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If there was no apartheid system in South Africa, there never would have been a uMkhonto we Sizwe. If there was no discrimination and oppression of the Kurdish population in Turkey, there never would have been a PKK. If there was no Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, there never would have been an Al-Qaed or Taliban. And if there wasn't an extremely brutal and inhuman system of chattel slavery in the French colony of Saint-Domingue, then there never would have arisen a figure as ferocious as Jean-Jacques Dessalines. MANY groups and individuals that are deemed as “terrorist” have their genesis in fighting against an oppressive regime, system, or occupier. The Palestinians are acting no differently than any other group faced with a similar situation. Oppression + Occupation = Violent Resistance. It’s a very simple equation that’s been proven time and time again. Eliminate oppression and occupation and you eliminate Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups.
“Why should we complain of their hatred for us? Eight years have they sat in the refugee camps of Gaza, and seen with their own eyes, on how we have made a homeland of the soil and the villages where they and their forefathers once lived” -Moshe Dayan, April 19th, 1956
One of the most civil and least antagonistic debates on this subject that I have ever heard. Kudos to the panel for keeping it civil and agreeing on widely known FACTS. Not having a common basis for historical facts and a shared historical narrative is another reason why this conflict drags on and on.
It was civil because you had a pro-Israeli stance on both sides of the table. You can read what Khalidi has written about Dennis Ross. Their only difference lies in how to present or justify the current apartheid regime against the Palestinians. Both sides in this debate don't believe that Palestinians should have equal rights and dignity.
@@NorseMythology-c3z 🔥 **Dennis Ross: The Status Quo Maestro** 🔥 1. **Perpetual Motion Machine** Claims to push for peace but just keeps the negotiations spinning in circles. 🌀 *“Dialogue was kept alive, but real change? Not so much.”* #EndlessTalks #NoRealChange 2. **Middleman of Mediocrity** Positions himself as a peacemaker but mostly tilts the scale in Israel’s favor. ⚖️🇮🇱 *“Mediation often meant preserving the status quo, not advancing peace.”* #StatusQuoKeeper #MediatorFail 3. **Innovation? More Like Repetition** Talks about fresh strategies but mostly rehashes old ones. 📉🔄 *“Old patterns prevailed over innovative solutions.”* #SameOldStory #InnovationFail 4. **Peace Process Procrastinator** Extended the peace process without delivering breakthroughs. ⏳🔒 *“We extended the process but never made real progress.”* #ProcessPerpetuator #BreakthroughBlocked 5. **Palestinian Window Dressing** Offers symbolic gestures while keeping real change at bay. 🚪🌿 *“Actions often felt like window dressing rather than real progress.”* #TokenGestures #SubstanceMissing 6. **Reinforcer, Not Reformer** Praised for shaping policies but mostly reinforced existing power dynamics. 📜🇮🇱 *“Reinforced entrenched positions rather than challenging them.”* #PowerReinforcer #ReformFail --- Dennis Ross may talk a big game, but his track record shows a knack for preserving the status quo rather than pushing for genuine progress. 🎭🚫 #StatusQuoMaster #DiplomaticDisguise
🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥 1. **Moderation Without Movement** Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄 *“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”* #StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral 2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs** In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫 *“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”* #DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive 3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform** He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹 *“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”* #BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk 4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding** Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪 *“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”* #TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures 5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up** While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️ *“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”* #CoverUp #ModerationMask --- In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
Blaming Israel for unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza is the most absurd thing in a conflict filled with absurdities. When Israel tries to negotiate, it gets blamed for setting conditions and retaining control when their citizens get murdered. When Israel retreats without conditions and without retaining control, somehow it gets blamed. It’s blatantly clear that this is just about blaming the Jews.
Then maybe the Jews should stop playing the victim for their own actions. We have evidence (from several sources) that Israel helped in the creation of Hamas and continued to financially support it in some bizarre 4D Chess strategy.
You couldn't be any further from the truth. Oct 7th did NOT begin on that day, it actually began close to 100 years ago (look it up, the information is readily available online). The Palestinians faced MANY brutal massacres committed by the Israeli military and Oct 7th was just another boiling point that was reached. The main criteria's for Hamas' negotiation deal is: - lift the siege and blockade and re-open Egyptian border - total governance of Gaza is done by Hamas ONLY - complete removal of occupation forces from Gaza - prisoner exchange - permanent ceasefire ... and eventually they added reconstruction of the Gaza strip since the military made it inhabitable by destroying most of the infrastructure. Netanyahu, Smotrich, Ben Gvir and Gallant ALL flat out said NO we will not accept any negotiations and must continue war on Hamas-- despite not fulfilling any of their "objectives". Even Israeli commanders, both past and present, have said that Israel has no idea what it is doing, they lack any clear goal or solution on ending this war. All of this is public information LOL... just look it up and you will see these politicians actually saying this without hesitation on camera-- in fact, they openly speak very harshly and do not care how it comes across.
Israel could have engaged multilaterally in its disengagement from Gaza. It chose not to and did not care about the consequences. Israel is not blameless in this conflict just because they are Jews. And obviously Palestine is not blameless either. At least learn to accept criticism, instead of being such an ardent nationalist.
Blah blah, it's antisemitic. That accusation has lost its meaning thanks to Israel's eagerness to slap that onto a. Critique of its government policy of murdering children and bombing hospitals, churches, mosques and schools.
Israel never unilaterally whithdrawn from Gaza, they only modified their control. They still control their airspace, their waters, their imports and exports, their drinking water, their electricity, ... And in 2007, when Hamas was voted in, Israel and the US fomented a coup to try to assassinate Hamas leader and change the leadership.
Dennis Ross is very good at building relations and stating common ground with people. I am amazed at his smooth creative ability when looking for possibilies.
"It's the occupation's fault" -- Palestinian Arabs were murdering Jews fifty years BEFORE the occupation. They were murdering Jews decades before Israel existed, decades before the Nabka. The occupation was the result of Palestinian Arab violence, not the cause of it. No wonder the Palestinian wants people to stop talking about the past -- it doesn't look good for them.
You mean the zionists that came to dispossess palestinians from europe? The ones that created terror groups to murderer and steal palestinian homes lands? Fuck off ziocuck. Try to colonize someone and this is what happens dumbfuck
I do not know what you are talkiing about but Palestinian Arabs had no state or anything like that to systematically oppress jews at that time. Systematical murder is what Israel currently doing in Gaza and West Bank. They came from other countries and stole houses of locals. That is it.
@@riskrik2924 During the Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Turks, Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs and Jews coexisted for a long time without problems, so much so that the Jewish community was quite prosperous, even with public and political positions in the empire. But around 1881, in the Muslim Arab population of Syria-Palestine, an anti-Semitic movement arose, against the Jews. This movement was made up of Palestinian Arabs, who were lower-class Islamic fundamentalists, and, angry at the Jewish prosperity , something that contrasted with their ideology, which considered the Jews less than human, and that under their religion they had the divine duty to kill all Jews like unclean pigs. Between 1881 and 1936, these different Palestinian extremist groups, mainly Islamic, attacked Jewish towns, destroying everything in their path and murdered Jewish men, women and children en masse, in a savage and bloodthirsty manner, with the same type of vicious violence, seen in the on October 7.
Muslim Arab majority treated us like second class citizens. Please educate yourself on Jewish treatment by the Arab majority . You don’t need a system to systematically oppress
It won't ever be possible. Accept that. No more bits of land for peace. They, Arabs and palestinian-hamas has never wanted peace. And will never want peace. They want the Jews out of Israel
@@JeanBod1111 I've been to Israel many times and know for a fact that Israel teaches their citizens from a young age to hate Arabs-- to prep them for the IDF when they turn 18. It is a military state that hates EVERYONE that is NOT jewish! No, they do not like Christians or other non-Arabs either-- many videos of them doing vile things to innocent tourists, priests, etc. I have been to the Palestinian side many times as well and actually prefer their warm and friendly hospitality-- which is a stark contrast to the people in the occupied interiors (Israel).
Yep, which is why the one state was the only option with three conditions: End of the Law of Return for Jews, Establish the right of return for Palestinians and Abolish the IDF.
@@talmudovsky It is the business of the resistance to defend their cause and for the world to hold Israel accountable for the atrocities they have committed against the people of Palestine.
@@SuperKripke "Yep, which is why the one state was the only option with three conditions: End of the Law of Return for Jews, Establish the right of return for Palestinians and Abolish the IDF." That just means you want the total and utter destruction of Israel, as that is what would happen. And it would mean you support it being replaced with the 23rd Arab nation of the world.
The most respectful debate i've seen on UA-cam on this heated topic, or on any topic. And I think it's because the average age of speakers was probably 70+ years old, on top of being remarkable individuals.
While the debate is important for the 'international community' - anyone arguing for the 2 state needs to convince the Israeli people that it is viable. It really does not matter what anyone else thinks or who does and does not recognize whatever. After Oct.7 - there is no one in Israel that will advocate for a 2 state solution. So a 2 state is not viable because there is no faith in it. And that really is all that matters. . . The future is to talk about a Jewish state with an Arab minority. Not everyone gets a state - and I think the Palestinians have lost their chance. Listening to Mr. Daoudi only reenforces the idea that there is absolutely no way the Israelis will allow a hostile state to form next to it. . .
Jordan is the real "palestine" , the majority of the people in this country are "palestinian" but no Pallywood activist mentions how the "palestinians" are oppressed there by the ARTIFICIALLY PLACED king
Timestamps: (02:42) Dennis Ross argues that the two-state solution is still viable. (05:47) Fleur Hassan-Nahoum argues that the two-state solution is not viable anymore. (08:55) Mohammed Dajani Daoudi argues that the two-state solution is still viable. (12:06) Elliott Abrams argues that the two-state solution is not viable anymore. (17:01) Why does Dennis Ross think that the situation between Israel and Palestine could change? (19:03) Fleur Hassan-Nahoum about the need for alternative, non-binary solutions to the issue. (26:25) Is it possible to build liberal democracies under occupation? (28:15) Were the Israeli and Palestinian people ever willing to accept a two-state solution? (34:39) What if a new educational system was created in Palestine to change the existing narrative? (38:39) Would creating a Palestinian state equate to creating a monster? (40:05) Roya Hakakian asks whether a change in the educational system should be a part of the agenda during peace negotiations. (44:59) Daniel Motulsky asks for examples of creative solutions that would not entail eternal wars. (46:34) Maryum Saifee asks how viable it is to have a Jewish democracy that is equitable and secular. (54:49) Miriam Sapiro asks about the ways to counter the threat from Iran if the two-state solution is not found. (57:32) Debaters present their closing statements.
@@OpentoDebate 🔥 **Dennis Ross: The Status Quo Maestro** 🔥 1. **Perpetual Motion Machine** Claims to push for peace but just keeps the negotiations spinning in circles. 🌀 *“Dialogue was kept alive, but real change? Not so much.”* #EndlessTalks #NoRealChange 2. **Middleman of Mediocrity** Positions himself as a peacemaker but mostly tilts the scale in Israel’s favor. ⚖️🇮🇱 *“Mediation often meant preserving the status quo, not advancing peace.”* #StatusQuoKeeper #MediatorFail 3. **Innovation? More Like Repetition** Talks about fresh strategies but mostly rehashes old ones. 📉🔄 *“Old patterns prevailed over innovative solutions.”* #SameOldStory #InnovationFail 4. **Peace Process Procrastinator** Extended the peace process without delivering breakthroughs. ⏳🔒 *“We extended the process but never made real progress.”* #ProcessPerpetuator #BreakthroughBlocked 5. **Palestinian Window Dressing** Offers symbolic gestures while keeping real change at bay. 🚪🌿 *“Actions often felt like window dressing rather than real progress.”* #TokenGestures #SubstanceMissing 6. **Reinforcer, Not Reformer** Praised for shaping policies but mostly reinforced existing power dynamics. 📜🇮🇱 *“Reinforced entrenched positions rather than challenging them.”* #PowerReinforcer #ReformFail --- Dennis Ross may talk a big game, but his track record shows a knack for preserving the status quo rather than pushing for genuine progress. 🎭🚫 #StatusQuoMaster #DiplomaticDisguise
@@OpentoDebate 🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥 1. **Moderation Without Movement** Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄 *“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”* #StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral 2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs** In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫 *“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”* #DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive 3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform** He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹 *“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”* #BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk 4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding** Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪 *“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”* #TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures 5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up** While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️ *“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”* #CoverUp #ModerationMask --- In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
Don't let her fool you, she is not as "smart" as she appears to be in this video. There is another video on UA-cam where she (Fleur) was interviewed about her thoughts regarding factual evidence that Hamas did not Rape any Israeli hostages (testimonies from released hostages debunked these claims-- the ones that said they were raped either kept changing their stories or were proven to be in another location the day Hamas took hostages), nor did they behead babies, etc. Fleur was so stumped and couldn't even think of a rebuttal to the factual evidence-- instead she kept repeating the same propaganda and acting very passive aggressive with the interviewer for even asking her what she thought... LOL. That particular video shows her true level of intelligence (very low--couldn't even argue properly and just kept repeating the propaganda), very poor use of vocabulary (even though she was the Mayor of Jerusalem) and disgraceful mannerism showed her low morale.
I am of the opinion that a two-state isn't viable any longer. The best the Palestinians can hope for are limited self-rule on certain territories of the West Bank where the palestinians are in majority like Ramallah, Nablus, Jenin, Betlehem, Hebron. Other parts of the West Bank are Israeli territories where the Israeli-Jews are in majority like the Israeli settlements on the West Bank.
Well done and completely civil. On several points there was consensus. The idea of establishing a moderate Muslim society seems like the way forward and would provide the evidence on the ground as a precursor to a Palestinian state. The debate also highlighted the importance of confronting the radical pan Islamists of Iran and their proxies. What should have been mentioned is how extensive this movement is. To enlarge the battlefield there are several countries currently dealing with extremist Islamists: Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Ethiopia, Libya, Mali, Somali, Sudan, Syria, Yemen.
There never was a 2 state "solution". Why? well for one thing there are 2 existing Arab Palestinian States - Jordan which was illegally created by the UK out of over 78% of the land set aside by international agreement [including by the Arabs - bet you forgot that] for the re-establishment of the Jewish homeland and Gaza which Israel gave to the Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" in 2005. So it would be a 4 state solution. But, it is not a solution for the simple reason that the Arabs have no interest in living side by side with Israel - their goal - as stated in their founding documents and as they repeat endlessly if you bothered to listen - is the total destruction of Israel and either the death of all of the Jews in Israel [Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad etc...] or the expulsion of every last Jew from the land [PLO/Fatah]. Until the Arab Palestinians and the rest of the Arab/Muslim world change their mind on that, there is no solution. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Thank you. I find it mind blowing how many people have been fooled by Western talk of Islam. Hamas leaders openly quote Quran verses talking about how all Jews need to be eradicated. The main reason the other Arab nations side with the Palestinians is because they’d be punished in hell if they did otherwise, according to their own scriptures. But they know the West would never accept such a goal, so they sugarcoat it, talking about how much they care for the Palestinians; and how much they hate to see land stolen. It’s honestly comical. Israel has its problems, don’t get me wrong, but the rest of the Middle East is a moral wasteland and it will never change as long as they continue trying to emulate a 7th century paedophile.
The state of Jordan had nothing to do with Palestine. It was administered differently to Palestine even when it was part of the same Mandate. The Government of Palestine never ruled east of the Jordan River, nor did the emirate of Jordan rule west of the Jordan river. Jews were not allowed to migrate into Jordan as per the deal. “The Cairo Conference was convened on 12 March 1921 by Winston Churchill, then Britain's Colonial Secretary, and lasted until 30 March. It was intended to endorse an arrangement whereby Transjordan would be added to the Palestine mandate, with Abdullah as the emir under the authority of the High Commissioner, and with the condition that the Jewish National Home provisions of the Palestine mandate would not apply there. This clearly shows that it was not illegal, Jordan was never intended to be the home of the Jews. There is also the matter of demographics. Palestine at the time of the Mandate had double the population of Jordan. It's not a viable solution for Jordan to be the home of the Palestinian Arabs. The facilities simply did not exist.
@@abdihakimjama1556 About 1921 Transjordan was split off from Palestine to be the Arab portion. It was the first "land for peace" deal- imposed by the British.
Frankly, Dennis Ross should have rather been on the 'no side" of the podium, because all the points and arguments that he made were infact consonant with what Fleur and Elliot had to say. Sadly, Dajani is out of sync. He never takes responsibility on the part of the Palestinians, but constantly blames Israel for the gross shortcomings and misdeeds of the Palestinians.
No they haven't. The Palestinian identity was invented by Arafat in 1964 as a political move to counter Zionism. That's a fact, not an opinion. @@mahamedjmal2536
'His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine.' Ernest Bevin Secretary of State in the Government of the United Kingdom PALESTINE CONFERENCE (Government Policy) HC Deb 18 February 1947 vol 433 cc985-94 This was said before "Nakba", "occupation", "illegal settlers", "apartheid", "genocide", etc. Arabs simple cannot accept any Jewish state in the Middle East.
It’s amazing the Dennis Ross with all his experience as a negotiator doesn’t realize that a “two-state” was a non-starter. The only “self-determination “ that the “Palestinians “ want is an islamic state with Jewish subjects as second class citizens. (Dhimmi). The “pro” side doesn’t understand Islam.
@@TesterBoy I agree. The alternative solution can be Emirates such as the UAE. There are 6-7 Arab clans (chamulas) living in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. They can take over the PA and Hamas and impose governance over the territories. This idea was proposed by Mordechai Kedar, an Israeli Arabist.
Not saying Israel is perfect, far from it, but the Palestinian narrative in general and in every debate always comes over as very childish and unrealistic. The truth is it is worse than just being childish, it is either people that wholly buy into the Palestinian narrative, and then can only sound childish, and those that are fully aware that they are playing a game of skewing facts and saying one thing to one side and another thing to another as a strategy. Also, they can't even say about themselves that they are far from perfect or take accountability for anything. Again, childish.
@@merubmalik8299 How many Palestinian spokespeople have you listened to? The vast majority, and I mean vast, present the most circular, basic, insightless and childlike arguments which are easily exposed and countered as facile and outright lies.
@@crispy_bagel693 I AM comparing them to the other side, that's why I've made the statement. Tell you what though, I've seen a few Arab spokespeople take their mic off and walk away from an interview but never have I seen an Israeli back away from one no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
Does Israel want peace? If it truly wants peace why it keeps building settlements in the West Bank further fragmenting Palestinian territories into disconnected enclaves with Israeli checkpoints between them? There are now 700k Jews living beyond the 1967 border, it is impossible for Israel to move them anymore. But Israel keeps building settlements. Why? What is their intention?
They don't ask for peace, they ask for justice and that justice is liberation and that liberation is "liberating Jerusalem" and liberating Jerusalem is by bringing another Islamic Caliphate which is what the muslims did historically to a jewish Land where Jerusalem was created by King Soloman and David!
As if Palestinian people haven’t already seen the horrors of war? They’ve arguably seen more of it than Israelis seeing as Israel continuously beat them and now they’ve grown accustomed to it. That’s an even worse proposition.
You seriously need to read some of the poetry coming out of Gaza. All polling is fueled at a time of conflict where Hamas only enjoys a plurality, which is within supported based on the support of resistance. It’s amazing that during war time the polling has not blown the roof in support for Hamas. So much of the liberal art of Gaza, much of which is physically destroyed and much is readily available tells a tale longing for peace. Everything before Oct 6th wasn’t peace, and still the civility of Gaza cried for it,
I'll admit it was therapeutic to watch this debate and have some hope for the future, in this terribly polarized time, where all parties wish to demonize and dehumanize the other.
All I am hearing is, Islam is the source of the issue from which Iran and the Palestinians draw inspirations for the horrors they commit. Any place that is Islamic is at risk of turning extremist as we have seen happen many times in the past, and even the most "moderate" of them still support and aspire to be like a warlord prophet that wished to destroy all of the Jews.
@@almostafa4725 Around the world, how many Jewish terror groups are there? How many wars fought in the name of Judaism? Israel is fighting a war that started with Hamas (an Islamic organisation) invading it. Islam is the cause of much of the worlds issues and has been since the formation of that religion.
27:25 it's naive to think either all Palestinians or all Israelis don't have the will. Some of both, have the will but Israel dominates the power with US support.
It never was viable, it's just like other american projects like democracy in Iraq. Total misunderstanding of history and culture. Some even say - complete disregard.
Simple and short answer is; absolutely and unequivocally NO, the two state solution is not possible after a brutal and barbaric attack on Israel 🇮🇱 on October 7th. Both Israeli and Palestinian people are all against it at the moment, like never before. In fact a two state solution was proposed 7 (seven) times since 1947. Each time Israel has graciously agreed to the conditions, while Arabs refused to accept them each and every time.
Keeping a foot on the throat of Palestinians (ruling them by martial laws) all these decades and not expect them to fight back is ridiculous. Of course they will.
Cause and effect. There was no "foot on the throat of palestinians" until they chose to start the intifadas, they were murdering Jews before the modern state of Israel existed.
Why is it only one land? Do you mean, because some god said so? The whole earth is only one land too, but different groups get their piece in peace. Israelis are willing. Why not the Palestinians?
The israeli should stop harassing those people on jerusalem and west bank.. Thia people live there for decades... Dont harass them and demolish thier houses... Leave them alone... Let them live thier ways.... Isrealis is mostly immigrants of palestina...
His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine. Ernest Bevin Secretary of State in the Government of the United Kingdom PALESTINE CONFERENCE (Government Policy) HC Deb 18 February 1947 vol 433 cc985-94 They always wanted final solution.
They didn’t want their land stolen from them by foreigners who had no right to take it. Why is the negative intent on those resisting having their land taken, and not on those intent on colonizing somebody else’s land?
@@Lurch685: I guess you're forgetting that wars have consequences? The Ottoman Turks and the Arabs of Palestine LOST the war in 1918. Losers don't get to dictate who gets what land, especially when they are on the side that started the war. The British and French were under no obligation to give up the land for self-determination. But they did. The #indigenous Jews fought on the side of the British and they were granted the right to reconstitute their _ancestral_ homeland. Two million Arabs today are Israeli citizens with equal rights and freedom of worship. Their families *accepted* life in the Jewish state in 1948. They made a very good choice... 🇮🇱🙏💙
@@almostafa4725: Thankfully the Pan-Arab state didn’t happen because the tiny region of Israel had also been promised to the #indigenous Jewish people for THEIR support in the war effort. But the Hejazi Arabs did get 99% of the land, much of it rich in oil (Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Jordan). When wars happen, alliances are formed and it's not certain who will get what, or even if your side will win the war! The British Mandate also _reneged_ on its promise to the Jews. It later favoured the Arabs in Palestine. But G-d works in mysterious ways and Israel was founded and it is here to stay. Israel is the successful start to the #rollback of Arab imperialism. I’m currently in Morocco where there are tiny glimpses of the rollback here, with the Amazigh (Berber) language finally being recognised. Kurds, Assyrians, Copts, Yazidis, Nubians, Persians, Siwans, etc. all deserve autonomy from Arabisation, if they choose it for themselves.
The answer is no, but not because the Palestinians are split, it's because of the West Bank settlements. How can you let them perpetuate the myth that Israel left Gaza when there was a medieval siege?.This council on foreign relations has gone down hill on the evidence of this terrible panel and debate.
More convinced than ever that Palestinians should not be given a state. It is not a law of nature that Palestinians should have their own state- far from it. Other options that allow for some autonomy and dignity should be pursued but only if Israel’s security is assured. If not, other options need to be considered.
My question is why should the Palestinians even get their own state? What precedent is this based on? They are not even "a people" in the sense of the Jews, Kurds, and Tibetans being "a people". Many of them have deep historical links to the land, but the majority only arrived after the Allied Powers DEFEATED the Ottoman Turks and they came seeking economic opportunities. And from that defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, the Hejazi Arabs were granted self-determination in 99% of the land in return for their support to the British (today's Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan). The #indigenous Jewish people also supported the British and were granted the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland, so long as they didn't prejudice the civil and religious rights of the occupants. Today over two million Arabs (mostly Muslim) live in Israel with equal rights. The belligerent Arabs who live in the disputed Israeli territories should be resettled elsewhere if they are still *hostile* to the Jewish state of Israel. Fleur and Elliot both had great points! And as Fleur suggested, why not look at some more creative ways to handle those 'Palestinians' who want to remain and will peacefully coexist?
So palestinians should leave their homeland and leave it for someone who can get a Israel's citizenship moving from anywhere in the world just because he is Jew?! You think peolle are stupid and you are smart or what???
@@mahshid7028 Yes, people are. Also they are oblivious and ignorant if they forget lessons of WW2. Germany lost the war and 10 million Sudeten Germans were exiled and resettled and nobody is complaining. Arabs rejected UN partition of 1947 and lost the wars they started in 1948 and 1967. So it is not to Israel to show mercy. Why 440 million strong Arab nation can not resettle 7 million Arabs most of whom actually came to the land in 20th century from various Muslim countries? Arabs have territory that 70 times bigger than one of Israel. Jordan that possesses 77% of the land of British Mandate for Palestine (the very same land that was entrusted by League of Nation to British Empire to create Jewish State) was and is a "palestinian" state. Besides arguably up to 90% of so called Arab refugees are citizens of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt. Arabs were offered two state solution several times from 1936 till 2008. Arabs rejected all of them. They should have taken the deal. As far as Law of Return for Jews, Israel is sovereign country and it is nobody's business who may come in.
@@mahshid7028: Around 100 million people have been #displaced through wars and new countries being founded in the last 110 years. They accepted that they "didn't fit" with the new country they found themselves in and they moved to a more suitable country. Why is it only the so-called 'Palestinians' who still get massive funding and publicity today? Why are they special? Around 16 million South Asians moved countries in 1947 to accommodate the new Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Do we hear from those refugees today? Do they get special refugee funding?
After all these years and Mr Ross is still living in lala land. The diplomacy he offers has failed for the last 100 years. Palestinians have to want to change first!
Glad to see Fleur Hassan open up the discussion to a broader view, such as a federation or variation of the 2020 peace plan. Too few peace voices. How many Palestinians concur with Daoudi? Didn't realize Abrams thinking had evolved. Consider perhaps the settlements - and their expansion - provide pressure for Palestinians to negotiate. What's wrong with a smaller demilitarized entity? Fleur & Elliot should work on a book together.
I think we need to redefine what we mean by a 2 state solution. A Federation of sorts with a state of Gaza and West Bank with a level of autonomy that can be agreed upon. The state of Israel would comprise the Israel-Palestine Federation. This would have to take time, probably a generation or more to implement.
What I really don't understand is why in the 2024 we see Judaism as a nationality, that's nonsense! Judaism is a religion, there's no way to create a nationality based on religion, that's pure racism, why is it okay for the Jews to turn their own religion into a nationality instead of living peacefully and practice their religion peacefully in their respective communities? How come creating a religious state is ok and fine? Why is it ok for them to have supremacy based on religion? I'm a Muslim, living in a country in which Muslims are the majority but I don't ask for an Islamic state, nationalities must not be built on religions, otherwise we will dwell in conflicts forever.
it depends which period suits you best, because Canaan over the past 4000 years was occupied by almost all empires and nations that come to mind in connection with the history of the Middle East.
@@dani-ks9cg correct 😉.But more accurate answer should be that there wasnt until end of 1970 any significant sign of palestinian selfdetermination,nationality or ethnicity.This all started to grown in palestinian arabs minds with the arrive of Yasser Arafat.Paradox is that he personelly was a Egyptian and didnt had anything in common with Palestine territory or the palestinian arabs 😂
Thinking that 9 million Jews that live in Israel, most never ever stepped foot in Germany, will suddenly decide to freely leave Israel and move to Germany, while Germany will suddenly agree to take in 9 million Jewish Israelis is not only unrealistic but also shows the level and childness mentality of the pro-Palestinian side. That's why more and more people are tired of hearing about you.
The pro pessimism arguments so complete absurd, it virtually hurst to listen to them. If the Palestinians continue on this way of confronting completely ignoring the reality, for them there will never be a solution.
Of course not. It never was. There is no debate to be had. Israel NEVER intended to allow a Palestinian state. And furthermore, the very idea is a racist conception, and tantamount to segregation, separate but equal, etc. So why spend the time and energy on this subject?
ksnest now publish law about illegal to recognize Palestine . So what kind logic even Debate to say Two-State Solution if one sides don't recognize Palestine ?
No they don’t. There has to be the will and belief in a 2 state solution. Right now neither side has either and preserving the possibility might be harmful to Israel.
@@barryklarman2720 There was a time when a majority on both sides supported the 2SS, opinions changed, they can change again, the 2SS can possibly harm Israel, but the rejection of the 2SS is guaranteed to harm Israel and it's doing it right now.
The two state solution has many variants some such as federative approaches, addressing the emotional attachment of Palestinians to the land others addressing the number of settlers who will have to be displaced in a two state solution. Each one of these have advantages and drawbacks. What is missing in all of them is a reference to the lack of support in Israel to any such solution motivated by the fear that the Palestinian state will be unstable at best and Hamas controlled at worst. Apart from the effect these concerns have on the Israeli electorate, the are also valid concerns about possible undesirable scenarios. On the Palestinian side there are issues of leadership. Today There is no Palestinian lrepresentative leadership capable of leading the creation of a peace loving stable state. There is a great deal of support for the Hamas and no belief that peace is possible. Any proposals must address these issues. What is missing in all the peace proposals is an incorporation of the element of time. There is no way to successfully create a stable peace loving state without allowing the time for the creation of leadership and understanding among Palestinians what such a process entails. The result is that peace proposals concentrate on limiting the ability of a Palestinian state to inflict damage by limiting its fighting force or by controlling its borders. What happened in Gaza illustrates that when people are determined to fight none of these are effective. The only effective tool against military disruptions is that both states are stable and peace loving. The following approach can be applied with each and every of the proposed final status solutions. The main idea is to create an implementation plan which will guarantee the creation of a stable peace loving Palestinian state. The plan will consist of the following elements: 1. The plan will be proposed by Israel so as to make its outcome attractive to Palestinians. 2. It will be non revocable standing offer. 3. It will define a desired final status. 4. It will describe A detailed staged plan with steps carried out alternatively by each of the sides. Each of the steps small enough not to entail a significant risk on the sides. 5. At each step the sides have to demonstrate their commitment to the goal of coexisting peacefully commensurate with their current abilities. Tests such as relevant school curriculum, the discourse in the street and the ability to disarm militias will be used. 6. No side commits to the final state but only to the plan 7. No external body to force implementation of the plan. The only driving force should be the desire of the sides to reach the final status and avoid wars. It is anticipated that the existence of such a plan will start a process in the Palestinian street which will bring forth public support and a leadership empowered to carry out the necessary steps.
If peace is no longer possible because of October 7, that is, October 7 in some way and for some party was useful? If peace was possible before October 7, why were some people waiting for October 7? And their waiting was not in vain because October 7 came at the right and appropriate time? October 7 has become an abstract philosophical concept like the Jewish Kabbalah.
I'm sorry, but the panelist Dajani is not adding any value to this debate whatsoever. He's chasing a "pie in the sky" with his extremely idealistic and romanticist assumptions.
🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥 1. **Moderation Without Movement** Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄 *“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”* #StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral 2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs** In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫 *“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”* #DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive 3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform** He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹 *“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”* #BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk 4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding** Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪 *“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”* #TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures 5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up** While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️ *“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”* #CoverUp #ModerationMask --- In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
I completely disagree. In order to have a completely and properly nuanced perspective on such a specifically human issue, having someone representing compassion, understanding, and peace is necessary to offset other perspectives that are more focused on strategy and politics (removing the humanity). Furthermore, Dajani is the only panelist who is able to remind the discussion of the Palestinians point of view of the Israeli occupation. Notice none of the pro-Israel panelists denied that Israel is in fact occupying territory where Palestinians live. The Israeli panelists only talk about how they've tried to, essentially "not occupy" territories in the past, but that argument is moot for children who are growing up only ever experiencing occupation now. Which, is counterproductive to creating a culture that is not able to justify hatred for Israel/Jews. This is all Dajani is reinforcing. So while his arguments might sound too emotional or idealistic, they are a completely necessary perspective to bring to the discussion that is honestly dominated by an Israeli perspective in the video. Take heed not to be easily swayed by people who project confidence and assuredness. Chances are, they've made a career out of it, regardless of what issues they present. Dajani is a necessary contrast to the more media trained politicians that come with their talking points.
@@adrianpale2342 🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥 1. **Moderation Without Movement** Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄 *“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”* #StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral 2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs** In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫 *“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”* #DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive 3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform** He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹 *“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”* #BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk 4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding** Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪 *“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”* #TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures 5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up** While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️ *“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”* #CoverUp #ModerationMask --- In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
@@chrisbarrick a state being embargoed does not make it not a state. and there are plenty of former colonies that had worse starts that did far better. so stop using imperfection as an excuse.
@@chrisbarrick india, jamaica, china, take your pick in south america, NOBODY turned out as badly as gaza, because they refuse to state craft, they choose revenge instead.
@@chrisbarrick North and South Korea. Both are states, former Japanese colonies and were hostile towards each other from the beginning of their existence, yet North Korea has a border with Russia and China they can conduct trade through, like how the Gazans have a border with Egypt that they could trade through.
I wonder whether as part of the "innovative solutions" Ms Hassan-Nahoum would consider the Jews moving back to Europe? She immigrated from Gibraltar herself only 23 years ago and sees no problem with her claim to be Israeli. No Holocaust or oppression brought her family to Israel, a narrow strip under so much contention. Why scratch her head for solutions? - her real home is right there in Europe. She should look in the mirror and see the problem.
Alternatively the Palestinians could be sent back to their original family lands: Syria, Egypt, Saudi, Jordan & Bosnia. Let the indigenous return. I am not seriously proposing this.
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If there was no apartheid system in South Africa, there never would have been a uMkhonto we Sizwe. If there was no discrimination and oppression of the Kurdish population in Turkey, there never would have been a PKK. If there was no Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, there never would have been an Al-Qaed or Taliban. And if there wasn't an extremely brutal and inhuman system of chattel slavery in the French colony of Saint-Domingue, then there never would have arisen a figure as ferocious as Jean-Jacques Dessalines.
MANY groups and individuals that are deemed as “terrorist” have their genesis in fighting against an oppressive regime, system, or occupier. The Palestinians are acting no differently than any other group faced with a similar situation.
Oppression + Occupation = Violent Resistance. It’s a very simple equation that’s been proven time and time again. Eliminate oppression and occupation and you eliminate Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups.
“Why should we complain of their hatred for us? Eight years have they sat in the refugee camps of Gaza, and seen with their own eyes, on how we have made a homeland of the soil and the villages where they and their forefathers once lived”
-Moshe Dayan, April 19th, 1956
One of the most civil and least antagonistic debates on this subject that I have ever heard. Kudos to the panel for keeping it civil and agreeing on widely known FACTS. Not having a common basis for historical facts and a shared historical narrative is another reason why this conflict drags on and on.
It was civil because you had a pro-Israeli stance on both sides of the table. You can read what Khalidi has written about Dennis Ross. Their only difference lies in how to present or justify the current apartheid regime against the Palestinians. Both sides in this debate don't believe that Palestinians should have equal rights and dignity.
😅 Two sides of the same coin pretending to debate 😂
@@NorseMythology-c3z 🔥 **Dennis Ross: The Status Quo Maestro** 🔥
1. **Perpetual Motion Machine**
Claims to push for peace but just keeps the negotiations spinning in circles. 🌀
*“Dialogue was kept alive, but real change? Not so much.”*
#EndlessTalks #NoRealChange
2. **Middleman of Mediocrity**
Positions himself as a peacemaker but mostly tilts the scale in Israel’s favor. ⚖️🇮🇱
*“Mediation often meant preserving the status quo, not advancing peace.”*
#StatusQuoKeeper #MediatorFail
3. **Innovation? More Like Repetition**
Talks about fresh strategies but mostly rehashes old ones. 📉🔄
*“Old patterns prevailed over innovative solutions.”*
#SameOldStory #InnovationFail
4. **Peace Process Procrastinator**
Extended the peace process without delivering breakthroughs. ⏳🔒
*“We extended the process but never made real progress.”*
#ProcessPerpetuator #BreakthroughBlocked
5. **Palestinian Window Dressing**
Offers symbolic gestures while keeping real change at bay. 🚪🌿
*“Actions often felt like window dressing rather than real progress.”*
#TokenGestures #SubstanceMissing
6. **Reinforcer, Not Reformer**
Praised for shaping policies but mostly reinforced existing power dynamics. 📜🇮🇱
*“Reinforced entrenched positions rather than challenging them.”*
#PowerReinforcer #ReformFail
---
Dennis Ross may talk a big game, but his track record shows a knack for preserving the status quo rather than pushing for genuine progress. 🎭🚫
#StatusQuoMaster
#DiplomaticDisguise
🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥
1. **Moderation Without Movement**
Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄
*“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”*
#StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral
2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs**
In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫
*“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”*
#DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive
3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform**
He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹
*“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”*
#BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk
4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding**
Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪
*“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”*
#TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures
5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up**
While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️
*“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”*
#CoverUp #ModerationMask
---
In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
@@chingis83 I didn't see Pallywood activists like you criticize the REAL apartheid against "palestinians" in Jordan
Blaming Israel for unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza is the most absurd thing in a conflict filled with absurdities.
When Israel tries to negotiate, it gets blamed for setting conditions and retaining control when their citizens get murdered. When Israel retreats without conditions and without retaining control, somehow it gets blamed.
It’s blatantly clear that this is just about blaming the Jews.
Then maybe the Jews should stop playing the victim for their own actions. We have evidence (from several sources) that Israel helped in the creation of Hamas and continued to financially support it in some bizarre 4D Chess strategy.
You couldn't be any further from the truth.
Oct 7th did NOT begin on that day, it actually began close to 100 years ago (look it up, the information is readily available online). The Palestinians faced MANY brutal massacres committed by the Israeli military and Oct 7th was just another boiling point that was reached.
The main criteria's for Hamas' negotiation deal is:
- lift the siege and blockade and re-open Egyptian border
- total governance of Gaza is done by Hamas ONLY
- complete removal of occupation forces from Gaza
- prisoner exchange
- permanent ceasefire
... and eventually they added reconstruction of the Gaza strip since the military made it inhabitable by destroying most of the infrastructure.
Netanyahu, Smotrich, Ben Gvir and Gallant ALL flat out said NO we will not accept any negotiations and must continue war on Hamas-- despite not fulfilling any of their "objectives".
Even Israeli commanders, both past and present, have said that Israel has no idea what it is doing, they lack any clear goal or solution on ending this war. All of this is public information LOL... just look it up and you will see these politicians actually saying this without hesitation on camera-- in fact, they openly speak very harshly and do not care how it comes across.
Israel could have engaged multilaterally in its disengagement from Gaza. It chose not to and did not care about the consequences. Israel is not blameless in this conflict just because they are Jews. And obviously Palestine is not blameless either. At least learn to accept criticism, instead of being such an ardent nationalist.
Blah blah, it's antisemitic. That accusation has lost its meaning thanks to Israel's eagerness to slap that onto a. Critique of its government policy of murdering children and bombing hospitals, churches, mosques and schools.
Israel never unilaterally whithdrawn from Gaza, they only modified their control. They still control their airspace, their waters, their imports and exports, their drinking water, their electricity, ...
And in 2007, when Hamas was voted in, Israel and the US fomented a coup to try to assassinate Hamas leader and change the leadership.
I love this debate. No shouting, calling names, etc. just pure tactful delivery of argument. What a sight to behold.
Just lies by Israel
Dennis Ross is very good at building relations and stating common ground with people. I am amazed at his smooth creative ability when looking for possibilies.
Dennis Ross is biased an nobody on the Palestinian side would ever trust him an rightly so
"It's the occupation's fault" -- Palestinian Arabs were murdering Jews fifty years BEFORE the occupation. They were murdering Jews decades before Israel existed, decades before the Nabka. The occupation was the result of Palestinian Arab violence, not the cause of it. No wonder the Palestinian wants people to stop talking about the past -- it doesn't look good for them.
You mean the zionists that came to dispossess palestinians from europe? The ones that created terror groups to murderer and steal palestinian homes lands? Fuck off ziocuck. Try to colonize someone and this is what happens dumbfuck
Since 1881, during the Ottoman Empire.
I do not know what you are talkiing about but Palestinian Arabs had no state or anything like that to systematically oppress jews at that time. Systematical murder is what Israel currently doing in Gaza and West Bank. They came from other countries and stole houses of locals. That is it.
@@riskrik2924 During the Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Turks, Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs and Jews coexisted for a long time without problems, so much so that the Jewish community was quite prosperous, even with public and political positions in the empire. But around 1881, in the Muslim Arab population of Syria-Palestine, an anti-Semitic movement arose, against the Jews. This movement was made up of Palestinian Arabs, who were lower-class Islamic fundamentalists, and, angry at the Jewish prosperity , something that contrasted with their ideology, which considered the Jews less than human, and that under their religion they had the divine duty to kill all Jews like unclean pigs. Between 1881 and 1936, these different Palestinian extremist groups, mainly Islamic, attacked Jewish towns, destroying everything in their path and murdered Jewish men, women and children en masse, in a savage and bloodthirsty manner, with the same type of vicious violence, seen in the on October 7.
Muslim Arab majority treated us like second class citizens. Please educate yourself on Jewish treatment by the Arab majority . You don’t need a system to systematically oppress
Not for another 50 to 100 years, assuming re-education of Palestinian children starts now.
Israelis need reeducation
Reeducation of what?
It won't ever be possible. Accept that.
No more bits of land for peace.
They, Arabs and palestinian-hamas has never wanted peace. And will never want peace. They want the Jews out of Israel
@@nyquil1995 For Tolerance and non violence.
@@JeanBod1111 I've been to Israel many times and know for a fact that Israel teaches their citizens from a young age to hate Arabs-- to prep them for the IDF when they turn 18. It is a military state that hates EVERYONE that is NOT jewish! No, they do not like Christians or other non-Arabs either-- many videos of them doing vile things to innocent tourists, priests, etc.
I have been to the Palestinian side many times as well and actually prefer their warm and friendly hospitality-- which is a stark contrast to the people in the occupied interiors (Israel).
It was never viable because one side exists solely to reject it.
Exactly
Which side is that?
Israel rejects
Three conditions for two state solution: plausibility, feasibility, viability. It seems that none of three are in the view.
Yep, which is why the one state was the only option with three conditions: End of the Law of Return for Jews, Establish the right of return for Palestinians and Abolish the IDF.
@@SuperKripkeIt is nobody else's business to decide whom Israel should let in or how to defend the Jewish Nation.
@@talmudovsky It is the business of the resistance to defend their cause and for the world to hold Israel accountable for the atrocities they have committed against the people of Palestine.
@@SuperKripkeIsrael outlived everyone who made its business destroying Israel.
Dog barks but caravan goes on.
@@SuperKripke "Yep, which is why the one state was the only option with three conditions: End of the Law of Return for Jews, Establish the right of return for Palestinians and Abolish the IDF."
That just means you want the total and utter destruction of Israel, as that is what would happen. And it would mean you support it being replaced with the 23rd Arab nation of the world.
The most respectful debate i've seen on UA-cam on this heated topic, or on any topic.
And I think it's because the average age of speakers was probably 70+ years old, on top of being remarkable individuals.
Because they really agree there shouldn't be a Palestinian state. They're all Zionists
While the debate is important for the 'international community' - anyone arguing for the 2 state needs to convince the Israeli people that it is viable.
It really does not matter what anyone else thinks or who does and does not recognize whatever.
After Oct.7 - there is no one in Israel that will advocate for a 2 state solution. So a 2 state is not viable because there is no faith in it.
And that really is all that matters. . .
The future is to talk about a Jewish state with an Arab minority.
Not everyone gets a state - and I think the Palestinians have lost their chance.
Listening to Mr. Daoudi only reenforces the idea that there is absolutely no way the Israelis will allow a hostile state to form next to it. . .
Jordan is the real "palestine" , the majority of the people in this country are "palestinian" but no Pallywood activist mentions how the "palestinians" are oppressed
there by the ARTIFICIALLY PLACED king
@existentialvoid
Yep
Timestamps:
(02:42) Dennis Ross argues that the two-state solution is still viable.
(05:47) Fleur Hassan-Nahoum argues that the two-state solution is not viable anymore.
(08:55) Mohammed Dajani Daoudi argues that the two-state solution is still viable.
(12:06) Elliott Abrams argues that the two-state solution is not viable anymore.
(17:01) Why does Dennis Ross think that the situation between Israel and Palestine could change?
(19:03) Fleur Hassan-Nahoum about the need for alternative, non-binary solutions to the issue.
(26:25) Is it possible to build liberal democracies under occupation?
(28:15) Were the Israeli and Palestinian people ever willing to accept a two-state solution?
(34:39) What if a new educational system was created in Palestine to change the existing narrative?
(38:39) Would creating a Palestinian state equate to creating a monster?
(40:05) Roya Hakakian asks whether a change in the educational system should be a part of the agenda during peace negotiations.
(44:59) Daniel Motulsky asks for examples of creative solutions that would not entail eternal wars.
(46:34) Maryum Saifee asks how viable it is to have a Jewish democracy that is equitable and secular.
(54:49) Miriam Sapiro asks about the ways to counter the threat from Iran if the two-state solution is not found.
(57:32) Debaters present their closing statements.
😅 Two sides of the same coin pretending to debate 😂
@@OpentoDebate 🔥 **Dennis Ross: The Status Quo Maestro** 🔥
1. **Perpetual Motion Machine**
Claims to push for peace but just keeps the negotiations spinning in circles. 🌀
*“Dialogue was kept alive, but real change? Not so much.”*
#EndlessTalks #NoRealChange
2. **Middleman of Mediocrity**
Positions himself as a peacemaker but mostly tilts the scale in Israel’s favor. ⚖️🇮🇱
*“Mediation often meant preserving the status quo, not advancing peace.”*
#StatusQuoKeeper #MediatorFail
3. **Innovation? More Like Repetition**
Talks about fresh strategies but mostly rehashes old ones. 📉🔄
*“Old patterns prevailed over innovative solutions.”*
#SameOldStory #InnovationFail
4. **Peace Process Procrastinator**
Extended the peace process without delivering breakthroughs. ⏳🔒
*“We extended the process but never made real progress.”*
#ProcessPerpetuator #BreakthroughBlocked
5. **Palestinian Window Dressing**
Offers symbolic gestures while keeping real change at bay. 🚪🌿
*“Actions often felt like window dressing rather than real progress.”*
#TokenGestures #SubstanceMissing
6. **Reinforcer, Not Reformer**
Praised for shaping policies but mostly reinforced existing power dynamics. 📜🇮🇱
*“Reinforced entrenched positions rather than challenging them.”*
#PowerReinforcer #ReformFail
---
Dennis Ross may talk a big game, but his track record shows a knack for preserving the status quo rather than pushing for genuine progress. 🎭🚫
#StatusQuoMaster
#DiplomaticDisguise
@@OpentoDebate 🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥
1. **Moderation Without Movement**
Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄
*“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”*
#StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral
2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs**
In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫
*“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”*
#DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive
3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform**
He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹
*“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”*
#BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk
4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding**
Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪
*“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”*
#TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures
5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up**
While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️
*“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”*
#CoverUp #ModerationMask
---
In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
@@swalehalisaid6437exactly
Very good debate! All of the debaters were very good. Thank you for this content!!
Thank you!
This is the first time I watch a debate about israel and palestine without hatred in debaters. The Lady is a tiger and very smart.
She is a racist that ethnic-cleansed neighborhood in Jerusalem, and hosted neo-nazis in Israel
She is the definition of malice and hatred
Don't let her fool you, she is not as "smart" as she appears to be in this video.
There is another video on UA-cam where she (Fleur) was interviewed about her thoughts regarding factual evidence that Hamas did not Rape any Israeli hostages (testimonies from released hostages debunked these claims-- the ones that said they were raped either kept changing their stories or were proven to be in another location the day Hamas took hostages), nor did they behead babies, etc. Fleur was so stumped and couldn't even think of a rebuttal to the factual evidence-- instead she kept repeating the same propaganda and acting very passive aggressive with the interviewer for even asking her what she thought... LOL.
That particular video shows her true level of intelligence (very low--couldn't even argue properly and just kept repeating the propaganda), very poor use of vocabulary (even though she was the Mayor of Jerusalem) and disgraceful mannerism showed her low morale.
Lioness
I am of the opinion that a two-state isn't viable any longer. The best the Palestinians can hope for are limited self-rule on certain territories of the West Bank where the palestinians are in majority like Ramallah, Nablus, Jenin, Betlehem, Hebron. Other parts of the West Bank are Israeli territories where the Israeli-Jews are in majority like the Israeli settlements on the West Bank.
Well done and completely civil. On several points there was consensus. The idea of establishing a moderate Muslim society seems like the way forward and would provide the evidence on the ground as a precursor to a Palestinian state. The debate also highlighted the importance of confronting the radical pan Islamists of Iran and their proxies. What should have been mentioned is how extensive this movement is. To enlarge the battlefield there are several countries currently dealing with extremist Islamists: Afghanistan,
Central African Republic, Ethiopia, Libya, Mali, Somali, Sudan, Syria, Yemen.
There never was a 2 state "solution". Why? well for one thing there are 2 existing Arab Palestinian States - Jordan which was illegally created by the UK out of over 78% of the land set aside by international agreement [including by the Arabs - bet you forgot that] for the re-establishment of the Jewish homeland and Gaza which Israel gave to the Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians" in 2005. So it would be a 4 state solution. But, it is not a solution for the simple reason that the Arabs have no interest in living side by side with Israel - their goal - as stated in their founding documents and as they repeat endlessly if you bothered to listen - is the total destruction of Israel and either the death of all of the Jews in Israel [Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad etc...] or the expulsion of every last Jew from the land [PLO/Fatah]. Until the Arab Palestinians and the rest of the Arab/Muslim world change their mind on that, there is no solution. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Thank you. I find it mind blowing how many people have been fooled by Western talk of Islam. Hamas leaders openly quote Quran verses talking about how all Jews need to be eradicated. The main reason the other Arab nations side with the Palestinians is because they’d be punished in hell if they did otherwise, according to their own scriptures. But they know the West would never accept such a goal, so they sugarcoat it, talking about how much they care for the Palestinians; and how much they hate to see land stolen. It’s honestly comical. Israel has its problems, don’t get me wrong, but the rest of the Middle East is a moral wasteland and it will never change as long as they continue trying to emulate a 7th century paedophile.
Yes, the discussion should ALWAYS start with the 1920s creation of Transjordan for the Arabs.
The state of Jordan had nothing to do with Palestine. It was administered differently to Palestine even when it was part of the same Mandate. The Government of Palestine never ruled east of the Jordan River, nor did the emirate of Jordan rule west of the Jordan river. Jews were not allowed to migrate into Jordan as per the deal.
“The Cairo Conference was convened on 12 March 1921 by Winston Churchill, then Britain's Colonial Secretary, and lasted until 30 March. It was intended to endorse an arrangement whereby Transjordan would be added to the Palestine mandate, with Abdullah as the emir under the authority of the High Commissioner, and with the condition that the Jewish National Home provisions of the Palestine mandate would not apply there. This clearly shows that it was not illegal, Jordan was never intended to be the home of the Jews.
There is also the matter of demographics. Palestine at the time of the Mandate had double the population of Jordan. It's not a viable solution for Jordan to be the home of the Palestinian Arabs. The facilities simply did not exist.
@@davesax11 Why? Jordan was separate from Palestine even when it was part of the same Mandate.
@@abdihakimjama1556 About 1921 Transjordan was split off from Palestine to be the Arab portion. It was the first "land for peace" deal- imposed by the British.
Elliott is spot on with geo-political facts.
Fantastic debate- great points by everyone.
Frankly, Dennis Ross should have rather been on the 'no side" of the podium, because all the points and arguments that he made were infact consonant with what Fleur and Elliot had to say.
Sadly, Dajani is out of sync. He never takes responsibility on the part of the Palestinians, but constantly blames Israel for the gross shortcomings and misdeeds of the Palestinians.
What are the misdeeds of the Palestinians they have been living there for thousands of years.
@@mahamedjmal2536 Lies, the "palestinian" people were INVENTED in the 1960s. Until then, the "palestinians" were Jews, Christians, Druze, and Arabs
No they haven't. The Palestinian identity was invented by Arafat in 1964 as a political move to counter Zionism. That's a fact, not an opinion.
@@mahamedjmal2536
@@mahamedjmal2536 Really? Did the 600,000 Arabs who immigrated there under the British Mandate live there for thousands of years?..
No because Palestinians don't primarily want their own country, they primarily want Israel to no longer exist. They'd choose zero state over 2.
'His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine.'
Ernest Bevin
Secretary of State in the Government of the United Kingdom
PALESTINE CONFERENCE (Government Policy)
HC Deb 18 February 1947 vol 433 cc985-94
This was said before "Nakba", "occupation", "illegal settlers", "apartheid", "genocide", etc. Arabs simple cannot accept any Jewish state in the Middle East.
@@talmudovskythis is the main quotation that Einat Wilf has used. The “Palestinians “ would rather destroy the Jewish state over having their own.
It’s amazing the Dennis Ross with all his experience as a negotiator doesn’t realize that a “two-state” was a non-starter. The only “self-determination “ that the “Palestinians “ want is an islamic state with Jewish subjects as second class citizens. (Dhimmi). The “pro” side doesn’t understand Islam.
@@TesterBoy I am glad that you pay attention to real experts such as Einat. I found that quote in the archive of British parliament.
@@TesterBoy I agree.
The alternative solution can be Emirates such as the UAE. There are 6-7 Arab clans (chamulas) living in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. They can take over the PA and Hamas and impose governance over the territories. This idea was proposed by Mordechai Kedar, an Israeli Arabist.
What is terrorism? A bullied person fighting back is not terrorism at all
Not saying Israel is perfect, far from it, but the Palestinian narrative in general and in every debate always comes over as very childish and unrealistic.
The truth is it is worse than just being childish, it is either people that wholly buy into the Palestinian narrative, and then can only sound childish, and those that are fully aware that they are playing a game of skewing facts and saying one thing to one side and another thing to another as a strategy.
Also, they can't even say about themselves that they are far from perfect or take accountability for anything. Again, childish.
Tf u on about?
@@merubmalik8299 How many Palestinian spokespeople have you listened to? The vast majority, and I mean vast, present the most circular, basic, insightless and childlike arguments which are easily exposed and countered as facile and outright lies.
What in the world are u trying to say. Talk about mindless rambling damn
@@stevecarr6175u sound very biased and not open to hearing the other side. Fact is both sides have valid arguments
@@crispy_bagel693 I AM comparing them to the other side, that's why I've made the statement. Tell you what though, I've seen a few Arab spokespeople take their mic off and walk away from an interview but never have I seen an Israeli back away from one no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
Israel has no claim to the land.Moreover it was not Arafat who said no to the two-state solution .
you guys always do the best debates
Fantastic debate with articulate, knowledgeable and courteous speakers. Thank you.
The things that Mohammed guy says are absurd
I think that I need start buying stock in a venture that aims at making pigs fly. When that work, I will start believing in the two state solution.
the main issue is the gazans don't want peace. peace is not a goal unto itself you must make people want it by forcing the horrors of war upon them.
The W Bank has tried to live in peace and what has occurred? Continual subjugation, abuse and land theft by settlers and IDF.
Does Israel want peace? If it truly wants peace why it keeps building settlements in the West Bank further fragmenting Palestinian territories into disconnected enclaves with Israeli checkpoints between them? There are now 700k Jews living beyond the 1967 border, it is impossible for Israel to move them anymore. But Israel keeps building settlements. Why? What is their intention?
They don't ask for peace, they ask for justice and that justice is liberation and that liberation is "liberating Jerusalem" and liberating Jerusalem is by bringing another Islamic Caliphate which is what the muslims did historically to a jewish Land where Jerusalem was created by King Soloman and David!
As if Palestinian people haven’t already seen the horrors of war? They’ve arguably seen more of it than Israelis seeing as Israel continuously beat them and now they’ve grown accustomed to it. That’s an even worse proposition.
You seriously need to read some of the poetry coming out of Gaza. All polling is fueled at a time of conflict where Hamas only enjoys a plurality, which is within supported based on the support of resistance. It’s amazing that during war time the polling has not blown the roof in support for Hamas. So much of the liberal art of Gaza, much of which is physically destroyed and much is readily available tells a tale longing for peace. Everything before Oct 6th wasn’t peace, and still the civility of Gaza cried for it,
There is already a 2 state solution in place: Israel and jordan(70% of the original british palestine mandate).
No. A 2 state solution will Never work.
I'll admit it was therapeutic to watch this debate and have some hope for the future, in this terribly polarized time, where all parties wish to demonize and dehumanize the other.
All I am hearing is, Islam is the source of the issue from which Iran and the Palestinians draw inspirations for the horrors they commit. Any place that is Islamic is at risk of turning extremist as we have seen happen many times in the past, and even the most "moderate" of them still support and aspire to be like a warlord prophet that wished to destroy all of the Jews.
I think you meant to say Judaism
@@almostafa4725 Around the world, how many Jewish terror groups are there? How many wars fought in the name of Judaism? Israel is fighting a war that started with Hamas (an Islamic organisation) invading it.
Islam is the cause of much of the worlds issues and has been since the formation of that religion.
27:25 it's naive to think either all Palestinians or all Israelis don't have the will. Some of both, have the will but Israel dominates the power with US support.
It never was viable, it's just like other american projects like democracy in Iraq. Total misunderstanding of history and culture. Some even say - complete disregard.
Give me my state and then see who I am….oh man, that is so dangerous.
Sharing Jerusalem is something that I do not see as being feasible.
Palestine was never born. And never will 🇮🇱
The two state solution was always naive, not just today.
Simple and short answer is; absolutely and unequivocally NO, the two state solution is not possible after a brutal and barbaric attack on Israel 🇮🇱 on October 7th. Both Israeli and Palestinian people are all against it at the moment, like never before. In fact a two state solution was proposed 7 (seven) times since 1947. Each time Israel has graciously agreed to the conditions, while Arabs refused to accept them each and every time.
Great debate, thanks!
Just believe and it will work..
yup, the pipedream of old hippies
Icarus thought the same...
Keeping a foot on the throat of Palestinians (ruling them by martial laws) all these decades and not expect them to fight back is ridiculous. Of course they will.
Cause and effect.
There was no "foot on the throat of palestinians" until they chose to start the intifadas, they were murdering Jews before the modern state of Israel existed.
This is the most one sided debate i have ever watched on the topic. Get someone on there who can articulate the palestinean side.
Let me: The Jews must leave and go back to EUROPE or Khazaria. End colonization. There, done. So simple.
Good debate.
The "two state solution" has never been viable, and never will be. It's one land only....forever.
Why is it only one land? Do you mean, because some god said so? The whole earth is only one land too, but different groups get their piece in peace. Israelis are willing. Why not the Palestinians?
Yes it is Palestine and will be remain so even if it is currently under occupation.
British and Britain never treat Gibraltar ppl as human-animal or day in/ day out lethal bullying.
Dennis Ross lives in an alternate universe
And doesn’t need to live with the downside of the risks he introduces are realized- which is very likely. Oopsie. Next idea?
The israeli should stop harassing those people on jerusalem and west bank.. Thia people live there for decades... Dont harass them and demolish thier houses... Leave them alone... Let them live thier ways.... Isrealis is mostly immigrants of palestina...
His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. There are in Palestine about 1,200,000 Arabs and 600,000 Jews. For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine.
Ernest Bevin
Secretary of State in the Government of the United Kingdom
PALESTINE CONFERENCE (Government Policy)
HC Deb 18 February 1947 vol 433 cc985-94
They always wanted final solution.
They didn’t want their land stolen from them by foreigners who had no right to take it.
Why is the negative intent on those resisting having their land taken, and not on those intent on colonizing somebody else’s land?
@@Lurch685: I guess you're forgetting that wars have consequences? The Ottoman Turks and the Arabs of Palestine LOST the war in 1918. Losers don't get to dictate who gets what land, especially when they are on the side that started the war. The British and French were under no obligation to give up the land for self-determination. But they did. The #indigenous Jews fought on the side of the British and they were granted the right to reconstitute their _ancestral_ homeland. Two million Arabs today are Israeli citizens with equal rights and freedom of worship. Their families *accepted* life in the Jewish state in 1948. They made a very good choice... 🇮🇱🙏💙
@@sandytatham3592the British promised the Arabs a pan Arab state if they revolted against the Turks
@@almostafa4725: Thankfully the Pan-Arab state didn’t happen because the tiny region of Israel had also been promised to the #indigenous Jewish people for THEIR support in the war effort. But the Hejazi Arabs did get 99% of the land, much of it rich in oil (Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Jordan). When wars happen, alliances are formed and it's not certain who will get what, or even if your side will win the war! The British Mandate also _reneged_ on its promise to the Jews. It later favoured the Arabs in Palestine. But G-d works in mysterious ways and Israel was founded and it is here to stay. Israel is the successful start to the #rollback of Arab imperialism. I’m currently in Morocco where there are tiny glimpses of the rollback here, with the Amazigh (Berber) language finally being recognised. Kurds, Assyrians, Copts, Yazidis, Nubians, Persians, Siwans, etc. all deserve autonomy from Arabisation, if they choose it for themselves.
The answer is no, but not because the Palestinians are split, it's because of the West Bank settlements. How can you let them perpetuate the myth that Israel left Gaza when there was a medieval siege?.This council on foreign relations has gone down hill on the evidence of this terrible panel and debate.
More convinced than ever that Palestinians should not be given a state. It is not a law of nature that Palestinians should have their own state- far from it. Other options that allow for some autonomy and dignity should be pursued but only if Israel’s security is assured. If not, other options need to be considered.
My question is why should the Palestinians even get their own state? What precedent is this based on? They are not even "a people" in the sense of the Jews, Kurds, and Tibetans being "a people". Many of them have deep historical links to the land, but the majority only arrived after the Allied Powers DEFEATED the Ottoman Turks and they came seeking economic opportunities. And from that defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, the Hejazi Arabs were granted self-determination in 99% of the land in return for their support to the British (today's Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan). The #indigenous Jewish people also supported the British and were granted the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland, so long as they didn't prejudice the civil and religious rights of the occupants. Today over two million Arabs (mostly Muslim) live in Israel with equal rights.
The belligerent Arabs who live in the disputed Israeli territories should be resettled elsewhere if they are still *hostile* to the Jewish state of Israel. Fleur and Elliot both had great points! And as Fleur suggested, why not look at some more creative ways to handle those 'Palestinians' who want to remain and will peacefully coexist?
So palestinians should leave their homeland and leave it for someone who can get a Israel's citizenship moving from anywhere in the world just because he is Jew?! You think peolle are stupid and you are smart or what???
Yes indeed, Fleur and Elliot are brilliant. 👌🏼👏🏼
@@mahshid7028 Yes, people are. Also they are oblivious and ignorant if they forget lessons of WW2. Germany lost the war and 10 million Sudeten Germans were exiled and resettled and nobody is complaining.
Arabs rejected UN partition of 1947 and lost the wars they started in 1948 and 1967. So it is not to Israel to show mercy.
Why 440 million strong Arab nation can not resettle 7 million Arabs most of whom actually came to the land in 20th century from various Muslim countries? Arabs have territory that 70 times bigger than one of Israel. Jordan that possesses 77% of the land of British Mandate for Palestine (the very same land that was entrusted by League of Nation to British Empire to create Jewish State) was and is a "palestinian" state. Besides arguably up to 90% of so called Arab refugees are citizens of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt.
Arabs were offered two state solution several times from 1936 till 2008. Arabs rejected all of them. They should have taken the deal.
As far as Law of Return for Jews, Israel is sovereign country and it is nobody's business who may come in.
@@talmudovsky: Very well said... 🙏
@@mahshid7028: Around 100 million people have been #displaced through wars and new countries being founded in the last 110 years. They accepted that they "didn't fit" with the new country they found themselves in and they moved to a more suitable country. Why is it only the so-called 'Palestinians' who still get massive funding and publicity today? Why are they special? Around 16 million South Asians moved countries in 1947 to accommodate the new Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Do we hear from those refugees today? Do they get special refugee funding?
After all these years and Mr Ross is still living in lala land. The diplomacy he offers has failed for the last 100 years. Palestinians have to want to change first!
Talk about how Iran is supporting Hamas and the destruction of Israel…
Glad to see Fleur Hassan open up the discussion to a broader view, such as a federation or variation of the 2020 peace plan. Too few peace voices. How many Palestinians concur with Daoudi? Didn't realize Abrams thinking had evolved. Consider perhaps the settlements - and their expansion - provide pressure for Palestinians to negotiate. What's wrong with a smaller demilitarized entity? Fleur & Elliot should work on a book together.
I think we need to redefine what we mean by a 2 state solution. A Federation of sorts with a state of Gaza and West Bank with a level of autonomy that can be agreed upon. The state of Israel would comprise the Israel-Palestine Federation. This would have to take time, probably a generation or more to implement.
Really enjoyed this debate
What I really don't understand is why in the 2024 we see Judaism as a nationality, that's nonsense! Judaism is a religion, there's no way to create a nationality based on religion, that's pure racism, why is it okay for the Jews to turn their own religion into a nationality instead of living peacefully and practice their religion peacefully in their respective communities? How come creating a religious state is ok and fine? Why is it ok for them to have supremacy based on religion? I'm a Muslim, living in a country in which Muslims are the majority but I don't ask for an Islamic state, nationalities must not be built on religions, otherwise we will dwell in conflicts forever.
Israel doesn't want two states if they wanted it it would have been done at Oslo when they recognized each other
An interessting débute,moderate and realistic
Does a solution similar to the model of Bosnia-Herzegovina work? Any thoughts?
May I ask, who occupied Palestinians before 1948?
it depends which period suits you best, because Canaan over the past 4000 years was occupied by almost all empires and nations that come to mind in connection with the history of the Middle East.
There were no "palestinians" until the 1960s
@@dani-ks9cg correct 😉.But more accurate answer should be that there wasnt until end of 1970 any significant sign of palestinian selfdetermination,nationality or ethnicity.This all started to grown in palestinian arabs minds with the arrive of Yasser Arafat.Paradox is that he personelly was a Egyptian and didnt had anything in common with Palestine territory or the palestinian arabs 😂
@@erberon82 Exactly, and instead of the world pressuring Egypt and demanding it to take back its people, the world is attacking Israel
@@dani-ks9cg lol so Israel brought them in?
sure, in germany, north for germans, south for jews.
Thinking that 9 million Jews that live in Israel, most never ever stepped foot in Germany, will suddenly decide to freely leave Israel and move to Germany, while Germany will suddenly agree to take in 9 million Jewish Israelis is not only unrealistic but also shows the level and childness mentality of the pro-Palestinian side. That's why more and more people are tired of hearing about you.
The pro pessimism arguments so complete absurd, it virtually hurst to listen to them. If the Palestinians continue on this way of confronting completely ignoring the reality, for them there will never be a solution.
Of course not. It never was. There is no debate to be had. Israel NEVER intended to allow a Palestinian state. And furthermore, the very idea is a racist conception, and tantamount to segregation, separate but equal, etc. So why spend the time and energy on this subject?
ksnest now publish law about illegal to recognize Palestine . So what kind logic even Debate to say Two-State Solution if one sides don't recognize Palestine ?
They had their chances! Let them be conquered and exiled, one side must win and one side must lose. SIMPLE.
Great video!
Phenomenal debate
The two state solution may not possible now, but all the measures necessary so it can be implemented in the future have to be taken.
No they don’t. There has to be the will and belief in a 2 state solution. Right now neither side has either and preserving the possibility might be harmful to Israel.
@@barryklarman2720 There was a time when a majority on both sides supported the 2SS, opinions changed, they can change again, the 2SS can possibly harm Israel, but the rejection of the 2SS is guaranteed to harm Israel and it's doing it right now.
The two state solution has many variants some such as federative approaches, addressing the emotional attachment of Palestinians to the land others addressing the number of settlers who will have to be displaced in a two state solution. Each one of these have advantages and drawbacks. What is missing in all of them is a reference to the lack of support in Israel to any such solution motivated by the fear that the Palestinian state will be unstable at best and Hamas controlled at worst. Apart from the effect these concerns have on the Israeli electorate, the are also valid concerns about possible undesirable scenarios. On the Palestinian side there are issues of leadership. Today There is no Palestinian lrepresentative leadership capable of leading the creation of a peace loving stable state. There is a great deal of support for the Hamas and no belief that peace is possible. Any proposals must address these issues. What is missing in all the peace proposals is an incorporation of the element of time. There is no way to successfully create a stable peace loving state without allowing the time for the creation of leadership and understanding among Palestinians what such a process entails. The result is that peace proposals concentrate on limiting the ability of a Palestinian state to inflict damage by limiting its fighting force or by controlling its borders. What happened in Gaza illustrates that when people are determined to fight none of these are effective. The only effective tool against military disruptions is that both states are stable and peace loving.
The following approach can be applied with each and every of the proposed final status solutions.
The main idea is to create an implementation plan which will guarantee the creation of a stable peace loving Palestinian state. The plan will consist of the following elements:
1. The plan will be proposed by Israel so as to make its outcome attractive to Palestinians.
2. It will be non revocable standing offer.
3. It will define a desired final status.
4. It will describe A detailed staged plan with steps carried out alternatively by each of the sides. Each of the steps small enough not to entail a significant risk on the sides.
5. At each step the sides have to demonstrate their commitment to the goal of coexisting peacefully commensurate with their current abilities. Tests such as relevant school curriculum, the discourse in the street and the ability to disarm militias will be used.
6. No side commits to the final state but only to the plan
7. No external body to force implementation of the plan. The only driving force should be the desire of the sides to reach the final status and avoid wars.
It is anticipated that the existence of such a plan will start a process in the Palestinian street which will bring forth public support and a leadership empowered to carry out the necessary steps.
Great discussion!
35:00 She was glad he asked the question but didn't answer it??
If peace is no longer possible because of October 7, that is, October 7 in some way and for some party was useful? If peace was possible before October 7, why were some people waiting for October 7? And their waiting was not in vain because October 7 came at the right and appropriate time? October 7 has become an abstract philosophical concept like the Jewish Kabbalah.
Read the Quran and you'll understand why there is no two state solution.
I'm sorry, but the panelist Dajani is not adding any value to this debate whatsoever.
He's chasing a "pie in the sky" with his extremely idealistic and romanticist assumptions.
🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥
1. **Moderation Without Movement**
Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄
*“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”*
#StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral
2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs**
In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫
*“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”*
#DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive
3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform**
He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹
*“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”*
#BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk
4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding**
Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪
*“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”*
#TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures
5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up**
While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️
*“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”*
#CoverUp #ModerationMask
---
In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
I completely disagree. In order to have a completely and properly nuanced perspective on such a specifically human issue, having someone representing compassion, understanding, and peace is necessary to offset other perspectives that are more focused on strategy and politics (removing the humanity). Furthermore, Dajani is the only panelist who is able to remind the discussion of the Palestinians point of view of the Israeli occupation. Notice none of the pro-Israel panelists denied that Israel is in fact occupying territory where Palestinians live. The Israeli panelists only talk about how they've tried to, essentially "not occupy" territories in the past, but that argument is moot for children who are growing up only ever experiencing occupation now. Which, is counterproductive to creating a culture that is not able to justify hatred for Israel/Jews. This is all Dajani is reinforcing. So while his arguments might sound too emotional or idealistic, they are a completely necessary perspective to bring to the discussion that is honestly dominated by an Israeli perspective in the video. Take heed not to be easily swayed by people who project confidence and assuredness. Chances are, they've made a career out of it, regardless of what issues they present. Dajani is a necessary contrast to the more media trained politicians that come with their talking points.
@@adrianpale2342 🔥 **Mohammed Dajani Daoudi: The Status Quo Advocate in Disguise** 🔥
1. **Moderation Without Movement**
Dajani Daoudi claims to champion progress, but his Wasatia movement often just maintains the existing divisions. 🏛️🔄
*“Our goal is moderation, but it sometimes just keeps things as they are.”*
#StatusQuoModerator #StuckInNeutral
2. **Peace Talks, No Breakthroughs**
In debates, Dajani Daoudi often talks about dialogue, but his efforts rarely shake up the real power dynamics. 🗣️🚫
*“We engage in dialogue, but real change remains elusive.”*
#DialogueWithoutAction #ChangeElusive
3. **Education: More Talk, Less Reform**
He promotes peace education but fails to challenge deep-seated issues, keeping education a band-aid rather than a cure. 📚🩹
*“Educational reforms are nice, but they often don’t address root causes.”*
#BandAidNotCure #EducationalTalk
4. **Token Efforts in Peacebuilding**
Dajani Daoudi’s efforts seem more like gestures than genuine steps towards resolution, as he often maintains the status quo. 🤝🚪
*“Efforts are seen as symbolic rather than substantive.”*
#TokenEfforts #SymbolicGestures
5. **Moderation as a Cover-Up**
While he talks about bridging divides, his moderation often serves to cover up real issues rather than confront them. 🎭🕊️
*“Moderation can sometimes mask the lack of real progress.”*
#CoverUp #ModerationMask
---
In essence, Mohammed Dajani Daoudi’s so-called progress often ends up preserving the status quo rather than advancing real solutions. 🚫📝 #StatusQuoAdvocate #PeaceFacade
Exactly sir. Can we call this a debate 🤔@@adrianpale2342
This is not much of a debate
It’s skewed towards Israel
What a joke !
13:40 why? Because it was unjust colonialist mandate, with no rights for those on the land.
The world has moved on. There will be acceptance.
No.
that guy on the left is nuts, give them a state? they already had one in 2005
They had control over their coastline? Interesting definition of “state”.
@@chrisbarrick a state being embargoed does not make it not a state. and there are plenty of former colonies that had worse starts that did far better. so stop using imperfection as an excuse.
@@007kingifrit Ok. Could you name some of them?
@@chrisbarrick india, jamaica, china, take your pick in south america,
NOBODY turned out as badly as gaza, because they refuse to state craft, they choose revenge instead.
@@chrisbarrick North and South Korea. Both are states, former Japanese colonies and were hostile towards each other from the beginning of their existence, yet North Korea has a border with Russia and China they can conduct trade through, like how the Gazans have a border with Egypt that they could trade through.
great debate
It has to start with education.
The international community was blind towards schoolbooks.
Than maybe it will need another 3 generations.
flawed debate from the beginning given one of the hosts is on a side. How is that neutral?
24:30 Israel even collects Palestinians taxes!! At the moment they are refusing to give PA their funds!!
37:20 best point against two state solution.
I love Fleur!
Great opening for " No" a quote attributed to Einstein , that Einstein never actually said.
Geesh. Why are there no Palestinians speaking here. Such BS. THE Occupier is writing the history of
So those who are against two states, what is their solution
One democratic country- free from extremist from the both side
I wonder whether as part of the "innovative solutions" Ms Hassan-Nahoum would consider the Jews moving back to Europe? She immigrated from Gibraltar herself only 23 years ago and sees no problem with her claim to be Israeli. No Holocaust or oppression brought her family to Israel, a narrow strip under so much contention. Why scratch her head for solutions? - her real home is right there in Europe. She should look in the mirror and see the problem.
Alternatively the Palestinians could be sent back to their original family lands: Syria, Egypt, Saudi, Jordan & Bosnia. Let the indigenous return. I am not seriously proposing this.
Great job both sides
Dennis Ross still talking nonsense after all these years. He has learned nothing from his grand failures.
What even was the debate? It was mostly just a circle jerk of people against Palestine
The Two State Solution was never THE solution~
No, it is no longer viable.
palestinian rep said Pal minister said education system is the national education system so this is all dead until they change.
No more!
1964 and Egyptian, KGB, muslim brotherhood invented a new brand of people