Haha... good since of humor buddy... way to keep it lively... Thanks for the video..it helps and shared something lots of folks needed to know.. If not for practically and measure than fir culture and history.. you did grand!
No-one is right or wrong. It's just your method (which always works, I have to say) so that's that. I use a different method that also works but that's just my preference. Interestingly, you didn't say this was the only way to install strings, just how to tie a luthier's knot. Thanks for taking the time to produce your excellent videos.
That is the correct way to as a professional guitar technician at ESP Guitars in Hollywood Ca, this is how we are trained to do it. I’ve done guitars for many A list guitarists like Metallica, Slayer, George Lynch, etc and that is the way it’s done.
Been playing since 1974. This is the method I learned back then, and used for decades. I found a much easier way to secure the strings about 15 years ago. The first wrap of the string goes on top. Never had a slip, and removing the strings from the post is WAY easier than the knot.
Someone showed me this years ago, and I forgot all about it! I have a guitar right here I'll be stringing soon. This wee discussion will be very useful!
Yep. I work as a tech and builder. Having restrung hundreds of guitars, one wrap over and the rest under is perfectly stable, no weird knots to tie, and you don’t have to mangle the string and poke your finger to get it off. I can’t tell you how many guitars are strung up in such ridiculous ways I spend half the setup time just untangling and snipping strings from the tuners.
indeed, but I used to get blasted by others for using this what was called the Gibson wrap in the 70's because every Gibson came with a piece of paper showing this method, but as you stated and I always say, just one wrap above the string and the rest under grips the string without slippage and is far easier to remove, I've met many famous guitarists and none of them use this...they all do it the way you described...I really can't believe I'm seeing this pushed after so many decades.
Yes when I'm playing live if a string breaks, which it seldom does, I want it to fall off quickly so I don't wrestle with a knot. When I change strings on my acoustic I take the string end to the post I want, add the distance to the next post and that's good for over 2 full rotations on the capstan, there I put a 90 degree bend in the string. Slot in the post hole wrap over the top first winding then others go under. On my Telecasters I add the distance between 2 tuning pegs. Of course on the old Tele you had to put a 90 degree bend in the string and snip off the waste to insert in the hole before wrapping the string on the tuning peg. I try to avoid knots. :)
Also known as the "self locking" method If you buy a set of SIT brand strings, you'll find their Stay In Tune guarantee only applies if you use this method (as per their instructions) Good to see Gibson using it too
I bought a Martin D35 in 1987 and there was instructions included to string this way. I don't recall it being called a "luthier's knot" but I've been using the method ever since. I don't know that I have ever run into anyone else who uses it. It does work well for me, never have had an issue with slippage. Thanks for sharing.
I thought everyone knew this trick. I don't do it so much for the wound strings anymore, they hold tuning fine anyway. The unwound strings I still do this, they don't have the windings to grip the post. I just wind the wound strings on top of themselves, then down the post. On electric I use locking tuners that automatically cut off the end of the string. I love them. No bit of string to poke a finger on. I don't have to remember to bring wire cutters with me, in case i break a string. Or try to find them at home when I used them for something else, and forgot where I put them.
I've just been straight up winding my strings up exactly like you just said that you're not supposed to do and I've been doing it for 30 years with pretty much zero problems. I do a lot of bends and stretches on the strings almost constantly so that pretty much pulls all the slack out of whatever is in the headstock.
@@hudson3535 yeah once you start bending the strings and doing a lot of lead they usually straighten out with a couple hours of playing. And if you have a double lock tremolo with a lock nut at the top of the neck it doesn't matter how you string it up because once it's locked into place it ain't going nowhere
I have changed at least a thousand sets of guitar strings, I did try this method one time but when I went to change the strings the next time, it was a real pain to remove them. I have found all you need to do is wrap the strings around the peg a couple times, stuff it thru the hole, bend it over, tighten it up, cut off the excess, done.
If you take a rope, wrap it around a post once, it slips. Twice it still slips but not as much. 3 times it won't slip. Same goes for strings. 3 wraps underneath the hole, done. The only time i've had a string slip is when i tried one of these unecessary so called luthier knots.
I've been playing ( and changing strings ) for 60 years. There are at least five ways to do it. This old Luthier's knot is the best. Nice camera angles and explanation too. Good job.
I've been using this method for years and never knew it had a name. I honestly don't even remember where I learned it, but it's a great trick and this was an excellent presentation of it.
I've been using this technique for a year or so & it works great! I never knew it was called a Luthier's Knot. I'm looking forward to dropping that term in casual conversation! 😄
I was gifted a banjo and I watched about 5 videos that did not help so gave up for 2 weeks and finally found this 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 Exactly what I needed thank you!
I've used this method for about 15 years and found it to be precise, but I try and keep the windings to a minimum (between one and two winds), and I don't bother going above the string at all so I can just flip the end back over while there is still tension when replacing, and it doesn't stretch as much over time. People find their own ways but I would say if I was charging to restring guitars, I would want to make certain the user will have zero issues every time and this method makes certain of that. A very informative video, I'm sure a lot of people are finding it helpful.
I agree. He puts too much slack before coming back around. You don't have to put any slack into it. Just go back around and under with no slack. His peg now has too many wraps on it which can stretch and loosen. If you go without slack, there is no extra to stretch and loosen. The lock is already there even if you don't wrap extra times as he does. The extra wraps are doing nothing good.
How about using physics and the design of the tuner post to insure that you don't need a knot. If you notice, most new tuning posts are concave and flare out above and below the string hole. After you put the string through the hole put the first wind over the top of the string coming through the hole, then all successive winds below the string end coming through the hole. The concave part of the tuning post then cinches the string tight from the top and bottom compressing the winds against the string end and making it almost impossible to slip. Cut off the leftover string. This makes it a lot easier to change strings in the future.
Absolutely correct! That's the way I've been doing my strings since the age of 13 in 1979. And I'm a "get this fucker in tune and keep it that way!" kind of detail man. I watched this video to see what sort of backwoods method was being taught. And while it might work out fine, there is no better way than what you've described here. Hopefully, most newbies will question and scroll down to read your comments! Marc ⚡
You mean “The rabbit goes around the tree, then under the sideways tree, then back up around the second tree, then the rabbit runs off. Then the first tree starts spinning around and the second tree gets like stuck under itself and gets pulled into the first tree. Or something.” wasn’t a clear and concise explanation?
Was having crazy trouble locking my baritone, this is the only video that explains to add extra slack before winding, makes all the difference. Thanks brother
This is by far the best video on how to do this on youtube. No one else zooms in with the good camera angles to show exactly what they're doing like this video does. Great job.
This style of wrap is fine for players that don't gig. If you gig, or tech for other bands, this method absolutely creates issues when removing the strings. In most cases, needle nose pliers and good lighting are needed to remove the broken part of the string that is still wound on the tuner. This can really make it difficult to quickly change out a strings. I prefer the method of wrapping the first winding above tuner hole and the rest below. This will create enough tension to keep the strings in place without wasting time trying to remove the leftover broken string.
Right, well I gigged for decades and used the mandolin method (AKA luthier's knot). I'm afraid I simply don't agree with your objections. First, if you change your strings as often as I think you should, you will RARELY break one. Second, there's a mindlessly simple way to remove strings. Cut them and push them back through the tuner. It takes seconds. This method works fine for gigging players, as do several other methods. Use the one you like. Again, this one works and works well if you do it correctly.
I do the "one over, and the rest under" method too. Three full wraps on the wound strings, and five or six on the unwound. Unless you're playing on cat-gut strings, they ain't slipping at all! None! Once they're stretched-in, if anyone has tuning issues it's probably because they didn't put graphite in the NUT slots, or they don't know that you have to always tune UP. If you need to go down, you have to go farther down, and then come back up. I tie knots when I rock climb, not when I Rock the Casbah.
Well done! The camera angle was perfect, and you gave a good explanation…and it's a short video! I'm going to save this so I can show it to my students.
Thank you sir! I had begun to think I was the only guy alive that strung guitars this way. My teacher showed me how to do this when I was 12. I still do it at 65. He said “ this is how they do it at the factory” I guess that is now “the good ole days” Keep up the good work sir! Peace!!
Great video. Been doing it with one wind at the top and rest underneath for years. Tried this today and love it. Also like the inch and a half measurement. Will do this from now on. Cheers!
Martin. I suspect they do itt save time, then the customers have to try to undo the mess. Both of my Martins came knotted, and cursed them trying get the strings off the post.
When I started doing tech work I used this knot religiously. I started finding though that customers who don’t do their own setups but will do their own string changes had a hard time undoing the knot or or would scratch their headstock taking it out because of the hook in the string it creates. I stopped doing it to make it easier for them but it was so effective and easy. Any tips for taking it out? Thank you!
I've just started using this knot on my acoustic, and it does stay in tune better than my previous non-knot tuning method. I like how people have become so angry about the spectrum of knots on this channel.
I am older than dirt and have been playing since the sixties. In all that time, I never knew how to properly start a new string installation. Thank you very much!
Thanks Jake! I was taught to use this knot in the late 60's, holds great! Another thing I was taught to do while the strings were off was to check the tightness of the tuning machine nuts to make sure they weren't walking around, about ten inch pounds is good. If the machine nuts are loose it can damage the head stock by wallowing out the machine head bores and cause the instrument to loose tune.
@@christineblack4654 The nut is on the face of the head around the tuning post where you palace the new string thru the pin. It's very important that you don't over tighten the nut as it will damage the head. Don't tighten more than 10in"pounds ( just a little more than finger tight). Not all tuners are attached this way, some are screwed on to the back side of the head. When in doubt take the guitar to the shop.
I learned how to do this back in 1975 from the mandolin instruction book titled “Bluegrass Mandolin”, written by Jack Tottle. I’ve been using this technique ever since. I had no idea there was a term for it. Thanks Jake!
I'm lazy, most of my guitars I put either locking tuners or kluson split post tuners on them. I do still have to do this with my old 1971 Ovation Balladeer, though. I won't replace those tuners, they're too nice and I want to keep the guitar with it's original parts.
I've been a full-time repair-tech for over 40 years ('Guitar Tech' - in the SF Bay Area), and in my opinion, this video is almost - but not completely - wrong. As has been said below, this 'knot' is completely unnecessary On The Wound Strings. However, on electric guitars using very light-gauge strings (9-42 or 8-38 sets), it can be very useful to perform this process on the 1st (high E) and 2nd (B) strings, because these strings (especially an .008"-gauge 1st string!) can be flexible enough to 'creep' through the tuner-hole, even when sharply-bent correctly, during installation. A 3rd string is too stiff to 'creep' (and the wound strings have plenty of friction against their adjacent windings), so this is not necessary for those strings. Stephen White
Good point! I've always just put one wind over the tag, and the rest under, and never have I had a string slip...but I don't use 9s. I use 13s on acoustic and 16s on Resonators, more cables than strings.
I wrap all the winds progressively down over the “tail” and the last wind under it, on the G, B, and high E. On the E, A, and D, I wrap one wind over the tail and the rest under. Works great on guitars with tremolos. It’s a modification of something I was taught when I worked for a guitar building shop.
.. ... And that can kinda work sometimes..." - Works 100% of the time for me, for the last 12 years. This can also make a lot of people play old rusty strings rather than lose nerves trying to unknot and restring. Fresh strings are important, it doesn't only apply in studio enviroment.
A clear how-to demonstration and explanation. I don't restring my guitars nearly often enough, by the next time I've forgotten how this is done. I refer to videos like this every time. Good video, thanks! 👍👍👍😏😏😏
Thank you very much. New bassist 400 hours and first time I have replaced my strings. The shop I went to previously closed down after covid and I live in the country and now the closest city has lost the guitar shop. This was a great help now I am fiddling with the height of the string compared to the previous setup. I think my string gauge is larger so strings getting in my way. I will check out your other vids they may have the answer.
I have been playing guitar since I was 15 [first guitar], I'm now 70 and still playing professionally. I have never used that knot and I've never had a problem. Keep it simple [Kiss].
This is the way all Martin guitars are strung at the factory. It allows you to group the tasks. Use the knot to put all the strings on, then come back and tighten, then stretch each string, then tune to pitch. The stretching part is important because when you tune to pitch, it stays in pitch.
I'm from the first wrap over balance wrapped under school which has never failed in about 50 years and a thousand string changes . But I'm gunna try your knot next change , it's always good to learn new things . Thanks
I've always done it like this. Tip for the right amount of slack is to use 1st and 2nd fret. Pull the string tight, grab the string at the 1st fret and pull it back to the 2nd fret and that's your slack. Then do the knot.
That’s smart. I always tried to use the distance of the tuning pegs as my measurement adjustments, but that’s way more consistent and easier than guesstimating on the D and G on 3x3s or the B and E on in-lines. I’m definitely trying this next string change.
Interesting to see how many variations there are for "luthiers knots". I have actually been using this version of luthiers knot for the past couple of decades, since learning it from a guitar maintenance book, and it has pretty much eliminated all potential tuning issues. Possibly more time consuming than other "string wrapping" methods, but in my experience, it is well worth the extra time for the tuning stability. Excellent demonstration Ben!
I have been using the Luthier's Knot for decades and find it quite easy. One thing I was taught is to go just once around the peg. Phil Tafoya, who taught me, was very specific about this.
I remember in the old days I would first wind the string around the post several times (WITHOUT running it through the post hole), with the windings properly "stacked", and THEN complete the process by sticking it through the post hole and bending it in the opposite direction of the cranking movement. Kind of "backing into it", I guess you could say. Probably not the wisest technique, but I didn't know any better, and it did the job! But the method shown here is great!
Good presentation. I used the same knot for a few decades but then dropped it about 15 years ago. I found it unnecessary and not having the knot makes it easier and faster to remove the string from the post when restringing. When I put a new string on, I thread the string through the post pretty much the same as you show, but I then kink the string on both sides of the post: toward the inside of the headstock above the post and toward the outside below the post. I then crank the tuner and wind the string with all the windings going on the post below the string and post hole. The two kinks lock the string and give more than enough friction so that I never have slippage or tuning problems. Works on all the strings even the high E string on acoustic guitars, electric guitars, and mandolins.
Thank you so much Ben for sharing this trick. I once knew a luthier in Seattle named Phil Tafoya who taught me this trick. This was back when we didn't have those little clip on tuners, so tuning was an even bigger deal than now. I was playing 5-7 nights a week in those days an breaking strings fairly regularly. Also, I was (and still am) a big fan of the two-fret bend. Needless to say, the Tafoya knot, as I call it, was a game changer. One more thing. Phil was specific about going just once around the peg if possible. The more you wrap, the more they stretch. I find that once around works great. What's funny is whenever I show this trick to others, they think I'm nuts. They are correct, but it's not because of this knot.
As a guitar builder/player, I used to do this but removing strings after was very aggravating. Decided to use locking tuners and haven’t looked back since!
@@silverfr3ak i ain't that fussy, western music is out of tune with the harmonic series any way and all good music has micro tonal quirks that give it soul, its possible to be too in tune, just like how it's possible to be too in time.. to play with these things sometimes is what makes it human and gives it swag, though, also, yeah, tuning sucks, mine stay in cus i bend up to 5 frets and use compound bends and stuff, i play hard in some styles too and guess got lot of vibratos going on in my hand.. interesting subject, like how van hallen dropped his b string so he could play A major bar shapes and the third would be purer / more in tune against that one note, same on my lap slide guitar, the B string is always flat because it's an open G chord, , if you tweak every note in a chord, you can make it pure, but if you change chord you end up, needing, many, sharper and flatter versions of each note, madness lol, hence we have 12TET.
This was a phenomenal how-to. I started playing guitar about a month ago and the stock high e snapped while a friend and I were doing a "pinch harmonic squeal-off" and like a knuckle-head I snapped the string bringing it up too high. I was having such a difficult time trying to re-string the guitar until I watched your video a few times and I nailed it. Thank you so much! This is something I'll definitely be using for the rest of my life.
I’ve been restringing my own guitars for 40 years. My technique is to make sure I have 2 1/2 to 3 turns. For most 3+3 headstocks this means measuring to the next tuner post and cutting it off there. For inline 6 it’s just past the next or about half way to the 2nd. I start the first wrap above the becket and the rest below, just to keep the coil from bottoming out. Have never had slipping or tuning issues. I’ve been changing strings on pianos and even harpsichords for nearly 40 years. Some harpsichords don’t even have holes drilled in the pins. If piano makers tied their strings on you’d never been able to get them off the pin. You *may* need to do this for nylon, but with steel strings it is completely unnecessary.
@Sinned Gnillubnot Haha! Fantastic. I agree. Tying is unnecessary, especially on wound strings--which he uses for his demo! As long as there's a good kink where the string enters and exits the peg, and a couple of winds around, there'll be no problem.
I agree with tannertuner! I have been playing guitar for 50 years. I have also been a piano tech for about the same amount of time. I just changed my high e string to test luthier knot. Didn’t notice any real difference, and yes, I bend a lot of strings playing straight ahead blues! The key is a good tight becket(piano tech term for the bend at the hole), and 2( for wound) and 3(for plain steel) tight coils. Most guitar players do a sloppy restring, so I suppose the luthier knot will help in that case.
Thanks for the great tip Ben. After 65 years of playing, and stringing instruments, this is the most efficient I've experienced. That being said, it's very difficult or next to impossible to utilize the knot on A and B strings when using a gauge below 12s. For these 2 strings, I wrap the strings 4 times around the post, then pass the strings through the post hole and over the top of the wrap. Holds tight, clean wind and easy to remove old strings when the time comes.
I love the knot, never looked back. However I do the tension tight so there's max one wind. That way theres no string binding against itself on the post which is the main cause of tuning instability. Looks clean too. The trick is experimenting with your individual guitar on where to position the hole for each string. I use the 54432 (o'clock) method on my strat.
Hi Rich, I suppose one reason to have several "windings" going down the post would be to increase the "break angle" of the string (from nut to post) a little bit, to the extent that is important.
Cool video, but there's a much easier way and you'll never get pricked by the sharp end of the string poking out after you've tuned up! Just let the first wind around pass under the hole as you tighten each string (and each successive pass should go under the previous one), and make sure you leave enough slack to make 3-4 passes (except for the thicker strings, where you can get away with 2-3). That puts enough upward pressure on the part of the string that's going through the hole so that it will not come out. Finish tuning the string to whatever note it's designed for (EADGBE), and twist the end of the string back and forth until it snaps off clean. No cutter needed, no sharp end sticking out, and no goofy-looking loops made out of the extra string! Problem solved; no Luthier's knot needed. This works for the mandolin as well, and I am sure it would work for the banjo, although I don't have one and so I've never tried it.
literally came to the comments to mention exactly this. i've been breaking off strings at the post (after three wraps) for about thirty years now, and never once have i had a string slip or come undone. it's faster, safer, and easier.
@@lunacatfish it pretty much just works for bare metal strings or wound strings with a metal core, so it that rules out nylon/gut strings and most flat-wound strings for classical instruments(which often have gut/fiber cores) - i tried it on an electric bass once to no avail, never even bothered to attempt it on my upright
@@lunacatfish I don't have much knowledge on those instruments, so I would consider what @TypewriterJustice said in Reply to you, whatever of it applies to your situation. Sorry!
I learned this method from my guitar teacher some 44 years ago and have since found it unnecessary and makes removing strings troublesome. Just push string thru hole 1 5/8 - 2", depending on the thickness of the string... pull it back. I do 1st wind over the top of the hole and the rest underneath. Strings do not loosen I know this because if the string loosened as much as 3/16" it would pull right through the hole.
I've been doing one over, the rest under for years as well. This "luthier's knot" seems like a great way to scratch the piss out of a headstock and be a total annoyance come removal time. I'll take this video as advice on techniques to avoid 😆
This really works very well. I just opened a guitar I haven't used in years and it was still I tune with this knot. Good you show those who do not know or don't have the experience the best way to string up a guitar
Thanks dude, I used this on my 50 year old Maton guitar today, the tuners aren't concave and the hole is very close to the bottom, works a treat and heck of alot faster to string up, you bloody ripper 👍🇦🇺
I’ve played guitar since I was 16 - (I feel like I’m 200 now 😋), I just changed some strings last weekend and noticed some slipping as I was tuning - this is a MARVELOUS TECHNIQUE for preventing slippage!! Thank you so much for this tip - PROPS! 😎👍💯
I just wrap one wind on top of the tag end, and the rest underneath. It "clamps" the tag end in place, just like this knot, except it's easier. I've never had an issue in 20+ years. I do know a lot of luthiers who swear by this method, so I'm sure there's something to it, but I've never seen a reason to change.
Yep! I usually pull the string tight and throw 2 or 3 or 4 wraps (depending on which string) around the post before I push the through the hole and under the 1st wind. Then give the end a sharp 90 degrees up. Then it only takes a little wind to get up to pitch. Saves a lot of key turning.
I've found this knot works for me for plain strings on a classical guitar (on the wound ones I just use "one over, the rest under" technique). The nylon strings are more slippery and with this knot it's easier to keep them in tune. I don't have an acoustic guitar, but I guess it's similar to an electric, where indeed I've never had a problem with just 2-3 turns, without any knots. As always, YMMV.
My dad (rip) taught me this when I was sixteen because he was sick of changing my strings, his dad taught it him at thirteen, I taught my daughter it when she was eleven. She is twenty one now doing a music degree, I am fifty six. I watched this to confirm/teach 😂 Like deployed 👍
At 5, after 2 lessons, my piano teacher told me mum "He could be a prodigy." My "dad" (I WISH he was RIP instead of yours), cancelled the lessons when hockey season started. My mum's brother gave me his acoustic at age 8. "Dad" put it in the attic. 4 years later he brought it down cuz unc was coming for a visit for a week. When he left he told my mom, 'He's a natural. Really good ear too'. "Dad" cut the strings off. I was 22 before I got a guitar in uni. You're lucky AF dad only got upset about changing your strings mate.
@@ROOKTABULA fair play, that's just, well you know what it is and I feel for you, my old man loved the music and was to all intents and purposes a respected member of the community, he reintergrated physically and mentally disabled people back into the community after a full career teaching them prior to that. He was also lionised by every musician in our small town as the pinnacle to aspire to, he also mapped a way for that integration that was picked up and ran with by not only our council but county ( possibly country wide). When I grew up every woman within his sphere of age acted as if he was a Demi-god and he played and acted to it, when I was eleven one of them 16 years his junior took him away until I was 17 and it was me that found him. Of the 6 children that he had it was only me that remained communicating with him continuously. He was everything to everyone except the people that mattered, I held his hand as he died and told him that I truly loved him, which I did, but he was a shit to all that loved him and if he knew he did not care one jot. All dad's are dick's. 🫂❤️ Edit:- I don't discount myself in this, though I truly wish that I could, for shame 😔, does anyone ever learn🤔
Not all dads are dicks dude how can you say that? My father was a great guy, and I'm trying to be as much of a good father like he was. Sorry you had these experiences but not all fathers are like that!
Great practical tip! I learnt this way nearly 50 years ago when I first started playing and for me is the only way to secure the string to the post. I am convinced the popularity of locking tuners on electrics is partly due to players not knowing how to attach their strings correctly and thinking that their machine heads are at fault. Lol I am starting to sound and think like an old man🤣
Locking tuners to me are mainly an aid to speed up and simplify string changes, since you eliminate the need to do any wraps(the method in this video also works great with minimal wrapping). Thought I'd agree, many people have no clue how to do most of their basic guitar maintenance lol
This is without a doubt the best way to attach strings. I've been doing it this way for over 20 years, I just didn't know it was called the Luthier's knot. What surprises me is that hardly anyone knows about this knot. I've even seen two luthiers simply put the string through the hole and tighten it. So let's share this video.
I have been playing since since the Jurassic and Cretaceous Era. Before I learned the Luthiers knot I was homeless and lived with a pack of wolves. I enjoy the ease with which they can be removed and the removal of slippage which is the sole source of tuning issues.
This knot used to be in a little flyer inside Addario strings back in the last century. It's easier to apply when you start off by turning the tuner post bt 90 degrees. Been doing this since 1981 and never had a string slip, nor be impossible to remove on the fly. It also translates well to the nylon string guitar as well as to nylon strings with wooden tuning pegs (where I actually DO line up the post hole with the string direction)
@donturnock5176 of course you can back that up right?.cause you in your infinite wisdom and Supreme over-arcing judgement can just see through the web and brush aside thousands of guitars and hundreds upon hundreds of satisfied customers to make this on high proclamation. Take a pass Don next time it occurs to you to chime in something you know so very little of.post script: I will never waste my time or anyone else's tying instrument strings into birds nests in a futile attempt to skip the critical steps of properly installing strings.and every time another guitar shows up with that mess I will curse the rubes who believe in f@#$ing the next guy with their inability to reason themselves out of someone else's delusios.
I always wind string around the post sbout 3 to 4 times, below the hole, then pass it through the hole over top of those windings and wind til its in tune....then wind it way over pitch, then back to just under pitch and bring it up til its in tune. Always works fine. If it goes flat in first week or so I take it a few wholesteps over pitch, then tune it properly to stretch the strings
Banjo Ben - I used this technique for years and I abandoned it as a bad job. Too many times, I tore bloody holes in my fingers trying to undo that "kink", particularly on the stiff B string (0.018 medium gauge). Same technique without the reverse bend holds very well and is far safer for the poor schnook (usually me) who has to take those strings off in a few weeks.
I hear you! I've been using the "Martin" knot for almost 40 years. As my eyes got worse, I discovered a solution. I leave 3/8ths inch of the string tag instead of clipping right next to the post. It's much easier to free the bend without donating/sacrificing blood.
Why not unwrap the knot from the other side? If you are using an acoustic loosen the string and remove the peg in the bridge then unwrap it from the long end. With an electric you cut the string and again unwrap it from the other end.
@@CDRaff that doesn't help, especially with the B string. It's folded over like a tight u-turn, and the string is rigid. There's barely enough string to grab, and usually ends up stabbing your finger tip. That's why I cut them off to a 3/8ths length after winding, so I can grab it with needle nose pliers. Even with that, you have to be careful to avoid scraping the tool, or the string end, against the peghead. This knot prevents the string slipping either direction. You can't push it through with the long end until the fold is released.
Guitar tech 40 years-no no no 'knots' can always be pulled tighter. This knot will continue to tighten over time leading to tuning issues. And have fun with a sharp tool such as an awl to get that knot undone on the high E and B strings. I hate when guitars come into my shop with this knot...takes twice as long to remove strings. Not for me...
Preach. One wind over the top and a few below is absolutely fine. And I don’t end up stabbing myself in the fingertip and wrestling with needle nose pliers every time I have to remove old strings.
Great explanation. Slight improvement would be less slack and fewer winds around the tuner post. Less slippage during the first tuning after the string change. I try to get 1 1/2 winds around, 3 or 4 is too many.
@@TheMyguitarisblue You are right that extra wraps do actually allow the string more chances to catch on itself, but that doesn't make it more stable. The problem is that those "catch" points very often slip as you increase string tension when tuning. If you hear occasional popping noises and a sudden pitch drop when tightening a string, that is usually the extra winds slipping through and consequentially the string looses a small amount of tension. Doesn't happen with minimal winds. It's nit-picky for sure but it works better. :)
Yeah, I've only been changing strings for 50+ odd years, and this is the first time I've heard of this knot. I'm gonna get some new strings for my acoustic and try this. Thanks Ben!!
I'm not sure why in this video the guy uses so many winds, but it's really not necessary. The point of that "tie," is to decrease the number of winds so that the wind itself doesn't stretch on the key as you wind up. I generally pull the slack until you got slight tension. Then use the key to crimp the string of the desired length then use this tie. Gives you a good one, one half winds and you just need turn the tuning machine a few times.
I've been using the old bend n' spin method for over 50 years with no problems with any aspect of my playing. This was a far more complex method, and I see no need to change the way I've been doing it for nearly half a century.
Been doing this since my guitar came back from the luthier strung that way. For no technical reason whatsoever, I just think it looks cool. So it's really between myself and my guitar headstock. Good explanation, and very well shot. 👏👏👏
I played for a living for many years and never dealt with using a knot when changing strings; it made things much easier when removing them and changing again, which I did at least once a week. The key is giving the strings a very good stretching after the new ones are put on. (this was on a 73 LP with non-locking machine heads). Again, the real key is in the stretching...my opinion.
The video clearly explained how to do this knot… but… This sort of knot is a pain in the ass to remove, and is not really needed if you know how to fold back properly.
I coil the string several times around the post before threading the eye with the string at the top of the coil. That knot technique makes removing the string difficult. It's better suited for nylon strings than steel IMO.
Just came across this . . . Good old UA-cam! Very simple but highly useful. No more slipping birdsnests for me! Thank you for positing AND for explaining it so well.
I learned this after buying my first "high-end" guitar... It's been a great asset for string life and tuning accuracy, now I service my 10 guitars, mostly acoustics, and use the Luthier's knot where a string goes through a post.
not a fan of this knot, in a lot of cases you end up having to cut the strings off the peg which is more opportunity for error. I'm fond of the 1 over 2 under method is plenty reliable and always easy to remove. Also, instead of guessing how much slack you need pinch the string at the nut and slide it back 1 fret for your 6th string and 1 1/2 fret for 1st threw 5th and you will see even results every time.
Dude what a help this was! All the top videos on changing banjo strings failed to properly explain this or show closeups... Kept kinking my strings! Thanks
I think that one of the problems most of us have, is that we don't get enough chance to practice resstringing. When we change strings we just want to get it done as quickly as possible. I have made some notes, and saved this video so that i can try to do this next time. It looks so proffessional If you work in a guitar shop, then you willl get lots of chance to practice.
Every time I use this technique there is so much slip it’s ridiculous. When I stick to the good ol’ “give one and a half or two around the peg” technique, I get minimal slip and it’s ready for play and stable in minutes.
i've been playing guitar for 60 years, 40 of that semi-pro (~1500 gigs), and none of the bad things mentioned if you don't do this have ever happened to me. in addition, this method is a nightmare if you're playing solo and break a string. if you just run the string through with the post hole at 90° instead of straight, you put a kink that holds the string just fine, but releases easily if you need to change strings. it never slips, that's a bogus belief.
@@millsbobster I have never believed it till it happened to me. The E string keeps getting detuned. When I investigated, it turns out the wrap slips up. So I did this and the problem went away.
Here’s how.. DONT!!! One wrap over the top of the tail, the rest below, and they’ll never slip. All the knot does is make it harder to change the strings for the next guy
That's how I've done it for 20 years and have never had a string slip. I do know a lot of repair guys who use this knot, and Martin Guitar recommends it, so there must be something to it I suppose...but it seems to be a somewhat complicated solution, when easier methods suffice. I guess if it's the way you're comfortable, go for it.
The way I’ve done it for years, never had any problems. The knot looks nice, but you can put a set of strings on and get them to stay in tune, by stretching your strings and tuning. Repeat the process until they stay in tune. No slippage and easy to change.
@@jasonw4053 Martin recommends it because a guy like this got a job there and made it Martin's word. Just because a high-end brand does it one way doesn't make it gospel. Many high-end brands do it different ways. I don't wrap my strings this way and I've never had any problems with slipping or anything, and locking tuners just makes this method completely obsolete. There's really no excuse not to use them now unless you're dead-set on not modifying the guitar for whatever reason, or if it's not using standard guitar tuners, so like a classical. You can get a set of good locking tuners for less than a pickup upgrade and if you source them properly all you need to install them is a wrench and screwdriver. If you source them improperly and get ones that don't fit all you need is a power drill and some confidence, otherwise I'm sure you can find a luthier to do it for a reasonable price.
This is a big source of contention for players. People either seem to love or hate it. No middle ground. I, personally, think that the Luthier’s Knot is more trouble than of benefit (stringing and de-stringing).
Quick test : Take 2 guitars that are very same. String one with the knot, string the other by just winding the strings. Then play both a song on each guitar like you would during a gig. Retune and put them on a stand. Pick them the day after and see which one is out of tune and by how much. Any problems of wood/hardware put aside, strings winded with the knot will be almost dead stable right away and will very slightly move during overnight (and in my experience, they spend the night in a guitar vault, in a semi-truck trailer)
Should be called the anti-luthier’s knot- no luthier I know uses it, and it’s a very effective way to tick your luthier right off if you need to have work done on your guitars. And for anyone who says that Taylor in their camp, D’Addario is in mine. 😁
I hate to break it to y’all, but the luthier’s knot is utterly useless. It doesn’t hold your strings in place and only serves to be a pain in the ass when you go to change the strings. The luthier’s knot is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves that people do.
Never seen a need for this unless it is a straight post. This method was meant to be used on the old straight posts that are shaped to pinch the string in place with pressure. This method tends to cause a longer period before you have tuning stability too because of the excess string on there that needs to stretch out. Great method for straight posts but unnecessary for tuners like on that guitar.
Now I know...at my next Thanksgiving family meal, I will not discuss religion, politics, or the Luthier's Knot.
Haha... good since of humor buddy... way to keep it lively...
Thanks for the video..it helps and shared something lots of folks needed to know..
If not for practically and measure than fir culture and history.. you did grand!
That is the right way to lock the string. Or I learned it from the old guys.
No-one is right or wrong. It's just your method (which always works, I have to say) so that's that. I use a different method that also works but that's just my preference. Interestingly, you didn't say this was the only way to install strings, just how to tie a luthier's knot. Thanks for taking the time to produce your excellent videos.
I found this very helpful
Lol. People act like you dont do this for a living. Thanks!
I’ve just always done the first wrap around above the excess string and the rest of them below it in a coil fashion. That seems to work well for me.
Same concept different approach 👌
Me too
That is the correct way to as a professional guitar technician at ESP Guitars in Hollywood Ca, this is how we are trained to do it.
I’ve done guitars for many A list guitarists like Metallica, Slayer, George Lynch, etc and that is the way it’s done.
Been playing since 1974. This is the method I learned back then, and used for decades. I found a much easier way to secure the strings about 15 years ago. The first wrap of the string goes on top. Never had a slip, and removing the strings from the post is WAY easier than the knot.
Someone showed me this years ago, and I forgot all about it! I have a guitar right here I'll be stringing soon. This wee discussion will be very useful!
Yep. I work as a tech and builder. Having restrung hundreds of guitars, one wrap over and the rest under is perfectly stable, no weird knots to tie, and you don’t have to mangle the string and poke your finger to get it off. I can’t tell you how many guitars are strung up in such ridiculous ways I spend half the setup time just untangling and snipping strings from the tuners.
indeed, but I used to get blasted by others for using this what was called the Gibson wrap in the 70's because every Gibson came with a piece of paper showing this method, but as you stated and I always say, just one wrap above the string and the rest under grips the string without slippage and is far easier to remove, I've met many famous guitarists and none of them use this...they all do it the way you described...I really can't believe I'm seeing this pushed after so many decades.
Yes when I'm playing live if a string breaks, which it seldom does, I want it to fall off quickly so I don't wrestle with a knot. When I change strings on my acoustic I take the string end to the post I want, add the distance to the next post and that's good for over 2 full rotations on the capstan, there I put a 90 degree bend in the string. Slot in the post hole wrap over the top first winding then others go under. On my Telecasters I add the distance between 2 tuning pegs. Of course on the old Tele you had to put a 90 degree bend in the string and snip off the waste to insert in the hole before wrapping the string on the tuning peg. I try to avoid knots. :)
Also known as the "self locking" method
If you buy a set of SIT brand strings, you'll find their Stay In Tune guarantee only applies if you use this method (as per their instructions)
Good to see Gibson using it too
I bought a Martin D35 in 1987 and there was instructions included to string this way. I don't recall it being called a "luthier's knot" but I've been using the method ever since. I don't know that I have ever run into anyone else who uses it. It does work well for me, never have had an issue with slippage. Thanks for sharing.
I thought everyone knew this trick. I don't do it so much for the wound strings anymore, they hold tuning fine anyway. The unwound strings I still do this, they don't have the windings to grip the post. I just wind the wound strings on top of themselves, then down the post.
On electric I use locking tuners that automatically cut off the end of the string. I love them. No bit of string to poke a finger on. I don't have to remember to bring wire cutters with me, in case i break a string. Or try to find them at home when I used them for something else, and forgot where I put them.
I've just been straight up winding my strings up exactly like you just said that you're not supposed to do and I've been doing it for 30 years with pretty much zero problems. I do a lot of bends and stretches on the strings almost constantly so that pretty much pulls all the slack out of whatever is in the headstock.
I agree...my Grover tuners just don't slip once the string itself settles.
@@hudson3535 yeah once you start bending the strings and doing a lot of lead they usually straighten out with a couple hours of playing. And if you have a double lock tremolo with a lock nut at the top of the neck it doesn't matter how you string it up because once it's locked into place it ain't going nowhere
I have changed at least a thousand sets of guitar strings, I did try this method one time but when I went to change the strings the next time, it was a real pain to remove them. I have found all you need to do is wrap the strings around the peg a couple times, stuff it thru the hole, bend it over, tighten it up, cut off the excess, done.
Only an ass needs to make it appear hard to do,.....Pathetic.
Yeah but, You don't get to brag about using a luthier's knot so nady nady. lol
If you take a rope, wrap it around a post once, it slips. Twice it still slips but not as much. 3 times it won't slip. Same goes for strings. 3 wraps underneath the hole, done. The only time i've had a string slip is when i tried one of these unecessary so called luthier knots.
I've been playing ( and changing strings ) for 60 years. There are at least five ways to do it. This old Luthier's knot is the best. Nice camera angles and explanation too. Good job.
No need for knots on steel strings. Please do not. Nylon strings, yes. - Guitar Tech
I've been using this method for years and never knew it had a name. I honestly don't even remember where I learned it, but it's a great trick and this was an excellent presentation of it.
Same. I always see people saying it's overkill, but I don't see any reason no to do it.
Same here, being doing this technique without knowing it had a name. I always thought it was my idea. Gosh darnit.
I learned this very early in my guitar playing 33-35 years ago. I didn’t know this had a name until now other than “the right way.”
I've been using this technique for a year or so & it works great! I never knew it was called a Luthier's Knot. I'm looking forward to dropping that term in casual conversation! 😄
Kudos to the videographer. The angles shown made it very easy to visualize what was going on.
I was gifted a banjo and I watched about 5 videos that did not help so gave up for 2 weeks and finally found this 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 Exactly what I needed thank you!
"Hope it helps."? Heck yeah it helps! I've heard of the Luthiers Knot but never seen it explained and demonstrated so simply before.
Thanks a bunch!
You'll never have to change strings again.....until the next time! That was great!! Thanks for a really well-explained way to do this!
He was 100% right. I didn't have to change my stings until the next time.
I never change my strings until the next time! Who does that?
Yes indeed Brad your comment says just what I thought, so yeah that, and regards from LONDON 😍🇬🇧
You have to change strings?😄
😂😂😂
I've used this method for about 15 years and found it to be precise, but I try and keep the windings to a minimum (between one and two winds), and I don't bother going above the string at all so I can just flip the end back over while there is still tension when replacing, and it doesn't stretch as much over time. People find their own ways but I would say if I was charging to restring guitars, I would want to make certain the user will have zero issues every time and this method makes certain of that.
A very informative video, I'm sure a lot of people are finding it helpful.
I agree. He puts too much slack before coming back around. You
don't have to put any slack into it. Just go back around and under
with no slack. His peg now has too many wraps on it which can
stretch and loosen. If you go without slack, there is no extra to
stretch and loosen. The lock is already there even if you don't wrap
extra times as he does. The extra wraps are doing nothing good.
How about using physics and the design of the tuner post to insure that you don't need a knot. If you notice, most new tuning posts are concave and flare out above and below the string hole. After you put the string through the hole put the first wind over the top of the string coming through the hole, then all successive winds below the string end coming through the hole. The concave part of the tuning post then cinches the string tight from the top and bottom compressing the winds against the string end and making it almost impossible to slip. Cut off the leftover string. This makes it a lot easier to change strings in the future.
Yep.
Thank you...this is the best way. I don't care for the knot when removing them.
You should post a video.
That's the way I learned about 60 years ago, It has done me OK all this time.
Absolutely correct! That's the way I've been doing my strings since the age of 13 in 1979. And I'm a "get this fucker in tune and keep it that way!" kind of detail man.
I watched this video to see what sort of backwoods method was being taught. And while it might work out fine, there is no better way than what you've described here.
Hopefully, most newbies will question and scroll down to read your comments!
Marc
⚡
That did help . It posphones buying locking tuners . Thanks
I’ve seen a few explanations for the luthier’s knot, but this one makes the most sense!
Thank you, Connie! We aim to please!
I agree! Now I'm excited for my strings to go bad so I can change them!
AND it's not a 30 minute introductory video but straight to the point how-it's-done.
You mean “The rabbit goes around the tree, then under the sideways tree, then back up around the second tree, then the rabbit runs off. Then the first tree starts spinning around and the second tree gets like stuck under itself and gets pulled into the first tree. Or something.” wasn’t a clear and concise explanation?
@@dudebro7698 🤣🤣🤣
Was having crazy trouble locking my baritone, this is the only video that explains to add extra slack before winding, makes all the difference. Thanks brother
This is by far the best video on how to do this on youtube. No one else zooms in with the good camera angles to show exactly what they're doing like this video does. Great job.
This style of wrap is fine for players that don't gig. If you gig, or tech for other bands, this method absolutely creates issues when removing the strings. In most cases, needle nose pliers and good lighting are needed to remove the broken part of the string that is still wound on the tuner. This can really make it difficult to quickly change out a strings. I prefer the method of wrapping the first winding above tuner hole and the rest below. This will create enough tension to keep the strings in place without wasting time trying to remove the leftover broken string.
Right, well I gigged for decades and used the mandolin method (AKA luthier's knot). I'm afraid I simply don't agree with your objections. First, if you change your strings as often as I think you should, you will RARELY break one. Second, there's a mindlessly simple way to remove strings. Cut them and push them back through the tuner. It takes seconds. This method works fine for gigging players, as do several other methods. Use the one you like. Again, this one works and works well if you do it correctly.
I do the "one over, and the rest under" method too. Three full wraps on the wound strings, and five or six on the unwound. Unless you're playing on cat-gut strings, they ain't slipping at all! None! Once they're stretched-in, if anyone has tuning issues it's probably because they didn't put graphite in the NUT slots, or they don't know that you have to always tune UP. If you need to go down, you have to go farther down, and then come back up. I tie knots when I rock climb, not when I Rock the Casbah.
@@mxgr194 I absolutely agree. ALSO, if you gig with a guitar strung with this method, less tuning is required!!!!
@@truculenttones Yes, been doing this knot for 20+ years. I teach this to every guitarist who comes to my shop. Definitely the most stable for sure.
Under/over, it doesn't get any simplier. Unwind one turn, pull, and your string is off the post.
Thank you! This is so helpful. At 62 years of age, I can honestly say, "I wish I had seen this 50 years ago!
Well done! The camera angle was perfect, and you gave a good explanation…and it's a short video! I'm going to save this so I can show it to my students.
I have been playing the guitar for 59 years and I have always wanted to be able to do this. Thank you for being so clear!
seriously? 59 years and you didnt even do it once by accident?
This is "my special" method . I "developed" this 35 years ago. :-)
Same here. Been changing guitar strings for 40 years but didn't know about this knot.
Same here at 65 years. I knew there was a method but everyone I asked had different ideas.
@@dyers1210 lol
Thank you sir! I had begun to think I was the only guy alive that strung guitars this way. My teacher showed me how to do this when I was 12. I still do it at 65. He said “ this is how they do it at the factory” I guess that is now “the good ole days” Keep up the good work sir! Peace!!
Great video. Been doing it with one wind at the top and rest underneath for years. Tried this today and love it. Also like the inch and a half measurement. Will do this from now on. Cheers!
which factory?
Martin. I suspect they do itt save time, then the customers have to try to undo the mess. Both of my Martins came knotted, and cursed them trying get the strings off the post.
When I started doing tech work I used this knot religiously. I started finding though that customers who don’t do their own setups but will do their own string changes had a hard time undoing the knot or or would scratch their headstock taking it out because of the hook in the string it creates. I stopped doing it to make it easier for them but it was so effective and easy. Any tips for taking it out?
Thank you!
I've just started using this knot on my acoustic, and it does stay in tune better than my previous non-knot tuning method.
I like how people have become so angry about the spectrum of knots on this channel.
I am older than dirt and have been playing since the sixties. In all that time, I never knew how to properly start a new string installation. Thank you very much!
Thanks Jake! I was taught to use this knot in the late 60's, holds great! Another thing I was taught to do while the strings were off was to check the tightness of the tuning machine nuts to make sure they weren't walking around, about ten inch pounds is good. If the machine nuts are loose it can damage the head stock by wallowing out the machine head bores and cause the instrument to loose tune.
Foot-pound, hand-pound, bro. 😆 this is good info too, thx!
what is the tuning machine nuts. lol
@@christineblack4654 The nut is on the face of the head around the tuning post where you palace the new string thru the pin. It's very important that you don't over tighten the nut as it will damage the head. Don't tighten more than 10in"pounds ( just a little more than finger tight). Not all tuners are attached this way, some are screwed on to the back side of the head. When in doubt take the guitar to the shop.
I learned how to do this back in 1975 from the mandolin instruction book titled “Bluegrass Mandolin”, written by Jack Tottle. I’ve been using this technique ever since. I had no idea there was a term for it. Thanks Jake!
I'm lazy, most of my guitars I put either locking tuners or kluson split post tuners on them. I do still have to do this with my old 1971 Ovation Balladeer, though. I won't replace those tuners, they're too nice and I want to keep the guitar with it's original parts.
I've been a full-time repair-tech for over 40 years ('Guitar Tech' - in the SF Bay Area), and in my opinion, this video is almost - but not completely - wrong. As has been said below, this 'knot' is completely unnecessary On The Wound Strings. However, on electric guitars using very light-gauge strings (9-42 or 8-38 sets), it can be very useful to perform this process on the 1st (high E) and 2nd (B) strings, because these strings (especially an .008"-gauge 1st string!) can be flexible enough to 'creep' through the tuner-hole, even when sharply-bent correctly, during installation. A 3rd string is too stiff to 'creep' (and the wound strings have plenty of friction against their adjacent windings), so this is not necessary for those strings.
Stephen White
Good point! I've always just put one wind over the tag, and the rest under, and never have I had a string slip...but I don't use 9s. I use 13s on acoustic and 16s on Resonators, more cables than strings.
Stephen White brilliantly repaired/set-up/modded many of my guitars and basses in the early 90s… I’ll follow his advice on this topic 👍🏻
I wrap all the winds progressively down over the “tail” and the last wind under it, on the G, B, and high E.
On the E, A, and D, I wrap one wind over the tail and the rest under. Works great on guitars with tremolos.
It’s a modification of something I was taught when I worked for a guitar building shop.
Please post a video thanks for info like this
Was about to suggest if you could post of video, but that's already done... so... please?
Can't really picture that from the description.
.. ... And that can kinda work sometimes..." - Works 100% of the time for me, for the last 12 years.
This can also make a lot of people play old rusty strings rather than lose nerves trying to unknot and restring. Fresh strings are important, it doesn't only apply in studio enviroment.
A clear how-to demonstration and explanation. I don't restring my guitars nearly often enough, by the next time I've forgotten how this is done. I refer to videos like this every time. Good video, thanks! 👍👍👍😏😏😏
Thank you very much. New bassist 400 hours and first time I have replaced my strings. The shop I went to previously closed down after covid and I live in the country and now the closest city has lost the guitar shop. This was a great help now I am fiddling with the height of the string compared to the previous setup. I think my string gauge is larger so strings getting in my way. I will check out your other vids they may have the answer.
I have been playing guitar since I was 15 [first guitar], I'm now 70 and still playing professionally. I have never used that knot and I've never had a problem. Keep it simple [Kiss].
I like how short, simple and clear this was. Thank you!
This is the way all Martin guitars are strung at the factory. It allows you to group the tasks. Use the knot to put all the strings on, then come back and tighten, then stretch each string, then tune to pitch. The stretching part is important because when you tune to pitch, it stays in pitch.
Ben thats the best demo I have ever seen. Just restrung my Les Paul and all strings look tidy and tight Thank You
I'm from the first wrap over balance wrapped under school which has never failed in about 50 years and a thousand string changes . But I'm gunna try your knot next change , it's always good to learn new things . Thanks
I've always done it like this. Tip for the right amount of slack is to use 1st and 2nd fret.
Pull the string tight, grab the string at the 1st fret and pull it back to the 2nd fret and that's your slack. Then do the knot.
That’s smart. I always tried to use the distance of the tuning pegs as my measurement adjustments, but that’s way more consistent and easier than guesstimating on the D and G on 3x3s or the B and E on in-lines. I’m definitely trying this next string change.
1.5 frets thickest 2 strings.. 2 full frets on the rest.
Interesting to see how many variations there are for "luthiers knots". I have actually been using this version of luthiers knot for the past couple of decades, since learning it from a guitar maintenance book, and it has pretty much eliminated all potential tuning issues. Possibly more time consuming than other "string wrapping" methods, but in my experience, it is well worth the extra time for the tuning stability. Excellent demonstration Ben!
Variations? Those would be different knots. There's only one way to do that knot and that's how it was shown.
I have been using the Luthier's Knot for decades and find it quite easy. One thing I was taught is to go just once around the peg. Phil Tafoya, who taught me, was very specific about this.
Metal can strip lol
Only if is lossen too much
I have watched several videos on changing acoustic strings and this one is, by far, the clearest and best-thanks!
I remember in the old days I would first wind the string around the post several times (WITHOUT running it through the post hole), with the windings properly "stacked", and THEN complete the process by sticking it through the post hole and bending it in the opposite direction of the cranking movement. Kind of "backing into it", I guess you could say. Probably not the wisest technique, but I didn't know any better, and it did the job! But the method shown here is great!
Good presentation. I used the same knot for a few decades but then dropped it about 15 years ago. I found it unnecessary and not having the knot makes it easier and faster to remove the string from the post when restringing. When I put a new string on, I thread the string through the post pretty much the same as you show, but I then kink the string on both sides of the post: toward the inside of the headstock above the post and toward the outside below the post. I then crank the tuner and wind the string with all the windings going on the post below the string and post hole. The two kinks lock the string and give more than enough friction so that I never have slippage or tuning problems. Works on all the strings even the high E string on acoustic guitars, electric guitars, and mandolins.
Thank you so much Ben for sharing this trick. I once knew a luthier in Seattle named Phil Tafoya who taught me this trick. This was back when we didn't have those little clip on tuners, so tuning was an even bigger deal than now. I was playing 5-7 nights a week in those days an breaking strings fairly regularly. Also, I was (and still am) a big fan of the two-fret bend. Needless to say, the Tafoya knot, as I call it, was a game changer. One more thing. Phil was specific about going just once around the peg if possible. The more you wrap, the more they stretch. I find that once around works great. What's funny is whenever I show this trick to others, they think I'm nuts. They are correct, but it's not because of this knot.
As a guitar builder/player, I used to do this but removing strings after was very aggravating. Decided to use locking tuners and haven’t looked back since!
locking tuners are life quality of life!
I’ve seen a lot of people complain about removing this knot. I don’t understand why. I have it down to a science.
@@petemoore8923 only just seen it but yeah, that would be easy to me already! lol.
@@silverfr3ak i ain't that fussy, western music is out of tune with the harmonic series any way and all good music has micro tonal quirks that give it soul, its possible to be too in tune, just like how it's possible to be too in time.. to play with these things sometimes is what makes it human and gives it swag, though, also, yeah, tuning sucks, mine stay in cus i bend up to 5 frets and use compound bends and stuff, i play hard in some styles too and guess got lot of vibratos going on in my hand.. interesting subject, like how van hallen dropped his b string so he could play A major bar shapes and the third would be purer / more in tune against that one note, same on my lap slide guitar, the B string is always flat because it's an open G chord, , if you tweak every note in a chord, you can make it pure, but if you change chord you end up, needing, many, sharper and flatter versions of each note, madness lol, hence we have 12TET.
I thought we ALL did that? I use the knot on my acoustics but locking nut is way to go.
This was a phenomenal how-to. I started playing guitar about a month ago and the stock high e snapped while a friend and I were doing a "pinch harmonic squeal-off" and like a knuckle-head I snapped the string bringing it up too high. I was having such a difficult time trying to re-string the guitar until I watched your video a few times and I nailed it. Thank you so much! This is something I'll definitely be using for the rest of my life.
Thanks Ben! I've been CLOSE for 50 years but I'll never differ from this method from here on out, no "tinks" or "creeks" since trying this method
This made my day. Thanks!
I’ve been restringing my own guitars for 40 years. My technique is to make sure I have 2 1/2 to 3 turns. For most 3+3 headstocks this means measuring to the next tuner post and cutting it off there. For inline 6 it’s just past the next or about half way to the 2nd. I start the first wrap above the becket and the rest below, just to keep the coil from bottoming out.
Have never had slipping or tuning issues.
I’ve been changing strings on pianos and even harpsichords for nearly 40 years. Some harpsichords don’t even have holes drilled in the pins. If piano makers tied their strings on you’d never been able to get them off the pin.
You *may* need to do this for nylon, but with steel strings it is completely unnecessary.
but still good.
You don’t bend strings much if that method works. They don’t bend piano strings.
@Sinned Gnillubnot Haha! Fantastic. I agree. Tying is unnecessary, especially on wound strings--which he uses for his demo! As long as there's a good kink where the string enters and exits the peg, and a couple of winds around, there'll be no problem.
I agree with tannertuner! I have been playing guitar for 50 years. I have also been a piano tech for about the same amount of time. I just changed my high e string to test luthier knot. Didn’t notice any real difference, and yes, I bend a lot of strings playing straight ahead blues! The key is a good tight becket(piano tech term for the bend at the hole), and 2( for wound) and 3(for plain steel) tight coils. Most guitar players do a sloppy restring, so I suppose the luthier knot will help in that case.
Thanks for the great tip Ben. After 65 years of playing, and stringing instruments, this is the most efficient I've experienced. That being said, it's very difficult or next to impossible to utilize the knot on A and B strings when using a gauge below 12s. For these 2 strings, I wrap the strings 4 times around the post, then pass the strings through the post hole and over the top of the wrap. Holds tight, clean wind and easy to remove old strings when the time comes.
I love the knot, never looked back. However I do the tension tight so there's max one wind. That way theres no string binding against itself on the post which is the main cause of tuning instability. Looks clean too. The trick is experimenting with your individual guitar on where to position the hole for each string. I use the 54432 (o'clock) method on my strat.
Hi Rich, I suppose one reason to have several "windings" going down the post would be to increase the "break angle" of the string (from nut to post) a little bit, to the extent that is important.
This method of Luthier's knot has definitely helped me. Thanks a lot
Also called “The Martin Knot.” The factory does it this way and in my “Care Booklet” it shows this method. Very useful video and practical knowledge!
Cool video, but there's a much easier way and you'll never get pricked by the sharp end of the string poking out after you've tuned up! Just let the first wind around pass under the hole as you tighten each string (and each successive pass should go under the previous one), and make sure you leave enough slack to make 3-4 passes (except for the thicker strings, where you can get away with 2-3). That puts enough upward pressure on the part of the string that's going through the hole so that it will not come out. Finish tuning the string to whatever note it's designed for (EADGBE), and twist the end of the string back and forth until it snaps off clean. No cutter needed, no sharp end sticking out, and no goofy-looking loops made out of the extra string! Problem solved; no Luthier's knot needed. This works for the mandolin as well, and I am sure it would work for the banjo, although I don't have one and so I've never tried it.
literally came to the comments to mention exactly this. i've been breaking off strings at the post (after three wraps) for about thirty years now, and never once have i had a string slip or come undone. it's faster, safer, and easier.
@@TypewriterJustice Haha exactly!
Hi, your technique seems simple, would it also work for violin and ukulele strings? For bass? Thanks.
@@lunacatfish it pretty much just works for bare metal strings or wound strings with a metal core, so it that rules out nylon/gut strings and most flat-wound strings for classical instruments(which often have gut/fiber cores) - i tried it on an electric bass once to no avail, never even bothered to attempt it on my upright
@@lunacatfish I don't have much knowledge on those instruments, so I would consider what @TypewriterJustice said in Reply to you, whatever of it applies to your situation. Sorry!
I have been playing guitar for 16 years and never heard of this. Thanks for sharing, this looks awesome. 👏👏👏
This is ancient magic wizardry.
I learned this method from my guitar teacher some 44 years ago and have since found it unnecessary and makes removing strings troublesome. Just push string thru hole 1 5/8 - 2", depending on the thickness of the string... pull it back. I do 1st wind over the top of the hole and the rest underneath. Strings do not loosen I know this because if the string loosened as much as 3/16" it would pull right through the hole.
Ditto
I've been doing one over, the rest under for years as well. This "luthier's knot" seems like a great way to scratch the piss out of a headstock and be a total annoyance come removal time. I'll take this video as advice on techniques to avoid 😆
@@stinkychickentitty lol
YEP---your way holds just as well, and doesn't cause problems later.
Same here. It's worked for me since 1977. 😃
This really works very well. I just opened a guitar I haven't used in years and it was still I tune with this knot. Good you show those who do not know or don't have the experience the best way to string up a guitar
Thanks dude, I used this on my 50 year old Maton guitar today, the tuners aren't concave and the hole is very close to the bottom, works a treat and heck of alot faster to string up, you bloody ripper 👍🇦🇺
I’ve played guitar since I was 16 - (I feel like I’m 200 now 😋), I just changed some strings last weekend and noticed some slipping as I was tuning - this is a MARVELOUS TECHNIQUE for preventing slippage!!
Thank you so much for this tip - PROPS! 😎👍💯
I just wrap one wind on top of the tag end, and the rest underneath. It "clamps" the tag end in place, just like this knot, except it's easier. I've never had an issue in 20+ years. I do know a lot of luthiers who swear by this method, so I'm sure there's something to it, but I've never seen a reason to change.
Yep! I usually pull the string tight and throw 2 or 3 or 4 wraps (depending on which string) around the post before I push the through the hole and under the 1st wind. Then give the end a sharp 90 degrees up. Then it only takes a little wind to get up to pitch. Saves a lot of key turning.
@@brin57 I've done that, too. I always give the tag end an upwards, 90 degree tug before I clip it, too. Never once have I had an issue.
I've found this knot works for me for plain strings on a classical guitar (on the wound ones I just use "one over, the rest under" technique). The nylon strings are more slippery and with this knot it's easier to keep them in tune.
I don't have an acoustic guitar, but I guess it's similar to an electric, where indeed I've never had a problem with just 2-3 turns, without any knots. As always, YMMV.
Good Luthiers will never recommend this. Knots belongs on fishing lines not guitars
@@larry6686st Old dogs CAN learn new tricks that work well.
My dad (rip) taught me this when I was sixteen because he was sick of changing my strings, his dad taught it him at thirteen, I taught my daughter it when she was eleven. She is twenty one now doing a music degree, I am fifty six. I watched this to confirm/teach 😂
Like deployed 👍
Wow it runs in the family
Why would this mean you change strings less?
Surely it’s purpose is just to reduce the amount you have to keep tuning it?
At 5, after 2 lessons, my piano teacher told me mum "He could be a prodigy." My "dad" (I WISH he was RIP instead of yours), cancelled the lessons when hockey season started. My mum's brother gave me his acoustic at age 8. "Dad" put it in the attic. 4 years later he brought it down cuz unc was coming for a visit for a week.
When he left he told my mom, 'He's a natural. Really good ear too'. "Dad" cut the strings off. I was 22 before I got a guitar in uni.
You're lucky AF dad only got upset about changing your strings mate.
@@ROOKTABULA fair play, that's just, well you know what it is and I feel for you, my old man loved the music and was to all intents and purposes a respected member of the community, he reintergrated physically and mentally disabled people back into the community after a full career teaching them prior to that. He was also lionised by every musician in our small town as the pinnacle to aspire to, he also mapped a way for that integration that was picked up and ran with by not only our council but county ( possibly country wide). When I grew up every woman within his sphere of age acted as if he was a Demi-god and he played and acted to it, when I was eleven one of them 16 years his junior took him away until I was 17 and it was me that found him. Of the 6 children that he had it was only me that remained communicating with him continuously. He was everything to everyone except the people that mattered, I held his hand as he died and told him that I truly loved him, which I did, but he was a shit to all that loved him and if he knew he did not care one jot. All dad's are dick's.
🫂❤️
Edit:- I don't discount myself in this, though I truly wish that I could, for shame 😔, does anyone ever learn🤔
Not all dads are dicks dude how can you say that? My father was a great guy, and I'm trying to be as much of a good father like he was. Sorry you had these experiences but not all fathers are like that!
Great practical tip! I learnt this way nearly 50 years ago when I first started playing and for me is the only way to secure the string to the post. I am convinced the popularity of locking tuners on electrics is partly due to players not knowing how to attach their strings correctly and thinking that their machine heads are at fault. Lol I am starting to sound and think like an old man🤣
Locking tuners to me are mainly an aid to speed up and simplify string changes, since you eliminate the need to do any wraps(the method in this video also works great with minimal wrapping). Thought I'd agree, many people have no clue how to do most of their basic guitar maintenance lol
There are slip-proof ways to do it that don't involve the knot.
This is without a doubt the best way to attach strings. I've been doing it this way for over 20 years, I just didn't know it was called the Luthier's knot.
What surprises me is that hardly anyone knows about this knot. I've even seen two luthiers simply put the string through the hole and tighten it.
So let's share this video.
This is the best video I have seen on winding strings, you really got the camera in close,, and showed us what we need to see1
I have been playing since since the Jurassic and Cretaceous Era. Before I learned the Luthiers knot I was homeless and lived with a pack of wolves. I enjoy the ease with which they can be removed and the removal of slippage which is the sole source of tuning issues.
Satire....😂
This knot used to be in a little flyer inside Addario strings back in the last century. It's easier to apply when you start off by turning the tuner post bt 90 degrees. Been doing this since 1981 and never had a string slip, nor be impossible to remove on the fly. It also translates well to the nylon string guitar as well as to nylon strings with wooden tuning pegs (where I actually DO line up the post hole with the string direction)
Just watched a video on things techs hate that customers do. This was number one.....
As a tech for 45 years,I can concur. No benefits, only hassles
@@bradsmith7311 Obviously not a very good tech.....
@donturnock5176 of course you can back that up right?.cause you in your infinite wisdom and Supreme over-arcing judgement can just see through the web and brush aside thousands of guitars and hundreds upon hundreds of satisfied customers to make this on high proclamation. Take a pass Don next time it occurs to you to chime in something you know so very little of.post script: I will never waste my time or anyone else's tying instrument strings into birds nests in a futile attempt to skip the critical steps of properly installing strings.and every time another guitar shows up with that mess I will curse the rubes who believe in f@#$ing the next guy with their inability to reason themselves out of someone else's delusios.
I always wind string around the post sbout 3 to 4 times, below the hole, then pass it through the hole over top of those windings and wind til its in tune....then wind it way over pitch, then back to just under pitch and bring it up til its in tune. Always works fine. If it goes flat in first week or so I take it a few wholesteps over pitch, then tune it properly to stretch the strings
Easy Peasy! Probably the BEST video here on UA-cam that I have seen on the luthiers knot by far!
Banjo Ben - I used this technique for years and I abandoned it as a bad job. Too many times, I tore bloody holes in my fingers trying to undo that "kink", particularly on the stiff B string (0.018 medium gauge). Same technique without the reverse bend holds very well and is far safer for the poor schnook (usually me) who has to take those strings off in a few weeks.
I hear you! I've been using the "Martin" knot for almost 40 years. As my eyes got worse, I discovered a solution. I leave 3/8ths inch of the string tag instead of clipping right next to the post. It's much easier to free the bend without donating/sacrificing blood.
Why not unwrap the knot from the other side? If you are using an acoustic loosen the string and remove the peg in the bridge then unwrap it from the long end. With an electric you cut the string and again unwrap it from the other end.
@@CDRaff that doesn't help, especially with the B string. It's folded over like a tight u-turn, and the string is rigid. There's barely enough string to grab, and usually ends up stabbing your finger tip. That's why I cut them off to a 3/8ths length after winding, so I can grab it with needle nose pliers. Even with that, you have to be careful to avoid scraping the tool, or the string end, against the peghead.
This knot prevents the string slipping either direction. You can't push it through with the long end until the fold is released.
@@JonNewquist I have been doing this well over 20 years, no it doesn't.
@@CDRaff I've been doing it for forty. Maybe your eyes are better than mine, maybe your pinch strength is stronger than mine. 😁
Guitar tech 40 years-no no no 'knots' can always be pulled tighter. This knot will continue to tighten over time leading to tuning issues. And have fun with a sharp tool such as an awl to get that knot undone on the high E and B strings. I hate when guitars come into my shop with this knot...takes twice as long to remove strings. Not for me...
Preach. One wind over the top and a few below is absolutely fine. And I don’t end up stabbing myself in the fingertip and wrestling with needle nose pliers every time I have to remove old strings.
Great explanation. Slight improvement would be less slack and fewer winds around the tuner post. Less slippage during the first tuning after the string change. I try to get 1 1/2 winds around, 3 or 4 is too many.
Is less wraps better than more? I always assumed more wraps meant more grip and more stable tuning
@@TheMyguitarisblue You are right that extra wraps do actually allow the string more chances to catch on itself, but that doesn't make it more stable. The problem is that those "catch" points very often slip as you increase string tension when tuning. If you hear occasional popping noises and a sudden pitch drop when tightening a string, that is usually the extra winds slipping through and consequentially the string looses a small amount of tension. Doesn't happen with minimal winds.
It's nit-picky for sure but it works better. :)
Yeah, I've only been changing strings for 50+ odd years, and this is the first time I've heard of this knot. I'm gonna get some new strings for my acoustic and try this. Thanks Ben!!
I'm not sure why in this video the guy uses so many winds, but it's really not necessary. The point of that "tie," is to decrease the number of winds so that the wind itself doesn't stretch on the key as you wind up. I generally pull the slack until you got slight tension. Then use the key to crimp the string of the desired length then use this tie. Gives you a good one, one half winds and you just need turn the tuning machine a few times.
Really good camera angles so we could see exactly what you were doing. Thanks for making this.
I've been using the old bend n' spin method for over 50 years with no problems with any aspect of my playing. This was a far more complex method, and I see no need to change the way I've been doing it for nearly half a century.
Same for me… 42 years 👍👍
Good but in addition I prefer that the first wrap Goes over the top of the knot.
I've been a guitar player for 53 years and even made a living at it for a couple... I've never seen that. So much simpler than the way I was taught.
Same here, 50+ years. This is a revelation. Should be the first thing taught to all new players in Guitar 101
Absolutely brilliant 👍
Been doing this since my guitar came back from the luthier strung that way. For no technical reason whatsoever, I just think it looks cool. So it's really between myself and my guitar headstock. Good explanation, and very well shot. 👏👏👏
I played for a living for many years and never dealt with using a knot when changing strings; it made things much easier when removing them and changing again, which I did at least once a week. The key is giving the strings a very good stretching after the new ones are put on. (this was on a 73 LP with non-locking machine heads). Again, the real key is in the stretching...my opinion.
I agree. Stretching the strings and a properly cut nut will keep your guitar in tune. I think the knot is useless.
yep stretching and also tuning the guitar in playing position is most important
The video clearly explained how to do this knot… but… This sort of knot is a pain in the ass to remove, and is not really needed if you know how to fold back properly.
I coil the string several times around the post before threading the eye with the string at the top of the coil. That knot technique makes removing the string difficult. It's better suited for nylon strings than steel IMO.
ever heard of clippers. lol
Just came across this . . . Good old UA-cam! Very simple but highly useful. No more slipping birdsnests for me! Thank you for positing AND for explaining it so well.
I learned this after buying my first "high-end" guitar... It's been a great asset for string life and tuning accuracy, now I service my 10 guitars, mostly acoustics, and use the Luthier's knot where a string goes through a post.
The knot can make changing strings very difficult and if strung properly no need.
Agreed....its a headache.
Amen! This is passing on ignorance at it's finest.
I've never used it yet
dfficult really? lol ever try clippers. omg they work soooo well.
Yup!
not a fan of this knot, in a lot of cases you end up having to cut the strings off the peg which is more opportunity for error. I'm fond of the 1 over 2 under method is plenty reliable and always easy to remove. Also, instead of guessing how much slack you need pinch the string at the nut and slide it back 1 fret for your 6th string and 1 1/2 fret for 1st threw 5th and you will see even results every time.
Absolutely 100% agree with you.
Well make your own video!
@@flintdavis2 🤣
Man sais 1 and 1l2 inches problem solved.
Dude what a help this was! All the top videos on changing banjo strings failed to properly explain this or show closeups... Kept kinking my strings! Thanks
I think that one of the problems most of us have, is that we don't get enough chance to practice resstringing. When we change strings we just want to get it done as quickly as possible.
I have made some notes, and saved this video so that i can try to do this next time.
It looks so proffessional
If you work in a guitar shop, then you willl get lots of chance to practice.
Every time I use this technique there is so much slip it’s ridiculous.
When I stick to the good ol’ “give one and a half or two around the peg” technique, I get minimal slip and it’s ready for play and stable in minutes.
You're doing it wrong.
good ol technique baddly explained lol
i've been playing guitar for 60 years, 40 of that semi-pro (~1500 gigs), and none of the bad things mentioned if you don't do this have ever happened to me. in addition, this method is a nightmare if you're playing solo and break a string. if you just run the string through with the post hole at 90° instead of straight, you put a kink that holds the string just fine, but releases easily if you need to change strings. it never slips, that's a bogus belief.
This.
Is right
It does, specially slippery Elixir's.
@@jaezryl i've used Elixirs on guitars occasionally, but always on my Swedish cittern. they never slip.
@@millsbobster I have never believed it till it happened to me. The E string keeps getting detuned. When I investigated, it turns out the wrap slips up. So I did this and the problem went away.
Here’s how.. DONT!!! One wrap over the top of the tail, the rest below, and they’ll never slip. All the knot does is make it harder to change the strings for the next guy
That's how I've done it for 20 years and have never had a string slip. I do know a lot of repair guys who use this knot, and Martin Guitar recommends it, so there must be something to it I suppose...but it seems to be a somewhat complicated solution, when easier methods suffice. I guess if it's the way you're comfortable, go for it.
I've gotta put me hand up mate, l restring the slot head this way, the post is thinner, but on the electrics & post tuners naa.
The way I’ve done it for years, never had any problems. The knot looks nice, but you can put a set of strings on and get them to stay in tune, by stretching your strings and tuning. Repeat the process until they stay in tune. No slippage and easy to change.
Why is it harder to change the string? Don't you cut the string at the post and unwind it off?
@@jasonw4053 Martin recommends it because a guy like this got a job there and made it Martin's word. Just because a high-end brand does it one way doesn't make it gospel. Many high-end brands do it different ways. I don't wrap my strings this way and I've never had any problems with slipping or anything, and locking tuners just makes this method completely obsolete. There's really no excuse not to use them now unless you're dead-set on not modifying the guitar for whatever reason, or if it's not using standard guitar tuners, so like a classical. You can get a set of good locking tuners for less than a pickup upgrade and if you source them properly all you need to install them is a wrench and screwdriver. If you source them improperly and get ones that don't fit all you need is a power drill and some confidence, otherwise I'm sure you can find a luthier to do it for a reasonable price.
Easily the most clear video on this I’ve found, good job and thanks!
This is a big source of contention for players. People either seem to love or hate it. No middle ground.
I, personally, think that the Luthier’s Knot is more trouble than of benefit (stringing and de-stringing).
Quick test :
Take 2 guitars that are very same.
String one with the knot, string the other by just winding the strings.
Then play both a song on each guitar like you would during a gig.
Retune and put them on a stand.
Pick them the day after and see which one is out of tune and by how much.
Any problems of wood/hardware put aside, strings winded with the knot will be almost dead stable right away and will very slightly move during overnight (and in my experience, they spend the night in a guitar vault, in a semi-truck trailer)
Should be called the anti-luthier’s knot- no luthier I know uses it, and it’s a very effective way to tick your luthier right off if you need to have work done on your guitars. And for anyone who says that Taylor in their camp, D’Addario is in mine. 😁
I hate to break it to y’all, but the luthier’s knot is utterly useless. It doesn’t hold your strings in place and only serves to be a pain in the ass when you go to change the strings. The luthier’s knot is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves that people do.
Never seen a need for this unless it is a straight post. This method was meant to be used on the old straight posts that are shaped to pinch the string in place with pressure. This method tends to cause a longer period before you have tuning stability too because of the excess string on there that needs to stretch out. Great method for straight posts but unnecessary for tuners like on that guitar.
One of the most valuable videos on UA-cam. Finally my Gibson holds tuning ❤️
Excellent Ben..... like you said most of us understand the Bridge/ pin part. Thank you for a clear explanation. You’re a pro👍 Best to you.