I'm like 90% sure that blue little dung eater reject was stat cheating. You really need something with bleed to deal with those walking prince of death pustules.
I started my invasion journey recently at low level (25/+3 weapons) and I can finally understand why the community adores it so much. It's so much more interesting and fun than arena PVP. Keep up the good fight, red man.
I mainly PvE with my boyfriend. We find invaders to be a great opportunity for unique fun and some of my best memories from the game were from invasions. If the invader is non toxic we will engage in 1v1 duels and try to keep the experience fun for both sides. The only issue I’ve run into (outside of the toxic invaders- you know the ones who like to throw roped fetid pots after they kill you) is that there have been times I’ve been invaded after my bf severs, and in those instances being alone against a twink can be a struggle. But that is a rare occurrence. So to invaders like you, thank you for the great moments you have added to my game experience 🥰
That's honestly very nice to hear. On a side note, I think it could just be confirmation bias, but I am convinced that whenever someone initiates or ends a multiplayer session (joining or leaving) it sends out an activity flag that connects invaders. It happened to me constantly in Dark Souls 3 and I notice the same thing in Elden Ring.
@@emotionaljonxvx That makes a lot of sense. Usually, when it happens, I’m by a grace. And if I was getting ready to log off myself I’ll make it pretty easy for the invader to kill me. But I remember the first time I won my first 1v1 with an invader, I got the same rush I felt the first time I defeated Radahn. And it encouraged me to get better at the game overall, and try out more weapons and play styles. I hope more PvE players can see the positive side of invading. At the end of the day we are all just trying to have fun in a game we enjoy.
Not sure if your still with your boyfriend but i hope to god you are because you guys are the rare type of coop players who arent just there to try and fuck with invaders
I think a hilarious balance to hosts that summon absurdly high or even max level phantoms would be to open up the range for invaders. Like if a host summons a max level phantom, they run the risk of being invaded by a max level red. Might make them think twice about abusing password summoning.
Honestly, yeah. It's very silly the password has no trade-off. Like, I want people to be able to play with their friends as easily as possible. I just think it should also factor into other aspects of mulitplayer. If a host had their range and the game just added the ranges of anyone they had summoned, you'd get a lot more chances for PVP and it'd probably be a godsend for activity. Plus it would make people consider who they summon and make the call from there.
Honestly, I think the fairness of invasions is all about expecting the unexpected. Invasions a mechanic where you have basically no control over your opponent and I think that's what makes anything fair. Really, it's all self-defining. But on that note, yeah hosts do a lot of complaining about OP invaders but you'll find a lot of those same hosts actively doing everything they can to game the system. Lots of "rules for thee" type folks.
Most of my time being blue is spent watching the fight and cheering for the invader. I like to even the odds for them because I seldom see invaders winning a 3v1
It feels good when u win a 1v 3 i been invading alot at lvl 125 its so difficult but man when u win against a gank squad that abuses the taunting tongue its a fantastic feeling
I also have a relatively honest lvl 30 pvp build (named "notatwink") that only uses three talisman slots and generally just stuff you get in Limgrave, Liurnia and some items from Caelid you can get without fighting anything. It honestly works pretty well most of the time but you are still gonna have some trouble against really overleveled phantoms. It is kinda crazy how strong you can get early on tho, really shows that it's way harder to define what a twink is in ER compared to previous games.
Yeah, that's definitely a thing I struggled with when deciding what to build. I tried to be as restrictive as possible while keeping it interesting, but I was just a few game hours from a third talisman and a ton of other upgrades. The line is extremely thin in this game, so I wanted to do my best. It doesn't always work out but it's entertaining if nothing else.
@@emotionaljonxvx I'm gonna be honest, the only kinda difficult thing about getting into the academy and killing Rennala for that third talisman slot is in my opinion the red wolf of Radagon and that is only because i forgor 💀 how to dodge his combos. Took me like 1 1/2 hours to kill Rennala and half of that time was spent fighting the wolf.
I did a honest invader build like this and since literally every single pw summon is a bleed build that can bleed a honest invader in 1 hit is ridiculous
Mid lvl is the best experience I’ve had. I have a rl 60 and I’m positive in my invasions. I like the fact you challenged yourself to test out a build like this. It makes me wanna try something like this and restrict myself. Idk how long it’d last tho. I’m sure I’d go hollow after a couple ganks. Then just go back to my mid to meta lvl builds. Love your content btw!
I’m used to RL20 invaders pulling out dual nagis and when I get some space to reset they spam rain of golem arrows, I just block them and I think many others do the same
A lot of people would argue that if your build isn't "complete", then what's the point of a build at all? They need to be level 150 or higher. They need at least max Vigor with two maxed attack stats. They need to not be burdened by most limitations. They need access to _everything_ even if they end up abusing one best thing. I never understood it all. I have a level 25 with almost 40 Vigor, using Radagon's Soreseal, and I can utilize so many weapons and abilities already; the difference being that damage on both sides actually means something given that none of it is so ridiculously potent. I only wonder what Shadow of the Erdtree is going to do, where any and all levels/builds will struggle in it.
I also don’t get the point of meaningless overleveled do-everything builds, it’s a childish mindset. But 150 is not that. You absolutely cannot have max vigor and two max damage stats at 150. Maxing vigor and just one damage stat barely leaves just enough room for the END/MND you need, this is just a mathematical fact
@@LAK_770 I realize that after some more experimentation, and I will not go beyond that. As for the DLC, I was not impressed with it. It doubled down on everything both good and bad, and offered no changes to PvP, especially Invasions.
That “ungrateful little shits” part sounded personal. But on a real note,I love the content you put out man. I need to give ER pvp another try,even though it makes me want to snap my controller in half.
I would really encourage new host & their friend summons start new characters together for example, I didn’t get Elden Ring until year later and my two friends had crazy high level characters by that time but, agreed experiencing the game together made great memories to PvE & PvP encounters at lower levels would’ve been mega boring watching their crazy ass characters just nuke everything in front of me with insane late game weapons & AoW's in my first few minutes of Limgrave. Congrats on your channels rapid growth and monetization keep the grind real love & respect brother!!
It does seem like the sort of mechanic that's begging to be mishandled. I'd feel a lot better about blues if they served some other purpose but instead we got an entire faction unwittingly dedicated to gank support
@@emotionaljonxvx i know there is a bow glitch where you can use to hurt your allies, any blue that does this in elden ring is kinda based not gonna lie
He’s back with another 💎. I have friends that have beaten the game that STILL fear interacting with invasions on either side. I can think the only remedy for these types is to make the reward for killing a red very desired. What would that reward be? Wouldn’t know but maybe Jon will make a genius video about some options.
The reward is obvious. $16,000 USD in cash and an all-you-can-eat buffet that compliments any and all of your dietary restrictions. Also, when you win, FromSoftware puts your picture up on a wall in their office under a plaque that reads "Personal Heroes"
Dear Jon: Ive actually been using this 'honest invader' methodology for quite some time. I deeply appreciate the challenge of designing a functional build that is not only powerful, but stylish, given only the tools that are available in limgrave and to the starting classes. To that end, I'd like to share one of my favorite low level fashion builds with you! I call him Mad Bo, Castaway. As the name implies, he's a deranged castaway from one of the wrecked ships off the coast of limgrave. He starts as a hero class, and puts all of his levels into vigor until level 30. This, plus radagons scarseal, puts him at the vigor cap. It also gives him enough strength to two-hand a rusted anchor, with which he keeps its natural barbaric roar. In terms of other armaments, he has a misbegotten shortbow, and offhands the highland axe along with the roar medallion, so his barbaric roar attacks are quite deadly. As for armor, he wears the land if reeds chest from the samurai starting class, along with godrick soldier gauntlets and aristocrat boots. For his head, an altered commoner's headband keeps his haggard straw-colored hair (which blends nicely with the land of reeds neck fur) fully visible. Finally, I actually unlocked his third talisman slot for the express purpose of wearing the furled fingers trick mirror. I do not personally believe it counts against the two Talisman limit as it is purely aesthetic, and i have to account for its weight in the build besides. I use this castaway for both co-op and PvP. He's fashionable, he's powerful, fits in with the lore and aesthetic of the region, and is simply a joy to play.
Ah, such a wonderful build and thoughtful backstory. I love the Rusted Anchor and if I do another variant of this build, I'm gonna see if I can't manage to squeeze it in.
I tried something like this and it felt awful and i quit when i got melted by 2 overleveled casters in a small canyon. Then i tried low level invading again with a weapon that can blender people, using consumables, and trying to optimize my summon range, and what do you know, things got real fun all of the sudden
Every time I get destroyed by the OLP gank I just think to myself "I don't need this. I know better" but then I remember I'm actually incredibly foolish and I do deserve it. But no one else does. It's best to invade competently
We are so similar yet so different. I invade specifically the opposite way for essentially the same kind of reasons. I invade max level gankers at the first step because they are giving me tacit consent to use any tactic to climb the hill that is three max level low skill gankers because it's hard to say that dragon incant was op when they're three ppl chaincasting technicolor shitshows in your general direction. I'd feel bad if I was popping in on low level dudes and they're buddy doing pve But I think that's because like your video suggests the nature of the invader is set in the idea that they can use skill and intelligence to make a highly unfavorable situation work out .
Invading is a rich tapestry and I love that there's room for all sorts of styles. I need to make a max level invader some time just to try it for myself. I made one once in Dark Souls 3 and had a good time but it's been years.
I rarely summon, but when I do its for fun. me and my friends usually just enjoy melee combat. so the very rare few times we get invaders like this is always refreshing and feels like where the true pvp experience is at imo. that being said, leveling vigor is not always something to be forgone its a challenge , like going in with an underlevelled weapon. wish you the best in your endeavors.
Ive done the same ds3 build you mentioned, stayed at sl10 +1 and used only gear found in the high wall, and it was some of the most fun ive had in the game, even when put agaisnt some high level summon ganks I havent tried doing it in elden ring cause high level phantoms are even more of a menace than in ds3, so its nice getting to see what it would be like, Nice video!
dewd... youre a true gem. ty for these videos. you get it dude. btw i spent 600h building 10characters and two are still unfinished😂 your last question is mine aswell.. at this point i just dont know what to do😮💨
I can't feel more related to this video right now. Been playing Elden Ring for hundred of hours, and thiught I could try and do what ChasetheBro did two years ago. A pvp solo leveling run. While hard as hell, I thought it would be fun to engage more in the pvp. That's when I discovered just how unfair it is for invaders. I got to points where I wanted to throw my pc off the window, metaphorically speaking. It makes pvp painful outside of duels or colysseum, for the invader of course. Not only that, but people seem to argument the invader is the one to blame, as they force themselves into other player's game and ruin their "fun". The same way summoning cooperators is a thing the invader will have to bear with when in volving in this mechanic, the host is also aware that by summoning, they might get invaded too. It's a mechanic in the game, and thus, there is no excuse.
As a co-oper, I sometimes feel bad for the 3 v 1 invader ganking and will not participate. I try to signal to the host that I want to go first in a 1 v 1, but almost inevitably the host joins in as soon as I close and I lose all interest in the fight. I’ve only invaded a few times, but I like invading as a low-level magic user who hangs back with enemies and spams spells. I don’t engage in direct fights, but I like simply making traversal a bit harder. I’m reminded of the NG+ phantoms in Dark Souls 2 that would just be in areas they weren’t before, making combats harder and more interesting.
Man i love me some low level invasions. The fights are almost always more enjoyable, last longer and are more chaotic. I also very much enjoy min maxxing a low level character to get the most out of the the least.
re: your line at the end asking hosts if they notice, I find it hard to believe that hosts would watch an invasion video. The type of hosts who seek out invasions and have pseudo fight clubs (i.e. by arranging to have you fight a blue, or fight their summon) would probably notice your build was unusually scrubby. I had the same ideas as you though, to make a build called "Limgrave League" or something. But I don't think I ever carried it out. I also put a lot less PvP time in ER than DS3, and the only invasion build I was able to enjoy success with was... low level magic twink :(.
I think co-op in Elden Ring is probably at the best it’s ever been, which doesn’t actually mean it’s incredible, but that the systems in the past kinda blew, even for just summoning randos. I can count the amount of times I’ve had the Parteienverkehr to drop a summon sign in one specific area and just wait to be summoned on one hand, compared to Elden ring, where I love that I can just golden effigy and then run around killing mobs or farming for flight pinions or other miscellaneous items. I’ve never really had the patience to wait around in one spot doing nothing. It kinda sucks though that invasions have been shafted, I tried it a handful of times and just got wrecked, I’m not good at pvp and playing sort of off-meta with no magic or consumables or anything and just a claymore with piercing strike and heavy affinity plus the Knight armor made it really hard.
The actual functionality and mechanical soundness of the game is generally much better than previous titles and the ability to send your sign to multiple locations at once is a very nice feature. Really the issues I have with Elden Ring are the limitations it imposes on invasions and multiplayer in general. Dark Souls 3 had 4 player co-op and areas dedicated to invasions. It would have been nice for them to include those things but they instead seemed to want to focus on making Elden Ring a solo adventure where you have to give up easy or expedient travel to play with friends. It just feels like a backstep in so many little ways.
Interesting take on low lvl invasions. I prefer building a Wretch and keeping them unleveled with +3/+1 weapons. It’s a fun combo of challenge to acquire gear, stats restricting gear and forcing creativity, and tons of stormveil/morne invasions where hosts are actually trying to make progress. …and killing max level phantoms with a level 1 build is my drug.
I agree that low to mid level invasions feel the best most regularly. I think a huge factor is the damage spells and AOE ashes of war take on at higher scaling. Even with your vigor leveled properly. A couple transient moonlights, a few cannon of Haima blasts, or 1-2 star caller cry’s is all it takes. If a host has 2 summons then it’s basically a bullet hell. While this can be fun. It often cuts the gameplay short one way or another. In a game where matchmaking is so unreliable. I prefer an experience that lasts a bit longer.
The damage difference between invader and host already convinced me that they we’re not gonna win even with the 2v1. Glitches/exploits are for scrubs tho.
Is that actually a thing? Sometimes it just like “there is no way this blue is lvl 30” I know twinks are very common but sometimes these blues just have way too much stuff to be just a twinkle
To me, there's no greater show of respect for an opponent and their abilities than to fight with the training wheels off. I tend to bow if I win, and feel genuinely proud if the Host/ Squad beats me, because they got me, at least in my eyes, fair and square.
That's a very good point. Bring everything you can to bear and let every player fight to the best of their ability. That's fairness through and through.
@@emotionaljonxvx Especially in ER. "It's not fair that you have later gear though" -- but it is. Nothing is stopping any new player from getting on Torrent, riding past Stormveil, and getting OP stuff instantly. Everything is fair before Leyndell imo.
Nice video. As a primary invader I’ve done RL1, 20, 30, 40, 60 and currently sitting on 90. Typically a large percentage of hosts get dropped decent armor and weapons by their OLP friends. Cool. However, for a low level invader, even a twink, you’re still at a disadvantage because you don’t have enough stats to combat 3v1s even 2v1s at times. You have to rely a lot on your skill set. At times I will agree, it can be unfair for honest PVERs, but it’s a mechanic that is incredibly important to the success of the franchise. I’m sure without it a large percentage of the current player base would not be playing ER after two years. It’s part of the ecosystem- we all have to enjoy every aspect of it.
Love the vids thank you! Low level is by far my favorite in Elden Ring (RL20 +3/+1), although I still end up mostly invading nearby only in Stormveil Castle. I easily have over 1000+ hrs on low level pvp in ER and my favorite way to play is to create Role Play/ Cosplay builds (Maldron the Assassin from Ds2 is my favorite). As invaders i think we can approach the game with a bit of restraint and decorum. Try to play at the skill level of our opponents. In a nutshell I refrain from using any unsavory "twink" equipment/spells/ashes if the host and their cooperators are struggling to survive the level or seem to be unprepared for PvP. Although all bets are off and anything goes if the cops are called or I'm facing multiple over-leveled phantoms carrying a host. Once I stopped caring about winning or losing i realized that at it's core the invasion system invites us to briefly become part of the game and the adventure of others. Now I aim for creating a memorable and fun experience for all the players involved. It can be difficult to achieve, but when others play along you can have tons of fun even when you lose. What do you think the odds are that we get another player slot (at least 3v2) for invasions in the DLC?
I think the odds of them adding another player slot or adjusting multiplayer at all are non-zero. It's just something they don't seem to care about at all for whatever reason. It'd be so easy to add so I figure it has to be a conscious choice to not do so.
I think one thing that hosts dont realize is that while a twink may pull some crazy stuff out of their ass, that does NOT make them invincible. I have a RL 30 character that I like to exclusively use frenzy spells with, and i love watching people panic roll when i use flames of frenzy or eye lasers. What said players dont ever seem to realize is that once i run out of FP, im going to have my ass handed to me on a silver platter. So no, i have absolutely zero problem with someone twinking as an invader, because at low levels, there are soft caps of how much a player can get away with without drawbacks.
This makes me want to play an invasion friendly host lol. Like the only rule is keeping taunters tongue up whenever possible but still trying to “play” the game, like just booking for the boss fog if you’re doing a run back on a boss.
It's true I loved lvl 25 weapon +3 invasions... I came across an invader when I first started and didn't really know the game he had a pulley crossbow with sleep darts I was like lvl 20 and was endlessly punished which was great and it inspired me to complete game at lvl 25 weapon + 3 and invade low level with my kit ready and also help out newbs
Its nice to see you running limgrave gear for twinking but by that mindset you could run grafted gs god build with 15 faith. It just gets too easy too early in the run. Infinitely fun though.
Dude probably got rocked so hard, they wanted to get "revenge" on all the invaders. However, since they're so dogwater at the game, they gotta resort to cheating. Lmao
If you want to be fair to honest PvE hosts, i feel it would be much more beneficial to still have your twink loadout with you and choose not to employ it when you spot honest hosts. Remove 2 talismans, only use half of your maxed out flasks et, but still keep those tools available for the off chance.
As one who hosts more than anything, I would, personally, be grateful to come across such a build. Getting wrecked isn't a problem, imo, but I've had nearly purely twinks that devour EVERY person in my world. xwx Seeing everyone getting one shotted makes invasions (at early levels) lose any and all enjoyment.
Honestly, my favorite thing to do when i twink is to pull out the "bullying sword" when i manage to kill the OL phantom, and just bully the host with a +0 Weathered Straight Sword
thank you Jon I will now invade again it’s been a month or so since I’ve played elden, but I’ve had to many hours in invading PvP unfortunately. I took a break because It was “easy” invading at low level and yes sadly I twinked at a level 40 with radagon eye
I used to hate invasions because I didn't understand them and had some pretty toxic interactions that made me stigmatize then whole pvp community. However after recently coming back to souls games after a long break I've come to love pvp as a whole. Yeah, they're some really lame people, but if you don't focus on those bad eggs you realize how brilliant this clutch truly is.
Lower levels (60) have always been more fun to me. You have to think about what you want and what you need then make sacrifices to get it to work. Higher you go, the less you sacrifice and the more samey it all feels
I like the build diversity at 40-80 a lot. Where you can make something competent but have to make a lot of tough calls about what's most important to you. No room for luxuries but enough room to experiment. I should really make more builds at those tiers but I just find activity lacking. Maybe it's a PC problem more than anything, but 30 and under is pretty consistent.
@@emotionaljonxvx exactly, I love having to choose this or that for a build not being able to have everything. 60-90 on PlayStation is pretty consistent imo but not sure what it actually compares to pc. Also it does have slow spots, usually later at night
Actually Jon, I'd say invading isn't the crime. Especially if you role play heavily like I do, the Tarnished is considered the criminal to the established Order. If you're a holy build in Leyendell, a penal soldier in Limgrave, etc., you're more like the law and order than the host is. People have to remember that the host is trying to kill the demi-gods, and even Marika/Radagon (who is still technically Elden Lord). Now, I role-play as a Rykard simp, so I'm definitely considered a criminal, but still 😂😂
For sure. There's a strong argument that invaders are protectors of an area as much as the NPCs, though without an actual territory invasion zone (along with how the Bloody and Recusant fingers are framed) I think Elden Ring is signaling that invaders are bloodthirsty murderers, nothing more, nothing less. Which I, for one, am perfectly comfortable with.
I feel like the bloody fingers are bloodthirsty murderers but the only recusant that fits that mold I think, is Anastasia the tarnished eater. The rest of the recusants seem to be tarnished who have given up on grace and fight until they die a final miserable death. I always play recusant because I’m not insane, I consciously oppose the two fingers.
Yura calls the normal bloody fingers "cessblood", cess-pit-like or sewage blood, as if Mohg's influence has made them vile and omen-like. He's from a land of perpetual warfare though, so take his trauma with a grain of salt. He also cuts the finger off and attacks an alleged red (Ravenmount) as a red, which we help him with. It's all dirty work. The recusants at least have a "heroic" ambition, as the My Thanks spirit says.
Exactly! I like to roleplay my character as either some sort of hunter or assassin sent out to target specific tarnished, or an old knight who has long since lost all sense of purpose and just fights and kills because that’s all they know; more rabid dog than human. Sometimes being the bad guy is fun!
Also want to say anyone who makes an honest or unique build is good in my book. Your gesture is not lost on me and wish more pvp players had this mindset.
I appreciate that! And honestly, I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to try this sort of thing. At most, I encourage people to try off-meta builds to see if they can make something more interesting work. But all the same, I get how hostile Elden Ring is toward PVP in general, so if people want to take the dozens of hours it takes to make a build, they're probably gonna want to make it as good as possible. If only From hadn't removed big matches and invasion zones...
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah I think the reason why nobody considers fairness in this game and in general is more human condition type stuff. For example people definitely tend to gravitate towards things that get them wins, and the cult of meta as I like to call it. But there's nothing wrong with that in particular, I feel like it's just the result of human nature. Everyone has the right to play whatever they want however they want, but there's just too many options for me to really even want to dig into the top tier meta builds. I'd rather learn useful tactics and techniques than how to make some cookie cutter build. Sadly, that is a much higher learning curve and not many people will talk about gaining skills with something that just isn't very popular/strong outside of a PVE context.
@@shambleshef Completely agree. Saint_Riot is my go-to youtuber for non-meta play. The guy just makes it work however he can and that's something I really appreciate.
Skill expression is doing more with less. I always tell the salty hosts, you don’t need levels to be good. It’s a crutch. The game can be beat at RL1. I get my min requirements for my favorite weapons with talismans and soft cap vigor at lvl 30 on wretch.
Blues in the world should allow more invaders naturally. Blues originally in dark souls are just invaders who invade the guilty. good video, i play low level and meta.
@@emotionaljonxvx normally I would, I enjoy the RPG progression of it. Idk DS3 was too linear for me, and most of the weapons I wanted to use were late game with no substitute earlier. Eventually after maybe 50 runs just to do PvP I broke. ER is much better in this regard, but it's unfortunately too big. It ends up taking a while to get the build together, and all I would do is cheese the boss and farm runes anyways so I figured I might as well cheat. I enjoy PvP a lot more this way.
Look bro i understand younwant to make an "honest" low level build but after making my lvl 30 storm knight biild i can safe say that: 1.) 4/5 invasions had PW summons forcing me to switch to the twink set up 2.) The very few times i got killed i received nothing but bm from the host and his OL summon/hunters 3.) If the game allows it, then why bother limiting yourself? Sorry bro, but it's only at low levels where the invader is an actual threat once you get to lvl 50 and onwards you'll be at a disadvantage again
I normally invade at meta but there is something satisfying about taking down overleveled phantoms at real low levels. Maybe it’s that massive rune count!. Shopping time bby 😂
Hey mate, i did just found your channel, could u do a pvp guide about low level pvp? Like what range of level u should be and how mucho u should upgrade ur weapons
I’ll add it to my list. In the meantime, a general rule of thumb is to keep your level and upgrade matched at a 10 to 1 ratio with somber weapons. For example, if you’re level 10, upgrade your weapons to +3/+1. At level 20, upgrade to +5/+2. Level 30, upgrade +7/+3. Level 40, upgrade +10/+4. That’s not all that set in stone and some people prefer higher or lower upgrades at different levels but it’s all about finding other players. With the ability to invade near and far, finding matches shouldn’t be too tough at the listed ranges but your results may vary. Because Elden Ring is so varied in progression and pacing, there isn’t really a hard-set level range for this stuff but with a large player base it doesn’t make a huge difference, so long as you aren’t drastically out of step.
I think the best option is to make an honest invader with enough stinky options in the inventory for swaps in case you face overleveleds or/and shitters.
Love your content man. I made a Limgrave-locked invader build a while back, same parameters as you, and reached the same conclusion: not worth it. Limited flasks were my biggest issue by far. If I was going to keep invading with this build, I needed to twink the flasks. But then, why stop there? I got some cool clips to post on r/BadRedMan but retired the build after 2-3 weeks.
That's all nice and dandy but I'm not playing with a fair twink when 9/10 times there's at least a 100 level difference between the host and their phantom
I love the footage in the 2nd invasion. You discuss hosts unprepared to face an invader, meanwhile the host is wearing full Vyke's set. Two years into the game, nearly everyone has something out of their range. Worrying about fairness is truly a waste of time. Both sides try their best, one dies, we move on and life continues. And no, invasions are definitely not meant for meta level, nor do they reach their perfection there, and you're definitely not a bad invader if you don't want to run away from Stars of Ruin & Elden Stars for 15 mins before being able to get a hit in. Meta is called meta precisely because it's beyond the intended experience of playing through and being invaded or co-oping. Low/mid invasions are 100% the spirit of these games. Trade-offs in the midst of the journey. "If we want preparedness, we should duel in the arena". Exactly. Invaders are there to stop hosts, and kill for enjoyment. They are the psychopaths in the dark alley. As r/badredman users often say: "be the reason they go offline", lmao (the open world IS stupid and the game IS too big, THANK YOU) "I'm doing this for you, you little shits" -- how Schwa Akari of you!
Thank you for addressing the issue of build-making. I am constantly trying to find ways to improve my process and you hit it right on the head. The little things really make a difference with staying engaged. Not just that but like you said the game is too ****** big and have to do every little task to acquire your kit. That really made it hard to keep up and actually make builds via solo gathering.
Of course! It can be really hard to stay engaged with this game because they took away all the best PVP. Gotta keep with it somehow and buildcraft is a timeless joy of trial and error.
Only takes like 4-5 hours to get all 4 talismans and finish everything . Imo you should use fair stuff but the second an OLP is there it’s on I’m using all the dirty stuff on them
You're a lot quicker than I am at build-making. I know you can certainly get the 4 talismans quickly and get your specific stuff pretty fast but every time I make a meta level build, I'm always at least 40 hours in by the time I'm done with all the questlines and whatnot. And yeah, I think it's best to give yourself options when invading. Having a powerful build is great when you can choose to play down to an opponent's level and then switch up as needed. This build was just an exercise in restriction and forcing myself to use only what I had.
@@emotionaljonxvx I should have stated it takes that long when I have transfer lol I def not getting the weapons in that time lol . Also helps I’ve made 6 twinks so far and I have the route down pretty well. Great video. You on PlayStation? I wonder if I seen you
I was doing low level invasions with spiked caestus, and I kept getting these same 2 guys and one of them had venomous fangs. He was just me but stronger lmao, I got destroyed
I've watched all your vids and while, I still hate invasions (I've hated them in every soul's games,) I still respect how you feel, but I think no matter what you say I will never like invasions in any format in any game. to me keeping pvp and pve separate is the best which i think is why I enjoy the arenas the best.
Well I appreciate your viewership regardless. I think if you haven't tried invasions much yourself, maybe give them a shot some day when you're feeling adventurous. I hated them at first but they grew on me quickly. It's an acquired taste to be sure, but there's nothing quite like it.
@@emotionaljonxvx for it goes beyond souls games I just don't like mixing pvp and pve together, I hated DMZ on modern warfare 2 too. the only souls game where invasions were semi enjoyable to me was dark souls 2 and even then, I still stuck to the arena. I do feel for you guys though it seems like with each game there stripping back on invasions as a whole
Nowadays most of the hosts are gonna be playing coop with their overleveled phantom friends. So coming prepared to face overleveled phantoms is only reasonable, since they will have stats and damage advantage even if you are a twink. Edit: Hosts get late game gear dropped to them all the time, I bet we all have seen a lvl 43ish Kevin spamming Rivers of blood with their bullgoat overlvl phantom lol
It's bound to happen. Just the nature of how the game works at this point. No invasion zones and no incentive to keep playing means a majority of hosts are either being carried by a friend who beat the game 2 years ago or are gankers looking to squeeze a little more out of the game until the DLC.
This is y i just give my low lvl self milady and. Solid armor n then stomp on lvl 700s with my lvl 50 pvp build fuck em honestly they say the same thing about invaders so plus it’s always a gank i might as well make it some what fair even tho it never is its 3v1 it cant be a twink if they all r lvl 300 against a lvl 50 the disadvantage is too high so ppl who say that are wrong a twink is someone who joins a low lvl host at high lvl and lures in invaders without doing the dungeon they sit and wait somewhere to gank the low lvl invaders at a much higher lvl and if i end up actually invading legitimate pve players that aren’t bullying invaders then i use my other weapons to make it fair Elden Ring desperately needs covenants plz Fromsoft
i wasn’t going to delete my rl 8 or 9 character after beating the game and invading with 4 tally slots and w/e i want to have equipped is my reward but idk im probably in a minority here.
No, no. You've earned it. By most measures, it'll likely be necessary. That's really my point. I just made this build to mess around and see what I could manage but generally speaking, low level invasions are supposed to be a playground for all sorts of crazy builds. No need to restrict yourself beyond what you find appealing.
@emotionaljonxvx well I tried a challenge run and I had a full bullgoat wearing upgraded firewhip weilder just shutting me down I would have appreciated having you invade instead of that lol.
The pvp is not very good you got people at round level 50 having a friend with endgame weapons and higher level or the endgame DLC weapons versus someone who is barely in the midsection of the game trying to do some PVP
low level pvp right now is atrocious after the dlc. hosts are summoning phantoms running the new, best, and overpowered gear right at the start of limgrave
@@emotionaljonxvx Are you on playstation? If so then he was most likely stat cheating. The easiest way to deal with those people (derogatory) is to use a bleed weapon. Since bleed does % damage you should be able to kill them with a few procs.
@@rigel9228 PC, so I assume CE. It doesn't happen too too often but yeah I should have been more prepared. Bleed is a good pocket option for most high defense / high HP builds anyway.
I'm not a reddit host but from what I saw in the background videos it seems that they don't treat you well most of the time when they beat you, so if they're going to behave like that when they beat you, why do them any favors?
It's mostly a way for me to change up my own invading. If the host appreciates it, that's nice but I'm really just doing a dumb experiment. Hosts, generally speaking, don't deserve any favors though. It's not really how invasions are implemented and it's not exactly wise to go against that grain, but it can be interesting.
You are trying to fix something that is beyond broken. It seems like you see this community the way you see yourself and wish for something that is simply not there.. Bro... there are millions and millions of 12 year olds who proudly say the death blight glitch is the best thing ever happened in their life. Stop arguing and start deleting other tarnished the way you want. I was an honorable duelist for a long time and realized it´s not these scrubs who ruin pvp, it´s fromsoft with not caring about it.
Hey, more power to you. I firmly believe people should invade hardcore and without mercy. This experiment, if anything, has only strengthened that resolve.
@@emotionaljonxvxYeah, the only line I wont cross is using something like the chainsaw glitch to kill other players just because they pissed me off (like certain other invader channels I could mention).
@@HalozillaEX Yeah, I'm not a glitcher just because I've had my experiments with CE and the like and it always left a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I don't blame people for doing it (particularly against other glitchers/cheaters) but it's not something that appeals to me personally. Really wish From would get on top of their patching for that sort of thing just to keep stuff level. The stupid EAC on PC does nothing except add a bunch of latency.
Man legit admits that he can't gank spank and isn't good enough to beat teams with good builds. It's a lot more fun when the stakes are higher. I love a good invasion where I’m not sure if I can win. This guy sounds like he only likes to invade people who are new and or unskilled because he can't beat a polished build. You should watch chase the bro. He’ll show you how to invade properly.
I don't like PvE anywhere near as much as PvP. There's nothing interesting to me about fighting though brainless enemies whose only objective is to kill me, at least after I've cleared a level once and gotten all of the surprises out of the way. Somehow, it appears as though Elden Ring has turned PvP into the exact same thing in most cases. PvE with extra steps.
It's a shame they don't give it as much attention as they have in previous titles. There are so many missed opportunities just begging to be explored. And it's looking like the DLC is gonna leave us high and dry on that front as well.
@@emotionaljonxvx FromSoft is mostly to blame, but it's a little discouraging when it feels like most people I invade don't even realize that I'm not an NPC invader.
It's funny just how much better my 10 +3 is than this 20 +5 solely because of gear options and better healing. I have a lot of fun at 40 too, but it's more of a mixed bag.
Bruh, that blue at the beginning was so mad, lmao. Wonder who spit in his coffee.
That type of mf and OL phantoms are the reasons I don't feel.bad for having a poison antspur in my back pocket when invading at lvl 30
Can't agree more, mi amigo.
I'm like 90% sure that blue little dung eater reject was stat cheating.
You really need something with bleed to deal with those walking prince of death pustules.
Who fucking does password summon blues? Jesus, the depth of depravity these shitters descended to XD
You know the "bad red man" twink invader that points down on your corpse? This is the "bad blue man" version.
I started my invasion journey recently at low level (25/+3 weapons) and I can finally understand why the community adores it so much. It's so much more interesting and fun than arena PVP. Keep up the good fight, red man.
I mainly PvE with my boyfriend. We find invaders to be a great opportunity for unique fun and some of my best memories from the game were from invasions. If the invader is non toxic we will engage in 1v1 duels and try to keep the experience fun for both sides. The only issue I’ve run into (outside of the toxic invaders- you know the ones who like to throw roped fetid pots after they kill you) is that there have been times I’ve been invaded after my bf severs, and in those instances being alone against a twink can be a struggle. But that is a rare occurrence. So to invaders like you, thank you for the great moments you have added to my game experience 🥰
That's honestly very nice to hear.
On a side note, I think it could just be confirmation bias, but I am convinced that whenever someone initiates or ends a multiplayer session (joining or leaving) it sends out an activity flag that connects invaders. It happened to me constantly in Dark Souls 3 and I notice the same thing in Elden Ring.
@@emotionaljonxvx That makes a lot of sense. Usually, when it happens, I’m by a grace. And if I was getting ready to log off myself I’ll make it pretty easy for the invader to kill me. But I remember the first time I won my first 1v1 with an invader, I got the same rush I felt the first time I defeated Radahn. And it encouraged me to get better at the game overall, and try out more weapons and play styles. I hope more PvE players can see the positive side of invading. At the end of the day we are all just trying to have fun in a game we enjoy.
Not sure if your still with your boyfriend but i hope to god you are because you guys are the rare type of coop players who arent just there to try and fuck with invaders
@@a3ul134 we are on a little break from Elden Ring since the new ESO chapter dropped, but we’ll be back to get ready for the DLC soon!
I think a hilarious balance to hosts that summon absurdly high or even max level phantoms would be to open up the range for invaders.
Like if a host summons a max level phantom, they run the risk of being invaded by a max level red. Might make them think twice about abusing password summoning.
Honestly, yeah. It's very silly the password has no trade-off. Like, I want people to be able to play with their friends as easily as possible. I just think it should also factor into other aspects of mulitplayer.
If a host had their range and the game just added the ranges of anyone they had summoned, you'd get a lot more chances for PVP and it'd probably be a godsend for activity. Plus it would make people consider who they summon and make the call from there.
@@emotionaljonxvx why I think invasions should of been like ds3 rune arc invasions allowed not have a gank then invasions
That's crazy. You know why?
Because that is exactly what I have been saying! Finally, someone else gets it!
I believe as long over leveled phantoms exist, there is no such thing as unfair invasions, if the unfairness comes from the host side first
Honestly, I think the fairness of invasions is all about expecting the unexpected. Invasions a mechanic where you have basically no control over your opponent and I think that's what makes anything fair. Really, it's all self-defining.
But on that note, yeah hosts do a lot of complaining about OP invaders but you'll find a lot of those same hosts actively doing everything they can to game the system. Lots of "rules for thee" type folks.
Most of my time being blue is spent watching the fight and cheering for the invader. I like to even the odds for them because I seldom see invaders winning a 3v1
Lol.... yeah 😆
The OP phantoms will save you 🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂
It feels good when u win a 1v 3 i been invading alot at lvl 125 its so difficult but man when u win against a gank squad that abuses the taunting tongue its a fantastic feeling
I also have a relatively honest lvl 30 pvp build (named "notatwink") that only uses three talisman slots and generally just stuff you get in Limgrave, Liurnia and some items from Caelid you can get without fighting anything.
It honestly works pretty well most of the time but you are still gonna have some trouble against really overleveled phantoms.
It is kinda crazy how strong you can get early on tho, really shows that it's way harder to define what a twink is in ER compared to previous games.
Yeah, that's definitely a thing I struggled with when deciding what to build. I tried to be as restrictive as possible while keeping it interesting, but I was just a few game hours from a third talisman and a ton of other upgrades. The line is extremely thin in this game, so I wanted to do my best.
It doesn't always work out but it's entertaining if nothing else.
@@emotionaljonxvx I'm gonna be honest, the only kinda difficult thing about getting into the academy and killing Rennala for that third talisman slot is in my opinion the red wolf of Radagon and that is only because i forgor 💀 how to dodge his combos.
Took me like 1 1/2 hours to kill Rennala and half of that time was spent fighting the wolf.
@@rigel9228 He jumps so fast!
I did a honest invader build like this and since literally every single pw summon is a bleed build that can bleed a honest invader in 1 hit is ridiculous
Yeah, it just makes me reaffirm what invasions are all about. Just do whatever you want and let chaos take the world.
Mid lvl is the best experience I’ve had. I have a rl 60 and I’m positive in my invasions. I like the fact you challenged yourself to test out a build like this. It makes me wanna try something like this and restrict myself. Idk how long it’d last tho. I’m sure I’d go hollow after a couple ganks. Then just go back to my mid to meta lvl builds. Love your content btw!
Really enjoyed your commentary and perspective. Well done.
I’m used to RL20 invaders pulling out dual nagis and when I get some space to reset they spam rain of golem arrows, I just block them and I think many others do the same
How do you do against poison and rot? Lol
ua-cam.com/video/01CBMx8v7Kg/v-deo.htmlsi=gsAUiKz_QqJkHKcH
A lot of people would argue that if your build isn't "complete", then what's the point of a build at all?
They need to be level 150 or higher.
They need at least max Vigor with two maxed attack stats.
They need to not be burdened by most limitations.
They need access to _everything_ even if they end up abusing one best thing.
I never understood it all. I have a level 25 with almost 40 Vigor, using Radagon's Soreseal, and I can utilize so many weapons and abilities already; the difference being that damage on both sides actually means something given that none of it is so ridiculously potent.
I only wonder what Shadow of the Erdtree is going to do, where any and all levels/builds will struggle in it.
I also don’t get the point of meaningless overleveled do-everything builds, it’s a childish mindset. But 150 is not that. You absolutely cannot have max vigor and two max damage stats at 150. Maxing vigor and just one damage stat barely leaves just enough room for the END/MND you need, this is just a mathematical fact
@@LAK_770 I realize that after some more experimentation, and I will not go beyond that.
As for the DLC, I was not impressed with it. It doubled down on everything both good and bad, and offered no changes to PvP, especially Invasions.
That “ungrateful little shits” part sounded personal. But on a real note,I love the content you put out man. I need to give ER pvp another try,even though it makes me want to snap my controller in half.
I would really encourage new host & their friend summons start new characters together for example, I didn’t get Elden Ring until year later and my two friends had crazy high level characters by that time but, agreed experiencing the game together made great memories to PvE & PvP encounters at lower levels would’ve been mega boring watching their crazy ass characters just nuke everything in front of me with insane late game weapons & AoW's in my first few minutes of Limgrave.
Congrats on your channels rapid growth and monetization keep the grind real love & respect brother!!
I always wondered why blues exist seriously, imagine getting summoned to slay one guy who gets ganked by other 2. And then teabag him and feel good😂
It does seem like the sort of mechanic that's begging to be mishandled. I'd feel a lot better about blues if they served some other purpose but instead we got an entire faction unwittingly dedicated to gank support
@@emotionaljonxvx i know there is a bow glitch where you can use to hurt your allies, any blue that does this in elden ring is kinda based not gonna lie
I like to be summoned as blue and just watch host died, doing nothing to help ( especially if just downs fight back or try to gank )
Chase the bro inspired me to do a playthrough where i only level up from pvp
He’s back with another 💎. I have friends that have beaten the game that STILL fear interacting with invasions on either side. I can think the only remedy for these types is to make the reward for killing a red very desired. What would that reward be? Wouldn’t know but maybe Jon will make a genius video about some options.
The reward is obvious. $16,000 USD in cash and an all-you-can-eat buffet that compliments any and all of your dietary restrictions.
Also, when you win, FromSoftware puts your picture up on a wall in their office under a plaque that reads "Personal Heroes"
Dear Jon:
Ive actually been using this 'honest invader' methodology for quite some time. I deeply appreciate the challenge of designing a functional build that is not only powerful, but stylish, given only the tools that are available in limgrave and to the starting classes. To that end, I'd like to share one of my favorite low level fashion builds with you!
I call him Mad Bo, Castaway. As the name implies, he's a deranged castaway from one of the wrecked ships off the coast of limgrave. He starts as a hero class, and puts all of his levels into vigor until level 30. This, plus radagons scarseal, puts him at the vigor cap. It also gives him enough strength to two-hand a rusted anchor, with which he keeps its natural barbaric roar.
In terms of other armaments, he has a misbegotten shortbow, and offhands the highland axe along with the roar medallion, so his barbaric roar attacks are quite deadly.
As for armor, he wears the land if reeds chest from the samurai starting class, along with godrick soldier gauntlets and aristocrat boots. For his head, an altered commoner's headband keeps his haggard straw-colored hair (which blends nicely with the land of reeds neck fur) fully visible.
Finally, I actually unlocked his third talisman slot for the express purpose of wearing the furled fingers trick mirror. I do not personally believe it counts against the two Talisman limit as it is purely aesthetic, and i have to account for its weight in the build besides.
I use this castaway for both co-op and PvP. He's fashionable, he's powerful, fits in with the lore and aesthetic of the region, and is simply a joy to play.
Ah, such a wonderful build and thoughtful backstory. I love the Rusted Anchor and if I do another variant of this build, I'm gonna see if I can't manage to squeeze it in.
I tried something like this and it felt awful and i quit when i got melted by 2 overleveled casters in a small canyon. Then i tried low level invading again with a weapon that can blender people, using consumables, and trying to optimize my summon range, and what do you know, things got real fun all of the sudden
Every time I get destroyed by the OLP gank I just think to myself "I don't need this. I know better" but then I remember I'm actually incredibly foolish and I do deserve it. But no one else does. It's best to invade competently
Hear me out... Close your eyes. Imagine Owen Wilson.
Wow
Holy fuck
WOW
We are so similar yet so different. I invade specifically the opposite way for essentially the same kind of reasons.
I invade max level gankers at the first step because they are giving me tacit consent to use any tactic to climb the hill that is three max level low skill gankers because it's hard to say that dragon incant was op when they're three ppl chaincasting technicolor shitshows in your general direction.
I'd feel bad if I was popping in on low level dudes and they're buddy doing pve
But I think that's because like your video suggests the nature of the invader is set in the idea that they can use skill and intelligence to make a highly unfavorable situation work out .
Invading is a rich tapestry and I love that there's room for all sorts of styles. I need to make a max level invader some time just to try it for myself. I made one once in Dark Souls 3 and had a good time but it's been years.
@emotionaljonxvx it's definitely an adventure be sure to bring the sigma male physik kinda no better option for the blender
"chaincasting technicolor shitshows" sounds like a line in a Beat poem about Elden Ring
I rarely summon, but when I do its for fun. me and my friends usually just enjoy melee combat. so the very rare few times we get invaders like this is always refreshing and feels like where the true pvp experience is at imo. that being said, leveling vigor is not always something to be forgone its a challenge , like going in with an underlevelled weapon. wish you the best in your endeavors.
Ive done the same ds3 build you mentioned, stayed at sl10 +1 and used only gear found in the high wall, and it was some of the most fun ive had in the game, even when put agaisnt some high level summon ganks
I havent tried doing it in elden ring cause high level phantoms are even more of a menace than in ds3, so its nice getting to see what it would be like, Nice video!
dewd... youre a true gem. ty for these videos. you get it dude.
btw i spent 600h building 10characters and two are still unfinished😂
your last question is mine aswell.. at this point i just dont know what to do😮💨
I can't feel more related to this video right now. Been playing Elden Ring for hundred of hours, and thiught I could try and do what ChasetheBro did two years ago. A pvp solo leveling run. While hard as hell, I thought it would be fun to engage more in the pvp. That's when I discovered just how unfair it is for invaders. I got to points where I wanted to throw my pc off the window, metaphorically speaking.
It makes pvp painful outside of duels or colysseum, for the invader of course.
Not only that, but people seem to argument the invader is the one to blame, as they force themselves into other player's game and ruin their "fun".
The same way summoning cooperators is a thing the invader will have to bear with when in volving in this mechanic, the host is also aware that by summoning, they might get invaded too. It's a mechanic in the game, and thus, there is no excuse.
As a co-oper, I sometimes feel bad for the 3 v 1 invader ganking and will not participate. I try to signal to the host that I want to go first in a 1 v 1, but almost inevitably the host joins in as soon as I close and I lose all interest in the fight. I’ve only invaded a few times, but I like invading as a low-level magic user who hangs back with enemies and spams spells. I don’t engage in direct fights, but I like simply making traversal a bit harder. I’m reminded of the NG+ phantoms in Dark Souls 2 that would just be in areas they weren’t before, making combats harder and more interesting.
God, I miss the Dark Souls 2 NG+ experience. What a missed opportunity in every other game
But as a host I’d be pissed if you didn’t help me kill an invader. I mean I could have summoned someone else instead of you.
Man i love me some low level invasions. The fights are almost always more enjoyable, last longer and are more chaotic. I also very much enjoy min maxxing a low level character to get the most out of the the least.
re: your line at the end asking hosts if they notice, I find it hard to believe that hosts would watch an invasion video. The type of hosts who seek out invasions and have pseudo fight clubs (i.e. by arranging to have you fight a blue, or fight their summon) would probably notice your build was unusually scrubby. I had the same ideas as you though, to make a build called "Limgrave League" or something. But I don't think I ever carried it out. I also put a lot less PvP time in ER than DS3, and the only invasion build I was able to enjoy success with was... low level magic twink :(.
Yeah, I assume they would never ever watch me but hey, I'm still thinking of them.
Celebrate your hosts win and revel in the challenge you gave them. Roll play as the boss you are kings
I think co-op in Elden Ring is probably at the best it’s ever been, which doesn’t actually mean it’s incredible, but that the systems in the past kinda blew, even for just summoning randos. I can count the amount of times I’ve had the Parteienverkehr to drop a summon sign in one specific area and just wait to be summoned on one hand, compared to Elden ring, where I love that I can just golden effigy and then run around killing mobs or farming for flight pinions or other miscellaneous items. I’ve never really had the patience to wait around in one spot doing nothing. It kinda sucks though that invasions have been shafted, I tried it a handful of times and just got wrecked, I’m not good at pvp and playing sort of off-meta with no magic or consumables or anything and just a claymore with piercing strike and heavy affinity plus the Knight armor made it really hard.
*patience typo
The actual functionality and mechanical soundness of the game is generally much better than previous titles and the ability to send your sign to multiple locations at once is a very nice feature. Really the issues I have with Elden Ring are the limitations it imposes on invasions and multiplayer in general. Dark Souls 3 had 4 player co-op and areas dedicated to invasions. It would have been nice for them to include those things but they instead seemed to want to focus on making Elden Ring a solo adventure where you have to give up easy or expedient travel to play with friends. It just feels like a backstep in so many little ways.
That dude in the first clip was really tryna drive the point home with those post mortem pot throws
Interesting take on low lvl invasions.
I prefer building a Wretch and keeping them unleveled with +3/+1 weapons. It’s a fun combo of challenge to acquire gear, stats restricting gear and forcing creativity, and tons of stormveil/morne invasions where hosts are actually trying to make progress.
…and killing max level phantoms with a level 1 build is my drug.
Level 1 invasions are really cool and I need to make one. I love just how much you can get done with the bare minimum.
I agree that low to mid level invasions feel the best most regularly. I think a huge factor is the damage spells and AOE ashes of war take on at higher scaling. Even with your vigor leveled properly. A couple transient moonlights, a few cannon of Haima blasts, or 1-2 star caller cry’s is all it takes. If a host has 2 summons then it’s basically a bullet hell. While this can be fun. It often cuts the gameplay short one way or another. In a game where matchmaking is so unreliable. I prefer an experience that lasts a bit longer.
I like how the hunter at the start was using the max level glitch, and then points down
The damage difference between invader and host already convinced me that they we’re not gonna win even with the 2v1. Glitches/exploits are for scrubs tho.
Is that actually a thing? Sometimes it just like “there is no way this blue is lvl 30” I know twinks are very common but sometimes these blues just have way too much stuff to be just a twinkle
To me, there's no greater show of respect for an opponent and their abilities than to fight with the training wheels off. I tend to bow if I win, and feel genuinely proud if the Host/ Squad beats me, because they got me, at least in my eyes, fair and square.
That's a very good point. Bring everything you can to bear and let every player fight to the best of their ability. That's fairness through and through.
@@emotionaljonxvx Especially in ER. "It's not fair that you have later gear though" -- but it is. Nothing is stopping any new player from getting on Torrent, riding past Stormveil, and getting OP stuff instantly. Everything is fair before Leyndell imo.
@@ianwilliams2632But what they don’t know about that?
Nice video. As a primary invader I’ve done RL1, 20, 30, 40, 60 and currently sitting on 90.
Typically a large percentage of hosts get dropped decent armor and weapons by their OLP friends. Cool. However, for a low level invader, even a twink, you’re still at a disadvantage because you don’t have enough stats to combat 3v1s even 2v1s at times. You have to rely a lot on your skill set. At times I will agree, it can be unfair for honest PVERs, but it’s a mechanic that is incredibly important to the success of the franchise. I’m sure without it a large percentage of the current player base would not be playing ER after two years. It’s part of the ecosystem- we all have to enjoy every aspect of it.
Love the vids thank you! Low level is by far my favorite in Elden Ring (RL20 +3/+1), although I still end up mostly invading nearby only in Stormveil Castle. I easily have over 1000+ hrs on low level pvp in ER and my favorite way to play is to create Role Play/ Cosplay builds (Maldron the Assassin from Ds2 is my favorite).
As invaders i think we can approach the game with a bit of restraint and decorum. Try to play at the skill level of our opponents. In a nutshell I refrain from using any unsavory "twink" equipment/spells/ashes if the host and their cooperators are struggling to survive the level or seem to be unprepared for PvP. Although all bets are off and anything goes if the cops are called or I'm facing multiple over-leveled phantoms carrying a host.
Once I stopped caring about winning or losing i realized that at it's core the invasion system invites us to briefly become part of the game and the adventure of others. Now I aim for creating a memorable and fun experience for all the players involved. It can be difficult to achieve, but when others play along you can have tons of fun even when you lose.
What do you think the odds are that we get another player slot (at least 3v2) for invasions in the DLC?
I think the odds of them adding another player slot or adjusting multiplayer at all are non-zero. It's just something they don't seem to care about at all for whatever reason. It'd be so easy to add so I figure it has to be a conscious choice to not do so.
I think one thing that hosts dont realize is that while a twink may pull some crazy stuff out of their ass, that does NOT make them invincible. I have a RL 30 character that I like to exclusively use frenzy spells with, and i love watching people panic roll when i use flames of frenzy or eye lasers. What said players dont ever seem to realize is that once i run out of FP, im going to have my ass handed to me on a silver platter. So no, i have absolutely zero problem with someone twinking as an invader, because at low levels, there are soft caps of how much a player can get away with without drawbacks.
This makes me want to play an invasion friendly host lol. Like the only rule is keeping taunters tongue up whenever possible but still trying to “play” the game, like just booking for the boss fog if you’re doing a run back on a boss.
It's true I loved lvl 25 weapon +3 invasions... I came across an invader when I first started and didn't really know the game he had a pulley crossbow with sleep darts I was like lvl 20 and was endlessly punished which was great and it inspired me to complete game at lvl 25 weapon + 3 and invade low level with my kit ready and also help out newbs
Its nice to see you running limgrave gear for twinking but by that mindset you could run grafted gs god build with 15 faith. It just gets too easy too early in the run. Infinitely fun though.
Dude that blue at the start isn't even twinking, he's fucking cheating lmao
Dude probably got rocked so hard, they wanted to get "revenge" on all the invaders. However, since they're so dogwater at the game, they gotta resort to cheating. Lmao
I just started invading at level one just for fun😂 and I don't have no emotional reaction to people thoughts about low level invasion. Good content 👍
Low-level and mid level invasions are dope. I like like my level 33 and level 80 invasion builds.
If you want to be fair to honest PvE hosts, i feel it would be much more beneficial to still have your twink loadout with you and choose not to employ it when you spot honest hosts. Remove 2 talismans, only use half of your maxed out flasks et, but still keep those tools available for the off chance.
Yeah, that'd be a smart idea. I'm doing this to force myself to play at a specific level and not give myself any other options. I don't recommend it.
setting rules for yourself is always way more fun. it's always still twinking, but twinking is not a monolithic concept.
As one who hosts more than anything, I would, personally, be grateful to come across such a build. Getting wrecked isn't a problem, imo, but I've had nearly purely twinks that devour EVERY person in my world. xwx Seeing everyone getting one shotted makes invasions (at early levels) lose any and all enjoyment.
Honestly, my favorite thing to do when i twink is to pull out the "bullying sword" when i manage to kill the OL phantom, and just bully the host with a +0 Weathered Straight Sword
thank you Jon I will now invade again it’s been a month or so since I’ve played elden, but I’ve had to many hours in invading PvP unfortunately.
I took a break because It was “easy” invading at low level and yes sadly I twinked at a level 40 with radagon eye
Nothing sad or shameful about twinking. It's a natural part of the invasion cycle. I'm just trying to do something weird and it mostly hurts.
I used to hate invasions because I didn't understand them and had some pretty toxic interactions that made me stigmatize then whole pvp community. However after recently coming back to souls games after a long break I've come to love pvp as a whole. Yeah, they're some really lame people, but if you don't focus on those bad eggs you realize how brilliant this clutch truly is.
It can be a really mixed bag but it's worth its weight in gold.
Lower levels (60) have always been more fun to me. You have to think about what you want and what you need then make sacrifices to get it to work. Higher you go, the less you sacrifice and the more samey it all feels
I like the build diversity at 40-80 a lot. Where you can make something competent but have to make a lot of tough calls about what's most important to you. No room for luxuries but enough room to experiment. I should really make more builds at those tiers but I just find activity lacking. Maybe it's a PC problem more than anything, but 30 and under is pretty consistent.
@@emotionaljonxvx exactly, I love having to choose this or that for a build not being able to have everything.
60-90 on PlayStation is pretty consistent imo but not sure what it actually compares to pc. Also it does have slow spots, usually later at night
Especially in ER, where AoE/projectile spam begins to take over from honest souls-like tactics and hurts the long, drawn out fight potential.
This is an important point
Actually Jon, I'd say invading isn't the crime. Especially if you role play heavily like I do, the Tarnished is considered the criminal to the established Order. If you're a holy build in Leyendell, a penal soldier in Limgrave, etc., you're more like the law and order than the host is. People have to remember that the host is trying to kill the demi-gods, and even Marika/Radagon (who is still technically Elden Lord). Now, I role-play as a Rykard simp, so I'm definitely considered a criminal, but still 😂😂
For sure. There's a strong argument that invaders are protectors of an area as much as the NPCs, though without an actual territory invasion zone (along with how the Bloody and Recusant fingers are framed) I think Elden Ring is signaling that invaders are bloodthirsty murderers, nothing more, nothing less.
Which I, for one, am perfectly comfortable with.
I feel like the bloody fingers are bloodthirsty murderers but the only recusant that fits that mold I think, is Anastasia the tarnished eater.
The rest of the recusants seem to be tarnished who have given up on grace and fight until they die a final miserable death. I always play recusant because I’m not insane, I consciously oppose the two fingers.
Yura calls the normal bloody fingers "cessblood", cess-pit-like or sewage blood, as if Mohg's influence has made them vile and omen-like. He's from a land of perpetual warfare though, so take his trauma with a grain of salt. He also cuts the finger off and attacks an alleged red (Ravenmount) as a red, which we help him with. It's all dirty work.
The recusants at least have a "heroic" ambition, as the My Thanks spirit says.
Exactly! I like to roleplay my character as either some sort of hunter or assassin sent out to target specific tarnished, or an old knight who has long since lost all sense of purpose and just fights and kills because that’s all they know; more rabid dog than human.
Sometimes being the bad guy is fun!
Also want to say anyone who makes an honest or unique build is good in my book. Your gesture is not lost on me and wish more pvp players had this mindset.
I appreciate that! And honestly, I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to try this sort of thing. At most, I encourage people to try off-meta builds to see if they can make something more interesting work. But all the same, I get how hostile Elden Ring is toward PVP in general, so if people want to take the dozens of hours it takes to make a build, they're probably gonna want to make it as good as possible.
If only From hadn't removed big matches and invasion zones...
@@emotionaljonxvx Yeah I think the reason why nobody considers fairness in this game and in general is more human condition type stuff.
For example people definitely tend to gravitate towards things that get them wins, and the cult of meta as I like to call it. But there's nothing wrong with that in particular, I feel like it's just the result of human nature.
Everyone has the right to play whatever they want however they want, but there's just too many options for me to really even want to dig into the top tier meta builds.
I'd rather learn useful tactics and techniques than how to make some cookie cutter build. Sadly, that is a much higher learning curve and not many people will talk about gaining skills with something that just isn't very popular/strong outside of a PVE context.
@@shambleshef Completely agree. Saint_Riot is my go-to youtuber for non-meta play. The guy just makes it work however he can and that's something I really appreciate.
@@emotionaljonxvx Same here, he taught me a lot about how to manage in fights with the odds against you.
Not to mention he is absolutely hilarious.
Skill expression is doing more with less. I always tell the salty hosts, you don’t need levels to be good. It’s a crutch. The game can be beat at RL1. I get my min requirements for my favorite weapons with talismans and soft cap vigor at lvl 30 on wretch.
the reduvia spamming is driving me insane I don't know how to counter it, it's just a marathon until I run out of flasks
Blues in the world should allow more invaders naturally. Blues originally in dark souls are just invaders who invade the guilty. good video, i play low level and meta.
For PVP, I have a master save that basically 100% the game. Place files and boot game to have any character I could want
That's just smart planning. I'm the bad kind of lazy where I short-change myself by making myself do all the work every time like a sucker.
@@emotionaljonxvx normally I would, I enjoy the RPG progression of it. Idk DS3 was too linear for me, and most of the weapons I wanted to use were late game with no substitute earlier. Eventually after maybe 50 runs just to do PvP I broke. ER is much better in this regard, but it's unfortunately too big. It ends up taking a while to get the build together, and all I would do is cheese the boss and farm runes anyways so I figured I might as well cheat. I enjoy PvP a lot more this way.
Look bro i understand younwant to make an "honest" low level build but after making my lvl 30 storm knight biild i can safe say that:
1.) 4/5 invasions had PW summons forcing me to switch to the twink set up
2.) The very few times i got killed i received nothing but bm from the host and his OL summon/hunters
3.) If the game allows it, then why bother limiting yourself?
Sorry bro, but it's only at low levels where the invader is an actual threat once you get to lvl 50 and onwards you'll be at a disadvantage again
Oh, I completely agree. This isn't a recommendation, more of a personal challenge. I say go as hard as you can as often as possible, no restrictions.
I normally invade at meta but there is something satisfying about taking down overleveled phantoms at real low levels. Maybe it’s that massive rune count!. Shopping time bby 😂
Hey mate, i did just found your channel, could u do a pvp guide about low level pvp? Like what range of level u should be and how mucho u should upgrade ur weapons
I’ll add it to my list. In the meantime, a general rule of thumb is to keep your level and upgrade matched at a 10 to 1 ratio with somber weapons.
For example, if you’re level 10, upgrade your weapons to +3/+1. At level 20, upgrade to +5/+2. Level 30, upgrade +7/+3. Level 40, upgrade +10/+4.
That’s not all that set in stone and some people prefer higher or lower upgrades at different levels but it’s all about finding other players. With the ability to invade near and far, finding matches shouldn’t be too tough at the listed ranges but your results may vary.
Because Elden Ring is so varied in progression and pacing, there isn’t really a hard-set level range for this stuff but with a large player base it doesn’t make a huge difference, so long as you aren’t drastically out of step.
@@emotionaljonxvx ty bro
I think the best option is to make an honest invader with enough stinky options in the inventory for swaps in case you face overleveleds or/and shitters.
That's honestly a way better idea. I'm just backing myself into a corner to see how feral I'll get.
Low levels feels more balanced and how are you supposed to take on bullgoat summons with out a bit of twinking lol
Love your content man. I made a Limgrave-locked invader build a while back, same parameters as you, and reached the same conclusion: not worth it.
Limited flasks were my biggest issue by far. If I was going to keep invading with this build, I needed to twink the flasks. But then, why stop there?
I got some cool clips to post on r/BadRedMan but retired the build after 2-3 weeks.
I used to invade low or mid level with dual nagis, only switching if it's a solo host using a zweihander or claymore in which case I would mirror.
Cool, very creative build man 😂👍
@@not_ITEMless thanks bro, the mixups are crazy. they never expect the 14th running L1
Self restricted early game Twinking. I honestly not sure how many Hosts or Summons would notice especially if they are twinking with out restrictions
That's all nice and dandy but I'm not playing with a fair twink when 9/10 times there's at least a 100 level difference between the host and their phantom
That's good. You should not do this. It is bad and it hurts me. You deserve better.
I love the footage in the 2nd invasion. You discuss hosts unprepared to face an invader, meanwhile the host is wearing full Vyke's set. Two years into the game, nearly everyone has something out of their range. Worrying about fairness is truly a waste of time. Both sides try their best, one dies, we move on and life continues.
And no, invasions are definitely not meant for meta level, nor do they reach their perfection there, and you're definitely not a bad invader if you don't want to run away from Stars of Ruin & Elden Stars for 15 mins before being able to get a hit in. Meta is called meta precisely because it's beyond the intended experience of playing through and being invaded or co-oping. Low/mid invasions are 100% the spirit of these games. Trade-offs in the midst of the journey.
"If we want preparedness, we should duel in the arena". Exactly. Invaders are there to stop hosts, and kill for enjoyment. They are the psychopaths in the dark alley.
As r/badredman users often say: "be the reason they go offline", lmao
(the open world IS stupid and the game IS too big, THANK YOU)
"I'm doing this for you, you little shits" -- how Schwa Akari of you!
Thank you for addressing the issue of build-making. I am constantly trying to find ways to improve my process and you hit it right on the head. The little things really make a difference with staying engaged. Not just that but like you said the game is too ****** big and have to do every little task to acquire your kit. That really made it hard to keep up and actually make builds via solo gathering.
Of course! It can be really hard to stay engaged with this game because they took away all the best PVP. Gotta keep with it somehow and buildcraft is a timeless joy of trial and error.
The Blue in the beginning is not just over leveled... But also is 💩... The kind of people who's just interested in winning...
Agent Smith mentioned raaahh
Only takes like 4-5 hours to get all 4 talismans and finish everything . Imo you should use fair stuff but the second an OLP is there it’s on I’m using all the dirty stuff on them
You're a lot quicker than I am at build-making. I know you can certainly get the 4 talismans quickly and get your specific stuff pretty fast but every time I make a meta level build, I'm always at least 40 hours in by the time I'm done with all the questlines and whatnot.
And yeah, I think it's best to give yourself options when invading. Having a powerful build is great when you can choose to play down to an opponent's level and then switch up as needed. This build was just an exercise in restriction and forcing myself to use only what I had.
@@emotionaljonxvx I should have stated it takes that long when I have transfer lol I def not getting the weapons in that time lol . Also helps I’ve made 6 twinks so far and I have the route down pretty well. Great video. You on PlayStation? I wonder if I seen you
@@Buddyguy1988 PC unfortunately. But I do have a PS5 (for Bloodborne & Demon's Souls Re) so at some point I'll make some PSN characters.
@@emotionaljonxvx if you come to the light I’ll do you a transfer I have all the weapons at twink range +1/3 lol so i can make ur transition like cake
@@emotionaljonxvx pc is so terrible now I don’t know how anyone plays it tbh. You will never go back when you try it on ps5
If you wanna twink and have fun, venomous fangs, frost infused, with endure. +2 them at base level. Run up, endure, r1 r2. Instant frost kill
I have seen this power in action and it's great. Terrible, yes, but great.
I was doing low level invasions with spiked caestus, and I kept getting these same 2 guys and one of them had venomous fangs. He was just me but stronger lmao, I got destroyed
@@emotionaljonxvx Harry Potter reference? lol
@@OnlyWaifuYT SHHHHHHHH
I've watched all your vids and while, I still hate invasions (I've hated them in every soul's games,) I still respect how you feel, but I think no matter what you say I will never like invasions in any format in any game. to me keeping pvp and pve separate is the best which i think is why I enjoy the arenas the best.
Well I appreciate your viewership regardless. I think if you haven't tried invasions much yourself, maybe give them a shot some day when you're feeling adventurous. I hated them at first but they grew on me quickly. It's an acquired taste to be sure, but there's nothing quite like it.
@@emotionaljonxvx for it goes beyond souls games I just don't like mixing pvp and pve together, I hated DMZ on modern warfare 2 too. the only souls game where invasions were semi enjoyable to me was dark souls 2 and even then, I still stuck to the arena. I do feel for you guys though it seems like with each game there stripping back on invasions as a whole
Nowadays most of the hosts are gonna be playing coop with their overleveled phantom friends. So coming prepared to face overleveled phantoms is only reasonable, since they will have stats and damage advantage even if you are a twink.
Edit: Hosts get late game gear dropped to them all the time, I bet we all have seen a lvl 43ish Kevin spamming Rivers of blood with their bullgoat overlvl phantom lol
Bruh I love to invade, making a new build, lvl46 and all I get is people with the best stuff and high lvl summons
It's bound to happen. Just the nature of how the game works at this point. No invasion zones and no incentive to keep playing means a majority of hosts are either being carried by a friend who beat the game 2 years ago or are gankers looking to squeeze a little more out of the game until the DLC.
This is y i just give my low lvl self milady and. Solid armor n then stomp on lvl 700s with my lvl 50 pvp build fuck em honestly they say the same thing about invaders so plus it’s always a gank i might as well make it some what fair even tho it never is its 3v1 it cant be a twink if they all r lvl 300 against a lvl 50 the disadvantage is too high so ppl who say that are wrong a twink is someone who joins a low lvl host at high lvl and lures in invaders without doing the dungeon they sit and wait somewhere to gank the low lvl invaders at a much higher lvl and if i end up actually invading legitimate pve players that aren’t bullying invaders then i use my other weapons to make it fair Elden Ring desperately needs covenants plz Fromsoft
Naruto references deserve a Like right off the bat 😂👌
i wasn’t going to delete my rl 8 or 9 character after beating the game and invading with 4 tally slots and w/e i want to have equipped is my reward but idk im probably in a minority here.
No, no. You've earned it. By most measures, it'll likely be necessary. That's really my point. I just made this build to mess around and see what I could manage but generally speaking, low level invasions are supposed to be a playground for all sorts of crazy builds. No need to restrict yourself beyond what you find appealing.
only waifu sent me your way good video at least your not a monster and make it hard to live in low level areas.
Thanks for making the trip! Though I think I'm still probably a monster. I'm just self-aware
@emotionaljonxvx well I tried a challenge run and I had a full bullgoat wearing upgraded firewhip weilder just shutting me down I would have appreciated having you invade instead of that lol.
is it really such a big ask to co-op without being interrupted? not to say its particularly unfair at any level
Elden Ring PvP prima donna located
I believe that NEW players won't know what you are doing for them unless they already have prior knowledge of the game.
The pvp is not very good you got people at round level 50 having a friend with endgame weapons and higher level or the endgame DLC weapons versus someone who is barely in the midsection of the game trying to do some PVP
Level 1 invading is the best
Love me some low level shit 🎉
Based emotional Jon. This game is too fuckin long, and the open world is stupid lol
low level pvp right now is atrocious after the dlc. hosts are summoning phantoms running the new, best, and overpowered gear right at the start of limgrave
also was the blue on the first clip cheating? lmao
Ya know, I think maybe he was
He was 100% cheating he literally takes no damage
@@emotionaljonxvx Are you on playstation? If so then he was most likely stat cheating. The easiest way to deal with those people (derogatory) is to use a bleed weapon.
Since bleed does % damage you should be able to kill them with a few procs.
@@rigel9228 PC, so I assume CE. It doesn't happen too too often but yeah I should have been more prepared. Bleed is a good pocket option for most high defense / high HP builds anyway.
Yeah I was wondering why hus health never seemed to go down
like for the naruto refference
I'm not a reddit host but from what I saw in the background videos it seems that they don't treat you well most of the time when they beat you, so if they're going to behave like that when they beat you, why do them any favors?
It's mostly a way for me to change up my own invading. If the host appreciates it, that's nice but I'm really just doing a dumb experiment. Hosts, generally speaking, don't deserve any favors though. It's not really how invasions are implemented and it's not exactly wise to go against that grain, but it can be interesting.
I'll bite. I'll try your build. I'll actually reinstall the game.
I'll suffer for curiosities sake.
I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.
I love twinks too bro
Embrace being scum it’s OK it’s just a game
I'm Invading at rl 10 and get one shot by overlvl phantom but stil fun
#makelimgravegreatagain
You are trying to fix something that is beyond broken. It seems like you see this community the way you see yourself and wish for something that is simply not there.. Bro... there are millions and millions of 12 year olds who proudly say the death blight glitch is the best thing ever happened in their life. Stop arguing and start deleting other tarnished the way you want. I was an honorable duelist for a long time and realized it´s not these scrubs who ruin pvp, it´s fromsoft with not caring about it.
Nah, I have zero sympathy at this point. I will always invade with my twink builds and I will never feel bad about it.
Hey, more power to you. I firmly believe people should invade hardcore and without mercy. This experiment, if anything, has only strengthened that resolve.
@@emotionaljonxvxYeah, the only line I wont cross is using something like the chainsaw glitch to kill other players just because they pissed me off (like certain other invader channels I could mention).
@@HalozillaEX Yeah, I'm not a glitcher just because I've had my experiments with CE and the like and it always left a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I don't blame people for doing it (particularly against other glitchers/cheaters) but it's not something that appeals to me personally.
Really wish From would get on top of their patching for that sort of thing just to keep stuff level. The stupid EAC on PC does nothing except add a bunch of latency.
Man legit admits that he can't gank spank and isn't good enough to beat teams with good builds. It's a lot more fun when the stakes are higher. I love a good invasion where I’m not sure if I can win. This guy sounds like he only likes to invade people who are new and or unskilled because he can't beat a polished build. You should watch chase the bro. He’ll show you how to invade properly.
I don't like PvE anywhere near as much as PvP. There's nothing interesting to me about fighting though brainless enemies whose only objective is to kill me, at least after I've cleared a level once and gotten all of the surprises out of the way.
Somehow, it appears as though Elden Ring has turned PvP into the exact same thing in most cases. PvE with extra steps.
It's a shame they don't give it as much attention as they have in previous titles. There are so many missed opportunities just begging to be explored. And it's looking like the DLC is gonna leave us high and dry on that front as well.
@@emotionaljonxvx FromSoft is mostly to blame, but it's a little discouraging when it feels like most people I invade don't even realize that I'm not an NPC invader.
@@makochama0what’s wild is, I couldn’t disagree more, but I still love the PvP. I guess invading really is a rich tapestry.
This is the reason why I don't invade level 30 or higher, that's why i invade level 20 or lower
It's funny just how much better my 10 +3 is than this 20 +5 solely because of gear options and better healing. I have a lot of fun at 40 too, but it's more of a mixed bag.