valley centertainment isn’t a mall - its know as a retail park normally here - the school trip may have been going’s to the cinema or the play centre there, it depends what they were going for and their age - it is mostly entertainment and food here. rotherham park gate isn’t a mall either - its a retail park too - its a lot larger then valley centertainment and includes a lot more normal shops as-well as food but not really many entertainment places. we only have one main ‘mall’ that we have in sheffield - its meadowhall shopping centre - you went past here on the tram train but didn’t get off - this has all food, shopping and entertainment.
As you say, it is not really a South Yorkshire Supertram, but a Sheffield and Rotherham tram with a bit of light rail. Great video! Thanks for the information.
The bad frequency could be down to lack of units for the tram-Train as to run a 2tph service requires 4 tram-trains and there is only a fleet of 7 and other 3 are used on tram only routes.
Thank you for visiting! Supertram has... 7 Class 399 Tram Trains - powered by 3x 145kW motors with one idle trailing bogie. 25 Siemens Duewag Sueprtrams (24 in service currently, with 105 soon to be returned to service this year as its almost rebuilt) - powered by 4x 277kW motors on all 4 bogies. All trams will be refurbished by 2027 with the Siemens fleet being replaced from around 2032, as theyll be around 40 years old then. They're all around 31 - 32 years old now having been built in the very early 90's
I lived in Sheffield during the years when they were reinstating the tramway - it was hell for the car drivers but the trams are great. Thanks for sharing your journey on it. Yes I agree it is not the South Yorkshire Tram as I also lived in Doncaster and it never ran that far.
Fascinating choice! Your museum tramway shots lead me to ask if you went to Crich - definitely one for the list. Apropos dying malls in South Yorkshire, rumour has it Meadowhall itself was designed with a view to turning part of it into a prison if it didn't succeed - thereapart, taking schoolkids to a dying mall means they don't lost so easily. Thanks for finding the bits UK transit tubers miss \m/
Fascinating blog, it's where i went to college. The Rotherham train station used to be in Masborough (about a 15 mins walk from the centre, but they moved into the new location around the mid 80s. Parkgate is more a retail outlet, Meadowhall is more like a mall and us huge inside. it first opened at the end of the 80s. The trams came much later. My pops remember the old trolly buses all around Yorkshire, Mexborough, Rotherham, Parkgate, Sheffield, etc, in the 1950s and 60s.
They'll be somewhat similar to ours I expect, but better assembled based on the requirements of the operator whereas ours were already built by order for another operator who I believe didn't go ahead, so they were bought cheaper 😀
On of the reasons I could come up why the Sheffield SuperTram doesn’t run more on national rail, is the lack of existing overhead catenary in the national rail network around Sheffield. Many German TramTrain use the already electrified infrastructure of Deutsch Bahn, so the Trams support the 600-750 V DC overhead electrification which is usually common on Trams, and the 15kV 16.7 Hz AC electrification of Deutsche Bahn. So here in Germany, you build some tram platforms alongside the tracks and your pay the fee to use the electricity and track’s of DB. In Sheffield, they have to build the entire electrification system from scratch to provide Tram Train service. This could make in not economical to expand.
On the Network Rail side, they still run at 750V DC but this can be switched to 25kW AC to support other trains along the route if they ever become electrified with OHLE equipment in the future.
The Sheffield TramTrains are equipped to operate on 25kV AC as well as 750V DC. However, although the construction of the overhead line on the Network Rail tracks has 25kV insulation and clearances it's all powered at 750V DC. If in the future Network rail extends electrification to the Sheffield area that could change.
The National Rail route Sheffield - Meadowhall is exceptionally busy as it forms part of the Cross Country National Rail Network. Fitting Cross Country / Local NR / Transpennine and Tram Train in is a challenge. Meadowhall is the second busiest station - in terms of passenger numbers - in England.
but the tram train is running on national rail trackage for under a mile, it can’t be that hard to fit an extra one in between two trains, right? also Meadowhall is the second busiest in Sheffield, i’d imagine one of the London terminals is second busiest in the whole UK!
@@honajtransit Maybe I jumped in too soon without checking the layouts. I agree the use of NR track is small but in order to get trains through without stopping and starting at signals there needs to be a clear path , based on braking distances and signal / junction locations so that trains don't get held letting a tram train on the track then waiting for it to get off the track. I suspect this is the reason that more paths cannot be assigned to the Tram Train. Maybe a degree of potential conflict with movements in the Holmes Jcn / Rotherham Jcn. area? Ah statistics!! I'm confident that London Termini have more entries and exits that Meadowhall station I would think Liverpool St. and Waterloo top that list. The statistic I saw related to the number of passenger entries and exits AND train changes - so - as with all stats - the devil will be in the detail. I guess you know about " railmaponline " a great source of rail geography in the UK. You may also be interested in " opentraintimes " the Maps section. This shows live trains from the UK train describer network, where it is connected. (all those need a dot c 0 m on the end of course)
@@honajtransit Maybe I jumped in too soon without checking the layouts. I agree the use of NR track is small but in order to get trains through without stopping and starting at signals there needs to be a clear path , based on braking distances and signal / junction locations so that trains don't get held letting a tram train on the track then waiting for it to get off the track. I suspect this is the reason that more paths cannot be assigned to the Tram Train. Maybe a degree of potential conflict with movements in the Holmes Jcn / Rotherham Jcn. area? Ah statistics!! I'm confident that London Termini have more entries and exits that Meadowhall station I would think Liverpool St. and Waterloo top that list. The statistic I saw related to the number of passenger entries and exits AND train changes - so - as with all stats - the devil will be in the detail.
Also, sorry if I am behind, but was the train trip between London and Sheffield released yet? Is it going to be? Because that is a fairly long train ride.
Politely the pronunciation of Rotherham cracked me up, as a northerner from Rotherham ive allways pronounced it rovrum😅 But love the video, keep making more
As I understand it, one of the differences between "light rail" in the US and most "trams" in Europe is that European trams are usually more like streetcars, usually circulating around a downtown business core. But from the scenery out the windows, this looks like it is more a suburban system, closer to a US light rail. Would that be a fair assessment?
yes, that is the case, but "light rail" in the US is what europeans call "tram-trains", but "tram-trains" can also mean actual tram-trains, like this (or german-style ones)
Trams in Europe basically always cover both downtowns and suburbs. Even newer systems like the ones in France and the UK do that. They do mostly run on, next to, or in the median of streets though.
The citylink vehicles are very flawed. Theyre so unreliable, one of the units 399207 chucked its track brake at a random building on West Street. The network rail section is also 750v dc with a small neutral section inbetween.
@@JRWilson242 I remember one of my friends who drives the things says that the software is useful yet very annoying at times. There was a fault a while ago that made one of the 'mirrors' work after closing the doors
Indeed, better being under public controlled and with Sheffield Government, also we'll start to see improvements and expansion on the network, Where is the pink/orange/green routes? Nope just one extension, (tram-train) with just two stops, how embarrassing isn't it, so to compare to other cities in the UK, have a look at Metro Link, they have plenty of upgrades over the years including red service (Deansgate-Castlefield to/from Trafford Centre) with 6 new stops, but Sheffield only as 2 and a half new stops. When tram-train opened it was every 10 minutes, but since COVID, it's not had the same ridership so the frequencies of the service reduced due to more people are shopping online so now the Purple is every hour from every 20min peak / 40min off peak, Blue is every 30 minutes and upto an hour but used to be every 10min peak/30min off peak, With Yellow, I believe it's every 20 minutes but used to be every 10min peak and 5 minutes at evening rush hour and special events / 20min off peak, with Black route is every 30 minutes but used to be every 10 minutes from 9am to 6pm after was 30 minutes. if my memory is correct.
It is a tram with extra features that means it is allowed to run on Network Rail infrastructure. The name tram-train is annoying to me though, since trams are a type of train 😂.
A tram-train is a tram that also shares tracks with heavy rail trains. It’s more of a continental Europe and American term, but also sometimes the word tram-train is interchangeable in Europe with what Americans would call light rail.
Manchester does not have a tram-train network, they have two interurban-esque lines (one of which will be the subject of an upcoming video), but tram-trains - defined as vehicles that run both on heavy rail tracks and on the street - do not exist in Manchester
both of those are not tram-trains, they are interurban-esque light rail/tram lines, but not tram-trains (as they do not share tracks with heavy rail vehicles!)
valley centertainment isn’t a mall - its know as a retail park normally here - the school trip may have been going’s to the cinema or the play centre there, it depends what they were going for and their age - it is mostly entertainment and food here.
rotherham park gate isn’t a mall either - its a retail park too - its a lot larger then valley centertainment and includes a lot more normal shops as-well as food but not really many entertainment places.
we only have one main ‘mall’ that we have in sheffield - its meadowhall shopping centre - you went past here on the tram train but didn’t get off - this has all food, shopping and entertainment.
As you say, it is not really a South Yorkshire Supertram, but a Sheffield and Rotherham tram with a bit of light rail. Great video! Thanks for the information.
@@clivebroadhead4381 the South yorkshire tram also goes into Derbyshire!
The bad frequency could be down to lack of units for the tram-Train as to run a 2tph service requires 4 tram-trains and there is only a fleet of 7 and other 3 are used on tram only routes.
then… use all 7 tram trains on the tram train route
@@honajtransit3 units are kept on tram only routes to support our older Siemens fleet when any of the 25 may incur downtime.
The trains were ordered with Vossloh, Stadler bought the vehicle business from Vossloh during the running order,
Thank you for visiting!
Supertram has...
7 Class 399 Tram Trains - powered by 3x 145kW motors with one idle trailing bogie.
25 Siemens Duewag Sueprtrams (24 in service currently, with 105 soon to be returned to service this year as its almost rebuilt) - powered by 4x 277kW motors on all 4 bogies.
All trams will be refurbished by 2027 with the Siemens fleet being replaced from around 2032, as theyll be around 40 years old then. They're all around 31 - 32 years old now having been built in the very early 90's
Hehe, wales is catching up, we should be having tram trains running soon in Cardiff (the tram bit being a dubious at the moment).
indeed! hopefully the next time I’m in the UK that will be open, and I can go ride it!
I lived in Sheffield during the years when they were reinstating the tramway - it was hell for the car drivers but the trams are great. Thanks for sharing your journey on it. Yes I agree it is not the South Yorkshire Tram as I also lived in Doncaster and it never ran that far.
Fascinating choice! Your museum tramway shots lead me to ask if you went to Crich - definitely one for the list. Apropos dying malls in South Yorkshire, rumour has it Meadowhall itself was designed with a view to turning part of it into a prison if it didn't succeed - thereapart, taking schoolkids to a dying mall means they don't lost so easily. Thanks for finding the bits UK transit tubers miss \m/
i did not go to any tram museum, these were all taken off wikipedia!
seems like the UK and US both have quite a few dying malls!
@@honajtransit all too true, even in London \m/
Fascinating blog, it's where i went to college. The Rotherham train station used to be in Masborough (about a 15 mins walk from the centre, but they moved into the new location around the mid 80s. Parkgate is more a retail outlet, Meadowhall is more like a mall and us huge inside. it first opened at the end of the 80s. The trams came much later. My pops remember the old trolly buses all around Yorkshire, Mexborough, Rotherham, Parkgate, Sheffield, etc, in the 1950s and 60s.
Transport for Wales are getting Class 398 Tram-trains from Stadler that would be used in the Cardiff area I think.
yes i saw wales’s tram-train is starting soon! hopefully i’ll ride it next time i’m in the UK!
They'll be somewhat similar to ours I expect, but better assembled based on the requirements of the operator whereas ours were already built by order for another operator who I believe didn't go ahead, so they were bought cheaper 😀
On of the reasons I could come up why the Sheffield SuperTram doesn’t run more on national rail, is the lack of existing overhead catenary in the national rail network around Sheffield.
Many German TramTrain use the already electrified infrastructure of Deutsch Bahn, so the Trams support the 600-750 V DC overhead electrification which is usually common on Trams, and the 15kV 16.7 Hz AC electrification of Deutsche Bahn.
So here in Germany, you build some tram platforms alongside the tracks and your pay the fee to use the electricity and track’s of DB.
In Sheffield, they have to build the entire electrification system from scratch to provide Tram Train service.
This could make in not economical to expand.
ah, that is a fair point, electrification tends to be expensive
On the Network Rail side, they still run at 750V DC but this can be switched to 25kW AC to support other trains along the route if they ever become electrified with OHLE equipment in the future.
The Sheffield TramTrains are equipped to operate on 25kV AC as well as 750V DC. However, although the construction of the overhead line on the Network Rail tracks has 25kV insulation and clearances it's all powered at 750V DC. If in the future Network rail extends electrification to the Sheffield area that could change.
New subscriber here, Brilliant video sir, do the Manchester metrolink next...oh and the Glasgow Subway!
stay tuned for next week!
@@honajtransit hurrah!!!!
The National Rail route Sheffield - Meadowhall is exceptionally busy as it forms part of the Cross Country National Rail Network. Fitting Cross Country / Local NR / Transpennine and Tram Train in is a challenge. Meadowhall is the second busiest station - in terms of passenger numbers - in England.
but the tram train is running on national rail trackage for under a mile, it can’t be that hard to fit an extra one in between two trains, right?
also Meadowhall is the second busiest in Sheffield, i’d imagine one of the London terminals is second busiest in the whole UK!
@@honajtransit Maybe I jumped in too soon without checking the layouts. I agree the use of NR track is small but in order to get trains through without stopping and starting at signals there needs to be a clear path , based on braking distances and signal / junction locations so that trains don't get held letting a tram train on the track then waiting for it to get off the track. I suspect this is the reason that more paths cannot be assigned to the Tram Train. Maybe a degree of potential conflict with movements in the Holmes Jcn / Rotherham Jcn. area?
Ah statistics!! I'm confident that London Termini have more entries and exits that Meadowhall station I would think Liverpool St. and Waterloo top that list. The statistic I saw related to the number of passenger entries and exits AND train changes - so - as with all stats - the devil will be in the detail.
I guess you know about " railmaponline " a great source of rail geography in the UK. You may also be interested in " opentraintimes " the Maps section. This shows live trains from the UK train describer network, where it is connected. (all those need a dot c 0 m on the end of course)
@@honajtransit Maybe I jumped in too soon without checking the layouts. I agree the use of NR track is small but in order to get trains through without stopping and starting at signals there needs to be a clear path , based on braking distances and signal / junction locations so that trains don't get held letting a tram train on the track then waiting for it to get off the track. I suspect this is the reason that more paths cannot be assigned to the Tram Train. Maybe a degree of potential conflict with movements in the Holmes Jcn / Rotherham Jcn. area?
Ah statistics!! I'm confident that London Termini have more entries and exits that Meadowhall station I would think Liverpool St. and Waterloo top that list. The statistic I saw related to the number of passenger entries and exits AND train changes - so - as with all stats - the devil will be in the detail.
Also, sorry if I am behind, but was the train trip between London and Sheffield released yet? Is it going to be? Because that is a fairly long train ride.
no, i didn't film a video of that lol, it would be rather a boring video what with me being tired and hungry the whole way up
After watching this I want to ride this train! It’s so futuristic!!,!,!,,!,😂😂😂😂the inside looks like the MBTA bus!
"Hello! I am- I'm at- I'm at Sheffield station" I can't be the only one who realised this
what?
You passed through my home town on the way to Sheffield. Kettering
You travel some unusual train lines that I don't think any other Rail Fan You Tuber explores! These are some great unusual places!
yeah, exploring weird things, whether abandoned railroads or oddities like this, is kinda my niche on transit youtube!
Politely the pronunciation of Rotherham cracked me up, as a northerner from Rotherham ive allways pronounced it rovrum😅 But love the video, keep making more
I love the northern accent, but it is so confusing at times!
As I understand it, one of the differences between "light rail" in the US and most "trams" in Europe is that European trams are usually more like streetcars, usually circulating around a downtown business core. But from the scenery out the windows, this looks like it is more a suburban system, closer to a US light rail. Would that be a fair assessment?
yes, that is the case, but "light rail" in the US is what europeans call "tram-trains", but "tram-trains" can also mean actual tram-trains, like this (or german-style ones)
Trams in Europe basically always cover both downtowns and suburbs. Even newer systems like the ones in France and the UK do that. They do mostly run on, next to, or in the median of streets though.
Thought that the bee network or Manchester metrolink had tram trains as they run to altricham
those aren’t tram trains as they don’t share tracks with a heavy rail line (although i did make a video on that, it will publish in 2 weeks!)
The citylink vehicles are very flawed. Theyre so unreliable, one of the units 399207 chucked its track brake at a random building on West Street. The network rail section is also 750v dc with a small neutral section inbetween.
Mainly because they're heavily software based but yeah what happened with 207 was very random
@@JRWilson242 I remember one of my friends who drives the things says that the software is useful yet very annoying at times. There was a fault a while ago that made one of the 'mirrors' work after closing the doors
Indeed, better being under public controlled and with Sheffield Government, also we'll start to see improvements and expansion on the network, Where is the pink/orange/green routes? Nope just one extension, (tram-train) with just two stops, how embarrassing isn't it, so to compare to other cities in the UK, have a look at Metro Link, they have plenty of upgrades over the years including red service (Deansgate-Castlefield to/from Trafford Centre) with 6 new stops, but Sheffield only as 2 and a half new stops.
When tram-train opened it was every 10 minutes, but since COVID, it's not had the same ridership so the frequencies of the service reduced due to more people are shopping online so now the Purple is every hour from every 20min peak / 40min off peak, Blue is every 30 minutes and upto an hour but used to be every 10min peak/30min off peak, With Yellow, I believe it's every 20 minutes but used to be every 10min peak and 5 minutes at evening rush hour and special events / 20min off peak, with Black route is every 30 minutes but used to be every 10 minutes from 9am to 6pm after was 30 minutes. if my memory is correct.
Don't know why it gets called a tram-train as it's still a tram whether it's running on the street or not
It is a tram with extra features that means it is allowed to run on Network Rail infrastructure. The name tram-train is annoying to me though, since trams are a type of train 😂.
A tram-train is a tram that also shares tracks with heavy rail trains. It’s more of a continental Europe and American term, but also sometimes the word tram-train is interchangeable in Europe with what Americans would call light rail.
@@honajtransit Normally something like the tram-train would be known as light rail here in the UK
5:58 it's called a shopping centre
mall, shopping center, same difference
Great UK videos. However, I think the music should be less Gershwin and more British. 😂
first tram-train network is actually manchester
Manchester does not have a tram-train network, they have two interurban-esque lines (one of which will be the subject of an upcoming video), but tram-trains - defined as vehicles that run both on heavy rail tracks and on the street - do not exist in Manchester
@@honajtransit Correct.
im not sure that is the only one because theres one in croydon , london
both of those are not tram-trains, they are interurban-esque light rail/tram lines, but not tram-trains (as they do not share tracks with heavy rail vehicles!)
Other than the tram train the super tram sucks it only runs every 30 minutes.
no, the yellow line ran every 10, but the tram train is kind of a wasted opportunity
That's not correct.