Intersex: A Third Sex Category?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Those who claim that biological sex is not binary, but rather a spectrum of possibilities, will often use intersex to argue their case. To many, such variation shows us that the male-female binary is unreliable, that there are more than two sexes, and that sex is a spectrum. But, is this true?
*This video was re-issued thanks to feedback from developmental biologists and intersex individuals.
Download the transcripts to our videos from our website:
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Scientific Literature:
[1] Sekido, R., Lovell-Badge, R. (2009). Sex determination and SRY, Down to a wink and a nudge. Trends in Genetics, 25(1).
[2] Kashimada, K., Koopman, P. (2010). Sry, the master switch in mammalian sex determination. Development, 137.
[3] Kimball, J. (2020). Sex chromosomes. LibreText.org.
[4] Gilbert, SF. (2000). Chromosomal sex determination in mammals. Developmental Biology, 6th edition. Sunderland (MA), Sinauer Associates.
[5] Wizemann, TM., Pardue ML, editors. (2001). Sex begins in the womb. Exploring the biological contributions to human health: Does sex matter? US Institute of Medicine.
[6] Carlson, B. (2014). Chapter 16, Urogenital System. Human Embryology and Developmental Biology. 404-407.
[7] Graham, C. (2019). Is sex a spectrum? Sex determination and differentiation. MRKHVoice.
[8] Loof, A. (2018). Only two sex forms but multiple gender variants. Communicative & Integrative Biology, 11(1).
[9] Cox, P., Togashi, T. (2011). The Evolution of Anisogamy, A Fundamental Phenomenon Underlying Sexual Selection. New York Cambridge University Press.
Contributors to this video:
[1] Claire (@intersexfacts)
[2] Rae (@RaeUK)
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After this vid, I wanted to find out more about intersex biology but only came up with conflated ideology being passed as "biology". Where can I find more factual video's about intersex biology that isn't tainted by gender ideology? The biology part is super fascinating, not because of gender but because I always thought it was in-between too! You learn something new every day!
Toshi yaar We are partnering with intersex individuals to make a video series on intersex. Each video will cover the biology of a single intersex condition. Not sure on the timeframe for it, but we’ll keep everyone updated. There are about 10 major intersex conditions, so the video series will be quite extensive.
@Josh the Art Critic this is so interesting!
@Josh the Art Critic Seeing as though intersex is a political label, and not a medical term, we agree. Look up differences in sex development or variations in sex characteristics combined with the specific condition to get more accurate answers about the biology.
@@ParadoxInstitute Oooooh I can't wait to see these videos!
Look up information about xxy females on the PubMed website. Some of them have given birth, but it's exceedingly rare.
Even if that was a good argument - how many trans people are actually intersex? I respect all people but I can't respect a lie.
How many lgbt people don't know that they were altered at birth though? A lot I bet. I'm sure that's the reason they are so confused an grew up feeling different.
Personal identity has nothing to do with sex
cécilia slepmet He literally said that.
Yes, and women are adults human female
@@Weederzful Huh?
Yes, sex is binary, personal identity is unique. You are correct.
@@archieevans5155 He gave the basic definition of a woman.
In today's society of gender dogma run amok, this video should be required viewing at the start of sex education classes in school.
This is probably one of the best videos from 2020.Thanks a lot!!!
Ignorance is bliss.
jkhbm
@@elijahjns81feel free to enlighten us and respond to him.
Brilliant, thank you for the further clarification of intersex conditions! I knew about the SRY gene but didn't know much about the role androgen receptors played in biological sex determination.
Alex think of SRY as the genetic instruction for gonad differentiation, and androgen receptors as the hormone instruction for reproductive development from such differentiation.
SRY -> bipotential gonads -> hormones
Androgen receptors do not determine sex. But when androgen receptors do not work, either completely or in part, you get CAIS or AIS, respectively. Which are not really "intersex" chromosomally speaking. But they do affect the way the body looks and functions.
Thank you for this video it's been very difficult for me to deal with the trans activists who keep inserting themselves. I have a condition called Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism classified as Intersex because of the lack of development. I was treated by a renowned set of Stamford physicians because my father was a physician so they gave me extra careful treatment. all the information they told me is unavailable or has been changed by well-meaning but confused activists. Covering up all the disadvantages of synthetic hormones that are not regulated by the body and treating them like there's some sort of magic medicine to make you whoever you want to be. It's very frustrating not I've seen another video that said that intersex and transgendered were the same. This is madness and it's gonna lead to a lot of harm if people don't put their heads on straight.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. Whenever those activists attack with that "it doesn't affect your life, you're just a bigot." argument I just think of people like you who suffer the most because of these new absurd ideas.
Just say you're transphobic
Transgender and intersex are not the same, idk why these people can’t get that.
Transgender means you identify as a different gender than what you were born.
Intersex means you were born with gender features differing from biological norm.
I have nothing against them, it just makes me mad when they assume we are talking about trans people.
@@helpme347I do get that transgender and intersex are two different conditions. I have been looking at UA-cam video videos regarding intersex and have learned a lot of information that I did not know before. This video actually also gave me additional information regarding why for example testes in the stomach of an intersex person may become cancerous and need to be removed. Intersex conditions are not taught in school and of course neither is transgender. Unfortunately in transgender certain religious groups have made it abnormal and therefore a condition to be discriminated against. In intersex they may possibly link both conditions together or deny intersex doesn’t exist because God doesn’t make mistakes. Both conditions exist, should be taught and we as humans need to learn and accept both.
As someone born with an intersex type condition I found your approach to this subject well founded. This is a question I’ve spent a life time of having to deal with. While my DNA is male the actual sexual development of my body was incomplete in some aspects.
Ironically I did marry but realize that physiologically I have the desire to live as a female. This has made my life very complex to say the least.
As a child I can remember surgery being done to correct sexual development issues and they almost made me over into a female completely but decided not to. I had no input into if I wanted this surgery or not.
There was a young child in the next bed who did have gender change surgery while I was in the hospital and it was extremely upsetting for me to comprehend as I was far to young to understand what was taking place. One women came into my ward and told me what they were going to do to this child and then went on to explain that they almost did the same to myself. She so upset me that I never spoke to anyone about what happened to me until I was an adult. My parents claimed to know little of what had taken place but I knew different. Nothing was ever said on the subject at home.
As an adult I did develop stage three testicular / ovarian type cancer as a result of this condition I had. In addition at least four huge mature germ cell teratoma were surgically removed from my body over my life time. With the last being 17.5cm and took on the appearance of a fetus. It had limbs, eyes, skin, hair, and many other fetus like bits. I remember waking up after this extensive surgery at the Mayo Clinic feeling as if I had lost a child though miscarriage. In all I had seven months of chemotherapy and surgeries.
This has caused my a life time of pain.
I’m sure it is the root cause of my gender dysphoria . Where does the phycological aspect of transgender stop and the biological aspects of my body development begin?
Again I joined you channel to explore this and the many other types of intersex developments other people have.
Stay strong
Fascinating experience. At the same time, I am so sorry for your difficulties. I firmly believe that the corrective measure your parents took was not optimal. Though, it may make adolescence difficult, those decisions should be put off until the person affected is mature enough to make those decisions for him or herself. And I wish more people would come forward with those stories and this type of self-determination would be possible and would become protocol.
@@agricolaregs. I was ten years old and it was clear that most doctors just started doing SRS surgery on young children. This was 1960 and a new generation of phycologists were developing new ideas of how children develop sexually. The lead doctor was John money and while a few of his ideas were sound the vast majority were totally incorrect.
Keep in mind I never was able to obtain those records from my youth so I really do not know the level of understanding the medical community had.
Even when I developed a huge lump on my so called testis I could not get my local doctors to act. It took me nine months of begging for them to act and then I demanded they take the testis out. They agreed but indicated they thought I was over reacting but reluctantly agreed to remove the testis. The catch was they would do the surgery if I was awake during the surgery. I agreed just take it out. The moment they cut open my abdomen a 10cm germ cell teratoma popped out. Guess what it was malignant. Another doctor drove up from the twin cities and reviewed my case. He said I had at least stage three cancer as he found and even bigger 17.5cm tumor. To be honest he said I really think you have only a few months to live. With that I start seven months of pure hell of chemo therapy and even more surgeries.
This story goes on and on . It is really horrid. When you would think things would get better another horrid thing happens. The bottom line is I survived even though other doctors at the same clinic and hospital kept making one mistake after another.
@Nugget Entertainment My intersex is related to the earliest weeks of embryo development when this developing child has not started to define the adult sex. In effect the embryo is an embryonic female and the gonads are more ovary than anything else. All children start life as female and then slowly change to male or female. Thus in my case one testis failed to develop at all as a testis. When it was removed as an adult it resembled a ovotestis with an attached 10 cm malignant germ cell. Shortly after this was surgically removed a MRI found another germ cell teratoma located very deep in my upper abdomen. This particular one was very well developed and had limb like structures, eyes, flesh, bone, and some organs like structures. I was an adult when this surgery and cancer treatments took place. The treatments needed to save my life were extensive and almost killed me.
Going back to when I was ten years old two other teratoma were found and surgeries removed them at the same time my so called undescended testis was surgerically brought down.
My other testis was thought to be normal but it too failed to fully mature to normal adult size but it did produce testosterone but in low levels. In turn it cause my puberty to be greatly delayed. As you would expect my gonads are smaller, I have no body hair but do have a wonderful full head of hair. Lol
In all I’ve had over twenty surgeries with about seven related to my birth condition.
One generic test was done as they suspected I may have a form of AIS Androgen insensitivity Syndrome but some how the testing was messed up and nothing was proving one way or another.
Ironically I did marry and have been married for over forty years. It would be a major understatement to say marriage is difficult. The phycological aspects of fighting my underdeveloped body and gender dysphoria is very hard. My spouse and I have learned to deal with it and we get along very well. I tend to be asexual but for some reason I fell in love with my spouse and we just may things work for us.
Years ago when the cancer was first found a surgeon suggested that he remove all the remaining male tissue and other testis then start my on a high dose of estrogen. This was to prevent the spread of the cancer. Even though I was agreeable and even like to idea of SRS gender change surgery I also realized this surgeon was incorrect in his assessment and that this cancer was based on ovarian cancer and not testicular cancer. Giving me estrogen hormones may cause the cancer to spread. When I told this to the doctors at the Mayo Clinic they agreed with me. Having said that they had seen very few people with cancer and teratoma this large who survived.
One theory suggested my mother was given DES during the earliest days of my gestation. It was suggested that DES acted as a EDC endocrine disruptor chemical that in turn effected caused improper sexual development of my body. There were many reasons for des to be given to expecting mothers. I never know just why she took it.
@Nugget Entertainment You also uses the term Morris syndrome which today is called AIS Androgen insensitivity Syndrome , a much better term.
Also keep in mine that it is true that gender is selected when the sperm and egg bond. That is true but also keep in mind that gender is a process that fully takes place over a five or six week process. This process is actively over seen by the germ cells. In fact these germ cells have the ability to travel along the midline of the embryo, along a pathway from the brain to the gonads. In effect they are doing the final sexing of the child. This is where things get merky. These germ cells are still sexing the embryo up to six weeks after first gestation starts and clearly things do happen in this process to cause sexual development issues. Full understanding of how the germ cells carry out their tasks are not fully understood. This is really apparent when studying germ cell interaction with brain development.
Modern studies have shown that developing countries appear to have many more cases than underdeveloped countries. One studies suggest exposure to EDC endocrine disruptor chemicals during gestation maybe one factor.
This can be an extremely complex issue and it is very important that people who study this do not try to lump all intersex people into one category. The causes of these condition vary greatly from one another.
These videos are incredibly valuable, when they really shouldn't be - it should be understood by everyone and taught in schools, but we live in an insane world where biological sex reality is ignored for political means.
What is worse, is that not only is this information not being shared, but something else entirely is replacing it.
where exactly is biological sex ignored in this world?
One caveat. Those with CAIS have testes, functional SRY, and Y chromosome. Wouldn't that make them Biologically male with feminization of secondary sexual characteristics due to their disorder?
I paused the video at this exact moment to see if anyone noticed this in the comments. I think they misspoke and uploaded the video without realizing.
Did you know that you can usually tell someone's birth sex in the pelvic arch & skull? Many folks for example AIS, will actually have a skeletal system of a female. To simply say they are feminized males is a bit of a misnomer, because usually on an X-ray of a pelvic arch it's not a underdeveloped male arch.
@@RKingis the thing is that skeletal structure is a secondary sexual characteristic. So really, the person's skeleton looks like a female's skeleton because the genetics to make the skeleton appear male don't work.
@@bhendri31 That's not actually how AIS works. While true the Androgen Receptors are damaged, depending on the severity of the damage, the receptors will try to absorb as much testosterone as it can, and whatever is left is converted into estrogen. This is why many who go untreated going through puberty look like young women transitioning to men.
@@bhendri31 That's actually not how AIS works. The testosterone is converted to estrogen.
Great video . Love your channel .
I am a med student and in 1st year we learn genetics and embryology as part of Anatomy and this is precisely what we are taught .
It was really confusing to see trans activists say sex is a social construct using intersex people even though we learnt it as a condition that occurs due to an error in embryology .
Keep up the good work .
P.S this just helped me refresh embryology of Urinogenital system so thank you.
Gender is a social construct, not sex.
@@shegeek72 not exactly, gender has both social and cultural aspects and a biological aspect. It is not a pure social construct even with the DSM 5 agrees . There have been studies on brain differences in men and women which might be due to the sex hormone like men are better at navigating , women are better at attention to detail and memory and much more . It's just that I have heard trans activists say that sex is also a social construct or sex is a spectrum which is so not true
@@sharathshinoy4495 Social and cultural aspects are constructs, though well established in various cultures and developed over hundreds of years. Scientists theorize that some aspects of gender behavior might be biological in nature, but aren't sure which ones are the result of biology and which are nurture. Though sex isn't a social construct (like gender) it is a spectrum from male intersexed female. The reason why males are better at navigating is due to brain anatomy. The male brain has more white matter allowing them to better visualize and rotate 3D objects. Whereas the female brain has more gray matter and a larger corpus collosum allowing the two hemispheres of the brain to communicate more efficiently giving them better communication skills, etc.
@@shegeek72 yeah but intersex is not a sex , it is a medical condition where the normal development of sex organs don't happen . Sex is defined by gamete which is the common thing among all organism that sexually reproduce using different gamete. Since there are two gamete one large and one small , there are only two sexes and hence two pathways for development of sexual organs which he has explained in the video . The chromosomal anomalies like Klinefelters or Turners syndrome are the result of an error in the genetic process although some scientists and clinicians don't consider them to be intersex . In other cases of intersex its usually the result of improper development of sexual organs which may lead to mismatch between internal and external genitalia or abnormal genitalia or the presence of both male and female sex organs but not properly formed . As for those with XY chromosomes but female sex organs it's usually due to the absence of Androgen receptors which are necessary for development of male sexual organs. I've seen scientists make the argument that sex is a spectrum but if u consider the definition of sex used by most scientists which is based on gamete then intersex can't be considered a sex category. In fact the concept of a spectrum doesn't even apply to sex categories , they are like binaries , you r either male or female , there are of course cases which are rare where it is difficult to determine sex category but that doesn't necessarily change the sex categories.
You are right about the motivation of doctors that mutilated intersex children in the past.
I think that it is important to distinguish people with milder DSDs from intersex people who have more severe DSDs and are more difficult to classify as one sex or the other. Today many activists push for all people with DSDs to identify themselves as intersex. You speak as if you have accepted their inflated definition of 'intersex' and we really shouldn't do that because their intent is to misinform people so that they could push their bad argument of sex as a spectrum.
You should consider that your good intentions, similarly to the doctors from the past, also might lead you down a wrong path.
I believe that the point is not to normalize disorders, i.e. call them 'differences'. Instead we should learn not to stigmatize people who have these disorders, learn that disorders and diseases do not make us less human. People who get insulted when the society tells them that they have a disorder obviously view having disorders as something insulting. This is not something we should encourage.
the negative implication is literally in the word "disorder". that's where the stigma comes from. maybe listen to actual intersex people?
@@teodorasavoiu4664 Intersex people are not the only ones who have disorders of some kind. Many of us do and we need to be accepting and tolerant of people with disorders, both mental and physical. 'Disorder' is not a swear word or a slur. It wasn't intended to be and it is not being used as such. It has a negative connotation, of course, but it is silly to blame the word when the thing it relates to is negative in itself. Intersex people have reproductive systems that are either non-functional or function with difficulty, i.e. the systems are not in order, so the word disorder applies well.
This is the problem when you identify with your disorder, thinking that intersex or autism is somehow the core of who you are as an individual. It is just a part of who you are, due to bad luck and it is not your 'essence' as a person. Accepting your disorder, sickness or tragedy as your personal burden and moving forward in life is what we should teach. Negative things are a part of life and being delusional, changing language thinking that it changes reality, is not a good way to live.
It's not a disorder, it's nature.
@@TheBrotherHoodSports Everything is natural, disease and death as well. Disorders may prevent your body from functioning in an optimal way, they limit your ability to participate in society etc.
The irony of being definitive in your words but having to qualify them with "almost." If you can't honest say always and not have edge cases to explain your one or the other argument, it falls apart.
@@makeshift2105 if I remember your argument the binary exists due to there being a sperm or egg in reproduction. Intersex individuals may not have either and are thus unable to reproduce. Your definition discounts these people who would be a third gender by simply defining terms so they don't exist, yet they do.
Define it however you want, there are people with male and female DNA. They fit on both charts. Your definition does not eliminate them.
Intersex is a well it means something went wrong in the development in the womb. But you’re still a man or a woman you’re not a third. Let me give me an example. Everybody every human has two hands. If you’re born without hands, it doesn’t change the fact that every human is born with two hands, and if you’re not something went wrong in the womb
Saying something went wrong is an opinion. Not every living thing has arms or needs arms. You're boiling it down to humanity because you don't see the bigger picture.
Perfect - and it's about time the binary reality of intersex is articulated with such detail and clarity. Thank you for publishing this!
This channel is shadow banned from youtube. They definitely wouldnt Recommend these videos to anyone.
Thankfully some of us don't need recomendations to find the truth
@Toon Disney real
What do you mean by “shadow banned”? I have been able to see his videos.
@@Renagerda My name Is glenn quagmire and i say giggity
Hello, I think you do a really good job with the videos and thanks for putting resources into the description box! I checked your website and read the article from Lehtonen and Parker (2014) about the concept of defining sex by the gametes someone produces. I was wondering if someone gets gender reassignment surgery and doesnt produce gametes anymore, is the person still his/her biological sex because of cromosomal sex? Or has it something to do with the SRY Gene?
The questions that you listed at the end are already answered earlier in your video but I am glad that you addressed this topic because someone on Facebook got into a fight with me saying that "there are only 2 sexes" is wrong. I pointed out to him that a male with female anatomy is still a male and vice versa but he still kept refuting it. I can use this video to back up my points.
Now this video is the best thing/way to describe what an intersex person is.
Thankyou for clearing that up.. my lecturer in physiology put up a slide saying sex is on a spectrum and that a ‘substantial percentage’ of people are in between. I asked what thst percentage is, and she said it depends how it is defined so i dont like to put a figure on it! This is tertiary science class!
She suggested its 1.7 perecent. Can you confirm for me what thd percentage of intersex live births world wide are? And can some reproduce naturally or does nature render them i fertile?
Thankyou for your sensibility
I love that study of almost 2% it included people with a micropenis… so hamfisted
Micropenis is a dsd condition which can be considered intersex. @@shanemac1646
I am incredibly impressed with Zachary and your team. Zachary is just brilliant. Such a well-spoken, reasoned communicator. His compassion comes through in everything he says. Keep up the excellent work!
7:12 - you make a mistake here. You say "thus they are females", which is incorrect, whilst stating in the text box correctly that they can have female morphology.
AIS is when XY is present (thus genetically male) but are resistant to testosterone, so biologically male, phenotypically female.
That is why his end statement that biological sex is gene driven is false.
In fact, all the examples/conditions he listed are interactions between genes/genetics and hormones/chemistry.
I think you're misunderstanding what sex determinism is. It's fundamental - so in the case of AIS, where someone can look completely female, they are still biologically male. Because sex is a binary; AIS is an example of an edge case in a dimorphic system, but it doesn't negate the existence of the binary itself. Or in layman's terms, the ability for testosterone to create sex features (androgen receptors etc.) has no impact whatsoever on whether someone is biologically, fundamentally male or female - it's 'after the fact'.
@tubey84
Logic is logic, sir.
His final statement was the sex as a binary is gene driven.
Yet every intersex example he gave each intersex condition was a combo of SRY/genetics and active or inactive androgen receptors/hormones/chemistry.
Nothing either of you says changes that admission.
Thereby calling it gene driven exclusively is a false premise and lie to claim that.
In each condition, he mentions the reason for it being biologically male or female had to do with the overall morphology/phenotype.
The logistically irony is that it makes this not exclusively based on genetics, contrary to his end of video claim.
Nothing changes that.
Anything beyond that is denial of the facts presented.
He even says earlier in time index 3:42 that biological sex is a combination of gonads and reproductive structures that is ALMOST always determined by a combination of SRY/genetics AND Androgen receptors/hormones/chemistry.
Thereby, what he actually admits is that biological sex is morphological/phenotypical.
You can still argue sex is a binary technically, but you can't argue that biological sex is exclusively genetic.
He proves that point when talking at intersex females with CAIS or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. They are genetically male but phenotypicallly female.
Nothing changes that.
And you yourself admit they are phenotypically female.
You also admit it is due to resistance to the testosterone created by the SRY gene, which in turn is due to lack of functioning androgen receptors.
Lastly, if we define it as a genetic binary then sexual anatomy or characteristics do not have a place in the discussion as they are logistically irrelevant.
Yet doctors have historically identified biological sex by morphology/sexual anatomy/sexual characteristics BEFORE genetic/chromosomal testing ever existed.
Either all those doctors throughout history are lying or you are.
Which is it?
A binary is an either/or system. Both things can't be true or its not binary.
@@DavidBarrett-gz3ih Again you don't seem to know what 'determinism' is. It's literally called the XY sex-determination system. It is gene determined. As in nothing that follows can happen without that determination occurring. Every bit of confusion - including yours - is not understanding how it works and conflating various developmental sex disorders as somehow evidence of a sex spectrum. You refer to doctors throughout history using phenotyping/dimorphic difference to 'assign' sex; that is outmoded, because we can now definitively show determined biological sex at a fundamental level. 'Throughout history' they couldn't do that. We still assign at birth rather than do a fundamental determination of biological sex simply because 99.99% of the time there's no practical reason to genetically test anyone for their actual biological sex.
No male or female is more or less of a male or female than another. There's no spectrum of sex. It is a binary in humans - male, female. That is objective scientific fact.
@@tubey84 Your sex is not what your chromosomes are. Your sex is which developmental path you go down in the womb, regardless of other factors.
Interesting and informative video. I have a question about intersex with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome though. You seem to be suggesting that sex should ultimately be determined by gonads, which as I understand it will be testes in women with CAIS. You seem to suggest they are female because they will develop an externally female body due to the androgen insensitivity, but this then seems to contradict your argument that sex should not be determined by physical appearance.
there it is, it "should" even though its not really the most correct interpretation, you are going to develop some way depending on your gonads condition, leaving you like a male or a female, but intersex conditions mangle this process, so its just a proxy to say, "they develop female but are technically male but lets just treat them as female."
In this case testicles have not descended and don't react to testosterone hence they don't produce sperm. They don't have uterus too, but have female genitalia aka vagina, labia. They develop breasts, but not body hair, no acne and of course no menstruation. So in this case we don't have gonads (sperm) but we also don't have ovaries no uterus. Even tho they have XY chromosomes, as I said, the Y one doesn't affect the hormone production whatsoever. So in this case it's more about the genitals and secondary sexual traits (here breasts) and of course how the person identities - how they feel. And also maybe they are studies, buy I've not looked at any, about the differences in their brains compared to females and males :)
@@msliper so are they male or female
i mean they have both sry gene and a.r. so i dont see why sex cant be based off of those since if either are absent then the person is female, and if they are both present (like in those with CAIS) then they are male
@@whatsomeonesaidwastaken9216 the sry gene doesn't funtion the way it should or at all. I believe the sry gene is integral to make the body produce as male so it delevops as female with more of the female reproductive system and appearance. That's at least my basic understanding.
6:55 would this not still be a male according to your own opinion on SRY being the determining factor?
Yes. They are genetic males but can’t use testosterone due to the mentioned nonfunctional androgen receptors. But they tend to prefer to continue living as females
If they develop entirely as female, with female anatomy and female phenotype then they are female. Despite having XY karyotype.
That's what I was thinking. They'd be males if sex was determined by functional chromosomes rather than gonad development. I still think people with CAIS are males with a female phenotype, I don't think they develop wombs or vaginas either so they can't even reproduce as females, which is the whole point of gametes anyway.
According to the NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders), AIS affects males, not females.
They have a sry of xy, they are male even though they have physical female traits as a result of foulty Androgen Receptors.
They also usually dont have a uterus, no fallopian tubes, or ovaries. They can't produce female gametes.
The argument of this is whether or not there’s definitive two genders and that’s what there are, or whether not gender is on a spectrum here he explains that there are two endpoints, and that those are definitive endpoints. However, however we also know the definitively people don’t always make it to those endpoints. He himself says almost well guess what almost doesn’t win the race which means that we don’t always make it to those two endpoint, which means that if you’re looking at it from one end, to another end, it draws a line, and there are people who end at all different points of that line, that’s what a spectrum is. Almost doesn’t win the race. You can’t scientifically say those are the two endpoints, and it almost always makes it to that point. That’s not how science works my friend and this conversation didn’t have any scientific backing. It just made a lot of personal feelings that sounded like science. And then left out important data. Dude you can’t leave out the data almost really is that your science almost
Well said. A binary by definition is an either/or system.
If exceptions exist it is not binary in the first place.
Great vid! Because of the recent unnecessary debate over whether gender is binary, I've begun to study intersex to understand the arguments made by those who believe that gender is a spectrum and not binary. In my opinion, the only intersex conditions that cause some confusion are AIS and CAIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). People with this condition have a Y chromosome and develop testes as a result. But because of the androgen insensitivity, the body develops in a largely female manner. The testes never mature properly and never descend. So, are those with CAIS/AIS male or female? One could argue they are underdeveloped males. Because the external body is identical to that a female, I'm inclined to think they are unfertile females. Thoughts on this?
AIS and CAIS are both males, with difference being that CAIS males look like ordinary women and AIS males look like typical males depending on how much they are masculinized. Some lesbians with short hair look and sound like typical males, but because they lack a Y-chromosome and have internal female parts they are considered female. Brittney Griner is a good case for this argument.
@@Black-Panther94Actually, many folks assigned as males at birth & those born male with AIS go through a wonky female puberty, and grow up looking like women on testosterone replacement therapy. But if you were to X-ray their pelvic area, it would show that they were born female.
In high school biology a long time ago (mid 90s) I distinctly remember a case study we learned about where the individual had one testis and one ovary. Now is my memory not serving me or did I misunderstand something at the time? Or was the information at the time misleading? Or is this condition possible? You mentioned some rare complicated examples reserved for another video.
I don't know that this specific scenario can or can't happen.
But most disorders that result in the development of both male and female sex organs are types of Chimerism or Mosaism. The person in this case would have two distinct sets of DNA in their respective organs.
@@Kylephibbsky thanks for the reply. That sounds interesting. It’s a fascinating topic. It’s just so unfortunate that those people are used as pawns in this culture war now.
This case is from long ago and it was not good documented at all
As a teacher of Biology this is SO well explained - brilliant work!
The subject of embryonic sexual development is much more complicated than is being presented here, such as the case of male born with XX or XXX chromosomes.
intersexuality" to refer to a variety of physical sex ambiguities.[14] However, according to The SAGE Encyclopedia of LGBTQ Studies, it was not until Anne Fausto Sterling published her article "The Five Sexes: Why Male and Female Are Not Enough" in 1993 that the term reached popularity.[41]
According to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights:
Intersex people are born with sex characteristics (including genitals, gonads and chromosome patterns) that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies. Intersex is an umbrella term used to describe a wide range of natural bodily variations.[2]
Intersexuality did not start as a political label Paradox.
Also, your video contradicts itself.
You claim sex is gene-defined yet when you go over one category of intersex females you admit the SRY gene was present.
Every example you gave involved a mixture of genes and Androgen Receptors.
Androgen is a hormone. Thereby, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION biological sex is defined by a combination of genes and hormones interacting.
Thereby, it is not gene defined. So you have lied in your own video.
You also define biological sex as gonadal.
1.7%
This estimate is based on work by Anne Fausto-Sterling and others, including her book co-authors. However, Leonard Sax's response to this work states that this figure includes conditions that most clinicians don't recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome and late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia.
4%
This estimate is based on work by Current Urology, which states that true hermaphrodites account for 4% to 10% of cases of a rare disorder called disorder of sexual development (DSD).
The 1.7 % estimate means 1 to 2 out of every 100 people are intersexed by nature.
If 4 to 10% of those are True hermaphrodites then 1 in every 1000 people to every 4 in 10,000 people possess both gonads.
So, how do you define their biological sex?
Until you have an explanation for that your video is incomplete at best and intentionally misguided at worst.
Since you don't cover the biologically true hermaphrodites it is more logical to assume intentionally misguiding but will reserve judgement until you cover this.
Good video except that you clarified that variation of physical characteristics isnt what biological sex is but factored androgen reception for determining male or female. Androgen doesnt effect gamete production, only a persons phenotype: their physical characteristics. It should only be the SRY gene to determing the gender of intersex people.
Wouldn't biological sex be more accurately defined by chromosome groupings like XX and XY? (and whichever other ones there are for intersex people too)
Since chromosomes are simply the genetic instruction for biological processes, they do not define sex, but help provide instructions for its development in the womb. Sometimes, the instructions are translocated, like when the SRY gene translocates to an X chromosome, causing male development in an XX fetus. Thus, male and female are not defined through chromosomes, but through the phenotypes they develop in the womb, which are modulated by presence or absence of SRY activation + the functional androgen receptors.
@@ParadoxInstitute thank you!
@@ParadoxInstitute I'd say through my research. That spermagonia and oogonia which are in every cell in the body.
Can you please make a video on that.
@@ParadoxInstitute question is a person that has xxy chromosomes male or female. Im assuming male because of the y. Another question just to make sure somebody that is xy is male and can’t be female and xx is female and can’t be male. One more question I heard someone say that somebody with xx chromosomes can have there SRY activate and make them male with xx chromosomes is that true
@@ParadoxInstitute Thus producing an intersexed baby! People with DSD are not strictly male or female, but with hormonal, chromosomal and internal and external sex organ deviations. They are a third sex!
I'm just now getting into your videos. From a young age I've been interested in disorders of sex. How can I further my studies? In a biological way; I'm not interested in the politics.
If you have a book do let me know
Females/ Intersex Females
SRY Gene:
Androgen Receptors:
(One or the other)
Males and Intersex Males
SRY Gene: Functional
Androgen Receptors: Functional
Swyer syndrome is a condition that affects sex development. Sex development usually follows a particular path based on an individual's chromosomes; however, in Swyer syndrome, sex development is not typical for the affected individual's chromosomal pattern.
Chromosomes contain the genetic instructions for how the body develops and functions. People usually have 46 chromosomes in each cell. Two of the 46 chromosomes, known as X and Y, are called sex chromosomes because they help determine whether a person will develop male or female reproductive structures. Girls and women typically have two X chromosomes (46,XX karyotype), while boys and men typically have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome (46,XY karyotype). In Swyer syndrome, individuals have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome in each cell, which is the pattern typically found in boys and men; however, they have female reproductive structures.
People with Swyer syndrome have female external genitalia and some female internal reproductive structures. These individuals usually have a uterus and fallopian tubes, but their gonads (ovaries or testes) are not functional. Instead, the gonads are small and underdeveloped and contain little gonadal tissue. These structures are called streak gonads. The streak gonadal tissue is at risk of developing cancer that is often hard-to-detect, so it is usually removed surgically. Swyer syndrome is also called 46,XY complete gonadal dysgenesis; the medical term “dysgenesis” means "abnormal development."
Because they appear female on the outside, babies with Swyer syndrome are usually raised as girls and develop a female gender identity, which is a person's sense of their gender (girl, boy, a combination, or neither). Swyer syndrome may be identified before birth, at birth, or later when a child does not go through puberty as usual. Because they do not have functional ovaries that produce hormones, affected individuals often begin hormone replacement therapy during early adolescence to start puberty, causing the breasts and uterus to grow, and eventually leading to menstruation. Hormone replacement therapy is also important for bone health and helps reduce the risk of low bone density (osteopenia) and fragile bones (osteoporosis). Women with Swyer syndrome do not produce eggs (ova), but if they have a uterus, they may be able to become pregnant with a donated egg or embryo.
A condition with no functional gonads whatsoever?
Am I understanding that right?
What about us "True Hermaphrodites" having both ovary and testicles? where do we fit on your binary choice and after 63 years, what bathroom should we use?
He can't answer you because he can't separate politics from science. He is binary thinker. Thus exceptions can't be processed. He views intersex as a political label by admission in his comments in other videos.
You are Adam, the original human beings that populated the earth through asexual reproduction. They keep your gender hidden for money making practices like women's sports for example. All hail the asexual being.
There is no such thing as a human hermaphrodite. You can have both ovarian and teste tissue yet only one type actually works. That is your sex
The people here are making irrational argumentation lol. Your sex would be determined by whether you produce viable sperm or eggs. They are no true hermaphrodites documented in any reliable form of scientific evidence as there has never been an observed case in which someone produced bothe fertile eggs and sperm at the same time.
A true hermaphrodite can act as both male and female in the reproductive process. So they produce both male and female gametes. Which I can guarantee that you do not. Both of your gonads are likely dysfunctional, but if only one set is functional that is the sex you are. If none are functional, then other markers have to be looked at, like what other anatomical structures you have developed.
Shame the algorithm isnt in your favor. Great video!
Here in our island theirs a man here with male genitals he has no female genitals visible, but he suffer moods swings cramps, headache & menstrual symptoms ,,, turns out he has a uterus inside his body even thought he is male...
Great video. Usuful and clear. Children need to watch this. Just to have an other point of view from that idea that your sex is create by your feelings...
i've never seen anyone say that sex is created by feelings? unless you're confusing sex with gender, which this video specifically said are two unlinked things.
@@YouLikeKrabbyPattiesDontYou you mean the whole gender ideology with no scientific base?
@@YouLikeKrabbyPattiesDontYou bro the gender cult people say this shit all the time
This video puts an end to the silliness of so-called "non-binary" individuals!
Amen!
Non binary is completely different from innersex,innersex is a sex while non binary is a gender
Very interesting and eligthening video. Is there a documented case of people with both testes and ovaries that are functional?
That would be a complete Hermaphrodite and as far as humans know, one has not been discovered.
I doubt Paradox would tell us if he knew. His premise is biological sex is ultimately a gonadal binary.
If an example of people with both gonads were presented it would no longer be a binary model as binaries are an either/or system and this debunk his videos claim.
Is he honest enough to admit such a possibility?
Blind people exist. Is sight wrong?
why isn’t “neither gamete gets produced” a valid third option?
i understand why constructing a binary is *possible* but it hasn’t been demonstrated that constructing more than 2 categories is *impossible*
This is because the production of gametes isn't the root of the definition, the root of the definition is the developmental pathway toward one of the two *types* of gamete that an organism *could* produce.
Intersex people have these developmental pathways just like everyone else, they're not capable of producing a third type of gamete, nor of (as the name falsely suggests) producing both types of gamete.
5:20 I raise you a question: what about people who are born without testes or ovaries? This happens in roughly 7 or 8% of people with vaginal agenesis, where the person may look female, but have no vagina, cervix, uterus, uterine tubes and/or ovaries
There is gender that a doctor gives at birth when the doctor sees your genitals it is a gender label female or male. Then, there is a person's gender identity, which refers to how you feel on the inside regardless of the label you were assigned on your birth certificate. Gender is a social construct based on the beliefs of others. Even if it doesn't fit you as an individual. It's not all about genitals only or hormones and so on... Each individual knows themselves and their body and mind better than any doctor or other people. As for characteristics in an individual that can very in a feminine way or a masculine way.
Their are ladies with facial hair like a man, but every part of them is female, even their genitals. This is rare. It's not PCOS always.
Before this video I would have use my “understanding” of intersex as my argument against binary gender associations. I would say biological sex and gender identity were not synonymous. Also stating that sex is binary with the expectations of intersex. And now I am enlightened in new ways and can improve my conversations with my now expanded vocabulary and understanding. Thank you for this. *watches the rest of the gender vids from this channel*
Well functionally no ...they don't function in either fully male or fully female way they function in a mixed way(and yes so does everyone but they more than those affected by typical forms of masculinization or feminisation) ....the whole idea of identity being ,politics and fashion is riddiculous ...in medieval times the word was the nature of a person which better indicates ,quite horrifying that medieval people with less people and less cases could see difference in function and comfort while modern people wanna argue that it is just fashion and a lable.A fork is not a spoon and a spoon is not a spork.
Medieval people had strong gender stereotypes, the basis for your gender ideology. We try to separate science and beliefs, and clean up the mess gender cult has created by trying to confuse their beliefs in gender with biological sex. Just because someone was born without arms due to undesirable genetic mutation doesn't create new species. Same goes for sex. Medical conditions in person's development do not create neither new sex nor new species. You are free to believe in "innate gender" but do not aggressively try to change the reality for everyone, that is what extreme religious fanatics do. To me gender is just a set of stereotypes a person has been brainwashed with. So instead of "transitioning" people need psychological help to get rid of them.
There should be far more of these fact-based education videos to counteract the deluge of misinformation about this topic that is unfortunately imbibed by those incapable of differentiating fact from nonsensical fiction.
Excellent video! My students loved this in class. Very informative.
If it were up to me you would have (insert current world population #) subscribers. If everyone were just a little more informed we could have more discussions and less arguments. Thank you for educating in such a well spoken manner. Liked shared subbed all that man, great vids!
Inter sexism is an abnormality in a minority of people. They can work with a doctor about how they want to deal with this issue.
Great video! But, a long time ago I looked up for Klinfelter syndrome and also after having watched this video, but it says that it is not an Intersex variety. Now I'm confused?
@theparadoxinstitute What's the title of Zacahry's book/article, that he mentioned towards the end of this video?
The Gender Paradox: Discrimination and Disparities in the Postmodern Era. You can find it on Amazon or Lulu.
He’ll also be publishing a book on the sex spectrum called “Binary: Debunking the Sex Spectrum Myth” to be released in late summer / early fall of this year.
What about intersex with ovatestis , or testicles with ovarian tissue mixed
you said that biological sex is determined by the formation of sex characteristics like gonad formation and hormone reception, stating that biological sex is ultimately determined by the type of gametes one produces: the structure of the gonads, and reproductive anatomy. however, you classify people with complete androgen insensitiviry syndrome as “clearly female” while ignoring the fact that they have testicular development, contradicting your previous statement. and what about other degrees of androgen insensitivity like pais and mais? there are cases in which androgen receptors are only partially non-responsive, and structures appear to be a middle point. and have you considered mosaics and chimeras? they actually have two different sets of dna in their bodies. many of the arguments posted here don’t stand up to scrutiny, and you have misrepresented the interests of intersex people. i don’t deny that there are only two sexes, but to not acknowledge the fact that intersex people are in an in-between point (even if their anatomy may shift towards one side or another) for the two sexes doesn’t make sense.
damn and I thought I had a conclusion , thanks tho , I will research more!!!
@Antoine Wilson the “internal structures” one. androgen insensitive people have testicles, and they qualified them as “clearly female” despite said argument, hence a contradiction.
@Antoine Wilson “Individuals affected by CAIS develop a normal external female habitus, despite the presence of a Y chromosome,[1][5][6][7][8][9] but internally, they will lack a uterus, and the vaginal cavity will be shallow, *while the gonads, having been turned into testicles rather than ovaries* in the earlier separate process also triggered by their Y chromosome, will remain undescended in the place where the ovaries would have been” - literally wikipedia lmao
@Antoine Wilson the pathway their gonads went down to was clearly leaning more towards sperm production one since they have testicles and do produce testosterone, the body is just immune to it. please do more research, and spell-check your comment.
@Antoine Wilson wdym flinching lol. yes, the internal anatomy’s path was started towards the male side, and that was their argument in the video, but then contradicted themselves. that’s the problem.
You may be right about sex is possibly binary,
however, sex is most likely a spectrum rather than just plain binary. Sex is more of a spectrum.
I can tell you are not an evolutionist but rather a Christian "scientist" who follows Religious Science which is actually, "Pseudoscience". And it is not even official about your statement about sexes
There is has been a phenomena where in you won't have a reproductive organ called Vaginal agenesis.
Sorry to say but the reason we have ambigious intersex beings it is because some need to not reproduce for new mutation to spread and evolve human beings.
Yes, ambigious exist, they even SRYs that functions early and then became dormant when they reach adulthood
this is the best video on the topic i've ever seen, thanks so much!! i do have an important question/critique:
at 2:02 you say "a WOMAN without breasts..." but don't you mean to say "a FEMALE without breasts..."?. Isn't what you said conflating sex and gender?
MALE/FEMALE = biological sex
MAN/WOMAN = personal/gender identity.
and i think you do this conflation again at 8:22 with "boy" and "girl".
i'm super confused about all this i must say, and don't have strong opinion of what's right/wrong.
i can dig that, thanks for your detailed response
4:45 around the eighth week of gestation, the sex is determined. At the end of the 10th week of pregnancy, your baby is no longer an embryo. It is now a fetus, the stage of development up until birth.
Both men and women have breasts therefore there’s no separation of category women the breast get larger normally, but that does change from men as well, and both of them can produce milk. Therefore, I would remove breasts from this entire thing, because it doesn’t separate the sexes at all not even the little littlest just cause women get slightly bigger boobs. It really doesn’t have anything to do with boobs, because they both male and female produce milk
I wish that you talk about some issues:
How would you classify into the binary male/female the phenotypes described in the:
Prader scale
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prader_scale?wprov=sfla1
Quigley scale
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quigley_scale?wprov=sfla1
Intersex persons can have both testes and ovaries cans have xy and xx chromosomes…
What happens if the person is born with testicals and ovaries
Well, as he states there is no 3rd option. You either produce sperm or egg.
So you can say one of 2 things.
Either it's based on functional gonads or it's based on the gonads present.
If you go the functional gonad route then sterile people have no sex and are non-binary.
If you go the gonads present route then someone with both ovaries and testes would be also non-binary using this definition.
In either scenario the sexual binary is debunked.
That's why conditions like ovatestis likely are not covered
THANK YOU!!!!
Thank you, Paradox Institute! 😀
Gahd... this man is so sexy handsome. I got lost in his eyes I had to rewatch portions of the video. 😍😍😍
OK, so then arguing the intersex male versus intersex female is based off of a society that only counts two genders the point is if you live in a society that only thinks that there’s two colors in the world every color that we relate we will relate to those two colors so we will always push them in a direction or another direction but I don’t agree that that means there’s only two colors again. Throughout history, boys and girls are literally just picked by the fact that they have a vagina or penis that’s it you’re born you got a vagina girl you’re born you got a penis boy that’s how society chooses male or female they say you’re supposed to have XY chromosomes for boys X chromosomes for girls. There’s the only two set rules that I’ve ever existed. Anytime you diverge from those rules you got something different. The truth of it is that lots of people have something different the argument of this entire Post is is sex a spectrum. You are describing some thing that is not male or female. That is not the endpoint. You just said not the endpoint if there’s a line and one in this girl and there’s a line and one end his boy, and then there’s something else that’s not all the way to one of those ends guess what that makes a spectrum we have discussed the fact whether or not sex is a spectrum now you can say that that line leads more male or leads, more female, but the fact that you’re saying more male or more female or it doesn’t quite make it to Mail or doesn’t quite make it to female or is a divergence of those things makes it a spectrum that’s what a spectrum is morally the argument of what is wrong because you would tell somebody that they are not the typical. That’s a personal argument that’s it based on an error. If we live in a future that intersex is normal, then I won’t be a moral horrible thing to say to somebody. It won’t be evil to tell somebody who has a penis and ovaries that they are a boy because they have a penis or a girl because they have ovaries the point is that they’ll get to exist as who they are and they won’t be any problem with who they are because everybody will accept that they Exist, should we eggs accept that intersex people exist and that they are not a boy or or a girl they are their own thing. That is why sometimes when they’re born with a penis, but they have ovaries they feel like a girl and then dress like a girl but their body looks like a boy and they’ve got a penis and guess what that’s society that’s society is gonna turn around and tell him that moral society that he’s talking about I was gonna tell him that he’s a boy wearing a dress he ain’t a boy wearing a dress man he’s got a penis, but he’s got ovaries. He ain’t a boy wearing a dress just cause he’s got penis. So you’re sitting here going it’s a more argument and it’s evil to say that to somebody but you know what it’s just as evil to tell that boy with it with a penis who’s got ovaries and is wearing a dress that he’s not that he’s not what he is that he’s not a girl that he’s not whatever he is whatever the hell he wants to be. He’s got both that’s the whole point of intersex because he’s got both. Which means that societies moral argument that you’re making right here is being wrong is just as wrong when you set a standard for somebody who is not typical. And letting them know that saves them tons of emotional stress and societal stress and if we change the attitude of what this is and the acceptance of it, then they won’t actually have to suffer our moral argument of what we think is right or wrong they can have their own
Finally, a video that makes sense!! :)
There is also an a chromosomal variable called O with XO being recognized.
Thank you for the clear info!
Some intersex do not produce either tho, and have hybrid gonads.
that's gonadal dysgenesis, it's classified as a congenital developmental disorder in the reproduction system in either male or female
You can be a male that has a condition that makes you not able to produce sperms.
Or a female that is not able to produce eggs.
Don't forget about reproductive anatomy, androgen receptors SRY (gonads) + AR = male - Weak AR or no AR = female
Sounds like there should have been a 3rd Human in the Garden Of Eden.
Just before the 8 minute mark you changed your definition of male and female. You used a combination of factors rather than just the 1 factor you set out before.
@@makeshift2105 Are you Paradox Institute's sleeper account?
“Intersex is an umbrella term that represents 40+ medical conditions”. There you go! Use of words like “Medical Conditions” is debatable here, right? Medicalization isn’t necessary here. How about “40+ variations in sex characteristics than a typical male or female”. That sounds not medicalized, right?
How about females with an XXY chromosomes?
“How about females with an XXY chromosomes”
Reread that slowly
I’ve always told people. What Forrest Pattinson says is meaningless, we only work one of two ways.
I’m transfem 🏳️⚧️ you’ve gained a new subscriber
Male
Hombre
I've once read and also heard that intersexuality in humans could be as large as the population of red-haired people that exist. But, in the demographic field, it is still a minority just as redheads are also a minority but of course there aren't academic debates on whether being red-haired constitues a sex or gender.
About intersexuality more specifically, I'm still half left with the question if you can demonstrate objectively that non-operated infertile intersex people do not exist? In other words, I'm trying to ask if there is or not data, research that suggests... or a way to know if an intersexual individual who might have not had their sex assigned subjectically by a doctor, but still couldn't produce functional either female or male gametes?
If intersex has nothing to do with gender identity, why do many intersex people choose to live as a sex other than what was assigned them?
Forgive me if this sounds ignorant or offensive, but wouldn't people with CAIS be male as they have testes (or something closer to testes than to ovaries)? Does phenotypic sex have precedence over what reproductive system they have?
Yes, genetics determine what organ you have
In this case testicles have not descended and don't react to testosterone hence they don't produce sperm. They don't have uterus too, but have female genitalia aka vagina, labia. They develop breasts, but not body hair, no acne and of course no menstruation. So in this case we don't have gonads (sperm) but we also don't have ovaries no uterus. Even tho they have XY chromosomes, as I said, the Y one doesn't affect the hormone production whatsoever. So in this case it's more about the genitals and secondary sexual traits (here breasts) and of course how the person identities - how they feel. And also maybe they are studies, buy I've not looked at any, about the differences in their brains compared to females and males :)
@@msliper look, without testosterone (no/inert y chromosome with sry gene expression or androgen insensitivity) every fetus will look feminine.
You're partially correct about how we classify males and females. In medicine, it's mainly how the infant looks and what what hormones are expressed. Once puberty hits, that's when we can really assess their sex via genetics.
In genetics, we mainly focus on the y gene. It's a common misconception (mainly by the misinformation from activists) that the Y gene Is no longer the main determinant of sex.
For some reason my autocorrect couldn’t detect the word ‘testis’. Am I using the right terminology?
Testes or testicle.
@@rebeccacoleman3341 so both are technical terms?
@@JamesVytas plural and singular proper terms. See also: scrotum.
Thank you for this video. It is educational and important. I sure learned a lot!
third sex is rather just an option for wait and see rather than do surgery now ask questions later...
intersex is in-between its not an ideology
why are we in between because at some point we are exposed to both sex hormones and in some cases society,peers, children caused us to have to kind of travel back and forth between genders to be able to function
some was also raised in the wrong gender but at such a late stage discovery the things learned in the wrong raised gender carries over into the authentic transitioned gender
oftentimes in adolescence intersex people will hide or practice their gender in secret away from parents but returns to their assigned gender aka cross dressing in secret often after a parent passes away the intersex person will transition full time... remember intersex is not trans while similar and people will take intersex dialogue and use it for their excuse to transition trying to explain intersex is like trying to explain why a person likes a certain color over the others
while yes we have often either xy or xx
what science cant explain is why a person who looks female and has female genitals does not know they are xy without being tested but still identifies with female gender
and with cais,cah both hormone disorders yet you still find patients
who have a expected gender and chromosomes different or opposite of expectational gender/sex outcomes
not all ais people identify as female
not all cah identify as male
ultimately gender development depends on when exposure to key hormones took place in development
as an intersex person whom knows many intersex people to narrow people down to hormones, chromosomes or any other feature or even call it rare or a condition is belittling because of the complexity involved its difficult to define
its also belittling because when an intersex person finds out one has to continue to ask theirself who they are in the eyes of drs,god, society,friends
some will never see or understand what stands before them because they have only experienced one gender and thats all the gender they will ever understand
if your a Christian understand this that god made intersex for a purpose most of our lives was spent watching you learning what both genders do while it might sound confusing and it is at first we adapt to fit in where we need to it makes us the perfect person to be able to go in-between the genders to counsel them...if only people knew the role we have played in their lives helped them to understand the opposite sex helped them understand different things that is why many intersex work around people thats just what we do
"the sex of these individuals can still be determined by genetical, hormonal or morphological markers."
Wait, I thought you said those weren't the definition of biological sex?
Well, no conflict here: it's not definition but you can figure out the sex by these markers, so you will know what kind if gametes are produced under which condition because these cases are well studied. So it means you do not need to wait until body puberty to detect sex of people with these intersex conditions.
@@conceptualhandle Not... really? Because of the possibility of having tissue of other gonads mixed with the most "visible" one. Same thing with hormones, you could have a change in hormonal production and reception, which could also lead to inconclusive results
There is a difference between what defines and what determines sex.
@@kingstyle1471 I fail to see how. So if sex is defined by chromosomes gonads gametes and hormones but you only look at gametes to determine it, then what did you determine? It's a "male"? But then what if the body forms itself in every other aspect to be female? Better question is why would you, for humans at least, restrict the determination of sex to gametes?
@@MrWallow7 Chromosomes, gonads are used to determine sex. Like signboards to a destination. But signboards do not become the definition. The ultimate definition is gametes. That is the whole point of sex. It pertains to an organism's reproductive function. Gametes define sex.
Or in simple words: Of course biological sex is not a spectrum is it's defined to be binary, at least according to the definitions you use... though, if that definition makes sense is a different question.
Or am I wrong?, according to your definitions used, would it be theoretically conceptually possible for someone to not be male or female but something in between/ somewhere complitelly different?
No, because regardless of phenotyping and solely through XY sex-determination, biological sex is binary - in short, if you are XY, XXY, XXXY, you are male. You could be XXXXXXXXXXXY and, apart from being almost certainly very dead, you'd be male because of the presence of that Y. If you are X, XX, XXX, XXXX etc. etc. you are female.
Biological sex is not bimodal, where there'd be a 'gradient' of sex - it is strictly binary. It is not about 'definitions', because in relation to core biological sex in humans there is only one system that determines it; it's not possible to open that up to interpretation. It is binary and immutable.
Secondary sex determination, produced via hormones from the gonads, happens post-primary determination and is, therefore, not binary, but secondary sex determination does not supercede or negate the primary.
@@tubey84 Thanks for your answer and explonation :)
So, if I understand correctly, primary sex determination can be solely made out by chromosomes? And the only important aspect for male is to have a y and for female to have no y?
But couldn't be done an analogy here with the numberline? Like there are only 2 posibilities: positive or negative and the primary number determinator would be which sign was in front of the number (+/-). So numbers are binary, but numbers are also on a spectrum, not from more positive/ negative, but from smaller to bigger.
And also with chromosomes could be said, people are on a spectrum, not from more or less male/ female, but from the amount of chromosomes or whatever part on the sexdetermination aspect you want to use. It's always possible to find a spectrum or a binary definition of something, but sometimes binary definitions make more sense and sometimes the spectrum ones make more sense.
And I don't understand that part about definitions are not important, isn't that like the only important aspect of it? Like if per definition, the primary sex determination would be to look at the constellation of chromosomes, then there could in theory exist infinite sexes, the typical XY, XX, but also all the other ones you mentioned (plus yy possibilities).
I'm not saying this definition is better, than the one we have, the one we have established itself for a reason... But it still has flaws, right? Intersex people don't fit those definitions apparently, so maybe there could be a definition in sex, that makes even more sense, I donno...
And aren't there also differences in the amount of genes a y/ X chromosome can have, so many y/ X chromosomes are not even the same length let alone have the same genes in it, right?
So there a spectrum could be made out too, with the amount of genes, the y and the X chromosome have.
@@Feds_the_Freds the sole fact that you invoke only TWO sex chromosomes should make you think that sex is rather binary (no matter how many of those chromosomes you have in your genome). From a genetic perspective, sex is binary. There is no inbetween. And sex should be analyzed in the context of individuals that are capable of reproducing (cause that's its purpose and that's also why breeding is called sex). As such, sterile individuals because of heterosomia or other genetical abnormality fall into one of the 2 categories: male or female. Intersex people, too.
@@socialbot9good point by saying that there are two chromosomes involved, which illustrates again that it is binary.
@@socialbot9
You said sex is binary based on ability to reproduce.
So how can sterile people be part of the sexual binary since they do not reproduce?
A quick internet search yields the text: " The mangrove killifish (Kryptolebias marmoratus) is the only vertebrate known to be capable of self-fertilization ", id est a fish can be both genders, self-fertilize, and continue for countless generations without a partner. Ok... a fish.
All things considered, gender is about progeny. Thus, the kryptolebias marmoratus has 3 genders, while humans have 2. Also this comment is NOT lacking in sensitivity, sensibility, faux-correctness. It's not 'harsh' to underline scientific truth, which is emotionally sensitive towards the next generation, which grows up in a much nicer world!
hmm the kryptolebias marmoratus doesnt have three genders though, there are hermaphrodites (true ones) and males in mangrove killifishes
There is also another factor sex chromosomes and DNA even if u develop as female if u have male DNA and a Y chromosome u would biologically male
(Edited: I initially thought the video was categorising based on gonads rather than SRY+AR)
Why do you consider the SRY gene + functioning androgen receptors to be the ultimate determinant of sex? How does this definition help with the actual lived experience of individuals whose external genitals and/or reproductive systems and/or secondary sex characteristics are significantly different than the majority of people in the "same category", regardless of having the same combo of SRY + AR? Their bodies look and function differently in a very real tangible way - deciding that they are actually one or the other based on genetic attributes we can't see instead of accepting and embracing that some people's bodies don't fall neatly into either seems much more othering and offensive to me.
Doesn't it make more sense to look at the entire picture - genetic, hormonal, genital, reproductive - take a best guess based on those in infancy, and then be open with the person as they develop so that they can indicate whether they're more comfortable living socially as male, female, or neither?
@Josh the Art Critic he's not stating facts, there is no scientific consensus on determining the "ultimate" sex of a person with an intersex condition - he's drawn a line in the sand at the SRY + androgen receptors, that line could just as well be drawn at chromosomes, or gonads, or what external genitalia most closely resembles. The whole point is that it's complex - these are cases where people don't fit neatly into the physical categories of male and female - to the extent that when they are born, doctors often *surgically alter their genitals and/or reproductive organs* to try to make them fit one or the other. Doggedly insisting sex is binary is not very convincing when faced with the reality of bodies which look and function so plainly outside of our understanding of male and female that we need to start picking apart their genetic code to see which they "really" are.
@Josh the Art Critic what is your point pal?
@Josh the Art Critic in his video "how to recognize the female" he insists repeatedly the female is defined by the production of large gametes, then here he refers to those with CAIS as females - they have testes, so definitely don't produce large gametes. He's really trying to look objective and scientific, but he has no credibility whatsoever.
@Josh the Art Critic oh right, that's because unfortunately our response medically and societally has been to just pick the "best fit" - we don't have anything in place to accommodate anyone outside of that. You'll notice for some conditions they say "genetically male" to refer to people with XY chromosomes but non-functioning androgen receptors - this video would categorise those people as female.
@Josh the Art Critic Yes, we look at the entire picture when someone is born with differences in sex development. A person born with XY but lack of functional AR has a female phenotype, and these people often don't even know they are XY until puberty starts, and they don't get periods. They were raised as females and experience the same societal issues that women do--because they have female bodies.
-"are intersex people in between? It depends how we define biological sex"
-proceeds to bash 2 strawmen and explore only one definition that conveniently allignes with the message that was intended to be pushed. And when forced to acknowledge that this reductive taxonomy is not bullet-proof and more complicated cases exist the definition is changed on the spot from /it's only about developmental pathway of gamets/ to that wishy-washy: /actually genetic, hormonal and morphological markers can be used to determine binary biological sex too/.
And the cherry on top is the emotional gasslighting of potential criticism in multiple points of the video: /oh, you think that what I said is inaccurate and intersex people actually aren't male or female bc of XYZ? well, now you are being mean to intersex people, you don't want to be mean to them, do you? better don't even make your argument and just agree with me/
It's like, yeah, if you insist on the definition that is supposed to classify intersex people as male or female then most intersex people could be classified as male or female. No shit. Framing the video around a singular trait that is the closest to actually being a binary doesn't address the fact that those people are still being treated like they are not fully male or female. And the reason behind this is not that some crazy leftists believe that sex is not binary or whatever. The real reason is the fact that actual socially constructed definitions of what it means to be biologically male or female are way more restrictive than you pretend. And this combined with the insistence that sex is binary (that you also push) creates conditions where anything that doesn't meet those rigid criteria is being seen as abnormal.
@@nailsoftherevolution6423 Biological sex is defined by the phenotypes, it's based on reproductive function, there's no other definition. "Depends on how you define" just means that if your, personal, definition is wrong, then the conclusions would be different. So you're shaping and morphing the definition so it aligns with the conclusion that you want.
There is no third gamete, so there is no third sex.
@@AlquimistEd The funny thing about your answer is that "shaping and morphing of the definition until it aligns with the conclusion you want" is precisely what reactionaries did a few years ago when they shifted talking points from chromosomes to gametes ;)
@@nailsoftherevolution6423 I don't know what you're trying to get at, I don't care about reactionaries or whatever. Chromosomes are markers through which we can determine sex, but sex is defined by reproductive function, which is defined by gamete production, and that's the only common denominator for sex in every sexually dimorphic species. There are many of those where the chromosomes don't work like they do with humans, for males and females, but the gametes stay consistent throughout species.
This is soooooo refreshing !!!Thank you !!!
Excellent.
Hi Elliot! I saw your interview with Benjamin Boyce. I am a sexual educator from Puerto Rico and have started to argue with my colleagues about the ideology seeping into science. I feel like I'm talking to a wall and have not been able to address my worries in the right way. So I've started to gather data and write about sex and gender but in Spanish :) I think you're doing something great and would love to collab to translate some of your stuff and educate more people!!!
Awesome.
I've just tweeted this.
Such clarity! Thank you.
Great video, I'm loving your new channel. Thank you 💜
We're happy you're enjoying it! Look forward to a new video every Monday (sometimes every other Monday).
Why is this so confusing to people?
Almost! It's kinda frustrating how almost right this is. Sex is determined by the presence or absence of the y chromosome. Nothing more nothing less. Those with complete androgen insensitivity are biologically male, though they may present as female. They have undescended testies though they are infertile, no uterus or ovaries.
And this is only for humans, in some other animals sex is determined by the presence or absence of the x chromosome, and in some there are sorta three genders depending on the classification, true hermaphrodite, or no/1 gender, in organisms with no dimorphism.
Sex is defined by reproductive function. Which is the same for all sexual dimorphic species.
An excellent video.
Brilliant and definitely logical explanation!!!
Is a mutt a breed?
Gender is a spectrum. Sex isn’t.