The sandwich wrap, as you called it, works fine for all of the strings. That's been the shop standard at every shop I've worked or apprenticed at, and what was taught to us at luthiery school. But even without the sandwich, just wrapping from bottom up works just fine. Everyone has their own way of judging how much slack to give, but I'm a big fan of pulling it taut and then grabbing at the nut and pulling back to the second fret. Third fret for a bass guitar. That's always the perfect amount of slack.
I have tried all of these techniques over the years. For years I used the over-then-under pattern. It made sense to me and I never had a problem. Recently, I've switched back to just a straight wrap with no tricks at all, and I've found that it works just fine. I give it about "one tuner distance" excess length and I get a neat two wraps and it works perfectly. I bend strings a lot and never experience slippage or breakage. In particular, I really don't like the "V" lock technique, mostly because it's really difficult to take the string back off. Any perceived advantage it provides is way overshadowed by the frustration of removing it next time. In my opinion, simple is fine, the complications aren't worth it.
The one tuner distance trick (I guess it's not really a trick, but whatever) is the probably the single most helpful thing I've ever learned about installing guitar strings. Following that alone would do a world of good for most players-I can't tell you how many guitars I've encountered with far too many or too few wraps around the peg.
@@Stringjoy Who knows how many wraps over or under is the “correct” number?.There really is no right or wrong way , whatever works for you. I can’t believe we are going to geek out on how to wrap guitar strings. This whole video was pretty annoying imo,
@@ShawnCothran Just my opinion. I use Stringjoy on all my guitars , I just think the guitar community likes to over complicate everything to do with the instrument. So glad you could take me down a (string) peg or two with your comment.
Great video! I've been using a similar technique to lock strings with good results, but this video simplifies what I've been doing. I will try these techniques out very soon.
Good info. I have been using the "V-lock" technique on all the strings for decades and have never had a string slip. Done right, it softens the hard turn. One other point that doesn't show when you used dummy string sections...when the other end is already anchored first, it is important how much you pull thru the post so you don't have too much or too little wound on the post.
I have been using all these techniques FOREVER! I had seen the bass string sandwich lock over a decade ago with a coworker of mine at a music shop. From then, I started experimenting with other locks because I, as a metal head and heavy bender/picker, tend to kick all my strings out of tune. These are great techniques and I am glad that they are all in one nice video. NOW DO ONE FOR BASS!
Pulling on the strings after they are installed is the most important thing for removing the slack at both ends (i solder the ball ends on the trebles) so it will not slip. But I"m going to try that V Lock on the trebles next time. Thanks.
I’ve never seen that technique with the vintage style keys before. I’m looking forward to trying that. I learned the v-lock technique years ago. I’ve subsequently had debates with techs & salepeople over the validity of the technique. They almost always are coming from the POV of being in a hurry and struggling to get the wrap off of the post. My retort is always “It’s what Dan Erlewine does!”
Can you do a Video on cleaning the grime from the fret board nut and saddles before installing a new set of strings. What products are safe to use and treat them?
Clean with naphtha (zippo lighter fluid) to remove grime, follow up with lemon oil, and wipe off access. Aren't you happy with Stringjoy's response? Lol Overpriced strings are their specialty.
Hi from, Mike. OK. But you should tell us how long we need to cut each string past the post that we are using in-order to not get to much string around the post -
Now try this on modern tuners: before you cut, grab the string 1/2” PAST the tuner with needle-nose pliers and pull. You’ll feel the string seat itself against the post really tight. Especially on wound strings, this quickly takes up tons of slack that you’d need to let subsequent tunings take up, cuz wound strings resist sitting tight at first, no matter how hard you try to hold them close to the post and no matter how clever your 3 o’clock/6 o’clock string-lock strategy is.
Okay this is totally not the point of this video, but what is that string winder?? It's gorgeous and he's going really quick with it without any sort of jamming or gumming up, I think I need it!
With the "loop lock" method shown, can you then use just 1 wrap per post? No need for multiple turns/wraps if the string is "locked", correct? In my experience, the advantage of locking tuners is the speed of changing strings (pull through, lock, tune) and no need for any wraps around the post. I still believe that Fender's original/vintage safety post design is the best ever - no fuss no muss.
I've never "locked" plain strings on vintage style kluson tuners, yet never had a string slip on me. Even with regular tuners where the string goes through on the side and some people "lock" the string, all you need are 2-3 wraps and it won't slip - makes it much easier to get the strings off later! I see the same "overkill" mistake (imho) when soldering, instead of just using solder to attach wires to board, the tech will stick the wire through and kink it around the loop to "lock" it, making de-soldering later much more difficult. Overkill isn't needed, just makes removal later more difficult.
@@Stringjoy thank you - Another question for you: What would you suggest for flatwounds when using locking tuners? (Also down tuned) Just pull, lock, and cut(?), or slight wrap/lock?
And I give Fender this finger, yes this one….. BECAUSE the didn’t use that old style “hollow post” as a standard on all guitars throughout the history of FENDER…..! I absolutely hate to “through post hole” tuners. I’ve been playing Fenders since 1975… Ed King was my reason/inspiration for switching from Gibsons….
I want to fight this video. Folks, you absolutely DO NOT need to do all this crazy over under bullshit! For fender pegs, the first string shown in the video is the only method you need. For non-slotted, just thread through the post and lock the string with a bend against the post from each side of the post, making 90º kinks at the post, and ONLY wind UNDER. NEVER over, never any dipsy-doodle back through the post 3'clock craziness. For one thing, it makes changing strings on a gig a nightmare. With Fender posts and a simple wrap, just detuning pops the wrap off the post, no reason for self-inflected puncture wounds from some crazy wrap around the post that broke off.
Whatever works great for you is A-ok, if you have no trouble with your way, stick with it. Nothing wrong with sharing different techniques for folks interested in trying them out, though.
Can I have a G string please? I really needed this on my SG for the dreaded G string- thanks it worked! In 50 years I’ve only ever broken an E string at a gig-
Yeah some folks get lucky or maybe their playing style lends to a solid lock, but I’ve had strats slip (a little, sometimes a lot) when the lighter strings are not locked in some way.
@@ShawnCothran Jim Campilongo does every trick in the book string bending-wise, major third bends, behind the nut bends, using the tuner for bends, and you won't find any over-the-bridge-and-through-the-woods silliness on his guitar. If it's done carefully and correctly, and you're getting slippage there's something going on mechanically with the guitar that needs to be addressed, most likely the tuner itself. ua-cam.com/video/41VZlp46RXU/v-deo.html
Is there any reason not to cut the end of the string near to the post? I don’t like having those string ends sticking out to stick my fingers when I’m tuning or get caught on other things.
You guys did a great job but did you didn't tell where to cut the string to start? I notice some of the strings have extra sticking out (the 6 in line non-vintage). Where would you cut it to have that inch or so sticking out?
@@jimmyjames8164, thanks for your reply! Dave Doll’s methods are quite specific-I’m expecting I’ll need the video’s guidance the first few times-but I certainly can appreciate his results. Thanks again!
I agree and the problem is that the angle is wrong. Top down is fine but it doesn't show the wraps around the peg. We also need the side view. It seems of obvious but it's not there.
@@paolophonics We usually travel with a 15-person, 4-camera crew to shoot these free UA-cam videos, but 14 of them were sick that day so we just went with the one angle that showed it best. We are working on a 3D version that will be playing in IMAX theatres this summer though.
@@Stringjoy Wow, I didn't realize what a large-scale operation you had. That is impressive. Are there any openings as a string winder apprentice. I have some rudimentary skills I would like to develop and it would be great to be with an organization with some upward mobility opportunities. I'll stay tuned for a response.
Or! Or... stay with me now... You can use locking tuners and NOT worry about your strings ever again. It's easier, quicker, and more reliable. Don't get me wrong, you need to know this info you present here for those times you're stuck with someone else's gear and they don't have locking tuners, being the poor misguided creatures they are. So great video! But I'll still keep locking tuners on all my guitars.
I have one too, but haven't had to restring it yet. A friend told me of one trick to get past the problem of the string falling out of the tailpiece. Once you put the end into the tailpiece, pull it taut to the nut and use a capo to keep the string attached to the tailpiece while you deal with attaching at the tuning post.
LOL! Holding the chromed "R" in place is fun indeed. I've used 3M painters tape (blue) to hold the strings in place. Lots of guys also use a capo. You can also replace the "R" with the rectangular chrome tail with holes they use on the 1993Plus or 660/12 or 660/6. EZ PZ. (But then you always have to contend with the tuning pegs!
When your “expert” demonstrated how to string the wound strings on the Ibanez he made a big fat mistake. It looked okay because it wasn’t a real, full length string running through the bridge. He just showed the whole world how not to do it. He wound the string around the post from the speaking length, which will always distort the windings. It’s a perfect recipe for poor intonation and dead sounding wound strings. I just couldn’t stand it, and I shut the video off at 5:17. Don’t do it like this clown. There are about five proper ways to string your guitar in Dan Erlewine’s outstanding book, How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great. The money you save on wound strings will pay for the book in no time flat.
Oy vey Just get locking tuners! We spend 1000’s on all manner of amps,pedals, stands, bejeweled straps boutique cables and whatnot, but there are 1000 videos on a 1000 different ways to knot and wind strings to save us from dropping 130ish on quality locking tuners. Small $ to eliminate a variable and make changing strings dead easy and repeatable and have rock solid stability at the tuner. One less thing to worry and fuss over.
I, for one, am very upset that you showed us this alternative to the way I have been doing it. How dare you. 🥴😝
Me too, what were you thinking being different than someone else you don’t even know. Unforgivable.
@@ShawnCothran YOU CAN SAY THAT AGAIN!
The sandwich wrap, as you called it, works fine for all of the strings. That's been the shop standard at every shop I've worked or apprenticed at, and what was taught to us at luthiery school. But even without the sandwich, just wrapping from bottom up works just fine.
Everyone has their own way of judging how much slack to give, but I'm a big fan of pulling it taut and then grabbing at the nut and pulling back to the second fret. Third fret for a bass guitar. That's always the perfect amount of slack.
I have tried all of these techniques over the years. For years I used the over-then-under pattern. It made sense to me and I never had a problem. Recently, I've switched back to just a straight wrap with no tricks at all, and I've found that it works just fine. I give it about "one tuner distance" excess length and I get a neat two wraps and it works perfectly. I bend strings a lot and never experience slippage or breakage. In particular, I really don't like the "V" lock technique, mostly because it's really difficult to take the string back off. Any perceived advantage it provides is way overshadowed by the frustration of removing it next time. In my opinion, simple is fine, the complications aren't worth it.
The one tuner distance trick (I guess it's not really a trick, but whatever) is the probably the single most helpful thing I've ever learned about installing guitar strings. Following that alone would do a world of good for most players-I can't tell you how many guitars I've encountered with far too many or too few wraps around the peg.
@@Stringjoy Who knows how many wraps over or under is the “correct” number?.There really is no right or wrong way , whatever works for you. I can’t believe we are going to geek out on how to wrap guitar strings.
This whole video was pretty annoying imo,
@@Jangorexful yeah, can you believe they forced us to watch the whole thing? How annoying
@@ShawnCothran Just my opinion. I use Stringjoy on all my guitars , I just think the guitar community likes to over complicate everything to do with the instrument.
So glad you could take me down a (string) peg or two with your comment.
@@Jangorexful sure thing! happier to join in on the geeking than take you down a string peg. my b.
I really needed to see this. When you don't know something you just don't know but now I know. Thanks 🙂
Great video! I've been using a similar technique to lock strings with good results, but this video simplifies what I've been doing. I will try these techniques out very soon.
Good info. I have been using the "V-lock" technique on all the strings for decades and have never had a string slip. Done right, it softens the hard turn. One other point that doesn't show when you used dummy string sections...when the other end is already anchored first, it is important how much you pull thru the post so you don't have too much or too little wound on the post.
For all the locking tuners, I MUCH prefer those old-fashioned Fender tuners. Insert the string down the shaft. Bend it. Tune it.
It is SO EASY.
The most comprehensive video on the subject, thanks for sharing it!!!
Great video! Please explain how much slack the string should have before using this method
I have been using all these techniques FOREVER! I had seen the bass string sandwich lock over a decade ago with a coworker of mine at a music shop. From then, I started experimenting with other locks because I, as a metal head and heavy bender/picker, tend to kick all my strings out of tune. These are great techniques and I am glad that they are all in one nice video. NOW DO ONE FOR BASS!
Heard! We can do that!
@@Stringjoy WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Thank you! This is the most helpful tutorial!
Pulling on the strings after they are installed is the most important thing for removing the slack at both ends (i solder the ball ends on the trebles) so it will not slip. But I"m going to try that V Lock on the trebles next time. Thanks.
I’ve never seen that technique with the vintage style keys before. I’m looking forward to trying that.
I learned the v-lock technique years ago. I’ve subsequently had debates with techs & salepeople over the validity of the technique. They almost always are coming from the POV of being in a hurry and struggling to get the wrap off of the post. My retort is always “It’s what Dan Erlewine does!”
Can you do a Video on cleaning the grime from the fret board nut and saddles before installing a new set of strings. What products are safe to use and treat them?
Clean with naphtha (zippo lighter fluid) to remove grime, follow up with lemon oil, and wipe off access. Aren't you happy with Stringjoy's response? Lol
Overpriced strings are their specialty.
Hi from, Mike. OK. But you should tell us how long we need to cut each string past the post that we are using in-order to not get to much string around the post -
Now try this on modern tuners: before you cut, grab the string 1/2” PAST the tuner with needle-nose pliers and pull. You’ll feel the string seat itself against the post really tight. Especially on wound strings, this quickly takes up tons of slack that you’d need to let subsequent tunings take up, cuz wound strings resist sitting tight at first, no matter how hard you try to hold them close to the post and no matter how clever your 3 o’clock/6 o’clock string-lock strategy is.
Oh! Very nice, cos I was just thinking about buying locking tuners. I get so frustrated. But this was very helpful. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Can you also show nylon string classical, thanks!
Thank you for this post
Okay this is totally not the point of this video, but what is that string winder?? It's gorgeous and he's going really quick with it without any sort of jamming or gumming up, I think I need it!
Stew Mac has them. Waverly string winder.
With the "loop lock" method shown, can you then use just 1 wrap per post? No need for multiple turns/wraps if the string is "locked", correct? In my experience, the advantage of locking tuners is the speed of changing strings (pull through, lock, tune) and no need for any wraps around the post. I still believe that Fender's original/vintage safety post design is the best ever - no fuss no muss.
Gorgu behind the plant cracked me up!!!!
I've never "locked" plain strings on vintage style kluson tuners, yet never had a string slip on me. Even with regular tuners where the string goes through on the side and some people "lock" the string, all you need are 2-3 wraps and it won't slip - makes it much easier to get the strings off later! I see the same "overkill" mistake (imho) when soldering, instead of just using solder to attach wires to board, the tech will stick the wire through and kink it around the loop to "lock" it, making de-soldering later much more difficult. Overkill isn't needed, just makes removal later more difficult.
Nice - but how much slack before wind? - what IS the optimum amount of wraps? 🤔
Two tuning pegs length on a 6-on-side headstock, 1 tuning peg length on a 3x3 is the best rule of thumb for how much slack before you wind up.
@@Stringjoy thank you -
Another question for you:
What would you suggest for flatwounds when using locking tuners? (Also down tuned)
Just pull, lock, and cut(?), or slight wrap/lock?
Hey I know that guy! Wyatt is one of the best luthiers in MN!
I have this crazy method where I just slide each string through the locking tuner, then tighten the tuner.
This method has been working great for me! 😁
And I give Fender this finger, yes this one…..
BECAUSE the didn’t use that old style “hollow post” as a standard on all guitars throughout the history of FENDER…..!
I absolutely hate to “through post hole” tuners.
I’ve been playing Fenders since 1975… Ed King was my reason/inspiration for switching from Gibsons….
How about a similar guide for slot-head tuners?
What brand winder are you using? I really like that
The angle of the camera really doesn't show well when you are going over or under. Would be nice to see a little angle for depth resolution
I like your string winder:)
I want to fight this video. Folks, you absolutely DO NOT need to do all this crazy over under bullshit! For fender pegs, the first string shown in the video is the only method you need. For non-slotted, just thread through the post and lock the string with a bend against the post from each side of the post, making 90º kinks at the post, and ONLY wind UNDER. NEVER over, never any dipsy-doodle back through the post 3'clock craziness. For one thing, it makes changing strings on a gig a nightmare. With Fender posts and a simple wrap, just detuning pops the wrap off the post, no reason for self-inflected puncture wounds from some crazy wrap around the post that broke off.
Whatever works great for you is A-ok, if you have no trouble with your way, stick with it. Nothing wrong with sharing different techniques for folks interested in trying them out, though.
Can I have a G string please? I really needed this on my SG for the dreaded G string- thanks it worked! In 50 years I’ve only ever broken an E string at a gig-
Yeah some folks get lucky or maybe their playing style lends to a solid lock, but I’ve had strats slip (a little, sometimes a lot) when the lighter strings are not locked in some way.
@@ShawnCothran Jim Campilongo does every trick in the book string bending-wise, major third bends, behind the nut bends, using the tuner for bends, and you won't find any over-the-bridge-and-through-the-woods silliness on his guitar. If it's done carefully and correctly, and you're getting slippage there's something going on mechanically with the guitar that needs to be addressed, most likely the tuner itself. ua-cam.com/video/41VZlp46RXU/v-deo.html
Is there any reason not to cut the end of the string near to the post? I don’t like having those string ends sticking out to stick my fingers when I’m tuning or get caught on other things.
You guys did a great job but did you didn't tell where to cut the string to start? I notice some of the strings have extra sticking out (the 6 in line non-vintage). Where would you cut it to have that inch or so sticking out?
A good rule of thumb is two peg lengths on a 6 in line or one peg length on a 3x3
@@Stringjoy thank you
My Uncle Larry told me never to lock my strings
Tom B(AKA UNLE LARRY)😂
Why did he say never to lock them?
What do you recommend for larger gauges, like 70, 74, 80, etc?
The same method applies, the taper should land before the tuning peg so you should have a thinner string to work with at the tuning peg.
Any tips for nylon strings/classical guitars?
@@jimmyjames8164, thanks for your reply! Dave Doll’s methods are quite specific-I’m expecting I’ll need the video’s guidance the first few times-but I certainly can appreciate his results. Thanks again!
@@jimmyjames8164, glad it’s not just me!
Solder the bridge ends like the guy above does 🤣
Well there goes 10 minutes of my life I will never get back.
I have a Dobro with the posts going thru the slotted headstock, do you have a guide for this style?
That's a good idea for a future video! That said, the concepts are still much the same, the tuning peg is just oriented sideways versus standing up.
Should have added a minimum of 3 full wraps around the post for each string if you want more playing and less tuning !
Do you have a version for people bigger than an ant to see?
Cast it onto a widescreen TV and get real close
I agree and the problem is that the angle is wrong. Top down is fine but it doesn't show the wraps around the peg. We also need the side view. It seems of obvious but it's not there.
@@Stringjoy I think a thicker gauge plain string would have been better to see, maybe like a 17-20 gauge
@@paolophonics We usually travel with a 15-person, 4-camera crew to shoot these free UA-cam videos, but 14 of them were sick that day so we just went with the one angle that showed it best. We are working on a 3D version that will be playing in IMAX theatres this summer though.
@@Stringjoy Wow, I didn't realize what a large-scale operation you had. That is impressive. Are there any openings as a string winder apprentice. I have some rudimentary skills I would like to develop and it would be great to be with an organization with some upward mobility opportunities. I'll stay tuned for a response.
Or! Or... stay with me now... You can use locking tuners and NOT worry about your strings ever again. It's easier, quicker, and more reliable. Don't get me wrong, you need to know this info you present here for those times you're stuck with someone else's gear and they don't have locking tuners, being the poor misguided creatures they are. So great video! But I'll still keep locking tuners on all my guitars.
No slots
Just make sure you stretch your strings properly. Do that and your tuning will be solid.
Been there done that…TOTALLY UNNECESSARY WASTE OF TIME
Hi, Guys. Would love too see a gouge on restringing a Ric 12-string. OMG, I'd rather clean toilets than restring my 360-12...!
I have one too, but haven't had to restring it yet. A friend told me of one trick to get past the problem of the string falling out of the tailpiece. Once you put the end into the tailpiece, pull it taut to the nut and use a capo to keep the string attached to the tailpiece while you deal with attaching at the tuning post.
LOL! Holding the chromed "R" in place is fun indeed. I've used 3M painters tape (blue) to hold the strings in place. Lots of guys also use a capo. You can also replace the "R" with the rectangular chrome tail with holes they use on the 1993Plus or 660/12 or 660/6. EZ PZ. (But then you always have to contend with the tuning pegs!
Do you lock your strings? If not, will you try it?
I don’t lock because if you need to change a string in a hurry, it over complicates an already stressful situation
Absolutely not, and it enrages me to even see it advocated.
I have a couple of times, but stopped as I was getting better tuning stability without it
That took three times longer than necessary.
When your “expert” demonstrated how to string the wound strings on the Ibanez he made a big fat mistake. It looked okay because it wasn’t a real, full length string running through the bridge. He just showed the whole world how not to do it. He wound the string around the post from the speaking length, which will always distort the windings. It’s a perfect recipe for poor intonation and dead sounding wound strings. I just couldn’t stand it, and I shut the video off at 5:17.
Don’t do it like this clown. There are about five proper ways to string your guitar in Dan Erlewine’s outstanding book, How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great. The money you save on wound strings will pay for the book in no time flat.
Oy vey
Just get locking tuners!
We spend 1000’s on all manner of amps,pedals, stands, bejeweled straps boutique cables and whatnot, but there are 1000 videos on a 1000 different ways to knot and wind strings to save us from dropping 130ish on quality locking tuners.
Small $ to eliminate a variable and make changing strings dead easy and repeatable and have rock solid stability at the tuner. One less thing to worry and fuss over.
Lol, too complicated. Z-Locking is easy and secure.
Headphones ⚠️ Warning