The first half of the ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx3ICSK6nSknaL_45CU2NmFSoXjarGMDiJ book is everything about wood: types, tools, finishes, setting up shop etc. The second half is all about doing projects for inside and outside of the home. The color pictures are helpful. After reading a dozen of these types of books, this is probably the best overall (layout, color photos, plans). Only detraction is that many of the projects use a table saw/router/planer, which are usually expensive and take up space, so the plans are less friendly to newcomers and the budget conscious. But I know I can use a drill, circular saw or a jigsaw to make the projects.
This channel has upped my woodworking quality to the point I'm now getting requests for work, and finishing up my first ever piece of furniture. Cheers Rex!
What you have there is a coopering gauge used by barrel makers. The copper sheet shim is a wear plate because wood to wood contact would cause the fence to wear out very quickly. Copper and Bronze make excellent low friction wearing plates. That's why traditional English marking gauges usually have brass inserts in the fence face. End grain is very abrasive. Sometimes on really high quality ebony gauges the entire gauge block fence would be brass plated for maximum wear resistance. Cooper's tend to make a lot of their own tools because they are so specialised. Coach builder's also use large gauges but that one is for marking the relief of the edge of the barrel by running the fence around the inside.
I love the idea that tool historians in the future will wonder why particular seemingly arbitrary radius began to appear on amateur woodwoorker's home made tools all at about the same time across the world in the late 2010s/early 2020s.
Whats even better is the tools history 100 plus years prior to 2020. Andi ts use How many would know that they are using s forgotten tool. How many times have you wished you had something no one makes, but they were widely used 100 plus years go. The historical value alone was worth watching this.
I love how easy is it to follow your tutorials. The historic information is always an interesting bonus, too. Plus, your voice seems to make this stick in a way that is highly memorable and easy to recall.
I almost forgot, I was watching a video on youtube. No tablesaw, no router, no drillpress, just amazing handtool based woodwork. Great to see the channel growing so fast. congrats to (almost) 1/4 mil subs
Wow, as a little kid i recall my grandfather as a carpenter, over the years he left his toolbox under the cellar and he had one of these and other hand made wooden tools; i later in life found out what they were!🙂🙂
Thanks. I had made a flush marking gauge from a chunk of scrap, a ground-off allen wrench, and a 1/4-20 thumbscrew that I wasn't happy with, and when I saw your video, I rebuilt it along this design and am now very pleased with it. My marking bar is a 7/32 Allen Wrench, with most of the arm ground off, leaving only about 1/4" of tooth, sort of like a router. My handle is about the same, with a round hole for the allen wrench, some carving to allow the tooth to seat fully in the handle, but my locking wedge is only about 1/4+ x 3/8x 3". I used firewood cherry for both parts. A neat trick I learned for the tiny mortise was to drag a narrow strip of sandpaper between the top edge of the wedge and the top of the mortise to do fine adjustments. Each drag of the sandpaper between the Also, I found that if you tap the stuck locking wedge on something, it doesn't fly or need the peg -- The wedge is stopped dead by the table and the handle moves and unlocks. I'm planning on making a bigger gauge more like your design, since I'm so happy with how well my rebuild of my old hack works.
I have absolutely no interest in woodworking or taking up woodworking in the future. But I’m still subbed and watch all your videos. You are just a really good presenter.
Rex your oldtimer “marking knife” brought back so many memories of my childhood. I had the same pattern knife as one of my first pocket knives. I loved it. I made countless cuts into countless objects it never failed to take a razor edge. So many cleaned fish birds and mammals man I miss that Lil knife. Thank you for a great video and awesome memory. Off to make a fish head marking gauge :)
Enjoy the vid as always great delivery and story Rex. I was surprised that you did not take the scribe bar out and turn it 90 degrees to scribe the large dimension with full registration on the board edge of the board with the full length of bn the tool! With a little practice a broken drill will hold it edge better than a nail! If you grind it like a wood woodworkers screwdriver and sharpen with a large radius you will get a fin e cut line. Or just buy a replacement round cutter and mount to the end of the bar! Great channel Rex.
10:43 some time ago i was trying to fix my hand cranked drill. Got a pile of shavings/chips/sawdust on the ground next to the table. I was trying to disassemble the drill, I took out some screws, removed front cover and proceeded to pull out the shank with the chuck on the end. It was a bit stuck so I used quite a bit of force. After a few seconds of struggling the parts finally came apart and immediately after that steel rain hit the ground. Between the body of the drill and a rim on the shank was a circular groove containing around thirty three-milimeter ball bearings. When I removed the shank, half of them stayed in place, while the other fifteen spread everywhere around my workshop and inevitably some of them ended in the pile of shaving I mentioned before. After couple of minutes of swearing, cursing everything in this world and looking into every corner of the poorly lighted workshop I managed to collect about ten balls, leaving the shavings as the only place possible to find the rest. It took me two days to go through all of the mess, taking it almost a shaving by shaving, all the time being afraid that I have missed out on any of the balls. However, at the end I found them all. You should never underestimate the power of determined idiot.
I have a very large round magnet that can thread onto the end of a broom handle. I've found parts dropped in the grass, wherever. Indispensable for us challenged folks!
I've always had problems with common marking gauges not staying registered resulting in wandering lines. So, suitably inspired, I've taken a chunk of mahogany handrail that's been kicking around for 20 years and am turning it into something useful. Thanks for the inspiration.
If your marking gauges are all "Pin" gauges, you may also want to consider trying a "Knife" gauge. They cut both across and with the grain w/o wandering - if you remember to install the triangular cross sectioned blade with the flat facing out (away) and the opposite side of the blade pointed in (towards) the adjustable fence. (That pulls the fence tight to the reference surface and makes it much easier to scribe an accurate gauge line in your workpiece.)
The grasshopper, was an indispensable tool for 19th Century, curved, handrail manufacture. This was because, nearly all curved and twisted handrail, was cut and shaped from short, solid segments of wood. The long leg enabled the guage to be held against the side (usually the convex surface) of a squared handrail segment, while reaching over a twisted or beveled top and scribing the parallel, inside surface. The nail point was often replaced by a pencil, which was also able to be moved up and down. I used a homemade version for years and can honestly say, there is nothing else that really works.
Hi Rex. I picked up a marking of similar dimensions but with no wedge at all. It has such hard old oak surfaces internallythat it grips and I just adjust it with a tap on the bench. Great video... you and Paul Sellers have got me doing a lot of hobbyist woodwork and loving it, here in the locked down UK.
As usual an interesting and instructive video resulting in a useful addition to the toolbox. However, without knowing the actual dimensions of the beam, which appears rectangular, I would suggest that the beam could be made square in section to allow it to be rotated 90 degrees either left or right in the mortise. Thus allowing the stock greater registration on the board edge when marking the face of wide boards.
Hi you have a nice pattern makers gauge there . Used for marking out shapes on wooden Patterns before being cast in metal. Will have been made by the user. Thanks for sharing.
C1973 my woodwork teacher taught us [an alternate way] to grip the gauge by placing the index finger on the back of the pointer and grip the fence [in modern terms] like holding a computer mouse. Its not for putting tons of pressure on the pointer, but it means your hand is pushing towards the face the gauge is referencing from. But, of course, whatever provides a clean accurate mark is the way to go!
According to R A Salamanin his book Dictionary of Woodworking Tools this is a Grasshopper or Handrail gauge. The book has an illustration of a pencil version. He says it is used for riding over projections or marking in hollows or sinkings
The gauge with a radiused Fence is a wheelwrights gauge used mainly on the rim sections. You are close with carriages but they go back before then to cart and wheel barrow wheels.
That looks like a great tool. I'd probably put cutting wheel (or circle, as it doesn't rotate like a wheel) right on the end of the beam. That way if you had a workpiece flat down with reference up, you could mark the thickness right the way round all at once with that thick face of the marking guage tight to the reference face. I also find it good for measuring depth if the cutter is on the end. Looks incredibly useful though.
@@sketrus217 as long as you don't blame me when it goes wrong because I hadn't thought of an obvious reason why it might be a bad idea! Given you'd be attaching the wheel into end grain at the end of the beam, you might be best with a threaded insert (or wooden threads if you have a tap) to get a good fixing. That's possibly why it wasn't done this way in the past.
MIGHT I interject??? Go to a hardware shop and look up "T Nuts"... These are interesting little "inserts" with a threaded tube in the center of a "washer" with three "teeth" arranged around the outside edge of the same washer... (quotes because most traditional washers are flat)... What you do is "mike" the tube, and then drill right into your endgrain project... a dob of glue later, and you can shove the T Nut into place and whack it with a hammer so the teeth around the outer edge "bite" such as it is... NOW any threaded doo-dah will fasten right in... The other method (one I use most often because building my own tools and gauges is cheap) is to drill into the endgrain with a bit about 1/32 to 1/16 inch LESS than the diameter of your intended screw... drive the screw in once and immediately retrieve it,.. THEN get a washer (I love these because I can harden AND sharpen them) sharpened and prepped for the job... Carefully (I'd advise using a pair of hemostats or forceps to hold it) hold the washer in place and with a slather of excellent adhesive (I often use super glue, contact cement or some Gorilla variant of those) applied to the screw threads, return it to the hole, and set the washer fast to the end with it... This requires matching (even where Dremeling and gauging is required, just do it...) washers to screws specifically... BUT I've worked with two such gauges and the washers do a wonderful job riding right through the fibers and grain of the wood so long as I don't apply too much force (concept of judgment here) in the first stroke... They work pretty close to a Japanese Bladed or Cutting gauge, and with really fine cross-grain work, they're excellent at just snapping off all the waste in a few strokes... rather than trying to find a fine enough saw for the job or wasting effort farting around with X-acto's.... ;o)
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 interesting approach. I've never really liked wing nuts for some unexplained reason. I suspect one offended me once by not working as intended (because of my own error of course)! I don't like washers because the ones I have are always too hard to sharpen. In the past I've just used an old plane blade and cut or drilled a circle out of it. I also would countersink the hole that the screw/bolt goes through so that the screw head doesn't stick out proud of the cutter. Just so you can use as a depth stop to set a distance on the guage.
I have one of these!! The wedge on mine is done like the one you built. If you see it on the ends of the beam you can tell He adjusted it just as you described by tapping the ends. Looks like it got a lot of use.
Again Rex, great back ground and history behind the tool. Well thought out advantages compared to traditional gauges. Your comment about the 4 inch limit in the traditional gauge is dead on. I find even the modern round metal disc gauges with the round cutter succumb to this limitation. I think this is a real winner for every shop. Thank you
I think I may build one and put a disc-shaped marker on the beam, larger around than the beam so that it can be used at a 90 degree with the entire length of the fence riding along the work! oooh yes this is a handy tool.
If you put a cutting wheel on the end in place of the pin you could use the extra length of the handle to hold it more firmly against the reference face when you are marking with the beam a long what out.
If the beam has square profile, you can rotate it 90 to have a very long fence. I do want to make a fence like yours and put my disc marking gauge beam in it.
Great video and interesting bit of history. Thank you for your hard work. Avoiding using sandpaper is to protect your carving chisels and rasps. It's not that you can't use sandpaper but rather it should be the last thing to touch the wood because once used the inbeded grit will dull your tools more quickly.
It looks like you can rotate the marking bar 90º and use the gauge with the ling edge of the "handle" to follow the edge of the piece to be marked. This would make marking a long distance from the edge easier and less prone to wobble.
I have seen these in antique shops, but not very often. Mostly around Kentucky/Virginia/Tennesee hills area shops. Less common in shops outside that area. I have only seen one in a flea market outside the bluegrass hills. Common, I suppose, depends on geographic location.
Love this one (it’s basically a small panel gauge); I’m excited about building one but will probably put off until just before my Anarchist’s Toolchest build (probably in July). Thank you Rex... you’ve really hit a good stride my friend. Remember it’s a marathon not a sprint. Looking forward to you starting your first long form/multi episode group build of a furniture piece or shop furniture. It’s time to get the first years ‘students’ of the wood working for humans into their second year with the addition of an ‘annual project’ of sorts. S/F, Shannon
Good video thanks. Maybe have a go at making one of these. I have wondered about standard woodworking guages before and why they remain popular - many of the alternative designs seem to be better.
You're always bringing interesting history to us as well as demonstrating how useful some niche tools can be. Love your content. Thanks for your heard work!
Used to use a tool similar to this workin metal for an old farmer, had thread tighten instead of mortises. He called it a fish eye scribe. Never seen one since, guess I know why now.
Rex, for marking deep into the face of a board, from the edge, could you not turn the beam 90*, to put more of the fence in contact with the edge, to make it even more stable?
Looks like a large one sided luthier's gramil. A gramil tends to be vertical on both sides of the handle with one face curved and the other flat. That way the beam can be flipped to follow straight or curved edges. A gramil will also typically have a blade rather than a pin allowing it to start narrow cuts for small rebates and things like that.
I don`t understand this. If you are marking an edge for certain the fish head guide has more surface contact ,but if you are marking the face the traditional one actually has nearly twice the surface contact and if you are further out from the edge your panel guage will work far better than the fish one because it`s wide stock is especially designed for the stability for the stability problems you discussed, for which the traditional gauge would also,as I mentioned, do a better job. I think the fish gauge is a special tool only for marking edges which is the only area that can possibly compete with the others. But even then only in one directional axis.
Still love the idea of some viewer's work tables. Getting your opinions. Thats a dope marking gauge. Need one for my new job. I'm the only guy there using old school tools. Yet was only getting shit for it until it was the only tool capable of doing the job on site. So now I don't gotta threaten to quit if I can't bring my hand plane on job sites.
Very nice tool indeed. I've always felt that the fence in the "normal" marking gauge was too short and I was thinking of making a Japanese style gauge, but this might be a good alternative. Thanks
Some thoughts on the copper insert I was thinking that someone like a carriage maker would use it a lot and was likely resetting it quite often without the copper there would be quite a bit of rubbing two pieces of wood against each other causing wear over time. Also when pushing the wedge in with wood on wood you may deform the beam. So interesting to me with no formal training in wood working. I made a marking gauge the overall shape is close to what you have.
So, I have been putting off making a marking gauge for a while. I saw this one and I think it has some advantages over the smaller one. In particular The much larger surface. The question I have is: why make a traditional versus the fish head style? I think I will have to build one of each.
CAPITALS DUE TO PARTIAL SIGHT AND REDUCED COGNITIVE ABILITIES.. YET ANOTHER EDUCATIONAL VIDEO. THANK YOU REX BEAUTIFUL OLD TOOLS BEHIND YOU SO WHY USE A NASTY THROW AWAY SAW? TRY A PANEI MARKING GAUGE FOR PARALLEL LINES AT A DISTANCE FROM FROM THE EDGE. THANKS MICHAEL
I really like it - the large fence makes a ton of sense to me. However, for marking lines that are far away from an edge, I like to use a combination square and a marking knife - I just don’t mind that it’s slow and you need both hands.
For setting the gauge, what about putting the pin on the line/mark and holding it there while you tap the body tight to the work? Will that go horribly wrong?
@@RexKrueger that's what I do when I need a very precise measurement. I make a nick with mi calipers on a piece of wood, loosen the beam of my marking gauge, place the pin in the nick, set the fence to the edge of the wood, and tighten the bolt that holds the beam in place. I thought it was pretty standard procedure.
That's pretty awesome 👌. I think it would be even more convenient if it had a ruler or registration lines on it so you could easily set the score line at a specific depth.
I've seen a few similar gauges. I helped get the propper money for some tools. And there must have been 25 different marking gauges. The guy had restored boats and baby carriages, and he was a bit of a hoarder.
Where do have these traditional holdfasts bought from? I like hem more than these complex hightech clamps and there seems to be only one (too expensive) supplier in Germany.
@@smashyrashy Essentially, by studying traditional woodworking methods, we engage in what is called experimental archeology - the method with which modern historians try to understand the life of common people, or even realities of warfare.
Rex Great videos man! Love your home made tools. I been trying to figure out how to make a simple Gramil tool for cutting Guitar binding channels. Do you think you could figure that out and do a video?
Rex! I was thinking about this copper slice... maybe it is to allow adjustability while it is wedged without losening it? Or this idea is totally wrong?
My guess is it was originally setup without the copper like Rex has done here. But over a long time with lots of use the fibers in the wedge where it contacts the beam got compressed and were no longer 'grippy', and rather than re-make the wedge he just inserted the copper to solve the problem. Who knows...
Shouldn’t the marking arm be able to be taken out, rotated 90 in any direction and put back in place so the reference length of the tool can be in contact with the necessary part of the work while the nail is pointing down into the work?
One question I have: As a sharpened washer on the end of the beam allows you to rotate the marking gauge as you see fit as you drag it, why do 99% of gauges use pins, instead?
Sometimes, a wheel-shaped cutter will get grabbed by the grain and pulled off course. Clearly, lots of people like wheel cutters, but some of us just like the pin.
@@RexKrueger Ah, good point; I hadn't considered that. What about a spur, then? I've used a tailor's wheel a number of times for marking lines and the points leave a nice, sharp, dotted line that almost completely ignores the grain.
Honestly, it's a very poor way to mortise. The chisel is more likely to twist in the hole and you don't get good registration. Drilling makes sense for unusual mortises, but for regular ones, it doesn't help, in my opinion.
The first half of the ua-cam.com/users/postUgkx3ICSK6nSknaL_45CU2NmFSoXjarGMDiJ book is everything about wood: types, tools, finishes, setting up shop etc. The second half is all about doing projects for inside and outside of the home. The color pictures are helpful. After reading a dozen of these types of books, this is probably the best overall (layout, color photos, plans). Only detraction is that many of the projects use a table saw/router/planer, which are usually expensive and take up space, so the plans are less friendly to newcomers and the budget conscious. But I know I can use a drill, circular saw or a jigsaw to make the projects.
This channel has upped my woodworking quality to the point I'm now getting requests for work, and finishing up my first ever piece of furniture. Cheers Rex!
That is really amazing! Nice!
What you have there is a coopering gauge used by barrel makers. The copper sheet shim is a wear plate because wood to wood contact would cause the fence to wear out very quickly.
Copper and Bronze make excellent low friction wearing plates. That's why traditional English marking gauges usually have brass inserts in the fence face. End grain is very abrasive.
Sometimes on really high quality ebony gauges the entire gauge block fence would be brass plated for maximum wear resistance.
Cooper's tend to make a lot of their own tools because they are so specialised. Coach builder's also use large gauges but that one is for marking the relief of the edge of the barrel by running the fence around the inside.
I love the idea that tool historians in the future will wonder why particular seemingly arbitrary radius began to appear on amateur woodwoorker's home made tools all at about the same time across the world in the late 2010s/early 2020s.
Ha!
@Dawson Ezekiel
I will confirm for the rest of us, no one does give a damn.
Whats even better is the tools history 100 plus years prior to 2020. Andi ts use
How many would know that they are using s forgotten tool.
How many times have you wished you had something no one makes, but they were widely used 100 plus years go.
The historical value alone was worth watching this.
I love how easy is it to follow your tutorials. The historic information is always an interesting bonus, too. Plus, your voice seems to make this stick in a way that is highly memorable and easy to recall.
i like ur new haircut rex
Which one?
😂😂😂
@@dancingbearbelly he cut that hair that was over his ear
I almost forgot, I was watching a video on youtube. No tablesaw, no router, no drillpress, just amazing handtool based woodwork. Great to see the channel growing so fast.
congrats to (almost) 1/4 mil subs
"It also looks like I've made a little wooden robot. Awesome."
I love your priorities.
My grandfather has made one of these years ago out of steel for marking sheet metal
Wow, as a little kid i recall my grandfather as a carpenter, over the years he left his toolbox under the cellar and he had one of these and other hand made wooden tools; i later in life found out what they were!🙂🙂
Thanks. I had made a flush marking gauge from a chunk of scrap, a ground-off allen wrench, and a 1/4-20 thumbscrew that I wasn't happy with, and when I saw your video, I rebuilt it along this design and am now very pleased with it.
My marking bar is a 7/32 Allen Wrench, with most of the arm ground off, leaving only about 1/4" of tooth, sort of like a router. My handle is about the same, with a round hole for the allen wrench, some carving to allow the tooth to seat fully in the handle, but my locking wedge is only about 1/4+ x 3/8x 3". I used firewood cherry for both parts.
A neat trick I learned for the tiny mortise was to drag a narrow strip of sandpaper between the top edge of the wedge and the top of the mortise to do fine adjustments. Each drag of the sandpaper between the
Also, I found that if you tap the stuck locking wedge on something, it doesn't fly or need the peg -- The wedge is stopped dead by the table and the handle moves and unlocks.
I'm planning on making a bigger gauge more like your design, since I'm so happy with how well my rebuild of my old hack works.
I have absolutely no interest in woodworking or taking up woodworking in the future. But I’m still subbed and watch all your videos.
You are just a really good presenter.
I made your nailed blanket chest very proud of myself. Good video!
I would love to see it!
Rex your oldtimer “marking knife” brought back so many memories of my childhood. I had the same pattern knife as one of my first pocket knives. I loved it. I made countless cuts into countless objects it never failed to take a razor edge. So many cleaned fish birds and mammals man I miss that Lil knife. Thank you for a great video and awesome memory. Off to make a fish head marking gauge :)
Enjoy the vid as always great delivery and story Rex.
I was surprised that you did not take the scribe bar out and turn it 90 degrees to scribe the large dimension with full registration on the board edge of the board with the full length of bn the tool!
With a little practice a broken drill will hold it edge better than a nail! If you grind it like a wood woodworkers screwdriver and sharpen with a large radius you will get a fin e cut line. Or just buy a replacement round cutter and mount to the end of the bar!
Great channel Rex.
I thought the scribe should be 90 degrees to the fence, too.
Damn it Rex, I'm trying to build the cam lock marking gauge, but you keep bring up new and awesome ones and other stuff that I want to make
10:43 some time ago i was trying to fix my hand cranked drill. Got a pile of shavings/chips/sawdust on the ground next to the table. I was trying to disassemble the drill, I took out some screws, removed front cover and proceeded to pull out the shank with the chuck on the end. It was a bit stuck so I used quite a bit of force. After a few seconds of struggling the parts finally came apart and immediately after that steel rain hit the ground.
Between the body of the drill and a rim on the shank was a circular groove containing around thirty three-milimeter ball bearings. When I removed the shank, half of them stayed in place, while the other fifteen spread everywhere around my workshop and inevitably some of them ended in the pile of shaving I mentioned before.
After couple of minutes of swearing, cursing everything in this world and looking into every corner of the poorly lighted workshop I managed to collect about ten balls, leaving the shavings as the only place possible to find the rest. It took me two days to go through all of the mess, taking it almost a shaving by shaving, all the time being afraid that I have missed out on any of the balls. However, at the end I found them all. You should never underestimate the power of determined idiot.
I have a very large round magnet that can thread onto the end of a broom handle. I've found parts dropped in the grass, wherever. Indispensable for us challenged folks!
I've always had problems with common marking gauges not staying registered resulting in wandering lines. So, suitably inspired, I've taken a chunk of mahogany handrail that's been kicking around for 20 years and am turning it into something useful. Thanks for the inspiration.
If your marking gauges are all "Pin" gauges, you may also want to consider trying a "Knife" gauge. They cut both across and with the grain w/o wandering - if you remember to install the triangular cross sectioned blade with the flat facing out (away) and the opposite side of the blade pointed in (towards) the adjustable fence. (That pulls the fence tight to the reference surface and makes it much easier to scribe an accurate gauge line in your workpiece.)
The grasshopper, was an indispensable tool for 19th Century, curved, handrail manufacture. This was because, nearly all curved and twisted handrail, was cut and shaped from short, solid segments of wood. The long leg enabled the guage to be held against the side (usually the convex surface) of a squared handrail segment, while reaching over a twisted or beveled top and scribing the parallel, inside surface. The nail point was often replaced by a pencil, which was also able to be moved up and down.
I used a homemade version for years and can honestly say, there is nothing else that really works.
Bravo: love the fact that you share particular tools . Rare . Cheers to you .
Hi Rex. I picked up a marking of similar dimensions but with no wedge at all. It has such hard old oak surfaces internallythat it grips and I just adjust it with a tap on the bench. Great video... you and Paul Sellers have got me doing a lot of hobbyist woodwork and loving it, here in the locked down UK.
As usual an interesting and instructive video resulting in a useful addition to the toolbox. However, without knowing the actual dimensions of the beam, which appears rectangular, I would suggest that the beam could be made square in section to allow it to be rotated 90 degrees either left or right in the mortise. Thus allowing the stock greater registration on the board edge when marking the face of wide boards.
Hi you have a nice pattern makers gauge there . Used for marking out shapes on wooden Patterns before being cast in metal. Will have been made by the user. Thanks for sharing.
I really enjoyed this, I often use draw gauges in leather crafts, for making belts.straps,laces.
C1973 my woodwork teacher taught us [an alternate way] to grip the gauge by placing the index finger on the back of the pointer and grip the fence [in modern terms] like holding a computer mouse. Its not for putting tons of pressure on the pointer, but it means your hand is pushing towards the face the gauge is referencing from. But, of course, whatever provides a clean accurate mark is the way to go!
According to R A Salamanin his book Dictionary of Woodworking Tools this is a Grasshopper or Handrail gauge. The book has an illustration of a pencil version. He says it is used for riding over projections or marking in hollows or sinkings
Like the guage. Love Quercus. I now have a new model of plane to watch for. Thanks.
The gauge with a radiused Fence is a wheelwrights gauge used mainly on the rim sections. You are close with carriages but they go back before then to cart and wheel barrow wheels.
Very nice idea. I went ahead and made one of these. The longer fence works so well! I'm going to make a mortise version today.
That looks like a great tool. I'd probably put cutting wheel (or circle, as it doesn't rotate like a wheel) right on the end of the beam. That way if you had a workpiece flat down with reference up, you could mark the thickness right the way round all at once with that thick face of the marking guage tight to the reference face. I also find it good for measuring depth if the cutter is on the end. Looks incredibly useful though.
Hope you dont mind if i take this idea when i build mine.
@@sketrus217 as long as you don't blame me when it goes wrong because I hadn't thought of an obvious reason why it might be a bad idea! Given you'd be attaching the wheel into end grain at the end of the beam, you might be best with a threaded insert (or wooden threads if you have a tap) to get a good fixing. That's possibly why it wasn't done this way in the past.
MIGHT I interject???
Go to a hardware shop and look up "T Nuts"...
These are interesting little "inserts" with a threaded tube in the center of a "washer" with three "teeth" arranged around the outside edge of the same washer... (quotes because most traditional washers are flat)...
What you do is "mike" the tube, and then drill right into your endgrain project... a dob of glue later, and you can shove the T Nut into place and whack it with a hammer so the teeth around the outer edge "bite" such as it is... NOW any threaded doo-dah will fasten right in...
The other method (one I use most often because building my own tools and gauges is cheap) is to drill into the endgrain with a bit about 1/32 to 1/16 inch LESS than the diameter of your intended screw... drive the screw in once and immediately retrieve it,.. THEN get a washer (I love these because I can harden AND sharpen them) sharpened and prepped for the job... Carefully (I'd advise using a pair of hemostats or forceps to hold it) hold the washer in place and with a slather of excellent adhesive (I often use super glue, contact cement or some Gorilla variant of those) applied to the screw threads, return it to the hole, and set the washer fast to the end with it... This requires matching (even where Dremeling and gauging is required, just do it...) washers to screws specifically... BUT I've worked with two such gauges and the washers do a wonderful job riding right through the fibers and grain of the wood so long as I don't apply too much force (concept of judgment here) in the first stroke... They work pretty close to a Japanese Bladed or Cutting gauge, and with really fine cross-grain work, they're excellent at just snapping off all the waste in a few strokes... rather than trying to find a fine enough saw for the job or wasting effort farting around with X-acto's.... ;o)
I already did works great
@@gnarthdarkanen7464 interesting approach. I've never really liked wing nuts for some unexplained reason. I suspect one offended me once by not working as intended (because of my own error of course)!
I don't like washers because the ones I have are always too hard to sharpen. In the past I've just used an old plane blade and cut or drilled a circle out of it. I also would countersink the hole that the screw/bolt goes through so that the screw head doesn't stick out proud of the cutter. Just so you can use as a depth stop to set a distance on the guage.
I have one of these!! The wedge on mine is done like the one you built. If you see it on the ends of the beam you can tell He adjusted it just as you described by tapping the ends. Looks like it got a lot of use.
I’m a journeyman sheet metal worker and we use gauges similar to this all the time on tin.
Again Rex, great back ground and history behind the tool. Well thought out advantages compared to traditional gauges. Your comment about the 4 inch limit in the traditional gauge is dead on. I find even the modern round metal disc gauges with the round cutter succumb to this limitation. I think this is a real winner for every shop. Thank you
Thank you!
I think I may build one and put a disc-shaped marker on the beam, larger around than the beam so that it can be used at a 90 degree with the entire length of the fence riding along the work! oooh yes this is a handy tool.
As soon as I saw the rounded face of the fence I immediately thought it might be a coopers tool. Thanks for the post.
It's totally possible that some coopers used this tool.
If you put a cutting wheel on the end in place of the pin you could use the extra length of the handle to hold it more firmly against the reference face when you are marking with the beam a long what out.
I'm glad I found this. I think that guage will be really useful in violin making
Really clever and interesting tool. Thank you for sharing.
If the beam has square profile, you can rotate it 90 to have a very long fence.
I do want to make a fence like yours and put my disc marking gauge beam in it.
I had the same thought I think it's a great idea
@@allenknowles3663, So, like a dear friend used to say: "Great minds travel in the same rut". Hey, works for me.
Never seen that type before buddy . Bravo .
My dad taught me some wood working with one of these that his dad owned. It was jarring going to school and using the English ones in wood tech.
Very cool. I'm going to try making one with a dowel for the beam so the blade can be oriented to get more fence on thin edges. Thanks for the idea!
Great video and interesting bit of history. Thank you for your hard work.
Avoiding using sandpaper is to protect your carving chisels and rasps. It's not that you can't use sandpaper but rather it should be the last thing to touch the wood because once used the inbeded grit will dull your tools more quickly.
I love how down to earth you are, Rex!
It looks like you can rotate the marking bar 90º and use the gauge with the ling edge of the "handle" to follow the edge of the piece to be marked. This would make marking a long distance from the edge easier and less prone to wobble.
My dad has one like that, I didn't realize it was uncommon
I've never seen one of these fishhead ones. I kind of like it.
It's not uncommon.
@@SpaceDave3000 Rex made it sound like it was uncommon...donno
I have seen these in antique shops, but not very often. Mostly around Kentucky/Virginia/Tennesee hills area shops. Less common in shops outside that area. I have only seen one in a flea market outside the bluegrass hills. Common, I suppose, depends on geographic location.
@@thomasarussellsr caribean diaspora, where so many invented tools to make their work easier!
Love this one (it’s basically a small panel gauge); I’m excited about building one but will probably put off until just before my Anarchist’s Toolchest build (probably in July). Thank you Rex... you’ve really hit a good stride my friend. Remember it’s a marathon not a sprint. Looking forward to you starting your first long form/multi episode group build of a furniture piece or shop furniture. It’s time to get the first years ‘students’ of the wood working for humans into their second year with the addition of an ‘annual project’ of sorts.
S/F, Shannon
Good video thanks. Maybe have a go at making one of these. I have wondered about standard woodworking guages before and why they remain popular - many of the alternative designs seem to be better.
If the mortises overlap a litte bit more the wedge can have a stop that only alow the wedge to come out if you remove the beam first.
This was impressiv! Thank you Rex. Regards from Germany.
What a wonderful presentation of a wonderful tool. I want make.
cheers from cool Vienna, Scott
You're always bringing interesting history to us as well as demonstrating how useful some niche tools can be. Love your content. Thanks for your heard work!
Lee Valley sells Quercus hand tool magazine as well.
Used to use a tool similar to this workin metal for an old farmer, had thread tighten instead of mortises. He called it a fish eye scribe. Never seen one since, guess I know why now.
You're the second person to say this is from the metal working world!
Great tool, Krueger!
Gonna have to make one of those!
Rex, for marking deep into the face of a board, from the edge, could you not
turn the beam 90*, to put more of the fence in contact with the edge, to make
it even more stable?
So, last night, I binged your whole lather series.
Any chance we can see plans for that lathe? I'm a buyer as soon as it shows up.
Nah, that thing didn't end up good enough for plans. Too many little problems.
@@RexKrueger totally understandable man. Thanks for the reply
Nice video! That’s a neat tool....I’ll be adding it to my list of things to make. Thanks, Rex!
Looks like a large one sided luthier's gramil. A gramil tends to be vertical on both sides of the handle with one face curved and the other flat. That way the beam can be flipped to follow straight or curved edges. A gramil will also typically have a blade rather than a pin allowing it to start narrow cuts for small rebates and things like that.
I don`t understand this. If you are marking an edge for certain the fish head guide has more surface contact ,but if you are marking the face the traditional one actually has nearly twice the surface contact and if you are further out from the edge your panel guage will work far better than the fish one because it`s wide stock is especially designed for the stability for the stability problems you discussed, for which the traditional gauge would also,as I mentioned, do a better job. I think the fish gauge is a special tool only for marking edges which is the only area that can possibly compete with the others. But even then only in one directional axis.
Yes, looks like old time leather cutter. They have cutters instead of pins. Long handle to exert pressure to cut.
I just started wood working and have already found frustration on the traditional gauges, I will have to build this. It looks way more comfortable.
Very Cool Marking Gauge !!!!!!!!!!!
I love it, making one tomorrow. It will be very handy.
Neat gauge. Well built!
Still love the idea of some viewer's work tables. Getting your opinions. Thats a dope marking gauge. Need one for my new job. I'm the only guy there using old school tools. Yet was only getting shit for it until it was the only tool capable of doing the job on site. So now I don't gotta threaten to quit if I can't bring my hand plane on job sites.
I used to be that guy at furniture shops. Brought a whole little box of hand tools each day.
@@RexKrueger that's awesome man. Keep up the great work!
Very good video Rex!!!
Very nice tool indeed. I've always felt that the fence in the "normal" marking gauge was too short and I was thinking of making a Japanese style gauge, but this might be a good alternative. Thanks
Great video Rex.
it seems almost like a halfway house between a panel gauge and a traditional marking gauge
Some thoughts on the copper insert
I was thinking that someone like a carriage maker would use it a lot and was likely resetting it quite often without the copper there would be quite a bit of rubbing two pieces of wood against each other causing wear over time. Also when pushing the wedge in with wood on wood you may deform the beam. So interesting to me with no formal training in wood working. I made a marking gauge the overall shape is close to what you have.
So, I have been putting off making a marking gauge for a while. I saw this one and I think it has some advantages over the smaller one. In particular The much larger surface. The question I have is: why make a traditional versus the fish head style? I think I will have to build one of each.
Might be nice to make one with a convex shape on the fence for marking round curves too. Nice work Rex! Aah, ok I just got to it
BTW: Looked like some Roy Underhill chisel work when you were shaping against the planing stop; sans suspenders of course 🤪
Cool tool. I think I will make a flat fence and a radius fence.
Same basic design as a purfling cutter for instrument making - that was my first thought when seeing it, then I noticed the screw instead of a cutter!
That's a pretty interesting gauge indeed, Rex! 😃
Thanks a lot!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
CAPITALS DUE TO PARTIAL SIGHT AND REDUCED COGNITIVE ABILITIES..
YET ANOTHER EDUCATIONAL VIDEO. THANK YOU REX
BEAUTIFUL OLD TOOLS BEHIND YOU SO WHY USE A NASTY THROW AWAY SAW?
TRY A PANEI MARKING GAUGE FOR PARALLEL LINES AT A DISTANCE FROM FROM THE EDGE.
THANKS MICHAEL
I'm not using a nasty saw. It's a bahco and it's sharpenable. I use affordable tools so people can see me doing projects affordably.
I really like it - the large fence makes a ton of sense to me. However, for marking lines that are far away from an edge, I like to use a combination square and a marking knife - I just don’t mind that it’s slow and you need both hands.
I’ve got two one has a simple square stock with a flat face one side and radius the other it’s perfect for scribing curves.
I had a close look at them and I have got three one has two beads formed at each edge of the stock presumably for scribing inside curves.
For setting the gauge, what about putting the pin on the line/mark and holding it there while you tap the body tight to the work? Will that go horribly wrong?
I think you'll put a scratch right across your work while you're setting the gauge, but I haven't tried it, so I don't know.
@@RexKrueger Thank you
@@RexKrueger that's what I do when I need a very precise measurement. I make a nick with mi calipers on a piece of wood, loosen the beam of my marking gauge, place the pin in the nick, set the fence to the edge of the wood, and tighten the bolt that holds the beam in place.
I thought it was pretty standard procedure.
I wonder if the copper strip was original or if it was added later to compensate for wear.
That's pretty awesome 👌. I think it would be even more convenient if it had a ruler or registration lines on it so you could easily set the score line at a specific depth.
Fish heads. Fish heads. Eat them up, YUM!
I loved hearing that song on Dr. Demento. I really miss that show.
I've seen a few similar gauges. I helped get the propper money for some tools. And there must have been 25 different marking gauges. The guy had restored boats and baby carriages, and he was a bit of a hoarder.
Very interesting, Rex.
Where do have these traditional holdfasts bought from?
I like hem more than these complex hightech clamps and there seems to be only one (too expensive) supplier in Germany.
There's a hint of experimental archeology on wood working and it's so cool to see Rex coming to the dark side - Mua ha ha ha-
What
@@smashyrashy Essentially, by studying traditional woodworking methods, we engage in what is called experimental archeology - the method with which modern historians try to understand the life of common people, or even realities of warfare.
@@runakovacs4759 well technically yes
Rex Great videos man! Love your home made tools. I been trying to figure out how to make a simple Gramil tool for cutting Guitar binding channels. Do you think you could figure that out and do a video?
Sweet gauge. More great information Rex, thanks for a job well done. 👍🏻
Great guage there, thank you for the idea.
Rex! I was thinking about this copper slice... maybe it is to allow adjustability while it is wedged without losening it? Or this idea is totally wrong?
My guess is it was originally setup without the copper like Rex has done here. But over a long time with lots of use the fibers in the wedge where it contacts the beam got compressed and were no longer 'grippy', and rather than re-make the wedge he just inserted the copper to solve the problem. Who knows...
Shouldn’t the marking arm be able to be taken out, rotated 90 in any direction and put back in place so the reference length of the tool can be in contact with the necessary part of the work while the nail is pointing down into the work?
thank you Rex
One question I have: As a sharpened washer on the end of the beam allows you to rotate the marking gauge as you see fit as you drag it, why do 99% of gauges use pins, instead?
Sometimes, a wheel-shaped cutter will get grabbed by the grain and pulled off course. Clearly, lots of people like wheel cutters, but some of us just like the pin.
@@RexKrueger Ah, good point; I hadn't considered that. What about a spur, then? I've used a tailor's wheel a number of times for marking lines and the points leave a nice, sharp, dotted line that almost completely ignores the grain.
Hi Rex Again very informative video. Why don't you drill a hole through the center of the mortise to remove the bulk of material?
Honestly, it's a very poor way to mortise. The chisel is more likely to twist in the hole and you don't get good registration. Drilling makes sense for unusual mortises, but for regular ones, it doesn't help, in my opinion.
@@RexKrueger Thanks Rex.
Couldn’t you combine this gauge with your earlier cam lock marking gauge making it with round beams and locking pin with a longer fish head fence?
You could, but I like to make a straight copy the first time and then fiddle with it once I understand the original.
I'm kinda late but truely glade you brought it up, but how do you feel about the moravian bench?
It certainly looks great in pictures!
If the marking pin rod was round, the marking pin could be adjusted (rotated) so that more of the flat edge would register along the reference face.
It seems like if the arm is square should be able to rotate it 90° and run the body along a narrow edge for even more stability.