no contact.
It's ultimately so different so everyone. I hear you, in many cases the abuse is just terrible. I don't think contact is ideal in those cases!! But I think subtly shaming others by saying that something they're doing is outright wrong, is never okay.
Thanks for listening. 💖
@@ProactiveResilience :) ) please read my entire comment. dear I suggest you watch dr Ramani videos. The whole idea is to be clear that narcissistic parents depending on the level of narcissism are poison and have to be avoided. I too spent times cutting healing going back and the same loop. No it didn’t work and
Then I watched dr Ramani videos and since then I am off her and it is whati should have done long time ago. Ps. You say in your video that you could talk to her. Mine I couldn’t finish a conversation where she doesn’t express her opinion and complain and other shaming stuff without knowing anything about the subject. I m sorry about this outcome but when I remember how she has made Significant bad impacts on me and this continues I must protect myself. Also I m sure in your interactions with your clients you are understanding. The original comment was that UA-cam is an issue. Like in my case and it
Seems in their case too it was NOT a gray area it was more black than white . But let’s say in UA-cam we see these videos and we think okay let’s give them a chance and it Fails because mothers and narcissistic people have a spectrum and their children also have a spectrum of their life situations and needs. Hope this is clear x
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so sad in this culture kids are obsessed with moving out, think about your mother id happily give away 90 percent of my freedom in order to take care of my mom and be with her, our generation needs to learn to be more adjusting and accepting
Generalizing an entire generation into one stereotype doesn't quite make for an adequate evaluation, in my opinion. You do what's best for you, and allow others to do what's best for them. I think a generalization that can be fairly made is people in all generations need to stop thinking they know what's best for other people, and learn to live and let live.
You're not taking abuse into account!
My mother, is always asking me for money. I have had to unfix my savings just to help her out. She expects me to solve all her financial problems and still have the nerve to tell me, I am bad at saving money when she is literally asking me for money every two seconds. Every month, i am required to give half of my salary to my parents because "they raised me"😢😢😭😭i am so sick of this life. I watch my freinds buying cars and going on vacations while i work hard I cannot afford any luxuries for myself because I am busy building them their dream house which they themselves could not build when they were at my age. I try to always help her out and on days when I cannot, I am seen as a failure.
@@zintlemakeleni2906any update ? Has your situation changed ?