Not really. That applies to mordhau much more. Mordhau actually has a perk called flesh wound where you can survive for a few seconds after your arm gets cut off. Then add all the bards, the foppish voicelines, the ridiculous costumes and mordhau wins
@@alec4025 in chiv2 anyone and everyone has a possibility of surviving dismemberment. It's possible to survive even BOTH of your arms getting cut off, leaving you only able to kick and headbutt.
@@id-nullfunny enough if you manage to kill someone whilst having your arm(s) cut off you can keep going. Before getting a kill you have a bleed out meter which limits how long you can live
@@id-nullmordhau has way better customization. if looking like everyone else is cool with you, chiv is ur game. mordhau is for ppl with better taste ig
Been playing Chivalry for about a week now and it is hands down the most fun I've ever had in a multiplayer game. We had a guy playing music smack dab in the middle of the battlefield and not a single soul from either faction touched him. Heads rolling limbs flying into his lap blood soaked his lute but not a single person tried to harm him. This really is a beautiful game, with a beautiful community.
@@rashaadevans4647 Mordhau is just not as accessible. I like this genre, but we just can't deny that Mordhau combat is like a dude with his sword above his head spinning drag morphing 360 no scope crouch swinging. Great for those who have perfected the advanced moves, but most people really have no shot. As a result, you will just naturally have a less fun, smaller player base. But hey, if you like sweat, Mordhau is for you
@@prospectbasement6723 my friend played the game for 3 days(not actual in game time) after only ever playing rocket league and CoD his whole life and now can go 20 and 8 consistently. No offense to you, i just think most people arent mentally competent enough to be able to play video games with any sort of difficulty. They get angry and upset in the face of challenge instead of excited that a game is hard and rewarding. This is why games like pokemon or even shit like rocket league are so popular, theyre dumb easy games that just give you quick small amounts of satisfaction. just like social media, its all to keep the masses dumbed down
@@rashaadevans4647 I mean hey, at least it's still very much skill based, especially with the unique jab and down systems that Mordhau lacks. It's just that Chiv 2 is objectively more entertaining because most players don't automatically go "welp, I'm most certainly fucked" the moment they find themselves in a 2v1.
cant get over how dogshit the animations look in chiv2, Mord looks better to casuals, but top tier mordhau looks worse when you start fighting people who know how to mega cheese anims.
Mordau was a nightmare for me when I first started. I tried hard to get better but for newer players, it's awful constantly going against veterans running around with mauls. Casuals cannot enjoy that game
@@crimsonstardrago9707 not true at all maybe ur just not good enough? i got the game a month ago im level 30 and can compete with level 200s, all you gotta learn is good feints, know when to actually block against enemy feints, learn drags and accels and ur good trust me
I remember being hyped about Mordhau and hoping they get the same type of maps and team objective like Chiv 1. That did not happen, I think that really killed the game in the end because the combat was way better.
As a non-competetive player, I enjoy mordhau and chiv 2 about as much and I wasn't sure why because chiv 2 is much better when it comes to stuff that matters for casual gameplay. After thinking about it for a while I'm pretty sure it boils down to 2 things: 1) When chivalry 2 initially came out I thought the combat would feel clunky and noticeably less satisfying than mordhau from what I saw in videos. Although after trying it out, when smacking people in a typical fashion the hits felt as satisfying as mordhau and the innacuracies weren't felt. Since that's what you do like 80% of the time, chiv 2 is like a very consistent 4/5 in terms of gameplay. So then I thought "alright, what's the point of all this precision that mordhau has if I'm not playing competetive and the smacking feels just as satisfying?" But that wasn't the full picture - the problem is that mordhau has higher highs for me. That's because in these moments of flow where you're doing some crazy shit to survive a 1v3, matrixing swings, pulling your weapon above an ally's head and bringing it down on the enemy next to him - that's when the precision that mordhau allows shines, cause you feel so great after managing to pull it off. The fact that there is no timed block might also play a big role in that, not only because it's more intense and satisfying to block 3 hits in a row with a timed block, but also because the timed block in chiv 2 promotes - or at least makes most casual players default to - a more defensive playstyle, which means that you're less likely to catch someone not blocking by surprize and they interrupt your epic keanu chungus jon snow the witcher 3 reddit combo sequence. 2) This one is very subjective and won't be the case for most people but either way I got hooked on mordhau's customization - I wouldn't be surprized if almost half my playtime was in the armory. I got interested in medieval aesthetics because of this game. And as a bonus, it's kinda opposite for me when it comes to humor than what you said in the video. Because mordhau is more realistic and sort of less aware of the... "funny potential" the emotes give, it ends up being more funny than chiv where it feels intentional and sort of streamlined, almost like it's trying a bit too hard. And personally I just like the voices more. I wish there was a game that combined the strengths of both - that would prob be my favourite game ever made. Between playing mordhau and battlefield I basically forgot that such a thing as genuinely good map design exists almost like I had stockholm syndrome lmao and it felt great to experience in chiv 2. While mordhau does lean quite a lot into the gimmicky parts with being able to throw some weapons etc, I used to imagine so many more additions that would have been fun to fuck around with and chiv 2 perfectly showed that (polearm charging is SO FUCKING FUN man). Throw in mordhau's combat and customization and just keep adding maps, voices and cosmetics and I would be playing that game until my deathbed or until Gabe Newell comes up with some vr neuarlink full body experience console that pumps dopamine directly into my brain and makes me feel like I'm doing meth while playing.
@@jezusee I feel like Mordhau is mainly funny from the sheer creativity of the players, e.g. lute bot, various exploits, VK trolling in tourneys, Frankenstein face mod - Mordhau did (unintentionally) offer a lot of tools for funny moments to happen but also relies heavily on the playerbase to create them. Since realising that Mordhau has benefited from such creative moments the devs are now leaning on it too heavily with dwarf perks, goofy squat animation and pavise surfing dedicated emote
I love Mordhau and I just want the game to be more beautiful and better. We need both chiv 2 devs and mord devs to get together and make a glorious game!
as long as crush isn't involved... they need to take another look at the genre and control drags/accels better. Until the genre gets it's shit together on the average player relying on that as opposed to actual skill based combat... it's destined to fail.
I played chiv 2 for an hour and refunded it. I found mordhau way more fun even though the game is dead and run by exploiters. I was one of the 30 people who liked the old horde and was devastated when they changed it. This was almost the final nail in the coffin for me but I keep playing it because… just because.
Exact same story for me lol especially the 'just because.' Tons of great memories to look back on at least, I guess we are trying to relive some of them.
@@FreakMeat74 I think it is because getting better at the game was so fun. I feel myself almost chasing the high. Another reason is I just find nothing as addicting as mordhau, nothing will fulfill this man. And it isn't for lack of trying either.
@@Stouty There are tons of female character options in BOTH games so your own argument of difference in female playerbase % between the two games doesn't mean its because of a lack of diversity for female choice, if that's what you're getting at. Also CS is a more grounded military themed game compared to valorants cartoony aspect and cast of characters, so if anything you're just aiding OP's argument even further in why he's right about girls simply not being attracted to particular types of genres. Additionally CS and Valorant are some of the most popular games for streaming so of course there's going to be a disparity compared to an unknown game like chiv 2, but again it's not just because muh 'i can't play as a female knight' sake. You're acting very aloof in your reasoning so its no wonder nobody can tell what you're getting at with your trivial cs/val argument, but in any case you're wrong.
@@sandstormxxxhellfire1386 Except CS and Valorant are the same genre. CS only recently added female skins that YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR. Crazy how you forgot that part :')
@@Stouty bro completely sidesteps everything he said just to note duhh "same genre" as if that matters lmfao you're a fucking loooo0oser but that was obvious when you thought 50% of the population automatically must equal 50% of an extra potential playerbase 🙃
@@manny4571 Uhh no, pointing out that Valorant and CS are the same genre shatters his central claim that "girls simply not being attracted to particular types of genres". They're the same genre. You BOTH got DESTROYED 🫵🤣
I played Chiv 2 during beta, so it could be different now, but it was a game I really wanted to love. I loved the maps, objectives, and visuals, but the core combat just felt messy to me. After playing it for a while, it made me want to just go play Mordhau because Chiv 2's gameplay just felt really clunky in comparison. The problem is, Mordhau feels super dead in comparison. I really wish we could get a game that's a good in between, Mordhau's combat with Chiv's map design and world building. I might give Chiv 2 another go once it's on steam but I don't think much changed since the beta build I played since it was pretty close to release at that point.
Try out the arena mode where you can get to grips with the combat in 1v1s, once it clicks it becomes a lot more enjoyable (don't go the dedicated duelyards unless you want to get scarred for life)
@@Stouty The dedicated duelyards are alright if you want quick fire stuff, you've just got to pay attention to the names and their K/D to figure out who you want to fight. Surprisingly enough, there's a lot more newer players milling about in the duelyards who often keep to their own groups.
@@Stouty As a small update: played chiv 2 all day yesterday, feels a lot better than when I last played it, tbh I think I prefer it over Mordhau at this point. It's by no means perfect and there are things I think Mord does better, but you were right that it becomes enjoyable once it clicks and it motivates me to get good as Mordhau did.
I wished I shared the same sentiment with Chiv, but I really don't. Most of that comes down to the combat: - There a REASON why Mordhau got rid of no-stam chambers, but Chiv 2 apparently didn't get the memo. Having both sides fence each other endlessly is both uncompelling and lacks any sense of tension. It is EXTREMELY safe to just spam Slash over and over and over again, and this goes triple for any fast weapon. On top of that, they don't make use of alt swings, so it's literally just three possible chamber angles, as opposed to Mordhau's seven. The window for counters is huge too, so you have at least a one-in-three blind chance to counter just by luck. - It takes WAAAY too long to guardbreak someone whose playing in a very predictable manner. With counters being stamina neutral for almost every weapon, ripostes refunding stamina back to an attacker and no stamina penalties on miss, fights with clearly inferior opponents are obnoxiously dangerous and time consuming. Kicks have been shown to be very easy to work around, as the millisecond the server detects someone doing anything other guarding, your kick's punish is immediately nullified. - The footwork/movement is horrible. I kept wondering why people always seem to only use Slash, and i eventually figured out why: You need a 3,000dpi mouse to hit anyone whose strafing with a Stab or Overhead. In fact, you can circle strafe people, like Doom monsters. I've been victim to braindead players who orbit me, spamming dodges and Slashes, usually hitting me around my parrybox. Can't beat them with feints, can't do anything to slow them down, and baiting whiffs only stalls the fight longer. Never thought I would see For Honor dodge-heavy attacks in a Chivalry-style combat system. - I think someone fucked up the tracing on Overheads. Stabs "mostly" feel fine, but so many Overheads whiff for no reason. Slash on the other hand, hits almost everything. Looking at the animation, I can see the problem: The model is swinging the weapon LITERALLY over his head, and NOT his shoulders like it should be. - Combine all of this together with big team fights, and almost no one gets disarmed, but rather killed through their guard, whether by 1vX or by scraping things around the parrybox. So much for holding your block. - The weapons just have no character. The convoluted system of damage types and resistances makes everything inconsistent. Polehammers don't hit much harder than halberds, nor falchions much different to maces. The spear feels less powerful, simply because people can dance around it all day. On the flip side, the Highlander Sword is ridiculous, having massive Slashes with big stamina drain on block, and yet it's still fast enough to keep pace with the Longsword on riposte. I know Mordhau has it's faults, but the community needs to come together to deliver fixes and experiment with the combat. Because Chiv 2 just ain't it, chief.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, however in a TO server there's plenty of methods to dispatch the average player to the point where these criticisms are largely irrelevant
@@Stouty I mentioned that in my comment. Basically, if your team is garbage, there's very little you can do outside of arrows to confirm damage. In Mordhau, you can still rack up plenty of kills by exploiting lulls in the crowd surges, or by finding the cracks in a crowd's defense. None of that is possible here, and it's not always going to be XvX all the time; 1v1s can still break out. You NEED good, unreactable combat as a base, and it's not here. Even the RP side isn't very good. I spent about as much time going back for bandages to heal as I did fighting. Despite those lapses in combat, I never caught anyone trying to interact with anything, or playing music, or even combat emoting. Despite having way more interactive set pieces, people just don't engage with it. Considering how the PC browser servers are completely dead, besides one or two duel servers with a handful of people, I struggle to see how Steam will boost it's longevity. No idea why they decoupled Quick-match from the browser, or why there's literally nobody on those servers. But I suspect that the player base can't really be that much bigger than Mordhau's, even taking console into account. Many would rather play For Honor, or something else. I uninstalled a while ago. I'm not holding my breath that they'll redo major parts of the combat. All the while, I'll be waiting to see what happens with Mordhau mods.
@@Darkstar198 i think a lot of your issues stem from playing on pc. Nearly every match im in on ps4 youll have someone running around with a harp just having fun. In fact i like to use "diplomacy" to distract the enemy team and start a dance party. Its funny how often the enemy will stop attacking when they see im just playing my harp and join me. Much of the combat in chivalry comes down to variation in attack, people cheesing the slash get cut down by an overhead or stab. Parry with a slash, then feint into an overhead or stab and bam youve won the clash. If they adapt then spam slash to draw them back in or maintaint your variations.
@@morpheusbutasasquirtle4431 The "variance" in the combat isn't enough on it's own. I feint (morph) a LOT to try and stop people from just LMB spam, but it either doesn't work or isn't fast enough to kill before more people show up to fight. Follow-ups, especially Overheads, usually miss because of the aforementioned fuckery in range and angling. If you miss, thier spam will always hit you, because you "gambled" into them. Ripostes gives you some stam back, and can be used effectively to stall fights if you can't counter for whatever reason. Often, most of my damage came from people hitting around my parrybox, or clipping me at the very end of release (graze, with no damage reduction). Or from being unable to catch every attack in my limited parrybox during 1vX. Kicks are too easy to punish, and don't really work as intended. Jabs get wonky too, and are easily blocked without stam loss. This is before we even talked about netcode.
I honestly love Chivalry 2, I do admit that the gameplay can be a bit clunky but I enjoy it. Also I hate how people say that the animations on chivalry 2 look awful, the animations are fine, they may not look the best or are realistic enough but their ok.
*dwarves, giants, goblins, several different centuries of weaponry and armour mashed together...* I wish there was a melee slasher that was realistic and historical, maybe one day...
mordhau= brutal! it doesnt matter what level you are! its about experience , i have seen one guy take on 6 guys and kills them all! chivalry 2= more friendly to new players.
Is it just me or Chiv 2 animations and combat feels so weird? I mean look at the footage, it looks like they have molasses under their armor and as if they struggle to move and do exaggerated movements as a result. The swings feel so off. I played chiv 1 in the past and when i tried chiv 2 after 700 hours on Mordhau i couldn't get behind it at all. Even though the game itself was kind of fun the combat and general feel put me off
I haven't played Mordhau but Chiv 2 does feel slow, which is realistic. People aren't going to be moving quick in plate armor or carrying a giant hammer. But realistic isn't always fun for everyone. Depends on your preference and expectations. I like the feel of Chiv 2 because the weapons have "weight" to them and the pace of combat feels strategic instead of just being able to brute force and button mash the way to victory.
@@vincer7824 No I don't mean slow as in realistic. It feels so cartoonish. Look closely at the animation of the body when two people are fighting. It's like theyre marionettes and they're being pulled around, resulting in strange movement. Look at mordhau fights, the movement looks much better and fluid. And they move like actual people. Not saying mordhau is better just saying my reason for disliking chivalry.
As a casual player, think that both Modhau and the Chivalry 2 is a really good "medieval games", but the main and more important word in this pair of words for Mordhau is "Medieval" and for Chivalry is "Game". Mordhau really got me with this Stockholm syndrome styled gameplay, when it is SO hard to play on the same level as the most veterans or just skilled fraggers are playing that the satisfaction from victory is actually big enough to keep playing and improving, even through the countless losses. Mordhau doesnt equalise players in anything, if you suck - nothing will try to help you, only your own improvement will make you better. I'm around 100 casual level in Mordhau and i still consider myself only veeeery slightly above the complete noob level. It really feels like winning a war when you win the tough battle, and the bad map design actually makes this feeling stand out even more, because when you have to get the powder barrels on the Camp to the towers to blow them up it is all up to players, nothing else will help you, it's just shitty little you, your shitty little squad of team players and the entire enemy's army, that's how it feels. And basically, for me entire Mordhau feels like that, and defeating this inhumanly looking army of enemies or even just completing the objectives feels very... "agains all odds", that's how it feels. I didn't try Chivalry 2 yet, but what i have seen and heard tells me that Chivalry is much more of a "Game" than a Mordhau. I think the game design shouldn't be as harsh as it is in Mordhau, but the Chivalry just looks like something uderwelmingly easy, at least from the side and in the eyes of the Mordhau player. I will definately try Chivalry out as soon as i will get money for it, but for now i really like the Mordhau's "victory against all odds" gameplay style more than anything more balanced and "game-ish". When you get your victory on schedule the victory is not as satisfying, when you expect the miracle to happen, it's not the miracle anymore, it's routine. Also i usually pay a lot of attention to animations, and Chivalry 2 weapon swings animations look so dead and blank in comparison with Mordhau's weapons animations. It is just satisfying to swing the sword or axe in Mordhau, and i am not sure if it is as satisfying on Chivalry. The best thing that can happen to both games is if they would blend together into something in between. That would be ideal medieval game.
I've played some Chiv 2 and lots of Chiv 1, and I have to say that, no, it's not easy. It simply cannot be easy because you are playing against other people (if they are bad, you win; if they are better than you, you loose). No, it's not easy, but it is forgiving and a lot more casual feeling. Let me explain: I've had duels against legendary veteran Chiv 1 and Mordhau veterans in Chiv 2 and killed them a couple times, and I've had duels with complete beginners that have killed me a couple times, even if I ended up winning. If you are good, you are more likely to win, but the difference between good players and bad players is not as abysmal as in the older games. It could be because players have more tools to get out of sticky situations or to surprise the opponent, because there isn't a head multiplier in melee so fights take more hits to finish, it might be that you can hold your block instead of having to perfectly parry every attack or that the game is so fun that one can get carried away and fumble a duel or two. In Chiv 1, as a casual LvL 40-something, I am nearly un-killable to players bellow LvL 20, but, at the same time, as hard as I try, I cannot reliably kill players that are on LvL 60, not even in 2v1s. I think this is OK. I find myself complimenting players after fights for their prowess, only to find out they had just downloaded the game two weeks ago. It's such a warm feeling, to see a chiv-like game where noobs can do well and develop their skills without being spooked by the extremely low skill floor. Also, where Chiv 1 is a lot about muscle memory and perfecting a set number of techniques, Chiv 2 is a lot more about knowing your enemy and braingames. I haven't played Mordhau, but I believe it too is about making the right moves at the right time, rather than perfecting them. Overall, Chivalry 2 is fun and inclusive. In addition, people in this game are very polite, and there are virtually no gatekeepers, because they all stayed in Chiv 1 and Mordhau. So far, I've only witnessed just three assholes (like, guys actually insulting other players or calling them slurs + playing in a very scummy fashion) but I believe those are all veterans trying to "farm noobs" and crush the community because they hate change and themselves. But, yeah, the game's good.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 I have tried Chiv 2 myself, and i have to agree with everything you said. The game is amazing, it is much more of a game in a first place than a Mordhau, which slightly feels like a demo version to test the combat system after Chiv 2. The people in game are amazing, in comparesing with the Mordhau's community, which is filled with a clowns and tryhards, Chiv 2 community looks very polite and attracting, even the hatred for archers is actually fair and deserved, because they are very op in Chiv, even i hate them and i mained crossbow in Mordhau for a long time. In general the Chivalry is just more acceptinge and less punishing than Mordhau, at least for now. The combat systems are amazing in both games, both Mordhau and Chiv 2 rely on the braingames to outsmart opponent and get past his defences, but in Mordhau you had much less moves to do, so you had to either be rather smart with them to fool the enemy or just use the animation abuse (drags, accels and other chivalry 1 legacy), which made fighting the veterans a big pain. In Chivalry 2 you have much bigger variety of moves and tricks to fool the opponent, and this prevents the veterans to be as horrifying as they are in mordhau, but also makes the game feel a little too... synthetic, i didn't feel as much of a victory vibe after defeating the lvl 60 player in Chiv 2, because i only used the right moves in right time, when in Mordhau the same fight with the same people can feel much more intense, because of much more intense brainfighting between you and another skilled player, and you just expect something cheeky to be performen by the opponent, fights just give more adrenaline in Mordhau for me, especially the team fights. But i still love how Tornbanner made the combat system, it is much closer to the real sword fight than a Mordhau's system, even with all the simplifyings Chiv 2 made. I wish these 2 combat systems blended together, that would be gorgeous. The only 2 things that still keep me in Mordhau and that i don't like in Chiv 2 is the animations and the feeling of "victory against all odds" i told about in my comment. And if the latter is just comes after Mordhaus much more chaotic fights, the former is Chiv's big problem in my opinion. Animations in Chiv 2 are rather horrible, at least they are much, much worse than in Mordhau. I don't know why, but in Chiv all weapons swings, all movement and some other things feels kind of like entire body of player made of logs or wooden planks. I don't know how to describe it properly in english, but in Mordhau they are much more smooth and look much more real. In general it is just more satisfying to swing with the weapons in Mordhau than in Chivalry 2, i think Tornbanner should improve animations, if it is possible. Overall, Chivalry 2 manged to do very well exactly all the things Mordhaus didn't do well, but Chivalry didn't do well all the things Mordhau actually did very well. If only somebody would combine these 2 games, it would be the perfect first person slasher. Chiv is more fun than Mordhau for now, at least in some aspects, and Mordhau is more of the adrenaline factory, at least for me, and both things are amazing at the right time.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 Also for some reason, in Chivalry 2 Mason Order always get the best players, i dont know why, but in Mordhau red team also did get all the good players over the blue before Triternion made that you can't switch teams manually anymore, so it seems that all the veterans are attracted by the red and black colours. I love how Agathian team looks and i love the blue team in mordhau because of it's positions on most of the maps, so sometimes it really feels like in Chivalry, like it was in Mordhau not so long ago, teams are not balanced very well. At least there are always more people with higher levels in Mason than in Agatha in Chiv 2, which made many matches for me a little harder than they should have been.
@@jumpinghunter9152 The thing that annoys me about Chiv 2's animations are so much the actual animations, but how the player's clothes react to movement. In Chiv 1 clothes are completely solid, but in Chiv 2, they sort of flail all over the place and are very distracting at times. Also, sometimes it's hard to tell what class you are fighting, since many weapons are shared between two or three classes, all players can have any face or voice they want, plus the Tenosians only have two helmets and armor sets for four different classes, plus nobody bothers customizing thier Tenosians so absolutely everybody has that "Soldier" head and default hairstyle, which only confuses me further. Also, I would pay to have the option to buy custom heraldry, just like you have in Chiv 1, and I assume Mordhau. Not that the heraldry we have is bad, but it's a layer of customisation I think everyone appreciated and now misses, specially for FFA, since you could pick absolutely any colour combination you like, but now that's not the case anymore. But, as I said, I haven't played Mordhau, so I can't comment on the feel of the animations in that game, though I can say with confidence that characters are much, much less rigid that they are in Chiv 1.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 In Mordhau you only have to buy weapons and armour skins (and 4 voices as a DLC for real money for some reason), weapons are extremely cheap, you can win 1 round of team gamemode or lose 1 or 2 and you already will have enough money for at least 1 or 2 new weapons, but armour are rather expensive, and to get some specific set of armor you have to play a little longer and bank up some money. Mordhau doesn't have premium money like crowns in Chiv 2 though, so you can't buy something expensive as soon as you want it. The same goes for weapon reskins, but again, they are usually cheap enough to buy them after a few matches. Everything else, like emblems, colours, faces, standart voices and other things are free. Although you don't have any heraldry in the first place, you have the emblem, which is the symbol of some kind you will have on your cloth if it have premade place for it, and some armour and weapons have different patterns and colour, this helps with customisation a lot but it does look less medievaly believably than heraldry in Chiv. Some things, like weapons, also have to be unlocked by reaching sertain levels, but most weapons are like, restricted to level 5 or something like that, but level restrictions are much more symbolic and less annoying than they are in Chiv 2. If you collected enouhg money for something you probably will be able to buy it. Also Mordhau comes with huge discount of 75% due to the second part of eastern invasion update now, so you probably should give it a try, it will worth it.
Great video, Chiv 2 really does capture that awe of large battles like the ones from movies like braveheart. Be warned however, with this the mordhau cultist will be all over you for being a 'traitor'
500 hours on Mordhau and am finally losing it. Hopefully Chivalry 2 delivers when it comes to Steam. Thanks for the analysis Stouty, all I want to play is Invasion and the map design on Chivalry 2 has me excited
Overwatch has more female players than other FPS games because it allows support roles, team-work etc. and has a cute art-style with distinct characters and interactivity complete with outfits. Women just aren't interested in a gritty melee slasher, or a tactical shooter. One can try to ignore reality, or one can accept that men and women like different things and get on with it. CoD's player base is probably at least 95% male, and is a financial and player-retentive success, as are many other FPS games. Anyone who thinks that if you just add female characters to a massively autistic game genre the women will want to play their massively autistic game, then they are massively autistic themselves. Also, Chiv 2 and M&B have female characters, how many women play these games? That's what I thought.
Look into the "Scully effect" - of course it would have an impact, perhaps not right away or a massive one. Also other fps games have support roles yet Overwatch still has a greater percentage of women
@@Stouty the Scully effect sounds like some pseudoscience mumbo jumbo a sociology major came up with. Yes, other FPS games have support roles, let's not ignore all the other aspects of Overwatch I mentioned. Also there is a very big difference to having characters with support roles in a game like Rainbow Six that still requires you to be fundamentally good at FPS games, and Overwatch which allows you to play a dedicated support role in which you can still do OK even if you're braindead at FPS games. I've friend's who are terrible at most games, especially FPS games, who play the shit out of Overwatch. They enjoy it because they can do OK in it and the game is built around the lowest common denominator being made feel like they helped. Having said all that, the amount of women in the Overwatch eSports scene is still small. Women just aren't interested in melee slashers unless you make some cutesy Overwatch clone. It's a waste of time and energy. Of all the women I know, I know two that even play games, and the games they play are the Sims and RuneScape. Of all the blokes I know, most at least play games every now and then casually. If you think women are interested in such games then I can't help you. Female characters should be only be added to such games if it fits the game and adds value, not out of virtue signaling or a naive attempt at getting more female players that will amount to a less than 1% rise in players.
@@LaughingMan44 Which game do you think has more women playing, valorant or csgo? Keep in mind the role system is basically irrelevant as you need to be able to hit heads in both to have impact
@@LaughingMan44 "Female characters should be only be added to such games if it fits the game and adds value, not out of virtue signaling or a naive attempt at getting more female players that will amount to a less than 1% rise in players." is a contender for worst take in 2022 not only is that blatantly wrong, but a contradictory statement. what else is value if not either; getting more people interested in a game; or allowing more people to express themselves? you seem so completely adverse to the inclusion of female characters to a degree that you almost seem misogynistic, making me doubt you know any women at all besides your mother, but that's besides the point, as being adverse to something implies there is a negative to adding it, and i don't see one in this situation. is it really that offensive to know that out there, someone besides you, feels their character in a game represents them, or their feelings about themselves? or even if it isn't, that their avatar in a game is something other than how they look in real life? male people can still use female characters, and vice versa, and in fact i wouldn't be surprised if there was an even split in genders in game despite an overwhelming male majority of players out of game. i will afford you the one point that it may not be historical, but to hyperfocus on that when you have shitty animations, silly humorous voicelines, cosmetic inaccuracies, and weapons being drawn out of thin air, is quite weird. i agree that adding extreme inclusivity to a certain point may detract from historical accuracy, but is another gender that extreme? are female mercenaries really significantly inaccurate enough to warrant gating half the population from your game? "It's a waste of time and energy." what an inane point. why have a nice historically accurate battleground when you can have a white box? why have character models and detailed swords when you can have colourless hitboxes held by disembodied arms and legs? if you can't justify even one new model as a waste of expenses, how can you justify any cosmetic addition or development to the game? from a gameplay standpoint, it's not like updates to mechanics will be delayed by new models, the developers for code probably aren't making the models, and have no reason to greatly alter hitboxes or even change them at all if the models look similar enough. i'm sorry, but no, having thinner waists doesn't mean they will be harder to hit, and having breasts won't make them easier to hit either. furthermore, it's a hardly a waste if people use them. an example is the dwarf perk in mordhau. it's nearly completely useless in combat, even detrimental, yet people still use it to roleplay or as cheese. it's maybe a waste of resources to a subhuman ranked spammer who only cares about the total efficiency of a game that, let's be honest, will only ever have a small competitive scene, but you aren't the only person person playing the game, so generalising your experience and vision of a game to a MUCH wider community is quite arrogant the idea that women are uninterested in fps or melee slashers because of the incredibly biased esports scene is equally irrelevant and an over generalisation. esports are incredibly exclusive, you have to become extremely good at a game and be very dedicated to reach the peak of a game, let alone participate in competitions for money, so not many people are interested in the timesink required. this makes them a pretty unfair comparison to average level play and even worse is that mordhau is completely anti competitive as seen by the mistreatment of VK so a comparison is pointless anyway just because the scene is practically male exclusive, doesn't mean that women aren't interested. if anything the lack of women in esports is evidence to the contrary as they are more likely to be alienated and isolated even if skilled, and if they aren't the ridicule is even worse. an example is league of legend's only female team, whom were absolutely terrible at the game, and were naturally destroyed by the male teams that actually played the game. this was arbitrarily taken as "evidence" that women are bad at the game and shouldn't participate in esports, which is pretty unfair as they were doomed to fail from the getgo, and despite that one team being terrible, there are plenty of female players who are incredibly good at the game, and/or popular on platforms like twitch or youtube. with regards to the fps or melee slasher genre, saying that the inclusion of female characters is offset by the inclusion of roles is pretty biased, as csgo does not have an identical clone with female characters yet, and since overwatch is too different inherently to compare we can't know for sure. i feel valorant however is similar enough to compare the presence or lack thereof, of female avatars. valorant has a staggering 30-40% female playerbase, whereas csgo has 24% at a push. can you really say that just because the characters have abilities and to some degree there is a role system that women flock to the game? do you think that csgo would be more popular with this audience if there were abilities and no female characters? i cant find stats on chivalry 2's female playerbase percentage yet, i can't generalise the fps numbers to the melee slasher genre since they are too different, and since the female avatars in chiv 2 are atrocious, i can't say that with a 100% certainty that adding female avatars will resurrect the genre or make female players flock to the game, but i think it's fair to say that NOT adding them would be a mistake, if you think that's not true, i can't help you
@@Stouty Barely any women play Valorant either, and those that do were probably lured in by the fact that did everything they could to make it look like Overwatch. You're grasping at straws. I'm sorry, you'll never have a melee-slash playing waifu.
Chivalry 2 launching on steam will probably be the final killing blow to Mordhau which makes me sad because of all the good memories I had both in casual and competitive matches.
Chiv 2 is more fun because of the map variety,cool map and the invasion. Those things are the things that made me fell in love with chiv 1. I think combat in mordhau is more complex and skilled but chiv 2 is more fun. Also stouty i've been watching ur videos since early mordhau. Much love
As a dumb pleb who had fun in Chiv 1, did okay in some matches, had fun all the time: When I followed the hype wagon and went over to Mordhau, I can't explain what went wrong, but I rarely had fun. I played Chiv by myself, and things just clicked and made sense after a while. I had those moments with randoms where we turned a match around, or at least got our shit together and gave it back. I went into Mordhau with good friends on the hype wagon, and it was nothing but frustrating, very few fun moments. I think, and this is coming from a casual, that the skill ceiling might have been blown out. I dunno, but Chiv 1 was good times, and Mord left me annoyed.
I like Mordhau more than chiv, but I think both are fun games. Mordhaus main issues stem from the garbage development time for patches. They'd succeed so much more as a game is they did small patches like every other well renown game instead of releasing one massive patch every 6 months to a year (or two). The first reason for slow dev time was their engine upgrades, but now they have known exploits in the game that they say they'll fix but they'll fix it with their next big patch. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and still play it, ranked is garbage because you have so many unreadable animations at higher ranks, but I still thoroughly enjoy Invasion and FL. And it's an unpopular opinion, but New horde is a hell of a lot better than old horde. Old horde would have you join in a game late with no money, die because you didn't have good armor, then watch the dude on top of the scoreboard making a train of enemies and slowly killing them over 5-10 minutes, respawn with a meager amount of gold, and attempt to run across the map to buy some decent weapon or armor that was hidden and hard to find. New horde still has issues but it's much more friendly to less experienced players or ones who joined late. But at least you can take out enemies without having to form a 50 person train and you can rez your noob teammates so they can actually enjoy the game.
to be honest back when mordhau released and i actually switched games i was extremely happy to maybe get a chiv experience without having to deal with people spinning around like beyblades. i was very pleasantly surprised that it did not even really feel like a chivalry game but rather its own thing because the actual gameplay was so responsive and smooth. then i met the first enemy player that just ran around naked with a pan and some rocks and kept doing emotes and i knew right away that mordhau was gonna be one of my favorite games. i liked that there was a whole list of seperate shouts and emotes because it felt like i had more freedom in my expressions towards other players and whenever i got the hang of the controlls and mechanics it really felt amazing fighting other players, i never had that feeling during my time with chivalry, because as you said it yourself here, the main aspect of that game and now apparently the new one is not smooth gameplay but well designed maps with well thought out objectives. now i am just wondering if it is really so easy to say that chiv 2 is the better game because of better maps, female characters and the humor not coming from just the players but also the main game. to me personally 2 out of these 3 things are irrelevant and the last isn't more important than the controlls feeling smooth. what i can say however is that your video made me strongly consider buying chiv 2 to give it a try and see if i like it more than mordhau also i am not going to proof read all that i hope the text is readable to anyone who even tries to
As someone who can very much relate to that and has played a significant amount of both games, I can definitely say for certain that Mordhau still has it's own charms and cool aspects which Chiv 2 lacks, but unfortunately it's a lot more unforgiving and, well, not quite as chaotic by comparison. It's a lot more personalized, sure, but Chiv 2 has the advantage in letting you pick up and throw almost anything you can think of (minus bear traps), and setting things up just right to where you actively see more people getting in real close to a chaotic groupVgroup fight than you would in Mordhau, as friendly fire is low and the blocking mechanic is less punishing. I dunno, there's just something about it that actively *feels* more like a real battlefield by comparison, if that makes sense. All helped by how there's not quite a feeling of "welp, I'm fucked" upon facing two guys at once as there was with Mordhau. But yea, 10/10, would sit in a wooden porta-potty and scream voicelines until the enemy team notices and chops down the bathroom walls to get at me again (no joke, you can just casually chill in those, and on benchs/seats. Why? Just for the hell of it, of course).
@@dontfret420id did try chiv 2 a little while later and unfortunately i did up not liking the way the controls felt so i haven't played since. i kept playing mordhau almost daily for most of the last year, but haven't played it either for about a month now. it is easy to get into though. the mechanics are new player friendly and easy to get the hang of so i would suggest you just try it yourself for 1 or 2 hours and see wether you are bothered by the animations or simplified combat. since you are a big fan of the way weapons are done in mordhau however i don't think you will like the fighting in chiv 2 either, but i can't know for certain of course.
it really is a shame what has Mordhau turned into, from not just lack of communication with the devs, but also map design and many many more, also it confuses me how there are mortars and 16th century armor and Landsknecht in the game, yet there's no gunpowder weaponry like handgonne, and that's another problem, that being the community being so overly sensitive to topics like the flail and ranged weapons and here's the worst part it's gonna be really rough for casuals and normal gamers to have a good time with Mordhau, especially online with tryhards, dwarves spamming the foppish laugh and naked guys with mauls and no armor at all because they "mastered" the art of dragging their weapon when swinging and so the casual gamers get discouraged and so think about leaving, and then the Mordhau players (including those who have no life, no offense), to ramble about Mordhau slowly losing players (as far as i know from googling and doing research) so yeah, Torn Banner made an absolute come back against Mordhau with Chivalry 2, and i can't wait for female models and flail weapons (also i wonder if they're gonna do the "deadliest warrior" thing like with Chivalry 1)
Chivalry 2 is almost everything I wanted out of the medieval combat game. I don't agree on Mordhau being better in that regard as that game's competitive aspect replies too heavily on unintuitive mechanics and absolutely dogshit animations, with people doing fast overhead swings while bent 90 degrees and twisting their arms as if they're trying to do a naruto run. Being good at 50/50 is a major part of Mordhau gameplay. Thank god Torn Banner abandoned that completely and centered the combat around actually intuitive AND consistent mechanics. It actually rewards good judgement, spacing and reactions over learning cheesy ass setups and guessing, it's closer to a fighting game in that regard. Outside of having ranked mode, the only things Mordhau actually did better are customizations and weapon variety, including different grips that impacted gameplay and cute little things like throwing a pommel at people.
uhh I wouldn't describe chiv 2 as consistent lol initiative is all over the place and suffers from severe mechanical bloat in comparison to Mordhau - both unfortunately suffer from jank anims at high level but yeah it does feel closer to a fighting game in some aspects (which may or may not be a good thing)
@@Stouty >I wouldn't describe chiv 2 as consistent lol initiative is all over the place The initiative isn't random, so it's consistent regardless. Compared to Mordhau it also doesn't have a multitude of variables like swing speed, janky angles, or armor and body multipliers to make the combat less consistent. It added dmg% bonuses against armored vs unarmored opponents but it's still not as big of a factor. >mechanical bloat in comparison to Mordhau Mechanical bloat such as what? Chiv doesn't have too many mechanics, and all of them feed into RPS gameplay without people having to rely on animation abuse like in Mordhau. > both unfortunately suffer from jank anims at high level Not even comparable, Chiv animations at their worst are still clearer than almost anything in Mordhau, which suffers from animation abuse even in basic lobbies. It's just how they chose to build the game. >but yeah it does feel closer to a fighting game in some aspects (which may or may not be a good thing) Why would it not be a good thing? Fighting games have figured out the fundamental systems that these types of games need to be built on. The best systems of both Mordhau and Chiv ARE heavily centered around fighting game fundamentals. The major difference though is that Chiv 2 chose to embrace those mechanics more closely with the universal jab mechanic and more consistent animations while Mordhau undermined the fundamentals with terrible hitbox and animation abuse. The end result is: Mordhau - a game that isn't competitive, ruins its presentation when played "right", but it very difficult to master Chiv 2 - a game that isn't competitive, leans into the medieval combat presentation, has more intuitive gameplay, but a much lower skill ceiling, since you can't spend hundreds of hours mastering broken animations or finding new unblockable exploits.
@@Stouty Specifically said that even at their worst, they're much better than the ones in Mord by a wide margin. You can "break" them in the broadest sense of the world, but the range of motion on them is so small that it's still readable and can't be abused. And as a side note, it feels like it's largely Mord players trying to pull some janky animation shit in Chiv despite it yielding basically no results due to the different block mechanics.
I'd love to play chivalry 2 once it hits steam and the playercount will be balanced. I always wanted to get into Mordhau and even bought it a year or two ago, wish I could play it a bit more before it died :(((
As a complete casual which started with Mordhau and was even pissed at Chiv 2 during their alpha gameplay which looked like graphic update for Chiv 1 I must say I was completely wrong. When I played the beta I was immiedatly sold on this game. Despite Mordhau having better combat system which looks sounds better from causual perspective is unreadable bullshit since those exchanges doesnt play just like in their promotional stuff with fast accels. Mostly the high skill player will run at you do some carpet drag that will lob off your head and teabag you. Objectives are complete joke in Mordhau since maps doesnt support the modes they are large unninspired and objectives doesnt make any sense from warfare perspective (burning camps from campires in the said camp in Taiga for example). Chiv 2 have more character, announcer and proper factions, different style of weapons, armour, voices and voice lines. Even though TB have broke the game after launch several times (replication glitch, mm killing the lobbies etc.) their game still is superior and I havent touch Mordhau in long time and I think I will never come back. The game doesnt have identity it tries to cater to everyone but in the end its for no one.
Honestly as a console player I have to admit that chivalry 2 should definitely have ranked duels, im a level 231 and trust me the skill ceiling in chivalry 2 can be extremely high. One thing you also never really talked about is how chivalry 2 gives the player more options in combat due to this its really insane how complicated high level combat can be sometimes especially if you look at some of Trix's videos. I don't think you give the combat enough credit where its due
Disagree, Chiv 2 combat is jank along with the movement animations. It is not really that deep compared to Mordhau. It is just that because of the held block, make kicks, charges, and jabs a bit OP that cannot always be countered and allows free hits. Swing manipulation has been totally nerfed depending on the class where some turn caps are very restricted like OH while other classes seem to easily spin to win. Lets not even get into the continued lack of real archer balance even after the supposed nerf. There is no cftp, let alone stacking attack vectors from any direction, you just eat the hit because combat speed was slowed way down to help with hit detection and accuracy which is still an issue.
@@sirretsnom3329 The fact that you claim jabs and kicks are op already shows that you don't understand the high level gameplay where you rarely even see the pro players get kicked. On top of that there are HEAVY attacks literally just slowed animations of normal swings that can still be dragged. of course the dragging would be reduced other wise thats all high level combat would be which is exactly mordhau. Though I do agree about hit detection and accuracy those are issues that need some fixes.
@@alpatr0s596 I never said the combat is "more in depth" it just gives players more options especially newer ones. Mordhau has much more of a competitive player base
mordhaus fate is so similar to that of chivalry 1, its really jarring how they could let these mistakes happen. same shit, different story. and triternion seems to have made the decision to not make any big gameplay changes anymore as they seem to think they have a solid foundation and just lack polish. when actually, its the exact other way around. its such a pity, the early dev blogs were really promising. if i could mix'n'match my own slasher game, i would pick: - content and graphics from chivalry 2 - character customization from mordhau, but with class limitations from chivalry - chivalry 1 combat, just without the backswinging. this one really hurts to admit, because i really believed mordhaus combat would be a definite improvement.
i don't think including women is going to magically make women play the game. most women don't play these kinds of games, period. the percentage of women in even popular games is still relatively low. won't hurt, though.
Bro the graphics of mordhau is actual ass. Chiv 2 clears Mordhau in almost every aspect, one thing I will say is that Mordhau is less clunky than Chiv 2 and has better customisation. But that’s it, Chivraly 2 feels like something out of a movie, Mordhau feels like ur playing a PC game from 2012. At least on console that’s how it is
I mean, I have poured over 1500 hours into mordhau so I think I like the genre, and even if I do find the chiv 2 combat a bit clunky, I still think I will pick it up on steam when it releases.
Never has a game made me feel like i wasted my life more than mordhau. Sometimes i look at my playtime and wonder what i could have done with those thousands of hours instead. Its a shame that it had so much potential, but was completely mismanaged from the start.
I was planning to buy mordhau after having played chiv2 for 40 hours and loving it but wanting something more in depth. Is it not worth it? Should I avoid it?
@@Zedzilliot dont be discouraged. If you aren’t easily frustrated by losing and dying in games, Mordhau will be fine. You don’t have to be good at the game to have fun. Anytime I play Mordhau, I find myself laughing my ass off. For me, it’s all good fun. I don’t know about other people, though.
Imo as someone who started on mordhau but now mains chiv 2, chiv 2 is just so much better simply because of the fun factor. Mordhau has this skill ceiling aka abusing glitched movement thats not supposed to be in the game and isn’t intended to be the meta but it is. It makes it impossible to kill a high ranked player as a newby. At least in chiv 2 the combat is more intuitive that you can quickly pick up on patterns and possibly get a lucky kill on a very high ranked player. Idk its just more accessible and thats what this genre desperately needs.
I love mordhau invasion, but the objectives are so poorly made. I don't understand why they don't take any player feedback in simple changes that can have a huge positive effect on the game play.
4:14 NO! THE HOLY CRUSADE IT'S A THING FOR MEN. Females will destroy the immersion. its a videogame yes, but does that mean that a game shouldnt have a "realistic" setting anymore? Do i complain if i play a videogame set in the feudal japan and i cant play as a Spaniard? No because its accurate, i like it more.
I really want to prefer chiv over mordhau but I cannot handle how clunky chiv feels to me. Mordhau just needs to do a few things and I think it could be real competition again. For example overhaul 3v3, one idea I've had is a map where all 6 people are split into 3 1v1 rooms to start that slowly open to to everyone else's fight. That may not be the best idea but I just want something that makes 3v3 more dynamic as I feel with given love it could be the best game mode to be in between casual and competitive
Yoooo Crossroads is fun as hell. On Invasion not so much but otherwise this map is one of the coolest and most versatile. There are like entire ecosystems around that tree and/or the tower. Flavored with lots of horses and the best rockthrowing positions in the game.
@@Stouty You do know that there are female players right? as not as many but still there is a few, like I remember being in regiments for Mount Blade warband: Napoleonic wars (DLC) and on teamspeak there were 1 or 2 girls that were in some regiments. and same with Chiv 2
I will argue against the idea that a games popularity depends on including genders. Most of us enjoy chiv and mord for the realism and I just have to say that a female knight while not impossible it is definitely not realistic or even slightly probable. That being said it doesn't matter if half the population is female the majority of females do not prefer the things men do just as the majority of males do not prefer the things women do. The target audience, the most popular demographic is male for these types of video games so they should focus their marketing towards men. It's not a big deal but I wouldn't say including gender variety in a game is going to matter.
@@Stouty yet csgo constantly has an active player base no matter what, sure it's not booming but it has periods where it will spike. Also realism it's kind of a plus for certain players who like it. I think games like valorant are fine yet they always start big and fizzle out in the end it's a trend I notice alot. Valorant has a very cartoonish style of game it attracts a wide variety of people young and old but in the long run they always seem to drop off. Games like overwatch, fortnite, apex, etc feel fine when gender specified characters are included because it lacks the realism and falls in line more with the cartoonish category. Not saying women in chiv/mord is a big deal for me but I can see why certain players would be mildly upset. Chiv/mord (chiv mostly) have a dedicated player base, that is their target audience and they should focus on them rather than set ambitions to become a largely globally played game because when that happens fans and the community feel like they start to lose something special, feels like plandering to a large audience for money and when that happens (going mainstream) you gain alot of unwanted attention from outside groups. Hope that makes sense.
@@Stouty Here is a summary example I'll give. Imagine why you enjoy playing csgo it's got a simplistic combat system, it's very straight forward and has a realistic theme. Now imagine if they were to start pandering to get a larger audience, they add jetpacks, cloaking devices, flashy laser weapons, custom skins like clown suits and t-rexes. Just to top it off for a worse case scenario they start adding lgbt stuff to the game aswell. The dedicated player base would be rightfully upset as that is a big change to their community. The point is once you start aiming to be a globally popular game you start to create a beacon for alot of unwanted attention it sort of breaks the community built around the game. Since their will be overly popular games that hit the global market they all hit big but eventually start to die at some point. Something eventually will take the place of valorant and that something will be replaced aswell. Chivalry I think will always maintain a consistent community.
Still waiting for it to be on steam, nowadays I have 0 urge to go competitive anymore (don't think I'll ever participate in tournaments again). Especially with long work hours all I wanna do nowadays is just grab a beer and have a giggle with the lads. Gave me some good insights and will buy this on steam, cheers pal.
But listen.. The reason i liked chivalry was the toxic and unforgiving community.. When you died you were being called names at the same time! It was very authentic ecperience in a way!
5:19 yes, a lot of the things that made chiv 1 truly great were basically accidental and impossible to disentangle from the things that were fundamentally broken about it. there will never be another game like chiv 1 unfortunately
youre absolutely right. The question of the First Person Slasher genre boils down to who will make a game with as much accicentall fun mechanics as Chiv 1 imho
Stouty amazing video. The first time I ever saw one of your videos I thought you sounded and looked very similar to Harry Potter. Now every time I watch one of your videos I like to imagine it's Harry giving me these gaming tips.
Chiv should look into fixing their fucked up animations. They STILL haven't fixed the walking animation. So glad I refunded the game. Everyone still looks like they're sliding around on the ground. I mean just look at it.
coming from someone who went back to chiv 1 after mordhau for competitive TO, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed chiv 2, a dedicated pub game. Pub in chiv 2 when there's no one on, pug in chiv 1 when the boys are on. Oh and load up mordhau every once in a while for literally just the armory LOL.
Overwatch has more female players than other FPS for the same reason League has many female players. It is NOT because of the female characters but because there's dedicated "Support" roles that require you to do mechanically very little while still being "impactful". If champions like Soraka or Mercy didn't exist for the purpose they have in the game (and not if they have a PP or not), most of women wouldn't touch the game. If every character was DPS, and it was more like COD , almost no girl would play Overwatch , regardless of the diversity. If a female cast is all you needed to attract women, Fighting games , whose character rooster is usually nearly half female, would have droves of women playing them, yet it's 99.9% male. Women aren't going to play more uber competitive, uber toxic sword pvp game, regardless of the custimization you add to it.
dalooded, now explain why valorant has like 40% women despite it being fundamentally csgo, "support" doesn't actually exist in that game before you try and make that same argument
@@Stouty I wouldn’t believe that 40% mark. It would mean literally every 2nd player you play with is a woman which anyone who plays know obviously isn’t the case. The game does have fairly a lot of women playing though, sure, but it’s for other factors. It’s far more beginner friendly than cs:go or siege, the graphics are the least demanding so any girl with a school laptop could play it, the game is free and more. Also Valorant came out at the explosion of the pandemic and has a lot of of a cross player base with league of legends where a lot of women play already (relatively speaking). Like I said before, if what you’re saying is true more women would be playing fighting games but they clearly don’t. It’s about gameplay accessibility and personal taste(setting,aesthetic, genre) not diversity.
@@DaniTheHero it almost is like that in Valorant, csgo is also f2p and existed during the pandemic, I'm sure the percentage of female players is higher in fighting games then mordhau. If you don't think playable women makes a difference you are operating on a different plane to reality
Sorry but i believe that from "a top down perspective" as you put it, Age of Empires is clearly superior to both games by far. And you pretend to be a gamer smh my head...
Chiv 2 + mordhua combat+I'd buy that for a dollar. Sad to see (but expected)Torn bummer settled for the clunky anims ,floaty movement and sliding all over the place. If chiv 2 had chiv 1 s combat with backswings removed = more players ,potential for comp and more chances to stay alive in the long run. But as it is now,it s just aimed for console 'gamers' and people who game on their phone while taking a dump.
@@Stouty lol at you being so autistic you thought that adding playable she-knights was totes going to save your niche competitive medieval slasher game. absolute brainrot
What´s up Stouty, Hare here. I just got Chiv 2 this morning and couldnt stand the combat animations, for me Mordhau looks way more realistic. But i gotta admit the battle mode for Chiv 2 is vastly superior, frontline in mordhau has become a joke since year and a half. Hope to see you soon in VK! I´ve been practicing with Phat and want to try out with you :P Cheers as always!
Good video highlighting both of the melee game's flaws & positive attributes Stout. It's a shame that Chiv 2's combat isn't as polished as Mordhau's and there seems to be little to no focus on making the game more appealing to competitive sided players. It's a pretty well rounded game with stunning map designs and interesting teambased gamemode concepts, but if it had any sort of competitive side to it like its predecessor the game would have killed the Mordhau playerbase entirely on release and we would all be playing Chiv 2 right now & thats the biggest mistake they made with the game was to cater only to casuals in mind...
i think your hate for mordhau has blinded you a bit. if mordhau gets their grip and be able to make maps and atmosphere and objectives like chiv, then it's literally no competition. Right now, yes, I'd recommend chvi2 to casuals. Since I like to sweat, I'd choose mordhau.
Do you think it's likely - knowing what we do about Mordhau's map output - that we're going to get significantly more maps of a higher quality any time soon?
@@Stouty Prolly not, but again it's for different audiences. Casuals go to chiv 2. If you're willing to sweat a little bit and like a bit of torture, go for mordhau.
chivalry 2 is slow and has near zero customisation that alone is enough to dismiss it out of hand. bottom line is I bought both of them around the same time, and as a noob to both I found mordhau infinitely more engaging, chivalry I found mostly dull and gave up on after about 6 hours.
Chiv 2 has almost too must customisation for me to dig into as you have to customise 4 classes 3 times (masons, agatha, ffa) whereas Mordhau gives you all the options in one loadout
@@Stouty yes, except importantly mordhau's customisation extends significantly into actual gameplay, whereas from what I've seen of Chiv2, you're restricted to the class roles, which I immediately found really restrictive and unfun. as a noob in mordhau, even if I'm bad, I can pick up a bow, use siege equipment, or just mess around with beartraps and other shenanigans. the customisable gameplay elements make it more dynamic and interesting to actually engage with, whereas Chiv2 feels like it's asking you to limit your horizons and expectations right out the gate, which just feels disappointing, especially when playing them alongside eachother.
Mordhau failed to keep the 500k players on launch and absolutely wasted most resources on balancing weapons by a few ms each patchy (which probably just 1% of playerbase at that time cared about) instead of delivering more maps, obj etc. I enjoyed it nontheless. Just after about 800 hours and no real ambition to grind past diamond the gameplay went pretty stale. Cronching Pub servers as a big fish in a small bowl or getting cronched on elitist duel servers as a small fish in a large bowl instead of fun objectives is getting boring really fast. At some point I just helped noob archers by building some shit for them as engi to get atleast some sort of different gameplay. The whole game engine of mordhau is great. It is just so much lost potential as nothing is really done with it.
idk I actually refunded chivalry bc I just like the combat more in Mordhau. BY A LOT. i still think it's not perfect but... I just don't care about lore, or fancy maps. yea it's cool but all I really want to do is win against other players with my own customized characters. I wish the devs just tried harder. I wanted to play chiv bc I was getting sick about a few things in mordhau but I think I got sick after about 10 hours or so. I won and lost against players with very high levels on duel servers and I dont know why. I want a system where if I put in 500hours I will win against the 50hour guy 99/100 times. I just dont like chives combat system and since that's all I care about in these games I have to say no to chiv2. But one point I do wana give chiv in the chiv vs mordhau debate is that if you start playing now the future health of the game looks better development wise... I mean... The devs dont seem to have an asshole.... ehehehhehem *crush* ehehhehehem....
the gameplay looks like you're on autopilot. i tried to like chiv2, but it just feels like a super basic game made for people who wanna spam lmb and still perform well
Since many people really hate horses, mortar and catas in mordhau due to hating dying out of nowhere with little counterplay, what would be a good way to add force multipliers in a melee slasher like mordhau or chiv? I can see how crossroads mortar tower is a bad design because if a group of people bunkers down on it they can deny a lot of area indefinitely. Catapults too are often usable from inside the death zone. ATM fire arrows and fire bombs are usually the only possible counter to catas and even those are countered by repair hammer and/or smoke bombs creating this boring scenario of one player hammering cata and the other shooting arrows until he runs out of them.
@@dj_vanx So only best players can use them? If you give killstreak rewards to best players you will increase the snowball, if you give them to the worse team you will create a dumb scenario of "trying to win but not too much to not give enemy force multipliers"
I'm just having a hard time understanding why Torn Banner won't hire a competent animator. The animations are generally garbage, and it's not due to network issues.
Game is amazing while there was fighting going on in front of me I saw a red dude just sitting so I just joined him and we were both sitting while watching everyone fight
Mordhau is basically dead and only the devs can be responsible for that. If the devs cared about Mord as much as tombanner cares about chiv 2, Mordhau would most definitely be the best game in the genre. Crush and his lackies are getting too comfortable letting their game die all because crush is an ego maniac and can't seem to do his job correctly. I am an OG Mordhau player and its sad to see the game dead but the only people to blame are the lazy developers who take half a year to push out one minor update with one mediocre map. I tried playing chiv 2 and was repulsed by how terrible the animations and overcomplicated combat system was. Chiv 2 overall is a better for people who are true to the genre but Mordhau is just much more fun. Unfortunately Mordhau is getting less and less fun with the egomaniac players and the broken mechanics the devs refuse to acknowledge and fix. Mordhau has been suffering from the same issues for over 2 years and its honestly very sad. I hope eastern invasion 2 comes out soon before the game is dead dead and Stouty hopefully with your friend in the dev team the game can see some actual change to just make it fun again.
Videos mentioned:
Chivalry 2 - Combat Review: ua-cam.com/video/hgEbNfBqxEc/v-deo.html
Attending in-game wedding (SERIOUS ROLEPLAY): ua-cam.com/video/zeuIPh61V3w/v-deo.html
I will be forever mad, for the rest of my days, about how Mordhau turned out. What a grand, total waste of potential.
Sadly it feels like wasted p[otential is all this genre is good at
Anime avatar
@@Breakinwords league of legends spell icon
And its rengar too
Two L's for you
Medieval FPS games has been a waste of potential ever since Age of Chivalry
@@RiseSoup That don't look like Rengar to me
"you're never far away from your battle mutating into a monty python sketch" LITERALLY could not have said it better
Not really. That applies to mordhau much more. Mordhau actually has a perk called flesh wound where you can survive for a few seconds after your arm gets cut off.
Then add all the bards, the foppish voicelines, the ridiculous costumes and mordhau wins
@@alec4025 in chiv2 anyone and everyone has a possibility of surviving dismemberment. It's possible to survive even BOTH of your arms getting cut off, leaving you only able to kick and headbutt.
@@alec4025that’s all in chiv
@@id-nullfunny enough if you manage to kill someone whilst having your arm(s) cut off you can keep going. Before getting a kill you have a bleed out meter which limits how long you can live
@@id-nullmordhau has way better customization. if looking like everyone else is cool with you, chiv is ur game. mordhau is for ppl with better taste ig
Been playing Chivalry for about a week now and it is hands down the most fun I've ever had in a multiplayer game. We had a guy playing music smack dab in the middle of the battlefield and not a single soul from either faction touched him. Heads rolling limbs flying into his lap blood soaked his lute but not a single person tried to harm him. This really is a beautiful game, with a beautiful community.
mordhau the same thing happens but its usually metallica they play
@@rashaadevans4647 Mordhau is just not as accessible. I like this genre, but we just can't deny that Mordhau combat is like a dude with his sword above his head spinning drag morphing 360 no scope crouch swinging. Great for those who have perfected the advanced moves, but most people really have no shot. As a result, you will just naturally have a less fun, smaller player base. But hey, if you like sweat, Mordhau is for you
@@prospectbasement6723 my friend played the game for 3 days(not actual in game time) after only ever playing rocket league and CoD his whole life and now can go 20 and 8 consistently. No offense to you, i just think most people arent mentally competent enough to be able to play video games with any sort of difficulty. They get angry and upset in the face of challenge instead of excited that a game is hard and rewarding. This is why games like pokemon or even shit like rocket league are so popular, theyre dumb easy games that just give you quick small amounts of satisfaction. just like social media, its all to keep the masses dumbed down
@@rashaadevans4647 sounds like....we're in agreement? 😂
@@rashaadevans4647 I mean hey, at least it's still very much skill based, especially with the unique jab and down systems that Mordhau lacks. It's just that Chiv 2 is objectively more entertaining because most players don't automatically go "welp, I'm most certainly fucked" the moment they find themselves in a 2v1.
cant get over how dogshit the animations look in chiv2, Mord looks better to casuals, but top tier mordhau looks worse when you start fighting people who know how to mega cheese anims.
Learn to play kid
@@alberttwangle893 this is correct
So basically is never good for casuals
Mordau was a nightmare for me when I first started. I tried hard to get better but for newer players, it's awful constantly going against veterans running around with mauls. Casuals cannot enjoy that game
@@crimsonstardrago9707 not true at all maybe ur just not good enough? i got the game a month ago im level 30 and can compete with level 200s, all you gotta learn is good feints, know when to actually block against enemy feints, learn drags and accels and ur good trust me
Hope you and the team can bring the best from each game and combine it in contingent
I would build a shrine to Stouty if he managed to create a better Mordhau
@@marcolamagra9419 hahha preach!
I didn't know the dung covered peasant convention was in town.
I remember being hyped about Mordhau and hoping they get the same type of maps and team objective like Chiv 1. That did not happen, I think that really killed the game in the end because the combat was way better.
As a non-competetive player, I enjoy mordhau and chiv 2 about as much and I wasn't sure why because chiv 2 is much better when it comes to stuff that matters for casual gameplay. After thinking about it for a while I'm pretty sure it boils down to 2 things:
1) When chivalry 2 initially came out I thought the combat would feel clunky and noticeably less satisfying than mordhau from what I saw in videos. Although after trying it out, when smacking people in a typical fashion the hits felt as satisfying as mordhau and the innacuracies weren't felt. Since that's what you do like 80% of the time, chiv 2 is like a very consistent 4/5 in terms of gameplay. So then I thought "alright, what's the point of all this precision that mordhau has if I'm not playing competetive and the smacking feels just as satisfying?" But that wasn't the full picture - the problem is that mordhau has higher highs for me. That's because in these moments of flow where you're doing some crazy shit to survive a 1v3, matrixing swings, pulling your weapon above an ally's head and bringing it down on the enemy next to him - that's when the precision that mordhau allows shines, cause you feel so great after managing to pull it off. The fact that there is no timed block might also play a big role in that, not only because it's more intense and satisfying to block 3 hits in a row with a timed block, but also because the timed block in chiv 2 promotes - or at least makes most casual players default to - a more defensive playstyle, which means that you're less likely to catch someone not blocking by surprize and they interrupt your epic keanu chungus jon snow the witcher 3 reddit combo sequence.
2) This one is very subjective and won't be the case for most people but either way I got hooked on mordhau's customization - I wouldn't be surprized if almost half my playtime was in the armory. I got interested in medieval aesthetics because of this game.
And as a bonus, it's kinda opposite for me when it comes to humor than what you said in the video. Because mordhau is more realistic and sort of less aware of the... "funny potential" the emotes give, it ends up being more funny than chiv where it feels intentional and sort of streamlined, almost like it's trying a bit too hard. And personally I just like the voices more.
I wish there was a game that combined the strengths of both - that would prob be my favourite game ever made. Between playing mordhau and battlefield I basically forgot that such a thing as genuinely good map design exists almost like I had stockholm syndrome lmao and it felt great to experience in chiv 2. While mordhau does lean quite a lot into the gimmicky parts with being able to throw some weapons etc, I used to imagine so many more additions that would have been fun to fuck around with and chiv 2 perfectly showed that (polearm charging is SO FUCKING FUN man). Throw in mordhau's combat and customization and just keep adding maps, voices and cosmetics and I would be playing that game until my deathbed or until Gabe Newell comes up with some vr neuarlink full body experience console that pumps dopamine directly into my brain and makes me feel like I'm doing meth while playing.
You're definitely not alone for point 2
I think you captured why I prefer mordhau perfectly, I hadn't really been able to put it into words before reading this
Yeah, Mordhau is funny af, Chiv 2 tries to be funny
@@jezusee I feel like Mordhau is mainly funny from the sheer creativity of the players, e.g. lute bot, various exploits, VK trolling in tourneys, Frankenstein face mod - Mordhau did (unintentionally) offer a lot of tools for funny moments to happen but also relies heavily on the playerbase to create them. Since realising that Mordhau has benefited from such creative moments the devs are now leaning on it too heavily with dwarf perks, goofy squat animation and pavise surfing dedicated emote
@@Stouty spot on
I love Mordhau and I just want the game to be more beautiful and better.
We need both chiv 2 devs and mord devs to get together and make a glorious game!
*cough* epic games might want a word
@@auntmaysbajanpeppersauce359 epic games may watch the pristine beauty that would unfold upon there eyes.
as long as crush isn't involved... they need to take another look at the genre and control drags/accels better. Until the genre gets it's shit together on the average player relying on that as opposed to actual skill based combat... it's destined to fail.
I pray this never happens for chivalry 3’s sake
Voice acting and sound is more natural in Mordhau
I played chiv 2 for an hour and refunded it. I found mordhau way more fun even though the game is dead and run by exploiters. I was one of the 30 people who liked the old horde and was devastated when they changed it. This was almost the final nail in the coffin for me but I keep playing it because… just because.
there's community modded servers that run old horde, gotta search them up a bit in the browser.
Exact same story for me lol especially the 'just because.' Tons of great memories to look back on at least, I guess we are trying to relive some of them.
@@FreakMeat74 I think it is because getting better at the game was so fun. I feel myself almost chasing the high.
Another reason is I just find nothing as addicting as mordhau, nothing will fulfill this man. And it isn't for lack of trying either.
@@FreakMeat74 that's mostly what this game is now, memories
@@youtubewatch9086 My highest highs (from gaming) are definitely from Mord, no question about it. It's a special game and experience.
bro really thinks medieval hack & slash games don't have female playerbases because of a lack of representation for female knights 😭😭😭😆 yiiiikes
now explain why Valorant has such a large % of women playing compared to CS 🫵🤣
@@Stouty There are tons of female character options in BOTH games so your own argument of difference in female playerbase % between the two games doesn't mean its because of a lack of diversity for female choice, if that's what you're getting at. Also CS is a more grounded military themed game compared to valorants cartoony aspect and cast of characters, so if anything you're just aiding OP's argument even further in why he's right about girls simply not being attracted to particular types of genres. Additionally CS and Valorant are some of the most popular games for streaming so of course there's going to be a disparity compared to an unknown game like chiv 2, but again it's not just because muh 'i can't play as a female knight' sake. You're acting very aloof in your reasoning so its no wonder nobody can tell what you're getting at with your trivial cs/val argument, but in any case you're wrong.
@@sandstormxxxhellfire1386 Except CS and Valorant are the same genre. CS only recently added female skins that YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR. Crazy how you forgot that part :')
@@Stouty bro completely sidesteps everything he said just to note duhh "same genre" as if that matters lmfao you're a fucking loooo0oser
but that was obvious when you thought 50% of the population automatically must equal 50% of an extra potential playerbase 🙃
@@manny4571 Uhh no, pointing out that Valorant and CS are the same genre shatters his central claim that "girls simply not being attracted to particular types of genres". They're the same genre. You BOTH got DESTROYED 🫵🤣
I usually disagree with a lot of what you say, but your comments on the map and mode design in Mordhau is spot on.
I dont know man, as long as characters are sliding over the ground, chiv2 looks like an arcade game.
arcade game vs animation exploit game
what do you mean sliding over the ground? are you talking about the glitch that was patched ages ago
@@nunyabidness3429 true, at this point im happy its more arcady, im just done with those games that just raise bloodpressure
@@organicleaf This.
@@nunyabidness3429 you clearly never played chiv1, it had the exact same shit
chiv 2 desktop logo is better than mordhau
but can you duel the witcher using frying pans while a guy dressed up as Shrek plays All star on a lute and shawn??
I played Chiv 2 during beta, so it could be different now, but it was a game I really wanted to love. I loved the maps, objectives, and visuals, but the core combat just felt messy to me. After playing it for a while, it made me want to just go play Mordhau because Chiv 2's gameplay just felt really clunky in comparison. The problem is, Mordhau feels super dead in comparison. I really wish we could get a game that's a good in between, Mordhau's combat with Chiv's map design and world building. I might give Chiv 2 another go once it's on steam but I don't think much changed since the beta build I played since it was pretty close to release at that point.
Try out the arena mode where you can get to grips with the combat in 1v1s, once it clicks it becomes a lot more enjoyable (don't go the dedicated duelyards unless you want to get scarred for life)
@@Stouty The dedicated duelyards are alright if you want quick fire stuff, you've just got to pay attention to the names and their K/D to figure out who you want to fight. Surprisingly enough, there's a lot more newer players milling about in the duelyards who often keep to their own groups.
@@Stouty As a small update: played chiv 2 all day yesterday, feels a lot better than when I last played it, tbh I think I prefer it over Mordhau at this point. It's by no means perfect and there are things I think Mord does better, but you were right that it becomes enjoyable once it clicks and it motivates me to get good as Mordhau did.
I wished I shared the same sentiment with Chiv, but I really don't. Most of that comes down to the combat:
- There a REASON why Mordhau got rid of no-stam chambers, but Chiv 2 apparently didn't get the memo. Having both sides fence each other endlessly is both uncompelling and lacks any sense of tension. It is EXTREMELY safe to just spam Slash over and over and over again, and this goes triple for any fast weapon. On top of that, they don't make use of alt swings, so it's literally just three possible chamber angles, as opposed to Mordhau's seven. The window for counters is huge too, so you have at least a one-in-three blind chance to counter just by luck.
- It takes WAAAY too long to guardbreak someone whose playing in a very predictable manner. With counters being stamina neutral for almost every weapon, ripostes refunding stamina back to an attacker and no stamina penalties on miss, fights with clearly inferior opponents are obnoxiously dangerous and time consuming. Kicks have been shown to be very easy to work around, as the millisecond the server detects someone doing anything other guarding, your kick's punish is immediately nullified.
- The footwork/movement is horrible. I kept wondering why people always seem to only use Slash, and i eventually figured out why: You need a 3,000dpi mouse to hit anyone whose strafing with a Stab or Overhead. In fact, you can circle strafe people, like Doom monsters. I've been victim to braindead players who orbit me, spamming dodges and Slashes, usually hitting me around my parrybox. Can't beat them with feints, can't do anything to slow them down, and baiting whiffs only stalls the fight longer. Never thought I would see For Honor dodge-heavy attacks in a Chivalry-style combat system.
- I think someone fucked up the tracing on Overheads. Stabs "mostly" feel fine, but so many Overheads whiff for no reason. Slash on the other hand, hits almost everything. Looking at the animation, I can see the problem: The model is swinging the weapon LITERALLY over his head, and NOT his shoulders like it should be.
- Combine all of this together with big team fights, and almost no one gets disarmed, but rather killed through their guard, whether by 1vX or by scraping things around the parrybox. So much for holding your block.
- The weapons just have no character. The convoluted system of damage types and resistances makes everything inconsistent. Polehammers don't hit much harder than halberds, nor falchions much different to maces. The spear feels less powerful, simply because people can dance around it all day. On the flip side, the Highlander Sword is ridiculous, having massive Slashes with big stamina drain on block, and yet it's still fast enough to keep pace with the Longsword on riposte.
I know Mordhau has it's faults, but the community needs to come together to deliver fixes and experiment with the combat. Because Chiv 2 just ain't it, chief.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, however in a TO server there's plenty of methods to dispatch the average player to the point where these criticisms are largely irrelevant
@@Stouty
I mentioned that in my comment. Basically, if your team is garbage, there's very little you can do outside of arrows to confirm damage. In Mordhau, you can still rack up plenty of kills by exploiting lulls in the crowd surges, or by finding the cracks in a crowd's defense. None of that is possible here, and it's not always going to be XvX all the time; 1v1s can still break out. You NEED good, unreactable combat as a base, and it's not here.
Even the RP side isn't very good. I spent about as much time going back for bandages to heal as I did fighting. Despite those lapses in combat, I never caught anyone trying to interact with anything, or playing music, or even combat emoting. Despite having way more interactive set pieces, people just don't engage with it.
Considering how the PC browser servers are completely dead, besides one or two duel servers with a handful of people, I struggle to see how Steam will boost it's longevity. No idea why they decoupled Quick-match from the browser, or why there's literally nobody on those servers. But I suspect that the player base can't really be that much bigger than Mordhau's, even taking console into account. Many would rather play For Honor, or something else.
I uninstalled a while ago. I'm not holding my breath that they'll redo major parts of the combat. All the while, I'll be waiting to see what happens with Mordhau mods.
@@Darkstar198 i think a lot of your issues stem from playing on pc. Nearly every match im in on ps4 youll have someone running around with a harp just having fun. In fact i like to use "diplomacy" to distract the enemy team and start a dance party. Its funny how often the enemy will stop attacking when they see im just playing my harp and join me.
Much of the combat in chivalry comes down to variation in attack, people cheesing the slash get cut down by an overhead or stab. Parry with a slash, then feint into an overhead or stab and bam youve won the clash. If they adapt then spam slash to draw them back in or maintaint your variations.
@@morpheusbutasasquirtle4431
The "variance" in the combat isn't enough on it's own. I feint (morph) a LOT to try and stop people from just LMB spam, but it either doesn't work or isn't fast enough to kill before more people show up to fight. Follow-ups, especially Overheads, usually miss because of the aforementioned fuckery in range and angling. If you miss, thier spam will always hit you, because you "gambled" into them. Ripostes gives you some stam back, and can be used effectively to stall fights if you can't counter for whatever reason. Often, most of my damage came from people hitting around my parrybox, or clipping me at the very end of release (graze, with no damage reduction). Or from being unable to catch every attack in my limited parrybox during 1vX.
Kicks are too easy to punish, and don't really work as intended. Jabs get wonky too, and are easily blocked without stam loss. This is before we even talked about netcode.
I honestly love Chivalry 2, I do admit that the gameplay can be a bit clunky but I enjoy it.
Also I hate how people say that the animations on chivalry 2 look awful, the animations are fine, they may not look the best or are realistic enough but their ok.
people are weird in that regard, those are probably the same people who said elden ring has shit graphics
@@vivala4tabajoelcapitalismo976 they’re average not bad
animations in mordhau don''t look that great either
sound effects and seemingly hand-animated characters in Chiv 2 makes it cartoonish. I love how realistic Mordhau is
*dwarves, giants, goblins, several different centuries of weaponry and armour mashed together...*
I wish there was a melee slasher that was realistic and historical, maybe one day...
@@jibrailhattar190 you mean 2 vets abusing animations looking completely fucking retarded high level pvp in mordhau is retarded
@@jibrailhattar190 nice essay
m&b still the best melee game
@@jibrailhattar190 nice essay I'm not gonna read it maybe dumb it down to like a sentence?
mordhau= brutal! it doesnt matter what level you are! its about experience , i have seen one guy take on 6 guys and kills them all!
chivalry 2= more friendly to new players.
Is it just me or Chiv 2 animations and combat feels so weird? I mean look at the footage, it looks like they have molasses under their armor and as if they struggle to move and do exaggerated movements as a result. The swings feel so off. I played chiv 1 in the past and when i tried chiv 2 after 700 hours on Mordhau i couldn't get behind it at all. Even though the game itself was kind of fun the combat and general feel put me off
I haven't played Mordhau but Chiv 2 does feel slow, which is realistic. People aren't going to be moving quick in plate armor or carrying a giant hammer. But realistic isn't always fun for everyone. Depends on your preference and expectations.
I like the feel of Chiv 2 because the weapons have "weight" to them and the pace of combat feels strategic instead of just being able to brute force and button mash the way to victory.
@@vincer7824 No I don't mean slow as in realistic. It feels so cartoonish. Look closely at the animation of the body when two people are fighting. It's like theyre marionettes and they're being pulled around, resulting in strange movement. Look at mordhau fights, the movement looks much better and fluid. And they move like actual people.
Not saying mordhau is better just saying my reason for disliking chivalry.
As a casual player, think that both Modhau and the Chivalry 2 is a really good "medieval games", but the main and more important word in this pair of words for Mordhau is "Medieval" and for Chivalry is "Game".
Mordhau really got me with this Stockholm syndrome styled gameplay, when it is SO hard to play on the same level as the most veterans or just skilled fraggers are playing that the satisfaction from victory is actually big enough to keep playing and improving, even through the countless losses. Mordhau doesnt equalise players in anything, if you suck - nothing will try to help you, only your own improvement will make you better. I'm around 100 casual level in Mordhau and i still consider myself only veeeery slightly above the complete noob level. It really feels like winning a war when you win the tough battle, and the bad map design actually makes this feeling stand out even more, because when you have to get the powder barrels on the Camp to the towers to blow them up it is all up to players, nothing else will help you, it's just shitty little you, your shitty little squad of team players and the entire enemy's army, that's how it feels. And basically, for me entire Mordhau feels like that, and defeating this inhumanly looking army of enemies or even just completing the objectives feels very... "agains all odds", that's how it feels.
I didn't try Chivalry 2 yet, but what i have seen and heard tells me that Chivalry is much more of a "Game" than a Mordhau. I think the game design shouldn't be as harsh as it is in Mordhau, but the Chivalry just looks like something uderwelmingly easy, at least from the side and in the eyes of the Mordhau player. I will definately try Chivalry out as soon as i will get money for it, but for now i really like the Mordhau's "victory against all odds" gameplay style more than anything more balanced and "game-ish". When you get your victory on schedule the victory is not as satisfying, when you expect the miracle to happen, it's not the miracle anymore, it's routine.
Also i usually pay a lot of attention to animations, and Chivalry 2 weapon swings animations look so dead and blank in comparison with Mordhau's weapons animations. It is just satisfying to swing the sword or axe in Mordhau, and i am not sure if it is as satisfying on Chivalry.
The best thing that can happen to both games is if they would blend together into something in between. That would be ideal medieval game.
I've played some Chiv 2 and lots of Chiv 1, and I have to say that, no, it's not easy. It simply cannot be easy because you are playing against other people (if they are bad, you win; if they are better than you, you loose). No, it's not easy, but it is forgiving and a lot more casual feeling.
Let me explain: I've had duels against legendary veteran Chiv 1 and Mordhau veterans in Chiv 2 and killed them a couple times, and I've had duels with complete beginners that have killed me a couple times, even if I ended up winning. If you are good, you are more likely to win, but the difference between good players and bad players is not as abysmal as in the older games. It could be because players have more tools to get out of sticky situations or to surprise the opponent, because there isn't a head multiplier in melee so fights take more hits to finish, it might be that you can hold your block instead of having to perfectly parry every attack or that the game is so fun that one can get carried away and fumble a duel or two.
In Chiv 1, as a casual LvL 40-something, I am nearly un-killable to players bellow LvL 20, but, at the same time, as hard as I try, I cannot reliably kill players that are on LvL 60, not even in 2v1s.
I think this is OK. I find myself complimenting players after fights for their prowess, only to find out they had just downloaded the game two weeks ago. It's such a warm feeling, to see a chiv-like game where noobs can do well and develop their skills without being spooked by the extremely low skill floor. Also, where Chiv 1 is a lot about muscle memory and perfecting a set number of techniques, Chiv 2 is a lot more about knowing your enemy and braingames. I haven't played Mordhau, but I believe it too is about making the right moves at the right time, rather than perfecting them.
Overall, Chivalry 2 is fun and inclusive. In addition, people in this game are very polite, and there are virtually no gatekeepers, because they all stayed in Chiv 1 and Mordhau. So far, I've only witnessed just three assholes (like, guys actually insulting other players or calling them slurs + playing in a very scummy fashion) but I believe those are all veterans trying to "farm noobs" and crush the community because they hate change and themselves. But, yeah, the game's good.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 I have tried Chiv 2 myself, and i have to agree with everything you said. The game is amazing, it is much more of a game in a first place than a Mordhau, which slightly feels like a demo version to test the combat system after Chiv 2. The people in game are amazing, in comparesing with the Mordhau's community, which is filled with a clowns and tryhards, Chiv 2 community looks very polite and attracting, even the hatred for archers is actually fair and deserved, because they are very op in Chiv, even i hate them and i mained crossbow in Mordhau for a long time. In general the Chivalry is just more acceptinge and less punishing than Mordhau, at least for now.
The combat systems are amazing in both games, both Mordhau and Chiv 2 rely on the braingames to outsmart opponent and get past his defences, but in Mordhau you had much less moves to do, so you had to either be rather smart with them to fool the enemy or just use the animation abuse (drags, accels and other chivalry 1 legacy), which made fighting the veterans a big pain. In Chivalry 2 you have much bigger variety of moves and tricks to fool the opponent, and this prevents the veterans to be as horrifying as they are in mordhau, but also makes the game feel a little too... synthetic, i didn't feel as much of a victory vibe after defeating the lvl 60 player in Chiv 2, because i only used the right moves in right time, when in Mordhau the same fight with the same people can feel much more intense, because of much more intense brainfighting between you and another skilled player, and you just expect something cheeky to be performen by the opponent, fights just give more adrenaline in Mordhau for me, especially the team fights. But i still love how Tornbanner made the combat system, it is much closer to the real sword fight than a Mordhau's system, even with all the simplifyings Chiv 2 made. I wish these 2 combat systems blended together, that would be gorgeous.
The only 2 things that still keep me in Mordhau and that i don't like in Chiv 2 is the animations and the feeling of "victory against all odds" i told about in my comment. And if the latter is just comes after Mordhaus much more chaotic fights, the former is Chiv's big problem in my opinion. Animations in Chiv 2 are rather horrible, at least they are much, much worse than in Mordhau. I don't know why, but in Chiv all weapons swings, all movement and some other things feels kind of like entire body of player made of logs or wooden planks. I don't know how to describe it properly in english, but in Mordhau they are much more smooth and look much more real. In general it is just more satisfying to swing with the weapons in Mordhau than in Chivalry 2, i think Tornbanner should improve animations, if it is possible.
Overall, Chivalry 2 manged to do very well exactly all the things Mordhaus didn't do well, but Chivalry didn't do well all the things Mordhau actually did very well. If only somebody would combine these 2 games, it would be the perfect first person slasher. Chiv is more fun than Mordhau for now, at least in some aspects, and Mordhau is more of the adrenaline factory, at least for me, and both things are amazing at the right time.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 Also for some reason, in Chivalry 2 Mason Order always get the best players, i dont know why, but in Mordhau red team also did get all the good players over the blue before Triternion made that you can't switch teams manually anymore, so it seems that all the veterans are attracted by the red and black colours. I love how Agathian team looks and i love the blue team in mordhau because of it's positions on most of the maps, so sometimes it really feels like in Chivalry, like it was in Mordhau not so long ago, teams are not balanced very well. At least there are always more people with higher levels in Mason than in Agatha in Chiv 2, which made many matches for me a little harder than they should have been.
@@jumpinghunter9152 The thing that annoys me about Chiv 2's animations are so much the actual animations, but how the player's clothes react to movement. In Chiv 1 clothes are completely solid, but in Chiv 2, they sort of flail all over the place and are very distracting at times.
Also, sometimes it's hard to tell what class you are fighting, since many weapons are shared between two or three classes, all players can have any face or voice they want, plus the Tenosians only have two helmets and armor sets for four different classes, plus nobody bothers customizing thier Tenosians so absolutely everybody has that "Soldier" head and default hairstyle, which only confuses me further.
Also, I would pay to have the option to buy custom heraldry, just like you have in Chiv 1, and I assume Mordhau. Not that the heraldry we have is bad, but it's a layer of customisation I think everyone appreciated and now misses, specially for FFA, since you could pick absolutely any colour combination you like, but now that's not the case anymore.
But, as I said, I haven't played Mordhau, so I can't comment on the feel of the animations in that game, though I can say with confidence that characters are much, much less rigid that they are in Chiv 1.
@@lordtomlluckrahthegreat9014 In Mordhau you only have to buy weapons and armour skins (and 4 voices as a DLC for real money for some reason), weapons are extremely cheap, you can win 1 round of team gamemode or lose 1 or 2 and you already will have enough money for at least 1 or 2 new weapons, but armour are rather expensive, and to get some specific set of armor you have to play a little longer and bank up some money. Mordhau doesn't have premium money like crowns in Chiv 2 though, so you can't buy something expensive as soon as you want it. The same goes for weapon reskins, but again, they are usually cheap enough to buy them after a few matches. Everything else, like emblems, colours, faces, standart voices and other things are free. Although you don't have any heraldry in the first place, you have the emblem, which is the symbol of some kind you will have on your cloth if it have premade place for it, and some armour and weapons have different patterns and colour, this helps with customisation a lot but it does look less medievaly believably than heraldry in Chiv. Some things, like weapons, also have to be unlocked by reaching sertain levels, but most weapons are like, restricted to level 5 or something like that, but level restrictions are much more symbolic and less annoying than they are in Chiv 2. If you collected enouhg money for something you probably will be able to buy it.
Also Mordhau comes with huge discount of 75% due to the second part of eastern invasion update now, so you probably should give it a try, it will worth it.
even if mordhau is dead chiv2 gameplay looks really bad
It's messy
Great video, Chiv 2 really does capture that awe of large battles like the ones from movies like braveheart.
Be warned however, with this the mordhau cultist will be all over you for being a 'traitor'
Mordhau deserved so much more, but it had the worse dev team
500 hours on Mordhau and am finally losing it. Hopefully Chivalry 2 delivers when it comes to Steam. Thanks for the analysis Stouty, all I want to play is Invasion and the map design on Chivalry 2 has me excited
Overwatch has more female players than other FPS games because it allows support roles, team-work etc. and has a cute art-style with distinct characters and interactivity complete with outfits.
Women just aren't interested in a gritty melee slasher, or a tactical shooter. One can try to ignore reality, or one can accept that men and women like different things and get on with it. CoD's player base is probably at least 95% male, and is a financial and player-retentive success, as are many other FPS games.
Anyone who thinks that if you just add female characters to a massively autistic game genre the women will want to play their massively autistic game, then they are massively autistic themselves.
Also, Chiv 2 and M&B have female characters, how many women play these games? That's what I thought.
Look into the "Scully effect" - of course it would have an impact, perhaps not right away or a massive one. Also other fps games have support roles yet Overwatch still has a greater percentage of women
@@Stouty the Scully effect sounds like some pseudoscience mumbo jumbo a sociology major came up with.
Yes, other FPS games have support roles, let's not ignore all the other aspects of Overwatch I mentioned. Also there is a very big difference to having characters with support roles in a game like Rainbow Six that still requires you to be fundamentally good at FPS games, and Overwatch which allows you to play a dedicated support role in which you can still do OK even if you're braindead at FPS games.
I've friend's who are terrible at most games, especially FPS games, who play the shit out of Overwatch. They enjoy it because they can do OK in it and the game is built around the lowest common denominator being made feel like they helped.
Having said all that, the amount of women in the Overwatch eSports scene is still small.
Women just aren't interested in melee slashers unless you make some cutesy Overwatch clone. It's a waste of time and energy.
Of all the women I know, I know two that even play games, and the games they play are the Sims and RuneScape. Of all the blokes I know, most at least play games every now and then casually.
If you think women are interested in such games then I can't help you.
Female characters should be only be added to such games if it fits the game and adds value, not out of virtue signaling or a naive attempt at getting more female players that will amount to a less than 1% rise in players.
@@LaughingMan44 Which game do you think has more women playing, valorant or csgo? Keep in mind the role system is basically irrelevant as you need to be able to hit heads in both to have impact
@@LaughingMan44 "Female characters should be only be added to such games if it fits the game and adds value, not out of virtue signaling or a naive attempt at getting more female players that will amount to a less than 1% rise in players." is a contender for worst take in 2022
not only is that blatantly wrong, but a contradictory statement. what else is value if not either; getting more people interested in a game; or allowing more people to express themselves?
you seem so completely adverse to the inclusion of female characters to a degree that you almost seem misogynistic, making me doubt you know any women at all besides your mother, but that's besides the point, as being adverse to something implies there is a negative to adding it, and i don't see one in this situation. is it really that offensive to know that out there, someone besides you, feels their character in a game represents them, or their feelings about themselves? or even if it isn't, that their avatar in a game is something other than how they look in real life? male people can still use female characters, and vice versa, and in fact i wouldn't be surprised if there was an even split in genders in game despite an overwhelming male majority of players out of game.
i will afford you the one point that it may not be historical, but to hyperfocus on that when you have shitty animations, silly humorous voicelines, cosmetic inaccuracies, and weapons being drawn out of thin air, is quite weird. i agree that adding extreme inclusivity to a certain point may detract from historical accuracy, but is another gender that extreme? are female mercenaries really significantly inaccurate enough to warrant gating half the population from your game?
"It's a waste of time and energy." what an inane point. why have a nice historically accurate battleground when you can have a white box? why have character models and detailed swords when you can have colourless hitboxes held by disembodied arms and legs? if you can't justify even one new model as a waste of expenses, how can you justify any cosmetic addition or development to the game?
from a gameplay standpoint, it's not like updates to mechanics will be delayed by new models, the developers for code probably aren't making the models, and have no reason to greatly alter hitboxes or even change them at all if the models look similar enough. i'm sorry, but no, having thinner waists doesn't mean they will be harder to hit, and having breasts won't make them easier to hit either.
furthermore, it's a hardly a waste if people use them. an example is the dwarf perk in mordhau. it's nearly completely useless in combat, even detrimental, yet people still use it to roleplay or as cheese. it's maybe a waste of resources to a subhuman ranked spammer who only cares about the total efficiency of a game that, let's be honest, will only ever have a small competitive scene, but you aren't the only person person playing the game, so generalising your experience and vision of a game to a MUCH wider community is quite arrogant
the idea that women are uninterested in fps or melee slashers because of the incredibly biased esports scene is equally irrelevant and an over generalisation. esports are incredibly exclusive, you have to become extremely good at a game and be very dedicated to reach the peak of a game, let alone participate in competitions for money, so not many people are interested in the timesink required. this makes them a pretty unfair comparison to average level play and even worse is that mordhau is completely anti competitive as seen by the mistreatment of VK so a comparison is pointless anyway
just because the scene is practically male exclusive, doesn't mean that women aren't interested. if anything the lack of women in esports is evidence to the contrary as they are more likely to be alienated and isolated even if skilled, and if they aren't the ridicule is even worse. an example is league of legend's only female team, whom were absolutely terrible at the game, and were naturally destroyed by the male teams that actually played the game. this was arbitrarily taken as "evidence" that women are bad at the game and shouldn't participate in esports, which is pretty unfair as they were doomed to fail from the getgo, and despite that one team being terrible, there are plenty of female players who are incredibly good at the game, and/or popular on platforms like twitch or youtube.
with regards to the fps or melee slasher genre, saying that the inclusion of female characters is offset by the inclusion of roles is pretty biased, as csgo does not have an identical clone with female characters yet, and since overwatch is too different inherently to compare we can't know for sure. i feel valorant however is similar enough to compare the presence or lack thereof, of female avatars. valorant has a staggering 30-40% female playerbase, whereas csgo has 24% at a push. can you really say that just because the characters have abilities and to some degree there is a role system that women flock to the game? do you think that csgo would be more popular with this audience if there were abilities and no female characters?
i cant find stats on chivalry 2's female playerbase percentage yet, i can't generalise the fps numbers to the melee slasher genre since they are too different, and since the female avatars in chiv 2 are atrocious, i can't say that with a 100% certainty that adding female avatars will resurrect the genre or make female players flock to the game, but i think it's fair to say that NOT adding them would be a mistake, if you think that's not true, i can't help you
@@Stouty Barely any women play Valorant either, and those that do were probably lured in by the fact that did everything they could to make it look like Overwatch. You're grasping at straws.
I'm sorry, you'll never have a melee-slash playing waifu.
Chivalry 2 launching on steam will probably be the final killing blow to Mordhau which makes me sad because of all the good memories I had both in casual and competitive matches.
Stouty, please a medieval slasher with mordhau customization and chiv 2 combat, A DREAM FOR CASUALS
As a member of the Chiv 2 Duel Community, thanks for the shout out! We have tournaments on discord too ;)
Chiv 2 is more fun because of the map variety,cool map and the invasion. Those things are the things that made me fell in love with chiv 1. I think combat in mordhau is more complex and skilled but chiv 2 is more fun. Also stouty i've been watching ur videos since early mordhau. Much love
Yea,i played mordhau and combat was too difficult for me. I'm now playing chivalry 2 and it's way more easier and fun for me
And now the regicide update (the last update of this game)
As a dumb pleb who had fun in Chiv 1, did okay in some matches, had fun all the time:
When I followed the hype wagon and went over to Mordhau, I can't explain what went wrong, but I rarely had fun.
I played Chiv by myself, and things just clicked and made sense after a while. I had those moments with randoms where we turned a match around, or at least got our shit together and gave it back.
I went into Mordhau with good friends on the hype wagon, and it was nothing but frustrating, very few fun moments.
I think, and this is coming from a casual, that the skill ceiling might have been blown out.
I dunno, but Chiv 1 was good times, and Mord left me annoyed.
I like Mordhau more than chiv, but I think both are fun games. Mordhaus main issues stem from the garbage development time for patches. They'd succeed so much more as a game is they did small patches like every other well renown game instead of releasing one massive patch every 6 months to a year (or two). The first reason for slow dev time was their engine upgrades, but now they have known exploits in the game that they say they'll fix but they'll fix it with their next big patch.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game and still play it, ranked is garbage because you have so many unreadable animations at higher ranks, but I still thoroughly enjoy Invasion and FL.
And it's an unpopular opinion, but New horde is a hell of a lot better than old horde. Old horde would have you join in a game late with no money, die because you didn't have good armor, then watch the dude on top of the scoreboard making a train of enemies and slowly killing them over 5-10 minutes, respawn with a meager amount of gold, and attempt to run across the map to buy some decent weapon or armor that was hidden and hard to find.
New horde still has issues but it's much more friendly to less experienced players or ones who joined late. But at least you can take out enemies without having to form a 50 person train and you can rez your noob teammates so they can actually enjoy the game.
to be honest back when mordhau released and i actually switched games i was extremely happy to maybe get a chiv experience without having to deal with people spinning around like beyblades. i was very pleasantly surprised that it did not even really feel like a chivalry game but rather its own thing because the actual gameplay was so responsive and smooth. then i met the first enemy player that just ran around naked with a pan and some rocks and kept doing emotes and i knew right away that mordhau was gonna be one of my favorite games. i liked that there was a whole list of seperate shouts and emotes because it felt like i had more freedom in my expressions towards other players and whenever i got the hang of the controlls and mechanics it really felt amazing fighting other players, i never had that feeling during my time with chivalry, because as you said it yourself here, the main aspect of that game and now apparently the new one is not smooth gameplay but well designed maps with well thought out objectives.
now i am just wondering if it is really so easy to say that chiv 2 is the better game because of better maps, female characters and the humor not coming from just the players but also the main game. to me personally 2 out of these 3 things are irrelevant and the last isn't more important than the controlls feeling smooth.
what i can say however is that your video made me strongly consider buying chiv 2 to give it a try and see if i like it more than mordhau
also i am not going to proof read all that i hope the text is readable to anyone who even tries to
As someone who can very much relate to that and has played a significant amount of both games, I can definitely say for certain that Mordhau still has it's own charms and cool aspects which Chiv 2 lacks, but unfortunately it's a lot more unforgiving and, well, not quite as chaotic by comparison. It's a lot more personalized, sure, but Chiv 2 has the advantage in letting you pick up and throw almost anything you can think of (minus bear traps), and setting things up just right to where you actively see more people getting in real close to a chaotic groupVgroup fight than you would in Mordhau, as friendly fire is low and the blocking mechanic is less punishing. I dunno, there's just something about it that actively *feels* more like a real battlefield by comparison, if that makes sense. All helped by how there's not quite a feeling of "welp, I'm fucked" upon facing two guys at once as there was with Mordhau.
But yea, 10/10, would sit in a wooden porta-potty and scream voicelines until the enemy team notices and chops down the bathroom walls to get at me again (no joke, you can just casually chill in those, and on benchs/seats. Why? Just for the hell of it, of course).
@@dontfret420id did try chiv 2 a little while later and unfortunately i did up not liking the way the controls felt so i haven't played since.
i kept playing mordhau almost daily for most of the last year, but haven't played it either for about a month now.
it is easy to get into though. the mechanics are new player friendly and easy to get the hang of so i would suggest you just try it yourself for 1 or 2 hours and see wether you are bothered by the animations or simplified combat.
since you are a big fan of the way weapons are done in mordhau however i don't think you will like the fighting in chiv 2 either, but i can't know for certain of course.
chiv 2 also has better combat so...
Homie. Chiv combat feels off. At least mordhau combat can have some sort of smoothness to it
loved the video stouty, thank you for your work
0:45 what the hell kind of move was that can someone explain?
he just countered feinted and jumped
it really is a shame what has Mordhau turned into, from not just lack of communication with the devs, but also map design and many many more, also it confuses me how there are mortars and 16th century armor and Landsknecht in the game, yet there's no gunpowder weaponry like handgonne, and that's another problem, that being the community being so overly sensitive to topics like the flail and ranged weapons
and here's the worst part
it's gonna be really rough for casuals and normal gamers to have a good time with Mordhau, especially online with tryhards, dwarves spamming the foppish laugh and naked guys with mauls and no armor at all because they "mastered" the art of dragging their weapon when swinging
and so the casual gamers get discouraged and so think about leaving, and then the Mordhau players (including those who have no life, no offense), to ramble about Mordhau slowly losing players (as far as i know from googling and doing research)
so yeah, Torn Banner made an absolute come back against Mordhau with Chivalry 2, and i can't wait for female models and flail weapons (also i wonder if they're gonna do the "deadliest warrior" thing like with Chivalry 1)
Omg I forgot about the chiv deadliest warrior thing. Yes please, bring that back!
@@gallowglass3764 yeah! That would be awesome!
Chivalry 2 is almost everything I wanted out of the medieval combat game.
I don't agree on Mordhau being better in that regard as that game's competitive aspect replies too heavily on unintuitive mechanics and absolutely dogshit animations, with people doing fast overhead swings while bent 90 degrees and twisting their arms as if they're trying to do a naruto run. Being good at 50/50 is a major part of Mordhau gameplay.
Thank god Torn Banner abandoned that completely and centered the combat around actually intuitive AND consistent mechanics. It actually rewards good judgement, spacing and reactions over learning cheesy ass setups and guessing, it's closer to a fighting game in that regard.
Outside of having ranked mode, the only things Mordhau actually did better are customizations and weapon variety, including different grips that impacted gameplay and cute little things like throwing a pommel at people.
uhh I wouldn't describe chiv 2 as consistent lol initiative is all over the place and suffers from severe mechanical bloat in comparison to Mordhau - both unfortunately suffer from jank anims at high level but yeah it does feel closer to a fighting game in some aspects (which may or may not be a good thing)
@@Stouty >I wouldn't describe chiv 2 as consistent lol initiative is all over the place
The initiative isn't random, so it's consistent regardless. Compared to Mordhau it also doesn't have a multitude of variables like swing speed, janky angles, or armor and body multipliers to make the combat less consistent. It added dmg% bonuses against armored vs unarmored opponents but it's still not as big of a factor.
>mechanical bloat in comparison to Mordhau
Mechanical bloat such as what? Chiv doesn't have too many mechanics, and all of them feed into RPS gameplay without people having to rely on animation abuse like in Mordhau.
> both unfortunately suffer from jank anims at high level
Not even comparable, Chiv animations at their worst are still clearer than almost anything in Mordhau, which suffers from animation abuse even in basic lobbies. It's just how they chose to build the game.
>but yeah it does feel closer to a fighting game in some aspects (which may or may not be a good thing)
Why would it not be a good thing? Fighting games have figured out the fundamental systems that these types of games need to be built on.
The best systems of both Mordhau and Chiv ARE heavily centered around fighting game fundamentals. The major difference though is that Chiv 2 chose to embrace those mechanics more closely with the universal jab mechanic and more consistent animations while Mordhau undermined the fundamentals with terrible hitbox and animation abuse.
The end result is:
Mordhau - a game that isn't competitive, ruins its presentation when played "right", but it very difficult to master
Chiv 2 - a game that isn't competitive, leans into the medieval combat presentation, has more intuitive gameplay, but a much lower skill ceiling, since you can't spend hundreds of hours mastering broken animations or finding new unblockable exploits.
@@TheRadioSquare if you think you can't break the chiv 2 anims please step into a duelyard
@@Stouty Specifically said that even at their worst, they're much better than the ones in Mord by a wide margin.
You can "break" them in the broadest sense of the world, but the range of motion on them is so small that it's still readable and can't be abused.
And as a side note, it feels like it's largely Mord players trying to pull some janky animation shit in Chiv despite it yielding basically no results due to the different block mechanics.
@@TheRadioSquare that's simply not true, there's far less spinning in mordhau
Hearing you softly click to the next page of your script makes this borderline asmr
Very well put, I loved Mordhau and Chivalry 1 but I was still surprised that Chivalry 2 took me away from Mordhau.
I'd love to play chivalry 2 once it hits steam and the playercount will be balanced. I always wanted to get into Mordhau and even bought it a year or two ago, wish I could play it a bit more before it died :(((
Died in australia maybe, but i can find pages of servers in europe
As a complete casual which started with Mordhau and was even pissed at Chiv 2 during their alpha gameplay which looked like graphic update for Chiv 1 I must say I was completely wrong. When I played the beta I was immiedatly sold on this game. Despite Mordhau having better combat system which looks sounds better from causual perspective is unreadable bullshit since those exchanges doesnt play just like in their promotional stuff with fast accels. Mostly the high skill player will run at you do some carpet drag that will lob off your head and teabag you. Objectives are complete joke in Mordhau since maps doesnt support the modes they are large unninspired and objectives doesnt make any sense from warfare perspective (burning camps from campires in the said camp in Taiga for example). Chiv 2 have more character, announcer and proper factions, different style of weapons, armour, voices and voice lines. Even though TB have broke the game after launch several times (replication glitch, mm killing the lobbies etc.) their game still is superior and I havent touch Mordhau in long time and I think I will never come back. The game doesnt have identity it tries to cater to everyone but in the end its for no one.
Honestly as a console player I have to admit that chivalry 2 should definitely have ranked duels, im a level 231 and trust me the skill ceiling in chivalry 2 can be extremely high. One thing you also never really talked about is how chivalry 2 gives the player more options in combat due to this its really insane how complicated high level combat can be sometimes especially if you look at some of Trix's videos. I don't think you give the combat enough credit where its due
Disagree, Chiv 2 combat is jank along with the movement animations. It is not really that deep compared to Mordhau. It is just that because of the held block, make kicks, charges, and jabs a bit OP that cannot always be countered and allows free hits. Swing manipulation has been totally nerfed depending on the class where some turn caps are very restricted like OH while other classes seem to easily spin to win. Lets not even get into the continued lack of real archer balance even after the supposed nerf. There is no cftp, let alone stacking attack vectors from any direction, you just eat the hit because combat speed was slowed way down to help with hit detection and accuracy which is still an issue.
are you a high level mordhau player aswell or are you just assuming its more in depth than mordhaus high level combat?
@@alpatr0s596 I think this answers your question "as a console player"
@@sirretsnom3329 The fact that you claim jabs and kicks are op already shows that you don't understand the high level gameplay where you rarely even see the pro players get kicked. On top of that there are HEAVY attacks literally just slowed animations of normal swings that can still be dragged. of course the dragging would be reduced other wise thats all high level combat would be which is exactly mordhau. Though I do agree about hit detection and accuracy those are issues that need some fixes.
@@alpatr0s596 I never said the combat is "more in depth" it just gives players more options especially newer ones. Mordhau has much more of a competitive player base
mordhaus fate is so similar to that of chivalry 1, its really jarring how they could let these mistakes happen. same shit, different story. and triternion seems to have made the decision to not make any big gameplay changes anymore as they seem to think they have a solid foundation and just lack polish. when actually, its the exact other way around. its such a pity, the early dev blogs were really promising.
if i could mix'n'match my own slasher game, i would pick:
- content and graphics from chivalry 2
- character customization from mordhau, but with class limitations from chivalry
- chivalry 1 combat, just without the backswinging. this one really hurts to admit, because i really believed mordhaus combat would be a definite improvement.
i don't think including women is going to magically make women play the game.
most women don't play these kinds of games, period. the percentage of women in even popular games is still relatively low.
won't hurt, though.
It would definitely help, to what extent I'm not sure. For proof, compare Valorant's playerbase with CSGO, which have near identical gameplay systems
woman charcters in history games works out great. Worked great for bf v aswell, look how many woman play that game...
Mordhau is history?
Bro the graphics of mordhau is actual ass. Chiv 2 clears Mordhau in almost every aspect, one thing I will say is that Mordhau is less clunky than Chiv 2 and has better customisation. But that’s it, Chivraly 2 feels like something out of a movie, Mordhau feels like ur playing a PC game from 2012. At least on console that’s how it is
Stimpee and Stouty mordhau collab confirmed.
In Chiv2 I just cut off both arms of someone, and he started to beat me with his head. He won...
now i wanna try chiv 2* thank u stouty
Adding support classes would be more impactful for getting women in the game. This is how every guy gets his girlfriend to play games with him.
idk if you play skm in NA they'll try to tell you it already exists
I mean, I have poured over 1500 hours into mordhau so I think I like the genre, and even if I do find the chiv 2 combat a bit clunky, I still think I will pick it up on steam when it releases.
Never has a game made me feel like i wasted my life more than mordhau. Sometimes i look at my playtime and wonder what i could have done with those thousands of hours instead. Its a shame that it had so much potential, but was completely mismanaged from the start.
Once you uninstall and don’t look back it feels good Js.
I was planning to buy mordhau after having played chiv2 for 40 hours and loving it but wanting something more in depth. Is it not worth it? Should I avoid it?
@@Zedzilliot avoid at all costs
@@Zedzilliot
Don't avoid it, people here are jaded. I'm still enjoying it after hundreds of hours.
@@Zedzilliot dont be discouraged. If you aren’t easily frustrated by losing and dying in games, Mordhau will be fine. You don’t have to be good at the game to have fun. Anytime I play Mordhau, I find myself laughing my ass off. For me, it’s all good fun. I don’t know about other people, though.
Imo as someone who started on mordhau but now mains chiv 2, chiv 2 is just so much better simply because of the fun factor. Mordhau has this skill ceiling aka abusing glitched movement thats not supposed to be in the game and isn’t intended to be the meta but it is. It makes it impossible to kill a high ranked player as a newby. At least in chiv 2 the combat is more intuitive that you can quickly pick up on patterns and possibly get a lucky kill on a very high ranked player. Idk its just more accessible and thats what this genre desperately needs.
Abusing glitch movements...that's sounds 100% like Chivalry
@@mcmerry2846 lol yea sure bud go play mordhau they have vidoes all about broken hit boxes maybe your just trash ad chiv 2 mcassy
@@mcmerry2846 at least it’s not in chiv 2 though
I love mordhau invasion, but the objectives are so poorly made. I don't understand why they don't take any player feedback in simple changes that can have a huge positive effect on the game play.
4:14 NO! THE HOLY CRUSADE IT'S A THING FOR MEN. Females will destroy the immersion. its a videogame yes, but does that mean that a game shouldnt have a "realistic" setting anymore? Do i complain if i play a videogame set in the feudal japan and i cant play as a Spaniard? No because its accurate, i like it more.
I really want to prefer chiv over mordhau but I cannot handle how clunky chiv feels to me. Mordhau just needs to do a few things and I think it could be real competition again. For example overhaul 3v3, one idea I've had is a map where all 6 people are split into 3 1v1 rooms to start that slowly open to to everyone else's fight. That may not be the best idea but I just want something that makes 3v3 more dynamic as I feel with given love it could be the best game mode to be in between casual and competitive
I have 600 hours in Mordhau. I've had my fun with it. It's one of my favourite games, but i'm gonna move back onto the Chiv series.
Nothing will beat that first month when Mordhau came out. So good
There will be bigger things to come, undoubtedly
Yoooo Crossroads is fun as hell. On Invasion not so much but otherwise this map is one of the coolest and most versatile. There are like entire ecosystems around that tree and/or the tower. Flavored with lots of horses and the best rockthrowing positions in the game.
each to their own but at its release it was a huge drop in quality vs a map like Taiga
@@Stouty You do know that there are female players right? as not as many but still there is a few, like I remember being in regiments for Mount Blade warband: Napoleonic wars (DLC) and on teamspeak there were 1 or 2 girls that were in some regiments. and same with Chiv 2
@@michaelhawkins7389 yup, 1 or 2
I will argue against the idea that a games popularity depends on including genders. Most of us enjoy chiv and mord for the realism and I just have to say that a female knight while not impossible it is definitely not realistic or even slightly probable. That being said it doesn't matter if half the population is female the majority of females do not prefer the things men do just as the majority of males do not prefer the things women do. The target audience, the most popular demographic is male for these types of video games so they should focus their marketing towards men. It's not a big deal but I wouldn't say including gender variety in a game is going to matter.
You could have made the same argument for CSGO yet look how many women now play Valorant
@@Stouty yet csgo constantly has an active player base no matter what, sure it's not booming but it has periods where it will spike. Also realism it's kind of a plus for certain players who like it. I think games like valorant are fine yet they always start big and fizzle out in the end it's a trend I notice alot. Valorant has a very cartoonish style of game it attracts a wide variety of people young and old but in the long run they always seem to drop off. Games like overwatch, fortnite, apex, etc feel fine when gender specified characters are included because it lacks the realism and falls in line more with the cartoonish category. Not saying women in chiv/mord is a big deal for me but I can see why certain players would be mildly upset. Chiv/mord (chiv mostly) have a dedicated player base, that is their target audience and they should focus on them rather than set ambitions to become a largely globally played game because when that happens fans and the community feel like they start to lose something special, feels like plandering to a large audience for money and when that happens (going mainstream) you gain alot of unwanted attention from outside groups. Hope that makes sense.
@@Stouty Here is a summary example I'll give. Imagine why you enjoy playing csgo it's got a simplistic combat system, it's very straight forward and has a realistic theme. Now imagine if they were to start pandering to get a larger audience, they add jetpacks, cloaking devices, flashy laser weapons, custom skins like clown suits and t-rexes. Just to top it off for a worse case scenario they start adding lgbt stuff to the game aswell. The dedicated player base would be rightfully upset as that is a big change to their community. The point is once you start aiming to be a globally popular game you start to create a beacon for alot of unwanted attention it sort of breaks the community built around the game. Since their will be overly popular games that hit the global market they all hit big but eventually start to die at some point. Something eventually will take the place of valorant and that something will be replaced aswell. Chivalry I think will always maintain a consistent community.
@@dirk1998 all of this typing to get ratio by a single sentence yikes also your afraid of change lol
@@bababab6906 it really doesn't matter to me, my point still stands.
Still waiting for it to be on steam, nowadays I have 0 urge to go competitive anymore (don't think I'll ever participate in tournaments again). Especially with long work hours all I wanna do nowadays is just grab a beer and have a giggle with the lads. Gave me some good insights and will buy this on steam, cheers pal.
What are those team battles you're playing at the end of the video? They look like 3v3 or 5v5 matches and I need to play them...
arena mode
@@Stouty does it still exist? I can't find it as an option.
@@parkerhardy8398 yup
the competition between chivalry and mordhau is like the competiton between stouty and a level 3 default knight
But listen.. The reason i liked chivalry was the toxic and unforgiving community.. When you died you were being called names at the same time! It was very authentic ecperience in a way!
5:19 yes, a lot of the things that made chiv 1 truly great were basically accidental and impossible to disentangle from the things that were fundamentally broken about it. there will never be another game like chiv 1 unfortunately
youre absolutely right. The question of the First Person Slasher genre boils down to who will make a game with as much accicentall fun mechanics as Chiv 1 imho
I think it would be cool if chiv 2 had a bit more customization
3:49 women are in this game? Def not buying it now. Thank god mordhau never added them I would never play again
was playing chiv 2 since alpha in 2020 and still am, while i dropped mord in 4 months
Stouty amazing video. The first time I ever saw one of your videos I thought you sounded and looked very similar to Harry Potter. Now every time I watch one of your videos I like to imagine it's Harry giving me these gaming tips.
Spot on review and comparison
MORDHAU = bearded man
Chiv 2 = child
Mordhau = virgin
Chiv 2 = Chad
I love mordhau so much, but aside from all its other flaws, I have never seen a game struggle to use the internet as much as mordhau lmao
Chiv should look into fixing their fucked up animations.
They STILL haven't fixed the walking animation. So glad I refunded the game. Everyone still looks like they're sliding around on the ground.
I mean just look at it.
coming from someone who went back to chiv 1 after mordhau for competitive TO, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed chiv 2, a dedicated pub game. Pub in chiv 2 when there's no one on, pug in chiv 1 when the boys are on. Oh and load up mordhau every once in a while for literally just the armory LOL.
Overwatch has more female players than other FPS for the same reason League has many female players.
It is NOT because of the female characters but because there's dedicated "Support" roles that require you to do mechanically very little while still being "impactful".
If champions like Soraka or Mercy didn't exist for the purpose they have in the game (and not if they have a PP or not), most of women wouldn't touch the game.
If every character was DPS, and it was more like COD , almost no girl would play Overwatch , regardless of the diversity.
If a female cast is all you needed to attract women, Fighting games , whose character rooster is usually nearly half female, would have droves of women playing them, yet it's 99.9% male.
Women aren't going to play more uber competitive, uber toxic sword pvp game, regardless of the custimization you add to it.
dalooded, now explain why valorant has like 40% women despite it being fundamentally csgo, "support" doesn't actually exist in that game before you try and make that same argument
@@Stouty I wouldn’t believe that 40% mark.
It would mean literally every 2nd player you play with is a woman which anyone who plays know obviously isn’t the case.
The game does have fairly a lot of women playing though, sure, but it’s for other factors.
It’s far more beginner friendly than cs:go or siege, the graphics are the least demanding so any girl with a school laptop could play it, the game is free and more.
Also Valorant came out at the explosion of the pandemic and has a lot of of a cross player base with league of legends where a lot of women play already (relatively speaking).
Like I said before, if what you’re saying is true more women would be playing fighting games but they clearly don’t.
It’s about gameplay accessibility and personal taste(setting,aesthetic, genre) not diversity.
@@DaniTheHero it almost is like that in Valorant, csgo is also f2p and existed during the pandemic, I'm sure the percentage of female players is higher in fighting games then mordhau. If you don't think playable women makes a difference you are operating on a different plane to reality
Sorry but i believe that from "a top down perspective" as you put it, Age of Empires is clearly superior to both games by far. And you pretend to be a gamer smh my head...
the reveal video for this long con will be glorious
Chiv 2 + mordhua combat+I'd buy that for a dollar. Sad to see (but expected)Torn bummer settled for the clunky anims ,floaty movement and sliding all over the place. If chiv 2 had chiv 1 s combat with backswings removed = more players ,potential for comp and more chances to stay alive in the long run. But as it is now,it s just aimed for console 'gamers' and people who game on their phone while taking a dump.
for the casual audience it is serviceable
You lost me at
>Boys club
>Is a problem
the problem is dead game
@@Stouty lol at you being so autistic you thought that adding playable she-knights was totes going to save your niche competitive medieval slasher game. absolute brainrot
What´s up Stouty, Hare here. I just got Chiv 2 this morning and couldnt stand the combat animations, for me Mordhau looks way more realistic. But i gotta admit the battle mode for Chiv 2 is vastly superior, frontline in mordhau has become a joke since year and a half. Hope to see you soon in VK! I´ve been practicing with Phat and want to try out with you :P Cheers as always!
Good video highlighting both of the melee game's flaws & positive attributes Stout.
It's a shame that Chiv 2's combat isn't as polished as Mordhau's and there seems to be little to no focus on making the game more appealing to competitive sided players. It's a pretty well rounded game with stunning map designs and interesting teambased gamemode concepts, but if it had any sort of competitive side to it like its predecessor the game would have killed the Mordhau playerbase entirely on release and we would all be playing Chiv 2 right now & thats the biggest mistake they made with the game was to cater only to casuals in mind...
Egg, egg, egg
@@Stouty Raging Rex 2 my arch nemesis....
I think you are very wrong about voice lines. They are fare superior in mordhau for characterization and laughtbility. Chiv2 voice lines are anonymous
i think your hate for mordhau has blinded you a bit. if mordhau gets their grip and be able to make maps and atmosphere and objectives like chiv, then it's literally no competition. Right now, yes, I'd recommend chvi2 to casuals. Since I like to sweat, I'd choose mordhau.
Do you think it's likely - knowing what we do about Mordhau's map output - that we're going to get significantly more maps of a higher quality any time soon?
@@Stouty Prolly not, but again it's for different audiences. Casuals go to chiv 2. If you're willing to sweat a little bit and like a bit of torture, go for mordhau.
You can definitely sweat in Chiv 2, just saying...
@@Mipamyanmiro it's not as significant or apparent than mordhau. in mordhau you can really see the sweat. sometimes you can drown in em
@@catedoge3206 Same in Chiv 2. You can see them trying to use every move at once trying to get you.
chivalry 2 is slow and has near zero customisation
that alone is enough to dismiss it out of hand. bottom line is I bought both of them around the same time, and as a noob to both I found mordhau infinitely more engaging, chivalry I found mostly dull and gave up on after about 6 hours.
Chiv 2 has almost too must customisation for me to dig into as you have to customise 4 classes 3 times (masons, agatha, ffa) whereas Mordhau gives you all the options in one loadout
@@Stouty yes, except importantly mordhau's customisation extends significantly into actual gameplay, whereas from what I've seen of Chiv2, you're restricted to the class roles, which I immediately found really restrictive and unfun.
as a noob in mordhau, even if I'm bad, I can pick up a bow, use siege equipment, or just mess around with beartraps and other shenanigans. the customisable gameplay elements make it more dynamic and interesting to actually engage with, whereas Chiv2 feels like it's asking you to limit your horizons and expectations right out the gate, which just feels disappointing, especially when playing them alongside eachother.
quality of your vids just get better and better!
Mordhau failed to keep the 500k players on launch and absolutely wasted most resources on balancing weapons by a few ms each patchy (which probably just 1% of playerbase at that time cared about) instead of delivering more maps, obj etc. I enjoyed it nontheless. Just after about 800 hours and no real ambition to grind past diamond the gameplay went pretty stale. Cronching Pub servers as a big fish in a small bowl or getting cronched on elitist duel servers as a small fish in a large bowl instead of fun objectives is getting boring really fast. At some point I just helped noob archers by building some shit for them as engi to get atleast some sort of different gameplay. The whole game engine of mordhau is great. It is just so much lost potential as nothing is really done with it.
I remember desperately wanting to play Mordhau, and seeing Chivalry 2 as a substitute since I'm on Xbox.
I was wrong.
idk I actually refunded chivalry bc I just like the combat more in Mordhau. BY A LOT. i still think it's not perfect but...
I just don't care about lore, or fancy maps. yea it's cool but all I really want to do is win against other players with my own customized characters. I wish the devs just tried harder. I wanted to play chiv bc I was getting sick about a few things in mordhau but I think I got sick after about 10 hours or so. I won and lost against players with very high levels on duel servers and I dont know why. I want a system where if I put in 500hours I will win against the 50hour guy 99/100 times. I just dont like chives combat system and since that's all I care about in these games I have to say no to chiv2.
But one point I do wana give chiv in the chiv vs mordhau debate is that if you start playing now the future health of the game looks better development wise... I mean... The devs dont seem to have an asshole.... ehehehhehem *crush* ehehhehehem....
the gameplay looks like you're on autopilot. i tried to like chiv2, but it just feels like a super basic game made for people who wanna spam lmb and still perform well
If I'm making it look easy that's a compliment lol but it's also very easy to get farmed as I know first hand
Lmb being a viable option is a good thing for casual players but it can be easily countered, as far as I can see.
it's still surprising that if I go into nuggets duel kingdom there's still an alive and thriving community
Only thing I wish was different with this game... fully destructive castles.
Since many people really hate horses, mortar and catas in mordhau due to hating dying out of nowhere with little counterplay, what would be a good way to add force multipliers in a melee slasher like mordhau or chiv? I can see how crossroads mortar tower is a bad design because if a group of people bunkers down on it they can deny a lot of area indefinitely. Catapults too are often usable from inside the death zone. ATM fire arrows and fire bombs are usually the only possible counter to catas and even those are countered by repair hammer and/or smoke bombs creating this boring scenario of one player hammering cata and the other shooting arrows until he runs out of them.
just make them killstreak rewards
@@dj_vanx So only best players can use them? If you give killstreak rewards to best players you will increase the snowball, if you give them to the worse team you will create a dumb scenario of "trying to win but not too much to not give enemy force multipliers"
I'm just having a hard time understanding why Torn Banner won't hire a competent animator. The animations are generally garbage, and it's not due to network issues.
adding women character to game = more women players? I think not.
that's literally how it works, see valorant, overwatch and the fgc
@@Stouty It's hard to add female players when female gamers don't care about melee slashers in the first place.
@@BrettRG I know women that play Mordhau, sounds like a baseless claim to me
Game is amazing while there was fighting going on in front of me I saw a red dude just sitting so I just joined him and we were both sitting while watching everyone fight
Mordhau is basically dead and only the devs can be responsible for that. If the devs cared about Mord as much as tombanner cares about chiv 2, Mordhau would most definitely be the best game in the genre. Crush and his lackies are getting too comfortable letting their game die all because crush is an ego maniac and can't seem to do his job correctly. I am an OG Mordhau player and its sad to see the game dead but the only people to blame are the lazy developers who take half a year to push out one minor update with one mediocre map. I tried playing chiv 2 and was repulsed by how terrible the animations and overcomplicated combat system was. Chiv 2 overall is a better for people who are true to the genre but Mordhau is just much more fun. Unfortunately Mordhau is getting less and less fun with the egomaniac players and the broken mechanics the devs refuse to acknowledge and fix. Mordhau has been suffering from the same issues for over 2 years and its honestly very sad. I hope eastern invasion 2 comes out soon before the game is dead dead and Stouty hopefully with your friend in the dev team the game can see some actual change to just make it fun again.