For Sure a nice video Mate, wasn't expecting a couple. But hey, Maybe that means a Tarble what if?? I've recently made what if Tarble was sent to Namek, would love your opinion on it! 👍🤙
@MasakoX Wasn't future Cell still developing at the time? I remember that it was stated that it took him about 20 years to mature in that tank. And it was implied that 17 and 18 were destroyed by Trunks before he got out of that tank.
WHAT IF The Earthlings/just one/Pan got Bulma to genetically engineer Broly's DNA into them? Imagine an even Wilder & stronger Yamcha or a controlled LSS Pan 😱
I still hate how they used Raditz. He could’ve been an incredible character with a bit of development. Edit: Thanks for the likes but it has been over 1 year and I completely disagree with this.
personally i think they offed him just so they wouldn't have to keep inking his hair. X'D dissapointing reason i know but honestly i think that's why they did it
Well King cold would had put a good fight against Goku and the z-fighters I am sure if Trunks from the future didnt arrive. Which also makes me curious that i would like to see how it would play out between mecha frieza, king cold vs goku
@@danielmedjedovic7068 Yeah, I just meant what we got, not hypothetically. It would have been cool to see how the fight would have played out in Trunks's timeline, even though we know Goku still won.
I was always of the opinion, that The Cell in the future was too weak to go against the androids, because he had not absorbed enough humans. The androids had decimated earths population, which meant that Cell would have needed to spent a lot more time to find and then absorb humans. Once he got to the past, he had an all you can eat buffet, and could power up enough to defeat them, but there in the future, not a chance.
But at the same time 17 and 18 weren't able to sense ki, it should've been possible for Future Cell to sneak up on them and absorb at least one of them - this would increase his power dramatically, so the remaining Android wouldn't be a problem. "Our" Cell would've found a way, he was cunning and smart in his 1st form. I agree with Masako that Future Cell was either pretty dumb or just a coward.
@@MasakoX Although Just on earth there's Tien and Krillin the 7 Cell Juniors Trunks Goten Piccolo Gohan Androids 17 and 18 Buu Goku and Vegeta so like not even top 10 on earth
I mean it’s funny because he says he’s one of the top three humans but master Roshi was putting in all types of work in the tournament of power. Maybe not in the manga which is the difference.
He was already one of my favorites on concept alone, not to mention his personality and techniques, that’s why I was so happy to see masako use him for something better, I’m just sad how little he was used
We can't even take Shin's comment about there being only 28 planets with civilizations on them being left. If that was the case then that'd literally just be Freeza's Empire. And if that's the case, then where does the Galactic Patrol live with their leaders? It was more likely he was referring to worlds with fighters comparable to those of Earth's, as opposed to the other thing he said.
Guy didn't even know who Zeno was even after millions of years being the Supreme Kai after the Buu attack and who said being was his boss that can literally erase anything if given the mood. I wouldn't be surprised if he really thought there were only 28 planets.
@@Eric-py8yy But no one knew about Goku. Raditz only knew about him because Goku is his little brother. They needed someone powerful to take a civilization down and Raditz was, like: "Oh, that's right! We could use Kakarot, my little brother!"
Suprised not to see Son Goten on the list. Sure he has his moments in the early Buu-Saga and then later fusions with Trunks but in Super he barely gets to do anything. And even if he has screentime it´s mostly shared with Trunks who get´s way more focus (i can see why but still).
"We already sorta did that list and it was, admittedly, quite a lot of fun despite the *low ki* rant." *WEE WOO WEE WOO* MASAKOX, THIS IS THE PUN PATROL! PUT THE PUN DOWN ON THE GROUND AND PUT YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!
It still blows my mind they havent even mentioned Raditz after his introduction--aside from his childhood appearance in the Broly movie. Not only did he shake everything our Heroes knew about the universe, he was also _Goku's brother_ of all people. Even Tarble has gotten more mentions. Lame, so lame
I kind of want one scene where Goku is in the other world and sees and meets Raditz and Bardock. So much potential and storytelling could be added for it
Daniel Medjedovic Bardock and Raditz are too evil to keep their bodies. Even if we follow filler logic, that only beings with power levels of 60,000 plus (Ginyu Force Members, up to Cell), they’d be too weak to maintain their forms in hell. Bardock’s base power was said to rival/surpass King Vegeta’s due to his constant zenkai boosts and fighting, so he’s in the realm of 20-30,000 given that Prince Vegeta in the Saiyan saga had a level of 18,000 and Doddoria claps that version of Vegeta but matches Bardock in a fight. However, the Bardock that becomes Super Saiyan very well could have a high enough power level as you first require a threshold of over 150,000 to activate it, given this was Goku’s level before getting his massive zenkai boost and facing Frieza. Explaining why Goku or Vegeta didn’t go Super Saiyan at any other point of great rage or upset during their lives, but only when they were powerful enough to be able to. Now if we followed GT logic, then they would be in Hell with their bodies intact. Given that General Blue of the Red Ribbon army still had his body and his power level must have been like 30-50.
@@papaofthejohns5882 whst due frieza keep bdoy in hell so way wont barodck radityz rnf is cnaon sdo vlalin keep worng dotn pwoe elvel if 150.000 to go ssj that made up barockl had pwoer if 10,.00 want sjs goku jr wa weak then that weak ssj
I’m sad that Majuub and Raditz were thrown to the side. I loved your What If turning into R&R version of Raditz. I also want Majuub to become a thing since they hinted about him in Super
You could argue that a lot of this uselessness was intentional. More Dragon Ball subversions. Make these characters seem useful and interesting to undercut it. Particularly Yamu. Yamu and Spopovich were like Vegeta and Nappa all over again. A smaller guy giving orders from the sidelines while his meathead buddy does the work. Using the formula, Spopovich would have been able to power through all except Goku and Vegeta while Gohan fought Yamu. Toriyama definitely took our expectations and threw them out the window with that one.
@@dubuyajay9964 Such twists his subversions have given us include Goku losing to Jackie Chun, both of Vegeta's deaths, and the villains who terrified even the slayer of Freeza originally being just a geezer and a fasto. Because Toriyama himself writes on the fly, and will straight-up ignore the expected outcome in favor of a twist just because he hates doing what the editors and audience expect from him.
@@dubuyajay9964 I mean, keep in mind that the series was supposed to only be a year long and end after Pilaf. The series' continuation past that initial saga, in and of itself, is a subversion of Toriyama and Torishima's expectations.
Sidra's partner was more active and even maniacally more active - his counterpart Kaioshin. While Sidra was rather calm and reserved, his Kaioshin would slaughter innocents without mercy. xD
10:36 You do know, Masako, that that Cell had just left the incubation chamber, right? He was looking for Androids 17 and 18 but couldn't find them, making him realise that Trunks had dealt with them. That's why he hadn't absorbed them.
@Kaiser Weeb Reverting to the larval state to time travel (may have) weakened Cell; absorbing a full city may not have gotten him back to his strength before leaving. Also, Trunks says the Androids in the main timeline are more powerful than in his timeline, so a weak Cell may have still been stronger than them.
@Frizzurd In the manga, it's never directly stated if King Cold is or isn't stronger than Frieza it's pretty much left ambiguous, however, in the anime the cast several times mention how strong he is and even imply he's most likely stronger than Frieza. As for if he is in his Second Form or not, is not known but most likely he is, judging based on the fact, that he pretty much looks exactly like Frieza did in his own Second Form, but again it's not confirmed just a speculation.
I think Imperfect Cell was too weak to fight the androids himself and was biding his time. Let’s not forget that at first, Cell was inferior to Piccolo, who was on about the same level as 17. And THAT was after absorbing an entire town. With most of humanity wiped out, there probably wasn’t enough to snack on to become the Cell who was able to one-shot Piccolo and absorb 17
What bugs me about Raditz is hes Gokus brother and yet he is never even mentioned again after the saibamen. Like not even going to try and wish him back to learn more about your family?
Sincerely, given the state of future Trunks's timeline, one would argue that Future Cell couldn't become stronger than the androids in time, not because he was useless, but because there were hardly any more humans left alive for him to eat...
As for cell You could make the argument that he wasn’t strong enough to take on the androids yet I mean come on when he came out of his shell you can’t expect him to be powerful He needed life force energy to get power to absorb them
9:00: Well to be fair with Gowasu in terms of the Universe 10 lineup, Rumsshi, and Kusu to a lesser extent, were the ones to pick the fighters out, and Gowasu was trying hard to find capable fighters beforehand until Rumsshi told Gowasu to stop thinking so hard and place his trust on his selected fighters who rely purely on muscle.
Can you make a what if Gohan Turned into an Evil/Ancient Saiyan when he went super saiyan 2? Making a play on Dragon Ball Heroes Cumber who is a evil saiyan, and how when Gohan first went supersaiyan 2 he gained a sadistic and more saiyan nature. Like playing on Atavism to explain Gohan's inherit strength instead of it being inherited from the fact he a Human/Saiyan Hybrid.
Hey Masako. I am subscribed and I was wondering if you could do a what if about what if goku balck turned good. Maybe his sayain instincts could drive him to continue training with goku.
my perspective: characters like Launch are useless, as the creator forgot she existed. tbh, if you want EVERY character to matter and get 5 episode back story/filler arcs you basically watch naruto or nothing else. raditz radically expanded the story. i'll give you majuub...in GT that guy was terrible.
Shin was self admittedly the 5th in line to become Grand Supreme Kai, far from ready to take on such a task. I kinda like that they were able to justify him being an absolutey useless guy. But. It is bizarre that when needing to create a barrier for GOku's strength to hit against, Akira went with a new god character. He wasted the chance to make Shin stronger, and then have him be the opponent Goku would eventually grow to face off against. Whis is Shin done right.
That's a pretty good point about Future Trunks' Cell. Had he become Perfect, but still be bested by the now greatly powered up Future Trunks, it would have been a neat throwback to how Trunks appeared and wiped the floor with Mecha-Freeza. And considering that Future 17 and Future 18 weren't as powerful as their main timeline counterparts, the hypothetical Perfect Cell that would have emerged likely wouldn't have too much of a challenge for Trunks to handle. Of course, it's pretty fair to say that given what ultimately happened, the entire Future Timeline was kind of useless in the end. There was a great deal of potential, as seen with various What-if? scenarios (both on here and elsewhere), and even marketability that Toei could have used with a spinoff long before they even came upon the idea to throw Super out the door when it was barely dressed and ready for showtime.
I would have thought Chi chi should have been on the list for the criminal portrayal after Dragon Ball. I can't even think of a single episode that was done from her perspective! We had a episode about baseball, but no episode about chi chi day to day chores, her shopping and cooking... Heavens forbid, her thoughts!
@@MasakoX The only thing Shin ever did was rob us of a Piccolo fight during the Tournament of Power when he showed up. And I still hold a grudge for that.
My top choice would have to be Goten and trunks. They are the sons of vegita and Goku but for the entirety of super has done nothing. The writers try to say it's cause of their age, but Gohan was around 5 when he was fighting Frieza and they even put the 2 of them up against buu who at the time was the strongest being they came in contact with, even Goku and Vegeta couldn't finish him off at the beginning. Goten doesn't even have a personality of his own, he is just a little Goku. Trunks almost had character development after his future self left with him trying to be like him but has done nothing towards that goal.
@@dubuyajay9964 And he was actually helpful at getting rid of the backstabbing and cowardly General White, after he got Goku down for the count for a bit. Eighter is a gentle person, but gentle people, when they become enraged... well...
4:42 19 became more of a "he's my first successful and under complete control machine (besides 16,) and was attempting to see if 17 and 18 were even needed to be activated, seeing as they weren't fully under his control and more or less a last resort. Basically he WAS a Yamcha character. He was there to test the enemy's strength before the real big guys came in to mop up. 19 was fine for his part.
I’ve got kind of a what if scenario for you: What if Bulma kept and reverse engineered the scouter? The scouter was always that one tool in the show I always felt has so much potential to it. I know that the original purpose of them was to give the villains a false sense of security and to show how unreliable it was, But I don’t think so, not really. When’s the Freeza arc was finished The only thing that really sticks around about them is in supplementary material where they show characters power levels. If Bulma had managed to reverse engineer the stuff I could see a few things happening. They would’ve been able to track down the androids better, if Dr. Gero had gotten ahold of some mass produced version of the stuff he could’ve incorporated it into his androids making them far deadlier. Being able to hunt you down as well as being near unstoppable, or he could’ve Incorporated such tech into Cell making him an even more terrifying monster, (even allowing him to hunt 17 and 18 at his leisure) Plus search tech introduced into Earth Society would allow for the dispelling of Hercule decrying all the special abilities as merely tricks. I could even see it being used in the worlds martial arts tournament, “you need a power level of 100 minimum to enter.”
In defense of future Cell, the androids on that timeline went on rampage and destroyed most of the human race and cell couldn't absorb the humans on those cities to the point he's strong enough to absorb #17 and #18. At least when Cell was presented to the viewers, he ran away from a confrontation with Piccolo, nad i got the impression that he wasnt comfortable enough to fight him.
Even if Tarble _was_ meant to be a subversion, which is probably pretty likely, wouldn't it be nice to have him going about his life as part of the supporting cast? But instead he just vanished and was never heard from again.
You forgot one more: Chi-chi after Dragon Ball, honestly could have actually helped her family being stronger if her stubborn brashness to quit then blind her to the bigger picture of the dangers of these villains! Causing a back and forth Thrift that caused Gohan to struggle at a young age and with Goten being forced into Goku shadow! Yamcha or Tarble can definitely beat her in a fight even with her Kaioken!
Well also keep in mind the androids were blowing up more people than he could probably absorb. So by the time he gets out of the embryonic chamber, theres probably less than enough people to be "enough" to absorb 17 and 18. Thats never explained though and just a thought ive had for a really long time.
And its not even before he comes out of embryonic maturation, 17 and 18 were blowing up his food source either way which keeps him from getting stronger altogether.
That's what I like about you. You aren't influenced by memes or personal bias like all the other people who watch this show. You're more rational and analytical about things.
In all fairness, I was under the impression that Future Cell didn't leave his larval stage until sometime *after* Future 17 and 18 were gone. Or was there a comment I missed somewhere? The *real* question here is, "WHY DIDN'T FUTURE TRUNKS FIND GERO'S SUB-LAB AND WIPE OUT FUTURE CELL BEFORE HE LEFT THE TANK ONCE HE KNEW WHERE IT WAS?!"
Gawasu was someone I really felt sorry for. After his. Apprentice literally was going to stab him in the back he was going threw a lot and as a result couldn’t find ten Warriors on his own to fight in the tournament of power. And his team was the second to get eliminated. He’s deserved more than that. Frankly I’m surprised no one gave the guy a hug
but gawasu could used has briwahs he has time ring he jump head use the super dragonballs to wish zamshu goku black in has timeline as good poole then jump ehad agin to rtbing has tiemline zmashu abck as good paosn then jump head aigna to wish for marged zmahsu to be has own paosn and good guy put hat timeline super balls have no lmit to wish they do so dragno vould do that it wood make has tewam better
On the subject of Uub travelling through space om GT... I'd thought about that a bit. I think that would have been more interesting for reasons other than what you've mentioned. You see, the trio of Goku, Trunks and Pan didn't really have any meat to it. I think Uub would have presented an excellent chance for some conflict between characters. Think about it like this. Pan hasn't seen her grandfather in ten years because he was off training Uub. There's bound to be a little resentment there, right? Have Pan not like Uub all that much because of that, and she has to develop to get over that dislike when she sees that he is a worthy student. There's a lot in this idea that a good writer - even an average writer - could do something interesting with. But... that would involve things like character growth, which could mean throwing aside the status quo, which would be bad for MARKETING!
I have an idea for how tarbles story could be improved Maybe whatever villain he warns the dragon team about could be somehow related to himself, likely utilizing a similar tactic as frost though technically it’ll be his associate doing more of the dirty work rather than being hips deep on his own, but in relation to earth I’d suspect that he’d take a go at the dragon balls to wish for some method of boosting his power do to his lackluster battle-power being the primary reason he was turned away in the first place (likely reinforced after truly seeing how much his brother surpasses him in that regard)
I was under the impression that trunk's future cell just showed up too late to absorb the androids. There was no hint of this not being the case in the anime and manga unless I remember wrong. I'd like to know if this is just my head canon or not because it always made sense to me this way.
You know I'm going to defend Sidra a little bit because I think it demonstrates something with the universes and that is balance. Because if you have a G.O.D. that overworks with a SK who does nothing then everything gets destroyed. If you flip those you get Sidra's Mad Max universe where there's total chaos. Universe 7 is in many ways the example of a perfect universe because neither Shin nor Beerus actually do all that much with some exceptions. The balancing of forces means mortals can fight and grow stronger amongst themselves which fits right in with Super's (and probably greater Dragonball's) theme of exceeding ones own perceived limitations. I'd imagine that likewise a universe where SK and GOD are both overactive are fine because the force of creation and destruction are in balance. So I don't think Sidra is necessarily a bad GOD, he's just poorly balanced with his SK.
The future imperfect cell you mentioned didn't have several thousand people to feed off of before going after the androids, since they had wiped them out.
ChimeraCorp plus remember the reason why he tried to ambush Trunks in the first place, Trunks have already beaten the androids and very likely just woke up
Ok here’s a hot take for anyone in this comment section, Kales arguably a pointless character. Ok so anyone who read past that part, hear me out. Yes she’s a strong fighter, yes she helps Potata fusion more viable and yes she’s a great dynamic with Caulifla. The problem is she’s a shallow character who does develop slightly but not as well as other wel known DB characters. She gradually leans to adapt the Berserk SSJ transformation... only to fuse into Kefla then be eliminated. Also probably the most glaring issue everyone seems to forget is SHES BASICALLY FEMALE BROLY!!! Like the original Broly to capitalize on his “legacy” in the franchise before Toriyama made his version of Broly. To summarize, she’s got the potential to be a good character but hasn’t shown it and doubtful unless Toei changes that. It’s simply my opinion and it’s understandable if you don’t like/agree with it
SpikeBros00 to be fair she definitely has more character and more development than the original broly did. He was just an autistic hulk that was only bad because Goku cried while kale at least had a reason to get mad
I feel like Kenkichi from Dragonball could be on this list. He developed such a strong bond with Goku during his one episode, and then we never hear from him again. They could have even made him Pan's teacher in Super Hero as a nice little easter egg and to show that he kept his promise of turning his life around and becoming a teacher, but nope.
Thank you for watching! Please like and subscribe if you found the video to your liking and have a very good day!
AMAZING Discussion-VIDEO, @MasakoX
For Sure a nice video Mate, wasn't expecting a couple. But hey, Maybe that means a Tarble what if??
I've recently made what if Tarble was sent to Namek, would love your opinion on it! 👍🤙
@MasakoX
Wasn't future Cell still developing at the time? I remember that it was stated that it took him about 20 years to mature in that tank. And it was implied that 17 and 18 were destroyed by Trunks before he got out of that tank.
WHAT IF
The Earthlings/just one/Pan got Bulma to genetically engineer Broly's DNA into them? Imagine an even Wilder & stronger Yamcha or a controlled LSS Pan 😱
OR WHAT IF
Dr. Gero made an ANDROID out of RADITZ??? Android Type R??? 😱😱😱
I still hate how they used Raditz. He could’ve been an incredible character with a bit of development.
Edit: Thanks for the likes but it has been over 1 year and I completely disagree with this.
NoobMaster69 as Masako himself demostrated
What if Dr. Gero made RADITZ Android 🤔😱
Yea I agree, to this day he's still my favourite looking of all sayains (including goku and all half/quarter sayains)
personally i think they offed him just so they wouldn't have to keep inking his hair. X'D dissapointing reason i know but honestly i think that's why they did it
There are times I wish Toriyama wasn't so wishy washy on characters
Masakox: there is a difference between being useless and being weak.
Vegeta: *NANI?!?*
Nigel Powers: It's not about the size of your ki, mate. It's how you use it.
It's not about the length of your magnum dong, it's how you use thy dong.
There is a difference between useless and being Bulma
Yamcha's both!
@@thesymbiotenation.4552 No he wasn't. Yamcha was never useless and he's one of the strongest humans on earth.
Was kinda expecting King Cold to be on here. All he was good for was to further reinforce how badass Trunks is.
Well King cold would had put a good fight against Goku and the z-fighters I am sure if Trunks from the future didnt arrive. Which also makes me curious that i would like to see how it would play out between mecha frieza, king cold vs goku
@@danielmedjedovic7068 Yeah, I just meant what we got, not hypothetically. It would have been cool to see how the fight would have played out in Trunks's timeline, even though we know Goku still won.
yeah goku still won. But would be cool if they showed us the fight, mostly because it was a rematch btw frieza and goku as well against friezas father
An arc with vegeta as the lead woiluld have done it
It's hard to tell who jobbed out hardest: him or his darling little angel.
I was always of the opinion, that The Cell in the future was too weak to go against the androids, because he had not absorbed enough humans. The androids had decimated earths population, which meant that Cell would have needed to spent a lot more time to find and then absorb humans. Once he got to the past, he had an all you can eat buffet, and could power up enough to defeat them, but there in the future, not a chance.
tomleimbach
Agreed
This actually makes a lot of sense to me.
Schrenner
Same here
tomleimbach that’s what I said
But at the same time 17 and 18 weren't able to sense ki, it should've been possible for Future Cell to sneak up on them and absorb at least one of them - this would increase his power dramatically, so the remaining Android wouldn't be a problem. "Our" Cell would've found a way, he was cunning and smart in his 1st form. I agree with Masako that Future Cell was either pretty dumb or just a coward.
After that super chapter Yamcha ain't even weak. My man has technically been one of the stronger people in universe 7 for years.
Yup! The Rise of Yamcha is upon us.
@@MasakoX Although Just on earth there's Tien and Krillin the 7 Cell Juniors Trunks Goten Piccolo Gohan Androids 17 and 18 Buu Goku and Vegeta so like not even top 10 on earth
Obviously
I mean it’s funny because he says he’s one of the top three humans but master Roshi was putting in all types of work in the tournament of power. Maybe not in the manga which is the difference.
And yet he was straight up ignored for the ToP.
Only Masakox can turn Raditz from totally useless to one of my favorite characters....
One is glad to be of service.
@@MasakoX the hero we need but do no deserve ✌🏻😔
That just shows the potential that Raditz had and then the writers wasted
Same
He was already one of my favorites on concept alone, not to mention his personality and techniques, that’s why I was so happy to see masako use him for something better, I’m just sad how little he was used
We can't even take Shin's comment about there being only 28 planets with civilizations on them being left. If that was the case then that'd literally just be Freeza's Empire. And if that's the case, then where does the Galactic Patrol live with their leaders? It was more likely he was referring to worlds with fighters comparable to those of Earth's, as opposed to the other thing he said.
It could only be possible if they count frieza empire as one civilization..
My guess is that universe 7 is like earth after krakatoa ,with civolizations destroyed And plenty of space
Also How bad os universe 9 ,in comparisson
I mean, recent manga arch is showing a ton of races and worlds, and thats all I'll say to not spoil stuff, soo..Shin is likely wrong, again.
Guy didn't even know who Zeno was even after millions of years being the Supreme Kai after the Buu attack and who said being was his boss that can literally erase anything if given the mood. I wouldn't be surprised if he really thought there were only 28 planets.
No character is useless- it is the author that uses them uselessly
You right, you right
No it's the editor
Is "Uselessly" even a word?
To-mate-to To-mata-to
Lord Yamcha watch out there is a Saibaman!!!
So "most replaceable," more so than useless. Their use could be given to anyone else.
Raditz could be a random Saiyan that story wouldn't change
@@Eric-py8yy Actually, Raditz needs to be related to Goku. This is the only reason why he knew about Goku's existence and location.
@@Ms.FortuneTeller well could be basically like a random Saiyan that was sent to Goku location to check out him and take him back
@@Eric-py8yy But no one knew about Goku. Raditz only knew about him because Goku is his little brother.
They needed someone powerful to take a civilization down and Raditz was, like: "Oh, that's right! We could use Kakarot, my little brother!"
Once the saiyan curse gets a hold of a saiyan you become useless...
I'd say the yamcha curse is worse.
@@kanokingdom3321 Yamcha is at least entertaining.
The wicked saiyan curse 😢
I hate that I get this reference...
@@antitheist3206 same...
Suprised not to see Son Goten on the list. Sure he has his moments in the early Buu-Saga and then later fusions with Trunks but in Super he barely gets to do anything. And even if he has screentime it´s mostly shared with Trunks who get´s way more focus (i can see why but still).
Kid Trunks is a brat and thinks his father is strong he can insult his opponents
@@emmanuelojurongbe758 yes but still he shared a moment with his alternative self
"We already sorta did that list and it was, admittedly, quite a lot of fun despite the *low ki* rant."
*WEE WOO WEE WOO* MASAKOX, THIS IS THE PUN PATROL! PUT THE PUN DOWN ON THE GROUND AND PUT YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!
Hahaha, you know that secretly you love these really.
@@MasakoX It's because of those puns that I'll stay subscribed (for now.).
MasakoX (busts through wall) come with me if you want to live.
It still blows my mind they havent even mentioned Raditz after his introduction--aside from his childhood appearance in the Broly movie. Not only did he shake everything our Heroes knew about the universe, he was also _Goku's brother_ of all people. Even Tarble has gotten more mentions. Lame, so lame
I kind of want one scene where Goku is in the other world and sees and meets Raditz and Bardock. So much potential and storytelling could be added for it
Daniel Medjedovic Bardock and Raditz are too evil to keep their bodies.
Even if we follow filler logic, that only beings with power levels of 60,000 plus (Ginyu Force Members, up to Cell), they’d be too weak to maintain their forms in hell. Bardock’s base power was said to rival/surpass King Vegeta’s due to his constant zenkai boosts and fighting, so he’s in the realm of 20-30,000 given that Prince Vegeta in the Saiyan saga had a level of 18,000 and Doddoria claps that version of Vegeta but matches Bardock in a fight.
However, the Bardock that becomes Super Saiyan very well could have a high enough power level as you first require a threshold of over 150,000 to activate it, given this was Goku’s level before getting his massive zenkai boost and facing Frieza. Explaining why Goku or Vegeta didn’t go Super Saiyan at any other point of great rage or upset during their lives, but only when they were powerful enough to be able to.
Now if we followed GT logic, then they would be in Hell with their bodies intact. Given that General Blue of the Red Ribbon army still had his body and his power level must have been like 30-50.
Raditz was weaker than a Sayabaman. He was a nobody that was used as a stepping stone
MrBowser And that’s the problem. He should have been a bigger part of the story.
@@papaofthejohns5882 whst due frieza keep bdoy in hell so way wont barodck radityz rnf is cnaon sdo vlalin keep worng dotn pwoe elvel if 150.000 to go ssj that made up barockl had pwoer if 10,.00 want sjs goku jr wa weak then that weak ssj
I’m sad that Majuub and Raditz were thrown to the side. I loved your What If turning into R&R version of Raditz. I also want Majuub to become a thing since they hinted about him in Super
It is a shame how hard Shin fell off. And Raditz...he's just absurd. Why do Saiyan brothers get the brush off so hard!?
You could argue that a lot of this uselessness was intentional. More Dragon Ball subversions. Make these characters seem useful and interesting to undercut it. Particularly Yamu. Yamu and Spopovich were like Vegeta and Nappa all over again. A smaller guy giving orders from the sidelines while his meathead buddy does the work. Using the formula, Spopovich would have been able to power through all except Goku and Vegeta while Gohan fought Yamu. Toriyama definitely took our expectations and threw them out the window with that one.
I wish Toriyama would stop doing the Shymalan at times. A lot of his subversions make no sense.
@@dubuyajay9964 Such twists his subversions have given us include Goku losing to Jackie Chun, both of Vegeta's deaths, and the villains who terrified even the slayer of Freeza originally being just a geezer and a fasto. Because Toriyama himself writes on the fly, and will straight-up ignore the expected outcome in favor of a twist just because he hates doing what the editors and audience expect from him.
@@Trunks1stApprentice And that is why he fails so often.
@@dubuyajay9964 I mean, keep in mind that the series was supposed to only be a year long and end after Pilaf. The series' continuation past that initial saga, in and of itself, is a subversion of Toriyama and Torishima's expectations.
Trunks1stApprentice Big difference between Dragon Ball subversions and being lazy.
Masako-your Question for Future Third Cell bit was PERFECT!! I absolutely loved it!!
Sidra's partner was more active and even maniacally more active - his counterpart Kaioshin. While Sidra was rather calm and reserved, his Kaioshin would slaughter innocents without mercy. xD
10:36
You do know, Masako, that that Cell had just left the incubation chamber, right? He was looking for Androids 17 and 18 but couldn't find them, making him realise that Trunks had dealt with them. That's why he hadn't absorbed them.
Also, why would making him ANOTHER Pefect Cell be a good story resolution... >.>
Kaiser Weeb
Consistency isn’t Toriyama’s style, if it gets the plot moving then it is possible and will happen
@Kaiser Weeb Reverting to the larval state to time travel (may have) weakened Cell; absorbing a full city may not have gotten him back to his strength before leaving.
Also, Trunks says the Androids in the main timeline are more powerful than in his timeline, so a weak Cell may have still been stronger than them.
I half expect Masako's hair to turn green in one of these videos, and him just start yelling "28 Planets" for the rest of the video. xD
Raditz isn't useless! I love him!!❤
We owe Masako a big thank you, he showed how one of the best couples on this channel in Launch and Raditz was completely wasted potential.
What about launch? She was written out entirely outside of a single cameo
Moral of the story: Unless you're an Android don't be anyone's sibling
v92 gohan and goten? caulifla and kale?
@@endofyeww20 yes
Im 99% sure caulifla and kale arent sisters theu just call eachother that
@@zappyvermin9666 yes
Oolong: loses rock-paper-scissors
Me: "The old Oolong could have sprouted two more arms and played all three."
The Masako Universes are some of the best of DB. Shame we won't see them on screen.
I agree with your picks i wish they did more with raditz. i wish he was in fighterz
Well not everyone gets to go places but I still feel it was sad with what they did to Raditz.
Mittens FastPaw
Same here
I feel like your videos are way less goofy stuff and more thoughtful throughout. I really like it
"Sidra and Shin in the same universe"
Thanks, MasakoX. It's not like I wanted to sleep tonight...
XD
I'm surprised King Cold wasn't on the list, but still good, as always MasakoX.
@Frizzurd In the manga, it's never directly stated if King Cold is or isn't stronger than Frieza it's pretty much left ambiguous, however, in the anime the cast several times mention how strong he is and even imply he's most likely stronger than Frieza. As for if he is in his Second Form or not, is not known but most likely he is, judging based on the fact, that he pretty much looks exactly like Frieza did in his own Second Form, but again it's not confirmed just a speculation.
I think Imperfect Cell was too weak to fight the androids himself and was biding his time. Let’s not forget that at first, Cell was inferior to Piccolo, who was on about the same level as 17. And THAT was after absorbing an entire town. With most of humanity wiped out, there probably wasn’t enough to snack on to become the Cell who was able to one-shot Piccolo and absorb 17
Digizel the Bui
Makes sense
He should have absorbed the local wildlife at that point. It would have been better than nothing.
Christian Cinnabars
True
@@christiancinnabars1402 I imagine he probably was, but it wasn't moving the needle as much as he needed it too.
Digizel the Bui well he also never found them apparently so there was that.
Did the Grand Kai not make the list because we’ve all forgotten about him? I mean, when Shin is the “fixed” version of you...
What if Tarble and Raditz made an alliance?! The absolute dream team!
Gowasu not the worst supreme kai?
EPIC FORESHADOWING!
You should do a "What if" of what if 19 and 20 were the only villains of the Android Saga
Krillin be clappin clown cheeks instead
Seven Sevens Boiii
Alternatively, What if Toriyama never listened to his editors
the saga would end before it began effectively
What bugs me about Raditz is hes Gokus brother and yet he is never even mentioned again after the saibamen. Like not even going to try and wish him back to learn more about your family?
This is the one I was looking forward to all week. Good morning everyone
Raditz not being used after revealing that stuff doesn't make him useless
Thank you for all the videos Masako. Love the channel
Sincerely, given the state of future Trunks's timeline, one would argue that Future Cell couldn't become stronger than the androids in time, not because he was useless, but because there were hardly any more humans left alive for him to eat...
Definitely liked the list. Fun, debatable (in a safe way), and overall enticing for more conversations about the franchise.
no offense but i forgot who you were for like half a second and was like "damn, chris ray gun got nerdy", great video and i'm sorry
Vegeta: You can never defeat me!
Raditz: I know, but he can
What If Raditz: RANCH DARLING, IT'S ASS KICKING TIME!
Catching up on old Masako vids!
As for cell
You could make the argument that he wasn’t strong enough to take on the androids yet
I mean come on when he came out of his shell you can’t expect him to be powerful
He needed life force energy to get power to absorb them
He did also have to absorb multiple small towns and piccolo's arm to go against them and thanks to the Androids both weren't all that plentiful
It's also worth noting that as skilled as he was, the main Cell also failed to absorb the androids in his timeline.
geek freak17
True
yeah he shouldn't be on the list. come on Masako. the andriods could have been taken out by trunks before he was strong enough to go after them.
@@AkumaKristian Not for the lack of trying, Trunks destroyed or deactivated them before he had his chance.
Vegeta: But my heart is exceptionally pure. Pure evil to the core.
9:00: Well to be fair with Gowasu in terms of the Universe 10 lineup, Rumsshi, and Kusu to a lesser extent, were the ones to pick the fighters out, and Gowasu was trying hard to find capable fighters beforehand until Rumsshi told Gowasu to stop thinking so hard and place his trust on his selected fighters who rely purely on muscle.
gizmo123473
Indeed
Can you make a what if Gohan Turned into an Evil/Ancient Saiyan when he went super saiyan 2?
Making a play on Dragon Ball Heroes Cumber who is a evil saiyan, and how when Gohan first went supersaiyan 2 he gained a sadistic and more saiyan nature.
Like playing on Atavism to explain Gohan's inherit strength instead of it being inherited from the fact he a Human/Saiyan Hybrid.
Hey Masako. I am subscribed and I was wondering if you could do a what if about what if goku balck turned good. Maybe his sayain instincts could drive him to continue training with goku.
I have thought about doing a video about how Goku Black could've had that Saiyan influence change him even more and change.
MasakoX I would love to see that. Thanks for replying!
#10 *_RADITZ_*
"THIS IS A BETRAYAL MOST FOUL, MASAKO! We were fools to have gone along with the What if Raditz turned good charade!!" >:(
Especially how Dbz Sparking neo did with that
my perspective: characters like Launch are useless, as the creator forgot she existed. tbh, if you want EVERY character to matter and get 5 episode back story/filler arcs you basically watch naruto or nothing else. raditz radically expanded the story. i'll give you majuub...in GT that guy was terrible.
Shin was self admittedly the 5th in line to become Grand Supreme Kai, far from ready to take on such a task. I kinda like that they were able to justify him being an absolutey useless guy. But. It is bizarre that when needing to create a barrier for GOku's strength to hit against, Akira went with a new god character. He wasted the chance to make Shin stronger, and then have him be the opponent Goku would eventually grow to face off against. Whis is Shin done right.
MasakoX: I would have been disappointed had you not put Raditz on the list.
That's a pretty good point about Future Trunks' Cell. Had he become Perfect, but still be bested by the now greatly powered up Future Trunks, it would have been a neat throwback to how Trunks appeared and wiped the floor with Mecha-Freeza. And considering that Future 17 and Future 18 weren't as powerful as their main timeline counterparts, the hypothetical Perfect Cell that would have emerged likely wouldn't have too much of a challenge for Trunks to handle.
Of course, it's pretty fair to say that given what ultimately happened, the entire Future Timeline was kind of useless in the end. There was a great deal of potential, as seen with various What-if? scenarios (both on here and elsewhere), and even marketability that Toei could have used with a spinoff long before they even came upon the idea to throw Super out the door when it was barely dressed and ready for showtime.
What if suggestion, what if Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta all lived and turned good
Sidra literally looks like a Santa with red hair, a bald spot, and a G.O.D.'s outfit.
I would have thought Chi chi should have been on the list for the criminal portrayal after Dragon Ball. I can't even think of a single episode that was done from her perspective! We had a episode about baseball, but no episode about chi chi day to day chores, her shopping and cooking... Heavens forbid, her thoughts!
Shin, he could have prevented everything!
At the very least, he should've maintained an air of mystique about him.
@@MasakoX The only thing Shin ever did was rob us of a Piccolo fight during the Tournament of Power when he showed up. And I still hold a grudge for that.
@@Darkryn99 How exactly did Shin rob us of a Piccolo fight during the ToP? As I recall, Piccolo had a really great showing during it.
@@Warrior_of_Fire he means the World Tournament where Piccolo forfeited
Yeah I didn't like that raditz was done dirty in Z i wish we could've seen more of him and should've turned into a good guy
My top choice would have to be Goten and trunks. They are the sons of vegita and Goku but for the entirety of super has done nothing. The writers try to say it's cause of their age, but Gohan was around 5 when he was fighting Frieza and they even put the 2 of them up against buu who at the time was the strongest being they came in contact with, even Goku and Vegeta couldn't finish him off at the beginning. Goten doesn't even have a personality of his own, he is just a little Goku. Trunks almost had character development after his future self left with him trying to be like him but has done nothing towards that goal.
And don't forget how they botched things up with their fusion into Gotenks.
jonathan taylor
Agreed
rdphoenix07
Indeed
Eighter, he could have been a strong ally for Goku in the original DB, but "I don't like to fight!"
Eh, it was a laudible idea and different to robots and such. Also Mary Shelley's creature didn't want to fight either so parallels there.
@@MasakoX But he still did so.
@@dubuyajay9964 And he was actually helpful at getting rid of the backstabbing and cowardly General White, after he got Goku down for the count for a bit. Eighter is a gentle person, but gentle people, when they become enraged... well...
16 didn't wanna fight either..
@@Lightgod87 that's like gohan
4:42
19 became more of a "he's my first successful and under complete control machine (besides 16,) and was attempting to see if 17 and 18 were even needed to be activated, seeing as they weren't fully under his control and more or less a last resort.
Basically he WAS a Yamcha character. He was there to test the enemy's strength before the real big guys came in to mop up.
19 was fine for his part.
I think he should’ve put chi-chi on the list besides giving birth to gohan What did she do
I’ve got kind of a what if scenario for you:
What if Bulma kept and reverse engineered the scouter?
The scouter was always that one tool in the show I always felt has so much potential to it. I know that the original purpose of them was to give the villains a false sense of security and to show how unreliable it was,
But I don’t think so, not really.
When’s the Freeza arc was finished The only thing that really sticks around about them is in supplementary material where they show characters power levels.
If Bulma had managed to reverse engineer the stuff I could see a few things happening.
They would’ve been able to track down the androids better, if Dr. Gero had gotten ahold of some mass produced version of the stuff he could’ve incorporated it into his androids making them far deadlier. Being able to hunt you down as well as being near unstoppable, or he could’ve Incorporated such tech into Cell making him an even more terrifying monster, (even allowing him to hunt 17 and 18 at his leisure)
Plus search tech introduced into Earth Society would allow for the dispelling of Hercule decrying all the special abilities as merely tricks.
I could even see it being used in the worlds martial arts tournament, “you need a power level of 100 minimum to enter.”
Nazo- kage
Agreed
Masako: Now before you say anything, there's a difference between being useless and being...
Me: YAMCHA!!
In defense of future Cell, the androids on that timeline went on rampage and destroyed most of the human race and cell couldn't absorb the humans on those cities to the point he's strong enough to absorb #17 and #18.
At least when Cell was presented to the viewers, he ran away from a confrontation with Piccolo, nad i got the impression that he wasnt comfortable enough to fight him.
Even if Tarble _was_ meant to be a subversion, which is probably pretty likely, wouldn't it be nice to have him going about his life as part of the supporting cast? But instead he just vanished and was never heard from again.
You forgot one more: Chi-chi after Dragon Ball, honestly could have actually helped her family being stronger if her stubborn brashness to quit then blind her to the bigger picture of the dangers of these villains! Causing a back and forth Thrift that caused Gohan to struggle at a young age and with Goten being forced into Goku shadow! Yamcha or Tarble can definitely beat her in a fight even with her Kaioken!
Just now realizing the parallels between Tarble and Raditz
Why Raditz, MasakoX? Just,why?
I have to put my R&R feelings aside here and be pragmatic about the original source material. It pains me too, it really does.
The Virgin Satan vs The Chad Yamcha
Hopefull akiranmakes a good movie about Raditz returning and achieving powers from hell to take revenge
Well also keep in mind the androids were blowing up more people than he could probably absorb. So by the time he gets out of the embryonic chamber, theres probably less than enough people to be "enough" to absorb 17 and 18. Thats never explained though and just a thought ive had for a really long time.
And its not even before he comes out of embryonic maturation, 17 and 18 were blowing up his food source either way which keeps him from getting stronger altogether.
Oh yeah, hated the ''Swamp Thing'' Broly
That's what I like about you. You aren't influenced by memes or personal bias like all the other people who watch this show. You're more rational and analytical about things.
19 deserved more credit. Had he been more powerful, or designed to be more scary in practice, then they could’ve been genuinely interesting
Had he been one of the two MAIN villains of the arc, he would've done much more.
City Guard same could be said for any character
Raditz could have been replaced with Appule or Namole and it wouldn’t have made a difference.
In all fairness, I was under the impression that Future Cell didn't leave his larval stage until sometime *after* Future 17 and 18 were gone. Or was there a comment I missed somewhere?
The *real* question here is, "WHY DIDN'T FUTURE TRUNKS FIND GERO'S SUB-LAB AND WIPE OUT FUTURE CELL BEFORE HE LEFT THE TANK ONCE HE KNEW WHERE IT WAS?!"
As much as I like the new Broly, I feel the old DBS Broly villain would’ve been cool to see as a different character
Gawasu was someone I really felt sorry for. After his. Apprentice literally was going to stab him in the back he was going threw a lot and as a result couldn’t find ten Warriors on his own to fight in the tournament of power. And his team was the second to get eliminated. He’s deserved more than that. Frankly I’m surprised no one gave the guy a hug
but gawasu could used has briwahs he has time ring he jump head use the super dragonballs to wish zamshu goku black in has timeline as good poole then jump ehad agin to rtbing has tiemline zmashu abck as good paosn then jump head aigna to wish for marged zmahsu to be has own paosn and good guy put hat timeline super balls have no lmit to wish they do so dragno vould do that it wood make has tewam better
Hellsing reference right off the bat but it's a matter of perspective really
I disagree, android 19 taught us that machines experience fear.
Haven’t finished the video yet, but Dog King better be on here.
Edit: ...damn.
Zannek The Lion “King Furry” is his canon name XD
MV96 You’re right. I’m a dummy and forgot his name. That’s how useless he is!
king furry is great tho as a leader. he really cares about his people.
i love that RADITZ IS GOKU OF MASAKO'S CHANNEL
On the subject of Uub travelling through space om GT... I'd thought about that a bit. I think that would have been more interesting for reasons other than what you've mentioned.
You see, the trio of Goku, Trunks and Pan didn't really have any meat to it. I think Uub would have presented an excellent chance for some conflict between characters.
Think about it like this. Pan hasn't seen her grandfather in ten years because he was off training Uub. There's bound to be a little resentment there, right? Have Pan not like Uub all that much because of that, and she has to develop to get over that dislike when she sees that he is a worthy student. There's a lot in this idea that a good writer - even an average writer - could do something interesting with.
But... that would involve things like character growth, which could mean throwing aside the status quo, which would be bad for MARKETING!
I have an idea for how tarbles story could be improved
Maybe whatever villain he warns the dragon team about could be somehow related to himself, likely utilizing a similar tactic as frost though technically it’ll be his associate doing more of the dirty work rather than being hips deep on his own, but in relation to earth I’d suspect that he’d take a go at the dragon balls to wish for some method of boosting his power do to his lackluster battle-power being the primary reason he was turned away in the first place (likely reinforced after truly seeing how much his brother surpasses him in that regard)
I mean dont they grow on trees like fruit? Maybe shin got picked before he was ripe with knowledge.and hes at the level he was picked cause of buu
SumRanDumb GuyVI
Makes sense
@@RickyUzumaki993 so maybe not entirely his fault
SumRanDumb GuyVI
Maybe
What even is the starting gate for a anime? First 5/10 episodes or when the plot happens?
Cabba = Discount or Universe 6 Tarble
I was under the impression that trunk's future cell just showed up too late to absorb the androids. There was no hint of this not being the case in the anime and manga unless I remember wrong. I'd like to know if this is just my head canon or not because it always made sense to me this way.
You know I'm going to defend Sidra a little bit because I think it demonstrates something with the universes and that is balance. Because if you have a G.O.D. that overworks with a SK who does nothing then everything gets destroyed. If you flip those you get Sidra's Mad Max universe where there's total chaos. Universe 7 is in many ways the example of a perfect universe because neither Shin nor Beerus actually do all that much with some exceptions. The balancing of forces means mortals can fight and grow stronger amongst themselves which fits right in with Super's (and probably greater Dragonball's) theme of exceeding ones own perceived limitations. I'd imagine that likewise a universe where SK and GOD are both overactive are fine because the force of creation and destruction are in balance. So I don't think Sidra is necessarily a bad GOD, he's just poorly balanced with his SK.
oh boy this is one interesting topic for DBZ(+DBS) discussion.
I would really like to see a what if on goku not coming back for a day for the tournament.
Was thinking of putting this on masakoxs reddit. Some cool things could come of this idea
I want to see 1st form cell with a newspaper 😂
The future imperfect cell you mentioned didn't have several thousand people to feed off of before going after the androids, since they had wiped them out.
ChimeraCorp plus remember the reason why he tried to ambush Trunks in the first place, Trunks have already beaten the androids and very likely just woke up
kid buu has been so powercreeped that uub has lost all appeal as being goku's successor.
The manga has brought some interesting possibilities about uub
Ok here’s a hot take for anyone in this comment section, Kales arguably a pointless character.
Ok so anyone who read past that part, hear me out. Yes she’s a strong fighter, yes she helps Potata fusion more viable and yes she’s a great dynamic with Caulifla. The problem is she’s a shallow character who does develop slightly but not as well as other wel known DB characters. She gradually leans to adapt the Berserk SSJ transformation... only to fuse into Kefla then be eliminated. Also probably the most glaring issue everyone seems to forget is SHES BASICALLY FEMALE BROLY!!! Like the original Broly to capitalize on his “legacy” in the franchise before Toriyama made his version of Broly.
To summarize, she’s got the potential to be a good character but hasn’t shown it and doubtful unless Toei changes that. It’s simply my opinion and it’s understandable if you don’t like/agree with it
SpikeBros00
You have a point there
SpikeBros00 to be fair she definitely has more character and more development than the original broly did. He was just an autistic hulk that was only bad because Goku cried while kale at least had a reason to get mad
dickheadmilkyway
Hey! As someone who’s on the spectrum, I take offense to that!
Ricardo Ortiz-Joseph to what
dickheadmilkyway
That “autistic Hulk” thing
I feel like Kenkichi from Dragonball could be on this list. He developed such a strong bond with Goku during his one episode, and then we never hear from him again. They could have even made him Pan's teacher in Super Hero as a nice little easter egg and to show that he kept his promise of turning his life around and becoming a teacher, but nope.