Jeremiah, please do an episode explaining different gear ratios on differentials, transfer cases and transmissions; how different parts affect the ratios; and how it affects speed and acceleration.
As always volvo is forgotten. I tested the volvo s90 t8 when it came out in 2017 and got amazed by it's supercharged and turbocharged four cylinder engine, first engine of it's kind i saw and drove. It is a beast
@@dropitlikeitshot815 Indeed. I'm pretty sure most people don't even know Polestar, the maker of the NFS Heat Cover Car, the 1 Hero Edition, is a subsidiary of Volvo.
@@dropitlikeitshot815 unfortunately after 2011-12 volvo after phasing out ford parts under ford ownership transitioned to the Chinese company Greely holdings. They're not exactly swedish anymore I don't think
I absolutely love the Delta S4. It’s just so monstrous, wild, uncontrollable, blasphemic. It was so fast (0-100 in 2.7 second on gravel) that even Henri Toivonen, the legend himself, was barely able to drive it.
@@chir0pter From what i know all manufacturers are using turbos with antilag system fitted, rather than twincharged. They're producing "only" around 380hp but they're FAR more responsive. Add in sophisticated suspension system (watch how stable modern WRC cars land after a big jump), modern tyres and better understanding on aerodynamics, you have cars that can eat Group B for breakfast around a rally stage.
Detroit (and I think Cummins) made twin charged engines in the last 30 years. The Detroit had 12L+ of displacement and I believe the force induction system was making like 75lbs of boost. The horse power numbers weren’t particularly impressive, but they produced well north of 1,000ft-lbs of torque
Dillon, yes Detroit considered them to be NA, but a Non turbo version still made pressure slightly above ambient, something in the range of 1-2psi. By a technicality that would class it as forced induction,even though the blower is only actually there to force the exhaust gasses out.
The 2 strokes back in the 60s and 70s had a turbo and a blower, not sure if the blower actually added power tho...I know the cylinder sleeves had the exhaust ports at the bottom and the blower blew the smoke out at the bottom of the stroke, then it filled it with air(so yeah it added power) and fired on the upstroke, still favorite motor so smoky so loud so high reving. Love those bad boys.
Every Volvo since 2018 has a 2.0l 4cyl with a turbo, and the higher trim option are all twin charged. So you can get a mid size sedan with a 350ish hp twin charged engine. And if you get the hybrid it's like 400hp with the mechanical drive to the front wheels, and electric driving the rear.
With the S60 T8, you get high pitched sound constantly. Why? Braking produces high pitched sound from the regenerative system and accelerating produces high pitched sound from the supercharger. Have an S60 and that's just a weird part about it
@@ryanm4319 lol not an ad, just mentioning a whole manufacturer that uses the same twin charge system that they were talking about but didn't mention it at all
Yo I just wanna thank the entire Donut team for putting out this amazing content for years on end. I literally wouldn't know where I'd be car knowledge wise without you people. The editing, the topics, the way of presenting them, everything. I mean, how do you even come up with some of these topics? That one JDM van that's getting banned, this right here, fucking BOATS?! You just can't not love and appreciate the stuff all y'all create!
I feel the same. Mad how much more certain parts of a car make sense to me. I knew where they went and for what reason, but I never knew how they worked as much as this.
Been doing 'full compound' twincharging on 4ag engine since 2007. The whole rev range powerband is awesome! Torque forever. Mines only budget diy setup, but works awesome.
I remember way back in the early 00s some madlad twincharged an AE86 with a true bypass setup. Once the rpm got high enough that the turbo output more volume than the supercharger could handle, it bypassed the supercharger. I want to say he even setup a clutch mechanism like an A/C compressor to remove the parasitic loss of the supercharger. The plumbing on it was absolutely insane. But the guys powerband graph was like a tabletop.
@@ObservationofLimits straight compound with no bypasses or clutches makes the setup so much easier and works flawlessly. Huge powerband with no dips on bypass crossover etc that those who try bypasses suffer from.
Everyone always forgets volvos. I'm a volvo fanatic and they've always had strong reliable powerful engines. The B16, B18, B20, the 6 cylinder twin turbo, the magical 5 cylinder turbo and now the 2.0 supercharged and Turbocharged engine.
Had the same engine in my Polo GTI 6R. Never again will I get a car with that engine it was horrifically unreliable and paired with the DSG box that’s just a recipe to burn through money
@@mattlewis2320 My Granpa has the 1.4TSI with 160HP in his Golf Plus. It has the newer, stronger Timing Chain and has never had any problems. You can get lucky with this kind of engine
Thanks for explaining the way the system works. I've wondered and speculated since I got a car that had one in 2019. Speaking of, you forgot one of the major and only brands making twin-charged engines right now; Volvo. Volvo also makes Twin-charged engines for both Semi's (I think a certain D13 model) that produce over 1500 ft-ibs of torque and around 400 hp and for cars their "T6" models past 2016 which are 2.0L Twin-charged engines that produce about 306-330hp with equal amounts of torque. their hybrid "T8" also uses the twin-charged engine and produces a combined 400-415hp as well and around 475ft-ibs of torque. Not going to forget the rare 2015.5 S-V60 Polestar line that used the 2.0L Twin-charged setup to produce about 360+hp also Just before Polestar split into it's own car making. As someone who owned a 2019 Volvo XC90T8 hybrid, I can say the acceleration was absolutely insane and I never experienced any form of turbo-lag. It also got fantastic gas mileage, even when not in hybrid/electric mode. That said, my favorite engine is still the Yamaha 5 cylinder inline Volvo used from 1995-2012ish. Specifically the one in my 2007 S60R which has a 2.5L that produces 300hp and 295 torques. The turbo-lag is quite noticeable though at low RPM, but it's boot threshold is only 1850 RPM, which is nuts.
Twin charging on the other hand has been used quite successfully on many aircraft over the years, and those dudes went nuts pulling every oz of power they could. Back as early as WW2 we had engines producing up to 3000hp give or take, though the engine I have in mind I believe had multistage supercharging instead of being twin charged, but I digress. They also have a fielded a few special kinds of turbochargers implementing a power recovery turbine, that not only spools the compressor but has a shaft connected to the turbine (some may have a second) that inputs additional exhaust gas energy back into the crankshaft.
Working on Volvos for the past two ish year they’re amazingly designed even before the hybrid they had dual charged motor with beautiful power delivery throughout the rpm’s the new 48v hybrids don’t even have a exhaust manifold the turbo models have the turbo bolted right to the head
You guys completely forgot Volvo. You need to do an episode on how modern Volvo engines are able combine multiple systems into one engine. Like the Polestar1 I think and some other Volvo engines have a supercharger, turbo charger and electric system all in one. Seems overly complex but I think those 2.0 litre engines are reliable.
Great video! That Audi diesel you mentioned is actually tri-charged, some pretty cool tech. 4 valves per cylinder, with dual exhaust runners from each cylinder, driving two turbos. One set of exhaust valves can be silenced, by moving the cam. All the exhaust drives one turbo bringing it up to speed quicker. When that turbo reaches max volume, the valves are engaged spinning the second turbo. The third compressor is electric used just for throttle tip in.. reported to have less throttle lag than a naturally aspirated engine.. to spin the electric compressor quicker and keep the electric motor smaller the car has a 48 volt system. Wish they could import it to the USA.
@@fgtrhwu2 bought the car at 2 years old, had it for another 4 years. Into the 3rd year it put it’s into limp mode due to running on 3 cylinders due to oil getting past the piston ring and clogging up the spark plug. I had taken out extended warranty thankfully so the only thing I had to pay for over the rebuild for cylinder scoring was new spark plugs. Sold it with only 60k miles on the clock
@@fgtrhwu2 £6k, I paid £14k I think. Great engine for the mix of fuel efficiency and power but badly designed on the cooling side (ibiza didn’t have a temp gauge). I didn’t even drive it in anger as most of my mileage was commuting in traffic
after a certain year, BMW caught on to "turbo lag" and decided to have an option on their M vehicles to "pre-spool" their turbo's. Instead of waiting for a certain RPM to get your power, you can put your car into "sport plus" mode and instantly hear the turbos spool up. When you hit it at a red light, you're not losing any low end power.
@@codylujan That sounds like they've finally devised a version of the MGU-H energy scavenger systems used on Formula 1 that's worth putting on consumer cars. The F1 MGU-H's can do it bidirectionally though, both pre-spooling the turbo for maximum power on demand, and converting exhaust pressure into electricity when the ECU is no longer demanding boost.
@@dustinbrueggemann1875 I think their high compression ratio helps. the f82 m4's are 10:2:1 and intercooled. its pretty much wastegate... the turbos maintain some slightly increased pressure to allow for faster spool.
At the risk of sounding pedantic: there may have only been 8 production auto engines that are twin charged, but the practice actually started with aircraft engines. Both the p-38 lightning and p-47 thunderbolt used “turbo superchargers” to help their engines perform at higher altitudes.
@@Riktos superchargers did exist and were used in aircraft like the spitfire, that being said, the p47 thunderbolt did in fact have turbo and supercharger, but i can't say about the p38 lightning
@@legocommandercody800 Indeed. Almost all US warplanes of WWII were twin-charged. The blower was built into the engine, usually on the accessory case at the rear and driven by a quill shaft from the crank. The turbo might be anywhere. On the P-47, for example, it was located 18 feet behind the engine. The Thunderbolt was actually designed around the bulky turbo/intercooler arrangement. The main exception to this was the Merlin engine used in the P-51 Mustang. The Merlin was a British-designed V-12 with an excellent two-stage blower and an intercooler between the compressor stages. The Merlin replaced the GM Allison V-12 which had only a single-stage blower. They couldn't fit a turbo into the Mustang's slim fuselage. The US really went all in on turbochargers. Graham White, who wrote a fine book on the R-2800 engine, notes that General Electric built over 250,000 turbos during the war. The device was central to American strategy in the air campaign.
I had one of those VW 1.4 tsi engines in a seat ibiza cupra until last year (I don't think you get them in the US) and absolutely loved that engine. Got 45 mpg on long drives but would pull like a mule from 2500rpm right the way up to 6500rpm. Great little motor and plenty fast enough to get you into trouble...
I am sad they left out Volvo. Volvo has been twin charging their line up for quite a few years to achieve more performance and fuel economy. They have twin charged engines that also work with electric motors. They did it before it was cool.
Yeah, they COMPLETELY left out Volvo who has been a big proponent for a while. Having driven the V60, I feel they even did a good job of it, even if it was a highly strained engine.
Atleast one of the group B rally cars ran both and was a beast. Don't think I've seen it since. Edit** as soon as I start the video he mentions the group B car
Lmao that's Great. Made even better by the reply that said something and immediately saw the same thing in the video. What a funny way to start my morning
@@toddf93 I'm sorry, but I have no idea what a T6 or T8 is in terms of a Volvo model. If it's an SUV or similar body type, well... That's why I didn't care about them, either.
@@ZeroHourProductions407 t6 & t8 are powertrain designations on each of the models... t6 is 2.0L twincharge engine & t8 is same engine combined with plug in hybrid
Jeremiah, if you see this, you can document the VW EA111 engine, especially the 1.4TSi/TFSi. I drive one almost daily. 1390cc of twincharged madness, being both economic yet powerful. In its most power, you can find a 170Hp version, BLG. Some claimed this type of engine to be problematic, presenting either piston rings failure, cracking pistons, alarming oil consumption (thing that is related also to the piston rings, if I recall right), and a weak timing chain tensioner that became weak at around 60.000 km or 37000 miles, things that have benn solved in the most part, but the thing is,maintained well enough can be a really fun budget-economy engine. Some even got the engine to 380HP, or even more, which I personally find astonishing coming from a VW 1.4l engine.
@@willg955 The are nice to drive mostly because of the higher torque and the power curve. Power jumps up quickly from low revs then stays the same. And also the GTi from the same year had 200 hp, can’t imagine they wanted to have more power in a lower model.
I also have a twin charged Golf. Its very powerful off the line and I love it but the maintenance cost are kinda piling up. I recently replaced the pistons with forged ones and I have replaced the water pump 3 times already cause the clutch just wears out fast. Thats the price for more power babyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@meshackmutua1055 man i have the twin charged golf as well hopefully i dont have that water pump issue that you are experiencing but in regards to your pistons was something wrong ?
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I think 1.4 tsi ecofuel version (cng) has forged pistons stock. Ist 150hp@cng and I think 148hp@gas
You forgot about one twin charged engine that was manufactured in the early 90’s. The two-stroke Detroit Diesel 8V92TA. That’s a two-stroke V8 with 92 cubic inches per cylinder, turbo, aftercooled with intake ports in the cylinder sleeves and four exhaust valves per cylinder. It uses a massive turbo to a massive intercooler and roots style blower to an aftercooler. This engine was equipped in the US Army’s 10 ton capacity HEMTT Wrecker.
@@LBibeauB24 Yes it does. The blower does just that, blow the exhaust out of the cylinder. It is classified as a n/a engine without the turbo. It can't run without the blower...
@@janus4002 I'm getting my hands on a detroit here soon and I plan on making a proper twin charged detroit by using a whipple and a VGT. Then I'm modding the govonor and valve springs to rev that fucker up to 3500rpm. She will scream.
I rebuilt one out of an airport tug and the guy put it in a pulling tractor when I was at trade school also rebuilt an old Hercules to go in a tugboat up on superior
I did this on my 4.9 liter ford in line 6, I love it, 10 psi at the hit from supercharger and the turbo pulls it to 25 psi with a minor headbolt upgrade while running on e 85
@@slk1771 T8's are plug-in hybrid with 400V batteries, the mild hybrids are badged as B4 or 5 and can be diesel or petrol with a 48V mild hybrid system
On a construction job site that I was working on, about 20 years ago, the place we were working on was going to be a large casino. They had 2 HUGE generator sets that wete to be installed. The gensets each had a 2-stroke V-16 Detroit diesel, that had 4 turbos hanging off the exhaust manifolds, the output of which then fed directly into 2 Roots blowers, which were laying inline across the long intake manifold. The mufflers that were laying on the floor for them were large enough that I could crawl inside the pipe, and darn near stand up inside of it. I still have a picture of that around somewhere. It was QUITE an impressive setup. I imagine that a casino needs a SHITload of electricity if the grid were to go down. I was there the day they were finished being installed, and then fired up and load tested. Them funkers ROARED when they were warmed up and brought up to full load. Being 2-strokes, and 16 cylinders, those things sounded like they were SCREAMING but in reality, being a 3-phase generator, they were most likely only turning 1800 RPMs. I'm guessing that the sound I heard is EXACTLY why they call them, "Screamin' Jimmys"... The "Jimmy" part meaning GMC, who was the manufacturer of the engines.
Also the p38 had this setup, supercharger for low altitudes, turbo for high altitudes, which made it significantly more powerful/faster at any altitude than any other aircraft at the time, which mostly had twin superchargers(one for low, one for high); which were really good at a particular altitude, but higher or lower theyd suffer, while turbos are more flexible, but also much harder to implement on an airframe, let alone without computers, let alone without fuel injection.
Both were always on. How much charge air the turbo generated was varied by a waste gate associated with altitude. The system in the video is sequential, while the p38 (and many American planes during the war) were compounded (it’s referenced as two stages). The turbo would feed compressed air to the centrifugal supercharger further enhancing the boost levels. I would encourage you to check out Greg’s planes and automobiles. He goes into significant detail on these setups.
That’s really interesting. I always thought the VAG 1.4 twincharge was dropped because it kept breaking from heatsoak and blowing up, not production costs
Yeah, I’m going to confidently say that VW probably said publically they dropped it because of “production costs” when really it was because it was the “costs” of replacing customers motors
Most problems came from a hilariously undersized PCV system that set up chain reactions in the engine. The next generation engine, ea211 1.4 150hp with a single turbo was so much better in every way.
Dual forced induction is very common on the maritime industry. I used to work on old Detroit Diesel series 71. The 6 71, 71 series 6V, 8V had the blower and turbo. I also worked on a 16V 71 series generator. The engines were two cycle, both blower and turbo were necessary on the engine for air intake and to blow the exhaust out of the combustion chamber. Those engines have an unique oil burn smell. There are some Fairbanks Morse medium speed engines in locomotives and industrial generators that also have blower and turbo system.
Actually quite a few us ww2 warplanes used twin charged engines tho they were 2800-3000 rpm revving, 28-46 litre engines that had to make well over 2000 horses at 6 km height. A naturally aspirated engine would most likely shit itself at 6000 meters altitude. Also do all that without any electronics, sometimes inverted
@@chrisfunaro8798 no, they did not, at the time they only had cathode tubes, so everything was mechanically timed. Of course they had electromagnets batteries generators and stuff like that onboard but most of the time they had to come up with genious ideas to get around not having computers. One example is the constant speed propeller which was basicly the aircraft equivalent of a CVT, just without any computers
@@balazsbelavari7556 i looked it up ur right, but i already knew about the constant speed propeller, the fuel injection was based of diesel designs it seems like
Reminds me of the twin induction system used in the P-63 Kingcobra. An internal supercharger was used at all times while an external one was hydraulically controlled to add extra pressure when necessary. Both were only supers but still very impressive
P-38 had the same engine. All the Allison V-1710's had a gear driven impellor supercharger behind the carburetor, meaning it compressed the fuel-air charge _after_ it had been metered. On the P-38, the turbo was the second stage forced induction component of the system. Waste gate began closing when you pushed the throttles past 2/3rds and had to run the ram air through an intercooler before it hit the carb.
I believe the Detroit Diesel was the first production engine to be both supercharged and turbocharged unless we count the EMD that did both by turning the turbo into a gear driven supercharger when there wasn’t enough exhaust energy to spool the turbo.
I was about to bring that up, the Detroit 71 series is kinda forgotten by most, not as common nowadays as cat 3406 or big cam cummins, They really fell off hard
Yep the old school d.d. 2 cycles were all blown and some had both blowers and turbos. We had a few come thru the shop i used to work at and we had a very small group of guys that could work on them. The messed up part is this was back in the day of mechanical fuel injection no cofuser to screw it up.
@@davidgirod6684 the old Detroits had blowers yes but they are still naturally aspirated as the blower doesn't really create boost and without the blower the engine wouldn't run
Great content! Really enjoy learning from you guys!!! I bought a brand new Volvo S 90 in 2018 and was surprised that the 2.0 L AWD T6 engine could do 315hp. That's when I first learned about supercharged and turbocharged engines at same time. Its a marvel of power. Really fun to drive, plenty of boost and no lag at all. No need to buy a super car to experience it. Mine was even luckier at 22k under MSRP.
Back in 03' I was a yacht broker and listed a boat for a family friend down river. It was a custom aluminum fishing boat with a Volvo KAD32P Diesel with a Dual Prop outdrive. It had turbo fed roots blower stock and that 22' boat did 44 Knots no problem. I had to pilot it twice from Puget Island to Portland Or. and the 90 some mile trip used 14 gallons both times at 44 Knots the whole way.
I was thinking of doing this to my car and than this video pops out. That's a lot of useful info that I needed since I'm currently doing some research. You guys have inspired me a lot to mod my car, so thanks a lot for everything
Yes, BMW made a sequential twin turbo on their 335i platform. Smaller turbo for low to mid and a bigger turbo for mid to high. Some companies combined it in one turbo using vein system. I believe the 90s Japanese cars (Skylines, RX-7 and Supras) were already doing this similarly though. Not sequentially though.
Still some miniscule lag, and a blower is still more efficient, and provides more oompf, at really low rpms. Furthermore, I think that you can increase the turbo size, since you're not restricted by a smaller turbo. Also, who says that you can't put a sequential turbo setup *after* the blower?
Twin scroll turbos are the new standard. There really isn't any reason to be single scroll except cost. Sequential turbos, twin turbos, and twin charged engines are too complicated AND expensive. It seems like a decent size engine like 2.5L I4 or 3L I6 with a single medium sized twin scroll turbo with a short and narrow intake system with a throttle body that don’t close completely (like Porche) would be best overall.
@@realeyes4734 unless you're doing used oil analysis across multiple vehicles you're unlikely to notice the difference, but an engine with the K&N will wear at a faster rate than the same engine with stock filters. If you're okay with that for the perceived performance benefit that's your choice, but it's good to be aware of the pros and cons 🍻
@@realeyes4734 Always kept getting dirty maf issues even when cleaning and oiling the filter often. One day I wiped the inside of the intake tube with a wet paper towel and it was all dusty. Needless to say, the K&N filters don't seem like they are as effective as paper for filtration.
Dude you failed to mention one of my favorite vehicles, one of the most well known for twin charging. The Chevy Cobalt SS came with a supercharger from 04-07, then in 08 they switch to a turbo from 08-10, meaning it is one the BEST and EASIEST to twin charge, since it had factory super and turbo charges widely available and easily installed, it was cheap and simple(and not guesswork or much math involved) to twin that baby up. I wanna get one so bad you can push over 300hp through that tiny little Cobalt I love them.
You guys produce amazing content. Well presented, funny and yet super informative. Finally, decades after buying them in Gran Turismo 1 and 2 I understand what an intercooler does.
An episode on that 1.4 TSI would be neat. I love the episodes where you guys dig into some details that make normal cars unique and special because of their design and reliability of certain systems so the average guy has an idea what to look for when buying a used car.
From WWII Detroit made 2 stroke Diesel engines with a roots style blower and a turbo. The 92 series had 92 inches per cylinder in V6, V9. V12 and V16 configurations. I have 2 6V92s and an 8V71. The 8V71 engine was designed as a million mile engine. The original 8V71NA put out 318HP and 863 ft/lbs of torque @ 2100 rpm with a total displacement of 568 cubic inches.
I was hoping for someone to comment about Detroit 2 strokes. Though technically they where twin charged, the purpose of the blower was to scavage exhaust. Since Detroits had no exhaust valves and cylinder ports instead due to the 2 strike design, the blower essentially blew the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder thru the ports near bottom dead center.
I've never personally seen one but I've heard that the aw11 MR2 supercharged with the 4AGZE is relatively easy to twin charge. And if you could do that then you could probably also twin charge a Previa, which no one can deny would be bad to the bone.
I worked on a 4.3 V6 S10 in the 90s with a roots and a turbo. It's too much darn math,we did it with a custom intake, a sensor switched cluch and a wastegate.
It's a little confusing when you say "they're pumping the same amount of air regardless of engine speed." I mean, I understand what you're saying, but technically, just like the engine itself, the higher the RPM the more air they're pumping. You're referring to the previous sentence when you said "per crank rotation." It just caught me off guard the way you said it and I had to re-watch it again. I'm glad you covered the differences between a Roots blower and a twin-screw supercharger. Some people, myself included, don't really consider a Roots blower to be a real supercharger, as it doesn't actually compress the air. It's really just a positive displacement air pump, not a compressor. By the definition of the word "supercharger," a Roots blower doesn't meet this criteria. However, as the term is so often applied to Roots blowers, I don't bother with the semantics, however I will always refer to them as blowers.
There is always the way of running the Turbo to a Blow Thru Carburetor that is sitting on top of a Supercharger. And the Air\Fuel mix that is getting push/pulled into the supercharger helps keep things cool. Simpler.
Honestly, I hit like immediately after Jeremiah's musical intro. All I want for Christmas is a playlist of 90s covers by Jeremiah to get me in the zone at work. New merch idea?
There were some old engines (possibly aircraft? Can’t remember) That had what is essentially a turbo and a centrifugal supercharger combined into one unit. A single turbo-style compressor housing with both a crank pulley and exhaust turbine on the other end. The idea was that the crank drive would spool up the massive turbo, then disengage via a clutch once there was enough exhaust to keep it spooling via the turbine 👍🏻
AMG does some cool stuff with turbos by splitting the turbine and impeller and burying the turbine inside the V. Hot stays hot and cold stays cold, and minimize system volume to reduce lag. More recently they’ve gone a step further and cut the mechanical link between turbine and impeller by using a system of generator on the turbine and electric motor on the impeller. More flexible packaging and zero lag.
So many people are talking about Volvo's new engines, specifically in the T6 and T8 drivetrain systems, but after having worked as a Volvo automotive technician for a decent amount of time, and having come in from having loved Volvo's beforehand, I would never buy one of them. The amount of issues they have is insane, the number of superchargers we've had to pull out to reseal is crazy. Not toention the fact that the differential and gear drive in the ERAD setup that is complete crap, to the point that we literally always had one or more in a bay to have these replaced, really changed my mind on buying one lol
You could have ended this video in 58 seconds and I would have still like it for the laughs. Love the way y'all do entertaining information videos a great way to get people to learn.
Had to come back to this video. I have a 97 prelude, and many big dreams with it, you as well as Big Mike and John Cody Bowman have been a huge inspiration for me. I like the more unusual builds or events, such as I love Hill climb and time attack more than other forms of racing. My dream has been, at least since about late 2019 when I got the car, to twin change my car. I plan to never sell it though many people sell there first cars. If I sold it, I'd be selling a huge part of myself. I love what yall do and have been a sub since before science garage was a thing, RIP lol. Keep doing what you do best, informing the new car community and just teaching us. I'm not sure if anyone at Donut will read this but if you do, Thank you from the bottom of my heart. And next HI LOW, do a FWD honda, might be a bit more reliable than the Z's and Subie's lol. But seriously thank you from Roxanne (the 97 Lude) and myself.
Actually, there are more than just 8 twin charged engines. Almost any turbocharged 2 stroke diesel is actually twincharged. Locomotives even took the concept a step further and added a clutched turbocharger. At slow speeds, the turbo is engine driven like a centrifugal supercharger, and at higher speeds, the increased exhaust gases allow the turbocharger shaft to spin faster than it would if it was strictly engine driven.
It's a cool concept and probably also practice, but the turbo when belt fed is still centrifugal, as opposed to positive displacement. I guess that isn't as important, though, considering the fact that a locomotive engine turns a generator for electric motors, instead of being direct drive? Cool enough concept.
@@brianwesley28 It really doesn't matter for an engine. There are disadvantages to centrifugal pumps when you get into things like very viscous fluids, but for air, you shouldn't have a problem. In the case of a 2 stroke, the supercharger, or rather blower, doesn't create boost anyway, it simply provides positive air pressure to establish airflow. The centrifugal blower is actually more efficient on an engine, because the output air isn't as choppy as you get with a positive displacement blower. That's why most blowers have twisted rotors, to reduce that chopping effect. Screw type blowers are better at it than roots blowers, but centrifugal blowers are better than both because it's constant pressure.
I tried twin charging my Cobalt SS back in my car club days, that was a nightmare as far as tuning went and it ate up a ton of space in my engine bay. The kit cost about 7 grand which was on the cheaper side since the car came supercharged from factory, and i did the install myself over the next 3 weeks. I had a few fun drives with it but stuff kept leaving me on the side of the road, or in limp mode after multiple trips to the tuner so i eventually put it back to stock and sold the kit, only to focus on beefing up the blower power and keeping things cool. Methanol injection saves lives, if youre having heat problems
I have a twin charged ka24de i built in my s13 convertible. It's quite the beast. I'll be covering the details about that build on my channel soon. A twin charged car is insane to drive. It's like having v8 torque out of a 4 cylinder, and the top end keeps pulling all the way to redline. I did a compound set up on the boost. I blow the turbo through the supercharger. Plus it sounds like you are driving a 747. aircraft.
Jeremiah great video as always. Wondering if Donut would do a video on why we don't see any twin supercharged engines? A root/twin screw paired with a centrifugal supercharger would be interesting. I know Aston Martin had a Twin-Supercharged car a while back.
I'm a bit late to this but yeah, I built my own twincharge. Still going strong after 8 or so yrs. 2liter, gt3540 blowing through intercooler in roots supercharger, clutched at 11psi, runs to 25ish psi on pump fuel. Entertaining.
Used a K&N cabin filter on my 2015 Mustang GT... Never again. Made the interior smell like the oil in the filter medium. Also lowered MPG by roughly city from 19 to 16.5 on average with the K&N intake i had installed as well. I figure it may have interferred with the air flow sensor.
Bro can you just start like a masterclass channel or sub group that just breaks down vehicles like cars and motorcycles. These guys are definitely better than anything on tv.
I’m glad you mentioned Volvos turbo supercharger unit. Oh that’s right you didn’t! Maybe the only unit that has the turbo and supercharger combined into one mechanical device. Go check it out!
I saw an article in Performance Autotuning back in (I think) 2009ish about a guy who built a twin charged VW GTI. Long story short, it's not impossible, just extra complicated. But if you DO actually do it and you do get it working, it should work very well. The supercharger handles everything while the turbo is spooling up so power is delivered smoothly across the board.
Curious as to why manufacturers haven’t attempted to scavenge the extra boost pressure attained when the wastegate opens to retain air pressure that could then be used to help spin up the turbo once again. Seems less complicated than twin charging. Perhaps the size of the tank necessary for adequate volume retention creates too much of a packaging issue. You could use it like a shot of nitrous, in effect.
They do. That’s literally the stock setup… which is why you don’t have the lovely PSHHH sound every time you lift the throttle on stock cars. The blowoff recycles rather than venting to the atmosphere.
@@JoeIsCrazyWillman I understand what you are saying, but that’s not really what I was going for. You’re talking about recirculating the air back to the inlet side of the turbo to help reduce back pressure, which helps keep the turbo spinning. I’m referring to wastegates, either venting exhaust to the air or circumnavigating it around the turbo back to the downpipe. Why have this setup, when the turbo could run all exhaust through it, and any unused boost pressure could be held in a storage tank, to be used immediately upon acceleration request, before the turbocharger can build pressure again.
Jeremiah, please do an episode explaining different gear ratios on differentials, transfer cases and transmissions; how different parts affect the ratios; and how it affects speed and acceleration.
YES! i would love something like this!
Agreed
Why does different gears matter?
@@hanzo9941 same reason transmission gears matter
Look up Donut Science Garage manual transmission and differentials. They covered it already
Love twin-charged.... Don't forget about Volvo's T8 engine: 400hp 500tq twin-charged four cylinder hybrid! Would that be triplet charged?
Just sucks that the electric engine in the T8 was not reliable. The T6 twin charged is way more reliable
we have a volvo v90 t8 r-design and a xc90 t8 r-design they are both very fast didn’t know they were twin-charged lol
That's a very good question
I have a xc60 t8, i like the engine a alot, sound is amazing from the turbo. They ditched a charger in the 2022 model
@@bobylikescars no they didn’t. It’s electric super charger for the T6 and T8 engines 😆
As always volvo is forgotten. I tested the volvo s90 t8 when it came out in 2017 and got amazed by it's supercharged and turbocharged four cylinder engine, first engine of it's kind i saw and drove. It is a beast
Swedish Meatballs never get the respect they should. Great cars though
@@dropitlikeitshot815 Indeed. I'm pretty sure most people don't even know Polestar, the maker of the NFS Heat Cover Car, the 1 Hero Edition, is a subsidiary of Volvo.
@@HarmonicVector That was a super cool little car. I actually didn't know that about Polestar myself. Thanks for that tidbit of info.
@@dropitlikeitshot815 unfortunately after 2011-12 volvo after phasing out ford parts under ford ownership transitioned to the Chinese company Greely holdings. They're not exactly swedish anymore I don't think
@@christianhudspeth3338 Really? That wouldn't at all surprise me. Is still disappointing to read.
I absolutely love the Delta S4. It’s just so monstrous, wild, uncontrollable, blasphemic. It was so fast (0-100 in 2.7 second on gravel) that even Henri Toivonen, the legend himself, was barely able to drive it.
I also love how THEY AREN'T IN THE U.S! 😭
@@waluigigang9998 of course they arent, they were literal race cars from 80s
@@p1gam3yteam25 But what if they made a street legal one? (It STILL wouldn't be sold in the US)
@@waluigigang9998 They made a street legal one called S4 Stradale for homologation.
@@waluigigang9998 well homologation versions exist but they are not nearly as fast
Group b rally was absolutely the best thing ever. The technological advancement made in the few year it was around was amazing
Yeah group b or something similar has to come back
@@keepermovin5906 It did. It's the 2017-spec WRC+ cars which ended this season and replaced by Rally1 next year.
@@AbrahamArthemius this brings me much joy
@@AbrahamArthemiusisnt that like hyundai and no one else
@@chir0pter From what i know all manufacturers are using turbos with antilag system fitted, rather than twincharged. They're producing "only" around 380hp but they're FAR more responsive. Add in sophisticated suspension system (watch how stable modern WRC cars land after a big jump), modern tyres and better understanding on aerodynamics, you have cars that can eat Group B for breakfast around a rally stage.
Detroit (and I think Cummins) made twin charged engines in the last 30 years. The Detroit had 12L+ of displacement and I believe the force induction system was making like 75lbs of boost. The horse power numbers weren’t particularly impressive, but they produced well north of 1,000ft-lbs of torque
If you are thinking of the Detroit 2 strokes then the supercharger is still considered N/A because that engine design requires a blower to run
Dillon, yes Detroit considered them to be NA, but a Non turbo version still made pressure slightly above ambient, something in the range of 1-2psi. By a technicality that would class it as forced induction,even though the blower is only actually there to force the exhaust gasses out.
The Australian army runs the Detroit in our ASLAVs, it’s interesting to learn it’s not considered twin charged though! Learn something new everyday.
The 2 strokes back in the 60s and 70s had a turbo and a blower, not sure if the blower actually added power tho...I know the cylinder sleeves had the exhaust ports at the bottom and the blower blew the smoke out at the bottom of the stroke, then it filled it with air(so yeah it added power) and fired on the upstroke, still favorite motor so smoky so loud so high reving. Love those bad boys.
Yeah the blower was literally just to blow the smoke out the bottom.
Every Volvo since 2018 has a 2.0l 4cyl with a turbo, and the higher trim option are all twin charged. So you can get a mid size sedan with a 350ish hp twin charged engine. And if you get the hybrid it's like 400hp with the mechanical drive to the front wheels, and electric driving the rear.
They started it in 2015. I have an XC60 and it's surprisingly good. Early engines had heavy oil consumption issues though
With the S60 T8, you get high pitched sound constantly. Why? Braking produces high pitched sound from the regenerative system and accelerating produces high pitched sound from the supercharger. Have an S60 and that's just a weird part about it
These are dope, a supercharger that is also a turbo all in one mechanical device. Not sure if that’s just a Volvo thing or not.
is this a Volvo ad?
@@ryanm4319 lol not an ad, just mentioning a whole manufacturer that uses the same twin charge system that they were talking about but didn't mention it at all
Yo I just wanna thank the entire Donut team for putting out this amazing content for years on end. I literally wouldn't know where I'd be car knowledge wise without you people. The editing, the topics, the way of presenting them, everything. I mean, how do you even come up with some of these topics? That one JDM van that's getting banned, this right here, fucking BOATS?! You just can't not love and appreciate the stuff all y'all create!
What you mean "YOU PEOPLE"? lol jk
I've been watching donut for YEARS and I'm amazed at how consistently they put out good content
@@rodp.1 Exactly this
I feel the same. Mad how much more certain parts of a car make sense to me. I knew where they went and for what reason, but I never knew how they worked as much as this.
They're OK.
Been doing 'full compound' twincharging on 4ag engine since 2007. The whole rev range powerband is awesome! Torque forever. Mines only budget diy setup, but works awesome.
I remember way back in the early 00s some madlad twincharged an AE86 with a true bypass setup. Once the rpm got high enough that the turbo output more volume than the supercharger could handle, it bypassed the supercharger. I want to say he even setup a clutch mechanism like an A/C compressor to remove the parasitic loss of the supercharger.
The plumbing on it was absolutely insane. But the guys powerband graph was like a tabletop.
@@ObservationofLimits straight compound with no bypasses or clutches makes the setup so much easier and works flawlessly. Huge powerband with no dips on bypass crossover etc that those who try bypasses suffer from.
Don’t forget about Volvos T6 and T8 engines they’re twin charged four bangers making 320-400 hrsprs
he completely forgot Volvo
Everyone always forgets volvos. I'm a volvo fanatic and they've always had strong reliable powerful engines. The B16, B18, B20, the 6 cylinder twin turbo, the magical 5 cylinder turbo and now the 2.0 supercharged and Turbocharged engine.
The Volvos definitely suffer from "Mo chargin mo problems"
They blow out all the seals and gaskets in the supercharger all the time.
@@Nikko780 That would be a small % of them. Turbos in general are good for around 100,000 miles.
Just say 4 cylinder, “four banger” is cringe asf
I was recently doing some research and found out that my dad's Volkswagen Scirocco actually has the 1.4L Twincharged engine.
Surprised it hasn’t broke yet
Had the same engine in my Polo GTI 6R. Never again will I get a car with that engine it was horrifically unreliable and paired with the DSG box that’s just a recipe to burn through money
@@mattlewis2320 My Granpa has the 1.4TSI with 160HP in his Golf Plus.
It has the newer, stronger Timing Chain and has never had any problems.
You can get lucky with this kind of engine
Thanks for explaining the way the system works. I've wondered and speculated since I got a car that had one in 2019. Speaking of, you forgot one of the major and only brands making twin-charged engines right now; Volvo.
Volvo also makes Twin-charged engines for both Semi's (I think a certain D13 model) that produce over 1500 ft-ibs of torque and around 400 hp and for cars their "T6" models past 2016 which are 2.0L Twin-charged engines that produce about 306-330hp with equal amounts of torque.
their hybrid "T8" also uses the twin-charged engine and produces a combined 400-415hp as well and around 475ft-ibs of torque. Not going to forget the rare 2015.5 S-V60 Polestar line that used the 2.0L Twin-charged setup to produce about 360+hp also Just before Polestar split into it's own car making.
As someone who owned a 2019 Volvo XC90T8 hybrid, I can say the acceleration was absolutely insane and I never experienced any form of turbo-lag. It also got fantastic gas mileage, even when not in hybrid/electric mode.
That said, my favorite engine is still the Yamaha 5 cylinder inline Volvo used from 1995-2012ish. Specifically the one in my 2007 S60R which has a 2.5L that produces 300hp and 295 torques. The turbo-lag is quite noticeable though at low RPM, but it's boot threshold is only 1850 RPM, which is nuts.
Donut Media: Twin charged engines.
Volvo:👀
very fun when the supercharger gaskets fail 🤦🏻♂️
Of VW a few years ago
Or a VW scirocco III, not available in US tho
10:38 the unfortunate truth about growing old, this starts happening more often. my advice: never EVER trust what you think will just be a fart.
Spittin' straight facts 😁
Dang hey tokin LOL I used to watch you in the forest a lot.
facts. happened to me this afternoon.
😐
You just eventually learn to NEVER trust farts at all. They lie.
Twin charging on the other hand has been used quite successfully on many aircraft over the years, and those dudes went nuts pulling every oz of power they could. Back as early as WW2 we had engines producing up to 3000hp give or take, though the engine I have in mind I believe had multistage supercharging instead of being twin charged, but I digress.
They also have a fielded a few special kinds of turbochargers implementing a power recovery turbine, that not only spools the compressor but has a shaft connected to the turbine (some may have a second) that inputs additional exhaust gas energy back into the crankshaft.
Don't forget water-methanol injection in addition to the forced induction systems.
Also in train.
Working on Volvos for the past two ish year they’re amazingly designed even before the hybrid they had dual charged motor with beautiful power delivery throughout the rpm’s the new 48v hybrids don’t even have a exhaust manifold the turbo models have the turbo bolted right to the head
You guys completely forgot Volvo. You need to do an episode on how modern Volvo engines are able combine multiple systems into one engine. Like the Polestar1 I think and some other Volvo engines have a supercharger, turbo charger and electric system all in one. Seems overly complex but I think those 2.0 litre engines are reliable.
Don’t quote me but I think all pole stars are 100% electric
@@TehSpazzmaster Not all, but the new lineup is or Hybrid.
12:43 bottommost car = Volvo T6
@@Josh_Quillan There is more than 1 Volvo that has such a power train
@@olatundeaboaba "Volvo T6" is the name of the powertrain, not the car
Great video! That Audi diesel you mentioned is actually tri-charged, some pretty cool tech. 4 valves per cylinder, with dual exhaust runners from each cylinder, driving two turbos. One set of exhaust valves can be silenced, by moving the cam. All the exhaust drives one turbo bringing it up to speed quicker. When that turbo reaches max volume, the valves are engaged spinning the second turbo. The third compressor is electric used just for throttle tip in.. reported to have less throttle lag than a naturally aspirated engine.. to spin the electric compressor quicker and keep the electric motor smaller the car has a 48 volt system. Wish they could import it to the USA.
I have one of those twin charged engines in the 2014 Jetta 1.4 TSI. Been good to me for what's gonna be 8 years now
Had the 180bhp 1.4 TSI in a little seat Ibiza, great fun until it went pop
@@mattvanders That's rough, how long did it last?
@@fgtrhwu2 bought the car at 2 years old, had it for another 4 years. Into the 3rd year it put it’s into limp mode due to running on 3 cylinders due to oil getting past the piston ring and clogging up the spark plug. I had taken out extended warranty thankfully so the only thing I had to pay for over the rebuild for cylinder scoring was new spark plugs. Sold it with only 60k miles on the clock
@@mattvanders How much did you sell it for?
@@fgtrhwu2 £6k, I paid £14k I think. Great engine for the mix of fuel efficiency and power but badly designed on the cooling side (ibiza didn’t have a temp gauge). I didn’t even drive it in anger as most of my mileage was commuting in traffic
The twin charged super turbo that MCM has is amazing! The honk it makes is quite interesting.
I was on my way to share the exact same message!
This video misses a load of key points the march ST has. In fact the graphics trying to explain this video are just wrong.
Nissan March
after a certain year, BMW caught on to "turbo lag" and decided to have an option on their M vehicles to "pre-spool" their turbo's. Instead of waiting for a certain RPM to get your power, you can put your car into "sport plus" mode and instantly hear the turbos spool up. When you hit it at a red light, you're not losing any low end power.
Are they using fuel to spool or some sort of electric compressor spool device? Some people use NO2 jets to spool up as well.
@@codylujan That sounds like they've finally devised a version of the MGU-H energy scavenger systems used on Formula 1 that's worth putting on consumer cars. The F1 MGU-H's can do it bidirectionally though, both pre-spooling the turbo for maximum power on demand, and converting exhaust pressure into electricity when the ECU is no longer demanding boost.
@@dustinbrueggemann1875 I think their high compression ratio helps. the f82 m4's are 10:2:1 and intercooled. its pretty much wastegate... the turbos maintain some slightly increased pressure to allow for faster spool.
Electronic waste gates are a beautiful thing. Electric turbos are even cooler.
I don't believe this, I think you are hearing the exhaust valve open making it louder
MightyCarMods have a Nissan March Superturbo and it sounds insane, supercharger honk and then the flutter of the turbo sounds mental
I was looking for this comment
Thank you. You beat me to it.
Moog also did a song where he mixed in the sounds from the car: ua-cam.com/video/2aL6D8tj2wk/v-deo.html
At the risk of sounding pedantic: there may have only been 8 production auto engines that are twin charged, but the practice actually started with aircraft engines. Both the p-38 lightning and p-47 thunderbolt used “turbo superchargers” to help their engines perform at higher altitudes.
I think both of them were turbocharged only. Back in the days they called regular turbocharger “turbo superchargers”.
@@Riktos superchargers did exist and were used in aircraft like the spitfire, that being said, the p47 thunderbolt did in fact have turbo and supercharger, but i can't say about the p38 lightning
Well you are being pedantic lol. We’re talking about car engines. Not planes 🤦🏽♂️
@@legocommandercody800 Indeed. Almost all US warplanes of WWII were twin-charged. The blower was built into the engine, usually on the accessory case at the rear and driven by a quill shaft from the crank. The turbo might be anywhere. On the P-47, for example, it was located 18 feet behind the engine. The Thunderbolt was actually designed around the bulky turbo/intercooler arrangement.
The main exception to this was the Merlin engine used in the P-51 Mustang. The Merlin was a British-designed V-12 with an excellent two-stage blower and an intercooler between the compressor stages. The Merlin replaced the GM Allison V-12 which had only a single-stage blower. They couldn't fit a turbo into the Mustang's slim fuselage.
The US really went all in on turbochargers. Graham White, who wrote a fine book on the R-2800 engine, notes that General Electric built over 250,000 turbos during the war. The device was central to American strategy in the air campaign.
@@sotros1 couldn't have said it better myself
I had one of those VW 1.4 tsi engines in a seat ibiza cupra until last year (I don't think you get them in the US) and absolutely loved that engine. Got 45 mpg on long drives but would pull like a mule from 2500rpm right the way up to 6500rpm. Great little motor and plenty fast enough to get you into trouble...
People who have the Volvos with twin charged engine: 👁👄👁
That's what I said as soon as I clicked this video, good ol' T8 powah😂😂
lancia have it as well
Lmao also it has a electric motor too so like triple charged? It’s insane
XC90 T8 twin charged and plug-in hybrid 😂
Xc60 t8 owner approves
I am sad they left out Volvo. Volvo has been twin charging their line up for quite a few years to achieve more performance and fuel economy. They have twin charged engines that also work with electric motors. They did it before it was cool.
Yeah, they COMPLETELY left out Volvo who has been a big proponent for a while. Having driven the V60, I feel they even did a good job of it, even if it was a highly strained engine.
Volvo Penta makes great twincharged marine engines that just absolutely rip.
Polestar does as well and that was very recent. Surprised they left it out.
That's what I thought. I remember the latest XC90 (or maybe XC60?) being TC'd.
10:38 he has addressed Volvo
Thank you Jeremiah for talking about such a little known thing. Man i love twin charged cars
*This crazy, I was just introduced to this setup within the last 48hrs, and here we go a detailed explanation that's going to be funny!*
Atleast one of the group B rally cars ran both and was a beast. Don't think I've seen it since. Edit** as soon as I start the video he mentions the group B car
Lmao that's Great. Made even better by the reply that said something and immediately saw the same thing in the video. What a funny way to start my morning
If you want to see how twincharging REALLY should be used, go look up Detroit diesel 92 series engines, like the 6v-92, 8v-92, etc. Etc.
@@Prestiged_peck Not even close to the same way.
MCM has a Japanese twin charge car. It's called the superturbo and it's rad
It’s a good day when donut posts
Soooooo..... everyday?
Amien
Then that’s almost every day.
So…. Everyday?
As long as it's not a Nolan video
My friend has a mk5 golf gt sport, stage 1. It’s twincharged and it sounds great.
Really proud of you for not making a “twin screw” joke, bringing the class
"Your engine isn't twincharged"
Me: Hold my XC60 there.
Volvo doesn't sell its good models in the states, so it's entirely plausible Donut slept on them for the same reason.
@@ZeroHourProductions407 Volvo sells the twin charge cars in the US... All T6& T8 models are twin charged
@@toddf93 I'm sorry, but I have no idea what a T6 or T8 is in terms of a Volvo model. If it's an SUV or similar body type, well... That's why I didn't care about them, either.
@@ZeroHourProductions407 it's also in the S60 which is a sedan...
@@ZeroHourProductions407 t6 & t8 are powertrain designations on each of the models... t6 is 2.0L twincharge engine & t8 is same engine combined with plug in hybrid
Jeremiah, if you see this, you can document the VW EA111 engine, especially the 1.4TSi/TFSi. I drive one almost daily. 1390cc of twincharged madness, being both economic yet powerful. In its most power, you can find a 170Hp version, BLG. Some claimed this type of engine to be problematic, presenting either piston rings failure, cracking pistons, alarming oil consumption (thing that is related also to the piston rings, if I recall right), and a weak timing chain tensioner that became weak at around 60.000 km or 37000 miles, things that have benn solved in the most part, but the thing is,maintained well enough can be a really fun budget-economy engine. Some even got the engine to 380HP, or even more, which I personally find astonishing coming from a VW 1.4l engine.
I was kinda confused when i read the title... my car is twin charged! Its the 1.4TSI from VW with 170HP, very fun to drive if want to know.
Jeez... Would it have had like 22HP without the turbo and supercharger?
@@willg955 The are nice to drive mostly because of the higher torque and the power curve. Power jumps up quickly from low revs then stays the same. And also the GTi from the same year had 200 hp, can’t imagine they wanted to have more power in a lower model.
I also have a twin charged Golf. Its very powerful off the line and I love it but the maintenance cost are kinda piling up. I recently replaced the pistons with forged ones and I have replaced the water pump 3 times already cause the clutch just wears out fast. Thats the price for more power babyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@meshackmutua1055 man i have the twin charged golf as well hopefully i dont have that water pump issue that you are experiencing but in regards to your pistons was something wrong ?
I think 1.4 tsi ecofuel version (cng) has forged pistons stock.
Ist 150hp@cng and I think 148hp@gas
You forgot about one twin charged engine that was manufactured in the early 90’s. The two-stroke Detroit Diesel 8V92TA. That’s a two-stroke V8 with 92 cubic inches per cylinder, turbo, aftercooled with intake ports in the cylinder sleeves and four exhaust valves per cylinder. It uses a massive turbo to a massive intercooler and roots style blower to an aftercooler. This engine was equipped in the US Army’s 10 ton capacity HEMTT Wrecker.
Doesn't that engine require a supercharger to run, though? Effectively making it only turbo charged?
@@LBibeauB24 Yes it does. The blower does just that, blow the exhaust out of the cylinder. It is classified as a n/a engine without the turbo. It can't run without the blower...
@@janus4002 I'm getting my hands on a detroit here soon and I plan on making a proper twin charged detroit by using a whipple and a VGT. Then I'm modding the govonor and valve springs to rev that fucker up to 3500rpm. She will scream.
I rebuilt one out of an airport tug and the guy put it in a pulling tractor when I was at trade school also rebuilt an old Hercules to go in a tugboat up on superior
I did this on my 4.9 liter ford in line 6, I love it, 10 psi at the hit from supercharger and the turbo pulls it to 25 psi with a minor headbolt upgrade while running on e 85
Is that the white one I see on the 300 Facebook forums?
Should've talked about volvos t6
Even more complicated are the T8s. Twin charged+ PHEV.
Volvo makes a twin charged four banger for boats. It's a very interesting engine!
Thr cars are twin charged too
yeah... the xc90 was or is sc/tc. never knew it until we started shopping for a family suv. walked away immediately and bought a new LX570
@@aynsleyjeansonne i think most of volvos t6 trim is twincharged. t8 is twincharged + mild hybrid
@@slk1771 T8's are plug-in hybrid with 400V batteries, the mild hybrids are badged as B4 or 5 and can be diesel or petrol with a 48V mild hybrid system
All T6's are twin charged while the T5's are just turbo'd. My wife has an S60 T6 and that little thing rips.
On a construction job site that I was working on, about 20 years ago, the place we were working on was going to be a large casino. They had 2 HUGE generator sets that wete to be installed. The gensets each had a 2-stroke V-16 Detroit diesel, that had 4 turbos hanging off the exhaust manifolds, the output of which then fed directly into 2 Roots blowers, which were laying inline across the long intake manifold.
The mufflers that were laying on the floor for them were large enough that I could crawl inside the pipe, and darn near stand up inside of it. I still have a picture of that around somewhere. It was QUITE an impressive setup. I imagine that a casino needs a SHITload of electricity if the grid were to go down.
I was there the day they were finished being installed, and then fired up and load tested. Them funkers ROARED when they were warmed up and brought up to full load. Being 2-strokes, and 16 cylinders, those things sounded like they were SCREAMING but in reality, being a 3-phase generator, they were most likely only turning 1800 RPMs.
I'm guessing that the sound I heard is EXACTLY why they call them,
"Screamin' Jimmys"... The "Jimmy" part meaning GMC, who was the manufacturer of the engines.
Also the p38 had this setup, supercharger for low altitudes, turbo for high altitudes, which made it significantly more powerful/faster at any altitude than any other aircraft at the time, which mostly had twin superchargers(one for low, one for high); which were really good at a particular altitude, but higher or lower theyd suffer, while turbos are more flexible, but also much harder to implement on an airframe, let alone without computers, let alone without fuel injection.
#knowledge
Arw you sure it was a turbocharger and not a two stage supercharger? I have never heared of turbos being used on aero engines in that era.
@@egoalter1276 B-17's were turbocharged and supercharged also. Pratt and Whitney and Wright liked to do it on their engines until 42/43
Both were always on. How much charge air the turbo generated was varied by a waste gate associated with altitude. The system in the video is sequential, while the p38 (and many American planes during the war) were compounded (it’s referenced as two stages). The turbo would feed compressed air to the centrifugal supercharger further enhancing the boost levels. I would encourage you to check out Greg’s planes and automobiles. He goes into significant detail on these setups.
That’s really interesting. I always thought the VAG 1.4 twincharge was dropped because it kept breaking from heatsoak and blowing up, not production costs
Looked for this comment
The 1.4 twincharged scirocco my friend had broke tow engines before he traded it for the 2.0 turbo
Yeah, I’m going to confidently say that VW probably said publically they dropped it because of “production costs” when really it was because it was the “costs” of replacing customers motors
Most problems came from a hilariously undersized PCV system that set up chain reactions in the engine. The next generation engine, ea211 1.4 150hp with a single turbo was so much better in every way.
@@Mnc6282 it’s a real shame, because the mk2 Skoda Fabia VRS would have otherwise been a fantastic hot hatch if not for the bomb under the bonnet
Dual forced induction is very common on the maritime industry. I used to work on old Detroit Diesel series 71. The 6 71, 71 series 6V, 8V had the blower and turbo. I also worked on a 16V 71 series generator. The engines were two cycle, both blower and turbo were necessary on the engine for air intake and to blow the exhaust out of the combustion chamber.
Those engines have an unique oil burn smell.
There are some Fairbanks Morse medium speed engines in locomotives and industrial generators that also have blower and turbo system.
Actually quite a few us ww2 warplanes used twin charged engines tho they were 2800-3000 rpm revving, 28-46 litre engines that had to make well over 2000 horses at 6 km height. A naturally aspirated engine would most likely shit itself at 6000 meters altitude.
Also do all that without any electronics, sometimes inverted
Detroit Diesel and EMD locomotives as well
Ah yes, don't forget Japan's (Subaru) Nakajima Ki-87.
they definitely had electronics considering they were fuel injected and not carbureted
@@chrisfunaro8798 no, they did not, at the time they only had cathode tubes, so everything was mechanically timed.
Of course they had electromagnets batteries generators and stuff like that onboard but most of the time they had to come up with genious ideas to get around not having computers.
One example is the constant speed propeller which was basicly the aircraft equivalent of a CVT, just without any computers
@@balazsbelavari7556 i looked it up ur right, but i already knew about the constant speed propeller, the fuel injection was based of diesel designs it seems like
Reminds me of the twin induction system used in the P-63 Kingcobra. An internal supercharger was used at all times while an external one was hydraulically controlled to add extra pressure when necessary. Both were only supers but still very impressive
Yes the p38 and the p47 where both twin chargerd.
@@DB.scale.models the P47 was not, it had a single extremely extremely large turbo.
P-38 had the same engine. All the Allison V-1710's had a gear driven impellor supercharger behind the carburetor, meaning it compressed the fuel-air charge _after_ it had been metered.
On the P-38, the turbo was the second stage forced induction component of the system. Waste gate began closing when you pushed the throttles past 2/3rds and had to run the ram air through an intercooler before it hit the carb.
Got a hybrid Volvo xc60 a couple months ago and has got this, is a lot of fun
I believe the Detroit Diesel was the first production engine to be both supercharged and turbocharged unless we count the EMD that did both by turning the turbo into a gear driven supercharger when there wasn’t enough exhaust energy to spool the turbo.
I was about to bring that up, the Detroit 71 series is kinda forgotten by most, not as common nowadays as cat 3406 or big cam cummins, They really fell off hard
@@WillBilly. E.P.A. Killed the Cummins along with most other things I hold dear
@@WillBilly. meant to say Detroit. I may or may not be a little drunk
Yep the old school d.d. 2 cycles were all blown and some had both blowers and turbos. We had a few come thru the shop i used to work at and we had a very small group of guys that could work on them. The messed up part is this was back in the day of mechanical fuel injection no cofuser to screw it up.
@@davidgirod6684 the old Detroits had blowers yes but they are still naturally aspirated as the blower doesn't really create boost and without the blower the engine wouldn't run
Great content! Really enjoy learning from you guys!!! I bought a brand new Volvo S 90 in 2018 and was surprised that the 2.0 L AWD T6 engine could do 315hp. That's when I first learned about supercharged and turbocharged engines at same time. Its a marvel of power. Really fun to drive, plenty of boost and no lag at all. No need to buy a super car to experience it. Mine was even luckier at 22k under MSRP.
Back in 03' I was a yacht broker and listed a boat for a family friend down river. It was a custom aluminum fishing boat with a Volvo KAD32P Diesel with a Dual Prop outdrive. It had turbo fed roots blower stock and that 22' boat did 44 Knots no problem. I had to pilot it twice from Puget Island to Portland Or. and the 90 some mile trip used 14 gallons both times at 44 Knots the whole way.
I was thinking of doing this to my car and than this video pops out. That's a lot of useful info that I needed since I'm currently doing some research. You guys have inspired me a lot to mod my car, so thanks a lot for everything
Sequential turbos and variable turbos solved the issue though, haven't they? Also, is the twincharged motor in the GLE the same as the e53 AMG?
Yes, BMW made a sequential twin turbo on their 335i platform. Smaller turbo for low to mid and a bigger turbo for mid to high. Some companies combined it in one turbo using vein system. I believe the 90s Japanese cars (Skylines, RX-7 and Supras) were already doing this similarly though. Not sequentially though.
You're right.
Twin charged, twin sequential turbos with electric super charger and motor for extra torque.
1.6 l 4 banger making 750 hp ez
Still some miniscule lag, and a blower is still more efficient, and provides more oompf, at really low rpms.
Furthermore, I think that you can increase the turbo size, since you're not restricted by a smaller turbo.
Also, who says that you can't put a sequential turbo setup *after* the blower?
Twin scroll turbos are the new standard. There really isn't any reason to be single scroll except cost. Sequential turbos, twin turbos, and twin charged engines are too complicated AND expensive. It seems like a decent size engine like 2.5L I4 or 3L I6 with a single medium sized twin scroll turbo with a short and narrow intake system with a throttle body that don’t close completely (like Porche) would be best overall.
diesel engines used this tech long before
K&N air filters require cleaning and oil which takes some time. But the K&N Gold oil filters are my go to
0:57, K&N filters miss fine abrasive particles like Donut Media missed the Volvo T6 and T8.
Never had an issue caused by a k&n.
@@realeyes4734 unless you're doing used oil analysis across multiple vehicles you're unlikely to notice the difference, but an engine with the K&N will wear at a faster rate than the same engine with stock filters. If you're okay with that for the perceived performance benefit that's your choice, but it's good to be aware of the pros and cons 🍻
Yep, don’t know of many people who actually clean and oil the filters as needed.
@@realeyes4734 Always kept getting dirty maf issues even when cleaning and oiling the filter often. One day I wiped the inside of the intake tube with a wet paper towel and it was all dusty. Needless to say, the K&N filters don't seem like they are as effective as paper for filtration.
@@MikeyG003 I buy preoiled filters. And most k&n filters don't need to be oiled regularly so idk what you were thinking.
Day 228 of asking Donut to bring old B2B back
yeah i miss it too, also nice pfp
They should bring back science garage
Mind if I hop on that train
I admit I miss it too
Dude you failed to mention one of my favorite vehicles, one of the most well known for twin charging. The Chevy Cobalt SS came with a supercharger from 04-07, then in 08 they switch to a turbo from 08-10, meaning it is one the BEST and EASIEST to twin charge, since it had factory super and turbo charges widely available and easily installed, it was cheap and simple(and not guesswork or much math involved) to twin that baby up. I wanna get one so bad you can push over 300hp through that tiny little Cobalt I love them.
You guys produce amazing content. Well presented, funny and yet super informative. Finally, decades after buying them in Gran Turismo 1 and 2 I understand what an intercooler does.
An episode on that 1.4 TSI would be neat. I love the episodes where you guys dig into some details that make normal cars unique and special because of their design and reliability of certain systems so the average guy has an idea what to look for when buying a used car.
U are right.
+1 vote for 1.4
It wasn't very reliable and didn't get made for very long
Common job in my workshop is to rebuild the 1.4 due to the pistons cracking. The engine isn’t great at all.
1.6 FSI 🫡
That engine was a disaster
From WWII Detroit made 2 stroke Diesel engines with a roots style blower and a turbo. The 92 series had 92 inches per cylinder in V6, V9. V12 and V16 configurations. I have 2 6V92s and an 8V71. The 8V71 engine was designed as a million mile engine. The original 8V71NA put out 318HP and 863 ft/lbs of torque @ 2100 rpm with a total displacement of 568 cubic inches.
I was hoping for someone to comment about Detroit 2 strokes. Though technically they where twin charged, the purpose of the blower was to scavage exhaust. Since Detroits had no exhaust valves and cylinder ports instead due to the 2 strike design, the blower essentially blew the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder thru the ports near bottom dead center.
I've never personally seen one but I've heard that the aw11 MR2 supercharged with the 4AGZE is relatively easy to twin charge. And if you could do that then you could probably also twin charge a Previa, which no one can deny would be bad to the bone.
I’m not even a “car guy” and I have notifs turned on 😂. Quality content and I learn something new every time.
I worked on a 4.3 V6 S10 in the 90s with a roots and a turbo.
It's too much darn math,we did it with a custom intake, a sensor switched cluch and a wastegate.
It's a little confusing when you say "they're pumping the same amount of air regardless of engine speed." I mean, I understand what you're saying, but technically, just like the engine itself, the higher the RPM the more air they're pumping. You're referring to the previous sentence when you said "per crank rotation." It just caught me off guard the way you said it and I had to re-watch it again.
I'm glad you covered the differences between a Roots blower and a twin-screw supercharger. Some people, myself included, don't really consider a Roots blower to be a real supercharger, as it doesn't actually compress the air. It's really just a positive displacement air pump, not a compressor. By the definition of the word "supercharger," a Roots blower doesn't meet this criteria. However, as the term is so often applied to Roots blowers, I don't bother with the semantics, however I will always refer to them as blowers.
I agree. Back in the day they were always called blowers.
Congrats on 6M guys. Been here since 3M. You guys deserve it. Best car channel on YT
There is always the way of running the Turbo to a Blow Thru Carburetor that is sitting on top of a Supercharger. And the Air\Fuel mix that is getting push/pulled into the supercharger helps keep things cool. Simpler.
Honestly, I hit like immediately after Jeremiah's musical intro. All I want for Christmas is a playlist of 90s covers by Jeremiah to get me in the zone at work. New merch idea?
There were some old engines (possibly aircraft? Can’t remember) That had what is essentially a turbo and a centrifugal supercharger combined into one unit. A single turbo-style compressor housing with both a crank pulley and exhaust turbine on the other end. The idea was that the crank drive would spool up the massive turbo, then disengage via a clutch once there was enough exhaust to keep it spooling via the turbine 👍🏻
Big two stroke train engines did that. EMD 710 567 and 645 series. I wouldnt be suprised at all if the big two strokes in ships did it too.
AMG does some cool stuff with turbos by splitting the turbine and impeller and burying the turbine inside the V. Hot stays hot and cold stays cold, and minimize system volume to reduce lag. More recently they’ve gone a step further and cut the mechanical link between turbine and impeller by using a system of generator on the turbine and electric motor on the impeller. More flexible packaging and zero lag.
Polestar 1: am I a joke to you?
No good reason but I love rotary engines and now wish to hear a twin charged rotary engine.
check out Rob Dahm here on youtube he's an absolute rotary guru... Peace!
So many people are talking about Volvo's new engines, specifically in the T6 and T8 drivetrain systems, but after having worked as a Volvo automotive technician for a decent amount of time, and having come in from having loved Volvo's beforehand, I would never buy one of them. The amount of issues they have is insane, the number of superchargers we've had to pull out to reseal is crazy. Not toention the fact that the differential and gear drive in the ERAD setup that is complete crap, to the point that we literally always had one or more in a bay to have these replaced, really changed my mind on buying one lol
You could have ended this video in 58 seconds and I would have still like it for the laughs. Love the way y'all do entertaining information videos a great way to get people to learn.
Dont forget Volvo's, their new hybrid uses Twin Chargers.
Love this clip bro!! I've must of watched it like 6 times, cause I'm trying to decide whT to put in my 2006 300C SRT8.
Turbo turbo turbo!
so hard to find stuff on twin charged motors... thank you... love this
The mk2 Skoda Fabia Vrs and polo gti also came with a 1.4 twin charged engine but they were really unreliable and usually went through engines
Had to come back to this video. I have a 97 prelude, and many big dreams with it, you as well as Big Mike and John Cody Bowman have been a huge inspiration for me. I like the more unusual builds or events, such as I love Hill climb and time attack more than other forms of racing. My dream has been, at least since about late 2019 when I got the car, to twin change my car. I plan to never sell it though many people sell there first cars. If I sold it, I'd be selling a huge part of myself. I love what yall do and have been a sub since before science garage was a thing, RIP lol. Keep doing what you do best, informing the new car community and just teaching us. I'm not sure if anyone at Donut will read this but if you do, Thank you from the bottom of my heart. And next HI LOW, do a FWD honda, might be a bit more reliable than the Z's and Subie's lol. But seriously thank you from Roxanne (the 97 Lude) and myself.
This would have been a great Science Garage episode. Man I miss those. You still did a good job on this
Oh you forgot the Volvo T8 engine. It’s a twin charged 2 liter coupled with a hybrid power train.
No hate Ben watching for a while. This is the best period of content you guys had.
This episode is interesting cause it's one of my dream to tune a car both turbocharging it and adding a supercharger to it.
same here bro.
Actually, there are more than just 8 twin charged engines. Almost any turbocharged 2 stroke diesel is actually twincharged. Locomotives even took the concept a step further and added a clutched turbocharger. At slow speeds, the turbo is engine driven like a centrifugal supercharger, and at higher speeds, the increased exhaust gases allow the turbocharger shaft to spin faster than it would if it was strictly engine driven.
It's a cool concept and probably also practice, but the turbo when belt fed is still centrifugal, as opposed to positive displacement. I guess that isn't as important, though, considering the fact that a locomotive engine turns a generator for electric motors, instead of being direct drive? Cool enough concept.
@@brianwesley28 It really doesn't matter for an engine. There are disadvantages to centrifugal pumps when you get into things like very viscous fluids, but for air, you shouldn't have a problem. In the case of a 2 stroke, the supercharger, or rather blower, doesn't create boost anyway, it simply provides positive air pressure to establish airflow. The centrifugal blower is actually more efficient on an engine, because the output air isn't as choppy as you get with a positive displacement blower. That's why most blowers have twisted rotors, to reduce that chopping effect. Screw type blowers are better at it than roots blowers, but centrifugal blowers are better than both because it's constant pressure.
I tried twin charging my Cobalt SS back in my car club days, that was a nightmare as far as tuning went and it ate up a ton of space in my engine bay. The kit cost about 7 grand which was on the cheaper side since the car came supercharged from factory, and i did the install myself over the next 3 weeks. I had a few fun drives with it but stuff kept leaving me on the side of the road, or in limp mode after multiple trips to the tuner so i eventually put it back to stock and sold the kit, only to focus on beefing up the blower power and keeping things cool. Methanol injection saves lives, if youre having heat problems
More power baby from twincharged
SO CLOSE TO 6 MILL!
I have a twin charged ka24de i built in my s13 convertible. It's quite the beast. I'll be covering the details about that build on my channel soon. A twin charged car is insane to drive. It's like having v8 torque out of a 4 cylinder, and the top end keeps pulling all the way to redline. I did a compound set up on the boost. I blow the turbo through the supercharger. Plus it sounds like you are driving a 747. aircraft.
Ad ends at 2:45
You guys do such a great job with your sponsors. If I was a company I would definitely want you guys to be the ones to promote my business.
Not gonna lie, I would probably watch a compilation video of all their sponsor segments. They're the best kind of ads, funny and watchable. XD
Love driving the S90 T8, it’s the most similar driving experience to an EV I’ve had so far.
Jeremiah great video as always. Wondering if Donut would do a video on why we don't see any twin supercharged engines? A root/twin screw paired with a centrifugal supercharger would be interesting. I know Aston Martin had a Twin-Supercharged car a while back.
Zenvo has a twin supercharged engine in the TSR-S too
ua-cam.com/video/DMdiqK68iOg/v-deo.html&ab_channel=PSESuperchargers
Love the vids, thank you guys!
I'm a bit late to this but yeah, I built my own twincharge. Still going strong after 8 or so yrs. 2liter, gt3540 blowing through intercooler in roots supercharger, clutched at 11psi, runs to 25ish psi on pump fuel. Entertaining.
Used a K&N cabin filter on my 2015 Mustang GT... Never again. Made the interior smell like the oil in the filter medium. Also lowered MPG by roughly city from 19 to 16.5 on average with the K&N intake i had installed as well. I figure it may have interferred with the air flow sensor.
The answer to this question is I don’t have the money for it
Bro can you just start like a masterclass channel or sub group that just breaks down vehicles like cars and motorcycles. These guys are definitely better than anything on tv.
Volvos are still using twin charged 4 cylinders to this day aren't they?
I’m glad you mentioned Volvos turbo supercharger unit. Oh that’s right you didn’t! Maybe the only unit that has the turbo and supercharger combined into one mechanical device. Go check it out!
the thing i love the most is that they put duration times for the sponsors. still watch them though but still love the touch
FINALLY! I have been waiting for this video for years!
Loved this video! All of your technical engineering videos are super super interesting. Thank you for doing these!
I saw an article in Performance Autotuning back in (I think) 2009ish about a guy who built a twin charged VW GTI. Long story short, it's not impossible, just extra complicated. But if you DO actually do it and you do get it working, it should work very well. The supercharger handles everything while the turbo is spooling up so power is delivered smoothly across the board.
Curious as to why manufacturers haven’t attempted to scavenge the extra boost pressure attained when the wastegate opens to retain air pressure that could then be used to help spin up the turbo once again. Seems less complicated than twin charging. Perhaps the size of the tank necessary for adequate volume retention creates too much of a packaging issue. You could use it like a shot of nitrous, in effect.
They do. That’s literally the stock setup… which is why you don’t have the lovely PSHHH sound every time you lift the throttle on stock cars. The blowoff recycles rather than venting to the atmosphere.
@@JoeIsCrazyWillman I understand what you are saying, but that’s not really what I was going for. You’re talking about recirculating the air back to the inlet side of the turbo to help reduce back pressure, which helps keep the turbo spinning. I’m referring to wastegates, either venting exhaust to the air or circumnavigating it around the turbo back to the downpipe. Why have this setup, when the turbo could run all exhaust through it, and any unused boost pressure could be held in a storage tank, to be used immediately upon acceleration request, before the turbocharger can build pressure again.
@@jeffreyarmstrong6203
It's simply not worth the effort. Gas tanks operate differently than liquid tanks, and air is lighter than exhaust gas.